Two big things to announce! 1. We are currently voting on the next game to cover on the podcast on Patreon/Subscribestar! This time, we're doing a "one-off" podcast, something short that can be covered in a single episode. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice is currently winning. That vote will run through Friday. However, after that poll ends, we will immediately vote on the next big podcast series, which will be "State of the Arc Sequels" podcast (Xenosaga, Nier Automata, Mass Effect 2). 2. Play through the end of Chapter 2 for next time!
Imagine how things could have been different if you hadn't gone off to attack the Corpse Brigade just stayed at your post at the castle to protect Alma and Teta.
I'm pretty sure that most people will vote for yet another ME2 or NierA review even though there's literally no quality Xenosaga content available on this platform
I'd say Vagrant Story is very much a sequel to Tactics. It may not directly follow on from the events of Tactics but it certainly carries on its themes as well as a surprising amount of gameplay and references. Should it not be in the sequels poll? It is set later in the same world at least.
One thing I noticed on my most recent playthrough: the game begins with Ovelia praying for God to help Ivalice. Just a moment later, Ramza Beoulve arrives.
I have often heard a rumor that the reason the introduction at Gariland in the PSX version spells out the phrase “Little Money” so slowly was the game’s programmers making a jab at Squaresoft for paying them a lot less money than the more famous members on the team. Ironic that such a subtle message would be embedded in a game fundamentally about class divisions.
It was an overall square was basically broke after dumping money into ffvii and this game was being developed around the same time so the fruits of that labor had yet to come to harvest. This game was made on a very tight budget thus why I'm glad it got the love it deserved with the war of the lions.
I have to say that I love the way you do these podcasts. What it makes them really engaging for me is how some parts of it is information that both of you didn't know or remember that can also be unknow to most viewers, while Casen takes the perspective of someone that haven't beaten the game several times, and Mike the perspective of a fan that played a long time ago and is analyzing it together with Casen. And doing so in parts without spoilers until what was revealed up to that part also makes inviting for newcomers. In that way, several different types of viewers can feel part of the discussion, even if they choose not to comment on the videos, it's brilliant. Just wanted to say that. Peace!
So glad you guys shouted out the amazing sprite animation in this game. I think to this day, no other game done in this style has even come close to being anywhere near as expressive in that department. It's really something special!
I’m really glad they went with sprites for the characters and polygon art for the landscapes, instead of the other way around like FFVII; the characters in that game looked terrible
I could be remembering this wrong, but I believe there's a 4th opening "cut scene" if you leave it long enough that shows a trailer esque video of some of the various jobs with synopsis you can get in the game. Pretty damn cool
Oh yeah, the "job cast" roll call and music is great. That's one of those tracks that could have maybe gone somewhere else in the game, but ended up as a "blink/hit start and you missed it" overlooked song. Great use of the French Horn sound too with that track.
34:05 That spot's somewhat commonly referred to as the "solar plexus." Mike's description of it was spot-on. For reference, imagine taking one deep breath, & then trying to exhale for at least a minute. With basically all the air you have exit your body at once, you can go weak in an instant, but yes, not necessarily "unconscious." The solar plexus is supposed to be a very difficult target in martial arts that requires a good amount of time to concentrate & aim for before striking (although it accidentally being hit in contact-sports can be fairly common). Mayhaps this technique being used so swiftly by Delita (& a few other times) is supposed to emphasize that he's "highly trained" & not just some random brigand.
40:24 Translation comment. The phrase “many heroes and wizards came out of there” is「輩出した」and should be something like “emerged from that (situation in Ivalice)” or "were born due to that", so the civil unrest in Ivalice led to the emergence of many wizards and fighters and such, and Gariland was not an exception.
Thanks a bazillion for these in depth reviews. I definitely learn lots. But maybe more significant is you are somehow shining a light back on something from my youth which was very meaningful for me at the time and validating it as so much more than I understood it to be back then.
I still remember playing this game in high school and rewatching the cutscenes over and over. Like in Chapter 1 where you rescue Elmdore, or the scene after the dam.
I remember a while back wondering if I could find the plot of FFT in a book format or something, due to how much I love it and wanted to understand absolutely everything about it, eventually I've found your channel and was very glad you were talking about this game in such depth. Your content is fantastic! I'll be looking forward to the next chapters!
First impressions on this replay is just how much Octopath Traveller has this game’s esthetic baked into it’s DNA. Makes me really stoked for Triangle Strategy!
Mike- this week we're jumping straight into the story Mike 90 seconds later- then the nag hammadi library was found... This is absolutely my favorite podcast
While I won’t defend the original’s translation, one thing that I do love unambiguously about the original over the WotL is the sound design. I love the sound effects that they used during the battles and the scripted story sequences; when you compare the sound effects used for the various sword skills or (minor spoilers) demonic transformations between the original and the WotL it’s like night and day. Relatedly, there’s also the issue of slowdown for the WotL that was only addressed by fan-made patches. It just seems typical of SE’s usual standards when it comes to ports.
I think i remember reading in the Japanese version that Delita and Tietra are Ramza’s mother’s sister’s children. So they aren’t nobles but since Balaneth married his second wife, a commoner, for love rather than station, he took them in to make his wife happy
You give Algus's story of his family's fall from grace the brief attention it deserves, but I think it's interesting how it ends up mirroring the themes of the entire story, how the truth is decided by those who survive or retain power, perhaps leaving those deserving of better recognition in the dust.
Playing through the game for the first time along with this podcast series, but I'm familiar with the rest of the mainline Final Fantasy games. Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when Ramza first speaks and says he's no longer a knight but just a sellsword, it felt strikingly similar to when Cloud is first introduced in FF7, and he says he isn't in SOLDIER anymore and is just a mercenary for hire. It's interesting to me that both games came out the same year.
The intro demo cutscene where it shows the job classes still claps to this day. Fire Emblem did the same thing. I guess I really just like showcasing off jobs and classes while epic music plays. Was my absolute favorite to watch as a kid and still is.
I kind of love the PS1 translation. Not because it's any good, I'd say it's a bit better than 7's translation all in all, but I love how blunt it is. It would be genuinely hilarious actually hearing actors speak the dialogue,.
So the move Chant (Wish) is a move that Delita and Ramza can do in their Squire class. As Delita’s class changes to Holy Knight, he still has this move in his move set. The only other people who have this move are Alma and Tietra. Dycedarg (Rune Knight) and Zaalbag (Arc Knight) do not have this ability in their main class. So where did Ramza, Alma, Delita and Teitra get the skill? It’s not specifically a Knight, Squire or Cleric skill. It’s not a skill of House Beoulve because Zaalbag and Dycedarg don’t know it in their Knight class, even though Delita kept it in his Holy Knight class. (Agrias is a Holy Knight and she doesn’t have it either) I suspect Chant (Wish) is a ability from Delita and Teitra’s family, which they taught to their new *siblings* Ramza and Alma. Additionally, Ovelia mentions that she studied with Alma at Orbornne under Simon. The Princess class had Aegis and Dispelna, Alma also has those moves too! They probably both learned it studying at Orbornne (or the Princess taught her) Lastly Alma, like Ramza, can learn Ultima. Zaalbag and Dycedarg cannot, the Assassin’s know it are the assassin’s tied to Ramza and Alma’s mother in someway?
Nice possible theory there at the end. Also like your Wish/Chant inference. I seem to recall being young and going through all special job classes of all special characters that I could that Teta/Tietra couldnt be accessed. Maybe it couldnt in the original but I never tried again in WotL. Is it possible at Fort Zekden?
I am reflecting on this story having just finished and listening to your podcast now. I am struck by some of the powerful quotes particularly noting the final line of chapter 1. "I have lived the only life I had known. But when the pillars of the life came crashing down, I did not stand to watch them fall. I turned and walked away." Part of the reason why it sounds so strong and profound is that it is iambic pentameter, at least the second and third sentences are. Also interesting since all the Lucavi speak in iambic pentameter.
