Kosas also does this, thank goodness. Because the models in the photos hardly EVER match the descriptions and the photos of the shades are usually totally inaccurate. So confusing!!! This is why swatch videos from HLP and other folks with similar undertones/saturation are so golden.
Or better yet… buy them for… let’s say $10-20 and get a coupon to use for use on a full size base. (You’d obviously take the risk of losing that initial investment… if none of the samples work for you… but it’s better than losing $40+ or having to bother to return and try again.)
My suggestion as a fragrance lover is that more brands offer smaller and travel-size bottles. I like travel sizes because I feel like it's less of a risk to blind buy, but also 95% of my collection fits in one makeup bag instead of taking up a whole shelf or closet. I think especially with the looming/current recession many consumers straight up just don't have the money for large bottles of perfume in general, and even if they might they probably are not willing to drop $200+ on something that they can't even try. I think smaller packaging in general for lower prices would be cool in all of beauty. It's pretty rare that people finish a whole lip product, foundation, or mascara, and you end up paying a higher price only for half of what you bought to go bad.
Hi Isa HLP mentioned in another recent vid that she used to buy her fave high-cost fragrances from a company that packaged them in the fragrance sample bottles you can get - might be of interest to you! Also, I recently emptied one of these sample bottles of a fragrance I didn’t like, and then spritzed my own fave fragrance into the empty bottle. And for once, I had my fragrance with me on hols without lugging the big, nearly full (so fairly weighty) bottle with me 🤩 I was chuffed!
As someone who travels around between countries several times a year I am 100% here for this. My favorite products have been travel sizes, not only can I take all of my makeup and skincare when it's travel sized but I also get through the products before they expire which is HUGE!
My problem is how much more expensive minis are for how much product you get. Most of the time I end up talking myself into spending for the larger one only because if I’m going to use it and like it it’s more cost efficient. But if I’m really not sure about the product I’ll suck it up and buy a mini just to avoid product waste.
The saturation issue is WHY I'm not into makeup -- it's impossible (or feels like it) to find a complexion product that doesn't make me feel like a clown or an oompa loompa
@@yessiyessica exactly. Me too. I just either color correct or spot conceal. Foundation always looks like a mask on my skin. I'm light-medium with cool undertones. That's hard enough with shades being straight pink on my skin.
@@helgaserge7152 If @ElevenChrysathemums 's skin is as pale & desaturated as mine, Fenty & Smashbox foundations (& practically every other brand on the planet) will be too dark &/or saturated for them.
It is wild to me that no one else talks about saturation/desaturation. I have neutral undertones and I feel like I have to choose a bright pink or yellow leaning neutral and neither one is my skin tone. When I look at your muted chart I do see my skin tone.
YES I'm pale and because everything is so saturated on me, it always looks darker, so my makeup actually makes me look duller and less youthful a lot of the time!
Until I discovered colour mixers (blue and green specifically) a few years ago in my late 30s, I had just entirely given up on foundation after spending my entire adult life being called "cool" and directed to the pink-toned foundations by SAs. Everything was either too pink or too orange, literally nothing worked until mixers. I agree that it is WILD that brands don't seem to be on to saturation yet because it fully has nothing to do with depth and anyone, anywhere on the light to dark spectrum, can be more or less saturated. (and yes, I am olive, which in itself is nuts because I was told SO many times that you can't be on either end of the fair/deep spectrum and be olive, it's only people in the middle. again: just not true at all). Not all fair people are pink and not all deep people are red and I have no idea why this actual reality that you can see with your eyeballs every day still hasn't made much of a dent in an industry that literally exists to match their product to human skin tones.
Hi! Packaging designer here, not cosmetic industry but not far off. I wanted to offer my perspective on your last segment: All printing is still way cheaper than the development process needed for custom molded parts. Most affordable brands are likely selecting components from the styles a manufacturer already has in production. This drives brands to use bright printing as the easiest way to differentiate. Particularly at lower price points, without luxury shopping perks like sales associates and samples, the goal is to be recognised and remembered more than it is to be attractive once purchased. Bold printing may also be to ensure the product is distinct when they're using the same component elsewhere. The garish packaging showing up more in expensive brands may have more to do with an (often misguided) attempt to be remembered in an oversaturated mid-price market. One successful counter-example: elf is extremely affordable. I've always loved their practical, sleek, minimalist packaging. They've nailed a brand identity suitable for packaging that is both affordable and minimal. I bristled a little at the designer comment, no harm done, I get where you're coming from. However, I've found it requires more skill, more creative labor, and more upfront investment to maintain a cohesive minimalist brand identity across a large product line than it does to apply inconsistent bright graphics to each new launch. elf probably invested a lot of money earlier on to establish their look, and they put a lot of money into their other marketing. Tl;dr The cost of printing, no matter the graphic, is a drop in the bucket next to the other expenses of manufacturing and overall brand development.
Idk about lighter toned people, but this is something that those of us with darker skintones have been talking about since like forever. The lack of nuance in undertones for deep skin and the over saturation of red, orange, and yellow that you find typically in a deep range. The same reason darker skintones don’t get the. More neutral, kinds of blushes or bronzers. It’s always like red, or purple and very few pretty neutral blushes. For example Ami Cole blush in Dune, Mac Razin, Phytosurgence Exothermic and Sublimate, Salt New York Cocoa and Sunburnt. I am a medium deep warm olive and it is damn near impossible to find a shade of foundation that works for me. I also find that color correctors for deeper skin are sometimes too saturated. Like I would like a slightly more toned down orange. Like where are the deep neutral one and done eyeshadows? Deeper taupes? It’s so hard to find something flattering for my skintone range.
Yes! This exactly. I am also in the tan/med deep category with a golden olive undertone, but it's hard enough finding olive undertones at all, let alone desaturated ones. Everything still looks orange and pink. I do love Ami Colĕ's blush in dune 🖤
Maybe it has to do with the whole ideology that bronzing and "healthy" skin meant for the industry, most skin products were designed to make everyone.. despite the different undertones, look vibrant and healthy. So grey undertones and ashiness became undesirable. Nowdays more people understand that some people might simply have naturally duller skintones that require different underrones of the ususal pink-orange-yellow.
Yes… because white can do a lot of work in making a mixture less bright. I am medium dark and I’ve given up on finding complexion products altogether. Not an excuse, but I do think that part of it is that the more pigments that you mix together, the less reproducible the mixture is. Even if you say “1 tbsp yellow, 2 tsp red, 1/4 tsp blue, 2 tbsp white” in the foundation kitchen each of those steps is another chance for the batch to be a little “off” and introduce some more error. And it’s easier for makeup brands to make the same unrealistic orange again and again than make a slightly different naturalistic color every time.
Current foundations and concealers are all made with four types of pigments: pigmentary titanium dioxide, yellow/red/black iron oxides. The first one is not really pigmented at all while the black is very potent, so it is difficult to add grey with them without creating super high coverage. So I think what brands would need to try is add green or blue pigments to cancel the yellow and red iron oxides which provide that strong colour. I've made foundations in a lab before and so I think this would be the way to achieve desaturated foundations/concealers. The only challenge is cost, the more desaturated shades will be more expensive to make because green and blue pigments are more expensive.
oh man- I never thought about the properties of the actual tinting substances as a factor, thats fascinating. Its kind of easy to assume that its all just magic and every colour is the same. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for your insight. I figure there are several elements of expense and overhead to 75+ premade (not mixed to order after a sample card) colour shade ranges. I try to stay conscious of my expectations of business overhead and risk. I prefer to focus on financially feasible and profitable expectations from independent brands like Salt, Axiology, Rituel de fille. Bare Minerals has a great range and ethical pigments for a larger brand.
I have two theories on the minimalist packaging thing. 1) A lot of drugstore brands are owned by parent companies who also own luxury brands so it's in their interest to differentiate drugstore from luxury. They don't want their luxury customers moving to drugstore. 2) There's a constant cycle of drugstore brands adopting luxury packaging and luxury brands updating to stay ahead of them. The drugstore brands don't catch up because it's expensive to redesign their packaging (even if the new packaging is actually cheaper, there's a lot involved in updating their supply chain).
L'Oréal (parent brand; drugstore) owns Maybelline (drugstore), Lancôme (high end to luxury), shu uemura (high end), NYX (drugstore), Urban Decay (high end), CeraVe (drugstore), Youth to the People (high end), YSL (luxury), and a buttload of other beauty brands at various price points. Bourjois (drugstore in UK and Canada), last I knew, still owns Chanel (luxury). Estée Lauder owns mainly other high end and luxury brands (MAC, Clinique, Too Faced, Smashbox, bumble & bumble, Tom Ford, it used to own Becca before they folded, among others). The only budget brand they have any money in is The Ordinary, and all those products have long been in minimalist packaging. And I think pretty much every brand owned by LVMH is a high end or luxury brand (e.g., Fenty, KVD, used to own Marc Jacobs before it folded). Shiseido owns NARS and some Japanese drugstore or budget brands. Every brand has their own aesthetics, but I'm not sure if the parent companies have anything to do with that.
From designer stand point. In the amount of products, that's being produced/selled the expenses for actually designing is very very little. Maybe more expensive part is the general testing of the packaging and then with selected groups (large companies do that, I think Kellogs were one of them). Also, the examples of minimalistic pack, that was shown in a video, it could be that the packaging is custom-made. Everything custom made is more expensive. Like the actual fonts and inks cost less than the molds they have to make for the pack (the supply chain part). The funny part is, if the pack is commonly used (the shape) anywhing minimalistic will look plain or empty. Minimalistic design can be quite hard to achieve, because all proportions have to be just right and somehow not boring.
I was coming here to say exactly this. The larger conglomerates really don't have any reason to make a cheap product look more luxury than it is, because it could bite into their luxury market. And luxury customers are often influenced by packaging that's well designed, heavy, feels "luxe", or modern. (Judging by my own tastes when I splurge and a million beauty youtubers.) The best thing is to find a knowledgeable drugstore employee who can tell you what the dupes are.... I've had that happen with shampoos once, it was pretty cool!
I learned in art school that minimalism is actually really difficult to do well because everything has to be PERFECT. So I feel like the designers would actually have to be paid even more because they’d have to spend more time on it. I personally like a really decorative piece (think Florasis, Zeesea, or the Gucci lipsticks in the metal tubes.) I like my makeup to look vintage and interesting and cohesive on the vanity, like an antique store. A little box of makeup bonbons.
Elf was my first thought. I think for the most part, they are the least “busy” looking of all the other brands. Neutrogena almost hits the mark, but has too much writing all over it.
Yes, 100% this! There is SUCH a need for desaturation of complexion products in shade ranges. We've finally begun to make a full shade range in terms of value (light to dark) the norm, now we need to examine saturation across the range. I reckon a 'muted warm' crossed with 'muted olive' would be my perfect shade match, but this can't be created by mixing a standard warm with standard olive because there's nothing to remove some of the intensity of that pigment. I'm so glad you've spotted this too!
I worked at a print store for about a year (we did things for a large amount of businesses and often outsourced things when needed). I have learned that printing onto something, whether it be 2 colors or 40, costs the same when you are using the same surface area. HOWEVER, black and white ink costs pennies. Not only that, but single color plastics cost even less. Minimalist packaging is chump change compared to intricate, eye catching containers
😮 Oh, wow, to the saturation part. I think I have just learned something about my skin. I have concealer that works perfect in the Sommer, but in winter, it's way too bright (like too much color) even tho the shade (and undertone) are ok. I just did a quick Google search and found an article about 'black skin desaturating in winter'. And when you showed the graphics, I saw myself in the muted range of the deep desatured tones. Thanks for including the graphics, because it's sometimes hard to follow your explanations when one has medium to dark skin. This was super helpful and interesting. Something I'll definitely look more into it. But unfortunately, I've never really came across somebody else talking about this.
