They did the same thing with the Fallout Wikis when the show premiered and broke/changed a bunch of canon. I'd be sweatin' bullets as a fandom Wiki editor with the pedigree of writers we're seeing today.
Serves you right for watching John Campea.. I put him in the same category of star wars youtubers as Mike Zero and Warstu. All 3 are masters of clickbait bullshit.
The most horrendous part of this show is she keeps saying Jedi won't attack with a lightsaber against an unarmed opponent, which has never been true, and because they're writing the Jedi this way, it makes them look arrogant and stupid. Jedi will use whatever force is necessary to restore peace quickly and with minimal casualties. They don't just stand around and watch civilians get beaten to hell. The power of one error. The power of two errors. The power of maaaaannnyy errors.
Yeah not to mention unarmed doesn't mean not dangerous. The force is a thing like Palps lightning hands and you can still beat someone to death with your appendages or cause severe harm with em. People need to really tell the difference
That’s because there is no story or foundation they were following. Let me explain.. Notice how when you talk to the actresses they always say I, I, I? But back in the days like when they interviewed Natalie Portman, she would always say she, she, she. She was referring to her character in a story. So she was divorcing herself from that character. That’s how actors and actresses used to talk. They was say he or she and never I. But today these actors and actresses say I. They come first then their characters. There is no character really. It’s built around their real identity. I grabbed the light saber, I jumped off the hill. I, I, I. that’s because they are literally hired for their identities in real life and not a character in a story. Sure they try to tell a story with character building. But they are mainly focused on building that character around the real life actress instead of building the actress around a character.
It reminds me of that thing a lot of really far left people do in political arguments. Where they go "it's not happening, but if it was it would be based. But its not :)." Like we can see that you're turning into a snake before our eyes but anyone that notices gets thrown in a pit. In this case they know they can't control the narrative anymore and are resorting to these cheap rhetorical tactics.
Timestamps 0:00 The Plumber 1:42 Dr Who? 32:47 Simpsons & Voice Acting 37:40 Pronunciation 38:25 Preamble 39:11 Interest Level 44:53 Pitching The Mistery 51:55 Revenge Plan 54:58 Plot Progression 57:16 Premise, Writing & Canon 1:02:04 What is the Force? 1:06:00 Conversations & interactions 1:07:18 Romance 1:10:05 Themes & Language 1:12:30 The Characters 1:16:20 Responding to Hate 1:19:00 Knowledge & Cameos 1:23:58 Excitement, delusion & hater 1:25:57 Next Season 1:27:47 Flip 1:32:34 How Will It End 1:35:08 Incompetent Writing 1:37:24 Predictions 1:42:20 The Writing Environment 1:50:43 Criticism & Responsabilities 1:57:17 Interviews: Prologue 1:58:15 Interviews: The Now 2:06:38 Interviews: The Then 2:11:27 The Battle of IQs 2:19:10 Controversies: From Capitalization to Videogames 2:26:52 B-Movies 2:29:16 Campea & The Ki Ai Mundi Controversy 3:00:25 Sponsor, Clipping & Tips 3:04:32 What Is Canon? 3:28:10 It's Alive? 3:55:10 The Sith 4:21:57 Shameless Plug & Seriousness 4:24:00 Complaining 4:27:40 Canonclusion 4:32:54 Where is It? 4:34:12 Closing
The only good thing about the Doctor Who finale are the memes: Primarily "Well we'd all like a lot of things that aren't going to happen.", "Do you dream about being an ambulance?" and the idea of how Sutekh reacts to random episodes... other than that, Empire of Death was the first time a Doctor Who episode made me want to go to sleep. It would have been funnier if the Season 13 villain that latched onto the TARDIS was Mr Chase from Seeds of Doom.
it really comes off as a classic concern troll. Considering that he just kept repeating "this episode is bad" without providing any substantive criticism, meanwhile dedicated what felt like a billion years to screeching about it being "A cD rOm!!!!1!!!!!1!1!1" ... just feels like he's trying to play both sides at best.
@@Phoenix0F8 I think they nailed it on the head at the end of the vid with the idea that he's in a weird corner with his audience. He cannot even pretend to like the show, so he admits it's bad, but he's still access media, so he has to put double the effort to not look like THOSE people who usually don't like Disney Star Wars crap.
But his arguments are like totally fantastic. Yes indeed, it's not stated in the movies how old the character is or how long his species lives for. Only in that lesser, not true, expanded non-canon that only dirty, smelly nerds bother to look at. So, on that basis, I'd like to see Obi-Wan Kenobi show up in the Acolyte. Because, after all, it's never been stated in the movies how old Kenobi actually is or how his life cycle works. We don't even know what species he is, really. Could be a Timelord for all we know. If it's never stated in the movies, it ain't G-Canon, and therefore, there should be zero reluctance to see it happen, and it wouldn't feel wild, and weird, and careless, and stupid, and.... Look, he can totally show up in the Acolyte and, because that would make it T-Canon, that means all the books, official material, games, C-D-ROMS! and animated stuff that actually go into Kenobi's past...? Yeah, they don't matter now, regardless of how much people spent making them or fans spent their money on them, no matter how well regarded, well though out, popular, or widely accepted they are within the fandom. You have no case, nerds. You will like the new T-Canon. Because this is totally how you curate a massive, sprawling genre universe that's not only super-popular, but riddled with proper nerds. Nerds who like details. So yeah, plop baby Ewan in there. Thanks for the money, nerds!
Every guy and guy duo must be gay, and every girl and girl duo must be lesbian. The only things you can't show anymore are two dudes/girls who have a simple plantonic relationship. I.e. Kirk and Spock HAVE to be gay now, and any two in a straight heterosexual relationship, well, unless it's diverse.
And his line in TPM about sith (which they immediately assume Maul is one despite no proof) not existing for a millennium. A thousand years, not a century, which is the hundred their basing this story before the Prequels.
Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Oh...I meant a Millennium...Falcon! Yes, no one has seen a Sith in a Millennium Falcon. It was just a misunderstanding. From a certain point of view."
The only thing canon in Disney is the current frame you're viewing. They're THAT incompetent despite promising during the decanonization of the EU that THEIR canon would be carefully curated so that it would ALL ve equally canon
@@MegaDarkness5000 of course not. They don't care. Disney is treating a multibillion dollar cash cow like a lemonade stand with no planning and no effort or respect. Its why they're failing so badly. Laziness, hubris and incompetence. A perfect storm of it. It will go down as the biggest mishandling of a franchise ever and one of the costliest entertainment media mistakes of all time
Yeah, this isnt unique to star wars either, current disney is that incompetent. They literally have the lyric "eloquent dancers" in wish. Their method just doesnt fucking function
There's a rising popularity in the idea that canon doesn't matter and it's extremely frustrating. Why would I wanna watch a continuing story if it doesn't give a shit about what came before?
You mean you don't want to see Firefly's first episode but tune in next episode and get Gilmore girls?! You misogynist bigot 😂😂😂 Ironically with the caliber of writing today that scenario might still end up being a better show than 90% of the schlock being released currently.
Some people only ever cared about canon because it was backed by the media's talking heads in our small circle. This is fine, we grew up and understood that storytelling requires consistent... Well, storytelling. Now that this is a megapopular thing, kids grow up with the view that canon is secondary to whatever the big company says, and they lose some of their barely-existing levels of critical thinking.
It's actually cool when stories have meaningful overlaps. It's not talked about much, but the first time Coruscant existed was in Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire." No other third party materials It was then adopted by George as what Zahn made it-the capitol of the Galaxy, formerly of the Old Republic, then the Empire, then the New Republic. For all that George decided he wasn't beholden to something written by people other than himself, he could still adopt things from other sources. And for all of George's shitting on the EU, that little nod was still kind of cool. It was Disney that decanonized Coruscant as the capitol of the New Republic, not Lucas.
I think it comes from the idea that art not only doesn't need rules or restrictions, it just shouldn't have them. Canon is just such a restriction. Why should I, an auteur story teller, be beholden to the works of others in telling my truth? So what if I'm using their ideas and banking on the goodwill and loyalty of the audience they worked to build? So what if character decisions are inconsistent or if outcomes lack cause and effect or are contradictory to the logic of the narrative as long as there's an emotional pay off? This goes back as far as Patrick Willems saying that Canto Bight wasn't a waste of time because if it hadn't happened then Finn wouldn't have learned a childishly simplistic lesson and we wouldn't have seen his moment with Rose.
When I first heard Ki-adi was in the episode I assumed it was just for the meme that he'd be in the wookie episode and with good relationships with wookies. But then the episode happened and the wookie didn't get a word of dialogue and died off screen on a relaxing forest retreat that has no people or resorts anywhere.
Mundi- "I've done it master. I deleted all records that any of this happened. They'll be none the wiser for a hundred years or so." Jar Jar- "Yousa did good meesa apprentice, wesa make big bombad doodoo now! The Jedi must no no suspect us, so keepsa secret okey dey?"
@@hoonterofhoonters6588 god Jar Jar was 1999. We really took the Balrog and said, "That's as good as it gets, @#$& it, ps3 graphics are the bar now forever."
I can't stand this slippery definition of canon these people always abide to to excuse Disney's mistakes and mold around until it fits them, then they abandon it right after.. "Canon doesn't matter. But also, it was never canon because it was LESSER canon. BUT ALSO. Lesser canon is still canon, but that canon was decanonized and also just on a CD-Rom that wasn't even canon anyway." And all of that is right next to other nonsense like "its for children, why do you care" etc.
cannon matters because how an IP's owners treat it tells you everything you need to know about whether or not it's worth your time. If they don't give a crap, neither should you.
