Nettle Fibre Experiment: Cold Woodash Lye
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Today's video is an update on an experiment that I'm currently doing to get clean, fine fibre from Stinging Nettles.
It's very much an ongoing idea, but certainly has some potential benefits for those that like to scrape their nettles but don't have facilities for more traditional retting processes.
I now have a 'buy me a coffee' page which helps fund my ongoing research and the making of these free videos. If you'd like to support me, please visit ko-fi.com/sall... Thank you!
It's sounds really close to what I've read in the book "Brennessel - Anbau, Sammlung, Verwertung; von Dr. Oswald Richter aus dem Jahr 1917". He write down on page 30 that after the nettle fibers are split out fresh, you can cooking them for 15-30 minutes in soap water. Then you can heakle the fibers and you will get really white fibers in staple length between 3_5 or 10-14 cm long fibers.
I really want try out the recipe with ash (30 grams for 1 litre water for 150 gramm fiber material) like I use this recipe to wash my sheep wool in 50-60°C warm water for 7-8 minutes, and clean them out in fresh water for 7-8 minutes (maybe 2 times) and after this, hang them out for dry before I begin to heakle them.
Thank you so much to be one step before me, because I'm still in the stadium to seperate out the fibers from my rotted nettles from last year 🤗❤
This is the link to the pdf of the German book
www.digital.wienbibliothek.at/download/pdf/460457.pdf
The comments on this video are just as interesting and informative as the amazing video itself!
Together with a friend, we've tried the technique with boiling in woodash for 5-10 minutes. Afterward coating the nettles with a thin solution of clay and let it dry. Then when rubbing, the clay assists like an abrasive and the fibres came out clean for spinning.
Thank you for sharing this cold bath technique!
So exciting! I've heard that most Northern European fine linens from the past were really nettle cloth, which needs an electron microscope to be distinguished from flax cloth. And that the finest threads were preferred whenever possible for making the finest cloth. And here is a tidy solution! It makes so much more sense to use a "chemical peel" on the fibers to preserve the desired threads. Thank you, thank you!
What a treasure lye is, from cold rinsing laundry to remove grease and sweat before soap was commonly used, to making amazing bast fiber threads!
That rinse would make some amount of soap from the fats collected in the fabric by wearing the cloths
These are great results. I tried boiling my nettles in plain water for 30 minutes, and I found that they were also far easier to scrape and got similar results to your first batch. I'll have to also try your method now!
I think the next question is "do you need to process the wood ash to Lye?"
We use hard wood ash (as is) to "slip hair" off hides in leather making. Just by wetting the hair on hide, dusting heavily with hard wood ash and then soaking in a hard wood ash & water slurry.
Could much the same be done with Nettle Fiber?
I was wondering that as well. I know packing eggs in wood ash was a method of preservation, would layering the nettles with ash and letting them sit be a way to slow process them but keep them workable until you have the time to do something with them?
I think it is pretty much the same thing. I just mix my ash in a jar until nothing else dissolves into it. Saturated solution. Then I just use a coffee filter to separate. It just has the particulates still in it. But when you wash it all away it comes out clean anyway.
Always love to see ypur newest videos! You have so much knowledge! Thanks so much for sharing and letting us into your world to see all of the amazingly wonderful creations! You have a beautiful gift. ❤❤
Another awesome video. I have a question for you, has the process of soaking them in the lye solution altered their strength, flexibility, colour or ability to take on colour, compared to other methods you have used?
As ever you have created not only a cool video but a huge number of I wonder ifs lol thank you ever so much for sharing x
That's my next test, but initial inspection says they are still good and strong
@@SallyPointer that sounds really promising, I can not wait to hear more, I especially like your nettle videos, mainly because I got stung so badly after falling in the wretched things so often as a kid I think I take great pleasure watching you scrape them!
I also grew up watching a lot of West Country crafts and make dos in which my farming father or his mother used to automatically on occasion turn to the nature around them to deal with things rather than new fangled modern stuff!
I now am in London and your videos give me a great dollop of nostalgia and homesickness. I truly can’t not thank you enough x
So exciting! after one of your previous videos I soaked some nettle cordage with ashes in hot water, and another piece simmered in the same amount of ashes and water. The one that soaked came out with a lot of the gums removed, and I was able to rub off a lot of the skin. The simmered one came out beautifully clean and soft, and a lot smaller!
When soaking in water if you toss some soil (a handful to a barrel of water.. so a sprinkle in your little pot) in the initial rett in water will happen faster.
(As another possible experiment to try).
Thanks so much for showing this as a video, I love it.
I'm always so delighted when you come out with a new video.
