To be fair, many people can't do that. America is full of sheep. It would be helpful if they could actually think for themselves. I don't mind different views, as long as they're your views and not parroting your favorite media influences. Well done. 🙂
Destiny is a G.O.A.T debater but he needs to let this transgender mess go. I personally have a lot of friends on the left that just can’t get behind these extremes.
“If you take someone that doesn’t have cancer but *believe* they have cancer, is it ethical to give them chemo treatments if they believe it’s making them feel better” Destiny unintentionally described Chuck from Better Call Saul
I can testify to the fact that trans people share contact data of therapists who don't question them and just say yes to everything. Also I think these days a lot of people confuse personality with gender. The whole "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" is super dangerous and stupid. I guess we will find out the hard way in a few years if our way of treating kids who think they are trans was good or bad. I have a feeling that there will be a lot of people with regrets.
Gender is intrinsically tied to personal expression, gender dysphoria is just one way the discrepancy between what someone's expected behavior is and there personal identify manifests.
yeah there are unironically girls who like a few male hobbies and think that therefore they must be trans. Trans people are a very small percentage of the population
Can I say that the whole label of “Truscum” is rediculous and gross? It’s a label made by people who have opposing beliefs about the issue that is literally pronounced “True Scum”. I can’t believe that it was even accepted at any point by any person, especially if those people considered themselves to be accepting and open to others’ beliefs.
It’s not even “personality” anymore, it’s all aesthetics. Even Demonmama said it aloud for everyone to hear, gender is just aesthetic to these people. Hence why I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to doubt the fact that Demonmama is even trans in the first place
I'm convinced that no trans person actually believes that you dont need dysphoria to be trans. Every trans person ive ever met has dysphoria; and the people ive known who said they dont have dysphoria, never actually started medical transition and just changed their prounouns for a few months or something. I know theres probably people online who genuinely believe that but I dont think its something thats turning into a problem. Theres always going to be outliers but i dont think that justifies extensive medical gatekeeping when not all trans people have the same 'textbook' experience of dysphoria.
The “yeah but that’s the argument conservatives make” take is fascinating. You all admit the data isn’t there, but because conservatives point to the same data you negate the claim. It’s nothing if not impressive.
I honestly think that the slogan “trans women are women” caused a lot of unnecessary problems in the trans discourse. A slogan like “trans people are real” would’ve been so much more capable of bringing normies on board for trans rights. Another issue is having this trans umbrella that includes non binary people and that just confuses normies because they don’t care enough to educate themselves on the differences between binary transsexual and non binary transgenders because it’s “too confusing” and gives bad faith actors the opportunity to prop up bearded they/thems. as “look at these crazy transes thinking they’re the same as a biological woman”. Also the left needs to face some hard truths like the fact that there is such a thing as social contagion because look at all the detransiotioners that have come out in the last year. But no, the left pretends they either don’t exist or they’re all right wing grifters or whatever.
Its not that it’s too confusing for the everyday person, it’s just people don’t care about it cuz it’s less than 1% of the population is trans and the people backing the trans ideology are unhinged
The reality is most of the people virtue signaling and saying that will throw it all out the window when you ask them to date or marry a trans person. Most people have been lying to themselves and cherry picking studies. That will only go so far.
I genuinely don't understand the point of non-binary transgender people. You don't feel like either sex matters to you, but you don't transition in any meaningful way, so why are you even qualified as trans? I don't even know why they matter in the discussion tbh
"Do you realize that puberty bloclers have been used to stave of puberty for 40 50 years" Yes however it was typically prescribed to children with genetic anomalies where a 8 year old starts going through puberty NOT normal kids who have a typical development. A HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference. The 8 year old going through puberty can mess up their growth plates at a young age and cause massive developmental issues when they should normaly go through puberty ergo why they have to stop the early puberty until an appropriate age.
Also this is very temporary, staving off puberty for a few years vs stopping it and showering them with affirmation that they should do this forever, and that if they stop... they face the wrath of the trans community which has a way oversized reach.
To cut past the circlejerk of "well I've read X amount of studies": The reasons we don't have research for kids being on puberty blockers for decades is because 1. They might still be ongoing 2. The use case is usually for kids who are going through puberty too early or for hypothyroidism 3. Having kids be on them for decades is _really really new_ . Everything about transgenderism is new, we don't have enough years of research yet.
@@USMC0311CplJackson Technically yes it has been but now Transgenderism is being accepted as thing and treatments to ease its ailments such as therapy, medicine, surgery, etc are now being introduced and only have been introduced at this scale in the last 10 or so years with the bare minimum of this treatment being the normal application maybe 20 years ago. Does that make sense?
@@USMC0311CplJackson transgenderism has been around since early civilization or since people were capable of categorizing themselves. The actual research and scientific literature is fairly new
The other big problem I'm noticing is we talk about all puberty blockers as if they all do the same thing, when in fact different puberty blockers do really different things. Like Lupron and Bicalutamide are two totally different conversations.
Erudite's weird statement that she can assume the effect and magnitude of an intervention by referening a different study, on a different subject, with different variables, may be one of the most unscientific things you can say.
Here's the other side minus the trolling, and memes. We believe Trans people are real. We don't deny their existence. We believe Trans people should have the same rights as everyone else. We believe Trans people deserve the same respect anyone else has. .... What we don't agree with is the imposition. You create a new term out of nowhere and demand people to use it, no matter how many times you change it. We don't agree that the word woman should be replaced with "People with the capacity for pregnancy" We don't believe the word mother should be replaced with "Birthing persons". We also believe if a woman says she feels uncomfortable undressing in a public place with a male with his genitals intact who happens to identify as a woman, we should hear the biological woman out. Why is it you feel women's voices should be heard...unless it conflicts with someone who identifies as a woman Instead of being born one. We also disagree with the moral blackmail attempts by trans activists that say we either agree with you, or our disagreement leads to trans death. It's a disgusting thing to do. The phrase "A live daughter, or a dead boy" is beyond reprehensible and it's a phrase doctors use to scare parents into dangerous surgery we have yet to fully understand. And lastly, the idea that we have quadrupled the number of trans kids in the past almost decade is because they were afraid to come out to an unwelcoming world and it has nothing to do with, or very little to do with social contagion is an outright lie. In order to fully support the trans community we have to set up a series of lies to make them feel comfortable. If a person has to lie and ignore reality to make you feel better then you're the problem, not us. I truly feel bad for the members of the trans community who realize the trans activism has gone too far. But you need to talk to your community because they are undoing a lot of goodwill that was very much earned. Now it's gone nuts.
Agreed except the 2 points Terms are not meant to be sacred or never changing. And the social contangion part. The reason number of trans people have increased is because they can come out without fear of persecution which earlier was not possible . Now the social environment is more accepting of them. The social contangion part plays a very minor role
Word well when hate is given to you by mere existence you tend reflect what's given to you but you learn fighting fire with fire only creates more fire, love only the ones that love you
Destiny has taught me they even reasonable “Lefties” are incapable of being transparent for the sake of being transparent, and would rather assume a position that they believe will have the best outcome (rather than simply advocating The Truth).
Great creep spread! When going up against a terran who turtles this much with ghost mech, I think you need to 1) take as many bases as possible to offset the fact that he will have better army efficiency. 2) You have to keep attacking the weak bases. Never just attack into his army, even though it can get very frustrating playing against this style. Thats how you lose all your army supply in one fight. Instead, keep pivoting from one base to the other in order to force him to unsiege his tanks and libs. But most importantly: Take as many bases as possible and immediatly retreat when you think you are running into his sieged up main army next to his static defense.
not the first time, if there's any opposition she tends to freak out and accuse you of not believing experts and science even if there's a possible alternative option
I love when she cackled at the conservative and then like 30 seconds later discussed with Taf how there actually /are/ side effects of puberty blockers, including infertility in some cases. It was hilarious for her to switch stances within seconds depending in who she was talking to.
Why is it that when RJ says “hey, puberty blockers can cause problems”, he’s told he’s working on Middle/High School levels of science, and kicked off the podcast . . . But then they go on to talk about the same things and AGREE with him before bashing him further and saying he’s “not ready to be at the adult table”, and nobody calls it out? It just seems like a super toxic relationship that RJ should get out of.
@@decentralizeddemocracy8335 This was just at the very beginning of the video. It was insane. My brain is being very ADHD and anti-political, today, so I didn’t watch more than that. I knew just continuing to listen to people who ban/block others for saying something, and then repeating the thing that person said while saying it’s a valid point would just make me angry, lol. Like, keep them on so they can actually listen to you and try to understand you, and at least reason with you! Don’t just block them from speaking! I have periods where I can handle listening to this kinda stuff, but I guess I’m just politic’ed out, today lol!
@@decentralizeddemocracy8335 He is? I’ve never caught a stream from him before. Well, i think I have, but i think he had facecam on and he was on a couch. I guess I may have been confused lol!
yeah, its wierd how this is one of the few Destiny vids where everyone seems to like the discussion but a guy just got totally bullied for something no one on the panel really disagrees with and no one batted an eye. He talked in a tone that had no passive agression or bad faith to it, worst he did was cite ''badly researched studies'' i dont think that warrants a kick, or getting barated
This may be the best trans discussion I've heard. So refreshing to hear a debate that isn't about political posturing but instead actually cares about what might be right for people.
As a german, it is absolutely crazy to me the this are not thr kind of debates that happen on CNN or Fox news. If you watch that, it is always the culture war nonsense
"So refreshing to hear a debate that isn't about political posturing but instead actually cares about what might be right for people.". It's crazy how if this had been said about Jordan Peterson in 2018 I would've absolutely agreed. Crazy how much things can change in a relatively short amount of time.
Funny how erudite and others suddenly admit this difference between real trans now that destiny had the balls to come out and say it. I’ve heard trans arguments for years where they all ignored this. And it’s not new.. this is what conservatives have been making fun of for years.
This, they just talk about their studies and how the opposition is a science denying dumb f***. I guarantee you if someone that wasn’t Destiny said that, she’d argue that it is about a lack of compassion and they haven’t read the studies.
@Justifano I don't believe the more radical ideas like self-id, xeno-pronouns, "trans women are biological women" etc. are widespread on the left in general, although leftist Twitter may make it appear that way. It has ultimately been bad for the trans community and more broadly the left regardless
I actually despise the idea that inaction in the face of such an overwhelming lack of concrete information surrounding a topic is "evil". It's so disingenuous to suggest that a person is beyond redemption because they believe that a mental illness warrants hesitation and some hefty pushback. It doesn't matter how wrong you think they are. This is quite literally the most complicated topic that society faces right now, because it requires a scientific explanation for a series of feelings and results in sketchy treatment for children, two things that no person in their right mind would immediately embrace, ESPECIALLY when the research only spans maybe two decades. It might actually be the case that you're causing children more harm by further ostracizing the parents.
It doesnt even stack up. The pro trans side of the debate will argue: 1) if you dont transition people they will end their life, so medical treatment should be given to ALL to 'save lives' 2) 'people have always existed' This tactic then puts blood on the oppositions hands (an emotional appeal and smear through false culpability), and then accuses them of transphobia if you disagree about the number of trans people there have been (again, having debate shut down following ad hominem attacks). The issue with that is that, if it were true that the volume of children who call themselves trans now always existed in all prior generations, then you would have seen millions of child/teen suicides in the past. We do not see this, so it doesnt stack up.
@@josephleishman1982 most of the trans activists special pleading is the guilt trip that a person will off themselves. It’s frankly gross cause it holds everyone hostage and to the whim of an unknowable but ever present “at risk person.” Frankly I don’t blame anyone who becomes more callous to the trans crowds arguments because of this grenade they have in their back pocket that they will forever toss at you. Which you either demanded to jump on it or as I think most people should do is just walk over it and maybe take some flak.
@@josephleishman1982 So is the only way to argue with these people to bring up "placing an anvil on a block, standing under the block, breaking the block in minecraft" statistics to demonstrate that conversion also results in "blood on your hands" a large chunk of the time? Switch the debate from one of progress//solution to one of culpability to show that it's a lot more gray than they're trying to suggest?
@@josephleishman1982 Just want to jump in and say that I don't think your point about child suicide holds up. Suicide rates of teens/children could be increasing for many reasons today; I don't think anyone reasonable is making the claim that most teens committing suicide today are doing so because they're trans. In fact, since the actual population of trans people is very small relative to the total population, their suicides have probably always been a relatively small proportion of total child/teen suicides (something like 1% of teens "identify" as trans today). That's all to say that we have no real way of knowing how many child/teen suicides 100 years ago were because of gender dysphoria, and to assert that trans people didn't exist because we didn't see as many child/teen suicides in the past seems like a big leap in logic to me.
This frames the choice incorrectly though. Allowing them for anyone who wants them leads to mistakes since people who shouldn't take them end up taking them. Banning them leads to mistakes since people who should have taken them won't take them. The question implies that there are two opposing sides, when in reality each side is arguing for the same thing: implementing policy that makes mistakes harder to correct.
A better question is what’s the real physical difference, because really it’s the vanity of how they look to feel good in their body, so if there is no real difference why do it
@@benjaminwatson7868 And what about young people with severe body dysmorphia? Should 13 year olds who have body dysmorphia about their breasts be allowed to get breast implants? What about ones who have dysmorphia about their weight, should they be treated with liposuction? Because it makes them feel better? The science says no, because it exacerbates the problem.
@@politicsplant People should stop comparing dysmorphia to dysphoria. Dysphoria, unlike dysmorphia, is not a delusion - when a trans person looks in the mirror they see exactly what there is, it just makes them feel bad. With dysmorphia, they see a distorted image of their body. And transitioning does make people feel better - unlike allowing them to lose more weight.
“Dumb Conservatives just don’t care about Trans people, and are just evil.” Well then, you’re not going to change their minds by calling them evil. So it’s best that she stay out of debates on trans issues.
