Becoming a Museum Ship: The Navy Contract
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Many of our frequently asked questions are about why we, the museum, do things a certain way, and many times the answer is because the Navy told us to do it that way, find all the details of that agreement here.
To follow along with us in the contract:
drive.google.c...
To see USS Iowa's Navy Contract:
www.navsea.nav...
USS Slater: • USS Slater (DE-766)
USCGC Taney: • USCGC Taney - Undocking
Galleys: • Galleys
Cathodic Protection: • Armoring a Battleship:...
Climate Control: • Climate Control on the...
Which Museum Ships Would be Brought Back first? • Which Museum Ships Wou...
To buy your own piece of battleship teak:
www.battleship...
If the Battleship sold T-shirts with “Read the damn form” on them I’d probably buy one.
It's a simple but powerful fact Ryan and the other curators and staff on many of these Museum ships are bound by contractual obligation but again the damn form is what determines what he can and cannot do LOL I think you should get a t-shirt that says that though I'm still in the camp of at least the Missouri should have been repainted back in 2012 when she came out of her yard. To measure 22 she's the most historically significant with the surrender anyway on her upper levels but that being said as far as paint goes it's a texture that's constantly being applied anyway I don't see what the harm would have been
I like the "we won't build another battleship for you if this one sinks, even if it's our fault" clause.
The most important part of the contract: Take good care of that ship!
It is an amusing example of "having your cake and eating it too" for sure. The navy completely washed their hands of any responsibility for the battleship, but they're also like "but you better keep it nice so we can come and take it back whenever we want it" lol...
What's weird is that if it isn't kept nice they'll take it back and scrap it. The USN sounds like it's run by those crazy people in the movies who cry out "if I can have it...NOBODY CAN" right before they do something criminal or stupid.
Its mostly about making sure people are safe. People assume these ships are navy so if people get hurt or the ship looks bad it reflects poorly on the navy
@@BattleshipNewJersey Good point. Now I understand why that's in there. Thanks.
But you can totally by an Army tank, 5 ton truck or even some of the big guns; and paint them with everything they would have had while in service and parade them around your neighborhood all day if you want! Of course, a Navy Vessel is a completely different thing! (being serious)
@@RichardAmmo1 One of the museums I’m friends with got a large number of items including a really big gun from an overseas museum going out of business. They had a Royal witch getting completely demilled small arms through customs but the 100% operational large gun was no issue. Yeah makes sense. Of course getting 105 mm artillery shells isn’t available at Wally World.
Could you imaging saying “they can take my battleship” such a power move. Haha. Love it. Great video.
It never occurred to me that Ryan's office would be on the battleship, but now that I know that, duh, if you're a battleship nerd and you have access to a battleship, OF COURSE that's where you put your office :)
HaHaHaHaHa!! I am not positive, but I do believe they have a least one building on the site; probably where tours start and end, with a bunch of information about the ship that can be read (with pictures) before or after the tour ends. I saw a building close by the ship in a photo he used once. I thing all the offices are on the ship itself.
You all prolly dont give a shit but does anybody know of a method to get back into an instagram account..?
I somehow lost my password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me
@Eliseo Martin instablaster =)
@Anson Gabriel thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Anson Gabriel It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my account!
The contract to receive a battleship is shorter than a mortgage agreement.
I used to work for a commercial leasing company. Our standard office lease was around 25 pages long, not including the appendices.
And requires 1/20 the number of signatures
Correct Aaron the museum pretty Stiffler when it comes to details well all the branches are Air Force is probably second to the Navy in terms of paperwork but I get it logistically it's pretty hefty but it's kind of funny in the video Ryan is saying you know condition versus original materials I mean New Jersey isn't even in her pristine 1980s configuration when she was reactivated you know for example the Radio Room were Admiral Halsey received where is fifth Fleet message as it were.
so I think the agreement has a lot of primary purposes but it also really limits what they can do with the ship and Ryan is just gotten used to it as he sat in the chair all these years I'm of the opinion that as far as paint goes on the exterior of the ship there's no reason they can't restore it to it's World War II appearance I'm out of the opinion that components materials Fabrics shouldn't be changed shouldn't be done away with in favor you know facsimiles as he puts it.
but the paint gets touched up at least on other Museum ships that I'm aware of all the time and then Missouri she did get a Fresh coat of paint during her last major yard at least that's what the staffers told us when we were on board Missouri just a couple of years ago and the paint looked new if it wasn't so hard to tell these days but as they say the devil's in the details
January 27th, 2023, the Nimitz is still in active service. The USN is gonna get every ounce of devotion & service out of that stalwart Lady
"Read the damn form!"
I felt that
Another thought on galley steam. Steam is dangerous if you don't know what your doing and requires specialized personnel to operate. There's quite a liability there. Slater uses their steam kettles but they have a low pressure stand alone steam source since the vessel propulsion is diesel electric
I loved it when you said "It is my battleship." :) .
I loved this one, no idea why but I enjoyed you going into detail and not holding back on your own commentary.
Read the damn form!
