Ditto as well. Until I get a second look at the image before stirring the video in realized wood stove Heat powered fan I think? I wonder if they have a stirling engine type of fan similar to that or other type of heat engine does not electric theoretically it could be done. You'd have more than enough heat energy to do it because there's some that operate on below the temperature of boiling water. Or maybe somebody do a DYI version here on RUclips either one I will check possibly post a link if I see anything for those are interested. Thought about that a long time ago but then I had forgotten about it until now you know how things go. Also it's not technically self-powering which really nothing can be no such thing as professional arity or perpetual motion right as you were saying you thought it was going to be with those devices. As you know energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Just converted from one form to another. And this case Heat to electrical true mechanical and of course some heat do the losses in the motors. Doodle bosses that's where the inefficiency comes from and nothing is 100% efficient. Which brings back in thermodynamics which is the basis of self-powering machines at least part of it being impossible. Those overunity machines and such. So-called free energy. With free energy You could argue that if the energy that's being used does it really cost anything.... Indicating of course expense of harvesting ink quotes that energy. Technically there would be such a thing as free energy in a technicality of course. As they say no such thing as a free lunch. You did have to walk somewhere or drive somewhere or whatever to go get your supposedly free burger right it cost money to do that now doesn't it in one form or another. If you you walked dresses are you wore out your shoes a little Teensy tiny panty those shoes cost money don't they. And sub Penny level we're on the Soles means it's costing you money. And also speaking of energy the energy you would give up in terms of walking to get the free lunch that's something. Even if it's not monetary it's still not free. But what they call Energy harvesting Aki recovering energy from the environment such as thermal mechanical and in some cases electrical and alarm for my neck fields or radio waves theoretically you could actually Harvest yes Harvest energy for some applications Niche area of course. And do some quote on Port work such as in the case of one of these fans. Although years ago I did win a science fair with something that one might consider free energy however it was using electricity that was already present in the environment in low levels feels being picked by 2 I think it was a hundred foot wire antennas. And if I remember a ground as well. It was a LCD battery powered clock module basically that sort of one that had the adhesive on the back like those that was just a simple LCD clock. It was a custom circuit it was two of them I designed myself. Can't remember all what the circuit had in it of course too long ago. But it would run the digital clock module without a battery I did have it on a clear mounting service to prove that there was no power source other than the circuitry itself and the harvested energy. Also at that school we could also when we are doing classwork which I did this both muscle is fair and class projects yes plural English for the write-up of the project. Science for obvious reasons. And Technology even of course because of obvious reasons. And Shop because I did most of the construction at least the mechanical construction at school utilizing shop equipment we had. For one at that time I did not have a drill press. Nor proper tools to work for acrylic without cracking it when drilling it. I thought it would be a better science project than something like vegetable batteries or something. AKA potato clock excetera. by the way that project kept working for years and years and years it actually kept good time The only time I've ever had to reset it was just due to the in accuracy of the clock itself over years. It was actually the most accurate clock in our house believe it or not. it seemed to be more accurate than the digital clocks on AC power! As a side note one of the antennas also served as my basement radio antenna at times.
Yeah yeah I know I'm responding to my own comment but I just remembered something. Even though it's not true perpetual motion or anything but it's harvested energy like I was mentioning it in the previous comment of my own. There was a clock that or clocks that were called Perpetual clocks or something like that years and years ago antiques. Is that would run almost what one would call indefinite except of course if you and stop them accidentally or move them too much or whatever. Also note that they would require a manual start once you put them in place. The energy source was not actually free energy or perpetual motion at all. But used a combination of temperature changes and barometric changes to power to clock mechanism mechanically. Also they were very finicky and required some maintenance to keep them running of course and it had to be kept very very clean is a precise tolerances and stuff more so than other mechanical clock to the time. I used to know someone that had one of these on his mantle. I saw it and notice there was no winding key or what seemed to be a way to do it why did up and asked he says all you don't have to. He said if I keep it maintained it keeps running. I'm like what!!!! And he said you know he said something wrong or Perpetual or something rather something or other clock I said that's impossible. Then he explained it to me how it worked. He was actually a person that repaired clocks and watches. I did know it because that was the first time I've ever met him at his place. And then he took me downstairs and show me down to his Workshop. As well as he had all kinds of clocks including really old electric clocks and stuff I never seen. Even Old Timers and stuff it was pretty cool I think you can more clocks in one room then. Brown had in his entire place. One thing to note most of the try me and or striking clocks were modified so that the mechanism could be turned on and off in one way or another due to the fact that there would be so many going off at once. And most of them are fairly close in time.
If the strip just knocks the thing on it's back, then the wires etc are gonna be even closer to the heat, and melt immediately. Either way, it's going to stop electricity being generated, stopping the fan, which is the main source of cooling. It might do more harm than good. You'd need to really think through that design, maybe with something more complex. Maybe have some insulator somehow come into play. Another problem would be what to build it out of. Metal is good for not melting, but also a good heat conductor. At an extreme you could stick aerogel around the whole thing but that might affect the price more than people would be willing to put up with.
@@greenaum it doesn’t completely stop the heat, and it doesn’t knock it over, just tips it up as you do a pot thats about to boil over. Just remove enough heat that it wont screw up.
Clive I'm always really glad that you talk about your mother and her alzheimer's so openly and with such a positive attitude from time to time in your videos. My grandmother had early signs of dementia and I can really relate to your stories. Hopefully it never happens but if anyone else in my life is diagnosed, now that I am a little older and wiser I will be sure to take on a similar patience and attitude.
@@bigclivedotcom Oooo Clive, time is going to tell if you get away with that one. You will end up with the feminist or PC brigade after you. What a mix, electronics, periods and shit. Nothing unusual there.
Brings a whole new meaning to throwing another log on the stove! Clive it’s an awful awful disease as you well know and to view it with a sense of humour is the only way we get through these difficult times. You are an amazing man and just as amazing a son.
You're essentially one of my favorite humans. You're a good person Clive, even as bad as your bad side likely is. I salute you my friend. You have nearly a half a million people around the world who follow you and some large portion of them continuously watch your content regularly. I hope you know that we will watch your content, no matter the message because you're a great creator. If you need to ever use your videos for a release (if you don't already), please never feel the need to stifle or censor yourself; this is your outlet. I feel confident in saying we would not think less of you for NOT censoring yourself, more so if you DID censor yourself. Thank you for always being you or what appears to be you on camera and thank you for bring up the hard topics that need to be talked about. Unknowingly, you are likely bringing solace to others who unfortunately do not have an outlet. Thank you.
Tells a joke about ‘period furniture’ than few moments later apologizes for a squeaky noise. Thank you for your brutal honesty. Your a great man in many ways!
Wait... you drive, watch RUclips, AND eat, all while coming home from work? Where do you work, again, so I can AVOID that part of the country around evening rush hour? :-p
Same issue here, got as far as boiling the water, started watching this video while I waited. Can't not eat as it makes my current upset stomach worse. Thanks Big Clive for putting me into the situation where I'm going to feel sick either way.
I was drinking a cup of Hot Chocolate (a cold Canadian drive home from work warrants one when I get home) and when you told your Mom story I laughed so hard Hot Chocolate squirted out of my nose and all over my screen......You are awesome. Please dont change.
Are oldest daughter is working hard to help keep they elderly in there homes as long as possible she's only 19 year old and fell in love with the job. She as meet some lovely people and cared for them with their families thank you for telling people as it is.
Got one on my wood stove now. Running fine. Had it for years. Great conversation starter with new people around the house. Mama drama sucks. Dealt with similar. My condolences. Thanx.
Great story about your mother, couldn’t stop laughing 😂 My dad had Alzheimer’s, he did a few funny things... when asked what would he like for his 75th birthday at a family gathering, he replied “a bit of rumpy pumpy!” 👀 It’s great to have those ‘lighter’ moments when things are tough. Great channel, keep it up 👍😉
Loved your story about your mom. When my dad would say or do something that seemed inappropriate, I would enjoy trying to guess what was in his mind, and how it somehow made sense to him. Sometimes I could. Mostly not so much.
I love these incredible little devices. I believe that most of the people that make them don't really have a clue about heat transfer let alone heat sink design or the design and placement of fans. I did once see an American home-built model with an USB port charging a phone.
The plethora of historic bigclive videos never cease to amaze me. I came here to see "bigclive reinvents the Keeley Motor Company" with a self powering machine that will change the world as we know it. And yet here we have a authentic device that could be easily improved to work much better (longer). Some properly heat shielded wiring, and smaller diameter motors with some asbestos (like) wrap and you would have a product that would blow asbestos (like) fibers at you for a lifetime. I want one.
The joke is that the stove radiates heat so it's is worse than without it. At least I think it's about that (it's almost midnight and my mom went to the hospital cut me some slack)
Dear Clive, I know F all about electronics, I have no idea what you're talking about....and yet I find your videos absolutely fascinating.....which is no doubt because I am in total wonder.....you have a lovely voice which is soothing to the ear, partnered with a dry and often sarcastic wit, when added to your attitude towards health and safety, and an utter disregard for conforming to political correctness I find myself in total awe, hypnotised if you will, to your aura of electronic knowledge. The bonus, is that you seem to have an authenticity about you, a genuine personality that is not just for 'the camera' As a fellow nerd I utterly commend you sir... I am a fan Kindest regards Kev
I was also eating when I started watching your video, but having a mom that have been working with old pepole an an ex girlfriend that was a nurce, I'm pretty hardend. they would start talking abaout dead paitients over dinner. Anyway I've been building a couple of stove fans and I just used generic 2v motors with steel back plates. And cheap peltiers. And cut off most of the plastic insulated wires, and used silicone wires instead.