I prefer the WOTL version of FFT. The cutscenes, script, and other added content made FFT nearly a perfect game in my opinion. However, I love all versions of this game. 😍
I like almost everything in the War of the Lions version better, except for the scene with Delita and Ramza sitting on the grassy hill playing the reed flute. The War of the Lions scene is stiffly acted, and voiced, but the original scene gave me the sense that Delita was fighting back tears at his powerlessness, and how Ramza is unable to comfort him. Finally, they take refuge in an old memory of a time past, when their friendship was more important than their stations.
I appreciate your discussion on the two different scripts. I'm playing through WotL version on mobile for the first time and my feeling is that it starts out too "old English-y" to the dialog's detriment. I had a hard time understanding what they were actually saying. I noticed that after the beginning of chapter 2, it doesn't feel that way anymore. The dialog feels more natural and readable. Algus getting punched might be my favorite part in the game. Man he deserves it
Couple of things to announce! 1. We're doing a vote right now on Patreon ($5+ memberships) to vote on the next game! This one will be a one-off, something that can be covered in one episode. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrific is currently winning, and the voting will end on Friday night! We will vote again next week on the game that will follow that one-off podcast. 2. Play up through the end of Chapter 2 for next week!
Do you think the Durai papers included the section where I spent 200 hours grinding the degenerator in the desert so I could have characters with maxed out stats in chapter one?
@@danwallace4745 More like years. I always thought it was funny that you could actually pass enough time in the game for Orinas to wind up in his mid-30s and still have the portrait of an infant, and people are still warring over who gets to be his guardian.
One important note about Ramza that I don't think you guys touched on - his mother, Barbaneth's second wife, was also a commoner. So he and Alma are looked down on by their older brothers as less than noble, or basically as bastards. It's not really mentioned in game, I think you have to go into the character biographies to see it, but it does inform a lot about Ramza's relationship with his brothers, especially Dycedarg.
The conflict between Gustav and Weigraf mirror that of what will be Ramza and Delitas position. Gustav is practical, with an ends directly in mind (gain power) while Weigraf is chivalric in his means, reflecting Ramza. I'm going through this series of YT episodes now, thank you! two years later. Now a new fan.
I read the opening cinematic differently. I took the gem clasped to the warrior's heart equating to the stone. The warrior uses their sword as an extension of the heart. "Spoken from the sword, handed down from the stone..." War is won with the blade but means nothing without the right motivation and internal strength or resolve. I feel it's almost a dig at characters like Delita and Algus. Anyway. My two cents. Love the podcasts, fellas! Looking forward to the next episode
Been awhile since I played, things went by too fast and I ended up at the start of Chapter 3 after a few days of playing. Guess I'll be sitting back for a couple weeks. About name pronunciations. In War of the Lions, a cutscene Delita pronounces Tietra as Tea-tra. For Marquis Ive heard it say both ways. Apparently in British English, the S is more pronounced. In video games I tend to hear pronounced with the stronger emphasis on the S. Anyways, I wish you would have said more about Balbane/Barbaneth's final words to Ramza, it feels like you left the most importance bits out. In short he tells Ramza to honor the Beoulve name, to not tolerate injustice, to be true to his heart, that is the way a Beoulve must be. This is something that really explains Ramza's character, it's a real shame you didn't cover this bit of the convo.
Really enjoying this series so far! Playing FFT on PS1 and keeping ahead of you. Loving that you are largely keeping this spoiler-free for later parts of the story.
Here we go! Thanks for this! I had to hold myself from progressing further in the game 🤣 EDIT: just to add some in after finishing the video. Sprites when done right are just downright gorgeous, and I loved that you mention Suikoden 2 with regards to this (my favorite game of all time btw lol, I would be beyond happy if you'd cover that game in the same format)
about the knockout and lower body hit, it was probably a liver shot. these are dangerous and often frowned on or banned in most physical sports, as your liver actually is not protected fully by your rib cage. Blunt force to the liver can be excruciatingly painful, and an especially effective shot will incapacitate a person instantly. this is because your liver is very important for blood circulation, you effectively increase then decrease blood pressure throughout your body. your body will instantly take over and try to lay down flat so it can have an easy time trying to circulate blood properly again. there is more to it, but this is a VERY easy way to incapacitate (or kill with enough force) someone.
That whole discussion you had on history was really reminiscent of historiography courses and debates I've been in. Critical analysis of sources, multiple perspectives and modification of history for political or religious ideas, you mentioned it all and it seems to be a big part of this game. Fantastic content as always, but this is the first time I might actually play alogside the podcast because it seems so interesting, looking forward to it.
That's one thing I love about Matsuno's worldbuilding. Game designers are all about designing systems, yet when one understands that when imagining a fantasy world you have to also think in systems - History, politics, power games, social classes and the like - and is also in charge of creative direction and the narrative, you get those very well-crafted game worlds that can tackle mature and complex subjects. It's also a sort of spirit of the mid-late 90's of working towards change while nowadays every rebellion story ends up re-instating some sort of status quo, particularly japanese productions; it seems they shy away from developing these ideas full length (recently Persona 5 and Code Vein in particular gave me this kind of aftertaste) .
I remember also being struck by how the game communicates some story elements through combat in the initial battles. We learn that Gafgarion is a rough/bad dude right off the bat through his use of the clearly dark-aligned techniques, Night Sword and Dark Sword.
43:00 "Nothing to report, just a tutorial battle" I died a bit listening to that. I'm surprised it wasn't touched on that a vast number of people don't actually finish the "First fight" due to how freaking hard it can be if you are either 1) Unlucky, or 2) Make a bad move
It was "hard" idk if called hard, but a bit difficult when I was a kid on my first very first run. I think it was unknowing how to focus to counter the potions
@@FedeArgentina it wasn't just the potions. Because the AI is actually pretty smart, and the playing field was legit level (neither side had a stat advantage), your units could get teamed up and picked off easily. Then their chemist has unlimited potions, so they can outlast you quite easily. If you are not familiar with luring enemies and grouping up to kill one at a time, or if the game just felt like you needed to die and gave everyone a zodiac advantage against you, you were done. Mind you, it does play both ways. I've had days where I sneezed and the fight was over. Luck does play a factor in it.
@@KaijinZSurohm wow.. did you feel it? I think we're no-gay soulmates. I wanna be your friend forever... Or.. maybe its just because FFT is not very popular ans ita hard to find other fans :( Anyway, yes, you're right. One time I tested my gf jusy teaching her how to move, attack, the team and what is the objective... ans ofc she lost
I found the most interesting part of this episode is the difference in the text. Wow I did not realize that. Made sense now since the war of the lions it made the story more clear to me after beating it.
Though I do think the script in WotL is a bit too flowery for my taste, I think the language used in Final fantasy XII was spot-on for what ivalice language should be. It has enough flair to be high fantasy and regal without being exhausting to keep up with.
I also believe Vagrant Story and the Tactics Ogre remake are spot with the elevated speech as well. If Alexander O Smith did this translation like he did with the other three, it would've been phenomenal.
I wish there was a middle ground. "Blame yourself or God." is a lot punchier and dramatic than the WOTL translation; "Tis your fate and birth that wrong you, not I."
At 34:30 I think you’re talking about the solar plexus. It’s right below the where the ribcage comes together. It’s the spot when you want to knock the wind out of people even if they have abs.
I had actually just started playing Tactics the week before the podcast and after watching - Mike convinced me to charge up my Vita and play the War of the Lions version. Only a chapter to do over again. You guys are amazing - love the content and analysis.
