There's another way to correct the phasing, all you have to do is feed the output of the preamp through a unity-gain inverting buffer circuit which could be built using op-amp ICs or a twin-triode tube, one for each output channel, and since the inverting-buffer circuit presents unity-gain, or a gain of 1, it should introduce minimal distortion and, or, noise.
Hi Alexander - I just want to say as a 30 year CJ owner (PV1- Pre-amp bought new) it's nice to see CJ get some love on RUclips. I just bought the ET6 preamp with phono section and run it into a 90's era Premier 11A amp. CJ is just one of those brands you can live with for years.
I think you’re absolutely right about the Premier 10 being one of the best pre-amplifiers made. To make the same pre-amplifier today would probably cost 17,000 or $20,000. If you remember, Conrad Johnson had to come out with the Art preamp that cost $17,000 just to try to beat it. But I listen to the Art and I didn’t think it was any better than the premier 10 it was just a lot more modern and fancy looking with a remote control.
Stepped ladder attenuators are easily available from the same stores that you get the audio note resistors. Simple upgrade for your existing preamps/integrated amps if there is space.
Wow you preety much rebuilt the thing hahaha. God bless you , atleast you know what you're doing. You call them upgrades . Its amazing the improvements that can be made on vintage amps that had brilliant designs like this. Good show. Im here because i agree , it is the best . I heard one back un the 90s and it was pure air and liquid midrange. I was ethereal.
I'm getting ready to buy one of these... are you telling us people on RUclips that if we have this we have to switch the red and black of our speaker cables on the back of the amplifier, because it inverts polarity or whatever❓
what happened to the part of the video where you started to talk about resisir upgrades...it was edited out❓ and I heard someone speak of changing capacitors to teflon kit upgrade?... I called Conrad Johnson and was told they are the only place that has teflon capacitors for this and it would cost 2500 plus shipping for them to replace🤪...does anyone know of this and perhaps where i could buy the telon cap kit for this pre amp❓
Yep, switch polarity on the speaker end of your cables, both Left and Right speakers it will give you the most focused imaging/center image when using the Prem10. Try it both ways. see which you like best.
I remember watching a youtube vid from ...I think the company's name is Atmosphere, they are USA and they were building their volume controls in house using he same method. Very labour intensive. Atmosphere were building tube amps without output transformers.
Lofty statement. Never owned a Premier 10, had the Premier 3 and Premier 7, which the 10 was based upon but w/o the multi-chassis layout. Lovely equipment however my 7 was returned back to factory 3 times due to power supply failures, including a cap that smoked so bad it set off smoke alarm. Frustrated, I traded it to dealer for an Audible Illusions 3A. As a line stage, very similar. The AI was however substantially better as a phono preamp. I then was introduced to the CAT SL-1 and have never considered an upgrade. Even though CAT offers several in-house upgrades at very reasonable prices, I’ve never sent it in. It may be quieter or deeper & wider…or maybe not. If you’re so pleased with the performance, simply no reason to “upgrade”. I’ve replaced tubes twice on line and output, once in phono section. I’ve spent $$$$’s upgrading amps, speakers, sources and buying records but still no desire to change out my preamp.
Sorry to hear of your issues with Premier 7. I don't blame you for the frustration. As a recall CJ had some power supply issues with a couple of their past amps MV50 & MV75? (don't quote me on that). The Premier 10 looks to be very robust. No issues yet! The CAT products have received a lot a good reviews over the years. I have never owned one. Thanks for sharing.
@@hificonspiracy I just reversed the speaker cables polarity and all of a sudden Phil Collins turned his back to me as if I listened from backstage! That's what happens when you mess up your phase on ONE SPEAKER. If you reverse the phase on both speakers Phil will sing again from between the two speakers. Now, with all seriousness, you are a very unlucky individual if you can hear the absolute phase.
I own this preamp and use it as a backup unit. Mine is modded by Bill Thalmann with balance and input selector bypassed. Beats my Premier 18 when used for vinyl playback. Excellent!
is that a Pass Aleph 3 with it? I used an upgraded PV-8 (Bill Thalmann of CJ fame) with and Aleph 5 for many years... best combo set up I've ever owned
Yes it is. I also owned a Aleph 5 years ago and also sorry that I sold it. I found an Aleph 3 about 2 year ago and grabbed it. I don't think I'll ever sell it. It's a collectors item for me. Some people complain about the looks but I rather like it. Bill is suppose to do excellent work! Happy Audio!
The PV8 was very decent, but the PV12 was superb! That preamp is better than anything in that price ranghe SS or tubed. I picked up an Evolution 20SE a few years ago and had CJ mod it (6K) Its a giant killer, but keep in mind it sold for 10K ij 1996. I bought it for 2.7K and stuck in 6K of upgrades. Also VERY important to get the best 6GK5 tubes. CJ voiced it for the Sylvania tube, but not just any Sylvania. I bought out all the last sets CJ had after I realized how hard it was to find tubes that worked best in that circuit. Phono section is a bit noisey.
Absolute phase preservation in simple stereo systems is not of prime importance and it can only bring a small benefit to soundstage focus. Given a recording preserves absolute phase too. In most cases it's a hit or miss affair. For integration in complex systems with active subs, surround speakers etc. Inconsistent phase can create cancellation issues between different routes. Must be analyzed and addressed.
