Ep 5. Electric or Diesel Narrowboat?
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Is now the time to future proof the boat and invest in a solar/electric engine?I've thought long and hard about how I can future proof my boat. I want to be as eco-friendly as possible. In this video, I outline my thought process. It's based on what is available NOW as I need a home as soon as possible and not in a few years time. It's not easy when I have a relatively short time in order to make the right decisions based on the economic and climatic conditions. **WARNING**. I must apologise as I like to film on site to give you, the viewer, the best experience. In doing so, the workshop is full of unnatural light and my camera struggled with the lighting conditions. A bad workman blames his tools. I get it. I promise to do better.
Music. Epidemic Sounds
#narrowboatlife. #Buildinganarrowboat. #Solarpower
Hi Chris
Your discussion on hybrid v diesel, mmmm.
There is a teaching in submarine command that states "Attack what you see and not what you think you see"! When you started on this journey the economics of fuel supply v hybrid
were very different from what they are today, your choice was made having assessed options at the time. Things might have changed but as you so correctly point out 30K for a hybrid will take a very long time to get back the benefit. Good Choice.
As for 27Ltrs of Poo, in a plastic bucket, in a warm engine bay below my entertaining area I'm not so sure! How much fertilizer will your plants require on a monthly basis? Clearly your tomatoes will be something to behold!
Thank you Chris, you cheer me up on a weekly basis
Mel
I edited a lot of that. I think in the short period of time, my mind has changed a bit, mainly due to Crick. Hybrid isn't 100% as the cost is too much, but it does depend on the battery set up. Pointless having lead acid on a hybrid engine. Lithium, as it holds charge better and charges quickly; recognise its different in other styles of boat!
I'm still happy with my choice and my hybrid will be a horse if it all goes a bit wrong.
The poo bin which I might name PB from here on, is a test and adjust thing. I know the principle, I'll apply the principle and see what happens. Hmmm, tomatoes...there's a thought? £ in Thanks
Watch quite a few Canal vids like cruising the cut and the boat that James built and and yours is up there with them and like your style. Plus you cannot beat seeing craftsmen at work.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s an honour to be in the same bracket as James and David. It’ll be easier when I’m on the water where I hope I can continue to entertain. Craftsman at work…..I hope your referring to actual craftsman and not my fence building! Thanks for watching Nigel.
@@chrismears-inslowtime LOL Both, but having worked in engineering as a electrician most my life watching those fabricators was brilliant. Unsung heroes unfortunately these days if you show a teens around those dirty noisy places they run a mile.
@@nigelw512 I understand that. A different lifestyle and breed. I hope when my younger children join me on the boat I will be able to show them what life used to be like. Electric stuff is coming.
Excellent content. Told by someone with experience unlike the majority of Narrowboat RUclips channels who are full of their own self importance which after a while becomes draining. Looking forward to your journey in the future vlogs.
Thanks Chris. Although to be honest, I’ve just done lots of research and have absolutely no narrowboat experience. Age and life experience, well, that’s a different story! Thanks for watching and your kind thoughts.
Excellent comment. I have followed Chris from the beginning and thoroughly enjoy his approach. Idiots who have no idea what they are doing deserve the outcomes they get and then claim the victim card. As you say "so full of their own self importance". Chris acknowledges his weaknesses and then investigates possible solutions, and is willing to bring us along for the ride. How lucky are we?
Nice vlog again Chris we had a cross bed on our boat I’m 5’ 11 and couldn’t lay flat thought it would be ok when we viewed boat but by the time your bedding is on and pillows not a chance
Keep up the good work
Thanks Stephen. It was a good guesstimate. I erred on the side of caution. Thanks for the knowledge. I’d just fit with an inch to spare. Immaterial, it’s not happening.
Great footage of the build. Some nice steelwork there. Loving the vidoes.
Thanks Susie. Really appreciate the feedback. I hope to continue in the same vain.
Nice 1 Chris…
Thank you Tony. have a great week.
hey Chris, really enjoying your vlogs. We are a few months ahead of you and will be on the water later this month, but it's so comforting to see you thinking through all those decisions we've been making. I think you are spot on with the diesel engine, solar's time will come, but still needs some development, just a little bit too early for us. Really looking forward to following your journey, see you on the water....