What impeccable timing for this series to be going on. I finally got around to playing 12 for the first time (currently 150 hours in), but decided to play Tactics again before starting just because why not, so I’ve been in “Ivalice mode” for the past several months.
OH YOU KNOW WHAT, LAST COMMENT I PROMISE, the FFT xenogears easter egg idk if anyone mentioned: If you start a PSOne with Final Fantasy Tactics and get to the start screen, but then change disks and put Xenogears into the tray and press New Game without resetting the console, one of the songs from the Xenogears soundtrack with a vocal and lyrical element that dont' appear in Xenogears itself plays.
Samurai and Ninjas are both job classes in FFT, maybe the Hokuten knights we are just trying to level up so they could unlock the jobs. Sort of like reserving a name in an MMO like ser dragoonstabpoke, but you start as a lancer. Gotta think about the future, man.
Anyone else waiting to replay this on the speculation that a port to modern consoles or remaster is coming soon? I really want to play again for the 5th or 6th time but would prefer to see if they are going to release another version again. For now, this podcast series is holding me over!!
The WOTL script is better BUT it’s a crime that they removed the casting dialogue. Sometimes before casting a skill, the character will have a dialogue box pop up, for example with CURE, right before casting they’ll say: "Life's refreshing breeze, blow in energy! Cure!" Like they’re Cardcaptor Sakura or something, haha
Totally have preferred WotL since it’s release, despite the OG being one of my favorite all time games. The dialogue makes so much more sense, not to mention having more playable characters and classes. I also like the faster summon and spell animations.
Faster animations? Surely I'm not the only one who experiences mega slowdown when executing any action in WotL... I've always regarded that as the only drawback to playing that version. The PS1 version in my experience is much snappier!
I'm pleased to see someone else who thinks that the WOTL script is a lot better than the original. It is much more coherent than the barebones translation of the PSX version, which in turn makes it easier to understand the whole story being told and how they wanted to portray the characters in that world. Also the way they speak, in a more "Shakespearean" way makes the whole story more epic.
Mike, I grew up similarly to you in one regard, reading the King James version of the Bible which was used exclusively in the church I grew up in. Because of that, I've always had an easy time reading Shakespeare, John Donne, and other writers from that time period, and developed a love for that high point in the development of the English language. So I agree completely, I much prefer the WOTL translation
I love the content that you guys put together! Kudos for making these amazing deep dives of our favorite rpgs. FFT was my first rpg and final fantasy and it’s a game I will never forget.
I do prefer the War of the Lions version better for the sake of fitting the world but I don't think there was anything that made more sense to me because of it. Stuff like this always makes me amazed at how oblivious I was growing up though lol. Didn't understand any of Algus' tells on my first play through but they were so obvious on all subsequent ones (played through this at least 3 times, may actually be up to 6). Gafgarion however was not hard for me to understand at all. Might not have understood it as sarcasm specifically but for sure knew that he was getting pissy with Agrias and did not give a shit about the Princess. Story wise I'm really looking forward to seeing what you point out that I never caught at all. Lord knows I never even knew about that Zodiac compatiblity system until your first video. Makes so much sense now XD
Finally getting close to caught up with the podcast again after moving. Finished ME last week. I also prefer the WotL translation, and will be playing that version. I loaded both versions up on my PS TV for some quick comparison before starting and I must say the increased audio quality in the PS1 version is very noticeable. Mostly the sample quality and reverb effects.
For me, the problems with the new translation are that it sounds less crude when it should and also stuff like naming the Knight "title" as 'Ser' instead of the proper 'Sir'. Never understood that decision. As far as I know, it has only been used in GoT and ASoIF and nowhere else... Gafgarion is also a ruthless knight, so his more crude language makes more sense than the flowery language he uses, on par with Agrias who is a holy knight in service of the royalty and Ovelia who is a princess. I agree that it is a better translation overall and by most accounts it is superior. That Delita line, to me, it's way better in the original. The same with the line Olan says when he is caught and denies to be a dog for his enemies (trying to avoid spoilers here) but it's when we see him beaten and with a little blood on his mouth. That moment reads way better, to me, in the original than in the new translation.
With Dukes and Princes: the reason there's so much confusion about this, I would assume, in the translation is that Duke and Prince have historically been roughly equivalent ranks. In Russia for example there was no real distinction between the two - Knyaz is a word which may be translated as either Prince or Duke.Since in modern English we tend to think of a Prince as an heir to a king, it is easier to just keep the titles separate for simplicity, but in terms of general feudal hierarchies, it is possible for all parties involved to be princes haha. Edit: Some more notes. Marquis is pronounced "Markee". you would pronounce Mar-keys if the subject was female (ie Marquise). A lot of people are familiar with the word's pronunciation from talk about the infamous Marquis de Sade about whom the less is said the better. This is a rank below Duke or Prince, it's roughly equivalent to count, although often implying slightly more authority or more martial nature. In English this would be a "marcher count," one given authority over land on the frontiers or near a border with something foreign. In England, in feudal times the border between the English and the Walsh was considered "the marchers" and would have been ruled by someone like a marquis (marquess, or margrave). Limberry seems like an underdeveloped region - desert and marshland - and it's on the far eastern side of Ivalice, with Ordalia just across the bay. It's some smart subtle world-building to have such a region be ruled by a "Marquis" rather than another Duke or Count.
I think it makes sense to use the Western European interpretation of prince vs Duke because that's where all the rest of the games influences are. Unless there's something Im missing, there's no parallels or relatinship to fuedal Russia in this game, but it's ladened with it of England and France. Also, princess ovelia exists. It doesn't make sense to equate Larg and Goltana with her status, the whole point of the story is Delita uses her Royal blood to stake a claim to the throne. If Princes don't need to be Royal, Ovelias role in the story doesn't fit in.
In the Japanese script, Larg and Goltana are 爵 (shaku) which is Lord or Duke. Prince (王子, ouji) is a different word. The translation, on that regard, is wrong.
@@EdreesesPieces I'm not defending the original translation as such just that in terms of hierarchy princes and dukes are roughly equivalent in rank. I agree they should be called dukes, and princes and princesses should be called that. Just pointing out some quirks in real world feudal hierarchies that made me not think twice when they were called princes when I first saw them called that. My background is Russian so it made sense to me in those terms.
Somewhere out there is a really cool web someone made of all the characters and a quick one or two "thought/opinion" line for each of the relationships in the web. I just cannot remember where I saw it or who made it. But it helps out a lot after you beat the game or are looking for a second playthrough.
I haven't beaten Tactics in awhile, so I'm playing along with the podcast. There are two things in Chapter I that aren't quite clear to me, but seem interesting to consider. They're both about character motivations and I'm curious what others think: 1) When Zalbaag dropped the hints about the Marquis' location to Ramza and company, was he truly motivated by finding his spy and giving Ramza an opportunity to shine? That would suggest to me that he was unaware of Dycedarg's plot with Larg to abduct the Marquis, otherwise he'd be spoiling their plans. Is that truly the case? 2) Why does Algus/Argath give Ramza the information needed to rescue Tietra from Ziekden Fortress? He thinks Delita (and all commoners, including Tietra) is beneath notice and that Ramza is a fool for expending any effort to help, yet he gives them the information they need to mount a rescue. Algus/Argath is a tool, but this strikes me as a humanizing moment for him. Ramza has cast him out, he vehemently disagrees with Ramza's worldview, yet he helps! Do people buy this or am I missing some detail--some way in which Algus/Argath benefits from this? Anyway, loving the podcast. This game is definitely in my top three of all time!
If I remember correctly, later in the game there is discussion between Zalbag and Dycedarg that implies Zalbag knew nothing of Dycedarg's plots... The following battle essentially confirms it.
