god I hate opening a book that looks like it's gonna be about dragons and fairies but then it's 90 chapters of two dinguses from opposing kingdoms smooching and brooding
Could actually BE interesting because These Relationships in History Had massive political Impact but sadly they arent treated like Relationships that their Outcome can have Impact on the world and more Like High school Drama. There are multiple examples of civil wars and shifting alliances that have their Bases in Close Relationships between nobles or even the peasants that prefer one over the other
@@laisphinto6372 -Reason I picked up Romantasy: Oooh tragic romance?? POLITICS?? FANTASY -Reason I hate it: none of this is done, it is 13-16 year olds ideas of what is romantic.... *sighs*
@@Xatallais 16 year olds ideas about romance really just horny bird brains getting it? No want or interest in any actual feelings or deeper relationships?
What i hate is the most is the lack of world building and magic in a fucking fantasy in marketed fantasy romance. Tiktok stop falling for and hyping poorly written works
The whole concept of "romantasy" is fine on its whole, but the fact that most popular romance/fantasy books are JUST romances with an extremely bare bones fantasy world? That needs to stop. If I tell you I read a really good romance, you expect to read an interesting relationship between characters, and maybe the world or characters around them are interesting as well, but that's usually not the focus/a requirement. If I tell you I read a really good fantasy, THE LATTER IS A REQUIREMENT. The world, its denizens, the themes, the actual fantastical elements...if those aren't worth reading? It's not a very good fantasy. My friend is desperately attempting to get me to read Fourth Wing, but I'm super not into the world, and the characters seem really flat, so I'm not here for it. Fantasy featuring romance is SUPER common. Romance featuring fantasy...doesn't work unless you're willing to put equal effort into both parts of the genre.
This has been my whole struggle trying to find fantasy romance that I can enjoy. I've yet to find one for all the reasons you mentioned. Everything I've heard about Maas's books signals to me it would not be enjoyable, but it also seems like she's one of the few that puts any amount of effort into the world and plots surrounding the central sexy times. But those sexy times don't seem enjoyable either. *Sigh*
@jojobookish9529 honestly. The words chosen, the weird gender essentialism, the "mating" thing, the SHEER QUANTITY OF SMUT PER BOOK it just doesn't feel organic, earned, interesting, and definitely not sexy. It's so sad bc I don't *hate* ACOTAR, but I DO hate pretty much everything after ACOMAF. She lost the plot quite a bit and supplanted more smut where plot should've been imho.
@@ixeliemaeven the first book had cracks. I'm so dumb that i regularly spoil my game experiences by looking up the answers to puzzles but even I immediately figured out the answer to the riddle.
Then you are my audience! 😄🙌 I’m writing a YA fantasy series calling all that out, cause I hate it too 😤 Lookin at you Twilight, you codependent sociopath….
@@elaynegriffith I wrote a Beauty and the Beast retelling where the Beast is an elegant raven lady and Beauty is a compassionate young painter so I’m definitely in your bracket haha And I’m working on a thing that started as a complete overhaul of ACOTAR that has turned into Lord of the Rings with ladies 🤣
I can think of 2 things about abuse being literally romanticized in romantasies: 1. They (the authors) think it's a kink. Maybe they got it off 50 shades or 365 days, hell, even porn. Maybe they thought degrading = beat the shit outta someone either physically, mentally, or emotionally 2. I'm gonna go on a limb here and it might be a stretch but it might be because authors may not have experienced such abuse in their life? They must have seen trauma through the lens of a bystander or as someone who's never experienced it. I could be pulling out of my ass here but I might as well am, because I've never read ACOTAR series but heard it being distasteful when it comes to abuse and other sensitive topics.
That's not romantasy, that's dark romance being marketed as romantasy. Dark romance does have it's place, and some victims find comfort in those dark stories
@@darth_pepperoni27 the ACO trilogy is idiotic smutty fanfic disguised as fantasy. In addition, the supposed handsome perfect BF Rhysand is a controlling manipulator who never answers for his actions because the MC and him are fated to be together or something, plus the only reason why is because the author said so. The books change completely by the second volume but it doesn’t feel natural, it’s all because SJM wants the characters she wants to be together to end up together. There’s no nuance, no depth, nothing to indicate these characters could make these changes at all. It’s the playground excuse “because I said so” and it’s frankly insulting that this is as popular as it is. There’s no deeper theme or idea being explored, it’s just bad fanfiction that glamorizes an abusive relationship. Yuck.
I love a good, meaty romantic subplot threading through a fantasy series. If it's too much on the side ill be a bit sad, but I never ever want it to be the main focus.
i'm not even on the ace spectrum and i get very uncomfy when there's a sex scene with no warning in any piece of media like,,, if i want smut i'll actively search for it another thing that makes me irrationally angry is that every new fantasy book with an interesting premise is just romance in disguise and i'm not having it.
I think you'd enjoy "Where the River Meets the Soul" by S. Nicole💕 Is an ace fantasy romance with plenty of plot, good worldbuilding, and a genuine emotionally connective romance
Tbh I also struggle to find women-written horror for very similar reasons. I am super not interested in the glut of vampire and werewolf smut that seems to take up the horror shelves in my local bookstore. I absolutely get that that’s for some people and just not for me, but it makes it hard to both shop local and find good women-written horror.
I feel like the "new adult" genre is just a way of saying "this is YA-level prose quality with adult-level sexual content." Which, hey, I'm not knocking it since for some people that's what they want to read, but I'm so tired of it dominating the entire fantasy space. I'm a romance-repulsed aromantic and it's near impossible to find any modern fantasy that completely lacks romance.
There's an increasing aro/aspec presense in YA fantasy in particular though...I know Darcie Little Badger does #ownvoices ace rep and is romance-free. She does Native American inspired YA. Some childrens' fantasy (Chronicles of Narnia, The Dark Is Rising, etc.) lack romance because they are aimed at pre-puberty audiences, but the prose and stories hold up for adults. Howl's Moving Castle has a romance, but it is very subtle and doesn't really come in until the end as the FMC is magically transformed into an old lady for most of the story, so that could fill your need too. Hope that helps...
Yep! The few books I actually got thanks to the app are the ones that doesn't get hyped up unless in a really, REALLY niche section and minority. "Fast" by Millie Belizaire? Ugh! LOVE that book, but only BW in Booktok are hyping it up, but that's fine with me, as a BW, having that small sector of Booktok hyping it. Book relates to us more anyway, and is a good slice of life with romance at the end as a reward to the characters and us.
Another big indicator that romantasy books are all the same is with the trend of just summarizing books by their tropes (a trend I loathe beyond all compare) and every romantasy writer lists the same fucking tropes: - enemies to lovers (except he's always loved her and he's actually not - anti-heroes (aka the most 13-yr-old "edgy" understanding of morality) - forced proximity (the reasoning is always paper thin) - "touch her and you die" (ranging from protective to paternalistic/abusive) -grumpy/sunshine (or if the writer is feeling ""subversive,"" *reverse* grumpy/sunshine, because you know how tropes are gendered, right? only men can be grumpy and only women sunshine so we have to explicitly lay out that its different) - one bed/horse/tent/whatever the fuck ... ok I had more feelings than expected, but so much romantasy is just poorly written!! and i know readers could be enjoying so much more if they just expanded!! their!! reading tastes!!
omg yeah this is an issue i have with most booktok recs tbh, not just romantasy. tropes are excellent foundations to build your stories, characters and dynamics off of, but that's what they are. building blocks. people treat them as plot points that can stand on their own though. telling somebody that this book is an amazing enemies-to-lovers with a badass female protag and obsessive male mc doesn't say anything about the actual Plot. the actual contents of the book that most people want to know about. i'm all for read what you want, but i can't lie, i do find it a bit concerning that so many people are so stubborn and refuse to read beyond anything that checks off a few certain boxes for them? there's so many amazing books out there. so much you can learn.
I started writing a fantasy book purposefully excluding these cliches and unfortunately, it turns out, it is really hard to write chemistry without them. But it is possible.
I just wish they wouldn't transfer fanfiction tropes to real actual stories. Like, they're tropes for a reason. Not to say you can't do them, I love my anti-heroes. But to sell and market your book off of tropes just feels like you're advertising "hey I can't actually write well, I'm just giving you some vague ideas that if you squint... you'll know".
Thank you for this! I can't deal with romantasy if I'm honest, I get frustrated because it's so formulaic. Oftentimes times it seems like there's little effort being put into these worlds, especially regarding world-building or plot. I have learned that I can't trust Tiktok books anymore, which is sad. I want to enjoy what they're loving but I just can't.
I think a lot of booktokers are new to reading in general and were pretty obviously never on Wattpad or AO3, so they recommend a lot of stuff that is bad or just straight up Wattpad fanfiction. Which to veteran readers is obviously pretty frustrating, but I'd like to think it's only because they don't know any better.
You know, the problem with most romantasy books lately is that they don't bother building anything but rely on the work of the most popular books out there and assume readers know about the basics of those worlds so they don't have to explain. Same happens with omegaverse and shifter books. Authors can't be bothered to explain a thing and expect readers to "fill in the blanks" for them with what they know.
The worst part is that some authors not only half-ass the worldbuilding because their reader "surely will fill the blanks", they also half-ass the characterization and even the romance under the same excuse. James Tullos once said "things become clichés when authors stop justifying their inclusion in an story" in that sense a lot of romantasy are the most cliched stories ever writter, they barely explain why the characters do what they do or feel how they feel about eachother, and somehow the books are still 400-pages long
I hate when I read a five hundred page book only to find out that there are no memorable side characters, or any world building or attempt at fleshing out the world.
I was just talking with my book-ish friends about how I am so unsatisfied with the execution of "romantasy" books. I want to take away "fae" from writers, along with "enemies to lovers (but jk not really enemies)" and "velvet wrapped steel" 🥶 oh gosh, you just said "icicle penis" comment cancelled I don't remember what I was saying anymore.
Right? Fantasy is my favorite genre. I've also read some quite fun romances. In theory I'd like this mixed genre. But...not so much. I swear so many half ass both genres. I had some fun with ACOTAR but don't totally understand why it is SO hyped. And I know refuse to touch Fourth Wing
I'm not really a romantasy reader, so I did not know what "velvet wrapped steel" was and had to google. Someone give me some bleach, for my eyes need cleansing....
I am somewhat older than the target audience, and I really like fantasy, but I do not like romance of any sort in my escapism, this trend has me going "Wait, is this going to be a fantasy fantasy, or an abusive relationship disguised as one?". I want strange worlds and interesting stories. But up until this video, I always felt alone in this opinion. I want to go into a fantasy book without looking it up first, but it has become more difficult.
Ditto! I don't want to read ANY romantasy. I want real fantasy novels and real sci-fi. I can sometimes tell by the blurb on the book, and I'll download a sample to my Kindle if one is available. Even though I prefer to have no spoilers, at least I can get a feel for whether I am going to enjoy these books or not. For book box subscriptions, I'm looking at the spoiler pages for what the next book will be so I can try to avoid wasting my time and money.
I think it's beginning to be a similar thing to how many fantasy authors in the '60s and '70s were trying to copy Tolkien; they've become convinced that that's how this particular subgenre is written, so the carbon copies proliferate and the market becomes saturated with the same book over and over again. Yesterday I finally finished the whole ACOTAR series after a friend of mine was screaming at me that I needed to read them. It's safe to say that they weren't really for me (although I have no problem with smut, it deffo has its place). I'll say it's a good thing I didn't read ACOSF in public, I would have been blushing so hard. My biggest pet peeve was Maas's insistence in spelling out what the characters were going through mentally rather than letting the reader work it out for themselves. It's a telling rather than showing approach to writing that I really don't vibe with at all. Maybe it's because I'm a guy? (or "MALE" as SJM would christen me), but I am a great big soppy romantic at heart and I wanted to love them. My friends (or as I now call them, "FEMALES") keep telling me that character growth is her strongest point. But I don't know, the character development just felt fairly standard issue to me and I'm not convinced SJM has the gusto or the risk factor to let her readers encounter the properly strange and unusual; I like an author throwing me for a loop in a book I haven't read before. I guess the appeal for some romantasy readers is the familiarity of them all; a derivative book of the fae smut kind can give you all of the comfort of a re-read even if you're technically reading something new. Whilst I think cosyness is a good quality to have in sweaters, I don't think it's necessarily an admirable quality in books. Anyways, if all these books you're talking about are basically ACOTAR reheated until the magic boils away, and the sex scenes lose their steaminess, then I can only imagine what a lot of them must be like, it's probably best for me to give them a wide berth. Thank you so much for taking the bullet for me haha, I hope you know how much we all appreciate what you do, you are amazing.
Try Priory of the Orange Tree and the prequel if you haven’t already! I loved it, it’s NOT Romantasy, it’s solidly fantasy (sword and sorcery) with a little sprinkling of romance Or as I like to call it, lesbians and swords haha
Nope as a woman I completely agree with you. Maas doesn't trust her readers to work anything out, everything is written to death in internal monologues that destroy any semblance of pacing.
100% agree that Romantasy is NOT fantasy. It's romance in a fantasy setting or using some fantasy color. The tropes and storylines are romance, and appeal to romance readers--who are the people it needs to be marketed to. Marketing it to fantasy readers just causes frustration. We need also to more clearly delineate YA vs New Adult vs Adult. There's so much YA that is way too explicit for the lower end of the YA age bracket, especially with the non-consensual or coercive stuff that's so common. Another problem is that romance writing right now is full of toxic relationships (no, that doesn't make them "dark") ... also ableist, fat-phobic, and often racist. Yes, there are exceptions, but the big names in the genre have all of these issues. Not to mention that it tends to be poorly written/edited, from a technical writing standpoint--but my taste is more literary than most folks, including most fantasy readers, so I'm not sure I'm reasonable there.
