Hold the phone. Thing is, There was no Link to protect them from Ganondorf when he got out, Link got sent back to his own time. The inhabitants of Hyrule, prayed to the gods to do something about this. Unfortunately, their solution was to flood the seas and leave Hyrule submerged underwater, so Ganondorf won't rule jack. Even then, this still doesn't change the fact that Demise's curse still plays a role in Ganondorf's incarnations, a reminder that he's always after the power he seeks, by any means. Why else would Demise from back then give Hylia so much trouble, even to the point that when he's defeated by Link many years later, he places a curse to keep them always at conflict whenever Link, Zelda, and his future incarnations in each generation they are born in.
Who knows, maybe there just wasn't someone like Link (OoT) in the Adult Timeline who could wield the Master Sword, It isn't just something anyone could wield, only one with a incredible amounts of courage, and nothing of corruption, plus the Triforce of Courage. As for the gods' decision (or goddesses') Whatever kind of decision it was, must have been something if Ganondorf was a threat to the point that Hyrule would rather be lost to the seas than Ganondorf taking over the kingdom again. And the Master Sword is, and continues to be the only thing that takes down Ganondorf and other evils like him.
Perhaps Ganondorf having the triforce of power wasn't a divine prank, but originally he was meant to be one of the three forces meant to keep peace in Hyrule, but Denise's curse corrupted that.
huricane887 Actually, I'd be all for that. It would obviously be one of the last games in the timeline, if not the last, but I've always thought that Ganondorf was a fascinating character who has always gotten the short end of the stick.
What I'd love is a game that lets you play as the 3 triforce wielders. (Think something like Kingdom Hearts birth by sleep) Yes, I want a good, controllable Ganondorf who is aware that there is something dark inside him that pushes him to evil, yet he does his best to resist i's influence.
....I don't have a favourite Ganondorf, but Favourite Link is Ocarina of Time and favourite Zelda is Twilight Princess.....but I guess WW Ganondorf could be the best
+Yami It's the only one where they really gave him a characterization, beyond just being EVIL. I really like this idea by the way, wouldn't mind if Nintendo stole it.
The Último Knight Wouldn't mind if Nintendo saw this and used the idea. I doubt they have thought of it this way, but it doesn't directly contradict anything in the official Zelda "canon", and I think it would be a great approach for future games.
makes sense if you see how he acts in all 3 timelines. Hero leaves: Lawful Evil, tries to resurrect Hyrule Hero stays: Neutral Evil, continues the same conquest he started in OOT before inevitably being consumed by darkness in FSA Hero Dies: Chaotic Evil, Ganondorf is no more and has fully become the Demon Ganon in all the games in this timeline.
i declare he is a necessary evil he is a goddesses instrument to wipe out real threats like cole, majora, and vaati and all the "evil" monster are just essence of Demise spread throughout the lands and plains of existence
he is not Evil.. that HATE was forced Upon him by Demise!! how should he have known, better Ganondorf never asked for this and yet the Gods still smite him.
In zelda historia it explicitly says that Gerudo women seduce Hylian men. In one of the games the Gerudo women kidnapped construction workers, their plan was to rape them.
"My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose." As Link holds the master sword embedded within Ganondorf's skull, Ganondorf laments, "The wind... It is blowing..."
Ganondorf: "I swear I won't get political this time!" Ganondorf 10 drinks later: "My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose."
There's also the point that Hilda in A Link between Worlds pretty much did the same thing. Wanting another Triforce to save her kingdom and had to go to extreme measures (going against Link at the end of the game) in order for her to obtain all three pieces of the Triforce.
+The One I think it's funny how useless the Triforce has been in the past. Most of the problems it corrected were the ones it caused (Demise for example). In ALBW, they basically wished for more wishes.
Well, to me Ganondorf isn't Demise. BUT the beast inside him "Ganon" is the reincarnation of Demise. This is what I'll explain in the part 2 of my 3D animation "Ganondorf Dragmire".
I completely understand since I know it requires a lot of time and effort to produce something of a high quality. Regardless, I am so thankful for your most recent video, which to me is a masterpiece even though no words were uttered. I could really feel the Deku Butler's sadness and longing for his dead son. I subscribed and clicked on the bell, so I will be keeping up with your progress.
I've come to realise that Hyrule's history fallows the same path as any other Kingdom's/Empire in history. That being said it's just history happening, there are no villains in history there's only search for power and land and individuals who do anything to aquire those things. If we look at the Zelda series we see Ganondorf, a caring man for his people who desired to provide his followers with land and prosperity, we also see the countless rulers of Hyrule, greedy and possessive of their own land to the point of forbidding the Gerudo to set foot on it. These various individuals are human beings they all have flaws. Even Daphanes in Wind Waker refused to let go of what was his and pleaded Link and Zelda to search for a new land to call Hyrule, this action shows signs of both greed and a colonialist mindset which extends further than what this scene presents but that's an entire different topic. History has had its share amount of personalities who lived to do worse than what Ganon has but we dont refer to them as villains. I know, the whole point of the video isn't what we should and shouldn't define as a villain so let me get to the point. Is Ganondorf good? No, although his motives are reasonable his actions defy modern moral codes which ultimately strip him of that adjective; but is he EVIL? Absolutely not, he is not killing for the pleasure of doing so he merely wants possession of a land and sittuations analogous to what he caused happened all over the world in the course of history. (sorry for the english, I'm portuguese)
Finally! someone who understands! Maybe we can side with Ganondorf someday and become a rouge hero someday. Shunned by the goddesses, praised by the Gerudo.
Final few games could be fun Link being curious about the the true history goes through the royal Hyrulian library learns that through the triforce has forced the races to fall in line Link tries to convince Zelda but she believing the the Hylian royal family did nothing wrong allows Link to live and leave but tells her father who has Link framed as a traitor he being on the run makes it to the Gerudo desert and when Ganondorf finds him has him jailed until he can be questioned.
+Muxxies Hut Maybe that's why Ganondorf has that thing on his forehead, maybe part of his dark curse is that he can never perfect his hair the way his ancestors did.
My theory Ganondorf- an overall good person with respectable goals and no direct relation to Demise Ganon- truly evil, true incarnation of Demise with heavy influence over Ganondorf Wind Waker- Ganondorf manages to remove Ganon's influence, only wishing to revive the lands and provide a strong leader (By far the best Ganondorf personality) Ocarina of Time- Ganon first surfaces and has a hard grasp over Ganondorf who has not had time to understand or realize what it was doing Twilight Princess- Ganon has heavy heavy influence over Ganondorf, he has much more control than Ganondorf himself over his actions and commands. (favorite Ganondorf visually, better than Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, far far weaker as a character than Wind Waker) Downfall timeline- Ganondorf is completely consumed by Ganon, the demon used the power of the full Triforce to take over the at this time fairly young king who had no knowledge of this being.
if it's true I would theorize that ganondorf is trying to end the curse after being free of Demise's influence due to the seperation and is helping Link defeat calamity ganon
That's a fresh idea never done before. The same redemptive Ganondorf would join forces to defeat Calamity Ganon. What about the Triforce? If Hylia is back, does it mean she is the voice and is she utilizing the power of the full Triforce to fend off and trap Calamity Ganon at this time until a hero is capable of stopping it?
Well, I'd say that OoT Ganondorf is evil, as he is pretty darn pure evil in Twilight Princess as he crushes the Fused Shadow, deceives an angered servant and straight up uses a weapon that was suppose to kill him! The Wind Waker one on the other hand, I think was merely corrupted by Demise's dumb vendetta curse and would have otherwise been a good king. He wanted Hyrule for his people, to get away from either extreme desert or extreme water, not to engulf it in shadow or something. I miss that ginger bro. He was awesome, and he had Zubora's swords so he might even be a master at dimension jumping. Seriously, I want a game where you play as Sheik (a stealthy, acrobatic game) and a game where you play as Ganondorf, fighting his own corruption in an alternate, Link-free timeline.
Even better: a 'mass effect' style rpg, where you can swap lead characters from among Link, Zelda/Shiek, Ganondorf and others. It'd allow you to change the base class of each character or multi-class as well. Like link initially training as a swordsman, but multi-classing as an archer later. Or Ganon as a spell casting sorcerer, and/or as a dark magic wielding martial artist like in Smash. Epic...
inglebear84 Yeah, I'd play that. Maybe switching characters would take away the freedom to make an original story though. You'd pretty much have to make Link a "true hero", make Sheik too mysterious and make Ganondorf the "enemy general that realizes his actions and joins the good side". A single, well though out character would make the game a great character-driven legend. And yeah. Class changes? Wooooo boy, I would adore that
HMK everyone has the capacity to be good. It isn't our abilities or even who we once were that makes us who we are, it is our choices. Ganondorf had plenty of chances to choose the right thing. While I acknowledge some of his choices are influenced by demise he could have gone about it in a way that didn't harm others. He could have befriended the Gorons, Zora, and even the Great Deku tree to get the spiritual stones. Once he had started his rule he could have brought his people to live with him in castle town, he could have become a good king instead of a tyrannical one. These were all his choices he could have made himself without the influence of Demise.
+Ucha Nekome But what would he wish for if he got the Triforce, maybe he just thought the quicker he got the Triforce the quicker EVERYONE would be happy, some sadness and hurt along the way would be worth it if he got rid of the god's that do nothing for the people but hurt them.Ends justify the means, at least here.