Re: the PS1 script not having lines as bad as "this guy are sick", I think it's much worse. There's a line near the end of the game that makes absolutely no sense ("Adramelk is caught in the loop.") Plus there's item descriptions that literally get cut off halfway, the Blaze and Glacial guns are labeled backwards, half the ability names are gibberish (e.g. Meatbone Slash, Rapha and Marach's Truth/Untruth names, the word "Breath" is consistently mistranslated as "Bracelet"), propositions are borderline incomprehensible...it's rough.
If I remember correctly, the japanese OG have the same problem related to the guns: Blaze Gun (ブレイズガン) is ice-based and Glacier Gun (グレイシャルガン) is fire-based, so it`s not really a problem of translation there.
I was 11 when I got ff7 and I was taking english lesson (my native language is swedish) and for me ff7 ended up very easy to read/understand back then.
I'm totally with you Mike! Well-written Old English has such a poetry and flow to it; and the Ivalice games always got it spot-on during this era. But I'm also speaking as someone who grew up reading the King James Version of the Bible haha. Awesome podcast as always! =D
I like the original translation for the names pretty much across the board, characters, spells, places, but I'll admit it's probably just that I played that version so much it's hard to keep track of who or what changed to what. But Argath has to be the stupidest sounding name ever, not even that punk deserved the lisp treatment. WotL, however, did a good job at making the story make more sense. A minor gripe of mine is how they seemingly go in and out of an older style of English as if the translators occasionally said, "Oh yeah, we we're supposed do do that! Let's add a few fancy words here and there."
LOL so Tactics is my favorite Final Fantasy and one of my very favorite games of all time. I've completed it multiple times over the past 20 years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen those additional intro movies. "Hey you know how everyone loves to boot PS1 games and then sit watching the static menu for 15 minutes? Well I have this crazy idea...."
Totally enjoying playing along with you guys. I stopped playing mid chapter 2 5 years ago, but with you guys I'm down to finish the game now. I really really like Algus, one of the better introductery villains who sets up the conflict for the entire game. The old english from the WoTL version is way more fun and engages me more than the PS1 version aswell
Easily one of my top 5 favorite games ever! Legendary game, and great video! Also: I'm someone who grew up with the PS1 version and have played and beaten it so many times I've lost count, but I've only played the War of the Lions version like 3 times ever, including revisiting it just this last week, and I 100% agree that War of the Lions definitely is better with the dialogue and just as an overall experience really. Made an already fantastic game even more fantastic. Easy 10/10
I thought Gafgarion's words came through pretty well in the original. Not sure why people didn't get it. EDIT: Regarding "Hokuten"........ All according to Keikaku.
I'm surprised you didnt talk about "l i t t l e m o n e y". also no mention of the choice youre given when you save algus and how if you choose to just wipe out the enemies you get a permanent brave bonus and also delita chides you for not being honorable and saving algus and says he will do it him self. If you choose to save algus, you dont get the bonus and the fight is harder since if he gets knocked out you lose. as for the translations differences, I would have prefered the new translation be in the style of the ps1 version as I dont really care for that "shakespearien" version so much. but the ps1 did have a lot of messed up text (likely due to "l i t t l e m o n e y") so yea the new translation is better simply by virtue of fixing a lot of the mistakes in the original.
Might be slight spoiler but I believe "the stones" in the opening poem is referring to the Zodiac Stones which play a larger part in the latter portion of the game.
I agree with this, I think the scene at the front is telling the nice version of the zodiac braves story that people in the world know vs how that story actually is and what the stones are actually for.
Fun fact: prince can be used for any male member of the royal family, including cousins. Prince Larg and Goltana is actually correct. They are both princes and dukes. Nobility titles are not mutually exclusive. Someone can be duke of X and also be baron of Y.
FFT intro about the Stones sound a lot like Job Crystals in FFXIV... "A warrior takes sword in hand, clasping a stone to his heart. engraving vanishing memories unto the sword, he places finely honed skills in the stone.Spoken from the sword, handed down from the stone... Now the story can be told." sounds familiar somehow (without making any spoilers)
Really love the discussion here. I know most of this is probably already done and in this episode, you admit that the both are playing the PS1 version for the purposes of this analysis, but now I'm wishing you went the Mass Effect route where each of you play a different version of the game. It's super neat to hear the differences between the PSP and PS1 versions of the game.
The PS version of tactics was the game of my teenage years. It touched me in ways few games have done - some of the most beautiful stuff I ever read in videogames was in it. When I started the PSP version I was so disappointed at the writing that stopped immediately and went back to the old version. Just to clarify, its not that I can't see quality in it, it is because of what tactics story and characters represent to me, personally I just can't deal with it. Even today, knowing about all the mistakes in the translation, its still taboo to me 37:26 is this about the Germonik Scriptures? please talk about it
I can relate to that. The SNES FF6 Version has my favorite scribt of the game, while not being the "most correct" scribt. The Dialogue and characters seem much more fun and engaging in the old version of ff6 imo.
@@Realag666 the SNES version of ff6 is the only one I played (3 times) and I know I would not like a different script of the game, just like you said the old ones are so much fun - Sabin's shenanigans make me laugh to this day
So all this talk about Matsuno made me want ro look through the old Vagrant Story videos on your channel. However I noticed the first look video of Vagrant Story is gone. What happened to it?
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
Two big things to announce!
1. We are currently voting on the next game to cover on the podcast on Patreon/Subscribestar! This time, we're doing a "one-off" podcast, something short that can be covered in a single episode. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice is currently winning. That vote will run through Friday. However, after that poll ends, we will immediately vote on the next big podcast series, which will be "State of the Arc Sequels" podcast (Xenosaga, Nier Automata, Mass Effect 2).
2. Play through the end of Chapter 2 for next time!
Ooooooh thats hard between Nier and ME2!!!! I'd love so much to see you guys cover both of those games!
Imagine how things could have been different if you hadn't gone off to attack the Corpse Brigade just stayed at your post at the castle to protect Alma and Teta.
Such good taste in titles!
I'm pretty sure that most people will vote for yet another ME2 or NierA review even though there's literally no quality Xenosaga content available on this platform
I'd say Vagrant Story is very much a sequel to Tactics. It may not directly follow on from the events of Tactics but it certainly carries on its themes as well as a surprising amount of gameplay and references. Should it not be in the sequels poll? It is set later in the same world at least.
One thing I noticed on my most recent playthrough: the game begins with Ovelia praying for God to help Ivalice. Just a moment later, Ramza Beoulve arrives.
Nice catch. Love that
Also, their *cross* is a large T, just like the T in Tactics.
That T symbolizes the gallows their God was hanged on.
To be fair, so does Delita.
Yeah I love this! Ramza is one of the greatest main characters ever. So righteous!
On that logic Gafgarian also shows up :p... But I get that, good catch!
I have often heard a rumor that the reason the introduction at Gariland in the PSX version spells out the phrase “Little Money” so slowly was the game’s programmers making a jab at Squaresoft for paying them a lot less money than the more famous members on the team. Ironic that such a subtle message would be embedded in a game fundamentally about class divisions.
That's hilarious! My friends and I used to say that phrase slowly and haltingly to each other as an inside joke. Now it's even funnier
It was an overall square was basically broke after dumping money into ffvii and this game was being developed around the same time so the fruits of that labor had yet to come to harvest. This game was made on a very tight budget thus why I'm glad it got the love it deserved with the war of the lions.
In the end, l i t t l e m o n e y , was the root of many problems, both in-game and on-staff. And in general.
I have to say that I love the way you do these podcasts. What it makes them really engaging for me is how some parts of it is information that both of you didn't know or remember that can also be unknow to most viewers, while Casen takes the perspective of someone that haven't beaten the game several times, and Mike the perspective of a fan that played a long time ago and is analyzing it together with Casen. And doing so in parts without spoilers until what was revealed up to that part also makes inviting for newcomers. In that way, several different types of viewers can feel part of the discussion, even if they choose not to comment on the videos, it's brilliant. Just wanted to say that. Peace!
