Thanks for the video man. During my last year of college I heavily shifted from illustration, into 3D via Blender, and a year after that I began self teaching myself coding to make games, once my 3D skills lead me to wonder if I could make a game. The path has been long, and I’ve evolved much as an artist and game developer, but I think I needed to hear this. I’ve been comparing myself to others lately and it was slowing me down. Like maybe I should be developing faster??!? But, in reality I have a FT job, and the best part is I haven’t stopped. I must learn to love the pain of growth.
Great video. But one correction is needed. When media makes a video/article/whatever about a kid in China who allegedly earned $50,000 PER DAY, making an Android game, or when a kid makes some other sum (while in fact it was his father) that's not because it "sounds glamorous". There's this old misconception that news outlets are chasing sensations. While in fact most of the times media is paid to create sensations out of nothing. In this example, let's say Google wants more games for their platform Android. Because that's the simplest way to attract more youngsters to Android, rather than competing iOS. They also want apps to be cheap (free) if possible. Because that also attract users, especially youngsters who never have money. Well, one approach is that Google pays developers to make games. But that's expensive. It's much easier to create an illusion among devs that it's easy to get rich making Android games. And that anyone can do it. Even some 12.y.o. from Nonamistan. And voila... hordes of dev start making tons of apps. Mostly crap, but quantity leads to competition, and competition leads to 2 things: 1. Greater number of quality games, since it's the only way to make some money. 2. Lower prices, mostly freemium or ad-supported, as that attracts more customers. And that's why the media rolls out those stories. If you could trace the money, you'd probably find out that Google paid the journalists (and anything passes as "journalist" these days) to push those stories about magical success. It's an old tactics known from the era of gold rush, where to inhabit a certain area, you just needed to spread a story that there's lots of gold there, you just need to dig a little bit and you're rich. It's the same old tactics of promotion (but actually, it's cheating).
I guess im asking randomly but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb lost the login password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me!
same here. And I will make that game by 2025 (2030 at the latest). But I'm not gonna use my own money because I'm very poor. I will just find a company that needs a proven to work type of game (the type I'm working on), and let them struggle with the making and marketing of the game. All I want is 10 million $$$ for myself after the game sells xD
I never even thought about money...I just wanted to make a game that I wanted to play...Money was never a factor for me when I decided to be a game dev
Same! I will never make a game that I myself wouldn't find fun, and I never expect to make any significant money off of them anyway. It's just fun to create stuff and cool to know it will exist for others to potential find enjoyment with it as well. That's a better reward in my opinion.
Tough words, but true words. As someone who at 39 years just started their game dev journey, this is sage advice. The part about enjoying the journey is something that I teach to my kids all the time. Life is about the process, respect it and work hard. Good luck to everyone grinding ;)
40 here, lets go boys! I loved this video, I see so much truth in this... Indie game dev is not an easy path follow, you really must put love in it, persistence and have a solid plan, even more to old guys like us...
Even the devs that have big hits usually have a ton of games before it that had very limited success in their catalogue. Consistency and never giving up is the only path to success, and even then it is not guaranteed. BTW what you are saying is true in almost every single creative endeavor.
"Dead men tell no tales" applies to almost anything. Learning from failure should be as relevant as learning from success in my opinion, but failure is something we usally run away from, like always. Great insights in only 20+min! Thanks!
RUclips suggested me your video. Apparently its algorithm was alarmed by my latest excitement about videogame development, ahaha Thank you for your video, luckily I was already in line with your perspective: what matters is the process of dev, and what you learn and experience through it.
when he said "if you pick up plastic bottles on the street... you'd probably come out on top", that hit close I'd say that if you want to make games, you need to have income elsewhere. Ultimately game developers are artists, and artists are know to starve
I respect people who do game dev after work, I remember as a student, I was thinkg about my game whole day at school, looking forward to work on it as soon as I come home, but when I came home I was exhausted, mentaly and physicaly. I made most of the work when I was sick at home.
Yup this happens to me everytime. Luckily I got a lot of the crappy stuff done with so its pretty fun to work on it now. Full release coming out end of december.
My fiance and I started our own little studio to start making games months before the Pandemic started. It has been a dream of mine since I was a kid. I had one project I worked alone on for years before I finally started learning more about Game Development. So, finally after a ton of work(Free) I am almost ready for a demo to be made, but I grew tired of my project and needed a break from it, so my fiance pitched a idea to me for a smaller game we could make together while on break from my other project. We started work on it the very next day, worked around the clock for months in order to get a fully working demo. We are now about to do an early version of it for sale soon, it will be our very first game that either of us has ever worked on. We are excited about the product we made because it is special to Us, and she came up with the idea. I hope we will make some money eventually, but it will never beat the feeling of Creation. I, personally feel paid when someone sees what we have accomplished(Being 2 noobs) and says Good Job! Greatest feeling ever! Great video that is so truthful! Thanks.
All true. I think some of the misconception may also come from the fact that in many ways game dev looks a lot like general software dev. It's really important to remember that as a game dev, even though you're using a pc instead of a musical instrument or brushes, you're still an artist and are attempting to enter the entertainment industry. And the financial and job security levels are comparable.
really no. If you are savvy in programing as c# or even better c++, or in animation side in python as Technical animator and rigger you can find ok job in the industry and use opportunity to also learn earn money and work.
@@tomislavtomic7184 well, if you want to work solely as a programmer or generally as a technical specialist, this certainly is true. but, if you really are chasing the proverbial dragon of being a solo/indie gamedev then you really are knee deep in the creative field.
Crazy how quickly a dream can turn into delusion. I needed this too, I wasn't expecting to get rich or anything, but I also needed to realize that my games aren't that special, my skills aren't that great. My skills and ideas have SO much room to grow, and that's honestly exciting.
@@synthemagician4686 Even if your skills were the best, your product would most likely drown in a ocean of games. What most people ignore is the importance of marketing. That's even more important than the quality of your games.
be careful, it's about balance. if you are the type to be over confident than what you are doing is good. if you are the opposite though, you are certainly shooting yourself in the foot
Pay him no mind. Working for someone you are guaranteed 40k - 120k per year. Releasing multiple games with you and a few developers is where the big money is at though
Being able to tell whether your project will be a success or not is a skill in itself. Knowing what excites people is a very powerful advantage. Most people are not successful because they don't take the time to tap in to what makes something appealing. If you hit a certain level of quality, aesthetic, game feel, marketing etc. then you can safely bet your game will AT LEAST break even. It takes years of studying the successes and failures of others and yourself to be able to determine whether something will draw people in or get washed into obscurity.
Funny thing is even back when I was a kid, I thought games were masterpieces that combined so many things I love, i.e technology, art and story telling. I tried to make games as soon as I got my own computer, I downloaded a game engine called 3d rad and I started to mess around with it. Although the engine came with several assets that you could use to make a functioning game without ever needing to make your own scripts, I realized that I had to learn a lot before I could start making anything worthwhile. It kind of discouraged me because I was young and thought it would be so easy. Fast forward a couple of years, with a couple of years of self taught programming under my belt, I decided to give it a go again. You and a couple of other RUclipsrs have helped me take what I learned and start applying it, helping make my silly childhood dream come true. Just the fact that I can now think of something right now and make it into a game would have blown my kid mind and still does blow my mind to this day. Thank you for helping me get here, man.
Better not fail, I'm a backer 😉 Seriously though, Dwerve is great so far, and I have full faith in it being a great game, so hopefully it finds critical and commercial success once it's complete!
I've been following for a while and I think it looks really fun. I can tell it must have been a massive amount of work and I'm sure it will work out great! I promise I'll buy it when I have the money spare :)
Game development is the most taxing experience I've felt as a programmer. Not only do you need to code, you need to do every aspect of a game. Areas that the traditional developer would not have experience in great lengths.
You need a healthy "hope for the best but expect the worst" attitude when making indie games. Don't bank your financial situation on optimistic sales projections, especially if it's your first release.
4 года назад+12
AAA studios fail there with all the advantages at times. So no matter how many don't bank.
Yep. A few very lucky developers "break through" and some can even retire on what they sold at first. These people are VERY, VERY LUCKY. Sometimes what they made isn't even some super high quality thing. Right place, right time, got picked up by the right streamer, etc. The first commercial game I made did quite poorly. Got bad reviews. In total, sales were less than what I spent (around $2,000). And that's on Steam. That was years ago though. I'm looking to do a No Man's Sky style turnaround on that in addition to the new projects I'm working on being of much higher quality. I'm gonna keep plugging away.
Really if you don't have any experience making games, your first game might not be the greatest. You can't go on a 10 mile bike ride if you don't know how to ride a bike.
I am one of those people who worked 3 years on one game and sold 20 Copys on release day lol. The ones who bought it, liked it most of the time, but nobody knows that this game exist. Even when I tried to market it well and write many many emails and stuff like this. I loved to make this game, but man it was a tough road with couple of mental issues durring the whole process deving the hell out of it by my own. Indie devs have only a couple of chances: 1. Your game is truly brilliant, the idea is new and speaks to a huge audience 2. You got very good connections to big media influencer 3. You have won a lottery ticket (which is like actually playing the lottery)
I just took a look at your game. I don't say this to be harsh, but it looks extremely bland. If that's you taking your best shot, no lottery ticket is gonna save you.
