Mario Sunshine Review
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- An in-depth review of Super Mario Sunshine for the Gamecube, the second in a series of reviews I'm doing on the Mario games.
Mario 64: • Mario 64 Review
Mario Galaxy: • Mario Galaxy Review
Mario Galaxy 2: • Mario Galaxy 2 Review
Mario 3D World: • Mario 3D World Review
Your critical eye is second to none. You could make me question my own existence.
And I was the 100th comment. I think I'll grab myself a cookie.
felman87
Was it good?
felman87
Where's mine bro?
El Mooo It was like eating nutella without getting fat
***** It...died...Sorry
Ffffffuck.
"It's ironically a game that I love to revisit, but just like going on holiday, it's not long until I want to go home again."
That last point literally summed up this ENTIRE game.
So true. That's why Luigi's Mansion was made :P ;)
Luigi’s Mansion >>>>>Mario Sunshine
22:20 The bizarre grunting noise is from an instrument called a cuíca, a Brazilian drum that has a metal rod attached to the drum membrane that you play by sticking your hand inside and stroking to produce a squeak/grunt (you tune it by putting pressure on the drum membrane with your other hand). Mostly it's used for comedy sound effects, but there's a sampled version in the general midi soundbank that's found its way into some old video game soundtracks (Black Mage Village from FF IX for instance). I guess it sort of fits since it's a tropical instrument.
+Erik Dellblad
Thank you so much for writing this - I've always wondered what that instrument was!
was just about to write something to this effect lol. didn't think anybody else would have thought to correct him on this.
Used to always think this sound was suposed to be a monkey when I'd hear it on keyboard drum patches.
You can hear it in "Double Cherry Pass" from Mario 3D World too.
I think they were inspired by "Masayoshi Takanaka - Brasilian Skies".
22:19 Matthew's review of his roommate having sex in the room next to his. "The bizarre grunting noises can wear out their welcome very quickly."
I think it's pretty funny that Super Mario Sunshine has a more realistic geography than Dark Souls 2
YYYYYYYYUUUUUUP.
~lele darksouls 2 is bad ~~ worst game ever~~~ 3/10 WOULD NEVER PLAY AGAIN
Oh snap!
yeah but in sunshine time and space isnt getting torn a new one
Plus sunshine isn't pure barf
Honestly, I always found the "there's no visual variety in Sunshine" argument pretty shallow. Its as if people jump to that conclusion just because its set on a tropical island. But really, it doesn't hold much ground once you compare the levels. There is no mistaking Bianca Hill's, well, hills, giant wall and windmill with the bustling port and crazy mechanical work of Ricco Harbour. Every level does a great job at distinguishing itself as different locales, but are design in such a brilliant way that it feels like a consistent island and culture.
I think it's a case of whiplash for fans of previous Mario titles. Each game before this was a globe-trotting adventure whereas Sunshine feels a lot more contained in its dedication to its setting. It's a different take and that's why it holds up so well in my opinion. I vastly prefer 64 but Sunshine is quite unique and I appreciate it taking risks with its world design and gameplay.
I think the greatest evidence to support Sunshine being padded is just how many stars involve collecting coins. 24 sprites come from the blue coins, each level has 4 red coin missions, two in the main area, and two more secret red coin missions, 4x7=28, 24+28=52. Add the 7 100 coin missions and we have 59 sprites. This doesn't count the secret levels in Delfino Plaza which require red coin hunts like the Pachinko level. This also doesn't count the sprites dedicated to doing stupid things like pushing giant watermelons and not platforming. This means that we can assume over half of the content in the game is either collecting coins or not platforming. That's pretty ridiculous.
You are wrong. There is not 4 red coin missions in each level.
Also 28 shines from blue coins
@@rngd732 typically 2-3 per level and 24 for blue coins
Collecting coins requires….platforming?
"A rushed game is forever bad"
makes Majora's Mask in 18 months
Or Super Smash Bros Melee
Majora's Mask reused a lot of assets from Ocarina of Time while Super Mario Sunshine had to be created from scratch.
"Acting quickly and rushing are two completely different things"
- Skies of Arcadia
@gibbdude well him and another guy at Nintendo were responsible for the story at least.
Majoras mask wasnt rushed.
About the Yoshi-boat-poison-river-lily-pad-mission:
Instead of the jelly they could've just put another giant pineapple in that pipe on the island like the one that blocks the Sirena Beach pipe. That one you only have to eat ONCE and then it's gone forever. That way you'd still have to take Yoshi to the island but you'd only have to do it once.
They could have also had multiple boats sailing around at different speeds that you have to time your jumps over or something. Even making that boat sailing sequence some sort of platforming challenge would have made it so much less of a ball-ache
The visuals in this game have aged so, so well.
It's a good analysis, but I'm disappointed that you didn't touch on the game's illusion of non-linear progression towards a win condition.
One of Super Mario 64's strengths was the ability to tackle levels in any order you like, obtain stars outside of your main objective, it rewarded exploring and allowed you to progress, opting to skip levels you don't like or skip stars that were too difficult to collect. The very fact that you could outright skip Tick Tock Clock and Rainbow Ride were testament to that.
In Super Mario Sunshine, events occur on the hub world as you collect more shines, and eventually you will have unlocked all of the 7 main stages. Most any player playing for the first time will collect all the shines they can in the pursuit of a final level, unaware of the enigmatic condition for entering such a level: Capturing Shadow Mario in the 7th episode of each of the 7 levels.
There are no other conditions for beating the game, the end result is the 7 of the shines in 7 stages (except for one skippable shine) are completely mandatory, and the rest (which total to 70, including 24 just for blue coins) are actually less than optional, they serve no purpose what-so-ever.
Where the minimum legal condition for beating Super Mario 64 was collecting any 70 stars, only one of which absolutely had to be collected in bob-omb battlefield, Super Mario Sunshine only has a single minimum legal condition for beating it. I can't help but feel this is disingenuous to the player, and acts to limit any sort of strategy or planning in attempting to beat the game as quickly as possible.
