In recent videos I've been asking if modular synth has an image problem, why and what can be done to change that? In this final video of three I continue the discussion and also ponder the future of modular synthesis.
I don’t know if this will make you feel any better but in the heyday of cbgb, all those legendary bands that played there … those shows never sold out and were only ever attended by less than 100 people the majority of the time. Nowadays people would die to see blondie and the talking heads in the same night. Just some food for thought , the scene size doesn’t matter, the energy does
It seems like I’ve seen a lot of videos that say that live music is struggling in general outside of large, mainstream artists. You touched on the issue of venues struggling but this may also be a sign of spending more time online instead of leaving the house to see a show? Modular is just a tool/instrument/means to an end. If there’s a specific music scene where you live and you make music on your modular that speaks to that scene, I think people will show up regardless of what the sound comes out of. There really isn’t a thriving music scene where I live so it’s a little sad. There is a local modular group that gets together monthly but I feel like all of the cool little venues that would always have live music have kinda dried up. That’s a long way of saying IMO this is bigger than modular and is a reflection of the death of the small music venue/show/underground scene… at least what I’ve observed in my area in the last 20 years or so.
I think you're right. Perhaps the death of the small music venue goes alongside the collapse of the music industry as whole, at least the part of the music industry that involved actual musicians making actual music for actual people to listen to.
@ I still have hope though. Everything is cyclical and I think people will actually realize that human interaction and things made by people with all of their quirks and flaws are a really important part of the human experience. We all just need to realize we have that power to change things. What’s that quote? “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams…” Cheers!
This is true. I do wonder though if we are at the end of an era, you know, how other forms of music died out and have become merely niche nostalgia, like swing bands etc. I watched an interesting video a while ago that discussed how recorded music eventually became the death knell of improvised performance which had been the norm previously. As audiences slowly began expect to hear the same performance on the recordings at live gigs. If we are at the end of an era though, I'm sure whatever comes next will not like anything we can imagine. I still have hope though!
I think the answer comes down to social circles, and those turn largely on history and urban density. I have lived in several cities and the music scenes have varied quite a bit. In two cities there were small but stable scenes where experimental music was promoted. Some modular people fit in, some didn’t. Now my closest city has unusually rich support for synth in general and modular in particular, but it appears harder to find experimental scenes.
Modular would become more widespread if there was a standard mod matrix / preset system, so that modules could be wired up internally, so people could create custom synthesizers without the need for all the cable mess and with the ability to save / load patches. That's the main thing that holds modular back from widespread adoption.
I think there is a story to be told about modular and the pandemic. During that time I bought loads of modules and learned how they all worked and made a few RUclips videos. I also started playing the ukulele. Since that time I have started teaching the ukulele and have formed a ukulele club that meets once a week. I haven’t found the same community with modular and as a result I don’t use my modular as much and enjoy it far less. The pandemic was a very solitary time and maybe modular suited that…
That's a really interesting point. I think the pandemic saw a lot of people picking up new hobbies at home and modular was definitely part of that too. That's when I first got into it as well. A really interesting thought though on whether it might've seen a dip in popularity since then as people have come back to normal life and the idea of it being more suited to working solitarily. For me that was part of the attraction as I found myself in a position where I was unable to commit to being in a band (which is still the case to a certain extent), the modular became my band.
Vince Clarke said he left Depeche Mode once he realised he could use sequencers and didn’t need to be in a band. I think for me though, I would be more into modular if the was a modular community where I live that I could feel a part of. There may be modular enthusiasts where I live (Portsmouth UK) but I don’t know of any.
I feel this a problem for electronic music in general. I don't see many venues putting on electronic artists at grassroots level. You could probably go to any town in the country and find venues putting on unsigned band nights or open mic nights, but not so for electronic music. I often wonder why that is? Is it just that electronic musicians post their music online and don't go out playing gigs? Not sure what the answer is.
