I can't imagine dialing in a studio tone with speakers. I always dial in my tones with headphones - and when I run through the board if they run me flat I always sound the same. Every time I sound different there is some active filter or something they forgot to remove - I can instantly hear it - then they remove it and it sounds great. This works with every modeler I've tried.
Great video. I am using a pair of Tech 21 Power Engines and I am happy with them. They are not true FRFR but close enough for my ears. And they are real cabinets. Just a home recorder.
Hey TW, thanks for this awesome video and the accompanying demo video. It changed my life. I wasn't able to purchase the Friedman (budget), but after watching your video I looked at active monitors with the characteristics you talk about in your video (namely high quality drivers and a wooden enclosure; it also has oversized heat syncs, is fan cooled, has tons of headroom and sounds very transparent) and found a Fender Fortis F-12BT in an open box with a price I couldn't resist. I rolled the dice and I'm so glad I did. I cannot believe the difference between it and my JBLEON 612. Like night and day. I don't know if it's the drivers, the cab or both, but it sure seems like the wooden enclosure made all the difference in the world from my plastic EON, which sounded okay, but somewhat sterile, not good at high volumes and had a tendency to overheat if I pushed it a bit. Anyway, thank you.
Master6String you're so welcome! I'm so glad that our information here helped you. Isn't it awesome when you find something that works for you? Rock on buddy and enjoy dialing in the best tone you've ever had.
IMHO no need to overcomplicate things nor overthink them. If using a modeler and playing venues straight to FOH, setup your patches using a high quality PA monitor such as QSC, JBL, Bose, Yamaha, etc. since this is exactly what is going to be pumped out from FOH to your audience. Setting up your patches to sound great on your backline or stage monitor will only result in your sole satisfaction and not necessarily that of your audience which should be the priority of concern. I play through high-end amp/cabs at home but build presets through PAs. I highly recommend checking out the QSC K12's as a solid choice. This is just the opinion of an old man so your mileage may vary. Regards.
I agree with everything you say. Dialling in a sound goes through many procedures. We spend so much time creating a great sound and then put it through a horrible speaker. The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is this: After spending a lot of time dialling in the right sound through a great FRFR speaker for our own stage sound, what about FOH? For example, we send Output 1 to FOH (AXE FX) and Output to to our monitor. So after all that work we've done, our FOH sound is most likely going to - two plastic speakers!! So the work pays off when we hear ourselves onstage, but FOH is still going to plastic PA speakers with a shitty sound! It's like, as guitar players, we can't solve everything! I'm sure some FOH speakers are made of wood but most of the pubs I play at that have in house PAs, have flown plastic FOH speakers! What do we do then? We'll always have a great onstage sound but not a great FOH sound - and though the FOH guy can EQ our sound, we're actually only solving half the problem!
Your title says "Important" but for a second I thought it said, "Impelliteri." I thought maybe you were gonna give us an Impelliteri shred demo! Ha! Great video....
I'm using a QSC K12.2 for my FRFR set to studio monitor. I am also new to the helix. At first the sound was way off, but reading, reading, reading... Found out I had to cut the lows around 100 and the highs around 8. I was told this is because a normal guitar amp speaker would never produce those frequencies, so if you don't cut them out, it sounds like crap. It's better, but still needs more work.
Absolutely true brother! That’s why I got my Friedman FRFR.... It’s also true for amplifiers as well. I play my Friedman BE100 through a Friedman 412 and the same goes for my Marshall, VOX, Soldano, Randall and other heads as well.. It’s like pairing fine wine with food... No one wants to drink milk when they are eating sushi...lol... I mean we all do crazy stuff like that....lol.. But, to get the best experience or in this case the best sound you want to use the best equipment you can. It has nothing to do with being a equipment snob. It’s all about your ears and a true flat response.... Great video!!!!
we need an updated version with the laney lfr-212 and lfr-112 any other frfr cab since 2017 when this was made....and then the frfr celestion speakers in a 2x12 and 4x12 cabinet also would be nice
I've had good luck dialing in tone thru studio monitors (even cheap ones with 5" speakers). I was worried the first time I ran direct to a very nice PA (casino gig), but it sounded great, left the eq on the mixer flat. Later I did the same to a low end Peavey set up, and it only needed minor eq tweaks. My rig was set up faster than anyone else. I am looking to get a FRFR for my stage volume, though, and this video was very helpful.
IMO the Mission sounded best but I realize that's not the point. Best doesn't always equate to accurate depending on how your unit is dialed in. Also sounding best would be subjective. Understanding that this is the point of this video I'm betting either it or the Friedman were the most transparent. I think it would be interesting to see each cab tested with a spectrum analyzer, each cab having pink noise run through them, same can position, same mic positioning and same DB level. Also it would be interesting to see if a cab could be made more accurate using the same procedure with a graphic EQ. If so then you could say this cab sounds like crap because it's mids are exaggerated in this range etc
Tom White hey Tom, thanks for commenting. I really like what you said here. I would love to see analytics for these cabs/monitors as well. Like you, I want the most transparent FRFR cab I can get. Here's a video that I posted comparing my direct recorded tone to the cabs. Let me know what you think. ruclips.net/video/EdcdHTvgCOM/видео.html
Very informative. The Mission Gemini sounded the best and most transparent IMO. Have you tried the Headrush 108 or 112? Would be interesting to hear those compared to the Gemini.
This is a great video and explains literally what happened to me today at our practice today! I thought I had my sound/tones locked down & good to go here at my house, then leave to go to practice and all of tones sounded thin and tingy and high pitched like there weren't any Mids within the tones. Threw me for a loop and had to revert back to my previous pedal board to find out the practice. Came home and started looking into why and came across your video, glad I did! This helps understand alot more of what I'm dealing with! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Gemini sounds awesome (personally I would dial out a bit of the WOOF) but at $1700 USD ... WOW !! That said, I wish you had an Alto in there since that is also a popular FRFR in the lower price range. I was surprised the Behringer did as well as it did considering the price difference from the Gemini
I’m playing an ax8 through a Mackie mixer into 2-15 yr old Behringer cabs. Can’t imagine having a better sound for the money. Running everything flat and have used same settings in recording with no issues. God with all the available eq options only a minor tweak if any is necessary! If you start with a buzz saw tone, no speaker system will help you out much. Point is if your playing out your going to be playing through a P A. Surely your not going to just use FRFR cab.
Let me get this strait for studio applications you are taking a Kemper and your FRFR cab into a studio. Using your FRFR cab as a monitor and micing it to the studio board. Cant you just emulate the FRFR speaker cab sound at the Kemper or the board (IR) (throw some headphones on). If you can then you are just using your FRFR Cab as local monitor to hear your dialed in sound for playing live. Pushing air into a room while your standing next to your cab is just for your sake. What goes to the board is what matters. Or rather what happens at the board is really what matters.
I would simply bring whatever amp or powered speaker I used at home to the gig/studio. Simply use one that has enough power, or if necessary get it mic'ed up at the gig along with the other instruments, amps, etc
If you're trying to decide what to buy, you might consider getting a used Atomic Reactor. They make 2 tube-based FRFR models - the 112 and the 50-watt version. I had the 112 (18 watts) and sold it for the 50-watt version, primarily because the 50 watt version has more features. (I'm not a professional and 18 watts is loud enough to play with a drummer, so I didn't need the additional power.) Another option is the Laney IRT-X. This is designed to be an "expansion" cabinet for your existing amplifier, but it is FRFR and can be used stand-alone. It has some nice features and can sometimes be gotten used on eBay/Reverb. (I paid < $250 for mine.)
I'm a guitar nerd and I really enjoy your analysis of the gear. Finally a place I can go and get an accurate break down, both good and bad. This episode really hit home I have been using a Mackie DLM 12 and DLM 12S for my Helix and Roland GR-55. It sounded great in my studio and then I ventured out to the world and it sounded so woffy it drove me nuts all night. This video explains it. Thanks off to look at a Line 6 PowerCab 2-12... Thanks again.
Thank you so much for commenting and sharing this with me. I'm so glad that my videos are helping people. I just reviewed the Line 6 powercab 2x12. It's actually a really good product.
Yeah, the Gemini seems to sound very real. Does it translate very well/with a lot of accuracy? I thought that and the friedman were my favorites, but the Friedman seems to have so much midrange.
They are both great products. Out of the two, I definitely prefer the Friedman though. in my humble opinion, the friedmen represented my direct recorded tone the best
@@TONEWARSgearshow Oh really!? Good to know, thank you. From what I could tell online I thought the gemini was more transparent. I'd prefer the simpler of the two and more accurate sounding, but also the one that is most fun to play in the room
If your not using the same speakers as the studio your going to have to tweak your settings. Good video, it shows that even frfr speakers all color your sound differently. Same as guitar speakers.