The opposite end of this is collecting all 120 of the game's shines. This includes having to collect 240 blue coins scattered throughout the 7 main stages and the hub world for a total of 30 blue coins per area, in effect 3 additional shines per area, but also accounts for an entire 5th of the game's content. The major problem with blue coins aside from being cryptically hidden in a "spray at random" fashion is that they disappear and reappear between episodes with no indication of which episode you need to be scouring blue coins for. If it weren't already insulting enough that these Tanooki were holding 24 shine sprites hostage which are established as vital for the well-being of Isle Delfino, the reward for finding them all is actually downright insulting, a mere change of ending screen picture that manages to be worse than Il Piantissimo looking at Shadow Mario's paintbrush. This is in contrast to Super Mario 64's special triple jump technique, a surprise visit from Yoshi and acknowledgement of your accomplishment from Bowser, and then later Super Mario Galaxy's surprise of a Luigi mode and Super Mario Galaxy 2's final extra challenging stage.
I think he might cover that in galaxy which went even further into linearity, or the end video summarizing each game (hopefully he makes it). The fact that you can skip around levels AND each level's missions is , and the level designs lend itself to that. For Sunshine and galaxy, the levels start changing for each mission too, forcing you into only getting that star no matter what. The "expansive level" turns into little more than a linear obstacle course with one path. In 64, you could be heading for one mission, but then change your mind halfway through if you so feel like it.
"Super Mario Sunshine" is a game I enjoy conceptually - I love the Fludd mechanic, setting, and aesthetics. That said, I don't enjoy playing it - the sensitive movement, boring level design, and broken structure make it a chore to experience. Even as a kid, I found "Super Mario 64" to be the better game, and replaying both has only highlighted its predecessor's superior and tighter, more efficient and intuitive game design.
You fucking Matthew! I'm getting tired of this shit! Everytime I'm going to sleep like "Yeah, it's getting pretty late, I should go sleep." And what do I see?
Your fucking awesome 30+min review of one of my favorite games! Now I can't sleep!
PS. I love you man :3
Did you delay that text about delaying games on purpose? 25:56
Oh you...
Speaking of delay.. ... Nah, you probably get enough messages about that already.
So I'll just say this instead: Ponies use glue in Equestria. The glue type that is made of animal bones. Have fun with that thought.
Arexion5293 Good thing they're not real then
At first I thought he messed up the video-editing, but given the fact that Matthew always includes subtleties like that (see 29:16 and all the time before that, where he constantly talks about the game only having 7 stages and then trying to get a 777 at the slot-machine), I wouldn't be surprised.
MrFoxInc There's also that tight-rope walking moment.
he also had 77 coins
5:00 Nailed it lol, that's exactly how it now works on the switch. I'm rewatching all his Mario vids because of the 3d all stars release! They really are a timeless collection of game analysis. I already know I'll be marathoning his Zelda and MGS stuff again, next
Damn, the water still looks awesome.
23:39
You don't need to throw the fruit into the basket. You can just stand over it and drop them in.
+Ben - Definitive Dubs hahaha
No one would know this on their first playthough of this.
Why not? It's common sense. Throwing the fruit was too hard, so on my first playthrough I attempted to stand on the basket and just drop them in. And it worked.
Ben - Definitive Dubs In a game that requires running, jumping, and making use of the game's physics in order to get around the hub world faster, it's a common mistake to believe throwing fruit was a requirement. Fruits aren't really used(aside from Yoshi's) as much if your goal is to only clear the game.
I definitely never tried that, but cool to know. I think some people that fail to do something in a game that they see can be done take it as a challenge to do it that way, even if they don't realize it in the moment. I know I've accidentally done things the difficult way without realizing there was an easier way until later!
These reviews are simply wonderful.
Headox
@@GA-od1fv Hey, dox
i know Im asking the wrong place but does any of you know a tool to log back into an instagram account?
I was stupid forgot my login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Jeffery Julio instablaster =)
@Jamison Jude I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and Im in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Great to hear a working class Dublin accent on youtube, especially one that voices such well informed analyses.
Man FUCK the lilypad level
Ha 😹👌🏽
+firmlygraspi1 it's really not that bad. If you miss up before the first 4, just get the extra life (which is pretty easy) and jump into the water.
Just imagine the secret levels in the cave as an LSD trip in a cave.
Something interesting to note, there were MANY more stages originally planned. Still existing in the game's code, there are dialogue trees for the "Delfino Express", a quick travel-esque train that would bring you from stage to stage, and there were several more stages listed in the intended train stations. Tickets would have been purchased with "Sol Coins", which can actually be seen in the early spaceworld 2001 demo video.
I'm surprised you didn't highlight Shadow Mario very much, and how unlike 64 where you need at least 70 Power Stars to reach the final battle with Bowser, but which star you get was completely irrelevant, whereas here you have to beat Episode 7 of every world. Furthermore, I'm surprised you didn't point out the inconsistency between Shadow Mario being damaged by spraying him with water, but being perfectly fine when swimming through water, when you made it a point to highlight the conflicting time travel logic in your Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword reviews.
In regards to Shadow Mario's damage intake, I'm guessing the reason he gets damaged by FLUDD is due to the force of the spray, rather than the fact it's water.
I loved being gated by star counts in Mario 64; and in fact, it was something I enjoyed in Banjo-Kazooie as well. I appreciated having lots of options and being able to choose what I wanted to tackle while still being restricted enough that I'd have to face challenges too.
***** They're also not made of paint
I think for Mario games, compared to his Zelda reviews, he focuses FAR more on the gameplay and less about nitpicking nonsensical details unless they personally stick out for him (like the criticism of realistic main courses being inexplicably connected to surreal secret courses)
That was the worst part of this game. I hated having to get each damn star in order, it completely missed the freedom 64 offered.
"...infact it's the most polished, half finished game ever made."
Well that Crown goes now sadly to MGS5!
+ZockerKauz At least both of these games are awesome while not being full
Or Devil May Cry 4.
