Thanks for this video. If I ever get to the stage when I'd like one, I'd probably go for the press just because it's quieter, and that'll help keep me on better terms with my neighbours, and happy neighbours are important. Also, you were wondering why your video's lighting (and later the focus) kept changing. The solution is to put the camera's exposure and focus settings on manual, because on automatic the camera isn't smart enough to know what to focus on and is easily confused. Set up using auto, and then switch to manual to lock the settings, until you move the camera and need it to focus on something else.
G'day John. I have an Anyang Press. It is fantastic. On thing I notice though is, because the dies are in constant contact with the work, whilst pressing, they suck the heat out of the work quickly. A Power Hammer wont do that.
This really makes the difference stand out. Thank You. Big difference in the two, but you really made the differences easy to understand. PS - what would be the minimum tons necessary for a press? 5 Ton Hydraulic or 15 Ton, etc. I realize the size of metal and it's heat, but even 4" at Bright Yellow heat could be upset (just more muscle/power). Me (like others) still wonder why not just run a cord overhead and leave it plugged in? Also, just make an adapter so that dies can be used on each. Making a repeatable die setup for each is work, but when done, will work just fine. AS far as time on metal, the hammer is off more than on, but the press just presses in one pass, so to speak and it is done 3x faster.
I go back and forth between my press and power hammer depending on what I'm doing. Since I've made some sculpting dies like I saw on your new power hammer my press has become much more useful. I find the heat last longer and I get a lot longer working time if I just do small quick squishes instead of a longer squish.
I have knoticed on several videos that a press will suck the heat out of a piece much more quickly, and there is the added danger when something breaks on a press due to the force its often lethal, but on the plus side for a press it dont put as much stress into the metal at least as far as large piece forging goes that has to be annealed out we are talking drop forging type stuff or gun barrels though, and a press dont have to be built quite as heavy compaired to a hammer as evidenced by the commercially made ones by big blue hammer, and coal ironworks for example
Buddy.... I'm not sure when people asked how you decide which you use ... they thought they were going to get insight based on PROXIMITY. :-) I think they mighta kinda meant the LOGIC.
Indeed! Is it just my bad memory, or did you remove the safety skirt over your power hammers lowers? It would make more sense for it to have a headache bar around the uppers, to grab on to in case you stumble at the machine (or at least give you a good shiner so you don't forget to work safely).
Thanks For Yet Another Great Informative Video John! The Light Changing Doesn't Bother Me At All, It's The Content Of Your Videos That I'm Here For, & What I Appreciate, Not The Lightness , Or The Slightly Out Of Focus That Happens Every Once In A Blue Moon. Like I've Said Before, I Love Watching The Say Mak Work. Keep Up The Great Work, Thanks Again !
John, I don’t care what tools you use, your using what ever tools you need or want to at that time, I’m not a black smith but I love to watch your videos, I’m a member of a model engineering club and it involves working with metal and as far as I’m concerned, your doing a great job teaching or educating people. 👍 🏴.
I just got done building a 40 ton press for less than $800. I really like how it works. I would like to build a treadle and power hammer also sometime.
Great video as usual. Timely as well since I'm collecting the parts for a press build. Seeing that squished axe head was "eye" opening😁 Making room for these things is just as difficult as building them.
Black bear iam most interested in forge/shop machines, tools from 1860-80. I keep hearing about rollers for many processes. Rolling steel. Do you know about these? Anybody?
Thanks so much for the reply, what iam trying to figure out is the machines involved in making bear traps the old bear traps had springs that where swaged and rolled out or triphammered out to proper length and shape. I would like to send you some pics if you would be kind enough to study there construction and speculate as to how they where manufactured. Contact mike by text at 306-516-7335
I built the Clay Spencer Tire hammer, as well as the Jim Batson plans 25 ton press. They both have their strong points. I also built the Clay Spencer inline Treadle hammer. Another very useful tool. Die alignment is much more critical in the press, and I built a easy to use keyed alignment system. Excellent choice for a video covering this topic. Hammer and anvil will always be the standard tool used the most, but when you get older no doubt the powered tools help body longevity. Thanks for another great video John!!!
