Because of you I lost my wife. However since we were not friends before and it was not an accident unlike single mother Beaverly Crusher I cannot forgive you like she did.
You can also feel the fact that SIsko is Commander while Picard is a Captain. The actors did a very good job of showing someone who would like to be even more aggressive but can't because Picard is his superior while Picard is using his authority to try and calm things down.
"Unfortunately as Starfleet Officers, we do not always have the luxury of working in an ideal environment." So much said in one sentence, addressing the Wolf359 encounter, Sisko's current situation, and life in general in Starfleet.
I never understood why civilians were not evacuated from all the ships at Wolf 359 beforehand. They *knew* they were going into battle. Jennifer and Jake Sisko should have been in a lifeboat a solar system or two away. Having civilians on military ships in the first place was stupid, but that really took the idiocy cake.
Picard: Commander, welcome to Bajor. Sisko: ...Locutus Picard: ... Broccoli you bastard you left the part about me killing this guys crew in the brief...
I can't believe you busted their balls about thirds and didn't say anything about the handshake composition across the window frame that simultaneously shows their unity and distance!
Not to mention that they do great thirds later on, with Sisko in the fore and Picard by the window. They purposely chose these shots to emphasize distance, to make those close-ups in the conversation itself even more powerful.
One thing I liked was that Picard didn't do what Picard has done many times before. Sisko was fairly disrespectful, and Picard could have dressed him down for it. But he fully understood siskos position and feeling, moved on and focused on a formal tone, and moved on. Ever diplomatic over the who thing.
Very few could dress down an Angry Sisko and live to tell the tale. I don't think he would've hesitated to reach over, and snap picard's old senile neck on the spot. This is the man that made an entire planet unable to have human life to get at one dude. Sisko was the captain they actually needed during this period, picard was the captain that revealed just how unprepared they actually were. Eventually Sisko does come to get over the thing, but it takes a long time. So yeah, picard probably saw in his first minute, he probably didn't want to escalate the conflict with sisko, cause he might end up like that planet, or that ambassador who asked too many questions. Or like Q, when he got punched in his stupid face for thinking sisko was picard.
3:18 You see in Picard's expression and tone (voice) his awkwardness, pain, sorrow, and regret. He changes the subject to avoid confronting it but you see it is now on his mind as he discuss the new topic. Also, Sisko is adept at reading this and you see him struggle with his own internal conflict of anger and pain to try to hold back to remain calm and collect. With Sisko it is more conveyed in his facial expression. If the camera had focused on more on Sisko you'll see he's thrown off by the sudden withdrawal of Picard and the sharp change in shift of topic. He is confused, collects himself, then adjusts to the new topic while trying to hold back the anger and pain which you see in his facial expression and tone of voice. The music also cuts at this time to focus more on the characters to show both their internal conflict. This here they were trying to show both characters internal struggles but it was just filmed wrong.
DS9 Sisko: you killed hundreds of people including my wife. TNG Picard: OMG guy that wasn’t even this episode aren’t we moving on? DS9 Sisko: in this series we remember continuity.
Several tens of thousand people actually, but good point on continuity. TNG tried to do it as well during its episode on the "Drumhead", where the female Admiral questioned Picard's loyalty and patriotism for the same purpose
I know it was a rush job to get the 39 starships to rendezvous at Wolf 359 to stop the Borg but I always wondered how/why they never attempted to clear out some of the non-essential personnel along the way (civilian families with children for example). Couldn't they just jump onto some shuttle crafts or something? They must have known they were going up against ridiculous odds...fighting a Borg cube.
@@pyriph Part of Starfleet's problem and Federation at large was their sense of superiority, they had won the Klingon Cold war, forced the Romulans into isolation for 50 years, and recently beat up the Cardassian Union. The brass of starfleet might have been overconfident in their ability to fight any battle against foes due to their technical knowledge. Q was right in this regard, when he addressed Picard in "Q Who", I am paraphrasing "you measure yourself against foes like Romulans and Klingons, but the Borg are truly alien". They weren't ready and paid for it with the lives of tens of thousands, including civilian women and children.
@@time391 Lots of truth to that; however, I also think about Admiral Hansen's comments when he came aboard Enterprise before the battle. He begins with "The truth is...hell...we are not ready." He refers to how Starfleet knew the Borg were coming for over a year and were trying to come up with new weapons to combat them. Riker even chimes in shortly after with "Obviously nothing we have now can stop them." With this conversation one can see how they view the Borg as more of a threat than anything else they were facing to that point. There may have been some in the fleet that had a sense of superiority despite this, but the impression is that they were erroring on the side of feeling un-prepared for the coming battle. At least that what I took away from the conversations we got to see.
The way he says “I was on the Saratoga at wolf 359” it was said with such intensity you feel the resentment sisko carries toward Picard. Even though the incident wasn’t really Picard’s fault the trauma sisko went through and the damage it caused his family is still very fresh in his mind
Kinda was his fault. He should've terminated his own life rather than be taken alive. Especially by the borg, as the captain of the flagship of starfleet. The information alone would make any sensible person in that situation melt their own head. But it really doesn't matter if its rational or not. Grief, loss, pain is NEVER rational. I lost my father back in 2020, and something just short circuited I went numb for a long time.
If there was any scene in which to say "This is not 'The Next Generation'", this scene would be it. Picard is not a family man, nor is he a warrior. He regrets what he became and how it was used to destroy so many lives, but other than that there's not much else personally at stake for him. His career is not in shambles, he didn't have his command taken away, and aside from an unfair shot at him from Norah Sattie, Starfleet brass seem content with him remaining where he is. And while he knows, intellectually, that command means people you're in charge of will die on missions you sent them on, again there's no real personal stake. From Picard's own character history, the closest it gets for him to know what it means to lose someone is Jack Crusher. Sisko, however, is a family man. While he was focused on his career, his family seemed to be the real driving force in his life. He may not have initially questioned Starfleet's policy about having families on-board ship, but certainly in the aftermath of Wolf 359 that would be, perhaps, the catalyst for questioning Starfleet policy. Even though Starfleet was not a "military", he threw himself into the work of preparing Starfleet for war. He was much more comfortable in bending rules to achieve a goal than Picard would ever be. And each of his losses would be ones that he would feel personally and deeply.
@@alex_inside that scene explicitly tells us he isn't Picard, but the first to establish that fact is the one being discussed in the video. We're not even settled into DS9 before being shown "This is definitely not going to be 'The Next Generation'"
What the Borg did to Picard was way beyond anything that happened to anyone else. I'm sure Picard knew many of the people he killed. He probably wished he had died rather than live with that atrocity.
Picard ( Q stop messing with my Ship and Crew ). Sisko Punches Q. Q ( Picard never hit me ). Sisko ( I'm not Picard ). Yip Sisko is way more of a warrior then a diplomat that's probably why TNG was mainly about Exploration and DS9 is more about War.
I also noticed that Q never went back to DS9 after that. It makes me think that if Picard or Janeway had done the same, he would have left them alone too
As much as I understand where Sisko is coming from. It's been three years he's already been through counseling and therapy about all this yet when he meets the person he knows was a pawn in all this. There's still that resentment and anger. How the heck is that not noted in his fitness report to Starfleet medical? By his reactions he'd be lucky to be running a desk on that ice station we saw in JJ trek let alone being in command at all. Thankfully they turned his character around but this is a situation that should not have happened.