10:53 But running off and doing an extreme thing because you ASSUME doing "something" is better than doing "nothing" is often a mistake. It's literally no different than being lost in the wilderness and just taking off in a direction because staying put _feels_ like it's the wrong move. I understand the feeling, but desperation leads to BAD decisions. Calling people "heartless" and "evil" for not wanting to support people reacting really strongly while they're in a highly distressed mental state is not fair. Assuming they just don't care is the depression and the anxiety clouding their perspective. 17:30 You shouldn't even be able to conceive of "trans-civil rights" all the rights of a citizen are universal. A "trans-civil right" could only mean a person who _identifies_ as a citizen.
Yeah, it is kinda ridiculous that they write off the “conservatives” as being heartless. Although my political test said I’m right social libertarian (don’t consider myself a conservative), I’m aligned more with the conservative position but I’m for adults doing whatever they want and I won’t judge. Even for the adults that I think should be able to transition however they want, I don’t support and don’t think it’s a good idea. A lot of folks might cheer you on in Internet forums, etc for transitioning but as soon as it comes to dating or marrying a trans person, they will throw all that virtue signaling out the window and not see you as a “real” man or woman. I personally see the “conservative” position as tough love. As they will prepare you for a world that people will pretend that gender is this malleable thing but will quickly shift to seeing gender as rigid when it impacts their own lives (dating/marrying).
Its common for laws to be written to read as universal, but are practiced in a way thats discriminatory. Specifying trans in legal codes adds protection against the practices in place, though it will never fully remove them.
“Trans civil rights” means codifying the existence of trans people in law to ensure they aren’t discriminated against. Same reason why “civil rights” exist, ideally no one should be discriminated against but that doesn’t happen in practice, so it needs to be codified “don’t discriminate based on sex, race, age, etc” (1964 civil rights act)
@@SSelkie3 how can you assume that the majority of people beating trans people are conservatives and then balk at this person for making assumptions? is it safe for me to assume that your conception of bullying might just be paranoia or is that one not allowed? am i supposed to believe that these damn conservatives fear you more than you fear them?
The argument for puberty blockers being safe that says that they have been used for years to delay puberty in children who have it too early is so dumb, because they still get their puberty at the correct age so it's completely different
I just started playing banner lord and I gotta say being a Medieval woman has never come with so few disadvantages, they really neutered the role play mechanics in the sequel
@@evelynrobinson3573 I’ve been working on a video for this for a while, most defenders will essentially argue immersion doesn’t matter. The problem is that bannerlord has POTENTIAL doesn’t matter that there aren’t any total conversion mods yet, they’re coming same with vanilla I guess. Oh wait game is “released” (ie our console launch happened so let’s pretend that we implemented all the features promised in 2016) Bannerlord is fun, it’s just so incomplete and I’m tired of people shitting on its 15 year old predecessor
@@fyfaenihelvete I mean it kind of is. If you’re going to emulate real world cultures in a fictional setting, it would make sense to emulate stuff like this as well. The first game even had that. It’s kind of a tradeoff though.
The Dutch protocols also didn’t rely on the affirmation model. The sample group was limited to early onset (no late onset) and attempted to resolve dysphoria through lessor interventions prior to admittance to the sample group. This in no how the Dutch protocols are being administered in the United States. It’s 6 months of two criteria to be considered gender dysphoric and have any intervention short of transition eliminated by the affirmative model because even talking to someone about it is considered conversion therapy.
36:00 I disagree with Taftaj saying that Brianna is against the politicization of trans issues, they literally started the panel by saying "if you don't know what a woman is you shouldn't be here". Brianna is the epitome of "if you don't agree with me you're a bigot".
Gotta love how the one that claimed to be talking at an academic level on the topic was also the one that couldn't differentiate the difference between taking puberty blockers to push back natural puberty to a healthier age after premature onset, versus taking puberty blockers to effectively stop it entirely. Cherry picking data to present it in a way that only supports your point without considering the differences between what you're discussing and what that data actually represents is beneath the high school level they claimed to be above.
psychology is extremely polarizing and opinionated by nature, but every single one of them will tell you their conclusions are "scientific fact". in my experience it's like there are 50% of psych people who are brilliant and i could listen to them talk for hours, but the other 50% seem like complete morons with almost zero real justification for anything they think. sexology is even worse.
@@internethero83 Psychology can hardly be called a science. It deals with way too many conjectures and abstractions and you can't really prove anything with it.
@@noahfletcher3019 you got a mankini I can borrow? Party this weekend. Not sure if this is you or another Noah with same last name, but figured I may as well ask.
@@internethero83 there is a reason no one in the sciences respects the field ran by coke heads who think everyone wants to have relations with their parents
I think they should stop with the "testosterone makes people happier" talking point. I've heard destiny make similar statements. Long term, exogenous testosterone use has effects that are not so happy, especially for females.
Anecdotal reports from steroid users will tell you that when they are cycling off testosterone or androgen steroid They feel like shit, near suicidal idealisation. I dont get why a mental disorder is being equal to a mood disorder
I cant beleive that anyone of any age should be allowed to alter and surgically change their body. It is the biggest medical scam in all of modern history. It goes back decades. Just do research. There was a man in the 1950s who underwent such a transformation
WPATH's latest Standards of Care highlighted "eunuch" as a gender identity. So much dubiousness (to put it mildly) around transition and gender self-ID is finally coming home to roost. Erudite hasn't noticed the shift yet and it's fascinating to watch her have to soften in real time a default of unqualified support for trans rights activism.
I think she's noticed, she's just doing the natural "progressive" response to opposition: double down and continue shoving their agenda down people's throats until they agree with you. As much as I hate it when the right tries to "own the libs", I also hate it when the left plays "own the fascists". In an attempt to be all-inclusive, they end up failing because they turn away people who could be allies.
WPATH also claims that dysphoria is not necessary to be trans and that it may be a lifestyle for some. Essentially, a so-called scientific body rejects any rigorous science
Even if giving a person chemo because they "think" they have cancer, would dramatically improve their "overall health" isn't a good reason to give them actual chemo. The medical drawbacks are too high and doesn't prevent that same person from abusing chemo later on. I think that generally applies to most drugs and especially drugs/supplements/ treatments meant to physically change your bodies chemical composition and growth.
Well it’s a fact of the matter debate on if it does help. And the argument is they don’t just think something, they have an incongruency with how their mind lines up with their sex.
@@hrothgr52 what is the fact of the matter? That gender affirming care is beneficial to trans kids or that gender affirming care is beneficial for people who self ID as having gender dysphoria?
@@MrNewVegas2281 that's not bolstering pixies or destiny's chemo hypothetical which is what my post was in response to. There is no drug or treatment that can be prescribed because someone has "supposed" symptoms or self id's has having the required checks in the box to fill a prescription. Gender affirming care shouldn't be any diffrent.
@@MrBulldog855 The first. You shouldn’t be taking drugs unless you actually are trans. Which should be evaluated by trained doctors I agree. Self id is cringe af.
@@hrothgr52 I agree but destiny's and pixies later hypothetical was about whether or not giving people who self ID but don't actually have gender dysphoria gender affirming treatment or people who are on the spectrum of trans but not far enough on the spectrum to require gender affirming treatment but are pressured into taking it, would be acceptable if it could potentially negate mental health side affects of not taking the hormone blockers. They later used chemo and people who think they have cancer as a hypothetical which is what my post was in response to.
@@DavidJones-ot8qu that’s the issue ppl want to be part of collective groups. Individualism has gone that far it’s rebounding back to groups, be it trans, non binary, incel, red pill, x/y game only, like it’s a whole thing generally.
@@raquetdude i disagree, i think the desperation to be in a group has absolutely always existed, but the more groups that exist, the more diverse this will be obviously. the issue is that ppl what to not be separate, but instead of being connected individuals (which requires self assurance, awareness, and emotional security) they opt for the easier route of being connected by being apart of a group. the psychologist erich fromm has very interesting views on this
It's an issue of treating the mentally ill in this case "trans" people according to their delusion of being the opposite sex which goes back decades. Do research on how long they've been performing so called sex changes. There was a man in the 1950s who underwent such a transformation
About puberty blockers taken between ages between 13-mid twenties when many trans people complete their transition causing infertility I think looking at steroid users experiences with issues of infertility can be used as examples. The reason many men become infertile and never recover their natural hormone levels is because their testicular atrophy leads to permanent changes to the testicles. This leads to a life time of external hormone use and seems like it is comparable to stopping any growth when the genitals are supposed to.
Haven't there already been trans people who took leutenizing hormone or whatever to restart their testes to produce sperm to then have their own biological children? I'm almost positive I've read of a few of these
There's no such thing as "delaying" puberty. Puberty ends between ages of 16 and 25. If you have X years of puberty and you delay Y years, then you have X-Y years of puberty. Another thing that is astounding is that there are no studies of blockers with control groups. When studying effects of every treatment subjects are divided into 2 groups: one that receives the treatment and one that doesn't, and then group averages are compared and efficacy is determined. There isn't even one study like this for blockers. And yet another issue that studies on transition have an average follow up of 2 years. That's nothing. Of course first couple of years reports will tend to be positive. What is important is what happens 10-15 years down the line.
@@Siikayy your reply got nuked. G word most likely. You can try adding Ukrainian keyboard and replace letters i, o, a, e, c with the same cyrillic letters. Used to work for me.
There has to be people that, in a way, convince themselves they are trans or become trans for the attention and the nicer treatment on one group. I really wonder how often therapist just agree with the client and won't question further due to fear of backlash.
There are trans trenders, but I'd imagine that as soon as they get into that hormone therapy they'll probably give it up. If they don't, then they're probably unironically so unwell that they'll believe anything is wrong with them.
very often; it is also the case that many psych professionals are not desperate to actually help, but instead feel like a savior by means of “yes man”-ing people into whatever makes them temporarily satisfied. take it from someone who is in a psych grad program lmao
Recidivism being compared to acute suicidality is one of the most outlandish and speculative correlations I have ever heard anyone make. I don't care how smart Erudite is, that is completely asinine. Edit: This comment section is full of very astute observations concerning the limitation of the studies and theories that were postulated in this discussion (which I enjoyed). As a new-ish psychiatrist, I have to say I am impressed with the thinking processes undertaken by many of you.
Agreed, & acute suicidality is very problematic as a data point, anyway. The confounding factors in these studies in trans teens make them virtually useless. I will tell you that I work in clinical research & in our phase I volunteer units (where studies are conducted on healthy volunteers) we’ve recently had to make a new data field in our EDC (data capture form) called “self-reported gender” because roughly 6% of females were checking “male” and of course that was causing errors & distortion if we enrolled them in a study. Clearly, this wasn’t a problem we had a few years ago. Interestingly, this hasn’t been an issue with male patients, as they’re percentage maintained (about 0.5%) and they almost never selected female back when there was only 1 field for gender/ sex. So there’s a new cohort of females identifying as male, for sure
@@scarletsletter4466that would be social contagion at play. It's very rare for a person to be truly trans. And yet there are groups of friends, almost exclusively female, where the whole friend group identifies as trans which is near statistically impossible.
@@scarletsletter4466 I agree in this context that acute suicidality as well as many other metrics of distress are hard to tease apart from an evidence-based perspective. The quagmire of clinical research in trans/non-binary patients is a minefield of difficult controls and shoddy correlations. It is gonna take a great deal of time and sufficiently clever researchers to make clear distinctions which relationships can be inferred and which ones cannot. I do not envy your job and we need bright people to help clear up some of the postulations that are being made by those on all sides.
@Ryan Showalter the thing is there are people who believe they must be blind. Should we allow kids to blind themselves. There are people who are tattoo addicts should we allow kids to get tattoo.
@@hemmydall there is no resort for a child to falsely change their sex. putting a plastic bag over your face doesnt actually make you cute. in fact it makes you look more of an idiot
@@demonvictim That is such a rare situation, and usually has other underlying conditions that agitate it, plus its also almost never found in kids. Also, making them blind wouldn't solve the condition; that's a horrible comparison. Meanwhile studies show improvement in people genuinely suffering from some sort of gender dysmorphia once they get hormone treatments. Seeing a psychiatrist and trying step by step solutions should be a first approach, and works on a majority of cases. The same studies about the hormone treatments show improvement simply by seeing a doctor. As for the tattoo addiction, its an addiction, and feeding the addiction never helps. What kind of dumb argument is that? Unless you are implying these kids are addicted to something, in which case my point of seeking psychiatric help still applies.
The idea that children can't consent to p permanently altering their body in a sexual nature is strange to these people? And y'all winner why you get called groomers? Ya don't have to agree with conservatives to understand consent with kids
The trans suicide argument makes me a little bitter. Being a veteran seeing suicide rates for veterans 22-24 people a day 18-64 years old in 2022. The government has done ineffective policies to change this problem for decades. To hear people say “trans people are the most affected by suicide” is laughable. I love trans people but this battle to get government policy get standardized treatment for mental health is still be fought for veterans. Civilians get in line! 🫡
the trans movement moved too fast, now they are realizing in their haste they made mistakes or left loopholes that could be exploited. The problem is that the entire movement needs to reexamined from the beginning and they can't defend any of the ground they have taken.
I'm surprised Erudite is so hard on the policy stance. She admitted they don't have quite enough data but is like fk it, make it a law now because I feel it will be OK. That's not the stance I'd expect of a researcher so maybe she's got some personal bias that's pushed her off being rational. Destiny has the best stance of it might be true but we need more data before we make laws and in the absence of data you should default to the norm.