@@edgarbradford Yes it does. Mine has a 57# hammer. Raymond Head who builds and sells these under license from Clay lives about 10 Mike's from me. I had the chance to use his, and making the decision became a no brainer. I build all my own equipment, so cost was about half of buying one, and Raymond gave advise when needed. I have made flat dies, combo dies, and fullering dies for hammer forging. It works very well. Takes up little space with a 24" square baseplate. Control is good, and sensitivity can be controlled by varying tire pressure. I enjoy mine and use it often.
@@cholulahotsauce6166 A torch, drill press, good high amp welding machine (250 amp) hand tools, squares, a solid flat welding surface, a good selection of drill bits, up too maybe 1-1/4". There are 2 jigs that must be made. One is a simple spacer, the other is a squaring fixture to align the hammer and anvil die mounting holes. That one is very critical and must be made square and true. A shop crane or automotive "Cherry Picker" to lift the heavier pieces is handy unless you have a strong helper. A band saw that cuts square is essential, and a grinder to clean up parts. It's not a terribly hard build, but attention to alignment of parts is a must. On a scale of 1-10, it's about an 8 with regards to difficulty. I have 40 years of metal fabrication experience, so for me it wasn't that difficult, and my shop is well equipped with most every metal fabrication tool for just about any job. A helper with fabrication skills would be handy. Order the plans from Clay Spencer, study the plans and see if it's in your range of experience to tackle. Good luck with it should you decide to build it. Well worth the effort in my opinion,
My mind works a lot like johns I think In hammer blows not in squeezing ... I do have a fly press I do have a 30 ton press and. I have a power hammer all are home made . I engineered them all with what I saw them used for and I would and could use in my shop! My first build was a treddle hammer and it was and still is one of my go to tools then of course to power hammer. But my main tools are hammer anvil and forge ... and When folks stop in too see a man working I always pick up hammer in one hand and tongs in the other ... the other night I was grilling porter house steaks 🥩 on grill , I found myself looking for my tongs to flip the steaks over with and my hammer to thin out a big bulge on a steak ! Just was a funny thought my mind went to as I have been in my shop a lot lately making a friend a bunch of hinges pulls and shelf holders for his rustic 1870s kitchen remodel? Old model? I believe John said it correctly us old smiths think in hammer blows where younger kids like Alex Steele use a press way more then I .
Honestly, with blog type videos like this one, the talk is more important than the picture, so I'm actually working on another window while I listen, and only look back when you need to show me something (like the crack in the axe eye) I can see how the brightness fluctuating could be annoying though. In a regular tutorial it could be distracting.
Fantastic video. Besides efficiency/practical concerns, are there any differences in the final steel composition between pressing and hammering? I understand pressing creates a more drastic differential cooling, causing internal metal to move more than external metal, but is that a problem? Does pressing create stress risers on the surface and make the steel more prone to cracking, particularly in terms of bladesmithing?
I use my press to get a head start on a 2 to 5 inch round to bring it closer to 1/4 inch before i form my blades on the power hammer. Without my 100ton press id be standing infront of the power hamner for days on end.
Let's face it, your power hammer is a sweet piece of equipment that you plain just like using. I think it's the same for any tradesman. There might be a better tool but if it's no fun then what's the point?
Unless I win the lottery or something I'm not likely to get either one. I would probably go for a power hammer if that were to happen. I'm still a hobbyist and I'd get one to save wear and tear on my shoulders. I don't do enough work to justify the cost that's all.
Thank you so much, John. I guess I was watching axe-making videos and your process was so different that Liam Hoffman's like in this video ruclips.net/video/WbHicVK4Pl0/видео.html that I wanted to know what led to your choice of the power hammer over the press.