I visited New Jersey in 2002 and am glad she is berthed near the yard where she was built. Saw her sister ships Iowa and Wisconsin at the Philadelphia Navy yard before 2000. I was told when visiting Salem that if she activated her radar she would knock all T.V. stations in Boston off the air !
Is it sill analog TV Broadcasting is Boston ?
@@dukenukem8381 i mean if people used Dish or other similar providers probably would have an effect on it ya but i am unsure about cable providers
AFAIK, all broadcast TV in the US is digital only these days.
i mean it would affect cell phones and wifi probably ontop of any dish/satellite receivers
@@dukenukem8381 By the power that those radars could put out, I think that could affect in some sort even civilian cabled signals (generally protected from civilian enviroment interference, not a warship fully beaming its own "military systems")...
... and "digital" does not mean that is not "radio trasmitted", at some point, to be distrupter by such a radar.
It means only that "a variable wave form" (that could occupy a big radio wave frequency) to preserve the fine details of an analog source is changed just to be a bunch of "zero" and "one" (so only then 2 states of information) in a way that the same "band" (wavelenght) used previously by a single "analog transmission" now can accomodate way more informations/different sources.
"Digital" is only a matter of optimizing "data transmission" in a fashionable way that allow "more informations" without "taking more space", mostly.
(In practice, in modern society, rather than create new radiofrequencies, that by power requirements could became a mess and even an hazard, we chosen a digital more compact way to pack more users in the same space, with not so much actual degradation of the quality of the result, if in certain parameter it was not needed)
Interesting reference to the USS Ling and the responsibilities if a hazard to navigation develops. Back in 2008, the Soviet sub, K77, a museum Sub located in Providence, RI completely sank in a storm. About a year later, a US Navy salvage team brought the ship back to the surface. Unfortunately, the damage was extensive by then and she was scrapped sometime later. It was a very unfortunate loss for such a rare/foreign ship. Excellent Video Ryan!
The Navy put the one clause in to prevent Ryan going commerce raiding in the Caribbean. 😎
hahahaha, yeah he cant go all Admiral Hippe on em :P
I really respect your transparency, all of the effort you have put into making these videos, sharing, and preserving history. I grew up in Washington and had the chance to have a tour of the USS Nimitz CVN-68, and USS Missouri BB-63. I know there is a photo of me sitting on one of the massive 16" guns. Pretty sure my dad got kindly reminded by an officer to get me the hell off there since he had to boost me over his head to get on top of it to begin with.
I have to say you remind me of Ray Romano. ;D
I have recently stubbled upon your Battleship New Jersey RUclips channel and have been binge watching ever since much to my wife's delight (a bit of sarcasm inserted). However being a history buff and military brat most of my family served between 20-33yrs in the military (I being the only one medically disqualified from all branches) but went on to design and engineer some for military projects. I am grateful to see a group not only preserving a great icon of military history and the lineage of these ships but also the history of the sailors and personnel that were aboard and their stories for not only myself but my kiddos and future generations learning experiences as one day these icons will be gone. For that thank you for everything your doing.
One final note though I know the USN would not allow the reactivation of the power plant etc. as this video has outline contractually in black and white, But would it not be amazing to take this iconic vessel out and be able to provide one final cruise to the men and women who are still around who set foot on this amazing vessel and have gave it all for the freedoms we have today. I would love to be able to sit with these individuals including your staff to just to say thanks.
Johnny Q! You never lost your sea legs, you just didn't need them. God bless and thank you
"You didn't have anything planned to do tonight did cha"? What is that Ryan humor? Nicely done. :) I visited New Jersey on Memorial day 2015 or 2016 and I was very impressed. I have since seen Wisconsin. I would love to see them all. The Navy should be proud of you and your teams work to keep her up and slowly rebuild her many spaces. I took myself on a tour but after watching your channel would highly recommend a directed tour. Thank you and your crew for all the work you do. My brother in law is a retired master chief and likes the channel too. Tod :)
Is it more odd that the video is Ryan reading a contract or others like me watched/listened to the whole video.
Ryan, how you have grown! You made a very dull subject very interesting,and answered so many questions we all have about these big ladies. Thank you. New Jersey will be the third Iowa I will visit after your embassy in London starts reissuing holiday visas
I laughed when Ryan said that the contract says "Don't tow it around" I pictured his car with a BIG trailer backed into the water as he attempts to load it up!
Could you imagine seeing that for real? He'd take up the entire width of
the street and then some.
Holy cow! I thought the contract would be the size of a phone book.
Right? No mention of weapon systems but don't you DARE fire up the microwave.
I'm surprised it isn't
The Philly area would be one of the last places I would normally think of travelling to. Nothing wrong with it, and in fact my Mom and Dad were married there during WWII. It's just that there are so many other places to go. But Ryan's videos really make me want to see the ship in person. Great job.
Do it! It’s a beautiful ship!
I just find this information absolutely fascinating. Hope they do something similar when the USS Texas returns
We will do lots of updates on Texas once things are figured out with them. If you don't already, follow the Battleship Texas Foundation on Facebook for updates on their progress.