I had never heard of a Peltier junction before today. I thought those mini-fridges has a whole mini-compressor set-up inside. And I would have guessed, sight unseen, that fans like this used some kind of Stirling engine. Now I have left the path of error, and am on the road of truth! Thanks, bigclive. As a great man once said, "Knowledge is good".
Peltier heat pumps can be made to run a lot more efficiently. Unfortunately it means under running them to the tune of 5%-10% of their rated maximum to get them to run well. Running one hard will only get you about 20% efficiency (5W used for each watt of heat transfer) but you can get them up to above 40% if you take the power way down. Unfortunately this means you need a truckload of the damn things to cool one can of drink.
@@gordonlawrence4749 I think it is you who needs to do some reading, especially about how a heat pump works. RWBHere is absolutely right. A heat pump does not break any thermodynamic laws as it does nor generate heat, but transfers it. So 1 watt used to feed a heat pump can result in transfer of 2 watts from cold side to hot, hence over 100% efficient versus energy consumed.
Clive, I took care of my mother for 3.5 yrs, I washed her, changed her diapers, and cleaned her after toilet etc....it was a difficult time, but, I had many incidents of my mother doing the same thing I'm many places throughout the house. She had a stroke then went to Alzheimer's. So, I know what you went through. Good video as always.
I believe they usually don't use Peltier devices for these. While a Peltier device would work, the ones that are more optimized for generating electricity rather than cooling when electricity is supplied are referred to as Thermoelectric Generators (TEG's) or Seebeck devices. They just dope the semiconductors a little differently making them more efficient, I believe. Fun note - you can oxidize a piece of solid copper wire, then take a clean piece and twist them together and measure a voltage across them when they are held over a flame or heat source, also due to the Seebeck effect. If I'm not mistaken, this is also how thermocouples work.
@@alec4672 My TS100 does have a screw you are supposed to attach ground to. It is marked with the earth ground symbol [ ⏚ ]. Some irons have an alligator clip lead. Mains powered irons may use the earth pin in the power socket.
We're using little 80W peltier-based dehumidifiers in the motor/gearbox cabin of our large satellite dish project. Keeps the condensation down during certain parts of the year. They work pretty well, but, granted aren't that efficient, but they are "right sized" for this particular job. Lack of environmental control for 25+ years was the cause of the only structural issue we found and needed repair before we could continue. A heater in the winter, and these little peltier guys in other parts of the year have really helped a LOT.
MrBanzoid I would have thought ceramic pearls on bare metal wires, same as inside a toaster. With the right type, I would expect that to happily survive 300°C or more. Isolation won't cover the wire completely, but keeping the wires away from each other would be good enough for a 12V circuit.
I can't imagine dealing with any kind of dementia, I've only seen it from the outside and it looks so incredibly hard for all involved. I'm glad you can find humour in those trials and tribulations. Love you Big Clive!
Nice walkthrough of a pretty clever device. I’ve got one of the “traditional” fans on a wood stove on one end of the house, and it makes the far side 2 or 3 degrees F warmer. Not bad for “free” energy!
6:00 If you -ever- have a wobbly/noisy motor/fan in electronics, always try some grease first. Silly things usually come dry, or with the thinnest layer of lubrication. Almost always fixes them permanently to just grease them. :D
I've found that as well with bathroom vent fans. They will start squawking like the bearing's being shredded. A few drops of oil shuts them up for another several years.
@@hughbrackett343 Annual event for our bathroom and laundry fans - dismantle, dust, chassis has a trip through the dish washer, then re-oil and re-assemble. As good as new - possibly better.
Many of these small motors do not have real bearings but instead rely on a lubricant impregnated bronze bushing and as the bushing eventually becomes worn the shaft will wobble within the bushing due to the inevitable imbalance in the fan blades or rotor and create a racket and a drop of oil will help with that since the oil film can help to stabilize the shaft so that it no longer impacts the bushing, though the oil will eventually need to be reapplied as it does not last forever and the bushing will continue to wear (more) slowly. A lot of small cheap motors also lack proper brushes and simply use a spring loaded copper lever in place of proper graphite brushes and those can suffer irreversible wear if the copper “brush” wears through (or breaks from the combined effects of thinning and work hardening) or can severely wear the commutator over time - oil will do nothing for that issue. And, of course, if the motor overheats to the point that the insulation of the windings breaks down then nothing can save the motor unless One wishes to rewind the coils - and that is a very real possibility when the fan fails to spin and cool things down as the winding insulation is likely rated at 150-200°C and the wiring insulation that we saw burned up was likely rated at anywhere from 75-105°C and it had already been severely cooked, so we know the temperatures were well over what the wiring insulation was rated for, so the windings themselves may have also started to short internally which would increase the current draw of the motor.
Big Clive, I really respect you for being able to laugh in a situation like seeing your mother with Alzheimers not being herself at all anymore. I'm not sure if there's a "depressive layer" behind all of this but if so you're one hell of a beast to be able to handle it as well as you do.
@@bigclivedotcom I have a brother in law that used to work on F-16's and we once used some $600/ounce high temp grease on a screeching hobby motor in a toy helicopter we were flying about in the hangar. Not only did the squeak stop, flight time increased by about 20% from the reduced friction. Not sure what that stuff was, but it was miraculous. Military budgets and all that.
Thank you, Andre Blanchard! That is what I thought the fan in this video was going to be, before bigclive took it apart and I learned there were such things as Peltier couplings. I am glad that at least things like this exist, and I did not have my head totally up my "arse", as bigclive might say.
Wonderful story about the stove and your mum, nice that you can laugh about it. Had a few incidents like that with my dad but that was due to chemo not alzheimers. As always a great educational and entertaining video.
In my experience these fans are an ornamental dust trap gimmick. I had one, and when the stove is hot enough to get the fan ripping round there's so much convection going on with a big lump of steel at 150 degrees C , that the small amount of puff that the fan contributes is rendered insignificant. Put a kettle on top and have a brew!!
I thought the same thing! I tried out an electric fan (not on the top!). It needed a lot of power/blow before I could feel anything more than 1/2 metre away. Instead, I put 8 small concrete paving blocks on top and let them heat up and radiate more heat slowly.
Mark Davis if you come across a scrap storage radiator, the brlcks in them are really dense. Store heat well : no surprises Our stoves set in a fireplace with 5" gap all round so we have the thermic reservoir of the chimney breast etc to absorb heat. Sadly it warms next door too. Some good rocket stove vids out there. Ppotty is worth checking out. Some people have put a rad next to the riser and gently pumped the water to a rad and fan in another room. That works
Lot's of DIY Stirling fans exist, but no commercial ones, because they are expensive to make and they are noisy. An Indian produces and sell a Kerosene powered pedestal fan, but they are crude: ruclips.net/video/ySF7zQoe0gs/видео.html
Hmm noisier than these when the bearings go though? And expense wise I got a Low temp stirling engine for Christmas that was $20 the higher temp ones are cheaper (the models at least) I think they would be a lot more fun for engineers at least and only the risk of mechanical failure not adding electricity into the mix.
Stirling engines are quite popular for sitting on top of wood burner stoves too. Obviously it still has bearings and moving parts, but no wires or low temperature soldered junctions like Peltier / Seebeck devices have. Fascinating things to build from a kit.
I bought one of those table top Stirling's some time ago (actually well built but reasonably priced). Have been fascinated by them ever since. They don't produce much torque or anything, but are so cool in their simplicity.
Mom's are the best. I love my mom so much. She's a good mom, always been a Angel all my life. Yes I'm a mom's boy for sure and I'm not ashamed of that. I don't live with my mom, I left the house when I was about 19 and started my own family and my own business. I'm 50 years old now, still on my own. Love your mom and respect your mom because she loves you more than you know. I'm not talking for the abusive mom's, those mom's need help.
I've been servicing these original devices here in B.C., Can. for 12 years and 95% of the failures I see are from them getting too hot. Folks think that if they put them on the hottest part of the stove they will get more BTU's out. The manf. instruction state not to do this but who reads instructions eh?? When I buy for the OEM ones I pay $2.25 for motors and $.75 for peltiers. Cheers, Billy in Canada
@@billyproctor9714 Being an European and just starting, apparently he was first introduced to AvE and "dollhairs". Next he learned "." before a number means "0.number". What's next? "ain't"? "bruh"? Jokes aside, a dot before a number means nothing to the Europeans.
Lol 😂 the point was at the end of the line and the 75 was at the beginning of the next, hence my mistake. And yes I am European and I know how to interpret the US decimal point. Thanks anyway!
I never knew there was such a fan, I knew of the Peltier coolers/heaters, the things you learn with Big Clive and as everyone else is thinking it thanks for sharing like I'm sure most did I had a little chuckle then felt bad.