@@Idle1996 it’s unfortunate that he’s right, but he is. she is an undergrad student that felt the power/influence of having a degree and access to a large fan base, and now powertrips on nonsensical points constantly with the guise of being well-researched, even though i’d suggest her interpretations often fall short of the most basic level of critical thought you’d expect from someone with her work experience
@@UnlimitedAuthority ok literal Andy. She never says laws, she says policies and standards. Aka things that are applied with laws and have legal punishments for violating. Which is wild unless you have lefty brainrot about how nothing radical left is bad. It's not surprising that someone with your name would favor authoritarian rule without sound evidence.
@@wvance0316 "It's not surprising that someone with your name would favor authoritarian rule without sound evidence." Thank you for not describing that as "ironic"
While there hasn't been a lot of studies on this, I can't remember the exact number I think is like 12 or 13, desistance rates among minors is really high. Even the most recent study on this published in 2021 showed 51% of minors desisting and only 37% persisting, 12% the study lost contact with and were not able to follow up with. This was when there was no affirmative treatment. When affirmative treatment was given, even just social transitioning, persistent rates increased significantly the greater the treatment the greater the increase in the rate of persistence. While this is a single study that looked at changes in desistance rates from administration of affirmation treatment so the amount of data is crap. Desistance rates for minors has been studied since the 1960s and they have all found a major desist after puberty. If we are going to look at studies with limited and crappy data and say HRT and puberty blockers helps trans kids mental health I think we also have to accept limited and crappy data and say treatment for minors means we are going to give kids that would have desisted a life long struggle with gender dysphoria and all the studies we do have say that the number we are going to give a life long struggle to are going to be more than the number of kids that need the treatment. So to the compassionate individuals who empathize with the pain and struggles of trans individuals, would you condemn 1 or 2 cis individuals to become permanently transgender and suffer all that pain and suffering for a lifetime just to treat one transgender individual a few years earlier? If so, how is it ethical to cause a majority number of people life long pain to prevent anywhere from 6 to 13 years of pain for a minority of people?
good faith question: has anyone done a study into why "genuine" gender dysphoria is so prevalent now? as opposed to 100 years ago? and if suicidal ideations are so high without treatment, is there any data of suicidal ideations related to gender dysphoria before sex change treatments were an option?
Then erudite saying that "just because we are biting the bullet doesn't mean we lose!" What she means to say is "the cost probably doesn't out weight the benefit in the eyes of most people who hear this shit. This entire trans debate is predicated on the idea that conservatives don't want what is best for these people as individuals. What you need to try to do is stop saying this is right and you are wrong. Instead, tell us why your way is better than letting the kids sort it out themselves when they are adults. Yes, it sucks, but the alternative you are presenting seems to be allowing confused ass preteens to chemically mutilate their bodies and the benefits for trans people do not out weight the risks in most people's eyes. You keep saying we don't understand but we do understand what you are saying and what you are saying is fucking insane because you have not told me how you intend on filtering out confused cis kids. until you sell this in such a way that we can minimize the risk of that specific harm you will never sell it. Considering how all the reasonable trans activists gloss over this point and the crazies shout down anyone who disagrees with self ID no one will trust you people.
Should we prescribe T if it shows positive effects for other mood disorders is not a question that can be answered without being clear about the adverse side effects compared to other remedies. It’s a careless question otherwise. Say T is 10% more effective than talk therapy at curing depression, but also leaves you infertile and shortens your life span by 20 years?
Already. Less than a minute in and we have people laughing at the perfectly reasonable question of should we give puberty blocked to children? The effects are irreversible. And the counter claim is "well they are fine for kids with early onset puberty." Yes I imagine they are fine for early onset puberty because that is what they are intended to fix. My issue is whether it is fine to give it to an otherwise healthy child with a regular puberty essentially stunting their physical development during a very important stage. A stage of development during which the child is very confused and not really in a state to make permanent life altering decisions. Why the fuck can't these jokers take this question seriously?
I wonder if Destiny is aware of the huge cross section of purr narcissists he ends up conversing with (including self admittedly himself). This goes the same for F&F. People purely by choosing to be on camera on his stream, by definition are in like the top 10-20% of narcissistic people. Likely why he ends up with crazies. Likely why Destiny himself can be a bit self centered, have difficulty seeing persepctives outside his own without gaslighting others, and other telltale signs. I recall some quote by Peterson about how people who are completely not narcissitic shut down or balance out narcissists. But by definition he needs to reach out and find those people... essentially its important for him to reach out to people who disagree but have no desire to talk on his stream.
man literally a minute into it and theres already a guy getting barated by the most annoying voice ive ever heard for doubtfully stating a metric, truly a trans debate
A major part of why the research is so messy is because in science for things to be ironclad results have to be repeatable to provide consensus if you're citing studies that cannot be repeated by the scientific community you are just doing highbrow posturing. 44:50 that is why they use double blind studies to weed out placebo effect. You would never give them the chemo or testosterone in the first place you would give them the sugar pill version of both and then see what the reaction would be.
58:15 Think the only problem with that is, that you also want to force people from the outside to act that they believe that those people have the fake cancer. Think that's the biggest issue with the trans debate,that people try to force the other side to belive in their rethoric and use shame tactics if they don't, think otherwise no one would care as much.
I really wish that I could talk to you. I'm a conservative, and I was raised by two gay Dads and a single Mom, all of them conservatives, and I truly do care for trans people and trans issues, and wish that not all conservatives would be painted with a brush of ignorance. I believe that these people are God's children as well, and should be treated with love and respect. I think that if the age of consent is sixteen in some parts of the states, then sixteen year olds should be able to make that choice if they want to transition, to save them from a rough puberty. But I also believe that the screening process should be a little more rigorous. We love you, Destiny. Love from Missouri and God Bless.
This! All of this!!! My sibling is bisexual, and right-leaning. Half of my family are left-leaning. The other half is more right-leaning. The only people I hate are those who act in bad faith and genuine criminals. Then I see people saying “all republicans/conservatives are NAZIs/Fascists” and, on the other side, “all liberals are Socialists/Communists”! Things aren’t black or white! You can’t just make broad generalizations about what a certain group of people believe, because that’s exactly what many people in the past often did, and look where it lead them! The worst genocides and oppressive practices often came out of the people who generalized and lumped people into groups the most! It’s just so frustrating that people like you and I talk about this so much, and it feels like shouting into a brick wall. I guess that’s just the internet, though, unfortunately . . .
Its a problem that people do the brush stroking of conservatives. The big issue is that many of the conservative politicians today are openly anti-trans, and many red states are trying to pass laws against trans people. Yet they consistently keep getting elected by their base, despite the majority of the base itself disagreeing with the policies they are currently pushing. Until the base stops voting these extreme conservatives in, they will get some of the blame for their representatives' actions.
Translation: "I'm a fake Conservative that thinks bodily mutilation is fine as long the person is of age and I'm fine with an increasing number of mentally ill people refusing to deal with their REAL mental problems, living in a fantasy, and advocating for the destruction of women's sex based rights. I fully accept the insane premise that puberty is a problem that needs to be solved and not natural human development necessary for proper function and growth. PLEASE BLUE HAIRED LIBERAL MAN WITH A GIRLS NAME, LOVE ME!"
I'm reading these comments and I don't see enough conversation about how idiotic it is to double down on mass muta when you see a terran build a bunch of thors
If these children aren't old enough to choose what they want to do with their lives because they're adult brains aren't fully mature enough yet to comprehend the choices they are making or certain repercussions. And then you have other things, such as drinking, driving, voting, getting a job, then I don't see how they are able to make this massive life-changing decision that they may or may not regret such as puberty blockers and or gender reassignment surgery before they are of age.
That's what many of us have been saying. The problem is that we only hear from conservative groups and not progressive and liberals. I'm a progressive but I don't agree with letting kids have this choice.
As a conservative, I found this conversation enlightening,n probably having made me somewhat more openminded. In fact, I think they addressed all my concerns
More clinical trials and experimenting is exactly what needs to happen 100%. Making policy this early in the trans question is so dumb for both pro and anti trans people.
No, we do not need to "experiment" anymore. No one is "born in the wrong body". That's not a thing. These people are mentally ill. There's nothing physically wrong them.
@@ng38477 We treat mentally ill people with therapy, prescription drugs, and lifestyle changes. HRT is just another treatment option, but it needs more testing to be a viable option for people with gender dysphoria. I'm not a big fan of the current trans movement but denying people an opportunity to alleviate their suffering is WRONG. I have MDD, therapy, antidepressants, and even being at my most fit did not give any meaningful improvement to my condition. If Ketamine treatments or what Erudite suggested Psilocybin were more accessible, I would jump on that opportunity IMMEDIATELY. It doesn't make sense to limit a person's treatment options.
@@NarskiiYT They are quite good at weaponizing language to brainwash people. You are a good example. Not today Satan. No, we give them THE CORRECT DRUGS. Not hormones. If you have problem with hormones, guess what you get? Hormones. They don't have a hormone problem. There is nothing wrong with their bodies. It's a mental problem. All of this you know. This is NOT HRT. There are not "replacing" anything. They are getting WRONG levels of hormones to mold their bodies into the opposite sex. They want the sex based characteristics of the opposite sex. This you know. NO, we don't "more testing". Why do we need more "testing"? We need to continue to "test" the completely the irrational treatment of people with delusions? You all need stopping acting like can't think logically. It's pure emotion. I don't need to give anyone the opportunity to live a lie, be a nuisance, and ignore their REAL problems. The problem is the mind. Not the body. Your situation is NOT the same. Are you gonna start guzzling cross-sex hormones for your depression? NO, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. It's the same situation but you all so emotional and irrational. Are you guys gonna start advocating for "life-saving" liposuction for Anorexics next? Call it "Weight-Affirming Care".
29:06 Now, THAT'S saying the quiet part out loud. The trans conversation has drifted so far from serious medical realities to young, whiny females claiming these pseudo trans identities arbitrarily because they can't cope with simply being allys to trans issues and they have no sense of identity. I know that's harsh, but it's true and it's, in my opinion, one of the biggest problems for anything serious revolving around trans issues.
The problem is Parents taking advice from children. Its insane. Taking all these pills and testing. Clinical bullshit is not worth it Men and women. Gay or straight. Sex Anyway you desire. Just stop all the madness.
@@haydens5321 she’s often irrational. she uses data that has various confounds, but without the capacity to assess the confounds. for example, suicide attempts are not the same as suicide; not even in the slightest. statistics on happiness improving is another one; let’s say your happiness improves because u have a more reinforced ability to neglect deep-seated insecurities, but now ur less likely to ever be able to deal with them, is this really a positive ? she seems incapable of dealing with any of this
so my question is, how do these selected people get selected for these studies. How do they know that these selected people don't have any other psychological morbidities? To me this sounds like a survey because to my knowledge there is no medical diagnosis for this issue... Or am I outdated on this one?
Can we talk about over representation of high ACE scores amongst LGBTQ and the possibility that abusive/neglectful environments could be fostering conditions that promote gender dysphoria?
I've come to the conclusion that this is the second attempt of eugenics where the last cultural shift to eugenics started around the 1920s and ended after ww2. Those most likely to fall into this trap are typically those on the socially awkward side and don't fit nicely in the box or the parent(s) are mauchosen by proxy which in either case ends with a sterile population of people that don't understand what they are doing.
@@CrimzFN as Sonny mentioned its a metric for measuring adverse childhood experiences using a score of 0-10. High scores are correlated with higher likelihood of poor outcomes such as developing physical and mental ailments.
if people talk about stats in academic papers, they should know what the terms mean. p-value is not the probability of a hypothesis being true or false.
I hope someone like NotSoErudite tries to raise awareness of this, because it is absolutely crucial that these public figures have an understanding of how to interpret inferential stats if they want to even approach the results sections of these studies.
@@eilrahc567 Inferential statistics are not intuitive, especially Null Hypothesis Significance Testing (NHST), which is what the majority of social sciences use. This is why "science journalists" should be a proper and recognised profession. As often you see debates like this where what is said is wrong, but it doesn't get picked up at all.
Gender dysphoria is a psychopathology, whereas precocious puberty is a congenital endocrine disorder. Trans youth have a laundry list of comorbidities such as PTSD, OCD, narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder and autism spectrum disorder. We should be treating comorbidities and then assessing for the dysphoric symptoms and see if they persist even after treating the comorbidities. These people don't know much of anything about mental health/psychopathologies.
"Transwomen" or males are going to have increased rates of SI and SI gestures due to their comorbidity of NPD/BPD. Testosterone is activating and can have an antidepressant affect but, it's temporary.
@@MrNewVegas2281 doing shit like this makes it seem like u don’t have any actual argument to stand on; i know it’s hard to see it from ur perspective, but that’s how it comes off to those not already bought into ur ideology
@Johnny Guitar transwomen are another category of male. That's not a deeply held opinion. That's just a reality. If we're going to say that gender is a social construct but sex is biological then I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that.
That person saying "It must feel bad to be talking at a high school level while we're talking at an academic level", man idk who that is but I hate him and I assume everything he's saying is wrong just on principle.
57:04 which is why if you have any anxiety disorder, they give you antidepressants and only if you have panic attack disorders you can access benzos. I would know, I’m on anti depressants since I was 14 because I have tons of anxiety disorders and severe general anxiety disorder. Benzos are used when you’re panicking cause your body will get used to them and get addicted.
really? I just told my GP that i had anxiety and he gave me a .25 mg xanax script. This was probably about 15 years ago though so im sure its changed with the opiod epidemic
I don't think you're giving a fair side for conservatives, conservatives in general do care about the people who are trans, but they just view transgenderism as a completely faulty ideology, which is why they will reject it even after it's proven that medically transitioning works. That doesn't make them monsters, and that doesn't mean they "don't care about transgender people", it just means that they value (most likely for religious reasons as well as a visceral reaction to anything which is part of the sexual liberation movement) rejecting transgenderism over those transgender peoples experiences
i also think saying “transiting works” is a stretch. let’s enter a world where ppl aren’t trans as we view it, but instead transition as an attempt to distance themselves from who they actually are as a broader attempt to run from deep-seated insecurities; transitioning and having ppl acknowledge this transition would still likely make these folks “happier,” but i would argue, ultimately, that would hinder them from ever actually being content. instead, they just get to be deluded and emotionally underdeveloped forever, which i think most folks would report makes them happier
That's like saying "conservatives don't hate the gays! We just think we can save them from their inner evil and put them back on the path towards righteousness, and we're going to do that by whatever means necessary."