2:10. It's as simple as this is an actress who has not spent a second thinking about who this character is, what she wants, where she's come from, outside of the text on the page she's reading from. This cast hasn't been encouraged to think beyond the superficial, develop any internal life or history, because the CREATORS clearly haven't done so, just writing down whatever they need to happen on any given page, at any given moment, to make the plot go where they want it to, without any regard for who these characters they've written are supposed to be. The actors are shallow and lost because the creators are shallow.
@@MegaSpideyman basically every time they affirmed Disneys abortion as good or not that bad because of worthless superficial reasons and/or lack of basic critical approach to consuming art
@@MegaSpideyman Basically the cover story this entire time has been along the lines of them not taking away our toys, they're not going to destroy star wars, they're just expanding it for a broader audience. It's still star wars. So that was a fucking lie.
The side by side comparison between the two actresses is so baffling. One can actually speak in well crafted sentences, the other plainly cannot. I'm already drawn away from anything the latter one could say because the presentation is just way worse...
This show sucks I think we can all agree. But trying to compare an actor talking about her character that has like 10 minutes of screen time vs an actor talking about a major character in a show is not a fair comparison. I guarantee she knows her character sucks which is why she can't form any coherent sentences about it but it's her job to promote it regardless. Those clips should be a condemnation on the writing and directing of the show, not the actor. I feel a little bad for her to be honest, having to defend and promote a really shit role in a shit show.
@@prolix3557 that's true, of course there is a difference to be made between those characters and their impact (thus far at least) in their respective shows
Canon had never mattered to Disney, Mundi being alive when he shouldn’t be is just plain incompetence and you can thank Dave’s ass for that. Ryan’s victory laps about the guy are well earned.
Dave Failoni: I'm going to use Eeth Koth in my Clone Wars series. Leland Chee: Dave Eeth Koth died in Attack of the Clones. You can't use him. Dave Failoni: I don't care.
I remember my first interaction with him around 2011, where I was commenting on one of his written TCW reviews that he was factually wrong on one point, and he basically just told me to fuck off 😂
Look at this from the Cerean (Mundi's species) wookiepedia page. "At least one member of the species had a long lifespan; Ki-Adi-Mundi was active as a Jedi Knight roughly a century before serving on the High Council." They're coping so fucking hard. If you go to the Legacy page of the Cereans, there's a good bit more information on them, and in the sidebar is THIS. Child: 1-10 years Young adult: 11-15 years Adult: 16-35 years Middle age: 36-53 years Old: 54-64 years Venerable: 65+ years
"They never said the word Sith" Sure... but the Sith are the literal mortal enemy of the Jedi... so any Jedi worth their salt would immediately want to PROVE it WASN'T a Sith! Period.
The reason he says the Sith have been extinct for a millenia, is because the FUCKING Jedi genocided those fuckers because... bum bum bahhhhhh They were darkside users.
Also, Mae quotes part of the Sith Code in Ep 2, the exchange during the poison mixing, where he goes "and peace" followed by Mae "is a lie, I know." So by all indications Mae knows the Sith code and there is really only one place she could have learned that from. And sure the Jedi dont know about that exchange, but it should torpedo any argument that Smilo Ren might just be a random Dark Side user.
The whole concept of there being a manichean pair of factions of Jedi and Sith is very, very retarded and babyish. As soon as they started trying to explain it (the OT wisely didn't mention any of it) the retardedness is fully exposed.
It's untrue. He knows English. This is his first English speaking role, but he went to university and learned some English there. He had to get more fluent in order to take on this role, but he's spoken English before. You can find clips of him speaking to fans of Squid Game in English. He's not doing what MauLer said and just reciting sounds.
I understand that getting one Jedi’s canonical birth date wrong is a tiny detail in the grand scheme of things. But it’s a symptom of a much bigger, underlying issue: that Disney doesn’t give a shit about what they’ve got and they’re careless. All these tiny details add up to one big miserable end product for the audience.
They just wanted a Sith in their Acolyte show so they purposefully pulled in a character from the prequels so they can do some smoke and mirrors wand-waving over the ”no Sith in a millennium" line. They will 100% twist established canon however they want.
John Campea : Even when he hates something he can't help but shill. He's also deliberately missing the point, which is why his argument makes no sense and he seems to know it by the end He's technically correct, Disney own Star Wars, Disney can change what's 'official cannon' for whatever reason. Disney doesn't even have to pay attention to it's own cannon.... but that's not why people are pissed about this The problem is that as soon as the company admits they don't actually give a flying fuck, which is what Disney essentially did with the clumsy after-the-fact retcon, is that why should anybody bother getting invested in an IP who's established lore means nothing to it's own creators? Why spend the time and energy learning about this universe when it can all change on a dime just because the next show decides it needs things to be different? Star Wars survived as long as it did because of the lore, because there was so much for the 'nerds' to spend their time and energy learning about and discussing with other nerds. That's what turns people from casual viewers into actual fans... Disney's made it quite clear that's kind of pointless now And for what, exactly? an Easter Egg? Some cheap memberberries to try and trick the old fans to come back? Just to immediately attack those same fans for actually giving a fuck about this IP? Seriously, what the fuck Disney, is anybody over there capable of thinking these things through? You had other options to get the same effect, but you had to go and hire writers too lazy to look for them, now you think shifting the blame to the fans is gonna net you more viewers? how, exactly, is this supposed to end well? There's so much more going on here than just them changing cannon. The 'why' of all this really screams how utterly dysfunctional Lucasfilm has become, and THAT is why this is a big deal to Star Wars fans.
I hate what smooth brains like Round Head have done to the concept of subversive story telling. I quite enjoy it myself and always loved it growing up; such as the people with the big spiky teeth, horns, and red eyes being kind and caring gentle giants. Yet the point of subversive story telling is to give you a payoff you didn't expect yet was present in the work the whole time. Meanwhile the Round Head school of SuBvErSiOn is just "lol, there is no payoff."
I still love the Hot Fuzz Subversion. It's not what you think it was going to be *but* it still makes entirely consistent sense with all the events you've seen so far.
I’d actually add that there is usually a payoff if this shitty writing it’s just that it’s the payoff no one wanted or liked so that obviously means it’s good.
I love the ki adi mundi reference just shows that they are aware of what they’re doing which they probably think is genius but everyone else is like that makes it so much worse. Like they actually had the knowledge of how this fucked with canon and instead of being like “whoa let’s go back another few hundred years” they decided to change reality in the universe. And now they are actually retroactively ruining the other movies in the most blatant manner possible which just comes off as a toddler throwing a fit and breaking everyone else’s sandcastles because theirs fell apart.
And typically, Disney advertises or teases their cameos. They knew this was controversial so they intentionally didn't promote this one. They knew what they were doing.
Canon needs to make sense again: The Ki Adi Mundi of the Acolyte can't be the same as in Ep. 1 - it's Ki Adi Mundi (Acolyte, great grandfather) Al Mundi (grandfather) King Kong Mundi (father) Ki Adi Mundi (Ep. 1, named after gr. grandfather) Canon repaired - and all it took was ALL the copium 😂
I agree and I'll add that it's so much more satisfying when someone can write a clever story that ties in with the canon. It is amateurish to disregard canon so that you can write lazy stories.
I will never stop finding Disneys 'Writers' inability to stick to canon hilarious. There is no reason for it, at best it's key jangling, but they never even bother making a rudimentary google regarding their millions of dollars work. Sheer lack of professionalism, and pride in your work despite the apparent love of 'Pride'.
@@canaldecasta i mean, i can easily understand people enjoying bad movies. I myself can get much enjoyment out of terrible films for reasons the creators really wish i didn't. What i will not tolerate is people using that as an argument for whether the movie's good or not....
The way corporate talent treats canon makes perfect sense once you acknowledge that on some level, they consider you stupid for caring. They think it's stupid that art they've been behind the scenes of the production of, which in their mind is just a product, is capable of creating entire cultures of unique discussion and branching media, because they do just see the in-story reality as the ham sandwich inside of a plastic take-out box at a gas station. It's just the necessary meat for selling a product, the majority of them do not see it with more sacredness than that. So when it comes to scoring easy social victory points by making a point in favor of their fellow professionals and on some level, ideological allies, the majority of them don't even think about you, the fan, at any time in any way beyond the abstract of a teen or grown adult who got feelings for a product they envision solely on a spreadsheet. With guys like Campea, it's a little more complicated, because they do care in some way - just not nearly enough about the fan to turn down that guaranteed approval from their peers. It's moral weakness, which almost every single political group in America has devolved from understanding how to care about anymore, and that goes quadruple-triple for people in entertainment, because very few of the ones who throw their hat into the ring of public discussion see the art you love as anything but a lucky scratch-off that landed them a life of comfort for playing pretend in an air-conditioned stage - and becoming famous for it! The actors who are good people don't tend to have such decrepit personal lives that they need to go onto Twitter to assert an illusion of social dominance over strangers, they're just doing coke and having sex, much more respectable. My take is very cynical, you'll find true believers here and there, but most of these people are borderline reptilian thinkers who really just think you're a sucker who lives to subsidize their lifestyle, and eventually many of them really do stop asking if they deserve it, and start blaming you for not guaranteeing them a Barbie Dreamhouse future. At some point, some of their mindsets really come down to, "Like dude, you're like, probably not even a perfect totem pole of corporate-supported identity types, so like why are you talking to me????? I already have more points????????? " That's why channels like EFAP are so important; the consumers have very few beacons of earnest passion to rally around to gain social leverage over literal trust-fund millionaires who have the resources to control social opinion. The podcast isn't just practical, it gets people talking, and gives more sentimental mindsets towards art a place where they can still discuss art without being explicitly positive. I really do mean it when I'm say that I'm proud of the EFAP boys and how far they've come, because it's not just movie discussion anymore, it's dissemination of a very healthy philosophy towards consumer art that gives all of us an excellent in to bully rich kids. If you're not bullying rich kids, mate, you're just not having fun. Elon Musk's Neuralink killed like six monkeys, you get to flame him about that literally forever no matter what he does in the future, and it's comforting to know that we can all bond by making fun of stuff like that. Amandla Stenberg mumble-rapped a diss track that forgot to rhyme and forgot to be a rap, it rules how fun it is to make fun of that. John Campea mentally disengages from the concept of cause-and-effect when he tries to defend Disneywood, that's genuinely fucking hilarious.