Odds are the counseling and therapy largely worked up until he was face-to-face with a direct reminder of his trauma again. I can say from personal experience that these kinds of things don't always seem consistent from the outside. You can be 100% convinced that you're over it and fully functional, only for one seemingly illogical trigger to bring you right back to that moment. In fact, given that it's only been three years, Sisko actually handled that much better than most would have.
I marvel that Starfleet let Picard back on the Enterprise. Starfleet is way too free with the "aliens made me do it" excuse. My theory is that this is because Starfleet knows that their own training does most of the alien's mind-control work for them.
@Yuki BabaYaga Let go? No. But redirect to the actual killers? It's blatantly obvious the Borg killed Sisko's wife, if Sisko can't understand that then maybe that's why they sent him as far away from any potential Borg incursion. He'd probably execute captured Borg drones instead of trying to free them.
One of the biggest things I noticed is that Sisko barely blinks during his onscreen time here. He plays the “I am going to convey all my unspoken rage and anger towards this man while saying absolutely nothing that a higher ranking officer can fault me for” and pushed that envelope to its utmost limit. To me this scene early on displayed that the lead of the then-new series would have enough steel to stand up to the famous Picard and make him take a step back. Absolutely loved how they showed this character building block for Sisko.
One of my favourite scenes from an extremely underrated pilot episode. I actually think you may have missed commenting in the “information dump” part, I always saw were complex emotions coming through in the delivery. I think there is a lot more emotion in their performances than stated, it’s nuanced but at times is barely under control. I don’t think Sisko hates Picard, he hates that the face of Picard effectively broke him and killed his wife, and mother to his son, two of the people he cares about and would do anything to protect were both in a way destroyed that day. When he sees Picard he sees Locutus. He knows the score, Picard did him no harm, but it’s just how us humans might react in a similar situation. Picard on the other hand, the surprise is so well acted, the body language is perfect, and you genuinely feel for each of these people. Picard was broken too that day, and would never really get over it. He knows he can’t do or say anything to try and help Sisko, I mean what could he possibly say? It’s a very sad scene for me, and yes they were at their best here. I’m glad they didn’t bring back Picard for a “let’s be friends” episode, or even “I still hate you but we gotta work together” but it would have been fun to see these two great actors in these characters together again.
DS9 missed out on a great episode having Picard and Sisco work together and wolf 359 situation would hinder them working to gather. Having them bumping heads to the point they get arguing Picard could have broke down telling Sisco he could not stop and Sisco not understanding until he was put into a same style situation to help bring the two to a peaceful out come.
Malachi Casey maybe a crossover event where the crew of the Enterprise and DS9 have to stop a Borg threat. That could have been interesting. Sisco natural would be distrustful of Pircard. But that would have been when Sisco’s only option was to do just that.
@@MandalorV7 & Malachi Casey I remember hearing before it came out that they were originally going to have Sisko commanding the Defiant (with Worf as his XO) in First Contact. I wish they had stuck to that idea; we would have had Picard and Sisko forced to work together & put aside their differences and come to understand each other better. Plus, we'd have seen Sisko fighting the Borg, likely being a total badass while doing so...
A IDW comic book has a Sisko who returned from the Prophets. Picard puts him as captain of a starship. But the catch is that Picard assigns Data as his 1st officer to watch over Sisko. I have not yet read that comic. I only am only retelling part of the summary. I think the comic is called IDW. I read that IDW does a good job with continuity and bridging gaps.
A good scene. The best in DS9 "conflict" scenes like this one has to be in "Duet", between Kira and the Butcher of Gallotep in the holding cells. Incredibly well acted by both parties and a wide range of emotions on display. Video on that please? :)
Oooohhhh I want one of your scene analysis videos for EVERY SINGLE Garak scene. Especially the ones with Enabran Tain. Those THOSE will be masterful. I just know it.
Great analysis! how about 2 suggestions: 1. Picard & Sisko the second time at the end of the episode 2. When Picard & O'Brien say goodbye to one another
Perfect Segway from TNG to DS9. It's what I love about DS9. The characters really are multifaceted and the darkness they face is just as often from within and not just from without. It takes The Borg for us to get a menacing-Picard, but menacing-Sisco is there the whole time, an element of his personality that he struggles to balance throughout the series and the dichotomy between them is on full display from episode 1 of DS9. Culturally, for Gen X'ers, this scene and the Segway from TNG to DS9 was like a rite of passage; moving away from a childhood of worshiping heroes for their perfect ideals (the ideals of Starfleet), and towards the more adult reality of imperfectly struggling to apply those ideals in critically difficult and dissonant circumstances.
Actually when confronted Picard tone changes from friendly cordiality to official business this is also reinforced by Picard sitting down as a show of superior rank he takes a relaxed posture at the table in the chair at the head of the table the captains chair he immediately gives Sisco permission to sit down also.. He turns the tables instantly I’m not sure why you missed that. When Sisko stands again he’s defying the captains authority and Picard finally knows he’s beaten. Your right it’s a brilliant scene.
imagine if Sisko was in First Contact if he came in on the Defiant instead of Worf . he'd be even MORE angry toward the Borg than Picard (since the Borg killed his wife) and there would be so much tension between them on how to do things and they're both the same rank at that point . maybe Sisko would be willing to sacrifice the crew to get the Borg (since he's prone to "necessary evil" solutions) but Picard will insist on finding other ways to win without sacrificing their men , maybe even trying to save assimilated crew members . they would have polar opposite approaches and will clash but eventually compromise and find a middle ground and then co-operate to win
I think the Captain of the superior ship and with superior experience would be in charge in that situation and would be the one giving the final orders. Most likely it would have gone as you said, with the tension between them, but Sisko might have seen how Picards experience with the Borg had traumatised him and viewed him differently because of it and coming to respect him as a capable soldier against the Borg.
I think the two would oddly compliment each other; both coming form different starting perspectives, and meeting in the middle. Sisko has had a lot of time to get over his personal loss, and would not approach his strategies from a point of anger...just cold calculation. His time as a skipper, his spiritual experience with the Bajorans/Prophets, his relationship with Cassidy, and the Dominion war rounded him out pretty well. He's definitely willing to cross morality lines, but only as a very last resort. There may be some disagreements on tactics, but I think they'd definitely meet in the middle. Dare I say it, Picard had become more militant after his assimilation experience, Sisko more diplomatic. If Sisko were there, he'd be the one keeping Picard from pursuing his vengeance vendetta; ready room scene with Lily. I can imagine Sisko giving some exposition on dealing with the loss of his wife, and how he dealt with the war.
@@megathelos4976 First Contact took place before the war though . having Sisko there would have been great but then we wouldn't have Lily who was also great as a fish out of water character who also ended up helping Picard
Picard ( As Starfleet officers we sometimes don't get to work in an ideal environment ). I think he was saying that because he is a Starfleet officer and that got him caught by The Borg and he then had to work for them it's subtle but I think that's what he is trying to convey to Sisko to get him to understand.
One thing not discussed much these days is the fact that Avery Brooks around this time was also an acting Professor. If he ever used his own scenes in class, this would be a good one.
