Truly amazing! I love seeing links between things like that. Sadly at over 70 I really get sad that I wasn’t taught science subjects like that! But… on a positive note I get so excited with these films that I am experimenting, making things, and leaning more than I have for many years. Thank you so much Robert.
Everything in one video. Not many likes here but there should be. Cooling in this hot, humid southeast US needs as many of these as can be built by virtue of the fact of its economy. Thanks!
I can always count on you to give me new ideas on cool science principles. I'm not sure what I'm going to make but the point about low pressure evaporation I will surely use at some point. Thank you
The next step is to make this a reversible battery. The zeolite requires a higher temperature to recharge it, but its a poor thermal conductor, so increasing thermal conductivity into and out of the zeolites will speed recharge and by playing with pressure you can reduce the temperature in which to drive the water out. The advantage of reversible metal hydrides is that you can double the eq pressure for the energy input of raising the specific heat of the hydride 15 to 20 C. You can half it be reducing temperature. So if we alternately put heat into the hydride and take heat out of another hydride synchronously we get 1/2 the fluid power being generated by the release of hydrogen to power a conventional heat pump with a refrigerant and that refrigerant becomes a thermal battery simply by altering the volume in a piston alternating between heat of vaporization and condensation. The temp difference is low 15 to 20 K but the heat of formation for one mol of hydrogen will be about 22.2 kj/mol that is a very large heat flow, but the thermal energy is maintained within the system because in essence you are not ever going above ambient temperature. Heat only flows from high to low. Lots more on this to come.
If I pull a vacuum on a large tank or set of tanks. Is that a form of stored energy if utilized in this fashion or other methods? Just being a way to boil any liquid with an "R" number on the refrigerant chart can move heat from one place to another and be recycled back to a liquid and subcooled to be used again. The compressor in any refrigeration system is pulling the vacuum as well as compressing hot gas into a small area so heat can be easily removed. Got me thinking as usual. Thanks again for your teaching.
I just came across this video of yours Robert. Very nice concept. I have a question for you about the DESALINATION. How much Fresh Water would this System make? So if I were to build a Compact Desalination System using Zeolite which in it's self is used as a Water Filter. How much Water would you get from That 1 qt Can of Zeolite after Heating it to Evaporate and Re-condense for Fresh Drinking Water? I know this is a Old Video, but the Knowledge is still good and always up to Date Hopefully New Things Being Added all the Time. Thanks for your work and your willingness to Teach Others. Your Knowledge is Vast in these areas.
Here's something I've wondered about which is somewhat along the same lines as your video. As you know propane is a good refrigerant and people in the US have been known to pump their car's old R-12 A/C systems with it as a substitute. Of course unlike R-12, it's explosive. I think R-12 is somewhat explosive but requires a very high temperature. That was one of selling points when DuPont came up with has a replacement for ammonia in refrigerators. And unlike ammonia, R-12 and R-22 are supposed to dissipate quickly into the atmosphere (rise up into the ozone layer LOL!) instead of filling the air with deadly ammonia gas. 1) Use a BBQ grill tank (we call them 20# cylinders in the United States) of propane. Take another #20 cylinder and pull a vacuum on it. 2) Connect an expansion valve, orifice tube from an A/C system or maybe just a needle valve to regulate the flow. Possibly use the grill regulator before it. 3) The valve would connect to an evaporator coil. 4) The end of the evaporator coil would connect to a piece of tubing run through a large tank of water to cool/condense the propane vapor back into a liquid 5) Then the liquid would (should) go into the empty #20 cylinder. The empty tank would be turned upright as normal but the full tank would be turned upside down so the liquid could feed the expansion valve. Would in theory the propane liquid fill the empty tank entirely? After all the propane has been transferred to the other tank, could you disconnect both tanks and then swap them? This sounds logical but my guess is at some point the pressures in both cylinders would equalize. Or you would have to pull a vacuum on the empty tank every time you wanted to re-use the system? This is kind of along the same lines as the Crosley Icy ball in the early part of the 20th century that used absorption refrigeration. Except that absorption refrigeration requires a heat source to boil the ammonia off. Does any of that make any sense?