but, counterpoint: have you considered that it was a [imagine the next words in Campea's autistic screeching voice:] cD rOm!!!!!!!!!!!!! A CD ROM!!!!!!! THAT INVALIDATES EVERYTHING! IT WAS ON A CD ROM MOTHERFUCKERS! A CD ROM!!! STOP CRYING AND SCREAMING! IT WAS A CD ROM!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
So much world building from the line "the Sith have been extinct for over a millennia". I don't think people are talking enough about how much it informs the audience.
"Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Osha and Mae Anesaya? You have? Oh yes of course you have, it's a very common story that everyone at this period of time has heard, how silly of me for bringing it up."
Oh I was always saying "Mae The Force be with you" back prior to 1977 even before the first movie came out, because I'm not a racist or a sexist or a homophobe, no Sir/Madam/They/Them.
I love when MauLer gets "mad" at Rags because it reminds me of that one comment or tweet or whatever it was long ago, that "called out" the efap crew of being too afraid to disagree with Rags.
@@jacobcolle3746 They've gotten far less patient with him as time has gone on. After Wolf left there was a very long time where no one would disagree with Rags. Even now whenever one of the guests disagrees with him he becomes a snarky child who disrupts the stream so he can be rude and condescending for a minute. At this point it's just not worth it for a guest to disagree with the stupid stuff he says.
Fans love timelines. I've seen fans piece together every significant detail from the MCU to Pirates or the Caribbean, and there's a great satisfaction in seeing how backstories or trivial throwaway lines help establish a character's journey from X to Y. Changing that timeline for a character might be forgiven if the payoff is worth it, but this just feels like Disney hamfisting another well-liked character (as you all said, it could have been an OC Jedi and changed nothing) to play defense for a bad product.
This is from wookiepedia also "Sith Acolyte was a rank within the Sith Order prior to Darth Bane's reformation. The term was used to refer to Force-sensitive apprentices who had only just started on the dark path under the tutelage of a more experienced Sith Lord to rightfully bear the mantle of Sith." So john campea can shut up lol
I feel like the Ki Adi Mundi age thing wouldn't be that big of a problem if Disney didn't constantly trample and spit on canon. They have destroyed any good will for flexibility with canon.
I think if he was used as strictly key-jangling, rather than having a role in the investigation of antagonistic Force users, there'd be much less outrage. I still don't know why he's there - why do we need to have characters we know on screen. Have this story be set in a region with an ambitious Jedi not willing to report failure to The Council, so they want to handle this internally with a handful of Jedi. You save on the cost of establish characters and can focus on the story you want to tell, regardless of quality. The audience can be smart enough to not need Member Berries.
It looks like this got reuploaded, so sorry for repeating myself but... I want to clarify something that often gets blown out of proportion. Lee Jung-Jae, the guy playing Sol, definitely had a working knowledge of English prior to the Acolyte. He took a crash course to brush up on it. He did NOT learn it from 0 and he fully understands what he's saying, well... as much as anyone can in this show.... He grew up in Seoul and graduated form a decent Uni, there is very little chance that he did not learn English in school for several years. I have a strong feeling it was much more akin to a dialect coach as opposed to learning the language from scratch. (read: pronunciation practice) There are posts on his Instagram back in the squid game days where he was thanking people in English... walking around without a script. I doubt he just memorized that.
Can we get this to the top please? He's got difficulties pronouncing the words but there's no way he's just speaking phonetically without understanding the lines at all. Where did this myth come from?
@TheRealJabbergeist it likely came from the fact that Asian actors in the past have done this- Jackie chan was a famous example. It borders on a racist expectation now that any Asian actor to have swapped to western media, MUST just been speaking phonetics. Soul's(how is his name spelt?) English is far too clean for simply phonetic imitation.
@@biferose158 I absolutely agree. For context, I've been living in working in East Asia (Japan, Korea, China) for 15 years in English language education, and it's crazy how so many people imagine Asians have zero knowledge of English. In reality any person in Japan or Korea under the age of 50 that grew up anywhere other than the absolute boonies have likely had a minimum of six years of formal English language education starting from junior high school. I remember when Lost became popular a lot of people talked about how good Yunjin Kim's (the woman who played Sun) English was.... well, she did grow up in New York (moved there when she was 10). But people just assume that Asians cannot speak English.
There’s this funny thing these movies and shows keep doing where they make themselves very transparent and upfront political propaganda, and when they’re criticized on the basis of the politics and social issues *they brought up* , the people involved with creating them cry foul, then the fans of the content start gaslighting and claiming the upfront political propaganda isn’t real to try and dismiss the critics They want to have their cake and eat it, too. You simultaneously need to believe that the politics being presented are objectively correct to enjoy these stories and to dismiss any/all criticisms of the politics as being irrelevant to the quality of the content. It’s really just an evolved form of those kids at recess who’d refuse to play by the rules of the other kids because they wanted to have all the powers and none of the weaknesses, which made it fun for themselves, but shitty for everyone else. The fact these are all grown adults is what makes this more embarrassing than anything
I also recommend Attack the Block it stars John Boyega and the female doctor where they live in a apartment complex that get invaded by some pretty original aliens
3:36:44 MauLer, they actually do that. Most important articles have two tabs: one for Legends, and one for Canon. Unsurprisingly, the Legends articles are much more fleshed out.
Considering what he said about being able to do what he wants now, and being limited by suits in the past, Russel T Davis might be the example of a case of management actually saving a movie/series from creatives...
Happens more than you'd think. Constraints are good for creativety, it's why talented people create internal consistency even when under no ones watch.
Yeah, but remember Stuckman madame web narrative? How everything bad is management's fault somehow? That's something I hear a lot, and this is the first time I can actually point to a creative lamenting management's interference for what is likely his best work ever 😅
The Doctor Who discussion is shocking. Its like theres been a mass infestation of brain eating parasites but we just dont talk about it and the infected get to keep their jobs.
Honestly, hearing Mon Mothma's actor talk about Andor is the most star wars has made me feel since Andor originally released. She's giving her own genuine insight and she displays that passion so elegantly.
I love how people who love the Acolyte where all excited " ooh the high Republic, we've never seen that in live action before" There's nothing in this show that tells me it's the high Republic era other than the opening text. The Jedi dress the same, the ships are similar, the three villages we've seen look the same. The Jedi council building barely looks any different.
The most hilarious thing is that during the entire build-up to the show, Mundi was a massive question... come to find out, he's in the fucking show 40 years before he was born, and they didn't bother to advise their brothers in arms at WOKE-iepedia!! It's like steering an airplane into an iceberg... in the desert.
It's funny because Disney is usually so gassed to advertise their cameos, but they hid this one. They knew this was controversial so they threw it in the background and kept him as a very minor piece of the story.
Disney Fans on the trashing of the EU: This is a good thing! Now they can tell their story without contradicting what came before! Disney Fans on now: Contradictions don't matter! It's low-tier canon!
@@brianjohnson9890 It's Rags' humour style, ridicule of the easiest target. I've followed Rags for over ten years and there's almost always one person in some old Sargon livestreams, where he'd peck and peck at someone to ridicule them for his own amusement, nitpicking every little thing his "mark' would say, to try and generate a cheap laugh. I don't care for it, personally, it's too mean spirited but I also don't care, it's just how he's always been. If those he pecks at don't care, neither do I. I'm not one of those who'll get offended on another's behalf.
Watch how in the end Osha becomes a Sith, and Mae becomes a Jedi. Therefore, Osha The Jedi is killed and becomes Osha The Sith, then she is saved by Mae "Telling her she loves her."
John Campea is not trying to convince us fans that we are wrong. He is trying to prevent his audience of Disney Wars fans from agreeing with us, because once they realise we aren't lying about this, they might start to wonder about what else we weren't lying about.
I had an argument with someone about Fallout show. I pointed out all the plot holes amd such and he said i quote "its not a plot hole just because they haven't explained this thing yet. Just wait for the next season and they'll expalain all the contradictions and plot holes. And beside all those are jst nitpicks."
53:20 Oh that remind me of Pluto, it's an excellent manga, recently got adapted in anime, it's actually a spin-off of Astroboy and follows a regular middle aged robot working for europol investigating the murder of several of the strongest robots in existence, so you can see the parallels there.