Are you content poisoned? This was a reasonable conversation. She is listening and taking on board opposing points. Are you sure that you aren't the unreasonable one?
part of this discussion suggests to me that we are trying to create an ‘ideal’ human condition, such in the case of early or late development when chemicals are dispensed to ‘correct’ an ‘abnormal’ situation … what is ‘ideal’? whose place is it to define what should be the ‘norm’? and are we justified in forcing an ‘ideal’ onto others, especially if the person either cannot consent and/or doesn’t fully understand the consequences of these therapies? and does this form an uncomfortable bridge into genetic therapy either prior to conception or in utero? one could call such genetic alterations eugenics, which is a concept we’ve worked hard to disavow and make obsolete. and now some want to bring it back, in a similar way as segregation and racism being used in the struggle against bigotry - it becomes hypocritical at some point, and people don’t see the irony.
I'm just going to stick with the Taoist interpretation on this whole topic. Many people have lost their sense of identity because they have become overly focused on external factors such as their roles, labels, and possessions. True identity is not something that can be found by searching for it, but rather by letting go of the search and being present in the moment, quieting the mind, and letting go of our thoughts and beliefs about ourselves. By doing so, we can access a deeper level of understanding and connection with ourselves and the world, and live a more authentic and fulfilling life. I'm sure I'll get hate from pro-trans people from this take, but I don't really care what random strangers on the internet want to say about my beliefs. It appears to me that foundational to the belief that being trans, that you MUST believe in what is effectively a soul, or that you are a little being locked up in a bag of skin that you never chose. People en masse have bought into the idea that we are somehow separate in a real sense from the universe, "A stranger and afraid in a world we never made". Which essentially leads me to the conclusion that these people are just confusing the world as it is with the world how it is described, talked about, and figured about.
@@natestevens8951 To be fair it's not just trans people that this refers to, but in order to hold a belief in being transgender you necessarily must believe that you are something different from your body (not necessarily the case with transsexuals). This belief is also shared by other people religious and otherwise. But yes, I could have just written "people are confused" without justifying or explaining the stance any further and just let people make their own assumptions off my beliefs rather than explain it.
The issue is that teen rates of self harm are skyrocketing at the same time we are adopting all these new ideas about gender identity that are supposedly meant to alleviate this issue for some number of kids. We are pulling the rug out on a foundational part of identity, to a certain degree. Being a boy/girl is something the vast majority of human beings for the entirety of history has been able to establish at an extremely young age. To present a fluidity to something that foundational for kids at a time when identity is somewhat precarious anyway risks damaging more children than actually benefit. It’s a matter of being concerned about more than just the ones you’re trying to help. Kids are impressionable and vulnerable by their nature. That goes for all kids. And it’s fair to question why issues of self harm have increased dramatically at the same time we have adopted some of these seemingly radical identity concepts. That doesn’t mean they’re necessarily correlated, but it’s not unfair to be concerned.
They are willing to throw the majority and "normal" people under the bus for the outliers. Studies have shown 90% of boys that doubt their gender as kids simply grow out if it by the time they become adults. Yet now we want to have those boys question their gender and affirm their doubts. PS: most of these boys end up simply being gay.
Self harm is also skyrocketing in non trans teens, no? Or do you think transness is affecting teens whether or not they are trans, making them unhappy?
@@YoungGzBlitz It may also have to do with the fact that over the past years people have been told "white men are bad", then "all men are bad", then "white women arn't as oppressed as black women" and so on, the suicide rates are these ideas put onto teens in school (a very emotionaly difficult time for everyone) being told they're bad for society
@@YoungGzBlitz it’s more the breaking down of identity in general that I find concerning. Up until very recently, forming an identity was easy. Think about it. You are born. You’re a boy. You belong to a family from a place. You probably have a religion and culture. So now, for instance, you are an Italian boy from New York from an Italian family who is also Catholic. You have all this foundation for which to build the rest of yourself on top of. Now you might say that was too restrictive. It didn’t work for many people. But you’d have to admit, it was good for most people. Restrictions aren’t always bad. Guardrails are restrictive, but they keep you from going off a cliff sometimes. My concern is that as we strip away all the guardrails, a lot of young people are getting lost and going off cliffs. Not just Trans people, but everybody. Families are all screwed up. Communities are broken. You might not even be confident you’re a boy/girl. It’s not a recipe for happiness.
If the outspoken pro trans community would take the nuanced approach that Taftaj has there would not be this extreme blow back. I think the vast majority of adults agree that there needs to be better care available, including talk therapy, hormone therapy with careful monitoring, and improvement to surgical interventions. The person that spoke about their experience as a young person that said hormone therapy solved their problems was very easy to feel bad for. The problem is if every kid that anyone thinks may be trans is just given hormone therapy the majority of those people will grow out of it and many will have changes to their bodies that can't be reversed. The detrans men and women can also have extremely sad stories and higher suicide rates than the general population.
My biggest disagreement with destiny is at the 54:00 mark when he says conservatives have no compassion, that is bullshit, they just are concerned about the kids and people who arent Trans but get told by Tik-Tok influencers and other ilk like them who just dogpile on them saying they are trans. The people who dont have compassion are far right people like matt walsh who is an ass (and i am conservative) and far left people who care more about being “virtuous” then the mental health of others. We need to stop acting like the other side is a monster just because they disagree. Most conservatives have an issue with this since we dont have long term studies that all point to the same conclusion and are repeatable, we have one off studies but we need more, its the same with the whole covid vaccine issue, i didn’t get it even though it was Trump who got the ball rolling because i dont trust the long term possible effects. The Flu vaccine wasn’t cleared for human use for nearly a hundred years because they wanted long term effect studies
Exactly. Last year the FDA reported that 6 girls experienced vision loss and swelling of the brain due to them taking puberty blockers. Swelling of the brain is extremely dangerous as it can cause permanent brain damage or brain death aka literal death. Not just that but the effects that puberty blockers have on the development of the teenage brain aren't known and we're being fed the lie that puberty blockers are fully reversible. Considering all of this it boggles my mind that some people think that kids that aren't even old enough to decide their bed time can meaningfully consent to take such drugs. I'm not a conservative, I'm a moderate leftist and I couldn't agree more with conservatives on this issue.
Which specific treatment should be used for a specific diagnosis should always be at the discretion of each individual patient and their doctors. Imagine if people just randomly started piping up about wether an emergency colonoscopy is indicated for a lower GI bleed. It is a controversial issue with a lot at stake and affects way more people than gender dysphoria. Of course nobody talks about it, which makes complete sense because wtf could the average person even contribute there? These things shouldn't be subject to political discussions.
And as long as young people don't start a trend of self-diagnosing themselves with a lower GI bleed and attempting to get themselves fast-tracked into emergency colonoscopies, it'll stay that way.
@@DoctorPhileasFragg How would that change anything? If young people diagnosed themselves with lower GI bleeds and both their doctors and parents agreed to an emergency colonoscopy that'd still be no one else's business.
@@iz2333then I guess it wasn’t just Self ID that validated it? Basically kid claims they have something and I take a sample and get doctors and equipment and it comes back they *actually* had it. Then no duh give them treatment. The problem people have is Kid IDs as having this and we don’t do the testing or anything we just give them treatment. Thats the problem people have and we should as pro Trans people make this clarity.
@@DoctorPhileasFraggdoctors? So lets say Doctors (DO THEIR JOB and confirm the child has the disease) and they agree because he/she actually has it. Thats what Iz was saying.
Erudite’s position here is actually kind of unhinged. First trying to argue that adding co-morbidities to a sample population would only increase the effect size of the treatment, like is incomprehensible that there might be some co-morbidities that could decrease the effect size or even reverse it. That was wild. Then saying we still should implement HRT as the standard of care, even though there’s minimal research showing only very small positive effects, because “well it points in that direction”. Exactly like with the co-morbidities, it’s entirely possible that more research might show that effect size disappear or even reverse to show negative outcomes. Then the appeal to emotion with “what about the kids struggling now”. First, that logic wouldn’t be applied for any other circumstance and she gave no reason why this should be a special exception. Second, if it turns out that HRT actually has negative long term effects then implementing it now would be worse for those same struggling kids. She acknowledges all the issues with her position when Destiny actually pushes even a bit, so it just seems like she has some cognitive dissonance on this issue.
@@gregmumbai333 how about nobody? we know what this is being pushed for. It's not health care it's for this crazy trans agenda. If you try to push for puberty blockers in kids you're a gross pedo. Nothing more to it. Kids are dumb and influenced incredibly easily so keep these weirdos away from kids.
Depending on what Destiny says, I may or may not agree with him
Lmao no shit
based take
To be fair, many people can't do that. America is full of sheep. It would be helpful if they could actually think for themselves. I don't mind different views, as long as they're your views and not parroting your favorite media influences. Well done. 🙂
Destiny is a G.O.A.T debater but he needs to let this transgender mess go. I personally have a lot of friends on the left that just can’t get behind these extremes.
Disagree, I agree with Destiny even if he’s wrong😎
A gnome and two elves have a conversation about transformation magic
Underrated comment
More like 2 gnomes and one elf.
Lollll
“If you take someone that doesn’t have cancer but *believe* they have cancer, is it ethical to give them chemo treatments if they believe it’s making them feel better”
Destiny unintentionally described Chuck from Better Call Saul
Greatest legal mind I ever knew obamna
Then you tell Chuck that the planet has an electro magnetic field....
*Chuck Implodes*
@@RustedBuddy5192 but but faraday cages!
of course not, medical doctors first oath is do no harm, no medical school will teach that this is ethical
I'm not sure this is the right way to put it, Chemo will actually kill you with time.
I can testify to the fact that trans people share contact data of therapists who don't question them and just say yes to everything.
Also I think these days a lot of people confuse personality with gender. The whole "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" is super dangerous and stupid.
I guess we will find out the hard way in a few years if our way of treating kids who think they are trans was good or bad. I have a feeling that there will be a lot of people with regrets.
Gender is intrinsically tied to personal expression, gender dysphoria is just one way the discrepancy between what someone's expected behavior is and there personal identify manifests.
yeah there are unironically girls who like a few male hobbies and think that therefore they must be trans. Trans people are a very small percentage of the population
Can I say that the whole label of “Truscum” is rediculous and gross?
It’s a label made by people who have opposing beliefs about the issue that is literally pronounced “True Scum”.
I can’t believe that it was even accepted at any point by any person, especially if those people considered themselves to be accepting and open to others’ beliefs.
It’s not even “personality” anymore, it’s all aesthetics. Even Demonmama said it aloud for everyone to hear, gender is just aesthetic to these people. Hence why I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to doubt the fact that Demonmama is even trans in the first place
I'm convinced that no trans person actually believes that you dont need dysphoria to be trans. Every trans person ive ever met has dysphoria; and the people ive known who said they dont have dysphoria, never actually started medical transition and just changed their prounouns for a few months or something. I know theres probably people online who genuinely believe that but I dont think its something thats turning into a problem. Theres always going to be outliers but i dont think that justifies extensive medical gatekeeping when not all trans people have the same 'textbook' experience of dysphoria.
The “yeah but that’s the argument conservatives make” take is fascinating. You all admit the data isn’t there, but because conservatives point to the same data you negate the claim. It’s nothing if not impressive.
Very funny, you think conservatives give a fuck about data.
@@UnlimitedAuthority great response
@@Kyle-qf5zcWhat did he say? RUclips has hid his response.
That is the Standard Mentality of the Ideologue.
@@pariah_carey crimestop
I honestly think that the slogan “trans women are women” caused a lot of unnecessary problems in the trans discourse. A slogan like “trans people are real” would’ve been so much more capable of bringing normies on board for trans rights. Another issue is having this trans umbrella that includes non binary people and that just confuses normies because they don’t care enough to educate themselves on the differences between binary transsexual and non binary transgenders because it’s “too confusing” and gives bad faith actors the opportunity to prop up bearded they/thems. as “look at these crazy transes thinking they’re the same as a biological woman”. Also the left needs to face some hard truths like the fact that there is such a thing as social contagion because look at all the detransiotioners that have come out in the last year. But no, the left pretends they either don’t exist or they’re all right wing grifters or whatever.
Its not that it’s too confusing for the everyday person, it’s just people don’t care about it cuz it’s less than 1% of the population is trans and the people backing the trans ideology are unhinged
Preach brother preach, more people need to hear this
The reality is most of the people virtue signaling and saying that will throw it all out the window when you ask them to date or marry a trans person. Most people have been lying to themselves and cherry picking studies. That will only go so far.
I genuinely don't understand the point of non-binary transgender people. You don't feel like either sex matters to you, but you don't transition in any meaningful way, so why are you even qualified as trans? I don't even know why they matter in the discussion tbh
Men being told their transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a trans person also highly divided people... For obvious reasons.
"Do you realize that puberty bloclers have been used to stave of puberty for 40 50 years"
Yes however it was typically prescribed to children with genetic anomalies where a 8 year old starts going through puberty NOT normal kids who have a typical development. A HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference. The 8 year old going through puberty can mess up their growth plates at a young age and cause massive developmental issues when they should normaly go through puberty ergo why they have to stop the early puberty until an appropriate age.
No one questioned that, but saying that puberety blockers can cause problems is ''highscool level biology'' meanwhile all the rest is academic level
@@aguspuig6615 Delaying puberty has irreversible effects.