I've seen videos on traditional processing of Himalayan nettle/Allo. Nepalese and Indian women boil the stripped stalks in water and fresh wood ash, after rinsing
the fibre is pounded, resulting in beautiful clean, long white fibres.
I wonder if other alkali substances such as ammonia or washing soda would work instead of lye. Time to play!
Probably! I know aged urine (a good source for ammonia) used to be used to whiten laundry in ancient Rome. I suspect it would be just as useful for something like this.
I love experiments! More!
Silk of the north.
This is fascinating!
Now I really want to find glass caps for my jars. Didn't even know that was a thing.
Maybe Fido canning/storage jars? They have the kind of lids that flip back!
Fascinating! Thank you for sharing your process!
thanks for this!! excited to try out woodash lye.
Your experiments are always so interesting and informative. ♥️
Well, I am a complete beginner and I don't have any nettles in my weed patch. But I do have some rather tall "catnip" with a thick main stalk, but many many branch nodes along the way. I also have a few yellow coneflowers, which I could harvest at the end of the season. They also have long stalks and fewer nodes. But I have far fewer of them.
Would any of these other weeds work ok? I have a bunch of thistles and velcro pickerbushes, too, but they are nasty to get near!
Keep up the experimental archeological investigations!!
Thanks for another fascinating video❤️🤗🐝
Have you ever tried hackling, like they do with linen? You may be able to forgo some of the scraping as the combing would break up the outer coat and refine the fiber.
Yes indeed, I used the thorn hackle I made as part of my MSc on nettle very successfully
Soak in water for three weeks, change occasionally if in a vessel (as opposed to a stream) and the pith slips from the fibers. Used for hemp also. You should watch the traditional hemp videos from Italy. They card it or whatever like linen with nail boards.
Bending over an edge rapidly for the pith also (you already removed). Or bent over another rope. Same sort of thing for sinew as well, but it needs the fly-aways burned. For hemp too. I was primitive with the sinew. Don't be above pounding fiber with a smooth stone on a log.
Here's a tip if you've made it this far,;- a dip in a strong alum solution for the plant fiber, then drying is a method to strengthen them. This is at the end of natural rope making not dyeing textile fiber. Leaving mordants in comes to mind but I cannot contribute about that. I followed recipes more than studied it.
I'm after a non retting method this time, but I'm fascinated that you can ret your nettles for three weeks without losing the fibre. For me in my river that's way too long. Different bacterial profile maybe
I'm after a non retting method this time, but I'm fascinated that you can ret your nettles for three weeks without losing the fibre. For me in my river that's way too long. Different bacterial profile maybe
@@SallyPointer Re Bacteria. If the whole stalks are placed in a little ordinary tap water in a vessel (with a stone on top to keep it all submerged), then the ubiquitous lactobacilli (they are everywhere on the stalks) will multiply and quickly lower the pH by producing lactic acid which will in turn inhibit and kill off the other strains of bacteria that would normally cause plant material to rot - as it would in a river.
If you think about it, this is ‘exactly’ the lacto-fermentation processes that produces and preserves traditional kimchi, dill pickles and real sauerkraut. Note: The salt added to sauerkraut is not as a preservative as may assume but to retain a bit of crunch.
Likewise, you don’t want any micro-mycelium (fungi) in contact with stalks as the digestive enzymes they excrete break down cellulose fibre. Lactic acid, vinegar, etc. will prevent them growing.
@@SallyPointer If the whole stalks are placed in a little ordinary tap water in a vessel (with a stone on top to keep it all submerged), then the ubiquitous lactobacilli (they are everywhere on the stalks) will multiply and quickly lower the pH by producing lactic acid which will in turn inhibit and kill off the other strains of bacteria that would normally cause plant material to rot - as it would in a river. If you think about it, this is exactly the lacto-fermentation processes that produces and preserves traditional kimchi, dill pickles and real sauerkraut. The salt added to sauerkraut is not as a preservative as may assume but to retain a bit of crunch. Likewise, you don’t want any micro-mycelium (fungi) in contact with stalks as the digestive enzymes they excrete break down cellulose fibre. Lactic acid, vinegar, etc. will prevent them growing. Nearly forgot to say that the lactobacilli will need to feed on some plant juices so perhaps the stalks should be fresh and crushed to make the sugars available.
@@Nuts-Bolts lactic acid needs a salty environment to proliferate, and then indeed kill off all other bacteria and yeasts. Sugars feed yeasts on the plant to ferment. They then break down sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide, this process promotes breaking down of the plant material, not sure about the effects on fiber strength
going to try this with spruce bark to see what happens. a branch fell down and i have some less than perfect pieces (not suitable for basketry, but perfect for cordage if this works)
Very interesting, out of curiosty, where do you find discussions about nettle retting? I stuggle to find info on the subject at all
The Nettles for Textiles Facebook group is an excellent discussion forum for all methods
@@SallyPointer thank you very much
if you are interested in nettles for spinning and making textiles then you can have a look at my blog 'for the love of fibreplants and plantfibres.' on substack. I only use the waterretting-method.
