Thank you Sgt.Donovan as I just tore out a bathroom (tile, mud and lath) and will now lay down the backer board for the retiling. Very well done video and thank you for your service to our country.
Good video. Just so people know, you mentioned needing a "little room" by the walls. You should also leave 1/8" inch gap between boards that allows the mortar you put under the tape to cement the two boards together. If they are butted tight, they will are more likely to crack a tile then not mortar and taping them at all
The Liptak's - Realise this is an old comment, but the manufacturer’s own video (UK) states to butt the boards up against one another, but to leave a 3mm gap (1/8”) around the perimeter. So technically this guy is doing it to spec. Whether in practice that is the best way, is another matter!
You’re forgetting the step of applying thin set or glue to the back of the board This will ensure that the tilies have the proper substrate for a lasting finish
do something like write ASBESTOS on it in big letters before you cover it up as its eventually going to need to come out and the next guy might not know what hes looking at/looking for
Love the videos there are perfect to the point and very informative. You show the perfect amount of work. I have a question I'm remodeling my bathroom . I'm about to set my Hardie board down and have some cut out hole in my sub floor why they where out there us any one guess they are not to large about 5" -7" diameter . My question is can I just lay the backer board over these holes in do I need to pacth them
Hi Sgt, When you use the “mortar” to stick down the Backer board, is the mortar the same as used for bricks or is it cement based tile glue or rubber based glue ? Not sure if there’s a subtle translation difference. Nice Video too. Cheers
Great video, thanks for this! I’m tackling this project in my bathroom this weekend. So far I ripped everything out and dry fit the backer board. I have a question though. I’ve watched a lot of video and it seems some guys use thin set and screws and some guys just use screws. Is there a big difference? Thanks
@@Vid_Master I’ve worked out the answer. Thin set mortar is much better than screws because it’s more stable base for the floor to sit on. Screws can loosen in the joists & the floor (over time) can become a little unstable. Laying a thin set of mortar or waterproof adhesive is advisable. I did just that
@@Fd20y Makes sense, especially with people walking on the floor / vibrations through the house!! I am building a wood stove hearth so I am going to only use screws, since it wont be walked on.
The manufacturers specifically say to use thinset under the cement board. Also, it’s not a question of using either thinset or screws, you are supposed to use both. Look for the James Hardie videos which is the manufacturer for Hardie backer board. The video shows exactly how to do it per their standards.
Whenever handling or cutting / hammering these sheets, i would strongly recommend a silica-standard mask i.e. not just when you are grinding it. As the chap states, Silica is nasty stuff and you definitely don’t want it in your lungs. Even cleaning up afterwards, keep the mask on. You can’t get hold of such masks at the moment, due to people buying them for CV or to sell-on at x10 normal price.
There are special circular saw blades for cutting backer board. They have like only 4 to 6 teeth, and keep the dust down. Great video. I"m going to use this method for my small bathroom tile job. Is it highly recommended to put mud below the backer board?
I bought 20 sheets of 1/2" thick sheets, recently had 2 pros give me estimates, both commented that I could have gotten 1/4" thick sheets, is this correct and what advantage is there using 1/2" thick?
Knowing that my bathroom floor needs leveling, I was wondering if I can use a gypsum based SLU to eliminate the need for "backer board", as it can be applied up to 1 1/4" thick and the nominal thickness would be 1". What do you think ?
I found your video very educational. I had my kitchen floor tiled with 12x24 tiles about seven months ago and I remember the installer setting backer boards but not sure if he laid a thin layer of thinset before nailing the boards. Now as we walk over the floor we hear popping sounds all over. what could be the problem?
12 x 24 tiles will usually also require specific fibre infused mortar to improve the rigidity of the mortar and avoid tile cracking when laying. Anything over 12x12 should use this mortar.
Have it adhere to floor and give something extra screws to hold onto. If your subfloor is extremely level some pros don’t use it. I have no idea what I’m doing so I use it. Also voids tile warranties for some if you don’t use it.
