If you're a talented musician or band with a fair amount of business knowledge... Avoid signing to a major label like the plague. For 2 years, I performed with one of the biggest artists of the late 2000s. I recall them voicing just how little they were making from sales. Mere pennies on the dollar. Luckily, I was paid (set contract) as a hired musician and walked away with enough to build my dream home and leave the constant hustle behind. It's no wonder why so many major artists wind up as addicts, broke, extremely depressed, 6 feet under or all of the above. Record labels demand the world from them, suck them dry, then leave them for dead when their profitability starts to decline slightly.
@MW-dd8vk Indie labels used to be a decent vehicle for distribution purposes (CDs, vinyl, tapes) but now that the vast majority of access is online, their main use is reduced to recording assistance and possible touring support. Synonymously, Indie artists have suffered greatly but continue to be the primary source of quality, ground-breaking music. Though I think Indie labels will eventually disappear... Indie artists will once again be in the spotlight for avid music lovers. The current crop of over-produced corporate music is wearing thin on the general public, so look for a lot of new, innovative (self produced) artists to start buzzing again very soon.
Totally agree. In the early 90s I used to work all Saturday and then take my money and just about buy 1 single chart CD album. Now that album could be bought for a few minutes pay for the same type of work. The recorded Music industry is just a blip in the history of man, but live music itself and artists will always be here.
Yeah, music has been made very cheap for consumers. I remember I'd listen to an album over and over and over and each time I'd hear something different. These days consumers listen to a tune for a minute or two and it gets tossed to one side. The ironic thing is, people are wondering why they don't see many live musicians anymore and why music literacy is in decline.
@@crowningglory6654 nope live music is still here. AI voices are still not replacing artist. I use synthv vocals for my music. one thing for sure AI vocals means I never have step foot in recording studio to record vocals and get professional results. For guitar all need is interface so my room needs no audio treatment. I can make rock songs on the cheap.
Birth rates are declining. Gen z and gen alpha are smaller than millennials. Stores, clubs, bars restaurants… want to cater to the biggest demographic possible so they play music millennials grew up on
Great video and awesome presentation of facts. The problem with the mainstream music industry is it is ran by a lot of egos who know nothing, making their living off the talent of the ignorant who want to be famous instead of PAID. People who will argue with the content of this video are only protecting their interests. Human nature wants to FEEL right instead of seeing the ugly truth for what it is, because the truth forucds us to work harder and take full responsibility for our actions, all of which is not popular and hated within the common psyche. I'm saying this as a person who started in the biz at 13, worked at many major labels, manages several artists, and left many gigs because the companies tried to use me to screw other artists, especially when they artists are Black, whom are scene as easy to exploit, which I cannot deny is true. BUT YOOOOOO! Who edits these videos? They are fire! Great job.
I blame the consumer. If a guy keeps going to the same restaurant even if they don't like the food, I would have to blame the guy over the restaurant. The internet has more choices than the Hot 100.
I bought the indie courses a couple years back and it honestly changed my life, but this video is a whole other level of value thank you man absolutely incredible
Just another example, we fund games and gaming services (servers), streaming services (online radio and suscription based ones) and more just to create demand, i remember we receive 1000 dollars in traffic per month per every 100 invested in content, that was in 2009 and the market size now is way bigger. In 2015 i retired from this, now im working alone others to invest in areas that create value in other areas, food production is one. I suggest to everyone to open up to integrate marketing in their careers to improve income so they can work on what they love. I also love music and i think we all need to take advantage of this tech and be smart, we can create our own business model. Don't give up.
I agree with you that the labels and big companies have not really been profiting and they might be going to zero but they were never the music industry in the first place The music industry was always with the artists going on tours and in 2023 the top 100 tours are up 46% in profit from the previous year The labels might be going away but the thing that always been an artist on the road will always remain
Dude. You are so amazing. You are making the world of finances seem so fascinating to me...a topic which i HATED and never wanted to know about (even though i knew i needed ). This goes beyond the music industry for me. Your videos are making me crave to learn more and see what I can do to start investing and build past businesses back to legit statuses again
IP isn't really the issue, its the cut the major labels take from streaming revenue. They take 70% of what Spotify makes....of course though Spotify is complicit and uses that as an excuse not to pay smaller artists fairly.
These days every small music venue with live music is booking acts that belong on much larger stages and tours. Small acts are poushed aside so a national level artist can make that $200.00.
wow, that was so well done. i never thought of the business model as trying to extract value from intellectual property and how wildly inefficient that is. thanks for the lessons
This channel is a breath of fresh air for music industry coverage. Such a grounded representation of the realities behind it. Genuinely appreciate your content.
After almost everyone on this post has been getting and listening to music for free since the net took off, now you are giving me some inside knowledge on why the industry suffers. People EXPECT to get music for free. Musicians and producers suffer mainly because the public does not respect music any more. It’s one of the only industries where people now expect to get it for free, in fact people act like they are doing artist a favor for streaming their music. Couple that with all the streaming services greed and unwillingness to pay a fair fee, what do you expect? Music at one time was called the recession proof business. Even when other businesses suffered music strived. The public is complicit in the suffering of artist. Then you got these artist that are mad because they never popped off, and they are painting the industry as evil. Well most industries have evil in them. The telecommunications industry, sports, modeling, finance, the so called law, and every other industry has evil embedded in it. So folks are tired of the music industry, but somehow are happy with crooked cops shooting folks running in the opposite direction. Music business has its problems but so does every other industry in America and the world. Anybody want to challenge me, list the perfect industries here? Even in our food they are feeding us genetically modified food that can destroy our health. Truth is, music did a lot of good for this world. Our mothers and fathers played their favorite songs while we were young and created memories that cannot be replaced. Sorry I wish everybody get the F off of the music business, especially since most people have gotten their music for free in the last several decades. Why complain about something you are getting for free and you don’t have to listen to.