@@miekeharinck500 thank you very much, ill do
ramie is a wonderful, sturdy, and incredibly light fabric made by... um, i know the word for soaking nettles in lye isn't nixtamalisation, but being anishinaabe (Indigenous, from the americas) that's the only equivalent word i can think of 😅
Very cool actually
Very interesting experiment. I wonder why you use rain water to make the lye, it is more likely to be acidic than tap water. Just a thought.
Fascinating, I once had the thought to try and run the nettles between two very heavy rolling pins to see if that would help remove the flesh part. with all that has happened with my living situation I have never been able to try it sadly. I wish you all the luck, this definitely looks promising!
Thanks for the interesting video !!!
After watching your first nettle-video years ago, I thought by myself, that the early folks surely also had put nettles in their stew and maybe saved the now softer stems for making cords...just an idea. 🙂
Very interesting.
I'm so fascinated!!! Thank you!
Maybe boiling the fibers along with the lye would release a finer result?
Fascinating! these results are really interesting, and I look forward to your further experimentation!
Yes, I would rinse and then I would pack all of my fibers in a jar of straight vinegar and just pull them out as needed. It would be a way of canning them for winter usage.
Ive been watching all your videos over the years. Why not just do water retting like people do with flax then break it using a flax break. I don’t think Ive seen you do that yet. I think peeling them green then drying them then water retting them would be the best course of action. Seems like an awful lot of work to get a few fibers. I see they are good but dang, thats a lot of work.
I'm curious also if you use a hackle and break, or think that people used those in the past at any point in this process.
It's because current evidence suggests little to no retting in prehistoric samples. It's a great method for more modern periods though
@@SallyPointer Do you think no retting in prehistoric samples has something to do with the splicing method? As I understand it, retting strips the fibers completely of the green gum that helps glue the fibers together when splicing them and it would make sense if that's the reason they chose not to water ret them.
@@lonesderup3419 I think splicing would be a viable way to make the thread but it seems to be a bit fragile and I would be amiss to weave with spliced. I did do a pretty good job making spliced fiber last summer but not sure it could handle the rigors of a modern loom but maybe a warped weighted loom. Maybe I should do enough using my flax to make a bunch of thread. It will be a long process doing it alone. Splice the fibers wet. Strip them then split to the size you want then splice the ends. Do two piles of them then spin the two piles together to make a spun single. If you don’t spin the fibers the spliced ones might not handle being a good warp. Maybe a weft but not likely a warp. That is my thinking and it comes from my trials of making spliced thread from peeled flax vs retted flax.
@@SallyPointer Ok. I do however don’t believe retting of some sort was not done. Prehistoric does not mean primitive. I guess I should look for books showing the evidence of non retted. Not sure how they can actually tell.
thhanks and blessings to you, from South Afrika
Has anyone tried using aged urine in this or other bast fiber processing rather than lye?
I was also wondering about it...amoniak definitely would be one of the first things Ill try....it was also used for processing leather so something that was known
You might try using a freshwater mussel shell to scrape, instead of the knife. It seems the best for removing the fibers from yucca leaves. The knife is too heavy and blunt. I'm in the US, and am trying the materials used by indigenous people. I've also boiled basswood bark [Tilia americana] in woodash as the Seneca did when they wanted the fiber quickly. I did try retting them in a bucket as well. I was living in an apartment then, and the landlord asked me never to do this again.
Perhaps after the fibre has been washed in vinegar they could be soaked in water with some rennet added. Rennet as you will know contains pepsin which is most active around pH 1.5 to pH 2.5. This will help to break down any proteins adhering to the fibres.
Have not tried this myself but was wondering if this is how the ancient Egyptians and Greeks (the very wealthy ones at least) managed to have fine, shear, diaphanous fabrics which would have required fibres to have been very clean before weaving.
Egyptian linen is spliced linen, allowing threads barely more than two fibres thick to be produced.
I've used winemakers pectolic acid/pectolase before, rennet is an interesting idea
I havent found any nettle in my area, but there are lots of motherwort plants. I want to spin the fibers like nettle and flax. There is very little info on this, maybe you could do a video on it?
Hi Sally! Congratulations and many thanks for your awesome videos!
Someone probably asked you this already, but I wonder why you don't follow the same methodology as what is typically done for flax: retting, drying, then "braking", then scuffing. It seems to me that building a sort of brake is very easy, something that neolithic people could have done easily with nettles. And it seems a lot less work than scraping. Is there a reason why you don't go that route?