Interesting analysis. One point I'd like to add is how, after Sisko tells Picard where they've "met" and Picard turns away, Picard's voice is initially a touch thinner, quivering just a bit, before he settles down. You thought there was not much to say about those few seconds, but what I heard was Picard trying to soldier on through what he had to say, while the pain and regret of Wolf 359 came flooding back to him. Stewart's subtle performance said volumes to me!
Pretty sure that’s only for when they are leaving. If a captain gets to so he can point to something on a screen, do you think everyone in the room will stand up? No
If you're talkin better ships, poor Captain Sisko! "I have a beaten down Kardasian mining station that's been torn to smithereens, I hope Chief O'Brien can fix it."
That is a rule/convention within NATO, though, is it not? In a fleet of ships if two ships are commanded by officers of equal rank, the commander of the more powerful ship has effective command of the fleet. Picard implicitly used the same rule to take command of the fleet in First Contact. All we hear is "the Admiral's ship has been destroyed", but presumably most of the other ships were Captained by... well... Captains. Picard takes command because The Big-E is understood to be the most tactically potent ship in the fleet.
@@PharaohAlly Usually you know who is carrying the flag when you are assigned to the fleet operation. HOwever, this is not a giving. The British taskforce send to the Falklands started with an extremely confusing command structure, with had to fixed when the operation was already started.
@4:15 I couldn't disagree more about what's being accomplished there. The fact that Picard is trying to just move on as normal, and that it is falling very very flat, is a deliberate attempt to make normal feel awkward because of the stated elephant in the room, and it works REALLY well. Picard's attempt to make himself sound noble and decent in the following segment is basically a pleading of "Please like me! I'm not a Borg anymore!"
I really wonder after these break downs how much of this was actually talked about during filming or setting up these shots and how much of it was, "I just thought it looked good."
+Brandon Francey Nah, there are professionals at work before, deciding which set to use, setting, composition, where to place the camera's and when to do the reverse shot. There is more at play than just random choice.
I lime how these breakdowns let us people outside the industry get an insight into some of the inner workings. The confrontation between Worf and Kern in Kern's cabin in Sins of the Father stuck me as a scene that would be good for these.
The novelization added some more to this meeting (Picard silently reflecting to himself about making sure that Jake would be looked after in the future, indicating that Picard did feel regret for what happened to the Siskos), but I think the episode still stands great as shown.👍
I really love the DS9 pilot ep. It presents so many ideas and conflicts to work through, and gives us a lot about the Bajorans and the characters. -- This scene gives not only the starting conflict between Sisko and Picard, but the exposition about Bajor is needed, not throwaway. Then later, we get a mini, incomplete reconciliation where Sisko has changed his mind partially. -- Their intro of Kira in this ep, I've always liked, such a strong character. -- I recently rewatched the pilot and am doing a rewatch on the series. Gosh, I miss the show, but also, there was potential we never saw much of, like all the traders and colonists and sketchy, shady characters that could have been explored.
I remember that scene 1993 I thought Sisko was going to punch Picard in the face went he walk in in the conference room can't blame I would take it personal too
The Maquis was totally forgotten in DS9 later, and anyway, I was so dissapointed that Worf and others totally don't get they are anything more than random Criminals who are to blame always. Heck, even RIKER-2 Joined the Marqui!! How telling is that?!
DS9 is the true secular show to TGN. Right from the events from TGN play critical roles in setting up the show. A lot of the lore introduced in TNG was fleshed out in DS9. An encounter with the Borg is only thing missing from DS9.
You see, Picard was a DIplomat first, and a soldier second. Musician third Sisko was a Dad first, a Station Commander second, a warrior third, a cultural figure fourth, a Chef 5th, a baseball player 6th, and if he had any energy left partly diplomatic last. Assuming he didn't outright tell you to PISS OFF nicely or shape up Worf or punch Q in the face first.
I like how later on in the series, Sisko uses his mood to make clear how it's gonna be, and when the opponent in the discussion tries to manipulate the situation, he plays the part the opponent would have him play yet all the while maintaining his awareness of what the other character is doing and in the end, does not let himself be swayed from what he was going to do in the first place. Not only that, but can come to see when an enemy who is pretending to be nice is trying to set him up for a surprise attack and turns the table by having all weapons and defenses ready when the enemy gets there. Except of course....in his first few encounters with Eddington(post betrayal).
I don't think he was. It was obvious that Sisko wasn't in charge because his emotions were instead. The entire scene makes Sisko seem like a whiney kid in my opinion and frankly it makes me wonder why on earth Picard/Star Fleet made him commander of the station at all.
I love Patrick Stewart, but the way he pronounces “Bajor” always bugs me. And in TNG when he says “Bajoran” as “ba-jar-on” too, yet he says it right here. I do like his expression when Sisko tells him he was at Wolf 359 though.
At this point they were still figuring out the Bajor/Cardassia premise. In the NextGen episode that introduced Ensign Ro Laren, Picard called the people "the Bajora."
Rule of thirds was less practices for tv because of the aspect ratio use to be 4:3. It's more of a square so they used more a rule of two. You either have the main focus center frame. A focus of two either making up the center fram or on either side of the frame. A group focus blocked in various ways that gives the different depths for dimension making it more visual pleasing. The rule of thirds doesn't have the same effect on a square ratio then a wider one. In your clips alone you will find that Picard and Sisco are blocked center frame when they're the sole focus.
Your absolutely correct in your analysis of the final confrontation where Sisco abruptly stands up. It would have been a smarter choice to use a different transition for Sisco sitting down so that the intention of the blocking isn't confused. Including both makes for a contradiction in camera purpose.
"If instead I had died and the Borg had reanimated my corpse for use at Wolf 359, would that change your feelings toward me? For there would be no difference to my level of control in either circumstance. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm haunted constantly by those events as well, but your animus is misplaced. I was a victim of the circumstances the same as you and your loved ones. Can you not understand that?" ( If I was in Picard's position, this is the sort of thing I would have said)
Picard played it right. I'm sure that he has meet other people who feel the way Sisko does right there and he knows trying to engage is not going to go well.
@@tatimg6129 Agreed. He recognised that Sisko's response, though understandable, was not rational. Sisko was running on emotions here and attempting to logic him down probably would have ended badly, and Picard was a skilled enough diplomat to recognise that.
Probably Picard was sick of trying to justify what happened to Wolf 359 victims. That, or he knew if he tried Sisko probably would have slapped him one...
Sisko knew or should have known Picard's circumstances as Locutus, and how and why Starfleet subsequently decided to reinstate him. Sisko might've still had emotional issues, but as a professional, he couldn't've pushed it any farther than he did.
@@jimslancio Sisko was still a big jerk in my opinion. I can justly place more blame and hold a grudge against the man who accidentally ran a red light killing my mother than Sisko can justly hold against Picard. Just for the record, I hold no grudge against that man. He saw the light was green then bent down to grab something. The light then turned red, my mother anticipated the light and so was in the intersection to be struck by his car. I was 12 years old, and she was 41. The man couldn't bare to return to work for two weeks because he was so distraught. I didn't need to add to that misery over something ultimately out of his control. Therefore based off my own personal experience, I dislike Sisko very much in this scene.
Commander Sisko should have known that Picard was not in control over his own body. To blame it on him is unreasonable. I guess Sisko had not much experience with the Borg yet personally, only in combat at Wolf 359.