Possibly because there isn’t much of an audience for it. What passes for experimental electronic music is often quite hard to listen to. Of course there is generally nothing experimental about it. In the 50s and early 60s it might have been experimental but these days, now that the questions posed by early pioneers have largely been answered and explored I don’t see what the experiment is with modern modular music that claims that title. What I like about modular is the community that has built up around it, and its openness to all but, as I said, I can’t find that community in Portsmouth. So I’m grateful to people like you who are posting discussions about it. Thanks 🙏
I think even for non-experimental music it's hard to find venues putting anything on, maybe as you say there isn't the audience for it, or it's just easier to put bands on. In terms of experimental music, I feel in some ways the term as become a generic catchall to describe music that is non-commercial and often difficult to listen to, whether any actual experimentation has gone into or not. I think actuall experimentation is still alive and well but is maybe based more around computer music than anything produced on a modular system, or perhaps the experimentation comes in more of the creative process rather than the actual music or sounds. Maybe the experiment is seeing whether anyone will actually listen to it 😂😂😂
I agree with you. And I wish there was more modular synth events I could go to. Not much going on in Essex to my knowledge. Indeed it’s a good thing to get the word out.
Live is just tough now, unless you have an established community or venue that attracts people. I remember seeing Mika Vainio, who was an old friend, at the modern art museum in Helsinki, and it was packed. Maybe not exactly modular, but close enough for me. But that was a while back, obviously. Now 99% of my listening starts with RUclips, and then if I like it enough, and they have published works, to Apple Music. Educationally, generic how to for dummies that goes beyond here's an ADSR. I think getting too specific with modules, makes it hard to see the concepts. One cool thing recently happened to me. I was having a hard time with a basic generative patch, and left a comment. The guy made me a walkthrough video that I was able to replicate. Then I sent my version back to him on RUclips. So cool things like that can happen.
You've just reinvented the talkie. I can't speak to the question of modular's "image problem" but I am interested in the music and community. I'll probably never be able to afford the hardware but I've recently started to dabble with Hexen Eurorack and it's super fun and interesting. I'm not sure why I settled on Hexen but I'll definitely be checking out VCV Rack as well. Initially, I felt like the kid with the peanut butter and margarine sandy while everyone else at the modular lunch table has ham, cheese and chutney or sushi or something. But who cares? I'll have fun and learn something just by being in the room. I'm enjoying tinkering and synth music has a rich history to dive into. Do I write like effing Chat GTP? Cheers.
Haha, I can tell you that video took several attempts due to various technical failures! Maybe I should do more 'talkies' 🤣 As long as you're enjoying it, doesn't really matter what you use!
Things take time. Modular synthesis, has been around awhile .. but, the canvas is pretty vast. Even the small collection that I have, is harder to use, than I had hoped .. but that also could mean there's "hope" for more powerful results, when I do start to get the knack, in the different layers of what to do. Sometimes, just a wavetable sound, and having some simple CV modulators shape this sound, can be rewarding. But, this might not be "music" for some audiences. So, to advance, a bit .. musical counterpoint. 2, (or more) separate voices, that are not necessarily closely linked, but are perhaps just distant cousins. Composers like Bach, used this tool, frequently. One modular example, .. MI Beads, and MI Rings, slaving off the same clocking source, .. or, one or both slaving off of MI Marbles. They're playing different routines, .. and yet, fiddling around the settings, and, after a time, pretty nice things can happen. The whole being quite a bit larger, than the sum.
There can be an awful lot of satisfaction had from the type of simple patches you've described. But also I think the comparison to past composers goes further. Most (if not all) of the great composers would create hundreds of works many of which were simple studies or exercises - short musical pieces intended to explore or study certain ideas or techniques. Later these pieces became the basis for study when taking instrumental lessons. In essence what your describing is a similar thing whereby the simple patch allows you to explore/study one or two modules to understand their capabilities. Over time these 'study' patches will lead to greater understanding of how to work with your setup
@@justrichardcharles Mhmm, .. "simple studies or excercises" .. the addition of the 2nd voice .. and something starts becoming powerful. Marbles, (there's others, too, I'm sure) .. a very cleverly designed gadget. But, .. it does take some patience.
I think you could've done more to connect much of this to the topic of "the future". Like, there is a connection between the health of thy venue business and modular, but you didn't really draw it out.
Thanks for the feedback. It's a tricky one, I think I went off on a bit of an unintended tangent at one point (probably at many points). I usually do the videos in one take, but this one took several goes. It may be a topic to revisit further down the road.
Its outdated for decades now and still you find fantastic artists again and again. But yea the representation is very little. What is about Bandcamp?`Isnt it really fair to small artists?
I think its an extreme consumerism product and the sensation of novelty is wearing off, market looks over saturated. Even in my local second hand ads website i see several people that started about 2020 offering their whole system for sale. And its became very hard to sell modules, stuff that was sold within days two or three years ago sits unsold for months. I think its coming to an end, only a few fans will stay with it. And how is being "musical" an argument for its value ? I think it is an extreme luxury hobby item for making weird noises in nerdy ways and thats as ok as the guy buying a Harley in his midlife crisis.
