Just recently made my own measuring rig, checked my Base and adjusted one side as it was out on A's and B's by 10mm. After adjustment all was very close. Really happy I did it myself. I think as a pilot, understanding your wing is important.
I absolutely love the the jig and idea. I have been considering opening a repair shop and getting a repair/dealer license. This is the behind the scenes stuff I love about this sport... thanks for always trying new and fun things!!
ahmd abdallah I have no idea why you commented that but don’t try to put your religion on anyone! That’s for each man do decide on his own! I would delete that comment if I was you.....
Hi, it's a very good job. I was thinking to use a bluetooth laser meter that sends the values automatically to the excel sheet. Do you or anybody knows the way to connect the meter to the PC and to the Excel?
I would add small rollers in the bottom plate of the risers part, to make sure the tension is 5kg. If you start trimming a wing a wing that has no loops on the maillons, I guess you have to try all line lengths to match the most shrunk line, since it won't be possible to match to the average shrink (since the latter would involve lengthening some lines)?
Figures that you would come up, when I look for a rail system... :-D Pro Tip: If you spend a bit more on the laser, it will bluetooth it directly into the excel sheet and jump to the next line... Fuck entering like 160 line lenghts by hand... ^^ Also less chance for error and WAY!!! quicker!!!
One more after watching it: The most important thing when interpreting the line lengths: You need VISUAL representation of how the wing stands! The numbers could all be fine and the profile still fucked! That's essentially the message from this video, I linked directly to the part where you see example of what visual could look like: ruclips.net/video/y2eq-T5rYf4/видео.html Leave it to us Germans to take it way over the top... ^^ The dude knows what he is talking about... He's the one that convinced me I'd need to measure my wing myself if I want to make sure I have the best trim. Already been screwed over twice by "professional" trim services... Then again, they fight each other on check prices so hard, how could you expect good work? I'd love to have a check service that is 50-100 Euro more, but non-plus-ultra trim wise...
"The numbers could all be fine and the profile still fucked! " I don't understand how. If the line lengths are all correct what would mess up the profile? Canopy material issue?
Good to see your design Andre and nice to see you have a workshop sorted out. Looking forward to seeing what you build! I was worried about having wood sliding against wood when I built mine as I thought the friction might have an effect. I'm guessing that you are assuming that this effect is constant for each measurement so can be ignored? Any thoughts on measuring the brake fan with your design? One of the features that I think actually turned out to be a disadvantage on my setup was that I could move the target so I could then put an extra line through the brake handle attachment to anchor it to the "target shuttle" and then clamp the target at the brake attachment point to zero everything out. I guess on your design you could always do similar and then figure out the distance added and take this off all your measurements?
Hey Ross, yes I think friction might have an effect and I will oil/wax the rubbing surfaces a bit to make it less and easier to use too. For the brakes I just put that same bold through the brake knot and measure it like that
@@AndreBandarra1 I put the brake handle through the same position as the riser position, then changed the values on the spreadsheet by the handle length under 5kg load
I finally replicated your jig but from 10mm material. Also realized that your jig on the video has reflection plate on the left and laser on the right. Did you accidently assemble them wrong? Blueprint is correct and professional though. Thank you.
you're right, I've just noticed that now on the video but don't remember why. For sure they need to be on the same side otherwise you induce diagonal measurement error
@@AndreBandarra1 I bet you noticed it while doing actual line check. I see you brought up that reflector plate to actually do measurements. And even with diagonal measurements your results came not too bad.
I‘ve read in one of the last thermik magazines, that’s a bigger tension of 20kilo (if I remember correctly) is better to ensure the core of a sheated line actually gets tensioned and thus measured correctly
There are some practical issues with tensioning to 20kg. even at 5k you finish checking a glider and your tendons in your hands hurt. 20kg would be really really hard. The in flight tension in pretty much any single line in a paraglider is less than 20kg too
You are right, I misremembered, the article suggested 10 Kilo. By the way, the suggestion is from Michael Nesler, who is currently the designer of Swing Paragliders if I‘m not mistaken.