DS9 could have really used a episode where Sisko is exposed to the horror that is the Borg. Especially in the middle of the Dominion war with all sides putting aside their differences to barely achieve a victory but not before having to face their own loved ones and comrades turned to Borg drones.
I would have liked added dialogue by Picard about the Borg ripping away his knowledge. How he tried to resist. I wonder what Sisko's reaction could've/would've been.
It's always bothered me that Sisko actually blames Picard, as if Picard had any choice in what happened. (And yes I know it was revealed in First Contact (the movie) that Picard in fact was forced to choose to join the Borg by the Queen, but: a) Emissary came LONG before and so this 'fact' hadn't been thought up yet, and; b) there's no way Sisko would know that, because even Picard had suppressed that memory and was only reminded of it by the Queen during First Contact).
The Picard saving Earth by telling Data to input a hibernation command on the Borg collective is probably not a known fact in Federation. In fact, the credit probably was given to Data and Riker for saving Earth. There's probably no mentioning of Picard beside him being rescued.
@@Civsuccess2 I find it unbelievable that Data, Troy AND Crusher all left that detail out of their official reports. I think it's probable that the sleep command being Picard's idea despite still being assimilated would not only be well known thanks to the reports, but celebrated.
This scene grew on me, I like how Picard picked his battle here. It's almost like he knew something. He didn't call it into Starfleet about the transfer and gave him some.time. When they talk next Sisko seems to have a bit more respect knowing it wasn't about picard all along.
2:04 "i was on the Saratoga, at Wolf 359" *GLARE INTENSIFIES* o__o you can practically *FEEL* Picard think "Oh Fuck, Locutus." as he just starkly turns around.
Dude there's a literal line between them. Look at where the window frame is at all times. The characters never cross into eachother's space on the screen.
It may not be evident at first glance, but the context of that 'infodump' says a lot. Both men are acutely aware that what Cardassia did to Bajor pales in comparison to what the Borg would do, given the opportunity.
Another interesting way to show a difference in authority or experience between characters with movement and blocking alone in a horizontal way is with two characters walking. The first character is more experienced and straightforward. They are more keen to a faster pace and longer strides. They soon pull ahead of the inexperienced character. The leader realizes the difference between them and slows the pace more then need and the inexperienced character trying to prove themselves fully capable pulls ahead a bit still trying to match that original pace. Filmmaking is magical lol.
You could make an hilarious short story of how Sisko survived Wolf 359 because of Prophet intervention. The way they do things they could have manipulated a family line for generations so the one massive screw up would get assimilated and fail to kill him, lol.
Sisko: You killed my wife Picard: You have to understand that I wasn't my self Sisko: I'm taking Miles O'BRIEN and later Worf from you Picard: You what! Sisko: Consider this to be compensation for my lost. *Get up to walk out* Picard:......... Sisko: Oh yeah I'm going to do something that you could never do Picard: And what's that Commander Sisko: I'm going to punch Q
Ask much as I love this scene, I also wish that later in the series there had been another meeting between Sisko and Picard. In my mind at least, bar looking at Picard's personal struggle with his actions at Wolf 359 in First Contact, the impact on Starfleet of having a paragon like Jean-Luc Picard turn traitor (albeit against his will) is never really dealt with and I feel that was a missed opportunity. An arc (even if it was just an episode long) with Sisko and Picard finding resolution over their shared traumas could have been both thought provoking and a really good exploration at how two very different characters both have their place as captains and leaders in Starfleet.
Sisko: I was on the Saratoga, at Wolf 3. 5. 9.
Picard: No! Way!! I was there too!! Let's be besties!!!
Because of you I lost my wife. However since we were not friends before and it was not an accident unlike single mother Beaverly Crusher I cannot forgive you like she did.
Good luck with that. lol
You can also feel the fact that SIsko is Commander while Picard is a Captain. The actors did a very good job of showing someone who would like to be even more aggressive but can't because Picard is his superior while Picard is using his authority to try and calm things down.
"Unfortunately as Starfleet Officers, we do not always have the luxury of working in an ideal environment." So much said in one sentence, addressing the Wolf359 encounter, Sisko's current situation, and life in general in Starfleet.
Starfleet has a lot of problems in the 24th Century
"I had to serve with Wesley for years after all!"
Picard could have ordered Sisko to accept or resign from Starfleet. He didn't.
He idiot!
Picard did NOT kill his Wife.
I never understood why civilians were not evacuated from all the ships at Wolf 359 beforehand. They *knew* they were going into battle. Jennifer and Jake Sisko should have been in a lifeboat a solar system or two away. Having civilians on military ships in the first place was stupid, but that really took the idiocy cake.
Picard: Commander, welcome to Bajor.
Sisko: ...Locutus
Picard: ... Broccoli you bastard you left the part about me killing this guys crew in the brief...
Not Reg's job. He's not a people officer.
But maybe Troi was off to Risa or something.
eigensinn83 you still have to admit it’s a huge oversight that wasn’t included in Picards mission brief, but apparently sisko’s.
And his wife.... really forgot about the wife there.
Broken Eyes
If Picard been thorough he would know Sisko was at Wolf359.
@Ben Siener You're right 😭
I can't believe you busted their balls about thirds and didn't say anything about the handshake composition across the window frame that simultaneously shows their unity and distance!
Not to mention that they do great thirds later on, with Sisko in the fore and Picard by the window. They purposely chose these shots to emphasize distance, to make those close-ups in the conversation itself even more powerful.
Picard's acting in this scene really plays up that he's off balance by sisko until sisko shows he could care less, then he switches to dad voice
*couldn't care less
"In DS9 we hold grudges." Pretty good summation of the series.
One thing I liked was that Picard didn't do what Picard has done many times before.
Sisko was fairly disrespectful, and Picard could have dressed him down for it. But he fully understood siskos position and feeling, moved on and focused on a formal tone, and moved on.
Ever diplomatic over the who thing.
Very few could dress down an Angry Sisko and live to tell the tale. I don't think he would've hesitated to reach over, and snap picard's old senile neck on the spot. This is the man that made an entire planet unable to have human life to get at one dude. Sisko was the captain they actually needed during this period, picard was the captain that revealed just how unprepared they actually were.
Eventually Sisko does come to get over the thing, but it takes a long time. So yeah, picard probably saw in his first minute, he probably didn't want to escalate the conflict with sisko, cause he might end up like that planet, or that ambassador who asked too many questions. Or like Q, when he got punched in his stupid face for thinking sisko was picard.
I always loved this scene. As TNGs optimism shifts to DS9s darker stories, the scene shows that distinction.
3:18 You see in Picard's expression and tone (voice) his awkwardness, pain, sorrow, and regret. He changes the subject to avoid confronting it but you see it is now on his mind as he discuss the new topic. Also, Sisko is adept at reading this and you see him struggle with his own internal conflict of anger and pain to try to hold back to remain calm and collect. With Sisko it is more conveyed in his facial expression. If the camera had focused on more on Sisko you'll see he's thrown off by the sudden withdrawal of Picard and the sharp change in shift of topic. He is confused, collects himself, then adjusts to the new topic while trying to hold back the anger and pain which you see in his facial expression and tone of voice. The music also cuts at this time to focus more on the characters to show both their internal conflict. This here they were trying to show both characters internal struggles but it was just filmed wrong.
well voiced, I thouroughly agree!