DMC4
Xenogears ^^
@Joshua Suh A lot of effort was put in Xenogears. The story was very complex, the locations were full of details, etc. Sadly, they cut a lot of stuff from the second half of the game. It turned from a JRPG to a text adventure :/
SMS is the MGS2 of 3D Mario games. Hated and misunderstood when it first released because it was a departure from the highly regarded first game in the "new" series, but in retrospective was one of the most ambitious and thoughtful titles in the series.
Nicolas Liz Lima
Actually, that works really well. It's much better recieved than the previous title, but alot of the nuanced changes were lost and the games were basically apology letters to the more whiny fans for the previous title in the game.
The comparison kinda falls apart though when you realize MGS2's departure was a completely deliberate "fuck you" artistic choice by Kojima, and that the entire game is a commentary on MGS1, fans of MGS1, and the nature of video game sequels, and is thus a brilliant game that has massively influenced future game developers. Sunshine, by contrast, is just a directionless mess of half-formed ideas and unintentionally poor design decisions that make it a mediocre game with very little significance today. They are both definitely departures from what came before, but MGS2 is the only one that's actually, "misunderstood." The people who dislike Sunshine understand perfectly well what the game is, it's not a matter of misunderstanding. It's just not a particularly great game.
You trying the throw the fruit into that basket made me laugh as you didn't just drop the fruit in by standing on the edge of the basket and hitting (B). Sunshine is still my favorite game of all time.
I just noticed something Matthew..you didn't mention the coins and, rarely, stars hidden in birds~
Why would he
I recall loving this game because I didn't play it in a completionist way.Because I think its the best mario control scheme, but the most time wasting game too.
Hey it's my favorite 3d Mario game! Let's see how this game holds up to Matthew's investigatory abilities.
EDIT: After watching I'd say he did the game justice. He nailed all the issues and also highlighted all the places where the game shines. Great review as always Matthew.
Looking back on this video, it's impressive to see how Mario Odyssey addressed a lot of these shortcomings.
V similar to his Skyward Sword review with how much Breath of the Wild addressed
BOTW is more like Wind Waker because of the cell shaded art style, exploring a big open world, return of the Rito and Koroks, having more of a lighthearted simplistic story etc. However BOTW did take some gameplay elements from Skyward Sword such as the glider, Fi’s cameo, stamina meter, etc. Now that I think of it, BOTW feels like a combination of Wind Waker and Skyward Sword, which were two of the most controversial Zelda games.
25:00 why don't more publishers embrace the quote? That quote is at its most relevant now.
+Josh d (Drush) The ability to patch games after launch has made publishers frighteningly lazy and sloppy.
I know and that's what I hate. I'd rather have it good than out fast. Many times when a game is delay, nod my head and say good.Michael Kemel
+Josh d (Drush) not always, I'm more inclined to question the initial reveal if a game is delayed. I often feel games like Uncharted four and Zelda U were announced way to early, same goes for star fox zero which was..... Below average
+Michael Kemel And then there are games like Duke Nukem Forever and Too Human.
artman40 In those cases, I think there may simply be a point in a game's development when you have to cut your losses and realize you may never get the game in any acceptable condition.
I'd love to watch Matt's take on the Sonic franchise, especially considering how far it's fallen. He'd have months of material to work with.
I did an analysis of Sonic 1, but after discovering Matt's channel, I feel like I should just step down and let him take over considering how much more qualified he is.
BisonAffinity Lol sorry to get under your skin man. Was just trying to start a conversation. I don't need to promote myself.
No! Continue making the Sonic videos. I'll watch both his and your videos. :D
I'm in the same boat as Garrett. At best the Sonic games were about two things, speed and exploration, and they've always been absolutely horrible at marrying those two things. You wanna run fast because it's fun and enjoyable, but running fast leaves you moving far too fast to react and make meaningful decisions based on the multiple paths (of course, unless you're already well versed in the map) available. You know, if early sonic games de-centered sonic when you started to run and pushed him into the opposite corner of whichever way you were headed on the screen I think it would've all worked much better.
Even if you don't give a shit about exploration (and I don't in sonic games, as the incentive was too low for me), speed is still heavily punished as soon as the second world in all of the early games. You run into hazardous shit unless you know it's coming up. That's shitty design for a series that really wants you to enjoy running around.
Sonic in it's PRIME was (in my oh so humble opinion) some excellent art direction/aesthetics, and fun sounding (but ultimately half assed) gameplay concepts that made a generation of kids fall in love with mediocrity.
Full disclosure, I grew up a Nintendo kid. But believe me, I tried to love Sega. So hard. But their 8 to 16 bit efforts always felt like the devs thought they were still designing games for arcades, to shake kids down for more quarters through unfair bullshit.
If everybody stopped doing what they want to do because they found someone who does it better, nobody would have ever accomplished something.
AgentNein
When I was a kid I had to choose between a Mega Drive and a Super Nintendo for Christmas, and I tried both Mario and Sonic to make my decision. I found Mario to be boring and unlikable, but most of all, it had shit controls that made him slide everywhere. Sonic on the other hand behaved just how I expected him to, and that made it so much more enjoyable to play. I had no previous bias, my previous gaming experience was an 8 bit computer where I had to load a cassette tape everytime I wanted to play and then deal with a terrible joystick that made everything a chore to play. It's because I'd had to deal with that mediocrity that I wasn't going to accept anything less than perfection, which Sonic 1 was very close to being. So you are completely full of shit with your nonsense that Sonic made us "fall in love with mediocrity".
At 1:49, I just noticed that FLUDD shows footage of Mario's accomplishment from the previous game (defeating Bowser), establishing an immediately understandable connection between 64 and Sunshine.
It also shows that Mario 3 is in fact NOT a play and Miyamoto was just joking when he said that (Just like when he said he was Bowser Jr.'s mother.) Just like the first three Paper Mario games are not a storybook and are the real Mario shown in this game going on adventures in other lands in the real world Mario universe and that the newer games are wrong.