Thanks for watching and commenting. It would be good to catch up in due course. The fit out starts soon and I hope to offer more analysis on my decision making. Lots to consider as you know. I’m also taking a risk or two.
@@chrismears-inslowtime Hey Chris, Great to see you go past this morning... When I was originally commenting on your vids I was "marlbrookfarm" (With a show jumping picture).... I remembered saying "see you on the water", and now we have! All the best, Ian
@@Marlbrookfarm2 great to see you and thank you for popping out to say hello. Enjoy your travels.
Nice one. Like the music and the style
Thanks Stephen. Appreciate your time watching. Music, for me, is an important part of the video. I sometimes wonder if it comes across too loud?
@@chrismears-inslowtime Yes it’s very good, especially at the start with that riff. If you’re thinking of changing the volume don’t make it much louder. ;-)
I’m sorry you didn’t go with electric + generator, I’ve been thinking about that
Keep the videos coming, Chris. I'm really enjoying them and the thoughts you share with us. From the look of the progress, you'll be on the cut before you know it.
Again, thanks for your continual support watching them. I want to share as many thoughts as RUclips will allow. The fit out will will provide more opportunities for deeper analysis.
Hi again Chris. Bilge pumps usually come with a high level/low level float switch accompanying them. Should any water reach a certain level then the pump will switch on and keep running until the minimum level is reached again.
This is good for any major water ingress, however it will always leave a small residue of water at the very lowest part of the compartment which you will have to clean out yourself. Do some research on it.
You don't need alarms sounding or anything like that. Just a warning light on your control panel is sufficient.
Agreed Alan. Hopefully, won’t need it. Always going to mop up any water, oils etc in the engine bay. Pain initially, but a bigger pain will be addressing the rust if I don’t.
Thank you,I enjoyed that. Being talked throu🎉gh the pros and cons. That was very interesting. I have never heard that before.ELECTRIC solar OR Diesel. What do you think of the hybrids?
That also seems to be popular. I think you have gas cooking but a multi fuel stove.are there any other choices on a canal boat?
I just saw a Red 7 ferry on utube .That seems to have water stream technology. Are there any different things going on the cut.
Hybrids are a great combination. Just add about 15k to the price. They're not totally green as they require diesel still but you get the quietness when cruising. Electric boats I have found still have a generator. So does it work....discuss.
Multi Fuel stove or diesel stove. Jury's out on that as there are benefits to both. Diesel would be my choice if I had yo do it all again.
Thanks for the comment Russell. have a great week.
Hybrid? Best of both worlds. Do you think the canals will ever be fully electric? They run majority next to rail ways so perhaps hook into that supply. Or... perhaps technology will change to allow better absorption of source, or usage and storage. Battery tech moving forward now with electric cars.
Wonder if you can use electric car battery on the boat as storage. So many idea. Must research myself :) enjoying the channel so far, entertained and informed on the choices and why you make them.
the dabate goes on electric v diesel. ive decided to bite the bullet and go electric drive with backup generator. solar pumping power in is great but currently will still need additional resources. however the genny only switches on when required and as it runs at peak efficiency all the time is much more efficient than a diesel engine. i suspect the debate will be overtaken by legislation quite soon which was part of my reasoning. dont want the expense of an electric conversion in 5 years time. i like the idea of pulling charging points off the rail network systems. and finally yes battery tech is changing rapidly my lions although expensive up front are a joy and can take pretty well any charge you can throw at them again reducing gen run time and saving on diesel. ultimately in my mind a no brainer but its a big lump up front
Cost. Hybrid is probably the way but……. Great thought process on electric rail lines. However, like cars, there may need to be a time limit on charging points as they will be limited. 35k+ boats on the canals. In a marina, you’re fine. On the cut, during winter, it’ll become a race to the charging points so when it happens and if it does, there ought to lots of plugs. This will go on for some time. A good debate can be had.
James. Of course I can’t argue with you. I think you’re right in your analysis. The govt will intervene and direct in due course. You can still by combustion engines until 2030, so they can’t force the issue until then at the earliest. The priority will be cars and I suspect new boats may be regulated as solar first from a defined date. There was a consultation in London about electric boats last year but it proved to be too difficult to work out and was left on the back burner as there are bigger fish to catch. It’ll come and you’ll be ready. I’ll have to catch up.