Hey what about to fill a mix of zeolite and activated charcoal inside a double (triple ?) glazed pannel, then pull back the vacuum inside, then connect it to an inside radiator/small water heater for shower and some night cooking ?
This makes me think of your water-jacketless stirling and the heat you needed to add to initiate it's propulsion. In theory, a vacuum could offer both the heating and cooling ... but not sure the delta T would be sufficient. Thanks your the vid!
very interesting, and it just happens I bought a vacuum pump last week because im experimenting with making a freez dryer. now I have one more thing I can play around with ;)
Hello mr. Smith. I was just wondering how often u would have to change ingredients to keep a chiller working for a whole summer? Aslo can u recommend what combination would last the longest. Ps. Thank you for your insights and your time put into sharing with us
Badguys Rulez you never have to change them mate - just keep on heating and cooling in a cycle - if you used three to service on box and rotated them it would be cold all the time. I don't really have a recommendation per se as it depends on availability of materials, how well you can work with them and how 'green' you want to be - all materials will have their drawbacks you just pick a good one for you and work in the limitations of what you have
Yes you could use a TEG, but instead of Peltier/Seebeck effect why not go for using pyroelectric sensors. Why? What is the advantage. Well the Peltier/Seebeck wants the greatest temperature difference to generate the most electricity or move the most thermal energy. The pyroelectric works on the change rate of temperature. So the faster you can change temperature the more effective at generating electricity you will be. So how do you get temperature to change fast. Cavitation. Think acoustic laser and or acoustic stirling engine. Keep the thermal mass low and use heat pipes to transport hot and cold from cavitation to insulated segments of the tube. Have fun.
We're building controlled-environment food growing capabilities in overseas shipping containers. The goal is to create open designs and prototypes for carbon-neutral, zero-waste food production facilities. We've been searching for a thermal battery and this looks really promising. If we are scaling this to cool, say 80 cubic meters, what would be a good design? (containers, chemicals, etc) PS - Even more interesting would be a battery for light! :)
+Tyler Reed it is quite promising but i can't really design it for you mate - that would take weeks - i can only say it is a good starting point and there is a lot of info available on the net
Hello, thanks for the video! Any idea what temperature C is required to desorb the water and regenerate the zeolite under the sort of vacuum conditions you used?
Living in Arizona I'm always on the lookout for cheaper ways to cool. I'm going to investigate this vacuum idea. Robert, You're really good at taking something esoteric and turning it into a kitchen table app, so here's something way outside the box. Any chance you can turn this "rooftop space radiator" into a kitchen table project? spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/solar/passive-radiators-cool-by-sending-heat-straight-to-outer-space
"Solid State Stirling Engines"??? Where does this come from? Only thing about a supposed "solid state stirling engine" that I could ever find was a U.S. patent (US5288336A), in which Harold Aspden and John Scott Strachan thought they could produce electrical power, (claiming 70 percent efficiency), with a Peltier device. It really had nothing to do with a Stirling cycle.
Very interesting subject, but the echo makes it really hard to hear. Maybe do your next demo in a different room? Or stick some soft materials around the place to absorb the echoes? I'm having to concentrate to pick out your words.
I swear, every time I become interested in something and Google it, you pop up in the search results. lol And here I am again. XD
Truly amazing! I love seeing links between things like that. Sadly at over 70 I really get sad that I wasn’t taught science subjects like that! But… on a positive note I get so excited with these films that I am experimenting, making things, and leaning more than I have for many years. Thank you so much Robert.
Unibit or step-bit work well for thin metal very clean.
Everything in one video. Not many likes here but there should be. Cooling in this hot, humid southeast US needs as many of these as can be built by virtue of the fact of its economy. Thanks!