Miyamoto: "A delayed game is eventually good."
Duke Nukem Forever: "Hold my beer."
Maybe it couldve been better if it was released in 2021
I know it's a joke but DNF wasn't really "delayed", development had to be restarted several times, so...uh...don't restart development, I guess?
*Looks at Metroid Prime 4*
@@Melkac
Yeeeah, but you can't compare Nintendo to Gearbox when it comes to handling speedbumps. Even putting aside Nintendo's proven ability to direct and develop, they can also afford to dump out a whole project and start over as many times as necessary without sweating. It's safe to assume Gearbox's finances and morale took big hits with every wasted day on Nukem.
@@Graphomite Fair.
Sunshine is one of my favorite games of all time because the controls and the details are just so good, but even then, I recognize all of these criticisms and you're very right about them. Something I noticed is that some of the most egregious examples of filler, non-platforming stars are delegated to Episode 8 in a stage, which means it's not required to complete the game. The Watermelon Festival and Yoshi's Fruit Adventure are both Episode 8 stars, so you can safely skip them. That doesn't excuse them entirely, but it's good that they are at least optional.
***** Yup. You have to complete Episode 7 of every stage to open Corona Mountain, and The Watermelon Festival was Episode 8. That means all the 100 coin stars and blue coins aren't required, either.
I see it as like skyward sword good overall but pretty flawed
@@Jdudec367 it’s way better than skyward sword because skyward sword goes on and on and on. Sunshine actually has plenty of fun and exciting for the most part and at some cases better than Mario 64 with how good the GameCube controller is with is. It’s just the post game stuff is not the best or rewarding.
The flaws are minor at most.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Skyward sword is also pretty fun. Sunshine? People cmplain about how you need to get through all of the chapters and shines to progress. Skyward sword is better then TP in some ways like story and combat but that doesn't mean it's the better game overall. Minor at best? I dunno...I've also seen some say the difficulty spikes can get unfair. Skyward sword isn't even the worst 3d zelda as that would likely be wind waker.
@@Jdudec367 as someone whose played both. Sunshine is amazing and great but like I said, having to collect ALL the sunshines to 100% is a chore but running through for the main story is amazing time. Not the biggest fan of motion control so skyward sword doesn’t please me that much and no one in HELL is wind waker is wind waker the worst one. It’s considered one of the best 3D Zelda games out there and a unique take in the series that spawned other games.
No way in hell is it the “worst”.
Debating on who better: TP or Skyward is debatable (mainly in terms of story) sure but I’d say TP is just more fun to play with a standard GameCube controller while has cooler characters like midna.
i just... how can you say theres lack of visual variety and that every level follows the same laid back tropical theme, while simultaneously playing the footage of the *electric ghost manta ray which spews corrosive blue acid everywhere*
I feel you matt, getting headaches when playing a game. That's how I felt after I played sonic boom wii u. Too bad it didn't kill me.
I think your head ache was caused by horrid dialog and shitty voice acting... :^)
That sexy Dante avatar ...
That's what you get for buying a Sawnik game.
IRRELEVANT 4 LIFE Thankfully I didn't buy it.
You should of played Sonic Colours instead, it is a hell of a lot better.
The complaint about the music especially in regards to the frantic track seems a bit strange. Remember how all of the stages in the top part of the castle in Super Mario 64 as well as most of the special stages all had the same frantic background music? Now that was truly awful.
Thankyou!! FINALLY! Iv'e been checking nearly daily for a MONTH waiting for your next video! I stopped checking about a week or so ago cause I would be disappointed... but I checked today (coincidental, wow) and with my had on chest I just took a huge sigh of relief/happiness, as though I had just found my lost wallet.
christ, I thought you weren't going to post. Please upload sooner, your vids are so great! I was one of your first subbers & you're still my fave person on my huge sub list. You're so knowledgable! how the heck do you know all this stuff? art design, technicals... What is your job / what did you study? I even learn things about art by listening sometimes. You are great at tracking story too.
Thanks for never yelling into the mic, either. Please do Final Fantasy, Skyrim, Witcher, and Dragon age above all. Please please please!!!! thanks Matt
I'd love for him to upload sooner too, but it can't be easy playing the entirety of the game (I'm assuming he played to 100% completion because he criticized areas required for it), writing the review and then editing it. Assuming he also has a job, this probably eats up a large chunk of his time.
I know... so true. I realised all this but he should still know how much I eagerly await his vids. I said ages ago i'd happily pay $10 a vid, but I guess more people would have to chip in to make it a fulltime job for him haha. I am so curious as to what he does though cause he seems very informed and observant.
Zeldatheism He should set up a patreon account so we could pay him, although I don't think the popularity would be good for him, probably better this way.
yeah, the masses are pretty stupid anyway so thats why theres not many people , or any, who do vids like this. So many stupid vloggers out there who I cannot stand but are inexplicably popular. Ive never even watched pewdiepie or whoever (thanks, 10 year old brother for making me aware? lol) but I'm not typical I guess. I prefer the focused videos if I cant find any good BBC ones I havent already seen (I wont watch anything below 20 minutes) to retarded jokes and bullshit talking. yawn! Matt is good cause hes not typical. He's more niche. haha I think we all share a common trait which is cool, if others dont like it then its probably a good sign.
Do you know where I can find other Analysis of games? its been impossible so far.. the only FF ones I found werent that good..
Nah don't think I've found anything quite like Matt unfortunately.
"...infact it's the most polished, half finished game ever made."
Is Sunshine unfinished though? Unlike Wind Waker, I never felt aspects of Sunshine were unfinished.
21:24 Damn the clown honking at Mario.
xD
25:56 And SEGA still hasn't figured this one out.
Gary
Is the voice acting really that awful? Because honestly everyone here is fine. They sound like a cartoon character and that works fine with Mario. The only voice I would say is annoying is Bowser. Jr but I feel like that was on purpose. He is bowser's son. He should have a snot nose kid voice.
