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Seems like the message for us is "Lies and hypocrisy have no place here". I think it's a very relevant message today. I'm Catholic, and I've talked to non-Christians who cite the hypocrisy of many Catholics as a reason for staying away.
Actually, the scripture doesn't say that God killed them, it just says that they died. We can read into this, but I prefer to just read the text with no exegesis.
At the first sign of the rise of Agrippa, Simon Magus was deposed as Pope. His fall is recorded in the story of Ananias and Sapphira, who were both rebuked by Peter for financial wrongdoing and immediately 'fell down & died' (were excommunicated), the usual fate of a fallen Pope & his associate. (Spiritual death, not physical).
Hrm. 'Good' question. how about Asking The WOG that and to see if He isn't Clear enough already for Why Anyone like ananias' and sapphira's exampled choice did mortally die like that in the first place.
Did Ananias and Sapphira lose their salvation? Scripture clearly shows salvation can be lost. But in this instance it may not have been the case ; consider : 1 Cor 5.5 [I [[Paul]] have decided] to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
@@777Treeoflife Lest by any means, having preached to others, I myself should be a rejected wrote Paul. Now if Paul feared this who had taught so many, and feared it after his preaching and becoming an angel and undertaking the leadership of the whole world; what can we say? For, think not, says he, because you have believed, that this is sufficient for your salvation: since if to me neither preaching nor teaching nor bringing over innumerable persons, is enough for salvation unless I exhibit my own conduct also unblameable, much less to you.
God taking a person's life doesn't mean they weren't saved. God takes the life of people who eat and drink of the Lord's table in an unworthy manner, but those people were saved.
@@HearGodsWord I disagree. They were clearly believers who sinned. There is no Christian who hasn't likewise committed sins that are just as bad for which God could also kill them for at any moment if he chooses. God chose to use them as an example here. If he did that to everyone we'd all drop dead. The verse has nothing to do with salvation whatsoever. God taking a person's physical life on Earth tells you absolutely nothing about their salvation state.
It's a very VERY questionable verse like why doesn't god strike down all these men running these "mega churches" I'll continue my journey through the bible thou and seek jesus
I firmly believe there are certain sins that God will STILL KILL a believer for. I believe the "sin unto death" talked about in First John chapter 5 is only committed by believers. The Bible nowhere that I am aware of explains exactly what specifically would be a "sin unto death", but obviously lying directly to God about something qualifies. The teaching is also found in First Corinthians 11 where believers were taking the Lord's supper "unworthily" meaning they did not self examine themselves before taking it. They took it with unconfessed sin in their lives and God said that many of them were sick and many of them slept, were dead, because of it. That's as clear as can be imho. The teaching is found again in James chapter 5 if you read it carefully enough to understand it. The "save a soul from death" part is the saving of a BELIEVER from premature death in James 5. Ananias and Sapphira did not have to sell that property and they also did not have to give the entire proceeds of the sale. If they had told the truth or simply not sold the property at all God would not have killed them. They committed a "sin unto death" meaning God deemed that particular sin so serious and grievous it merited death. That's my take on it after many hours and really years of thinking on this subject. Btw, and anyone who is a believer should take this VERY, VERY seriously. If you have known sin in your life you should NEVER take the Lord's supper until you sort that out with God. I firmly believe what happened at Corinth STILL happens right now and will happen until the Lord returns. The solution for known sin is to confess it and forsake it. If you've wronged another person you must also ask their forgiveness and if you have unforgiveness in your heart you MUST forgive or the Bible plainly says God WILL NOT forgive you unless you forgive others. Taking the Lord's supper with sin in your life might just take you to an early grave or to the hospital with a serious illness and run up your medical bills!
Thanks for the comment and sharing your thoughts and warnings. Amen the Lords supper is holy, and may he forgive us if we take it unworthily or in an unworthy manner. However, and I could remembering wrong, wasn’t the problem in context that basically people were eating the Lord’s Supper for gluttonous purposes to the point that they didn’t care if people who came in later didn’t eat. And this was the unworthy manner in which Paul was referring to (correct me if I’m wrong though this is simply from my “memory”) Also I too have been fascinated by and terrified of the “sin unto death”. Just some guesses I’ve had. Like you yes it is a sin that leads to or results in death. I perhaps thought it may be the sins in the OT that literally carried death penalties. Some sins didn’t and required cleansing, or monetary fines, etc. but some were executable. The man in Corinth sleeping with his Fathers wife. Seems like a sin unto death, but that’s just my guess. But Paul’s own understanding told him and the church to kick the man out. That sounds like a removal of your status as a brother and of someone in Christ, like the church in Revelation who was warned about being spit out of Christs body. A loss of salvation. Now there are many who have thought or considered that the man Paul says the church should welcome back in 2nd Corinthians is this same man but repented. I hope so. Because that indicates that even if you get yourself removed from the body you may yet truly repent and come back. Hebrews 6:4 and chapter 10 (:28?) also may refer to this sin. These are also terrifying passages if they are to be literally taken and not hyperbolous. Even the sin against the Holy Spirit, seems even greater than a sin unto death. However, unless I’m mistaken, it is slightly hyperbolous. Because even though they are told this they still commit the sin and yet Jesus still offers his forgiveness to them later, and then in Acts Peter also offers forgiveness to them seemingly. Perhaps I’m wrong about this, but I wish we would talk about things like this more at the church. If there’s a possibility or a way that I can lose my salvation or extremely hurt it or hinder it I want to know
They stored their OWN money for some reason.. and they're killed by god for saving some of their own money.. do you seriously consider him as a God 🤷♂️
That's an incomplete summary of the story. There would have been nothing wrong if they did what they did and were honest about it, but their motive was a desire to gain recognition as another had, and they lied about how much they were giving.