@@BattleshipNewJersey Thanks!
Ryan, it's interesting that you mention the radar. The USS Cobia submarine in Manitowoc, WI has the oldest working radar, but they cannot operate it since it causes issues at O'Hare Airport
"Hey boss, that battleship thing that we're getting rid of, what do you want in the contract?"
"Don't care, we don't have resources to mothball it, make them do it for us. It'll get inspected more often that way. Yadda yadda.. release liability, yadda yadda, make it look good, oh and keep that gally equipment safe."
" What about the parts that make it a machine or war".
" It's Friday and it's 4:00, not my problem anymore, figure it out. The signature stamp is in my desk."
48:30 "Read the damn form" - nearly had me on the floor laughing.
This was a particularly interesting video for me. The situation is obviously entirely different, but I serve on the board of a nonprofit housing cooperative, living in a building of similar age to USS New Jersey, so a lot of your videos give me bizarre reminders of home. Part of my role is going through policies and occasionally contracts, so I had a wonderful time following along with this video.
One question I have, not related to this video, is how secured various places on the ship were during service? You mentioned, I believe in a video on the catacombs, that some sailors may have explored the area. Was there anything stopping sailors poking around various places on their down time (i.e. what areas were kept off limits, were any kept locked, etc), or were sailors generally free to roam the ship?
I can’t speak to the NewJersey specifically, but when I was on active duty, there were always areas on the ships I served where spaces were secured in one way or another, which would prevent access - supply storage, classified or restricted equipment, and so on. Places like the voids, tanks, and New Jersey’s catacombs would have sealed hatches that would prevent entry if it wasn’t routinely needed for access. That still left plenty of spaces a sailor could explore or hide out in, but most of the guys I knew were busy enough or smart enough to stay out of places where their presence wasn’t wanted!
There spaces that you could only enter of authorized. Think classified material. There were spaces that only officers could go, their ward room and what not. There were spaces that if people were working in there, you'll be in the way so get out, like the machine shop. There are spaces that nobody really went in unless needed and there had to be a gas free engineer to certify it was safe before entry, think fuel tanks. Most of the ship is fairly accessible to sailor but its like an office building, many spaces are for that specific person who uses that office and it would be improper to be there on your own, but wander the hallways as you see fit.
@@BattleshipNewJersey Thank you, that makes perfect sense!
@@MrSchnebs Thank you for relating your experience; that seems sensible.
I had an uncle that served on board a fleet tender as an oiler for much of WW2. As an oiler he was supposed to run around the ship maintaining things and wasn't under anyone's supervision for most of the day. He also liked to stay up and play cards all night. He used to talk about how he would report to his superior in the morning, get his list of things to maintain, pencil whip it, and go find somewhere hidden to sleep. He said that ended one day when they were anchored offshore of some tropical island. Seems he'd had a bit too much shore leave, pencil whipped that day's list, and went to snooze in the #2 life boat. Unfortunately, the executive officer happened by and noticed that the #2 lifeboat was snoring. He snapped the cover off, saw my uncle sound asleep on a bed of kapok life vests, snapped the cover back on without saying anything and just walked of. As he was walking off, however, he reached over and flipped the release lever. My uncle woke up about halfway down the side of the ship and had some serious explaining to do! He said after that he was assigned as the bridge talker and got NO downtime whatsoever. He said the worst part, though, was that they decided, quite correctly, that he hadn't been doing his job and therefore much of the equipment on board needed in depth maintenance. So, they canceled shore leave for the entire rest of the crew- except him. That made him REALLY popular with the rest of the crew! He said he might have gone AWOL if he could have figured out how on four square miles of island...
Were the furnishings (blankets, books, ect) on the ship before it became a museum or were those added?
Most of it has been added, some of it was left behind.
Awesome. I requested this video a few months back. I’m glad to see it got made.
Didn't say you couldn't reactivate weapons systems. I remeber hearing when they were raising the barrels on the turrets (may have been another battleship) that they had to do it by hand because the Navy wouldn't let them use the powered elevation equipment.
Apparently i have watched too many of these videos....
but in another video Ryan mentioned that due to the power requirements, the turrets can only be powered up using the ships Turbo Generators. The generators are steam powered and the contract says they cant reactivate the boilers. So its indirectly prohibited.
In the Iowa's contract it does specifically says you cant reactivate weapon systems
Johnny Q my Da was a 7th fleet sailor in WW2 as well. Hand salute sir!
That was pretty cool to see how much, or how little the Navy demands for future care for the ship.
"Appurtenance" is a real word from the Latin appertinere, "to appertain."
Basically it means:
Something subordinate, belonging or accessory to some principal entity; a thing or things that generally accompanies something else.
I was wondering whether anyone would answer this. The word is common in property law (including real estate), but almost never used elsewhere.