So glad you guys shouted out the amazing sprite animation in this game. I think to this day, no other game done in this style has even come close to being anywhere near as expressive in that department. It's really something special!
I would say Breath of Fire 4 goes above and beyond. FFT is a close second tho!
I’m really glad they went with sprites for the characters and polygon art for the landscapes, instead of the other way around like FFVII; the characters in that game looked terrible
I could be remembering this wrong, but I believe there's a 4th opening "cut scene" if you leave it long enough that shows a trailer esque video of some of the various jobs with synopsis you can get in the game. Pretty damn cool
Yup! And the song that plays with it is fantastic!
there's WHAT now?
Oh yeah, the "job cast" roll call and music is great. That's one of those tracks that could have maybe gone somewhere else in the game, but ended up as a "blink/hit start and you missed it" overlooked song. Great use of the French Horn sound too with that track.
Yeah, it shows some of the jobs and then some of the monster classes
Here it is!: m.ruclips.net/video/cbm2aOS2Vec/видео.html
34:05 That spot's somewhat commonly referred to as the "solar plexus." Mike's description of it was spot-on. For reference, imagine taking one deep breath, & then trying to exhale for at least a minute. With basically all the air you have exit your body at once, you can go weak in an instant, but yes, not necessarily "unconscious." The solar plexus is supposed to be a very difficult target in martial arts that requires a good amount of time to concentrate & aim for before striking (although it accidentally being hit in contact-sports can be fairly common).
Mayhaps this technique being used so swiftly by Delita (& a few other times) is supposed to emphasize that he's "highly trained" & not just some random brigand.
40:24 Translation comment.
The phrase “many heroes and wizards came out of there” is「輩出した」and should be something like “emerged from that (situation in Ivalice)” or "were born due to that", so the civil unrest in Ivalice led to the emergence of many wizards and fighters and such, and Gariland was not an exception.
Thanks a bazillion for these in depth reviews. I definitely learn lots. But maybe more significant is you are somehow shining a light back on something from my youth which was very meaningful for me at the time and validating it as so much more than I understood it to be back then.
I still remember playing this game in high school and rewatching the cutscenes over and over. Like in Chapter 1 where you rescue Elmdore, or the scene after the dam.
I remember a while back wondering if I could find the plot of FFT in a book format or something, due to how much I love it and wanted to understand absolutely everything about it, eventually I've found your channel and was very glad you were talking about this game in such depth. Your content is fantastic!
I'll be looking forward to the next chapters!
First impressions on this replay is just how much Octopath Traveller has this game’s esthetic baked into it’s DNA. Makes me really stoked for Triangle Strategy!
Mike- this week we're jumping straight into the story
Mike 90 seconds later- then the nag hammadi library was found...
This is absolutely my favorite podcast
While I won’t defend the original’s translation, one thing that I do love unambiguously about the original over the WotL is the sound design.
I love the sound effects that they used during the battles and the scripted story sequences; when you compare the sound effects used for the various sword skills or (minor spoilers) demonic transformations between the original and the WotL it’s like night and day.
Relatedly, there’s also the issue of slowdown for the WotL that was only addressed by fan-made patches. It just seems typical of SE’s usual standards when it comes to ports.
Hard agree. The sound design and even the music in areas feel off in that version.
The Chrono Trigger re-release on Playstation is also sloppy, it has tons of slowdown.
This is very true. The sound in the PS1 version is much better.
I think i remember reading in the Japanese version that Delita and Tietra are Ramza’s mother’s sister’s children.
So they aren’t nobles but since Balaneth married his second wife, a commoner, for love rather than station, he took them in to make his wife happy
You give Algus's story of his family's fall from grace the brief attention it deserves, but I think it's interesting how it ends up mirroring the themes of the entire story, how the truth is decided by those who survive or retain power, perhaps leaving those deserving of better recognition in the dust.
Playing through the game for the first time along with this podcast series, but I'm familiar with the rest of the mainline Final Fantasy games. Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when Ramza first speaks and says he's no longer a knight but just a sellsword, it felt strikingly similar to when Cloud is first introduced in FF7, and he says he isn't in SOLDIER anymore and is just a mercenary for hire. It's interesting to me that both games came out the same year.
The intro demo cutscene where it shows the job classes still claps to this day.
Fire Emblem did the same thing. I guess I really just like showcasing off jobs and classes while epic music plays.
Was my absolute favorite to watch as a kid and still is.
I kind of love the PS1 translation. Not because it's any good, I'd say it's a bit better than 7's translation all in all, but I love how blunt it is. It would be genuinely hilarious actually hearing actors speak the dialogue,.
Now I kinda want a Backstroke of the West version 😆
So the move Chant (Wish) is a move that Delita and Ramza can do in their Squire class.
As Delita’s class changes to Holy Knight, he still has this move in his move set.
The only other people who have this move are Alma and Tietra.
Dycedarg (Rune Knight) and Zaalbag (Arc Knight) do not have this ability in their main class.
So where did Ramza, Alma, Delita and Teitra get the skill? It’s not specifically a Knight, Squire or Cleric skill. It’s not a skill of House Beoulve because Zaalbag and Dycedarg don’t know it in their Knight class, even though Delita kept it in his Holy Knight class. (Agrias is a Holy Knight and she doesn’t have it either)
I suspect Chant (Wish) is a ability from Delita and Teitra’s family, which they taught to their new *siblings* Ramza and Alma.
Additionally, Ovelia mentions that she studied with Alma at Orbornne under Simon.
The Princess class had Aegis and Dispelna, Alma also has those moves too! They probably both learned it studying at Orbornne (or the Princess taught her)
Lastly Alma, like Ramza, can learn Ultima. Zaalbag and Dycedarg cannot, the Assassin’s know it are the assassin’s tied to Ramza and Alma’s mother in someway?
Nice possible theory there at the end. Also like your Wish/Chant inference. I seem to recall being young and going through all special job classes of all special characters that I could that Teta/Tietra couldnt be accessed. Maybe it couldnt in the original but I never tried again in WotL. Is it possible at Fort Zekden?
I am reflecting on this story having just finished and listening to your podcast now.
I am struck by some of the powerful quotes particularly noting the final line of chapter 1.
"I have lived the only life I had known.
But when the pillars of the life came crashing down, I did not stand to watch them fall.
I turned and walked away."
Part of the reason why it sounds so strong and profound is that it is iambic pentameter, at least the second and third sentences are. Also interesting since all the Lucavi speak in iambic pentameter.
I prefer the WOTL version of FFT. The cutscenes, script, and other added content made FFT nearly a perfect game in my opinion. However, I love all versions of this game. 😍
Pretty much my sentiments exactly.
I said the same thing on the first video
I like almost everything in the War of the Lions version better, except for the scene with Delita and Ramza sitting on the grassy hill playing the reed flute. The War of the Lions scene is stiffly acted, and voiced, but the original scene gave me the sense that Delita was fighting back tears at his powerlessness, and how Ramza is unable to comfort him. Finally, they take refuge in an old memory of a time past, when their friendship was more important than their stations.
Strangely, the mobile version might actually be the best version of all.
@@brianlinden3042 All it needs is controller support. The touch screen is fine, but I prefer making inputs on a controller.
I appreciate your discussion on the two different scripts. I'm playing through WotL version on mobile for the first time and my feeling is that it starts out too "old English-y" to the dialog's detriment. I had a hard time understanding what they were actually saying. I noticed that after the beginning of chapter 2, it doesn't feel that way anymore. The dialog feels more natural and readable.