OH. And I had convinced myself I just hated romance, especially in my fantasy... but I recently picked up my favorite book for a re-read. Little, Big by John Crowley has the sweetest romance story in the opening chapters. The book is an epic, spanning generations, so it's not all about the love story--but the love story is just so sweet and magical.
“Marketing it to fantasy readers just causes frustration.” YES!! That’s exactly my issue! I hate that I have to research books to make sure I’m not gonna get gobsmacked with a romance masquerading as fantasy. If I want to read a romance, I’ll look for one, but I prefer fantasy. I absolutely love dark fantasy but have given up on the genre because it’s all smut. I thought reading more grimdark would influence my algorithms, but I keep getting suggestions for Fourth Wing, ACOTAR, and the like. It’s incredibly frustrating
Traditionally published YA is never explicit, the problem comes with self-published authors abusing the popularity of the YA genre and not respecting it's boundaries or actual audience
my problem very simply is when I pick up a fantasy I want a FANTASY. NOT a romance DISGUISED as a fantasy. I don't mind romance in general, and sometimes I'm in the mood for it, but I'm tired of being recommended "great fantasy books" that "everyone must read" and people clearly leaving out that romance is actually the main plot of them. I can't trust any fantasy book that looks interesting anymore.
can't really trust those either. they'll say something like "an epic adventure that's hard to put down." then you read it and romance is 90% of the plot. the opposite happens too. blurbs, summaries and reviews can talk all about the romance in the book but then it only ends up being a small portion of the plot. I just wish it wasn't so misleading either way so people could know what to pick up and what to avoid. @@rhi_danceswithwolves
As a MENA girlie, if I see one more white woman say that the Illyrians are POC and then post a picture of Henry Cavill as Rhysand, I’m gonna start going for throats. I love romantasy as a concept, but I haven’t found one I’ve actually liked.
But yeah, i gotta agree with you, I love the concept of romantasy, and I have read so many GREAT romantasy fanfics so why is it so hard to find a good book? As an aspiring writer, this is going to be my fucking goal istg. Imma make a good romantasy book to meet my own needs
Just in case someone didnt know, the old ancient greek region of 'illyria' is a big national talking point in albanian rap music, so the most cultural rep SJMaas can point to are balkan rappers.
I love the concept of romantasy. I hate the execution of romantasy. I hate the abuse as trope, the overly possessiveness disguised ans protection and these boys that will support their ladies with the bare fucking minimum and be praised and "feminist kings". The only few good romantasy books I've read have been queer which helps take the abusive relationships from the equation, but obly a couple have TRULY made the world feel like fantasy. I wish we could have good romantasy. I truly do. The idea has so much potential for all the drama goodness, but it is so formulaic and underexplored, i hate it.
I find myself rereading a lot of books. But there are some great romances but I feel like I'm looking for a needle in haystack looking for a new great romance that leaves me breathless
@@somethingclever8916 So true!! I would say 99/100 new fantasy romances feel like lazy, disrespectful cash grabs. I’ve been reading a lot of webtoons lately to soothe my craving, they’re still tropey but it’s not as manipulative as traditional books in the genre can be
@@spacebar9733 Hard agree. There’s a huge hole in the publishing industry for really fantastic romantic fantasy books. They keep peddling out trash to mid books- obvious cash grabs. I liked Fortuna Sworn too, but I agree I wasn’t sold on the romance at all
Some of these authors should just have been writing paranormal, they keep sprinkling weirdly anachronistic things into a Renaissance inspired fantasy world. Like bras. And flush toilets
I feel like I'm going to cry because I legit feel so fecking HEARD right now. *TW: Suicidal Thoughts is mentioned* I was an author for a while. I did fantasy, but my stuff got destroyed bc it wasn't "spicy" and much more classic YA style like Graceling. I tried doing the "romantasy" thing but with a very slow romance and a main focus on the world, got crap for that too. (Even had ppl hate me bc I had gay characters and accused me of "being too woke" ) I couldn't be me. I couldn't write the stories I wanted to write. I had to follow what everyone else was doing if I wanted even a sliver of a chance of making something of an income and I hated it so much. For me, the entire thing got so toxic and so hateful that I was in an extremely bad mental state where I had to choose between my literal life and trying to make my stuff work and stepping away and doing something else entirely. Literally leaving the entire indie author world was the best thing I could do for my sanity. I am a good study and I saw this craze getting worse and worse and also somehow lazier and just as you said, carbon copies. I saw thousands claiming to be the next ACOTAR. The drama, the toxicity, the hatefulness, etc. It was just getting WAY too much. I guess I say all of this to give an author's POV on the literal hell I went through trying to be an indie woman author writing fantasy bc that's what readers expected of me, to be like all the other indie women authors out there writing this to be the next SJM or Jennifer Armentrout. I'm not saying every author writing this is awful, but it does feel... idk, like they are just following a trend and not really caring about anything else. Romantasy, IMO, is just people wanting to write romance but bc that entire market is literally the most toxic out there, they are moving to add the fantasy element bc the market isn't AS saturated. But now? I would say its JUST as saturated at this point. They will say it's YA when there is *so much* adult content in it. As you said, lowering the character's age just to say they can market it to YA audience. I think even the trad publishers have some sort of limit with that. Granted, according to Brandon Sanderson, they usually don't "examine YA books for their content" as much as they do for like MG. Why? idk. To put it simply, it feels like the industry taught me that it's all about the trendiness with tiktok, insta, etc and nothing to do with actual quality or trying something new bc if it doesn't go viral on tiktok or whatever, it's basically a failure. I honestly can't tell you how much it relieves me to hear you and read all these comments from people who feel similar to me and are seeing the stuff I've been seeing for years. That is all to say, thank you all for making me feel less alone and heard and not crazy bc part of the toxicity I dealt with was being told that I was crazy and stupid for saying "hey, I think we have a problem growing here." And having like any sort of criticism about it. Even in the sense of like "hey, I'm not sure a teenager should read this kind of toxic romance."
Have you been doing better as of late? Also, would your works still be published or readable? they sound exactly like the kind of thing i like reading and i've been having issues finding them (this could be so out of place here i'm so sorry if it is)
I'm really sorry this happened to you. How fucking awful. I hope you don't give up on writing. Writing is for YOU first and foremost. Fuck trends. It's so hard to stay away from what people say but I think it's the best way. I'm planning to self publish and use a pen name. I really don't have any nerves for this shit whatsoever. We desperately need good storytellers in this weird world. You seem to have a good way about it. Don't give up❤
Definitely keep writing for yourself & you'll find the niche who will follow you 🫂 I'm learning this as an artist as well, & started to find my audience w/in it. I could easily for fandom art all day, but my traditional canvases got some good sets of eyes on them, & that's enough for me. So keep writing & let us know too! I would love to check out your stories 😄
Don't give up on your dreams. The world is toxic, unhealthy, and unfair. Being in the arts means you will be criticized. It's part of the job. A lot of writers take years to decades to find their voice and find their audience.
My girlfriend loves romance. My girlfriend loves fantasy. And she loathes a good chunk of the romantasy genre! She says she needs a good fantasy setting and good world building before she can even acknowledge a love story. So I couldn't help but share this video with her and hearing her say "YES EXACTLY!" to so many of your points had me howling. EDIT: WOAH world shaking to know ACOTAR was published as YA.
I grew up reading the bodice rippers of the 70s and 80s (TALK about non-con being romanticized) and the fanfiction of the 90s and 00s. This new wave of published new adult fiction is literally just a carry over of that - people who read a lot of fanfic and the fanfic writers making “content they want to see” being picked up by my same generation of fanfic readers who are now publishing agents.
this is so spot-on, especially considering A LOT of popular romance/YA/NA being published right now originally started as fanfiction (just off the top of my head: The Mortal Instruments, that After series or whatever, some of Ali Hazelwood's works, and of course, Fifty Shades of Grey.)
Yes. As a writer attempting to get published, these agents and editors act like they’ve never heard of anything but fantasy romance. “Epic fantasy? Never heard of it.”
They think it sells because that's what people like instead of considering that it sells in part because that's what there is. Other options aren't published, so people "have" to buy books that fit into the boxes publishers want.
So frustrating! Especially when they say "a reason why you might not get an agent is because you use cliches". Babe! You just published 10 copies of ACOTAR
With Romantasy I think an issue is that the focus doesn't feel something you are investing in. I have read manga's that are a fantasy romance like it is a simple world building, but you get invested with the character and their journey. With Romantasy it feels more like girl boss gets the Rhysand/Kylo Ren clone. I love a romance but I need to see it bloom and develop. I think it's because most of these books were originally fanfics
I just hate how books aren’t seen as reading without romance. Someone was reviewing a MIDDLE GRADE fantasy series and their primary criticism was there WASNT ROMANCE. IN A MIDDLE GRADE SERIES
Here’s the thing: I love fantasy. And I love romance in fantasy. But I HATE how romantasy is absolutely devoid of real romance. These aren’t people who love each other. These are people lu$ting obsessively over each other. And that’s not what I want. Unless it’s intentionally twisted and messed up, then that’s kind of interesting.
Everything you said in this video is everything I've been feeling about the latest trends within the fantasy genre, specifically within the genre that is targeted toward women/young girls. But you articulated it a lot better than I ever could. I don't mind fantasy romance, I've read my fair share and loved but a few of them, but overall don't have anything against the genre itself. It's the way publishing, publishing has started to care more about the next best "spicy" fantasy romance that I have an issue with, ESPECIALLY when its walking the fine line between the adult audience but still making the MC just young enough that it can be marketed toward teens. For example, Red Towers Books, their slogan is "Everything you love about YA but make it spicy" there is just something yuck about that to me. Fantasy marketed towards the female audience is starting to become a cesspool of lazy writing, half-assed world building, idiotic FMCs, and even worse mediocre love interests. And I hate it. Like female-popular books/genre are already seen as the lesser in both trad and indie publishing industry, and this whole "market-popularity over quality" only adds to this this issue, in my opinion. I can forgive indie because of the lack of resources, but traditional publishing has no excuse for their low quality books. What is the solution to all this, IDK, I'm just ranting.
That YA but spicy makes me puke, the fvk FBI??? But oh they're all barley legal 18/19* year olds so that makes it okay some how yuck *the FMC will always be a badly legal teen girl but the male love interests will ALWAYS be grown ass adult men twice her age 🤢
As a reader, imho pillow talk is fine, morning scenes where two lovers just have a candid conversation and character development occurs are also fine, but sex scenes themselves are too often self-serving. I'd argue there's a lot more to be gained from not showing them vs showing them. Example: in The Lion's game by N.Desmilles, there's an entertaining "pre-sex" scene between two characters where the atmosphere is set, their proximity is apparent, and when the guy follows the girl in the shower then "fade to black" it feels natural. The next thing the author shows is a cozy scene of the two main characters having breakfast in the morning and chitchat ing. The reader didn't need the sex scene in the middle - the before and after were plenty!
Especially when those sex scenes are badly written. Another thing that I really hate is when the author solely relies on sex scenes to show the love between the characters. Looking at you ACOTAR...
Jesus fucking christ THANK YOU, I've been saying this for literal MONTHS NOW. I'm a huge fantasy lover, and I sincerely don't care if a book has a romance subplot, if anything makes me care more about the characters, but holy crap the amount of romantasy that social media and the internet have tried to shove down my throat is exhausting. Since June I've been looking to expand my reading collection, since I'm getting back into the hobby after years or depressive episodes, and all I was getting recommended was romantasy, everywhere. Anyone can read whatever they want, but as a reader and writer I need to see other people's work on fantasy to see how I can improve my own. I don't like romantasy, at all, and I'm tired of people calling it fantasy when, at most, is smut and poorly written romance with some sprinkles of magic and fae. That is not fantasy, that's poorly hidden kinks. After much researching, I finally found books that are closer to my taste, and actually well developed fantasy worlds and characters. Im tired of any person that I talk to about books only bringing up romantasy. I get it, it's easy to read and mind numbing, but it's not helpful to me as a writer when most of those books are not edited at all and have good ideas but horrible executions. And the worst part is that many of these authors have the potential to write better pieces, but lack the knowledge of the basics for writing a good story.