I'm pretty sure until only recently the USS Texas was owned by the state of Texas under the states Parks service. Now it's owned by the USS Battleship Texas Foundation.
correct it was handed over effective August 1st 2019 you can find it on their battleship updates section of their battleship texas website
@Christopher Williams not so much State of Texas but Texas Parks & Wildlife Department there is a difference and and operationally BTF is what will be the caretakers which is what truly will keep her afloat
@Christopher Williams appointed or not that doesnt matter the difference is still there in terms of whats on the dotted line and the legal document
A couple of years ago I went for a bike ride from my home in Seattle. I took the ferry over to Bremerton and to my surprise when I rode past the ship yard they had three carriers, a destroyer and a submarine anchored next to the decommissioning docks. I do not know which ships they were but all were very very impressive. The parking lot from which I could take photos and look at the closest one had me only about 100ft from the front of one of the carriers. I got to see a crew of men move a giant piece of equipment out onto the lift for planes, lift it up to the flight deck and move it off. The shere size of these things was way beyond what I had previously imagined. I hope that at least one became a museum but I think they got scrapped. 😥
I had the pleasure of seeing your ship anchored in the same space many many years ago. It is always interesting to go to the shipyard every couple of years to see qhat has left and what has stayed in place. Right now there is only one ship but it is a very big ship that is a multi purpose vessel. It is a landing ship that would have landing craft like hovercraft, AAV or beach landing craft come out if the back. It has a landing pad and hanger on the back for helacopters and VTOL jets. The mid section and front has multiple objects that look to be missle tubes and antiaircraft cannons and guns missing barrels and more armament. The largest armament is a large rotating cannon housing with two barrels that look to be about 12 inches in diameter. Quite an interesting ship.
It would be cool to see the New Jersey painted in a dazzle paint scheme... but she never wore it... plus it would be hard to paint and then paint over. Have you have thought about projecting the WW2 configuration on the side of the ship at night? Or a CG dazzle scheme and then my dream can come true!
if the ship was to revert to the USN....I can imagine the scramble to remove items that were added by the museum
Beside the cost of running it, Ryan said the personnel with the knowledge
to run the ship, in many cases, don't exist.
Removing museum additions would be the least of their concerns
I've heard that it's not uncommon for aircraft donated to museums to have similar clauses relating to the military removing equipment, and they have done so. Wings Over the Rockies has mentioned it before in relation to their collection.
Reactivating the navigation systems is fairly obvious like you said, don't imitate an active Navy ship and don't let somebody not expert with the systems mess with nearby RADAR and radio systems. On the other side with the galleys though, I think, boils down to "don't pressurize these steam systems so you won't blow up some pipe you didn't even realize was there and had a problem with the pressures involved."
Enlightening video, answered a lot of my questions.
"Static!" The Navy is no fun. :) Great video!! Thank you.
Interesting document. I’m somewhat surprised that the contract does not stipulate that the ordnance on the ship be rendered inoperable. Theoretically someone may have a 16” shell in their basement and decide to take their anger out on New York City. I’m being absurd of course, but government agencies like to cover all eventualities real or imagined, and. I would have thought that this requirement would have been stipulated.
This contract sounds like it only covers the ship itself. There's probably more contracts somewhere about the various systems and equipment onboard.
I'm guessing any ordinance on board the ship would have been removed to secure storage when the ship went into mothballs for safety and security reasons, then demilitarized before it ever left the Navy's inventory.
@@MK0272 most of the old ammo for the 16s is stored at crain indiana naval station its my understanding, though they were talking of desposing of it
I wondered about the same thing. It would be easier to get the 5" guns or antiaircraft guns operational. One could do a lot of damage. And, this is not absurd. More than a few years ago a deranged individual stole an army tank and drove it for a couple of hours terrorizing Los Angeles (at least I think it was LA).
Yes and also no. The main batteries are powered by the main steam boilers, thus are covered by the no activating the ships ability to move. Also in the demilitarize process they may of rendered all of the 16's useless? That's one @Battleship New Jersey would have to answer. If you've seen some of their videos they have fired the signaling cannon and the 5in gun! So sweet!
Ryan, I notice that you pronounce your sister ships name as Mizzorah, would that not follow that your ship is New Joysee? Just wondering.
Great information. Loved “armchair curator“!
40:07 based Ryan for pointing this out to people that may not realize
Something to realize with eminent domain. If you drive on most any interstate highway and some smaller roads, you are benefiting from eminent domain.
Great video! Thank you for all the great content. I look forward to every video
So interesting and it answers a lot of questions I had, mainly about what constitutes the museum's "ownership" of the ship if, basically, the government can basically exercise "eminent domain" reacquisition of the ship in a national emergency. I get the whole "but they won't because it's probably not practicable" thing, but still, the weight of "but they COULD" is kind of murky and ominous. I have to figure that if that happened, it'd have to be ONE HELL OF a national emergency, and for as much as former sailors from the ship's history would probably love to see her reactivated into service one more time, I really would rather hope that we never face such an emergency that would require that.
Anyway, thanks for this! Wow.
Ryan thank you for volunteering to do these videos. I love them.