My sister and I, as fellow very pale individuals, have been screaming about foundations not being grey enough for a very long time, too! I feel as if problems with tone appear so potent for the very fair partly because we have so little base pigment in our skin that it takes a lower proportion to overpower us and make us look like an Oompa Loompa or as though we used calamine lotion for foundation. SOMEDAY OUR PRINCE WILL COME!
Yes, yes, and yes!! A grey base definitely evens out the red. Everything is yellow, Don't have a yellow neck or chest. I am fair in all of those areas.
Omg THANK YOU for saying this. I commented on a makeup group once that I needed a more grey undertone because my skin is so pale and everyone laughed and told me there was no such thing as a gray undertone. I got a "light ivory" foundation that I swear was bright orange on me because online shade matching is just not it.
I could never find a shade match until I found the CYO foundation in shade 101, which is desaturated! The other perfect match for me in terms of saturation is the Purito BB cream, but much too dark so I mix it with a lightening drop and it’s perfect.
Just a thought, have you looked into K beauty? Micha BB cream. I think it was shade 23. But that might be too deep for you, but it was SUPER gray when I tried it a few years ago. Not pink enough for me sadly.
And this is why cosmetics is a Billion $$$ business! We keep buying, trying, buying some more and throwing stuff out. And don't get me started on lighting in the stores! Built in failure! Your comments are spot on. Agree 100%.
I have no understanding of colour theory, but you finally made it click why I can't find foundation that works for me. I am extremely pale, and foundation is either too pink or too yellow. I've never heard anyone mention the saturation of foundation before, and it explains my struggle!
my frustration has always been with finding the right shades for foundation and concealer across different brands. i wish there was a way in which we could force them to use a standardized palette of shades, like a Pantone situation, but exclusively for skin tones, and all brands had to formulate a selection of those shades. I'm sure there's many problems with this idea, but i find myself attracted to standardization in this area of the makeup sphere
Omygoodness yes please Like I’m a size US 7 wide shoe and if I buy from a random brand online, the pair that arrives will likely fit perfectly Why can we do this with foundations or even hair dyes 🥲😫
The de-saturation of foundations is exactly why I decided to invest in Salt New York creams, I mixed my perfect foundation colour with the white and N13 and a little bit of yellow+blue to really make it olive and it came out PERFECT. I also mixed a few blush colours and emptied out a really disappointing gucci compact (it was the facial setting powder compact for those wondering) and filled it with my custom blushes! Now I get to enjoy the compact daily and have the blush of my dreams all in one. I never would have tried SNY if you hadn't made that super in-depth video mixing the colours together, it just sparked something in me that was like OH THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE! Maybe its because I paint frequently so it seemed right at home doing it for my painting canvas and for my facial canvas!
I wish more companies thought about accessibility when it also comes to their packaging design. Certain things I purchased I cannot open because the packaging is so hard to work with.
This!! Not even disabled, but I constantly have acrylic nails that aren’t even that long. And there are so many packages you literally have to stick and nail into the latch to get it to pop open. I end up using tweezers or scissors half the time. I wonder how many people with simple disorders in fine motor skills just DONT buy products because they’re too hard to open.
I wholeheartedly agree with what you said about desaturation. Especially in deeper tones, I've noticed that the shades are often extremely yellow, orange or even red. So when I work on clients with deeper skin tones, I always have to add a bunch of blue to the mix to tone down the shades. And I also agree about the minimalist packaging.
I feel like the warmth/ yellow tones in foundation shades developed because people wanted to look tanner - match their foundation with their ‘tan’ skin and have sun kissed glow year round! And then for people who then found the yellows too yellow, they developed a sister line that skews in the opposite direction: rosy red. And then later, comes neutral. These days people want the most natural coverage and, so it goes, true skin match. Truth is most people have pretty desaturated skin with a mix of tones that might gently skew to one tone or another but nil so severe as to be so saturated. I used to really scratch my head with how foundation shades could get darker or yellower but still not my colour - as someone with medium skin tone who never goes in the sun, I determined no one comprehends the idea that someone can be as deep in colour as me but also as pale / washed out as me. That’s my 2 cents. 😅
You’re so right, I mix green with everything. The Lisa Eldridge 9.5 true olive foundation shade is my best match and the fact that I can use it without mixing is amazing. She has a few new olive shades which are desaturated actually, even in the lighter side of the spectrum. Awesome ideas !
I’ve been eying the Lisa Eldridge foundations too. Im so happy she’s included paler olive toned foundations. I also like the new Fenty 225 olive shade, but it’s too dark for me in Winter. Also, full coverage + matte is not really my thing. I’d love it if their ease drop tint had olive shades. Glad to see they’re trying with the foundation shades.
for minimalist packaging it can definitely be less expensive, but also i think with cheaper components minimalist design can feel cheap too. Elf is a good example imo, sometimes their minimal packaging works and sometimes it just feels cheap and unfinished. not quite sure how do describe it. ive seen more brands in target recently taking on a more minimalist, millenial, direct-to-consumer type branding. so I think the minimal packaging is coming, slowly but surely. The cheapest drugstore brands dont seem to care as much about hiring good designers to make things feel elevated because that would cost money. anyways, im a packaging designer for skincare and beauty so this tyoe of discussion fascinates me!
I think elf wouldn't look so cheap if the plastic was matte, and if they didn't have black lettering on light background. Solid matte pastel colors with white lettering is maybe overdone but imo still looks better than the shiny high-contrast drugstore stuff. You could even have an all-over floral pattern, but keep the contrast down. Our eyes naturally turn to shiny high-contrast objects in our environment, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they sell better!
Years ago when e.l.f. had three branches of their brand (the basic line where everything was $1, the Studio line where everything was $3, and the Mineral line where everything was $5), I thought the Studio line's packaging was great (black packaging, white text - very reminiscent of NARS).
One of the reasons I LOVE the look of the handful of Japanese and Korean BB/CC creams I've tried is because of this very thing -- they're NEUTRAL. Like the first time I squeezed a sample out onto my hand, it was "whaaaat, this is not face makeup, this is pale khaki-grey?!" AND THEY LOOK AMAZING. Unfortunately I can't wear them, because the overwhelming majority contain a ton of cyclomethicone/cyclopentasiloxane, or stearic/palmitic/myristic acids, all of which are a guaranteed cystic-breakout generator for me. HARD AGREE, more brands should take this concept and run with it. I mean, I LOVE color, but I save it for eyes and lips and cheek...not interested in painting my whole face orange, thx.
@@maggierobertson2962 Oh def. I think the widest color range I've ever seen was ... three shades? Granted, that's a bb/cc and not a true full-coverage foundation, but still!
Remember that a lot of drugstore brands and luxe brands are children of the same parent company. Certain things don't happen in drugstore makeup because they can hurt high end. These companies are true competitors, tho, they don't share in each other's profits - I assume someone from the big daddy company puts the kibosh on certain things and that there are unwritten rules. Obviously, it's ideal to get as many customers as possible at all price points, but you can see that drugstore typically cooperates with the pricing ranges set by luxe brands. The manufacturing costs are likely very similar.
You have to try the elf colour corrector in blue! I was baffled by the effects it has on my „to yellow/orange“ foundations. Sure, i knew yellow + blue = green but seeing it play out how i can manipulate a otherwise unused foundation with a tiny bit of blue in something „more grey/olive or neutral“ was fun.
Ugh, I feel everything you said about saturation. When I mixed my own foundation shade, I put in lots of complementary colors in order to mute out the actual color and I was able to create a PERFECT match myself. Neutral shades are usually muted shades. But the industry doesn't seem to think of that... My skintone consists of an olive undertone with yellow overtones, but it's not bright or clear, it's muted. Doesn't matter if I'm winter pale or summer tanned, it will gain a bit of saturation when tanned, but not intensely. So yeah, that might be the best advice and the most important to actually listen to in terms of the creation of a range of foundation shades that actually work for everyone. We're not all bright/clear in coloring... shouldn't a make up lab know about color theory to an extent that makes it easy to understand this? I remember I used to grab the lightest foundation shades possible when I was younger. They were way too light, but the darker ones were either too orange or too yellow or too pink. Nowadays I buy "neutral" shades and use a foundation that has only light coverage in order to make it work... I mean it's great I know my exact skintone and undertone but doesn't change anything if there's basically NO matching foundation shade, right? 🤔
This comment reminds me that skin is translucent, and I really wish that the pigments in foundation could form a washy glaze. It'd look so much more natural than a flat pancake of color. Also reminds me that there seem to be be at least two different olive hues: a yellow olive and a red olive. I notice that a lot of Indian makeup lovers describe themselves as olive, and it really is different from the red/purple hues we see from other ethnic backgrounds. Melanin is soooo much more complicated than "present/not present"!
In Canada we have a drugstore brand called Quo that relatively recently (around 2019) redesigned their entire brand to look like that really pretty minimalist packaging you were talking about! They also have a lot of desaturated colours!! I use one of their single shadows as a grey toned contour. Since I moved to LA I’ve missed Quo every day Love to hear your thoughts one day💗
Thanks for talking color; it’s my favorite aspect of makeup reviews! I suspect a lot of the problem is that we’re never given specific language to talk about color: saturation, chroma, hue, value. We see it and know it, but we end up asking for a lighter or darker match, when it isn’t the whole story. The more articulate consumers can be about what they need the better. Given that I’m a light olive person, I’ve got skin the game. I also really appreciate when you get a little on a desaturated soap box. I feel seen. Thanks!
When I found my first bb cream that ended up being grayish, I fell in love. It was by Dr Jart and was considered their light shade. Well, everyone complained, and they reformulated it. Of course they did!! Left out again. Gonna try mixing my green color corrector next. The search continues...
Purrito Clearing BB Cream also leans grey, too. Terrible shade range so you def need a light-med skin tone to make it work. But I love it and even mix it in with other foundations to make them more neutral.
Exactly. I was thinking e.l f. when Hannah was going over this point. That company has absolutely exploded since it entered the market and started with very minimalistic $1 USD items.
i think desaturation should be carried over into blush and lip products. Sometimes we want contrast and color is secondary. I had an old fav blush that looked like nothing in the pan but it just did something. Product: I was using a pointy brow liquid pencil to make subtle digits under my eyes where lower eyelashes are supposed to be, but it ran, then I found Freckles. Now I need a larger shade range.
This reminds me: I need a blush release to come in "pigmented" vs. "tinted" versions, of every color. Lots of folks will love a color but the pigment percentage is either too high or too low to look good/show up on their personal skin tone!
I’m challenged in the eyebrow department and appreciate what you’re saying about introducing more of a dyeing effect in a brow product. I wonder if the staining potential of natural pigments would be something to consider. I’m seeing what the brand 100% Pure has achieved with fruit pigments, and a “staining” brow gel is something I would love to see in their line. Great idea, Hannah!
Like Overtone for brows, mixed into brow gel. That sure sounds like it should be doable! (I don't know enough about this to know if one should not, in fact, just apply Overtone with a spoolie 15 minutes before getting in the shower, but also that wouldn't be in one's normal product application)
All of these are YES 🙌🏻 I gave up on foundation ages ago because every colour just looked so over saturated on me, especially once it oxidized a little bit. And as a light blond eyebrow gal, the tinted gel/wax/pomade would change the game.
I'm waiting for makeup stores to have a machine that scans your skin and automatically mixes a foundation customized for you - come on technology! We can 3D print but can't customize foundation?
Yeah, Prescriptives is the only brand I know of that did this, but it was guided bh the person behind the counter, & wasn't a fully computerized process. There have been other brands that have boasted of their custom foundations, when 1)they weren't available at all of their counters & 2)they only mixed together existing shades in their line. Prescriptives actually started from scratch, & used powder pigments.