That stepped volume control is amazing looking. What's the rationale of leaving the phase inverted? Is the idea to make the circuit less complicated by leaving out the phase inversion circuit before the power amp? I knew the CJ stuff was phase inverted, but apparently, so is my Quicksilver Line preamp. That explains why it was lacking low end punch. 🤣 Is this replacing your Quicksilver?
Yep, it just adds more to the circuit to correct it (phase). You see how it could give a piece of gear a bad rap. I think its great from a circuit-purity approach but probably a bad marketing decision assuming most consumers look at this stuff as "magic boxes" and fully forget to reverse phase on their speaker cables and thus becoming dissatisfied with the product. I'm guilty of it. Nope. Keeping the Quicksilver. Its finished, (finally) just need to run a few more tests and then video. I've been collecting this stuff for years and just now getting around to restoring and tweaking some of it.
The reason for the phase inverting output is exactly that, circuit purity. Less circuitry to pass the signal through by not having the bits that would be needed to output absolute phase. I got this from speaking with Messrs. C and J, and the long time C-J engineering director and all 'round smart and nice guy, Bill Thalmann. I had a PV-1, 2, then lived a long while with a PV-12A. The PV-12A leaves the linestage phase inverted (maybe the phono, too? I don't recall right now, but my PV-12A did have a phono stage). My brother has a PV-10B; also, phase inverting. I was helping him with setting up his system just the other day and he reminded my to flip the speaker connections.
Hello Alexander, that phase inverting issue is relatif and not realy relevant , indeed the sound perception nmay change on correct recorded music , two mikes and an absolute phase at the ouitcome .....BUT many amplifier are phase inverting also ,or not ...............besides what about the absolute phase of most popular recordings ? we don't know ! ...............even who knows what was the phase of the mixing, the studio ampifiers , the micros and their amps etc.........some micrphone amps may be in absolute phase and others may not.. It is a VERY nice sounding preamp ( can even hear that on the limiting YT ) .........the 6GK5 tube is a high frequency tube used in the vhf frequency bands, it is not a double triode and that eases the matching of the tubes and lessens the possible crosstalh between the tiodes .............very smart and origninal choice ! ............the HF design , that's the reason of the presence of a gridstopper resistor ..
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.
@@hificonspiracy hey alex! let me se what i can pull up. may have in one of my files from different parts mnftr. from back when me and my brother were working on my altec 1570b's. stay tuned and in touch.
I hope it's not put together as crappy as a Premier Three. Had the Evolution 20SE, basically the same pre but with a phonostage too. Still have a Premier One b amp to flex my muscles...
I think its a very solid build. Chassis is made from extruded alum panels and I-beams not just a folded sheet metal. I can't think of anything under $10k today that is made better. Primaluna I think the only exception but it's made over seas. Premaluna seems to have very high build quality for $.
@@hificonspiracy I disagree because I had three CJ pre-amps the Premier Three ´B', the PV-10 and the Evolution 20SE as said a Premier Ten with phono and a Premier One ´B' poweramp which I still have, Premier Five mono's and Evolution 2000 hybrid. Audio Research is much better built than CJ IMO but in general I find the CJ's better sounding ones maybe apart from the SP8 and SP11.
I can imagine that gear like this could bring a grown man to tears while using it. Dreamland for me and I don't even deserve to listen to gear like this nor own it. Enjoy your great gear!
Well music has brought me to tears. I think good gear can help in convey the emotional sense/impact of the music. I see a work bench and tools in your channel. I see some diy in your future! EL84s? Polished aluminum chassis? Modded Dyna ST-35's? Hmmm transformer coupling? Open baffle speakers.. Hmmm DIY my friend :)
@@hificonspiracy Sir, I repair welding power supplies and related gear including engines for my low amount of income. I would thoroughly enjoy an A/B or tube amp kit or repair project. And, a Dyna 35 would make my day. I just replaced a very good, but budget class D amp with a wonderful NAD 214 A/B amp and what a deference in dynamics. Low to high much wider and pronounced. I'm now all in on "beefy" - iron rich amps. Just as the more robust welders have more "iron" (big transformers and chokes) I believe amps and power supplies should also.
@@welderfixer If you ever run across an NAD 106 preamp grab it. Great match to the 214 and it has a super phono stage inside! Agreed on the trans and chokes! ruclips.net/video/I2owtfvS6Mo/видео.html www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nad-106-preamp-restoration-upgrade-project.550017/
@@hificonspiracy I foolishly passed on a broken NAD preamp on EBAY a couple days ago. Yes foolishly! I'm so dumb! But, I will be looking for the 106 now. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@hificonspiracy there are mullards with a ge label you can tell by the code, ge's were only made in usa as far as i know. ide go for mullard 10m's with this preamp, or mc1/f91/f92 longplates you deserve the best. compared to rca's which are amazing as well mullards are smoother with more low mids. if you like more warmth brimar 6057's would be my second choice.
I have a EVOLUTION 20SE. it's been upgraded by CJ 3 years ago (2700 bucks) I find the best tubes were the original factory supplied Sylvania. I tried a bunch of others. CJ is now out of stock. I bought 4 sets.
You've entered a world where "resistors" bring a unique and identifiable sonic signature. Don't worry let it settle and you'll feel better in a few hours.