I'd say that's a little bit of a harsh assessment. People getting into modular in 2020 is the covid effect. All sorts of hobbies and interests saw a spike then as everyone was stuck at home with nothing to do. To many people, modular probably looked cool and fun. Fast forward a couple of years and they realise it's harder than they thought and are not seeing the results they hoped for and so abandoned it. This is also happened in many other niches. The reason it's harder to sell secondhand now is because no one wants to buy a complete system, it's much better to buy individual modules. But also we have a cost of living crisis and possibly on the verge of another massive global recession. No one has any money, and things are not selling as easily as they used to across the board. I can't see how you can argue that something being 'musical' is not valuable. Don't quite understand what you're saying there. One thing I do agree with is that it is a luxury. And anyone that has the time or funds to get into it is very fortunate, but that could be said of any musical instrument too.
@justrichardcharles The opposite, I like making weird noise in nerdy ways, I don't understand why that is an image problem. It is not really a useful musical instrument, I always find it funny people talking about "tuning and quantizing", I don't think about it in musical terms like pitch.
That's a fair point. But music can still be musical without tuning and pitch I would say. There's plenty of abstract and Avant Garde music which is like that. I think that's where modular actually excels. You can do all the nice pretty ambient stuff with it, but you can do crazy almost experimental stuff too. It's still music, just not mainstream or commercial.
In recent videos I've been asking if modular synth has an image problem, why and what can be done to change that? In this final video of three I continue the discussion and also ponder the future of modular synthesis.
I don’t know if this will make you feel any better but in the heyday of cbgb, all those legendary bands that played there … those shows never sold out and were only ever attended by less than 100 people the majority of the time. Nowadays people would die to see blondie and the talking heads in the same night. Just some food for thought , the scene size doesn’t matter, the energy does
It seems like I’ve seen a lot of videos that say that live music is struggling in general outside of large, mainstream artists. You touched on the issue of venues struggling but this may also be a sign of spending more time online instead of leaving the house to see a show? Modular is just a tool/instrument/means to an end. If there’s a specific music scene where you live and you make music on your modular that speaks to that scene, I think people will show up regardless of what the sound comes out of. There really isn’t a thriving music scene where I live so it’s a little sad. There is a local modular group that gets together monthly but I feel like all of the cool little venues that would always have live music have kinda dried up. That’s a long way of saying IMO this is bigger than modular and is a reflection of the death of the small music venue/show/underground scene… at least what I’ve observed in my area in the last 20 years or so.
I think you're right. Perhaps the death of the small music venue goes alongside the collapse of the music industry as whole, at least the part of the music industry that involved actual musicians making actual music for actual people to listen to.
@ I still have hope though. Everything is cyclical and I think people will actually realize that human interaction and things made by people with all of their quirks and flaws are a really important part of the human experience. We all just need to realize we have that power to change things. What’s that quote? “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams…” Cheers!
This is true. I do wonder though if we are at the end of an era, you know, how other forms of music died out and have become merely niche nostalgia, like swing bands etc. I watched an interesting video a while ago that discussed how recorded music eventually became the death knell of improvised performance which had been the norm previously. As audiences slowly began expect to hear the same performance on the recordings at live gigs.
If we are at the end of an era though, I'm sure whatever comes next will not like anything we can imagine. I still have hope though!
I think the answer comes down to social circles, and those turn largely on history and urban density. I have lived in several cities and the music scenes have varied quite a bit. In two cities there were small but stable scenes where experimental music was promoted. Some modular people fit in, some didn’t. Now my closest city has unusually rich support for synth in general and modular in particular, but it appears harder to find experimental scenes.
That's quite interesting, maybe the answer is to try and set something up if there isn't anything locally.But that's a lot of work potentially.
Modular would become more widespread if there was a standard mod matrix / preset system, so that modules could be wired up internally, so people could create custom synthesizers without the need for all the cable mess and with the ability to save / load patches. That's the main thing that holds modular back from widespread adoption.
Sounds like a lot menu diving. Besides IT already exist - VCV rack.
You’re beginning to discover why people moved on to non modular synths long ago. The best compromise was the vcs 3 or they synthi aks….