Lancôme (a L'Oréal brand) tried it, but it was literally a combo of white, yellow, peach, and flat brown pigments. No options for green, blue, or purple tints found in so many skin colors. 🙃
Yes, please to all the ideas. Especially, desaturated shades. Watching your channel really clarified the idea that not only did I need foundation that was desaturated, I really liked eyeshadow and blush colours that were murkier and more subtle than what is normally offered. You need to be in charge of the R and D of a cosmetics company. Preferably your own. I would love to buy HLP Beauty. ❤❤❤
there's a polish drugstore brand (eveline cosmetics) that makes this kind of gradually tinting brow gel. and it works nicely, so the idea is certainly possible to implement!
on minimalist packaging -- i totally agree. i buy pretty cheap k-beauty makeup but it feels super lux to me because of the minimalist aesthetic in the packaging.
I’m LOVING the idea of pushing more minimal packaging at the drugstore. I’ve been rebuilding a very small makeup kit as I’ve begun wearing it again and a huge draw for me is nice aesthetic minimal packaging for very well performing affordable products. I have purchased several elf products because of this and am quick to toss an item off my possible purchase list if the packaging doesn’t meet up with what I like. It may seem petty but I really want to enjoy looking at the products I buy just as much as I enjoy using them
I’ve always felt that brands would benefit from launching a new product in a full size and mini size at the same time. If you stand by your product, then people buying the mini will eventually result in wanting the full size
As a graphic designer I can tell you that minimalism isn’t cheaper. It’s perhaps a bit counterintuitive, but there is a corollary in writing. It’s much faster to do a “brain dump” while writing than it is to take that brain dump and edit and hone it down to its essential elements and create a streamlined and clear point of view. The same is true of design, especially when you bring in all the stakeholders and their varied opinions. Staying true to minimalism requires convincing others it is the right thing to do. It also requires a more experience designer who knows how to use limited tools (color, shape, typefaces) to create a distinct impression. Where a less experienced designer will use all the typefaces, all the color, all the shapes, to make their impression. And good maximalism is just as hard to pull off as good minimalism.
I wonder if the brow tint hasn't been done because of the need for a dye that is safe to use around the eye area daily? I think it's a cool idea. An at home daily eyelash tint would be amazing as well.
Saturation is a foundational component of color theory, and I am shocked that experts and designers have yet to apply such a basic concept! You would think it would be more obvious if you were trained in color somehow. As a muted olive I have been yearning for this and have wasted so much money trying to find a close match over the years 😭
First to comment!!! Hannah! I love your videos, your vibe and everything you do! You have helped me overcome my addiction to shopping and other stuff as well. Thanks!! xoxo from Mexico City!
I watch all of your videos now. And I appreciate how creative you are with the wide range of video topics you do while keeping them in the wheelhouse of what your channel is about. Since I’m not watching for a potential shopping list, I love that that’s not all you create. ♥️♥️♥️
I was on a panel at a convention talking about makeup for deeper skin tones and one of the undertones I mentioned was 'greige'. That we knew about cools, warms, goldens and olives but that deeper (and every other) skintones could fall under the 'greige' undertone where EVERY foundation or product feels too pigmented. Desaturated is a much, much better description for that less saturated under and overtone. Thank you for this VERY informative and better worded breakdown of that idea. Also I think the Morphe 100 shade foundations range a few years back, tried to have some of those less saturated ranges and got eaten alive because some folks grabbed a shade that read grey and green on their skin tones while others were thrilled to finally find their color. Shame that. A whole foundation line possibly called Wisp or something (since Desaturated feels a little off putting for a whole line since makeup consumers have been trained to look for 'pigmented' as a sign of quality) could do really well? Sadly Tinted has been claimed as a brand name. Personally, I'd like makeup brands to make smaller sizes of their products... This isn't the 1990s where we had 4-5 major makeup lines and one palette would last from highschool to the retirement home. Given the frequency of new makeup releases, launches, brand arrivals and declines....smaller packaging could help us actually USE UP what we buy faster vs it expiring and we feel like we wasted money. Like the CP highlighter pans are HUGE. I could cover my whole body 100x over with one SOL highlighter and still have some to spare. The size of some products make it next to impossible to pan.
To me, minimalist packaging doesn’t always make something feel more luxe or expensive. A lot of my favorite packaging isn’t minimalist - Kaleidos, Girlcult, Flower Knows, Anna Sui, Narimi Z, Odens Eye, etc. I often feel somewhat bored by how many brands (in many industries) are going so minimalist lately.
I feel this. I keep things like my Kaleidos palettes out on my vanity because they're beautiful, and because creating them involved artistry and conceptualization. My products in minimalist packaging live in a drawer, not because they're ugly, but because there's nothing enjoyable about looking at them. And if they live in a drawer, am I really getting the full high-end experience out of them?
Oh. My. Gosh. Here's how I feel about the entire conversation about saturation and color correctors and the illustrations you put up...💡🤯...NOW I get it! That makes so much sense!!!! I have been on a journey to figure out my tone and undertone and how that plays into my clothes and makeup. And I feel like with my makeup I kind of hit a bit of a road block and I have been so confused but now I get it. I am a DESATURATED warm tone! 👏 I just love your videos. You're seriously awesome.
Thank you for the saturation rant 😭 When I look in the mirror, my skin is the color of a white piece of paper but if you added grey and green to it LMAOOO so everythingggg is too saturated on me! That why I like powder foundations - for some reason cream and liquid products are even more saturated!
When artists mix colours to paint skin there’s always green in it. Desaturation is achieved by adding colours from the opposite side of the colour wheel, not grey. The effect will be a greyed down one however!
I’m still using the gray purito foundation (the one you shared ages ago) mixed with my super fair concealer and a liiiittle green color corrected I’m allllmost able to match my color! As a fellow pale-ass green lady, I feel the struggle!
I completely agree with the saturation approach! I am extremely fair, and even if the lightest color is "light" enough for me, it is more often than not way too saturated for my skin and looks extremely off. It’s why I basically only use my concealer as a multi use product because I’ve found it’s great for my skin tone while it’s extremely hard for me to find a foundation that offers the same "saturation" level.
@@AnneOnymaus for me the makeup forever hd concealer has a shade that suits my skin tone best. I wish it had slightly more coverage though sometimes but I guess I can’t be too picky when the color is right. Rare beauty’s concealer also has a pretty good match for me but it’s a similar issue of wishing it had just a Tad more coverage.
Yes on neutral desaturation! FINALLY found a color for me in Salt New York, but I wish I could find the same color in a satin/natural finish, low-med coverage
I have light skin with muted warm olive undertones.I look grey-green hen I'm not in the sun much and get more gold when I'm in it.I spend most of my time in windowless/blackout curtain rooms to the point that my doctor has prescribed me a few days a week where I have to get sun. My skin and lips bring out the underlying tones of products. These leads to mauves looking purple,pink based reds looking fuschia and complexion products looking like a bright pastel pink/peach/yellow.Olive undertones aren't well catered to and I've had people say "You can't be olive you are pale" to my face.
The saturation thing is real- but as a freckle owner, using SHEER base products is where the magic is. So, the desaturation might be important for folks who want full coverage in their saturation level, but I personally love to mix foundation with moisturizer or spf to get a sheer layer of color- transparent enough to see my face, but colored enough to even things out. I’m loving also the sheer tint cerave hydrating spf. That’s a dreamy product right there and more brands should make products like that! It’s two steps in one, it blends flawlessly plus spf 50.
We need brands to recognize your work and all the value you're already providing to them, Hannah! I'd love to see you working behind the scenes in an actually huge beauty brand! ❤
Also YES to the desaturation idea. I often end up going neutral because my redhead undertones make it tough to match, but even that’s still sometimes off somehow. Your muted/saturated chart is brilliant.
I'm sure the brow tint semi permanent gel thing HAS to be possible. The amount of staining I get on my hair from blue shampoo which is meant to be washed out is crazy....I think the desaturated pigment offerings would also be super helpful for people like me, with a neutral undertone with a lot of redness in my skin. I would like to have a small amount of desaturated yellow to take down some of the red in my skin rather than having to mess with color corrector...The worst packaging in the whole beauty realm is Paula's Choice. They went with minimalism, but then they've changed it like three times. I have so many of their products and they all have a different design it's like you wouldn't even know it was the same company. I don't care what they do as long as it's consistent you know...
And if they make color depositing conditioners to keep bright colored hair from fading, then they should be able to do this easily, but maybe the hold & the dye might not work together
@Cinema OCD I see your point about Paula's Choice & I agree their products don't look the best, but I don't care: it's only what's inside them that matters to me. It wouldn't worry me if every product in the world came in plain packaging, especially if that could help to keep prices lower.
100% on the saturation point! That’s why so many skin depths can use a single olive foundation or concealer. The depth can be more flexible because the undertone and saturation is so on point. I think for example if koh gen do made three more olive foundations like 213 they would easily become popular with us green girls lol
When discussing complexion products I tell ppl I’m an actual lizard person 🦎 bc of how MUCH green I’ve had to mix into my foundation and concealer bottles A RUclipsr Nikki Raven describes herself as Slightly Orcish 😂 We’re all Fiona from the Shrek movies!
I just need to thank you for articulating my problem with cosmetic shades for my skin tone that I always tried to understand but never pinpointed. I’m an olive complexion varying from light medium to tan but my only understanding of my undertone was that olive leaned grey. When I learned that I was able to gravitate toward grey leaning products (limited in production) I began to assume I’m a cool toned olive. Cool in complexion products means red, though, not grey… I was stuck. I also had this thought in my mind about the saturation of colors in my clothing that work for me, with muted being ideal, but I didn’t have the words to explain it. I never connected muted with grey scale until you demonstrated desaturating a color photo to black and white. It now seems so simple to understand, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know until you. Thank you, so, so much 😊
Design that is simple, elegant, and expensive-feeling takes a lot more time to finesse and perfect, therefore it will always cost more. The “over-designed” products you referenced are actually rushed and I doubt they iterated more than once. You always start out with a lot of ideas (naturally, as a designer). The skill comes in when you edit :) speaking as a product designer with over a decade of experience.
DESATURATE! ❤ i am another one of those who have given up on foundation entirely. I use a green primer all over and then i'm done. Pleeeaaase beauty brands HLP knows!!!
Hannah- you may have manifested the brow thing into my existence. Hours after watching this I went to a drugstore that I don't usually go to and BEHOLD! A new product- Revlon Colorstay SEMI-PERMANENT BROW INK. I tried it once yesterday- the look is interesting, a little bit of sheen? Weird but it looks okay, kinda like a laminated brow appearance. Can't speak to the tinting yet as it's supposed to build up over a few days. It doesn't seem to have stained the skin at all, which is good, and the hairs might be slightly stained after one use. Anyway, pretty crazy that I'd never seen a product like this until you invented it in this video
Hannah, this was ingenius! I honestly think it's so difficult to come up with anything not already invented! My idea would be something technology wise, like being able to swatch your foundation from at home on your hand and go to the shops and then all the foundations would light up with the exact match for you from each brand if you activated that feature
I think we should all agree that if a brand does any of Hannah's ideas, that we demand they give her credit, and send them this video. 😉 Also, I agree about the saturation problem. I think I am a "soft summer"- basically I am a cool pink toned person, my coloring is very soft. I tend to prefer powder foundation, so I usually can get that softer tint, but even some powder foundations can be too saturated. I have one I kinda use like a bronzer sometimes. I don't use bronzer- my coloring doesn't do well with it- but a pink powder foundation does what bronzers does for others.
I love the saturation idea! You explained this so perfectly; I often have trouble explaining this to people. Using the example of a turning the dial on a black and white photo makes it very easy to understand
Taking into consideration skin undertones when making "neutral" eyeshadows. Hear me out. I have been on the HUNT for a neutral brown eyeshadow but everything turns out either orange or grey on my skin. So that whole point about foundation colour, but for eyeshadows.