Just ripped out bathroom floor. It has no floorboards and previous owner used a thick chipboard and tiled over them. What shd i do from here. i was thinking to lay plywood and then cement boards and tile over it. Or is it just as good to layne the plywold and brush on Aqua defense water proofing solution. Also i understand u leave gap at edge of wall for expansion of cement boards but doesnt that leave a weak point
Maybe I missed this but what backer is that? I have not laying tile in 15 years but I had used Hardy cement board back then yours looks more flexible and not as rough? And do you have any experience using the new Curti board for any of that kind of stuff versus cement boards? Do you have a preference
I was going to ask about that. I just removed the original builders tile in a small 5x5 bathroom of our 20 year old house. It looks like they just nailed the backer down to the subfloor then tiled on top of it. It came up easy and left a clean subfloor. There's no reason I can't just do it the same way is there?
for a rental property, keeping in mind that - unlike your personal residence - a rental has to be updated more frequently to stay competitive with other rentals - - it seems that if you know you're on a 5-year remodeling schedule, skipping the mortar below the hardibacker board may not be an issue. "I know I will be remodeling this rental in 5 years and I want the old floor to come off very quick and easy" I just removed a 40-year-old bathroom tile floor in which the thinset mortar for the tile had been applied right to the plywood subfloor. After 40 years it came up pretty easy. But putting mortar down, then hardibacker board, then mortar for the tile, then the tile - knowing I'm ripping it out in 5 years or so - it's like, "I'm not going to do that" The key difference is this. If you want to rent out that unit, you know that your customer - the prospective tenant - is looking at a lot of other rentals. If you do not remodel your rental every 5 to 10 years, it is going to take much longer to find someone to rent your place. Tenants are ALWAYS going to rent the best-looking unit. If they look at 5 rentals, and all of them have fairly recent flooring and so on, but your rental unit has 10, 15, 20-year old floors, they will not prefer renting your unit. Whereas your personal residence, you are not marketing it to new tenants periodically, so you apply your flooring in a more permanent fashion in that case. "I'm going to live in this house 20 years, I won't be remodeling for quite a while" type of deal.
This board is so heavy, with screws, why do you need mortar? If, God forbid you have to remove the flooring years later, won't the mortar be a major clean up problem?
My tile floor looks good a year and 4 months later. I put about 330 screws in a 10' by 10' area. My drill was tired. I wouldn't use nails, you want a screws so it grips the subfloor. You don't want movement below the tiles. Most of the videos I watched suggested taping the joints between panels. I think it's an important step because smaller pieces in high traffic could wear down around the screws over a long time period. You don't want them shifting 10 years down the road.
@@Blackdog4818 I put hardboard cement board down and adhesived it to my sub floor then laid tiles on. Don’t trust screws enough as my sub floor was abit rotted and soft
Nice Video. Our House is coastal and is up on Pilings. The subfloor is Plywood, and the House flexes a lot. I'm pulling out Carpet and laying down floating Vinyl Plank. The Kitchen Tile is staying (because it's still perfect after 15 years), and is set on top of 1/2" backer. I need to bring the elevation of the Subfloor up to match the Tile, so I'm planning to use 1/2" backer board for this. My question is, if I'm just putting floating Vinyl Plank over this, do I need to Mortor the Backer Board, or is just Screwing it down enough?
@@john_michaelz1823 I dont think it is waterproof, only a baseboard to tile on top of. Hardie backer boards are inert so they are not supposed to let water through the board, but the joints are a weak point as is all the mechanical fixings through the board. Again though I believe this installation is purely as a backing board to lay tiles onto.
What if the floor wasn't perfectly level and your planning on using 12 x 24 inch tiles? Is the mortar under the hardy backer sufficient to fill those gaps and level the floor? Or do you need to use floor leveler? And if so, do you use floor leveler on the subfloor or on top of the hardy backer? I'd assume you'd use floor leveler on the subfloor if required.
If the floor is very unlevel, I'd use floor leveler. You can level out the floor when laying the tiles, use more mortar in those areas to compensate and a use a level large enough to cross several tiles to ensure you're level . Worked great for me with 12 x 24 files, two years down and is looking great.
@Keith Saunders, use Floor Self-Leveling compound, and make it runny enough so it finds its own level. Let it cure. Make sure the whole floor is level AND flat; use a long metal box level to check for flatness before laying the mortar/thinset as the underlayment for cement board/hardibacker. Then lay the cement board/hardibacker, and screw it in as @SgtDonovan did it.