I can't see a reason either, besides cabins w/o power. You're burning more fuel to offset the cooling effect on an expensive device that succumbs to quick heat death.
That's exactly it. They don't cost any more fuel as they just use a little of the heat already produced, and in return the room is heated more effectively as the fan circulates the hot air above the stove. Very neat little devices. (In case you're American we're talking about stoves as room heaters here as they are in Europe, rather than cookers.)
Technically, these fans are using the Seebeck effect, not Peltier. Seebeck effect = generating current from a temperature differential. Peltier effect = generating a temperature differential by passing current across the junction.
true is that. but for the sake of it lets just talk about the thermoelectriceffect then it does cover both of these effects and we do not need to differentiate between them
Hi Clive...I've been watching your videos for a good while now & really like them. I have to confess that my 2 & 3-year-olds use your videos to help them go to sleep for mid-day naps...Lol. My 3-year-old yells, "I want that Clive guy!" when he's getting ready for his nap(he did it today in fact). Please take it as a compliment...your voice apparently is very soothing to them! On another note....It's great that you are taking care of your mom at this point in her life. My mom passed away in August of 2017 after suffering with dementia/Alzheimers for several years. I miss her a lot and it seems that she left us long before her actual physical death because of the cruelty of the disease. My dad was a trouper & took care of her at home for all that time & had several incidents like the one you described in this video. Just hang in there...I know how tough & heart breaking it can be at times. Keep up the good work! -Len from Indianapolis, IN USA.
i made a stove fan not even a week ago. 10mins after putting it on the stove i smell burning plastic and i look. the wire of the peltier had unsoldered themselves, and the hot glue holding the motor had melted. the whole thing was boiling hot. i had made it with massive heatsinks from PII CPU, but the fan wasnt cooling them enought so it burned out.
Sounds like your setup is too close to the top of the stove. If you look at the fans you can buy, they often have a single piece of steel that is a few inches long that transfers the heat to the bottom of the peltier. Try using a couple rods or something to use as a space between the top of the stove and the bottom of the peltier to limit the heat transferred into it. The peltiers don't need that much heat on the bottom side to create the voltage you need.
Live and learn! No project is ever a failure so long as you learned something from the attempt. Besides, we learn infinitely more from failures than successes so long as we pay attention to the lesson.
Clive your story was funny but also dark I'm sure that wasn't easy I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I am 30 and it makes me think about possible futures with my parents. Best to you.
Same junction on RTG nuclear powered spacecraft. The hot side from reactor and the coldness of space on the other via heatsink. Very inefficient about 12% but very reliable, just throw a few more pellets on the barbi.
The only downside is that power output will deteriorate over time, but it is by far the best way we have of continuously powering craft for many decades without adequate sunlight for solar cells. Unfortunately, we are running critically low on plutonium for the pellets at present. It would be great if we could find a way forward to create some more refined plutonium without starting another nuclear arms race in the process as we do need more if we are to conduct more deep space missions where sunlight simply does not suffice as a power source. Better still if we can work out the kinks so that the TEG array does not deteriorate as much over time from the radiation it’s exposed to which would help to prolong operating efficiency. Though the only way to make a very long lasting RTG for very deep space missions is to opt for more stable isotopes with longer half lives, but then they have lower real time output and have to be scaled larger. It would be great if we could engineer some extreme high reliability deep space explorers complete with ion propulsion and large propellant reserves such that we could send satellites on missions of a century or more as there is so much that we do not know about the distant reaches of our solar system.
We have one of these at work with a large plate to heat up when you put it in the sun. They were a gift from one of the companies we do business with a lot.
I now have one of these for my wood burner. It is whimsically shaped like a little bi-plane. It also works very well for moving the warm air into the room.
OK Clive, this video has two topics worth note. One the Alzheimer's side, and the Peltier Junction side. One I have familiarity with and the other not. Sadly it was the Alzheimer's side I am familiar with, and have first hand experience with the need to laugh about situations that at the moment seem pretty crazy. By the way, I still have the chamber pot from the commode chair (unused) with the lid in my garage, always needing a container for something, I kept it. Now for the other side....can the Peltier Junction TEG/TEC be connected in series or parallel, depending upon needs? Is the voltage a product of surface area, (more=more better)?
I suppose the issue with serial connections might be a voltage differential between one and the other, similar to tungsten lamps in serial on a DC circuit so they become progressively less effective at cooling. Or if used to generate power then you could end up with one of the strips supplying power to the other and thus driving it. Parallel would seem to be best in either case. In my understanding anyhow.
Had one of the tall ones fail on me last year. It was the first one I had, and it ran for 8 years without issue. Bought another one two years ago and noticed how long the original one took to begin to spin, and how slow the maximum speed was compared to the new one, so I decided to tear it down. I removed all the graphite from the Peltier and cleaned it up with rubbing alcohol. Tore down the actual motor, (Which are very simple to open and repair) and cleaned up the commutator, (which was discoloured with use and age) with some 0000 steel wool. Ran a fine blade between the gaps of the split ring contacts to clear up a few shorts that had developed. A few drops of high heat oil on the bearings when reassembled and the motor was as good as new. Some high heat silver sink paste on the peltier upon assembly and the original fan then started faster than the new one and seemed to have a higher maximum speed too. Quite happy with these fans and their longevity.
Now let's see you convert one to run off a kerosene lamp for use while camping. Kerosene powered Stirling engine fans were popular in India and other countries before the days of electricity. I've wanted an old original one for decades but they are not easy to find here in the United States.
@@HelloKittyFanMan. They are kind of like a wife as they run ON heat and when they don't get enough heat they run OFF. Mostly they just run off as originally stated.
@@tenlittleindians: Haha, yeah, huh? And some of them work "out of home," and some homeless people live "out of their car," and some alarms "go off" when they sound, and this site is headquartered "out of California," huh? (And what are some more of those dumb ones?)
I've been making notes for an Alzheimer's video to try and cover the basics in a short video. It's intriguing the way people who have it turn into "stone age humans". They become hunters and gatherers of stuff that appeals to them and turn their bedroom into a little cave of their hoard.
Could you modify one of these with a higher end CPU cooler instead of the big chunk of extruded aluminum? I wonder if it would allow it to start up at a lower temperature and provide more airflow for a given temp.
I've seen a couple on youtube - the one by Brian Ealy is especially notable for the magnificent beardage on screen. I'd guess a heatpipe would move the heat more efficiently and reduce the chance of the sort of slow start overheating clive's had in these units - but it's probably easy to underestimate the clever thermal design that's gone in to the shop bought ones too
People used to use them as CPU coolers. The problem being if you accidentally cool the CPU below ambient air temperature then you in essence create a dehumidifier (and also lots of water and condensation inside the chasis). You could use monitoring equipment but should it fail or be unable to tell the difference between room temperature and chasis temperature you could still end up with a fair amount of moisture which is never good with circuitry. It takes watercooling to a new level! The safest and least complicated method is air circulation. Just standard fan and radiator. The chasis and CPU would always be warmer than the temperature of the room so never suffer from water issues. So if you were to use a Peltier to keep the system above ambient temperature anyway, it seems a waste of technology and money, simply introducing a further unnecessary opportunity to fail.
I suppose you could, but you'd have condensation issues if you went below dew point. You're also strapping a device that needs a heatsink to replace a heatsink so not much value.
I feel like this would be a perfect application for a stirling engine! Our fridge freezer uses about 80W but probably around 15% duty cycle from the graphs (yes I have graphs). However, our kitchen is about 15C typically.
Back in the early '80s, my oldest brother was holding our cat by its front paws and swung it toward the ceiling. The cat shot a turd up at the ceiling leaving a brown mark up there that lasted until it was painted a few years later. That cat usually pooped in the kitchen garbage disposal every time he was given a bath...
My oldest brother was always kind of weird. There was a phase when I was like 4 to 6 years old when he would slap my butt when I passed his bedroom door. It hurt like hell! I really only found out recently that our father molested him and tortured him with a belt every time he had a bad day at work. This was mostly or entirely before I was born. My mother kept me largely insulated from it. I think. She had no idea our father was doing that, and she didn't approve of the use of a belt for spanking us.
I've always been fascinated by those fans. They don't blow cold air because it's the heat that makes them go. Also the fan cools the top and makes a bigger heat differential which makes the fan go faster which makes a bigger heat differential, etc.
Interesting, I have an identical single blade version, and recently replaced the motor after it failed. The original motor must have clocked up around 5000 hours. Sometimes I give the blade a little push to help it start up. Hopefully I will get another 6 years of service from the new £3 motor. I love your channel btw.
My uncle has one of these from the 80s the wiring is bare and passes through ceramic tubes where it needs to like knob and tube wiring. The whole motor is exposed and the shaft rides in brass bushings. I bought the most spendy one on the shelf at the store when I got mine, it's made of copper and the wiring seems to have silicone insulation.
They're used to blow the heat from a stove into a room rather than letting it go up to the ceiling. They're neat because they use the heat from the stove to drive the fans. Often used on wood burning stoves.