IDK if they're in your budget, but NARS single shadows come in some beautiful neutral & cool-neutral shades. "Blondie", "Bali", "Kingston", "Bengali" & "Coconut Grove", are all neutral & less-saturated matte taupes & browns. Unlike most other brands, their warm-neutral shades, like "Tulum", tend to skew more golden or rosy, & not orange. I also love that their packaging is magnetic, so you can take them out their compacts & assemble them in a magnetic palette. The pans for their duos are also magnetic & the same size as the singles, so you can mix & match them. The only downsides to the NARS shadows are their price, the fact that NARS doesn't often restock the singles on their site, & that they've been discontinuing shades w/out adding in new ones. IDK if they're just scaling back their selection, getting ready to reformulate/repackage, or phasing out their singles & duos🥺. I slowly added to my collection over time, & bought the majority of them discounted, either from department stores, or on the secondary market. All of their formulas (matte, satin, metallic, & hardwired) are excellent. Alternatively, you can't go wrong w/Natasha Denona's "Glam" palette, & Bobbi Brown also has a beautiful selection of neutral shadows. If you don't mind shopping indie, Sydney Grace has an amazing selection of neutral, cool-neutral, & earth-toned shadows. They actually have a small selection of truly warm shadows in their line. Their quality is impeccable, & on par w/or better than most high end & luxury shadows. They have sales every Black Friday & Christmas in July, as well as a few randomly throughout the year. If you want any recommendations, I would be happy to help...
You could probably deposit color (not bleach) over time, but you do need to open the hair follicle with developer for meaningful results. I'd be I'd be concerned that doing this on a daily basis could damage the hair, but to your point if this was only intending to deposit small amounts of color over time that may not happen. My bigger concern though would be that the hair dye for eyebrows would end up leaving dye marks on the skin. Even if you kept it only on the brow area, imagine the blockiness of the look if your skin under the brows was all dyed.
i'm hoping that the recent surge of interest in seasonal color theory on western social media will raise awareness about mute tones. korean makeup brands have been coming out with tons of mute tone color products (and explicitly marketing them as such) for a while now. right now almost all of my makeup is from korea because of this, but i would love to have more options locally. unfortunately korean base makeup still isn't quite as mute tone friendly imo, though there are a few brands that have decent options. authentic bb creams (the ones used at dermatology/esthetic clinics for masking redness and blemishes) also tend to be pretty muted. i really want to try the phymongshe bb cream as it looks super grey & is popular with makeup artists... but it's ~$60 😭 for now the $20 cell fusion c blemish balm has been working pretty well on my (pale olive) skin
Your thoughts about sleekifying drugstore-level makeup packaging : oh my god yes. The pros of going with something both simpler and more artful (and with higher-quality less-breakable materials) definitely outweigh any potential downside re: "oh people will mistake this for expensive stuff and won't look at it." If you're in a drugstore or the "drugstore" section of an Ulta, you already have an expectation for the price points you're going to see -- you KNOW that everything in that area will be pretty affordable. The flip side is that people who're passionate about makeup AND about aesthetics [raises hand] will pass your stuff up if it looks cheap and generic, but might give it a chance if it appears "worthy" of inclusion on their vanity. I mean, arty stuff is a big part of my job and a big part of my life in general, so yeah, I 1000% make purchasing decisions based in part on what the packaging looks like. It's why I shell out for Carolina Herrera and Givenchy lipsticks (gorgeous) and why I pass up 99% of L'Oreal and Revlon (fug) (okay also because they usually smell like a cake frosted with industrial chemicals) even though they make some nice products. Good design -- attractive + functional + durable -- does not have to be expensive! And at the SCALE they're manufacturing? They can def afford it. (Btw, Moira is a fairly good example of inexpensive makeup in packaging that's well-made, attractive, interesting, but not overly fussy or tacky.) (Also their Lucent cream shadows are LEGIT.)
Youre 100% right about buying a "feeling" not just a product. I think brands need the drugstore/high end distinction because they're marketing to separate markets with different types of consumers. If they tried to market to other markets within the same brand, they would offend their loyal customer base and lose money. That's part of why brands use subsidiaries so they can have distinct separate brands and still get money from both market segments e.g. Esté Lauder and L'Oreal Paris. Also, yes, your ideas are definitely worth millions of dollars, keep them coming!
I could never figure out what the problem was with matching foundations but as soon as Hannah started talking about desaturated complexion products it all clicked for me! The only thing that fixes foundation shades for me now is the Haus Labs white foundation and Exa Green color corrector. As well as Auric Glow Lust in Pyrite because as tan as it is, the olive undertone is so perfect for me so I use it as bronzer. LA Girl also makes a white concealer that’s been a game changer for mixing! I’ve even been using the LA Girl blue foundation mixer to fix certain contour shades. Color theory is really incredible and shoutout to Hannah for all the product recommendations 😍
Beside the desaturation matter (all in for the idea!) I would also add: normalise making small sizes of foundation bottles, and have it in all shades you make. I would gladly buy 10ml foundation instead of 30ml (as long as the price is comparable ml to ml) to test it longer than just a use or two from a tester before I commit to a full size. I am not trying out many foundations I may be interested in, because I have a rare combination of needs so the risk a foundation will flop for me is too high to justify the purchase (I have pale warm olive undertone, very oily skin that at the same time hates all the heavy duty full coverage EL DW style formulas usually made for oily types - which together cuts me off like 90% of foundations). I would try more foundations if I could buy 5 or 10 ml minis to try out, in the specific shade I want to try it - and I would gladly repurchase a mini from my favourite foundations for travelling. It would also be useful for makeup artists, who could stock up on shades that are rarer (pale olives in general, but also e.g. the darkest shades in countries without many black people - they could have a smaller and cheaper 10ml bottle or two at hand, without the risk of it going bad before it can be used up but also without risking not having any).
I was never able to articulate why I didn't feel like there was a good match for my (what I think of as) very average white girl skin tone--especially at the drugstore, double-especially with concealer. You nailed it with the saturation thing. Everything feels like I'm putting a skin-colored Apple Barrel acrylic paint with a name like "peach" or "ochre" on my face. The first thing I've ever found that felt like a true match was a Merit stick foundation, and you're exactly right--it's like it's a bit grayed out, almost, and that's the ticket.
About the design: The design of the packaging is not what makes more exoensive, is the material and the shape. Sometimes a "minimalist" design of color is more expensive to makes then a Very colorful one. Other thing that i realized (here in Brazil) is that minimalist packagind and design is something Very eurocentric. Is doesnt talk much with other cultures that are based on colors, shapes and sizes. Other thing about it is packaging usually comes with age studies. Some generations like types of design diferent. I know ppl who say the nars packaging design is boring and looks lazy lol
the thing I am always looking for is for any concealer at the drugstore to come in a bright pinky salmon correcting color for bluey purple undereyes. I feel like every formula should just have this in the range and it is only done by a handful of companies.
Your 3rd point! Again ... Look into MOB!! Plus they have managed to successfully pull off simple sampling too which is a huugggee plus to me, especially with complexion products. That'd be my wish for more brands to have available going forward.
Omg. Yes to the desaturated pigments. Please. For sure for foundation, but for bronzers, contours, and concealer as well. Like most people, while I lean more one way than the other (cooler but with a hint of warmth), there is just too much saturation in the pink’s of the foundations to blend seamlessly. I can’t wear much foundation ever because I have to wear the lightest shade possible on the cool spectrum but if I want more coverage, it gives my skin a really weird cast. Every time I’ve had my makeup done by a professional, they look at my face and reach for a foundation and I know immediately it’s not going to be light enough. And sure enough, they swatch it and go, “oh! That’s way too dark.” and they move on down until we end up at the lightest shade. But they then spend so much time trying to correct for the ridiculous paleness now on my face (because I’m not actually THAT pale) by “adding warmth” back in and then they’re like, “oh, you’re lucky, you don’t need much blush at all. It looks too heavy on you.” but it’s just because there’s too much saturation in EVERY DAMN PRODUCT 😂. Contouring is out for me for the same reason. Bronzer? Forget it. I often end up using lipsticks and eyeshadows for blushes and even colour correcting and contouring because it’s the only place where I can find less saturated, cooler colours. I mean, I’m sure there are some products out there that would work better, but I’m not spending a gob of money on a plethora of products in hopes of finding one that will work. And once I find one, they usually get discontinued once the next fad comes through. I have one sad tube of concealer that I am currently delicately dabbing at because it’s perfect in every way ….. and it’s discontinued. *sigh*
I don't know how often you can make these kinds of video's, but I am enjoying it more than I thought (especially because I am not a huge make up person)
You’re not alone in this and I’ve constantly felt this way and that has led me to stay away from foundation and used something along the LINES of my skin tone in a bb cream and at most cc cream product. One that’s similar to my skin tone, spread out thinly across my face, enough coverage while matching somewhat to my skin.
TOTALLY agree about saturation in coloring-color theorists talk about this. I have light-medium olive skin and was color typed as a 'cool and delicate' by Meriam Style and she talks about me having grey in the skin. It's been a game changer-and for some reason I find a lot of Asian BB creams match me perfectly and have that greyness in their shades, like you've mentioned in previous videos (Depthwise I'm around a Mac NC20). Also- WHY OH WHY did Mac ever get rid of Squirt Lipglass and only have it be limited edition, and with this Gen-Z 90's/2000's revamp, why have no drugstores duped this color? It haunts me
What a fun video idea. I don’t have any ideas to contribute but I hope a brand stumbles across your video and uses yours. They are innovative and as cool as you are.
I'd love to see more brands follow Lisa Eldridge's example of having sample cards for foundation shades so you can try before you buy.
Kosas also does this, thank goodness. Because the models in the photos hardly EVER match the descriptions and the photos of the shades are usually totally inaccurate. So confusing!!! This is why swatch videos from HLP and other folks with similar undertones/saturation are so golden.
Clinique also does this!
and mufe
@@helgaserge7152 And many of the brands who sell on Camera Ready Cosmetics! That store makes the samples to stock and sells them for cheap. 😁
Or better yet… buy them for… let’s say $10-20 and get a coupon to use for use on a full size base. (You’d obviously take the risk of losing that initial investment… if none of the samples work for you… but it’s better than losing $40+ or having to bother to return and try again.)
My suggestion as a fragrance lover is that more brands offer smaller and travel-size bottles. I like travel sizes because I feel like it's less of a risk to blind buy, but also 95% of my collection fits in one makeup bag instead of taking up a whole shelf or closet. I think especially with the looming/current recession many consumers straight up just don't have the money for large bottles of perfume in general, and even if they might they probably are not willing to drop $200+ on something that they can't even try. I think smaller packaging in general for lower prices would be cool in all of beauty. It's pretty rare that people finish a whole lip product, foundation, or mascara, and you end up paying a higher price only for half of what you bought to go bad.
Hi Isa
HLP mentioned in another recent vid that she used to buy her fave high-cost fragrances from a company that packaged them in the fragrance sample bottles you can get - might be of interest to you! Also, I recently emptied one of these sample bottles of a fragrance I didn’t like, and then spritzed my own fave fragrance into the empty bottle. And for once, I had my fragrance with me on hols without lugging the big, nearly full (so fairly weighty) bottle with me 🤩 I was chuffed!
As someone who travels around between countries several times a year I am 100% here for this. My favorite products have been travel sizes, not only can I take all of my makeup and skincare when it's travel sized but I also get through the products before they expire which is HUGE!
@@rosey_ie Ah, thanks! I use scentsplit to get decants. I don't know if that's the one she mentioned but I am a fan of scentsplit.
This is why I buy travel-sized products whenever possible ✈️
My problem is how much more expensive minis are for how much product you get. Most of the time I end up talking myself into spending for the larger one only because if I’m going to use it and like it it’s more cost efficient. But if I’m really not sure about the product I’ll suck it up and buy a mini just to avoid product waste.