Thanks for the video. I pulled up three layers of flooring being vinyl sheet, vinyl sheet, and the top layer Pergo boards. The bottom layer was a large glued down vinyl sheet. Most of the glue layer didn't come up. It's very thin to the point it can't be measured. Does that need to be removed or can I thin set over it and screw? Also, wont applying thin set directly to the subfloor or that glue layer ruin the subfloor? What do you think about putting down tar paper/roofing paper over the old vinyl glue layer, putting thin set on the tar paper, then screwing it down?
Ace Ace the thinset will not damage the wood subfloor. It can easily handle the small amount of moisture it will encounter before the thinset dries. And you can absolutely install your backer board over the vinyl. That is exactly what the layer of thinset is for. It is providing a solid base by filling in the small imperfections. Some people assume you are sticking the backer to the subfloor with the thinset, but you’re not. Hardie brand backer allows you to use plain, unmodified thinset which will not bond at all with the subfloor. That’s the job of the nails and/or screws
@@SgtDonovan - Thanks. I'll make sure I use the unmodified thin set. I was also looking at something called Ditra which looked pretty cool but it's more expensive that backer board I believe although it looked easier to install.
Question: If I have Vinyl Tile on my floor now, which is as solid as cement- can I install hardibacker board on top of that so I can install porcelain Tile? I tried removing the vinyl tile but its extremely difficult, even with heater guns/torch. I have 400 sq ft to do and don't think its logical to kill myself on the removal of vinyl tile. Never came across this before after 30 years of tiling.
Looks like you guy don’t know about what side of the hardiebacker board is used for ceramic tiles and what is for painting the wall. The trouble will happening after 7
You'd want to cover the floorboards with a layer of plywood no thinner than 5/8". Make sure all the floorboards are secured to the floor joists with screws prior to installing the plywood. And as tempting as it is, don't skip the mortar bed under the backer board. The goal is to minimize variations in the floor for when it flexes (and it will flex). If you skimp on screws and/or mortar in the subfloor prep, you'll pay for it later with cracked grout lines and popped tiles.
You mention nothing on the screw spacing, the spacing between the backer sheets or how close to the edge you should place a nail/screw...not very thorough!!!
Sgt. Donovan, My floor decking is 1/2" plywood and there are definitely some spongy spots in areas of medium to high traffic. Should I use 3/8ths backer board or will the regular 1/4" be sufficient? Thank you for this video and especially for your service.
Thank you Sgt.Donovan as I just tore out a bathroom (tile, mud and lath) and will now lay down the backer board for the retiling. Very well done video and thank you for your service to our country.
Tim Bailey You’re very welcome.. thanks for the kind words
Simple, step by step, straight to the point. Great video, Thank You
Nice professional installation, finally someone who installs backer board correctly.
Thank you for your great videos! To the point and easy to follow for beginners like me!
Man I wish I saw this yesterday.
My drill and jigsaw method did a clean job but was WAY more of a pain in the ass cutting the registers lol
Good video. Just so people know, you mentioned needing a "little room" by the walls. You should also leave 1/8" inch gap between boards that allows the mortar you put under the tape to cement the two boards together. If they are butted tight, they will are more likely to crack a tile then not mortar and taping them at all
Good tip on the 1/8" gaps
The Liptak's - Realise this is an old comment, but the manufacturer’s own video (UK) states to butt the boards up against one another, but to leave a 3mm gap (1/8”) around the perimeter. So technically this guy is doing it to spec. Whether in practice that is the best way, is another matter!
I like to get a sponge and some water to smooth out the thinset when taping the joints. Makes it look nice and blended together.
I like to make my helper do that.
Thanks again brother
Great video! Thank you for keeping it low key & easy
Thank you! Good video. Simple and informative.
You’re forgetting the step of applying thin set or glue to the back of the board
This will ensure that the tilies have the proper substrate for a lasting finish
You should add to the title - ...to wooden sub floor.
Thank you for the tips. How much space do I need between walls and boards? and between boards?