@@musicmarketing I didn’t look for you. I didn’t ask you to read anything. Sorry if you are offended by something I said, obviously something motivated you to post a comment.
@@amptrascope I agree they should create some copyright data that blocks every illegal music downloads and/or already illegally downloaded music on any electronics there is so people could buy music and socialize at concerts
@@amptrascopePeople should stop expecting music for free because if it's done by professionals with professional musicians, the least to do is pay for it.
@@vanyabaray3621 It'll be hard to change 25 years of people not paying for music. Like I'd guess almost all 20 year olds today probably never bought a single album. How are you going to get them to go out and buy music now? The laws would have to change and the technology as well. Even still it would be tough.
So glad I found this video! Completely agree with you! Curious to know what you think about the direct to fan model that everyone seems to be trying out now.
Love your Music Industry videos!!! Definitely more artist and creative professionals need to hear this and take the jump to DAOs and independent community building 🙌🏾
what if you don't want to save it? What if you want it all to fall? What if you're tired of how the whole entire system works? Accelerationism is the way! Web 3 can stay in its nonexistent state in which everyone looks down on any blockchain or NFT. I have no interest in supporting any system that slaps rules and copyrights on me. This is why I like video games and video game music, because you can use that stuff within your videos either as background music or to talk about. If you tried that with licensed music, you'd be screwed. The fact that you can't even critique an album without getting hit with a copyright is telling.
Hey Kyle, When I get paid this week I'm going to sign up with you all. I'm a rock, grunge, metal, acoustic guy. I'm solo. I write my own music. I toured in the 90s, taught at 4 music stores. I really need your help. I rent a space in a Plaza. I have 2 computer setups with monitors. I rent and own over 1400 top-notch plugins. I also have very good video editing software. About 3 programs. I'm a Christian and write regular songs. Just positive lyrics about really bad things. I won't go into it here. I hope I can talk to you personally. I 100% agree with this and basically all ur videos. I'm ready to put the work in. Talk to you soon. ✌️
Hello there, this is the third video I saw from you and I thoroughly enjoyed "Music industry is literally a scam". That was very good summary of bad things that can happen to you when pursuing a musical career. However, this video contains certain suggestions, and some of them I like to address. Firstly, the music industry is shrinking, so it will be zero - that is a wild assumption. It's shrinking, but it doesn't mean it have to keep shrinking. It can slow down, or stop completely, since nobody knows the future. And from what I observe, companies like SoundCloud, Spotify, and apple and many more are fighting more and more for the options to pay fair share to creators. So if this trend continues, within 10-15 years, there could be an efficiency level that would allow just about anyone to make a living just by sitting home and creating art - and connecting some dots on the internet. But that's a wild assumption as well, as I said, nobody knows the future. Ok, so let me try to put it another way. In the movie "Straight Outta Compton", watch closely on the relationship between Easy-E and his manager. From his view, he took a lot of money from him, and let him down. But from the broader perspective, all this success wouldn't even happen if it wasn't for him. I mean, the only other choice was a criminal gang that did more damage than good in the end. So if you look at it from a proper perspective, if I pay for your tour or recording session, it doesn't really make me your partner. It makes me an investor, and every investor thinks of dividends in the future, that's the whole reason for doing it in the first place. So in Easy-E case, his manager had a lots of expenses that he couldn't explain properly, but it doesn't mean he didn't do his job. It also means that he deserves some reward for all his efforts, right? So, yes, the music industry will rip you off, but a job they do needs to be paid, right? I mean, we had radios, records, then CD's, and DVD's, and now digital files. That's a lots of work that someone has done so the general public can enjoy the art. Which brings me to a second reservation, and that is making an intellectual property a law. If this was a necessary step for creating all this web of art distribution, then I don't even wonder why they didn't hesitate to go this way. It was a necessary step at a time, so I think it's only justified. So, as I said, all that is a lots of work and artists, or anyone, can't expect to do all that for free and simply hand out any profit to the artist or creator. That's just not realistic, in my view. On the bright side, the effectivity of financial systems and internet distribution is increasing by every year, so some positive development is possible. Keep up good work, see you later.
I think if we’re keeping all the laws as they are, and trying to commodify ideas the same way we commodify something like housing, maybe there’s something to the whole NFT’s giving “realistic” traits to ideas. (Until someone like Blackrock buys all the ideas and rents them back to us lol) However, at the end of the day, I can still copy a music file in a way that I can’t copy something like a gold brick. So in order to give ideas the same properties as physical things, it feels to me like you’d also have to alter the rules of how “Ctrl+C” & “Ctrl+V” work too. Which in my opinion, is a step away from freedom, not toward it.
100% again on everything you said! ...as if I'm not 100 on any other of Circa's videos ... 😂 the same is with the whole of entertainment - tickets sold vs gross revenue vs actuall VALUE of that money. It's all goin' dooooooown! Hollywood is loosing money, record lables are loosing revenue and more and artists are free from that slavery and be independent and profitable... But this is all a good thing! We'll probably get much more quality of content in the future over the quantity of "trendy" stuff right now.
True TLDR: If you can digitize the productive output of an idea, you can not prevent it from going to ZERO... It will eventually lose all monetary capability.
The music industry cannot strive or survive without songs. Stop giving them your songs. Determine what your song or songs are worth and sell them to them period. That way you don't get taken advantage of.