The saturation issue is WHY I'm not into makeup -- it's impossible (or feels like it) to find a complexion product that doesn't make me feel like a clown or an oompa loompa
I stopped buying foundation myself for this reason. I stick to concealer only.
@@yessiyessica exactly. Me too. I just either color correct or spot conceal. Foundation always looks like a mask on my skin. I'm light-medium with cool undertones. That's hard enough with shades being straight pink on my skin.
This is why I mix in my foundation with my face lotion.
@@yessiyessica what concealer? I think that in the concealer there are much fewer shades. Havent you tried Smashbox or Fenty foundations?
@@helgaserge7152 If @ElevenChrysathemums 's skin is as pale & desaturated as mine, Fenty & Smashbox foundations (& practically every other brand on the planet) will be too dark &/or saturated for them.
It is wild to me that no one else talks about saturation/desaturation. I have neutral undertones and I feel like I have to choose a bright pink or yellow leaning neutral and neither one is my skin tone. When I look at your muted chart I do see my skin tone.
Same!
Maybe you're just olive, I also struggled because I wasn't either yellow or pink and I realized I was light cool olive
YES I'm pale and because everything is so saturated on me, it always looks darker, so my makeup actually makes me look duller and less youthful a lot of the time!
Until I discovered colour mixers (blue and green specifically) a few years ago in my late 30s, I had just entirely given up on foundation after spending my entire adult life being called "cool" and directed to the pink-toned foundations by SAs. Everything was either too pink or too orange, literally nothing worked until mixers. I agree that it is WILD that brands don't seem to be on to saturation yet because it fully has nothing to do with depth and anyone, anywhere on the light to dark spectrum, can be more or less saturated. (and yes, I am olive, which in itself is nuts because I was told SO many times that you can't be on either end of the fair/deep spectrum and be olive, it's only people in the middle. again: just not true at all). Not all fair people are pink and not all deep people are red and I have no idea why this actual reality that you can see with your eyeballs every day still hasn't made much of a dent in an industry that literally exists to match their product to human skin tones.
Me, too!! I looked at the desaturated chart and excitedly shouted (inside my head) “THAT ONE!! That’s the one I need !!”😂
Hi! Packaging designer here, not cosmetic industry but not far off. I wanted to offer my perspective on your last segment: All printing is still way cheaper than the development process needed for custom molded parts. Most affordable brands are likely selecting components from the styles a manufacturer already has in production. This drives brands to use bright printing as the easiest way to differentiate. Particularly at lower price points, without luxury shopping perks like sales associates and samples, the goal is to be recognised and remembered more than it is to be attractive once purchased. Bold printing may also be to ensure the product is distinct when they're using the same component elsewhere. The garish packaging showing up more in expensive brands may have more to do with an (often misguided) attempt to be remembered in an oversaturated mid-price market. One successful counter-example: elf is extremely affordable. I've always loved their practical, sleek, minimalist packaging. They've nailed a brand identity suitable for packaging that is both affordable and minimal. I bristled a little at the designer comment, no harm done, I get where you're coming from. However, I've found it requires more skill, more creative labor, and more upfront investment to maintain a cohesive minimalist brand identity across a large product line than it does to apply inconsistent bright graphics to each new launch. elf probably invested a lot of money earlier on to establish their look, and they put a lot of money into their other marketing. Tl;dr The cost of printing, no matter the graphic, is a drop in the bucket next to the other expenses of manufacturing and overall brand development.
Idk about lighter toned people, but this is something that those of us with darker skintones have been talking about since like forever.
The lack of nuance in undertones for deep skin and the over saturation of red, orange, and yellow that you find typically in a deep range.
The same reason darker skintones don’t get the. More neutral, kinds of blushes or bronzers. It’s always like red, or purple and very few pretty neutral blushes. For example Ami Cole blush in Dune, Mac Razin, Phytosurgence Exothermic and Sublimate, Salt New York Cocoa and Sunburnt.
I am a medium deep warm olive and it is damn near impossible to find a shade of foundation that works for me. I also find that color correctors for deeper skin are sometimes too saturated. Like I would like a slightly more toned down orange.
Like where are the deep neutral one and done eyeshadows? Deeper taupes? It’s so hard to find something flattering for my skintone range.
Yes! This exactly. I am also in the tan/med deep category with a golden olive undertone, but it's hard enough finding olive undertones at all, let alone desaturated ones. Everything still looks orange and pink. I do love Ami Colĕ's blush in dune 🖤
Maybe it has to do with the whole ideology that bronzing and "healthy" skin meant for the industry, most skin products were designed to make everyone.. despite the different undertones, look vibrant and healthy.
So grey undertones and ashiness became undesirable.
Nowdays more people understand that some people might simply have naturally duller skintones that require different underrones of the ususal pink-orange-yellow.
Yes… because white can do a lot of work in making a mixture less bright. I am medium dark and I’ve given up on finding complexion products altogether. Not an excuse, but I do think that part of it is that the more pigments that you mix together, the less reproducible the mixture is. Even if you say “1 tbsp yellow, 2 tsp red, 1/4 tsp blue, 2 tbsp white” in the foundation kitchen each of those steps is another chance for the batch to be a little “off” and introduce some more error. And it’s easier for makeup brands to make the same unrealistic orange again and again than make a slightly different naturalistic color every time.
She’s in her industry expert era! 👏🏽
Current foundations and concealers are all made with four types of pigments: pigmentary titanium dioxide, yellow/red/black iron oxides. The first one is not really pigmented at all while the black is very potent, so it is difficult to add
grey with them without creating super high coverage. So I think what brands would need to try is add green or blue pigments to cancel the yellow and red iron oxides which provide that strong colour. I've made foundations in a lab before and so I think this would be the way to achieve desaturated foundations/concealers. The only challenge is cost, the more desaturated shades will be more expensive to make because green and blue pigments are more expensive.
Such a great point! Yeah, there’s an actual issue of the way these products have been formulated forever.
WOW
oh man- I never thought about the properties of the actual tinting substances as a factor, thats fascinating. Its kind of easy to assume that its all just magic and every colour is the same. Thanks for sharing!
So informative!
Thanks for your insight. I figure there are several elements of expense and overhead to 75+ premade (not mixed to order after a sample card) colour shade ranges. I try to stay conscious of my expectations of business overhead and risk. I prefer to focus on financially feasible and profitable expectations from independent brands like Salt, Axiology, Rituel de fille. Bare Minerals has a great range and ethical pigments for a larger brand.
I have two theories on the minimalist packaging thing. 1) A lot of drugstore brands are owned by parent companies who also own luxury brands so it's in their interest to differentiate drugstore from luxury. They don't want their luxury customers moving to drugstore. 2) There's a constant cycle of drugstore brands adopting luxury packaging and luxury brands updating to stay ahead of them. The drugstore brands don't catch up because it's expensive to redesign their packaging (even if the new packaging is actually cheaper, there's a lot involved in updating their supply chain).
L'Oréal (parent brand; drugstore) owns Maybelline (drugstore), Lancôme (high end to luxury), shu uemura (high end), NYX (drugstore), Urban Decay (high end), CeraVe (drugstore), Youth to the People (high end), YSL (luxury), and a buttload of other beauty brands at various price points.
Bourjois (drugstore in UK and Canada), last I knew, still owns Chanel (luxury).
Estée Lauder owns mainly other high end and luxury brands (MAC, Clinique, Too Faced, Smashbox, bumble & bumble, Tom Ford, it used to own Becca before they folded, among others). The only budget brand they have any money in is The Ordinary, and all those products have long been in minimalist packaging.
And I think pretty much every brand owned by LVMH is a high end or luxury brand (e.g., Fenty, KVD, used to own Marc Jacobs before it folded).
Shiseido owns NARS and some Japanese drugstore or budget brands.
Every brand has their own aesthetics, but I'm not sure if the parent companies have anything to do with that.
From designer stand point. In the amount of products, that's being produced/selled the expenses for actually designing is very very little. Maybe more expensive part is the general testing of the packaging and then with selected groups (large companies do that, I think Kellogs were one of them). Also, the examples of minimalistic pack, that was shown in a video, it could be that the packaging is custom-made. Everything custom made is more expensive. Like the actual fonts and inks cost less than the molds they have to make for the pack (the supply chain part). The funny part is, if the pack is commonly used (the shape) anywhing minimalistic will look plain or empty. Minimalistic design can be quite hard to achieve, because all proportions have to be just right and somehow not boring.
I was coming here to say exactly this. The larger conglomerates really don't have any reason to make a cheap product look more luxury than it is, because it could bite into their luxury market. And luxury customers are often influenced by packaging that's well designed, heavy, feels "luxe", or modern. (Judging by my own tastes when I splurge and a million beauty youtubers.)
The best thing is to find a knowledgeable drugstore employee who can tell you what the dupes are.... I've had that happen with shampoos once, it was pretty cool!
I learned in art school that minimalism is actually really difficult to do well because everything has to be PERFECT. So I feel like the designers would actually have to be paid even more because they’d have to spend more time on it.
I personally like a really decorative piece (think Florasis, Zeesea, or the Gucci lipsticks in the metal tubes.) I like my makeup to look vintage and interesting and cohesive on the vanity, like an antique store. A little box of makeup bonbons.
Oh my god, that first desaturated olive swatch is exactly what I need in my life. Brands, make the chart happen! 😭
Same with me, my skin is fair greyish olive, not bright pastel green loool
I think elf has historically been a brand that did minimalist packaging and went ignored for a long time. (Not anymore, obviously).
Elf was my first thought. I think for the most part, they are the least “busy” looking of all the other brands. Neutrogena almost hits the mark, but has too much writing all over it.
NYX too
Yes, 100% this! There is SUCH a need for desaturation of complexion products in shade ranges. We've finally begun to make a full shade range in terms of value (light to dark) the norm, now we need to examine saturation across the range. I reckon a 'muted warm' crossed with 'muted olive' would be my perfect shade match, but this can't be created by mixing a standard warm with standard olive because there's nothing to remove some of the intensity of that pigment. I'm so glad you've spotted this too!
I worked at a print store for about a year (we did things for a large amount of businesses and often outsourced things when needed). I have learned that printing onto something, whether it be 2 colors or 40, costs the same when you are using the same surface area. HOWEVER, black and white ink costs pennies. Not only that, but single color plastics cost even less.
Minimalist packaging is chump change compared to intricate, eye catching containers
GCMI 90 OR 91!
😮 Oh, wow, to the saturation part. I think I have just learned something about my skin. I have concealer that works perfect in the Sommer, but in winter, it's way too bright (like too much color) even tho the shade (and undertone) are ok. I just did a quick Google search and found an article about 'black skin desaturating in winter'. And when you showed the graphics, I saw myself in the muted range of the deep desatured tones.
Thanks for including the graphics, because it's sometimes hard to follow your explanations when one has medium to dark skin. This was super helpful and interesting. Something I'll definitely look more into it. But unfortunately, I've never really came across somebody else talking about this.
My sister and I, as fellow very pale individuals, have been screaming about foundations not being grey enough for a very long time, too! I feel as if problems with tone appear so potent for the very fair partly because we have so little base pigment in our skin that it takes a lower proportion to overpower us and make us look like an Oompa Loompa or as though we used calamine lotion for foundation. SOMEDAY OUR PRINCE WILL COME!
I gave up on base makeup for this reason!
Yes, yes, and yes!! A grey base definitely evens out the red. Everything is yellow, Don't have a yellow neck or chest. I am fair in all of those areas.
Omg THANK YOU for saying this. I commented on a makeup group once that I needed a more grey undertone because my skin is so pale and everyone laughed and told me there was no such thing as a gray undertone. I got a "light ivory" foundation that I swear was bright orange on me because online shade matching is just not it.