With watching this I'm now wondering what the differences are for ships such as the liberty ships/ victory ships that do operate and sail. Since all of their propulsion machinery is active and running they must be under different contracts/agreements, it would be interesting to know the exact differences. excellent video as always!!!!!
Liberty ships were not navy, so they have dont have the same rules.
@@BattleshipNewJersey It does make sense that the maritime administration regulations would differ, Thanks!!!!
I know you have stated that you are looking at a Yard period sometime down the line ( I think it was in the video where you were talking about the life expectancy in the old stateroom/bunkroom. I guess my question on that would be, is this in the 5-10 year time frame and what is a back of napkin cost of something like that?
This decade and about $20 million
@@BattleshipNewJersey may local Museum ship is the USS Hornet and I can only imagine if you guys are at 20. What Hers would look like.
Yasssss. Another good one coming up!
Excuse me, theres a good one coming up every day, Monday to Friday! But seriously, hope you like this one, it's a little different than our usual fare...
Buffalo, N.Y. Buffalo has 3 ships as Museums I was on the Uss Little Rock 1963-66. The USS Sulvins and the USS Coaker, there at downtown public square.They have parties,and tours of the ships. Also have a ship store on line. Our reunion is August 25-29 2021. Dennis E. McAllister CS-3. USN Syracuse N.Y.
I always thought it would be cool to lease office space in these ships. “Stop by my office, I’ll be the guy straddling one of the 16 inch gun barrels”
That was a smashing burp at 49.40!!
This was good! Real good! If we didn't know before; NOW we know!
I would never claim to be a curator (armchair or not) but what I am is a mechanic/ machinist and half asked fabricator. I am not condoning or suggesting this be done.Although it would surely be cost prohibitive, it to say it couldnt be brought back to its WW2 styling is a VERY BOLD STATEMENT
It has to be a flex to just say "I own a battleship".
So hearing you read this comment makes me wonder something. I live in southern Indiana and down the river from us is Evansville which is the home of LST 325. That ship is a museum ship and its usually in Evansville but it does travel under its osn power. I was working at a stone quarry on the river and it went by one day with no outside assistance. Does the navy own that ship or is it owned by a non profit? Is that a different kind of musesm ship?
I'm glad this means she'll likely always be around to be visited and admired, But its still a little sad she won't be in service riding the waves protecting her people!
Yeah, but she did enough long enough. Let her rest.
@@geofffikar3417 You are very right my friend
Was there ever a follow up video about making a ship museum ready? If not I think that would be an intriguing topic to cover still in the future
There isn't really, but its on the list now!
When do you estimate the ship will need a yard period? Intrepid had one in 2006, Missouri in 2010, Massachusetts in 1998. North Carolina and Alabama had coffer dams built around them for repair. One would assume, New Jersey having the most mileage on her out of all the battleship museum ships (save for Texas) should need repairs in the future.
She will likely go to drydock this decade. Weve already started conversations with the yard but we're looking at a roughly $20million project so we've got some work to do before that happens.
@@BattleshipNewJersey A followup question, and perhaps a video topic. New Jersey obviously has the most mileage on her out of any fast battleship built (US or foreign). Which battleship overall (pre-dread, dread, super-dread) has/had the most mileage? I"m assuming Warspite
Thank you for this video! I love learning details like this.
This was really facinating. Thank you
Great synopsis of the document!
Would it be possible to pop the casing off of the turbine so visitors can see the array of blades like they did with HMS Belfast and one of her turbines? I think that would be really cool to see (of course that does possibly go against one of the clauses in the contract)
We tried and you can't really see anything. We're brainstorming new methods
@@BattleshipNewJersey Good to know
@@BattleshipNewJersey The guts of every steam turbine looks pretty much the same. Maybe you can find one someplace else and display it as an example of the type.
Interesting video. I visited USS Nautilus (SSN-571) operated by the Naval History and Heritage Command which would be unique from contract museums. I also found it interesting that the Navy has no liability for these ships, and that is passed onto the non-profit. I had another question is it common among museums to have volunteers sign "Hold Harmless Agreements," before they can work the vessel? That way they are now responsible.
I recall reading that when the NJ was reactivated in the 80s-90s that equipment was taken off the USS Massachusetts for it.
Hello Ryan! A quick little tidbit for you and your fellow USS New Jersey operators......
In Section L- which you seemed a bit uncertain of- what that sounds like to me is something very similar to what we use very frequently in the restaurant industry, when negotiating a rental agreement for a space we want to locate our restaurant, which is called a “ride-along clause”.
Such a clause states that any future lessee (or in your case, non-profit, etc.) is bound by the same lease agreement and all its clauses by which his/her predecessor(s) were bound.
I’m pretty sure based on the language they used in that section (which, you may note, lawyers make intentionally vague so that only they can understand it, thus “justifying” their breathtakingly, cosmically exorbitant fees....) that that’s what they’re were going for.