I can always count on you to give me new ideas on cool science principles. I'm not sure what I'm going to make but the point about low pressure evaporation I will surely use at some point. Thank you
4EvR Perpetual cheers mate - i think this kind of stuff is really cool - it's a pity it looks so dull lol
The next step is to make this a reversible battery. The zeolite requires a higher temperature to recharge it, but its a poor thermal conductor, so increasing thermal conductivity into and out of the zeolites will speed recharge and by playing with pressure you can reduce the temperature in which to drive the water out. The advantage of reversible metal hydrides is that you can double the eq pressure for the energy input of raising the specific heat of the hydride 15 to 20 C. You can half it be reducing temperature. So if we alternately put heat into the hydride and take heat out of another hydride synchronously we get 1/2 the fluid power being generated by the release of hydrogen to power a conventional heat pump with a refrigerant and that refrigerant becomes a thermal battery simply by altering the volume in a piston alternating between heat of vaporization and condensation. The temp difference is low 15 to 20 K but the heat of formation for one mol of hydrogen will be about 22.2 kj/mol that is a very large heat flow, but the thermal energy is maintained within the system because in essence you are not ever going above ambient temperature. Heat only flows from high to low.
Lots more on this to come.
Kimberly Peacock just working through concepts myself lol = but we are getting there
Great Lecture I have been working with Acetone and will try this experiment .
Always fascinating. Reminded me of a similar application for storing the heat from solar hot water in zeolite.
nice use of it mate
If I pull a vacuum on a large tank or set of tanks. Is that a form of stored energy if utilized in this fashion or other methods? Just being a way to boil any liquid with an "R" number on the refrigerant chart can move heat from one place to another and be recycled back to a liquid and subcooled to be used again. The compressor in any refrigeration system is pulling the vacuum as well as compressing hot gas into a small area so heat can be easily removed. Got me thinking as usual. Thanks again for your teaching.
i think of it as a kind of battery mate - so i guess it is stored energy - glad you liked it
good video thank you although little noisy echos .
I just came across this video of yours Robert. Very nice concept. I have a question for you about the DESALINATION. How much Fresh Water would this System make? So if I were to build a Compact Desalination System using Zeolite which in it's self is used as a Water Filter. How much Water would you get from That 1 qt Can of Zeolite after Heating it to Evaporate and Re-condense for Fresh Drinking Water? I know this is a Old Video, but the Knowledge is still good and always up to Date Hopefully New Things Being Added all the Time. Thanks for your work and your willingness to Teach Others. Your Knowledge is Vast in these areas.
Here's something I've wondered about which is somewhat along the same lines as your video. As you know propane is a good refrigerant and people in the US have been known to pump their car's old R-12 A/C systems with it as a substitute. Of course unlike R-12, it's explosive. I think R-12 is somewhat explosive but requires a very high temperature. That was one of selling points when DuPont came up with has a replacement for ammonia in refrigerators. And unlike ammonia, R-12 and R-22 are supposed to dissipate quickly into the atmosphere (rise up into the ozone layer LOL!) instead of filling the air with deadly ammonia gas.
1) Use a BBQ grill tank (we call them 20# cylinders in the United States) of propane. Take another #20 cylinder and pull a vacuum on it.
2) Connect an expansion valve, orifice tube from an A/C system or maybe just a needle valve to regulate the flow. Possibly use the grill regulator before it.
3) The valve would connect to an evaporator coil.
4) The end of the evaporator coil would connect to a piece of tubing run through a large tank of water to cool/condense the propane vapor back into a liquid
5) Then the liquid would (should) go into the empty #20 cylinder.
The empty tank would be turned upright as normal but the full tank would be turned upside down so the liquid could feed the expansion valve.
Would in theory the propane liquid fill the empty tank entirely?
After all the propane has been transferred to the other tank, could you disconnect both tanks and then swap them?
This sounds logical but my guess is at some point the pressures in both cylinders would equalize. Or you would have to pull a vacuum on the empty tank every time you wanted to re-use the system?
This is kind of along the same lines as the Crosley Icy ball in the early part of the 20th century that used absorption refrigeration. Except that absorption refrigeration requires a heat source to boil the ammonia off.
Does any of that make any sense?
Brilliant! How long does the reaction last?