„I'm tired of people calling it fantasy when, at most, it’s smut and poorly written romance with sprinkles of magic” THANK. YOU. I have the feeling fantasy isn’t the only genre that is hijacked by "romance". Thrillers have the same problem. I bought a book because of it’s interesting premise (the protagonist made a program that could calculate when and where serial killers would make their next kill) but the author never did anything with it. It was a mere hook for the trashy romance between the tall and muscular serial killer (of course, he only kills bad guys) and his quirky kidnapping victim. I looked into reviews for clarification when the protagonist was being kidnapped and instead of worrying for her safety she „lost herself in the strong arms” of her kidnapper. Seriously, the romance genre has to be one of the most (if not the most) low-class and undemanding genres there is
@@c.s2193 Right? I had the same experience with another thriller that didn't even solve the mystery. It focused more on the relationship between the male main protagonist and the suspect of the murders (who was incredibly annoying, and I felt that she was nothing but a burden to the story), but given how the book had good worldbuilding and atmosphere (and other *better* characters), I feel the publishers forced the author to create that romance, because it felt really out of place, and it wouldn't be the first time that publishers force a writer to implement an element in their story just because its "trendy"
@@adrianavanhoofrodriguez576 I’ve heard that too, especially in the fantasy genre (I wonder why). It’s as if suddenly every novel NEEDS to have a romance, otherwise people will get bored by it. It’s just sad and so discouraging to see, especially as a writer myself
@@c.s2193 Because now romance and smut are trendy, specially on tiktok cause it sells really well (despite the debatable quality of the story and characters), so you and I as fellow writers feel discouraged and worried about our projects, because we will never know if they'll sell well just because a brain dead algorithm that promotes consumerism prefers to focus on the equivalent of fast food literature
@@c.s2193 And it sucks how romance is being treated bc it can be great with slice of life. Anime/manga proved it is with Fruits Basket, My Happy/Blissful Marriage, Kimi Ni Todoke, Skip & Loafer, and (with fantasy) The Ancient Magus' Bride. There's even more I can add, but these hold a special place in my heart. Idk why in the west authors are dumbing romance all the way down. It can open up a lot of hard hitting topics connected to society even in fantasy. They're passing the meat & potatoes for the desserts that has a cherry on top, and grabbing just the cherry 🤦🏿♀️
It feels to me like this is the result of a specific trend becoming mainstream - shipping and fanfiction. Hear me out, I'm not coming for fanfiction. It's just that a shitty aspect of it has come into the real world and dominated the publishing industry, purely because publishers decided to capitalise on the popularity of shipping. Drama and picking sides sells. Look back at many of the popular fantasy series that were trend setters in the field, like Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games etc and consider the people who read those books, but all the themes just went over their heads. Instead, the only thing they took away from the stories was Team Edward! Team Jacob! Team Peeta/Gale... Some of these folks then wrote fanfiction, because they wanted to indulge in their ship, often creating toxic, dramatic alternate universes where the characters are basically superficial cardboard cut-outs of the originals, because the 'author' totally missed the whole point of the story or what the characters even represent... These romantasy books have that energy. It's just the author coming up with another knock-off witless heroine (entirely missing what made the original fan favourites actually likeable) and giving her a couple hunky douchebags to hop between, then sprinkling in some half-baked fantasy ideas that they lack the skill/care/interest to actually flesh out. I don't have an issue with people consuming this type of media, their reasons are valid whatever they may be. The issue comes with the way these stories are then spread. Most of them have typos, plot holes, issues galore... No editor had ever set eyes on them, clearly. The themes, if you can find them, are terrible. The worlds make no sense. The characters are stupid, charmless, or downright cruel, etc. Then these books get marketed as FANTASY romance! TWO words. And fantasy comes first! The fact they falsely advertise this stuff to fantasy readers who come in with certain expectations; standards that are well established within the fantasy genre FOR A REASON... FUCK. SAKE. Drives me up the wall. This isn't bending the rules or pushing boundaries, it is straight up tricking people out of their hard-earned cash. AND it is potentially harmful when it inevitably gets pushed to an impressionable audience! You're peddling unpolished nonsense that you didn't even take the time to proof read, never mind comb out anything straight up offensive. Authors, if it's reading like half-assed fanfiction that you typed up while squatting over the shitter, you have NO business taking people's money for it. What's worse is there are some authortubers who give WRITING ADVICE telling people that if they want to write romantic fantasy, they "don't need to worldbuild as much", as if it's some kind of loophole you can use to hide your lack of fucks given/inability to tie shit you've made up into a coherent system. If you want your romance to just have fantastical elements, just write and market it as such! Ain't difficult to just call it what it is and save people the bad experience. The saddest thing is that these stories thrive off of the bad reviews. People raising genuine concerns about the harmful portrayals or themes in these stories just add more views to the hashtags. That, in turn, encourages other equally ignorant fools with a keyboard to churn out their own totally original 'work' about a witless heroine and her two hunky douchebag love interests... Oh wait-
Every time I see someone on both TT & YT saying screw world-building, don't know what that is. They think it's just making up a setting when it's really making a setting & why the world operates the way it is. Hell, even making a story in Chicago still requires world-building cause it answers questions! Why are the characters taking this route instead of that? Why is the Westside chara acting dif from Southside & Northside charas? What's in this location and why? They all connect back to the story! It's like when Stephanie Meyer moved Bella to Washington, but only built the place up a bit. Why did the vampires choose that spot too, and don't give me the short answer from the book?! If anything Forks, Washington is the worst place for vampires to be in bc of the population even if they are "vegetarian" vampires. Maine, Alaska, and Canada would be better for them to get moose at the very least. See what I mean?
I just want to stop having to research books on my phone in Barnes and Noble to make sure I’m not about to buy borderline porn disguised as epic fantasy. I’m so done with it.
reading romantasy when you expect fantasy with some romance is like asking for ketchup with some fries and being given two fries with an uncleaned oil drum full of ketchup and every time it happens i lose more faith in the publishing industry
the only way I can excuse barebone worldbuilding in romantasy is if it's deliberately set up like a fairytale like An Enchantment of Ravens, A Far Wilder Magic, and Silver in the Wood. They're not plot-heavy and if the worldbuilding is too enforced I think it would take away from the whimsical, dreamy, kinda folktale-ish feeling of the works. Weirdly enough, I also think the biggest problem with romantasy is (I really don't know how else to phrase this) heteronormativity. It's the perfect genre for writers to go ham writing a romance that doesn't rely on traditional gender roles inseparable from IRL. Also just the idea of a grand love story prevailing through the end of the world, strange prophecy, curses, and anything else not possible in contemporary setting is extremely appealing. But most of the time, it's just another girl in a patriarchal world being impressed that her boyfriend sees women as humans :/
I love An Enchantment of Ravens! It's definitely a fairytale-esque book. I wish I could find more books like that. That book really manages to use the small world building it has effectively.
I just hate romance as a genre. I'm fine with romance being in the plot of any other genre, but I have never been interested in a romance-focused plot.
The first time I’m using the word validated oh my God this video made me feel SEEN😭 I despise romantasy, it’s totally infiltrating the book market with meaningless smut, poor writing, and cookie-cutter romance stories.
I've never heard of romantasy. As someone who is trying to self publish, I was tried of where most stories were headed like you mentioned. I want to self publish because for multiple reasons: A urban fantasy that deals with the plot first and romance later, diversity I am black and could not find werewolf books with characters like me and not an erotic, and wanted a monster werewolf and not what Meyer crapped out. To be fair my book has a romance but it is not the main focus. Stuffs going down and that has to be figured out first before more bad things occur.
One of the Youth Librarian's daughters wanted to read the A Court of Thorns and Roses series, seeing as how it was super popular, he decided to read it to see what it's all about. Next day the entire series got moved to Adult Fantasy and we now dub it the "Fairy Porn Books" as an inside joke. Didn't stop teens from checking it out or requesting it (still is popular right now), I just found it kind of funny.
I don't usually read any kind of romance books, but there is one romantasy that I do recommend: "Silver in the Wood". It's gorgeously written and has an amazing folktale-ish atmosphere. Also, even if the plot is simple (reminiscent of an actual fairytale), the book isn't j u s t about the romance (it's all about the vibes, honestly). It's just amazing (and really short, so definitely worth giving a try)!
"I don't have a problem with sex scenes, the problem is that they're written like they're intended for 7th graders" THANK YOU for putting into context why I can't stand these books and why I would probably try reading them if they weren't written so... simply? Poorly? Idk. 😭
I have a number of friends and students (I’m a college English prof) who’ve read A Court of Thorns and Roses, and I read the first book, too. I actually read it around when it first came out while I was waiting for, I think it was Tower of Dawn. So I’ve had YEARS to think about this. And I have 4, I think, Major Problems with the way SJM writes romance: 1. The one that jumped out at me to the point that I can’t unsee it anymore is: when one of her couples is expressing their love physically, she has a list of two dozen expressions and phrases to describe what happens and it seems like she rolls some dice and adds some of those expressions. You could probably build a Bingo card for it. 2. Because of the formulaic nature of her love scenes, you could replace the names of the couple involved with the names of any other two characters, and the scene would still work. There’s no action or expression of love or often even dialogue to differentiate one couple from another while they’re involved in the physical act of love. 3. When her couples share a scene, especially after their first time sleeping together, they are either making love or arguing about which one gets to sacrifice their life either for the other one or to save the world. As a student of, observer of, and participant in human behaviour, a couple that does nothing but make love or argue is not healthy. 4. There’s no dating period. None of her couples go on more that three actual dates. There’s no weekly dinner and a show, there’s no regular evening walks together, there’s no curling up on the couch with a pizza and a movie, there’s no taking a cooking class together or learning to ballroom dance or Thursday night board game night. She’s completely ignored the process of the two individuals becoming one couple through shared experiences. She skips over that completely. That’s 4, but I have one more observation: grand romantic gestures are great ways to get a first date, but they are terrible foundations upon which to build a shared life. If the person you’re with doesn’t want to spend extended amounts of time with you doing regular human activities, but will hire a marching band to surprise you at work, they’re not actually interested in *you*; they’re interested in *romance*.
As an aroace guy who's obsessed with fantasy those books piss me off. I've read fanfics on AO3 which were better written, had better worldbuilding, and didn't have a dull and abusive romance as its main plot. Now whenever I see a potentially interesting book I always have to double check that it's not smut disguised as fantasy.
I've started just avoiding books where the summary makes a big deal about a love interest. I'm sure they aren't all ones like *this* but if a big part of the story is something I'm utterly disinterested in I'm probably not going to like it either way y'know?
As someone who was a tween/teen during the whole dystopia craze and devoured absurdly long fanfics all the time I think that self-insert, poorly developed romantacy books do well because they feel and read like a 2014 wattpad fanfic without the negative connotations. Maybe for someone who never liked traditionally published books as a kid and only ever read fanfics online, many of these series give them the emotions of fanfic with the bonus of having a physical copy and an air of legitimacy. Another reason why this may be popular is because reading is no longer something kids and teens are being bullied for liking and it’s seen as a perfectly normal hobby, so now adults who never read see the cool aesthetics of booktokers and want to read for the first time without gaining the skills to enjoy high fantasy/traditionally published books. Idk if this has any validity just something I’ve been thinking about
And for context: I don’t like romantacy, I’ve fully grown out of the writing style indie books usually have, but I feel like the self-insert, splash of fantasy fanfics I read as a 13 year old were important to my development as a reader. Those books largely aren’t for us, they’re for adults just now getting into reading and want the subject matter of adult books but at a lower reading level
I recommend Raven Cycle! The characters are so well written and it’s also about romance but in the perfect amount and setting. And it’s not the typical bad guy/ naive girl trope.
I’m so tired of it. I can’t find ANY BOOKS anymore that aren’t the same exact stupid ass plot with the hypermasculine love interest and a “small petite defenseless” protagonist.
I actually just started reading ACOTAR (recommended by my wife) and I'm halfway through. As a 32 year old man it just feels extremely awkward for me to be reading certain passages. So far I'm interested in the world and creatures but i cant stand the main character idk i cant really explain fully why. I enjoy romance in stories as long as it's not the main focus.
Omg yes, yes to all of this. The sad thing is, these books would be so much more interesting if it wasn't just the same formula repeated over, and over, and over, and over again. Instead of insta love/fated mates, give me slow burn. Instead of a dumb heroine who can't focus on much of anything beyond the hawt love interest, give me a heroine who has her priorities straight and focuses on her goal above all else, instead of romance being the main focus in a fantasy book, make fantasy the main focus and romance the side plot. Like, it doesn't seem that hard, but these people make it look like it's damn near impossible.
Girl, you are my HERO. I have absolutely detested this genre of writing for years because I always felt it was shallow, minimum effort, and did little to create an actual plot outside of the romance aspect; not to mention the romances were always so wack and intangible. There was nothing real and complex about them, they were cheap. I genuinely tried to read and like these books, because it seemed a vast majority of people, including my friends, really liked them, but I could barely make it past the first few pages. You are saying EXACTLY what I seethe about every time I visit the bookstore and have to even look at these books haha
I especially dislike this combination of romance and fantasy because of how uncreative it is. A fantasy world has so much potential for interesting lore and magic and all around cool stuff. You could do so much and yet you just want me to sit through two losers pining for each other and nothing else? The way to make it work is to make the book a fantasy adventure first and maybe some romance on the side if you want to.
Backstory of me: been reading since elementary school, but manga in middle school to now really kept me reading bc of how far the stories go than what we have in the west. I like romantasy when reading manga, manhwa, & some fluffy YA. the reason being is how they merge romance & fantasy really well w/o one overpowering the other UNLESS it was clearly stated in the beginning/summary. The world-building along w/ character building are gold in the stories I've read, & I'm able to bounce out of the ones I don't care for. I can't really do that w/ books here bc they make it seem from the summary theres going to be this awesome fantasy world & story w/ romance sprinkle about only to be two characters doing the do. Not even romance bc the characters are instant love at first sight & barely have any connection. As an aroace person, i need build up and intimacy. Two people being angry at each other then next chapter making out is not what I'm in for. Doesnt help that the loud side of the community wants boiling water smex scenes than world-building. Ive seen comments on stories where people said they are there for the smut not the plot/story like what is the point then? If i want just smut, I'll go to WP or AO3 & at least be satisfied! Is it so hard to ask for world-building fantasy, interesting characters, and a dash of smut in the west?! 😫😭
I maintain that the Warcraft novels somehow managed to do fantasy romance better than any romantasy ever could. You get an ancient wizard sending his apprentice on a suicide mission to rescue a dragon. Turns out the dragon is the wizard's wife. You get two elves falling head over heels for each other but being totally oblivious of the other's feelings because they're just too busy fighting the demonic horde invading their world. You get a ruler braving a dream hellscape to rescue her husband who's been turned into a tortured tree.