DS9 Sisko: you killed hundreds of people including my wife.
TNG Picard: OMG guy that wasn’t even this episode aren’t we moving on?
DS9 Sisko: in this series we remember continuity.
But i didn't! I was assimilating under the influence!!!
Several tens of thousand people actually, but good point on continuity. TNG tried to do it as well during its episode on the "Drumhead", where the female Admiral questioned Picard's loyalty and patriotism for the same purpose
I know it was a rush job to get the 39 starships to rendezvous at Wolf 359 to stop the Borg but I always wondered how/why they never attempted to clear out some of the non-essential personnel along the way (civilian families with children for example). Couldn't they just jump onto some shuttle crafts or something? They must have known they were going up against ridiculous odds...fighting a Borg cube.
@@pyriph Part of Starfleet's problem and Federation at large was their sense of superiority, they had won the Klingon Cold war, forced the Romulans into isolation for 50 years, and recently beat up the Cardassian Union. The brass of starfleet might have been overconfident in their ability to fight any battle against foes due to their technical knowledge.
Q was right in this regard, when he addressed Picard in "Q Who", I am paraphrasing "you measure yourself against foes like Romulans and Klingons, but the Borg are truly alien". They weren't ready and paid for it with the lives of tens of thousands, including civilian women and children.
@@time391 Lots of truth to that; however, I also think about Admiral Hansen's comments when he came aboard Enterprise before the battle. He begins with "The truth is...hell...we are not ready." He refers to how Starfleet knew the Borg were coming for over a year and were trying to come up with new weapons to combat them. Riker even chimes in shortly after with "Obviously nothing we have now can stop them." With this conversation one can see how they view the Borg as more of a threat than anything else they were facing to that point. There may have been some in the fleet that had a sense of superiority despite this, but the impression is that they were erroring on the side of feeling un-prepared for the coming battle. At least that what I took away from the conversations we got to see.
The way he says “I was on the Saratoga at wolf 359” it was said with such intensity you feel the resentment sisko carries toward Picard. Even though the incident wasn’t really Picard’s fault the trauma sisko went through and the damage it caused his family is still very fresh in his mind
Kinda was his fault. He should've terminated his own life rather than be taken alive. Especially by the borg, as the captain of the flagship of starfleet. The information alone would make any sensible person in that situation melt their own head. But it really doesn't matter if its rational or not. Grief, loss, pain is NEVER rational. I lost my father back in 2020, and something just short circuited I went numb for a long time.
If there was any scene in which to say "This is not 'The Next Generation'", this scene would be it. Picard is not a family man, nor is he a warrior. He regrets what he became and how it was used to destroy so many lives, but other than that there's not much else personally at stake for him. His career is not in shambles, he didn't have his command taken away, and aside from an unfair shot at him from Norah Sattie, Starfleet brass seem content with him remaining where he is. And while he knows, intellectually, that command means people you're in charge of will die on missions you sent them on, again there's no real personal stake. From Picard's own character history, the closest it gets for him to know what it means to lose someone is Jack Crusher.
Sisko, however, is a family man. While he was focused on his career, his family seemed to be the real driving force in his life. He may not have initially questioned Starfleet's policy about having families on-board ship, but certainly in the aftermath of Wolf 359 that would be, perhaps, the catalyst for questioning Starfleet policy. Even though Starfleet was not a "military", he threw himself into the work of preparing Starfleet for war. He was much more comfortable in bending rules to achieve a goal than Picard would ever be. And each of his losses would be ones that he would feel personally and deeply.
I'd say the scene where Sisko beat Q up would be the scene to say so.
@@alex_inside that scene explicitly tells us he isn't Picard, but the first to establish that fact is the one being discussed in the video. We're not even settled into DS9 before being shown "This is definitely not going to be 'The Next Generation'"
What the Borg did to Picard was way beyond anything that happened to anyone else. I'm sure Picard knew many of the people he killed. He probably wished he had died rather than live with that atrocity.
Idk id say the one where he poisons an entire planet to catch the Marquis dude was a pretty strong indication that sisko gives no fucks
Picard did lose his chief of security Tasha Yar.
This shows a really interesting transition between TNG and DS9. Takk
Segðu bara thanks, hallærislegt
The Sisko growl is arguably the best thing about sisko. Its his tell when he is over the shit
Picard ( Q stop messing with my Ship and Crew ).
Sisko Punches Q.
Q ( Picard never hit me ).
Sisko ( I'm not Picard ).
Yip Sisko is way more of a warrior then a diplomat that's probably why TNG was mainly about Exploration and DS9 is more about War.
Q: Yes, You're much easier to provoke.
I also noticed that Q never went back to DS9 after that. It makes me think that if Picard or Janeway had done the same, he would have left them alone too
@@Ares99999 How fortunate for meeeeee.
@@seanmcgrath3826 But then they would have failed the trial. And anyway it's better to be friends with Q than enemies.
@@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870 True. I hadn't thought of that
The acting was so good, just by watching, you can feel the tension in the air. I loved this part.
What Sisko was really thinking - I hate your guts but love your hairline.
As much as I understand where Sisko is coming from. It's been three years he's already been through counseling and therapy about all this yet when he meets the person he knows was a pawn in all this. There's still that resentment and anger. How the heck is that not noted in his fitness report to Starfleet medical? By his reactions he'd be lucky to be running a desk on that ice station we saw in JJ trek let alone being in command at all. Thankfully they turned his character around but this is a situation that should not have happened.
TNG: The future is nearly perfect.
DS9: No it's not.
Odds are the counseling and therapy largely worked up until he was face-to-face with a direct reminder of his trauma again. I can say from personal experience that these kinds of things don't always seem consistent from the outside. You can be 100% convinced that you're over it and fully functional, only for one seemingly illogical trigger to bring you right back to that moment. In fact, given that it's only been three years, Sisko actually handled that much better than most would have.
I marvel that Starfleet let Picard back on the Enterprise. Starfleet is way too free with the "aliens made me do it" excuse. My theory is that this is because Starfleet knows that their own training does most of the alien's mind-control work for them.
@Yuki BabaYaga Let go? No. But redirect to the actual killers? It's blatantly obvious the Borg killed Sisko's wife, if Sisko can't understand that then maybe that's why they sent him as far away from any potential Borg incursion. He'd probably execute captured Borg drones instead of trying to free them.
This scene let the audience know that Sisko will be a total different type of captain, and that DS9 would be a different type of Star Trek.
God those VHS noise bars have me super nostalgic
Nothing like pausing old school style!
One of the biggest things I noticed is that Sisko barely blinks during his onscreen time here. He plays the “I am going to convey all my unspoken rage and anger towards this man while saying absolutely nothing that a higher ranking officer can fault me for” and pushed that envelope to its utmost limit. To me this scene early on displayed that the lead of the then-new series would have enough steel to stand up to the famous Picard and make him take a step back. Absolutely loved how they showed this character building block for Sisko.
You know... the "I am not Picard!" when he punched Q...