Algus getting punched might be my favorite part in the game. Man he deserves it
I wish I could sit down with these two on a couch and play through this game together. These podcasts are special.
Couple of things to announce!
1. We're doing a vote right now on Patreon ($5+ memberships) to vote on the next game! This one will be a one-off, something that can be covered in one episode. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrific is currently winning, and the voting will end on Friday night! We will vote again next week on the game that will follow that one-off podcast.
2. Play up through the end of Chapter 2 for next week!
Do you think the Durai papers included the section where I spent 200 hours grinding the degenerator in the desert so I could have characters with maxed out stats in chapter one?
"And lo, Ramza wandered the desert in that time for weeks whilst becoming swole enough to lay low his foes with ease"
@@danwallace4745 More like years. I always thought it was funny that you could actually pass enough time in the game for Orinas to wind up in his mid-30s and still have the portrait of an infant, and people are still warring over who gets to be his guardian.
@@Aogami20 right!!!? That is hilarious in it's own right XD
One important note about Ramza that I don't think you guys touched on - his mother, Barbaneth's second wife, was also a commoner. So he and Alma are looked down on by their older brothers as less than noble, or basically as bastards. It's not really mentioned in game, I think you have to go into the character biographies to see it, but it does inform a lot about Ramza's relationship with his brothers, especially Dycedarg.
The conflict between Gustav and Weigraf mirror that of what will be Ramza and Delitas position. Gustav is practical, with an ends directly in mind (gain power) while Weigraf is chivalric in his means, reflecting Ramza.
I'm going through this series of YT episodes now, thank you! two years later. Now a new fan.
I read the opening cinematic differently.
I took the gem clasped to the warrior's heart equating to the stone. The warrior uses their sword as an extension of the heart. "Spoken from the sword, handed down from the stone..."
War is won with the blade but means nothing without the right motivation and internal strength or resolve. I feel it's almost a dig at characters like Delita and Algus. Anyway. My two cents.
Love the podcasts, fellas! Looking forward to the next episode
Been awhile since I played, things went by too fast and I ended up at the start of Chapter 3 after a few days of playing. Guess I'll be sitting back for a couple weeks. About name pronunciations. In War of the Lions, a cutscene Delita pronounces Tietra as Tea-tra. For Marquis Ive heard it say both ways. Apparently in British English, the S is more pronounced. In video games I tend to hear pronounced with the stronger emphasis on the S.
Anyways, I wish you would have said more about Balbane/Barbaneth's final words to Ramza, it feels like you left the most importance bits out. In short he tells Ramza to honor the Beoulve name, to not tolerate injustice, to be true to his heart, that is the way a Beoulve must be. This is something that really explains Ramza's character, it's a real shame you didn't cover this bit of the convo.
Long time coming, but I finally subscribed on Patreon - my only subscription. You guys are doing amazing work.
That scene between Weigraf & Gustav is so good!
I adore these podcasts so much. I wish one day to see Legend of Dragoon covered
Oh hell yeah. I was waiting for this. Thank you guys as always!
Really enjoying this series so far! Playing FFT on PS1 and keeping ahead of you. Loving that you are largely keeping this spoiler-free for later parts of the story.
Here we go! Thanks for this!
I had to hold myself from progressing further in the game 🤣
EDIT: just to add some in after finishing the video. Sprites when done right are just downright gorgeous, and I loved that you mention Suikoden 2 with regards to this (my favorite game of all time btw lol, I would be beyond happy if you'd cover that game in the same format)
about the knockout and lower body hit, it was probably a liver shot. these are dangerous and often frowned on or banned in most physical sports, as your liver actually is not protected fully by your rib cage. Blunt force to the liver can be excruciatingly painful, and an especially effective shot will incapacitate a person instantly. this is because your liver is very important for blood circulation, you effectively increase then decrease blood pressure throughout your body. your body will instantly take over and try to lay down flat so it can have an easy time trying to circulate blood properly again. there is more to it, but this is a VERY easy way to incapacitate (or kill with enough force) someone.
That whole discussion you had on history was really reminiscent of historiography courses and debates I've been in.
Critical analysis of sources, multiple perspectives and modification of history for political or religious ideas, you mentioned it all and it seems to be a big part of this game.
Fantastic content as always, but this is the first time I might actually play alogside the podcast because it seems so interesting, looking forward to it.
That's one thing I love about Matsuno's worldbuilding. Game designers are all about designing systems, yet when one understands that when imagining a fantasy world you have to also think in systems - History, politics, power games, social classes and the like - and is also in charge of creative direction and the narrative, you get those very well-crafted game worlds that can tackle mature and complex subjects. It's also a sort of spirit of the mid-late 90's of working towards change while nowadays every rebellion story ends up re-instating some sort of status quo, particularly japanese productions; it seems they shy away from developing these ideas full length (recently Persona 5 and Code Vein in particular gave me this kind of aftertaste) .
I remember also being struck by how the game communicates some story elements through combat in the initial battles. We learn that Gafgarion is a rough/bad dude right off the bat through his use of the clearly dark-aligned techniques, Night Sword and Dark Sword.
43:00 "Nothing to report, just a tutorial battle"
I died a bit listening to that.
I'm surprised it wasn't touched on that a vast number of people don't actually finish the "First fight" due to how freaking hard it can be if you are either 1) Unlucky, or 2) Make a bad move
It was "hard" idk if called hard, but a bit difficult when I was a kid on my first very first run.
I think it was unknowing how to focus to counter the potions
@@FedeArgentina it wasn't just the potions.
Because the AI is actually pretty smart, and the playing field was legit level (neither side had a stat advantage), your units could get teamed up and picked off easily.
Then their chemist has unlimited potions, so they can outlast you quite easily.
If you are not familiar with luring enemies and grouping up to kill one at a time, or if the game just felt like you needed to die and gave everyone a zodiac advantage against you, you were done.
Mind you, it does play both ways. I've had days where I sneezed and the fight was over. Luck does play a factor in it.
@@KaijinZSurohm wow.. did you feel it?
I think we're no-gay soulmates. I wanna be your friend forever...
Or.. maybe its just because FFT is not very popular ans ita hard to find other fans :(
Anyway, yes, you're right. One time I tested my gf jusy teaching her how to move, attack, the team and what is the objective... ans ofc she lost
I replay this game every few years ever since I first played it, such a great game.. the GOAT of tactics games
I found the most interesting part of this episode is the difference in the text. Wow I did not realize that. Made sense now since the war of the lions it made the story more clear to me after beating it.
Though I do think the script in WotL is a bit too flowery for my taste, I think the language used in Final fantasy XII was spot-on for what ivalice language should be. It has enough flair to be high fantasy and regal without being exhausting to keep up with.
I also believe Vagrant Story and the Tactics Ogre remake are spot with the elevated speech as well. If Alexander O Smith did this translation like he did with the other three, it would've been phenomenal.
I wish there was a middle ground.
"Blame yourself or God." is a lot punchier and dramatic than the WOTL translation; "Tis your fate and birth that wrong you, not I."
At 34:30 I think you’re talking about the solar plexus. It’s right below the where the ribcage comes together. It’s the spot when you want to knock the wind out of people even if they have abs.
I only played the PSone version as a kid and loved it, but never understood the story completely. So its great to hear the explanations here.
Also I didnt know as a kid if ramza was a girl or a guy, i kept questioning it till the end and after.
I had actually just started playing Tactics the week before the podcast and after watching - Mike convinced me to charge up my Vita and play the War of the Lions version. Only a chapter to do over again. You guys are amazing - love the content and analysis.
What impeccable timing for this series to be going on. I finally got around to playing 12 for the first time (currently 150 hours in), but decided to play Tactics again before starting just because why not, so I’ve been in “Ivalice mode” for the past several months.