I was very impressed with this sound test. I feel very nervous, because I'm about to purchase a Helix LT , but I still have my Marshall MG 102 CFX and don't know how it's gonna sound or if I should connect the Helix to the return loop effect and switch off the cab block. Now I know for sure that a I need an FRFR speaker like the Line 6 Powercab 112, but It will have to wait, since I live in Chile and they are quite expensive 😟. Have you ever test a Headrush 112 BTW????
One thing that would be interesting is to see how close you can dial in say...the Mackie Thump 12 to the Friedman. Many people who can’t afford a high end FRFR might be able to borrow one and “tone match” it...🤷🏻♂️
great video just completely confused.. if 2 cabs are frfr they should sound the same right? or at least pretty close given the different builds.. the mission and Friedman sounded vastly different.
tanza14 Thank you, I'm glad you like the video. I totally agree with you as well. They all sound different even though a lot of them claim to be full range flat response. Check out this video of me comparing each cab to my direct recorded tone. Let me know what you think ruclips.net/video/EdcdHTvgCOM/видео.html
tanza14 I’m with you. Plus, if all eq levels aren’t set flat across the board, isn’t the tone being colored from the get? It’s super subjective. I’ll say this...the Mission and Friedman are likely the easiest to dial in, because of the r&d, and quality. You’re starting from a good scratch. Great video tho. Much appreciated. Kinda wish you would have said which ones got you closest to a hassle-free transition in a studio/live. Gotta guess it’s the Mission/Friedman? Thanks for the vid.
Silly question: would it make sense to take a reference track (Bohemian Rhapsody, Jesus of Suburbia, Master of Puppets, what have you, something that everyone is familiar with) and line-in it into each speaker? Shouldn't it demonstrate the flatness of each speaker in a similar manner to how people are testing studio monitors and headphones?
The mission sounds great but for that money, as a sound guy, I'd buy 2 qsc K12 speakers. They have a new model out now, the .2 series so the originals should have some good deals going on. Just my two cents. It's a beautiful can though.
aaron holder thanks for commenting. I actually did a shootout with the Friedman and the QSC speakers. The Friedman sounded much better. Check it out and let me know what you think.
Thanks for the info dude. I am dealing with this now. I just bought the AX8. It's been a real pain just find a good tone. I absolutely agree with you on a wood cab. Have looked at the Engl, orange an Marshall 2 12 cabs. Also dealing with reackmount amp vs head. Like the BE 100. I bought the AX8 so I wouldn't have to spend 2 to 3 grand on a head plus a cab. Going to back off for a bit and let the sound come to me... Thanks again
I'm more intrigued by the Tech21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe with 1x12", on/off tweeter, wood build, rear breathing ports, HPF/LPF, 3EQ. anyone else try it?
Last year my band played a lot of shows until the virus, my friends and family complained not about my playing but about my tone I was using a Headrush powered speaker, as I had time off from work I made some adjustments to the hi and lo cut of the speaker cabs in my Helix not sure if it helped because I haven't played out, the band I was in would get pissed if I plugged into the house so I only did a few times, I got a Katana ii and there is a amp input for guitar processors, is there anything else I can try? love this channel
Thank you for this. Transparency, accuracy, and repeatability MATTER! For all the marketing towards pretengineers and guitar players, all the audiophile psuedoscience nonsense and myths designed to separate you and your wallet from reason, having as flat a base as possible to start with will allow you to make decisions with actual predictability.
Martin Crane Perfect thoughts. Maybe the biggest flaw in all of this, is that some expect digital to transfer exactly to live/studio. Even then, I’ve never taken my Mesa Recto25 from my home studio, and didn’t need to dial in again at rehearsals/stage. Every environment is different, and every speaker is different.
What I got from this is 1) you “NEED” a flat response, full range to not color your sound and 2) all the flat response full range speakers tested here colored the sound in very different ways.
So basically all we can learn from this is that speakers sounds different and that you don't like speaker made out of plastic (and btw you can make great speakers from other materials than wood). The viewer still have no clue which speaker works the best. If you want to know which speaker is most transparent you need to use a proper measurement setup in damped or anechoic room using flat response measuring mic's (or you could measure windowed chirps to remove reflections). This would provide knowledge about the speakers and an explanation of why they sound different. The least you could do is to provide a list of used equipment as well as description of the setup.
How do you feel about the powercab ? I pulled the trigger on a kemp head and remote even though I been using helix but I’m going to need a frfr being I have been using the helix 4cm with a tube amp. Also, have you used the kemper with a tube amp? Like going in the amp effects return to utilize the power amp section?
I think the kemper sounds best when he run it through a tube power Amp and real cab. It shines big time. I actually think the power cab is a decent unit. That said, the Kemper Kab is more suitable for the kemper because of the features that it has. It sounds really good as well. Keep in mind it's not powered though.
TONE WARS do you think it sounds ok ran through the power section of a tube amp via effects return then into cab? Thanks for responding . Nobody in RUclips , but you and a few, talk any about how to actually route the kemper or the helix
Thanks for the video, I leally liked it. I'm pondering a Friedman ASM-12 with Ace-FX III going along with a Majesty Monarchy. Given the concerns that you've addressed in the video, does this sound like a reasonable platform? I am specifically asking in terms of the actual FRFR model choice for and the modeller. Thanks!
Thank you very much for your reply. I hate to be asking, but how would you view it relative to a Gemini Wedge (if you have had the pleasure of using the latter), tonally speaking? Entirely subjectively speaking from my angle here, I find a lot more pronounced sparkle, or the high-end in the Gemini when compared to the Friedman in question. Thanks for your time, and keep on rocking!
TheToneZone you're very welcome. They are both fantastic products. If you play modern metal, djent, prog and heavier type stuff, the Friedman would be more what you are looking for. If you're playing more classic or blues or jazz then go with the mission.
When I'm live via my unit, I'm generally sending my rockets into a 3 way and sometimes 4 way system with the crossovers set correctly to suit the system and environment, oh yes it separates the wheat from the chaff no problem.✅
People dont understand what sounds good in the room usually wont work in a mix lol.Ive found it best to get the source tones through studio monitors.I had a mackie thump had to cut alot of the low end for it to even sound good in the room.If you want that real amp in the room tone u need a "Real wood" cab lol 2x12 is my fav.You could even just get a cheap 2x12 combo and just throw it in the return of the effects loop.
Question: so which of the cabs would you say is actually the most accurate? Because at the end of the video, you say that's the most important point, and that some of them didn't sound bad, but weren't accurate. So which of them is accurate, and the most colorless?
Have you ever tried the Helix through Yamaha DBR12s? It's a plastic PA/Monitor wedge. Wanted to know what you thought of it as far as accuracy/consistency.
James Burwell yes I have. IMHO, it's the best poly enclosed unit so far. It's not as dull as the others. That said, I st I'll ll prefer the Friedman. More transparency, rage and balls
Hey man, that was a great video! What do you recommend for people that own the helix and are only using it for home recording purposes. I’m looking for a monitor that will give me the flat response that sounds exactly like what the helix should be producing but I don’t need lots of volume I just need accuracy
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like the video. For home recording, I would recommend a really good pair of powered studio speakers. If you want a cab, the Friedman ASC 12 is very accurate and punchy
Hey thanks bro, I appreciate the response back. The Friedman's look like a great product, but probably more than I need, and probably more geared toward live applications (I think, but correct me if wrong... then again, perhaps that was the point of your response). Have you been hearing about any specific studio monitors that are well suited for FRFR?
I'd love to spend $600, but I know that's pretty limiting... perhaps $800. After doing more research today, I'm thinking about a pair of Yamaha HS8's which would put me at around $700 new.
What would be a good portable speaker option for traveling? I am looking for an small speaker to use with my Kemper Stage when I go away for a weekend to my cabin or jam with friends in a small room. This would not be my main rig. I was looking at the Bose S1 or JBL EON One Compact. I like how they would be a dual threat for an acoustic guitar too. Is this an option worth considering? I play as low as drop A#. Thank you
Hello Michael, great question. I would 100% recommend to Friedman ASC 10. It's very small compared to bigger cabs and it only weighs just over 30 lbs. It sounds just as good as the bigger asc-12 version.