Deng! A lot to think about with this one Circ! But I do appreciate you making these vids that highlight some of the uncomfortable facts and realities that artists are faced with! Thank you!🫡🙏🏻🧼
The only reason why the music industry looked like it was getting bigger was the classic rock industry. Queen sold their catalogue for 1 billion. Without this, yes your right. Music is worth zero. And it gets worse - music tech stops being developed
I sure hope so! IP, copyright has always struck me as total bs and I do hope it crashes. I had a fun conversation with SOCAN some years ago. In order for me to step out on a sidewalk and play MY songs, I need to pay SOCAN a license to do so. But here's the kicker: because I'm not charging at least $6 for the entry to my performance I'm not entitled to any royalties. I told them I would not register any songs with them and they responded that I would need a license anyway 'in case' I played a song that might be registered. It's like a mafia shakedown: pay for our protection or suffer the consequences.
It's a very interesting conversation. More power to the content creator rather than the broker. This made me think of the rise of AI in Music especially these singing deepfakes lol
Starting with rap..... that genre is finally coming to an end due to the constant negative messaging. Thiers no progress, perfect example the no talent supposed "sexy red" no skills and dirty. And none of the male rappers are unique... same message no progress
Love how Bob screwed them he's also aware of the year by year diminishing sales numbers as less people care or listen to his music so that 16mil gets worse with time 👊🤛 good job Bob you stuck to the man
The music industry is a perfect example of an unregulated market leading to a falling rate of profit, which will eventually go to 0, just like Marx talked about over 100+ years ago. Your analysis on this video is great but I don't agree that the solution is to hyper-capitalize art even further. What will happen is just a transfer of wealth to different individuals and institutions who will inevitably try to do the same thing as major labels/DSPs are right now.
@@musicmarketing well, hate to break it to you but being against IP laws/copyright is actually a leftist position comrade 🤟 either way, I'm glad more people are acknowledging that IP laws don't protect indie artists. We can work together on a solution once awareness has been increased.
@@Faradaymusic also, IP is a government regulation and mandate, so its hard to imagine IP abolitionism being leftist as it calls for a complete lack of regulation
Well that's the thing, Leftism and American Libertarianism both share a desire for personal liberty within society, albeit with different methods of reaching the "end goal". I think removing IP laws on music enables more personal liberty, so in that sense our ideas are aligned.
@0:06 Nope They did not surpass That's just called inflation, it means money is worth less and so, more amounts of it is needed to represent something In 1999 money was worth more
I know my opinion may not matter at all, but I’ve always wanted to make a concert on the Blockchain after the NFT bull, but also seeing how it could be translated into artists and finding your first 1000 fans, and allowing to grow with you just an idea 10:18
Curious to hear your thoughts on this video in 2024, factoring in the rise of AI, plus how many creative fields right now seem to be struggling (not just music).
There are some good points here but I disagree that Intellectual Property rights are worth nothing. If that were true then you wouldn’t earn money from from performances if your songs, from sync rights or even from merchandising because others could gain the buzz from performing all your music maybe better than you and selling t shirts off the back of it. IP may not be as lucrative but it stops others from exploiting your music.
I would disagree that it stops others from exploiting your music - it merely gives you an opportunity to penalize others for exploiting your music. Your ability to penalize others for doing so is directly corollary to your resources - meaning, the more resources you have, the more you can chase others down OR, and this is important, become effectively IMMUNE from being chased down. The publishers and record labels of the world have far more resources than the average individual when it comes to enforcing their intellectual property rights. And, they have far more resources than the average individual when it comes to defending themselves from intellectual property right enforcement. Through this power, they have accumulated licensure to the entire history of recorded music. Major music industry conglomerates are a black hole for IP just like Samsung and Apple are for patent rights. You cannot look at the intention of a policy when gauging its effectiveness - you have to look at the result. What has been the result?
It may be only a deterrent but it’s still an effective one. Who would want to rip off a song, gain success and then be exposed as a cheat never mind the financial cost?
@@colintylermusic1 further; despite the existence of an established copyright regime in the states, there are more than enough examples to show that this dynamic has been muted by IP
This is a compelling video. Before I get into opinion on it however, I'll say that the background, synthesized "music" in the background (crap created on an electronic keyboard), detracts from his message. About intellectual property, anyone who has labored to write music, write a book, design a circuit, will understand that labor is at the heart of this issue. For some of you who confuse the entertainment quality of music, to indicate that artists are "just having fun" , you're mistaken. Work is involved. And, work should be compensated. (Do you work for free?) Intellectual property rights (copyright, patent) make complete sense. Just because technology has enabled listeners to steal another persons' work, doesn't invalidate that the artists' work should belong to them, AKA, property. The reason that he's saying this is that he's from the generation that confused being able to get something for free, with the moral right to do such a thing. AKA: Grown up, spoiled child, entitled. The problem doesn't lie with intellectual works being regarded as property. The problem lies with the entitlement and associated rationalizations that people use to steal other people's intellectual creations: I can do it, therefore it's right. Its a moral problem, not a legal problem. The technical description that he presents may actually work to get people to pay for intellectual works. The concepts, economically, about inflation and the worth of Bob Dylan's catalog are interesting, and worth pondering (I've never bought a Dylan album and wonder why other people would want to listen to that.) Anyway, it's an interesting video, and worth a fact check.
@@musicmarketing That seems to be a modern mantra. You ask for opinions and when someone actually gives you a complete one..... well I'm only interested if it's an ADD style comment.
If you remove intellectual property rights from the picture, and you only use a musician's music as a means to garner attention to then monetize this attention by selling products, wouldn't this musician be at a major disadvantage to regular content creators who use this same business model? It takes a lot of investment to consistently produce music, either in the time to develop the craft and skill or the money to invest in production, a lot more investment then to simply whip out a camera and shoot content. Not to mention that on top of making the music, musicians nowadays have to also shoot content to promote it. Why do all of that when the end goal is to sell products? Why not just make content then.