+Ucha Nekome I think Ganondorf would have chosen to attempt to take over Hyrule with or without Demise's influence, for the sake of his people, but it was that very influence that caused his specific actions, such as killing the Great Deku Tree. I believe that Ganondorf would be a good person, were he not so cursed.
+Ucha Nekome You know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Few people are inherently evil, with Ganondorf's good intentions not changing the means of which he went to achieve them.
I've always felt the same way about Windwaker Gannondorf. Twilight Gannondorf on the other hand, after being thwarted twice before his rule even began resulted in him being more bitter, more malicious and more determined. In between the two timelines, Gannondorf most likely discovered his true self at the same time in both timelines. In one timeline he rejected his demonic roots. In the other, he embraced his demonic roots.
holy crap that line ganondorf says about a burning wind during the day and piercing frigid gale was implemented in breath of that wild. That's exactly how the gerudo region works.
I am surprised that both of you never mentioned the possibility that Groose's bloodline could hold the"third part" of the curse. Groose was present when Demise appeared, playing a small but important role, and that's not to discuss the physical similarities Groose has with the Gerudo tribe. The "spirit of the Hero" would be Link. The "blood of the Goddess", Zelda and "incarnation of my hatred" would fall upon the only other human present that he would know of, Groose. My friend always felt that Ganondorf was not dark and pure evil, he played WW before OoT and he felt that there was more to back up his claims of Ganondorf while he played through OoT and many of the reasons are the same as listed here.
The fact that he (the human side) also happens to be a chosen one like Link and Zelda is really interesting and tragic in a way. if it weren't for Demise corrupting that with his hate long before I'm sure he would be reincarnated as a person of justice when something evil falls upon Hyrule. Now that Demise tainted the purity of the gods plan he made it so now its an infinite loop of tragedy because the chosen are just fighting among themselves forever. Hyrule will never prosper substantially and advance ever only momentary peace to be threatened over an over again. I don't think the chosen were supposed to be fighting at all against each other at all. This is a good theory, hell I think it's beyond theory it's definitely the truth of the matter.
+HMK 6:08 to answer your question the Triforce doesn't distinguish between good and evil. Watch the ending of ALTTP where the essence of the Triforce speaks with Link. It can't distinguish good vs evil, it only senses balance/ imbalance of virtues.
I have had a similar theory for years. Based heavily off of Wind Waker, Ganondorf is a general good person and king with a want to protect his people and the chosen holder of power as mentioned in Twilight Princess (though all other timelines he takes it by force), Ganon on the other hand is another thing as the pure incarnation of Demise. In the Wind Waker game what I see is Ganondorf in who he really is, having almost full control over his dark side and thus why he does not use his Ganon form or magic as he does not want it to regain capture over him. In the other games Ganon's influence has taken a far deeper hold of Ganondorf, in the downfall timeline its completely taken control of his soul using the Triforce to take control, in the adult timeline it has taken a deep seeded influence over him though not complete control and after the loss of his people and the removal of his ambitions he lets it take hold, in the child timeline Ganondorf is able to overthrow it and its influence is reduced to a significantly smaller effect, only slight adjustments if anything at all rather than corrupting his wishes to be a good king.
Explosive KAMel The three most popular theories that work on any series ever is 1. Good guy is bad, 2. Bad guy is good, 3. It's all in his mind via death or coma.
Wow this was one of the best collab i've seen from both of your channels to be honest it was hard to choose who video i would watch first so i just watch em both and they were superb topics like this need to be touched up apon more
+M. Productions I have a good question for you! If you were to make a ranking of the strongest the legend of zelda characters. How would the list look like?
It would be funny to see an incarnation of Ganondorf being good instead of evil. As if Link had to travel to a different dimension where he has to stop his evil counterpart while teaming up with the good counterpart of Ganondorf haha
In real life there's no 100% good and evil people. Why should games be any different. Link has shown darkness which created Dark Link. Ganondorf has lamented being consumed by power. Demise is the only True evil...maybe.
The saddest thing about Ganondorf, if this video is anything close to the truth, is his existance in Breath of the Wild. This one line that Zelda delivers, that Ganondorf "gave up on reincarnation," leads me to believe that after his ultimate failure in Windwaker he abandoned all hope of restoring his land and people and gave in entirely to Demise's curse, forsaking his humanity and becoming Calamity Ganon.
I think he is just a victim of the system, literally. Sometimes you see the character strugling to be the demon lord reborn and he also has the "lucidity" that he will always be defeated eventually,. Unlike Link and Zelda, Ganon know his destiny beforehand, he knows he will be defeated somehow. This type of chracter development is very clear on Wind Waker, Ganon simply knows he is a pig (literally) ready to be slaughtered. More like a tragical villain than a "good" villain. Demise cursed Ganon to a forever existence of constant defeats, that sucks.
Also, something else to note: Look at WW Ganondorf's design. When I first knew about WW and saw Ganondorf, I ligitimately thought he was going to be a good guy in that game. He doesn't look like a hateful jerk like his previous incarnation. Instead, he looks thoughtful, composed, almost jolly even. Had it not been for the curse that he realized would seal his fate of becoming the ultimate antagonist, he probably would've be a great ally to Link.
I believe a point was left out that Ganondorf might actually have been trying to AMEND his crimes. Both by trying to restore hyrule and to rebuild his people whom he loved so much, he was trying to amend all the foolish acts he had made as a young man. It was his fault hyrule was destroyed, he was the soul reason the entire Gerudo tribe had been massacred. Yes, he might have been a strategist, but near the end of his life, i can't really call him evil. It seems much more likely that at the end of wind waker, all he really wanted was to do was rectify his crimes and restore the world to peace and prosperity. And maybe just once make the right choice and prove he was more than just a reincarnation of a monster...
One country's conqueror is another country's hero. I think ganon is certainly good by the view of his desire to save his people from the harsh winds of the desert. If it weren't for the Demise' influence, i certainly think he could've been a very good and kind king. He may have even found a less violent way to accomplish his goals. Sadly, he could not even do that. His destiny was set in stone before he even had a chance to choose for himself. It's sad really.
I know this is an older Video but a thought hit me while watching During his Final Fight in OOT with The Hero of Time, Remember he got Stabbed in the Head with the Master Sword... Could it Be Possible that this one act Free'd Ganondorf from the Evil Inside of him? Perhaps the Master Sword Extracted Demise's Influence over the Gerudo King and By the time Wind Waker's come around... Perhaps He Finally Understood what he Truly was, and While Link had Severed his ties to Demise himself, Ganondorf still had Ambitions to Conquer and Rule Hyrule if any to finally be able to lead his people to Prosperity as he Promised...
+mech genre/medevil fantasy fan julian Yeah just imagine like in a different universe or something. Ganondorf must staunch the tyranny of Link and Zelda, the people of hyrule as well as the monsters fear Zelda and Link and their "judgement" then you as Ganondorf come in and begin amassing an army against them, collecting weapons and magic and fighting great fairies, that would be awesome!!
I still think he's evil... Everything he said in wind walker just came off as bullshit to me because even when he ruled Hyrule he left his people back in the desert...
"Everything he said in wind walker just came off as bullshit to me because even when he ruled Hyrule he left his people back in the desert..." Cause he didn't actually rule them at that point. Naboru did and she was in open rebellion against Ganondorf (just a logical deduction). Ganondorf also didn't seem to be as powerful as you'd think in Ocarina of Time-at least not militarily. Aside from the Gerudo thing, there were multiple Hylian settlements that he left relatively untouched like Lon-Lon ranch and Kakariko Village.
You guys did an awesome job on this. You looked at this from the view point of Ganondorf the man without having sympathy for the devil. Theologically, I appreciate the time you and MacIntyre put into this theory.
I just realized that Ganondorf still had the Triforce of Power during the final battle in The Wind Waker even after reassembling the full Triforce from his piece and those of Link and Zelda to make the wish. I always thought the reason he didn't transform into Ganon in the end was because his piece had left him but no. Perhaps he wanted to die after seing his plans failing utterly with Hyrule being completely flooded by the king's wish and only attacked Link so he could as least go out with a battle instead of being stuck underwater (still almost immortal) without a purpose.
+Jay Upadhya That doesn't necessarily make him EVIL, though. Stealing is bad, but take Robin Hood, for example: A theif that robs from the rich and gives to the poor. He does something wrong to provide for others, therefore we percieve him as good even before we learn that his loyalties lie with the true King, Richard.
+Sjono The original LOZ had neither the master sword nor demise and the same goes for the Adventure of Link yet Ganon existed and was clearly evil. Maybe its the destiny of the one born to bear the Triforce of power to be evil.
There have been other Zelda games were Ganondorf wasn't the main guy, where he didn't even exist yet great evil still fell upon the land. There can be a Zelda game were a great evil threatens all of Hyrule and Ganondorf is or becomes one of the good guys. He was chosen by the gods, like Link and Zelda, to wield a piece of the Triforce. However, Demise's curse corrupted his true purpose and doomed Ganondorf into pursuing the Triforce for himself and his selfish desires, despite how much he wanted a better future for his Gerudo people. If Ganondorf was freed from the curse of Demise, he would easily choose what is truly right and become the honorable king the Gerudo desire and a truly righteous wielder of the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf wasn't born evil, he was cursed to be evil. Cursed by one harbinging a deep grudge towards the gods themselves.