I could never find a shade match until I found the CYO foundation in shade 101, which is desaturated! The other perfect match for me in terms of saturation is the Purito BB cream, but much too dark so I mix it with a lightening drop and it’s perfect.
Just a thought, have you looked into K beauty? Micha BB cream. I think it was shade 23. But that might be too deep for you, but it was SUPER gray when I tried it a few years ago. Not pink enough for me sadly.
And this is why cosmetics is a Billion $$$ business! We keep buying, trying, buying some more and throwing stuff out. And don't get me started on lighting in the stores! Built in failure! Your comments are spot on. Agree 100%.
Right. Whoever implements the full range of undertones and saturations in a few beautiful formulas is going to be a billionaire.
I have no understanding of colour theory, but you finally made it click why I can't find foundation that works for me. I am extremely pale, and foundation is either too pink or too yellow. I've never heard anyone mention the saturation of foundation before, and it explains my struggle!
my frustration has always been with finding the right shades for foundation and concealer across different brands. i wish there was a way in which we could force them to use a standardized palette of shades, like a Pantone situation, but exclusively for skin tones, and all brands had to formulate a selection of those shades. I'm sure there's many problems with this idea, but i find myself attracted to standardization in this area of the makeup sphere
Omygoodness yes please
Like I’m a size US 7 wide shoe and if I buy from a random brand online, the pair that arrives will likely fit perfectly
Why can we do this with foundations or even hair dyes 🥲😫
@@stephswavycurls that doesn't work for me, with a shoes((
@@helgaserge7152 Same, I can be a 9 or a 10 depending on the company and style 😅
Yes! My perfect shade is in your muted + olive line. Hannah for cosmetics consultant extraordinaire ❤
The de-saturation of foundations is exactly why I decided to invest in Salt New York creams, I mixed my perfect foundation colour with the white and N13 and a little bit of yellow+blue to really make it olive and it came out PERFECT. I also mixed a few blush colours and emptied out a really disappointing gucci compact (it was the facial setting powder compact for those wondering) and filled it with my custom blushes! Now I get to enjoy the compact daily and have the blush of my dreams all in one. I never would have tried SNY if you hadn't made that super in-depth video mixing the colours together, it just sparked something in me that was like OH THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE! Maybe its because I paint frequently so it seemed right at home doing it for my painting canvas and for my facial canvas!
I wish more companies thought about accessibility when it also comes to their packaging design. Certain things I purchased I cannot open because the packaging is so hard to work with.
Yes! When Kim Kardashian released those spherical tubs of skincare, my wrists immediately cringed in horror 🤣😅
This!! Not even disabled, but I constantly have acrylic nails that aren’t even that long. And there are so many packages you literally have to stick and nail into the latch to get it to pop open. I end up using tweezers or scissors half the time. I wonder how many people with simple disorders in fine motor skills just DONT buy products because they’re too hard to open.
You absolutely just gave six figure value product consulting ideas!
I wholeheartedly agree with what you said about desaturation. Especially in deeper tones, I've noticed that the shades are often extremely yellow, orange or even red. So when I work on clients with deeper skin tones, I always have to add a bunch of blue to the mix to tone down the shades.
And I also agree about the minimalist packaging.
What're your favourite blue mixers? Bonus points if they're fragrance free & inexpensive.
I feel like the warmth/ yellow tones in foundation shades developed because people wanted to look tanner - match their foundation with their ‘tan’ skin and have sun kissed glow year round!
And then for people who then found the yellows too yellow, they developed a sister line that skews in the opposite direction: rosy red.
And then later, comes neutral.
These days people want the most natural coverage and, so it goes, true skin match.
Truth is most people have pretty desaturated skin with a mix of tones that might gently skew to one tone or another but nil so severe as to be so saturated.
I used to really scratch my head with how foundation shades could get darker or yellower but still not my colour - as someone with medium skin tone who never goes in the sun, I determined no one comprehends the idea that someone can be as deep in colour as me but also as pale / washed out as me.
That’s my 2 cents. 😅
You’re not alone!
I’m in the EXACT same boat here 🙋♀️
I’m wishing you the best of luck, it’s so frustrating ❤️
You’re so right, I mix green with everything. The Lisa Eldridge 9.5 true olive foundation shade is my best match and the fact that I can use it without mixing is amazing. She has a few new olive shades which are desaturated actually, even in the lighter side of the spectrum. Awesome ideas !
I’ve been eying the Lisa Eldridge foundations too. Im so happy she’s included paler olive toned foundations. I also like the new Fenty 225 olive shade, but it’s too dark for me in Winter. Also, full coverage + matte is not really my thing. I’d love it if their ease drop tint had olive shades. Glad to see they’re trying with the foundation shades.
for minimalist packaging it can definitely be less expensive, but also i think with cheaper components minimalist design can feel cheap too. Elf is a good example imo, sometimes their minimal packaging works and sometimes it just feels cheap and unfinished. not quite sure how do describe it.
ive seen more brands in target recently taking on a more minimalist, millenial, direct-to-consumer type branding. so I think the minimal packaging is coming, slowly but surely. The cheapest drugstore brands dont seem to care as much about hiring good designers to make things feel elevated because that would cost money.
anyways, im a packaging designer for skincare and beauty so this tyoe of discussion fascinates me!
I think elf wouldn't look so cheap if the plastic was matte, and if they didn't have black lettering on light background. Solid matte pastel colors with white lettering is maybe overdone but imo still looks better than the shiny high-contrast drugstore stuff. You could even have an all-over floral pattern, but keep the contrast down. Our eyes naturally turn to shiny high-contrast objects in our environment, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they sell better!
Years ago when e.l.f. had three branches of their brand (the basic line where everything was $1, the Studio line where everything was $3, and the Mineral line where everything was $5), I thought the Studio line's packaging was great (black packaging, white text - very reminiscent of NARS).
Yes! Grey foundations work the best on me as a very pale person. Everything always pulls too pink, orange or yellow.
One of the reasons I LOVE the look of the handful of Japanese and Korean BB/CC creams I've tried is because of this very thing -- they're NEUTRAL. Like the first time I squeezed a sample out onto my hand, it was "whaaaat, this is not face makeup, this is pale khaki-grey?!" AND THEY LOOK AMAZING. Unfortunately I can't wear them, because the overwhelming majority contain a ton of cyclomethicone/cyclopentasiloxane, or stearic/palmitic/myristic acids, all of which are a guaranteed cystic-breakout generator for me.
HARD AGREE, more brands should take this concept and run with it. I mean, I LOVE color, but I save it for eyes and lips and cheek...not interested in painting my whole face orange, thx.
Agreed. I came to make the same comment. K beauty definitely plays more with saturation. But sadly at a very limited range of depth.
@@maggierobertson2962 Oh def. I think the widest color range I've ever seen was ... three shades? Granted, that's a bb/cc and not a true full-coverage foundation, but still!
Remember that a lot of drugstore brands and luxe brands are children of the same parent company. Certain things don't happen in drugstore makeup because they can hurt high end. These companies are true competitors, tho, they don't share in each other's profits - I assume someone from the big daddy company puts the kibosh on certain things and that there are unwritten rules. Obviously, it's ideal to get as many customers as possible at all price points, but you can see that drugstore typically cooperates with the pricing ranges set by luxe brands. The manufacturing costs are likely very similar.
You have to try the elf colour corrector in blue! I was baffled by the effects it has on my „to yellow/orange“ foundations. Sure, i knew yellow + blue = green but seeing it play out how i can manipulate a otherwise unused foundation with a tiny bit of blue in something „more grey/olive or neutral“ was fun.
Ugh, I feel everything you said about saturation. When I mixed my own foundation shade, I put in lots of complementary colors in order to mute out the actual color and I was able to create a PERFECT match myself. Neutral shades are usually muted shades. But the industry doesn't seem to think of that... My skintone consists of an olive undertone with yellow overtones, but it's not bright or clear, it's muted. Doesn't matter if I'm winter pale or summer tanned, it will gain a bit of saturation when tanned, but not intensely. So yeah, that might be the best advice and the most important to actually listen to in terms of the creation of a range of foundation shades that actually work for everyone. We're not all bright/clear in coloring... shouldn't a make up lab know about color theory to an extent that makes it easy to understand this? I remember I used to grab the lightest foundation shades possible when I was younger. They were way too light, but the darker ones were either too orange or too yellow or too pink. Nowadays I buy "neutral" shades and use a foundation that has only light coverage in order to make it work... I mean it's great I know my exact skintone and undertone but doesn't change anything if there's basically NO matching foundation shade, right? 🤔
This comment reminds me that skin is translucent, and I really wish that the pigments in foundation could form a washy glaze. It'd look so much more natural than a flat pancake of color.
Also reminds me that there seem to be be at least two different olive hues: a yellow olive and a red olive. I notice that a lot of Indian makeup lovers describe themselves as olive, and it really is different from the red/purple hues we see from other ethnic backgrounds. Melanin is soooo much more complicated than "present/not present"!
In Canada we have a drugstore brand called Quo that relatively recently (around 2019) redesigned their entire brand to look like that really pretty minimalist packaging you were talking about! They also have a lot of desaturated colours!! I use one of their single shadows as a grey toned contour. Since I moved to LA I’ve missed Quo every day
Love to hear your thoughts one day💗
Thanks for talking color; it’s my favorite aspect of makeup reviews! I suspect a lot of the problem is that we’re never given specific language to talk about color: saturation, chroma, hue, value. We see it and know it, but we end up asking for a lighter or darker match, when it isn’t the whole story. The more articulate consumers can be about what they need the better. Given that I’m a light olive person, I’ve got skin the game. I also really appreciate when you get a little on a desaturated soap box. I feel seen. Thanks!
When I found my first bb cream that ended up being grayish, I fell in love. It was by Dr Jart and was considered their light shade. Well, everyone complained, and they reformulated it. Of course they did!! Left out again. Gonna try mixing my green color corrector next. The search continues...
Missha original bb cream shades 21 and 23 are pretty gray, it's an older product but I really like the finish.
Purrito Clearing BB Cream also leans grey, too. Terrible shade range so you def need a light-med skin tone to make it work. But I love it and even mix it in with other foundations to make them more neutral.
@@jessicalevy2415 Thanks so much for the info!! I've heard great things about the finish as well.
@@mariedohet1286 Thanks so much for responding.
I loved this video concept! Elf does mostly minimal packaging while keeping price point reasonable really well I think
Exactly. I was thinking e.l f. when Hannah was going over this point. That company has absolutely exploded since it entered the market and started with very minimalistic $1 USD items.
i think desaturation should be carried over into blush and lip products. Sometimes we want contrast and color is secondary. I had an old fav blush that looked like nothing in the pan but it just did something. Product: I was using a pointy brow liquid pencil to make subtle digits under my eyes where lower eyelashes are supposed to be, but it ran, then I found Freckles. Now I need a larger shade range.
This reminds me: I need a blush release to come in "pigmented" vs. "tinted" versions, of every color. Lots of folks will love a color but the pigment percentage is either too high or too low to look good/show up on their personal skin tone!
Agreed. And along with minimalist packaging I really like customizable palettes.
I’m challenged in the eyebrow department and appreciate what you’re saying about introducing more of a dyeing effect in a brow product. I wonder if the staining potential of natural pigments would be something to consider. I’m seeing what the brand 100% Pure has achieved with fruit pigments, and a “staining” brow gel is something I would love to see in their line. Great idea, Hannah!
Like Overtone for brows, mixed into brow gel. That sure sounds like it should be doable! (I don't know enough about this to know if one should not, in fact, just apply Overtone with a spoolie 15 minutes before getting in the shower, but also that wouldn't be in one's normal product application)
@@Quinn-wh1nv My first concern would be eye contact, but maybe something alcohol based would work?
@@kagitsune Yeah that's my concern too (but also I don't know a thing about the formulation or safety of brow dye normally)
All of these are YES 🙌🏻
I gave up on foundation ages ago because every colour just looked so over saturated on me, especially once it oxidized a little bit.