One of my favourite scenes from an extremely underrated pilot episode. I actually think you may have missed commenting in the “information dump” part, I always saw were complex emotions coming through in the delivery. I think there is a lot more emotion in their performances than stated, it’s nuanced but at times is barely under control. I don’t think Sisko hates Picard, he hates that the face of Picard effectively broke him and killed his wife, and mother to his son, two of the people he cares about and would do anything to protect were both in a way destroyed that day. When he sees Picard he sees Locutus. He knows the score, Picard did him no harm, but it’s just how us humans might react in a similar situation. Picard on the other hand, the surprise is so well acted, the body language is perfect, and you genuinely feel for each of these people. Picard was broken too that day, and would never really get over it. He knows he can’t do or say anything to try and help Sisko, I mean what could he possibly say? It’s a very sad scene for me, and yes they were at their best here. I’m glad they didn’t bring back Picard for a “let’s be friends” episode, or even “I still hate you but we gotta work together” but it would have been fun to see these two great actors in these characters together again.
You would think Picard would have looked up his service record before this encounter
Travis Davis that’s true, he was always portrayed as someone who knew who he was about to engage with before meeting them. Creative license I suppose.
DS9 missed out on a great episode having Picard and Sisco work together and wolf 359 situation would hinder them working to gather. Having them bumping heads to the point they get arguing Picard could have broke down telling Sisco he could not stop and Sisco not understanding until he was put into a same style situation to help bring the two to a peaceful out come.
Malachi Casey maybe a crossover event where the crew of the Enterprise and DS9 have to stop a Borg threat. That could have been interesting. Sisco natural would be distrustful of Pircard. But that would have been when Sisco’s only option was to do just that.
@@MandalorV7 & Malachi Casey I remember hearing before it came out that they were originally going to have Sisko commanding the Defiant (with Worf as his XO) in First Contact. I wish they had stuck to that idea; we would have had Picard and Sisko forced to work together & put aside their differences and come to understand each other better. Plus, we'd have seen Sisko fighting the Borg, likely being a total badass while doing so...
@@MandalorV7 that would be a really good story even the first contact original idea
They seemed to come to terms at the end of the episode.
A IDW comic book has a Sisko who returned from the Prophets. Picard puts him as captain of a starship. But the catch is that Picard assigns Data as his 1st officer to watch over Sisko. I have not yet read that comic. I only am only retelling part of the summary. I think the comic is called IDW. I read that IDW does a good job with continuity and bridging gaps.
Picard's like "WooooW had to go there." 😞
A good scene.
The best in DS9 "conflict" scenes like this one has to be in "Duet", between Kira and the Butcher of Gallotep in the holding cells.
Incredibly well acted by both parties and a wide range of emotions on display.
Video on that please? :)
Those scenes were great. Not only the acting but it was amazing character development for Kira.
Oooohhhh I want one of your scene analysis videos for EVERY SINGLE Garak scene. Especially the ones with Enabran Tain. Those THOSE will be masterful. I just know it.
What would really resonate with me is doing some of the best scenes featuring Morn.
@@abelq8008 ugh
Great analysis! how about 2 suggestions:
1. Picard & Sisko the second time at the end of the episode
2. When Picard & O'Brien say goodbye to one another
Two men with powerful acting voices and backgrounds in a great scene.
Perfect Segway from TNG to DS9. It's what I love about DS9. The characters really are multifaceted and the darkness they face is just as often from within and not just from without. It takes The Borg for us to get a menacing-Picard, but menacing-Sisco is there the whole time, an element of his personality that he struggles to balance throughout the series and the dichotomy between them is on full display from episode 1 of DS9. Culturally, for Gen X'ers, this scene and the Segway from TNG to DS9 was like a rite of passage; moving away from a childhood of worshiping heroes for their perfect ideals (the ideals of Starfleet), and towards the more adult reality of imperfectly struggling to apply those ideals in critically difficult and dissonant circumstances.
well said. hadn't thought of that, but I agree.
Actually when confronted Picard tone changes from friendly cordiality to official business this is also reinforced by Picard sitting down as a show of superior rank he takes a relaxed posture at the table in the chair at the head of the table the captains chair he immediately gives Sisco permission to sit down also.. He turns the tables instantly I’m not sure why you missed that. When Sisko stands again he’s defying the captains authority and Picard finally knows he’s beaten. Your right it’s a brilliant scene.
imagine if Sisko was in First Contact if he came in on the Defiant instead of Worf . he'd be even MORE angry toward the Borg than Picard (since the Borg killed his wife) and there would be so much tension between them on how to do things and they're both the same rank at that point .
maybe Sisko would be willing to sacrifice the crew to get the Borg (since he's prone to "necessary evil" solutions) but Picard will insist on finding other ways to win without sacrificing their men , maybe even trying to save assimilated crew members . they would have polar opposite approaches and will clash but eventually compromise and find a middle ground and then co-operate to win
I think the Captain of the superior ship and with superior experience would be in charge in that situation and would be the one giving the final orders. Most likely it would have gone as you said, with the tension between them, but Sisko might have seen how Picards experience with the Borg had traumatised him and viewed him differently because of it and coming to respect him as a capable soldier against the Borg.
@@aperioculus1988 you are right! Capt Janeway did that to get the upper hand against the Capt of the Equinox.
I think the two would oddly compliment each other; both coming form different starting perspectives, and meeting in the middle. Sisko has had a lot of time to get over his personal loss, and would not approach his strategies from a point of anger...just cold calculation. His time as a skipper, his spiritual experience with the Bajorans/Prophets, his relationship with Cassidy, and the Dominion war rounded him out pretty well. He's definitely willing to cross morality lines, but only as a very last resort. There may be some disagreements on tactics, but I think they'd definitely meet in the middle.
Dare I say it, Picard had become more militant after his assimilation experience, Sisko more diplomatic. If Sisko were there, he'd be the one keeping Picard from pursuing his vengeance vendetta; ready room scene with Lily. I can imagine Sisko giving some exposition on dealing with the loss of his wife, and how he dealt with the war.
@@megathelos4976 First Contact took place before the war though . having Sisko there would have been great but then we wouldn't have Lily who was also great as a fish out of water character who also ended up helping Picard
Sisko: "Do you even remember any of them?"
Picard: "I remember ALL of them!"
Picard ( As Starfleet officers we sometimes don't get to work in an ideal environment ).
I think he was saying that because he is a Starfleet officer and that got him caught by The Borg and he then had to work for them it's subtle but I think that's what he is trying to convey to Sisko to get him to understand.
Meh
One thing not discussed much these days is the fact that Avery Brooks around this time was also an acting Professor. If he ever used his own scenes in class, this would be a good one.
Love these Analysis/breakdown videos :) they are really cool and insightful to watch!
YAY MORE DS9 EPISODES
Interesting analysis. One point I'd like to add is how, after Sisko tells Picard where they've "met" and Picard turns away, Picard's voice is initially a touch thinner, quivering just a bit, before he settles down. You thought there was not much to say about those few seconds, but what I heard was Picard trying to soldier on through what he had to say, while the pain and regret of Wolf 359 came flooding back to him. Stewart's subtle performance said volumes to me!
I'd forgotten how big Benjamin "War Crimes for Everybody!" Sisko was on blaming the victim of what was essentially a form of rape.
He was cool with Picard by the end of the episode. He finally got over the death of his wife.