If you release a game, you usually only have a chance in the month you release. That's where you sell most of your copies. Even if many people download and play your game, they'll quickly move on to the next thing. Everyday tens of thousands of games, most of it trash, is released. So your game will most likely just drown in a sea of mediocrity. It's like Google searches, people only click on the first few links they see, at most they'll go to the second page. That's why marketing has become more important than ever. You have to push your game to the front page for people to see it, otherwise they won't. Also, you need to worry about the competition and trolls and haters. If they see your game first, they'll downvote it and if your first rating is 1 star, then nobody else will want to touch it. Many successful people become successful by buying their first 1000 or so likes. Only after reaching a certain threshold can you expect a snowballing effect.
@@futuregamer25 yeah but he is right.... I only watched the two trailers but just can't see a reason to even try it out. There is now world (implizit/explizit) or Story which would suck me in. Instead it appears to be a collection of gamesystems that just don't add up to a complete whole thing.
@@MrDasfried That’s just how indie games work. No matter how great they are, you aren’t going to enjoy most of them, because they target their individual niches. Just because you wouldn’t personally enjoy something doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just not tailored to your tastes.
Thank you very much for making this video. I'm well into my first full-scale game. I am also a full-time computer Network Engineer as my "day-job". There is this fantasy I have of being Team Cherry, or Yacht Club, but ultimately my goal is to make a great game; it has ZERO to do with money. When I play truly great games, I think to myself "I wish I could make that", but that motivation is 100% because I would love to be responsible for providing other people that lovely feeling that I get when I finish a great game and say to myself "that was amazing". Maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't, but it will NEVER be motivated by mone. Thanks again for the video and for your tutorials, some of which I've used while making my games.
4 года назад
You forgot to scare them off early with the word math, 3d math becomes tons of fun with surface normals (or worse physics) and everything else in play. I mean, about 3 years of daily work and I've almost covered the beginning of every field lol. Unreal/Multiplayer and modeling, tons of work just to get started. But yeah marketing is so huge, and ideas are a dime a dozen. Glad I enjoy it tbh. Though not my work field. And it's worse than no return as you'll likely buy assets and courses.
750 dollars profit in 4 years on Steam overall? Your presenting this a bit dramatically, gamedevelopment is just like starting any other business. It has the same risks and same potentials, nothing more :)
I love you analogy of the suitcase in the garbage bin. I entered GameDev 3 months ago with the simple goal of building a like-minded community and sharing my experience in learning GameDev from scratch to help inspire anyone that was passionate about games to give it a shot. I just hit 300 subscribers within a couple of weeks and I feel like having 300 people to share knowledge with and support me during development is more valuable than 300 sales of a finished product. Thanks for the video, it's great advice that applies to every single creative industry.
Some things in life come down to luck. People preach hard work and passion, but people don’t talk about luck. Life is unpredictable.... good luck everybody.
@@ganimol9691 its not luck just because he said it lol flappy bird was different. Challenging, but simple. Its never luck. Just like the first tree. If it wasnt for advertising and GIFs it would have never become what it was. Even the dev said that. Luck is about as stupid as life being based on evolution. Let me just end the convo with that. Respect. Have a good one.
Damn. Great work, again. I spent the last 12 years working (with reasonable success) in theatre as a writer, and the experience parallels. Keep doing what you do
I’ve been wanting to make a game for half of my life. I recently got serious and started my first project. Thank you so much for this video. I had already decided to make my game free to avoid that “making money” mindset and view it as a passion project on my bucket list, to learn and challenge myself. I wish you success, but more importantly, happiness and enjoyment in your journey.
Thank you very much for this video, I needed it. Since last year I was wondering why I left my game projects pending. You made me realize that, I was doing this for the wrong reason. For some "easy money", but it was devoid of fun... So I never finished it... And because I was pushing myself so hard to do this small, quick money projects first, I actually never worked on the one actually care about, yet bigger, but that makes me feel like Time doesn't exist anymore, that wakes me in the middle of the night because I have an idea or find resolved something. Your video made me remember why I've always wanted to be a Game Dev and that's not for the treasure chest. Having found my path again, I shall resume my journey. I wish you the best, bless you
The words are important to hear. I'm getting into game dev soon hopefully. It's good to come at it from the right angle. I'm going to subscribe for this.
Just wanted to thank you for this inspirational video mate. Absolutely loved your mountain hiking analogy and will be something I remember through my own game dev journey.
Im a newbie to the dev scene. Ive been trying to learn the bare basics on Unity for about a month now. Thank you for giving me a realistic outlook on creating games early on.
I been learning in my spare time for fun, I just love games and wanna learn as a hobby. rather just keep my main job and use game dev as a creative outlet. totally agree with this
Very true, it took me 3 years (2 years Dev, took a 1 year break in between) to develop an iPhone app game that I worked on as a side project. Made $30 from it yet I took it off the App Store after 2 years as I had to pay $99 per year to Apple to keep it on the App Store so overall, I made a net loss of approximately $170 and hundreds of hours. Still, was a great learning experience and I have no regrets but the hardest part for me, was persistence and not giving up. That enthusiasm soon starts to dwindle after spending countless nights. So overall, do it for the passion and interest, not for the money.
I absolutely loved your speech! Especially the mountain and treasure chest example at 13:00! It is always about the passion and love for the games you are making because game creation in my opinion is not just difficult but can be really stressful and it takes a lot out of you, I'm sure many of us indie game devs can relate. Your project gets more daunting as it progresses and finishing it becomes a problem, that where our passion and determination comes in to complete it properly. And at the end, we can look back and say we enjoyed this fulfilling journey and are proud of what we have achieved no matter the results!
dude... i felt so connected when you spoke about the people that were guaranteeing you their games would be a massive success as i started to chuckle and then you did, too. it really felt like we were laughing together :D great talk! thank you!
I am really happy and humbled to have heard this fairly early on in my game development journey. I will sit at my desk around the same time tomorrow and get back to work despite it. And I think that is sort of the point.
Finding this channel and especially this video on my own journy and its great motivating. Realistic views, some good comparisons, own exp, a lot of honesty and truth. Should be pinned in the "dev log journy"-area :)
The destination is just the cherry on top, the journey is the sundae underneath it. You could spend weeks, months, years trying to catch a feeling that will only last a moment, or you could spend those weeks, months, years taking in and enjoying those moments along the way. Thanks for attending my Ted Talk and thanks for the video.
Very true words but do not be discouraged from trying. Not trying to make your game is an instant failure, at least if you try there might be some success.
I have been trying to make games for the past few years and have never finished a single one, great to watch this kind of video and make sure I have negative confidence in anything.
I love your metaphor of game dev being like going on a hike. It’s long and slow and takes a lot of effort, but the views, sense of accomplishment, adventure and community make it all worth it. I’m definitely learning that. Thanks for helping us keep perspective. I hope you’re find success with your projects.
Another important factor to point out here: like indie filmmakers, many indie-solo game devs are artists, not business people. They approach their game from an art stand-point and often times ignore or lack the knowledge of marketing, business plans, company structure, etc. In almost all cases of successful small indie development becoming a success - it is by a developer or a small team of developers that first and foremost treated it like a business - because it is. This idea of 'if you build it they will come' is often floated by dreamers and not by real business people. A real business-person knows that to get people to come, you have to market a marketable product. There are cases of indie devs 'hitting the jackpot' off of sheer luck, but then that is also true in any business - that does not mean you have any great odds of being that success story. BOTTOM LINE: You CAN make money in indie game dev, as long as you treat it like a business. DO NOT approach this thinking you'll make a game in a month and sell a million copies on steam. NO business works that way. You'll need to support your business with your own money for at least a year, and then you should start seeing slow and incremental profit.
I have always been making games for fun since the time I did them on scratch, so what is interesting I never had that kind of a mindset. The only mindset I had was: "if I enjoy playing people's games, why don't I make a game so I make at least a single person entertained".
I found this channel completely by accident, and I watched a few vids for kicks. But this one, this one hits close to home. I'm not a game dev, I'm a writer. Been doing it for a long time, about 10 years give or take, and I've mostly only done it for fun. Hell, for 6 of those 10 years I didn't even post my stories anywhere, they sat on my harddrive for me and me alone to enjoy. And let me tell you, the message in this video is the truth no matter what industry you're trying to break into. If you don't have fun doing it, you're better off not even starting. When I published my very first original story at the beginning of this year, I wasn't aiming to get rich from it. I wasn't aiming for clout, for large followings, for tons of comments or book deals. All I wanted was a single like, a sign that someone out there read what I spent time writing and enjoyed it. And you know what? I got my like. I got about 300 likes and a few comments. No book deal, no following overnight begging for more, but more than I dreamed of and more than I expected. And if I wouldn't have gotten a single like? It wouldn't have mattered, cause I had fun writing that story. I'm no J.K. Rowling, I'm no E.L. James, but I never expected to become them overnight. I've since made some money on that story in the form of a narration request (don't blow your load, it wasn't a metric ton of cash or anything), and the narration itself is doing very well on youtube in terms of likes and comments. But I don't consider it a success, and I don't consider myself a success because of it. It wasn't organic growth, people didn't come for my story but instead for the narrator. And do you know what I want and expect for my next story? A single like.