You would have heard "20kg" from when people use to stretch lines, then 20kg was used. The consensus was that stretching lines is a temporary fix, and that those you stretch will shrink again, so better to just shorten the ones which did not stretch (usually the As and Bs). I stand to be corrected but the 5kg is just to make sure the line is fully extended, and I have seen some service centers use a lighter weight but then have all the lines lay flat on a surface and not sag under their own weight.
Good job Andre. How long does it take to measure all the lines with your system? And there is no rail or bearing to slide the lasermeter holding part. Does it slide freely, or do you remove some weight to overcome friction? Last week I also measured the lines with relative to each other. So I took the closest line to average and measured the others with tape measure relatively. I think it is very similar to what you did at the last part and it took about 1,5 hours. (Actually I measure one side than checked the symmetry later) I wonder what you think about relative measuring?
Yet another great project from the mind of Andre. Thanks amigo. I like the use of SketchUp as well. Nice tool. One thing I was wondering about is the actual replacement/repair of the lines. are you able to splice lines back together, or is it better to buy new ones for safety? If you're putting together one of your home sewn tester wings (the ones using SingleSkin app) how are you going to connect the lines where they join? You can create a loop and then loop the other end through (double loop connection), but it seems this would cause to bulky a joint. How do you splice single riser line into three where they branch? (Yet another project for you, haha).
NIce vid Andre! very helpful to me because I am setting up a pg repair and test shop, so I am going to use your jig on every test. Now where do you find the line lenght info for every glider? I am having a hard time with some older gliders because it is dificult to me to find proper information. great video nice shop!
Hi, looked up your clip here and this really great what you did. i would like to ask you if possible to get from you all the wood cutting measurement ?
Happy to help fund your projects, not too sure about patreon. Would you be happy to sell your design and I'll pay through PayPal? Want to make one myself. Thanks 👍
I made a line measuring tool a few years back and I've had a go at putting links to pictures in my dropbox. I used scrap ally channel that was used for sliding windows. I did buy a laser measure but in the end decided to chop up an old steel tape measure and fix that into the jig. www.dropbox.com/s/t4g1r8o77iqtcvd/img_0707.jpg?dl=0 . The next picture shows the other end where the maillon fits and the switch the maillon holder bumps up against to indicate when the measurement should be read www.dropbox.com/s/6xtjohx7ddkeegm/img_0710.jpg?dl=0 . Other pictures www.dropbox.com/s/u29ow3nmhzxvw1s/img_0711.jpg?dl=0 and www.dropbox.com/s/ssbf695avauig4t/img_0709.jpg?dl=0 . The spreadsheet www.dropbox.com/s/rafjbmzs3d0ium5/Screen%20Shot%202019-08-17%20at%2016.17.48.png?dl=0 . I think the sheet is pretty much self explanatory but for the 'Adjusted' rows, these are all linked to the 'Actual Length Adjustment' box, top right. a plus or minus figure can be entered here to jack all the results up or down in one hit. The trouble with my machine is the space needed to set it up. Hope this all looks okay when I hit the COMMENT button.
Just recently made my own measuring rig, checked my Base and adjusted one side as it was out on A's and B's by 10mm. After adjustment all was very close.
Really happy I did it myself. I think as a pilot, understanding your wing is important.
I know it is kinda randomly asking but do anyone know of a good site to watch newly released movies online?
@Blaine Tripp Thank you, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I appreciate it!!
@Isaiah Dante No problem :D
I absolutely love the the jig and idea. I have been considering opening a repair shop and getting a repair/dealer license. This is the behind the scenes stuff I love about this sport... thanks for always trying new and fun things!!
ahmd abdallah I have no idea why you commented that but don’t try to put your religion on anyone! That’s for each man do decide on his own! I would delete that comment if I was you.....
wow great idea! Btw..love your sawing machine 😍
Lovely project
A wave of envy ran through me when I saw your workshop
It's been years in the making and haven't had one for almost a year since we moved. You can definitely little by little build your own too
Nice vid. It inspired me to build my own rig. I am not such a craftsman so I try to go with-ball bearing drawer rails.
Nice work. Also like your saw adapters :) pretty smart
Thanks :) it's all about jigs! :D the saw and jigs where all handmade too
@@AndreBandarra1 yeah that's what i meant by 'adapters' :) just took a blank saw and made all around it yourself
LOve that video! found your profile by a coincident , glad I did!