Thank you. This cab could also be used with gigging with a drummer in a band not going direct? I imagine it would also be better for programming my Kemper vs my single EV PA speaker? Do these cabs do vocals too when plugged into a board? Thanks again
@@michaelstewart2437 you're welcome. Depending on how loud your drummer plays, this will keep up with him no problem. it's made for a personal monitor for you. You definitely don't want to mic it for the front of house. For FOH, I would go direct. I would absolutely recommend dialing in your sounds with this particular cab. It's very flat and we'll give you a true representation of your tone. I've never put vocals through it but I sure that they will sound good enough for you to use as a map to get through the show and to know where you're at with each song
@@michaelstewart2437 as far as I know, the new Kemper cab is not powered yet. I could be wrong about that though. So far, based on my experience, the Friedman ASC 10 and asc-12 are the best
Great video, thanks (and subscribed!) I’m just starting to learn about these new gen multi effects boards. My last one was a Boss ME something from 2004. Now I play a mark v with full pedal board set up. What are your thoughts on getting rid of the pedal board but running a helix or fractal into a Mesa amp using 4CM?
Thanks so much for subscribing! Regarding your question, go for it. I run my helix via 4cm with my Synergy rig. It switches everything and gives me great fx.
you prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot my login password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Dakota Layne i really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Hey man thanks for this video. Can i ask you 2 questions? The Behringer b215a is an active pa speaker, right? Can i connect my multi effects unit straight into something like the Behringer B215A?
Great video. I'm completely new to digital gear. I bought a line 6 hx stomp for use with amps modeler only. I am currently using the stomp on the return of the laney Lionheart 5w combo FX loop but I am not completely satisfied. I would like to try a FRFR cab. I'm undecided between Headrush cab and line 6 power cab 112. What would you recommend from these two?
Sorry, this really isn't my area. What are we listening to here? Is the Freidman and the Gemini actual guitar speakers, and the rest are a mix of ABS PA speakers, and flat response guitar amplifiers? And if I'm sort of on the right track here... The cab sims are off with the actual guitar cab, right? How are they being powered, through a flat response reference amplifier? Again, this really isn't what I know anything about, so if I've completely got this wrong, I apologize. Or is the Freidman and the Gemini a flat response guitar speaker?
What do you think of Splawn cabinets? I don't believe they offer FRFR speakers/cabs, but I've heard good things about their designs. I own a Kemper and am considering either a Headrush FRFR or a Splawn vertical 2x12 with Celestion Creambacks. Mission is so fucking expensive. $1600? I just spent $2600 on the powered Kemper lol. Please let me know your thoughts.
Greg Capra I appreciate your question. I haven't tried the splawn vertical cab. If you want a really good FRFR option, I would suggest the Friedman ASC 12.
Are you on Facebook by any chance? The reason I ask is because I've narrowed down my next cabinet purchase between the new LINE 6 POWER CAB 1x12 & the SPLAWN VERTICAL 2x12. One conclusion I've come to is that (for example) if you own a KEMPER & have Cabinet Emulation turned on & then have your cabinet mic'd, it has a 99% chance of sounding like shit. Based on the profiles you have stored & programmed in your Kemper will determine how rich or shrill-sounding they are. The 2nd half of the tone battle is EQ'ing those respective profiles to the best of your ability & preference. From my personal experience as a performing guitarist & musician, if you have Cabinet Emulation (the Cabinet button on your Kemper) TURNED ON & you're plugged into a PHYSICAL CABINET & that Cabinet is MIC'd, you're profiles & overall tone is most likely going to sound like SHIT LOL! So, suggestions: Choose 1-10 of the most useful, rich-sounding clean, over-driven & distorted profiles. Save & assign them accordingly via Rig Manager & to your Profiler Remote (Floorboard). Whether playing @ home or live on stage: If you have CABINET turned on (CABINET BUTTON LED LIGHT IS ON) & you're connected to a physical 1x12 / 2x12 / 4x12 / FRFR > TURN THE CABINET BUTTON OFF & NOTICE IMMEDIATELY HOW MUCH BETTER, FULLER & CLEARER YOUR PROFILES SOUND. The CABINET button makes sense to turn on when you aren't connected to a Cabinet & you are practicing with headphones on. Then it will give you that "AMP IN THE ROOM SOUND." I want to personally thank TONE WARS because if it weren't for this video, I wouldn't have been enlightened on the concept & technology of FRFR (FULL RANGE, FLAT RESPONSE) speakers & acoustics. MY FINAL QUESTION TO THOSE READING THIS: I'm torn between purchasing the LINE 6 POWER CAB 1x12 & the SPLAWN VERTICAL 2x12. The 2x12 has 2 speakers (obviously), heavy duty handles, takes up less space in your room & on stage & has Celestion Creambacks. The Line 6 Powercab 1x12 "Does for cabinet emulation what the Kemper does for amp profiling" in that it has 5-10 profiled speakers. Sorry if this was a long post, but hopefully this will be helpful to those reading & maybe I'll get suggestions to the future purchase I intend to make. Happy Reading & Rock on Ya'll!! facebook.com/gcapra81
So which do you find gives you a reference sound? I’m assuming it’s the Mission Gemini? I say this because to my ears all the others sounded, well, not so good. Great video and yes, you need a speaker that will translate to accurate FOH unless you are just going to mic the cab.
In your video the Friedman sounded more like a gutiar cabinet , but they are also more expensive than alot of other FRFR cabs out there. If you are looking for one to use in a live setting and have the money thats cool, but if someone justs wants one for practice I think they should check out something more reasonable priced like the headrush or alto
@@TONEWARSgearshow Thanks for your reply, I will start checking into this then, I'm really looking for something to run a Amptweaker tight metal pro through for practice at home
Thanks for this video. The difference between the expensive and inexpensive speakers is stark. Are you saying that when you dial in what you’re looking for on a true FRFR at home, then that tone will transfer accurately to FOH (subject to minor tweaks)?
Do you run your impulse responses into the Friedman/Mission cabs? If so, why? Wouldn't that be like having a large cup of coffee, then you put a smaller cup of coffee inside the bigger cup before you will drink it?
GREAT VID! I AM JUST NOW LOOKING AT FRFR OR STUDIO MONITORS. I AM WANTING TO BUILD MY OWN CAB WITH AN FRFR SPEAKER. CAN U RECOMMEND A QUALITY SPEAKER AND SET UP? THANKS
I have a question. What is Line6 L3M “reference setting?” And Line6 L3M “ele guitar setting?” The “ele guitar settting” sounds lightyears better than reference setting. How do we get that kind of setting? Thanks this video has helped alot.
I think you forgot option #4... Some people just suck at dialing in a good tone lol. Not necessarily always the engineer. I dig your tones so I'm not referring to you, but in general some people have a tough time dialing in a good tone because they don't know what goes into dialing it in right.
So, I have a Kemper 600W powered head & just recently learned about FRFR technology. I'm looking to get a new 2x12 cabinet. Either a Splawn vertical 2x12 with creamback Celestions, a Mission 2x12 FRFR cab or a Headrush FRFR Floor cab for $300. What do you suggest & why? The Mission is good, but it's fucking $1600 lol.
I too am in the fr cab dilemma. Friedman asm12, mission Gemini , or clear atomic. It seems in this video the Friedman is rather scooped and the Gemini a bit brighter. Personally I think in this video the Friedman was nice and warm but lacked some high frequencies vs the mission. So question is what was more accurate in this video for what you we were after. Friedman or mission? I am only looking for home use but I do want a stage level powerhouse and feel n the room. Thinking about two of whatever product I go with. Why not. 🤘Thank you for your contributions and time. Superb reviews my friend.
Hi, I have a Gemini 1 and I find it’s distorting if the master on the helix is turned up. Is that clipping? I wouldn’t have expected that as I thought it was powerful. Where do you run your master on your helix into the frfr?
TONE WARS The problem I face is I need to have the master up to full for the pa to get a decent signal. So obviously this is making the speaker clip on the mission, is there a way of having less volume go through one xlr output than the other one?