When I started learning game development I thought I would get rich quick, but I quickly found out that there's no money in it, still I can't stop doing it because it's so fun!
Yeah.. you gotta do it because you WANT to do it. That is the secret he's telling us. I'm making a game because I've been playing video games my whole life, and I want to make my own. I want to pour all my creativity and brain power into something and forge with my own hands something that has never existed before. Something uniquely mine. I'm making my game for ME.. If they won't make what you want to play, then your only choice is to be disappointed, or to make it yourself. And that's exactly what I'm going to do. And if I finish it and other people want to play it too, then more the better. I'll have already impressed my friends and maybe even my parents. (but probably not on that last one lol. My Mom will most likely be like: "Wow, that's great, but did you get a job yet?")
@@justacasualgamer1957 I mean, don't get me wrong. I'll take the money. But I doubt anyone will ever play my game anyway. So that would be a miracle if it did happen.
I've already grown out of this delusion so this was actually a calming video to watch for me. Everything he said about passion is true. I immediately tried to write my dream game and found out it was not possible as many do but during that process, I found that I absolutely loved developing games. I still have no money from game development but have been doing it for about 6 years because I love it and to be honest I was feeling a little lost but when I watched this and saw how his eyes lit up when he was talking about how amazing it is to combine the love of gaming with art and engineering it clicked like "That is exactly it". If you don't absolutely love every one of those aspects of game development I would say it isn't for you, but you will find out a few months in when you realize you are in way over your head and you have a choice to either give up or find out how to solve problems and love doing it. This video will probably ironically be evergreen on RUclips.
I enjoy making games as much as I enjoy playing them (and I have enough board games to make some game stores jealous 😁). Due to a disability, I am not likely able to ever release a game commercially, but I still make them. If I am lucky, I can get 2 to 3 hours a week to work on games spread over the whole week. But I still enjoy making them enough to do so. I don't make games because I want to make money, I do it for the passion and enjoyment. To me it is a hobby.
Love to hear that and respect for doing so even if you have major obstacles in your way. :) Wish you and the rest of the gamedevs out there all the best with your future game(s). Im creating games as a pure hobby of mine too. I think you really need to consider why you are doing things, sometimes you can ruin your best and most joyful hobbies when you monetize them in some way or another.
Eyyo, also a disabled developer here. I also have no idea if I can make a living, I'd love to, but otherwise I'll just keep teaching myself and making the best things I can. I make video games, tabletop games, comics and illustrations, but I'll probably never be able to live off of them, not unless our society is drastically reshaped. It's a rough position to be in, but good luck to you. I hope you can find whatever success looks like for you.
Well i have to say your explanation made me complete the whole video , while I was looking for other types of videos but your videos is quite simple run video to watch while I do my researchers . Keep making it , good luck man
@@Coeurebene1 i think nowadays its closer to 0.1% who actually make it given the abundance of hobbyists that now exist as the tools have become more readily available.
Very good video! As you said, the journey should be what's really important for the devs. I actually released a game this month that has not reached a huge success but it's totally ok. I'm not looking for money or anything particular I just want to see people enjoy (or not) playing my game, and this has been the case so I'm satisfied, now I just want to make the best out of my game so I continue to work on it by fixing bugs and changing /adding content but the journey already brought me so much confidence, knowledge and joy seeing little streamers play the game live that I don't really need anything else.
Previously, I was imagining that I might encounter that Flappy Bird situation where my game would blow up so quickly so much that I'd get permanent brain damage from all these people and companies making low-effort naughty content without me being able to stop that. And then I'd remove all official channels to download and play the game in hopes that everything would cool down, only for everyone to download an archived version of the game and continue milking it. Now that I have watched this video, I feel safe that this will never happen to me.
Thank you for this. I am a newbie that got in it just because it came my way. I started learning on the side as a hobby. I set out a path saying that my huge game I want to make I won't be able to do until later on after learning. The mindset of waiting 10ish years to make sure I do everything right. Though I started seeing and hearing get rich quick, quickly make a game, or you don't need to code just make the game. So I started to second guess myself and started to fall off my path. I started rushing my learning and my games started to fall apart. Hearing this I almost cried because it confirmed what I knew starting out. Start slow, get a job, keep your head down and learn. Once you are ready and confident show the world the game you have been waiting to make. So again thank you for saving me the heartache and reminding me of my path.
Damn, it was hard to swallow, but in the end I am feeling confident in keeping doing it. The part about "passion" really hit me well because that's what I feel, passion for the entire process and in gaming itself. Thanks for the video
Great video. I appreciate your voice and this message. This "get rich quick" sentiment tapers away as we get older and gain experience I've found, which I think is why platforms like Roblox target younger and younger audiences -- it gets these young minds used to the idea they just need to work harder next time and tries to glamorize the occupation to distract from compensation issues, which desensitizes us to the culture in the workforce for those that chase it even in a professional non-indie setting.
So true, in every aspect. I myself have been involved in game dev for over 15 years, and the commitment, investment, and the amount of work required is often over looked, and underestimated. I still work on games, but it is by no means any source of income for me. Thank you for pointing these things out Lost Relic. This is a reality check for sure, and every Indie game developer should watch this video and understand just how "deep" the game dev world really is.
This video really hit me in the feels. Had some tiny "success" on Roblox back in 2013 when I was 12 years old. Made an RPG game that wasn't even ready to be played, but the dice rolled and I woke up one morning and I saw 300 people were playing my game! I've never been able to get anything resembling success since then and that platform has changed so much; I've gotten discouraged from game dev because of it. I've tried to take up other hobbies, but none are as fun as game dev, so I'm still making games. You said it so well. It's very difficult to turn a creative endeavor into cash in general, let alone in the indie space. But if you really love doing something that excites you, grips you, that reason enough to keep doing it and be happy to enjoy the journey.
I've been working on my game for 4 years now. During that time I've been selling some of the assets I created for it, and now Im living on a 6 grand per month passive income. I enjoy the time I spend on it almost more than anything else. Even if it doesnt make money, the smiles it brings when people see it in VR is worth it.
This was a great video. Got a thumbs up and subscribe from me! I’ve loved game dev for years, but I’ve never once actually gotten to the finish line and published anything, because as you say, it’s a long and hard process. And I’ve never been able to dedicate enough time to actually finish up one of my projects(which have definitely decreased in complexity as I’ve learned more). But it is a fun process, and I’ll probably never stop entirely, even if I never actually publish a game.
It's not a new trend either. TotalBiscuit made a great video about this topic over 5 years ago, people were already talking about the "indiepocalypse" back then. ruclips.net/video/Q4F-zdpFb9I/видео.html
@@rykehuss3435 devs need to popularize code. And doing so, would even make them a distribution channel they controlled.. If more humans knew coding, we would be completely closer to post scarcity because of robots. The constraint is educating people about coding.
I never wanted to go into game dev, I'm actually a character animator, but all of my friends kept trying to get me to be a part of a game project. After years of just accepting and pushing back at it at the same time, I finally find myself actually working on a game because I want to and because I'm tired of the project getting put on hold lol. I'm the time that gets the most joy out of learning some new skill or something so it's been an interesting and very long journey learning how to code... filled with many many tears and frustration. We had a team... I was just supposed to be the art guy, but now.. I'm the art guy, the main programmer... and the musician! (I've never composed music before). But I also don't like watching projects die. And I've decided that this game would help lay down a foundation for my own personal work down the line. While it's my first game.. I'm not really seeing it as just a game if that makes sense or should be said around a bunch of far better developers than I :D This project is something that can be completed and marketed and shown to thousands upon thousands of eyes. A lot more than my personal work being posted to my various socials will ever see. From my branding and advertising background all I see is a much easier way for me to start other things in the future by using the game to act as a springboard! Beyond all of that, I'm still enjoying learning how to program this stuff, the game will have some very nice (and more work than needed) animation and artwork, and I LOVE music theory, so learning music composition will be a really blast for me.
I've kind of accepted this. I'm in gamedev because I love making games, and I wouldn't want any other job. After graduation I'll work for a studio, for experience and living wage, but the goal is indie for the love of video games.
@@maythesciencebewithyou I think you've misunderstood me. I was referring to studio work being a stepping stone before I feel comfortable going (solo) indie.
My first game ever was never released to the public, and never will be. It was a game I made just for me and my friends. 10 years later I still had my friends hit me up and want to play it. This is what started me towards really trying to be a game dev. I don't expect money, I know my games will get virtually no exposure, and I'm by no means a great game dev, I'm just learning all these new programs and tools. But it's fun. The best I honestly could hope for monetarily is for my games to serve as a portfolio that might get me an internship, and possibly get me a job in the field that pays more than what I already do. For me, if even one person likes a game I made and it's a classic in their book, I have succeeded.
In statistics it is called "the survivor bias", after statistic analysis done in WWII planes that survived their mission, without taking in consideration the planes that didn't come back.