No remote, sterile sounding...just not near the sound quality of the Linn Klimax Kontrol preamp...no way!...don't get me wrong...I have a CJ Premier 11a w/ Genalex kt88 Gold Lion tubes🎶👍🏼
the way that circuits drawn signal is taken off the cathode it will be bought back to the right phase etc only when the signal is taken of the anode will it be 180 DEG out of phase from the input sauce
Actually, no, the second triode in the circuit is connected as a cathode-follower, cathode-followers do not invert the input signal, so, the phase of the signal on the cathode is going to be the same as the signal on the grid which happens to be connected to the anode/plate of the first triode gain-stage, the first triode is connected as a common-cathode amplifier, the signal on the anode of the first triode gain-stage is going to be 180 degrees out-of-phase with respect to the input signal on the grid, and since the cathode-follower stage does not invert the phase again, the phase of the output signal is still going to be 180 degrees out-of-phase with the input signal.
I like this preamp sound...but the Linn Klimax Kontrol is much better musically and a few years back was voted one of the best top 10 preamps in the world ... especially if the factory upgrades were done...and it has a remote unlike this CJ🤣
whats up with a teflon kit upgrade to this pre 10?...called CJ and they said that they are the only one who sells it and they charge 2500 to install plus the shipping cost.🤪... I can solder, does anyone know where I can buy the Teflon capacitor upgrade kit for this preamplifier❓
CJ makes a nice I believe it a teflon/hybrid capacitor (whatever that is)Its nice, I think Teflon can sound a little sterile. Try using some nice Tin or copper film and foils. It will also save you a lot of $$ unless you absolutely must have the CJ house sound.
I like this but to me the best preamp I've ever heard and was actually voted a few years back as one of the top 10 preamps in the world... is the upgraded ... Linn klimax kontrol
@@briancampbell7712 its just uber transparent. Its going to reveal any weakness in your source I think this will be more of an issue with a digital front end. Mixing up cables and tubes can help with this match. In the end its all about synergy and if you can live without remote. I think it would be a great mix with r2r dac or analog front end and low power single ended tube or pass amp or perhaps a nice EL34 based tube amp. Enjoy!
Yes, AR and CJ are very different in their design implementations. The 6GK5 is nice that it allows for a Zero feedback circuit. Remember the 6922 often used by AR didn't start out as an audio tube either. The SP6 is a great preamp! I have some AR mod/upgrade projects coming soon!
@@hificonspiracy AR is Acoustic Research ARC is Audio Research. The 6B preamp is all 12AX7s. I had one where they added 6DJ8s but it didn't sound right so I took them out and put back 12AX7s and it sounds good now.
@@hificonspiracy No need to apologize. The SP6C had 6DJ8/6922 tubes in the cathode follower stage so you were right but I don't like the sound of the SP6C.
Well, yes and no. The PV12 can be had as both a line stage(no phono) or with phono. The Premier 10 is line stage only no phono. They use different tubes as well. Ultimately the Premier 10 has better build quality and is more transparent. However, I suspect the PV12 would be easier to live with day to day. The vol is not stepped like the Pre10 is, while a stepped is better for sound quality, its doesn't give you as much control over the level. If you want something more esoteric, an american made Audio Note type thing, then do the Prem10. Its a great sounding unit. Personally, I'm looking forward to finding a nice PV12 with phono. Im not bothered the the PV12 will be slightly colored or warmer sounding as compared to the Prem10 . Hope this helps!
@@briancampbell7712 I think the Prem10 is more transparent than the PV12. It not just all about sound quality for me there's some benefits to the esthetic of the PV12 and inboard phono stage. Yes, the phono stage will also be a compromise. The Prem10 is an incredible Preamp.
@@hificonspiracy I don't use phono...there's a guy that is selling a CJ PV12L but also someone with a much harder to locate I was told by CJ that only about 200 were ever made of this CJ Premier 10 Pre...so I'm thinking this CJ Premier 10 would be a better match to go with my CJ Premier 11a❓ I just want to buy the correct one...both are around same cost to me...? I presently use a Linn Klimax pre amp...it's a great pre and I don't know if i'm making a mistake or not by buying one of the two CJ Pre amps to replace it...I am hoping it will give a better sound quality using the CJ pre amp with the CJ premier 11a 6550c tube amp I now have❓
@@briancampbell7712 The PV12 is the nice girl next door. The Prem10 is the hotter but also higher maintenance girl (nice to have around it you can put up with few idiosyncrasies) Think Honda Accord Sport vs Audi S4 perhaps. If you get the PV12 you might never get another opportunity to find a clean Prem10. After owning a Prem10 you might find you'd be ok with a PV12 after all. Audio is madding isn't it. Enjoy! PS The Prem 11a is on my bucket list Very cool amp don't sell it. CJ had an option to convert it from 6550s to El34s. I think it was a Prem 11xs?
I think the Premier 17 is a bit more euphoric sounding which I actually prefer. The 10 is very, VERY, uncolored. Perhaps more Sold State sounding with a slightly open/sweet high end but without ever sounding cold. At least after mods. On the flip side I prefer the aesthetic of the Premier 10, the knobs, no remote so you have to get down to adjust the volume or balance. Which is cool in my book!
@@briancampbell7712 SS may have been the wrong word. Its not cold or harsh ( and not all SS is cold and harsh) its just very un colored. Its not "as" tuby or euphoric sounding. I have not heard the linn, they make a good product. They are totally different designs. However is signal path in the Prem10 is significantly less complicated and its tubed. My bet would be on Prem10 but it depends what you like. Happy Audio!