I just wish the sex scenes weren't so god damn cringe, like whether you like smut or not, these scenes are just the worst. I'm wondering whether there are good erotica out there.
I’m so happy to be here. I can’t stand seeing every single “fantasy” recommendation list being full of high effort smut. Just give me castles and dragons and magic.
What I find fustrating is that agents and publishers MAKE us compare or make comparisons to other books if we want a single chance to be considered to be repped, of course, when I write, I shouldn't HAVE to think about this, why can't my works stand on their own?? So this is another reason we keep getting the same stuff going over and over and over again.
Not gonna lie, a lot of this is why I tend to stick to mostly middle grade. They are fun fantastical romps with minimal romance and definitely no smut. It’s a fun time without a lot of the annoying character drama 😂
I was literally having a conversation last night about how some of my booksta mutuals keep doing those "bookish red flag" posts that I'm sure are mostly jokes. But nearly all of them say not having any smut or spice is a red flag for them. With others using straight up adult video sounds to make reels about the books they're reading. It seems so weird to me to ONLY read smut. And especially to be consuming these badly written ones for like 8 hours a day. I'm glad people are reading but I'm confused and constantly trying to figure out if this is just left over purity culture bullshit making me uncomfortable or is it really just.... weird?
Funnily enough, this derivation problem was also a huge thing in romance writing of the 1950s. Georgette Heyer, one of the few romance writers I read (she’s a genuinely great historical novelist), often had to deal with Barbara Cartland and others taking whole characters and descriptions from her work.
You're right and you should say it. Romantasy is not only one of the most extreme cases of false advertising ever (as an aroace person its grip on the fantasy genre actually makes me feel incredibly isolated) but it is almost always nothing more than a self-insert escapist fantasy for exclusively white hetero women. I don't mean to be crass but that's what it is. Not even going to bring up the issues of romanticizing abuse because I will literally explode. It's not even that I care that these books exist; I care because they have basically taken over the entire genre. Like can we tone down the hive mind guys
Yesssss ! This 100%. I love fantasies and while I dont mind the idea of romance fantasies i hate that its never what I hope for for the exact reasons you say. Its so frustrating and even more frustrating to see it constantly take over the fantasy genre in recs, categories etc. I want a great world and complicated character dynamics and a romance that isnt just a kink or fetish put into a book (which is fine as books should be safe spaces to explore most of the time but again not what I look for). You put it so well and I dont think any of it even came across as mean or anything!
"Feels like they were written for seventh graders." Because it was. This is what happens when our education system is gutted. We have grown-a$$ adults that can't read. The few that do leave reviews on novels written with standard adult language to describe them as "tedious, pretentious, and long winded," because it uses words with more than one syllable. 😾 Here's the thing, i actually like the idea of romantasy. Something to shake up my epic fantasy books, but literally everything i tried i feel like the people who recommended them either dont have eyes, or they listened to them all on audio and the NARRATOR carried the stories. In some ways, that fact makes me angrier that romantasy is pushed so hard. 😅 I was pretty excited for some of those books, and they were all such a letdown. 😢 And NOW, that I've decided the genre isn't for me, they DISGUISE themselves as normal fantasy books, but its still the same garbage I was trying to avoid. I'm going nuts here, should probably just stick to my Jim Butcher and RA Salvatore and Terry Brooks and ignore new authors for a while until this trend dies.
As a writer that got into worldbuilding through classic fantasy who also works at a bookstore, it sucks when I see books where I just know the fantasy aspect is just a backdrop and that’s what people assume I like and ask if I liked it or not.
Thank you! You speak from my soul. I've started reading so many of these "hyped" books and always thought, WTF? What's the point? This isn't a fantasy novel, it's "just" a slightly modified fanfiction to write the slightly different romances.
YES!!!! And sad thing is that I DO like romance in books, in fact I think there should be romance in most books - mysteries, thrillers, anything. But as a side-plot. Just a little extra. HOWEVER when the whole magic world and the whole conflict and the plot just serves an excuse to put obstacles on the way of the characters, until they boink - that’s a No from me.
At this point, i believe adult romantasy is to women is what p0rn is to men. Not a lot of good storylines, MC that readers can project onto, love interests who likes the projected MC for no reason (again, to make readers feel special), and LOTS of smex.
I love romance. I love fantasy. I hate romantasy. It's bad romance and bad fantasy. Sanderson's Yumi and the Nightmare Painter was the first romantic fantasy I liked 😂
The fact that Mormon Brandon Sanderson is pumping out better “romantasy” at the moment than authors that make it their whole shtick is so hilarious to me
Perhaps it might be neat to try some sci-fi anthologies as a palette cleanser? Like the kind with 10+ authors and all the stories are less then 30 pages? Personally, if you picked up one of those and just picked two short stories within the same collection (different authors) to compare/review/analyze I think that would be fun and very manageable as a project.
Totally agree! I also feel like a lot of newer authors are being pushed to add romance plots to stories that just don't need to be there and add very little to the overall experience (other than me finding them annoying). I am so fed up of reading a blurb about a new book coming out and it sounds really great - but then the last line is about it being an enemies to lovers or some other nonsense.
Everyone raves about ACOTAR and Fourth Wing and I freaking hate both of them. So boring, same tropes and characters. Why do writers always have to make their leading female character fucking annoying, self-intelted brat, daddy OR mommy issues and most of the time, BARELY OUT OF THEIR TEEN YEARS?!?!? All the spice all the time but no ACTUAL romance
This video along with the comments is very reassuring to me as a ‘science fantasy’ writer. I focus a LOT on worldbuilding and character study. So much so that sometimes I worry it’s too much lol (I’m neurodivergent and I think that’s why I actually love infodumping and exposition even though most people tend to complain about that). But the people in the comments sound like they actually want MORE of that, which is very exciting to me. The second thing I worry about are my own romance arcs. Despite being an unapologetic hater of romantasy as well, most of my stories do have (or even focus on) romance. But honestly I think the main issue with a lot of romantasy is that it’s written in a way that makes it seem like the story exists so a romance can happen, not the other way around. The romance should be a part of the story, it shouldn’t feel like bits and pieces of plot were shoehorned in just as excuses for romance scenes to occur.
Romantasy is just rehashed paranormal romance because people were bored with vampires and werewolves but didn't want to stray too far from their comfort zones. And all of those just added some extra features to regular old romance tropes. I do want romance in books like 50% of the time in whatever genre but what I mean is adults being in healthy relationships for most of the book. Any major conflict and tension comes from other plot lines, not from the romance. There are so few books that have this no matter the genre. Obviously with YA, messier relationships make sense for the target demographic but it wouldn't hurt to have a few healthy relationships that teenagers could aspire to.
Yes to everything! I love fantasy, and I find myself having to research the shit out of the fantasy books I want to pick up because the influx of romantasies is just that heavy. Which really irratates me, because I love going into books knowing very little about them, but alas, I simply cannot afford to spend my hard earned money on a book and end up with yet another ACOTAR clone on my hands.
i’m so glad i don’t deal with romantasy tropes because i read other books, from different authors, that don’t write YA or romance… I read outside of these genres.
I have recently come to a similar conclusion. I much prefer romantic undertones rather than overtones, whether it's smutty or not, and only if it's a well done slow burn - or nothing at all 🤷♀️ Romance just isn't my thing and it's a spit in the face of fantasy to use romance as an excuse to put zero effort into your world building. Fourth Wing enrages me because its issues are so glaringly obvious to me but apparently everyone love it?? I feel so gaslit 😬 And then I figured out that Fourth Wing is not a fantasy - it's a romance masquerading as a fantasy. I don't even think the romance is very well done, but I'm not a romance reader, so take or leave my opinion. But the fantasy was an afterthought at best. Its popularity feels insulting
I would have no problem with romantasy, if it wasn't marketed as fantasy, because, like you said, it's romance in front of a fantasy background. If there was just a clear romantasy mention at the back of the book it wouldn't be so frustrating. You'd not pick up a book expecting worldbuilding and adventure and be disappointed by a love story you don't care about
Oh my god I SO agree with everything you just said. I love romance in fantasy books but PLEASE do not build an entire world just so two people can fall in love. It SHOWS.
I'm so utterly sick of romantasy. As an ace gal who usually prefers middle grade books, I just want my fantasy - maybe with a smidge of romance on the side if it makes sense to be there. I saw ACOTAR in the CHILDREN'S SECTION (not the YA, but CHILDREN'S) at one bookstore and was horrified. Hoo boy, were parents going to have some talks with kids after that one.
Thank you! I've been itching for a good fantasy novel with a sprinkling of romance but I keep coming across what you've described. Romance in fantasy needs to be built up and shouldn't be the main focus (in my personal opinion). I want the world building and then the cute (and sultry) romance to follow later...
Try the rook and rose trilogy!! It has a romance that starts in the second book and the first book focuses on character motivation and political strife
The only romantasy I have enjoyed is An Enchantment of Ravens. It was very ahead of the time when it came out. A good romance set in a fantasy world. And it even has memorable side characters and world building. Ill never stop praising this book because it is really beautiful.
For quality fantasy with romance as a subplot that for the most part stays in the background, I recommend Katherine Arden's Winterknight Trilogy! And for quality fantasy with just the barest hint of a love story (read them as a 12yo and would not have been able to tolerate more) try Garth Nix's Abhorsen books (Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen).
They want romance with some added seasoning, but the seasoning is just salt and pepper.
If romantasy was a spice it'd be flour.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@artimisjay8071bland, bitter and makes you sick?
💀😂😂
LMAO
god I hate opening a book that looks like it's gonna be about dragons and fairies but then it's 90 chapters of two dinguses from opposing kingdoms smooching and brooding
Could actually BE interesting because These Relationships in History Had massive political Impact but sadly they arent treated like Relationships that their Outcome can have Impact on the world and more Like High school Drama. There are multiple examples of civil wars and shifting alliances that have their Bases in Close Relationships between nobles or even the peasants that prefer one over the other
@@laisphinto6372
-Reason I picked up Romantasy: Oooh tragic romance?? POLITICS?? FANTASY
-Reason I hate it: none of this is done, it is 13-16 year olds ideas of what is romantic.... *sighs*
i love reading that.. wait i love both combined. haha.
@@Xatallais 16 year olds ideas about romance really just horny bird brains getting it? No want or interest in any actual feelings or deeper relationships?
@@laisphinto6372 Like a fantasy Romeo & Juliet.
What i hate is the most is the lack of world building and magic in a fucking fantasy in marketed fantasy romance. Tiktok stop falling for and hyping poorly written works
Tik Tok Stop Hyping up Boring/Badly Written Fantasy Challenge (impossible)
Give me my fantasy political thriller you COWARDS
Similar to a Lot of Harem Stories that have very cool Set ups but really only deliver in the horny aspect
A lot of them feel like fanfiction but paid.
_cough cough_ Fourth Wing _cough cough_
These books: We are Romantasy!
Princess Bride: You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
the princess bride is actually a great example of "romantasy" done well
@laurel3420 Frankly its the gold standard for romantic fantasy in books and movies.
I'd like to add the movie StarDust! I know we're talking about books but it's one of my favorite Romantasys 🤧
@@plazy._.8094If you’re talking about the 2007 film, Stardust is actually based on a book of the same name by Neil Gaiman.
@@partyofone6549 Shut the front door! I heard of both but never put 2 and 2 together
The whole concept of "romantasy" is fine on its whole, but the fact that most popular romance/fantasy books are JUST romances with an extremely bare bones fantasy world? That needs to stop. If I tell you I read a really good romance, you expect to read an interesting relationship between characters, and maybe the world or characters around them are interesting as well, but that's usually not the focus/a requirement. If I tell you I read a really good fantasy, THE LATTER IS A REQUIREMENT. The world, its denizens, the themes, the actual fantastical elements...if those aren't worth reading? It's not a very good fantasy. My friend is desperately attempting to get me to read Fourth Wing, but I'm super not into the world, and the characters seem really flat, so I'm not here for it. Fantasy featuring romance is SUPER common. Romance featuring fantasy...doesn't work unless you're willing to put equal effort into both parts of the genre.
This has been my whole struggle trying to find fantasy romance that I can enjoy. I've yet to find one for all the reasons you mentioned. Everything I've heard about Maas's books signals to me it would not be enjoyable, but it also seems like she's one of the few that puts any amount of effort into the world and plots surrounding the central sexy times. But those sexy times don't seem enjoyable either. *Sigh*
@jojobookish9529 honestly. The words chosen, the weird gender essentialism, the "mating" thing, the SHEER QUANTITY OF SMUT PER BOOK it just doesn't feel organic, earned, interesting, and definitely not sexy. It's so sad bc I don't *hate* ACOTAR, but I DO hate pretty much everything after ACOMAF. She lost the plot quite a bit and supplanted more smut where plot should've been imho.
Maybe Legends And Late! I loved it and it was pretty chill! :)
@@ixeliemaeven the first book had cracks. I'm so dumb that i regularly spoil my game experiences by looking up the answers to puzzles but even I immediately figured out the answer to the riddle.
@@alexgagnon2144Legends and Lattes would have been better as a short story
I DESPISE Romantasy with every fiber of my being.
I’m so tired of abuse being disguised as romance. It’s disgusting.
Then you are my audience! 😄🙌 I’m writing a YA fantasy series calling all that out, cause I hate it too 😤 Lookin at you Twilight, you codependent sociopath….