Even though I'm not looking to become a game dev, I could really see your advice being used in any sort of business venture that could stem from a hobby
I treat game development like a hobby. Instead of playing video games in my free time, I make them. I'm releasing my first game in a week and I don't really care about it's profit.
Entrepreneurial advice(I need to follow more): "Getting lucky" isn't really something that happens. Each attempt has a chance for success, and you win by rolling that dice as much as possible. If success in 1 in 50 chance, roll 200. Make enough chances so that one success is statistically guaranteed. Though, for my mountain of failed side hustles I need to make more attempts at, game dev is a hobby. I definitely would appreciate making money from it, untimately, it's a fun sidequest in my life's journey. I love it, and I want to bring my creations into the world. This side quests gives me knowledge, skills, and tools for taking on the main storyline, but ultimately, it doesn't bring me closer; with the exception of mental health benefits, networking, and content possibilities.
my suggestion to all Indie Developers : make your game without expecting this will be next hit just thinking that this is gonna your porfolio and if your game will not hit. apply for developer job and then side by side you can work on your dream. without any big failure in your personal life
My experiences with taking game dev seriously for the past 4 months: - A feeling of constantly drowning - See above Thanks for coming to my TED talk. But in seriousness, it really is fucking hard. I finally started to show people the game I've been working on and I've been getting good feedback, but there's so many things I still need to learn, things to try, etc. But I do enjoy the gruelling process of constantly learning and I hope within a month or two I might be able to release the game as a small $2-5 game.
The tone is quite sad and dramatic but you have motivated me to carry on game dev. Thank you so much for the taste of reality that I honestly wasn't aware of.
Awesome video man, what's cool to me about it is I have thought about many different paths, usually I was thinking about money but when I started getting serious about game design, money wasn't even on my mind. "Never thought I'd sell another book, but I knew I'd write one."- George Martin before writing GOT.
@@ZachTheHuman Caffeine usually makes me sleepy :D and even though I tried to make myself love coffee, It ended with me just having one occasionally but never becoming addicted to it. Same for tea, except I dont like tea.
This video really helped me adjust my mindset a bit. I've got a day job that isn't even in game dev, and it's stable but boring. I'd begun to resent it and think about quitting to work on my game full time. I knew that was unwise, but it remained a fanciful temptation until I saw this and realised... I'm probably actually *happier* this way, not just more prudent. I'd be an absolute basketcase if I were living off my savings, hoping and praying that my game succeeded, with no real Plan B if it flopped. And moreover, I'd probably resent the whole journey, try to rush through it, and be doubly resentful if it didn't "pay off." As it is, I can take my time to craft the best game possible, enjoy the journey, and if it doesn't sell, it doesn't sell. My happiness and finances aren't tied to making a buck (much less a quick one) that may not even materialize at the end of this particular game at this point in time. There's worse things than doing something you love in your spare hours without your psychological and financial health being staked to its precarious chances of success.
That was an advice from a sincere heart. As I am getting older (late middle age), my passion is fading away. But, in recent years, I started considering game development as a hobby, never to expect a dime of it. For anyone wants to make money from game development, you need to have "many" things but the most important thing is: MARKETING. I would say spend 90 percent of budget on marketing, not development.
Thank you very much for this, it's true that when I studied game dev in college I was thinking of the riches that I'll get once I've finished my own game and sell it, but as I go along the process of making games and looking into different indie game devs, I've realized how grueling the industry is. I've gone through a lot of mental juggling just because the success of the games I've made isn't on par with my expectations and how hard it is for a programmer without any artistic skills to produce any breathtaking graphics to attract players with. So I just decided to enjoy the process of making games, learn a lot of new things and create connections to people that have the same hobby, then maybe someday in the future, the games we made will be successful
Love your content, this honesty about indie game development is appreciated as it becomes more rare these days, there are so many cheap dream sellers on youtube these days :), keep it up!
I'll be done with my CS degree in about 2-3 weeks and all I want is to pursue indie dev. I got that degree only to have something to fall back on if game dev doesn't work out. In the past couple of months I felt like it was the wrong decision to finish my degree first, because then I'd have had time to do game dev on the side in the past years. With uni and my job there just wasnt much free time left. Reading stories about game devs not even being able to break even or how hard it is to survive as an indie dev I'm glad I did it. I'm pretty hyped about going back into game development though and your videos are a great asset. :)
I just published Dojoran on Steam, and really... It's a very complicated profession. I like to do that, but there is a lot of pressure to not earn even enough to survive, and keep producing anyway.
Sometimes it’s nice to dream of making that hit seller. But you are 100% right, people need to keep their dreams in check with reality. It always saddens me when I see a post about someone quitting their job, banking on being that next great Indy developer. Keep it a passion project, a hobby but please don’t quit your day job. I appreciate your message here and you’ve earned a subscriber.
The delusion behind people believing game dev is easy comes from educational institutions advertising it towards gamers. It's become such a massive issue especially when they advertise it towards going into Indie development :/
Thank you for posting this very much needed reality check 🙂👍 It really is, sadly, lottery odds. Even Tommy Refenes (Super Meat Boy, featured in Indie Game The Movie) is on record as saying that their success came from a different time in indie game dev and some of the doors that were open to them are not open now to new devs. And that's on top of the fact that for every Tommy, Edward, Phil and Jonathan there are thousands and thousands who don't make it. The scene in Indie Game Movie where Tommy is sat in a cafe at 4am, on his own, explaining how he has no money, no social life, no car, that's more like the reality for most who try to live solely on their game earnings.
If you are trying to become a game dev to try to make money, you are probably destined to fail. If you are making a game because you want to make a game, you will almost always succeed.
Glad to see dudes like you out here if you see this comment I’ve been a dev for several years now don’t hesitate to message me if you want help learning concepts!
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w7Wf0h1Q8a4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
New Unity Asset I released for easily making platformers: u3d.as/2eYe
Wishlist my game: store.steampowered.com/app/1081830/Blood_And_Mead/
I started my game dev journey this year. Thank you for the info.
Thanks for the video man. During my last year of college I heavily shifted from illustration, into 3D via Blender, and a year after that I began self teaching myself coding to make games, once my 3D skills lead me to wonder if I could make a game.
The path has been long, and I’ve evolved much as an artist and game developer, but I think I needed to hear this.
I’ve been comparing myself to others lately and it was slowing me down. Like maybe I should be developing faster??!?
But, in reality I have a FT job, and the best part is I haven’t stopped.
I must learn to love the pain of growth.
Great video. But one correction is needed. When media makes a video/article/whatever about a kid in China who allegedly earned $50,000 PER DAY, making an Android game, or when a kid makes some other sum (while in fact it was his father) that's not because it "sounds glamorous". There's this old misconception that news outlets are chasing sensations. While in fact most of the times media is paid to create sensations out of nothing. In this example, let's say Google wants more games for their platform Android. Because that's the simplest way to attract more youngsters to Android, rather than competing iOS. They also want apps to be cheap (free) if possible. Because that also attract users, especially youngsters who never have money.
Well, one approach is that Google pays developers to make games. But that's expensive. It's much easier to create an illusion among devs that it's easy to get rich making Android games. And that anyone can do it. Even some 12.y.o. from Nonamistan. And voila... hordes of dev start making tons of apps. Mostly crap, but quantity leads to competition, and competition leads to 2 things:
1. Greater number of quality games, since it's the only way to make some money.
2. Lower prices, mostly freemium or ad-supported, as that attracts more customers.
And that's why the media rolls out those stories. If you could trace the money, you'd probably find out that Google paid the journalists (and anything passes as "journalist" these days) to push those stories about magical success. It's an old tactics known from the era of gold rush, where to inhabit a certain area, you just needed to spread a story that there's lots of gold there, you just need to dig a little bit and you're rich. It's the same old tactics of promotion (but actually, it's cheating).
I guess im asking randomly but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb lost the login password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me!
@Joseph Emilio instablaster :)
All I want to do is see the game I really want made to be made, so I'm going to make it. Period.
THANK YOU!! Thats what we are doing :D
Get out of my head!! 🤣
Good luck, man. Keep at it. Enjoy it.
Also, rest your ligaments.
Exactly the kind of mindset I have toward this.
same here. And I will make that game by 2025 (2030 at the latest). But I'm not gonna use my own money because I'm very poor. I will just find a company that needs a proven to work type of game (the type I'm working on), and let them struggle with the making and marketing of the game. All I want is 10 million $$$ for myself after the game sells xD
This video actually motivated me to open up Unity and get back to work after procrastinating for nearly a month.
Launching my first game in a couple of weeks. My target is one dollar. If I can make one dollar I will consider it a success.
Tell us the name and where to find it
Issac Ashley don't sell yourself short
@@xoli4228 You both are Isaacs 😂
Never give up bro, what's your game called?
Just commenting to get to know the game so I can get it to my wishlist
I never even thought about money...I just wanted to make a game that I wanted to play...Money was never a factor for me when I decided to be a game dev
yepyep same
Same for me, I just want to learn how to make a game. I've always had a few ideas that I just want to see created, money or not.