I've got a floor with 2 layers of vinyl tile, one is 10% Chrysotile asbestos, so instead of ripping them up I'm going over it with 1/4" HB.
do something like write ASBESTOS on it in big letters before you cover it up as its eventually going to need to come out and the next guy might not know what hes looking at/looking for
x10mark2
Fantastic advice
Yeah. Don’t touch that s**t! 😳
Can I install two layers of 1/4” hardie backer boards one over another with use of mortar between?
Love the videos there are perfect to the point and very informative. You show the perfect amount of work. I have a question I'm remodeling my bathroom . I'm about to set my Hardie board down and have some cut out hole in my sub floor why they where out there us any one guess they are not to large about 5" -7" diameter . My question is can I just lay the backer board over these holes in do I need to pacth them
Hi Sgt, When you use the “mortar” to stick down the Backer board, is the mortar the same as used for bricks or is it cement based tile glue or rubber based glue ? Not sure if there’s a subtle translation difference. Nice Video too. Cheers
I use a modified thin set with polymers and a 3/64th trowel.
Thank you for this video, I am just learning it. May I ask you what type of mortar did you use to attach the backer boards to the plywood floor?
Great video, thanks for this! I’m tackling this project in my bathroom this weekend. So far I ripped everything out and dry fit the backer board. I have a question though. I’ve watched a lot of video and it seems some guys use thin set and screws and some guys just use screws. Is there a big difference? Thanks
I’d like to know the answer
I also want to know the answer to this question! what is the purpose of the mortar under the backerboard?
@@Vid_Master
I’ve worked out the answer. Thin set mortar is much better than screws because it’s more stable base for the floor to sit on. Screws can loosen in the joists & the floor (over time) can become a little unstable. Laying a thin set of mortar or waterproof adhesive is advisable. I did just that
@@Fd20y Makes sense, especially with people walking on the floor / vibrations through the house!!
I am building a wood stove hearth so I am going to only use screws, since it wont be walked on.
The manufacturers specifically say to use thinset under the cement board. Also, it’s not a question of using either thinset or screws, you are supposed to use both. Look for the James Hardie videos which is the manufacturer for Hardie backer board. The video shows exactly how to do it per their standards.
Whenever handling or cutting / hammering these sheets, i would strongly recommend a silica-standard mask i.e. not just when you are grinding it. As the chap states, Silica is nasty stuff and you definitely don’t want it in your lungs. Even cleaning up afterwards, keep the mask on.
You can’t get hold of such masks at the moment, due to people buying them for CV or to sell-on at x10 normal price.
You OG with that hammer!
Do have a video on working on concrete foundation
On the toilet flange, would i need to raise the flange and tile under it, ot just butting the tile to the flange would be ok? Thanks.
There are special circular saw blades for cutting backer board. They have like only 4 to 6 teeth, and keep the dust down. Great video. I"m going to use this method for my small bathroom tile job. Is it highly recommended to put mud below the backer board?
I bought 20 sheets of 1/2" thick sheets, recently had 2 pros give me estimates, both commented that I could have gotten 1/4" thick sheets, is this correct and what advantage is there using 1/2" thick?
How much space should you leave between the wall and the edge of the hardy board
Knowing that my bathroom floor needs leveling, I was wondering if I can use a gypsum based SLU to eliminate the need for "backer board", as it can be applied up to 1 1/4" thick and the nominal thickness would be 1". What do you think ?
When taping the joints,is it bad if the thin set is three times wider than what you put?
I found your video very educational. I had my kitchen floor tiled with 12x24 tiles about seven months ago and I remember the installer setting backer boards but not sure if he laid a thin layer of thinset before nailing the boards. Now as we walk over the floor we hear popping sounds all over. what could be the problem?
12 x 24 tiles will usually also require specific fibre infused mortar to improve the rigidity of the mortar and avoid tile cracking when laying. Anything over 12x12 should use this mortar.
@@apedanticpeasant1447 Thank you for your advise! 👍
What is the purpose of putting mortar under the backerboard?
Have it adhere to floor and give something extra screws to hold onto. If your subfloor is extremely level some pros don’t use it. I have no idea what I’m doing so I use it. Also voids tile warranties for some if you don’t use it.