Good topic. Every tool has its uses. Lol. Some times one feels like a hamner sometimes he dont. Seriously , it leads me to wonder if in using the press for say an eye...would it be prudent to use multiple passes say go a bit then drop in some coal dust then go abit more. Or would that just kinda defeat the purpose. Idk just pondering the idea. Blessed days sirSir, Crawford out
The power hammer with the constant hitting closes the gaps between the grains of the steel making the steel more dense so be able to hold an edge better and be able to get it sharper so for anything that will benefit from a more solid dense steel the power hammer is the way to go next time you are at a tool shop take two cheaper hammers and tap them together and take two forged hammers of the same weight and do the same and the cheep ones will ring high pitched the forged being dense will not
I've notice that your press takes longer than others to switch from faster travel to higher pressure, and most of the heat is gone. I don't know if there is a fix for that, but maybe it would be worthwhile if there is.
So if I missed your introduction of your power hammer sorry! Can you give me some information on it like cost, weight of power hammer and how you came to want this power hammer! To bad you didn’t swage the cracked hammer from top! The dimple would not have been as much a factor! Love your videos!
John has two videos on using the fly-press, one is actually titled "introduction to fly-press forging" I think. He is top notch in giving instructions without talking down to you. One of the best instructors I have ever come across.
Yes it does make sense ! I myself , the reason for not having a power Hammer is ( Money) , One Day , I would Love to have one ! The press Does help my poor old Arms On a good bit of work but back to the anvil I go which I enjoy!!
Great Video thank you. Another huge difference between the hammer and the press, is the inertia of the application of power to the hot metal. In order to explain easier I will use the example of whipping a table cloth out from a glass of water on the table. Do this fast and the table cloth comes off and leaves the glass of water relatively undisturbed,(like a hammer would strike a drift going through a hammer eye) and you transfer very little energy to the area around the eye, Pull the table cloth slowly and because there is no inertia between the slow moving table cloth and the glass, there is more friction and the glass will move with the table cloth. the same applies to a slow moving press, forcing a drift into an eye. There is more friction between the sides of the drift and the sides of the eye so this is why the hot metal surrounding the eye becomes deformed. When applying speed to the contact with the drift, as a hammer would, you get a cleaner penetration of the hot steel than if you apply the pressure without speed and inertia, like a press would....just my 2c
RUclips is killing you little guys with Ads...back to back ads, one after the other before you even introduce yourself. I click right out and into something else. Sorry to say i wanted to watch it but didnt.
Thanks for this video. If I ever get to the stage when I'd like one, I'd probably go for the press just because it's quieter, and that'll help keep me on better terms with my neighbours, and happy neighbours are important. Also, you were wondering why your video's lighting (and later the focus) kept changing. The solution is to put the camera's exposure and focus settings on manual, because on automatic the camera isn't smart enough to know what to focus on and is easily confused. Set up using auto, and then switch to manual to lock the settings, until you move the camera and need it to focus on something else.
"Because ,I feel like it",good reasoning.
G'day John. I have an Anyang Press. It is fantastic. On thing I notice though is, because the dies are in constant contact with the work, whilst pressing, they suck the heat out of the work quickly. A Power Hammer wont do that.
I could see the press being better for making swages and other such tooling where you would benefit from the smaller amount of strikes
I don't mind the clouds, I'm paying attention to what your saying. As long as your voice doesn't go in and out, we're good. Have a great day.
..i'd listen to John on the radio. the video just give ya a better idea of what he's talking about..
@@y-notforge8913 I agree with ya.
This really makes the difference stand out. Thank You. Big difference in the two, but you really made the differences easy to understand.
PS - what would be the minimum tons necessary for a press? 5 Ton Hydraulic or 15 Ton, etc. I realize the size of metal and it's heat, but even 4" at Bright Yellow heat could be upset (just more muscle/power).
Me (like others) still wonder why not just run a cord overhead and leave it plugged in?