SegaMaster172 but Demise was eventually out ruled in the fallen timeline and just became Ganon and Ganondorf in the child timeline is the most confusing... I like to believe that every main villain in Zelda has some part of Ganon or Demise in them (except for SS)
I love this theory. It makes sense. In the child timeline, Ganondorf was imprisoned and banished to the Twilight realm before he can do any damage, while still somehow obtaining the triforce beforehand, and in the hero defeated timeline, he was sealed away in the imprisoning war by the seven sages. In both cases, he was defeated by forces from the mortal realm with no divine intervention. This would make more sense to him than divine intervention would, as both cases are simply opposition challenging him. All that would do is make him much angrier, and he would not attempt to gain control with minimal casualties like he did in Wind Waker. It all makes sense.
My personal pet theory is that Ganon is the corrupted reincarnation of Groose, whose spirit reincarnates alongside the goddess incarnate and the spirit of the hero perpetually. It is why despite having so many opportunities over the years, he generally never truly harms the two of them when he has the chance. Because deep down at his core, the part that is still untainted by Demise's curse, he recognizes his most cherished friends, Link and Zelda.
This theory is very similar to my own little theory I came up with a while ago. However, I came up with the idea that Ganondorf got possessed by Demise's soul, which was sealed in the master sword in Skyward Sword. And then thus got released from the seal the moment the master sword was pulled from the pedestal in Ocarina of Time. In Wind Waker, I think ganondorf might have been supressing the demon within until the final battle where he snapped. In the Twilight Princess branch, I think Demise was still in control until the moment at the ending where he lost the triforce of power. Just my thoughts on it. Great video btw! I enjoyed it, and it's pretty solid!
I always thought a game where you actually play as a young desert raider Ganon who possibly isn't fully aware of his possession by the great beast Ganon/Demise would be cool. Travel to some sweet lesser known/unknown desert locations, oasises and stuff. By the way... Is Ganondorf actually supposed to be the same guy everytime or it a Triforce Fate/Destiny Reincarnation thing like how Link and Zelda always just get born again, or maybe some Voldemort or Dracula resurrection by minions?
I wondered this myself after my husband got me interested in the lore of the Zelda games. I often questioned why Ganondorf held one of the pieces of the Triforce if he was just out to watch everything burn. The Goddess Din doesn't sound like an inherently evil entity. But then I figured maybe Ganondorf was a prime example of Lord Acton's quote, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Then Skyward Sword came out and introduced Demise the Demon king; thus was added a whole new layer of complexity to Ganondorf. Now there's a whole new reason for Ganondorf to be evil. And so I started to draw the same conclusions you did. That maybe if it weren't for this demon curse Ganondorf could have successfully used his part of the Triforce to help his people and lead them to prosperity. Maybe that's why he was allowed to have it in the first place. True the lore suggests he stole it but if the Goddess really didn't feel he had the right to have the Triforce of strength then I doubt it would have stayed with him.
it might be the story for the breath of the wild. the old man could be ganondorf and the calamity ganon could be the curse itself. maybe he somehow separated himself from the curse. I mean, ganon has been alive for a while, and he knows many things. i would be surprised if he found away to undo the curse. but if this is true, then that means no more ganondorf as a main villain, at least for this timeline.
+ItsameAlex My older brother is a huge Legend of Zelda fan. If I have any trouble I'm sure he can give me a few pointers. Thanks for the suggestions!!!!!!!!!
Since Ganondorf's powers were partly sealed by the Master Sword at some point between OoT and TWW, this possibly sealed some of Demise's influence as well, which may have helped Ganondorf realise the truth of his situation, as said in the video. Even after Link draws the Master Sword and releases his powers, Ganondorf has enough willpower to not fully give in to the darkness, since he now knows that those dark desires are not what he truly wants. A lot of stories talk about the nature of 'Good' and 'Evil' being just different points of view. Ganondorf is certainly selfish and stubborn, wanting to rule over everything no matter how long it takes or what stands in his way. He's definitely 'Evil' from that perspective.
At The Four Swords Adventure he isn't even born evil, but slowly turned wicked with age. And he was defeated again. Maybe that took another part from Demise away from his soul to peak a little through...
Its an interesting thing to talk about but the choices that Ganondorf makes, take away all the notions that we may have about his possible intentions for good. The way he goes about doing what he desires, is nothing more than the making of evil works. Just because their is a sad story behind the actions one makes, doesn't automatically justify those said actions if they are wrong. People often misconstrue this very important point by making a simple answer complicated for the sake of a good story. I know this is just a video game, but morality is never wrong in and out of real life. Great video and it was a pleasure to watch it guys.
I have always thought of Ganondorf as a victim of his mothers' resentment for the kingdom of Hyrule. Remember, it was the first King (If I'm not mistaken) who forced the Gerudo into the desert after, apparently, an age-long war. Ganondorf isn't necessarily "evil". Imagine being a Gerudo, growing up and learning the sordid history of your people through the eyes of those victimized in the first place. Ganondorf's original goal, in my mind, was a sort of reunification of Hyrule. He wanted his people to be prosperous again, and his intentions were noble enough...until he touched the Triforce and what darkness was in his heart was amplified by the Triforce of Power...Mad with power, Demise consumed him (I think, honestly, that somehow TwinRova knew that Demise was still around in some form or another and bound his spirit to Ganondorf's when he was young to make him more powerful in order to fulfill their plans to Overthrow the King of Hyrule). And after Ganondorf was locked away, he had a long-ass time to think about what he'd done, and how badly he'd messed things up for his people as a result, because after OOT, the Gerudo people are nowhere to be seen...Ganondorf is the last of the Gerudo, and he wanted to change this...Any wish he wanted could be granted..and my bet is that he would have wished that he'd never tried to obtain the Triforce in the first place, thus resetting the events leading up to, during, and after OOT. The Gerudo would still be dwelling in the desert, but wouldn't be nearly extinct. He even mentions his regrets during the final cutscenes of WW.
I really like the theory and character arc you laid out here - it makes a lot of sense; the points you bring up about Ganandorf not using any demonic power in the last battle is especially noteworthy and really cements your argument. I wouldn't say Gandandorf is Good - his actions and the path he walked clearly put him on the wrong side of the coin -- but I've always felt since WW and you've definitely shown that Ganandorf is not a one-dimensional "Evil For Evil's Sake" character. He is a "Tragic Villain," or, at least, 'tragically a villain.' If it weren't for Demise, I still think Ganandorf would've been envious and headstrong in the OoT timeline and would've very likely proceeded with his plans to overthrow Hyrule - and I like the idea that he gains the Triforce of Power on his own merit because he's just that committed. While this is "Evil" from the prospective of the Hylians, this would be seen as wonderfully heroic from the pov of the Gerudos -- history records who's "Right" and who's "Wrong." After all - one could argue the Hylians are evil for not sharing their bounty of crops and land with the poor and suffering Gerudo tribe who are their close neighbors. Hyrule was practically begging for a revolution. So in OoT - Ganandorf is no more 'evil' than any other King or conqueror in history. ...well...after the 7 year gap he gets pretty evil but...Demise. If he had actually moved the Gerudo tribe into Castle Town and made it thriving - that would've been a different story. The fact he basically makes a tower of hedonism to himself shows that Young Ganandorf is pretty much evil. I definitely like the idea of the Goddesses smiting Ganandorf because of his link to Demise...but there's a problem with that in so far as 'why give him the chance at all, then?" I guess it's because otherwise we wouldn't have a story...but still. I'm still holding out hope for a game or a manga or SOMETHING that actually covers the period of time where Hyrule is sunk beneath the waters (can you imagine how dope a game would be where you play as Ganandorf and the finale is the GODDESS THEMSELVES fight you in a battle you can't win?). WW Ganandorf is my favorite character in the LoZ series, and you said all there needs to be said. He's not a "Good" guy but he's not "Evil" either. He has a goal, and that GOAL is actually "good." It's just the actual means he must use to reach that goal are what many would call "Evil." If you look at it one way: WW Ganandorf is spending the entire game trying to save Hyrule, and you stop him by DESTROYING Hyrule at the end. That's actually what happens. Yes he kills people to do it - but again, no more than necessary and he doesn't 'gloat' about his kills. He's just doing what's necessary.
you may have just triped over the origin of calamity gannon...what if, apon realizing his fate in this iteration of the cycle ganondorf rebeled against it, and sought out a way to extract the malicious power of demise from himself...but when he did so that power took on a might and a will of its own...and thus was the mindless beast, calamity gannon, born.
I feel like this has one point that could predict something in BOTW; "Ganondorf could have been a righteous king of the Gerudo, if not for Demise's hatred". What if in BOTW, calamity ganon is Demise's hatred in pure form, that left Ganon's physical form. Then he becomes the kind old man at the beginning of the game :)
My theory: Ganondorf knows that calamity comes to Hyrule because of the split triforces. So he tries to fuse them back together so future generations won't have to suffer.