Used a lot on narrowboats in the UK, keeps the air slowly moving around and helps prevent the cold feet hot head symptoms of being in a part submerged steel tube and helps take the chill off the rest of the boat given time. Being off grid it saves having to power another device from the 12v or 240v systems
Your story made me laugh. My partner’s grandma has lived with us for 5 years now. She’s 95 and has Alzheimer’s which has slowly gotten worse over the years. Taking care of her, especially with the incontinence issues, has been challenging lol. But we love her and you just have to laugh or you’ll go crazy.
I definitely agree on the fridge aspect, I had a peltier cooled mini fridge for a while, at most it'd take 6x 330ml cans, not that great in the summer, and would make a god awful racket with its' original fan (I later replaced it and made a video of the upgrade), then later I rescued a Bosch fridge from being scrapped, swapped it with the uncle's smaller Husky brand fridge, and now I have a nice, quiet, roomy (in comparison!), compressor-driven fridge instead... :)
I always thought they were cool, but what is the point, if your oven is too hot, turn it down or open a window, not everybody has an arger they have to keep on all the time for heat 🤣
Hi Clive ace video ,just purchased a log burner ( or wood burner dont think i will be depositing a log in it, mother storey ) and a fan and very intrested how they work ,now I know .Ace mate keep it up .
ahhhh Clive we non technicals ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR VIDEO'S...a massive LIKE from south east London LALALA to you,Ralfy and your pals there in the Irish Sea 👜👜⚡👍👍👍!!
Those Peltier devices are used in portable cooler/heater units here, especially for trucks and such. I had one for a few years, Actually worked pretty well but it liked it's power....
The Stirling Engine based ones are far better at actually moving air - however I resorted to a mains fan in the ens - as neither really circulated enough! Love it if you could do a stirling engine tear-down and power analysis!
There are units designed for heating and cooling and there are units designed for power generation that use different metals and are able to handle much more temperature differential without delaminating. There is a high temperature unit in the BioLite stove. A stove that generates usb power from the heat of a small fan forced wood/biomass stove. Once again a great video interesting and informative.
Hey Clive :) you reminded me that years back, I watched our Antiques Roadshow here in the states. and they had an antique / low tech version of these. it was a fan that had a kerosene [ parifin ] burner built into the base, and the heat from the burner would go up the stand and use heat conduction to turn an impeller of sorts, which would drive the fan blade.
i have the "traditional" version of that on my stove right now, spinning away as i write this :) it really does as advertised, circulating the air in my living room
I wonder why no heatsink or CPU manufacturers don't use Peltier plates, In my mind the cool side on the CPU and the warm side facing up connected to a heatsink would surely make it run much cooler overall than just a heatsink and fan.
@@nerd1000ify PCR certainly, but also popular on microscope cold stages . For bulk cooling many labs use those "desktop refrigerated plates", also seen in bars - where cans, etc can be kept cool without being in a fridge.
My dad has one of these fans on top of his wood burner. It got me thinking back to those electric bar fires, with the moulded fibreglass coal effect and spinners suspended on pins over white, orange or red bulbs. The convection caused the spin and I used to wonder if this method on a bigger scale, could be used as a generator to power lights or whatever?
I'd recommend getting some of that sleeving that protects wiring from heat. I think it's made of fiberglass, and I usually see it covering piezo igniter wires.
Mother taking a dump :) warm ;) story, and surprising... And, I have a couple of somewhat big stove fans that have done a perfect job for many years. It is important to place them on the right spot of the stove, with not so much heat "behind" it. I usually wait till the stove surface is hot before I place them, always on the same, optimal, spot.
0:29... It is a Peltier Cell comprised of PN junctions running in the Seebeck effect to produce voltage/current for the low voltage motor. 6:58... Those type Peltier cells are called TEGs (Thermo Electric Generators) and are specifically designed to produce voltage/current. The white ceramic ones on eBay are standard TECs. 10:39... I would use silicone insulated wire for the high temperatures on top of a wood burning stove.
My Grandfather had alzheimer's as well. Near the end he was hospitalized for about three months. My grandfather served in WW2 and he was a pretty cool tempered guy for the most part, but during those last few months, I really felt sorry for the nurses that had to take care of him. He was a real handful.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
By the title I thought it was going to be a fake perpetual-motion machine.
yeah i was like "ooh i wonder where the battery is hidden"
Ditto as well.
Until I get a second look at the image before stirring the video in realized wood stove Heat powered fan I think?
I wonder if they have a stirling engine type of fan similar to that or other type of heat engine does not electric theoretically it could be done.
You'd have more than enough heat energy to do it because there's some that operate on below the temperature of boiling water.
Or maybe somebody do a DYI version here on RUclips either one I will check possibly post a link if I see anything for those are interested.
Thought about that a long time ago but then I had forgotten about it until now you know how things go.
Also it's not technically self-powering which really nothing can be no such thing as professional arity or perpetual motion right as you were saying you thought it was going to be with those devices.
As you know energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Just converted from one form to another.
And this case Heat to electrical true mechanical and of course some heat do the losses in the motors.
Doodle bosses that's where the inefficiency comes from and nothing is 100% efficient.
Which brings back in thermodynamics which is the basis of self-powering machines at least part of it being impossible.
Those overunity machines and such.
So-called free energy.
With free energy You could argue that if the energy that's being used does it really cost anything....
Indicating of course expense of harvesting ink quotes that energy.
Technically there would be such a thing as free energy in a technicality of course.
As they say no such thing as a free lunch.
You did have to walk somewhere or drive somewhere or whatever to go get your supposedly free burger right it cost money to do that now doesn't it in one form or another.
If you you walked dresses are you wore out your shoes a little Teensy tiny panty those shoes cost money don't they.
And sub Penny level we're on the Soles means it's costing you money.
And also speaking of energy the energy you would give up in terms of walking to get the free lunch that's something.
Even if it's not monetary it's still not free.
But what they call Energy harvesting Aki recovering energy from the environment such as thermal mechanical and in some cases electrical and alarm for my neck fields or radio waves theoretically you could actually Harvest yes Harvest energy for some applications Niche area of course.
And do some quote on Port work such as in the case of one of these fans.
Although years ago I did win a science fair with something that one might consider free energy however it was using electricity that was already present in the environment in low levels feels being picked by 2 I think it was a hundred foot wire antennas.
And if I remember a ground as well.
It was a LCD battery powered clock module basically that sort of one that had the adhesive on the back like those that was just a simple LCD clock.
It was a custom circuit it was two of them I designed myself.
Can't remember all what the circuit had in it of course too long ago.
But it would run the digital clock module without a battery I did have it on a clear mounting service to prove that there was no power source other than the circuitry itself and the harvested energy.
Also at that school we could also when we are doing classwork which I did this both muscle is fair and class projects yes plural
English for the write-up of the project.
Science for obvious reasons.
And Technology even of course because of obvious reasons.
And Shop because I did most of the construction at least the mechanical construction at school utilizing shop equipment we had.
For one at that time I did not have a drill press.
Nor proper tools to work for acrylic without cracking it when drilling it.
I thought it would be a better science project than something like vegetable batteries or something.
AKA potato clock excetera.
by the way that project kept working for years and years and years it actually kept good time The only time I've ever had to reset it was just due to the in accuracy of the clock itself over years.
It was actually the most accurate clock in our house believe it or not.
it seemed to be more accurate than the digital clocks on AC power!
As a side note one of the antennas also served as my basement radio antenna at times.
Yeah yeah I know I'm responding to my own comment but I just remembered something.
Even though it's not true perpetual motion or anything but it's harvested energy like I was mentioning it in the previous comment of my own.
There was a clock that or clocks that were called Perpetual clocks or something like that years and years ago antiques.
Is that would run almost what one would call indefinite except of course if you and stop them accidentally or move them too much or whatever.
Also note that they would require a manual start once you put them in place.
The energy source was not actually free energy or perpetual motion at all.
But used a combination of temperature changes and barometric changes to power to clock mechanism mechanically.
Also they were very finicky and required some maintenance to keep them running of course and it had to be kept very very clean is a precise tolerances and stuff more so than other mechanical clock to the time.
I used to know someone that had one of these on his mantle.
I saw it and notice there was no winding key or what seemed to be a way to do it why did up and asked he says all you don't have to.
He said if I keep it maintained it keeps running.
I'm like what!!!!
And he said you know he said something wrong or Perpetual or something rather something or other clock I said that's impossible.
Then he explained it to me how it worked.
He was actually a person that repaired clocks and watches. I did know it because that was the first time I've ever met him at his place.
And then he took me downstairs and show me down to his Workshop.
As well as he had all kinds of clocks including really old electric clocks and stuff I never seen.
Even Old Timers and stuff it was pretty cool I think you can more clocks in one room then. Brown had in his entire place.
One thing to note most of the try me and or striking clocks were modified so that the mechanism could be turned on and off in one way or another due to the fact that there would be so many going off at once.
And most of them are fairly close in time.
Aaron Brandenburg , please .. shut up already.
same
I love the inclusion of the bimetallic strip, that's genius.
Yeah, surprised me, I'm pretty sure my mate's one doesn't have that.
In theory it was genius, in reality we still have burnt motors.
If the strip just knocks the thing on it's back, then the wires etc are gonna be even closer to the heat, and melt immediately. Either way, it's going to stop electricity being generated, stopping the fan, which is the main source of cooling. It might do more harm than good. You'd need to really think through that design, maybe with something more complex. Maybe have some insulator somehow come into play. Another problem would be what to build it out of. Metal is good for not melting, but also a good heat conductor. At an extreme you could stick aerogel around the whole thing but that might affect the price more than people would be willing to put up with.