Also this is very temporary, staving off puberty for a few years vs stopping it and showering them with affirmation that they should do this forever, and that if they stop... they face the wrath of the trans community which has a way oversized reach.
8 year old? Growth plates or bones causing development issues? Yeah you have no idea what you're talking about
@Mustard Skaven You like being slightly shorter, then you would be otherwise, and less bone density.
To cut past the circlejerk of "well I've read X amount of studies":
The reasons we don't have research for kids being on puberty blockers for decades is because
1. They might still be ongoing
2. The use case is usually for kids who are going through puberty too early or for hypothyroidism
3. Having kids be on them for decades is _really really new_ . Everything about transgenderism is new, we don't have enough years of research yet.
I thought transgenderism has been around for centuries?
@@USMC0311CplJackson Technically yes it has been but now Transgenderism is being accepted as thing and treatments to ease its ailments such as therapy, medicine, surgery, etc are now being introduced and only have been introduced at this scale in the last 10 or so years with the bare minimum of this treatment being the normal application maybe 20 years ago. Does that make sense?
@@USMC0311CplJackson transgenderism has been around since early civilization or since people were capable of categorizing themselves. The actual research and scientific literature is fairly new
The other big problem I'm noticing is we talk about all puberty blockers as if they all do the same thing, when in fact different puberty blockers do really different things. Like Lupron and Bicalutamide are two totally different conversations.
@@testcase6997 It sounds like what's happening is some people stay on blockers into adulthood because they suppress their natural hormones.
Erudite's weird statement that she can assume the effect and magnitude of an intervention by referening a different study, on a different subject, with different variables, may be one of the most unscientific things you can say.
She's fantastically unintelligent. She overestimates her intellect by a factor of about 4
Here's the other side minus the trolling, and memes. We believe Trans people are real. We don't deny their existence. We believe Trans people should have the same rights as everyone else. We believe Trans people deserve the same respect anyone else has. ....
What we don't agree with is the imposition. You create a new term out of nowhere and demand people to use it, no matter how many times you change it. We don't agree that the word woman should be replaced with "People with the capacity for pregnancy" We don't believe the word mother should be replaced with "Birthing persons".
We also believe if a woman says she feels uncomfortable undressing in a public place with a male with his genitals intact who happens to identify as a woman, we should hear the biological woman out. Why is it you feel women's voices should be heard...unless it conflicts with someone who identifies as a woman Instead of being born one.
We also disagree with the moral blackmail attempts by trans activists that say we either agree with you, or our disagreement leads to trans death. It's a disgusting thing to do. The phrase "A live daughter, or a dead boy" is beyond reprehensible and it's a phrase doctors use to scare parents into dangerous surgery we have yet to fully understand.
And lastly, the idea that we have quadrupled the number of trans kids in the past almost decade is because they were afraid to come out to an unwelcoming world and it has nothing to do with, or very little to do with social contagion is an outright lie.
In order to fully support the trans community we have to set up a series of lies to make them feel comfortable. If a person has to lie and ignore reality to make you feel better then you're the problem, not us.
I truly feel bad for the members of the trans community who realize the trans activism has gone too far. But you need to talk to your community because they are undoing a lot of goodwill that was very much earned. Now it's gone nuts.
True and based
Just before anyone tries to ask "who is we?" I'll be the first to say I'm one of these people.
they are not out of nowhere
Agreed except the 2 points
Terms are not meant to be sacred or never changing.
And the social contangion part. The reason number of trans people have increased is because they can come out without fear of persecution which earlier was not possible . Now the social environment is more accepting of them. The social contangion part plays a very minor role
Thank you! A perfect comment.
Destiny has not only taught me so much about trans issues but he's also helped me love and respect women.
i agree mr turtly
He’s already married ❤
Can you stop repeating the same shit?
Word well when hate is given to you by mere existence you tend reflect what's given to you but you learn fighting fire with fire only creates more fire, love only the ones that love you
Destiny has taught me they even reasonable “Lefties” are incapable of being transparent for the sake of being transparent,
and would rather assume a position that they believe will have the best outcome (rather than simply advocating The Truth).
Great creep spread! When going up against a terran who turtles this much with ghost mech, I think you need to 1) take as many bases as possible to offset the fact that he will have better army efficiency. 2) You have to keep attacking the weak bases. Never just attack into his army, even though it can get very frustrating playing against this style. Thats how you lose all your army supply in one fight. Instead, keep pivoting from one base to the other in order to force him to unsiege his tanks and libs. But most importantly: Take as many bases as possible and immediatly retreat when you think you are running into his sieged up main army next to his static defense.
This fucker is just here for the sc2 gameplay
The fuck
There are many schools where more students identify as trans or non-binary than identify as literate or proficient in math
this reads like a retarded AI, do you think he reads youtube comments?
Im just amazed this wasnt a “haha destiny girl name “ joke
nerd
NotSoEurodite is trying way too hard to justify a conclusion she's obviously married to.
not the first time, if there's any opposition she tends to freak out and accuse you of not believing experts and science even if there's a possible alternative option
I love when she cackled at the conservative and then like 30 seconds later discussed with Taf how there actually /are/ side effects of puberty blockers, including infertility in some cases. It was hilarious for her to switch stances within seconds depending in who she was talking to.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks she looks horrible here.
Why is it that when RJ says “hey, puberty blockers can cause problems”, he’s told he’s working on Middle/High School levels of science, and kicked off the podcast . . .
But then they go on to talk about the same things and AGREE with him before bashing him further and saying he’s “not ready to be at the adult table”, and nobody calls it out?
It just seems like a super toxic relationship that RJ should get out of.
Did they actually kick him off the stream? Madness...
@@decentralizeddemocracy8335 This was just at the very beginning of the video. It was insane.
My brain is being very ADHD and anti-political, today, so I didn’t watch more than that.
I knew just continuing to listen to people who ban/block others for saying something, and then repeating the thing that person said while saying it’s a valid point would just make me angry, lol. Like, keep them on so they can actually listen to you and try to understand you, and at least reason with you! Don’t just block them from speaking!
I have periods where I can handle listening to this kinda stuff, but I guess I’m just politic’ed out, today lol!
@@MollyMargolisBillCipherIsBae yeah I couldn't take it either. Good thing Short Fat Otaku is streaming right now. I need a safe space.
@@decentralizeddemocracy8335 He is? I’ve never caught a stream from him before.
Well, i think I have, but i think he had facecam on and he was on a couch.
I guess I may have been confused lol!
yeah, its wierd how this is one of the few Destiny vids where everyone seems to like the discussion but a guy just got totally bullied for something no one on the panel really disagrees with and no one batted an eye. He talked in a tone that had no passive agression or bad faith to it, worst he did was cite ''badly researched studies'' i dont think that warrants a kick, or getting barated
This may be the best trans discussion I've heard. So refreshing to hear a debate that isn't about political posturing but instead actually cares about what might be right for people.
It's a dream convo. I actually learned something without someone getting personally invested and super triggered.
As a german, it is absolutely crazy to me the this are not thr kind of debates that happen on CNN or Fox news. If you watch that, it is always the culture war nonsense
"So refreshing to hear a debate that isn't about political posturing but instead actually cares about what might be right for people.". It's crazy how if this had been said about Jordan Peterson in 2018 I would've absolutely agreed. Crazy how much things can change in a relatively short amount of time.
For real. I wish the larger discussion was centered around this. We’d probably be able to help people better and decrease the divisiveness.
@@amaipls it’s like JP totally lost his patience with facts and studies and trying to fact people out of emotional conclusions.
Funny how erudite and others suddenly admit this difference between real trans now that destiny had the balls to come out and say it. I’ve heard trans arguments for years where they all ignored this. And it’s not new.. this is what conservatives have been making fun of for years.
This, they just talk about their studies and how the opposition is a science denying dumb f***. I guarantee you if someone that wasn’t Destiny said that, she’d argue that it is about a lack of compassion and they haven’t read the studies.
Yup.
Did a bit of a double take when people started taking "autism gender" as a real thing.
Destiny had this stance for a long time, its nothing new
@Justifano I don't believe the more radical ideas like self-id, xeno-pronouns, "trans women are biological women" etc. are widespread on the left in general, although leftist Twitter may make it appear that way. It has ultimately been bad for the trans community and more broadly the left regardless
Erudite been saying this since day 1.
I actually despise the idea that inaction in the face of such an overwhelming lack of concrete information surrounding a topic is "evil".
It's so disingenuous to suggest that a person is beyond redemption because they believe that a mental illness warrants hesitation and some hefty pushback.
It doesn't matter how wrong you think they are. This is quite literally the most complicated topic that society faces right now, because it requires a scientific explanation for a series of feelings and results in sketchy treatment for children, two things that no person in their right mind would immediately embrace, ESPECIALLY when the research only spans maybe two decades. It might actually be the case that you're causing children more harm by further ostracizing the parents.
It doesnt even stack up. The pro trans side of the debate will argue:
1) if you dont transition people they will end their life, so medical treatment should be given to ALL to 'save lives'
2) 'people have always existed'
This tactic then puts blood on the oppositions hands (an emotional appeal and smear through false culpability), and then accuses them of transphobia if you disagree about the number of trans people there have been (again, having debate shut down following ad hominem attacks).
The issue with that is that, if it were true that the volume of children who call themselves trans now always existed in all prior generations, then you would have seen millions of child/teen suicides in the past. We do not see this, so it doesnt stack up.
@@josephleishman1982 Great points!
@@josephleishman1982 most of the trans activists special pleading is the guilt trip that a person will off themselves. It’s frankly gross cause it holds everyone hostage and to the whim of an unknowable but ever present “at risk person.” Frankly I don’t blame anyone who becomes more callous to the trans crowds arguments because of this grenade they have in their back pocket that they will forever toss at you. Which you either demanded to jump on it or as I think most people should do is just walk over it and maybe take some flak.
@@josephleishman1982
So is the only way to argue with these people to bring up "placing an anvil on a block, standing under the block, breaking the block in minecraft" statistics to demonstrate that conversion also results in "blood on your hands" a large chunk of the time? Switch the debate from one of progress//solution to one of culpability to show that it's a lot more gray than they're trying to suggest?
@@josephleishman1982 Just want to jump in and say that I don't think your point about child suicide holds up. Suicide rates of teens/children could be increasing for many reasons today; I don't think anyone reasonable is making the claim that most teens committing suicide today are doing so because they're trans. In fact, since the actual population of trans people is very small relative to the total population, their suicides have probably always been a relatively small proportion of total child/teen suicides (something like 1% of teens "identify" as trans today). That's all to say that we have no real way of knowing how many child/teen suicides 100 years ago were because of gender dysphoria, and to assert that trans people didn't exist because we didn't see as many child/teen suicides in the past seems like a big leap in logic to me.
Destiny should have asked her , "if it comes out that blockers are harmfull to the majority of children would you ban them for gender "care"
This frames the choice incorrectly though. Allowing them for anyone who wants them leads to mistakes since people who shouldn't take them end up taking them. Banning them leads to mistakes since people who should have taken them won't take them. The question implies that there are two opposing sides, when in reality each side is arguing for the same thing: implementing policy that makes mistakes harder to correct.
A better question is what’s the real physical difference, because really it’s the vanity of how they look to feel good in their body, so if there is no real difference why do it
@@benjaminwatson7868 And what about young people with severe body dysmorphia? Should 13 year olds who have body dysmorphia about their breasts be allowed to get breast implants? What about ones who have dysmorphia about their weight, should they be treated with liposuction? Because it makes them feel better? The science says no, because it exacerbates the problem.
@@La0bouchere the issue is it would literally be impossible to actually parse out who “needs” them and who doesn’t
@@politicsplant People should stop comparing dysmorphia to dysphoria.
Dysphoria, unlike dysmorphia, is not a delusion - when a trans person looks in the mirror they see exactly what there is, it just makes them feel bad. With dysmorphia, they see a distorted image of their body. And transitioning does make people feel better - unlike allowing them to lose more weight.
“Dumb Conservatives just don’t care about Trans people, and are just evil.”
Well then, you’re not going to change their minds by calling them evil. So it’s best that she stay out of debates on trans issues.
Do you think the vocal conservatives on this issue can have their mind changed?
@@ellisfontana6723 when I went to law school, my professors taught us; “your job is not to change the mind of the opposing counsel”
@@arkad6329 You left the part out about the jury having to be swayed with arguments and evidence. Nice try though
10:53
But running off and doing an extreme thing because you ASSUME doing "something" is better than doing "nothing" is often a mistake. It's literally no different than being lost in the wilderness and just taking off in a direction because staying put _feels_ like it's the wrong move.
I understand the feeling, but desperation leads to BAD decisions. Calling people "heartless" and "evil" for not wanting to support people reacting really strongly while they're in a highly distressed mental state is not fair. Assuming they just don't care is the depression and the anxiety clouding their perspective.
17:30
You shouldn't even be able to conceive of "trans-civil rights" all the rights of a citizen are universal. A "trans-civil right" could only mean a person who _identifies_ as a citizen.
Yeah, it is kinda ridiculous that they write off the “conservatives” as being heartless. Although my political test said I’m right social libertarian (don’t consider myself a conservative), I’m aligned more with the conservative position but I’m for adults doing whatever they want and I won’t judge.
Even for the adults that I think should be able to transition however they want, I don’t support and don’t think it’s a good idea. A lot of folks might cheer you on in Internet forums, etc for transitioning but as soon as it comes to dating or marrying a trans person, they will throw all that virtue signaling out the window and not see you as a “real” man or woman.
I personally see the “conservative” position as tough love. As they will prepare you for a world that people will pretend that gender is this malleable thing but will quickly shift to seeing gender as rigid when it impacts their own lives (dating/marrying).
Its common for laws to be written to read as universal, but are practiced in a way thats discriminatory. Specifying trans in legal codes adds protection against the practices in place, though it will never fully remove them.