@@elaynegriffith I wrote a Beauty and the Beast retelling where the Beast is an elegant raven lady and Beauty is a compassionate young painter so I’m definitely in your bracket haha
And I’m working on a thing that started as a complete overhaul of ACOTAR that has turned into Lord of the Rings with ladies 🤣
I can think of 2 things about abuse being literally romanticized in romantasies:
1. They (the authors) think it's a kink. Maybe they got it off 50 shades or 365 days, hell, even porn. Maybe they thought degrading = beat the shit outta someone either physically, mentally, or emotionally
2. I'm gonna go on a limb here and it might be a stretch but it might be because authors may not have experienced such abuse in their life? They must have seen trauma through the lens of a bystander or as someone who's never experienced it.
I could be pulling out of my ass here but I might as well am, because I've never read ACOTAR series but heard it being distasteful when it comes to abuse and other sensitive topics.
That's not romantasy, that's dark romance being marketed as romantasy. Dark romance does have it's place, and some victims find comfort in those dark stories
@@darth_pepperoni27 the ACO trilogy is idiotic smutty fanfic disguised as fantasy. In addition, the supposed handsome perfect BF Rhysand is a controlling manipulator who never answers for his actions because the MC and him are fated to be together or something, plus the only reason why is because the author said so.
The books change completely by the second volume but it doesn’t feel natural, it’s all because SJM wants the characters she wants to be together to end up together. There’s no nuance, no depth, nothing to indicate these characters could make these changes at all. It’s the playground excuse “because I said so” and it’s frankly insulting that this is as popular as it is.
There’s no deeper theme or idea being explored, it’s just bad fanfiction that glamorizes an abusive relationship. Yuck.
I'm less partial to a romance in a fantasy setting, but I like a fantasy with romance on the side. I swear that makes sense, it's all about the vibes.
That makes so much sense. A serving of fantasy with a side or even a garnish of romance is great. But romantesy? Get tf outta here 😂
SAME. I love romantic subplots. I've been mostly let down by romantasy.
I love a good, meaty romantic subplot threading through a fantasy series. If it's too much on the side ill be a bit sad, but I never ever want it to be the main focus.
I think I'm on to the right track with my work in progress then.
Dude same
as an aroace gal, every time i open a fantasy book that ends up just being dodgy romance with a lil magic sprinkled on.. i SEETHE
Oh, I know this feeling so well. Fantasy is one of my favorite genres, but not this type.
Same! Why are all the popular fantasy books romances? I can't even find book without it anymore!
i'm not even on the ace spectrum and i get very uncomfy when there's a sex scene with no warning in any piece of media like,,, if i want smut i'll actively search for it
another thing that makes me irrationally angry is that every new fantasy book with an interesting premise is just romance in disguise and i'm not having it.
I think you'd enjoy "Where the River Meets the Soul" by S. Nicole💕 Is an ace fantasy romance with plenty of plot, good worldbuilding, and a genuine emotionally connective romance
Tbh I also struggle to find women-written horror for very similar reasons. I am super not interested in the glut of vampire and werewolf smut that seems to take up the horror shelves in my local bookstore. I absolutely get that that’s for some people and just not for me, but it makes it hard to both shop local and find good women-written horror.
“I’m not going to be nice.”
*settles in with popcorn*
I feel like the "new adult" genre is just a way of saying "this is YA-level prose quality with adult-level sexual content." Which, hey, I'm not knocking it since for some people that's what they want to read, but I'm so tired of it dominating the entire fantasy space. I'm a romance-repulsed aromantic and it's near impossible to find any modern fantasy that completely lacks romance.
There's an increasing aro/aspec presense in YA fantasy in particular though...I know Darcie Little Badger does #ownvoices ace rep and is romance-free. She does Native American inspired YA. Some childrens' fantasy (Chronicles of Narnia, The Dark Is Rising, etc.) lack romance because they are aimed at pre-puberty audiences, but the prose and stories hold up for adults. Howl's Moving Castle has a romance, but it is very subtle and doesn't really come in until the end as the FMC is magically transformed into an old lady for most of the story, so that could fill your need too. Hope that helps...
Ive never seen a YA book with ace rep :/ @@maryannvalerio9869
long story short, if tiktok is obsessed with a book, it's probably shit
Yep also the chances of the "romance" In question being abusive as fvk is 100%. Tiktok is allergic to good writing and healthy relationships lol
Noted
Yep! The few books I actually got thanks to the app are the ones that doesn't get hyped up unless in a really, REALLY niche section and minority.
"Fast" by Millie Belizaire? Ugh! LOVE that book, but only BW in Booktok are hyping it up, but that's fine with me, as a BW, having that small sector of Booktok hyping it. Book relates to us more anyway, and is a good slice of life with romance at the end as a reward to the characters and us.
So real
@@thgritic102 Whats a BW?
Another big indicator that romantasy books are all the same is with the trend of just summarizing books by their tropes (a trend I loathe beyond all compare) and every romantasy writer lists the same fucking tropes:
- enemies to lovers (except he's always loved her and he's actually not
- anti-heroes (aka the most 13-yr-old "edgy" understanding of morality)
- forced proximity (the reasoning is always paper thin)
- "touch her and you die" (ranging from protective to paternalistic/abusive)
-grumpy/sunshine (or if the writer is feeling ""subversive,"" *reverse* grumpy/sunshine, because you know how tropes are gendered, right? only men can be grumpy and only women sunshine so we have to explicitly lay out that its different)
- one bed/horse/tent/whatever the fuck
... ok I had more feelings than expected, but so much romantasy is just poorly written!! and i know readers could be enjoying so much more if they just expanded!! their!! reading tastes!!
My exact thoughts on the trope trend lol 😄 it's becoming annoying.
omg yeah this is an issue i have with most booktok recs tbh, not just romantasy. tropes are excellent foundations to build your stories, characters and dynamics off of, but that's what they are. building blocks. people treat them as plot points that can stand on their own though. telling somebody that this book is an amazing enemies-to-lovers with a badass female protag and obsessive male mc doesn't say anything about the actual Plot. the actual contents of the book that most people want to know about.
i'm all for read what you want, but i can't lie, i do find it a bit concerning that so many people are so stubborn and refuse to read beyond anything that checks off a few certain boxes for them? there's so many amazing books out there. so much you can learn.
I started writing a fantasy book purposefully excluding these cliches and unfortunately, it turns out, it is really hard to write chemistry without them. But it is possible.
I just wish they wouldn't transfer fanfiction tropes to real actual stories. Like, they're tropes for a reason. Not to say you can't do them, I love my anti-heroes. But to sell and market your book off of tropes just feels like you're advertising "hey I can't actually write well, I'm just giving you some vague ideas that if you squint... you'll know".
That largely applies to regular romance too. Romantasy is just following they same blueprints.
Thank you for this! I can't deal with romantasy if I'm honest, I get frustrated because it's so formulaic. Oftentimes times it seems like there's little effort being put into these worlds, especially regarding world-building or plot. I have learned that I can't trust Tiktok books anymore, which is sad. I want to enjoy what they're loving but I just can't.
yeah tiktok recs are always sketch to me. have not enjoyed a singular one in a long ass time.
I think a lot of booktokers are new to reading in general and were pretty obviously never on Wattpad or AO3, so they recommend a lot of stuff that is bad or just straight up Wattpad fanfiction. Which to veteran readers is obviously pretty frustrating, but I'd like to think it's only because they don't know any better.
You know, the problem with most romantasy books lately is that they don't bother building anything but rely on the work of the most popular books out there and assume readers know about the basics of those worlds so they don't have to explain. Same happens with omegaverse and shifter books. Authors can't be bothered to explain a thing and expect readers to "fill in the blanks" for them with what they know.
The fanfic-ification of literature
The worst part is that some authors not only half-ass the worldbuilding because their reader "surely will fill the blanks", they also half-ass the characterization and even the romance under the same excuse. James Tullos once said "things become clichés when authors stop justifying their inclusion in an story" in that sense a lot of romantasy are the most cliched stories ever writter, they barely explain why the characters do what they do or feel how they feel about eachother, and somehow the books are still 400-pages long
I hate when I read a five hundred page book only to find out that there are no memorable side characters, or any world building or attempt at fleshing out the world.
I was just talking with my book-ish friends about how I am so unsatisfied with the execution of "romantasy" books. I want to take away "fae" from writers, along with "enemies to lovers (but jk not really enemies)" and "velvet wrapped steel"
🥶 oh gosh, you just said "icicle penis" comment cancelled I don't remember what I was saying anymore.
Right?
Fantasy is my favorite genre. I've also read some quite fun romances. In theory I'd like this mixed genre. But...not so much. I swear so many half ass both genres. I had some fun with ACOTAR but don't totally understand why it is SO hyped. And I know refuse to touch Fourth Wing
I'm not really a romantasy reader, so I did not know what "velvet wrapped steel" was and had to google. Someone give me some bleach, for my eyes need cleansing....
@@khango6138 Presumably, it is not a soft fabric wrapped around an iron alloy material lol (very literal-minded materials science major here, haha)
whats that? deer antlers wrapped steel
i like my fantasy with the slightest dash of romance. nonexistent even. i like romance, just not too much of it
I am somewhat older than the target audience, and I really like fantasy, but I do not like romance of any sort in my escapism, this trend has me going "Wait, is this going to be a fantasy fantasy, or an abusive relationship disguised as one?". I want strange worlds and interesting stories. But up until this video, I always felt alone in this opinion.
I want to go into a fantasy book without looking it up first, but it has become more difficult.
"An abusive relationship disgused as fantasy" so true!!!! I'm sick of it
You're definitely not alone.
Right? Like, I didn’t mean THAT kind of ‘fantasy’ 😅
Ditto! I don't want to read ANY romantasy. I want real fantasy novels and real sci-fi. I can sometimes tell by the blurb on the book, and I'll download a sample to my Kindle if one is available. Even though I prefer to have no spoilers, at least I can get a feel for whether I am going to enjoy these books or not. For book box subscriptions, I'm looking at the spoiler pages for what the next book will be so I can try to avoid wasting my time and money.
I think it's beginning to be a similar thing to how many fantasy authors in the '60s and '70s were trying to copy Tolkien; they've become convinced that that's how this particular subgenre is written, so the carbon copies proliferate and the market becomes saturated with the same book over and over again.
Yesterday I finally finished the whole ACOTAR series after a friend of mine was screaming at me that I needed to read them. It's safe to say that they weren't really for me (although I have no problem with smut, it deffo has its place). I'll say it's a good thing I didn't read ACOSF in public, I would have been blushing so hard. My biggest pet peeve was Maas's insistence in spelling out what the characters were going through mentally rather than letting the reader work it out for themselves. It's a telling rather than showing approach to writing that I really don't vibe with at all. Maybe it's because I'm a guy? (or "MALE" as SJM would christen me), but I am a great big soppy romantic at heart and I wanted to love them. My friends (or as I now call them, "FEMALES") keep telling me that character growth is her strongest point. But I don't know, the character development just felt fairly standard issue to me and I'm not convinced SJM has the gusto or the risk factor to let her readers encounter the properly strange and unusual; I like an author throwing me for a loop in a book I haven't read before. I guess the appeal for some romantasy readers is the familiarity of them all; a derivative book of the fae smut kind can give you all of the comfort of a re-read even if you're technically reading something new. Whilst I think cosyness is a good quality to have in sweaters, I don't think it's necessarily an admirable quality in books.
Anyways, if all these books you're talking about are basically ACOTAR reheated until the magic boils away, and the sex scenes lose their steaminess, then I can only imagine what a lot of them must be like, it's probably best for me to give them a wide berth. Thank you so much for taking the bullet for me haha, I hope you know how much we all appreciate what you do, you are amazing.
Try Priory of the Orange Tree and the prequel if you haven’t already! I loved it, it’s NOT Romantasy, it’s solidly fantasy (sword and sorcery) with a little sprinkling of romance
Or as I like to call it, lesbians and swords haha
Nope as a woman I completely agree with you. Maas doesn't trust her readers to work anything out, everything is written to death in internal monologues that destroy any semblance of pacing.
I'm beginning to make peace that writers and filmmakers think their audiences are stupid.
Her spoonfeeding the readers is honestly middle-grade level writing, not even YA
awww it's so nice to see a "male" who loves emotional romance. Good luck finding good fantasy romance.
100% agree that Romantasy is NOT fantasy. It's romance in a fantasy setting or using some fantasy color. The tropes and storylines are romance, and appeal to romance readers--who are the people it needs to be marketed to. Marketing it to fantasy readers just causes frustration.
We need also to more clearly delineate YA vs New Adult vs Adult. There's so much YA that is way too explicit for the lower end of the YA age bracket, especially with the non-consensual or coercive stuff that's so common.
Another problem is that romance writing right now is full of toxic relationships (no, that doesn't make them "dark") ... also ableist, fat-phobic, and often racist. Yes, there are exceptions, but the big names in the genre have all of these issues.
Not to mention that it tends to be poorly written/edited, from a technical writing standpoint--but my taste is more literary than most folks, including most fantasy readers, so I'm not sure I'm reasonable there.
OH.
And I had convinced myself I just hated romance, especially in my fantasy... but I recently picked up my favorite book for a re-read. Little, Big by John Crowley has the sweetest romance story in the opening chapters. The book is an epic, spanning generations, so it's not all about the love story--but the love story is just so sweet and magical.