Also, just make an adapter so that dies can be used on each. Making a repeatable die setup for each is work, but when done, will work just fine.
AS far as time on metal, the hammer is off more than on, but the press just presses in one pass, so to speak and it is done 3x faster.
I think 15 tons would be useable, but if you're going as small as 5 tons I would just use a fly press and skip the need for power
I go back and forth between my press and power hammer depending on what I'm doing. Since I've made some sculpting dies like I saw on your new power hammer my press has become much more useful. I find the heat last longer and I get a lot longer working time if I just do small quick squishes instead of a longer squish.
I have knoticed on several videos that a press will suck the heat out of a piece much more quickly, and there is the added danger when something breaks on a press due to the force its often lethal, but on the plus side for a press it dont put as much stress into the metal at least as far as large piece forging goes that has to be annealed out we are talking drop forging type stuff or gun barrels though, and a press dont have to be built quite as heavy compaired to a hammer as evidenced by the commercially made ones by big blue hammer, and coal ironworks for example
I imagine the press would be good for making your initial divisions and set-downs on a piece, and then do the remainder of forging on the PH
That is a fairly efficient way to work
Buddy.... I'm not sure when people asked how you decide which you use ... they thought they were going to get insight based on PROXIMITY. :-) I think they mighta kinda meant the LOGIC.
Indeed! Is it just my bad memory, or did you remove the safety skirt over your power hammers lowers? It would make more sense for it to have a headache bar around the uppers, to grab on to in case you stumble at the machine (or at least give you a good shiner so you don't forget to work safely).
Thanks For Yet Another Great Informative Video John! The Light Changing Doesn't Bother Me At All, It's The Content Of Your Videos That I'm Here For, & What I Appreciate, Not The Lightness , Or The Slightly Out Of Focus That Happens Every Once In A Blue Moon. Like I've Said Before, I Love Watching The Say Mak Work. Keep Up The Great Work, Thanks Again !
I burned my hand today. Need to make some tongs
Thanks for the answer!
"It depends" is just as valid a reason as anything else .... and explains why you sometimes do what you do!
Press or hammer, let me see, oh, press does not yet exist, ok, back to hammer!
I saw the difference in how the steel moved with the press versus the power hammer the other day. They both have there advantages for sure.
John, I don’t care what tools you use, your using what ever tools you need or want to at that time, I’m not a black smith but I love to watch your videos, I’m a member of a model engineering club and it involves working with metal and as far as I’m concerned, your doing a great job teaching or educating people. 👍 🏴.
Thanks for the video. I want to get one or the other. I am more likely to get a press.
I just got done building a 40 ton press for less than $800. I really like how it works. I would like to build a treadle and power hammer also sometime.
now this is a relevant question I have been asking myself for a while now! Let's have a look :)))
I wish I had a shop like yours or the house to do it in.
But some day i get there.
Great video as usual. Timely as well since I'm collecting the parts for a press build. Seeing that squished axe head was "eye" opening😁 Making room for these things is just as difficult as building them.
Nah building them is miles easy, especially when you have to hide it from the prying eyes of the misses.
This is a great video I have often wondered this very question.
I unfortunately have neither, and can't afford either, but this was useful information for when I finally do get one of either!
Black bear iam most interested in forge/shop machines, tools from 1860-80. I keep hearing about rollers for many processes. Rolling steel. Do you know about these? Anybody?
I have seen a few knife makers that have made small rolling mills. I don't know of any old ones that might fit in a small shop.
Thanks so much for the reply, what iam trying to figure out is the machines involved in making bear traps the old bear traps had springs that where swaged and rolled out or triphammered out to proper length and shape. I would like to send you some pics if you would be kind enough to study there construction and speculate as to how they where manufactured. Contact mike by text at 306-516-7335
I built the Clay Spencer Tire hammer, as well as the Jim Batson plans 25 ton press. They both have their strong points.
I also built the Clay Spencer inline Treadle hammer. Another very useful tool.