So for example, if you are bound by the agreement to (just making something up here) wash and scrub the main deck every 4 to 6 weeks for maintenance purposes, then any future nonprofit that takes over the battleship from you will be similarly obligated to wash the main deck on the same schedule. Or, as another example, if you are required to keep a functioning landline telephone on board to dial 911 in case of emergency, then the next nonprofit or other organization who purchase and take over the ship from you will also be required to maintain a telephone. Etc etc etc, and so on and so forth, in perpetuity, amen.
But yes, I believe that is more or less what’s outlined in your Section L.
By the way- great work on these videos! Your public speaking, presentation and delivery is getting better by leaps and bounds. You are a real pro. I see a possible business model for you and Libby!- touring the country making a series of videos on all the well kept museum ships. Since your technology and and experience are so much greater than those of the other ships, you could provide a quality that they never could without investing a lot of time and money, and you two could make some good $$$ along the way. It’s a win-win for everybody! Just a thought...
And one final note, if I may- I requested a video a long time ago on the comparative differences between WWII naval armor and modern naval armor (or the lack thereof...). If I might take this opportunity to resubmit that request, it’s a topic I am fascinated by and there is a surprising lack of information on the topic available online.
Please could you make such a video! I’m certain I’m not the only one who would be so happy to see yet another well produced video on that topic.
Apart from that, let’s see more videos featuring Libby on screen! The two of you have such great chemistry together. I definitely need more Ryan-Libby duo in my life. :)
Take care! All the best.
-Matt
"appurtenance" is a legalese classic, a real lawyer's favorite. Quite a squirrely term. It could refer to pratically any furnishing, equipment or decoration on the ship ... a term an aggressive litigant could use to be a real PitA!
Ryan, in a previous video you mentioned the navy gave you three days to get spare parts for New Jersey off another ship that was going to be scrapped, but due to weather, you lost a day and couldn't get those parts. Have you been able to go back and get those parts yet? as I recall the scrapper was going to put them aside for you.
Cheers.
We haven't been able to get back on Charleston nor has it been scrapped yet.
What happened to the USS ling in NJ? It sits across from a cement plant in the Hackensack river? I don't think anyone really visited her, more certainly went to White Mana down the street for a hamburger.
She sank, some volunteers raised her. Her fate is still unclear.
@@BattleshipNewJersey Giminy Crickets! Thats wild, that sub was in terrific shape inside, tons of polished brass and crammed with vintage electronics! If I remember correctly there was a 60's era river patrol boat there too. Wikki says she is kinda trapped in a shallow silted up river with 4 bridges now downstream blocking her in! Thank you all for taking such good care of the USS New jersey.
Section 8 a. One possible need for the fleet of pre-atomic museum vessels is the shear tonnage of their metals. Imagine a future yet to be identified requirement that would be of national security needs. The government declares the need and the navy says they are mine!
I was told by a tour guide on the North Carolina that some of the optics were given to the Iowa after the turret incident.
The dazzle paint scheme would look awesome on the N.J.
Appurtenance:
An Accessory or adjunct that is attached and incidental to something that has greater importance or value. As applied to real property, an object attached to or a right to be used with land as an incidental benefit but which is necessary to the complete use and enjoyment of the property.
hi thanks for the videos does the navy still keep stockpiles of ammunition for the 16 inch guns?
Whenever you use an acronym, please break it into the words as well, some are obscure. Great work.
In the uss alabama contract the ship belongs to the state of Alabama and every year on our state taxes we can donate 5 dollars just to the ship and it is also weird that in the contract it states if in a national emergency the ship can be turning back over to the government for recommissioning probably not true but weird that’s in there
On Constellation id be checking diagonal riders and wood frames and ropes and fittings and below the waterline to make sure no marine life had taken up in a dent in the hull..
Its not a weird one on jersey tho the ship itself is a weapon, they don't want you and a skeleton crew taking her for a spin, they know how people who have love for these things are, if you could and had it every system but the guns would work lol. Or they are preventing steam accidents and people dying. If that equipment is radiating you will not want to be near it. Youll feel sicker than you ever felt then five minutes after you get away from it youre fine. Unc told me that too, he helped helped prepare JFK for being a museum ship, he was hull branch CWO, then helped prepare her for ordinary. A good bit of the work was done at mayport. This man has like 12 planks from ships on his wall he was career navy but no ship going bothered him quite as bad as saratoga and kennedy.
Ya..... totally sounds like the Navy wants the vessel in a condition that it could be recalled. Pretty sure they don't want you messing with the galley because if they needed to take the ship back, the 2 things they want to get up and running quickly is the power system and food service. Not that they intend to use it as a battleship, but as a vessel in another capacity
Ryan great video, somehow you made reading a contact interesting 😃.
Question, is there a “pink slip” for the ship? Or is that contract the only paperwork that shows ownership?
I really wonder what that ownership paperwork looks like for a Battleship.
Thanks
I think that the equivalent of "ownership paperwork" for Navy vessels would be the legislation that authorized their construction. Any ship built for the Navy is, by law, the property of the Navy until and unless it is given or sold to another entity. So, this contract, stating that the Department of the Navy gifts the ship to the Homeport Alliance, *is* the pink slip.