I think there is a story to be told about modular and the pandemic. During that time I bought loads of modules and learned how they all worked and made a few RUclips videos. I also started playing the ukulele. Since that time I have started teaching the ukulele and have formed a ukulele club that meets once a week. I haven’t found the same community with modular and as a result I don’t use my modular as much and enjoy it far less. The pandemic was a very solitary time and maybe modular suited that…
That's a really interesting point. I think the pandemic saw a lot of people picking up new hobbies at home and modular was definitely part of that too. That's when I first got into it as well. A really interesting thought though on whether it might've seen a dip in popularity since then as people have come back to normal life and the idea of it being more suited to working solitarily. For me that was part of the attraction as I found myself in a position where I was unable to commit to being in a band (which is still the case to a certain extent), the modular became my band.
Vince Clarke said he left Depeche Mode once he realised he could use sequencers and didn’t need to be in a band. I think for me though, I would be more into modular if the was a modular community where I live that I could feel a part of. There may be modular enthusiasts where I live (Portsmouth UK) but I don’t know of any.
I feel this a problem for electronic music in general. I don't see many venues putting on electronic artists at grassroots level. You could probably go to any town in the country and find venues putting on unsigned band nights or open mic nights, but not so for electronic music. I often wonder why that is? Is it just that electronic musicians post their music online and don't go out playing gigs? Not sure what the answer is.
Possibly because there isn’t much of an audience for it. What passes for experimental electronic music is often quite hard to listen to. Of course there is generally nothing experimental about it. In the 50s and early 60s it might have been experimental but these days, now that the questions posed by early pioneers have largely been answered and explored I don’t see what the experiment is with modern modular music that claims that title. What I like about modular is the community that has built up around it, and its openness to all but, as I said, I can’t find that community in Portsmouth. So I’m grateful to people like you who are posting discussions about it. Thanks 🙏
I think even for non-experimental music it's hard to find venues putting anything on, maybe as you say there isn't the audience for it, or it's just easier to put bands on. In terms of experimental music, I feel in some ways the term as become a generic catchall to describe music that is non-commercial and often difficult to listen to, whether any actual experimentation has gone into or not. I think actuall experimentation is still alive and well but is maybe based more around computer music than anything produced on a modular system, or perhaps the experimentation comes in more of the creative process rather than the actual music or sounds. Maybe the experiment is seeing whether anyone will actually listen to it 😂😂😂
I agree with you. And I wish there was more modular synth events I could go to. Not much going on in Essex to my knowledge. Indeed it’s a good thing to get the word out.
Yeah, I'm not sure there is much going on anywhere? Would be good to see more though
Modularists !
😁
These EMOM nights are popping up now
I had to Google that first, but yes it looks like it and there's one near me!
I did post the official web-site but it never showed up on your feed. Strange
That's weird. Usually I have to approve comments with external links in, but nothing came up. Must be a RUclips glitch
Live is just tough now, unless you have an established community or venue that attracts people. I remember seeing Mika Vainio, who was an old friend, at the modern art museum in Helsinki, and it was packed. Maybe not exactly modular, but close enough for me.
But that was a while back, obviously. Now 99% of my listening starts with RUclips, and then if I like it enough, and they have published works, to Apple Music.
Educationally, generic how to for dummies that goes beyond here's an ADSR. I think getting too specific with modules, makes it hard to see the concepts.
One cool thing recently happened to me. I was having a hard time with a basic generative patch, and left a comment. The guy made me a walkthrough video that I was able to replicate. Then I sent my version back to him on RUclips. So cool things like that can happen.
That's a great interaction there, and very generous with time. We need more people like that.
You said in last video, let the music talk, but its again a talk?
Don't worry it's coming! 😁
Mono Trail has got the best Euro tech videos out there,
You've just reinvented the talkie. I can't speak to the question of modular's "image problem" but I am interested in the music and community. I'll probably never be able to afford the hardware but I've recently started to dabble with Hexen Eurorack and it's super fun and interesting. I'm not sure why I settled on Hexen but I'll definitely be checking out VCV Rack as well. Initially, I felt like the kid with the peanut butter and margarine sandy while everyone else at the modular lunch table has ham, cheese and chutney or sushi or something. But who cares? I'll have fun and learn something just by being in the room. I'm enjoying tinkering and synth music has a rich history to dive into. Do I write like effing Chat GTP? Cheers.
Haha, I can tell you that video took several attempts due to various technical failures! Maybe I should do more 'talkies' 🤣
As long as you're enjoying it, doesn't really matter what you use!