Same! I will never make a game that I myself wouldn't find fun, and I never expect to make any significant money off of them anyway. It's just fun to create stuff and cool to know it will exist for others to potential find enjoyment with it as well. That's a better reward in my opinion.
I wonder if it makes fun to play your game normal after spending thousands of ours on development
@@Schoko4craft I think it should. If you make a game that by the end isn't fun to play for you anymore, id argue it wasn't the most fun to begin with.
Being a hobbyist is always something to consider. It doesn't matter if you fail. And you get to make interesting projects.
Tough words, but true words. As someone who at 39 years just started their game dev journey, this is sage advice. The part about enjoying the journey is something that I teach to my kids all the time. Life is about the process, respect it and work hard. Good luck to everyone grinding ;)
I love the relevance of your username
I'm 39 too, seeing more people at the same age starting now is encouraging.
41 here, let's go!
40 here and starting my first serious attempt at developing. Lol
40 here, lets go boys! I loved this video, I see so much truth in this... Indie game dev is not an easy path follow, you really must put love in it, persistence and have a solid plan, even more to old guys like us...
Even the devs that have big hits usually have a ton of games before it that had very limited success in their catalogue. Consistency and never giving up is the only path to success, and even then it is not guaranteed. BTW what you are saying is true in almost every single creative endeavor.
"Dead men tell no tales" applies to almost anything. Learning from failure should be as relevant as learning from success in my opinion, but failure is something we usally run away from, like always.
Great insights in only 20+min! Thanks!
Failure is more informative if you have the balls to pay attention.
Iirc this is called survivors bias, basically that you sometimes the lack of something tells more than the presence of it
RUclips suggested me your video. Apparently its algorithm was alarmed by my latest excitement about videogame development, ahaha
Thank you for your video, luckily I was already in line with your perspective: what matters is the process of dev, and what you learn and experience through it.
RUclips cares ♥️
when he said "if you pick up plastic bottles on the street... you'd probably come out on top", that hit close
I'd say that if you want to make games, you need to have income elsewhere. Ultimately game developers are artists, and artists are know to starve
Yes, but thats just a romantic fantasy, you dont need to force that on yourself or anybody else. You can be an artist and also make good money.
I respect people who do game dev after work, I remember as a student, I was thinkg about my game whole day at school, looking forward to work on it as soon as I come home, but when I came home I was exhausted, mentaly and physicaly. I made most of the work when I was sick at home.
Yup this happens to me everytime. Luckily I got a lot of the crappy stuff done with so its pretty fun to work on it now. Full release coming out end of december.
Good luck! Wishing you a good launch
My fiance and I started our own little studio to start making games months before the Pandemic started. It has been a dream of mine since I was a kid. I had one project I worked alone on for years before I finally started learning more about Game Development. So, finally after a ton of work(Free) I am almost ready for a demo to be made, but I grew tired of my project and needed a break from it, so my fiance pitched a idea to me for a smaller game we could make together while on break from my other project. We started work on it the very next day, worked around the clock for months in order to get a fully working demo. We are now about to do an early version of it for sale soon, it will be our very first game that either of us has ever worked on. We are excited about the product we made because it is special to Us, and she came up with the idea. I hope we will make some money eventually, but it will never beat the feeling of Creation. I, personally feel paid when someone sees what we have accomplished(Being 2 noobs) and says Good Job! Greatest feeling ever! Great video that is so truthful! Thanks.
All true. I think some of the misconception may also come from the fact that in many ways game dev looks a lot like general software dev. It's really important to remember that as a game dev, even though you're using a pc instead of a musical instrument or brushes, you're still an artist and are attempting to enter the entertainment industry. And the financial and job security levels are comparable.
Also the competition and the fact that you actually need at least a little talent (and a lot of luck).
really no. If you are savvy in programing as c# or even better c++, or in animation side in python as Technical animator and rigger you can find ok job in the industry and use opportunity to also learn earn money and work.
@@tomislavtomic7184 well, if you want to work solely as a programmer or generally as a technical specialist, this certainly is true. but, if you really are chasing the proverbial dragon of being a solo/indie gamedev then you really are knee deep in the creative field.
@@tomislavtomic7184 its like the difference between a sound engineer and the band making the album. They are very different things!
I can't believe how delusional I've become. Thank you for this. I needed it.
You just have to aim for $1 a day of ad revenue and then you can retire in a country like Eswatini.
Crazy how quickly a dream can turn into delusion. I needed this too, I wasn't expecting to get rich or anything, but I also needed to realize that my games aren't that special, my skills aren't that great. My skills and ideas have SO much room to grow, and that's honestly exciting.
@@synthemagician4686 Even if your skills were the best, your product would most likely drown in a ocean of games. What most people ignore is the importance of marketing. That's even more important than the quality of your games.
@@maythesciencebewithyou Yes and no. All the marketing in the world won’t save a crap game
Some people wake up and listen to motivational speeches before starting their day.
I make sure I'm depressed as hell.
The biggest depressions come from failed false expectations. You are doing great by preventing that happening
be careful, it's about balance. if you are the type to be over confident than what you are doing is good. if you are the opposite though, you are certainly shooting yourself in the foot
You made me laugh sooo hard 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pay him no mind. Working for someone you are guaranteed 40k - 120k per year. Releasing multiple games with you and a few developers is where the big money is at though
I laughed a lot harder at this then I probably should have. :S
Being able to tell whether your project will be a success or not is a skill in itself. Knowing what excites people is a very powerful advantage. Most people are not successful because they don't take the time to tap in to what makes something appealing. If you hit a certain level of quality, aesthetic, game feel, marketing etc. then you can safely bet your game will AT LEAST break even. It takes years of studying the successes and failures of others and yourself to be able to determine whether something will draw people in or get washed into obscurity.
Beautifully said mate
This!
Funny thing is even back when I was a kid, I thought games were masterpieces that combined so many things I love, i.e technology, art and story telling. I tried to make games as soon as I got my own computer, I downloaded a game engine called 3d rad and I started to mess around with it. Although the engine came with several assets that you could use to make a functioning game without ever needing to make your own scripts, I realized that I had to learn a lot before I could start making anything worthwhile. It kind of discouraged me because I was young and thought it would be so easy. Fast forward a couple of years, with a couple of years of self taught programming under my belt, I decided to give it a go again. You and a couple of other RUclipsrs have helped me take what I learned and start applying it, helping make my silly childhood dream come true. Just the fact that I can now think of something right now and make it into a game would have blown my kid mind and still does blow my mind to this day. Thank you for helping me get here, man.
As an indie game dev, this is one of my favorite videos. Thank you for this brutal reality check. This lights a fire in my heart for some reason.
Ive been working on my game Dwerve for 3 years. If it fails its going to be very hard on me. People have no idea how hard it is for most indie devs.
How you afraid of failure, and you already succeed in your campaign with a rate of %500?
Start planning now. -- the statistics aren't in your favor.
Better not fail, I'm a backer 😉 Seriously though, Dwerve is great so far, and I have full faith in it being a great game, so hopefully it finds critical and commercial success once it's complete!
@@DessieDoyle Haha it will be good but fingers crossed youtubers play it.
I've been following for a while and I think it looks really fun. I can tell it must have been a massive amount of work and I'm sure it will work out great!
I promise I'll buy it when I have the money spare :)
Game development is the most taxing experience I've felt as a programmer. Not only do you need to code, you need to do every aspect of a game. Areas that the traditional developer would not have experience in great lengths.
You need a healthy "hope for the best but expect the worst" attitude when making indie games. Don't bank your financial situation on optimistic sales projections, especially if it's your first release.
AAA studios fail there with all the advantages at times. So no matter how many don't bank.
It’s about having fun
Yep. A few very lucky developers "break through" and some can even retire on what they sold at first. These people are VERY, VERY LUCKY. Sometimes what they made isn't even some super high quality thing. Right place, right time, got picked up by the right streamer, etc.
The first commercial game I made did quite poorly. Got bad reviews. In total, sales were less than what I spent (around $2,000). And that's on Steam.
That was years ago though. I'm looking to do a No Man's Sky style turnaround on that in addition to the new projects I'm working on being of much higher quality. I'm gonna keep plugging away.
@@SkeleTonHammer what was the name of the game?
Really if you don't have any experience making games, your first game might not be the greatest. You can't go on a 10 mile bike ride if you don't know how to ride a bike.
I am one of those people who worked 3 years on one game and sold 20 Copys on release day lol. The ones who bought it, liked it most of the time, but nobody knows that this game exist. Even when I tried to market it well and write many many emails and stuff like this. I loved to make this game, but man it was a tough road with couple of mental issues durring the whole process deving the hell out of it by my own. Indie devs have only a couple of chances: 1. Your game is truly brilliant, the idea is new and speaks to a huge audience 2. You got very good connections to big media influencer 3. You have won a lottery ticket (which is like actually playing the lottery)
I just took a look at your game. I don't say this to be harsh, but it looks extremely bland. If that's you taking your best shot, no lottery ticket is gonna save you.
If you release a game, you usually only have a chance in the month you release. That's where you sell most of your copies. Even if many people download and play your game, they'll quickly move on to the next thing. Everyday tens of thousands of games, most of it trash, is released. So your game will most likely just drown in a sea of mediocrity. It's like Google searches, people only click on the first few links they see, at most they'll go to the second page.