Die alignment is much more critical in the press, and I built a easy to use keyed alignment system.
Excellent choice for a video covering this topic.
Hammer and anvil will always be the standard tool used the most, but when you get older no doubt the powered tools help body longevity.
Thanks for another great video John!!!
I've been thinking about that Clay Spencer Tire Hammer. Does it move metal well enough to justify the expense?
@@edgarbradford
Yes it does. Mine has a 57# hammer. Raymond Head who builds and sells these under license from Clay lives about 10 Mike's from me.
I had the chance to use his, and making the decision became a no brainer.
I build all my own equipment, so cost was about half of buying one, and Raymond gave advise when needed.
I have made flat dies, combo dies, and fullering dies for hammer forging.
It works very well.
Takes up little space with a 24" square baseplate.
Control is good, and sensitivity can be controlled by varying tire pressure.
I enjoy mine and use it often.
What kind of tools would one need access to to build one?
@@cholulahotsauce6166
A torch, drill press, good high amp welding machine (250 amp) hand tools, squares, a solid flat welding surface, a good selection of drill bits, up too maybe 1-1/4".
There are 2 jigs that must be made. One is a simple spacer, the other is a squaring fixture to align the hammer and anvil die mounting holes. That one is very critical and must be made square and true.
A shop crane or automotive "Cherry Picker" to lift the heavier pieces is handy unless you have a strong helper.
A band saw that cuts square is essential, and a grinder to clean up parts.
It's not a terribly hard build, but attention to alignment of parts is a must.
On a scale of 1-10, it's about an 8 with regards to difficulty.
I have 40 years of metal fabrication experience, so for me it wasn't that difficult, and my shop is well equipped with most every metal fabrication tool for just about any job. A helper with fabrication skills would be handy.
Order the plans from Clay Spencer, study the plans and see if it's in your range of experience to tackle.
Good luck with it should you decide to build it.
Well worth the effort in my opinion,
I love your video's and I wish you were my Shop Teacher back in High School :)
My mind works a lot like johns I think In hammer blows not in squeezing ... I do have a fly press I do have a 30 ton press and. I have a power hammer all are home made . I engineered them all with what I saw them used for and I would and could use in my shop! My first build was a treddle hammer and it was and still is one of my go to tools then of course to power hammer. But my main tools are hammer anvil and forge ... and When folks stop in too see a man working I always pick up hammer in one hand and tongs in the other ... the other night I was grilling porter house steaks 🥩 on grill , I found myself looking for my tongs to flip the steaks over with and my hammer to thin out a big bulge on a steak ! Just was a funny thought my mind went to as I have been in my shop a lot lately making a friend a bunch of hinges pulls and shelf holders for his rustic 1870s kitchen remodel? Old model? I believe John said it correctly us old smiths think in hammer blows where younger kids like Alex Steele use a press way more then I .
Honestly, with blog type videos like this one, the talk is more important than the picture, so I'm actually working on another window while I listen, and only look back when you need to show me something (like the crack in the axe eye) I can see how the brightness fluctuating could be annoying though. In a regular tutorial it could be distracting.
Fantastic video. Besides efficiency/practical concerns, are there any differences in the final steel composition between pressing and hammering? I understand pressing creates a more drastic differential cooling, causing internal metal to move more than external metal, but is that a problem? Does pressing create stress risers on the surface and make the steel more prone to cracking, particularly in terms of bladesmithing?
I’m undecided. Collecting parts for both types. What ever I rummage first is what I’ll build. Peace out ✌️
I use my press to get a head start on a 2 to 5 inch round to bring it closer to 1/4 inch before i form my blades on the power hammer. Without my 100ton press id be standing infront of the power hamner for days on end.
Anyways, what was I talking about? *jump cut*
Let's face it, your power hammer is a sweet piece of equipment that you plain just like using. I think it's the same for any tradesman. There might be a better tool but if it's no fun then what's the point?