@@greenaum it doesn’t completely stop the heat, and it doesn’t knock it over, just tips it up as you do a pot thats about to boil over. Just remove enough heat that it wont screw up.
Clive I'm always really glad that you talk about your mother and her alzheimer's so openly and with such a positive attitude from time to time in your videos. My grandmother had early signs of dementia and I can really relate to your stories. Hopefully it never happens but if anyone else in my life is diagnosed, now that I am a little older and wiser I will be sure to take on a similar patience and attitude.
Oh, Clive! "He liked period furniture... That doesn't mean it was red and moist..."
It was a nod to a Family Guy period joke.
@@bigclivedotcom Oh! I thought it meant something entirely different, pertaining to the female of our species. Sorry.
@@bigclivedotcom Oooo Clive, time is going to tell if you get away with that one. You will end up with the feminist or PC brigade after you. What a mix, electronics, periods and shit. Nothing unusual there.
@@nickbird7742 If I recall correctly, Clive did say he wanted to have the trashiest electronics channel on RUclips. =D
Brings a whole new meaning to throwing another log on the stove!
Clive it’s an awful awful disease as you well know and to view it with a sense of humour is the only way we get through these difficult times.
You are an amazing man and just as amazing a son.
You were a good son to her Clive... It will go down in your fixed deposit of good deeds for sure. Luvya.
What the fuck are u twatting on about?
@@killer-kane The death of Clives mother
You're essentially one of my favorite humans. You're a good person Clive, even as bad as your bad side likely is. I salute you my friend. You have nearly a half a million people around the world who follow you and some large portion of them continuously watch your content regularly. I hope you know that we will watch your content, no matter the message because you're a great creator. If you need to ever use your videos for a release (if you don't already), please never feel the need to stifle or censor yourself; this is your outlet. I feel confident in saying we would not think less of you for NOT censoring yourself, more so if you DID censor yourself. Thank you for always being you or what appears to be you on camera and thank you for bring up the hard topics that need to be talked about. Unknowingly, you are likely bringing solace to others who unfortunately do not have an outlet.
Thank you.
WELL SAID... Brian... very well said.
Agreed
Couldn't have put it better myself,
You kind of expect to see Chubaca in the next Star Wars taking apart an LED circuit. And Clive's fans go wild.
Beautiful sentiments ! and I wholly Agree.
Tells a joke about ‘period furniture’ than few moments later apologizes for a squeaky noise.
Thank you for your brutal honesty. Your a great man in many ways!
I usually watch your videos when coming back from work, while having my dinner.
Today I'm on a diet.
Bad time to start eating ey? *the big clive diet always works*
Amazing.
Wait... you drive, watch RUclips, AND eat, all while coming home from work? Where do you work, again, so I can AVOID that part of the country around evening rush hour? :-p
Same issue here, got as far as boiling the water, started watching this video while I waited.
Can't not eat as it makes my current upset stomach worse.
Thanks Big Clive for putting me into the situation where I'm going to feel sick either way.
Artemis Kitty - to be fair, he never said anything about driving, so could be in a boat, ship, bus, train or a plane...
I was drinking a cup of Hot Chocolate (a cold Canadian drive home from work warrants one when I get home) and when you told your Mom story I laughed so hard Hot Chocolate squirted out of my nose and all over my screen......You are awesome. Please dont change.
lol. That brings back memories when I used to do it while drinking a cup of tea and having a laugh with my brothers.
reminds me of when my sister wouldn't get out of the bathroom so my friend shit in the hallway
Ah, the old days. Milk out the nose was a goal in the cafeteria.
Are oldest daughter is working hard to help keep they elderly in there homes as long as possible she's only 19 year old and fell in love with the job. She as meet some lovely people and cared for them with their families thank you for telling people as it is.
Got one on my wood stove now. Running fine. Had it for years. Great conversation starter with new people around the house. Mama drama sucks. Dealt with similar. My condolences. Thanx.
You’re are good man Clive. I have similar stories as my Nan and Granddad got older. Even with all the issues, still miss them dearly.
Great story about your mother, couldn’t stop laughing 😂 My dad had Alzheimer’s, he did a few funny things... when asked what would he like for his 75th birthday at a family gathering, he replied “a bit of rumpy pumpy!” 👀 It’s great to have those ‘lighter’ moments when things are tough. Great channel, keep it up 👍😉
Peltiers are used extensively in optical communications devices for controlling semiconductor laser temperature very precisely.
Loved your story about your mom. When my dad would say or do something that seemed inappropriate, I would enjoy trying to guess what was in his mind, and how it somehow made sense to him. Sometimes I could. Mostly not so much.
I love these incredible little devices. I believe that most of the people that make them don't really have a clue about heat transfer let alone heat sink design or the design and placement of fans. I did once see an American home-built model with an USB port charging a phone.
The plethora of historic bigclive videos never cease to amaze me.
I came here to see "bigclive reinvents the Keeley Motor Company" with a self powering machine that will change the world as we know it.
And yet here we have a authentic device that could be easily improved to work much better (longer). Some properly heat shielded wiring, and smaller diameter motors with some asbestos (like) wrap and you would have a product that would blow asbestos (like) fibers at you for a lifetime. I want one.
When its summer and its hot, better turn on the stove to get my fan running.
Felix if it is a electric stove than it should work.
The joke is that the stove radiates heat so it's is worse than without it.
At least I think it's about that (it's almost midnight and my mom went to the hospital cut me some slack)
@Mute Stingray Heat radiates. Moving air to keep hot air from pooling at the ceiling.
@Mute Stingray Purpose is to mix the cold air on the floor with the hot air on the ceiling using the heat source for power.
LOL! I was going to say this too. My thought exactly.
Dear Clive,
I know F all about electronics, I have no idea what you're talking about....and yet I find your videos absolutely fascinating.....which is no doubt because I am in total wonder.....you have a lovely voice which is soothing to the ear, partnered with a dry and often sarcastic wit, when added to your attitude towards health and safety, and an utter disregard for conforming to political correctness I find myself in total awe, hypnotised if you will, to your aura of electronic knowledge. The bonus, is that you seem to have an authenticity about you, a genuine personality that is not just for 'the camera'
As a fellow nerd I utterly commend you sir...
I am a fan
Kindest regards
Kev
I was also eating when I started watching your video, but having a mom that have been working with old pepole an an ex girlfriend that was a nurce, I'm pretty hardend. they would start talking abaout dead paitients over dinner.
Anyway I've been building a couple of stove fans and I just used generic 2v motors with steel back plates. And cheap peltiers. And cut off most of the plastic insulated wires, and used silicone wires instead.
I had never heard of a Peltier junction before today. I thought those mini-fridges has a whole mini-compressor set-up inside. And I would have guessed, sight unseen, that fans like this used some kind of Stirling engine. Now I have left the path of error, and am on the road of truth! Thanks, bigclive. As a great man once said, "Knowledge is good".
Peltier heat pumps can be made to run a lot more efficiently. Unfortunately it means under running them to the tune of 5%-10% of their rated maximum to get them to run well. Running one hard will only get you about 20% efficiency (5W used for each watt of heat transfer) but you can get them up to above 40% if you take the power way down. Unfortunately this means you need a truckload of the damn things to cool one can of drink.
Thermal mass.
ruclips.net/video/YWUhwmmZa7A/видео.html
And a well-designed refrigerator heat pump will be way above 100% efficient, because it is effectively throwing heat away.
Now go and learn some thermodynamics. Or even basic physics. Or even read what you are replying to.
@@gordonlawrence4749 I think it is you who needs to do some reading, especially about how a heat pump works. RWBHere is absolutely right. A heat pump does not break any thermodynamic laws as it does nor generate heat, but transfers it. So 1 watt used to feed a heat pump can result in transfer of 2 watts from cold side to hot, hence over 100% efficient versus energy consumed.
Clive, I took care of my mother for 3.5 yrs, I washed her, changed her diapers, and cleaned her after toilet etc....it was a difficult time, but, I had many incidents of my mother doing the same thing I'm many places throughout the house.
She had a stroke then went to Alzheimer's.
So, I know what you went through.
Good video as always.
I believe they usually don't use Peltier devices for these. While a Peltier device would work, the ones that are more optimized for generating electricity rather than cooling when electricity is supplied are referred to as Thermoelectric Generators (TEG's) or Seebeck devices. They just dope the semiconductors a little differently making them more efficient, I believe.
Fun note - you can oxidize a piece of solid copper wire, then take a clean piece and twist them together and measure a voltage across them when they are held over a flame or heat source, also due to the Seebeck effect. If I'm not mistaken, this is also how thermocouples work.
back in the day i was soldering leds and i saw them light up faintly when i heated the solder joint.
@@Francois_Dupont That was because of power bleed from your soldering iron (tip not earthed).
@@JuanHerrero Really? Id like to see that event reconstructed to appease my suspicious doubting mind...
@@JuanHerrero Your soldering iron has a ground pin??