So, if the Hyrule kingdom met with the Gerodu to discuss a new location to live, regardless of whether or not they lived in Hyrule or just somewhere that breathed life compared to a desert, there might at least be less conflicts. Other than that, while influenced or even possessed by the curse of Demise, when it came to Ganondorf, the following phrase could possibly be applied: the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I've always had this idea for a zelda stuck in my head. Its years later, lets say in a timeline in which the gurudo were not killed and ganondorf, link and zelda were all reincarnated again, but this time, with link and and or zelda being the ones to come years before ganondorf's. In this version, link is discovered in childhood to be the chosen hero in childhood, but with no ganondorf to fight against. instead, the sage's raise and train link themselves to eventually challenge this threat. the constant pressure to fight an invisible evil drive this Link to dark and extreme means to prevent the horror's he was warned about as a child. the game would play out as a young ganondorf, burded by the hatred of demise to fight a now zealous link.
now, this theory got me thinking. if what some have been speculating for in zelda u, is it possible that gannondorf will play a bigger role than ultimate evil? three theories: gannondorf good, zelda u on a new timeline, gannon will be more of a mentor in zelda u. if on a new timeline, gannon may be evil in the beggining, but instead of passing three trials for the master sword, he starts with it and instead quests to break the demise curse to an extent, (not tied to be link's eternal antagonist). after the first phase of the game (im calling it the trial phase), gannon, link, and zelda, the three triforce wielders must team up to defeat a greater evil, opening the doors for link to learn new techniques and strategies from gannon. if this timeline persists, i suggest the ally or triforce timeline, where the three hero's must team up and defeat evils beyond the powers of the triforce(es) and learn some new secrets about the ancient golden power, possibly finding the final piece to make the complete triforce (not tetraforce, still only has three sides. maybe the full force?). it would be an interesting new story for a 30 year old game series, possibly even drawing in new fans.
How I see this, is that in the OOT timeline Ganondorf was being controlled by Ganon, which would explain why he acted the way he did. After getting the Piece of power Ganon was born as the reincarnation of Demise which took control over Ganondorf, because he wanted strenght for the sake of his people but got turned into a puppet. In which case would explain why in TWW he seems more "human" because some of the influence of Demise could be sealed by the Master Sword so he could have acted on his own. But after the Gods intervined and flooded Hyrule he had enough time to think about why they did it and realised that he was becoming less and less "human". After realising this he probaly remembered who he was and why he did what he did but also knew he couldn't change the things he did. But with the Time sealed he probaly learned how to control his power which could be the reason why there is the Boss PuppetGanon in TWW. So instead of being a Puppet of Demise he made his "Dark Side" into a Puppet which would not take him over again and only using the power he aquired throu fair means. I personaly like to think of Ganondorf as someone who isn't "Evil" but as someone whose heart was the cause of his actions. He only wanted to help his people but his wish for power and the curse from Demise turned him into a puppet. Also the concept of "Good and Evil" is always questinable. A action can be good for many but for some it will be seen as something evil.
During the adult timeline, before windwaker, maybe Ganondorf's action were to save the Garudo from extinction, which they would have experienced anyway in the childhood timeline, and the end result was Hyrule being submerged under water, rather than the Garudo being tortured and wiped out by the other races, like in majora's mask and twilight princess!
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" Yes Ganondorf is good from a certain perspective however by the end of the games the Triforce of Power has corrupted him leading to mutual destruction for all of Hyrule
It's good to see a partnership between HMK and M. Productions! You guys understand a lot of Hyrulean History! I feel bad about the Gerudos, forced to live in the desert and left to die. Ganondorf in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker is just trying to make justice about the genocide of Gerudo race and Link in OoT/TP/WW is just a tool or a "puppet" of the Hyrulean Royal Family to make sure that the Hylian people will conquer all the territories. Ganondorf stopped the execution and in the end, was stabbed to death by the Hero of Twilight (helped by the Hero of Time) in the end of TP, but i don't understand why he wanted to bring back Hyrule in the end of WW, if Hyrule is flooded and forgotten in the depths of the Great Sea, so, Hylians are "dead" and he could live peacefully in the ocean.
About the hatred of Demise in Skyward Sword, i didn't understand at all. He said that all incarnations of Link and Zelda will be cursed but if Ganon (Possibily the incarnated Demise) is dead after TP/WW, the curse is still working in Four Swords Adventures and in Spirit Tracks? I'm so confuse.
+TDPI Ellafan Hm, but i think that Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker is the same. Maybe only Ganon from Four Swords Adventures is another incarnation because Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time was killed in Twilight Princess.
I've always wondered about if Ganon was based on Ramses II. I mean, he's a ruler of the desert. He has red hair. He was believed to be immortal due to living for an impossibly long time in those days (he lived to be around 90), though Ganon reincarnates. Given that 9 pharaohs who came after were also named Ramses in his honor, that could be why every Ganon is Ganon. The first part of his rule was focused on building rather than warfare. Oh yeah, and he goes to war. The Gerudo could be a reference to the Sherden pirates. His distaste for the goddesses or Hyrule could be like Ramses' dislike for Amarna or it's religious practices, though that's quite the stretch. ... Or perhaps i've just always been overthinking it.
Cons and Pros to the theory of a good Ganondorf:Pros: 15 minutes of competent research video and deep lore analysis. Cons: He gets freaking flames behind him while riding his horse guys! ì__í
it would be a cool idea to think that the reason why ganondorf keeps coming back, why the seals inevitably fail is because somewhere deep down, ganondorf is good. the master sword, the "bane of evil" should basically obliterate him as the reincarnation of demise, right? but before all that, he was a gerudo first. no race in hyrule is inherently evil. maybe the gods wanted to give him a chance in the next life. link and zelda were there to defeat him just in case.
I honestly felt a little bad for Ganondorf when reading some of his dialogue in wind waker the last time I played it.
+Kratos Aurion Plays I thought he was correct when he pointed out it was the Hyian's God's who had drowned them for no reason.
Kratos Aurion Plays same here
Hold the phone. Thing is, There was no Link to protect them from Ganondorf when he got out, Link got sent back to his own time. The inhabitants of Hyrule, prayed to the gods to do something about this. Unfortunately, their solution was to flood the seas and leave Hyrule submerged underwater, so Ganondorf won't rule jack. Even then, this still doesn't change the fact that Demise's curse still plays a role in Ganondorf's incarnations, a reminder that he's always after the power he seeks, by any means. Why else would Demise from back then give Hylia so much trouble, even to the point that when he's defeated by Link many years later, he places a curse to keep them always at conflict whenever Link, Zelda, and his future incarnations in each generation they are born in.
the real question is: Why the hell was the solution to flood the place instead of have another hero
Who knows, maybe there just wasn't someone like Link (OoT) in the Adult Timeline who could wield the Master Sword, It isn't just something anyone could wield, only one with a incredible amounts of courage, and nothing of corruption, plus the Triforce of Courage. As for the gods' decision (or goddesses') Whatever kind of decision it was, must have been something if Ganondorf was a threat to the point that Hyrule would rather be lost to the seas than Ganondorf taking over the kingdom again. And the Master Sword is, and continues to be the only thing that takes down Ganondorf and other evils like him.
Perhaps Ganondorf having the triforce of power wasn't a divine prank, but originally he was meant to be one of the three forces meant to keep peace in Hyrule, but Denise's curse corrupted that.
Leave it to dickhead Demise to ruin the day.They should make a Zelda game where you try to break the curse.
huricane887 Actually, I'd be all for that. It would obviously be one of the last games in the timeline, if not the last, but I've always thought that Ganondorf was a fascinating character who has always gotten the short end of the stick.
What I'd love is a game that lets you play as the 3 triforce wielders. (Think something like Kingdom Hearts birth by sleep)
Yes, I want a good, controllable Ganondorf who is aware that there is something dark inside him that pushes him to evil, yet he does his best to resist i's influence.
huricane887 Wind Waker.
NeoChronoid how about Zelda, link and ganondorf fighting back against the curse trying to destroy it
This video shows why WW Ganondorf is my favorite version of Ganondorf.
....I don't have a favourite Ganondorf, but Favourite Link is Ocarina of Time and favourite Zelda is Twilight Princess.....but I guess WW Ganondorf could be the best
My favorite Link is WW and favorite Zelda is SS. Second favorite Link is SS and Zelda is WW. Favorite Ganon is WW. I notice a pattern here. :p
+Yami It's the only one where they really gave him a characterization, beyond just being EVIL. I really like this idea by the way, wouldn't mind if Nintendo stole it.
Eirik W What do you mean by "Wouldn't mind if Nintendo stole it"?
The Último Knight Wouldn't mind if Nintendo saw this and used the idea. I doubt they have thought of it this way, but it doesn't directly contradict anything in the official Zelda "canon", and I think it would be a great approach for future games.
Ganondorf: I hate sand. It's coarse, and it's rough, and it gets everywhere.
There is a special place in hell for you.
Naedeslus Why must you say that?
DELETE THIS!
don't compare ganondorf to that angsty tumor of a character
umbreon567 an angsty tumor...
That's pretty accurate, actually.
makes sense if you see how he acts in all 3 timelines.
Hero leaves: Lawful Evil, tries to resurrect Hyrule
Hero stays: Neutral Evil, continues the same conquest he started in OOT before inevitably being consumed by darkness in FSA
Hero Dies: Chaotic Evil, Ganondorf is no more and has fully become the Demon Ganon in all the games in this timeline.
but four swords adventurer ganon is basically a zombie
i declare he is a necessary evil he is a goddesses instrument to wipe out real threats like cole, majora, and vaati and all the "evil" monster are just essence of Demise spread throughout the lands and plains of existence
I like the way you put it 🖒
he is not Evil.. that HATE was forced Upon him by Demise!! how should he have known, better Ganondorf never asked for this and yet the Gods still smite him.
Must have been awkward growing up, being the only male in a female desert society, the sex talk must have been weird.
Yeah, especially when the females would HAVE to have both male and female genitalia in order for their tribe to reproduce like that.
+DreamerGoat does ganos is gay?
What?
In zelda historia it explicitly says that Gerudo women seduce Hylian men. In one of the games the Gerudo women kidnapped construction workers, their plan was to rape them.
So much for nintendo being family friendly, eh? lol
"My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose."
As Link holds the master sword embedded within Ganondorf's skull, Ganondorf laments, "The wind... It is blowing..."