Both units Class A, Zero feedback designs. Both use resistor ladder networks for Vol attenuators. I'll give you the AN adds valve rectification and higher grade resistors & caps. For what? $20k+? Have you see the trending cost for a CJ Prem 10? Its comical. How about if one replaced the CJ vol resistors with AN Tants and added some Copper Foils output caps. Run for the money for sure. 🤑 But no doubt the AN is a wonderful design.
Conrad Johnson tube amp is famous for projecting excellent stereo imagery and gives a full-bodied sound, excellent. I am afraid the use of preamp is dying practice unless you really prefer analogue like sound.
That's unfortunate to hear of your experiences with the ART88. What were you comparing it to? I think a lot of gear has gone backwards in sound quality. A lot of digital for sure. Not all but we certainly lost 10 years chasing oversampling. The ART seems to use a similar single triode cathod follower design as the premiere TEN. Different Tube. I wonder were it went wrong. I do personally prefer a slightly warmer colored sound. But it should be very transparent and reasonably dynamic.
Fundamentally it lacks air around instruments and soundstage depth. I tried three set of tubes identifying the ECC88 Siemens & Halske West Germany from the sixties as far better performers than the stock ones, still the original sin isn't resolved. Sent to the factory they say it's fine but you know how it is, nobody would ever confess their product is a flop, nevertheless their top of their line. Compared to a tube preamp costing a fraction of it that I still have sitting around....One would want to ask for his money back unfortunately that's not an option. I'll sell it for less than half of what I paid, Life continues @@hificonspiracy
I wish I had the same experience. I played a lot with passives over the years as well. The best sound I've experienced as always been with a good preamp. Perhaps its an impedance issue. But I know passives have a following.
This configuration is soooo basic, a standard amplification stage and a cathode follower. You are a least guaranteed a distortion level of 0,2%. Most guitar amps is made like that, and that was because of cost issues. The input atenuator is cool though.
You have to go and check yourself into mental health institution. Or take your meds if you have been working with professionals and they gave you the diagnosis. Ok ?
I verting phase IS NOT A DRAWBACK. Just tell me technically why all preamps need to be non inverting. You dont have to switch speaker wires. INVERTING PREAMPS ARE JUST FINE. NO BEARING ON SOUND WHATSOEVER
There's another way to correct the phasing, all you have to do is feed the output of the preamp through a unity-gain inverting buffer circuit which could be built using op-amp ICs or a twin-triode tube, one for each output channel, and since the inverting-buffer circuit presents unity-gain, or a gain of 1, it should introduce minimal distortion and, or, noise.
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.
There's another way to correct the phasing, all you have to do is feed the output of the preamp through a unity-gain inverting buffer circuit which could be built using op-amp ICs or a twin-triode tube, one for each output channel, and since the inverting-buffer circuit presents unity-gain, or a gain of 1, it should introduce minimal distortion and, or, noise.
Hi Alexander - I just want to say as a 30 year CJ owner (PV1- Pre-amp bought new) it's nice to see CJ get some love on RUclips. I just bought the ET6 preamp with phono section and run it into a 90's era Premier 11A amp. CJ is just one of those brands you can live with for years.
No doubt! Congrats on the ET6 and 11A that would be a great setup. An 11a is on my bucket list. Or at least an MV-52 someday.
I had one of the PV-10a"s till I replaced it with a Rogue RP-5. I do miss the PV-10a phono preamp, it was one of a kind.
Amazing, I have a PV10A and yours model is a beast indeed.
I think you’re absolutely right about the Premier 10 being one of the best pre-amplifiers made. To make the same pre-amplifier today would probably cost 17,000 or $20,000. If you remember, Conrad Johnson had to come out with the Art preamp that cost $17,000 just to try to beat it. But I listen to the Art and I didn’t think it was any better than the premier 10 it was just a lot more modern and fancy looking with a remote control.
The CJ-10 sounds great! i have pv-12 and mv-45 which sound really nice as well. Used CJ gear is going for a lot these days.
Stepped ladder attenuators are easily available from the same stores that you get the audio note resistors. Simple upgrade for your existing preamps/integrated amps if there is space.
You mean the 42 position glasshouse kits for $700 pounds UK?
@@hificonspiracy😂
CJ make some of the best sound pre amps
Wow you preety much rebuilt the thing hahaha. God bless you , atleast you know what you're doing. You call them upgrades .
Its amazing the improvements that can be made on vintage amps that had brilliant designs like this.
Good show. Im here because i agree , it is the best . I heard one back un the 90s and it was pure air and liquid midrange. I was ethereal.
I'm getting ready to buy one of these... are you telling us people on RUclips that if we have this we have to switch the red and black of our speaker cables on the back of the amplifier, because it inverts polarity or whatever❓
what happened to the part of the video where you started to talk about resisir upgrades...it was edited out❓
and I heard someone speak of changing capacitors to teflon kit upgrade?... I called Conrad Johnson and was told they are the only place that has teflon capacitors for this and it would cost 2500 plus shipping for them to replace🤪...does anyone know of this and perhaps where i could buy the telon cap kit for this pre amp❓
Yep, switch polarity on the speaker end of your cables, both Left and Right speakers it will give you the most focused imaging/center image when using the Prem10. Try it both ways. see which you like best.