I think the argument would be that musicians ARE just content creators, with music being the type of content we create rather than the "product" and like you say, if we want to get anyone to hear the music we have to pair it with video content these days. I assume you are making the distinction between musicians and content creators who make videos about something besides music and yeah, maybe in some cases they have an easier time, assuming whatever their area of expertise is actually requires less knowledge or time than making music. But more importantly, I don't think anyone is arguing that wanting to profit from selling products is WHY we make music in the first place: We make music because its our art and its the kind of content we want to create. But then if we also want to somehow make money from it, yeah we need to sell products (also concert tickets are a product unique to musicians) or get endorsement deals or whatever just like any other content creator.
Side issue: Two big problems for Spotify: first, paying rights owners is not the issue, it's their refusal to increase subscription prices despite galloping inflation. From apples to airlines - every business has to kick up prices every few years. Neither Spotify nor the other streamers are doing this. So the size/value of the pie to be shared is shrinking in real terms (the same goes for physical sales, by the way).The other problem is the totally insane prices they have been paying for celebrity podcast talk shows that are not paying off by any measure. Yikes! Tech boom 2005 revisited. They should have kept that money and used it as a cushion to secure a rise in subscription rates that would have been followed by the others. Win-win. These are old-school business management issues. Having said that, IP is indeed in a very bad place if you look at the broader picture.
But the celebrity podcasts are paying off. For every hour in a month that a Spotify user has to listen to audio on the app, Spotify will have to pay a certain cost. That cost is directly related to the amount of music that a user streams during each hour. If you fill up more of those hours with royalty-free podcasts, you effectively reduce the average cost of goods sold for every user. This is one of Spotify's main strategies for flipping profitable - fill up your subscription month with podcast listening instead of music listening.
Hard to raise prices on something that can be gotten for free somewhere else. Raise prices -> lose customers -> revenue back to what it was before but with less users. Less users would mean less song plays, and less money paid out for those song plays, could help the bottom line - _maybe._
@@DynamicUnreal Of course, people have to understand the value. otherwise, the whole thing will die anyway. But I suspect that if they up prices, others will happily follow ;-)
Do you think they’re maybe buying these catalogs because in the long term they’ll be treated like fine art? The original Mona Lisa paintings or what not? People love to sample, or old music could be used in 2070 about back in the 2000s when things were so different once we have like zero original creativity cause of AI ?? Maybe original music will become a delicacy?? I can’t think of any reasons why they’re making these decisions with an unworthy Return of investment. Unless they plan to do biopics of these people & license the catalogues or something
to stop focusing on getting revenue from music-based intellectual property instead, use music to build a personal brand and then monetize the personal brand through merchandise, live events, digital products, and services
@musicmarketing You hit the nail right on the head in this video. I grew up listening & seeing people buy albums in the 80's & 90's. A way of looking at what you were saying in this video is you can have a million dollars in pennies or a million in platinum. If you asked the average person which is worth more most people would say they're both worth the same. Wrong!!!! The platinum is worth the most because it has a non corrosion factor while copper pennies have the corrosion factor from time. Also artist & music much like those pennies don't have the shelf life of 80's & 90's music & artist did. If you remember an artist going double platinum was a thing. Being double platinum now is rated in likes, streams, and views as of now. It's quicker to become a big name however the shelf life and quality have lessened. Your observation was on point & mature so although this video didn't get a million views I rate it platinum. 👍👌
Let's look at this logically if the price of goods have gone up by 200-300% in the past 4 years that would put the actual yearly inflation at 50% each year in reality 4yrs x 50% = 200% we have double digit inflation there just lying about the truth of the situation
If you're a talented musician or band with a fair amount of business knowledge...
Avoid signing to a major label like the plague.
For 2 years, I performed with one of the biggest artists of the late 2000s.
I recall them voicing just how little they were making from sales.
Mere pennies on the dollar.
Luckily, I was paid (set contract) as a hired musician and walked away with enough to build my dream home and leave the constant hustle behind.
It's no wonder why so many major artists wind up as addicts, broke, extremely depressed, 6 feet under or all of the above.
Record labels demand the world from them, suck them dry, then leave them for dead when their profitability starts to decline slightly.
Prince was right
Stay Underground. You get to make your own Decisions.
@@gfanarakos Lars was also right
In your experience with the industry how do indie labels and independent artists compare.
@MW-dd8vk
Indie labels used to be a decent vehicle for distribution purposes (CDs, vinyl, tapes) but now that the vast majority of access is online, their main use is reduced to recording assistance and possible touring support.
Synonymously, Indie artists have suffered greatly but continue to be the primary source of quality, ground-breaking music.
Though I think Indie labels will eventually disappear... Indie artists will once again be in the spotlight for avid music lovers.
The current crop of over-produced corporate music is wearing thin on the general public, so look for a lot of new, innovative (self produced) artists to start buzzing again very soon.
Totally agree. In the early 90s I used to work all Saturday and then take my money and just about buy 1 single chart CD album. Now that album could be bought for a few minutes pay for the same type of work. The recorded Music industry is just a blip in the history of man, but live music itself and artists will always be here.
Not with AI creating music & replicating voices so well now
ruclips.net/video/Jin4jkONQdk/видео.htmlsi=ORa3IYa_WjcIfzWK
Yeah, music has been made very cheap for consumers. I remember I'd listen to an album over and over and over and each time I'd hear something different. These days consumers listen to a tune for a minute or two and it gets tossed to one side. The ironic thing is, people are wondering why they don't see many live musicians anymore and why music literacy is in decline.
@@crowningglory6654 nope live music is still here. AI voices are still not replacing artist. I use synthv vocals for my music. one thing for sure AI vocals means I never have step foot in recording studio to record vocals and get professional results. For guitar all need is interface so my room needs no audio treatment. I can make rock songs on the cheap.