That's why marketing has become more important than ever. You have to push your game to the front page for people to see it, otherwise they won't.
Also, you need to worry about the competition and trolls and haters. If they see your game first, they'll downvote it and if your first rating is 1 star, then nobody else will want to touch it.
Many successful people become successful by buying their first 1000 or so likes. Only after reaching a certain threshold can you expect a snowballing effect.
@@MHjort9 Bit judgy for a one-man passion project
@@futuregamer25 yeah but he is right.... I only watched the two trailers but just can't see a reason to even try it out. There is now world (implizit/explizit) or Story which would suck me in. Instead it appears to be a collection of gamesystems that just don't add up to a complete whole thing.
@@MrDasfried That’s just how indie games work. No matter how great they are, you aren’t going to enjoy most of them, because they target their individual niches. Just because you wouldn’t personally enjoy something doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just not tailored to your tastes.
I thank all that took a moment to drop a like or comment, it's truly appreciated! Come by the discord if you want to hang out discord.gg/yeTuU53
Where did you get that music from? I have to find it! It's perfect for working to.
Thank you very much for making this video. I'm well into my first full-scale game. I am also a full-time computer Network Engineer as my "day-job". There is this fantasy I have of being Team Cherry, or Yacht Club, but ultimately my goal is to make a great game; it has ZERO to do with money. When I play truly great games, I think to myself "I wish I could make that", but that motivation is 100% because I would love to be responsible for providing other people that lovely feeling that I get when I finish a great game and say to myself "that was amazing". Maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't, but it will NEVER be motivated by mone. Thanks again for the video and for your tutorials, some of which I've used while making my games.
You forgot to scare them off early with the word math, 3d math becomes tons of fun with surface normals (or worse physics) and everything else in play. I mean, about 3 years of daily work and I've almost covered the beginning of every field lol. Unreal/Multiplayer and modeling, tons of work just to get started. But yeah marketing is so huge, and ideas are a dime a dozen. Glad I enjoy it tbh. Though not my work field. And it's worse than no return as you'll likely buy assets and courses.
Xavier Magnus nice last name
750 dollars profit in 4 years on Steam overall? Your presenting this a bit dramatically, gamedevelopment is just like starting any other business. It has the same risks and same potentials, nothing more :)
I love you analogy of the suitcase in the garbage bin. I entered GameDev 3 months ago with the simple goal of building a like-minded community and sharing my experience in learning GameDev from scratch to help inspire anyone that was passionate about games to give it a shot. I just hit 300 subscribers within a couple of weeks and I feel like having 300 people to share knowledge with and support me during development is more valuable than 300 sales of a finished product.
Thanks for the video, it's great advice that applies to every single creative industry.
The same exact words can be said for Musicians, Actors, Writers, Painters, Small Business Owners, Dancers, Singers, RUclipsrs, comedians, and etc.
pretty much anyone who has made or created anything ever.
omg so true. thank you for the reminder.
"Straining our eyes at 3 am" - I feel called out
Some things in life come down to luck. People preach hard work and passion, but people don’t talk about luck. Life is unpredictable.... good luck everybody.
No such thing as luck
@@Phoenix-gz9xb it exists and it's very important
@@ganimol9691 It exist about as much as the tooth fairy
@@Phoenix-gz9xb What do you call like he said in the video the success of flappy bird? Or many such games?
@@ganimol9691 its not luck just because he said it lol flappy bird was different. Challenging, but simple. Its never luck. Just like the first tree. If it wasnt for advertising and GIFs it would have never become what it was. Even the dev said that. Luck is about as stupid as life being based on evolution. Let me just end the convo with that. Respect. Have a good one.
"A lotto winner will describe lottery tickets as a verifiable smart investment."
Really good and honest talk, love to see it.
Damn. Great work, again.
I spent the last 12 years working (with reasonable success) in theatre as a writer, and the experience parallels.
Keep doing what you do
I love the music bed you chose for this... Such a good idea and technique.
I’ve been wanting to make a game for half of my life. I recently got serious and started my first project. Thank you so much for this video. I had already decided to make my game free to avoid that “making money” mindset and view it as a passion project on my bucket list, to learn and challenge myself. I wish you success, but more importantly, happiness and enjoyment in your journey.
And how is it now?
Thank you very much for this video, I needed it. Since last year I was wondering why I left my game projects pending. You made me realize that, I was doing this for the wrong reason. For some "easy money", but it was devoid of fun... So I never finished it... And because I was pushing myself so hard to do this small, quick money projects first, I actually never worked on the one actually care about, yet bigger, but that makes me feel like Time doesn't exist anymore, that wakes me in the middle of the night because I have an idea or find resolved something.
Your video made me remember why I've always wanted to be a Game Dev and that's not for the treasure chest.
Having found my path again, I shall resume my journey.
I wish you the best, bless you
The words are important to hear. I'm getting into game dev soon hopefully. It's good to come at it from the right angle. I'm going to subscribe for this.
Just wanted to thank you for this inspirational video mate. Absolutely loved your mountain hiking analogy and will be something I remember through my own game dev journey.
Your skins flawless mate. Easy on the ears and easy on the eyes mate!
Im a newbie to the dev scene. Ive been trying to learn the bare basics on Unity for about a month now. Thank you for giving me a realistic outlook on creating games early on.
This is why I decided to move into the asset creation instead of my own game project
I been learning in my spare time for fun, I just love games and wanna learn as a hobby. rather just keep my main job and use game dev as a creative outlet. totally agree with this
Very true, it took me 3 years (2 years Dev, took a 1 year break in between) to develop an iPhone app game that I worked on as a side project. Made $30 from it yet I took it off the App Store after 2 years as I had to pay $99 per year to Apple to keep it on the App Store so overall, I made a net loss of approximately $170 and hundreds of hours. Still, was a great learning experience and I have no regrets but the hardest part for me, was persistence and not giving up. That enthusiasm soon starts to dwindle after spending countless nights. So overall, do it for the passion and interest, not for the money.
Hey man. Thank you for the video. I'm so glad I came across it. It's incredibly humbling for me. :)
I absolutely loved your speech! Especially the mountain and treasure chest example at 13:00! It is always about the passion and love for the games you are making because game creation in my opinion is not just difficult but can be really stressful and it takes a lot out of you, I'm sure many of us indie game devs can relate. Your project gets more daunting as it progresses and finishing it becomes a problem, that where our passion and determination comes in to complete it properly.
And at the end, we can look back and say we enjoyed this fulfilling journey and are proud of what we have achieved no matter the results!
dude...
i felt so connected when you spoke about the people that were guaranteeing you their games would be a massive success as i started to chuckle and then you did, too. it really felt like we were laughing together :D
great talk! thank you!
I am really happy and humbled to have heard this fairly early on in my game development journey. I will sit at my desk around the same time tomorrow and get back to work despite it. And I think that is sort of the point.
100%
Finding this channel and especially this video on my own journy and its great motivating. Realistic views, some good comparisons, own exp, a lot of honesty and truth. Should be pinned in the "dev log journy"-area :)
The destination is just the cherry on top, the journey is the sundae underneath it. You could spend weeks, months, years trying to catch a feeling that will only last a moment, or you could spend those weeks, months, years taking in and enjoying those moments along the way. Thanks for attending my Ted Talk and thanks for the video.
This talk is so true and applies to virtually every creative endeavour in life. Be practical first.
How dare you crush my naive optimism! But also thank you haha
This is my first time seeing this channel and i can say this was a really powerful video. I cant wait to see what else the channel has to offer!
I don't want a Lamborghini. I just want to make ends meet doing something I love.
Is that feasible?
Man, I feel the same, at least if possible keeping a steady source of income would be my first priority if I'm grinding on the hours continuously
It's definetly possible, but you'll have to wait a while before that happens.
Very true words but do not be discouraged from trying. Not trying to make your game is an instant failure, at least if you try there might be some success.
I have been trying to make games for the past few years and have never finished a single one, great to watch this kind of video and make sure I have negative confidence in anything.
I love your metaphor of game dev being like going on a hike. It’s long and slow and takes a lot of effort, but the views, sense of accomplishment, adventure and community make it all worth it. I’m definitely learning that. Thanks for helping us keep perspective. I hope you’re find success with your projects.
"Study, discipline".... Those are golden forgotten words. And even they are far from enough. Thank you for video. :)
Another important factor to point out here: like indie filmmakers, many indie-solo game devs are artists, not business people. They approach their game from an art stand-point and often times ignore or lack the knowledge of marketing, business plans, company structure, etc.
In almost all cases of successful small indie development becoming a success - it is by a developer or a small team of developers that first and foremost treated it like a business - because it is. This idea of 'if you build it they will come' is often floated by dreamers and not by real business people. A real business-person knows that to get people to come, you have to market a marketable product.
There are cases of indie devs 'hitting the jackpot' off of sheer luck, but then that is also true in any business - that does not mean you have any great odds of being that success story.