Very interesting test. Great player, great sound, except for the mackie and line 6; those sounded awful. IN blind tests, The Behringer sounded best to me. The Freidman was awful out of the high dollar stuff----In my opininon. Here is what I did. I went to the 4 main clubs ( I live in a very small town in MO) and found out what equipment they used. All of them used a large board (behringer or mackie) and EV speakers/monitors. All had EV speakers and monitors. I could not afford EV so I bought the Powered monitors that sounded most like the EV's at a very loud bedroom volume. Not scientific but close enough. Going from a Freidman or MIssion to a FOH board/monitor/speaker setup would be disastrous in my opinion.Especially when you add in a board. In addition, NONE of the "sound guys" even knew what a Helix or a Fractal was and this was in 2017. I am sure in bigger cities this would not be an issue but it is here and I suspect in other small towns as well. I think if you approximate the setup used in your live venue, and work with that, you are in a better postion than working with Freidmans or Mission One, THEN going into a live setting. Just my thoughts. By the way, in all 4 settings, they asked me to "setup that weird shit" so I did. In addition, Accurate is a strange way of looking at this. I see what you are saying, though. Your Mesa should sound like a Mesa and a Marshall should sound like a Marshall. However; find me two of those amps that sound the same. I've tried for years. Two mesa's in a music store sound different every time. So in my long winded rambling opinion ACCURACY DOES NOT MATTER, great tone does. You can sound like a mesa going into a behringer just like you could into a EV/board. The idea is "similar" not identical. Great video and I love your channel And that guitar was absolutely gorgeous. ----Ben
Love your Monarchy, do you find it a challenge going back and forth from the bolt-on neck of the BFR (I think that’s right) to the all access neck of the Monarchy?
ronnieparfait thank you. I love it too. I actually talk about that very thing in my review of the Monarchy. There is definitely an adjustment period of 10 to 15 minutes when I go from one to the other. That said, they both have definitive characteristics that make them special in their own way.
So, given that all of the "FRFR" offerings in the shootout sound VASTLY different, there is obviously coloration across the board. How do you determine where transparency lies?
Duane Harlick great question. To be totally transparent myself, this wasn't a shootout between FRFR cabs. It was a shootout between FRFR cabs and commonly used monitors. The Friedman and the Gemini cab were the only FRFR cabs in this video. To your great question, use whatever FRFR cab that is closest to your direct studio tone.
Rob Groden no. It's a decent speaker for FOH. If you're gonna use it for FRFR keep it in reference mode. The guitar mode sounds awful. The Friedman is a true FRFR and has balls for days!
TONE WARS Thanks for the reply. I purchased it thinking it was FRFR as I had seen a ton of people suggest it. I’ve recently started running it in reference mode, I was letting it default to floor monitor mode originally.
This past weekend I spent time developing tones using Bias FX/Bias Amp on my iPad with a great set of multi-driver headphones. I did a gig NYE with the iPad straight to the board (using a DI) and the results were great. So I can see the value in using a "transparent" sound source to develop your tones. That way, they carry over wherever you end up using them.
WOW that Line6 FRFR sounded like C-R-A-P and for the $$ they want for it...wow. Great comparison. Im looking for a FRFR for my home hobby use at home (not live/not pro gigs outdoors/not studio) to use with my Line6 Firehawk FX guitar processor for electric and acoustic guitars but am on a tight budget of < $350 so what is the best home/hobby use FRFR out there? any ideas? Better to just use 2 stereo powered monitors? or a cab/wedge PA? thanks for your feedback. B
The Line 6 FRFR in reference mode is decent. The guitar mode SUCKS! To your question, if you're on a budget, the Mackie MR6 mk3 studio monitors will work great. They provide great stereo imaging and transparency. You are much better off with the those rather than a substandard wedge. I love mine.You can get them here - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EA1W1M0/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00EA1W1M0&linkCode=as2&tag=tonewars-20&linkId=a75122b74eb94ce57a2874956ccac058
Check on the new Headrush FrFr..... sounds incredible, will work great for you and has the shocking price of only $300. This unit should be going for $799 easy. Check out their website HeadRushfx.com these things are unreal for the price. And they go to 11!
Need a update, what about the line6 power cab 112 plus or the headrush 112 I'm only concerned about clear and accurate sounding in the room for practice-
@@TONEWARSgearshow Thank you, I started playing guitar later in life and it m still using my spider jam. I watched this video when you first released it and it was very helpful because I wanted to get a kemper- So thank you for explaining what frfr speakers are, because I had no idea what my next step was going to be in the bottomless pit $$$$$ of the tone chasing game. You saved me alot of money. The kemper and gemini are wonderful but I went with the line 6 and a headrush pedal, I hope the search is over! 😁
@@RichardLuna2025 I'm glad you found what works for you!! Thanks for the kind words too. By the way, I'm uploading an episode today about the digital platform rabbit hole. I hope you enjoy that as well. Happy New Year
well, from my blind listening to this video, sounds like I need to look into one of those Behringers. Sounded nearly as good as the expensive options (Mission and all) but I'm sure it is way less expensive. I'm sure your goal was to point out that you need a wood cab, but I didn't hear that in this blind test...
![Do You Need FRFR For Your Modeler? [Here's why I stopped using FRFR]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ym8KVEQ3lZ4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Do You Need FRFR For Your Modeler? [Here's why I stopped using FRFR]](/img/tr.png)
I can't imagine dialing in a studio tone with speakers. I always dial in my tones with headphones - and when I run through the board if they run me flat I always sound the same. Every time I sound different there is some active filter or something they forgot to remove - I can instantly hear it - then they remove it and it sounds great. This works with every modeler I've tried.
I swear by the Laney FR 212 cab. They sound incredible!
Great video. I am using a pair of Tech 21 Power Engines and I am happy with them. They are not true FRFR but close enough for my ears. And they are real cabinets. Just a home recorder.
Hey TW, thanks for this awesome video and the accompanying demo video. It changed my life. I wasn't able to purchase the Friedman (budget), but after watching your video I looked at active monitors with the characteristics you talk about in your video (namely high quality drivers and a wooden enclosure; it also has oversized heat syncs, is fan cooled, has tons of headroom and sounds very transparent) and found a Fender Fortis F-12BT in an open box with a price I couldn't resist. I rolled the dice and I'm so glad I did. I cannot believe the difference between it and my JBLEON 612. Like night and day. I don't know if it's the drivers, the cab or both, but it sure seems like the wooden enclosure made all the difference in the world from my plastic EON, which sounded okay, but somewhat sterile, not good at high volumes and had a tendency to overheat if I pushed it a bit. Anyway, thank you.
Master6String you're so welcome! I'm so glad that our information here helped you. Isn't it awesome when you find something that works for you?
Rock on buddy and enjoy dialing in the best tone you've ever had.
Thank you. My Helix never sounded better. Cheers!
IMHO no need to overcomplicate things nor overthink them. If using a modeler and playing venues straight to FOH, setup your patches using a high quality PA monitor such as QSC, JBL, Bose, Yamaha, etc. since this is exactly what is going to be pumped out from FOH to your audience. Setting up your patches to sound great on your backline or stage monitor will only result in your sole satisfaction and not necessarily that of your audience which should be the priority of concern. I play through high-end amp/cabs at home but build presets through PAs. I highly recommend checking out the QSC K12's as a solid choice. This is just the opinion of an old man so your mileage may vary. Regards.
Completely new to FRFR. This was really useful. Thanks man. Subbed!
cosycampbell thank you! Which FRFR are you going with?
The Gemini and the Line 6 sounded best to me. I use the L2t at home and as a monitor or an amp at gigs. It's heavy but I think I will stick with it.
Your middle eastern mix was awesome. Amp just needed a softer mid range.
I’m trying to figure out if I learned more about FRFR, beer or coffee 😂 great video on the FRFR topic, thank you!
Haha glad you liked the video
I agree with everything you say. Dialling in a sound goes through many procedures. We spend so much time creating a great sound and then put it through a horrible speaker. The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is this: After spending a lot of time dialling in the right sound through a great FRFR speaker for our own stage sound, what about FOH? For example, we send Output 1 to FOH (AXE FX) and Output to to our monitor. So after all that work we've done, our FOH sound is most likely going to - two plastic speakers!! So the work pays off when we hear ourselves onstage, but FOH is still going to plastic PA speakers with a shitty sound! It's like, as guitar players, we can't solve everything! I'm sure some FOH speakers are made of wood but most of the pubs I play at that have in house PAs, have flown plastic FOH speakers! What do we do then? We'll always have a great onstage sound but not a great FOH sound - and though the FOH guy can EQ our sound, we're actually only solving half the problem!
Your title says "Important" but for a second I thought it said, "Impelliteri."
I thought maybe you were gonna give us an Impelliteri shred demo! Ha!
Great video....
I'm using a QSC K12.2 for my FRFR set to studio monitor. I am also new to the helix. At first the sound was way off, but reading, reading, reading... Found out I had to cut the lows around 100 and the highs around 8. I was told this is because a normal guitar amp speaker would never produce those frequencies, so if you don't cut them out, it sounds like crap. It's better, but still needs more work.