Don’t try to manipulate God or his people. Especially when they are on a mission to literally save the world. …It’s not a joke… That’s probably why they were punished. As Peter says, was not the money your own? Could you not have just kept it all for yourself or truthfully told us how much you were donating? What made you want to lie to God? Did you think you could get away with saying you donated everything you have so that you would get a higher rank within our group and more esteem and then we wrongfully place you as an authority figure because we think you are an honest sincere man who honestly believes in the cause and in Gods all seeing eyes? Imagine promoting a liar and an unbeliever to a position of prominence in the early church? Having a man like that become a leader responsible and entrusted for others money and contributions. Imagine if he was caught in the future and exposed of his deeds, and now all early Christians are disheartened thinking how did God let this happen? And non Christian’s are now thinking bad things about the faith and our God.
1 Chronicles 29:14 Everything comes from you, and we have given you only what comes from your hand. to be honest we humans have nothing that belongs to us not even our own flesh,soul,spirit everything a mean everything belongs to God so he does what he pleases
They were not killed for saving some of their own money. Had you watched the whole video and paid attention then you would know that they were killed for lying to God, or as Peter said "why do you blaspheme to the holy ghost?"
I understand now, thenk you for clearing it up for me. I was so confused about it, but now I get it.
Why doesn't this judgment still happen today?
Thanks for the question! We invite you to call in to our weekly broadcast to discuss your thoughts with Greg Koukl. He'd love to hear from you. Or you can submit an #STRask or Open Mic question. Visit www.str.org/broadcast for details.
Seems like the message for us is "Lies and hypocrisy have no place here". I think it's a very relevant message today. I'm Catholic, and I've talked to non-Christians who cite the hypocrisy of many Catholics as a reason for staying away.
Actually, the scripture doesn't say that God killed them, it just says that they died. We can read into this, but I prefer to just read the text with no exegesis.
At the first sign of the rise of Agrippa, Simon Magus was deposed as Pope. His fall is recorded in the story of Ananias and Sapphira, who were both rebuked by Peter for financial wrongdoing and immediately 'fell down & died' (were excommunicated), the usual fate of a fallen Pope & his associate. (Spiritual death, not physical).
Hrm. 'Good' question.
how about Asking The WOG that and to see if He isn't Clear enough already for Why Anyone like ananias' and sapphira's exampled choice did mortally die like that in the first place.
Did Ananias and Sapphira lose their salvation? Scripture clearly shows salvation can be lost. But in this instance it may not have been the case ; consider :
1 Cor 5.5 [I [[Paul]] have decided] to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
@@777Treeoflife Lest by any means, having preached to others, I myself should be a rejected wrote Paul.
Now if Paul feared this who had taught so many, and feared it after his preaching and becoming an angel and undertaking the leadership of the whole world; what can we say?
For, think not, says he, because you have believed, that this is sufficient for your salvation: since if to me neither preaching nor teaching nor bringing over innumerable persons, is enough for salvation unless I exhibit my own conduct also unblameable, much less to you.
There's no indication that they had salvation in the first place in order to lose it.
@@777Treeoflife oh my gosh you Calvinist give it a rest already
God taking a person's life doesn't mean they weren't saved. God takes the life of people who eat and drink of the Lord's table in an unworthy manner, but those people were saved.
@@HearGodsWord I disagree. They were clearly believers who sinned. There is no Christian who hasn't likewise committed sins that are just as bad for which God could also kill them for at any moment if he chooses. God chose to use them as an example here. If he did that to everyone we'd all drop dead. The verse has nothing to do with salvation whatsoever. God taking a person's physical life on Earth tells you absolutely nothing about their salvation state.