Who was it that said, "I can't be beholden to what someone else wrote 20 years ago!" That pisses me off because it's so untrue. You clearly are beholden to it if you want to make a sequel. There's a reason they're not having characters talk about how Luke Skywalker grew up on Corellia where he was trained by legendary Jedi Master Jar-Jar Binks before he joined the Old Republic on a mission to blow up the dastardly superweapon, Rogue One. If you're fitting in the Star Wars universe, you're beholden to an understanding of that story or else the audience is no longer immersed.
Why not just use Yoda instead of cone head? Yoda says "cover up we must" it dicks down Yoda's character but they don't care anyway plus when the "there hasn't been a sith since" line occurs in the prequels, Yoda we would now understand has hidden the presence of a Sith for 100 years as he stays silent
The writer of the episode said they originally wanted Yoda in that role but he wasn't technically available so they used Mundi. I think the writers of The Acolyte 100% wanted to reference and pre-manipulate the line from The Phantom Menace made by Mundi in the Jedi Council chamber so that they could have a Sith in their TV show. Having Yoda know about it 100 years beforehand and concealing it would be the 'wiser' move but they basically weren't allowed to use him.
I’m amazed that the investors in Disney don’t demand an audit for shows like this. Every aspect of this show, from CGI to costume to writing to score to fight choreography is worse than HotD S2, despite costing an extra $60million for the same number of episodes (less runtime too). It’s defrauding investors to pay off activists and it’s gross
I can believe that it is almost intentional by Disney Lucasfilm to purposefully have so many inconsistencies to justify remaking the OT and PT to fit with the new canon
We all complain about the streams getting short. But I think we can all agree the 8 minutes that buffered for an hour were insanely cruelty inflicted upon us by the long man.
Goddamit, when Rags noticed harsh ‘S’ sounds I just can’t unhear it. Every digital audio (and even maybe video) editor program has de-essing feature that is designed just for that
The mental-gymnastics Campea pulls just to defend what is obviously a severe lack of oversight and an atrocious handling of an intellectual property, sums up everything I dislike about the guy. I think it's fair to say, if you have to create a 'Canonical spreadsheet' including a tier based system, all in order to justify something that was clearly an oversight by hacks, who almost definitely got their jobs due to their arbitrary characteristics and not their skill with a pen, then you have got to know that you are not only gaslighting your own audience but likely think very little about them. Who is he to decide on what is and isn't legitimate criticism? Current-day Lucasfilm seemingly messes up the canon of their own franchise, how can fans just ignore something so blatant like that? Campea's above it all, you see, he is hOnEsT, unlike all those commoner fans, whom go into things just wanting to hAtE. How does that guy get ANY views? He is so condescending and self-important.
If that CD-Rom was the "official" Insider's Guide for Episode 1, then, doesn't that make it G-Cannon? It still contains George Lucas's movie content in an officially licensed product. The books and games were a lower level because they weren't content from the creator, himself, so if he wanted to, he could supersede the things he wanted to in order to make the movies he wanted. This guy would say that anything in George Lucas's personal notes or journal would be lower level canon than The Acolyte because it was in a BOOK.
I can maybe buy that Disney doesn't want to completely ruin the idea of the Jedi, but I also wouldn't put it past them to make the entire history of the Jedi be incompetent and malicious so Rey can swoop in with the new movie and course correct.
They did the same thing with the Fallout Wikis when the show premiered and broke/changed a bunch of canon. I'd be sweatin' bullets as a fandom Wiki editor with the pedigree of writers we're seeing today.
John Campea: "Stuff from a Fallout CD ROM!?!"
@@sparkypack Literally! 😂
The Ki Adi Mundi thing is a classic example of writers begging questions they shouldn't
no, it's all the CD Roms fault.
@@sparkypack I KNEWWW i had the Bootleg version!!!
SMH my head :(
Begging?
@@MegaSpideyman yeah they're making people ask questions
@@AjayRiverAh, I see.
I remember John Campea saying to me: *“I don't care what George Lucas canon says, Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Sith Lord."* 🤯
Yaaaaaaaas! Yaas!
Him... And Darth Jar Jar.
A master and an apprentice.
The rule of 2 was real all along.
Cleopatra was also black
@@TheLoos3Goos33aaaaahhh stop I can’t sleep I keep hearing it!!!!! Hahahahahahahaha
Serves you right for watching John Campea.. I put him in the same category of star wars youtubers as Mike Zero and Warstu. All 3 are masters of clickbait bullshit.
The most horrendous part of this show is she keeps saying Jedi won't attack with a lightsaber against an unarmed opponent, which has never been true, and because they're writing the Jedi this way, it makes them look arrogant and stupid. Jedi will use whatever force is necessary to restore peace quickly and with minimal casualties. They don't just stand around and watch civilians get beaten to hell.
The power of one error.
The power of two errors.
The power of maaaaannnyy errors.
That absurd Chant will live in infamy, from here on out 🤣👍
Yeah not to mention unarmed doesn't mean not dangerous. The force is a thing like Palps lightning hands and you can still beat someone to death with your appendages or cause severe harm with em. People need to really tell the difference
I dont think that was even a rule in the High Republic books, im pretty sure they made it for the show
@@AlekTrev006imagine having to be part of the crew for that, both inception and execution, and having to keep a straight face during the chant.
That’s because there is no story or foundation they were following. Let me explain.. Notice how when you talk to the actresses they always say I, I, I? But back in the days like when they interviewed Natalie Portman, she would always say she, she, she. She was referring to her character in a story. So she was divorcing herself from that character. That’s how actors and actresses used to talk. They was say he or she and never I. But today these actors and actresses say I. They come first then their characters. There is no character really. It’s built around their real identity. I grabbed the light saber, I jumped off the hill. I, I, I. that’s because they are literally hired for their identities in real life and not a character in a story. Sure they try to tell a story with character building. But they are mainly focused on building that character around the real life actress instead of building the actress around a character.
I love after telling us that we are completely, utterly, factually wrong, Campea's argument boils down to "you are factually correct, but who cares?"
Why's he like this?
It reminds me of that thing a lot of really far left people do in political arguments. Where they go "it's not happening, but if it was it would be based. But its not :)."
Like we can see that you're turning into a snake before our eyes but anyone that notices gets thrown in a pit. In this case they know they can't control the narrative anymore and are resorting to these cheap rhetorical tactics.
@@The1337guy1That's a very good way to illustrate that. I can picture it.
@@MegaSpideyman
The checks and access cleared the way.
@@TheMaleReiWhat a sad thing.
Timestamps
0:00 The Plumber
1:42 Dr Who?
32:47 Simpsons & Voice Acting
37:40 Pronunciation
38:25 Preamble
39:11 Interest Level
44:53 Pitching The Mistery
51:55 Revenge Plan
54:58 Plot Progression
57:16 Premise, Writing & Canon
1:02:04 What is the Force?
1:06:00 Conversations & interactions
1:07:18 Romance
1:10:05 Themes & Language
1:12:30 The Characters
1:16:20 Responding to Hate
1:19:00 Knowledge & Cameos
1:23:58 Excitement, delusion & hater
1:25:57 Next Season
1:27:47 Flip
1:32:34 How Will It End
1:35:08 Incompetent Writing
1:37:24 Predictions
1:42:20 The Writing Environment
1:50:43 Criticism & Responsabilities
1:57:17 Interviews: Prologue
1:58:15 Interviews: The Now
2:06:38 Interviews: The Then
2:11:27 The Battle of IQs
2:19:10 Controversies: From Capitalization to Videogames
2:26:52 B-Movies
2:29:16 Campea & The Ki Ai Mundi Controversy
3:00:25 Sponsor, Clipping & Tips
3:04:32 What Is Canon?
3:28:10 It's Alive?
3:55:10 The Sith
4:21:57 Shameless Plug & Seriousness
4:24:00 Complaining
4:27:40 Canonclusion
4:32:54 Where is It?
4:34:12 Closing
3:32:30 CD Roms disrupting your timestamping progress.
I love the question mark on Dr who, as those its so bad its unrecognisable as doctor who
The only good thing about the Doctor Who finale are the memes: Primarily "Well we'd all like a lot of things that aren't going to happen.", "Do you dream about being an ambulance?" and the idea of how Sutekh reacts to random episodes... other than that, Empire of Death was the first time a Doctor Who episode made me want to go to sleep.
It would have been funnier if the Season 13 villain that latched onto the TARDIS was Mr Chase from Seeds of Doom.
@@spaceman5017 exactly
@@sparkypack Pizza & alcohol are disrupting my timestamping progress.
For someone claiming to not care if you like The Acolyte, John Campea sure cares that you only dislike it for reasons he approves.
it really comes off as a classic concern troll. Considering that he just kept repeating "this episode is bad" without providing any substantive criticism, meanwhile dedicated what felt like a billion years to screeching about it being "A cD rOm!!!!1!!!!!1!1!1" ... just feels like he's trying to play both sides at best.
@@Phoenix0F8 I think they nailed it on the head at the end of the vid with the idea that he's in a weird corner with his audience. He cannot even pretend to like the show, so he admits it's bad, but he's still access media, so he has to put double the effort to not look like THOSE people who usually don't like Disney Star Wars crap.
