[ 7:31 ] Excellent. I would add that the reason the 'negative angle' part of the stroke works is that the blade is still locked - caught - in the water mass, as it passes vertical. As the transition from positive to negative angle occurs, the paddler switches from pulling with the bottom _tracting_ arm, to pressing down-and-aft with the top arm and hand. So, during the negative angle phase of the stroke, with the blade still anchored in the water mass, the paddler is essentially pulling his hip toward his top hand, as the latter swivels down-and-aft - much like poling a boat, or pole vaulting. The common misconception that the negative angle part of the stroke does not contribute to forward motion stems from the belief that the paddle is pushing water toward the back when, in reality, the paddler is essentially pulling him or herself toward the blade's locked-in position, together with the canoe. Note: Shell Va'a, the world's preeminent Tahitihan outrigger canoe team, notoriously uses a stroke type dubbed the Huti Pa'ari ( meaning 'hard pull' in Tahitian ), which is far in front, as well as _maximally far_ in back.
Outstanding advice even at 10 years old. Wish he’d cover timing on strokers, a bit. Also, keeping paddles vertical & “slipping” them forward at the very end. Re: Paddling Biomechanics. Having taken a course in college while training in martial arts & now a team sr coach & steer (+past captain), I’m fairly confident saying that for useful biomechanics assessments, you really need coaches who minimally have had formal (coursework or interactive) studies in kinesiology.
Having taken a course in college while training in martial arts & now a team sr coach & steer (+past captain), I’m fairly confident saying that for useful biomechanics assessments, you really need coaches who minimally have had formal (coursework or interactive) studies in kinesiology.
my leg on the side of the boat is always on a bent/sitting position, and my glute on that side always hurts as hell in the middle of boating... is it some kind of biomechanic mistake or i simply need a seat pad?
Hi there and thanks for this great instructional video. My question is whether this information is still valid in 2019. I've been coaching for the past 10 years, and previously paddled in a number of State teams and the Aus Squad in 2009. Recently I've had a club member compete in the State squad and a number of members paddling with regional conglomerate teams or other club teams. Word is coming back to me that the 'technique' has 'changed' and 'they' are now promoting lunging with both feet forward rather than rotating as described in this video. Would appreciate anyone's response.
In my experience (in the USA), a lot of the top coaches advocate both feet forward, and some don't care too much if just the outside foot is forward. I very rarely encounter a coach who teaches inside foot forward.
@@SettleNow Hey there! thanks for replying. 'Back in the day' we were taught outside foot forward so that you get full body power on the stroke. I've tried the both feet version and personally I can't get the power coming through from the heel. I've been searching the net for a biomechanics explanation of the differences to no avail. It seems to me that both feet forward causes more of a lunge than rotation, which I understand is not good for the lower back. If any of the top coaches could explain or direct me to an explanation I would be most grateful.
@@marietbertoli FWIW I will tell you my thoughts. The only route for force to reach the water passes through your outside shoulder. For your inside leg to power that your core has to do an awful lot of work just to not lose any of the force being routed through your inside hip. I think your body can more efficiently get the force coming through your outside hip to the paddle. So I let paddlers use outside foot forward. I used to have them put the inside foot back. For several years I have let them put that foot up or back and encourage them to try both positions and get comfortable with both. I don't see any problem for your lower back, if it is healthy and if you keep it stable. That is, if you significantly arch your lower back, I can see that potentially being problematic. If your spine remains neutral and braced, like it would in a deadlift, I think you are unlikely to have problems. I am not a doctor, and have no degrees in kinesthesiology or the like, and your mileage may vary.
This technique has been modified mostly through the incredibly efficient Tahitian paddling style in outrigger canoes. I mean really, paddling at 65 strokes a minute for 8 hours means you have to be doing something right! Lot's of RUclips videos on this technique. The primary difference is a side exit and entrance, less reach, and a longer stroke through the hip with a very fast return.
We should perhaps come up with a more precise definition of what constitutes the 'negative angle' part of the stroke. Is 'neutral' defined by the verticality of the haft ( as suggested by the graphic in the video ), the verticality of the blade in the water ( accounting for the fact that most paddles have angled blades, and many have bent hafts as well ), or maybe by the verticality of the bottom tracting arm? This is further complicated by the fact that the blade, or haft, is not vertical in the same location, depending on whether the paddler is leaning forward or sitting upright. I propose the following _subjective_ definition for 'neutral' - the junction between the so-called 'positive' and 'negative angle' phase of the stroke: _Neutral_ is the transition point at which the paddler switches from primarily pulling the paddle with the bottom tracting arm, to primarily pressing down-and-aft with the top arm and hand. In the case of a paddler sitting upright ( as opposed to leaning forward ), bottom arm fully extended, and top arm partially bent ( about 70 ±15° ), 'neutral' should be about when the blade is near the front-edge of the seat. When sitting upright in that stance, at neutral, the haft is tilted forward about 30 degrees, top hand resting on the pommel, hovering mid-chest about 18" from the torso, while the bottom arm is fully extended, angling forward about 4 or 5 degrees from vertical. Any movement aft from that position requires mostly a press by the top arm and hand, and is therefore in negative angle territory, whereas anywhere forward from that neutral position is considered positive angle.