And as a light blond eyebrow gal, the tinted gel/wax/pomade would change the game.
I'm waiting for makeup stores to have a machine that scans your skin and automatically mixes a foundation customized for you - come on technology! We can 3D print but can't customize foundation?
I think Prescriptives did custom foundations, but you had to go to a counter for that, which not everyone had (or has) ready access to.
Yeah, Prescriptives is the only brand I know of that did this, but it was guided bh the person behind the counter, & wasn't a fully computerized process. There have been other brands that have boasted of their custom foundations, when 1)they weren't available at all of their counters & 2)they only mixed together existing shades in their line. Prescriptives actually started from scratch, & used powder pigments.
Lancôme (a L'Oréal brand) tried it, but it was literally a combo of white, yellow, peach, and flat brown pigments. No options for green, blue, or purple tints found in so many skin colors. 🙃
could be so easy
Yes, please to all the ideas. Especially, desaturated shades. Watching your channel really clarified the idea that not only did I need foundation that was desaturated, I really liked eyeshadow and blush colours that were murkier and more subtle than what is normally offered. You need to be in charge of the R and D of a cosmetics company. Preferably your own. I would love to buy HLP Beauty. ❤❤❤
there's a polish drugstore brand (eveline cosmetics) that makes this kind of gradually tinting brow gel. and it works nicely, so the idea is certainly possible to implement!
on minimalist packaging -- i totally agree. i buy pretty cheap k-beauty makeup but it feels super lux to me because of the minimalist aesthetic in the packaging.
this is one of my main reasons for buying k-beauty!! drugstore prices but luxe packaging, need the western brands to take note!!
I’m LOVING the idea of pushing more minimal packaging at the drugstore. I’ve been rebuilding a very small makeup kit as I’ve begun wearing it again and a huge draw for me is nice aesthetic minimal packaging for very well performing affordable products. I have purchased several elf products because of this and am quick to toss an item off my possible purchase list if the packaging doesn’t meet up with what I like. It may seem petty but I really want to enjoy looking at the products I buy just as much as I enjoy using them
I’ve always felt that brands would benefit from launching a new product in a full size and mini size at the same time. If you stand by your product, then people buying the mini will eventually result in wanting the full size
As a graphic designer I can tell you that minimalism isn’t cheaper. It’s perhaps a bit counterintuitive, but there is a corollary in writing. It’s much faster to do a “brain dump” while writing than it is to take that brain dump and edit and hone it down to its essential elements and create a streamlined and clear point of view. The same is true of design, especially when you bring in all the stakeholders and their varied opinions. Staying true to minimalism requires convincing others it is the right thing to do. It also requires a more experience designer who knows how to use limited tools (color, shape, typefaces) to create a distinct impression. Where a less experienced designer will use all the typefaces, all the color, all the shapes, to make their impression.
And good maximalism is just as hard to pull off as good minimalism.
That settles it, HLP needs to start a makeup brand so we can all finally find our foundation shade
I wonder if the brow tint hasn't been done because of the need for a dye that is safe to use around the eye area daily? I think it's a cool idea. An at home daily eyelash tint would be amazing as well.
Saturation is a foundational component of color theory, and I am shocked that experts and designers have yet to apply such a basic concept! You would think it would be more obvious if you were trained in color somehow. As a muted olive I have been yearning for this and have wasted so much money trying to find a close match over the years 😭
First to comment!!! Hannah! I love your videos, your vibe and everything you do! You have helped me overcome my addiction to shopping and other stuff as well. Thanks!! xoxo from Mexico City!
thank you so much!! thank you for being here 💗
I watch all of your videos now. And I appreciate how creative you are with the wide range of video topics you do while keeping them in the wheelhouse of what your channel is about. Since I’m not watching for a potential shopping list, I love that that’s not all you create. ♥️♥️♥️
I was on a panel at a convention talking about makeup for deeper skin tones and one of the undertones I mentioned was 'greige'. That we knew about cools, warms, goldens and olives but that deeper (and every other) skintones could fall under the 'greige' undertone where EVERY foundation or product feels too pigmented.
Desaturated is a much, much better description for that less saturated under and overtone. Thank you for this VERY informative and better worded breakdown of that idea.
Also I think the Morphe 100 shade foundations range a few years back, tried to have some of those less saturated ranges and got eaten alive because some folks grabbed a shade that read grey and green on their skin tones while others were thrilled to finally find their color. Shame that.
A whole foundation line possibly called Wisp or something (since Desaturated feels a little off putting for a whole line since makeup consumers have been trained to look for 'pigmented' as a sign of quality) could do really well? Sadly Tinted has been claimed as a brand name.
Personally, I'd like makeup brands to make smaller sizes of their products... This isn't the 1990s where we had 4-5 major makeup lines and one palette would last from highschool to the retirement home. Given the frequency of new makeup releases, launches, brand arrivals and declines....smaller packaging could help us actually USE UP what we buy faster vs it expiring and we feel like we wasted money. Like the CP highlighter pans are HUGE. I could cover my whole body 100x over with one SOL highlighter and still have some to spare. The size of some products make it next to impossible to pan.
To me, minimalist packaging doesn’t always make something feel more luxe or expensive. A lot of my favorite packaging isn’t minimalist - Kaleidos, Girlcult, Flower Knows, Anna Sui, Narimi Z, Odens Eye, etc. I often feel somewhat bored by how many brands (in many industries) are going so minimalist lately.
I feel this. I keep things like my Kaleidos palettes out on my vanity because they're beautiful, and because creating them involved artistry and conceptualization. My products in minimalist packaging live in a drawer, not because they're ugly, but because there's nothing enjoyable about looking at them. And if they live in a drawer, am I really getting the full high-end experience out of them?
I would love a video about how to correct a foundation with too much pigment, when you don´t find a desatured enough foundation for you skin.
THIS! 👆
YES TO DESATURATION PLEASE 🙏🏻
Oh. My. Gosh. Here's how I feel about the entire conversation about saturation and color correctors and the illustrations you put up...💡🤯...NOW I get it! That makes so much sense!!!!
I have been on a journey to figure out my tone and undertone and how that plays into my clothes and makeup. And I feel like with my makeup I kind of hit a bit of a road block and I have been so confused but now I get it. I am a DESATURATED warm tone! 👏
I just love your videos. You're seriously awesome.
How brands haven’t snatched you up to be consultant or for collab is Beyond me! Ps still holding out hope for “Obscura Blase’”🥰🙏🏼🙏🏼🤩💕
Thank you for the saturation rant 😭 When I look in the mirror, my skin is the color of a white piece of paper but if you added grey and green to it LMAOOO so everythingggg is too saturated on me! That why I like powder foundations - for some reason cream and liquid products are even more saturated!
Make sure that eyebrow tint is good for grey eyebrow hair, too.
When artists mix colours to paint skin there’s always green in it. Desaturation is achieved by adding colours from the opposite side of the colour wheel, not grey. The effect will be a greyed down one however!
I’m still using the gray purito foundation (the one you shared ages ago) mixed with my super fair concealer and a liiiittle green color corrected I’m allllmost able to match my color! As a fellow pale-ass green lady, I feel the struggle!
I completely agree with the saturation approach! I am extremely fair, and even if the lightest color is "light" enough for me, it is more often than not way too saturated for my skin and looks extremely off. It’s why I basically only use my concealer as a multi use product because I’ve found it’s great for my skin tone while it’s extremely hard for me to find a foundation that offers the same "saturation" level.
Can I ask which concealer you use? I have the same problems finding matches & I'm yet to find a concealer I love.
@@AnneOnymaus for me the makeup forever hd concealer has a shade that suits my skin tone best. I wish it had slightly more coverage though sometimes but I guess I can’t be too picky when the color is right. Rare beauty’s concealer also has a pretty good match for me but it’s a similar issue of wishing it had just a Tad more coverage.
@@kailar4126 Thank you: I'll add them to my "to test" list 🙂
Yes on neutral desaturation! FINALLY found a color for me in Salt New York, but I wish I could find the same color in a satin/natural finish, low-med coverage
With minimal design, I personally sway from loving it to be bored with it.❤
I have light skin with muted warm olive undertones.I look grey-green hen I'm not in the sun much and get more gold when I'm in it.I spend most of my time in windowless/blackout curtain rooms to the point that my doctor has prescribed me a few days a week where I have to get sun.
My skin and lips bring out the underlying tones of products.
These leads to mauves looking purple,pink based reds looking fuschia and complexion products looking like a bright pastel pink/peach/yellow.Olive undertones aren't well catered to and I've had people say "You can't be olive you are pale" to my face.
The saturation thing is real- but as a freckle owner, using SHEER base products is where the magic is.
So, the desaturation might be important for folks who want full coverage in their saturation level, but I personally love to mix foundation with moisturizer or spf to get a sheer layer of color- transparent enough to see my face, but colored enough to even things out.
I’m loving also the sheer tint cerave hydrating spf. That’s a dreamy product right there and more brands should make products like that! It’s two steps in one, it blends flawlessly plus spf 50.
We need brands to recognize your work and all the value you're already providing to them, Hannah! I'd love to see you working behind the scenes in an actually huge beauty brand! ❤
Omg the patience you have to explain this, I was listening and my agreeing mind was screaming yesssss, that's it!
Also YES to the desaturation idea. I often end up going neutral because my redhead undertones make it tough to match, but even that’s still sometimes off somehow. Your muted/saturated chart is brilliant.
Ooh, love that brow dye idea. I'm terrible at doing mine and constantly putting it off. Anything to make it easier
I'm sure the brow tint semi permanent gel thing HAS to be possible. The amount of staining I get on my hair from blue shampoo which is meant to be washed out is crazy....I think the desaturated pigment offerings would also be super helpful for people like me, with a neutral undertone with a lot of redness in my skin. I would like to have a small amount of desaturated yellow to take down some of the red in my skin rather than having to mess with color corrector...The worst packaging in the whole beauty realm is Paula's Choice. They went with minimalism, but then they've changed it like three times. I have so many of their products and they all have a different design it's like you wouldn't even know it was the same company. I don't care what they do as long as it's consistent you know...
And if they make color depositing conditioners to keep bright colored hair from fading, then they should be able to do this easily, but maybe the hold & the dye might not work together
@Cinema OCD I see your point about Paula's Choice & I agree their products don't look the best, but I don't care: it's only what's inside them that matters to me. It wouldn't worry me if every product in the world came in plain packaging, especially if that could help to keep prices lower.
100% on the saturation point! That’s why so many skin depths can use a single olive foundation or concealer. The depth can be more flexible because the undertone and saturation is so on point. I think for example if koh gen do made three more olive foundations like 213 they would easily become popular with us green girls lol
When discussing complexion products I tell ppl I’m an actual lizard person 🦎 bc of how MUCH green I’ve had to mix into my foundation and concealer bottles
A RUclipsr Nikki Raven describes herself as Slightly Orcish 😂
We’re all Fiona from the Shrek movies!
catrice had a brow gel that dyes your brows for a while but it got discontinued
i’m still sad cause it was very subtle and i loved it
I just need to thank you for articulating my problem with cosmetic shades for my skin tone that I always tried to understand but never pinpointed. I’m an olive complexion varying from light medium to tan but my only understanding of my undertone was that olive leaned grey. When I learned that I was able to gravitate toward grey leaning products (limited in production) I began to assume I’m a cool toned olive. Cool in complexion products means red, though, not grey… I was stuck. I also had this thought in my mind about the saturation of colors in my clothing that work for me, with muted being ideal, but I didn’t have the words to explain it. I never connected muted with grey scale until you demonstrated desaturating a color photo to black and white. It now seems so simple to understand, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know until you. Thank you, so, so much 😊
Design that is simple, elegant, and expensive-feeling takes a lot more time to finesse and perfect, therefore it will always cost more. The “over-designed” products you referenced are actually rushed and I doubt they iterated more than once. You always start out with a lot of ideas (naturally, as a designer). The skill comes in when you edit :) speaking as a product designer with over a decade of experience.