What I also see as an important message in this is to give God your whole self. Not 80% not 95% but submit your whole self, 100% to God
It's a very VERY questionable verse like why doesn't god strike down all these men running these "mega churches" I'll continue my journey through the bible thou and seek jesus
Questionable how
ananias and his wife were never saved
@@ayolabimartins690 point being? Why God murder them
@@bradenbarnes7800 Those who lie to and try to harm God's children will be punished. Those who try to hurt you will be the ones hurt
@@ayolabimartins690 wym? Ain't we all gods children
this sounds like your opinion
Maybe Peter actually killed them. There isn't much information, and I don't think God would kill them
I firmly believe there are certain sins that God will STILL KILL a believer for. I believe the "sin unto death" talked about in First John chapter 5 is only committed by believers. The Bible nowhere that I am aware of explains exactly what specifically would be a "sin unto death", but obviously lying directly to God about something qualifies. The teaching is also found in First Corinthians 11 where believers were taking the Lord's supper "unworthily" meaning they did not self examine themselves before taking it. They took it with unconfessed sin in their lives and God said that many of them were sick and many of them slept, were dead, because of it. That's as clear as can be imho. The teaching is found again in James chapter 5 if you read it carefully enough to understand it. The "save a soul from death" part is the saving of a BELIEVER from premature death in James 5. Ananias and Sapphira did not have to sell that property and they also did not have to give the entire proceeds of the sale. If they had told the truth or simply not sold the property at all God would not have killed them. They committed a "sin unto death" meaning God deemed that particular sin so serious and grievous it merited death. That's my take on it after many hours and really years of thinking on this subject.
Btw, and anyone who is a believer should take this VERY, VERY seriously. If you have known sin in your life you should NEVER take the Lord's supper until you sort that out with God. I firmly believe what happened at Corinth STILL happens right now and will happen until the Lord returns. The solution for known sin is to confess it and forsake it. If you've wronged another person you must also ask their forgiveness and if you have unforgiveness in your heart you MUST forgive or the Bible plainly says God WILL NOT forgive you unless you forgive others. Taking the Lord's supper with sin in your life might just take you to an early grave or to the hospital with a serious illness and run up your medical bills!
Thanks for the comment and sharing your thoughts and warnings. Amen the Lords supper is holy, and may he forgive us if we take it unworthily or in an unworthy manner. However, and I could remembering wrong, wasn’t the problem in context that basically people were eating the Lord’s Supper for gluttonous purposes to the point that they didn’t care if people who came in later didn’t eat. And this was the unworthy manner in which Paul was referring to (correct me if I’m wrong though this is simply from my “memory”)
Also I too have been fascinated by and terrified of the “sin unto death”. Just some guesses I’ve had. Like you yes it is a sin that leads to or results in death. I perhaps thought it may be the sins in the OT that literally carried death penalties. Some sins didn’t and required cleansing, or monetary fines, etc. but some were executable. The man in Corinth sleeping with his Fathers wife. Seems like a sin unto death, but that’s just my guess. But Paul’s own understanding told him and the church to kick the man out. That sounds like a removal of your status as a brother and of someone in Christ, like the church in Revelation who was warned about being spit out of Christs body. A loss of salvation.
Now there are many who have thought or considered that the man Paul says the church should welcome back in 2nd Corinthians is this same man but repented. I hope so. Because that indicates that even if you get yourself removed from the body you may yet truly repent and come back.
Hebrews 6:4 and chapter 10 (:28?) also may refer to this sin. These are also terrifying passages if they are to be literally taken and not hyperbolous. Even the sin against the Holy Spirit, seems even greater than a sin unto death. However, unless I’m mistaken, it is slightly hyperbolous. Because even though they are told this they still commit the sin and yet Jesus still offers his forgiveness to them later, and then in Acts Peter also offers forgiveness to them seemingly. Perhaps I’m wrong about this, but I wish we would talk about things like this more at the church. If there’s a possibility or a way that I can lose my salvation or extremely hurt it or hinder it I want to know
WHERE does it say that God supposedly killed Ananias and Sapphira ???
The events are recorded in Acts 5. Peter directly connects their deaths to their sin against the Holy Spirit.
They stored their OWN money for some reason.. and they're killed by god for saving some of their own money.. do you seriously consider him as a God 🤷♂️
That's an incomplete summary of the story. There would have been nothing wrong if they did what they did and were honest about it, but their motive was a desire to gain recognition as another had, and they lied about how much they were giving.
Don’t try to manipulate God or his people. Especially when they are on a mission to literally save the world. …It’s not a joke…
That’s probably why they were punished. As Peter says, was not the money your own? Could you not have just kept it all for yourself or truthfully told us how much you were donating? What made you want to lie to God? Did you think you could get away with saying you donated everything you have so that you would get a higher rank within our group and more esteem and then we wrongfully place you as an authority figure because we think you are an honest sincere man who honestly believes in the cause and in Gods all seeing eyes? Imagine promoting a liar and an unbeliever to a position of prominence in the early church? Having a man like that become a leader responsible and entrusted for others money and contributions. Imagine if he was caught in the future and exposed of his deeds, and now all early Christians are disheartened thinking how did God let this happen? And non Christian’s are now thinking bad things about the faith and our God.
1 Chronicles 29:14
Everything comes from you, and we have given you only what comes from your hand.
to be honest we humans have nothing that belongs to us not even our own flesh,soul,spirit
everything a mean everything belongs to God so he does what he pleases
They were not killed for saving some of their own money. Had you watched the whole video and paid attention then you would know that they were killed for lying to God, or as Peter said "why do you blaspheme to the holy ghost?"
A good example of someone not understanding the text or the context.