Awesome ....I am just starting out so this helps heaps! I reckon 3rd time will be even luckier thanks to your guidance! Cheers
[ 7:31 ] Excellent. I would add that the reason the 'negative angle' part of the stroke works is that the blade is still locked - caught - in the water mass, as it passes vertical. As the transition from positive to negative angle occurs, the paddler switches from pulling with the bottom _tracting_ arm, to pressing down-and-aft with the top arm and hand. So, during the negative angle phase of the stroke, with the blade still anchored in the water mass, the paddler is essentially pulling his hip toward his top hand, as the latter swivels down-and-aft - much like poling a boat, or pole vaulting. The common misconception that the negative angle part of the stroke does not contribute to forward motion stems from the belief that the paddle is pushing water toward the back when, in reality, the paddler is essentially pulling him or herself toward the blade's locked-in position, together with the canoe. Note: Shell Va'a, the world's preeminent Tahitihan outrigger canoe team, notoriously uses a stroke type dubbed the Huti Pa'ari ( meaning 'hard pull' in Tahitian ), which is far in front, as well as _maximally far_ in back.
Great explanation for everything!
thanks sir it helps a lot! God bless!
awesome video, thanks!
Thank you. Very informative :)
Very helpful thanks for this video
Thanks a lot!
excellent video
thankyou
Outstanding advice even at 10 years old. Wish he’d cover timing on strokers, a bit. Also, keeping paddles vertical & “slipping” them forward at the very end.
Re: Paddling Biomechanics. Having taken a course in college while training in martial arts & now a team sr coach & steer (+past captain), I’m fairly confident saying that for useful biomechanics assessments, you really need coaches who minimally have had formal (coursework or interactive) studies in kinesiology.
Is there a wasy to be analysed to correct biomichanical breakdowns and how to fix.
Having taken a course in college while training in martial arts & now a team sr coach & steer (+past captain), I’m fairly confident saying that for useful biomechanics assessments, you really need coaches who minimally have had formal (coursework or interactive) studies in kinesiology.
my leg on the side of the boat is always on a bent/sitting position, and my glute on that side always hurts as hell in the middle of boating... is it some kind of biomechanic mistake or i simply need a seat pad?
If you’re not getting a blister on your inner hip side without a pad you might not be anchored well.
Hi there and thanks for this great instructional video. My question is whether this information is still valid in 2019. I've been coaching for the past 10 years, and previously paddled in a number of State teams and the Aus Squad in 2009. Recently I've had a club member compete in the State squad and a number of members paddling with regional conglomerate teams or other club teams. Word is coming back to me that the 'technique' has 'changed' and 'they' are now promoting lunging with both feet forward rather than rotating as described in this video. Would appreciate anyone's response.
In my experience (in the USA), a lot of the top coaches advocate both feet forward, and some don't care too much if just the outside foot is forward. I very rarely encounter a coach who teaches inside foot forward.
@@SettleNow Hey there! thanks for replying. 'Back in the day' we were taught outside foot forward so that you get full body power on the stroke. I've tried the both feet version and personally I can't get the power coming through from the heel. I've been searching the net for a biomechanics explanation of the differences to no avail. It seems to me that both feet forward causes more of a lunge than rotation, which I understand is not good for the lower back. If any of the top coaches could explain or direct me to an explanation I would be most grateful.
@@marietbertoli FWIW I will tell you my thoughts. The only route for force to reach the water passes through your outside shoulder. For your inside leg to power that your core has to do an awful lot of work just to not lose any of the force being routed through your inside hip. I think your body can more efficiently get the force coming through your outside hip to the paddle. So I let paddlers use outside foot forward. I used to have them put the inside foot back. For several years I have let them put that foot up or back and encourage them to try both positions and get comfortable with both. I don't see any problem for your lower back, if it is healthy and if you keep it stable. That is, if you significantly arch your lower back, I can see that potentially being problematic. If your spine remains neutral and braced, like it would in a deadlift, I think you are unlikely to have problems. I am not a doctor, and have no degrees in kinesthesiology or the like, and your mileage may vary.
This technique has been modified mostly through the incredibly efficient Tahitian paddling style in outrigger canoes. I mean really, paddling at 65 strokes a minute for 8 hours means you have to be doing something right! Lot's of RUclips videos on this technique. The primary difference is a side exit and entrance, less reach, and a longer stroke through the hip with a very fast return.
Have you heard about kerala boat race.. Snake boat race..
❤
We should perhaps come up with a more precise definition of what constitutes the 'negative angle' part of the stroke. Is 'neutral' defined by the verticality of the haft ( as suggested by the graphic in the video ), the verticality of the blade in the water ( accounting for the fact that most paddles have angled blades, and many have bent hafts as well ), or maybe by the verticality of the bottom tracting arm? This is further complicated by the fact that the blade, or haft, is not vertical in the same location, depending on whether the paddler is leaning forward or sitting upright.
I propose the following _subjective_ definition for 'neutral' - the junction between the so-called 'positive' and 'negative angle' phase of the stroke: _Neutral_ is the transition point at which the paddler switches from primarily pulling the paddle with the bottom tracting arm, to primarily pressing down-and-aft with the top arm and hand. In the case of a paddler sitting upright ( as opposed to leaning forward ), bottom arm fully extended, and top arm partially bent ( about 70 ±15° ), 'neutral' should be about when the blade is near the front-edge of the seat. When sitting upright in that stance, at neutral, the haft is tilted forward about 30 degrees, top hand resting on the pommel, hovering mid-chest about 18" from the torso, while the bottom arm is fully extended, angling forward about 4 or 5 degrees from vertical. Any movement aft from that position requires mostly a press by the top arm and hand, and is therefore in negative angle territory, whereas anywhere forward from that neutral position is considered positive angle.
Paddle Salute
Legall