@@alec4672 My TS100 does have a screw you are supposed to attach ground to. It is marked with the earth ground symbol [ ⏚ ]. Some irons have an alligator clip lead. Mains powered irons may use the earth pin in the power socket.
We're using little 80W peltier-based dehumidifiers in the motor/gearbox cabin of our large satellite dish project. Keeps the condensation down during certain parts of the year. They work pretty well, but, granted aren't that efficient, but they are "right sized" for this particular job. Lack of environmental control for 25+ years was the cause of the only structural issue we found and needed repair before we could continue. A heater in the winter, and these little peltier guys in other parts of the year have really helped a LOT.
Why not use silicone wire? It would be able to withstand the heat no problem!
My thought exactly.
I've ordered some.
@@bigclivedotcom Teflon might be even better.
MrBanzoid I would have thought ceramic pearls on bare metal wires, same as inside a toaster. With the right type, I would expect that to happily survive 300°C or more. Isolation won't cover the wire completely, but keeping the wires away from each other would be good enough for a 12V circuit.
10cents more? NO WAY!
I can't imagine dealing with any kind of dementia, I've only seen it from the outside and it looks so incredibly hard for all involved. I'm glad you can find humour in those trials and tribulations. Love you Big Clive!
That's one crazy extrusion. Bet it looks cool when they're making it.
They're a absolute pain in the arse, very narrow range between them extruding with no distortion and it slumping into a mess,
erik61801 Pun?
@@Mike.Nov51 I thought that too
Nice walkthrough of a pretty clever device. I’ve got one of the “traditional” fans on a wood stove on one end of the house, and it makes the far side 2 or 3 degrees F warmer. Not bad for “free” energy!
6:00 If you -ever- have a wobbly/noisy motor/fan in electronics, always try some grease first. Silly things usually come dry, or with the thinnest layer of lubrication. Almost always fixes them permanently to just grease them. :D
It sounds like the commutator has been worn down to nothing as there is no power switch on these devices (i use to fix brushed RC motors)
I've found that as well with bathroom vent fans. They will start squawking like the bearing's being shredded. A few drops of oil shuts them up for another several years.
@@hughbrackett343 Annual event for our bathroom and laundry fans - dismantle, dust, chassis has a trip through the dish washer, then re-oil and re-assemble. As good as new - possibly better.
Many of these small motors do not have real bearings but instead rely on a lubricant impregnated bronze bushing and as the bushing eventually becomes worn the shaft will wobble within the bushing due to the inevitable imbalance in the fan blades or rotor and create a racket and a drop of oil will help with that since the oil film can help to stabilize the shaft so that it no longer impacts the bushing, though the oil will eventually need to be reapplied as it does not last forever and the bushing will continue to wear (more) slowly. A lot of small cheap motors also lack proper brushes and simply use a spring loaded copper lever in place of proper graphite brushes and those can suffer irreversible wear if the copper “brush” wears through (or breaks from the combined effects of thinning and work hardening) or can severely wear the commutator over time - oil will do nothing for that issue. And, of course, if the motor overheats to the point that the insulation of the windings breaks down then nothing can save the motor unless One wishes to rewind the coils - and that is a very real possibility when the fan fails to spin and cool things down as the winding insulation is likely rated at 150-200°C and the wiring insulation that we saw burned up was likely rated at anywhere from 75-105°C and it had already been severely cooked, so we know the temperatures were well over what the wiring insulation was rated for, so the windings themselves may have also started to short internally which would increase the current draw of the motor.
Your story of your mother was heartwarming.
I've been there too, Clive. Presumably the majority of our mothers had to do similar for us.
We always trade places. our parents become our children in the end whivh is sad but true.
Big Clive, I really respect you for being able to laugh in a situation like seeing your mother with Alzheimers not being herself at all anymore. I'm not sure if there's a "depressive layer" behind all of this but if so you're one hell of a beast to be able to handle it as well as you do.
Those graphite pads have recently been introduced to the PC world as reusable thermal pads.
Also, any luck just oiling those fan motors?
I'm going to try some high temperature lubricant in them. The original has escaped onto the fan hub. I ordered some graphite pads too.
@@bigclivedotcom I have a brother in law that used to work on F-16's and we once used some $600/ounce high temp grease on a screeching hobby motor in a toy helicopter we were flying about in the hangar. Not only did the squeak stop, flight time increased by about 20% from the reduced friction. Not sure what that stuff was, but it was miraculous. Military budgets and all that.
It's pixie dust in mineral oil.
@@tiporari teflon and moly or something. turbine use air bearing so i doubt they are greased as the temp reach 1000C+++
I believe that you can buy silicone oil in an aerosol can.
In Canada we have used them for years and even though they won't "blow you over" they do move the air..thanks for the teardown
Not exactly what I'd call "self powered". Thermally powered seems to be a more accurate description. Really cool though!
"Really cool though" Only on one side...
You can nay change the laws of thermodynamics
@pmailkeey You can buy them, a bit expensive. www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=THERMALENGINE
Thank you, Andre Blanchard! That is what I thought the fan in this video was going to be, before bigclive took it apart and I learned there were such things as Peltier couplings. I am glad that at least things like this exist, and I did not have my head totally up my "arse", as bigclive might say.
It essentially is partially self powering, because the fan is required to keep the temperature difference.
Wonderful story about the stove and your mum, nice that you can laugh about it. Had a few incidents like that with my dad but that was due to chemo not alzheimers.
As always a great educational and entertaining video.
In my experience these fans are an ornamental dust trap gimmick. I had one, and when the stove is hot enough to get the fan ripping round there's so much convection going on with a big lump of steel at 150 degrees C , that the small amount of puff that the fan contributes is rendered insignificant. Put a kettle on top and have a brew!!
Yep I'm a bit dubious for cube shape rooms, though it might make more sense for canal longboats
Good mention earlier for a fan above extrusion blowing rising hot air down - Could suit square rooms better?
I thought the same thing! I tried out an electric fan (not on the top!). It needed a lot of power/blow before I could feel anything more than 1/2 metre away. Instead, I put 8 small concrete paving blocks on top and let them heat up and radiate more heat slowly.
Mark Davis if you come across a scrap storage radiator, the brlcks in them are really dense. Store heat well : no surprises
Our stoves set in a fireplace with 5" gap all round so we have the thermic reservoir of the chimney breast etc to absorb heat. Sadly it warms next door too. Some good rocket stove vids out there. Ppotty is worth checking out.
Some people have put a rad next to the riser and gently pumped the water to a rad and fan in another room. That works
Seeing old tech improved through use of modern tech is strangely satisfying. Computer controlled steam engines are a good example.
why not a stirling engine stove fan?
Lot's of DIY Stirling fans exist, but no commercial ones, because they are expensive to make and they are noisy. An Indian produces and sell a Kerosene powered pedestal fan, but they are crude: ruclips.net/video/ySF7zQoe0gs/видео.html
Probably engineering tolerances make it too expensive compared to this solution...
Hmm noisier than these when the bearings go though? And expense wise I got a Low temp stirling engine for Christmas that was $20 the higher temp ones are cheaper (the models at least) I think they would be a lot more fun for engineers at least and only the risk of mechanical failure not adding electricity into the mix.
@@Tore_Lund That link is still very cool crude or not. Id love one but no doubt it will be too expensive even just to ship it
@@Tore_Lund At least one manufacturer of them Vulcan Stove Fans: www.stirlingengine.co.uk/d.asp?product=VULCANSTOVEFAN. I have one works fine.
Stirling engines are quite popular for sitting on top of wood burner stoves too. Obviously it still has bearings and moving parts, but no wires or low temperature soldered junctions like Peltier / Seebeck devices have. Fascinating things to build from a kit.
I bought one of those table top Stirling's some time ago (actually well built but reasonably priced). Have been fascinated by them ever since. They don't produce much torque or anything, but are so cool in their simplicity.
"Marge, can you set the oven to cold?"
Mom's are the best. I love my mom so much. She's a good mom, always been a Angel all my life. Yes I'm a mom's boy for sure and I'm not ashamed of that. I don't live with my mom, I left the house when I was about 19 and started my own family and my own business. I'm 50 years old now, still on my own. Love your mom and respect your mom because she loves you more than you know. I'm not talking for the abusive mom's, those mom's need help.
I've been servicing these original devices here in B.C., Can. for 12 years and 95% of the failures I see are from them getting too hot. Folks think that if they put them on the hottest part of the stove they will get more BTU's out. The manf. instruction state not to do this but who reads instructions eh?? When I buy for the OEM ones I pay $2.25 for motors and $.75 for peltiers. Cheers, Billy in Canada
$75 for the peltiers that’s a lot (even in Canukistan dolhairs) How big were these?
@@Conservator. That would be point 75, not 75.
There is a " . " in there , 75 cents. Thanks,@@Conservator.
@@billyproctor9714 Being an European and just starting, apparently he was first introduced to AvE and "dollhairs". Next he learned "." before a number means "0.number". What's next? "ain't"? "bruh"?
Jokes aside, a dot before a number means nothing to the Europeans.
Lol 😂 the point was at the end of the line and the 75 was at the beginning of the next, hence my mistake.
And yes I am European and I know how to interpret the US decimal point.
Thanks anyway!