Absolutely true brother! That’s why I got my Friedman FRFR.... It’s also true for amplifiers as well. I play my Friedman BE100 through a Friedman 412 and the same goes for my Marshall, VOX, Soldano, Randall and other heads as well.. It’s like pairing fine wine with food... No one wants to drink milk when they are eating sushi...lol... I mean we all do crazy stuff like that....lol.. But, to get the best experience or in this case the best sound you want to use the best equipment you can. It has nothing to do with being a equipment snob. It’s all about your ears and a true flat response.... Great video!!!!
we need an updated version with the laney lfr-212 and lfr-112 any other frfr cab since 2017 when this was made....and then the frfr celestion speakers in a 2x12 and 4x12 cabinet also would be nice
I've had good luck dialing in tone thru studio monitors (even cheap ones with 5" speakers). I was worried the first time I ran direct to a very nice PA (casino gig), but it sounded great, left the eq on the mixer flat. Later I did the same to a low end Peavey set up, and it only needed minor eq tweaks. My rig was set up faster than anyone else. I am looking to get a FRFR for my stage volume, though, and this video was very helpful.
Just a thought... if you always play through the same foh speakers, wouldn't it make sense just to dial your tone into those?
IMO the Mission sounded best but I realize that's not the point. Best doesn't always equate to accurate depending on how your unit is dialed in. Also sounding best would be subjective. Understanding that this is the point of this video I'm betting either it or the Friedman were the most transparent. I think it would be interesting to see each cab tested with a spectrum analyzer, each cab having pink noise run through them, same can position, same mic positioning and same DB level. Also it would be interesting to see if a cab could be made more accurate using the same procedure with a graphic EQ. If so then you could say this cab sounds like crap because it's mids are exaggerated in this range etc
Tom White hey Tom, thanks for commenting. I really like what you said here. I would love to see analytics for these cabs/monitors as well. Like you, I want the most transparent FRFR cab I can get. Here's a video that I posted comparing my direct recorded tone to the cabs. Let me know what you think.
ruclips.net/video/EdcdHTvgCOM/видео.html
This video has had a big impact on my choice. I think I'm sold on having a wood cab. Having played Mesa's all my life this makes sense....
Very informative. The Mission Gemini sounded the best and most transparent IMO. Have you tried the Headrush 108 or 112? Would be interesting to hear those compared to the Gemini.
I see that the Headrush FRFR-112 is pretty affordable. Will it be enough for "transparent" patch creation? It also seems great for smaller gigs.
Great video. What about a high quality PA speaker enclosed in a Baltic Birch cabinet?
I use a Gemini 1 and can testify that you are 100% right in your assessment of other FRFR's.
DavidRomeRecording thank you!
Very good analysis. The same holds true for beer. I use a good beer glass designed for high end Belgian microbrews and can taste the difference!
GREAT video! Very well done - thanks for the great info!
Love the analogies.....thanks for the demo. I'be been a cheap cabinet guy for so long.
ksmit Thank you so much. I appreciate the kind words. Trust me, when you plug in to the Friedman, you will be blown away.
Got a Laney LFR-112 for my helix. Great job
Dan has the Laney a wooden cab or plastic?? Tia
GREAT video! Thanks so much for putting it out there.👍🏼
Very “eye opening” and HELPFUL! 😎🎸
Tomulator thank you.
To my ears, coming from valves and standard cabinets, Behringer sounds really good
This is a great video and explains literally what happened to me today at our practice today! I thought I had my sound/tones locked down & good to go here at my house, then leave to go to practice and all of tones sounded thin and tingy and high pitched like there weren't any Mids within the tones. Threw me for a loop and had to revert back to my previous pedal board to find out the practice. Came home and started looking into why and came across your video, glad I did! This helps understand alot more of what I'm dealing with! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Vernon Leemon you're very welcome! What speaker did you dial your tone in on?
Listening through my AKG headphones the mission sounded great to my ears 2nd is Line 6 and 3rd is Friedman asc12. Thanks for doing this comparison...
Enrico de DIOS youre welcome!
Gemini sounds awesome (personally I would dial out a bit of the WOOF) but at $1700 USD ... WOW !! That said, I wish you had an Alto in there since that is also a popular FRFR in the lower price range. I was surprised the Behringer did as well as it did considering the price difference from the Gemini
Yes can you do a LOW PRICE shootout as my budget is
I own the Headrush and my father in law owns the Mission gemini, we both like the Headrush better, and it costs 299$
I’m playing an ax8 through a Mackie mixer into 2-15 yr old Behringer cabs. Can’t imagine having a better sound for the money. Running everything flat and have used same settings in recording with no issues. God with all the available eq options only a minor tweak if any is necessary! If you start with a buzz saw tone, no speaker system will help you out much. Point is if your playing out your going to be playing through a P A. Surely your not going to just use FRFR cab.
What a difference between the Friedman and the Line6 and Mackie. No wonder sound engineers would be puzzled.
Mission Gemini 2 sounded the best to my ears then the Friedman.
Great video, playing starts at 13:40
Let me get this strait for studio applications you are taking a Kemper and your FRFR cab into a studio. Using your FRFR cab as a monitor and micing it to the studio board. Cant you just emulate the FRFR speaker cab sound at the Kemper or the board (IR) (throw some headphones on). If you can then you are just using your FRFR Cab as local monitor to hear your dialed in sound for playing live. Pushing air into a room while your standing next to your cab is just for your sake. What goes to the board is what matters. Or rather what happens at the board is really what matters.
You are a fool and a sack of butt nuggets. Your grammar is the cherry on top of that turd-pile of thoughts.
Really looking forward to trying out the new HeadRush FRFR-112... supposed to be pretty damn good!
How'd you like it
Convinced me. I like 2 of them, one for the dirty stuff and one for cleans. Thanks for the video.
Eric Smith the mission cab was rrally good for cleans.
I would simply bring whatever amp or powered speaker I used at home to the gig/studio. Simply use one that has enough power, or if necessary get it mic'ed up at the gig along with the other instruments, amps, etc
If you're trying to decide what to buy, you might consider getting a used Atomic Reactor. They make 2 tube-based FRFR models - the 112 and the 50-watt version. I had the 112 (18 watts) and sold it for the 50-watt version, primarily because the 50 watt version has more features. (I'm not a professional and 18 watts is loud enough to play with a drummer, so I didn't need the additional power.)
Another option is the Laney IRT-X. This is designed to be an "expansion" cabinet for your existing amplifier, but it is FRFR and can be used stand-alone. It has some nice features and can sometimes be gotten used on eBay/Reverb. (I paid < $250 for mine.)
Thank you for commenting. I've been trying to get my hands on the Atomic. Hopefully I will soon.
Great advice!!
I'm a guitar nerd and I really enjoy your analysis of the gear. Finally a place I can go and get an accurate break down, both good and bad. This episode really hit home I have been using a Mackie DLM 12 and DLM 12S for my Helix and Roland GR-55. It sounded great in my studio and then I ventured out to the world and it sounded so woffy it drove me nuts all night. This video explains it. Thanks off to look at a Line 6 PowerCab 2-12... Thanks again.
Thank you so much for commenting and sharing this with me.
I'm so glad that my videos are helping people. I just reviewed the Line 6 powercab 2x12. It's actually a really good product.
Yeah, the Gemini seems to sound very real. Does it translate very well/with a lot of accuracy? I thought that and the friedman were my favorites, but the Friedman seems to have so much midrange.
They are both great products. Out of the two, I definitely prefer the Friedman though. in my humble opinion, the friedmen represented my direct recorded tone the best
@@TONEWARSgearshow Oh really!? Good to know, thank you. From what I could tell online I thought the gemini was more transparent. I'd prefer the simpler of the two and more accurate sounding, but also the one that is most fun to play in the room
If your not using the same speakers as the studio your going to have to tweak your settings. Good video, it shows that even frfr speakers all color your sound differently. Same as guitar speakers.
I was very impressed with this sound test. I feel very nervous, because I'm about to purchase a Helix LT , but I still have my Marshall MG 102 CFX and don't know how it's gonna sound or if I should connect the Helix to the return loop effect and switch off the cab block. Now I know for sure that a I need an FRFR speaker like the Line 6 Powercab 112, but It will have to wait, since I live in Chile and they are quite expensive 😟. Have you ever test a Headrush 112 BTW????