Austin Grider Bowser's voice in this ga me dosen't really match his character imo
Bowser Jr's voice was good. It was Bowser's that was bad.
5:06 I guess Nintendo watches your videos.
Matthew, you are my favorite youtuber. Part of me wishes you would put out more videos but I understand the amount of effort that must go into each one of your amazing videos must be tremendous and I can't imagine you to be the kind of person who would put quantity over quality.
7.8/10
too much water
*We have no information regarding botw 2, but we're releasing skyward sword HD and splatoon 3*
31:25 "A very nintendo solution to a serious problem."
This is by far the best review for a video game I have ever seen in my life. You pay extremely close attention to all the details, and explain both the positive and negatives in great depth. It also finally explained why I liked this game so much while others hated it. Atmosphere in a game is very important to me, and it's because of this game's focus on building a consistent world that makes me enjoy it so much.
So far, I've only seen your Zelda reviews and the first half of this Mario set, but it didn't take long for me to say you are AMAZING at taking a game and looking at what it does both holistically and on a case-by-case basis. If you've heard of them, I'd say you're like Extra Credits, but study a single game in depth rather than a single idea broadly.
I really like this content, and I'm looking forward to continuing this series and any more that you might have.
I feel you are reviewing this game with a "sequel to SM64" mindset rather than a palette cleanser after 15 years of Mario being purely about jumping on different coloured blocks. You criticise this game multiple times based on it not focussing enough on platforming, even saying that Gelato beach is the weakest area due to a lack of this being present (I think Sirena Beach has the least amount of platforming, personally). The thing is, all you do in every Mario other game is platform. Platforming is not the only focus of this game and this is clearly intentional with the varied level design and the focus on flood. Personally, I need to be doing a variety of tasks in each level to keep me engaged and see this point as a complete positive.
The criticism of the lack of variety in aesthetics is also slightly unfair one in my opinion. They did an excellent job of varying the environments as much as they could while keeping the tropical theme consistent. I believe this criticism may also come from a place of expecting Sunshine to follow the Mario formula a little too closely. Considering there are many critically acclaimed games set in almost entirely one type of environment, it almost seems like the only way to have satisfied this requirement of yours here would have been to include traditional ice, desert and forest worlds as we've come to expect from Mario.
I agree. I was fascinated with this game as a kid so maybe im biased, but i love it bc its more of an adventure game than other main mario titles. Its not as fast paced, but your actions have to be more intentional than mario 64.
Super Mario Sunshine feels like it had a lot of inspiration from the Banjo Kazooie games. It has less levels while making them bigger, and seems to have a much bigger focus on exploration with the introduction of the blue coins and the increased red coin mission count. I can't say Mario was ever meant for that kind of game play/world building and I'm glad the recent games focus more on individual platforming stages than going down the same hill eight times.
well i guess the padding in this game wasnt padding in the end, seeing as they made an entire game out of the same busywork with odyssey lol
I dunno Matt, Dark Souls' Firelink Shrine hub music was pretty memorable too.
"a delayed game is eventually good"cough cough mighty no 9
Not if the game is mismanaged and not built by proven developers like Nintendo.
*undermines the point of the message
if they delayed it even more it might've been good
Clashman The Third 3 years for 8 months of progress kinda show it wont do much
No Man's Sky
A very nice, analytical video. But I do take issue to what you've said at around 11:30-12:00 about the Yoshi character. Yes, Yoshi is a useful tool within Super Mario World - but between SMW and Sunshine the character DID get fleshed out quite a bit. He and other Yoshis are in lots and lots of other spin-off games as well. Even in SMW, Yoshi was quite the lovable little beast - with cute sound effects, his own little alcove at the beginning of the game, and, well, he's a dinosaur-thing.
He's indeed a useful little guy, but I find it hard to believe that people only originally liked Yoshi because of his usefulness. I mean, while it was certainly advantageous to have a Yoshi in most situations it was also *fun* to have him as well.
Dity you keep saying how Yoshi is useful, like-able, and advantageous but outside of super MARIO world, you haven’t provided any examples on how he’s been useful at all, you just praise the character.
Despite all its flaws, I still like Sunshine better than 64. Partially because I grew up with it, yes, but also partly because I find 64's levels/aesthetics/music pretty bland. I got bored so much more often in 64 than I did in Sunshine.
Granted, I love the Gamecube leagues above the N64. It and the Dreamcast were woefully overlooked.
You don’t need to throw the fruit...
You can just DROP it in the basket.
I can't wait for your Galaxy review. Sunshine felt like it had so many good ideas going for it, but the execution wasn't thought out well. A WiiU HD remaster of it would be great so long as they add in cut content/new content, let you obtain multiple stars in levels, and actually give you something worthwhile for getting a perfect save file (Luigi/Waluigi mode?). Games like Sunshine and Wind Waker, despite their flaws, have been played over and over for their art style and game feel. When I think of the perfect summer game my mind gravitates to Sunshine and then to Wind Waker. And both games are mostly flawed because they didn't provide enough gameplay which seems like something easy to give compared to making a game enjoyable to play - which both games have down in spades. In Wind Waker HD's case they didn't add in the cut dungeons, and they sold it for the same price as a newly released Triple A title... I hope Sunshine doesn't go the same route if we see it on the WiiU in the near future.
Honestly, the reasons why you say mario sunshine is lacking compared to the other games is probably why I like sunshine and NOT the other mario games. I enjoyed the things that sunshine did differently. (To be brutally honest SM64 was not enjoyable at all for me)
Thank you so much for this review. I always felt that there was something wrong with Sunshine that I could never put my finger on and I always really disliked the game, and I was a big fan of the NES Mario games and Mario 64 (I'd unfortunately missed out on the SNES growing up but have since played Super Mario World), so it was very jarring for me to not like a Mario game and not understand why the game felt so off. You managed to hit every nail on the head and put into words what I always felt about the game but could never form into cohesive thoughts. Now I finally understand why I disliked Sunshine so much and why it always felt so weird to me. You're the best, I'm so glad I found your work.
he did not say he disliked the game far from it
@@markandisobel I said I did
@@L33PL4Y sorry i thought you meant that Matthewmatosis did not like the game all the best
One thing that this review didn't mention was how the game handles the enemies, their designs and placements.
i hope you go back to your normal talking speed for the galaxy video. Even though you, as always, raise many good points, its difficult to pay attention when the words come out slower than molasses.