You mentioned that other non-profits initially were interested in hosting the battleship. What were some of the other places that looking to host New Jersey?
So I've been wondering for awhile now, and didnt hear any mention of it specifically in the "machinery" reactivation portion. But where does the anchor windlass machinery fall in the "allowed / not allowed" to use / reactivate portion of the ship board equipment? Only asking since the Uss Iowa group specifically say in a recent video that theirs is operable, and I know from watching the tow videos that they did use it.
We don't mess with anything that requires that much power because we don't have steam. Our shore power can't handle it. Nor do we mess with anything that requires hydraulics.
I would think that would be covered under the navigation equipment clause.
I'm really disappointed that no suupercarriers post midway are going to be saved, I'm assuming none of the nuclear carriers can be turned into a museum so it's the end of an era...
It's impractical to turn most large ships (20,000 tons and higher) into museums.
The problem with the nuclear-powered ships is the powerplant. It's deep in the bowels of the ship and multiple decks -- 10+ stories worth in supercarrier cases) have to be cut through. In the process of removing the powerplants, you ruin the hull. The Navy will not pay to rebuild a ship that will never re-enter service.
The Enterprise (CVN-65) is the worst case since it has 8 powerplants and it's known that ship was hotter than normal -- there were definite leaks and it was in service longer than any other nuclear-powered vessel, far past what the US Navy speculated it would last (23-25 years). There were serious consideration to decommissioning the Enterprise in 1989 but it got a reprieve and was overhauled. The main issue with that ship was always the state of its powerplants and how long they could be safely operated and there are stories about that, too. It will probably be the mid-2030s before the Enterprise is disposed of because of the reactor issues and there's already a backlog of ships the Navy wants to dispose.
The USS Nimitz (CVN-68), the second nuclear-powered carrier built is being retired next year. She will not, however, enter recycling until 2025 because they have to defuel her first and assess the process with her. It will hopefully be less complicated and less expensive to recycle and scrap than Enterprise. The disposal of the Enterprise has been a HUGE headache for the Navy. It's probably a good thing the Enterprise is the sole ship of her class. The US Navy originally intended to build 6 carriers of the Enterprise class!
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WIth the USS Nautilus (SSN 571), it was much simpler to convert her into a museum ship since she was smaller than an aircraft carrier and had only the one powerplant. It was easy to cut her hull to remove the reactor and then reweld it.
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A lot of these existing museum ships are in trouble.
They have funding issues for routine maintenance let alone affording to be able to repair these ships!
Some of the private organizations that operate the museum ships can barely afford to keep going.
With a ship that's in huge trouble like the USS Texas, the state hosting the ship sometimes has to step in and provide funding. USS New Jersey gets funding from the State of New Jersey since it's a celebrity and the state ship. I think the New Jersey is safe for now.
The situation gets worse the larger and older a ship is, especially if it's been moored for decades and hasn't had significant maintenance like the Battleship Texas. Texas is over a hundred years and at best her hull is marginal. She's already bulging from what I've heard and is SEVERELY rusted.
The aircraft carrier Yorktown (CV-10) had an engineering assessment a few years back that the Navy required. The Navy was concerned that Patriot Point (the group that oversees Yorktown and other vessels at the memorial site) were not able to care for the old carrier and that the Yorktown was deteriorating terribly. There's been no major work done on Yorktown since she decommissioned in the early 1970s -- no drydocking and major repairs. There was concern that her hull would be compromised and the Navy threatened to repossess the ship in which case it probably would have been scrapped -- and that's happened a few times with smaller vessels but not major capital ships thus far in the US.
The Yorktown passed the engineering review but it was strongly suggested to drydock her in the near future (with 10 years) and do some hullwork. She's not leaking severely and the hull integrity was much better than predicated but she needs a facelift!
By comparison, the USS Intrepid (CV-11) has excellent support and is well-funded. They did a major renovation of that carrier over a decade ago and did repairs in addition to some remodeling to open more spaces of the ship to the public. Of the four Essex-class carriers preserved as museum ships, the Intrepid is probably the least representative of active duty condition because it's been altered so much for museum presentations. It also has, contrary to public perception of its pristine outer hull and fresh paint, significant areas of rust internally from what I've read. The Intrepid may have been in THE WORST CONDITION of the four preserved Essex-class ships when it was retired.
However, the people who run the Intrepid are not going to let it go away any time soon. I think it's seen as a prestige project for NYC and they don't want eggs on their face if the museum fails. A big-time New York developer saved the Intrepid from being scrapped in the 1970s; Intrepid was opened as a museum in 1982(?). Of the four Essex-class museums, Intrepid is the most developed and probably the most impressive museum with all the exhibits and exclusives like a space shuttle on the flight deck! I've also heard it does NOT get enough visitors most years to cover all its costs and that it gets significant financial help from New York City and some high-rollers in the area.
@@AvengerII I agree regarding the problems, I still think one of the super carriers should have been saved while they still could....
Nobody going to get a nuclear ship
The USS John W Brown is a liberty ship in Baltimore. They are completely functional and do day cruises and travel long distances. Do you know what allowed that vs 62?