Sorry ganondorf, that was me, I farted.
This is beautiful
Ganondorf: "I swear I won't get political this time!"
Ganondorf 10 drinks later: "My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose."
There's also the point that Hilda in A Link between Worlds pretty much did the same thing. Wanting another Triforce to save her kingdom and had to go to extreme measures (going against Link at the end of the game) in order for her to obtain all three pieces of the Triforce.
+The One I think it's funny how useless the Triforce has been in the past. Most of the problems it corrected were the ones it caused (Demise for example). In ALBW, they basically wished for more wishes.
Well, to me Ganondorf isn't Demise. BUT the beast inside him "Ganon" is the reincarnation of Demise. This is what I'll explain in the part 2 of my 3D animation "Ganondorf Dragmire".
How are you doing with part 2? Are you close to completing it? I really enjoyed part 1, so I am really looking forward to watching part 2.
There is still ta lot of work to do ^^
I completely understand since I know it requires a lot of time and effort to produce something of a high quality. Regardless, I am so thankful for your most recent video, which to me is a masterpiece even though no words were uttered. I could really feel the Deku Butler's sadness and longing for his dead son. I subscribed and clicked on the bell, so I will be keeping up with your progress.
RwanLink that may be
RwanLink WHICH I REALLY NEED TO SEE
I've come to realise that Hyrule's history fallows the same path as any other Kingdom's/Empire in history. That being said it's just history happening, there are no villains in history there's only search for power and land and individuals who do anything to aquire those things. If we look at the Zelda series we see Ganondorf, a caring man for his people who desired to provide his followers with land and prosperity, we also see the countless rulers of Hyrule, greedy and possessive of their own land to the point of forbidding the Gerudo to set foot on it. These various individuals are human beings they all have flaws. Even Daphanes in Wind Waker refused to let go of what was his and pleaded Link and Zelda to search for a new land to call Hyrule, this action shows signs of both greed and a colonialist mindset which extends further than what this scene presents but that's an entire different topic.
History has had its share amount of personalities who lived to do worse than what Ganon has but we dont refer to them as villains. I know, the whole point of the video isn't what we should and shouldn't define as a villain so let me get to the point. Is Ganondorf good? No, although his motives are reasonable his actions defy modern moral codes which ultimately strip him of that adjective; but is he EVIL? Absolutely not, he is not killing for the pleasure of doing so he merely wants possession of a land and sittuations analogous to what he caused happened all over the world in the course of history. (sorry for the english, I'm portuguese)
See I come to comment sections because you get more here then from any video generally
Good video too
Finally! someone who understands!
Maybe we can side with Ganondorf someday and become a rouge hero someday. Shunned by the goddesses, praised by the Gerudo.
+Elective Toast I'd buy that!
@ItoMadWorld I know that I am super late, but that story will be awesome to play.
Elective Toast Legend of Zelda: The Phantom Pain
Final few games could be fun Link being curious about the the true history goes through the royal Hyrulian library learns that through the triforce has forced the races to fall in line Link tries to convince Zelda but she believing the the Hylian royal family did nothing wrong allows Link to live and leave but tells her father who has Link framed as a traitor he being on the run makes it to the Gerudo desert and when Ganondorf finds him has him jailed until he can be questioned.
I like to Think that Groose from Skyward Sword is Ganondorf, but before the curse was laid.
Zachary Erickson
Yea, you see him at the end of the game flying to Lanayru Desert, it's clearly a possibility.
Zachary Erickson
I believe so.
+Muxxies Hut Maybe that's why Ganondorf has that thing on his forehead, maybe part of his dark curse is that he can never perfect his hair the way his ancestors did.
+Jebradiah Drake lol
I thought it was because Demise had a scar there, but sure that can work.
ganondorf: i will kill everyone!
everyone: booh!
ganondorf: but it is so my people can have cookies!
everyone: ahh okay you are you nice to everyone.
Dack Lazy trololol
link ganondorf the great king must not be disrespected
+link Dissing on Ganondorf, are ya Link? :)
My theory
Ganondorf- an overall good person with respectable goals and no direct relation to Demise
Ganon- truly evil, true incarnation of Demise with heavy influence over Ganondorf
Wind Waker- Ganondorf manages to remove Ganon's influence, only wishing to revive the lands and provide a strong leader (By far the best Ganondorf personality)
Ocarina of Time- Ganon first surfaces and has a hard grasp over Ganondorf who has not had time to understand or realize what it was doing
Twilight Princess- Ganon has heavy heavy influence over Ganondorf, he has much more control than Ganondorf himself over his actions and commands. (favorite Ganondorf visually, better than Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, far far weaker as a character than Wind Waker)
Downfall timeline- Ganondorf is completely consumed by Ganon, the demon used the power of the full Triforce to take over the at this time fairly young king who had no knowledge of this being.
They didn't even get cookies. Just sand.
Imagine an M-rated Zelda spinoff game called "The Legend of Ganondorf"
YESS!!!!!
But hey, that's just a theory...
A
oh wait wrong channel
Booba
Booba
+Zachary Erickson (twilightwindwaker) Thanks for watching!
+darksoulzFZ a gay theory
I don’t think MatPat has anything on HMK. 😆
If the Old Man from BOTW is Ganondorf, and Calamity Ganon is Demise separated from him, this theory would acquire much more sense.
if it's true I would theorize that ganondorf is trying to end the curse after being free of Demise's influence due to the seperation and is helping Link defeat calamity ganon
hmm...
thats what i was thinking when i saw the old man was green like ganondorf
That's a fresh idea never done before. The same redemptive Ganondorf would join forces to defeat Calamity Ganon. What about the Triforce? If Hylia is back, does it mean she is the voice and is she utilizing the power of the full Triforce to fend off and trap Calamity Ganon at this time until a hero is capable of stopping it?
*audible gasp* Brilliant
Well, I'd say that OoT Ganondorf is evil, as he is pretty darn pure evil in Twilight Princess as he crushes the Fused Shadow, deceives an angered servant and straight up uses a weapon that was suppose to kill him! The Wind Waker one on the other hand, I think was merely corrupted by Demise's dumb vendetta curse and would have otherwise been a good king. He wanted Hyrule for his people, to get away from either extreme desert or extreme water, not to engulf it in shadow or something. I miss that ginger bro. He was awesome, and he had Zubora's swords so he might even be a master at dimension jumping. Seriously, I want a game where you play as Sheik (a stealthy, acrobatic game) and a game where you play as Ganondorf, fighting his own corruption in an alternate, Link-free timeline.
Even better: a 'mass effect' style rpg, where you can swap lead characters from among Link, Zelda/Shiek, Ganondorf and others. It'd allow you to change the base class of each character or multi-class as well. Like link initially training as a swordsman, but multi-classing as an archer later. Or Ganon as a spell casting sorcerer, and/or as a dark magic wielding martial artist like in Smash. Epic...
inglebear84 Yeah, I'd play that. Maybe switching characters would take away the freedom to make an original story though. You'd pretty much have to make Link a "true hero", make Sheik too mysterious and make Ganondorf the "enemy general that realizes his actions and joins the good side". A single, well though out character would make the game a great character-driven legend. And yeah. Class changes? Wooooo boy, I would adore that
the funny thing is all three are the very same ganon
imani2114 Which simply deepens the idea that it's not Ganondorf, but Ganon
You mean something like hyrule Warriors?
HMK everyone has the capacity to be good. It isn't our abilities or even who we once were that makes us who we are, it is our choices. Ganondorf had plenty of chances to choose the right thing. While I acknowledge some of his choices are influenced by demise he could have gone about it in a way that didn't harm others. He could have befriended the Gorons, Zora, and even the Great Deku tree to get the spiritual stones. Once he had started his rule he could have brought his people to live with him in castle town, he could have become a good king instead of a tyrannical one. These were all his choices he could have made himself without the influence of Demise.
+Ucha Nekome But what would he wish for if he got the Triforce, maybe he just thought the quicker he got the Triforce the quicker EVERYONE would be happy, some sadness and hurt along the way would be worth it if he got rid of the god's that do nothing for the people but hurt them.Ends justify the means, at least here.
+Ucha Nekome I think Ganondorf would have chosen to attempt to take over Hyrule with or without Demise's influence, for the sake of his people, but it was that very influence that caused his specific actions, such as killing the Great Deku Tree. I believe that Ganondorf would be a good person, were he not so cursed.
metaloom Well that's what I'm saying.
+Ucha Nekome You know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Few people are inherently evil, with Ganondorf's good intentions not changing the means of which he went to achieve them.
+nahte123456 using that logic would be neutral at best neither good nor evil.
I've always felt the same way about Windwaker Gannondorf.
Twilight Gannondorf on the other hand, after being thwarted twice before his rule even began resulted in him being more bitter, more malicious and more determined. In between the two timelines, Gannondorf most likely discovered his true self at the same time in both timelines. In one timeline he rejected his demonic roots. In the other, he embraced his demonic roots.
holy crap that line ganondorf says about a burning wind during the day and piercing frigid gale was implemented in breath of that wild. That's exactly how the gerudo region works.
jsa1993 Pretty sure that's how deserts in general work
I am surprised that both of you never mentioned the possibility that Groose's bloodline could hold the"third part" of the curse. Groose was present when Demise appeared, playing a small but important role, and that's not to discuss the physical similarities Groose has with the Gerudo tribe. The "spirit of the Hero" would be Link. The "blood of the Goddess", Zelda and "incarnation of my hatred" would fall upon the only other human present that he would know of, Groose.