“Marketing it to fantasy readers just causes frustration.” YES!! That’s exactly my issue! I hate that I have to research books to make sure I’m not gonna get gobsmacked with a romance masquerading as fantasy. If I want to read a romance, I’ll look for one, but I prefer fantasy. I absolutely love dark fantasy but have given up on the genre because it’s all smut.
I thought reading more grimdark would influence my algorithms, but I keep getting suggestions for Fourth Wing, ACOTAR, and the like. It’s incredibly frustrating
Spot on.
Traditionally published YA is never explicit, the problem comes with self-published authors abusing the popularity of the YA genre and not respecting it's boundaries or actual audience
my problem very simply is when I pick up a fantasy I want a FANTASY. NOT a romance DISGUISED as a fantasy. I don't mind romance in general, and sometimes I'm in the mood for it, but I'm tired of being recommended "great fantasy books" that "everyone must read" and people clearly leaving out that romance is actually the main plot of them. I can't trust any fantasy book that looks interesting anymore.
You can literally just read the blurb on the back of the book to see if a book is going to be romance or not.
can't really trust those either. they'll say something like "an epic adventure that's hard to put down." then you read it and romance is 90% of the plot. the opposite happens too. blurbs, summaries and reviews can talk all about the romance in the book but then it only ends up being a small portion of the plot. I just wish it wasn't so misleading either way so people could know what to pick up and what to avoid. @@rhi_danceswithwolves
As a MENA girlie, if I see one more white woman say that the Illyrians are POC and then post a picture of Henry Cavill as Rhysand, I’m gonna start going for throats.
I love romantasy as a concept, but I haven’t found one I’ve actually liked.
rightt like we hunt the flame is the ONLY decent one istg
No Fr if your fandom is constantly arguing over what ethnicity your characters are then your representation probably isn’t that good
A slightly more tan man is not poc!
But yeah, i gotta agree with you, I love the concept of romantasy, and I have read so many GREAT romantasy fanfics so why is it so hard to find a good book?
As an aspiring writer, this is going to be my fucking goal istg. Imma make a good romantasy book to meet my own needs
Just in case someone didnt know, the old ancient greek region of 'illyria' is a big national talking point in albanian rap music, so the most cultural rep SJMaas can point to are balkan rappers.
I love the concept of romantasy.
I hate the execution of romantasy.
I hate the abuse as trope, the overly possessiveness disguised ans protection and these boys that will support their ladies with the bare fucking minimum and be praised and "feminist kings".
The only few good romantasy books I've read have been queer which helps take the abusive relationships from the equation, but obly a couple have TRULY made the world feel like fantasy.
I wish we could have good romantasy. I truly do. The idea has so much potential for all the drama goodness, but it is so formulaic and underexplored, i hate it.
I won’t lie, I love the idea of romantic fantasy. It’s one of my favorite things to read, when done well. That’s the thing. WHEN DONE WELL.
I find myself rereading a lot of books. But there are some great romances but I feel like I'm looking for a needle in haystack looking for a new great romance that leaves me breathless
@@somethingclever8916 So true!! I would say 99/100 new fantasy romances feel like lazy, disrespectful cash grabs. I’ve been reading a lot of webtoons lately to soothe my craving, they’re still tropey but it’s not as manipulative as traditional books in the genre can be
And it is so hard to find it well done. Fortuna sworn is great but not as romantic imo.
@@spacebar9733 Hard agree. There’s a huge hole in the publishing industry for really fantastic romantic fantasy books. They keep peddling out trash to mid books- obvious cash grabs. I liked Fortuna Sworn too, but I agree I wasn’t sold on the romance at all
I miss paranormal romance that has better worlds and writing of the past two decades
I am with you on that.
Twilight had an unironically extremely fleshed out world with rules and history which baffles me in hindsight
@@empressfreya9872ok, but same? The romance was trash, but the paranormal aspect was actually interesting.
Some of these authors should just have been writing paranormal, they keep sprinkling weirdly anachronistic things into a Renaissance inspired fantasy world. Like bras. And flush toilets
I'm coping by writing my own paranormal stories with the romance being as a side plot or even further than that sometimes.
I feel like I'm going to cry because I legit feel so fecking HEARD right now.
*TW: Suicidal Thoughts is mentioned*
I was an author for a while. I did fantasy, but my stuff got destroyed bc it wasn't "spicy" and much more classic YA style like Graceling. I tried doing the "romantasy" thing but with a very slow romance and a main focus on the world, got crap for that too. (Even had ppl hate me bc I had gay characters and accused me of "being too woke" )
I couldn't be me. I couldn't write the stories I wanted to write. I had to follow what everyone else was doing if I wanted even a sliver of a chance of making something of an income and I hated it so much.
For me, the entire thing got so toxic and so hateful that I was in an extremely bad mental state where I had to choose between my literal life and trying to make my stuff work and stepping away and doing something else entirely.
Literally leaving the entire indie author world was the best thing I could do for my sanity. I am a good study and I saw this craze getting worse and worse and also somehow lazier and just as you said, carbon copies. I saw thousands claiming to be the next ACOTAR. The drama, the toxicity, the hatefulness, etc. It was just getting WAY too much.
I guess I say all of this to give an author's POV on the literal hell I went through trying to be an indie woman author writing fantasy bc that's what readers expected of me, to be like all the other indie women authors out there writing this to be the next SJM or Jennifer Armentrout.
I'm not saying every author writing this is awful, but it does feel... idk, like they are just following a trend and not really caring about anything else. Romantasy, IMO, is just people wanting to write romance but bc that entire market is literally the most toxic out there, they are moving to add the fantasy element bc the market isn't AS saturated. But now? I would say its JUST as saturated at this point. They will say it's YA when there is *so much* adult content in it. As you said, lowering the character's age just to say they can market it to YA audience. I think even the trad publishers have some sort of limit with that. Granted, according to Brandon Sanderson, they usually don't "examine YA books for their content" as much as they do for like MG. Why? idk.
To put it simply, it feels like the industry taught me that it's all about the trendiness with tiktok, insta, etc and nothing to do with actual quality or trying something new bc if it doesn't go viral on tiktok or whatever, it's basically a failure.
I honestly can't tell you how much it relieves me to hear you and read all these comments from people who feel similar to me and are seeing the stuff I've been seeing for years.
That is all to say, thank you all for making me feel less alone and heard and not crazy bc part of the toxicity I dealt with was being told that I was crazy and stupid for saying "hey, I think we have a problem growing here." And having like any sort of criticism about it. Even in the sense of like "hey, I'm not sure a teenager should read this kind of toxic romance."
Have you been doing better as of late?
Also, would your works still be published or readable? they sound exactly like the kind of thing i like reading and i've been having issues finding them (this could be so out of place here i'm so sorry if it is)
Number one rule as an author: Don't read reviews. Reviews are for the Readers, not the author.
I'm really sorry this happened to you. How fucking awful. I hope you don't give up on writing. Writing is for YOU first and foremost. Fuck trends. It's so hard to stay away from what people say but I think it's the best way. I'm planning to self publish and use a pen name. I really don't have any nerves for this shit whatsoever. We desperately need good storytellers in this weird world. You seem to have a good way about it. Don't give up❤
Definitely keep writing for yourself & you'll find the niche who will follow you 🫂 I'm learning this as an artist as well, & started to find my audience w/in it. I could easily for fandom art all day, but my traditional canvases got some good sets of eyes on them, & that's enough for me.
So keep writing & let us know too! I would love to check out your stories 😄
Don't give up on your dreams. The world is toxic, unhealthy, and unfair.
Being in the arts means you will be criticized. It's part of the job.
A lot of writers take years to decades to find their voice and find their audience.
My girlfriend loves romance. My girlfriend loves fantasy. And she loathes a good chunk of the romantasy genre! She says she needs a good fantasy setting and good world building before she can even acknowledge a love story. So I couldn't help but share this video with her and hearing her say "YES EXACTLY!" to so many of your points had me howling. EDIT: WOAH world shaking to know ACOTAR was published as YA.
I grew up reading the bodice rippers of the 70s and 80s (TALK about non-con being romanticized) and the fanfiction of the 90s and 00s. This new wave of published new adult fiction is literally just a carry over of that - people who read a lot of fanfic and the fanfic writers making “content they want to see” being picked up by my same generation of fanfic readers who are now publishing agents.
this is so spot-on, especially considering A LOT of popular romance/YA/NA being published right now originally started as fanfiction (just off the top of my head: The Mortal Instruments, that After series or whatever, some of Ali Hazelwood's works, and of course, Fifty Shades of Grey.)
Yes. As a writer attempting to get published, these agents and editors act like they’ve never heard of anything but fantasy romance. “Epic fantasy? Never heard of it.”
They think it sells because that's what people like instead of considering that it sells in part because that's what there is. Other options aren't published, so people "have" to buy books that fit into the boxes publishers want.
Ouch! That sucks! Wish you luck in finding an agent with good taste and understands what "diversity" actually means!
@@ComedyPlastic exactly. Happens with every form of media with all sorts of genres
That sucks. Please don't let that stop you from writing your story.
So frustrating! Especially when they say "a reason why you might not get an agent is because you use cliches". Babe! You just published 10 copies of ACOTAR
With Romantasy I think an issue is that the focus doesn't feel something you are investing in. I have read manga's that are a fantasy romance like it is a simple world building, but you get invested with the character and their journey.
With Romantasy it feels more like girl boss gets the Rhysand/Kylo Ren clone.
I love a romance but I need to see it bloom and develop.
I think it's because most of these books were originally fanfics
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I love romance in fantasy worlds in theory, but these books just execute it so so poorly.
I just hate how books aren’t seen as reading without romance. Someone was reviewing a MIDDLE GRADE fantasy series and their primary criticism was there WASNT ROMANCE. IN A MIDDLE GRADE SERIES
😂
Here’s the thing: I love fantasy. And I love romance in fantasy. But I HATE how romantasy is absolutely devoid of real romance. These aren’t people who love each other. These are people lu$ting obsessively over each other. And that’s not what I want. Unless it’s intentionally twisted and messed up, then that’s kind of interesting.
i think the biggest problem is in it being marketed as a fantasy, when really its just a repackaged romance
Everything you said in this video is everything I've been feeling about the latest trends within the fantasy genre, specifically within the genre that is targeted toward women/young girls. But you articulated it a lot better than I ever could.
I don't mind fantasy romance, I've read my fair share and loved but a few of them, but overall don't have anything against the genre itself. It's the way publishing, publishing has started to care more about the next best "spicy" fantasy romance that I have an issue with, ESPECIALLY when its walking the fine line between the adult audience but still making the MC just young enough that it can be marketed toward teens. For example, Red Towers Books, their slogan is "Everything you love about YA but make it spicy" there is just something yuck about that to me. Fantasy marketed towards the female audience is starting to become a cesspool of lazy writing, half-assed world building, idiotic FMCs, and even worse mediocre love interests. And I hate it.
Like female-popular books/genre are already seen as the lesser in both trad and indie publishing industry, and this whole "market-popularity over quality" only adds to this this issue, in my opinion. I can forgive indie because of the lack of resources, but traditional publishing has no excuse for their low quality books.
What is the solution to all this, IDK, I'm just ranting.
That YA but spicy makes me puke, the fvk FBI??? But oh they're all barley legal 18/19* year olds so that makes it okay some how yuck
*the FMC will always be a badly legal teen girl but the male love interests will ALWAYS be grown ass adult men twice her age 🤢
Oh my LORD thank you 🙏 someone needs to say it because romantasy is straight up ruining all modern fiction at this point
Romantasy is not real fantasy, there I said it.
@@Weasleykins PREACH 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@emilyb600 I like that someone agrees with me ❤️
I miss the times when you could read romance without sex scenes… especially about adult people
As a reader, imho pillow talk is fine, morning scenes where two lovers just have a candid conversation and character development occurs are also fine, but sex scenes themselves are too often self-serving. I'd argue there's a lot more to be gained from not showing them vs showing them. Example: in The Lion's game by N.Desmilles, there's an entertaining "pre-sex" scene between two characters where the atmosphere is set, their proximity is apparent, and when the guy follows the girl in the shower then "fade to black" it feels natural. The next thing the author shows is a cozy scene of the two main characters having breakfast in the morning and chitchat ing. The reader didn't need the sex scene in the middle - the before and after were plenty!
I agree do much
You absolutely still can. Search for “clean” romance, you can have all the fade to black you want.
Especially when those sex scenes are badly written. Another thing that I really hate is when the author solely relies on sex scenes to show the love between the characters. Looking at you ACOTAR...
Jesus fucking christ THANK YOU, I've been saying this for literal MONTHS NOW.
I'm a huge fantasy lover, and I sincerely don't care if a book has a romance subplot, if anything makes me care more about the characters, but holy crap the amount of romantasy that social media and the internet have tried to shove down my throat is exhausting.
Since June I've been looking to expand my reading collection, since I'm getting back into the hobby after years or depressive episodes, and all I was getting recommended was romantasy, everywhere. Anyone can read whatever they want, but as a reader and writer I need to see other people's work on fantasy to see how I can improve my own.
I don't like romantasy, at all, and I'm tired of people calling it fantasy when, at most, is smut and poorly written romance with some sprinkles of magic and fae. That is not fantasy, that's poorly hidden kinks.
After much researching, I finally found books that are closer to my taste, and actually well developed fantasy worlds and characters. Im tired of any person that I talk to about books only bringing up romantasy. I get it, it's easy to read and mind numbing, but it's not helpful to me as a writer when most of those books are not edited at all and have good ideas but horrible executions.
And the worst part is that many of these authors have the potential to write better pieces, but lack the knowledge of the basics for writing a good story.