Liberty ships have whole different rules than navy ships because they weren't navy.
I wonder if your contract is that much different from contracts for older museum ships, i.e. Texas, Alabama, etc.?
Hello Ryan I have a question about the contract you have as well as the other museum ships have. As you said the navy can take the ship back in times of emergency. But could the navy revoke the contract even without an emergency and would they have to tell you if that's the case.
In relation to the fact that the US government can confiscate private property in the event of a national crisis, war, force majeure, etc., I think this is quite common around the world. Here in Norway, in the event of war etc., the government can confiscate, for example, private cars and real estate. It is also not uncommon for local authorities in Norway (in peacetime) to have such strict rules for what you can do on a private property that you can really start to wonder who actually owns the property. In Denmark, you even pay an extra property tax (so-called "land debt") where the state forcibly freezes the tax over several years and will claim the tax (with interest) on the day the property is sold, in other words the state borrows money from you at your expense.
No, you're borrowing from the state. Easy to see by which way the interest payments flow.
What state are the guns in? I would have to think any autocannons are completely demilled, but what about the 5 inch or 16 inch guns?
One could always use a steam generator to power the galley kettles and isolate its supply piping. I'd pay 30 bucks to eat a meal made in the original equipment.
Yeah, but can you imagine the cost of recertifying all those steam lines? And what about the liability if one let loose?
@@MK0272 Seriously though. I wouldn't want to have to write that check lol.
it may not even be possible to get the steam system certified.
As a general rule, military equipment does not undergo civilian inspections. The military frequently has own standards and inspection processes that, while fully adequate or even superior to the civilian standards, may not line up appropriately with the civilian side for the purposes of inspection and certification.
Aircraft are a great example of this, the military operation and maintenance guidelines for their aircraft are not recognized by the FAA, so if a civilian pilot wants to own and operate a military aircraft, someone has to create a compete set of operations manuals for he airframe and get them approved by the FAA
I feel like someone was using a donated ship as a dinner cruise experience that ended as an expensive mistake.
This contract was created to make sure that doesn't happen again.
LST 325 in Evansville, IN was obtained from a private owner. Or it can be used as an artificial reef, like Orinsky. Any word on Enterprise? Could you make the radar antennas if you don't use them as radar?
A museum ship that was taken back from the museum was the USS Oregon museum from 1929-1942, but it was to scrap it and use the materials to build new ships.
Just out of curiosity, what was done to preserve the steam systems on the ship? I wouldn't think they could allow condensate to remain in the lines, but that's a LOT of steam equipment to try to drain and preserve.
It was entirely drained and not much else is told to us about it.
@@BattleshipNewJersey in theory, all lines would have been drained and moisture removed using hot air, then the piping sealed. Any tanks and equipment would have either been dried and sealed or left open for ventilation.
You've talked about the ship's power plant before, but I'm curious, why'd the Navy go with steam? Also, why'd the Navy move away from steam? (Excluding nuclear power, obviously.) Gas turbines seem to be all the rage today, so curious if you think they've gone with that instead if back in the day they'd had that technology.
Steam has been the primary method since we stopped using sailboats. Even nuclear ships are still steam-ish. They just make the steam differently.
National Emergency clause, could the Navy and Homeland Security do some "tests" on those systems to ensure they are capable of operating? Steam pipes can be "checked" using compressed air to find corroded lines or sections of lines. Also, During a "National Emergency" such as a Hurricane Sandy, or such incident, the Department of the Navy or Department of Homeland Security should be able to have it brought back to Steam for power production or Food and Housing for "Emergency" support not just military support. Having worked in "State of Emergency" situations, having something like that, can be a "HUGE" asset up to and including communications systems. We may not see that "Catastrophe" in OUR life time, however, our children and grandchildren may. That it in itself can be lifesaving on so many levels. One thing I learned from my military service is, "There is ALWAYS an Exception to Policy"... The Red Cross should also be brought in on planning of an "EVENT" as well as the New Jersey National Guard and State Police. (Alternate location for an Emergency Operations Center)Just keeps the tracks greased, it will be a seamless transition in that event. If you could address this on video at some point, I would think the viewers would love to hear what you have to say or have found out about that. The key to combating a "Natural Disaster" is knowing what resources are available and having access to them when needed. If the President (or Governor) needed a "safe" place during an all out "attack" where better for them and his staff to go than to a Battleship... If you have not had any NIMS or ICS courses, I would look into taking them and also look at taking ICS 300 and 400 which is about "Planning" for an "EVENT". The museum ships are a "Gold Mine" of resources....
Appurtenances: all of the miscellaneous doo-dads around.
can you supplant a kitchen of your own, like bringing in electric hotplates or portable electric stoves?
We do, basically. Chow line is open for service on Saturdays right now.
Can you accommodate special diets like gluten free?
We pretty much sell hot dogs and potato chips. And beer. Its not a full kitchen
I like how Ryan said private property is an illusion
How is that fair, moving the goal posts to becoming a museum ship?