Thank you for another informative 10 minutes. We've seen solar boats where the whole roof space has been taken up by solar. Like you we'll be CC'ers and our need for utilising every inch on the roof took a lot of thought. We're having fairly large top boxes for extra storage and a single 500 watt solar panel, so there'd never be enough space to compromise going electric. Love the layout of your boat though 🙂 exactly like ours .......
Thanks Mark. The thing I didn’t mention is solar boat need a lot of batteries. They take up space on the inside. If you are CCing, space is a premium. Also, imagine the cost of replacing the batteries at some point. I believe electric cars will have a reduced life if it’s not cost effective to replace the batteries. Then how ‘green’ are they in the long term? Have to meet up when I’ve launched.
@@chrismears-inslowtime we'd love to. Hopefully we can get launched some time next week 🙏. Can't wait to get cracking.
@@clenaghan1 good luck with the launch.
Chris what about hybrid? That might be the perfect solution.
The trouble is Ed, those engines are not cheap. You still require a number of lithium batteries, which need to be stored inside and the hybrid engines are still relatively new, so a bit more expensive. Space on the inside is premium. It’s all about compromising. There is a lot I can’t have because I’ve had to work out what is important as opposed to nearly important. My pockets aren’t that deep, unfortunately. I’m out of spondollies. Good result over the weekend, if the Gooner is what I think it is!
@@chrismears-inslowtime thanks for answering Chris. Yes I understand that hybrid is an expensive option, but it does give you the “best” of both worlds. I guess there isn’t a perfect solution right now. As technology improves and costs reduce I am sure you will see more and more hybrid or full electric boats.
As for the football yes we had a good result, but we will have to see what happens again in the next game. It will be a far bigger test on the team.
@@edthegooner4173 was going to ask the exact same question. Indeed they’re not cheap and if you did go Lithium you wouldn’t need so many batteries plus the electric motor becomes a very powerful generator to recharge the batteries and you could even cook with electric power if you wanted. I think presently this is the best option if you wanted some form of electric drive as you’re quite right @Chris Mears - In Slow Time there isn’t and possibly never will be the infrastructure installed to recharge fully electric boats on all our inland waterways. I’m aware that the Mon and Brec have some for a electric hire fleet, which is pretty cool.
Hi Chris great vlog, noticed that you have all port holes was there any reasoning behind the choice or just liked the look.
Hi Keith. Yes. Liked the look but is was also a safety thing. Additionally, they are smaller in size, less heat filters through in the winter. Downside, less light. Always have to compromise on decisions when on a boat!
"I'm going to have to get I to some uncomfortable positions" ?......Good thing you left that "wok" behind.
I’ve not shown my physical stature for a while. Maybe, I’ve still got it and at the rate my body is falling apart, I’ll get it back. Taking it easy when I’m exercising is quite hard. Despite setting out with all good intentions, it always ends up being a race with the clock or memory. Suggestions?
Completely agree with the electric boat decision, until fast charging points are fitted along designated stop offs for canal waterways and Thames etc..not worth it.
Boats looking good..
Make the best of what space you have...
Keep 🎸 Rocking
Thanks Neil or and Lola. There was a comment about canals being close to electric lines on trains. What a good idea. However, I still stand by diesel - for now. Knowing my luck, there will be some govt law that introduces solar boats in the coming years. They need to address how cars are going to be charged if you live in a terrace house or flat yet. Unless you have designating parking spaces, it’s going to be a challenge. Same on the cut.
Chris, like the shop fork lift in this episode, what about fitting a gas bottle conversion kit to the engine, gas is cheap and plentiful. Thoughts?
Good point John. I’ll ask the FitOut bloke if that is a possibility and if he’s heard of it in the boating world. Of course if you have a few quid to lend me on a 668 basis, I’d appreciate it. But then, you’re tighter than me so I know the answer! Thanks for watching and I think that’s twice you’ve been first to comment.
I would go electric - cram as much solar on as possible then put a 5KW diesel genni in a central engine room like early boats - with modern bifacial pannels, something like a Growatt MPPT all in one inverter and Lifepo4 battery - it will even turn your genny on automaticly when your batteries get low - not only would it meet your transit needs but also run your domestic appliances - it only takes 2 -4kw to move a narrowboat -
Think more like a modern electric car than an old fork lift - Better weight distrabution too.