With venues dying? no
Everywhere I go these days I just hear old tunes being played. I don’t remember the last time I heard a great new song.
Birth rates are declining. Gen z and gen alpha are smaller than millennials. Stores, clubs, bars restaurants… want to cater to the biggest demographic possible so they play music millennials grew up on
@@generalzod530 No we just have crap now
The greatest time was when Korn was on the radio all the time. At least on the rock radio.
Great video and awesome presentation of facts.
The problem with the mainstream music industry is it is ran by a lot of egos who know nothing, making their living off the talent of the ignorant who want to be famous instead of PAID.
People who will argue with the content of this video are only protecting their interests. Human nature wants to FEEL right instead of seeing the ugly truth for what it is, because the truth forucds us to work harder and take full responsibility for our actions, all of which is not popular and hated within the common psyche.
I'm saying this as a person who started in the biz at 13, worked at many major labels, manages several artists, and left many gigs because the companies tried to use me to screw other artists, especially when they artists are Black, whom are scene as easy to exploit, which I cannot deny is true.
BUT YOOOOOO! Who edits these videos? They are fire! Great job.
The editor is fantastic - Michael Kessler
I blame the consumer. If a guy keeps going to the same restaurant even if they don't like the food, I would have to blame the guy over the restaurant. The internet has more choices than the Hot 100.
I bought the indie courses a couple years back and it honestly changed my life, but this video is a whole other level of value thank you man absolutely incredible
Just another example, we fund games and gaming services (servers), streaming services (online radio and suscription based ones) and more just to create demand, i remember we receive 1000 dollars in traffic per month per every 100 invested in content, that was in 2009 and the market size now is way bigger. In 2015 i retired from this, now im working alone others to invest in areas that create value in other areas, food production is one. I suggest to everyone to open up to integrate marketing in their careers to improve income so they can work on what they love. I also love music and i think we all need to take advantage of this tech and be smart, we can create our own business model. Don't give up.
I agree with you that the labels and big companies have not really been profiting and they might be going to zero but they were never the music industry in the first place The music industry was always with the artists going on tours and in 2023 the top 100 tours are up 46% in profit from the previous year The labels might be going away but the thing that always been an artist on the road will always remain
Dude. You are so amazing. You are making the world of finances seem so fascinating to me...a topic which i HATED and never wanted to know about (even though i knew i needed ). This goes beyond the music industry for me. Your videos are making me crave to learn more and see what I can do to start investing and build past businesses back to legit statuses again
IP isn't really the issue, its the cut the major labels take from streaming revenue. They take 70% of what Spotify makes....of course though Spotify is complicit and uses that as an excuse not to pay smaller artists fairly.
yeah people dont really realize spotify doesnt make money & cant really pay more running on that house of cards business model.
These days every small music venue with live music is booking acts that belong on much larger stages and tours. Small acts are poushed aside so a national level artist can make that $200.00.
wow, that was so well done. i never thought of the business model as trying to extract value from intellectual property and how wildly inefficient that is. thanks for the lessons
This channel is a breath of fresh air for music industry coverage. Such a grounded representation of the realities behind it. Genuinely appreciate your content.
One thing to note about M2 money supply is that it does NOT account for the amount of debt created.
After almost everyone on this post has been getting and listening to music for free since the net took off, now you are giving me some inside knowledge on why the industry suffers. People EXPECT to get music for free. Musicians and producers suffer mainly because the public does not respect music any more. It’s one of the only industries where people now expect to get it for free, in fact people act like they are doing artist a favor for streaming their music. Couple that with all the streaming services greed and unwillingness to pay a fair fee, what do you expect? Music at one time was called the recession proof business. Even when other businesses suffered music strived. The public is complicit in the suffering of artist. Then you got these artist that are mad because they never popped off, and they are painting the industry as evil. Well most industries have evil in them. The telecommunications industry, sports, modeling, finance, the so called law, and every other industry has evil embedded in it. So folks are tired of the music industry, but somehow are happy with crooked cops shooting folks running in the opposite direction. Music business has its problems but so does every other industry in America and the world. Anybody want to challenge me, list the perfect industries here? Even in our food they are feeding us genetically modified food that can destroy our health. Truth is, music did a lot of good for this world. Our mothers and fathers played their favorite songs while we were young and created memories that cannot be replaced. Sorry I wish everybody get the F off of the music business, especially since most people have gotten their music for free in the last several decades. Why complain about something you are getting for free and you don’t have to listen to.
I aint reading all that.
I'm happy for u tho.
or sorry that happened.
@@musicmarketing I didn’t look for you. I didn’t ask you to read anything. Sorry if you are offended by something I said, obviously something motivated you to post a comment.
@@amptrascope I agree they should create some copyright data that blocks every illegal music downloads and/or already illegally downloaded music on any electronics there is so people could buy music and socialize at concerts
@@amptrascopePeople should stop expecting music for free because if it's done by professionals with professional musicians, the least to do is pay for it.
@@vanyabaray3621 It'll be hard to change 25 years of people not paying for music. Like I'd guess almost all 20 year olds today probably never bought a single album. How are you going to get them to go out and buy music now? The laws would have to change and the technology as well. Even still it would be tough.
So glad I found this video! Completely agree with you! Curious to know what you think about the direct to fan model that everyone seems to be trying out now.
i'm like "should i download this vid cos its gonna be taken down cos those truths are so inconvenient"
🤣
I forgot to tell that i did run an internet service for 20 years and deal with all this personally. Cheers.