I never knew there was such a fan, I knew of the Peltier coolers/heaters, the things you learn with Big Clive and as everyone else is thinking it thanks for sharing like I'm sure most did I had a little chuckle then felt bad.
I never knew devices like this existed.
I can't see a reason either, besides cabins w/o power. You're burning more fuel to offset the cooling effect on an expensive device that succumbs to quick heat death.
@@hydrocarbon82 It's meant to circulate the heat on multi burning stoves and stops heat from just sitting on the gap above.
That's exactly it. They don't cost any more fuel as they just use a little of the heat already produced, and in return the room is heated more effectively as the fan circulates the hot air above the stove. Very neat little devices. (In case you're American we're talking about stoves as room heaters here as they are in Europe, rather than cookers.)
Haven't seen or heard of these in Australia!
@Hydrocarbon82 Without this, 100% of the heat rises above the stove. With this, 99.99% of the heat is circulated around the room.
The magic pixies in those motors sure are angry and loud.
Keep up the amazing videos, Clive!
Technically, these fans are using the Seebeck effect, not Peltier.
Seebeck effect = generating current from a temperature differential.
Peltier effect = generating a temperature differential by passing current across the junction.
true is that. but for the sake of it lets just talk about the thermoelectriceffect then it does cover both of these effects and we do not need to differentiate between them
Hi Clive...I've been watching your videos for a good while now & really like them. I have to confess that my 2 & 3-year-olds use your videos to help them go to sleep for mid-day naps...Lol. My 3-year-old yells, "I want that Clive guy!" when he's getting ready for his nap(he did it today in fact). Please take it as a compliment...your voice apparently is very soothing to them! On another note....It's great that you are taking care of your mom at this point in her life. My mom passed away in August of 2017 after suffering with dementia/Alzheimers for several years. I miss her a lot and it seems that she left us long before her actual physical death because of the cruelty of the disease. My dad was a trouper & took care of her at home for all that time & had several incidents like the one you described in this video. Just hang in there...I know how tough & heart breaking it can be at times. Keep up the good work! -Len from Indianapolis, IN USA.
My voice is apparently use to lull lots of kids and adults to sleep. Not something I was expecting when I started making videos.
@@bigclivedotcom i guess that means you should make a channel reading bedtime story's XD
So the lesson is, dont leave it on the heater while it heats up, put it on when the heater is fully hot
I said it in the Patreon post, and I’ll say it again. You are a wonderful human being, Clive.
i made a stove fan not even a week ago. 10mins after putting it on the stove i smell burning plastic and i look. the wire of the peltier had unsoldered themselves, and the hot glue holding the motor had melted. the whole thing was boiling hot. i had made it with massive heatsinks from PII CPU, but the fan wasnt cooling them enought so it burned out.
Sounds like your setup is too close to the top of the stove. If you look at the fans you can buy, they often have a single piece of steel that is a few inches long that transfers the heat to the bottom of the peltier. Try using a couple rods or something to use as a space between the top of the stove and the bottom of the peltier to limit the heat transferred into it. The peltiers don't need that much heat on the bottom side to create the voltage you need.
Motor was hold by hot glue??? You must be joking?
@@111chicane Hm, what does hot glue do when you heat it? I know this one - just give me a minute... :)
Live and learn! No project is ever a failure so long as you learned something from the attempt. Besides, we learn infinitely more from failures than successes so long as we pay attention to the lesson.
Clive your story was funny but also dark I'm sure that wasn't easy I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I am 30 and it makes me think about possible futures with my parents. Best to you.
Same junction on RTG nuclear powered spacecraft. The hot side from reactor and the coldness of space on the other via heatsink. Very inefficient about 12% but very reliable, just throw a few more pellets on the barbi.
The only downside is that power output will deteriorate over time, but it is by far the best way we have of continuously powering craft for many decades without adequate sunlight for solar cells. Unfortunately, we are running critically low on plutonium for the pellets at present. It would be great if we could find a way forward to create some more refined plutonium without starting another nuclear arms race in the process as we do need more if we are to conduct more deep space missions where sunlight simply does not suffice as a power source. Better still if we can work out the kinks so that the TEG array does not deteriorate as much over time from the radiation it’s exposed to which would help to prolong operating efficiency. Though the only way to make a very long lasting RTG for very deep space missions is to opt for more stable isotopes with longer half lives, but then they have lower real time output and have to be scaled larger. It would be great if we could engineer some extreme high reliability deep space explorers complete with ion propulsion and large propellant reserves such that we could send satellites on missions of a century or more as there is so much that we do not know about the distant reaches of our solar system.
We have one of these at work with a large plate to heat up when you put it in the sun. They were a gift from one of the companies we do business with a lot.
What do you call a potty with wheels?
A great commode of transport.
Portapotty
Great, more skid marks and donuts to contend with in the car park
I always just called the Chevys ;)
A girlfriend once bought a UK Chevrolet and insisted on a stickshift gearbox which somehow filled up with water and needed replacing.
or a roll-a-Go-Go
I now have one of these for my wood burner. It is whimsically shaped like a little bi-plane. It also works very well for moving the warm air into the room.
We call a chamber pot a gazunder because it gazunder the bed!
No. Too cringy.
Same here in the north east.
BRILLIANT videos, thank you, you explain things efficiently and exceptionally well, without insulting my intelligence.
BRILLIANT, I say.
Many thanks.
OK Clive, this video has two topics worth note. One the Alzheimer's side, and the Peltier Junction side. One I have familiarity with and the other not. Sadly it was the Alzheimer's side I am familiar with, and have first hand experience with the need to laugh about situations that at the moment seem pretty crazy. By the way, I still have the chamber pot from the commode chair (unused) with the lid in my garage, always needing a container for something, I kept it. Now for the other side....can the Peltier Junction TEG/TEC be connected in series or parallel, depending upon needs? Is the voltage a product of surface area, (more=more better)?
I'd guess two or more could be used and wired in series/parallel for higher voltage/current. It's not something I've tried.
I suppose the issue with serial connections might be a voltage differential between one and the other, similar to tungsten lamps in serial on a DC circuit so they become progressively less effective at cooling. Or if used to generate power then you could end up with one of the strips supplying power to the other and thus driving it.
Parallel would seem to be best in either case. In my understanding anyhow.
Edward Clayton
You probably meant to say that current would be a product of surface area.
This video uses the differential between the Alzheimer's side and the Peltier Junction side to create positive energy 🙂
@@Conservator. Yes, that is exactly what I meant to say.
Had one of the tall ones fail on me last year. It was the first one I had, and it ran for 8 years without issue. Bought another one two years ago and noticed how long the original one took to begin to spin, and how slow the maximum speed was compared to the new one, so I decided to tear it down. I removed all the graphite from the Peltier and cleaned it up with rubbing alcohol. Tore down the actual motor, (Which are very simple to open and repair) and cleaned up the commutator, (which was discoloured with use and age) with some 0000 steel wool. Ran a fine blade between the gaps of the split ring contacts to clear up a few shorts that had developed. A few drops of high heat oil on the bearings when reassembled and the motor was as good as new. Some high heat silver sink paste on the peltier upon assembly and the original fan then started faster than the new one and seemed to have a higher maximum speed too. Quite happy with these fans and their longevity.
Now let's see you convert one to run off a kerosene lamp for use while camping.
Kerosene powered Stirling engine fans were popular in India and other countries before the days of electricity. I've wanted an old original one for decades but they are not easy to find here in the United States.
Well, if it were gonna run off a kerosene lamp, then what would it run _on?_
@@HelloKittyFanMan. They are kind of like a wife as they run ON heat and when they don't get enough heat they run OFF. Mostly they just run off as originally stated.
@@tenlittleindians: Haha, yeah, huh? And some of them work "out of home," and some homeless people live "out of their car," and some alarms "go off" when they sound, and this site is headquartered "out of California," huh?
(And what are some more of those dumb ones?)
That story about your mother made my whole future bearable. I love you for that Clive.
I've been making notes for an Alzheimer's video to try and cover the basics in a short video. It's intriguing the way people who have it turn into "stone age humans". They become hunters and gatherers of stuff that appeals to them and turn their bedroom into a little cave of their hoard.
@@bigclivedotcom I look forward to seeing it. That is a fascinating observation.
You are among the few who have made RUclips amazing. Thanks Clive.
Could you modify one of these with a higher end CPU cooler instead of the big chunk of extruded aluminum? I wonder if it would allow it to start up at a lower temperature and provide more airflow for a given temp.
I've seen a couple on youtube - the one by Brian Ealy is especially notable for the magnificent beardage on screen.
I'd guess a heatpipe would move the heat more efficiently and reduce the chance of the sort of slow start overheating clive's had in these units - but it's probably easy to underestimate the clever thermal design that's gone in to the shop bought ones too
People used to use them as CPU coolers. The problem being if you accidentally cool the CPU below ambient air temperature then you in essence create a dehumidifier (and also lots of water and condensation inside the chasis). You could use monitoring equipment but should it fail or be unable to tell the difference between room temperature and chasis temperature you could still end up with a fair amount of moisture which is never good with circuitry. It takes watercooling to a new level!
The safest and least complicated method is air circulation. Just standard fan and radiator. The chasis and CPU would always be warmer than the temperature of the room so never suffer from water issues. So if you were to use a Peltier to keep the system above ambient temperature anyway, it seems a waste of technology and money, simply introducing a further unnecessary opportunity to fail.