Use the 1.5x speed option. It seems really stupid at first but it's actually really useful for videos like this which are mainly just talking. 1.25x works too.
pseudogenesis Wow, that woks so well. I can't even tell it's artificially sped up. Also 0.5 drunk Matt is great.
English isn't my first language so it actually helps me a lot to understand what he says.
***** In settings where you change the picture quality. The little gear icon.
***** It only has picture? Theres no Speed, Subtitles, or autoplay? Thats odd. Are you on mobile?
You make a lot of excellent points. But I wouldn't go as far to call Mario Sunshine an "unfinished" game. It was very well executed, I think its problem was that it was the first 3D Mario in years and it was coming out on a new system with better specs than the N64. I agree, for completionists the game is a pain in the ass because Blue Coin hunting and finishing every secret area. Although, you kind of admit that if you aren't a completionist then those points don't really matter.
I have always given this game a 9/10 and even after this review I still do. It has problems, but it isn't unfinished. I just think Nintendo had too high of expectations and made something beyond their full comprehension. These mechanics had never been used before so this game was honestly an experiment of the physics the game used and the controls as well as the level design.
Still, though, excellent review. But please don't talk so slowly. It makes me want to sleep.
Really liking this series so far!
I'm curious to hear your opinion on the Galaxies. Galaxy 2 stands as my favorite Mario game of all time; I was never one to worry too much about linearity. The game is very much on rails, but they are interesting and well designed rails.
Sounds like you tried to slow down your voice to hide your accent or something.
Dont do that.
Your voice, much like this review, is perfect.
I always enjoyed Sunshine in short bursts, but could never quite explain why I didnt like the game as much as other people (that too be fair most of grew up with so of course they had a bias but yeah).
This review nails.
Thank you again Matt, cant wait for Galaxy 1 and 2 (AKA best 3D platformers fucking ever)
Why are people banging on about the speed of his voice? I was too busy paying attention to the content to notice.
***** Easy, was just concerned more than anything.
100% of the video is him talking after all, so when it sounds off to the norm, of course we notice.
ProtagonistJake I love the sound of his voice
I actually like the slower voice speed. I have a hard time processing speech, especially in this case when it's about fairly complex video game mechanics.
ProtagonistJake Fair enough, although if I were MatthewMatosis I would be a little confused that someone would suggest I am trying to hide my accent. I dunno, perhaps me being from the UK means I'm fine with regional accents fast or slow (for the most part).
Sunshine is a great game with a great soundtrack (the acapella is great and the music is far from obnoxious).
Imo SMS is a shit game with a god tier soundtrack
I think that while Sunshine controls well, its physics range from acceptable to horrible. The biggest offenders of this are the theme park level and the shine in Gelato Beach where you ride on a giant sand-bird that twists and turns in the sky. There are glaring issues with collision detection, specifically on moving and rotating platforms, and there is a significant disconnect when interacting with other physical objects such as trying to push the giant watermelon around. Despite the addition of the hover nozzle, Mario felt much clumsier to me in Sunshine than he has anywhere else.
Oh yeah, I also have to say that the bonus stage in the Pianta Village level (where NPCs throw you from platform to platform) has to be the WORST, LAZIEST thing to ever appear in a mainstream Mario game. I swallowed it as a kid, but replaying it as an adult it made me stop and think, "Did an intern make this bit???"
Also that sand bird level holy shit kill me
I love the discussion about kicking away a player's crutch at 15:45
Another more recent example of this in gaming is the "Core" level from Celeste. In that game, players have likely been relying on the air dash to correct mistaken jumps the entire game, but in the 8th level of the game, you are only allowed to use the air dash twice per screen. It takes away your biggest crutch and requires you to use the more basic movement mechanics to get through the level. It's extremely engaging.
The difference there is the dash isn't really a dash but a core mechanic of the game. Jumping, while fluid, is not very in depth in Celeste...at least by itself. In sunshine you just hold a button down and steer, hardly a challenge in any meaningful way. The levels in that 8th level are redesigned with that limitation in mind. So its more that your "cool down" time is stretched out, not really "taken away" since you get it back. In sunshine...however...you flat out get your fludd removed for the whole special stage! Its able to be made deliberately more challenging PERCISELY because you don't have a fludd. Making a hard Celeste stage where you have no dash would be technically be possible but kind of uninspired compared to 2D platformers with more pure platforming depth to it. (I'm very aware Celeste has a robust physics system, but that's mainly due to the jump and dash mechanics working in tandem with each other fairly fluidly...)
The voice acting is a symptom of a malignant disease in newer Mario games. People just talk. They shouldn't talk.
Newer Mario games? Apart from Peach's letters and a name or word gasp nobody talks in any new Mario game apart from Sushine.
If you are talking about box texts (like bowser talking before you defeat him), they are there since Mario 64, and nobody complains because they are non intrusive, fast, funny and on to the point.
Talking was only a problem with Sunshine and thank god they got rid of it.
Count how many times you have to advance a text box in Galaxy and Galaxy 2 over the course of the whole game.
There's a lot of pointless talking that is there only for character personality information that could just as easily be delivered using body language and facial expressions.
*****
I dont remember text boxes being any more as intrusive in Galaxy than in 64
Cwestlov That's because you just got used to it.
In Mario 99% of information should be delivered like the Flud prompts. For games with minimalistic stories I'm baffled there's so much talking to random characters.
Tom and Jerry were awesome up until the point there was voice acting in their cartoons.