But his arguments are like totally fantastic. Yes indeed, it's not stated in the movies how old the character is or how long his species lives for. Only in that lesser, not true, expanded non-canon that only dirty, smelly nerds bother to look at. So, on that basis, I'd like to see Obi-Wan Kenobi show up in the Acolyte. Because, after all, it's never been stated in the movies how old Kenobi actually is or how his life cycle works. We don't even know what species he is, really. Could be a Timelord for all we know. If it's never stated in the movies, it ain't G-Canon, and therefore, there should be zero reluctance to see it happen, and it wouldn't feel wild, and weird, and careless, and stupid, and.... Look, he can totally show up in the Acolyte and, because that would make it T-Canon, that means all the books, official material, games, C-D-ROMS! and animated stuff that actually go into Kenobi's past...?
Yeah, they don't matter now, regardless of how much people spent making them or fans spent their money on them, no matter how well regarded, well though out, popular, or widely accepted they are within the fandom. You have no case, nerds. You will like the new T-Canon.
Because this is totally how you curate a massive, sprawling genre universe that's not only super-popular, but riddled with proper nerds. Nerds who like details. So yeah, plop baby Ewan in there. Thanks for the money, nerds!
@@captbuckyohare5585
HERE HERE 🍻
C-3PO is gay. But R2-D2 is a lesbian. But C-3PO and R2-D2 are a couple. So… R2-D2 and C-3PO are a straight couple then…
Then they also throw in 'Well they're non-binary too so'
Yeah, it all just means fucking nothing now. Like the script of the acolyte.
Obviously they’re both a lesbian and gay couple and heterosexual couple, both of them are just too transphobic to accept the other’s gender.
No, they are a non-binary trans-inclusive cyber-throuple looking for a third.
Every guy and guy duo must be gay, and every girl and girl duo must be lesbian. The only things you can't show anymore are two dudes/girls who have a simple plantonic relationship. I.e. Kirk and Spock HAVE to be gay now, and any two in a straight heterosexual relationship, well, unless it's diverse.
@ThatBillmanGuy that's because they fetishize it, or are projecting themselves into it, and demand validation.
It's pretty simple. His age is a big deal because this confirms what everything else points to, that they just do not give a fuck about Star Wars.
And his line in TPM about sith (which they immediately assume Maul is one despite no proof) not existing for a millennium. A thousand years, not a century, which is the hundred their basing this story before the Prequels.
Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Oh...I meant a Millennium...Falcon! Yes, no one has seen a Sith in a Millennium Falcon. It was just a misunderstanding. From a certain point of view."
So glad they bring Platoon around so often. Instant classic guest 😙
The only thing canon in Disney is the current frame you're viewing.
They're THAT incompetent despite promising during the decanonization of the EU that THEIR canon would be carefully curated so that it would ALL ve equally canon
The worst part with Disney "canon" is that I don't think anyone in Lucasfilm know what's canon and what's noncanon.
@@MegaDarkness5000 of course not. They don't care. Disney is treating a multibillion dollar cash cow like a lemonade stand with no planning and no effort or respect.
Its why they're failing so badly. Laziness, hubris and incompetence. A perfect storm of it. It will go down as the biggest mishandling of a franchise ever and one of the costliest entertainment media mistakes of all time
Yeah, this isnt unique to star wars either, current disney is that incompetent.
They literally have the lyric "eloquent dancers" in wish. Their method just doesnt fucking function
At what point does incompetence become malice?
@zacharynelson5731 Whenever BlackRock et al are involved.
There's a rising popularity in the idea that canon doesn't matter and it's extremely frustrating. Why would I wanna watch a continuing story if it doesn't give a shit about what came before?
You mean you don't want to see Firefly's first episode but tune in next episode and get Gilmore girls?! You misogynist bigot 😂😂😂
Ironically with the caliber of writing today that scenario might still end up being a better show than 90% of the schlock being released currently.
Some people only ever cared about canon because it was backed by the media's talking heads in our small circle. This is fine, we grew up and understood that storytelling requires consistent... Well, storytelling. Now that this is a megapopular thing, kids grow up with the view that canon is secondary to whatever the big company says, and they lose some of their barely-existing levels of critical thinking.
It's actually cool when stories have meaningful overlaps. It's not talked about much, but the first time Coruscant existed was in Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire." No other third party materials It was then adopted by George as what Zahn made it-the capitol of the Galaxy, formerly of the Old Republic, then the Empire, then the New Republic. For all that George decided he wasn't beholden to something written by people other than himself, he could still adopt things from other sources. And for all of George's shitting on the EU, that little nod was still kind of cool. It was Disney that decanonized Coruscant as the capitol of the New Republic, not Lucas.
I think it comes from the idea that art not only doesn't need rules or restrictions, it just shouldn't have them. Canon is just such a restriction. Why should I, an auteur story teller, be beholden to the works of others in telling my truth? So what if I'm using their ideas and banking on the goodwill and loyalty of the audience they worked to build? So what if character decisions are inconsistent or if outcomes lack cause and effect or are contradictory to the logic of the narrative as long as there's an emotional pay off? This goes back as far as Patrick Willems saying that Canto Bight wasn't a waste of time because if it hadn't happened then Finn wouldn't have learned a childishly simplistic lesson and we wouldn't have seen his moment with Rose.
They hate canon cause they want to insert their headcanon into stuff :(
When I first heard Ki-adi was in the episode I assumed it was just for the meme that he'd be in the wookie episode and with good relationships with wookies. But then the episode happened and the wookie didn't get a word of dialogue and died off screen on a relaxing forest retreat that has no people or resorts anywhere.
They are really going with they could not afford to make the wookie fight ? That would of been cool .
@chrismarshall6956 20 million an episode but they couldn't make a dude un a wookie pull out a Saber and fight.
We'll learn more in the upcoming Mundi series. 😆
"What about the writer's attack on the Wookies?"
@@MVPUnlucky he's right, it's an important arc. One we can not afford to lose.
John Campea screaming about it being a "cD rOm" becoming the next EFAP in-joke, is the only thing that brings me joy in life
the acolyte looks so shit bc they’re saving their cgi budget for the jar jar reveal
Mundi- "I've done it master. I deleted all records that any of this happened. They'll be none the wiser for a hundred years or so."
Jar Jar- "Yousa did good meesa apprentice, wesa make big bombad doodoo now! The Jedi must no no suspect us, so keepsa secret okey dey?"
@@SuperMegaGaylordI freaking wish.
It would be funnier if they used his model from 1999 instead of updating it.
@@hoonterofhoonters6588 god Jar Jar was 1999. We really took the Balrog and said, "That's as good as it gets, @#$& it, ps3 graphics are the bar now forever."
Smylo Ren saying '"Me-sa being bad-bad boyo" with Lucas cameo telling right into the camera "he's being the key to all this"
4 1/2 hours?! I don't know this podcast anymore.
You wanna hear 16 hours of acolyte discussion?
@@Snope111Maybe one day.
@@Snope111si
@Snope111
If we're fortunate the total time of the Acolyte EFAP vids will total more than 16 hours.
it had 7 minutes prologue efap, though.
I can't stand this slippery definition of canon these people always abide to to excuse Disney's mistakes and mold around until it fits them, then they abandon it right after.. "Canon doesn't matter. But also, it was never canon because it was LESSER canon. BUT ALSO. Lesser canon is still canon, but that canon was decanonized and also just on a CD-Rom that wasn't even canon anyway." And all of that is right next to other nonsense like "its for children, why do you care" etc.
Tbf even the OT SW didn't stick to its own Canon.
cannon matters because how an IP's owners treat it tells you everything you need to know about whether or not it's worth your time. If they don't give a crap, neither should you.
@@vandalcreedNot nearly to this level. Find a better argument
2:10. It's as simple as this is an actress who has not spent a second thinking about who this character is, what she wants, where she's come from, outside of the text on the page she's reading from. This cast hasn't been encouraged to think beyond the superficial, develop any internal life or history, because the CREATORS clearly haven't done so, just writing down whatever they need to happen on any given page, at any given moment, to make the plot go where they want it to, without any regard for who these characters they've written are supposed to be. The actors are shallow and lost because the creators are shallow.
@@landonmathews6111 is the SW on Pornhub canon?
Smilo Ren/Darth Teeth looks like they lifted some deviant art or creepy pasta version of the Frowning Friends
I like to call them Lord Molar
2:56:47 "you see, this one guy said canon should be flexible so you're not allowed to care about continuity"
This series is what normies insisited wouldnt happen when sequel criticism really gained some traction. Only now, at the end, do they understand.
When did they?
@@MegaSpideyman basically every time they affirmed Disneys abortion as good or not that bad because of worthless superficial reasons and/or lack of basic critical approach to consuming art
@@xentiment6581 Ok, I just meant when did they try to reassure people that that wouldn't happen.
@@MegaSpideymanevery time they said that the people who criticised the bad shows/movies were just nitpicking, haters
@@MegaSpideyman Basically the cover story this entire time has been along the lines of them not taking away our toys, they're not going to destroy star wars, they're just expanding it for a broader audience. It's still star wars.
So that was a fucking lie.
The side by side comparison between the two actresses is so baffling. One can actually speak in well crafted sentences, the other plainly cannot. I'm already drawn away from anything the latter one could say because the presentation is just way worse...
She sounded less eloquent than me when I've had 8 shots
One could speak about character and motivation, and the other could speak only in pronouns.