One thing that would be interesting is to see how close you can dial in say...the Mackie Thump 12 to the Friedman. Many people who can’t afford a high end FRFR might be able to borrow one and “tone match” it...🤷🏻♂️
great video just completely confused.. if 2 cabs are frfr they should sound the same right? or at least pretty close given the different builds.. the mission and Friedman sounded vastly different.
tanza14 Thank you, I'm glad you like the video. I totally agree with you as well. They all sound different even though a lot of them claim to be full range flat response. Check out this video of me comparing each cab to my direct recorded tone. Let me know what you think
ruclips.net/video/EdcdHTvgCOM/видео.html
tanza14 I’m with you. Plus, if all eq levels aren’t set flat across the board, isn’t the tone being colored from the get? It’s super subjective. I’ll say this...the Mission and Friedman are likely the easiest to dial in, because of the r&d, and quality. You’re starting from a good scratch.
Great video tho. Much appreciated. Kinda wish you would have said which ones got you closest to a hassle-free transition in a studio/live.
Gotta guess it’s the Mission/Friedman? Thanks for the vid.
Silly question: would it make sense to take a reference track (Bohemian Rhapsody, Jesus of Suburbia, Master of Puppets, what have you, something that everyone is familiar with) and line-in it into each speaker? Shouldn't it demonstrate the flatness of each speaker in a similar manner to how people are testing studio monitors and headphones?
That could be an option for sure. Some FRFR cabs only have XLR inputs though. Which may make it more difficult to do.
@@TONEWARSgearshow Thanks for answering! I actually looked around for a video like this and couldn't find it...
@@ExplicableCashew my pleasure!!!
Very informative! THANK YOU!!!!! This helps!
The mission sounds great but for that money, as a sound guy, I'd buy 2 qsc K12 speakers. They have a new model out now, the .2 series so the originals should have some good deals going on. Just my two cents. It's a beautiful can though.
aaron holder thanks for commenting. I actually did a shootout with the Friedman and the QSC speakers. The Friedman sounded much better. Check it out and let me know what you think.
aaron holder ruclips.net/video/gAvRrjNpxwU/видео.html
Thanks for the info dude. I am dealing with this now. I just bought the AX8. It's been a real pain just find a good tone. I absolutely agree with you on a wood cab. Have looked at the Engl, orange an Marshall 2 12 cabs. Also dealing with reackmount amp vs head. Like the BE 100. I bought the AX8 so I wouldn't have to spend 2 to 3 grand on a head plus a cab. Going to back off for a bit and let the sound come to me... Thanks again
doug hitty my pleasure! I would STRONGLY recommend the Friedman ASC 12. Balls and transparency for days
spot on right here, i was misign that last 10% and i couldn't figure it out. Now im glad someone agrees. you need wood to replicate that tone.
Thank you! Like I always say...
Wood is good
Poly, you on dat molly
I'm more intrigued by the Tech21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe with 1x12", on/off tweeter, wood build, rear breathing ports, HPF/LPF, 3EQ. anyone else try it?
Last year my band played a lot of shows until the virus, my friends and family complained not about my playing but about my tone I was using a Headrush powered speaker, as I had time off from work I made some adjustments to the hi and lo cut of the speaker cabs in my Helix not sure if it helped because I haven't played out, the band I was in would get pissed if I plugged into the house so I only did a few times, I got a Katana ii and there is a amp input for guitar processors, is there anything else I can try? love this channel
i had a kemper cabinet, n i wish to upgarde to friedman ac12, is that ac12 much better than the kemper cabinet..? 😊
I'd stick with the kab
13:40 for start of comparison
Is the headrush frfr okay for homeplay? Why didnt you use it to compare here? Couldve been educational
Thank you for this. Transparency, accuracy, and repeatability MATTER! For all the marketing towards pretengineers and guitar players, all the audiophile psuedoscience nonsense and myths designed to separate you and your wallet from reason, having as flat a base as possible to start with will allow you to make decisions with actual predictability.
Oops, should have listened to the whole thing before commenting. You went right off the flat earth deepend
I have found you need to break your presets into three groups. Practice, Recording and Live. And set up different sets of presets for each situation.
Martin Crane what cab/frfr do you use to dial in your tone?
FRFR via powered pa speakers and a Blackstar iD core stereo 150.
Martin Crane what speakers?
Martin Crane Perfect thoughts. Maybe the biggest flaw in all of this, is that some expect digital to transfer exactly to live/studio. Even then, I’ve never taken my Mesa Recto25 from my home studio, and didn’t need to dial in again at rehearsals/stage. Every environment is different, and every speaker is different.
What I got from this is 1) you “NEED” a flat response, full range to not color your sound and 2) all the flat response full range speakers tested here colored the sound in very different ways.
The Friedman asc-12 were the flattest out of all of them
TONE WARS the friedman sounded terrible!
@@TONEWARSgearshow if your reference tone is friedman asc12 - then i think best affordable and closest is behringer surprisingly
That’s why studio monitors are the way to go. Kali LP6/8 are highly rated by helix/hx worship users
So basically all we can learn from this is that speakers sounds different and that you don't like speaker made out of plastic (and btw you can make great speakers from other materials than wood). The viewer still have no clue which speaker works the best.
If you want to know which speaker is most transparent you need to use a proper measurement setup in damped or anechoic room using flat response measuring mic's (or you could measure windowed chirps to remove reflections). This would provide knowledge about the speakers and an explanation of why they sound different.
The least you could do is to provide a list of used equipment as well as description of the setup.
He made it very clear what was being used you *turd bag*
The room acoustics play a really big roles in the differences between home and live/studio usage.
How do you feel about the powercab ? I pulled the trigger on a kemp head and remote even though I been using helix but I’m going to need a frfr being I have been using the helix 4cm with a tube amp. Also, have you used the kemper with a tube amp? Like going in the amp effects return to utilize the power amp section?
I think the kemper sounds best when he run it through a tube power Amp and real cab. It shines big time.
I actually think the power cab is a decent unit. That said, the Kemper Kab is more suitable for the kemper because of the features that it has. It sounds really good as well. Keep in mind it's not powered though.
TONE WARS do you think it sounds ok ran through the power section of a tube amp via effects return then into cab? Thanks for responding . Nobody in RUclips , but you and a few, talk any about how to actually route the kemper or the helix
@@juanvaldez5422 no problem. Yeah it sounds great if you run it thru the return of an amp head
Thanks for the video, I leally liked it. I'm pondering a Friedman ASM-12 with Ace-FX III going along with a Majesty Monarchy. Given the concerns that you've addressed in the video, does this sound like a reasonable platform? I am specifically asking in terms of the actual FRFR model choice for and the modeller. Thanks!
TheToneZone the Friedman will be a perfect match for you.
Transparency, punch, headroom and clarity
Thank you very much for your reply. I hate to be asking, but how would you view it relative to a Gemini Wedge (if you have had the pleasure of using the latter), tonally speaking? Entirely subjectively speaking from my angle here, I find a lot more pronounced sparkle, or the high-end in the Gemini when compared to the Friedman in question. Thanks for your time, and keep on rocking!
TheToneZone you're very welcome. They are both fantastic products. If you play modern metal, djent, prog and heavier type stuff, the Friedman would be more what you are looking for. If you're playing more classic or blues or jazz then go with the mission.
Thanks!
Thanks for the honesty
When I'm live via my unit, I'm generally sending my rockets into a 3 way and sometimes 4 way system with the crossovers set correctly to suit the system and environment, oh yes it separates the wheat from the chaff no problem.✅
What was the cab sim you were using? That's what is really important here. How accurately does the FRFR reproduced the cab that is being simulated
I believe I was using an IR from the Ownhammer HHVII series.
The Friedman definitely presents the difference cab sims very well
People dont understand what sounds good in the room usually wont work in a mix lol.Ive found it best to get the source tones through studio monitors.I had a mackie thump had to cut alot of the low end for it to even sound good in the room.If you want that real amp in the room tone u need a "Real wood" cab lol 2x12 is my fav.You could even just get a cheap 2x12 combo and just throw it in the return of the effects loop.
I'm now using a Synergy SYN 50/50 power amp and 2 Mesa 2x12 cabs. I'm really liking it too.
Question: so which of the cabs would you say is actually the most accurate? Because at the end of the video, you say that's the most important point, and that some of them didn't sound bad, but weren't accurate. So which of them is accurate, and the most colorless?
I would say that the Friedman was the most accurate and sounded the best
Thank you! Very interesting comparison video!
@@tobster80 my pleasure. Thanks for watching and commenting
Have you ever tried the Helix through Yamaha DBR12s? It's a plastic PA/Monitor wedge. Wanted to know what you thought of it as far as accuracy/consistency.