BOTTOM LINE: You CAN make money in indie game dev, as long as you treat it like a business. DO NOT approach this thinking you'll make a game in a month and sell a million copies on steam. NO business works that way. You'll need to support your business with your own money for at least a year, and then you should start seeing slow and incremental profit.
Treat it like a business. PREACH.
I have always been making games for fun since the time I did them on scratch, so what is interesting I never had that kind of a mindset. The only mindset I had was: "if I enjoy playing people's games, why don't I make a game so I make at least a single person entertained".
I found this channel completely by accident, and I watched a few vids for kicks. But this one, this one hits close to home.
I'm not a game dev, I'm a writer. Been doing it for a long time, about 10 years give or take, and I've mostly only done it for fun. Hell, for 6 of those 10 years I didn't even post my stories anywhere, they sat on my harddrive for me and me alone to enjoy. And let me tell you, the message in this video is the truth no matter what industry you're trying to break into. If you don't have fun doing it, you're better off not even starting. When I published my very first original story at the beginning of this year, I wasn't aiming to get rich from it. I wasn't aiming for clout, for large followings, for tons of comments or book deals. All I wanted was a single like, a sign that someone out there read what I spent time writing and enjoyed it.
And you know what? I got my like. I got about 300 likes and a few comments. No book deal, no following overnight begging for more, but more than I dreamed of and more than I expected. And if I wouldn't have gotten a single like? It wouldn't have mattered, cause I had fun writing that story. I'm no J.K. Rowling, I'm no E.L. James, but I never expected to become them overnight.
I've since made some money on that story in the form of a narration request (don't blow your load, it wasn't a metric ton of cash or anything), and the narration itself is doing very well on youtube in terms of likes and comments. But I don't consider it a success, and I don't consider myself a success because of it. It wasn't organic growth, people didn't come for my story but instead for the narrator. And do you know what I want and expect for my next story? A single like.
this is a beautiful mindset i love it
When I started learning game development I thought I would get rich quick, but I quickly found out that there's no money in it, still I can't stop doing it because it's so fun!
Yeah.. you gotta do it because you WANT to do it.
That is the secret he's telling us.
I'm making a game because I've been playing video games my whole life, and I want to make my own.
I want to pour all my creativity and brain power into something and forge with my own hands something that has never existed before. Something uniquely mine.
I'm making my game for ME..
If they won't make what you want to play, then your only choice is to be disappointed, or to make it yourself.
And that's exactly what I'm going to do.
And if I finish it and other people want to play it too, then more the better.
I'll have already impressed my friends and maybe even my parents.
(but probably not on that last one lol. My Mom will most likely be like: "Wow, that's great, but did you get a job yet?")
@@chaosmastermind same for me making games is art not some money making machine
@@justacasualgamer1957 I mean, don't get me wrong. I'll take the money.
But I doubt anyone will ever play my game anyway. So that would be a miracle if it did happen.
thats what i like to hear
ye
I've already grown out of this delusion so this was actually a calming video to watch for me. Everything he said about passion is true. I immediately tried to write my dream game and found out it was not possible as many do but during that process, I found that I absolutely loved developing games. I still have no money from game development but have been doing it for about 6 years because I love it and to be honest I was feeling a little lost but when I watched this and saw how his eyes lit up when he was talking about how amazing it is to combine the love of gaming with art and engineering it clicked like "That is exactly it". If you don't absolutely love every one of those aspects of game development I would say it isn't for you, but you will find out a few months in when you realize you are in way over your head and you have a choice to either give up or find out how to solve problems and love doing it. This video will probably ironically be evergreen on RUclips.
I enjoy making games as much as I enjoy playing them (and I have enough board games to make some game stores jealous 😁).
Due to a disability, I am not likely able to ever release a game commercially, but I still make them. If I am lucky, I can get 2 to 3 hours a week to work on games spread over the whole week. But I still enjoy making them enough to do so.
I don't make games because I want to make money, I do it for the passion and enjoyment. To me it is a hobby.
Love to hear that and respect for doing so even if you have major obstacles in your way. :) Wish you and the rest of the gamedevs out there all the best with your future game(s).
Im creating games as a pure hobby of mine too. I think you really need to consider why you are doing things, sometimes you can ruin your best and most joyful hobbies when you monetize them in some way or another.
Eyyo, also a disabled developer here. I also have no idea if I can make a living, I'd love to, but otherwise I'll just keep teaching myself and making the best things I can. I make video games, tabletop games, comics and illustrations, but I'll probably never be able to live off of them, not unless our society is drastically reshaped.
It's a rough position to be in, but good luck to you. I hope you can find whatever success looks like for you.
A fellow disabled here. Working on learning enough to get my game concept done.
Well i have to say your explanation made me complete the whole video , while I was looking for other types of videos but your videos is quite simple run video to watch while I do my researchers . Keep making it , good luck man
Whether you're writing a book, making software, or in a music band, it takes 10 hard years on average to be the next 'over-night success'.
and that's for the 1% who actually make it...
@@Coeurebene1 i think nowadays its closer to 0.1% who actually make it given the abundance of hobbyists that now exist as the tools have become more readily available.
Very good video! As you said, the journey should be what's really important for the devs. I actually released a game this month that has not reached a huge success but it's totally ok. I'm not looking for money or anything particular I just want to see people enjoy (or not) playing my game, and this has been the case so I'm satisfied, now I just want to make the best out of my game so I continue to work on it by fixing bugs and changing /adding content but the journey already brought me so much confidence, knowledge and joy seeing little streamers play the game live that I don't really need anything else.
Previously, I was imagining that I might encounter that Flappy Bird situation where my game would blow up so quickly so much that I'd get permanent brain damage from all these people and companies making low-effort naughty content without me being able to stop that.
And then I'd remove all official channels to download and play the game in hopes that everything would cool down, only for everyone to download an archived version of the game and continue milking it.
Now that I have watched this video, I feel safe that this will never happen to me.
Thank you for this. I am a newbie that got in it just because it came my way. I started learning on the side as a hobby. I set out a path saying that my huge game I want to make I won't be able to do until later on after learning. The mindset of waiting 10ish years to make sure I do everything right. Though I started seeing and hearing get rich quick, quickly make a game, or you don't need to code just make the game. So I started to second guess myself and started to fall off my path. I started rushing my learning and my games started to fall apart. Hearing this I almost cried because it confirmed what I knew starting out. Start slow, get a job, keep your head down and learn. Once you are ready and confident show the world the game you have been waiting to make. So again thank you for saving me the heartache and reminding me of my path.
Damn, it was hard to swallow, but in the end I am feeling confident in keeping doing it. The part about "passion" really hit me well because that's what I feel, passion for the entire process and in gaming itself. Thanks for the video
Great video. I appreciate your voice and this message. This "get rich quick" sentiment tapers away as we get older and gain experience I've found, which I think is why platforms like Roblox target younger and younger audiences -- it gets these young minds used to the idea they just need to work harder next time and tries to glamorize the occupation to distract from compensation issues, which desensitizes us to the culture in the workforce for those that chase it even in a professional non-indie setting.
So true, in every aspect. I myself have been involved in game dev for over 15 years, and the commitment, investment, and the amount of work required is often over looked, and underestimated. I still work on games, but it is by no means any source of income for me. Thank you for pointing these things out Lost Relic. This is a reality check for sure, and every Indie game developer should watch this video and understand just how "deep" the game dev world really is.
This video really hit me in the feels. Had some tiny "success" on Roblox back in 2013 when I was 12 years old. Made an RPG game that wasn't even ready to be played, but the dice rolled and I woke up one morning and I saw 300 people were playing my game! I've never been able to get anything resembling success since then and that platform has changed so much; I've gotten discouraged from game dev because of it. I've tried to take up other hobbies, but none are as fun as game dev, so I'm still making games. You said it so well. It's very difficult to turn a creative endeavor into cash in general, let alone in the indie space. But if you really love doing something that excites you, grips you, that reason enough to keep doing it and be happy to enjoy the journey.
I've been working on my game for 4 years now. During that time I've been selling some of the assets I created for it, and now Im living on a 6 grand per month passive income. I enjoy the time I spend on it almost more than anything else. Even if it doesnt make money, the smiles it brings when people see it in VR is worth it.
6K a month from only selling assets? That is incredible! Are these assets on the Unity Asset store or?
That's pretty insane, tbh.
yeah thats a ridiculous amount of passive income
Great job.
This was a great video. Got a thumbs up and subscribe from me! I’ve loved game dev for years, but I’ve never once actually gotten to the finish line and published anything, because as you say, it’s a long and hard process. And I’ve never been able to dedicate enough time to actually finish up one of my projects(which have definitely decreased in complexity as I’ve learned more). But it is a fun process, and I’ll probably never stop entirely, even if I never actually publish a game.
The starving game developer, joining the ranks of starving filmmaker, starving artist, starving writer etc 💀
Until the starving politician joins the ranks nothing will be done
@@zoompt-lm5xw What should be done? Communism? Should people not have the right to decide what they spend their money on?