OH YOU KNOW WHAT, LAST COMMENT I PROMISE, the FFT xenogears easter egg idk if anyone mentioned:
If you start a PSOne with Final Fantasy Tactics and get to the start screen, but then change disks and put Xenogears into the tray and press New Game without resetting the console, one of the songs from the Xenogears soundtrack with a vocal and lyrical element that dont' appear in Xenogears itself plays.
Samurai and Ninjas are both job classes in FFT, maybe the Hokuten knights we are just trying to level up so they could unlock the jobs. Sort of like reserving a name in an MMO like ser dragoonstabpoke, but you start as a lancer. Gotta think about the future, man.
Ooh, I've been waiting all week for this, thank you so much!
Anyone else waiting to replay this on the speculation that a port to modern consoles or remaster is coming soon? I really want to play again for the 5th or 6th time but would prefer to see if they are going to release another version again. For now, this podcast series is holding me over!!
For next episode, play up to the end of Chapter 2!
The WOTL script is better BUT it’s a crime that they removed the casting dialogue.
Sometimes before casting a skill, the character will have a dialogue box pop up, for example with CURE, right before casting they’ll say:
"Life's refreshing breeze, blow in energy! Cure!"
Like they’re Cardcaptor Sakura or something, haha
Life is short bury statis sword!
Destruction of nature, gather in flames. Fire!
As someone how loves reading and writing, I can't get enough of you guys comparing the merits of the different translations.
I'm also in love with the music
It's so exciting. It's got GREAT stings, the use of drums makes it feel so exciting
My favorite game of all time. I’d love a port to any of the new consoles…any version of FFT
the version on the phone is actually pretty solid and only about 6 dollars. It's the full WOTL game
Totally have preferred WotL since it’s release, despite the OG being one of my favorite all time games. The dialogue makes so much more sense, not to mention having more playable characters and classes. I also like the faster summon and spell animations.
Faster animations? Surely I'm not the only one who experiences mega slowdown when executing any action in WotL... I've always regarded that as the only drawback to playing that version. The PS1 version in my experience is much snappier!
Maybe on emulator? Native psp the magic and summon spells kills the frame rate
I'm pleased to see someone else who thinks that the WOTL script is a lot better than the original. It is much more coherent than the barebones translation of the PSX version, which in turn makes it easier to understand the whole story being told and how they wanted to portray the characters in that world.
Also the way they speak, in a more "Shakespearean" way makes the whole story more epic.
Mike, I grew up similarly to you in one regard, reading the King James version of the Bible which was used exclusively in the church I grew up in. Because of that, I've always had an easy time reading Shakespeare, John Donne, and other writers from that time period, and developed a love for that high point in the development of the English language. So I agree completely, I much prefer the WOTL translation
I love the content that you guys put together! Kudos for making these amazing deep dives of our favorite rpgs. FFT was my first rpg and final fantasy and it’s a game I will never forget.
I do prefer the War of the Lions version better for the sake of fitting the world but I don't think there was anything that made more sense to me because of it. Stuff like this always makes me amazed at how oblivious I was growing up though lol. Didn't understand any of Algus' tells on my first play through but they were so obvious on all subsequent ones (played through this at least 3 times, may actually be up to 6). Gafgarion however was not hard for me to understand at all. Might not have understood it as sarcasm specifically but for sure knew that he was getting pissy with Agrias and did not give a shit about the Princess. Story wise I'm really looking forward to seeing what you point out that I never caught at all. Lord knows I never even knew about that Zodiac compatiblity system until your first video. Makes so much sense now XD
I share your love of 12 as well Casen! It’s my all time favorite final fantasy! Definitely the one I’ve replayed the most other than tactics and 9!
Finally getting close to caught up with the podcast again after moving. Finished ME last week. I also prefer the WotL translation, and will be playing that version. I loaded both versions up on my PS TV for some quick comparison before starting and I must say the increased audio quality in the PS1 version is very noticeable. Mostly the sample quality and reverb effects.
For me, the problems with the new translation are that it sounds less crude when it should and also stuff like naming the Knight "title" as 'Ser' instead of the proper 'Sir'. Never understood that decision. As far as I know, it has only been used in GoT and ASoIF and nowhere else...
Gafgarion is also a ruthless knight, so his more crude language makes more sense than the flowery language he uses, on par with Agrias who is a holy knight in service of the royalty and Ovelia who is a princess.
I agree that it is a better translation overall and by most accounts it is superior.
That Delita line, to me, it's way better in the original. The same with the line Olan says when he is caught and denies to be a dog for his enemies (trying to avoid spoilers here) but it's when we see him beaten and with a little blood on his mouth. That moment reads way better, to me, in the original than in the new translation.
With Dukes and Princes: the reason there's so much confusion about this, I would assume, in the translation is that Duke and Prince have historically been roughly equivalent ranks. In Russia for example there was no real distinction between the two - Knyaz is a word which may be translated as either Prince or Duke.Since in modern English we tend to think of a Prince as an heir to a king, it is easier to just keep the titles separate for simplicity, but in terms of general feudal hierarchies, it is possible for all parties involved to be princes haha.
Edit: Some more notes. Marquis is pronounced "Markee". you would pronounce Mar-keys if the subject was female (ie Marquise). A lot of people are familiar with the word's pronunciation from talk about the infamous Marquis de Sade about whom the less is said the better. This is a rank below Duke or Prince, it's roughly equivalent to count, although often implying slightly more authority or more martial nature. In English this would be a "marcher count," one given authority over land on the frontiers or near a border with something foreign. In England, in feudal times the border between the English and the Walsh was considered "the marchers" and would have been ruled by someone like a marquis (marquess, or margrave). Limberry seems like an underdeveloped region - desert and marshland - and it's on the far eastern side of Ivalice, with Ordalia just across the bay. It's some smart subtle world-building to have such a region be ruled by a "Marquis" rather than another Duke or Count.
I think it makes sense to use the Western European interpretation of prince vs Duke because that's where all the rest of the games influences are. Unless there's something Im missing, there's no parallels or relatinship to fuedal Russia in this game, but it's ladened with it of England and France.
Also, princess ovelia exists. It doesn't make sense to equate Larg and Goltana with her status, the whole point of the story is Delita uses her Royal blood to stake a claim to the throne. If Princes don't need to be Royal, Ovelias role in the story doesn't fit in.
In the Japanese script, Larg and Goltana are 爵 (shaku) which is Lord or Duke. Prince (王子, ouji) is a different word. The translation, on that regard, is wrong.
@@EdreesesPieces I'm not defending the original translation as such just that in terms of hierarchy princes and dukes are roughly equivalent in rank. I agree they should be called dukes, and princes and princesses should be called that. Just pointing out some quirks in real world feudal hierarchies that made me not think twice when they were called princes when I first saw them called that. My background is Russian so it made sense to me in those terms.
@@rerekiki that's cool, I wouldn't have known this.
Absolutely incredible content, both your analysis and the game itself. Thank you
Somewhere out there is a really cool web someone made of all the characters and a quick one or two "thought/opinion" line for each of the relationships in the web. I just cannot remember where I saw it or who made it. But it helps out a lot after you beat the game or are looking for a second playthrough.
I haven't beaten Tactics in awhile, so I'm playing along with the podcast. There are two things in Chapter I that aren't quite clear to me, but seem interesting to consider. They're both about character motivations and I'm curious what others think:
1) When Zalbaag dropped the hints about the Marquis' location to Ramza and company, was he truly motivated by finding his spy and giving Ramza an opportunity to shine? That would suggest to me that he was unaware of Dycedarg's plot with Larg to abduct the Marquis, otherwise he'd be spoiling their plans. Is that truly the case?