Again thanks a lot for everything, from France!
Nettle doesn't like being processed in bulk, it really rewards being done a stalk at a time
@@SallyPointer Thanks a lot for the super swift reply! Would you care to explain what you mean by "it doesn't like"? You mean it breaks?
Wow, some good chemical retting there. I wondering if pickling lime would also do.
On a different note: It seems the Southwestern Pueblo people, would process fiber from Yucca plants by boiling and then slowing chewing the leaves. This mastication seems more than just mechanical but also an enzymatic process. However, I've concerns about try this after reading that we should avoid consuming nettles in certain situations (ex. when they're preparing to flower).
I've tried preparing nettles by chewing, it worked well but was slow going
Do the dry fibres have the same tensile strength as the traditionally prepared fibres? I would worry that the lye weakens them.
This is super interesting !!! I would love to try something similar with the milkweed that grows here--I collected about 100 stalks but am having difficulty processing them simply due to being disabled. I bet this would help a lot... you've given me ideas ! :)
in "the life of mila repa" there is a part where he has made so much nettle soup in the same pot without washing it that a skin made of nettle expressed goo formed so thick he removed it in one piece and was able to boil his soup in that without the pot.
you can boil water in a paper cup over a flame
so long as there is water to transfer the heat away it never gets over 212
am i giving good ideas?
There's also the part where he turned green from drinking only nettle tea and became so emaciated that he was able to fly away down the valley...
@@olsim1730 does anywhere on him a sign taped say follow me exactly
hehehe
Huh, i always just pulled the fibers out of one end after a simple blanching. Learned it from a Cherokee chief. Maybe your "stinging nettles" are different from our simple weeds, i dunno.
I'd love it if that worked on our nettles
Instead of a butter knife you should use a denture brush. It'd be stiff enough to get all the green part out from between the fibers & I don't think you'd lose much if any fiber.
Interesting idea, I'll see if I can get hold of one
This is fascinating! Does there seem to be any decrease in strength of he fibers after they are soaked in the lye?
I also wonder whether you could use a comb to speed up the scraping process? That would basically allow you to scrape the fibers from multiple sides at once.
I've occasionally wondered what happens if you put vegetable matter in a well aged and strong suint fermentation for scouring wool...is there a point at which the result is useful. I haven't done suint fermentation myself but it seems to me that anyone who does it would know because vegetable matter gets caught up in wool.
I wonder what would happen if you did the scraping with a bone blade, like a bone folder. The steel blade (even for a butter knife) is very hard and I would think it would weaken the fibers while scraping off the green slime. Or even another, softer metal, rather than tempered steel.
I wonder can we do a test with nettels that are picked de barked then dried and after they are dry if we can do retting and lye at a different date dose it change anything?
Do you think this would also work with lye made from sodium hydroxide which has cooled?
For those of us who can not boil wood ash somewhere safe, this could be a really viable solution if it works.
What about soaking salt water?
Try it and let me know how you get on!
How is woodash lye get as red ?
It's picked up tannins from the filter layer
When is the best time to harvest nettles for fiber in their life cycle?
Once they flower and the seed starts to set
I do wonder if this will affect the longevity of the fibers in the long run...
It's certainly something I'll be keeping an eye on
When to collect stinging nettles?
In the UK right now is perfect
Is such a strong substance as lye necessary? In the olden days people just let the nettle rot a bit in the bog.
She mentions retting and doing this as a possible alternative. This isn't a necessary process, but it is one worth exploring.
Their might be unsafe to seal a jar with a mixture like that, if you have any gas developments it could explode
Also Their is no real difference between regular and woodash lye.
takes way too much time n effort to make lye then use to process fiber faster. depending on how advanced the society was and how much fiber they were processing, and whether it would have been worth it to process it with lye. chad zuber has made a lot of cordage with yucca. i cant find the exact vid but i think he did ret the fibers in the river to make it easier to process. youre probably aware of how linen is retted too, with just water. www.youtube.com/@ChadZuberAdventures/featured . u can leave a comment on his most recent video about retting the release fibers without modern crops like linen, he should see it at some point. it just seems like using lye would be something a village of 100 people would be able to manage, but less than that wouldnt be practical to process all the ashes... but maybe it would be worth it. maybe try retting with just water to see how much easier it can make things for u. and then see if using lye can speed up the process that much. i wonder if using rain water/ground water makes any difference. tap water shouldnt be used imo, but maybe it wont matter that much. also if the trough is kept outside i wonder if there's more bacteria in the water breaking down the gum faster, than if its kept inside. of course linen is often retted on the grass, just by turning it over. but they didnt really have scythes back then.
She usually retts fibre in a river, this is an experiment into alternative ways of processing it.