@@hificonspiracy
Now I'm getting the ET5 I guess I have to reverse the polarity on that also… Do you know?
@@briancampbell7712 I'm sorry I don't have any experiences with the ET5. I know it is a different design and different tube. Enjoy.
I remember watching a youtube vid from ...I think the company's name is Atmosphere, they are USA and they were building their volume controls in house using he same method. Very labour intensive.
Atmosphere were building tube amps without output transformers.
It’s Atma-Sphere. Still in business, known primarily for their OTL amps
Lofty statement. Never owned a Premier 10, had the Premier 3 and Premier 7, which the 10 was based upon but w/o the multi-chassis layout. Lovely equipment however my 7 was returned back to factory 3 times due to power supply failures, including a cap that smoked so bad it set off smoke alarm. Frustrated, I traded it to dealer for an Audible Illusions 3A. As a line stage, very similar. The AI was however substantially better as a phono preamp. I then was introduced to the CAT SL-1 and have never considered an upgrade. Even though CAT offers several in-house upgrades at very reasonable prices, I’ve never sent it in. It may be quieter or deeper & wider…or maybe not. If you’re so pleased with the performance, simply no reason to “upgrade”. I’ve replaced tubes twice on line and output, once in phono section. I’ve spent $$$$’s upgrading amps, speakers, sources and buying records but still no desire to change out my preamp.
Sorry to hear of your issues with Premier 7. I don't blame you for the frustration. As a recall CJ had some power supply issues with a couple of their past amps MV50 & MV75? (don't quote me on that). The Premier 10 looks to be very robust. No issues yet! The CAT products have received a lot a good reviews over the years. I have never owned one. Thanks for sharing.
Good luck hearing the phase!
Its easy to hear. Get a test CD or listen to a vocalist with a defined center image then reverse your speaker cables polarity. Try it sometime.
@@hificonspiracy I just reversed the speaker cables polarity and all of a sudden Phil Collins turned his back to me as if I listened from backstage! That's what happens when you mess up your phase on ONE SPEAKER. If you reverse the phase on both speakers Phil will sing again from between the two speakers.
Now, with all seriousness, you are a very unlucky individual if you can hear the absolute phase.
I own this preamp and use it as a backup unit. Mine is modded by Bill Thalmann with balance and input selector bypassed. Beats my Premier 18 when used for vinyl playback. Excellent!
How can that be? The Premier Ten is a linestage only pre-amp.
@@BoudewijnvanHoutenwith an external phono stage of course
Great take on hi fi parts dude!
11:03 - All 6 of these caps are 2.0uF @250V, but the upper-left cap appears larger! (?)
Yep, good eye. It's significantly larger. I'm assuming its a manufacturing variance since it measures within spec.
Thanks for making the video. Wish you would’ve described the sound compared to other preamps (we can’t tell from a recording of a recording). Thanks
Thanks for the feedback. I'll add more detailed descriptions/comparisons in my future vids. Happy Audio!
is that a Pass Aleph 3 with it? I used an upgraded PV-8 (Bill Thalmann of CJ fame) with and Aleph 5 for many years... best combo set up I've ever owned
Yes it is. I also owned a Aleph 5 years ago and also sorry that I sold it. I found an Aleph 3 about 2 year ago and grabbed it. I don't think I'll ever sell it. It's a collectors item for me. Some people complain about the looks but I rather like it. Bill is suppose to do excellent work! Happy Audio!
The PV8 was very decent, but the PV12 was superb! That preamp is better than anything in that price ranghe SS or tubed. I picked up an Evolution 20SE a few years ago and had CJ mod it (6K) Its a giant killer, but keep in mind it sold for 10K ij 1996. I bought it for 2.7K and stuck in 6K of upgrades. Also VERY important to get the best 6GK5 tubes. CJ voiced it for the Sylvania tube, but not just any Sylvania. I bought out all the last sets CJ had after I realized how hard it was to find tubes that worked best in that circuit. Phono section is a bit noisey.
Absolute phase preservation in simple stereo systems is not of prime importance and it can only bring a small benefit to soundstage focus. Given a recording preserves absolute phase too. In most cases it's a hit or miss affair.
For integration in complex systems with active subs, surround speakers etc. Inconsistent phase can create cancellation issues between different routes. Must be analyzed and addressed.
Thanks for sharing:)
That stepped volume control is amazing looking. What's the rationale of leaving the phase inverted? Is the idea to make the circuit less complicated by leaving out the phase inversion circuit before the power amp? I knew the CJ stuff was phase inverted, but apparently, so is my Quicksilver Line preamp. That explains why it was lacking low end punch. 🤣 Is this replacing your Quicksilver?
Yep, it just adds more to the circuit to correct it (phase). You see how it could give a piece of gear a bad rap. I think its great from a circuit-purity approach but probably a bad marketing decision assuming most consumers look at this stuff as "magic boxes" and fully forget to reverse phase on their speaker cables and thus becoming dissatisfied with the product. I'm guilty of it. Nope. Keeping the Quicksilver. Its finished, (finally) just need to run a few more tests and then video. I've been collecting this stuff for years and just now getting around to restoring and tweaking some of it.