2) Why does Algus/Argath give Ramza the information needed to rescue Tietra from Ziekden Fortress? He thinks Delita (and all commoners, including Tietra) is beneath notice and that Ramza is a fool for expending any effort to help, yet he gives them the information they need to mount a rescue. Algus/Argath is a tool, but this strikes me as a humanizing moment for him. Ramza has cast him out, he vehemently disagrees with Ramza's worldview, yet he helps! Do people buy this or am I missing some detail--some way in which Algus/Argath benefits from this?
Anyway, loving the podcast. This game is definitely in my top three of all time!
If I remember correctly, later in the game there is discussion between Zalbag and Dycedarg that implies Zalbag knew nothing of Dycedarg's plots... The following battle essentially confirms it.
Thanks for the clarification on that one!
Awesome episode, can't wait for the next one.
The first two chapters of FFT go so incredibly hard. The density and pace really makes it feel frontloaded in a good way.
Dude you nailed the 90's movie trailer voice over
Re: the PS1 script not having lines as bad as "this guy are sick", I think it's much worse. There's a line near the end of the game that makes absolutely no sense ("Adramelk is caught in the loop.") Plus there's item descriptions that literally get cut off halfway, the Blaze and Glacial guns are labeled backwards, half the ability names are gibberish (e.g. Meatbone Slash, Rapha and Marach's Truth/Untruth names, the word "Breath" is consistently mistranslated as "Bracelet"), propositions are borderline incomprehensible...it's rough.
If I remember correctly, the japanese OG have the same problem related to the guns: Blaze Gun (ブレイズガン) is ice-based and Glacier Gun (グレイシャルガン) is fire-based, so it`s not really a problem of translation there.
I was 11 when I got ff7 and I was taking english lesson (my native language is swedish) and for me ff7 ended up very easy to read/understand back then.
@@rerekiki Interesting! Thanks for pointing that out.
'Blame yourself or God' is abjectly superior.
Forget Game of Groans, adapt THIS to series. Six seasons and a movie. 💪😤👊
I'm totally with you Mike! Well-written Old English has such a poetry and flow to it; and the Ivalice games always got it spot-on during this era. But I'm also speaking as someone who grew up reading the King James Version of the Bible haha. Awesome podcast as always! =D
I like the original translation for the names pretty much across the board, characters, spells, places, but I'll admit it's probably just that I played that version so much it's hard to keep track of who or what changed to what. But Argath has to be the stupidest sounding name ever, not even that punk deserved the lisp treatment. WotL, however, did a good job at making the story make more sense. A minor gripe of mine is how they seemingly go in and out of an older style of English as if the translators occasionally said, "Oh yeah, we we're supposed do do that! Let's add a few fancy words here and there."
LOL so Tactics is my favorite Final Fantasy and one of my very favorite games of all time. I've completed it multiple times over the past 20 years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen those additional intro movies. "Hey you know how everyone loves to boot PS1 games and then sit watching the static menu for 15 minutes? Well I have this crazy idea...."
Totally enjoying playing along with you guys. I stopped playing mid chapter 2 5 years ago, but with you guys I'm down to finish the game now.
I really really like Algus, one of the better introductery villains who sets up the conflict for the entire game.
The old english from the WoTL version is way more fun and engages me more than the PS1 version aswell
After playing this game as a child, my favorite thing to say after doing something terrible was, "Blame yourself or God"
Easily one of my top 5 favorite games ever! Legendary game, and great video!
Also: I'm someone who grew up with the PS1 version and have played and beaten it so many times I've lost count, but I've only played the War of the Lions version like 3 times ever, including revisiting it just this last week, and I 100% agree that War of the Lions definitely is better with the dialogue and just as an overall experience really. Made an already fantastic game even more fantastic. Easy 10/10
I thought Gafgarion's words came through pretty well in the original. Not sure why people didn't get it.
EDIT: Regarding "Hokuten"........ All according to Keikaku.
Thank you for this great analysis of one of my favorite games!
That spot on your body is called the solar plexus, and you can take some damage if struck there
Been waiting on this! Also, I just want the Final Fantasy 1-6 Pixel remasters on the Nintendo switch before Microsoft decides to buy Square Enix next
My absolute favorite game storyline, can't wait for part 3
I'm surprised you didnt talk about "l i t t l e m o n e y".
also no mention of the choice youre given when you save algus and how if you choose to just wipe out the enemies you get a permanent brave bonus and also delita chides you for not being honorable and saving algus and says he will do it him self. If you choose to save algus, you dont get the bonus and the fight is harder since if he gets knocked out you lose.
as for the translations differences, I would have prefered the new translation be in the style of the ps1 version as I dont really care for that "shakespearien" version so much. but the ps1 did have a lot of messed up text (likely due to "l i t t l e m o n e y") so yea the new translation is better simply by virtue of fixing a lot of the mistakes in the original.
Might be slight spoiler but I believe "the stones" in the opening poem is referring to the Zodiac Stones which play a larger part in the latter portion of the game.
I agree with this, I think the scene at the front is telling the nice version of the zodiac braves story that people in the world know vs how that story actually is and what the stones are actually for.
Loving these podcasts!
I‘m currently during reviews myself and I aspire to be able to talk about a single game as much as y‘all do lol
I was waiting impatiently for this episode!
Edit. I think the solar plexus is the area you referred to Mike.
I really wish Matsuno had the opportunity to write and direct a film. It would almost certainly be a modern masterpiece.
Fun fact: prince can be used for any male member of the royal family, including cousins. Prince Larg and Goltana is actually correct. They are both princes and dukes. Nobility titles are not mutually exclusive. Someone can be duke of X and also be baron of Y.
FFT intro about the Stones sound a lot like Job Crystals in FFXIV... "A warrior takes sword in hand, clasping a stone to his heart. engraving vanishing memories unto the sword, he places finely honed skills in the stone.Spoken from the sword, handed down from the stone... Now the story can be told." sounds familiar somehow (without making any spoilers)
Really love the discussion here. I know most of this is probably already done and in this episode, you admit that the both are playing the PS1 version for the purposes of this analysis, but now I'm wishing you went the Mass Effect route where each of you play a different version of the game. It's super neat to hear the differences between the PSP and PS1 versions of the game.
my love for the original script is 100% based on nostalgia lol
Same, obviously the localization team had their struggles. But its impossible for me to like the WOTL script more due to the nostalgia goggles.
I think that's 100% legitimate preference to have for that reason. I prefer the ff6 original script to the GBA version for the same reason.
The PS version of tactics was the game of my teenage years. It touched me in ways few games have done - some of the most beautiful stuff I ever read in videogames was in it. When I started the PSP version I was so disappointed at the writing that stopped immediately and went back to the old version. Just to clarify, its not that I can't see quality in it, it is because of what tactics story and characters represent to me, personally I just can't deal with it. Even today, knowing about all the mistakes in the translation, its still taboo to me
37:26 is this about the Germonik Scriptures? please talk about it
I can relate to that. The SNES FF6 Version has my favorite scribt of the game, while not being the "most correct" scribt. The Dialogue and characters seem much more fun and engaging in the old version of ff6 imo.
@@Realag666 the SNES version of ff6 is the only one I played (3 times) and I know I would not like a different script of the game, just like you said the old ones are so much fun - Sabin's shenanigans make me laugh to this day
@@marcelomcid Kefka complaining about Edgar saying son of a submariner and so on, makes no godamn sense but is hilarious
If you want to play the PSX version but have the War of the Lions translation there is a patch out there that will patch the PSX ISO with that script.
So all this talk about Matsuno made me want ro look through the old Vagrant Story videos on your channel. However I noticed the first look video of Vagrant Story is gone. What happened to it?
I love the Wiegraf-Gustav duel. It's the most realistic sword fight I've ever seen portrayed in media.
There is a fourth FMV at the start that goes over the different jobs and some of the creatures.