Awesome, welcome to the family! :D
super ton projet 😍... un jour je vais en faire un . @ bientôt Andre
Merci Thierry
Hi, it's a very good job. I was thinking to use a bluetooth laser meter that sends the values automatically to the excel sheet. Do you or anybody knows the way to connect the meter to the PC and to the Excel?
I would add small rollers in the bottom plate of the risers part, to make sure the tension is 5kg. If you start trimming a wing a wing that has no loops on the maillons, I guess you have to try all line lengths to match the most shrunk line, since it won't be possible to match to the average shrink (since the latter would involve lengthening some lines)?
Figures that you would come up, when I look for a rail system... :-D Pro Tip: If you spend a bit more on the laser, it will bluetooth it directly into the excel sheet and jump to the next line... Fuck entering like 160 line lenghts by hand... ^^ Also less chance for error and WAY!!! quicker!!!
Thanks for a great informative video
One more after watching it: The most important thing when interpreting the line lengths: You need VISUAL representation of how the wing stands! The numbers could all be fine and the profile still fucked! That's essentially the message from this video, I linked directly to the part where you see example of what visual could look like:
ruclips.net/video/y2eq-T5rYf4/видео.html
Leave it to us Germans to take it way over the top... ^^ The dude knows what he is talking about... He's the one that convinced me I'd need to measure my wing myself if I want to make sure I have the best trim. Already been screwed over twice by "professional" trim services... Then again, they fight each other on check prices so hard, how could you expect good work? I'd love to have a check service that is 50-100 Euro more, but non-plus-ultra trim wise...
"The numbers could all be fine and the profile still fucked! " I don't understand how. If the line lengths are all correct what would mess up the profile? Canopy material issue?
Good to see your design Andre and nice to see you have a workshop sorted out. Looking forward to seeing what you build!
I was worried about having wood sliding against wood when I built mine as I thought the friction might have an effect. I'm guessing that you are assuming that this effect is constant for each measurement so can be ignored?
Any thoughts on measuring the brake fan with your design? One of the features that I think actually turned out to be a disadvantage on my setup was that I could move the target so I could then put an extra line through the brake handle attachment to anchor it to the "target shuttle" and then clamp the target at the brake attachment point to zero everything out. I guess on your design you could always do similar and then figure out the distance added and take this off all your measurements?
Hey Ross, yes I think friction might have an effect and I will oil/wax the rubbing surfaces a bit to make it less and easier to use too.
For the brakes I just put that same bold through the brake knot and measure it like that
@@AndreBandarra1 I put the brake handle through the same position as the riser position, then changed the values on the spreadsheet by the handle length under 5kg load
@@AndreBandarra1 Bees wax or candle wax has always worked well on drawers so, should work for you.
Does the reflector really have to sit in the middle of the risers loop or should it be at the very end of the risers?
Very cool project as usual! Nice to see the channel growing (you've even got yourself the disgruntled dislikers now, apparently! Sign of success! :D)
Thanks for the very useful video and the knowledge that you have that you share. Do you mind sharing the spreadsheet that you use? Thanks!
I didn’t share it as I wasn’t really happy with it. Next time I do one I will
I finally replicated your jig but from 10mm material. Also realized that your jig on the video has reflection plate on the left and laser on the right. Did you accidently assemble them wrong? Blueprint is correct and professional though. Thank you.
you're right, I've just noticed that now on the video but don't remember why. For sure they need to be on the same side otherwise you induce diagonal measurement error
@@AndreBandarra1 I bet you noticed it while doing actual line check. I see you brought up that reflector plate to actually do measurements. And even with diagonal measurements your results came not too bad.
I‘ve read in one of the last thermik magazines, that’s a bigger tension of 20kilo (if I remember correctly) is better to ensure the core of a sheated line actually gets tensioned and thus measured correctly
There are some practical issues with tensioning to 20kg. even at 5k you finish checking a glider and your tendons in your hands hurt. 20kg would be really really hard. The in flight tension in pretty much any single line in a paraglider is less than 20kg too
You are right, I misremembered, the article suggested 10 Kilo. By the way, the suggestion is from Michael Nesler, who is currently the designer of Swing Paragliders if I‘m not mistaken.