Things take time. Modular synthesis, has been around awhile .. but, the canvas is pretty vast. Even the small collection that I have, is harder to use, than I had hoped .. but that also could mean there's "hope" for more powerful results, when I do start to get the knack, in the different layers of what to do.
Sometimes, just a wavetable sound, and having some simple CV modulators shape this sound, can be rewarding. But, this might not be "music" for some audiences. So, to advance, a bit .. musical counterpoint. 2, (or more) separate voices, that are not necessarily closely linked, but are perhaps just distant cousins. Composers like Bach, used this tool, frequently. One modular example, .. MI Beads, and MI Rings, slaving off the same clocking source, .. or, one or both slaving off of MI Marbles. They're playing different routines, .. and yet, fiddling around the settings, and, after a time, pretty nice things can happen. The whole being quite a bit larger, than the sum.
There can be an awful lot of satisfaction had from the type of simple patches you've described. But also I think the comparison to past composers goes further. Most (if not all) of the great composers would create hundreds of works many of which were simple studies or exercises - short musical pieces intended to explore or study certain ideas or techniques. Later these pieces became the basis for study when taking instrumental lessons. In essence what your describing is a similar thing whereby the simple patch allows you to explore/study one or two modules to understand their capabilities. Over time these 'study' patches will lead to greater understanding of how to work with your setup
@@justrichardcharles Mhmm, .. "simple studies or excercises" .. the addition of the 2nd voice .. and something starts becoming powerful. Marbles, (there's others, too, I'm sure) .. a very cleverly designed gadget. But, .. it does take some patience.
I think you could've done more to connect much of this to the topic of "the future". Like, there is a connection between the health of thy venue business and modular, but you didn't really draw it out.
Thanks for the feedback. It's a tricky one, I think I went off on a bit of an unintended tangent at one point (probably at many points). I usually do the videos in one take, but this one took several goes. It may be a topic to revisit further down the road.
@justrichardcharles as long as you cater your content to me personally, you'll do fine.
I'll bear that in mind then 😂👍
Its outdated for decades now and still you find fantastic artists again and again. But yea the representation is very little. What is about Bandcamp?`Isnt it really fair to small artists?
I think bandcamp is fairer than most platforms. Patreon though also seems to be something a lot of musicians are utilising too
Nope
🤣😂🤣😂
I think its an extreme consumerism product and the sensation of novelty is wearing off, market looks over saturated. Even in my local second hand ads website i see several people that started about 2020 offering their whole system for sale. And its became very hard to sell modules, stuff that was sold within days two or three years ago sits unsold for months. I think its coming to an end, only a few fans will stay with it.
And how is being "musical" an argument for its value ? I think it is an extreme luxury hobby item for making weird noises in nerdy ways and thats as ok as the guy buying a Harley in his midlife crisis.
I'd say that's a little bit of a harsh assessment. People getting into modular in 2020 is the covid effect. All sorts of hobbies and interests saw a spike then as everyone was stuck at home with nothing to do. To many people, modular probably looked cool and fun. Fast forward a couple of years and they realise it's harder than they thought and are not seeing the results they hoped for and so abandoned it. This is also happened in many other niches. The reason it's harder to sell secondhand now is because no one wants to buy a complete system, it's much better to buy individual modules. But also we have a cost of living crisis and possibly on the verge of another massive global recession. No one has any money, and things are not selling as easily as they used to across the board.
I can't see how you can argue that something being 'musical' is not valuable. Don't quite understand what you're saying there. One thing I do agree with is that it is a luxury. And anyone that has the time or funds to get into it is very fortunate, but that could be said of any musical instrument too.
@justrichardcharles The opposite, I like making weird noise in nerdy ways, I don't understand why that is an image problem. It is not really a useful musical instrument, I always find it funny people talking about "tuning and quantizing", I don't think about it in musical terms like pitch.
That's a fair point. But music can still be musical without tuning and pitch I would say. There's plenty of abstract and Avant Garde music which is like that. I think that's where modular actually excels. You can do all the nice pretty ambient stuff with it, but you can do crazy almost experimental stuff too. It's still music, just not mainstream or commercial.
Anybody who thinks modular is limited to nerdy bleeps and bloops has not heard Venetian Snares - Traditional Synthsizer Music
@@unknownmusicman To me traditional Synthesizer Music is sth. like Morton Subotnick.