Love your Music Industry videos!!! Definitely more artist and creative professionals need to hear this and take the jump to DAOs and independent community building 🙌🏾
Hells yes - will be interesting to see how DAOs evolve and potentially play into music industry dynamics
what if you don't want to save it? What if you want it all to fall? What if you're tired of how the whole entire system works? Accelerationism is the way! Web 3 can stay in its nonexistent state in which everyone looks down on any blockchain or NFT.
I have no interest in supporting any system that slaps rules and copyrights on me. This is why I like video games and video game music, because you can use that stuff within your videos either as background music or to talk about. If you tried that with licensed music, you'd be screwed. The fact that you can't even critique an album without getting hit with a copyright is telling.
Hey Kyle,
When I get paid this week I'm going to sign up with you all. I'm a rock, grunge, metal, acoustic guy. I'm solo. I write my own music. I toured in the 90s, taught at 4 music stores.
I really need your help.
I rent a space in a Plaza. I have 2 computer setups with monitors. I rent and own over 1400 top-notch plugins. I also have very good video editing software. About 3 programs.
I'm a Christian and write regular songs.
Just positive lyrics about really bad things.
I won't go into it here. I hope I can talk to you personally. I 100% agree with this and basically all ur videos. I'm ready to put the work in. Talk to you soon. ✌️
Great decision!
Hello there, this is the third video I saw from you and I thoroughly enjoyed "Music industry is literally a scam". That was very good summary of bad things that can happen to you when pursuing a musical career. However, this video contains certain suggestions, and some of them I like to address. Firstly, the music industry is shrinking, so it will be zero - that is a wild assumption. It's shrinking, but it doesn't mean it have to keep shrinking. It can slow down, or stop completely, since nobody knows the future. And from what I observe, companies like SoundCloud, Spotify, and apple and many more are fighting more and more for the options to pay fair share to creators. So if this trend continues, within 10-15 years, there could be an efficiency level that would allow just about anyone to make a living just by sitting home and creating art - and connecting some dots on the internet. But that's a wild assumption as well, as I said, nobody knows the future.
Ok, so let me try to put it another way. In the movie "Straight Outta Compton", watch closely on the relationship between Easy-E and his manager. From his view, he took a lot of money from him, and let him down. But from the broader perspective, all this success wouldn't even happen if it wasn't for him. I mean, the only other choice was a criminal gang that did more damage than good in the end. So if you look at it from a proper perspective, if I pay for your tour or recording session, it doesn't really make me your partner. It makes me an investor, and every investor thinks of dividends in the future, that's the whole reason for doing it in the first place. So in Easy-E case, his manager had a lots of expenses that he couldn't explain properly, but it doesn't mean he didn't do his job. It also means that he deserves some reward for all his efforts, right? So, yes, the music industry will rip you off, but a job they do needs to be paid, right?
I mean, we had radios, records, then CD's, and DVD's, and now digital files. That's a lots of work that someone has done so the general public can enjoy the art. Which brings me to a second reservation, and that is making an intellectual property a law. If this was a necessary step for creating all this web of art distribution, then I don't even wonder why they didn't hesitate to go this way. It was a necessary step at a time, so I think it's only justified. So, as I said, all that is a lots of work and artists, or anyone, can't expect to do all that for free and simply hand out any profit to the artist or creator. That's just not realistic, in my view. On the bright side, the effectivity of financial systems and internet distribution is increasing by every year, so some positive development is possible.
Keep up good work, see you later.
I think if we’re keeping all the laws as they are, and trying to commodify ideas the same way we commodify something like housing, maybe there’s something to the whole NFT’s giving “realistic” traits to ideas.
(Until someone like Blackrock buys all the ideas and rents them back to us lol)
However, at the end of the day, I can still copy a music file in a way that I can’t copy something like a gold brick.
So in order to give ideas the same properties as physical things, it feels to me like you’d also have to alter the rules of how “Ctrl+C” & “Ctrl+V” work too. Which in my opinion, is a step away from freedom, not toward it.
"anything the ear can hear and the eye can see, the sensor can record"
@@musicmarketing I record your video and you can do no shet to me...
@@insomnyincuby9293 yes, that is correct
Very good insight; fair and reasonable assesment!
Keep up the good work!
100% again on everything you said! ...as if I'm not 100 on any other of Circa's videos ... 😂 the same is with the whole of entertainment - tickets sold vs gross revenue vs actuall VALUE of that money. It's all goin' dooooooown! Hollywood is loosing money, record lables are loosing revenue and more and artists are free from that slavery and be independent and profitable...
But this is all a good thing! We'll probably get much more quality of content in the future over the quantity of "trendy" stuff right now.
I’d love your video editor details
This is the exact video I was looking for, thank you homie
So intelligent and insightful. Thank you.
True TLDR: If you can digitize the productive output of an idea, you can not prevent it from going to ZERO... It will eventually lose all monetary capability.
The music industry cannot strive or survive without songs. Stop giving them your songs. Determine what your song or songs are worth and sell them to them period. That way you don't get taken advantage of.
Yeah, sell songs rather than going for a point system.
Love the shirt bro!!!! Good information too I guess 😜
Deng! A lot to think about with this one Circ! But I do appreciate you making these vids that highlight some of the uncomfortable facts and realities that artists are faced with! Thank you!🫡🙏🏻🧼
The only reason why the music industry looked like it was getting bigger was the classic rock industry. Queen sold their catalogue for 1 billion. Without this, yes your right. Music is worth zero. And it gets worse - music tech stops being developed
Great video Circa!
I like your brain, Circa. Thank you!
The rules for what goes into the M2 changed at the same time of the massive increase, which explains a large part of the increase.
DAMN! Awesome insight Kyle.
Circa you are the GOAT! These videos are amazing!
thanks so much JC!