You would have heard "20kg" from when people use to stretch lines, then 20kg was used. The consensus was that stretching lines is a temporary fix, and that those you stretch will shrink again, so better to just shorten the ones which did not stretch (usually the As and Bs). I stand to be corrected but the 5kg is just to make sure the line is fully extended, and I have seen some service centers use a lighter weight but then have all the lines lay flat on a surface and not sag under their own weight.
Interesting stuff!..............Thanks!!
Good job Andre. How long does it take to measure all the lines with your system? And there is no rail or bearing to slide the lasermeter holding part. Does it slide freely, or do you remove some weight to overcome friction?
Last week I also measured the lines with relative to each other. So I took the closest line to average and measured the others with tape measure relatively. I think it is very similar to what you did at the last part and it took about 1,5 hours. (Actually I measure one side than checked the symmetry later) I wonder what you think about relative measuring?
I realized that you already had the time question. Can you tell what you think about relative measurement?
great video ! could you share the excel porgram you are using? there are a few arrount but yours look much simpler! thanks!
fantastic design, any chance I can have a copy of the solidworks file ?
great vid
Yet another great project from the mind of Andre. Thanks amigo. I like the use of SketchUp as well. Nice tool.
One thing I was wondering about is the actual replacement/repair of the lines. are you able to splice lines back together, or is it better to buy new ones for safety? If you're putting together one of your home sewn tester wings (the ones using SingleSkin app) how are you going to connect the lines where they join? You can create a loop and then loop the other end through (double loop connection), but it seems this would cause to bulky a joint. How do you splice single riser line into three where they branch? (Yet another project for you, haha).
Well, I've already started on that and there will be a video on it at some point you can bet :)
NIce vid Andre! very helpful to me because I am setting up a pg repair and test shop, so I am going to use your jig on every test. Now where do you find the line lenght info for every glider? I am having a hard time with some older gliders because it is dificult to me to find proper information.
great video nice shop!
Hi Seba, thanks and good luck. No sure about the info, I would ask the manufacturer
Hi, looked up your clip here and this really great what you did. i would like to ask you if possible to get from you all the wood cutting measurement ?
all there, just pause the video ruclips.net/video/0sWBvgfqcA4/видео.html
How about a foot pedal with pulley to the laser device sled to help take the pull stress off your hands/arms?
It's a nice idea!
how can finde data sheet for my paraglider
Email manufacturer there ymused to be nice website para 2000 sadly is not online anymore
Great :)
How long did it take to measure the Glider?
Hmm, it was my first one so it was slow, but I would say around an hour? hard on tour tendons though, need to reduce friction on my system
Happy to help fund your projects, not too sure about patreon. Would you be happy to sell your design and I'll pay through PayPal? Want to make one myself. Thanks 👍
hi there, you video is really helpful and great i think, would you mind if you share it and post it on my website?
sure
I made a line measuring tool a few years back and I've had a go at putting links to pictures in my dropbox. I used scrap ally channel that was used for sliding windows. I did buy a laser measure but in the end decided to chop up an old steel tape measure and fix that into the jig. www.dropbox.com/s/t4g1r8o77iqtcvd/img_0707.jpg?dl=0 . The next picture shows the other end where the maillon fits and the switch the maillon holder bumps up against to indicate when the measurement should be read www.dropbox.com/s/6xtjohx7ddkeegm/img_0710.jpg?dl=0 . Other pictures www.dropbox.com/s/u29ow3nmhzxvw1s/img_0711.jpg?dl=0 and www.dropbox.com/s/ssbf695avauig4t/img_0709.jpg?dl=0 . The spreadsheet www.dropbox.com/s/rafjbmzs3d0ium5/Screen%20Shot%202019-08-17%20at%2016.17.48.png?dl=0 . I think the sheet is pretty much self explanatory but for the 'Adjusted' rows, these are all linked to the 'Actual Length Adjustment' box, top right. a plus or minus figure can be entered here to jack all the results up or down in one hit. The trouble with my machine is the space needed to set it up. Hope this all looks okay when I hit the COMMENT button.
Very cool, thanks for sharing Frank!