It's not a new trend either. TotalBiscuit made a great video about this topic over 5 years ago, people were already talking about the "indiepocalypse" back then. ruclips.net/video/Q4F-zdpFb9I/видео.html
@@rykehuss3435 devs need to popularize code. And doing so, would even make them a distribution channel they controlled.. If more humans knew coding, we would be completely closer to post scarcity because of robots. The constraint is educating people about coding.
@@zoompt-lm5xw thats just an opinionated homeless man
I never wanted to go into game dev, I'm actually a character animator, but all of my friends kept trying to get me to be a part of a game project. After years of just accepting and pushing back at it at the same time, I finally find myself actually working on a game because I want to and because I'm tired of the project getting put on hold lol. I'm the time that gets the most joy out of learning some new skill or something so it's been an interesting and very long journey learning how to code... filled with many many tears and frustration. We had a team... I was just supposed to be the art guy, but now.. I'm the art guy, the main programmer... and the musician! (I've never composed music before). But I also don't like watching projects die. And I've decided that this game would help lay down a foundation for my own personal work down the line.
While it's my first game.. I'm not really seeing it as just a game if that makes sense or should be said around a bunch of far better developers than I :D
This project is something that can be completed and marketed and shown to thousands upon thousands of eyes. A lot more than my personal work being posted to my various socials will ever see. From my branding and advertising background all I see is a much easier way for me to start other things in the future by using the game to act as a springboard!
Beyond all of that, I'm still enjoying learning how to program this stuff, the game will have some very nice (and more work than needed) animation and artwork, and I LOVE music theory, so learning music composition will be a really blast for me.
I've kind of accepted this. I'm in gamedev because I love making games, and I wouldn't want any other job. After graduation I'll work for a studio, for experience and living wage, but the goal is indie for the love of video games.
Pay attention to your contract then, some companies won't let you do something on the side
@@maythesciencebewithyou I think you've misunderstood me. I was referring to studio work being a stepping stone before I feel comfortable going (solo) indie.
My first game ever was never released to the public, and never will be. It was a game I made just for me and my friends. 10 years later I still had my friends hit me up and want to play it. This is what started me towards really trying to be a game dev. I don't expect money, I know my games will get virtually no exposure, and I'm by no means a great game dev, I'm just learning all these new programs and tools. But it's fun. The best I honestly could hope for monetarily is for my games to serve as a portfolio that might get me an internship, and possibly get me a job in the field that pays more than what I already do. For me, if even one person likes a game I made and it's a classic in their book, I have succeeded.
We only see success, all the buried unfinished game are left unnoticed
The dire cousin of survivorship bias...
Or is it survivorship bias itself?
In statistics it is called "the survivor bias", after statistic analysis done in WWII planes that survived their mission, without taking in consideration the planes that didn't come back.
I'd say it also falls under the "representativeness heuristic."
Even though I'm not looking to become a game dev, I could really see your advice being used in any sort of business venture that could stem from a hobby
thanks for telling people the truth ...
I didn't know people tought that indie Devs made a lot of money
@@comikawn5147 u sure you're not high
@@comikawn5147 nice drugs👍
Aww they deleted the reply, I want to know what it said :(
This is real-talk that one may not want.. but absolutely needs. Thanks brother! Was really insightful.
I treat game development like a hobby. Instead of playing video games in my free time, I make them. I'm releasing my first game in a week and I don't really care about it's profit.
Entrepreneurial advice(I need to follow more): "Getting lucky" isn't really something that happens. Each attempt has a chance for success, and you win by rolling that dice as much as possible. If success in 1 in 50 chance, roll 200. Make enough chances so that one success is statistically guaranteed.
Though, for my mountain of failed side hustles I need to make more attempts at, game dev is a hobby. I definitely would appreciate making money from it, untimately, it's a fun sidequest in my life's journey. I love it, and I want to bring my creations into the world. This side quests gives me knowledge, skills, and tools for taking on the main storyline, but ultimately, it doesn't bring me closer; with the exception of mental health benefits, networking, and content possibilities.
my suggestion to all Indie Developers : make your game without expecting this will be next hit just thinking that this is gonna your porfolio and if your game will not hit. apply for developer job and then side by side you can work on your dream. without any big failure in your personal life
I figured that this video was going to be on this, and I wanted that, and it delivered. Very nice video
My experiences with taking game dev seriously for the past 4 months:
- A feeling of constantly drowning
- See above
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
But in seriousness, it really is fucking hard. I finally started to show people the game I've been working on and I've been getting good feedback, but there's so many things I still need to learn, things to try, etc. But I do enjoy the gruelling process of constantly learning and I hope within a month or two I might be able to release the game as a small $2-5 game.
The tone is quite sad and dramatic but you have motivated me to carry on game dev.
Thank you so much for the taste of reality that I honestly wasn't aware of.
Thank you. A samurai has no goal, only path.
The garbage bin analogy was pretty damn spot on
youtube recommendations finally got it right. This is the first video I see from you and I subbed.
Awesome video man, what's cool to me about it is I have thought about many different paths, usually I was thinking about money but when I started getting serious about game design, money wasn't even on my mind.
"Never thought I'd sell another book, but I knew I'd write one."- George Martin before writing GOT.
3:01 those are cliches tho, no one is forcing you into these unhealthy habits
Yeah but that’s the fun part!
@@ZachTheHuman Caffeine usually makes me sleepy :D and even though I tried to make myself love coffee, It ended with me just having one occasionally but never becoming addicted to it. Same for tea, except I dont like tea.
This video really helped me adjust my mindset a bit. I've got a day job that isn't even in game dev, and it's stable but boring. I'd begun to resent it and think about quitting to work on my game full time. I knew that was unwise, but it remained a fanciful temptation until I saw this and realised... I'm probably actually *happier* this way, not just more prudent.
I'd be an absolute basketcase if I were living off my savings, hoping and praying that my game succeeded, with no real Plan B if it flopped. And moreover, I'd probably resent the whole journey, try to rush through it, and be doubly resentful if it didn't "pay off."
As it is, I can take my time to craft the best game possible, enjoy the journey, and if it doesn't sell, it doesn't sell. My happiness and finances aren't tied to making a buck (much less a quick one) that may not even materialize at the end of this particular game at this point in time. There's worse things than doing something you love in your spare hours without your psychological and financial health being staked to its precarious chances of success.
That was an advice from a sincere heart.
As I am getting older (late middle age), my passion is fading away.
But, in recent years, I started considering game development as a hobby, never to expect a dime of it.
For anyone wants to make money from game development, you need to have "many" things but the most important thing is: MARKETING. I would say spend 90 percent of budget on marketing, not development.
Thank you very much for this, it's true that when I studied game dev in college I was thinking of the riches that I'll get once I've finished my own game and sell it, but as I go along the process of making games and looking into different indie game devs, I've realized how grueling the industry is. I've gone through a lot of mental juggling just because the success of the games I've made isn't on par with my expectations and how hard it is for a programmer without any artistic skills to produce any breathtaking graphics to attract players with. So I just decided to enjoy the process of making games, learn a lot of new things and create connections to people that have the same hobby, then maybe someday in the future, the games we made will be successful
Love your content, this honesty about indie game development is appreciated as it becomes more rare these days, there are so many cheap dream sellers on youtube these days :), keep it up!
I'll be done with my CS degree in about 2-3 weeks and all I want is to pursue indie dev. I got that degree only to have something to fall back on if game dev doesn't work out. In the past couple of months I felt like it was the wrong decision to finish my degree first, because then I'd have had time to do game dev on the side in the past years. With uni and my job there just wasnt much free time left. Reading stories about game devs not even being able to break even or how hard it is to survive as an indie dev I'm glad I did it. I'm pretty hyped about going back into game development though and your videos are a great asset. :)
I just published Dojoran on Steam, and really... It's a very complicated profession.
I like to do that, but there is a lot of pressure to not earn even enough to survive, and keep producing anyway.
Sometimes it’s nice to dream of making that hit seller. But you are 100% right, people need to keep their dreams in check with reality. It always saddens me when I see a post about someone quitting their job, banking on being that next great Indy developer. Keep it a passion project, a hobby but please don’t quit your day job. I appreciate your message here and you’ve earned a subscriber.
The delusion behind people believing game dev is easy comes from educational institutions advertising it towards gamers. It's become such a massive issue especially when they advertise it towards going into Indie development :/
Thank you for posting this very much needed reality check 🙂👍 It really is, sadly, lottery odds. Even Tommy Refenes (Super Meat Boy, featured in Indie Game The Movie) is on record as saying that their success came from a different time in indie game dev and some of the doors that were open to them are not open now to new devs. And that's on top of the fact that for every Tommy, Edward, Phil and Jonathan there are thousands and thousands who don't make it.
The scene in Indie Game Movie where Tommy is sat in a cafe at 4am, on his own, explaining how he has no money, no social life, no car, that's more like the reality for most who try to live solely on their game earnings.
As a 32 years old beginner game dev this is actually what I love to hear at the start of my journey.
Same here
Same 👊
If you are trying to become a game dev to try to make money, you are probably destined to fail. If you are making a game because you want to make a game, you will almost always succeed.
31 here
Glad to see dudes like you out here if you see this comment I’ve been a dev for several years now don’t hesitate to message me if you want help learning concepts!