My friend always felt that Ganondorf was not dark and pure evil, he played WW before OoT and he felt that there was more to back up his claims of Ganondorf while he played through OoT and many of the reasons are the same as listed here.
The fact that he (the human side) also happens to be a chosen one like Link and Zelda is really interesting and tragic in a way. if it weren't for Demise corrupting that with his hate long before I'm sure he would be reincarnated as a person of justice when something evil falls upon Hyrule. Now that Demise tainted the purity of the gods plan he made it so now its an infinite loop of tragedy because the chosen are just fighting among themselves forever. Hyrule will never prosper substantially and advance ever only momentary peace to be threatened over an over again. I don't think the chosen were supposed to be fighting at all against each other at all. This is a good theory, hell I think it's beyond theory it's definitely the truth of the matter.
Thanks for all the support and debate! Lets see if we can hit 1000 likes!
+HMK This theory seems to throw the 3 timelines into 1 at the beginning.
+HMK 6:08 to answer your question the Triforce doesn't distinguish between good and evil. Watch the ending of ALTTP where the essence of the Triforce speaks with Link. It can't distinguish good vs evil, it only senses balance/ imbalance of virtues.
+HMK Unfortunately, you are just as late to this old theory as you were early on a Kingdom Hearts III trailer livestream.
I have had a similar theory for years. Based heavily off of Wind Waker, Ganondorf is a general good person and king with a want to protect his people and the chosen holder of power as mentioned in Twilight Princess (though all other timelines he takes it by force), Ganon on the other hand is another thing as the pure incarnation of Demise. In the Wind Waker game what I see is Ganondorf in who he really is, having almost full control over his dark side and thus why he does not use his Ganon form or magic as he does not want it to regain capture over him. In the other games Ganon's influence has taken a far deeper hold of Ganondorf, in the downfall timeline its completely taken control of his soul using the Triforce to take control, in the adult timeline it has taken a deep seeded influence over him though not complete control and after the loss of his people and the removal of his ambitions he lets it take hold, in the child timeline Ganondorf is able to overthrow it and its influence is reduced to a significantly smaller effect, only slight adjustments if anything at all rather than corrupting his wishes to be a good king.
Explosive KAMel
The three most popular theories that work on any series ever is 1. Good guy is bad, 2. Bad guy is good, 3. It's all in his mind via death or coma.
Ganondorf is one of those truly tragic figures in gaming.
It was great working with you HMK! The videos turned out great!
Wow this was one of the best collab i've seen from both of your channels to be honest it was hard to choose who video i would watch first so i just watch em both and they were superb topics like this need to be touched up apon more
+M. Productions I have a good question for you! If you were to make a ranking of the strongest the legend of zelda characters. How would the list look like?
R I S E p
Not even a pin from hmk...
It would be funny to see an incarnation of Ganondorf being good instead of evil. As if Link had to travel to a different dimension where he has to stop his evil counterpart while teaming up with the good counterpart of Ganondorf haha
Great video. Loved both episodes of this collaboration.
Windwaker battle alongside Princess Zelda was one of my favorites. I beat that game twice 100% it was so good! Great video!
wait HMK has red hair....is he a ganondorf reincarnate ?!?!? Conspiracy Confirmed!!! xD
In real life there's no 100% good and evil people. Why should games be any different. Link has shown darkness which created Dark Link. Ganondorf has lamented being consumed by power. Demise is the only True evil...maybe.
The saddest thing about Ganondorf, if this video is anything close to the truth, is his existance in Breath of the Wild. This one line that Zelda delivers, that Ganondorf "gave up on reincarnation," leads me to believe that after his ultimate failure in Windwaker he abandoned all hope of restoring his land and people and gave in entirely to Demise's curse, forsaking his humanity and becoming Calamity Ganon.
I think he is just a victim of the system, literally. Sometimes you see the character strugling to be the demon lord reborn and he also has the "lucidity" that he will always be defeated eventually,. Unlike Link and Zelda, Ganon know his destiny beforehand, he knows he will be defeated somehow. This type of chracter development is very clear on Wind Waker, Ganon simply knows he is a pig (literally) ready to be slaughtered. More like a tragical villain than a "good" villain. Demise cursed Ganon to a forever existence of constant defeats, that sucks.
i noticed Ganon was more kind hearted in Wind waker but in Ocarina of time he showed no mercy for the gorons.
He was savage in OoT
indeed but in twilight princess he was pretty bad turning Zelda into his puppet.
I'd like to see an alternate timeline where Ganondorf resisted his evil urges and became a hero and mentor to Link and Zelda.
ocarina of time ganondorf barely "let the tribes live on", he was feeding the gorons to volvagia and froze most of the zora
Vamatti after getting the triforce of power. there's an argument to be made that he was corrupted by it
Also, something else to note: Look at WW Ganondorf's design. When I first knew about WW and saw Ganondorf, I ligitimately thought he was going to be a good guy in that game. He doesn't look like a hateful jerk like his previous incarnation. Instead, he looks thoughtful, composed, almost jolly even. Had it not been for the curse that he realized would seal his fate of becoming the ultimate antagonist, he probably would've be a great ally to Link.
I believe a point was left out that Ganondorf might actually have been trying to AMEND his crimes. Both by trying to restore hyrule and to rebuild his people whom he loved so much, he was trying to amend all the foolish acts he had made as a young man. It was his fault hyrule was destroyed, he was the soul reason the entire Gerudo tribe had been massacred. Yes, he might have been a strategist, but near the end of his life, i can't really call him evil. It seems much more likely that at the end of wind waker, all he really wanted was to do was rectify his crimes and restore the world to peace and prosperity. And maybe just once make the right choice and prove he was more than just a reincarnation of a monster...
One country's conqueror is another country's hero. I think ganon is certainly good by the view of his desire to save his people from the harsh winds of the desert. If it weren't for the Demise' influence, i certainly think he could've been a very good and kind king. He may have even found a less violent way to accomplish his goals. Sadly, he could not even do that. His destiny was set in stone before he even had a chance to choose for himself. It's sad really.
It should be obvious that Ganondorf isn't a normal person, his skin is green.
Twinrova the witch that birthed him had green skin so that alone doesnt make him the incarnation of evil
Ghost Emblem Twinrova isn't a normal person either, she's 2 people.
Some Gerudo just have green skin.
They didn't want a black man to be the bad one. The Gerudo aren't even evil.
I know this is an older Video but a thought hit me while watching
During his Final Fight in OOT with The Hero of Time, Remember he got Stabbed in the Head with the Master Sword...
Could it Be Possible that this one act Free'd Ganondorf from the Evil Inside of him? Perhaps the Master Sword Extracted Demise's Influence over the Gerudo King and By the time Wind Waker's come around... Perhaps He Finally Understood what he Truly was, and While Link had Severed his ties to Demise himself, Ganondorf still had Ambitions to Conquer and Rule Hyrule if any to finally be able to lead his people to Prosperity as he Promised...
I have faith that Gannondorf can and will become good and maybe become an ally of Link and Zelda in the Future.
I'm really willing to see a true "Triforce Heroes" Zelda game.
+Vívio CA2 I wanna see a game were Ganondorf is the good guy and Link and Zelda are evil, sure people might hate it but it would be interesting....
+mech genre/medevil fantasy fan julian Yeah just imagine like in a different universe or something. Ganondorf must staunch the tyranny of Link and Zelda, the people of hyrule as well as the monsters fear Zelda and Link and their "judgement" then you as Ganondorf come in and begin amassing an army against them, collecting weapons and magic and fighting great fairies, that would be awesome!!
"become an ally of Link and Zelda in the Future."
See Super Smash Bros Brawl.
I thought somthing what up when i saw M production and you post the same video at the same time on my sub list xD glad you both got together for this.
I still think he's evil... Everything he said in wind walker just came off as bullshit to me because even when he ruled Hyrule he left his people back in the desert...
"Everything he said in wind walker just came off as bullshit to me because even when he ruled Hyrule he left his people back in the desert..."
Cause he didn't actually rule them at that point. Naboru did and she was in open rebellion against Ganondorf (just a logical deduction). Ganondorf also didn't seem to be as powerful as you'd think in Ocarina of Time-at least not militarily. Aside from the Gerudo thing, there were multiple Hylian settlements that he left relatively untouched like Lon-Lon ranch and Kakariko Village.
You guys did an awesome job on this. You looked at this from the view point of Ganondorf the man without having sympathy for the devil. Theologically, I appreciate the time you and MacIntyre put into this theory.
Ganondorf did nothing wrong.
I've heard this theory many times but you sir did an amazing job of explaining it.
why doesnt ganondorf go to the internet? Because theres to many links
Go to the corner... You know what you fucking did
I just realized that Ganondorf still had the Triforce of Power during the final battle in The Wind Waker even after reassembling the full Triforce from his piece and those of Link and Zelda to make the wish. I always thought the reason he didn't transform into Ganon in the end was because his piece had left him but no. Perhaps he wanted to die after seing his plans failing utterly with Hyrule being completely flooded by the king's wish and only attacked Link so he could as least go out with a battle instead of being stuck underwater (still almost immortal) without a purpose.
2:29 "Malelovent" Lol, it's malevolent.
8:53 You mentioned Ganondorf playing chess, eh? Ganondorf, with the black army, against the white army (the gods).
So racist
Im here for dank memes xddd
+Darcnor DID YOU EXPAND?!?!