„I'm tired of people calling it fantasy when, at most, it’s smut and poorly written romance with sprinkles of magic”
THANK. YOU. I have the feeling fantasy isn’t the only genre that is hijacked by "romance". Thrillers have the same problem. I bought a book because of it’s interesting premise (the protagonist made a program that could calculate when and where serial killers would make their next kill) but the author never did anything with it. It was a mere hook for the trashy romance between the tall and muscular serial killer (of course, he only kills bad guys) and his quirky kidnapping victim. I looked into reviews for clarification when the protagonist was being kidnapped and instead of worrying for her safety she „lost herself in the strong arms” of her kidnapper. Seriously, the romance genre has to be one of the most (if not the most) low-class and undemanding genres there is
@@c.s2193 Right? I had the same experience with another thriller that didn't even solve the mystery.
It focused more on the relationship between the male main protagonist and the suspect of the murders (who was incredibly annoying, and I felt that she was nothing but a burden to the story), but given how the book had good worldbuilding and atmosphere (and other *better* characters), I feel the publishers forced the author to create that romance, because it felt really out of place, and it wouldn't be the first time that publishers force a writer to implement an element in their story just because its "trendy"
@@adrianavanhoofrodriguez576 I’ve heard that too, especially in the fantasy genre (I wonder why). It’s as if suddenly every novel NEEDS to have a romance, otherwise people will get bored by it. It’s just sad and so discouraging to see, especially as a writer myself
@@c.s2193 Because now romance and smut are trendy, specially on tiktok cause it sells really well (despite the debatable quality of the story and characters), so you and I as fellow writers feel discouraged and worried about our projects, because we will never know if they'll sell well just because a brain dead algorithm that promotes consumerism prefers to focus on the equivalent of fast food literature
@@c.s2193
And it sucks how romance is being treated bc it can be great with slice of life. Anime/manga proved it is with Fruits Basket, My Happy/Blissful Marriage, Kimi Ni Todoke, Skip & Loafer, and (with fantasy) The Ancient Magus' Bride. There's even more I can add, but these hold a special place in my heart.
Idk why in the west authors are dumbing romance all the way down. It can open up a lot of hard hitting topics connected to society even in fantasy. They're passing the meat & potatoes for the desserts that has a cherry on top, and grabbing just the cherry 🤦🏿♀️
It feels to me like this is the result of a specific trend becoming mainstream - shipping and fanfiction. Hear me out, I'm not coming for fanfiction. It's just that a shitty aspect of it has come into the real world and dominated the publishing industry, purely because publishers decided to capitalise on the popularity of shipping. Drama and picking sides sells.
Look back at many of the popular fantasy series that were trend setters in the field, like Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games etc and consider the people who read those books, but all the themes just went over their heads. Instead, the only thing they took away from the stories was Team Edward! Team Jacob! Team Peeta/Gale... Some of these folks then wrote fanfiction, because they wanted to indulge in their ship, often creating toxic, dramatic alternate universes where the characters are basically superficial cardboard cut-outs of the originals, because the 'author' totally missed the whole point of the story or what the characters even represent... These romantasy books have that energy. It's just the author coming up with another knock-off witless heroine (entirely missing what made the original fan favourites actually likeable) and giving her a couple hunky douchebags to hop between, then sprinkling in some half-baked fantasy ideas that they lack the skill/care/interest to actually flesh out.
I don't have an issue with people consuming this type of media, their reasons are valid whatever they may be. The issue comes with the way these stories are then spread. Most of them have typos, plot holes, issues galore... No editor had ever set eyes on them, clearly. The themes, if you can find them, are terrible. The worlds make no sense. The characters are stupid, charmless, or downright cruel, etc. Then these books get marketed as FANTASY romance! TWO words. And fantasy comes first! The fact they falsely advertise this stuff to fantasy readers who come in with certain expectations; standards that are well established within the fantasy genre FOR A REASON... FUCK. SAKE. Drives me up the wall. This isn't bending the rules or pushing boundaries, it is straight up tricking people out of their hard-earned cash. AND it is potentially harmful when it inevitably gets pushed to an impressionable audience! You're peddling unpolished nonsense that you didn't even take the time to proof read, never mind comb out anything straight up offensive. Authors, if it's reading like half-assed fanfiction that you typed up while squatting over the shitter, you have NO business taking people's money for it.
What's worse is there are some authortubers who give WRITING ADVICE telling people that if they want to write romantic fantasy, they "don't need to worldbuild as much", as if it's some kind of loophole you can use to hide your lack of fucks given/inability to tie shit you've made up into a coherent system.
If you want your romance to just have fantastical elements, just write and market it as such! Ain't difficult to just call it what it is and save people the bad experience. The saddest thing is that these stories thrive off of the bad reviews. People raising genuine concerns about the harmful portrayals or themes in these stories just add more views to the hashtags. That, in turn, encourages other equally ignorant fools with a keyboard to churn out their own totally original 'work' about a witless heroine and her two hunky douchebag love interests... Oh wait-
Every time I see someone on both TT & YT saying screw world-building, don't know what that is.
They think it's just making up a setting when it's really making a setting & why the world operates the way it is.
Hell, even making a story in Chicago still requires world-building cause it answers questions! Why are the characters taking this route instead of that? Why is the Westside chara acting dif from Southside & Northside charas? What's in this location and why? They all connect back to the story!
It's like when Stephanie Meyer moved Bella to Washington, but only built the place up a bit. Why did the vampires choose that spot too, and don't give me the short answer from the book?! If anything Forks, Washington is the worst place for vampires to be in bc of the population even if they are "vegetarian" vampires. Maine, Alaska, and Canada would be better for them to get moose at the very least. See what I mean?
I just want to stop having to research books on my phone in Barnes and Noble to make sure I’m not about to buy borderline porn disguised as epic fantasy. I’m so done with it.
reading romantasy when you expect fantasy with some romance is like asking for ketchup with some fries and being given two fries with an uncleaned oil drum full of ketchup and every time it happens i lose more faith in the publishing industry
😭😭😭😭
the only way I can excuse barebone worldbuilding in romantasy is if it's deliberately set up like a fairytale like An Enchantment of Ravens, A Far Wilder Magic, and Silver in the Wood. They're not plot-heavy and if the worldbuilding is too enforced I think it would take away from the whimsical, dreamy, kinda folktale-ish feeling of the works.
Weirdly enough, I also think the biggest problem with romantasy is (I really don't know how else to phrase this) heteronormativity. It's the perfect genre for writers to go ham writing a romance that doesn't rely on traditional gender roles inseparable from IRL. Also just the idea of a grand love story prevailing through the end of the world, strange prophecy, curses, and anything else not possible in contemporary setting is extremely appealing. But most of the time, it's just another girl in a patriarchal world being impressed that her boyfriend sees women as humans :/
I love An Enchantment of Ravens! It's definitely a fairytale-esque book. I wish I could find more books like that. That book really manages to use the small world building it has effectively.
I just hate romance as a genre. I'm fine with romance being in the plot of any other genre, but I have never been interested in a romance-focused plot.
The first time I’m using the word validated oh my God this video made me feel SEEN😭
I despise romantasy, it’s totally infiltrating the book market with meaningless smut, poor writing, and cookie-cutter romance stories.
I've never heard of romantasy. As someone who is trying to self publish, I was tried of where most stories were headed like you mentioned. I want to self publish because for multiple reasons: A urban fantasy that deals with the plot first and romance later, diversity I am black and could not find werewolf books with characters like me and not an erotic, and wanted a monster werewolf and not what Meyer crapped out.
To be fair my book has a romance but it is not the main focus. Stuffs going down and that has to be figured out first before more bad things occur.
This is exactly the kind of book I’ve been looking for! I hope you’re able to publish 😁
Hey, I'd read a plot/world-first POC werewolf story! Good luck writing/publishing your story!
That sounds good. How are things going on for it?
Checking-in, did you publish it? Whats it called?
Love reading "Fourthwing Duck"
Uh, I mean, "Darkwing Lark"
I mean (squints at titles) "Lightlark" and "Fourth Wing"
That theme song is going to be playing in my head when I try to sleep now.
That time a kids cartoon with ducks told a better enemies to lovers story than most adult romances.
The theme of the carton playing in my head thanks to this vid & comment is getting me 🤣
@@wendyheatherwood "Let's get dangerous."
One of the Youth Librarian's daughters wanted to read the A Court of Thorns and Roses series, seeing as how it was super popular, he decided to read it to see what it's all about. Next day the entire series got moved to Adult Fantasy and we now dub it the "Fairy Porn Books" as an inside joke. Didn't stop teens from checking it out or requesting it (still is popular right now), I just found it kind of funny.
I don't usually read any kind of romance books, but there is one romantasy that I do recommend: "Silver in the Wood". It's gorgeously written and has an amazing folktale-ish atmosphere. Also, even if the plot is simple (reminiscent of an actual fairytale), the book isn't j u s t about the romance (it's all about the vibes, honestly). It's just amazing (and really short, so definitely worth giving a try)!
"I don't have a problem with sex scenes, the problem is that they're written like they're intended for 7th graders"
THANK YOU for putting into context why I can't stand these books and why I would probably try reading them if they weren't written so... simply? Poorly? Idk. 😭
I have a number of friends and students (I’m a college English prof) who’ve read A Court of Thorns and Roses, and I read the first book, too. I actually read it around when it first came out while I was waiting for, I think it was Tower of Dawn. So I’ve had YEARS to think about this. And I have 4, I think, Major Problems with the way SJM writes romance:
1. The one that jumped out at me to the point that I can’t unsee it anymore is: when one of her couples is expressing their love physically, she has a list of two dozen expressions and phrases to describe what happens and it seems like she rolls some dice and adds some of those expressions. You could probably build a Bingo card for it.
2. Because of the formulaic nature of her love scenes, you could replace the names of the couple involved with the names of any other two characters, and the scene would still work. There’s no action or expression of love or often even dialogue to differentiate one couple from another while they’re involved in the physical act of love.
3. When her couples share a scene, especially after their first time sleeping together, they are either making love or arguing about which one gets to sacrifice their life either for the other one or to save the world. As a student of, observer of, and participant in human behaviour, a couple that does nothing but make love or argue is not healthy.
4. There’s no dating period. None of her couples go on more that three actual dates. There’s no weekly dinner and a show, there’s no regular evening walks together, there’s no curling up on the couch with a pizza and a movie, there’s no taking a cooking class together or learning to ballroom dance or Thursday night board game night. She’s completely ignored the process of the two individuals becoming one couple through shared experiences. She skips over that completely.
That’s 4, but I have one more observation: grand romantic gestures are great ways to get a first date, but they are terrible foundations upon which to build a shared life. If the person you’re with doesn’t want to spend extended amounts of time with you doing regular human activities, but will hire a marching band to surprise you at work, they’re not actually interested in *you*; they’re interested in *romance*.
As an aroace guy who's obsessed with fantasy those books piss me off. I've read fanfics on AO3 which were better written, had better worldbuilding, and didn't have a dull and abusive romance as its main plot. Now whenever I see a potentially interesting book I always have to double check that it's not smut disguised as fantasy.
I've started just avoiding books where the summary makes a big deal about a love interest. I'm sure they aren't all ones like *this* but if a big part of the story is something I'm utterly disinterested in I'm probably not going to like it either way y'know?
Glad you made this video, cuz so many ppl seem afraid to voice these types of opinions online for fear of backlash. I agree with 100% of your points.
As someone who was a tween/teen during the whole dystopia craze and devoured absurdly long fanfics all the time I think that self-insert, poorly developed romantacy books do well because they feel and read like a 2014 wattpad fanfic without the negative connotations. Maybe for someone who never liked traditionally published books as a kid and only ever read fanfics online, many of these series give them the emotions of fanfic with the bonus of having a physical copy and an air of legitimacy.
Another reason why this may be popular is because reading is no longer something kids and teens are being bullied for liking and it’s seen as a perfectly normal hobby, so now adults who never read see the cool aesthetics of booktokers and want to read for the first time without gaining the skills to enjoy high fantasy/traditionally published books. Idk if this has any validity just something I’ve been thinking about
And for context: I don’t like romantacy, I’ve fully grown out of the writing style indie books usually have, but I feel like the self-insert, splash of fantasy fanfics I read as a 13 year old were important to my development as a reader. Those books largely aren’t for us, they’re for adults just now getting into reading and want the subject matter of adult books but at a lower reading level
All that being said I LOVE crapping on romantacy books and keep hating babes 😘
I recommend Raven Cycle! The characters are so well written and it’s also about romance but in the perfect amount and setting. And it’s not the typical bad guy/ naive girl trope.
I’m so tired of it. I can’t find ANY BOOKS anymore that aren’t the same exact stupid ass plot with the hypermasculine love interest and a “small petite defenseless” protagonist.
I actually just started reading ACOTAR (recommended by my wife) and I'm halfway through. As a 32 year old man it just feels extremely awkward for me to be reading certain passages. So far I'm interested in the world and creatures but i cant stand the main character idk i cant really explain fully why. I enjoy romance in stories as long as it's not the main focus.
Omg yes, yes to all of this. The sad thing is, these books would be so much more interesting if it wasn't just the same formula repeated over, and over, and over, and over again. Instead of insta love/fated mates, give me slow burn. Instead of a dumb heroine who can't focus on much of anything beyond the hawt love interest, give me a heroine who has her priorities straight and focuses on her goal above all else, instead of romance being the main focus in a fantasy book, make fantasy the main focus and romance the side plot. Like, it doesn't seem that hard, but these people make it look like it's damn near impossible.