Trev. Thanks for your comment. I’ve based my decision on what I saw at Crick. Someone who is using a solar powered boat. The batteries required to make that boat work took many. That takes up a lot of room on a boat, where space is at a premium. I aim to live on the boat so require storage space. I also plan to move up and down the canals so require movement, even in the winter. I think the idea of an electric boat is great. It works as a marina boat. A generator is like an engine. Admittedly, not the same, but….. Also the cost of lithium batteries is massive. To put that amount of lithium on a boat exceeds my pocket. I felt there is a fine line between what I would like to do and what I can afford. The time for that innovation is not quite ready for me. I’m not rich enough to become one of the early movers/investors. It’s a risk. If the prices of lithium reduce dramatically and the size of the batteries reduce, it would be the way forward for continuous cruisers. It’s just the time is not right. I respect your suggestion and thanks.
@@chrismears-inslowtime Thanks for the detailed reply - I am a RV campervan guy myself & made the switch to Lithium a couple of years ago using the blocky 320amp cells - its been a reverlation - microwave/kettle/toaster even hairdryer - they charge so quick - even if you go diesel I recomend them for your domestic supply so two or three hours of good sunlight or alternater charging would fill them - my 2 ebikes too!
@@trevortrevortsr2 certainly looking at lithium for domestic supply. Wait out. Just need to discuss costs with fit out pontoon.
@@chrismears-inslowtime I'm from UK - 4x 320 cells cost £420 BMS £65 Renogy DCto DC charger £120 -Rec solar panel etc - I guess with inverter and wiring it cost something close to £1000 - If I was doing it for a narrowdoat I'd make a bigger system maybe double and I'd try to get hold of one of them all in one Growatt charger inverters.
@@trevortrevortsr2 I’m not too clever with watts, amps etc. however, the basic use on a boat for planning purposes is 90amp/hr a day. For planning purposes again, most lead acid batteries are 110 amp/hr and most boats have 3-4 giving between 330-440 amp/h. You can use a maximum of 50% giving c160-220 amp/hrs use; about 2days. Lithium - to provide the same power, it’s about £1 per watt. A 300 amp/hr battery is about £3k. I get you can use more power, about 80-90% of the battery and it charges quicker but the costs are considerably high. Again, to get the best value for money, I need to do more homework with the best system along with the solar - polycrystalline or monocrystalline solar and weigh that up against probable usage also recognise that I will always need more power than less. Then is it a ‘want’ or a ‘need’? Probably the latter.
Enjoying working my way through your videos. You might have missed a trick by not going electric powered tho. If you wanted to stand out from the RUclips crowd. I'm sure a lot of viewers would have liked to see how being a CC on electric would go. Personally, i would want electric powered just for the bliss of the silence. But i do get the practicalities you considered which are understandable and like you said, if you need to rely on a generator it does make you question the validity. I sure would have liked to have seen how logistically feasible it was with the British weather tho.
I agree. And more so now the fuel prices are almost double from what the prices at the time is. I have learnt since that a hybrid engine, add 30k to the price. Also the network isn't set up for it. But I have given it some thought recently: If you're not in any rush, the solar, should have enough may do its job in the summer months. I doubt if it'll do much in the winter. The boat would need to rely on the generator.
There is only one eco way. A horse. It's been tried and tested prior to the industrial revolution. Thanks for the comment.
I think it is a wise decision going with a diesel engine. Electric is nice, quiet and probably the way of the future, but until they install more charge points or significantly improve the charge rate of solar panels, range is limited, probably more so for a boat than a car. Even the latest Tesla still does not have the range to go from LA to Las Vegas which is a typical weekend getaway for some. A diesel properly maintained will last forever, most new diesels run cleaner, quieter and more efficiently than ones built 5 years ago. I think it is still a good idea to carry some solar panels if not for no other reason than keeping the starter batteries topped off.
Hi Paul. I think I’m planning 600watts total solar panels to keep the batteries topped up. All that interior fit out stuff I need to reacquaint myself with. Supposed to have a meeting next week.