The reason for the phase inverting output is exactly that, circuit purity. Less circuitry to pass the signal through by not having the bits that would be needed to output absolute phase. I got this from speaking with Messrs. C and J, and the long time C-J engineering director and all 'round smart and nice guy, Bill Thalmann. I had a PV-1, 2, then lived a long while with a PV-12A. The PV-12A leaves the linestage phase inverted (maybe the phono, too? I don't recall right now, but my PV-12A did have a phono stage). My brother has a PV-10B; also, phase inverting. I was helping him with setting up his system just the other day and he reminded my to flip the speaker connections.
if i don't use phono...please help me I only have a few days to decide between a CJ PRE AMP- Premier 10 or PV12L...what one is best to buy❓
Hello Alexander, that phase inverting issue is relatif and not realy relevant , indeed the sound perception nmay change on correct recorded music , two mikes and an absolute phase at the ouitcome .....BUT many amplifier are phase inverting also ,or not ...............besides what about the absolute phase of most popular recordings ? we don't know ! ...............even who knows what was the phase of the mixing, the studio ampifiers , the micros and their amps etc.........some micrphone amps may be in absolute phase and others may not..
It is a VERY nice sounding preamp ( can even hear that on the limiting YT ) .........the 6GK5 tube is a high frequency tube used in the vhf frequency bands, it is not a double triode and that eases the matching of the tubes and lessens the possible crosstalh between the tiodes .............very smart and origninal choice ! ............the HF design , that's the reason of the presence of a gridstopper resistor ..
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.
Yes good info. The AN & AMRG resistors used here are Tantalum & Carbon "Flim"
the volume control is built in sweden. you use to be able to by them in kit form also.
Hi Ben! Are you sure this was imported from Sweden? I thought it was done inhouse at CJ? Link? Recall the manufacture?
@@hificonspiracy hey alex! let me se what i can pull up. may have in one of my files from different parts mnftr. from back when me and my brother were working on my altec 1570b's. stay tuned and in touch.
I never liked the tantalum capacitors from their reputations in the 1980’s.
I hope it's not put together as crappy as a Premier Three. Had the Evolution 20SE, basically the same pre but with a phonostage too. Still have a Premier One b amp to flex my muscles...
I think its a very solid build. Chassis is made from extruded alum panels and I-beams not just a folded sheet metal. I can't think of anything under $10k today that is made better. Primaluna I think the only exception but it's made over seas. Premaluna seems to have very high build quality for $.
@@hificonspiracy I disagree because I had three CJ pre-amps the Premier Three ´B', the PV-10 and the Evolution 20SE as said a Premier Ten with phono and a Premier One ´B' poweramp which I still have, Premier Five mono's and Evolution 2000 hybrid. Audio Research is much better built than CJ IMO but in general I find the CJ's better sounding ones maybe apart from the SP8 and SP11.
@@BoudewijnvanHouten Thanks for sharing. ARC makes a good product. I'll have a bunch of ARC gear coming up in future vids.
Back in the 90’s, they say if you can’t afford a CJ preamp the next best one is ARC.
Audio Research is a great product. Just a different house sound. Currently, I have a ARC preaamp and DAC3 in rotation.
I can imagine that gear like this could bring a grown man to tears while using it. Dreamland for me and I don't even deserve to listen to gear like this nor own it. Enjoy your great gear!
Well music has brought me to tears. I think good gear can help in convey the emotional sense/impact of the music. I see a work bench and tools in your channel. I see some diy in your future! EL84s? Polished aluminum chassis? Modded Dyna ST-35's? Hmmm transformer coupling? Open baffle speakers.. Hmmm DIY my friend :)
@@hificonspiracy Sir, I repair welding power supplies and related gear including engines for my low amount of income. I would thoroughly enjoy an A/B or tube amp kit or repair project. And, a Dyna 35 would make my day. I just replaced a very good, but budget class D amp with a wonderful NAD 214 A/B amp and what a deference in dynamics. Low to high much wider and pronounced. I'm now all in on "beefy" - iron rich amps. Just as the more robust welders have more "iron" (big transformers and chokes) I believe amps and power supplies should also.
@@welderfixer If you ever run across an NAD 106 preamp grab it. Great match to the 214 and it has a super phono stage inside! Agreed on the trans and chokes! ruclips.net/video/I2owtfvS6Mo/видео.html
www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nad-106-preamp-restoration-upgrade-project.550017/
@@welderfixer The 214 is great amp!
@@hificonspiracy I foolishly passed on a broken NAD preamp on EBAY a couple days ago. Yes foolishly! I'm so dumb! But, I will be looking for the 106 now. Thanks for the suggestion.
which tube brand is it? i see something written in red not sure vintage rca's maybe?
Yes currently USA made NOS RCAs, also GEs, My favorite though are some GEs made in Great Britain.
@@hificonspiracy there are mullards with a ge label you can tell by the code, ge's were only made in usa as far as i know. ide go for mullard 10m's with this preamp, or mc1/f91/f92 longplates you deserve the best. compared to rca's which are amazing as well mullards are smoother with more low mids. if you like more warmth brimar 6057's would be my second choice.
@@yaniv-nos-tubes Thank you for the info!
I have a EVOLUTION 20SE. it's been upgraded by CJ 3 years ago (2700 bucks) I find the best tubes were the original factory supplied Sylvania. I tried a bunch of others. CJ is now out of stock. I bought 4 sets.
Would this be a good pairing with a Parasound A21 which already tends to sound warm?