I haven’t even watched the vid yet but I agree with your points already. Bravo 👏🏽
“Trans civil rights” means codifying the existence of trans people in law to ensure they aren’t discriminated against. Same reason why “civil rights” exist, ideally no one should be discriminated against but that doesn’t happen in practice, so it needs to be codified “don’t discriminate based on sex, race, age, etc” (1964 civil rights act)
@@SSelkie3 how can you assume that the majority of people beating trans people are conservatives and then balk at this person for making assumptions? is it safe for me to assume that your conception of bullying might just be paranoia or is that one not allowed? am i supposed to believe that these damn conservatives fear you more than you fear them?
The argument for puberty blockers being safe that says that they have been used for years to delay puberty in children who have it too early is so dumb, because they still get their puberty at the correct age so it's completely different
this should turn into a mount and blade warband community
I just started playing banner lord and I gotta say being a Medieval woman has never come with so few disadvantages, they really neutered the role play mechanics in the sequel
Yesss love bannerlord
@@evelynrobinson3573 m&b isnt supposed to be a historical game my dude.
@@evelynrobinson3573 I’ve been working on a video for this for a while, most defenders will essentially argue immersion doesn’t matter. The problem is that bannerlord has POTENTIAL doesn’t matter that there aren’t any total conversion mods yet, they’re coming same with vanilla I guess. Oh wait game is “released” (ie our console launch happened so let’s pretend that we implemented all the features promised in 2016)
Bannerlord is fun, it’s just so incomplete and I’m tired of people shitting on its 15 year old predecessor
@@fyfaenihelvete I mean it kind of is. If you’re going to emulate real world cultures in a fictional setting, it would make sense to emulate stuff like this as well. The first game even had that. It’s kind of a tradeoff though.
For every rich trans person who has the money for cosmetic surgery, there are 1000 who look like CWC
The Dutch protocols also didn’t rely on the affirmation model. The sample group was limited to early onset (no late onset) and attempted to resolve dysphoria through lessor interventions prior to admittance to the sample group. This in no how the Dutch protocols are being administered in the United States. It’s 6 months of two criteria to be considered gender dysphoric and have any intervention short of transition eliminated by the affirmative model because even talking to someone about it is considered conversion therapy.
36:00 I disagree with Taftaj saying that Brianna is against the politicization of trans issues, they literally started the panel by saying "if you don't know what a woman is you shouldn't be here". Brianna is the epitome of "if you don't agree with me you're a bigot".
Gotta love how the one that claimed to be talking at an academic level on the topic was also the one that couldn't differentiate the difference between taking puberty blockers to push back natural puberty to a healthier age after premature onset, versus taking puberty blockers to effectively stop it entirely. Cherry picking data to present it in a way that only supports your point without considering the differences between what you're discussing and what that data actually represents is beneath the high school level they claimed to be above.
Notsoerudite is a hack
psychology is extremely polarizing and opinionated by nature, but every single one of them will tell you their conclusions are "scientific fact". in my experience it's like there are 50% of psych people who are brilliant and i could listen to them talk for hours, but the other 50% seem like complete morons with almost zero real justification for anything they think. sexology is even worse.
@@internethero83 Psychology can hardly be called a science. It deals with way too many conjectures and abstractions and you can't really prove anything with it.
@@noahfletcher3019 you got a mankini I can borrow? Party this weekend. Not sure if this is you or another Noah with same last name, but figured I may as well ask.
@@internethero83 there is a reason no one in the sciences respects the field ran by coke heads who think everyone wants to have relations with their parents
I think they should stop with the "testosterone makes people happier" talking point. I've heard destiny make similar statements.
Long term, exogenous testosterone use has effects that are not so happy, especially for females.
Anecdotal reports from steroid users will tell you that when they are cycling off testosterone or androgen steroid
They feel like shit, near suicidal idealisation.
I dont get why a mental disorder is being equal to a mood disorder
Apparently they think more heart attacks = "happier".
I can't even believe that this is a topic that kids should take these things to transition....I think this is a really bad idea.
I cant beleive that anyone of any age should be allowed to alter and surgically change their body. It is the biggest medical scam in all of modern history. It goes back decades. Just do research. There was a man in the 1950s who underwent such a transformation
The fact you seem mostly outraged with the minors going on puberty blockers is appalling.
Grownups and children are being used by big pharma to push the transgender craze. Wake up you fool
Why is it "appaling"
Obviously. These people are insane, there isn’t one single comprehensive study supporting their claims.
WPATH's latest Standards of Care highlighted "eunuch" as a gender identity. So much dubiousness (to put it mildly) around transition and gender self-ID is finally coming home to roost. Erudite hasn't noticed the shift yet and it's fascinating to watch her have to soften in real time a default of unqualified support for trans rights activism.
I think she's noticed, she's just doing the natural "progressive" response to opposition: double down and continue shoving their agenda down people's throats until they agree with you. As much as I hate it when the right tries to "own the libs", I also hate it when the left plays "own the fascists". In an attempt to be all-inclusive, they end up failing because they turn away people who could be allies.
WPATH also claims that dysphoria is not necessary to be trans and that it may be a lifestyle for some. Essentially, a so-called scientific body rejects any rigorous science
this guy knows how to play starcraft while listening to a trans issues discussion
no he doesn't he build mass mutas into a turtling thor + turret terran player lmfao
Even if giving a person chemo because they "think" they have cancer, would dramatically improve their "overall health" isn't a good reason to give them actual chemo. The medical drawbacks are too high and doesn't prevent that same person from abusing chemo later on. I think that generally applies to most drugs and especially drugs/supplements/ treatments meant to physically change your bodies chemical composition and growth.
Well it’s a fact of the matter debate on if it does help. And the argument is they don’t just think something, they have an incongruency with how their mind lines up with their sex.
@@hrothgr52 what is the fact of the matter? That gender affirming care is beneficial to trans kids or that gender affirming care is beneficial for people who self ID as having gender dysphoria?
@@MrNewVegas2281 that's not bolstering pixies or destiny's chemo hypothetical which is what my post was in response to. There is no drug or treatment that can be prescribed because someone has "supposed" symptoms or self id's has having the required checks in the box to fill a prescription. Gender affirming care shouldn't be any diffrent.
@@MrBulldog855 The first. You shouldn’t be taking drugs unless you actually are trans. Which should be evaluated by trained doctors I agree. Self id is cringe af.
@@hrothgr52 I agree but destiny's and pixies later hypothetical was about whether or not giving people who self ID but don't actually have gender dysphoria gender affirming treatment or people who are on the spectrum of trans but not far enough on the spectrum to require gender affirming treatment but are pressured into taking it, would be acceptable if it could potentially negate mental health side affects of not taking the hormone blockers. They later used chemo and people who think they have cancer as a hypothetical which is what my post was in response to.
i loved listening to this game, though i think there were people talking in the background
Best comment
It’s not a trans issue it’s an identity issue, an issue that’s related to individualism going so far off the rails ppl want community.
i think it’s an issue of collectivism, not individualism. they’re attempting to be apart of another group, not separate themselves from all groups
@@DavidJones-ot8qu good point
@@DavidJones-ot8qu that’s the issue ppl want to be part of collective groups. Individualism has gone that far it’s rebounding back to groups, be it trans, non binary, incel, red pill, x/y game only, like it’s a whole thing generally.
@@raquetdude i disagree, i think the desperation to be in a group has absolutely always existed, but the more groups that exist, the more diverse this will be obviously. the issue is that ppl what to not be separate, but instead of being connected individuals (which requires self assurance, awareness, and emotional security) they opt for the easier route of being connected by being apart of a group. the psychologist erich fromm has very interesting views on this
It's an issue of treating the mentally ill in this case "trans" people according to their delusion of being the opposite sex which goes back decades. Do research on how long they've been performing so called sex changes. There was a man in the 1950s who underwent such a transformation
“These people are genuinely evil”
🤣🤣🤣
She was very sad and that didn't even make everyone agree with her. What's even the use of pain if you cannot use it for immediate validation?
Trans Twitter and tiktok are a dumpster fire the debate. They don't have power, but they do have an effect: Dylan, Hershey, woman of the year, etc.
They don't have power? Tell that to Pikamee and other people who wanted to play Hogwarts Legacy.
About puberty blockers taken between ages between 13-mid twenties when many trans people complete their transition causing infertility I think looking at steroid users experiences with issues of infertility can be used as examples. The reason many men become infertile and never recover their natural hormone levels is because their testicular atrophy leads to permanent changes to the testicles. This leads to a life time of external hormone use and seems like it is comparable to stopping any growth when the genitals are supposed to.
Haven't there already been trans people who took leutenizing hormone or whatever to restart their testes to produce sperm to then have their own biological children? I'm almost positive I've read of a few of these
There's no such thing as "delaying" puberty. Puberty ends between ages of 16 and 25. If you have X years of puberty and you delay Y years, then you have X-Y years of puberty.
Another thing that is astounding is that there are no studies of blockers with control groups. When studying effects of every treatment subjects are divided into 2 groups: one that receives the treatment and one that doesn't, and then group averages are compared and efficacy is determined. There isn't even one study like this for blockers.
And yet another issue that studies on transition have an average follow up of 2 years. That's nothing. Of course first couple of years reports will tend to be positive. What is important is what happens 10-15 years down the line.
Untrue there's drugs like HCG that can stop atrophy and infertility for steroid using men
@@decentralizeddemocracy8335 true. Hormones r bad. They're groomers
@@Siikayy your reply got nuked. G word most likely. You can try adding Ukrainian keyboard and replace letters i, o, a, e, c with the same cyrillic letters. Used to work for me.
I need to know how the game against the Terran with ghosts and thors ended. The way it just abruptly cuts there is almost criminal.
he probably lost and that's why he ragequit and switched games.
most likely.
@@joediditde I NEED TO KNOW! Anny linkers?
There has to be people that, in a way, convince themselves they are trans or become trans for the attention and the nicer treatment on one group.
I really wonder how often therapist just agree with the client and won't question further due to fear of backlash.
There are trans trenders, but I'd imagine that as soon as they get into that hormone therapy they'll probably give it up. If they don't, then they're probably unironically so unwell that they'll believe anything is wrong with them.
They just become a trans trender enby who just wears weird clothes, so it's all good
Yeah, that's just NBs.
very often; it is also the case that many psych professionals are not desperate to actually help, but instead feel like a savior by means of “yes man”-ing people into whatever makes them temporarily satisfied. take it from someone who is in a psych grad program lmao
Half the femdom porn is convincing dudes to be women
Brianna Wu grew up in a red state (Mississippi) and ran for office in Massachusetts? Wow. I didn't know that. You're telling me now for the first time
Recidivism being compared to acute suicidality is one of the most outlandish and speculative correlations I have ever heard anyone make. I don't care how smart Erudite is, that is completely asinine.
Edit: This comment section is full of very astute observations concerning the limitation of the studies and theories that were postulated in this discussion (which I enjoyed). As a new-ish psychiatrist, I have to say I am impressed with the thinking processes undertaken by many of you.
Yeah, she's not really so great.
Agreed, & acute suicidality is very problematic as a data point, anyway. The confounding factors in these studies in trans teens make them virtually useless. I will tell you that I work in clinical research & in our phase I volunteer units (where studies are conducted on healthy volunteers) we’ve recently had to make a new data field in our EDC (data capture form) called “self-reported gender” because roughly 6% of females were checking “male” and of course that was causing errors & distortion if we enrolled them in a study. Clearly, this wasn’t a problem we had a few years ago. Interestingly, this hasn’t been an issue with male patients, as they’re percentage maintained (about 0.5%) and they almost never selected female back when there was only 1 field for gender/ sex. So there’s a new cohort of females identifying as male, for sure
@@scarletsletter4466that would be social contagion at play. It's very rare for a person to be truly trans. And yet there are groups of friends, almost exclusively female, where the whole friend group identifies as trans which is near statistically impossible.
@@scarletsletter4466 I agree in this context that acute suicidality as well as many other metrics of distress are hard to tease apart from an evidence-based perspective. The quagmire of clinical research in trans/non-binary patients is a minefield of difficult controls and shoddy correlations. It is gonna take a great deal of time and sufficiently clever researchers to make clear distinctions which relationships can be inferred and which ones cannot. I do not envy your job and we need bright people to help clear up some of the postulations that are being made by those on all sides.
"What do you do when it's a mother watching a child starve themselves for 7 years because she cant get help?"
"Just Move" - Destiny (probably)
"we have to make sure kids have access to gender clinics"
This vile bs needs to end and it needs to end now
They should have access, but it should also be a LAST RESORT and not the first thing people go to. Its a thing tried only after other options fail.
@Ryan Showalter the thing is there are people who believe they must be blind. Should we allow kids to blind themselves. There are people who are tattoo addicts should we allow kids to get tattoo.
Why?
@@hemmydall there is no resort for a child to falsely change their sex. putting a plastic bag over your face doesnt actually make you cute. in fact it makes you look more of an idiot
@@demonvictim That is such a rare situation, and usually has other underlying conditions that agitate it, plus its also almost never found in kids. Also, making them blind wouldn't solve the condition; that's a horrible comparison. Meanwhile studies show improvement in people genuinely suffering from some sort of gender dysmorphia once they get hormone treatments.
Seeing a psychiatrist and trying step by step solutions should be a first approach, and works on a majority of cases. The same studies about the hormone treatments show improvement simply by seeing a doctor.
As for the tattoo addiction, its an addiction, and feeding the addiction never helps. What kind of dumb argument is that? Unless you are implying these kids are addicted to something, in which case my point of seeking psychiatric help still applies.
The idea that children can't consent to p permanently altering their body in a sexual nature is strange to these people? And y'all winner why you get called groomers? Ya don't have to agree with conservatives to understand consent with kids
Your summary of conservatives having 0 compassion is totally wrong.