@@musicmarketing I gotta thank you as a collective for continuing to inspire and educate. Forever grateful for you all! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I sure hope so! IP, copyright has always struck me as total bs and I do hope it crashes. I had a fun conversation with SOCAN some years ago. In order for me to step out on a sidewalk and play MY songs, I need to pay SOCAN a license to do so. But here's the kicker: because I'm not charging at least $6 for the entry to my performance I'm not entitled to any royalties. I told them I would not register any songs with them and they responded that I would need a license anyway 'in case' I played a song that might be registered. It's like a mafia shakedown: pay for our protection or suffer the consequences.
such bullshit dude
It's a very interesting conversation. More power to the content creator rather than the broker. This made me think of the rise of AI in Music especially these singing deepfakes lol
Amazing execution of very interesting reporting:)
Starting with rap..... that genre is finally coming to an end due to the constant negative messaging. Thiers no progress, perfect example the no talent supposed "sexy red" no skills and dirty. And none of the male rappers are unique... same message no progress
Fascinating video! BRAVO!
Love how Bob screwed them he's also aware of the year by year diminishing sales numbers as less people care or listen to his music so that 16mil gets worse with time 👊🤛 good job Bob you stuck to the man
The music industry is a perfect example of an unregulated market leading to a falling rate of profit, which will eventually go to 0, just like Marx talked about over 100+ years ago. Your analysis on this video is great but I don't agree that the solution is to hyper-capitalize art even further. What will happen is just a transfer of wealth to different individuals and institutions who will inevitably try to do the same thing as major labels/DSPs are right now.
Not a Marxist myself but respecc on d analysis!
@@musicmarketing well, hate to break it to you but being against IP laws/copyright is actually a leftist position comrade 🤟 either way, I'm glad more people are acknowledging that IP laws don't protect indie artists. We can work together on a solution once awareness has been increased.
@@Faradaymusic its a bit libertarian innit? anarcho-capitalists all hate IP
@@Faradaymusic also, IP is a government regulation and mandate, so its hard to imagine IP abolitionism being leftist as it calls for a complete lack of regulation
Well that's the thing, Leftism and American Libertarianism both share a desire for personal liberty within society, albeit with different methods of reaching the "end goal". I think removing IP laws on music enables more personal liberty, so in that sense our ideas are aligned.
@0:06 Nope
They did not surpass
That's just called inflation, it means money is worth less and so, more amounts of it is needed to represent something
In 1999 money was worth more
I know my opinion may not matter at all, but I’ve always wanted to make a concert on the Blockchain after the NFT bull, but also seeing how it could be translated into artists and finding your first 1000 fans, and allowing to grow with you just an idea 10:18
Curious to hear your thoughts on this video in 2024, factoring in the rise of AI, plus how many creative fields right now seem to be struggling (not just music).
Music is worthless today. The money is the gadget to play it or a subscription.
You know he gonna chop this brick up into pieces 😂. Great interview hopefully he plays some of the Wutang album
This is an incredible video. Good job! 👍🏼
Thank you, interesting
Full Stack Creative looks like Hawk in Cobra kai
haha you're not the first to say this I also get Steve-O and Rowan Atkinson a lot
@@musicmarketing Steve-O more likely in lieu of Mr. Bean. WTF LoL
@@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY lolllll wait I effed up - Roman Atwood I meant 🤣🤣🤣
There are some good points here but I disagree that Intellectual Property rights are worth nothing. If that were true then you wouldn’t earn money from from performances if your songs, from sync rights or even from merchandising because others could gain the buzz from performing all your music maybe better than you and selling t shirts off the back of it. IP may not be as lucrative but it stops others from exploiting your music.
I would disagree that it stops others from exploiting your music - it merely gives you an opportunity to penalize others for exploiting your music. Your ability to penalize others for doing so is directly corollary to your resources - meaning, the more resources you have, the more you can chase others down OR, and this is important, become effectively IMMUNE from being chased down.
The publishers and record labels of the world have far more resources than the average individual when it comes to enforcing their intellectual property rights. And, they have far more resources than the average individual when it comes to defending themselves from intellectual property right enforcement.
Through this power, they have accumulated licensure to the entire history of recorded music. Major music industry conglomerates are a black hole for IP just like Samsung and Apple are for patent rights.
You cannot look at the intention of a policy when gauging its effectiveness - you have to look at the result. What has been the result?
It may be only a deterrent but it’s still an effective one. Who would want to rip off a song, gain success and then be exposed as a cheat never mind the financial cost?
@@colintylermusic1 i dont think IP laws achieve this dynamic - i think it exists without government-controlled IP
@@colintylermusic1 further; despite the existence of an established copyright regime in the states, there are more than enough examples to show that this dynamic has been muted by IP
@@musicmarketing So true.
This is a compelling video. Before I get into opinion on it however, I'll say that the background, synthesized "music" in the background (crap created on an electronic keyboard), detracts from his message. About intellectual property, anyone who has labored to write music, write a book, design a circuit, will understand that labor is at the heart of this issue. For some of you who confuse the entertainment quality of music, to indicate that artists are "just having fun" , you're mistaken. Work is involved. And, work should be compensated. (Do you work for free?) Intellectual property rights (copyright, patent) make complete sense. Just because technology has enabled listeners to steal another persons' work, doesn't invalidate that the artists' work should belong to them, AKA, property. The reason that he's saying this is that he's from the generation that confused being able to get something for free, with the moral right to do such a thing. AKA: Grown up, spoiled child, entitled. The problem doesn't lie with intellectual works being regarded as property. The problem lies with the entitlement and associated rationalizations that people use to steal other people's intellectual creations: I can do it, therefore it's right. Its a moral problem, not a legal problem. The technical description that he presents may actually work to get people to pay for intellectual works. The concepts, economically, about inflation and the worth of Bob Dylan's catalog are interesting, and worth pondering (I've never bought a Dylan album and wonder why other people would want to listen to that.) Anyway, it's an interesting video, and worth a fact check.