Your bilge alarm sounds like an excited owl.
Great observation. It’ll need to work at night or when I’m out as that’s when things always go wrong.
I enjoy your videos - like your presentation style. The best option would be electric with a diesel back-up generator. You have lots of roof space to fit enough solar pannels so that the generator will not be used that often. It is all about the correct battery and charging capacity. Stick to gas cooking, it uses a lot of electricity - the rest on solar. Let an expert advise you in this regard. Regards.
Tom. It’s a viewpoint I’ve struggled with and also the depth of my pockets. Solar boats need lots of batteries which take up space. As a continuous cruiser, space is a premium. That said, I have no doubt it’s coming. Risk is a game to play and game theory is the risk I’m playing currently. Can’t argue with your logic. I just don’t have the deep pockets.
@@chrismears-inslowtime Hi Chris. Yes unfortunately it is expensive. Good luck and I am looking forward to your videos. Regards.
What about all the cables & pipes that go through the bulkhead
Not sure they do Adie. The whole point of the bulkhead is to separate the engine bay where water can enter through the prop shaft separate from the cabin. All cables from the accelerator column thingy are routed around and away from the bulkhead. However, I’m not sure as it’s not happened yet. I’m probably writing a good quality bluff. Been doing that for nearly 4 decades with some success. I’ll try to pay attention as the fit out happens but please tell me I’m wrong if you see something different.
Hi Chris
You’ll need cables from battery bank to inside cabin. You’ll also need water pipes from engine through to cabin via a Calorifier. So there will definitely be some holes through that bulkhead. If water is coming your bulkhead you have a problem. You won’t get much through your stern gland (get a non-drip one fitted). The rest is rain and you’ll probably be getting a pram on that new build so you won’t have to worry about that either. Looks like a decent build and great you can film those guys welding
@@TheNarrowboatThatJamesBuilt thanks James. I’ll be sure to take a great interest in the fit out. While I don’t know an awful lot about the process, I’ll certainly understand more than I did during the steel build. Your boat is looking great by the way. I wish I had your ability. I was talking to the FitOut bloke who was saying a man broke in to a boat near him, who spent the night, cooked but tidied up afterwards, leaving the place as he found it. If all break ins were so pleasant.
@@chrismears-inslowtime , the radiator pipes go through low down as do the water pipes , best will in the world you won’t seal them . I used tank connectors in the holes to prevent chafing & then filled best I could
@@agfbuilding thanks Adie. There we go. I’ve been caught out by people who know what they are actually talking about. It’ll be a steep learning curve for me!
Great vid mate re electric have to agree with you, even though I would love an electric motor at the moment the technology just isn't viable.
We’re in a global transition for renewed energy and infra. Govt input is needed and necessary to assist in decision for boaters. Boats, will be a back seat until cars are sorted which, is going to be a bigger headache due to the congested way we live. Should be interesting. Thanks for watching.
Hope you`ve made it a priority for a Guinness fridge - everything else can fit round it
You’re right of course Terry. I am having a hatch in the kitchen floor for things like beer. Not necessarily a wine cooler as I don’t drink it, but just an integral cool box.
Get some cotton waste for that engine bay. You know you want to 😁😁
OOOh, good point Adie. I wonder where I can get it. I know when all my clobber gets worn out, they'll be used for rags when servicing the engine. I can't wait to do that, just like the old days. When I left...last year...I still had my war pants and socks in a plastic bag from 1 Sqn days. I don't think they would fit and never broke into the reserve underwear....ever. Just minged or washed them in the shower and put them back on. Soon dried in the Middle Eastern sun.
@@chrismears-inslowtime maybe the fitters of the upholstery might have a source
Turn on the generator if you need more power
Thanks Dave. Good tip!
ahhh, the crossbed debate. The problem I see with the crossbed is that 1 person will be stuck on far side once they are out of the bed and need to climb over their partner
Agreed. Also, although it can be a mechanical thing, it’s a pain to actually make the bed each night. On my own so a 4ft will be big enough. I’ve recently seen a few closed bow end boats where the bed then covers the width of the boat allowing a king size bed. Missing the well deck as an area to sit. Always a compromise.
Steam engine,or a gasifier,
Life was simple with steam engines. Maybe if you really want to be green, go back to horses!