Uncritical affirmation is problematic.
Don't worry the scientific community are doing it. There was debates about long ago. Now we have random civil and breadtubers debates on RUclips too.
The trans suicide argument makes me a little bitter. Being a veteran seeing suicide rates for veterans 22-24 people a day 18-64 years old in 2022. The government has done ineffective policies to change this problem for decades. To hear people say “trans people are the most affected by suicide” is laughable. I love trans people but this battle to get government policy get standardized treatment for mental health is still be fought for veterans. Civilians get in line! 🫡
the trans movement moved too fast, now they are realizing in their haste they made mistakes or left loopholes that could be exploited. The problem is that the entire movement needs to reexamined from the beginning and they can't defend any of the ground they have taken.
I'm surprised Erudite is so hard on the policy stance. She admitted they don't have quite enough data but is like fk it, make it a law now because I feel it will be OK. That's not the stance I'd expect of a researcher so maybe she's got some personal bias that's pushed her off being rational. Destiny has the best stance of it might be true but we need more data before we make laws and in the absence of data you should default to the norm.
Yeah, a few months/year ago they were citing all these studies as if the science was settled.
@@Idle1996 it’s unfortunate that he’s right, but he is. she is an undergrad student that felt the power/influence of having a degree and access to a large fan base, and now powertrips on nonsensical points constantly with the guise of being well-researched, even though i’d suggest her interpretations often fall short of the most basic level of critical thought you’d expect from someone with her work experience
What? Can you point me to the time in the video where she proposes any laws?
@@UnlimitedAuthority ok literal Andy. She never says laws, she says policies and standards. Aka things that are applied with laws and have legal punishments for violating. Which is wild unless you have lefty brainrot about how nothing radical left is bad. It's not surprising that someone with your name would favor authoritarian rule without sound evidence.
@@wvance0316 "It's not surprising that someone with your name would favor authoritarian rule without sound evidence."
Thank you for not describing that as "ironic"
While there hasn't been a lot of studies on this, I can't remember the exact number I think is like 12 or 13, desistance rates among minors is really high. Even the most recent study on this published in 2021 showed 51% of minors desisting and only 37% persisting, 12% the study lost contact with and were not able to follow up with. This was when there was no affirmative treatment. When affirmative treatment was given, even just social transitioning, persistent rates increased significantly the greater the treatment the greater the increase in the rate of persistence. While this is a single study that looked at changes in desistance rates from administration of affirmation treatment so the amount of data is crap. Desistance rates for minors has been studied since the 1960s and they have all found a major desist after puberty. If we are going to look at studies with limited and crappy data and say HRT and puberty blockers helps trans kids mental health I think we also have to accept limited and crappy data and say treatment for minors means we are going to give kids that would have desisted a life long struggle with gender dysphoria and all the studies we do have say that the number we are going to give a life long struggle to are going to be more than the number of kids that need the treatment.
So to the compassionate individuals who empathize with the pain and struggles of trans individuals, would you condemn 1 or 2 cis individuals to become permanently transgender and suffer all that pain and suffering for a lifetime just to treat one transgender individual a few years earlier? If so, how is it ethical to cause a majority number of people life long pain to prevent anywhere from 6 to 13 years of pain for a minority of people?
good faith question: has anyone done a study into why "genuine" gender dysphoria is so prevalent now? as opposed to 100 years ago? and if suicidal ideations are so high without treatment, is there any data of suicidal ideations related to gender dysphoria before sex change treatments were an option?
Then erudite saying that "just because we are biting the bullet doesn't mean we lose!" What she means to say is "the cost probably doesn't out weight the benefit in the eyes of most people who hear this shit. This entire trans debate is predicated on the idea that conservatives don't want what is best for these people as individuals. What you need to try to do is stop saying this is right and you are wrong. Instead, tell us why your way is better than letting the kids sort it out themselves when they are adults. Yes, it sucks, but the alternative you are presenting seems to be allowing confused ass preteens to chemically mutilate their bodies and the benefits for trans people do not out weight the risks in most people's eyes. You keep saying we don't understand but we do understand what you are saying and what you are saying is fucking insane because you have not told me how you intend on filtering out confused cis kids. until you sell this in such a way that we can minimize the risk of that specific harm you will never sell it. Considering how all the reasonable trans activists gloss over this point and the crazies shout down anyone who disagrees with self ID no one will trust you people.
Should we prescribe T if it shows positive effects for other mood disorders is not a question that can be answered without being clear about the adverse side effects compared to other remedies. It’s a careless question otherwise. Say T is 10% more effective than talk therapy at curing depression, but also leaves you infertile and shortens your life span by 20 years?
Already. Less than a minute in and we have people laughing at the perfectly reasonable question of should we give puberty blocked to children? The effects are irreversible. And the counter claim is "well they are fine for kids with early onset puberty." Yes I imagine they are fine for early onset puberty because that is what they are intended to fix. My issue is whether it is fine to give it to an otherwise healthy child with a regular puberty essentially stunting their physical development during a very important stage. A stage of development during which the child is very confused and not really in a state to make permanent life altering decisions. Why the fuck can't these jokers take this question seriously?
I wonder if Destiny is aware of the huge cross section of purr narcissists he ends up conversing with (including self admittedly himself). This goes the same for F&F. People purely by choosing to be on camera on his stream, by definition are in like the top 10-20% of narcissistic people. Likely why he ends up with crazies. Likely why Destiny himself can be a bit self centered, have difficulty seeing persepctives outside his own without gaslighting others, and other telltale signs. I recall some quote by Peterson about how people who are completely not narcissitic shut down or balance out narcissists. But by definition he needs to reach out and find those people... essentially its important for him to reach out to people who disagree but have no desire to talk on his stream.
man literally a minute into it and theres already a guy getting barated by the most annoying voice ive ever heard for doubtfully stating a metric, truly a trans debate
*person tearing up and trauma dumping*
destiny: "How the fuck do i deal with this?" while losing in starcraft
A major part of why the research is so messy is because in science for things to be ironclad results have to be repeatable to provide consensus if you're citing studies that cannot be repeated by the scientific community you are just doing highbrow posturing.
44:50 that is why they use double blind studies to weed out placebo effect. You would never give them the chemo or testosterone in the first place you would give them the sugar pill version of both and then see what the reaction would be.
58:15 Think the only problem with that is, that you also want to force people from the outside to act that they believe that those people have the fake cancer. Think that's the biggest issue with the trans debate,that people try to force the other side to belive in their rethoric and use shame tactics if they don't, think otherwise no one would care as much.
I really wish that I could talk to you. I'm a conservative, and I was raised by two gay Dads and a single Mom, all of them conservatives, and I truly do care for trans people and trans issues, and wish that not all conservatives would be painted with a brush of ignorance. I believe that these people are God's children as well, and should be treated with love and respect. I think that if the age of consent is sixteen in some parts of the states, then sixteen year olds should be able to make that choice if they want to transition, to save them from a rough puberty. But I also believe that the screening process should be a little more rigorous.
We love you, Destiny.
Love from Missouri and God Bless.
Queers shouldn't be raising kids.
This! All of this!!!
My sibling is bisexual, and right-leaning.
Half of my family are left-leaning. The other half is more right-leaning.
The only people I hate are those who act in bad faith and genuine criminals.
Then I see people saying “all republicans/conservatives are NAZIs/Fascists” and, on the other side, “all liberals are Socialists/Communists”!
Things aren’t black or white! You can’t just make broad generalizations about what a certain group of people believe, because that’s exactly what many people in the past often did, and look where it lead them!
The worst genocides and oppressive practices often came out of the people who generalized and lumped people into groups the most!
It’s just so frustrating that people like you and I talk about this so much, and it feels like shouting into a brick wall.
I guess that’s just the internet, though, unfortunately . . .
Its a problem that people do the brush stroking of conservatives. The big issue is that many of the conservative politicians today are openly anti-trans, and many red states are trying to pass laws against trans people. Yet they consistently keep getting elected by their base, despite the majority of the base itself disagreeing with the policies they are currently pushing.
Until the base stops voting these extreme conservatives in, they will get some of the blame for their representatives' actions.
what are you conserving man? gay sex?
Translation: "I'm a fake Conservative that thinks bodily mutilation is fine as long the person is of age and I'm fine with an increasing number of mentally ill people refusing to deal with their REAL mental problems, living in a fantasy, and advocating for the destruction of women's sex based rights. I fully accept the insane premise that puberty is a problem that needs to be solved and not natural human development necessary for proper function and growth. PLEASE BLUE HAIRED LIBERAL MAN WITH A GIRLS NAME, LOVE ME!"
It would be great if somebody could link the studies talked about in the debate, it would be great
erudite lost me on this one
Can we please remember that Destiny is a Steven's name?
Refreshing talk without any screaming for once
I'm reading these comments and I don't see enough conversation about how idiotic it is to double down on mass muta when you see a terran build a bunch of thors
If these children aren't old enough to choose what they want to do with their lives because they're adult brains aren't fully mature enough yet to comprehend the choices they are making or certain repercussions. And then you have other things, such as drinking, driving, voting, getting a job, then I don't see how they are able to make this massive life-changing decision that they may or may not regret such as puberty blockers and or gender reassignment surgery before they are of age.
That's what many of us have been saying. The problem is that we only hear from conservative groups and not progressive and liberals. I'm a progressive but I don't agree with letting kids have this choice.
As a conservative, I found this conversation enlightening,n probably having made me somewhat more openminded. In fact, I think they addressed all my concerns
I don't believe you
As also a conservative…how lmao
Why was the suicide rate so much lower in the past when trans issues were completely disregarded and not accepted at all in society?
More clinical trials and experimenting is exactly what needs to happen 100%. Making policy this early in the trans question is so dumb for both pro and anti trans people.
No, we do not need to "experiment" anymore. No one is "born in the wrong body". That's not a thing. These people are mentally ill. There's nothing physically wrong them.
@@ng38477 We treat mentally ill people with therapy, prescription drugs, and lifestyle changes. HRT is just another treatment option, but it needs more testing to be a viable option for people with gender dysphoria. I'm not a big fan of the current trans movement but denying people an opportunity to alleviate their suffering is WRONG. I have MDD, therapy, antidepressants, and even being at my most fit did not give any meaningful improvement to my condition. If Ketamine treatments or what Erudite suggested Psilocybin were more accessible, I would jump on that opportunity IMMEDIATELY. It doesn't make sense to limit a person's treatment options.
@@NarskiiYT They are quite good at weaponizing language to brainwash people. You are a good example. Not today Satan. No, we give them THE CORRECT DRUGS. Not hormones. If you have problem with hormones, guess what you get? Hormones. They don't have a hormone problem. There is nothing wrong with their bodies. It's a mental problem. All of this you know. This is NOT HRT. There are not "replacing" anything. They are getting WRONG levels of hormones to mold their bodies into the opposite sex. They want the sex based characteristics of the opposite sex. This you know. NO, we don't "more testing". Why do we need more "testing"? We need to continue to "test" the completely the irrational treatment of people with delusions? You all need stopping acting like can't think logically. It's pure emotion. I don't need to give anyone the opportunity to live a lie, be a nuisance, and ignore their REAL problems. The problem is the mind. Not the body. Your situation is NOT the same. Are you gonna start guzzling cross-sex hormones for your depression? NO, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. It's the same situation but you all so emotional and irrational. Are you guys gonna start advocating for "life-saving" liposuction for Anorexics next? Call it "Weight-Affirming Care".
29:06
Now, THAT'S saying the quiet part out loud. The trans conversation has drifted so far from serious medical realities to young, whiny females claiming these pseudo trans identities arbitrarily because they can't cope with simply being allys to trans issues and they have no sense of identity.
I know that's harsh, but it's true and it's, in my opinion, one of the biggest problems for anything serious revolving around trans issues.
destiny really fell off without nick. he used to be kinda cool, now he’s just straight up gay.
The problem is Parents taking advice from children. Its insane.
Taking all these pills and testing. Clinical bullshit is not worth it
Men and women. Gay or straight. Sex Anyway you desire. Just stop all the madness.
For someone named Erudite she sure seems to act ignorant of things that seem quite logical.
Because logic means socially acceptable then it's not logical especially if you have evidence to contrary of it.
Her name is NotSoErudite though....
What do you think she says that is illogical?
Imagine thinking NSE is ever the irrational one
@@haydens5321 she’s often irrational. she uses data that has various confounds, but without the capacity to assess the confounds. for example, suicide attempts are not the same as suicide; not even in the slightest. statistics on happiness improving is another one; let’s say your happiness improves because u have a more reinforced ability to neglect deep-seated insecurities, but now ur less likely to ever be able to deal with them, is this really a positive ? she seems incapable of dealing with any of this
I love Destiny but he's gonna get himself banned again talking about trans issues
wait till he speaks about Muslims
It's very unlikely he'll be banned on RUclips for this stuff.
so my question is, how do these selected people get selected for these studies.
How do they know that these selected people don't have any other psychological morbidities? To me this sounds like a survey because to my knowledge there is no medical diagnosis for this issue...
Or am I outdated on this one?
Can we talk about over representation of high ACE scores amongst LGBTQ and the possibility that abusive/neglectful environments could be fostering conditions that promote gender dysphoria?
I've come to the conclusion that this is the second attempt of eugenics where the last cultural shift to eugenics started around the 1920s and ended after ww2. Those most likely to fall into this trap are typically those on the socially awkward side and don't fit nicely in the box or the parent(s) are mauchosen by proxy which in either case ends with a sterile population of people that don't understand what they are doing.
What is an ACE score?
@@CrimzFN adverse childhood experience
@@CrimzFN as Sonny mentioned its a metric for measuring adverse childhood experiences using a score of 0-10.
High scores are correlated with higher likelihood of poor outcomes such as developing physical and mental ailments.