Unless I win the lottery or something I'm not likely to get either one. I would probably go for a power hammer if that were to happen. I'm still a hobbyist and I'd get one to save wear and tear on my shoulders. I don't do enough work to justify the cost that's all.
Thank you so much, John. I guess I was watching axe-making videos and your process was so different that Liam Hoffman's like in this video ruclips.net/video/WbHicVK4Pl0/видео.html that I wanted to know what led to your choice of the power hammer over the press.
Yep a quandary, thanks for the info👍👍👍👍
Excellent points and good info for my future path when tooling up. Thanks
Good topic. Every tool has its uses. Lol. Some times one feels like a hamner sometimes he dont.
Seriously , it leads me to wonder if in using the press for say an eye...would it be prudent to use multiple passes say go a bit then drop in some coal dust then go abit more. Or would that just kinda defeat the purpose. Idk just pondering the idea.
Blessed days sirSir, Crawford out
..That's how i came up with my name. Someone ask why i do something.. Y-Not...!!
The power hammer with the constant hitting closes the gaps between the grains of the steel making the steel more dense so be able to hold an edge better and be able to get it sharper so for anything that will benefit from a more solid dense steel the power hammer is the way to go next time you are at a tool shop take two cheaper hammers and tap them together and take two forged hammers of the same weight and do the same and the cheep ones will ring high pitched the forged being dense will not
I've notice that your press takes longer than others to switch from faster travel to higher pressure, and most of the heat is gone. I don't know if there is a fix for that, but maybe it would be worthwhile if there is.
Great video and reasoning John. I don’t care about if the video lightness goes in or out it’s the knowledge and awesome content that matters
So if I missed your introduction of your power hammer sorry! Can you give me some information on it like cost, weight of power hammer and how you came to want this power hammer!
To bad you didn’t swage the cracked hammer from top! The dimple would not have been as much a factor!
Love your videos!
Have u ever tried to make a big pair of shears like for cutting limbs of trees
Have you ever tried a fly press, John?
🐾🔥⚒
He has videos on the fly press.
John has two videos on using the fly-press, one is actually titled "introduction to fly-press forging" I think. He is top notch in giving instructions without talking down to you. One of the best instructors I have ever come across.
Yes it does make sense ! I myself , the reason for not having a power Hammer is
( Money) , One Day , I would Love to have one ! The press
Does help my poor old Arms
On a good bit of work but back to the anvil I go which I enjoy!!
the rapid change in brightness might be because your camera settings is on auto
I would love to see the Little Giant at work.
"Power of the press"...so the pen is mightier then the sword? LOL!
As usual, good description on the thought process needed to make clear decisions on which tool to use and when.
I would be blessed to have either. Thanks for your thoughts John. ⚒ On!!!
Try building archimedes curl power hammer it will be cheap and simple
Thank You Black Bear Forge Once Again!
Great Video thank you. Another huge difference between the hammer and the press, is the inertia of the application of power to the hot metal. In order to explain easier I will use the example of whipping a table cloth out from a glass of water on the table.
Do this fast and the table cloth comes off and leaves the glass of water relatively undisturbed,(like a hammer would strike a drift going through a hammer eye) and you transfer very little energy to the area around the eye,
Pull the table cloth slowly and because there is no inertia between the slow moving table cloth and the glass, there is more friction and the glass will move with the table cloth.
the same applies to a slow moving press, forcing a drift into an eye. There is more friction between the sides of the drift and the sides of the eye so this is why the hot metal surrounding the eye becomes deformed.
When applying speed to the contact with the drift, as a hammer would, you get a cleaner penetration of the hot steel than if you apply the pressure without speed and inertia, like a press would....just my 2c
oh look a squirrel
Would a air hand held hammer be useable on blacksmith hammering?
They have some uses, but they aren't very good for general forging work
RUclips is killing you little guys with Ads...back to back ads, one after the other before you even introduce yourself. I click right out and into something else. Sorry to say i wanted to watch it but didnt.