@@brianpacheco1927 Yes. Tube Preamps work well with SS amps. Im using tube preamp with a SS amp on my current set up. Happy Audio!
Very transparent resistor??? ..What is that that black magic
You've entered a world where "resistors" bring a unique and identifiable sonic signature. Don't worry let it settle and you'll feel better in a few hours.
No remote, sterile sounding...just not near the sound quality of the Linn Klimax Kontrol preamp...no way!...don't get me wrong...I have a CJ Premier 11a w/ Genalex kt88 Gold Lion tubes🎶👍🏼
the way that circuits drawn signal is taken off the cathode it will be bought back to the right phase etc only when the signal is taken of the anode will it be 180 DEG out of phase from the input sauce
yes. exactly.
Actually, no, the second triode in the circuit is connected as a cathode-follower, cathode-followers do not invert the input signal, so, the phase of the signal on the cathode is going to be the same as the signal on the grid which happens to be connected to the anode/plate of the first triode gain-stage, the first triode is connected as a common-cathode amplifier, the signal on the anode of the first triode gain-stage is going to be 180 degrees out-of-phase with respect to the input signal on the grid, and since the cathode-follower stage does not invert the phase again, the phase of the output signal is still going to be 180 degrees out-of-phase with the input signal.
Try an Audio Music one.
Link?
I like this preamp sound...but the Linn Klimax Kontrol is much better musically
and a few years back was voted one of the best top 10 preamps in the world ...
especially if the factory upgrades were done...and it has a remote unlike this CJ🤣
@@briancampbell7712 enjoy!
whats up with a teflon kit upgrade to this pre 10?...called CJ and they said that they are the only one who sells it and they charge 2500 to install plus the shipping cost.🤪... I can solder, does anyone know where I can buy the Teflon capacitor upgrade kit for this preamplifier❓
CJ makes a nice I believe it a teflon/hybrid capacitor (whatever that is)Its nice, I think Teflon can sound a little sterile. Try using some nice Tin or copper film and foils. It will also save you a lot of $$ unless you absolutely must have the CJ house sound.
@@hificonspiracy
agree 💯 with your assessment about being too sterile sounding...
I like this but to me the best preamp I've ever heard and was actually voted a few years back as one of the top 10 preamps in the world... is the upgraded ...
Linn klimax kontrol
@@briancampbell7712 its just uber transparent. Its going to reveal any weakness in your source I think this will be more of an issue with a digital front end. Mixing up cables and tubes can help with this match. In the end its all about synergy and if you can live without remote. I think it would be a great mix with r2r dac or analog front end and low power single ended tube or pass amp or perhaps a nice EL34 based tube amp. Enjoy!
Nice but I don't believe on 6GK5 tubes for audio. They were used in tv IF circuits. I'm happy with my Audio Research SP6B.
Yes, AR and CJ are very different in their design implementations. The 6GK5 is nice that it allows for a Zero feedback circuit. Remember the 6922 often used by AR didn't start out as an audio tube either. The SP6 is a great preamp! I have some AR mod/upgrade projects coming soon!
@@hificonspiracy AR is Acoustic Research ARC is Audio Research. The 6B preamp is all 12AX7s. I had one where they added 6DJ8s but it didn't sound right so I took them out and put back 12AX7s and it sounds good now.
6922 is industrial 6DJ8.
@@andershammer9307 my apologies/mistake from memory I thought the SP6 was based on the 6922 with some 12ax7s. My Bad!
@@hificonspiracy No need to apologize. The SP6C had 6DJ8/6922 tubes in the cathode follower stage so you were right but I don't like the sound of the SP6C.
Conrad Johnson Premier Three is the TOP .........................
is this a better unit than the
CJ PV12L
Well, yes and no. The PV12 can be had as both a line stage(no phono) or with phono. The Premier 10 is line stage only no phono. They use different tubes as well. Ultimately the Premier 10 has better build quality and is more transparent. However, I suspect the PV12 would be easier to live with day to day. The vol is not stepped like the Pre10 is, while a stepped is better for sound quality, its doesn't give you as much control over the level. If you want something more esoteric, an american made Audio Note type thing, then do the Prem10. Its a great sounding unit. Personally, I'm looking forward to finding a nice PV12 with phono. Im not bothered the the PV12 will be slightly colored or warmer sounding as compared to the Prem10 . Hope this helps!
@@hificonspiracy
if the premier 10 has better sound quality...why would you go for the pv12❓
@@briancampbell7712 I think the Prem10 is more transparent than the PV12. It not just all about sound quality for me there's some benefits to the esthetic of the PV12 and inboard phono stage. Yes, the phono stage will also be a compromise. The Prem10 is an incredible Preamp.
@@hificonspiracy
I don't use phono...there's a guy that is selling a
CJ PV12L but also someone with a much harder to locate I was told by CJ that only about 200 were ever made of this
CJ Premier 10 Pre...so I'm thinking this CJ Premier 10 would be a better match to go with my CJ Premier 11a❓
I just want to buy the correct one...both are around same cost to me...?