James Burwell yes I have. IMHO, it's the best poly enclosed unit so far. It's not as dull as the others. That said, I st I'll ll prefer the Friedman. More transparency, rage and balls
Hey man, that was a great video! What do you recommend for people that own the helix and are only using it for home recording purposes. I’m looking for a monitor that will give me the flat response that sounds exactly like what the helix should be producing but I don’t need lots of volume I just need accuracy
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like the video. For home recording, I would recommend a really good pair of powered studio speakers. If you want a cab, the Friedman ASC 12 is very accurate and punchy
Hey thanks bro, I appreciate the response back. The Friedman's look like a great product, but probably more than I need, and probably more geared toward live applications (I think, but correct me if wrong... then again, perhaps that was the point of your response). Have you been hearing about any specific studio monitors that are well suited for FRFR?
@@PDXguitarfreak you're welcome. Regarding the studio monitors, what's your budget?
I'd love to spend $600, but I know that's pretty limiting... perhaps $800. After doing more research today, I'm thinking about a pair of Yamaha HS8's which would put me at around $700 new.
@@PDXguitarfreak KRK is another good choice
What would be a good portable speaker option for traveling? I am looking for an small speaker to use with my Kemper Stage when I go away for a weekend to my cabin or jam with friends in a small room. This would not be my main rig. I was looking at the Bose S1 or JBL EON One Compact. I like how they would be a dual threat for an acoustic guitar too. Is this an option worth considering? I play as low as drop A#. Thank you
Hello Michael, great question. I would 100% recommend to Friedman ASC 10. It's very small compared to bigger cabs and it only weighs just over 30 lbs. It sounds just as good as the bigger asc-12 version.
Thank you. This cab could also be used with gigging with a drummer in a band not going direct? I imagine it would also be better for programming my Kemper vs my single EV PA speaker? Do these cabs do vocals too when plugged into a board? Thanks again
@@michaelstewart2437 you're welcome. Depending on how loud your drummer plays, this will keep up with him no problem.
it's made for a personal monitor for you. You definitely don't want to mic it for the front of house. For FOH, I would go direct.
I would absolutely recommend dialing in your sounds with this particular cab. It's very flat and we'll give you a true representation of your tone.
I've never put vocals through it but I sure that they will sound good enough for you to use as a map to get through the show and to know where you're at with each song
TONE WARS The Kemper Kab should also be interesting too I suppose. Something tells me the Friedman is the Cadillac though.
@@michaelstewart2437 as far as I know, the new Kemper cab is not powered yet. I could be wrong about that though.
So far, based on my experience, the Friedman ASC 10 and asc-12 are the best
Great video, thanks (and subscribed!)
I’m just starting to learn about these new gen multi effects boards. My last one was a Boss ME something from 2004. Now I play a mark v with full pedal board set up. What are your thoughts on getting rid of the pedal board but running a helix or fractal into a Mesa amp using 4CM?
Thanks so much for subscribing! Regarding your question, go for it. I run my helix via 4cm with my Synergy rig. It switches everything and gives me great fx.
you prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..?
I somehow forgot my login password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Howard Ronan instablaster ;)
@Dakota Layne i really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Dakota Layne it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass!
Hey man thanks for this video. Can i ask you 2 questions? The Behringer b215a is an active pa speaker, right? Can i connect my multi effects unit straight into something like the Behringer B215A?
You're welcome. Regarding your questions...yes and yes
@@TONEWARSgearshow thank you very much. Have a great day and stay safe.
Great video. I'm completely new to digital gear. I bought a line 6 hx stomp for use with amps modeler only. I am currently using the stomp on the return of the laney Lionheart 5w combo FX loop but I am not completely satisfied. I would like to try a FRFR cab. I'm undecided between Headrush cab and line 6 power cab 112. What would you recommend from these two?
Paulo Madeira I use a Laney Lfr-112 with my helix. Fantastic frfr cab for reasonable cost
Any info on the Tech 21 Powe Engine Deuce Deluxe?
Those Laney active Cabs are insane check em out
Sorry, this really isn't my area. What are we listening to here?
Is the Freidman and the Gemini actual guitar speakers, and the rest are a mix of ABS PA speakers, and flat response guitar amplifiers?
And if I'm sort of on the right track here... The cab sims are off with the actual guitar cab, right? How are they being powered, through a flat response reference amplifier?
Again, this really isn't what I know anything about, so if I've completely got this wrong, I apologize.
Or is the Freidman and the Gemini a flat response guitar speaker?
What do you think of Splawn cabinets? I don't believe they offer FRFR speakers/cabs, but I've heard good things about their designs. I own a Kemper and am considering either a Headrush FRFR or a Splawn vertical 2x12 with Celestion Creambacks.
Mission is so fucking expensive. $1600? I just spent $2600 on the powered Kemper lol. Please let me know your thoughts.
Greg Capra I appreciate your question. I haven't tried the splawn vertical cab. If you want a really good FRFR option, I would suggest the Friedman ASC 12.
www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/friedman-asm-12-active-amp-modeler-profiler-monitor/j25313000000000?pfm=item_page.rr1|ClickEV
Are you on Facebook by any chance? The reason I ask is because I've narrowed down my next cabinet purchase between the new LINE 6 POWER CAB 1x12 & the SPLAWN VERTICAL 2x12.
One conclusion I've come to is that (for example) if you own a KEMPER & have Cabinet Emulation turned on & then have your cabinet mic'd, it has a 99% chance of sounding like shit.
Based on the profiles you have stored & programmed in your Kemper will determine how rich or shrill-sounding they are. The 2nd half of the tone battle is EQ'ing those respective profiles to the best of your ability & preference.
From my personal experience as a performing guitarist & musician, if you have Cabinet Emulation (the Cabinet button on your Kemper) TURNED ON & you're plugged into a PHYSICAL CABINET & that Cabinet is MIC'd, you're profiles & overall tone is most likely going to sound like SHIT LOL!
So, suggestions:
Choose 1-10 of the most useful, rich-sounding clean, over-driven & distorted profiles. Save & assign them accordingly via Rig Manager & to your Profiler Remote (Floorboard).
Whether playing @ home or live on stage: If you have CABINET turned on (CABINET BUTTON LED LIGHT IS ON) & you're connected to a physical 1x12 / 2x12 / 4x12 / FRFR > TURN THE CABINET BUTTON OFF & NOTICE IMMEDIATELY HOW MUCH BETTER, FULLER & CLEARER YOUR PROFILES SOUND.
The CABINET button makes sense to turn on when you aren't connected to a Cabinet & you are practicing with headphones on. Then it will give you that "AMP IN THE ROOM SOUND."
I want to personally thank TONE WARS because if it weren't for this video, I wouldn't have been enlightened on the concept & technology of FRFR (FULL RANGE, FLAT RESPONSE) speakers & acoustics.
MY FINAL QUESTION TO THOSE READING THIS:
I'm torn between purchasing the LINE 6 POWER CAB 1x12 & the SPLAWN VERTICAL 2x12. The 2x12 has 2 speakers (obviously), heavy duty handles, takes up less space in your room & on stage & has Celestion Creambacks.
The Line 6 Powercab 1x12 "Does for cabinet emulation what the Kemper does for amp profiling" in that it has 5-10 profiled speakers.
Sorry if this was a long post, but hopefully this will be helpful to those reading & maybe I'll get suggestions to the future purchase I intend to make. Happy Reading & Rock on Ya'll!!
facebook.com/gcapra81
So which do you find gives you a reference sound? I’m assuming it’s the Mission Gemini? I say this because to my ears all the others sounded, well, not so good. Great video and yes, you need a speaker that will translate to accurate FOH unless you are just going to mic the cab.
I found the Friedman to be the closest
In your video the Friedman sounded more like a gutiar cabinet , but they are also more expensive than alot of other FRFR cabs out there. If you are looking for one to use in a live setting and have the money thats cool, but if someone justs wants one for practice I think they should check out something more reasonable priced like the headrush or alto
I woul suggest studio monitors for home practice instead of the Alto or Headrush. They sound better and are more honest
@@TONEWARSgearshow Thanks for your reply, I will start checking into this then, I'm really looking for something to run a Amptweaker tight metal pro through for practice at home
@@jamesmiller9823 that Amptweaker looks like a cool product. Bruce makes some great stuff
Thanks for this video. The difference between the expensive and inexpensive speakers is stark.
Are you saying that when you dial in what you’re looking for on a true FRFR at home, then that tone will transfer accurately to FOH (subject to minor tweaks)?