Hey what about to fill a mix of zeolite and activated charcoal inside a double (triple ?) glazed pannel, then pull back the vacuum inside, then connect it to an inside radiator/small water heater for shower and some night cooking ?
This makes me think of your water-jacketless stirling and the heat you needed to add to initiate it's propulsion. In theory, a vacuum could offer both the heating and cooling ... but not sure the delta T would be sufficient. Thanks your the vid!
certainly worth the experiment - thanks for that
@@ThinkingandTinkering i don't understand how this is a 'solid state stirling engine'. Can you explain?
very interesting, and it just happens I bought a vacuum pump last week because im experimenting with making a freez dryer. now I have one more thing I can play around with ;)
very cool mate - always good to play lol
Did you make miniature of it? Because as far as i know the freeze dryer needs good vacuum pump and it is very expensive
How does the activated carbon and methanol work?
Hello mr. Smith. I was just wondering how often u would have to change ingredients to keep a chiller working for a whole summer? Aslo can u recommend what combination would last the longest. Ps. Thank you for your insights and your time put into sharing with us
Badguys Rulez you never have to change them mate - just keep on heating and cooling in a cycle - if you used three to service on box and rotated them it would be cold all the time. I don't really have a recommendation per se as it depends on availability of materials, how well you can work with them and how 'green' you want to be - all materials will have their drawbacks you just pick a good one for you and work in the limitations of what you have
wonder if you could put a TEG Thermoelectric Power Generator between the two cans and generate electricity
Monty Perales i would say so
Yes you could use a TEG, but instead of Peltier/Seebeck effect why not go for using pyroelectric sensors. Why? What is the advantage. Well the Peltier/Seebeck wants the greatest temperature difference to generate the most electricity or move the most thermal energy. The pyroelectric works on the change rate of temperature. So the faster you can change temperature the more effective at generating electricity you will be. So how do you get temperature to change fast. Cavitation. Think acoustic laser and or acoustic stirling engine. Keep the thermal mass low and use heat pipes to transport hot and cold from cavitation to insulated segments of the tube. Have fun.
We're building controlled-environment food growing capabilities in overseas shipping containers. The goal is to create open designs and prototypes for carbon-neutral, zero-waste food production facilities. We've been searching for a thermal battery and this looks really promising. If we are scaling this to cool, say 80 cubic meters, what would be a good design? (containers, chemicals, etc) PS - Even more interesting would be a battery for light! :)
+Tyler Reed it is quite promising but i can't really design it for you mate - that would take weeks - i can only say it is a good starting point and there is a lot of info available on the net
Good one sir!
Hello, thanks for the video! Any idea what temperature C is required to desorb the water and regenerate the zeolite under the sort of vacuum conditions you used?
instablaster.
Living in Arizona I'm always on the lookout for cheaper ways to cool. I'm going to investigate this vacuum idea. Robert, You're really good at taking something esoteric and turning it into a kitchen table app, so here's something way outside the box. Any chance you can turn this "rooftop space radiator" into a kitchen table project? spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/solar/passive-radiators-cool-by-sending-heat-straight-to-outer-space
cheers mate - i will have a think!
awesome, Thank u :)
cheers
Where can I get a simple vacuum pump like this to do an experiment like this?
You could use a cheap brake bleeder, manual pump, I think?
This whole comment section will go up in flames once its fellow viewers realize that he's explaining the whole thing using the Metric system *lol*
"Solid State Stirling Engines"??? Where does this come from? Only thing about a supposed "solid state stirling engine" that I could ever find was a U.S. patent (US5288336A), in which Harold Aspden and John Scott Strachan thought they could produce electrical power, (claiming 70 percent efficiency), with a Peltier device. It really had nothing to do with a Stirling cycle.
Very interesting subject, but the echo makes it really hard to hear. Maybe do your next demo in a different room? Or stick some soft materials around the place to absorb the echoes? I'm having to concentrate to pick out your words.
ok
Shoot o just asked you about this lol
Good luck. if you make it economically efficient it will be nice.
cheers mate
The sound is terrible!