DESATURATE! ❤ i am another one of those who have given up on foundation entirely. I use a green primer all over and then i'm done. Pleeeaaase beauty brands HLP knows!!!
Hannah- you may have manifested the brow thing into my existence. Hours after watching this I went to a drugstore that I don't usually go to and BEHOLD! A new product- Revlon Colorstay SEMI-PERMANENT BROW INK. I tried it once yesterday- the look is interesting, a little bit of sheen? Weird but it looks okay, kinda like a laminated brow appearance. Can't speak to the tinting yet as it's supposed to build up over a few days. It doesn't seem to have stained the skin at all, which is good, and the hairs might be slightly stained after one use. Anyway, pretty crazy that I'd never seen a product like this until you invented it in this video
Hannah, this was ingenius! I honestly think it's so difficult to come up with anything not already invented! My idea would be something technology wise, like being able to swatch your foundation from at home on your hand and go to the shops and then all the foundations would light up with the exact match for you from each brand if you activated that feature
I think we should all agree that if a brand does any of Hannah's ideas, that we demand they give her credit, and send them this video. 😉
Also, I agree about the saturation problem. I think I am a "soft summer"- basically I am a cool pink toned person, my coloring is very soft. I tend to prefer powder foundation, so I usually can get that softer tint, but even some powder foundations can be too saturated. I have one I kinda use like a bronzer sometimes. I don't use bronzer- my coloring doesn't do well with it- but a pink powder foundation does what bronzers does for others.
I love the saturation idea! You explained this so perfectly; I often have trouble explaining this to people. Using the example of a turning the dial on a black and white photo makes it very easy to understand
Taking into consideration skin undertones when making "neutral" eyeshadows. Hear me out. I have been on the HUNT for a neutral brown eyeshadow but everything turns out either orange or grey on my skin. So that whole point about foundation colour, but for eyeshadows.
IDK if they're in your budget, but NARS single shadows come in some beautiful neutral & cool-neutral shades. "Blondie", "Bali", "Kingston", "Bengali" & "Coconut Grove", are all neutral & less-saturated matte taupes & browns. Unlike most other brands, their warm-neutral shades, like "Tulum", tend to skew more golden or rosy, & not orange. I also love that their packaging is magnetic, so you can take them out their compacts & assemble them in a magnetic palette. The pans for their duos are also magnetic & the same size as the singles, so you can mix & match them. The only downsides to the NARS shadows are their price, the fact that NARS doesn't often restock the singles on their site, & that they've been discontinuing shades w/out adding in new ones. IDK if they're just scaling back their selection, getting ready to reformulate/repackage, or phasing out their singles & duos🥺. I slowly added to my collection over time, & bought the majority of them discounted, either from department stores, or on the secondary market. All of their formulas (matte, satin, metallic, & hardwired) are excellent. Alternatively, you can't go wrong w/Natasha Denona's "Glam" palette, & Bobbi Brown also has a beautiful selection of neutral shadows.
If you don't mind shopping indie, Sydney Grace has an amazing selection of neutral, cool-neutral, & earth-toned shadows. They actually have a small selection of truly warm shadows in their line. Their quality is impeccable, & on par w/or better than most high end & luxury shadows. They have sales every Black Friday & Christmas in July, as well as a few randomly throughout the year. If you want any recommendations, I would be happy to help...
You could probably deposit color (not bleach) over time, but you do need to open the hair follicle with developer for meaningful results. I'd be I'd be concerned that doing this on a daily basis could damage the hair, but to your point if this was only intending to deposit small amounts of color over time that may not happen. My bigger concern though would be that the hair dye for eyebrows would end up leaving dye marks on the skin. Even if you kept it only on the brow area, imagine the blockiness of the look if your skin under the brows was all dyed.
i'm hoping that the recent surge of interest in seasonal color theory on western social media will raise awareness about mute tones. korean makeup brands have been coming out with tons of mute tone color products (and explicitly marketing them as such) for a while now. right now almost all of my makeup is from korea because of this, but i would love to have more options locally.
unfortunately korean base makeup still isn't quite as mute tone friendly imo, though there are a few brands that have decent options. authentic bb creams (the ones used at dermatology/esthetic clinics for masking redness and blemishes) also tend to be pretty muted. i really want to try the phymongshe bb cream as it looks super grey & is popular with makeup artists... but it's ~$60 😭 for now the $20 cell fusion c blemish balm has been working pretty well on my (pale olive) skin
Your thoughts about sleekifying drugstore-level makeup packaging : oh my god yes. The pros of going with something both simpler and more artful (and with higher-quality less-breakable materials) definitely outweigh any potential downside re: "oh people will mistake this for expensive stuff and won't look at it." If you're in a drugstore or the "drugstore" section of an Ulta, you already have an expectation for the price points you're going to see -- you KNOW that everything in that area will be pretty affordable. The flip side is that people who're passionate about makeup AND about aesthetics [raises hand] will pass your stuff up if it looks cheap and generic, but might give it a chance if it appears "worthy" of inclusion on their vanity.
I mean, arty stuff is a big part of my job and a big part of my life in general, so yeah, I 1000% make purchasing decisions based in part on what the packaging looks like. It's why I shell out for Carolina Herrera and Givenchy lipsticks (gorgeous) and why I pass up 99% of L'Oreal and Revlon (fug) (okay also because they usually smell like a cake frosted with industrial chemicals) even though they make some nice products. Good design -- attractive + functional + durable -- does not have to be expensive! And at the SCALE they're manufacturing? They can def afford it.
(Btw, Moira is a fairly good example of inexpensive makeup in packaging that's well-made, attractive, interesting, but not overly fussy or tacky.) (Also their Lucent cream shadows are LEGIT.)
The slow brow dye idea is amazing!!!! I need this now.
Youre 100% right about buying a "feeling" not just a product. I think brands need the drugstore/high end distinction because they're marketing to separate markets with different types of consumers. If they tried to market to other markets within the same brand, they would offend their loyal customer base and lose money. That's part of why brands use subsidiaries so they can have distinct separate brands and still get money from both market segments e.g. Esté Lauder and L'Oreal Paris.
Also, yes, your ideas are definitely worth millions of dollars, keep them coming!
I could never figure out what the problem was with matching foundations but as soon as Hannah started talking about desaturated complexion products it all clicked for me! The only thing that fixes foundation shades for me now is the Haus Labs white foundation and Exa Green color corrector. As well as Auric Glow Lust in Pyrite because as tan as it is, the olive undertone is so perfect for me so I use it as bronzer. LA Girl also makes a white concealer that’s been a game changer for mixing! I’ve even been using the LA Girl blue foundation mixer to fix certain contour shades. Color theory is really incredible and shoutout to Hannah for all the product recommendations 😍
Beside the desaturation matter (all in for the idea!) I would also add:
normalise making small sizes of foundation bottles, and have it in all shades you make. I would gladly buy 10ml foundation instead of 30ml (as long as the price is comparable ml to ml) to test it longer than just a use or two from a tester before I commit to a full size.
I am not trying out many foundations I may be interested in, because I have a rare combination of needs so the risk a foundation will flop for me is too high to justify the purchase (I have pale warm olive undertone, very oily skin that at the same time hates all the heavy duty full coverage EL DW style formulas usually made for oily types - which together cuts me off like 90% of foundations). I would try more foundations if I could buy 5 or 10 ml minis to try out, in the specific shade I want to try it - and I would gladly repurchase a mini from my favourite foundations for travelling.
It would also be useful for makeup artists, who could stock up on shades that are rarer (pale olives in general, but also e.g. the darkest shades in countries without many black people - they could have a smaller and cheaper 10ml bottle or two at hand, without the risk of it going bad before it can be used up but also without risking not having any).
I was never able to articulate why I didn't feel like there was a good match for my (what I think of as) very average white girl skin tone--especially at the drugstore, double-especially with concealer. You nailed it with the saturation thing. Everything feels like I'm putting a skin-colored Apple Barrel acrylic paint with a name like "peach" or "ochre" on my face. The first thing I've ever found that felt like a true match was a Merit stick foundation, and you're exactly right--it's like it's a bit grayed out, almost, and that's the ticket.
About the design:
The design of the packaging is not what makes more exoensive, is the material and the shape. Sometimes a "minimalist" design of color is more expensive to makes then a Very colorful one.
Other thing that i realized (here in Brazil) is that minimalist packagind and design is something Very eurocentric. Is doesnt talk much with other cultures that are based on colors, shapes and sizes.
Other thing about it is packaging usually comes with age studies. Some generations like types of design diferent. I know ppl who say the nars packaging design is boring and looks lazy lol
the thing I am always looking for is for any concealer at the drugstore to come in a bright pinky salmon correcting color for bluey purple undereyes. I feel like every formula should just have this in the range and it is only done by a handful of companies.
Your 3rd point! Again ... Look into MOB!! Plus they have managed to successfully pull off simple sampling too which is a huugggee plus to me, especially with complexion products. That'd be my wish for more brands to have available going forward.
Omg. Yes to the desaturated pigments. Please. For sure for foundation, but for bronzers, contours, and concealer as well. Like most people, while I lean more one way than the other (cooler but with a hint of warmth), there is just too much saturation in the pink’s of the foundations to blend seamlessly. I can’t wear much foundation ever because I have to wear the lightest shade possible on the cool spectrum but if I want more coverage, it gives my skin a really weird cast. Every time I’ve had my makeup done by a professional, they look at my face and reach for a foundation and I know immediately it’s not going to be light enough. And sure enough, they swatch it and go, “oh! That’s way too dark.” and they move on down until we end up at the lightest shade. But they then spend so much time trying to correct for the ridiculous paleness now on my face (because I’m not actually THAT pale) by “adding warmth” back in and then they’re like, “oh, you’re lucky, you don’t need much blush at all. It looks too heavy on you.” but it’s just because there’s too much saturation in EVERY DAMN PRODUCT 😂. Contouring is out for me for the same reason. Bronzer? Forget it. I often end up using lipsticks and eyeshadows for blushes and even colour correcting and contouring because it’s the only place where I can find less saturated, cooler colours. I mean, I’m sure there are some products out there that would work better, but I’m not spending a gob of money on a plethora of products in hopes of finding one that will work. And once I find one, they usually get discontinued once the next fad comes through. I have one sad tube of concealer that I am currently delicately dabbing at because it’s perfect in every way ….. and it’s discontinued. *sigh*
I don't know how often you can make these kinds of video's, but I am enjoying it more than I thought (especially because I am not a huge make up person)
You’re not alone in this and I’ve constantly felt this way and that has led me to stay away from foundation and used something along the LINES of my skin tone in a bb cream and at most cc cream product. One that’s similar to my skin tone, spread out thinly across my face, enough coverage while matching somewhat to my skin.
YES! Love your suggestions. Suggestion 2 speaks to my heart, a brand that does this has my money
TOTALLY agree about saturation in coloring-color theorists talk about this. I have light-medium olive skin and was color typed as a 'cool and delicate' by Meriam Style and she talks about me having grey in the skin. It's been a game changer-and for some reason I find a lot of Asian BB creams match me perfectly and have that greyness in their shades, like you've mentioned in previous videos (Depthwise I'm around a Mac NC20).
Also- WHY OH WHY did Mac ever get rid of Squirt Lipglass and only have it be limited edition, and with this Gen-Z 90's/2000's revamp, why have no drugstores duped this color? It haunts me
What a fun video idea. I don’t have any ideas to contribute but I hope a brand stumbles across your video and uses yours. They are innovative and as cool as you are.
Yes to the slow-dyeing brow gel! Rimmel had a mascara that did that, and it was nice.