I really like Mario Sunshine, I think I enjoy it more than 64 but that's another topic... I could agree or disagree with your points but I think you forgot to mention something. To control Mario you have 2 buttons, with A you control Mario's lower body, feet to jump and kick when you are hanging or to perform a wall kick, and with B you control Mario's upper body, his hands to grab, punch or launch himself forward with his arms extended. I've heard people complain about how if you are climbing the wire mesh in Pinna Park if you press B Mario will release himself from it when they expect him to kick, which is a complete missunderstanding on the controls, because it depends if Mario is hanging using his hands (so A, becomes Kick, and B becomes release) or if his is wall climbing with his 4 limbs (so A, becomes jump away from the mesh and B becomes punch). Personally I think this is genious and not many people talk about it.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the main series 2D Mario Games, or 2D Legend of Zelda for that matter. Sonic games would also be interesting, as I've never been a fan but if anyone could convince me they were good games it would be you.
"A delayed game is eventually good but a rushed game is forever bad."
Cyberpunk says hello.
That sentiment could’ve held true if CD Projekt Red didn’t keep promising near impossible design aspects that never made it into the game.
I've always hated when people claim anything that takes time in a game to be "padding it out". I'll give you the boat thing, that was always one of the least enjoyable parts of Sunshine, but the 100 coin shine sending you back to the plaza could've easily just been a different design choice from Mario 64. Just because something in a game takes some time to complete, doesn't mean it was designed that way to waste the player's time to seem like a longer game. These things could've been sped up, and maybe would've been more enjoyable from this, but it doesn't mean there was selfish intent at not doing so.
Having less bottomless pits and less challenging enemies does confuse expectations of what you think is in a Mario game, but as you said for Mario 64, despite having many differences from the previous games, this game still fully feels like a Mario game, at least to me. It's platforming is less of a focus than say Mario World's, but the challenges still exist and are still enjoyable for the most part.
To say this game is half finished is a pretty big exaggeration. If this game was 50% complete, it'd have been the greatest game in history if it hit that 100% mark. The game most likely wasn't entirely finished though, I'll agree with you there, but the same can be said for many other games, depending on how ambitious they were. Even Mario 64 never got all of its intended features in the game, because of technical walls that would've taken too much time trying to get over. Sunshine in my opinion feels like a finished game, because the mechanics feel fully developed, there are no massive and common glitches, and it feels as though it has more than enough content to keep the player satisfied. I'd have definitely enjoyed seeing more worlds to explore though.
This all said, I thoroughly did enjoy your review and agree with many of your other points, just not all of them. Especially the red coin time trials being the pinnacle of good gameplay in Sunshine. I hate time trials.
okay so i bought the damn game. the new Mario 3D All Stars. for NINETY DOLLARS.
and i dunno, man. this game?
. . . it's wack, right? like, it's NOT good.
right? am i so wrong? what's so good about it??
i'll watch and see. but i was BAFFLED as to why anyone'd be fond of it beyond a merely nostalgic thing. *shrug.*
5:05 he predicted mario sunshine in Mario 3D all stars mechanics for fludd
HOL UP so stages aren't allowed to not look like each other??? the soundtrack has to be 100% the same genre??? LMAO that's WACK my brother
THE TIME TRIAL MUSIC AINT ALLOWED TO BE FAST AND CRAZY????? bro............. BEYOND WACK
Dude this guy sucks ass! His complaints don't make a lick of sense
This is a good review! I've always loved this game because of its amazing controls and-like you said, little details and nuances that make it feel so great to play. The music and environment critiques are about the only things that I think are a bit more of your opinion and less brute fact. I adore the tropics, and always the levels always impressed me in their ability to all be tropical locales, and yet look very different from one another. I didn't feel they, or the music, were samey at all-rather, from the calm to the frantic these tunes brought the whole package together for me. Nothing feels quite the same as busting the game open every winter so I can pretend that my house isn't covered in snow but rather in sun.
On the other hand, I agree completely with a lot of your critiques. I don't have a problem with how any of the stages are particularly laid out, save for Hotel Delfino, but a lot of the lategame missions aren't the best. Some are good, but the truth is that, even though the aesthetics and controls make this my favorite 3D Mario game, it's only my favorite throughout the 70-90 shine sprites. Going for 100% completion is a chore. I wish it didn't have to be that way, so I hope if they make a Sunshine HD or Sunshine 2 that they really go through the effort of fixing blue coins, later stages, Yoshi, etc.
You mentioned the stark contrast in visuals and level design between the secret and the main stages. I think a great way this could have been avoided, but retaining the idea of having levels without the FLUDD, would be to add/change levels or specific areas in those levels where your water supply depletes quickly over time or as you use the FLUDD, with no water to replenish it nearby.
This way you would be forced to traverse the level only with Mario's jumping moves and not using the Hover nozzle. It would also add a great gameplay element if you keep the water you currently have in the FLUDD, but it depletes quickly, so you need to save your water supply and have a tradeoff between completing a certain jump quickly and easily and making later areas harder. Examples for areas such as these are hot areas where your water vaporizes, or ice areas where the water tank freezes up and clogs the FLUDD's nozzles; this would provide context and avoid the stark contrast that is currently in the game, while still allowing the game to provide you with more challenging gameplay.
Hot areas in particular could mix it up even further, as the heat would vaporize your water supply and build up pressure in your tank. When you use the FLUDD, it would propel you much further and higher than normal, again providing a fair trade-off between challenging platforming and skipping certain sections, or even reaching secret areas if you manage to keep your full water till the very end.
It's sad to see how much potential there could have been with the game, although I still enjoy it very much for what it is, and keep coming back to the game and binging it for a weekend. It's just a fun game, similar to Wind Waker :)
While i understand his points about how he feels the lack luster platforming of super Mario sunshine i couldn't help but feel it was in some cases a great change of pace for the franchise some of the levels such as the mission to reflect the mirrors to the egg to hatch it on the Gelato beach level were fun to play as it was a fun change or the simple clean the area missions were relaxing and you got the chance to take in the beauty of the game. I feel as though it is better to have less levels but that were also bigger is a better way of saving space and time so long as there was more content and while i can agree that some of the stars made you want to pull your hair out for there many in the 64 version that did the same. It funny you think someone who loves the sonic franchise would love the speed in a game but i felt it complement great for it to be a slower and more relaxing game than a fast movement game.