5:00 - Picard standing up is a possible testing from Picard to see if Sisko has respect for him. If Picard stands up, Sisko should have stood up.
Pretty sure that’s only for when they are leaving. If a captain gets to so he can point to something on a screen, do you think everyone in the room will stand up? No
That scene was so minimalistic, but It had so much weight behind it making it one of the most memorable from that first season.
Good thing Picard wasn't dealing with Janeway
Janeway-"we are all captains, equal in rank"
Also Janeway "I am in command, I have the better ship"
Only Janeway could find a way to pull rank on someone of the same rank.
She looked up the rule to get clarification incase it came up, witch is what any competent captian would do
If you're talkin better ships, poor Captain Sisko! "I have a beaten down Kardasian mining station that's been torn to smithereens, I hope Chief O'Brien can fix it."
That is a rule/convention within NATO, though, is it not? In a fleet of ships if two ships are commanded by officers of equal rank, the commander of the more powerful ship has effective command of the fleet. Picard implicitly used the same rule to take command of the fleet in First Contact. All we hear is "the Admiral's ship has been destroyed", but presumably most of the other ships were Captained by... well... Captains. Picard takes command because The Big-E is understood to be the most tactically potent ship in the fleet.
@@PharaohAlly Usually you know who is carrying the flag when you are assigned to the fleet operation. HOwever, this is not a giving. The British taskforce send to the Falklands started with an extremely confusing command structure, with had to fixed when the operation was already started.
Great break down. Keep up the good work.
@4:15 I couldn't disagree more about what's being accomplished there. The fact that Picard is trying to just move on as normal, and that it is falling very very flat, is a deliberate attempt to make normal feel awkward because of the stated elephant in the room, and it works REALLY well.
Picard's attempt to make himself sound noble and decent in the following segment is basically a pleading of "Please like me! I'm not a Borg anymore!"
dude *how* has this channel not been recommended to me before? This is awesome.
Lore, give us more vids like this one. Love your analysis.
I really wonder after these break downs how much of this was actually talked about during filming or setting up these shots and how much of it was, "I just thought it looked good."
+Brandon Francey
Nah, there are professionals at work before, deciding which set to use, setting, composition, where to place the camera's and when to do the reverse shot. There is more at play than just random choice.
Tuning3434
True except for std and stp
I lime how these breakdowns let us people outside the industry get an insight into some of the inner workings.
The confrontation between Worf and Kern in Kern's cabin in Sins of the Father stuck me as a scene that would be good for these.
The novelization added some more to this meeting (Picard silently reflecting to himself about making sure that Jake would be looked after in the future, indicating that Picard did feel regret for what happened to the Siskos), but I think the episode still stands great as shown.👍
My opinion.... Is now I wanna see you analyze the Sisko vs Q boxing match. Especially with the "I'm not Picard" line, lol.
I’ve been waiting for an analysis of this tense scene for so long thank you so much for making this Lore!
I really love the DS9 pilot ep. It presents so many ideas and conflicts to work through, and gives us a lot about the Bajorans and the characters. -- This scene gives not only the starting conflict between Sisko and Picard, but the exposition about Bajor is needed, not throwaway. Then later, we get a mini, incomplete reconciliation where Sisko has changed his mind partially. -- Their intro of Kira in this ep, I've always liked, such a strong character. -- I recently rewatched the pilot and am doing a rewatch on the series. Gosh, I miss the show, but also, there was potential we never saw much of, like all the traders and colonists and sketchy, shady characters that could have been explored.
I was waiting for this since the episode aired!
Sisko never completed his assignment of getting the Bajorans to be inducted into the Federation! Maybe resistance to anything Picard says!?
I remember that scene 1993 I thought Sisko was going to punch Picard in the face went he walk in in the conference room can't blame I would take it personal too
A well done breakdown.....you slowed it down and it became more intense....even uncomfortable.
Going VHS on playbacks. Old school. I love it.
Q: you hit me, Picard never hits me
Sisco: well, I'm not Picard
The Maquis was totally forgotten in DS9 later, and anyway, I was so dissapointed that Worf and others totally don't get they are anything more than random Criminals who are to blame always.
Heck, even RIKER-2 Joined the Marqui!! How telling is that?!
When later? Later, when the dominion completely destroyed them all?
Sisal was able to portray his feelings to Picard without saying very much. That’s the beauty of this dialogue.
Picard, “As if you’ve never had a bad day.”
DS9 is the true secular show to TGN. Right from the events from TGN play critical roles in setting up the show. A lot of the lore introduced in TNG was fleshed out in DS9. An encounter with the Borg is only thing missing from DS9.
I would've loves there to be several episodes where they played off each other...AND THEIR PERSONAL ISSUES NEVER GET RESOLVED.
You see, Picard was a DIplomat first, and a soldier second. Musician third
Sisko was a Dad first, a Station Commander second, a warrior third, a cultural figure fourth, a Chef 5th, a baseball player 6th, and if he had any energy left partly diplomatic last. Assuming he didn't outright tell you to PISS OFF nicely or shape up Worf or punch Q in the face first.
I like how later on in the series, Sisko uses his mood to make clear how it's gonna be, and when the opponent in the discussion tries to manipulate the situation, he plays the part the opponent would have him play yet all the while maintaining his awareness of what the other character is doing and in the end, does not let himself be swayed from what he was going to do in the first place. Not only that, but can come to see when an enemy who is pretending to be nice is trying to set him up for a surprise attack and turns the table by having all weapons and defenses ready when the enemy gets there. Except of course....in his first few encounters with Eddington(post betrayal).
I have been waiting for this!
Picard had 4 pips on his collar, but in that room, The SISKO was in charge.
First name. Don't fuck with
Nope. I'm pretty sure Picard was in charge. Sisko was just an asshole Picard had to deal with, here.
Picard vs. Sisko is a competition to see who gets 2nd place and a participation trophy........Captain Kirk holds the No. 1 spot.
You said "the Sisko." That made me stop and think that maybe the Prophets had a subtle hand in this discussion.
I don't think he was. It was obvious that Sisko wasn't in charge because his emotions were instead.
The entire scene makes Sisko seem like a whiney kid in my opinion and frankly it makes me wonder why on earth Picard/Star Fleet made him commander of the station at all.
These scene analysis fucking rock my dude! Keep it up!
I love Patrick Stewart, but the way he pronounces “Bajor” always bugs me. And in TNG when he says “Bajoran” as “ba-jar-on” too, yet he says it right here. I do like his expression when Sisko tells him he was at Wolf 359 though.
At this point they were still figuring out the Bajor/Cardassia premise. In the NextGen episode that introduced Ensign Ro Laren, Picard called the people "the Bajora."
Well, I mean, even though Wikipedia and Google have pronunciation guides and tools, plenty of people still mangle unfamiliar places and names.
Alway bugged me that Kira pronounces it with a hard j, while most others pronounce it more softly
Rule of thirds was less practices for tv because of the aspect ratio use to be 4:3. It's more of a square so they used more a rule of two. You either have the main focus center frame. A focus of two either making up the center fram or on either side of the frame. A group focus blocked in various ways that gives the different depths for dimension making it more visual pleasing. The rule of thirds doesn't have the same effect on a square ratio then a wider one. In your clips alone you will find that Picard and Sisco are blocked center frame when they're the sole focus.