Just ripped out bathroom floor. It has no floorboards and previous owner used a thick chipboard and tiled over them. What shd i do from here. i was thinking to lay plywood and then cement boards and tile over it. Or is it just as good to layne the plywold and brush on Aqua defense water proofing solution. Also i understand u leave gap at edge of wall for expansion of cement boards but doesnt that leave a weak point
Maybe I missed this but what backer is that? I have not laying tile in 15 years but I had used Hardy cement board back then yours looks more flexible and not as rough?
And do you have any experience using the new Curti board for any of that kind of stuff versus cement boards? Do you have a preference
How long do you have to wait to put the tile down after you lay the BB?
Can’t you put a rag down in the register before you lay it ?
next guy who has to remove that is going to be pissed
I was going to ask about that. I just removed the original builders tile in a small 5x5 bathroom of our 20 year old house. It looks like they just nailed the backer down to the subfloor then tiled on top of it. It came up easy and left a clean subfloor. There's no reason I can't just do it the same way is there?
@@FunknGrvn I'm thinking the same thing, I'm going to just screw the hardie backer down and fill the seams.
@@randersonxf I just did that today. I'm sure it will be fine.
for a rental property, keeping in mind that - unlike your personal residence - a rental has to be updated more frequently to stay competitive with other rentals -
- it seems that if you know you're on a 5-year remodeling schedule, skipping the mortar below the hardibacker board may not be an issue.
"I know I will be remodeling this rental in 5 years and I want the old floor to come off very quick and easy"
I just removed a 40-year-old bathroom tile floor in which the thinset mortar for the tile had been applied right to the plywood subfloor. After 40 years it came up pretty easy.
But putting mortar down, then hardibacker board, then mortar for the tile, then the tile - knowing I'm ripping it out in 5 years or so - it's like, "I'm not going to do that"
The key difference is this. If you want to rent out that unit, you know that your customer - the prospective tenant - is looking at a lot of other rentals. If you do not remodel your rental every 5 to 10 years, it is going to take much longer to find someone to rent your place.
Tenants are ALWAYS going to rent the best-looking unit. If they look at 5 rentals, and all of them have fairly recent flooring and so on, but your rental unit has 10, 15, 20-year old floors, they will not prefer renting your unit.
Whereas your personal residence, you are not marketing it to new tenants periodically, so you apply your flooring in a more permanent fashion in that case. "I'm going to live in this house 20 years, I won't be remodeling for quite a while" type of deal.
This board is so heavy, with screws, why do you need mortar? If, God forbid you have to remove the flooring years later, won't the mortar be a major clean up problem?
No way I’m putting mortar on my subfloor in case I want to change tile down the road...
DeMayne
I’m just using nails and screws to put my Hardie backer down on my sub floor. I hope this is ok?
My tile floor looks good a year and 4 months later. I put about 330 screws in a 10' by 10' area. My drill was tired. I wouldn't use nails, you want a screws so it grips the subfloor. You don't want movement below the tiles.
Most of the videos I watched suggested taping the joints between panels. I think it's an important step because smaller pieces in high traffic could wear down around the screws over a long time period. You don't want them shifting 10 years down the road.
@@Blackdog4818
I put hardboard cement board down and adhesived it to my sub floor then laid tiles on.
Don’t trust screws enough as my sub floor was abit rotted and soft
Back in the days they used to put the tile on top of the subfloor. The mortar don’t even stick on the subfloor. That’s the stupid thing I ever heard.
great vid thx
Can I use these over floorboards
Nice Video. Our House is coastal and is up on Pilings. The subfloor is Plywood, and the House flexes a lot.
I'm pulling out Carpet and laying down floating Vinyl Plank. The Kitchen Tile is staying (because it's still perfect after 15 years), and is set on top of 1/2" backer. I need to bring the elevation of the Subfloor up to match the Tile, so I'm planning to use 1/2" backer board for this.
My question is, if I'm just putting floating Vinyl Plank over this, do I need to Mortor the Backer Board, or is just Screwing it down enough?
Just screwing it will work fine for that floor. Its flexible. It won't crack like tile does.
@@rodrigorodriguez7410 Thanks
So what do you do at the floor and wall joint ?
Yeah, no clue. Like how is that waterproof?