Great, I've been waiting for this for a while, Super Mario Sunshine is my favorite 3D Mario game.
You are one of the best video game critics on the internet. Your eye for the way design concepts intertwine is amazing, and I have enjoyed every single review you have put out, even when I have not played the games. Your reviews of Metal Gear Solid and The Legend of Zelda franchises are borderline definitive. It will be a long time before other reviewers get close to the work you did on those. Hears to hoping this Mario series turns out just as well. I am subscribing.
Today its a shame that a developer can ship a unfinished game knowing it can be patched up in the future
Personally, I like the music choices.
21:24 But what if I LIKE clowns honking at me? ;P
21:39 Calm? I dunno, sounds pretty energetic and bouncy to me.
21:54 Well, duh. It's a TIME trial. You're supposed to be as quick as possible. So it makes sense to have a very fast-paced song to get you to move!
You say that yourself but then say it's TOO fast, but how fast is too fast? I thought it was perfect. I also like the goofy instrument selection so I guess we can chalk that up to personal taste.
this game had better looking water effects than gears of war 1 & 2
Those are interesting examples. Was there some water marketing for those games? I didn't follow them.
My personal biggest gripe with Sunshine is definitely the blue coins and how unfairly difficult some of them are to find. Out of the four "collectathon" type Mario games, Sunshine is the only one that I have only ever 100% beaten twice (the latter time in very recent years, and using a guide for blue coins from start to finish, even the easy ones, because if you collect them wily-nilly there's no way to go back and check which ones you've already got). Secret Shines like the awful Yoshi boating example highlighted in the video are also pretty unappealing to play again. 64 and the Galaxies though, I can't just beat without collecting every star on a playthrough because almost every course and mission is fun and to play through just to the last boss would be to skip nearly half of them.
I do think Sunshine's biggest accomplishment is for sure the aesthetic though. I'd never want a Mario game so focused on one environmental genre again, but boy just playing it really does feel like you're on holiday, though I'm never sure whether the trade-off of so much realistically constructed course design was worth it.
I never got sunshine for game cube but now looking at some game play and hearing what Matthew is saying it seems like a great game and I wish I had tried it when I was younger. Especially since I loved Mario 64 and galaxy.
well im sure someone has already said this somewhere i cant seem to find but. When you're underwater you can use the first nozzle on F.L.U.D.D. to make your decent faster by aiming it upwards and firing.
I found this out experimenting on my first playthrough years ago.
If only there were more nozzle features that you could switch between without only being able to use them in certain areas.
I don't think that having the boring non-platforming stuff be optional for completionists is really a "silver lining." It just means that, rather than subjecting *every* player to it, the game only forces the mediocre stuff on the people who enjoy the game the most and crave more. That's a horrendous way to treat your most hardcore fans
good point.
great to fall asleep to, your voice is relaxing as fuck
There technically is a long jump when you tap A & B together.
24:10 That stupid boat riding mission was the bane of my existence as a kid,
but there's a glitch where you can get to the island really quickly by walking underwater
Anyone here from GameGrumps?
Yes
Yessir.
MisterTanooki Maybe.
Yup.
MisterTanooki I love your videos :)
You have to call it Critique again since you're so sophisticated and above all else as usual.
I was surprised you spent time criticizing the (largely excellent) swimming controls in SM64, yet there's no mention here of the fact the swimming programming was completely removed in Sunshine, where we're left with a very crude and frustrating method instead. Also I think it's important to note that the base controls and animation in Sunshine are understandably faster than in SM64, but as a trade-off they feel twitchy and more simplified in many regards.
A NEW MAT VIDEO OH BOY
his speaking pattern sounds kind of odd. it seems like he's trying really hard to slow down his pace.
There's plenty of things I like about Sunshine and even think are no short of brilliant, but despite that doesn't forgive it for its faults, in my opinion. The main problem I have with the game is that it has a lot of poorly implemented gimmicks and level design that make a game more infuriating than it needs to be. Challenge is a good thing, but I'd rather have an easy-medium difficulty game with tons of depth and complexity in the gameplay and level design, that to me is why 64 and 3D World shine above the rest.
Also despite being a collect-a-thon, the collectables where the least enjoyable aspect of the game when going for 100%, of course you can always not go for 100% but beating the game feels less satisfying because you haven't fully completed it.
If those where the only issues I'd be fine with it, but the game feel, I feel, was a huge step down from its predecessor with the slower hover nozzle replacing quicker and more satisfying jump techniques, more focus on aiming and shooting, more enemies that make you wait, slower camera controls that sometimes don't even work while moving, lack of coin rows and circles on the field and having to mostly rely on defeating enemies for coins, and level design that doesn't offer good momentum.
Actually in the lilypad level, a way that people found around missing the coins is actually running back up the length of that orange wall. If you have bad balance it's not a good idea, but if you're careful it doesn't take as long as getting back to the level.
That level isn't even that hard lol. Just use fludd and glide above the lilipad as you go past. It was easy enough for 10 year old me, so why are a bunch of full grown adults having so much trouble with it.
I know this is old but I've been binge watching your series and I don't think I've ever seen such a fair analysis of any games ever. You really state what is true about the game, what is good about it and what is bad. Not what you THINK is better and what you would like to see more. And it really shows that you took the time to make sure that everything you said was right and you explored a lot too, and the clips work very well with what you're saying.
It's rare that I watch a video with just clips of the game the person is talking about and no other visuals but you make it work very well :) I've only seen like 6 of these so far and I'm so excited to see more!! I'm just sad I haven't found your channel before, you make some really really good content
You know time's moving too quickly when you feel nostalgic watching a video of Mario Sunshine
Crazy to think it’s been almost a decade since this video came out