I hope its because she's nervous in front of massive crowd like there was at that event, but I kind of doubt it.
This show sucks I think we can all agree. But trying to compare an actor talking about her character that has like 10 minutes of screen time vs an actor talking about a major character in a show is not a fair comparison. I guarantee she knows her character sucks which is why she can't form any coherent sentences about it but it's her job to promote it regardless. Those clips should be a condemnation on the writing and directing of the show, not the actor. I feel a little bad for her to be honest, having to defend and promote a really shit role in a shit show.
@@prolix3557 that's true, of course there is a difference to be made between those characters and their impact (thus far at least) in their respective shows
Canon had never mattered to Disney, Mundi being alive when he shouldn’t be is just plain incompetence and you can thank Dave’s ass for that.
Ryan’s victory laps about the guy are well earned.
Ryan Kinel?
@@MegaSpideyman Yes.
Every time Ryan goes off on Failony I coom just a little bit.
Dave Failoni: I'm going to use Eeth Koth in my Clone Wars series.
Leland Chee: Dave Eeth Koth died in Attack of the Clones. You can't use him.
Dave Failoni: I don't care.
I've been agreeing with Ryan since Mando season 2. Dave is a complete hack and Favreau simply didn't care.
Campeas one of the most explicitly anti fan creators around
But why?
@MegaSpideyman I would guess it's because he's a jerk.
I remember my first interaction with him around 2011, where I was commenting on one of his written TCW reviews that he was factually wrong on one point, and he basically just told me to fuck off 😂
@@szeltovivarsydroxan9944 He just irrationally hates the entire prequel era and never gives any credit for anything good in it.
He does seem like an elitist prick.
Imagine if Christian bale just randomly screamed some lines in the prestige instead of a subtle portrayal of the two characters
"We're twins, brother. People like us aren't welcome in a world run by men of one-child families."
Ki-Adi-Mundi being not only alive but also present during the events of The Acolyte means that he is now solely responsible for the rise of Palpatine
Look at this from the Cerean (Mundi's species) wookiepedia page.
"At least one member of the species had a long lifespan; Ki-Adi-Mundi was active as a Jedi Knight roughly a century before serving on the High Council."
They're coping so fucking hard. If you go to the Legacy page of the Cereans, there's a good bit more information on them, and in the sidebar is THIS.
Child: 1-10 years
Young adult: 11-15 years
Adult: 16-35 years
Middle age: 36-53 years
Old: 54-64 years
Venerable: 65+ years
He should get in line behind Guy-ladriel for heroes who ended up being responsible for the victory of the villain
I wonder if you could go on the internet archives and pull up what it said before the episode aired @@haku8135
"They never said the word Sith"
Sure... but the Sith are the literal mortal enemy of the Jedi... so any Jedi worth their salt would immediately want to PROVE it WASN'T a Sith!
Period.
The reason he says the Sith have been extinct for a millenia, is because the FUCKING Jedi genocided those fuckers because... bum bum bahhhhhh They were darkside users.
Also, Mae quotes part of the Sith Code in Ep 2, the exchange during the poison mixing, where he goes "and peace" followed by Mae "is a lie, I know." So by all indications Mae knows the Sith code and there is really only one place she could have learned that from. And sure the Jedi dont know about that exchange, but it should torpedo any argument that Smilo Ren might just be a random Dark Side user.
Figure wearing all black, has a red lightsaber, is killing Jedi....sure they never said the word, but they HAD to be thinking it.
The whole concept of there being a manichean pair of factions of Jedi and Sith is very, very retarded and babyish. As soon as they started trying to explain it (the OT wisely didn't mention any of it) the retardedness is fully exposed.
@@TheNoonish Smilo Ren was barely holding back from dropping those S-bombs.
Jar Jar was Sith Mastermind. I made it canon. Done.
Mesa behind it all.
1:11:50 - That is insane that he doesn't fully understand what he's saying and is still the best actor on the show lol
I thought you were talking about John for a sec.
It's untrue. He knows English. This is his first English speaking role, but he went to university and learned some English there. He had to get more fluent in order to take on this role, but he's spoken English before. You can find clips of him speaking to fans of Squid Game in English. He's not doing what MauLer said and just reciting sounds.
I understand that getting one Jedi’s canonical birth date wrong is a tiny detail in the grand scheme of things. But it’s a symptom of a much bigger, underlying issue: that Disney doesn’t give a shit about what they’ve got and they’re careless. All these tiny details add up to one big miserable end product for the audience.
They just wanted a Sith in their Acolyte show so they purposefully pulled in a character from the prequels so they can do some smoke and mirrors wand-waving over the ”no Sith in a millennium" line. They will 100% twist established canon however they want.
Theory: Campea being dismissive of CD ROMs is a result of someone eviscerating him with a „CDeez nuts“
I burned the entire "EFAP #290" onto CD ROM. Which degrades to F-Canon. Everyone, please disperse, anything commented here will be superseded.
Burn all EFAP episodes on CD Roms.. then we send them to John Campea.
Nice to hear The Little Platoon!
John Campea : Even when he hates something he can't help but shill.
He's also deliberately missing the point, which is why his argument makes no sense and he seems to know it by the end
He's technically correct, Disney own Star Wars, Disney can change what's 'official cannon' for whatever reason. Disney doesn't even have to pay attention to it's own cannon.... but that's not why people are pissed about this
The problem is that as soon as the company admits they don't actually give a flying fuck, which is what Disney essentially did with the clumsy after-the-fact retcon, is that why should anybody bother getting invested in an IP who's established lore means nothing to it's own creators? Why spend the time and energy learning about this universe when it can all change on a dime just because the next show decides it needs things to be different?
Star Wars survived as long as it did because of the lore, because there was so much for the 'nerds' to spend their time and energy learning about and discussing with other nerds. That's what turns people from casual viewers into actual fans... Disney's made it quite clear that's kind of pointless now
And for what, exactly? an Easter Egg? Some cheap memberberries to try and trick the old fans to come back? Just to immediately attack those same fans for actually giving a fuck about this IP? Seriously, what the fuck Disney, is anybody over there capable of thinking these things through? You had other options to get the same effect, but you had to go and hire writers too lazy to look for them, now you think shifting the blame to the fans is gonna net you more viewers? how, exactly, is this supposed to end well?
There's so much more going on here than just them changing cannon. The 'why' of all this really screams how utterly dysfunctional Lucasfilm has become, and THAT is why this is a big deal to Star Wars fans.
I love watching people defend this shit, they always devolve into insulting Star Wars to defend their undying love for it.
I hate what smooth brains like Round Head have done to the concept of subversive story telling. I quite enjoy it myself and always loved it growing up; such as the people with the big spiky teeth, horns, and red eyes being kind and caring gentle giants. Yet the point of subversive story telling is to give you a payoff you didn't expect yet was present in the work the whole time. Meanwhile the Round Head school of SuBvErSiOn is just "lol, there is no payoff."
Do you know Mark Millar?
I still love the Hot Fuzz Subversion. It's not what you think it was going to be *but* it still makes entirely consistent sense with all the events you've seen so far.
@@MegaSpideyman
Maybe? I probably know his work but I don't remember names or faces.
@@MediumRareOpinions That's the trick - to setup the subversion everywhere without revealing it early. That requires talent though.
I’d actually add that there is usually a payoff if this shitty writing it’s just that it’s the payoff no one wanted or liked so that obviously means it’s good.
I love the ki adi mundi reference just shows that they are aware of what they’re doing which they probably think is genius but everyone else is like that makes it so much worse. Like they actually had the knowledge of how this fucked with canon and instead of being like “whoa let’s go back another few hundred years” they decided to change reality in the universe. And now they are actually retroactively ruining the other movies in the most blatant manner possible which just comes off as a toddler throwing a fit and breaking everyone else’s sandcastles because theirs fell apart.
And typically, Disney advertises or teases their cameos. They knew this was controversial so they intentionally didn't promote this one. They knew what they were doing.
Canon needs to make sense again:
The Ki Adi Mundi of the Acolyte can't be the same as in Ep. 1 - it's
Ki Adi Mundi (Acolyte, great grandfather)
Al Mundi (grandfather)
King Kong Mundi (father)
Ki Adi Mundi (Ep. 1, named after gr. grandfather)
Canon repaired - and all it took was ALL the copium 😂
I agree and I'll add that it's so much more satisfying when someone can write a clever story that ties in with the canon. It is amateurish to disregard canon so that you can write lazy stories.
I liked Al Mundi in Married... with Children.
He's actually Ko Subtracti Tuesdai, a cousin of Ki Adi Mundi and Ka Dividi Wednesdi.
I will never stop finding Disneys 'Writers' inability to stick to canon hilarious. There is no reason for it, at best it's key jangling, but they never even bother making a rudimentary google regarding their millions of dollars work. Sheer lack of professionalism, and pride in your work despite the apparent love of 'Pride'.
God bless Fringy and Mauler's patience regarding people liking bad stuff.
I could never.
Even the Schumacher Batman films?
@@MegaSpideyman Oh cmon you know exactly the type of bad I mean.
The sludge corporations pump without a trace of self-worth.
@@canaldecasta i mean, i can easily understand people enjoying bad movies. I myself can get much enjoyment out of terrible films for reasons the creators really wish i didn't.
What i will not tolerate is people using that as an argument for whether the movie's good or not....
If you watch Cottage on Dartmoor you will always laugh at people who like the vastly inferior Blackmail.