That is correct
Do you run your impulse responses into the Friedman/Mission cabs? If so, why? Wouldn't that be like having a large cup of coffee, then you put a smaller cup of coffee inside the bigger cup before you will drink it?
The Law I use ownhammer ir's. And I tried bypassing the ir and it sounds like static mixed with aids.
GREAT VID! I AM JUST NOW LOOKING AT FRFR OR STUDIO MONITORS. I AM WANTING TO BUILD MY OWN CAB WITH AN FRFR SPEAKER. CAN U RECOMMEND A QUALITY SPEAKER AND SET UP? THANKS
13:42 vs 14:02 / 14:46 vs 15:16 / 16:17 vs 16:53
I have a question. What is Line6 L3M “reference setting?” And Line6 L3M “ele guitar setting?” The “ele guitar settting” sounds lightyears better than reference setting. How do we get that kind of setting? Thanks this video has helped alot.
The settings are on the back.of the speaker
Nice...But... What amp are you using the drive these speakers?
All of the speakers are powered.
I think you forgot option #4... Some people just suck at dialing in a good tone lol. Not necessarily always the engineer. I dig your tones so I'm not referring to you, but in general some people have a tough time dialing in a good tone because they don't know what goes into dialing it in right.
StefanShredsabit great point! Actually @ 19:40 I mentioned that via text. :)
Once again, that is a great point and I'm glad you posted this
So, I have a Kemper 600W powered head & just recently learned about FRFR technology. I'm looking to get a new 2x12 cabinet. Either a Splawn vertical 2x12 with creamback Celestions, a Mission 2x12 FRFR cab or a Headrush FRFR Floor cab for $300.
What do you suggest & why? The Mission is good, but it's fucking $1600 lol.
aic92581 have you tried the Friedman ASC 12?
I too am in the fr cab dilemma. Friedman asm12, mission Gemini , or clear atomic. It seems in this video the Friedman is rather scooped and the Gemini a bit brighter. Personally I think in this video the Friedman was nice and warm but lacked some high frequencies vs the mission. So question is what was more accurate in this video for what you we were after. Friedman or mission? I am only looking for home use but I do want a stage level powerhouse and feel n the room. Thinking about two of whatever product I go with. Why not. 🤘Thank you for your contributions and time. Superb reviews my friend.
Balance your audio levels dude. No need to blast our asses out with your intro!
Shadowcruise99 thank you for the heads up. Will do
you just woke my baby up
The Behringer sounds the best. Cheers.
Hi, I have a Gemini 1 and I find it’s distorting if the master on the helix is turned up. Is that clipping? I wouldn’t have expected that as I thought it was powerful. Where do you run your master on your helix into the frfr?
Steve Kay sorry to hear that. I typically have my volume at 12:00.
That does sound like a clipping issue.
TONE WARS The problem I face is I need to have the master up to full for the pa to get a decent signal. So obviously this is making the speaker clip on the mission, is there a way of having less volume go through one xlr output than the other one?
Very interesting test. Great player, great sound, except for the mackie and line 6; those sounded awful. IN blind tests, The Behringer sounded best to me. The Freidman was awful out of the high dollar stuff----In my opininon. Here is what I did. I went to the 4 main clubs ( I live in a very small town in MO) and found out what equipment they used. All of them used a large board (behringer or mackie) and EV speakers/monitors. All had EV speakers and monitors. I could not afford EV so I bought the Powered monitors that sounded most like the EV's at a very loud bedroom volume. Not scientific but close enough. Going from a Freidman or MIssion to a FOH board/monitor/speaker setup would be disastrous in my opinion.Especially when you add in a board. In addition, NONE of the "sound guys" even knew what a Helix or a Fractal was and this was in 2017. I am sure in bigger cities this would not be an issue but it is here and I suspect in other small towns as well. I think if you approximate the setup used in your live venue, and work with that, you are in a better postion than working with Freidmans or Mission One, THEN going into a live setting. Just my thoughts. By the way, in all 4 settings, they asked me to "setup that weird shit" so I did. In addition, Accurate is a strange way of looking at this. I see what you are saying, though. Your Mesa should sound like a Mesa and a Marshall should sound like a Marshall. However; find me two of those amps that sound the same. I've tried for years. Two mesa's in a music store sound different every time. So in my long winded rambling opinion ACCURACY DOES NOT MATTER, great tone does. You can sound like a mesa going into a behringer just like you could into a EV/board. The idea is "similar" not identical. Great video and I love your channel And that guitar was absolutely gorgeous. ----Ben
What do you think, both home and gigs: FRFR 112 or 212? Thanks !
I'd go 212 and tube poweramp
Love your Monarchy, do you find it a challenge going back and forth from the bolt-on neck of the BFR (I think that’s right) to the all access neck of the Monarchy?
ronnieparfait thank you. I love it too. I actually talk about that very thing in my review of the Monarchy. There is definitely an adjustment period of 10 to 15 minutes when I go from one to the other. That said, they both have definitive characteristics that make them special in their own way.
So, given that all of the "FRFR" offerings in the shootout sound VASTLY different, there is obviously coloration across the board. How do you determine where transparency lies?
Duane Harlick great question. To be totally transparent myself, this wasn't a shootout between FRFR cabs. It was a shootout between FRFR cabs and commonly used monitors. The Friedman and the Gemini cab were the only FRFR cabs in this video.
To your great question, use whatever FRFR cab that is closest to your direct studio tone.
Is the L6 an FRFR?
Rob Groden no. It's a decent speaker for FOH. If you're gonna use it for FRFR keep it in reference mode. The guitar mode sounds awful.
The Friedman is a true FRFR and has balls for days!
TONE WARS Thanks for the reply. I purchased it thinking it was FRFR as I had seen a ton of people suggest it. I’ve recently started running it in reference mode, I was letting it default to floor monitor mode originally.
This past weekend I spent time developing tones using Bias FX/Bias Amp on my iPad with a great set of multi-driver headphones. I did a gig NYE with the iPad straight to the board (using a DI) and the results were great. So I can see the value in using a "transparent" sound source to develop your tones. That way, they carry over wherever you end up using them.
WOW that Line6 FRFR sounded like C-R-A-P and for the $$ they want for it...wow. Great comparison. Im looking for a FRFR for my home hobby use at home (not live/not pro gigs outdoors/not studio) to use with my Line6 Firehawk FX guitar processor for electric and acoustic guitars but am on a tight budget of < $350 so what is the best home/hobby use FRFR out there? any ideas? Better to just use 2 stereo powered monitors? or a cab/wedge PA? thanks for your feedback. B
The Line 6 FRFR in reference mode is decent. The guitar mode SUCKS! To your question, if you're on a budget, the Mackie MR6 mk3 studio monitors will work great. They provide great stereo imaging and transparency. You are much better off with the those rather than a substandard wedge. I love mine.You can get them here - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EA1W1M0/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00EA1W1M0&linkCode=as2&tag=tonewars-20&linkId=a75122b74eb94ce57a2874956ccac058
TONE WARS have your tried Yamaha HS7 vs Mackie MR6?
Check on the new Headrush FrFr..... sounds incredible, will work great for you and has the shocking price of only $300. This unit should be going for $799 easy. Check out their website HeadRushfx.com these things are unreal for the price. And they go to 11!
@@markpabst7963 I just did a shootout with the Headrush a few weeks ago. Check it out
Need a update, what about the line6 power cab 112 plus or the headrush 112 I'm only concerned about clear and accurate sounding in the room for practice-
Thanks for commenting. I will get that done for you ASAP!!
@@TONEWARSgearshow Thank you, I started playing guitar later in life and it m still using my spider jam. I watched this video when you first released it and it was very helpful because I wanted to get a kemper- So thank you for explaining what frfr speakers are, because I had no idea what my next step was going to be in the bottomless pit $$$$$ of the tone chasing game. You saved me alot of money. The kemper and gemini are wonderful but I went with the line 6 and a headrush pedal, I hope the search is over! 😁
@@RichardLuna2025 I'm glad you found what works for you!! Thanks for the kind words too. By the way, I'm uploading an episode today about the digital platform rabbit hole. I hope you enjoy that as well. Happy New Year
The line 6 played through the line 6 link with helix is better I think that’s how I run mine cheers great video bro
Thank you!! The line 6 speakers are definitely pretty good in PA mode.
TONE WARS I love the sound of the mission , I would like to see it vs the atomic clr
well, from my blind listening to this video, sounds like I need to look into one of those Behringers. Sounded nearly as good as the expensive options (Mission and all) but I'm sure it is way less expensive. I'm sure your goal was to point out that you need a wood cab, but I didn't hear that in this blind test...