I suppose you could, but you'd have condensation issues if you went below dew point. You're also strapping a device that needs a heatsink to replace a heatsink so not much value.
@@paulgascoigne5343 Not what I meant. I was talking about using a CPU cooler to make the stove fan work better. Not using a peltier to cool a CPU.
@@3ountyhunter Not what I meant. I was talking about using a CPU cooler to make the stove fan work better. Not using a peltier to cool a CPU.
That was the happiest I think I have ever heard Clive
Teflon wire will work
Will silicone fuel tubing from nitro rc cars prevent it because it woupd be easy to cover the wires with that.
I feel like this would be a perfect application for a stirling engine!
Our fridge freezer uses about 80W but probably around 15% duty cycle from the graphs (yes I have graphs). However, our kitchen is about 15C typically.
That fan noise sounds like someone spinning a ferret around by the tail. Um, not that I've, um, actually done that or anything...
The acrobatic little bastards would almost certainly bite you if you did...👹
Back in the early '80s, my oldest brother was holding our cat by its front paws and swung it toward the ceiling. The cat shot a turd up at the ceiling leaving a brown mark up there that lasted until it was painted a few years later. That cat usually pooped in the kitchen garbage disposal every time he was given a bath...
Robert Gaines 0_0
@@robertgaines-tulsa too bad the cat didn't shit in his face. that would have been instant Karma at its best!
My oldest brother was always kind of weird. There was a phase when I was like 4 to 6 years old when he would slap my butt when I passed his bedroom door. It hurt like hell! I really only found out recently that our father molested him and tortured him with a belt every time he had a bad day at work. This was mostly or entirely before I was born. My mother kept me largely insulated from it. I think. She had no idea our father was doing that, and she didn't approve of the use of a belt for spanking us.
I've always been fascinated by those fans. They don't blow cold air because it's the heat that makes them go. Also the fan cools the top and makes a bigger heat differential which makes the fan go faster which makes a bigger heat differential, etc.
Diapers? Dollars? Is this the Big Clive US version?
It's an American world I'm afraid. The rest of us just live in it.
And he likes zeeener diodes too!
Big Clint? :D
@@bens1343 I'm an American, and you have my sympathy.
Ditto, and with the orange moron in the whitehouse, I want to apologize to the world.
Interesting, I have an identical single blade version, and recently replaced the motor after it failed. The original motor must have clocked up around 5000 hours. Sometimes I give the blade a little push to help it start up. Hopefully I will get another 6 years of service from the new £3 motor. I love your channel btw.
"Right. Let's take this to bits." The only intro needed to pique my interest.
I like the way You face the world, with a laugh and retrospection. Great.
I have one of the little ones, they have a max temperature limit.. so maybe they left it running above that
My uncle has one of these from the 80s the wiring is bare and passes through ceramic tubes where it needs to like knob and tube wiring. The whole motor is exposed and the shaft rides in brass bushings. I bought the most spendy one on the shelf at the store when I got mine, it's made of copper and the wiring seems to have silicone insulation.
Does the 80s one still work?
It wouldn't surprise me.
@@mickeythompson9537 Oh yea it's been sitting on that stove since I can ever remember. Only time it gets moved is to clean the stove
Sorry I don't understand the porpoise of this machine? Is it a stove powered space heater fan?
Porpoise?! Stupid speel chequer.
Simon A yeah I don’t really understand what it’s for either...
They're used to blow the heat from a stove into a room rather than letting it go up to the ceiling. They're neat because they use the heat from the stove to drive the fans. Often used on wood burning stoves.
@@RobertShippey It spreads the heat of the stove more effectively.
My worm processor can't smell either.
Used a lot on narrowboats in the UK, keeps the air slowly moving around and helps prevent the cold feet hot head symptoms of being in a part submerged steel tube and helps take the chill off the rest of the boat given time. Being off grid it saves having to power another device from the 12v or 240v systems
I use these (or similar) and they work great on top of our stove. Had them for around 5 or 6 years now
Think I just peed a little
Oh, man! Let it all go. It ain't good to hold it.
Your story made me laugh. My partner’s grandma has lived with us for 5 years now. She’s 95 and has Alzheimer’s which has slowly gotten worse over the years.
Taking care of her, especially with the incontinence issues, has been challenging lol. But we love her and you just have to laugh or you’ll go crazy.
It's almost like having a pet human. Very strange.
bigclivedotcom I’ve never thought of grandma like that before but you’re kind of right
Lol period furniture 🤣🤣
I don't have the first clue when it comes to electrical/electronic items, but since I've found your channel I cannot stop watching your videos
I definitely agree on the fridge aspect, I had a peltier cooled mini fridge for a while, at most it'd take 6x 330ml cans, not that great in the summer, and would make a god awful racket with its' original fan (I later replaced it and made a video of the upgrade), then later I rescued a Bosch fridge from being scrapped, swapped it with the uncle's smaller Husky brand fridge, and now I have a nice, quiet, roomy (in comparison!), compressor-driven fridge instead... :)
I always thought they were cool, but what is the point, if your oven is too hot, turn it down or open a window, not everybody has an arger they have to keep on all the time for heat 🤣
Maybe its for air circulation?
People who have a wood burning fire use them to move the heated air around a room. They are widely used on Narrowboats.
Never put yer lager on yer Aga.
@@martinda7446 I put a potato in there and forgot about it. Found it in the back after about a week. I had made coal!
@@ollieb9875 That is how coal is made? I will be sticking a bag in tonight. I may try a carrot, for pointy coal.
Hi Clive ace video ,just purchased a log burner ( or wood burner dont think i will be depositing a log in it, mother storey ) and a fan and very intrested how they work ,now I know .Ace mate keep it up .
I had to give a like and a comment for the stove story alone good to see you found the funny side to a difficult situation
ahhhh Clive we non technicals ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR VIDEO'S...a massive LIKE from south east London LALALA to you,Ralfy and your pals there in the Irish Sea 👜👜⚡👍👍👍!!
Those Peltier devices are used in portable cooler/heater units here, especially for trucks and such. I had one for a few years, Actually worked pretty well but it liked it's power....
The Stirling Engine based ones are far better at actually moving air - however I resorted to a mains fan in the ens - as neither really circulated enough! Love it if you could do a stirling engine tear-down and power analysis!
There are units designed for heating and cooling and there are units designed for power generation that use different metals and are able to handle much more temperature differential without delaminating. There is a high temperature unit in the BioLite stove. A stove that generates usb power from the heat of a small fan forced wood/biomass stove.
Once again a great video interesting and informative.
This is one of the last channels I would think not to eat while watching. Goddamn you, Clive and your stories.
Also, I *do* have headphones on. I'm getting reddit.com/r/fuckyouinparticular vibes.
Hey Clive :)
you reminded me that years back, I watched our Antiques Roadshow here in the states. and they had an antique / low tech version of these. it was a fan that had a kerosene [ parifin ] burner built into the base, and the heat from the burner would go up the stand and use heat conduction to turn an impeller of sorts, which would drive the fan blade.
i have the "traditional" version of that on my stove right now, spinning away as i write this :) it really does as advertised, circulating the air in my living room
These are neat, I've never seen them before. Now I want to make little heatsink stacks like this
I wonder why no heatsink or CPU manufacturers don't use Peltier plates, In my mind the cool side on the CPU and the warm side facing up connected to a heatsink would surely make it run much cooler overall than just a heatsink and fan.
Money.
we use peltier panels in our biochemistry instruments to keep samples cool.runs at about 12 volts and 1 amp for about a 2 inch square sample area
PCR machines?
@@nerd1000ify PCR certainly, but also popular on microscope cold stages . For bulk cooling many labs use those "desktop refrigerated plates", also seen in bars - where cans, etc can be kept cool without being in a fridge.
@@nerd1000ify not that i know of
My dad has one of these fans on top of his wood burner. It got me thinking back to those electric bar fires, with the moulded fibreglass coal effect and spinners suspended on pins over white, orange or red bulbs. The convection caused the spin and I used to wonder if this method on a bigger scale, could be used as a generator to power lights or whatever?
I'd recommend getting some of that sleeving that protects wiring from heat. I think it's made of fiberglass, and I usually see it covering piezo igniter wires.
Mother taking a dump :) warm ;) story, and surprising... And, I have a couple of somewhat big stove fans that have done a perfect job for many years. It is important to place them on the right spot of the stove, with not so much heat "behind" it. I usually wait till the stove surface is hot before I place them, always on the same, optimal, spot.
0:29... It is a Peltier Cell comprised of PN junctions running in the Seebeck effect to produce voltage/current for the low voltage motor.
6:58... Those type Peltier cells are called TEGs (Thermo Electric Generators) and are specifically designed to produce voltage/current. The white ceramic ones on eBay are standard TECs.
10:39... I would use silicone insulated wire for the high temperatures on top of a wood burning stove.
My Grandfather had alzheimer's as well. Near the end he was hospitalized for about three months. My grandfather served in WW2 and he was a pretty cool tempered guy for the most part, but during those last few months, I really felt sorry for the nurses that had to take care of him. He was a real handful.