The way corporate talent treats canon makes perfect sense once you acknowledge that on some level, they consider you stupid for caring. They think it's stupid that art they've been behind the scenes of the production of, which in their mind is just a product, is capable of creating entire cultures of unique discussion and branching media, because they do just see the in-story reality as the ham sandwich inside of a plastic take-out box at a gas station. It's just the necessary meat for selling a product, the majority of them do not see it with more sacredness than that.
So when it comes to scoring easy social victory points by making a point in favor of their fellow professionals and on some level, ideological allies, the majority of them don't even think about you, the fan, at any time in any way beyond the abstract of a teen or grown adult who got feelings for a product they envision solely on a spreadsheet.
With guys like Campea, it's a little more complicated, because they do care in some way - just not nearly enough about the fan to turn down that guaranteed approval from their peers. It's moral weakness, which almost every single political group in America has devolved from understanding how to care about anymore, and that goes quadruple-triple for people in entertainment, because very few of the ones who throw their hat into the ring of public discussion see the art you love as anything but a lucky scratch-off that landed them a life of comfort for playing pretend in an air-conditioned stage - and becoming famous for it! The actors who are good people don't tend to have such decrepit personal lives that they need to go onto Twitter to assert an illusion of social dominance over strangers, they're just doing coke and having sex, much more respectable.
My take is very cynical, you'll find true believers here and there, but most of these people are borderline reptilian thinkers who really just think you're a sucker who lives to subsidize their lifestyle, and eventually many of them really do stop asking if they deserve it, and start blaming you for not guaranteeing them a Barbie Dreamhouse future. At some point, some of their mindsets really come down to, "Like dude, you're like, probably not even a perfect totem pole of corporate-supported identity types, so like why are you talking to me????? I already have more points????????? "
That's why channels like EFAP are so important; the consumers have very few beacons of earnest passion to rally around to gain social leverage over literal trust-fund millionaires who have the resources to control social opinion. The podcast isn't just practical, it gets people talking, and gives more sentimental mindsets towards art a place where they can still discuss art without being explicitly positive. I really do mean it when I'm say that I'm proud of the EFAP boys and how far they've come, because it's not just movie discussion anymore, it's dissemination of a very healthy philosophy towards consumer art that gives all of us an excellent in to bully rich kids.
If you're not bullying rich kids, mate, you're just not having fun. Elon Musk's Neuralink killed like six monkeys, you get to flame him about that literally forever no matter what he does in the future, and it's comforting to know that we can all bond by making fun of stuff like that. Amandla Stenberg mumble-rapped a diss track that forgot to rhyme and forgot to be a rap, it rules how fun it is to make fun of that. John Campea mentally disengages from the concept of cause-and-effect when he tries to defend Disneywood, that's genuinely fucking hilarious.
TL but really good read. Excelent points, mate!
but, counterpoint: have you considered that it was a [imagine the next words in Campea's autistic screeching voice:] cD rOm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A CD ROM!!!!!!! THAT INVALIDATES EVERYTHING! IT WAS ON A CD ROM MOTHERFUCKERS!
A CD ROM!!!
STOP CRYING AND SCREAMING! IT WAS A CD ROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Genuinely one of the best comments I've read anywhere, ever. Thank you.
So much world building from the line "the Sith have been extinct for over a millennia". I don't think people are talking enough about how much it informs the audience.
"Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Osha and Mae Anesaya? You have? Oh yes of course you have, it's a very common story that everyone at this period of time has heard, how silly of me for bringing it up."
@@vegancam Mae the force be with you.
@@vegancam Do you know the story behind the saying "Mae the force be with you" just watch the acolyte.
Oh I was always saying "Mae The Force be with you" back prior to 1977 even before the first movie came out, because I'm not a racist or a sexist or a homophobe, no Sir/Madam/They/Them.
I love when MauLer gets "mad" at Rags because it reminds me of that one comment or tweet or whatever it was long ago, that "called out" the efap crew of being too afraid to disagree with Rags.
It can come across like that sometimes.
Timestamp pls
I don’t even watch Efap that much, and they disagree with him constantly. Usually when he is pretending to be smarter than he is.
@@jacobcolle3746 They've gotten far less patient with him as time has gone on. After Wolf left there was a very long time where no one would disagree with Rags.
Even now whenever one of the guests disagrees with him he becomes a snarky child who disrupts the stream so he can be rude and condescending for a minute. At this point it's just not worth it for a guest to disagree with the stupid stuff he says.
Timestamp's 2:30:00 and as expected it was a nothing burger.
The Crapolyte
Fans love timelines. I've seen fans piece together every significant detail from the MCU to Pirates or the Caribbean, and there's a great satisfaction in seeing how backstories or trivial throwaway lines help establish a character's journey from X to Y. Changing that timeline for a character might be forgiven if the payoff is worth it, but this just feels like Disney hamfisting another well-liked character (as you all said, it could have been an OC Jedi and changed nothing) to play defense for a bad product.
This is from wookiepedia also
"Sith Acolyte was a rank within the Sith Order prior to Darth Bane's reformation. The term was used to refer to Force-sensitive apprentices who had only just started on the dark path under the tutelage of a more experienced Sith Lord to rightfully bear the mantle of Sith."
So john campea can shut up lol
I feel like the Ki Adi Mundi age thing wouldn't be that big of a problem if Disney didn't constantly trample and spit on canon. They have destroyed any good will for flexibility with canon.
I think if he was used as strictly key-jangling, rather than having a role in the investigation of antagonistic Force users, there'd be much less outrage.
I still don't know why he's there - why do we need to have characters we know on screen. Have this story be set in a region with an ambitious Jedi not willing to report failure to The Council, so they want to handle this internally with a handful of Jedi. You save on the cost of establish characters and can focus on the story you want to tell, regardless of quality. The audience can be smart enough to not need Member Berries.
Added to the fact they threw all of the EU in the trash to make it easier for them going forward on writing stories, and they still mess up canon.
Wait a minute... Every Frame A Pause... oh no its actually an anagram of EFAP, lords of the smart rope.
C'mon guys of course Anakin destroyed the death star. What, you're gonna believe something on a VHS tape from the 70's?!
Next Fiction Battle: Pretty Smart Ants V.S. Intelligent Rope
It looks like this got reuploaded, so sorry for repeating myself but... I want to clarify something that often gets blown out of proportion. Lee Jung-Jae, the guy playing Sol, definitely had a working knowledge of English prior to the Acolyte. He took a crash course to brush up on it. He did NOT learn it from 0 and he fully understands what he's saying, well... as much as anyone can in this show....
He grew up in Seoul and graduated form a decent Uni, there is very little chance that he did not learn English in school for several years.
I have a strong feeling it was much more akin to a dialect coach as opposed to learning the language from scratch. (read: pronunciation practice)
There are posts on his Instagram back in the squid game days where he was thanking people in English... walking around without a script. I doubt he just memorized that.
Can we get this to the top please? He's got difficulties pronouncing the words but there's no way he's just speaking phonetically without understanding the lines at all. Where did this myth come from?
@TheRealJabbergeist it likely came from the fact that Asian actors in the past have done this- Jackie chan was a famous example. It borders on a racist expectation now that any Asian actor to have swapped to western media, MUST just been speaking phonetics.
Soul's(how is his name spelt?) English is far too clean for simply phonetic imitation.
@@biferose158 I absolutely agree. For context, I've been living in working in East Asia (Japan, Korea, China) for 15 years in English language education, and it's crazy how so many people imagine Asians have zero knowledge of English. In reality any person in Japan or Korea under the age of 50 that grew up anywhere other than the absolute boonies have likely had a minimum of six years of formal English language education starting from junior high school.
I remember when Lost became popular a lot of people talked about how good Yunjin Kim's (the woman who played Sun) English was.... well, she did grow up in New York (moved there when she was 10). But people just assume that Asians cannot speak English.
There’s this funny thing these movies and shows keep doing where they make themselves very transparent and upfront political propaganda, and when they’re criticized on the basis of the politics and social issues *they brought up* , the people involved with creating them cry foul, then the fans of the content start gaslighting and claiming the upfront political propaganda isn’t real to try and dismiss the critics
They want to have their cake and eat it, too. You simultaneously need to believe that the politics being presented are objectively correct to enjoy these stories and to dismiss any/all criticisms of the politics as being irrelevant to the quality of the content. It’s really just an evolved form of those kids at recess who’d refuse to play by the rules of the other kids because they wanted to have all the powers and none of the weaknesses, which made it fun for themselves, but shitty for everyone else. The fact these are all grown adults is what makes this more embarrassing than anything
I wish I knew why this was allowed to proliferate.
I also recommend Attack the Block it stars John Boyega and the female doctor where they live in a apartment complex that get invaded by some pretty original aliens
3:36:44 MauLer, they actually do that.
Most important articles have two tabs: one for Legends, and one for Canon.
Unsurprisingly, the Legends articles are much more fleshed out.
Considering what he said about being able to do what he wants now, and being limited by suits in the past, Russel T Davis might be the example of a case of management actually saving a movie/series from creatives...
Happens more than you'd think. Constraints are good for creativety, it's why talented people create internal consistency even when under no ones watch.