@@john_michaelz1823 I dont think it is waterproof, only a baseboard to tile on top of. Hardie backer boards are inert so they are not supposed to let water through the board, but the joints are a weak point as is all the mechanical fixings through the board. Again though I believe this installation is purely as a backing board to lay tiles onto.
Nice hat & thanks for the video!
USMCbassman thanks!
What if the floor wasn't perfectly level and your planning on using 12 x 24 inch tiles? Is the mortar under the hardy backer sufficient to fill those gaps and level the floor? Or do you need to use floor leveler? And if so, do you use floor leveler on the subfloor or on top of the hardy backer? I'd assume you'd use floor leveler on the subfloor if required.
If the floor is very unlevel, I'd use floor leveler. You can level out the floor when laying the tiles, use more mortar in those areas to compensate and a use a level large enough to cross several tiles to ensure you're level . Worked great for me with 12 x 24 files, two years down and is looking great.
@Keith Saunders, use Floor Self-Leveling compound, and make it runny enough so it finds its own level. Let it cure. Make sure the whole floor is level AND flat; use a long metal box level to check for flatness before laying the mortar/thinset as the underlayment for cement board/hardibacker. Then lay the cement board/hardibacker, and screw it in as @SgtDonovan did it.
Mapei self-lever recommends that you put the self lever on top of the backer board because the self-lever may crack if screwed into.
Thanks for the video. I pulled up three layers of flooring being vinyl sheet, vinyl sheet, and the top layer Pergo boards. The bottom layer was a large glued down vinyl sheet. Most of the glue layer didn't come up. It's very thin to the point it can't be measured. Does that need to be removed or can I thin set over it and screw? Also, wont applying thin set directly to the subfloor or that glue layer ruin the subfloor? What do you think about putting down tar paper/roofing paper over the old vinyl glue layer, putting thin set on the tar paper, then screwing it down?
Ace Ace the thinset will not damage the wood subfloor. It can easily handle the small amount of moisture it will encounter before the thinset dries. And you can absolutely install your backer board over the vinyl. That is exactly what the layer of thinset is for. It is providing a solid base by filling in the small imperfections. Some people assume you are sticking the backer to the subfloor with the thinset, but you’re not. Hardie brand backer allows you to use plain, unmodified thinset which will not bond at all with the subfloor. That’s the job of the nails and/or screws
@@SgtDonovan - Thanks. I'll make sure I use the unmodified thin set. I was also looking at something called Ditra which looked pretty cool but it's more expensive that backer board I believe although it looked easier to install.
is that 1/4 in backer board youre using ?
Eric M yes
Question: If I have Vinyl Tile on my floor now, which is as solid as cement- can I install hardibacker board on top of that so I can install porcelain Tile? I tried removing the vinyl tile but its extremely difficult, even with heater guns/torch. I have 400 sq ft to do and don't think its logical to kill myself on the removal of vinyl tile. Never came across this before after 30 years of tiling.
You can put the backer on top of the vinyl. The only issue it can cause will be the extra height of the finished floor.
AYE devil, where are you located lol I would love to hire ya
Why Hardie board on floor and Durarock on walls?
good
donot you need another layer of plywood before you screw the backerboard
Old boy tough not wearing knee pads
Looks like you guy don’t know about what side of the hardiebacker board is used for ceramic tiles and what is for painting the wall.
The trouble will happening after 7
👍
How do I install the backer board onto wooden floorboards?
Straight to deck or plywood
You'd want to cover the floorboards with a layer of plywood no thinner than 5/8". Make sure all the floorboards are secured to the floor joists with screws prior to installing the plywood. And as tempting as it is, don't skip the mortar bed under the backer board. The goal is to minimize variations in the floor for when it flexes (and it will flex). If you skimp on screws and/or mortar in the subfloor prep, you'll pay for it later with cracked grout lines and popped tiles.
You mention nothing on the screw spacing, the spacing between the backer sheets or how close to the edge you should place a nail/screw...not very thorough!!!
Will the coated nails react to the mortar mix?
Sgt. Donovan, My floor decking is 1/2" plywood and there are definitely some spongy spots in areas of medium to high traffic. Should I use 3/8ths backer board or will the regular 1/4" be sufficient? Thank you for this video and especially for your service.