+HMK u w0t m8?
no rly w0t do u mean? ;o
+Darcnor EXPANDING DONG xdddd
+Jay Upadhya That doesn't necessarily make him EVIL, though. Stealing is bad, but take Robin Hood, for example: A theif that robs from the rich and gives to the poor. He does something wrong to provide for others, therefore we percieve him as good even before we learn that his loyalties lie with the true King, Richard.
SonicMan X needed way too long for this one, ayy lmao its sanic! I was too slow xddd
Without Demise's curse, Ganon/Ganondorf wouldn't even exist
as a character, yes, but the gerudo would still exist.
A Gerudo man would exist, but it wouldn't be Ganondorf who exists throughout the timeline because the curse is what reincarnated him everytime.
+PJCLink Ganondorf is the origin of the name Ganon, in-universe. The name Ganon did not appear in the timeline until Ocarina of time.
***** That's what I'm saying.
+Sjono The original LOZ had neither the master sword nor demise and the same goes for the Adventure of Link yet Ganon existed and was clearly evil. Maybe its the destiny of the one born to bear the Triforce of power to be evil.
He is clearly bad. If he was good, zelda games wouldn't exist
There have been other Zelda games were Ganondorf wasn't the main guy, where he didn't even exist yet great evil still fell upon the land. There can be a Zelda game were a great evil threatens all of Hyrule and Ganondorf is or becomes one of the good guys. He was chosen by the gods, like Link and Zelda, to wield a piece of the Triforce.
However, Demise's curse corrupted his true purpose and doomed Ganondorf into pursuing the Triforce for himself and his selfish desires, despite how much he wanted a better future for his Gerudo people. If Ganondorf was freed from the curse of Demise, he would easily choose what is truly right and become the honorable king the Gerudo desire and a truly righteous wielder of the Triforce of Power.
Ganondorf wasn't born evil, he was cursed to be evil. Cursed by one harbinging a deep grudge towards the gods themselves.
SegaMaster172 but Demise was eventually out ruled in the fallen timeline and just became Ganon and Ganondorf in the child timeline is the most confusing... I like to believe that every main villain in Zelda has some part of Ganon or Demise in them (except for SS)
I love this theory. It makes sense. In the child timeline, Ganondorf was imprisoned and banished to the Twilight realm before he can do any damage, while still somehow obtaining the triforce beforehand, and in the hero defeated timeline, he was sealed away in the imprisoning war by the seven sages. In both cases, he was defeated by forces from the mortal realm with no divine intervention. This would make more sense to him than divine intervention would, as both cases are simply opposition challenging him. All that would do is make him much angrier, and he would not attempt to gain control with minimal casualties like he did in Wind Waker. It all makes sense.
Trump is more evil than Ganondorf
Hillary is more evil than Trump
Taylor Gilliam both are shitty, feel sorry for america
plot twist: hillary is trump's shadow
America has no sympathy for you either :p
Trumpondorf and Calamity Hillary
A VERY nice interpretation of the available facts. It seems that the Hylians aren't the only ones cursed by Demise.
Very good points here! Some things i did not know and some food for thought. Thank you!
I think in BOTW he is going to be either teaming up with link, or he is going to place himself in a type of jedi like exile.
Very interesting theory. Thanks for making your video's, i really enjoy watching them!
My personal pet theory is that Ganon is the corrupted reincarnation of Groose, whose spirit reincarnates alongside the goddess incarnate and the spirit of the hero perpetually. It is why despite having so many opportunities over the years, he generally never truly harms the two of them when he has the chance. Because deep down at his core, the part that is still untainted by Demise's curse, he recognizes his most cherished friends, Link and Zelda.
This theory is very similar to my own little theory I came up with a while ago. However, I came up with the idea that Ganondorf got possessed by Demise's soul, which was sealed in the master sword in Skyward Sword. And then thus got released from the seal the moment the master sword was pulled from the pedestal in Ocarina of Time. In Wind Waker, I think ganondorf might have been supressing the demon within until the final battle where he
snapped. In the Twilight Princess branch, I think Demise was still in control until the moment at the ending where he lost the triforce of power.
Just my thoughts on it.
Great video btw! I enjoyed it, and it's pretty solid!
I always thought a game where you actually play as a young desert raider Ganon who possibly isn't fully aware of his possession by the great beast Ganon/Demise would be cool. Travel to some sweet lesser known/unknown desert locations, oasises and stuff. By the way... Is Ganondorf actually supposed to be the same guy everytime or it a Triforce Fate/Destiny Reincarnation thing like how Link and Zelda always just get born again, or maybe some Voldemort or Dracula resurrection by minions?
Thanks to you guys, I have a way better idea of how to instruct Ganondorf in my RP setting! Thank you so much!
+Recludere Burn PS: HMK, it's a Kigndom Hearts Setting. I thought you should know.
This made me think of a Zelda game where the end goal is to free ganondorf of Demise's curse once and for all and how much we need that game.
This made me cry. I can't believe I was so blind... he is also a victim.... Ganondorf...
I wondered this myself after my husband got me interested in the lore of the Zelda games. I often questioned why Ganondorf held one of the pieces of the Triforce if he was just out to watch everything burn. The Goddess Din doesn't sound like an inherently evil entity. But then I figured maybe Ganondorf was a prime example of Lord Acton's quote, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Then Skyward Sword came out and introduced Demise the Demon king; thus was added a whole new layer of complexity to Ganondorf. Now there's a whole new reason for Ganondorf to be evil. And so I started to draw the same conclusions you did. That maybe if it weren't for this demon curse Ganondorf could have successfully used his part of the Triforce to help his people and lead them to prosperity. Maybe that's why he was allowed to have it in the first place. True the lore suggests he stole it but if the Goddess really didn't feel he had the right to have the Triforce of strength then I doubt it would have stayed with him.
It would be cool if there was a timeline where Link tries to save Ganondorf from the curse of demise. I doubt it would ever happen though
it might be the story for the breath of the wild. the old man could be ganondorf and the calamity ganon could be the curse itself. maybe he somehow separated himself from the curse. I mean, ganon has been alive for a while, and he knows many things. i would be surprised if he found away to undo the curse. but if this is true, then that means no more ganondorf as a main villain, at least for this timeline.
savagekid94 well Ganon is dead in both the adult and child timelines so this could be a fantastic way to end the age of Ganon
Link's confused look at 7:00 like "Huh? They gave this fool character development? Dafuq?!"
6:57
Dat face is fabulous
I've never even played a Legend of Zelda game. Yet I find this very interesting and informative. Great job yet again HMK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Booba
+The Original Monster fighter Um, WHAT?!
+ItsameAlex My older brother is a huge Legend of Zelda fan. If I have any trouble I'm sure he can give me a few pointers. Thanks for the suggestions!!!!!!!!!
+ItsameAlex Um, ok?
I would say play skyward sword first
I would love a game with Ganondorf as the protagonist where he tries to break free from the eternal curse.
Since Ganondorf's powers were partly sealed by the Master Sword at some point between OoT and TWW, this possibly sealed some of Demise's influence as well, which may have helped Ganondorf realise the truth of his situation, as said in the video.
Even after Link draws the Master Sword and releases his powers, Ganondorf has enough willpower to not fully give in to the darkness, since he now knows that those dark desires are not what he truly wants.
A lot of stories talk about the nature of 'Good' and 'Evil' being just different points of view. Ganondorf is certainly selfish and stubborn, wanting to rule over everything no matter how long it takes or what stands in his way. He's definitely 'Evil' from that perspective.
At The Four Swords Adventure he isn't even born evil, but slowly turned wicked with age. And he was defeated again. Maybe that took another part from Demise away from his soul to peak a little through...
Its an interesting thing to talk about but the choices that Ganondorf makes, take away all the notions that we may have about his possible intentions for good. The way he goes about doing what he desires, is nothing more than the making of evil works. Just because their is a sad story behind the actions one makes, doesn't automatically justify those said actions if they are wrong. People often misconstrue this very important point by making a simple answer complicated for the sake of a good story. I know this is just a video game, but morality is never wrong in and out of real life. Great video and it was a pleasure to watch it guys.
Good Theory HMK. Great videos! :)
I wonder if wishing upon the Triforce, could remove the curse?
I have always thought of Ganondorf as a victim of his mothers' resentment for the kingdom of Hyrule. Remember, it was the first King (If I'm not mistaken) who forced the Gerudo into the desert after, apparently, an age-long war. Ganondorf isn't necessarily "evil". Imagine being a Gerudo, growing up and learning the sordid history of your people through the eyes of those victimized in the first place. Ganondorf's original goal, in my mind, was a sort of reunification of Hyrule. He wanted his people to be prosperous again, and his intentions were noble enough...until he touched the Triforce and what darkness was in his heart was amplified by the Triforce of Power...Mad with power, Demise consumed him (I think, honestly, that somehow TwinRova knew that Demise was still around in some form or another and bound his spirit to Ganondorf's when he was young to make him more powerful in order to fulfill their plans to Overthrow the King of Hyrule). And after Ganondorf was locked away, he had a long-ass time to think about what he'd done, and how badly he'd messed things up for his people as a result, because after OOT, the Gerudo people are nowhere to be seen...Ganondorf is the last of the Gerudo, and he wanted to change this...Any wish he wanted could be granted..and my bet is that he would have wished that he'd never tried to obtain the Triforce in the first place, thus resetting the events leading up to, during, and after OOT. The Gerudo would still be dwelling in the desert, but wouldn't be nearly extinct.
He even mentions his regrets during the final cutscenes of WW.