@KenTeel I aint reading all that
I'm happy for u tho
Or sorry that happened
@@musicmarketing That seems to be a modern mantra. You ask for opinions and when someone actually gives you a complete one..... well I'm only interested if it's an ADD style comment.
@@musicmarketing Then let me condense if for you: You're full of crap on somethings, and right on, on others. You're spoiled and entitled generation.
@@KenTeel I don't remember asking for your opinion I think you hallucinated that
Guess you could say things aren't... "Proficient."
I've been saying this for a loooong time
💥💥💥 truth bombs 💥💥💥
It sounds like a conspiracy....
If you remove intellectual property rights from the picture, and you only use a musician's music as a means to garner attention to then monetize this attention by selling products, wouldn't this musician be at a major disadvantage to regular content creators who use this same business model? It takes a lot of investment to consistently produce music, either in the time to develop the craft and skill or the money to invest in production, a lot more investment then to simply whip out a camera and shoot content. Not to mention that on top of making the music, musicians nowadays have to also shoot content to promote it. Why do all of that when the end goal is to sell products? Why not just make content then.
I think the argument would be that musicians ARE just content creators, with music being the type of content we create rather than the "product" and like you say, if we want to get anyone to hear the music we have to pair it with video content these days. I assume you are making the distinction between musicians and content creators who make videos about something besides music and yeah, maybe in some cases they have an easier time, assuming whatever their area of expertise is actually requires less knowledge or time than making music. But more importantly, I don't think anyone is arguing that wanting to profit from selling products is WHY we make music in the first place: We make music because its our art and its the kind of content we want to create. But then if we also want to somehow make money from it, yeah we need to sell products (also concert tickets are a product unique to musicians) or get endorsement deals or whatever just like any other content creator.
You should invite Rick Beato or he should invite you to his channel
That would be an awesome hookup. Ted Gioia would make it even better if all 3 could get together.
Will not work. Digital Art never lived on a blockchain, just regular databases that are able to be pirated.
Not wiff inscriptions tho
@@musicmarketingindeed
You gave us courage ! 😅
Side issue: Two big problems for Spotify: first, paying rights owners is not the issue, it's their refusal to increase subscription prices despite galloping inflation. From apples to airlines - every business has to kick up prices every few years. Neither Spotify nor the other streamers are doing this. So the size/value of the pie to be shared is shrinking in real terms (the same goes for physical sales, by the way).The other problem is the totally insane prices they have been paying for celebrity podcast talk shows that are not paying off by any measure. Yikes! Tech boom 2005 revisited. They should have kept that money and used it as a cushion to secure a rise in subscription rates that would have been followed by the others. Win-win. These are old-school business management issues. Having said that, IP is indeed in a very bad place if you look at the broader picture.
But the celebrity podcasts are paying off.
For every hour in a month that a Spotify user has to listen to audio on the app, Spotify will have to pay a certain cost. That cost is directly related to the amount of music that a user streams during each hour.
If you fill up more of those hours with royalty-free podcasts, you effectively reduce the average cost of goods sold for every user. This is one of Spotify's main strategies for flipping profitable - fill up your subscription month with podcast listening instead of music listening.
@@musicmarketing I get that, but I hear that the listeners are not listening enough to justify the upfront payments.
Hard to raise prices on something that can be gotten for free somewhere else. Raise prices -> lose customers -> revenue back to what it was before but with less users. Less users would mean less song plays, and less money paid out for those song plays, could help the bottom line - _maybe._
@@DynamicUnreal Of course, people have to understand the value. otherwise, the whole thing will die anyway. But I suspect that if they up prices, others will happily follow ;-)
Sony can make money licensing the bob dylan songs to sony movies.
they can make money by selling rights to their own subsidiary... very interesting...
Do you think they’re maybe buying these catalogs because in the long term they’ll be treated like fine art? The original Mona Lisa paintings or what not? People love to sample, or old music could be used in 2070 about back in the 2000s when things were so different once we have like zero original creativity cause of AI ?? Maybe original music will become a delicacy?? I can’t think of any reasons why they’re making these decisions with an unworthy Return of investment. Unless they plan to do biopics of these people & license the catalogues or something
What’s your alternative?
to stop focusing on getting revenue from music-based intellectual property
instead, use music to build a personal brand and then monetize the personal brand through merchandise, live events, digital products, and services
@musicmarketing You hit the nail right on the head in this video. I grew up listening & seeing people buy albums in the 80's & 90's. A way of looking at what you were saying in this video is you can have a million dollars in pennies or a million in platinum. If you asked the average person which is worth more most people would say they're both worth the same. Wrong!!!! The platinum is worth the most because it has a non corrosion factor while copper pennies have the corrosion factor from time. Also artist & music much like those pennies don't have the shelf life of 80's & 90's music & artist did. If you remember an artist going double platinum was a thing. Being double platinum now is rated in likes, streams, and views as of now. It's quicker to become a big name however the shelf life and quality have lessened. Your observation was on point & mature so although this video didn't get a million views I rate it platinum. 👍👌
Let's look at this logically if the price of goods have gone up by 200-300% in the past 4 years that would put the actual yearly inflation at 50% each year in reality 4yrs x 50% = 200% we have double digit inflation there just lying about the truth of the situation
@@JoeCryptola-b1m 50% inflation for 4 years is not 200% inflation doggie.
Wow. Eye opening... I suspected this. Great to see some numbers around this topic 👏 👍
This was so funny 🤣🤣🤣
such a cool video
Apple just bought a record label.
Mental illness is no joke 😢
Knock off the stupid sound effects