Yea, I thought about that after this went live .. also the joke doesn’t work :p
It's such a shame we didn't get more than a couple scenes between these two, in a lot of ways the best 2 captains in Star Trek history.
3:41 - the meaningful part here is that the two have reached a stabilized point of equal footing. that is no small thing
Agreed. Brilliant scene. You really get a sense of how damaged they both are.
Your absolutely correct in your analysis of the final confrontation where Sisco abruptly stands up. It would have been a smarter choice to use a different transition for Sisco sitting down so that the intention of the blocking isn't confused. Including both makes for a contradiction in camera purpose.
"If instead I had died and the Borg had reanimated my corpse for use at Wolf 359, would that change your feelings toward me? For there would be no difference to my level of control in either circumstance.
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm haunted constantly by those events as well, but your animus is misplaced. I was a victim of the circumstances the same as you and your loved ones. Can you not understand that?"
( If I was in Picard's position, this is the sort of thing I would have said)
Picard played it right. I'm sure that he has meet other people who feel the way Sisko does right there and he knows trying to engage is not going to go well.
@@tatimg6129 Agreed. He recognised that Sisko's response, though understandable, was not rational. Sisko was running on emotions here and attempting to logic him down probably would have ended badly, and Picard was a skilled enough diplomat to recognise that.
Probably Picard was sick of trying to justify what happened to Wolf 359 victims. That, or he knew if he tried Sisko probably would have slapped him one...
Sisko knew or should have known Picard's circumstances as Locutus, and how and why Starfleet subsequently decided to reinstate him. Sisko might've still had emotional issues, but as a professional, he couldn't've pushed it any farther than he did.
@@jimslancio Sisko was still a big jerk in my opinion. I can justly place more blame and hold a grudge against the man who accidentally ran a red light killing my mother than Sisko can justly hold against Picard. Just for the record, I hold no grudge against that man. He saw the light was green then bent down to grab something. The light then turned red, my mother anticipated the light and so was in the intersection to be struck by his car. I was 12 years old, and she was 41. The man couldn't bare to return to work for two weeks because he was so distraught. I didn't need to add to that misery over something ultimately out of his control. Therefore based off my own personal experience, I dislike Sisko very much in this scene.
Wayun and Sisko when they both know war is going to happen...but hidden in conversation
Commander Sisko should have known that Picard was not in control over his own body. To blame it on him is unreasonable. I guess Sisko had not much experience with the Borg yet personally, only in combat at Wolf 359.
DS9 could have really used a episode where Sisko is exposed to the horror that is the Borg. Especially in the middle of the Dominion war with all sides putting aside their differences to barely achieve a victory but not before having to face their own loved ones and comrades turned to Borg drones.
That was a very powerful scene! But what professionalism! Amazing!
I would have liked added dialogue by Picard about the Borg ripping away his knowledge. How he tried to resist. I wonder what Sisko's reaction could've/would've been.
Educational. Thanks. Turned up in my recommendeds. Subscribed. Very well explained. Love trek. Only series I never finished was DS9.
DS9 was actually the reason I fell in love with trek. Being a 40k fan its the series that most fat with my type of stuff.
@@NeiasaurusCreations I've since watched and finished it. I liked it. So dark. Not very treky tho
@@CrackedCandy It is very treky though. Theres a lot of darkness everywhere in trek. I mean just look at every series after ds9.
It's interesting how due the perspective at the 4:44 time Picard looks like small child in front of big father Sisko :) Love this particular POV.
I enjoy your scene analysis.
It's always bothered me that Sisko actually blames Picard, as if Picard had any choice in what happened.
(And yes I know it was revealed in First Contact (the movie) that Picard in fact was forced to choose to join the Borg by the Queen, but: a) Emissary came LONG before and so this 'fact' hadn't been thought up yet, and; b) there's no way Sisko would know that, because even Picard had suppressed that memory and was only reminded of it by the Queen during First Contact).
Even then, I wouldn't consider that much of a choice when the alternative is to condemn not only yourself but many others to their deaths.
The Picard saving Earth by telling Data to input a hibernation command on the Borg collective is probably not a known fact in Federation. In fact, the credit probably was given to Data and Riker for saving Earth. There's probably no mentioning of Picard beside him being rescued.
@@Civsuccess2 I find it unbelievable that Data, Troy AND Crusher all left that detail out of their official reports. I think it's probable that the sleep command being Picard's idea despite still being assimilated would not only be well known thanks to the reports, but celebrated.
You can tell how uncomfortable Picard suddenly is and all he wants to do is quickly change the subject.
This scene grew on me, I like how Picard picked his battle here. It's almost like he knew something. He didn't call it into Starfleet about the transfer and gave him some.time. When they talk next Sisko seems to have a bit more respect knowing it wasn't about picard all along.
This is different. I like it.
2:04 "i was on the Saratoga, at Wolf 359" *GLARE INTENSIFIES* o__o
you can practically *FEEL* Picard think "Oh Fuck, Locutus." as he just starkly turns around.
Dude there's a literal line between them. Look at where the window frame is at all times. The characters never cross into eachother's space on the screen.
TIL: how original trek dealt with holding grudges 😂 Back to the age old question of kirk or picard? The answer is Sisko!
Another awesome video!
Picard really looks ashamed and regretful after Sisco tells him about the saratoga
It may not be evident at first glance, but the context of that 'infodump' says a lot. Both men are acutely aware that what Cardassia did to Bajor pales in comparison to what the Borg would do, given the opportunity.
Excellent analysis.
DS9 was so ballsy to have Sisko challenge Picard like this in the PILOT.
Picard has something with killing spouses
Who else?
@@mostlymessingabout Jack Crusher
Another interesting way to show a difference in authority or experience between characters with movement and blocking alone in a horizontal way is with two characters walking. The first character is more experienced and straightforward. They are more keen to a faster pace and longer strides. They soon pull ahead of the inexperienced character. The leader realizes the difference between them and slows the pace more then need and the inexperienced character trying to prove themselves fully capable pulls ahead a bit still trying to match that original pace. Filmmaking is magical lol.
You could make an hilarious short story of how Sisko survived Wolf 359 because of Prophet intervention. The way they do things they could have manipulated a family line for generations so the one massive screw up would get assimilated and fail to kill him, lol.
Sisko: You killed my wife
Picard: You have to understand that I wasn't my self
Sisko: I'm taking Miles O'BRIEN and later Worf from you
Picard: You what!
Sisko: Consider this to be compensation for my lost. *Get up to walk out*
Picard:.........
Sisko: Oh yeah I'm going to do something that you could never do
Picard: And what's that Commander
Sisko: I'm going to punch Q
Ask much as I love this scene, I also wish that later in the series there had been another meeting between Sisko and Picard. In my mind at least, bar looking at Picard's personal struggle with his actions at Wolf 359 in First Contact, the impact on Starfleet of having a paragon like Jean-Luc Picard turn traitor (albeit against his will) is never really dealt with and I feel that was a missed opportunity. An arc (even if it was just an episode long) with Sisko and Picard finding resolution over their shared traumas could have been both thought provoking and a really good exploration at how two very different characters both have their place as captains and leaders in Starfleet.
There is a brief 2nd scene at the end of Emissary Part 2. They come to a sort of understanding between the 2.