I really like the theory and character arc you laid out here - it makes a lot of sense; the points you bring up about Ganandorf not using any demonic power in the last battle is especially noteworthy and really cements your argument.
I wouldn't say Gandandorf is Good - his actions and the path he walked clearly put him on the wrong side of the coin -- but I've always felt since WW and you've definitely shown that Ganandorf is not a one-dimensional "Evil For Evil's Sake" character. He is a "Tragic Villain," or, at least, 'tragically a villain.'
If it weren't for Demise, I still think Ganandorf would've been envious and headstrong in the OoT timeline and would've very likely proceeded with his plans to overthrow Hyrule - and I like the idea that he gains the Triforce of Power on his own merit because he's just that committed. While this is "Evil" from the prospective of the Hylians, this would be seen as wonderfully heroic from the pov of the Gerudos -- history records who's "Right" and who's "Wrong."
After all - one could argue the Hylians are evil for not sharing their bounty of crops and land with the poor and suffering Gerudo tribe who are their close neighbors. Hyrule was practically begging for a revolution.
So in OoT - Ganandorf is no more 'evil' than any other King or conqueror in history. ...well...after the 7 year gap he gets pretty evil but...Demise. If he had actually moved the Gerudo tribe into Castle Town and made it thriving - that would've been a different story. The fact he basically makes a tower of hedonism to himself shows that Young Ganandorf is pretty much evil.
I definitely like the idea of the Goddesses smiting Ganandorf because of his link to Demise...but there's a problem with that in so far as 'why give him the chance at all, then?" I guess it's because otherwise we wouldn't have a story...but still. I'm still holding out hope for a game or a manga or SOMETHING that actually covers the period of time where Hyrule is sunk beneath the waters (can you imagine how dope a game would be where you play as Ganandorf and the finale is the GODDESS THEMSELVES fight you in a battle you can't win?).
WW Ganandorf is my favorite character in the LoZ series, and you said all there needs to be said. He's not a "Good" guy but he's not "Evil" either. He has a goal, and that GOAL is actually "good." It's just the actual means he must use to reach that goal are what many would call "Evil." If you look at it one way: WW Ganandorf is spending the entire game trying to save Hyrule, and you stop him by DESTROYING Hyrule at the end. That's actually what happens. Yes he kills people to do it - but again, no more than necessary and he doesn't 'gloat' about his kills. He's just doing what's necessary.
Ganondorf needs his own game. His story has way to many unanswered questions.
Now everytime I remember the final battle against Ganon in Wind Waker... I cry even harder.
you may have just triped over the origin of calamity gannon...what if, apon realizing his fate in this iteration of the cycle ganondorf rebeled against it, and sought out a way to extract the malicious power of demise from himself...but when he did so that power took on a might and a will of its own...and thus was the mindless beast, calamity gannon, born.
I feel like this has one point that could predict something in BOTW; "Ganondorf could have been a righteous king of the Gerudo, if not for Demise's hatred". What if in BOTW, calamity ganon is Demise's hatred in pure form, that left Ganon's physical form. Then he becomes the kind old man at the beginning of the game :)
Ganondorf: I just wanted to save my people from dying.
My theory: Ganondorf knows that calamity comes to Hyrule because of the split triforces. So he tries to fuse them back together so future generations won't have to suffer.
Calamity comes though because of him like 90% of the time.
So, if the Hyrule kingdom met with the Gerodu to discuss a new location to live, regardless of whether or not they lived in Hyrule or just somewhere that breathed life compared to a desert, there might at least be less conflicts.
Other than that, while influenced or even possessed by the curse of Demise, when it came to Ganondorf, the following phrase could possibly be applied: the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
You know, if he hated the brutal desert so much, he could've simply had his people move somewhere else much more livable.
I've always had this idea for a zelda stuck in my head. Its years later, lets say in a timeline in which the gurudo were not killed and ganondorf, link and zelda were all reincarnated again, but this time, with link and and or zelda being the ones to come years before ganondorf's. In this version, link is discovered in childhood to be the chosen hero in childhood, but with no ganondorf to fight against. instead, the sage's raise and train link themselves to eventually challenge this threat. the constant pressure to fight an invisible evil drive this Link to dark and extreme means to prevent the horror's he was warned about as a child. the game would play out as a young ganondorf, burded by the hatred of demise to fight a now zealous link.
That was an awesome video. It really made me see Ganondorf in a new light. Almost feel sorry for him actually.
now, this theory got me thinking. if what some have been speculating for in zelda u, is it possible that gannondorf will play a bigger role than ultimate evil? three theories: gannondorf good, zelda u on a new timeline, gannon will be more of a mentor in zelda u. if on a new timeline, gannon may be evil in the beggining, but instead of passing three trials for the master sword, he starts with it and instead quests to break the demise curse to an extent, (not tied to be link's eternal antagonist). after the first phase of the game (im calling it the trial phase), gannon, link, and zelda, the three triforce wielders must team up to defeat a greater evil, opening the doors for link to learn new techniques and strategies from gannon. if this timeline persists, i suggest the ally or triforce timeline, where the three hero's must team up and defeat evils beyond the powers of the triforce(es) and learn some new secrets about the ancient golden power, possibly finding the final piece to make the complete triforce (not tetraforce, still only has three sides. maybe the full force?). it would be an interesting new story for a 30 year old game series, possibly even drawing in new fans.
How I see this, is that in the OOT timeline Ganondorf was being controlled by Ganon, which would explain why he acted the way he did. After getting the Piece of power Ganon was born as the reincarnation of Demise which took control over Ganondorf, because he wanted strenght for the sake of his people but got turned into a puppet. In which case would explain why in TWW he seems more "human" because some of the influence of Demise could be sealed by the Master Sword so he could have acted on his own. But after the Gods intervined and flooded Hyrule he had enough time to think about why they did it and realised that he was becoming less and less "human". After realising this he probaly remembered who he was and why he did what he did but also knew he couldn't change the things he did. But with the Time sealed he probaly learned how to control his power which could be the reason why there is the Boss PuppetGanon in TWW. So instead of being a Puppet of Demise he made his "Dark Side" into a Puppet which would not take him over again and only using the power he aquired throu fair means. I personaly like to think of Ganondorf as someone who isn't "Evil" but as someone whose heart was the cause of his actions. He only wanted to help his people but his wish for power and the curse from Demise turned him into a puppet. Also the concept of "Good and Evil" is always questinable. A action can be good for many but for some it will be seen as something evil.
Ganondorf, the literal embodiment of the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
During the adult timeline, before windwaker, maybe Ganondorf's action were to save the Garudo from extinction, which they would have experienced anyway in the childhood timeline, and the end result was Hyrule being submerged under water, rather than the Garudo being tortured and wiped out by the other races, like in majora's mask and twilight princess!
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Yes Ganondorf is good from a certain perspective however by the end of the games the Triforce of Power has corrupted him leading to mutual destruction for all of Hyrule
Thank you for this theory.... it just show how awesome my favorite character in the series is
It's good to see a partnership between HMK and M. Productions! You guys understand a lot of Hyrulean History! I feel bad about the Gerudos, forced to live in the desert and left to die. Ganondorf in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker is just trying to make justice about the genocide of Gerudo race and Link in OoT/TP/WW is just a tool or a "puppet" of the Hyrulean Royal Family to make sure that the Hylian people will conquer all the territories. Ganondorf stopped the execution and in the end, was stabbed to death by the Hero of Twilight (helped by the Hero of Time) in the end of TP, but i don't understand why he wanted to bring back Hyrule in the end of WW, if Hyrule is flooded and forgotten in the depths of the Great Sea, so, Hylians are "dead" and he could live peacefully in the ocean.
About the hatred of Demise in Skyward Sword, i didn't understand at all. He said that all incarnations of Link and Zelda will be cursed but if Ganon (Possibily the incarnated Demise) is dead after TP/WW, the curse is still working in Four Swords Adventures and in Spirit Tracks? I'm so confuse.
+TDPI Ellafan Hm, but i think that Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker is the same. Maybe only Ganon from Four Swords Adventures is another incarnation because Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time was killed in Twilight Princess.
he does have control over himself but Demise is just trying to make Ganondorf do evil and Ganondorf doesn't mean to be evil but he can't help it!
I've always wondered about if Ganon was based on Ramses II. I mean, he's a ruler of the desert. He has red hair. He was believed to be immortal due to living for an impossibly long time in those days (he lived to be around 90), though Ganon reincarnates. Given that 9 pharaohs who came after were also named Ramses in his honor, that could be why every Ganon is Ganon. The first part of his rule was focused on building rather than warfare. Oh yeah, and he goes to war. The Gerudo could be a reference to the Sherden pirates. His distaste for the goddesses or Hyrule could be like Ramses' dislike for Amarna or it's religious practices, though that's quite the stretch.
... Or perhaps i've just always been overthinking it.
And then Calamity Gannon in Breath of the Wild through the complex character out the window.
Cons and Pros to the theory of a good Ganondorf:Pros: 15 minutes of competent research video and deep lore analysis. Cons: He gets freaking flames behind him while riding his horse guys! ì__í
it would be a cool idea to think that the reason why ganondorf keeps coming back, why the seals inevitably fail is because somewhere deep down, ganondorf is good. the master sword, the "bane of evil" should basically obliterate him as the reincarnation of demise, right? but before all that, he was a gerudo first. no race in hyrule is inherently evil. maybe the gods wanted to give him a chance in the next life. link and zelda were there to defeat him just in case.
Well....okay then. This just turned Ganondorf into one of my most favorite villains of all time....Holy shit.