What about they have both?
if people talk about stats in academic papers, they should know what the terms mean. p-value is not the probability of a hypothesis being true or false.
I hope someone like NotSoErudite tries to raise awareness of this, because it is absolutely crucial that these public figures have an understanding of how to interpret inferential stats if they want to even approach the results sections of these studies.
@@eilrahc567 Inferential statistics are not intuitive, especially Null Hypothesis Significance Testing (NHST), which is what the majority of social sciences use. This is why "science journalists" should be a proper and recognised profession. As often you see debates like this where what is said is wrong, but it doesn't get picked up at all.
Gender dysphoria is a psychopathology, whereas precocious puberty is a congenital endocrine disorder. Trans youth have a laundry list of comorbidities such as PTSD, OCD, narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder and autism spectrum disorder. We should be treating comorbidities and then assessing for the dysphoric symptoms and see if they persist even after treating the comorbidities.
These people don't know much of anything about mental health/psychopathologies.
"Transwomen" or males are going to have increased rates of SI and SI gestures due to their comorbidity of NPD/BPD. Testosterone is activating and can have an antidepressant affect but, it's temporary.
@@MrNewVegas2281 doing shit like this makes it seem like u don’t have any actual argument to stand on; i know it’s hard to see it from ur perspective, but that’s how it comes off to those not already bought into ur ideology
@@MrNewVegas2281 so called “Trans women” are men, but saying that can be bad for their mental health so keep it on the DL.
yet they think they are speaking at ''academic level'' actually fucking pathetic
@Johnny Guitar transwomen are another category of male. That's not a deeply held opinion. That's just a reality. If we're going to say that gender is a social construct but sex is biological then I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that.
Im here for the StarCraft game play :)
Came for the starcraft, left as a woman.
@@jakeroper1096😂
That person saying "It must feel bad to be talking at a high school level while we're talking at an academic level", man idk who that is but I hate him and I assume everything he's saying is wrong just on principle.
13:24:
Erudite: We have information about A
Taftaj: No, we don't
E: Yes, we do
T: No, we don't
E: Yes, we do
its so unethical to ask people to participate in your experiments and its inhumane.
“Chill, I’m not ready” means chill, I’m not ready… so disappointed… if a man told you no, do you contemplate with yourself wether that means yes ?!
57:04 which is why if you have any anxiety disorder, they give you antidepressants and only if you have panic attack disorders you can access benzos. I would know, I’m on anti depressants since I was 14 because I have tons of anxiety disorders and severe general anxiety disorder. Benzos are used when you’re panicking cause your body will get used to them and get addicted.
really? I just told my GP that i had anxiety and he gave me a .25 mg xanax script. This was probably about 15 years ago though so im sure its changed with the opiod epidemic
I don't think you're giving a fair side for conservatives, conservatives in general do care about the people who are trans, but they just view transgenderism as a completely faulty ideology, which is why they will reject it even after it's proven that medically transitioning works. That doesn't make them monsters, and that doesn't mean they "don't care about transgender people", it just means that they value (most likely for religious reasons as well as a visceral reaction to anything which is part of the sexual liberation movement) rejecting transgenderism over those transgender peoples experiences
Considering that conservatives who are this strongly anti-trans are usually jacking off to trans porn, no it's not a genuine concern.
i also think saying “transiting works” is a stretch. let’s enter a world where ppl aren’t trans as we view it, but instead transition as an attempt to distance themselves from who they actually are as a broader attempt to run from deep-seated insecurities; transitioning and having ppl acknowledge this transition would still likely make these folks “happier,” but i would argue, ultimately, that would hinder them from ever actually being content. instead, they just get to be deluded and emotionally underdeveloped forever, which i think most folks would report makes them happier
That's like saying "conservatives don't hate the gays! We just think we can save them from their inner evil and put them back on the path towards righteousness, and we're going to do that by whatever means necessary."
Wu bringing up running for office always makes me think of Shapiro bringing up his doctor wife
Does Destiny know about Red Alert games? Especially Red Alert 3? Would be nice to see him try playing those RTS games.
Yesssss.
"conservative don't care about them or have compassion for them at all"
To be frank that take is just incorrect.
why doesn't destiny get like 5x long range air guys and win?
is erudite unhinged or just disagreeable for content
Both
@@Benbones99 my Ghanaian brother.
Are you content poisoned? This was a reasonable conversation. She is listening and taking on board opposing points.
Are you sure that you aren't the unreasonable one?
@@gregmumbai333 cope seethe mald rent free
@@jobinFOG haha, mate not everyone takes this shit as seriously as you do.
part of this discussion suggests to me that we are trying to create an ‘ideal’ human condition, such in the case of early or late development when chemicals are dispensed to ‘correct’ an ‘abnormal’ situation … what is ‘ideal’? whose place is it to define what should be the ‘norm’? and are we justified in forcing an ‘ideal’ onto others, especially if the person either cannot consent and/or doesn’t fully understand the consequences of these therapies? and does this form an uncomfortable bridge into genetic therapy either prior to conception or in utero? one could call such genetic alterations eugenics, which is a concept we’ve worked hard to disavow and make obsolete. and now some want to bring it back, in a similar way as segregation and racism being used in the struggle against bigotry - it becomes hypocritical at some point, and people don’t see the irony.
I'm just going to stick with the Taoist interpretation on this whole topic. Many people have lost their sense of identity because they have become overly focused on external factors such as their roles, labels, and possessions. True identity is not something that can be found by searching for it, but rather by letting go of the search and being present in the moment, quieting the mind, and letting go of our thoughts and beliefs about ourselves. By doing so, we can access a deeper level of understanding and connection with ourselves and the world, and live a more authentic and fulfilling life.
I'm sure I'll get hate from pro-trans people from this take, but I don't really care what random strangers on the internet want to say about my beliefs. It appears to me that foundational to the belief that being trans, that you MUST believe in what is effectively a soul, or that you are a little being locked up in a bag of skin that you never chose. People en masse have bought into the idea that we are somehow separate in a real sense from the universe, "A stranger and afraid in a world we never made". Which essentially leads me to the conclusion that these people are just confusing the world as it is with the world how it is described, talked about, and figured about.
You wrote an essay just to say “I think trans people are confused”
@@natestevens8951 To be fair it's not just trans people that this refers to, but in order to hold a belief in being transgender you necessarily must believe that you are something different from your body (not necessarily the case with transsexuals). This belief is also shared by other people religious and otherwise.
But yes, I could have just written "people are confused" without justifying or explaining the stance any further and just let people make their own assumptions off my beliefs rather than explain it.
The issue is that teen rates of self harm are skyrocketing at the same time we are adopting all these new ideas about gender identity that are supposedly meant to alleviate this issue for some number of kids.
We are pulling the rug out on a foundational part of identity, to a certain degree. Being a boy/girl is something the vast majority of human beings for the entirety of history has been able to establish at an extremely young age. To present a fluidity to something that foundational for kids at a time when identity is somewhat precarious anyway risks damaging more children than actually benefit.
It’s a matter of being concerned about more than just the ones you’re trying to help. Kids are impressionable and vulnerable by their nature. That goes for all kids. And it’s fair to question why issues of self harm have increased dramatically at the same time we have adopted some of these seemingly radical identity concepts. That doesn’t mean they’re necessarily correlated, but it’s not unfair to be concerned.
They are willing to throw the majority and "normal" people under the bus for the outliers. Studies have shown 90% of boys that doubt their gender as kids simply grow out if it by the time they become adults. Yet now we want to have those boys question their gender and affirm their doubts.
PS: most of these boys end up simply being gay.
Self harm is also skyrocketing in non trans teens, no?
Or do you think transness is affecting teens whether or not they are trans, making them unhappy?
There are not enough trans kids to lower the amount of self harm by a huge amount. Your concept doesn't make sense
@@YoungGzBlitz It may also have to do with the fact that over the past years people have been told "white men are bad", then "all men are bad", then "white women arn't as oppressed as black women" and so on, the suicide rates are these ideas put onto teens in school (a very emotionaly difficult time for everyone) being told they're bad for society
@@YoungGzBlitz it’s more the breaking down of identity in general that I find concerning. Up until very recently, forming an identity was easy. Think about it.
You are born. You’re a boy. You belong to a family from a place. You probably have a religion and culture. So now, for instance, you are an Italian boy from New York from an Italian family who is also Catholic. You have all this foundation for which to build the rest of yourself on top of.
Now you might say that was too restrictive. It didn’t work for many people. But you’d have to admit, it was good for most people. Restrictions aren’t always bad. Guardrails are restrictive, but they keep you from going off a cliff sometimes.
My concern is that as we strip away all the guardrails, a lot of young people are getting lost and going off cliffs. Not just Trans people, but everybody. Families are all screwed up. Communities are broken. You might not even be confident you’re a boy/girl. It’s not a recipe for happiness.
If the outspoken pro trans community would take the nuanced approach that Taftaj has there would not be this extreme blow back.
I think the vast majority of adults agree that there needs to be better care available, including talk therapy, hormone therapy with careful monitoring, and improvement to surgical interventions.
The person that spoke about their experience as a young person that said hormone therapy solved their problems was very easy to feel bad for. The problem is if every kid that anyone thinks may be trans is just given hormone therapy the majority of those people will grow out of it and many will have changes to their bodies that can't be reversed. The detrans men and women can also have extremely sad stories and higher suicide rates than the general population.
Most people don't agree with hormone therapy, also it isn't therapy, it's social experimentation.
Holy shit I've never heard so much boohooing in my life
My biggest disagreement with destiny is at the 54:00 mark when he says conservatives have no compassion, that is bullshit, they just are concerned about the kids and people who arent Trans but get told by Tik-Tok influencers and other ilk like them who just dogpile on them saying they are trans.
The people who dont have compassion are far right people like matt walsh who is an ass (and i am conservative) and far left people who care more about being “virtuous” then the mental health of others.
We need to stop acting like the other side is a monster just because they disagree. Most conservatives have an issue with this since we dont have long term studies that all point to the same conclusion and are repeatable, we have one off studies but we need more, its the same with the whole covid vaccine issue, i didn’t get it even though it was Trump who got the ball rolling because i dont trust the long term possible effects. The Flu vaccine wasn’t cleared for human use for nearly a hundred years because they wanted long term effect studies
Exactly. Last year the FDA reported that 6 girls experienced vision loss and swelling of the brain due to them taking puberty blockers. Swelling of the brain is extremely dangerous as it can cause permanent brain damage or brain death aka literal death. Not just that but the effects that puberty blockers have on the development of the teenage brain aren't known and we're being fed the lie that puberty blockers are fully reversible. Considering all of this it boggles my mind that some people think that kids that aren't even old enough to decide their bed time can meaningfully consent to take such drugs. I'm not a conservative, I'm a moderate leftist and I couldn't agree more with conservatives on this issue.
I wanted to upvote you, but I like Matt Walsh.
@@DoctorPhileasFragg i mean i agree with him but i feel like he is an ass, doesnt meant i hate or disagree with him
Which specific treatment should be used for a specific diagnosis should always be at the discretion of each individual patient and their doctors.
Imagine if people just randomly started piping up about wether an emergency colonoscopy is indicated for a lower GI bleed. It is a controversial issue with a lot at stake and affects way more people than gender dysphoria.
Of course nobody talks about it, which makes complete sense because wtf could the average person even contribute there? These things shouldn't be subject to political discussions.
And as long as young people don't start a trend of self-diagnosing themselves with a lower GI bleed and attempting to get themselves fast-tracked into emergency colonoscopies, it'll stay that way.
@@DoctorPhileasFragg How would that change anything? If young people diagnosed themselves with lower GI bleeds and both their doctors and parents agreed to an emergency colonoscopy that'd still be no one else's business.
@@iz2333 It would lead to more misdiagnoses, and history would rightfully regard it as a medical scandal.
@@iz2333then I guess it wasn’t just Self ID that validated it?
Basically kid claims they have something and I take a sample and get doctors and equipment and it comes back they *actually* had it. Then no duh give them treatment.
The problem people have is
Kid IDs as having this and we don’t do the testing or anything we just give them treatment.
Thats the problem people have and we should as pro Trans people make this clarity.
@@DoctorPhileasFraggdoctors? So lets say Doctors (DO THEIR JOB and confirm the child has the disease) and they agree because he/she actually has it.
Thats what Iz was saying.
18:00 think these front bases should have been mining for a while when you had map control so the terran cant just have fresh bases later
Erudite’s position here is actually kind of unhinged. First trying to argue that adding co-morbidities to a sample population would only increase the effect size of the treatment, like is incomprehensible that there might be some co-morbidities that could decrease the effect size or even reverse it. That was wild. Then saying we still should implement HRT as the standard of care, even though there’s minimal research showing only very small positive effects, because “well it points in that direction”. Exactly like with the co-morbidities, it’s entirely possible that more research might show that effect size disappear or even reverse to show negative outcomes. Then the appeal to emotion with “what about the kids struggling now”. First, that logic wouldn’t be applied for any other circumstance and she gave no reason why this should be a special exception. Second, if it turns out that HRT actually has negative long term effects then implementing it now would be worse for those same struggling kids. She acknowledges all the issues with her position when Destiny actually pushes even a bit, so it just seems like she has some cognitive dissonance on this issue.
August you’ve done it again, with the thumbnail. Genius
puberty blockers and kids being in the same conversation is just so gross. Keep kids out of this stuff you freaking weirdos.
Keep kids out of health care?
I mean it's a bit redundant to say we shouldn't talk about kids and puberty blockers. Who's puberty are you suggesting we block?
@@gregmumbai333 how about nobody? we know what this is being pushed for. It's not health care it's for this crazy trans agenda. If you try to push for puberty blockers in kids you're a gross pedo. Nothing more to it. Kids are dumb and influenced incredibly easily so keep these weirdos away from kids.