Girl, you are my HERO. I have absolutely detested this genre of writing for years because I always felt it was shallow, minimum effort, and did little to create an actual plot outside of the romance aspect; not to mention the romances were always so wack and intangible. There was nothing real and complex about them, they were cheap.
I genuinely tried to read and like these books, because it seemed a vast majority of people, including my friends, really liked them, but I could barely make it past the first few pages.
You are saying EXACTLY what I seethe about every time I visit the bookstore and have to even look at these books haha
I especially dislike this combination of romance and fantasy because of how uncreative it is.
A fantasy world has so much potential for interesting lore and magic and all around cool stuff. You could do so much and yet you just want me to sit through two losers pining for each other and nothing else?
The way to make it work is to make the book a fantasy adventure first and maybe some romance on the side if you want to.
FUCKING GIVE ME MY FANTASY POLITICAL THRILLER YOU COWARDS!!! YES YES YES YES THIS!! LITERALLY THIS!
When I opened a book and saw the author had put in a playlist to listen to while reading it was...an experience.
Backstory of me: been reading since elementary school, but manga in middle school to now really kept me reading bc of how far the stories go than what we have in the west.
I like romantasy when reading manga, manhwa, & some fluffy YA. the reason being is how they merge romance & fantasy really well w/o one overpowering the other UNLESS it was clearly stated in the beginning/summary. The world-building along w/ character building are gold in the stories I've read, & I'm able to bounce out of the ones I don't care for.
I can't really do that w/ books here bc they make it seem from the summary theres going to be this awesome fantasy world & story w/ romance sprinkle about only to be two characters doing the do. Not even romance bc the characters are instant love at first sight & barely have any connection. As an aroace person, i need build up and intimacy. Two people being angry at each other then next chapter making out is not what I'm in for.
Doesnt help that the loud side of the community wants boiling water smex scenes than world-building. Ive seen comments on stories where people said they are there for the smut not the plot/story like what is the point then? If i want just smut, I'll go to WP or AO3 & at least be satisfied!
Is it so hard to ask for world-building fantasy, interesting characters, and a dash of smut in the west?! 😫😭
I maintain that the Warcraft novels somehow managed to do fantasy romance better than any romantasy ever could. You get an ancient wizard sending his apprentice on a suicide mission to rescue a dragon. Turns out the dragon is the wizard's wife. You get two elves falling head over heels for each other but being totally oblivious of the other's feelings because they're just too busy fighting the demonic horde invading their world. You get a ruler braving a dream hellscape to rescue her husband who's been turned into a tortured tree.
Name of the third one please?
Welp I'm off to read the warcraft books then!
I just wish the sex scenes weren't so god damn cringe, like whether you like smut or not, these scenes are just the worst. I'm wondering whether there are good erotica out there.
That partly requires authors to close the damn thesaurus
@@Kayla_P99 goddamnit, you're right - curse you, thesaurus!
I don't read erotica but Nalini Singh writes excellent sex scenes and characters who don't make me want to commit homicide
idk what you mean, "Rhys roared as he came, slamming in to the hilt. Outside, the mountains trembled..." is peak erotica.
@@briny_daydream ah yes, how could I forget about that might roar that literally caused an avalanche ... still hoping no one got buried underneath it
I’m so happy to be here. I can’t stand seeing every single “fantasy” recommendation list being full of high effort smut. Just give me castles and dragons and magic.
What I find fustrating is that agents and publishers MAKE us compare or make comparisons to other books if we want a single chance to be considered to be repped, of course, when I write, I shouldn't HAVE to think about this, why can't my works stand on their own?? So this is another reason we keep getting the same stuff going over and over and over again.
Not gonna lie, a lot of this is why I tend to stick to mostly middle grade. They are fun fantastical romps with minimal romance and definitely no smut. It’s a fun time without a lot of the annoying character drama 😂
Middle grade books are soooo underrated! Somehow many of them manage to be more mature than YA or Adult novels
I was literally having a conversation last night about how some of my booksta mutuals keep doing those "bookish red flag" posts that I'm sure are mostly jokes. But nearly all of them say not having any smut or spice is a red flag for them. With others using straight up adult video sounds to make reels about the books they're reading. It seems so weird to me to ONLY read smut. And especially to be consuming these badly written ones for like 8 hours a day. I'm glad people are reading but I'm confused and constantly trying to figure out if this is just left over purity culture bullshit making me uncomfortable or is it really just.... weird?
No, it's fucking weird that all they're doing is reading and talking about porn.
Funnily enough, this derivation problem was also a huge thing in romance writing of the 1950s. Georgette Heyer, one of the few romance writers I read (she’s a genuinely great historical novelist), often had to deal with Barbara Cartland and others taking whole characters and descriptions from her work.
You're right and you should say it. Romantasy is not only one of the most extreme cases of false advertising ever (as an aroace person its grip on the fantasy genre actually makes me feel incredibly isolated) but it is almost always nothing more than a self-insert escapist fantasy for exclusively white hetero women. I don't mean to be crass but that's what it is. Not even going to bring up the issues of romanticizing abuse because I will literally explode. It's not even that I care that these books exist; I care because they have basically taken over the entire genre. Like can we tone down the hive mind guys
Yesssss ! This 100%. I love fantasies and while I dont mind the idea of romance fantasies i hate that its never what I hope for for the exact reasons you say. Its so frustrating and even more frustrating to see it constantly take over the fantasy genre in recs, categories etc. I want a great world and complicated character dynamics and a romance that isnt just a kink or fetish put into a book (which is fine as books should be safe spaces to explore most of the time but again not what I look for). You put it so well and I dont think any of it even came across as mean or anything!
“Mad Libs title” that is literally the most accurate description of all these types of books.
Maddie continuing to say what everyone else is thinking as they bang their heads into walls from frustration
"Feels like they were written for seventh graders." Because it was. This is what happens when our education system is gutted. We have grown-a$$ adults that can't read. The few that do leave reviews on novels written with standard adult language to describe them as "tedious, pretentious, and long winded," because it uses words with more than one syllable. 😾
Here's the thing, i actually like the idea of romantasy. Something to shake up my epic fantasy books, but literally everything i tried i feel like the people who recommended them either dont have eyes, or they listened to them all on audio and the NARRATOR carried the stories.
In some ways, that fact makes me angrier that romantasy is pushed so hard. 😅 I was pretty excited for some of those books, and they were all such a letdown. 😢
And NOW, that I've decided the genre isn't for me, they DISGUISE themselves as normal fantasy books, but its still the same garbage I was trying to avoid. I'm going nuts here, should probably just stick to my Jim Butcher and RA Salvatore and Terry Brooks and ignore new authors for a while until this trend dies.
As a writer that got into worldbuilding through classic fantasy who also works at a bookstore, it sucks when I see books where I just know the fantasy aspect is just a backdrop and that’s what people assume I like and ask if I liked it or not.
Thank you! You speak from my soul. I've started reading so many of these "hyped" books and always thought, WTF? What's the point? This isn't a fantasy novel, it's "just" a slightly modified fanfiction to write the slightly different romances.
YES!!!! And sad thing is that I DO like romance in books, in fact I think there should be romance in most books - mysteries, thrillers, anything. But as a side-plot. Just a little extra. HOWEVER when the whole magic world and the whole conflict and the plot just serves an excuse to put obstacles on the way of the characters, until they boink - that’s a No from me.
At this point, i believe adult romantasy is to women is what p0rn is to men. Not a lot of good storylines, MC that readers can project onto, love interests who likes the projected MC for no reason (again, to make readers feel special), and LOTS of smex.
I love romance. I love fantasy. I hate romantasy. It's bad romance and bad fantasy.
Sanderson's Yumi and the Nightmare Painter was the first romantic fantasy I liked 😂
The fact that Mormon Brandon Sanderson is pumping out better “romantasy” at the moment than authors that make it their whole shtick is so hilarious to me
Perhaps it might be neat to try some sci-fi anthologies as a palette cleanser? Like the kind with 10+ authors and all the stories are less then 30 pages? Personally, if you picked up one of those and just picked two short stories within the same collection (different authors) to compare/review/analyze I think that would be fun and very manageable as a project.
Like those poem books! I would read that! I usually get bored after awhile with the same story anyway 😅
Totally agree! I also feel like a lot of newer authors are being pushed to add romance plots to stories that just don't need to be there and add very little to the overall experience (other than me finding them annoying). I am so fed up of reading a blurb about a new book coming out and it sounds really great - but then the last line is about it being an enemies to lovers or some other nonsense.
Everyone raves about ACOTAR and Fourth Wing and I freaking hate both of them. So boring, same tropes and characters.
Why do writers always have to make their leading female character fucking annoying, self-intelted brat, daddy OR mommy issues and most of the time, BARELY OUT OF THEIR TEEN YEARS?!?!?
All the spice all the time but no ACTUAL romance
I gave both books a try and they were honestly decent until the male LI appeared 😂. After that it became insuferrable FMC + spicy moments with M LI.
This video along with the comments is very reassuring to me as a ‘science fantasy’ writer.
I focus a LOT on worldbuilding and character study. So much so that sometimes I worry it’s too much lol (I’m neurodivergent and I think that’s why I actually love infodumping and exposition even though most people tend to complain about that). But the people in the comments sound like they actually want MORE of that, which is very exciting to me.
The second thing I worry about are my own romance arcs. Despite being an unapologetic hater of romantasy as well, most of my stories do have (or even focus on) romance.
But honestly I think the main issue with a lot of romantasy is that it’s written in a way that makes it seem like the story exists so a romance can happen, not the other way around. The romance should be a part of the story, it shouldn’t feel like bits and pieces of plot were shoehorned in just as excuses for romance scenes to occur.
GIRL! PREACH!
God, I thought I was alone out here; for us not-romantsy girlies, its been the trenches out here 😂
Romantasy is just rehashed paranormal romance because people were bored with vampires and werewolves but didn't want to stray too far from their comfort zones. And all of those just added some extra features to regular old romance tropes.
I do want romance in books like 50% of the time in whatever genre but what I mean is adults being in healthy relationships for most of the book. Any major conflict and tension comes from other plot lines, not from the romance. There are so few books that have this no matter the genre. Obviously with YA, messier relationships make sense for the target demographic but it wouldn't hurt to have a few healthy relationships that teenagers could aspire to.
As a person who learned about the bids and bees from ACOMAF dur to the lack of justifiable marketing... I agree
I love your honest opinions, they're the best spice of this channel
Yes to everything! I love fantasy, and I find myself having to research the shit out of the fantasy books I want to pick up because the influx of romantasies is just that heavy. Which really irratates me, because I love going into books knowing very little about them, but alas, I simply cannot afford to spend my hard earned money on a book and end up with yet another ACOTAR clone on my hands.
Someone finally said it! Thank you Maddie!
1:42 i agree with that. Romantacy is not a sub of fantasy and you could easily forget it part of a fantasy a lot of times.
i’m so glad i don’t deal with romantasy tropes because i read other books, from different authors, that don’t write YA or romance… I read outside of these genres.
I have recently come to a similar conclusion. I much prefer romantic undertones rather than overtones, whether it's smutty or not, and only if it's a well done slow burn - or nothing at all 🤷♀️ Romance just isn't my thing and it's a spit in the face of fantasy to use romance as an excuse to put zero effort into your world building. Fourth Wing enrages me because its issues are so glaringly obvious to me but apparently everyone love it?? I feel so gaslit 😬 And then I figured out that Fourth Wing is not a fantasy - it's a romance masquerading as a fantasy. I don't even think the romance is very well done, but I'm not a romance reader, so take or leave my opinion. But the fantasy was an afterthought at best. Its popularity feels insulting
I would have no problem with romantasy, if it wasn't marketed as fantasy, because, like you said, it's romance in front of a fantasy background. If there was just a clear romantasy mention at the back of the book it wouldn't be so frustrating. You'd not pick up a book expecting worldbuilding and adventure and be disappointed by a love story you don't care about
me, writing and publishing a high fantasy work that's found family friendship focused, as an aroace person: romantasy can die by my blade
Oh my god I SO agree with everything you just said. I love romance in fantasy books but PLEASE do not build an entire world just so two people can fall in love. It SHOWS.
I'm so utterly sick of romantasy. As an ace gal who usually prefers middle grade books, I just want my fantasy - maybe with a smidge of romance on the side if it makes sense to be there. I saw ACOTAR in the CHILDREN'S SECTION (not the YA, but CHILDREN'S) at one bookstore and was horrified. Hoo boy, were parents going to have some talks with kids after that one.
I love the fact you were just 100% honest with no filter, I do prefer honesty like this
Thank you! I've been itching for a good fantasy novel with a sprinkling of romance but I keep coming across what you've described. Romance in fantasy needs to be built up and shouldn't be the main focus (in my personal opinion). I want the world building and then the cute (and sultry) romance to follow later...
Try the rook and rose trilogy!! It has a romance that starts in the second book and the first book focuses on character motivation and political strife
@8:58 is where she actually gets to the point if you wanna skip ahead
The only romantasy I have enjoyed is An Enchantment of Ravens. It was very ahead of the time when it came out. A good romance set in a fantasy world. And it even has memorable side characters and world building. Ill never stop praising this book because it is really beautiful.
For quality fantasy with romance as a subplot that for the most part stays in the background, I recommend Katherine Arden's Winterknight Trilogy! And for quality fantasy with just the barest hint of a love story (read them as a 12yo and would not have been able to tolerate more) try Garth Nix's Abhorsen books (Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen).
Thank god I'm not the only one. I 100% agree with you.