Yeah, but remember Stuckman madame web narrative? How everything bad is management's fault somehow? That's something I hear a lot, and this is the first time I can actually point to a creative lamenting management's interference for what is likely his best work ever 😅
Ki-Adi-Mundi being a Sith Lord would sadly be more a compelling conclusion than whatever they came up with lol
My favourite part was when the witches chanted “The thread is ALWAYS right!”
The Doctor Who discussion is shocking. Its like theres been a mass infestation of brain eating parasites but we just dont talk about it and the infected get to keep their jobs.
the infection initially showed itself during the wittaker/chimbal era tho i think that was RTD in a trenchcoat calling the shots.
and the brain eating parasite is named Rian Johnson.
The infection is called communism.
4 hours of letting it sink in that LucasFilm has character assassinated Ki-Adi-Mundi.
Don't ever engage with CD Roms. It will bring you nothing but misery.
Wat
"close your heart to the CD ROMs, boy"
Honestly, hearing Mon Mothma's actor talk about Andor is the most star wars has made me feel since Andor originally released. She's giving her own genuine insight and she displays that passion so elegantly.
Nobody will ever know that this efap actually has 7 minutes of hidden length
3:13:47 i'm reminded of mauler's hypothetical of Luke in a diaper piledriving the sun, guess by campea's logic that /could/ be t-canon
38:36 - The Acolyte discussion starts.
3:32:30 The CD Roms ruined it.
I love how people who love the Acolyte where all excited " ooh the high Republic, we've never seen that in live action before"
There's nothing in this show that tells me it's the high Republic era other than the opening text. The Jedi dress the same, the ships are similar, the three villages we've seen look the same. The Jedi council building barely looks any different.
Jedi don’t dress the same, they have those horrendous yellow and white robes that look like bad cosplays of jedi.
@@nathanjora7627 true but I mean generally it's just robes. I could be wrong and high Republic also did wear just robes in the lore
@@emuman09 High republic did just wear robes in the lore. The same ugly yellow and white robes that look straight out of bad cosplay.
@@nathanjora7627 I stand corrected, thank you
I just love how he was so excited talking about Anakin blowing up the Death Star. He was invested in it and animated about it.
That is called a "performance".
Smilo is Palpatine. They know the fans want more Sheev. 😂
glad to listen to this as i learn much more than watching the actual shows
yes, and CD Roms are evil.
The most hilarious thing is that during the entire build-up to the show, Mundi was a massive question... come to find out, he's in the fucking show 40 years before he was born, and they didn't bother to advise their brothers in arms at WOKE-iepedia!! It's like steering an airplane into an iceberg... in the desert.
It's funny because Disney is usually so gassed to advertise their cameos, but they hid this one. They knew this was controversial so they threw it in the background and kept him as a very minor piece of the story.
CD-Rom side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...uncannon.
Is it possible to learn this power?
I beg of you, use my CD of knowledge
Disney Fans on the trashing of the EU: This is a good thing! Now they can tell their story without contradicting what came before!
Disney Fans on now: Contradictions don't matter! It's low-tier canon!
Lesbian Headlamp and her wife = Sithor Sisters.
Also, they take Smilo Ren's helmet off and you Hear " It'sa Me, mesa back"!!
The remaining 15 minutea are all jedis running away and pissing themselves
7:15 disney realllllllly wants the last jedi to be the new "it's their empire strikes back moment!" but with last jedi instead.
Anyone feel like Rags likes to disagree with Marc for the tiniest of things?
Yes, he always has to be antagonistic towards someone, back in the early days, he'd do that to Wolf.
@@PunksterOS I don’t really have a problem with it to be honest, just keeps popping up when Marc is on. Seems like Marc just brushes it off anyway
@@brianjohnson9890 It's Rags' humour style, ridicule of the easiest target. I've followed Rags for over ten years and there's almost always one person in some old Sargon livestreams, where he'd peck and peck at someone to ridicule them for his own amusement, nitpicking every little thing his "mark' would say, to try and generate a cheap laugh.
I don't care for it, personally, it's too mean spirited but I also don't care, it's just how he's always been. If those he pecks at don't care, neither do I. I'm not one of those who'll get offended on another's behalf.
needlessly shitting on CD ROMs is the only thing that brings me joy in life
Watch how in the end Osha becomes a Sith, and Mae becomes a Jedi.
Therefore, Osha The Jedi is killed and becomes Osha The Sith, then she is saved by Mae "Telling her she loves her."
John Campea is not trying to convince us fans that we are wrong. He is trying to prevent his audience of Disney Wars fans from agreeing with us, because once they realise we aren't lying about this, they might start to wonder about what else we weren't lying about.
I had an argument with someone about Fallout show. I pointed out all the plot holes amd such and he said i quote "its not a plot hole just because they haven't explained this thing yet. Just wait for the next season and they'll expalain all the contradictions and plot holes. And beside all those are jst nitpicks."
My brain hurts...
RIP EFAP 290-1, The Buffering.
CD Roms killed EFAP 290-1
53:20 Oh that remind me of Pluto, it's an excellent manga, recently got adapted in anime, it's actually a spin-off of Astroboy and follows a regular middle aged robot working for europol investigating the murder of several of the strongest robots in existence, so you can see the parallels there.
Who was it that said, "I can't be beholden to what someone else wrote 20 years ago!"
That pisses me off because it's so untrue. You clearly are beholden to it if you want to make a sequel. There's a reason they're not having characters talk about how Luke Skywalker grew up on Corellia where he was trained by legendary Jedi Master Jar-Jar Binks before he joined the Old Republic on a mission to blow up the dastardly superweapon, Rogue One. If you're fitting in the Star Wars universe, you're beholden to an understanding of that story or else the audience is no longer immersed.
Canon doesn't matter until it reaches G to Q tier levels. Then we have to factor in sub, head, and semi canons as well.
Disney Star Wars writers understand canon like ICP understands magnets.
"How do they work?"
"And I don't wanna hear it from no fans"
How is Marc so consistently two minutes behind every conversation?
It ticked off Rags I noticed. 😅
If I put John Campea on a CD-Rom and give it to him, does that destroy every argument that he has ever made?
Why not just use Yoda instead of cone head? Yoda says "cover up we must" it dicks down Yoda's character but they don't care anyway plus when the "there hasn't been a sith since" line occurs in the prequels, Yoda we would now understand has hidden the presence of a Sith for 100 years as he stays silent
The writer of the episode said they originally wanted Yoda in that role but he wasn't technically available so they used Mundi.
I think the writers of The Acolyte 100% wanted to reference and pre-manipulate the line from The Phantom Menace made by Mundi in the Jedi Council chamber so that they could have a Sith in their TV show. Having Yoda know about it 100 years beforehand and concealing it would be the 'wiser' move but they basically weren't allowed to use him.
I’m amazed that the investors in Disney don’t demand an audit for shows like this. Every aspect of this show, from CGI to costume to writing to score to fight choreography is worse than HotD S2, despite costing an extra $60million for the same number of episodes (less runtime too). It’s defrauding investors to pay off activists and it’s gross
The largest investors aren't purely interested in profits either.
They're in on it.
I can believe that it is almost intentional by Disney Lucasfilm to purposefully have so many inconsistencies to justify remaking the OT and PT to fit with the new canon
We all complain about the streams getting short. But I think we can all agree the 8 minutes that buffered for an hour were insanely cruelty inflicted upon us by the long man.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Goddamit, when Rags noticed harsh ‘S’ sounds I just can’t unhear it. Every digital audio (and even maybe video) editor program has de-essing feature that is designed just for that
Schlurpo is the only Star Wars character I care about.
48:08 I remember during the marketing for one of the Jurassic World movies they were comparing one of the dinosaurs to Joker.
THank you Mauler & EFAP for all the good work you do ! I look forward to your Acolyte videos more than the actual episodes on Disney
The mental-gymnastics Campea pulls just to defend what is obviously a severe lack of oversight and an atrocious handling of an intellectual property, sums up everything I dislike about the guy.
I think it's fair to say, if you have to create a 'Canonical spreadsheet' including a tier based system, all in order to justify something that was clearly an oversight by hacks, who almost definitely got their jobs due to their arbitrary characteristics and not their skill with a pen, then you have got to know that you are not only gaslighting your own audience but likely think very little about them.
Who is he to decide on what is and isn't legitimate criticism? Current-day Lucasfilm seemingly messes up the canon of their own franchise, how can fans just ignore something so blatant like that? Campea's above it all, you see, he is hOnEsT, unlike all those commoner fans, whom go into things just wanting to hAtE.
How does that guy get ANY views? He is so condescending and self-important.
If that CD-Rom was the "official" Insider's Guide for Episode 1, then, doesn't that make it G-Cannon? It still contains George Lucas's movie content in an officially licensed product. The books and games were a lower level because they weren't content from the creator, himself, so if he wanted to, he could supersede the things he wanted to in order to make the movies he wanted. This guy would say that anything in George Lucas's personal notes or journal would be lower level canon than The Acolyte because it was in a BOOK.
I can maybe buy that Disney doesn't want to completely ruin the idea of the Jedi, but I also wouldn't put it past them to make the entire history of the Jedi be incompetent and malicious so Rey can swoop in with the new movie and course correct.
Than you for keeping the pumber story :)
Nice to see this up now.
Is it working now? Who was here for the 8 minute upload?
CD Roms are to blame for it.
It’s non cannon now
8 minute?
"This is called a story." - Mauler talking about The Acolyte 2024 totally in context.
That male Grace Randolph that calls himself John Campea is quite a piece of work 😂