I presently use a Linn Klimax pre amp...it's a great pre and I don't know if i'm making a mistake or not by buying one of the two CJ Pre amps to replace it...I am hoping it will give a better sound quality using the CJ pre amp with the CJ premier 11a 6550c tube amp I now have❓
@@briancampbell7712 The PV12 is the nice girl next door. The Prem10 is the hotter but also higher maintenance girl (nice to have around it you can put up with few idiosyncrasies) Think Honda Accord Sport vs Audi S4 perhaps. If you get the PV12 you might never get another opportunity to find a clean Prem10. After owning a Prem10 you might find you'd be ok with a PV12 after all. Audio is madding isn't it. Enjoy! PS The Prem 11a is on my bucket list Very cool amp don't sell it. CJ had an option to convert it from 6550s to El34s. I think it was a Prem 11xs?
I wonder how this would compare to my Premier 17. Anybody?
I think the Premier 17 is a bit more euphoric sounding which I actually prefer. The 10 is very, VERY, uncolored. Perhaps more Sold State sounding with a slightly open/sweet high end but without ever sounding cold. At least after mods. On the flip side I prefer the aesthetic of the Premier 10, the knobs, no remote so you have to get down to adjust the volume or balance. Which is cool in my book!
@@hificonspiracy
then from what you just said about the premier 10 being SS sounding...i may be making a mistake to replace my Linn klimax for this🧐
@@briancampbell7712 SS may have been the wrong word. Its not cold or harsh ( and not all SS is cold and harsh) its just very un colored. Its not "as" tuby or euphoric sounding. I have not heard the linn, they make a good product. They are totally different designs. However is signal path in the Prem10 is significantly less complicated and its tubed. My bet would be on Prem10 but it depends what you like. Happy Audio!
No RIAA preamplifier ? Unacceptable.
Valid point!
"Dampener"?? did you mean dampers?
@@aitchr8770 Well yes, but in the past tense. After they've damped.
@@aitchr8770 dampered....
@@aitchr8770 dampenered
It is a decent pre, but no way near the best. My FM pre is the best in the world
Definitely not. That would be the Audio Note M9 Phono Silver Signature.
Both units Class A, Zero feedback designs. Both use resistor ladder networks for Vol attenuators. I'll give you the AN adds valve rectification and higher grade resistors & caps. For what? $20k+? Have you see the trending cost for a CJ Prem 10? Its comical. How about if one replaced the CJ vol resistors with AN Tants and added some Copper Foils output caps. Run for the money for sure. 🤑 But no doubt the AN is a wonderful design.
absolutely pornographic
No balance?
Yes, there is a balance knob.
That’s why this brand disappeared they don’t believe in balance input /output .
Conrad Johnson tube amp is famous for projecting excellent stereo imagery and gives a full-bodied sound, excellent. I am afraid the use of preamp is dying practice unless you really prefer analogue like sound.
don't understand what you just said...the whole reason for using a tube pre amp, amp is exactly for the analog sound..
It’s very unlikely . I own the top of the line ART88 and sadly it’s mediocre at best
That's unfortunate to hear of your experiences with the ART88. What were you comparing it to? I think a lot of gear has gone backwards in sound quality. A lot of digital for sure. Not all but we certainly lost 10 years chasing oversampling. The ART seems to use a similar single triode cathod follower design as the premiere TEN. Different Tube. I wonder were it went wrong. I do personally prefer a slightly warmer colored sound. But it should be very transparent and reasonably dynamic.
Fundamentally it lacks air around instruments and soundstage depth. I tried three set of tubes identifying the ECC88 Siemens & Halske West Germany from the sixties as far better performers than the stock ones, still the original sin isn't resolved. Sent to the factory they say it's fine but you know how it is, nobody would ever confess their product is a flop, nevertheless their top of their line. Compared to a tube preamp costing a fraction of it that I still have sitting around....One would want to ask for his money back unfortunately that's not an option. I'll sell it for less than half of what I paid, Life continues @@hificonspiracy
Worlds best preamp is NO PREAMP. an audiophile truth I learnt 35 yrs ago.
I wish I had the same experience. I played a lot with passives over the years as well. The best sound I've experienced as always been with a good preamp. Perhaps its an impedance issue. But I know passives have a following.
@@hificonspiracy Agreed
This configuration is soooo basic, a standard amplification stage and a cathode follower. You are a least guaranteed a distortion level of 0,2%. Most guitar amps is made like that, and
that was because of cost issues. The input atenuator is cool though.
You have to go and check yourself into mental health institution.
Or take your meds if you have been working with professionals and they gave you the diagnosis.
Ok ?
You're just jealous because the voices only speak to me!
@@hificonspiracy
This is perfect example of : When you don't have a clue that you mess with the final boss of trolls 😂 😂
RESPECT
I verting phase IS NOT A DRAWBACK. Just tell me technically why all preamps need to be non inverting. You dont have to switch speaker wires. INVERTING PREAMPS ARE JUST FINE. NO BEARING ON SOUND WHATSOEVER
Cotrect the phase ? Dam it dont matter
There's another way to correct the phasing, all you have to do is feed the output of the preamp through a unity-gain inverting buffer circuit which could be built using op-amp ICs or a twin-triode tube, one for each output channel, and since the inverting-buffer circuit presents unity-gain, or a gain of 1, it should introduce minimal distortion and, or, noise.
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.
There are two main problems with carbon comp resistors, firstly, they tend to be inherently noisy and generate hiss-noise, secondly they drift out of tolerance, usually they drift high in value, metal film and metal-oxide resistors tend to be a lot less noisy and more stable in value, that is they don't drift out of tolerance.