Oh, I remember the strike, and people going "but it's unfair if the voice actors get royalties but the devs do not!" Yeah, it is. Which is why devs should also get royalties. It's sad that we're still at that spot.
I remember that too. Instead of Devs and Voice actors coming together SAG-AFTRA told the Devs to go kick rocks and form their own union. Devs didn't do that and instead fought pretty hard against SAF-AFTRA getting more money and benefits. SAG-AFTRA could have helped sown the sides of game industry unionization instead we are here watching Sterling complain about Voice actors still not getting paid
Remember kids, the boss has every incentive to pay you as little as possible while working you as hard as possible. Unionize with your fellow workers so you can negotiate for fair pay at a level negotiating table.
@@Dee7nine but the VA in question IS getting paid, this lady was lowballed to get her to walk which is a common practice as shitty as it may be. They went with a union working VA and I would bet money she is getting plenty of pay for the game. Notice how Taylor is eager to tell us that they offered her 4k for the role but hasn't said what she was paid in the last 2 gamed to compare? Why? Because she was paid a proper game VA wage for them and was low Balled for this one with intent and purpose to replace her.
The insane thing is that it was $4000 for a FULL BUYOUT. for comparison, I'm a voice actor and screen actor (sometimes) and I'm currently in the running for a tourism add that needs a 3 to possibly 5 year buyout for use on radio tv and online. I'm looking at £5000 - £7000 for that ONE UK ONLY AD that will only run for a max of 5 years. Batyonetta 3 wil be available for sale indefinetaly, world wide, will be remastered and rereleased in 4k 120fps collection with the other 2 games no doubt. It will generate hundreds of millions. I should not be earning almost twice as much as the lead voice in a AAA video game for doing a single tv ad. That's INSANE. video game voice actors need residuals. We've come a long way since Barry Burton laughing about a Jill Sandwich. Videogame actors ARE actors. I've been hired as a videogame voice actor through online freelancing websites and been paid less than £400 to voice the main villain of a #1 app store iOS game that is also on steam. But it was £400 I couldnt turn down, and somebody else would have done it if had said no. We're also under threat from AI voice generation improving year on year. The unions need to step in NOW.
She's in a union, and so is her replacement actress (the same union IIRC). The £4k offer was a symbolic "We don't want to fire you but we don't want you back." The actress they replaced her with is one of the most famous and prolific actresses in the industry, she's not working for cheap. It's not a case of Nintendo saving money. Don't get me wrong, it's a shitty, underhanded and cowardly move and VA's are underpaid. But this incident isn't a case of terrible pay for the work, it's an issue of Japanese companies being afraid of speaking directly.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 It's also likely the case they were legally and contractually obligated to make her an offer, so they could not just outright say 'Yeah we don't want to work with you anymore'. You see clauses like this a lot, it was likely in her Bayo and Bayo 2 contracts. So they lowballed her because the needed to make an offer and they wanted her to turn it down.
@@MinouHime yep which certainly reinforces the need for improved union contracts. If a sequel has projected sales of "X" based on preorders and sales of the original, then union minimum and buyout should operate on a sliding scale to match. That offer should be a first refusal deal at that new scaled rate.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 Yeah. I *cannot* believe that, if that one clip on the video said was correct, they could get JENNIFER FREAKIN' HALE for four grand, especially with what Andrew Dickson says abotu ball-park pay figures. (I mean, if so, though, seriously, MsMrs/Mz Hale Ma'am, you bein' done; you should be making MCU-actor level money with your talent and its a crying tragedy that proves Jimsteph's point that you aren't beig paid nearly enough in either games or animation.) (Well, truth be known I do think we pay the *top-end* media people (film/sports etc) FAR too much money and that the division between the big name and the bloke who ensurees the big name has a clean loo to poop in and/or cooks the crew lunch should be vastly smaller, but the thrust of my point stands.)
Between this, Crunchyroll breaking out in hives at the mere mention of unions, and Chris Pratt getting to voice Mario, voice actors are getting screwed left and right. Damn shame.
This reminds me how not too long ago Hulu was willing to replace John DiMaggio as Bender in their Futurama reboot. I just don’t get this idea of “Your voice and performance is central to this thing but if you want to get paid decently for it, then we’ll replace you.” It requires a strictly business-minded approach to entertainment that devalues art and performance or it’s a matter of blindness to what makes a work sell. Or, most likely, it’s a combination of the two. I’ve also seen some people propose that Platinum really wanted Jennifer Hale and so they intentionally lowballed Hellena Taylor since there is no way Hale is being paid that low. And going from Hale’s likes on Twitter, she is liking a lot of posts that speculate she can’t comment due to NDAs but was not informed about how Taylor was treated prior to accepting the role. But that is speculation, so I get why that didn’t make it into the video.
Tracking how several prominent VA's feel about things like this, having to not talk about them outright for fear of bring eviscerated out of an entire industry must be *brutal* for some of them. Matt Mercer's sheer walking-on-glass-awkward response to the McCree thing, for example.
Jennifer Hale is one of the VAs that understands situations like this the most since the famous VA strike many years back, she most likely had no clue about what was happening till much later.
@@Pyre To be fair to Mercer, the McCree thing didn't involve him in the slightest, he simply voices the character that happened to be named after a dev who ended up being one of the more fucked up members of Blizzard and a constant presense in the Cosby Suite.
She also liked the Crazy Guys tweets, the one that got suspended. So I think she's trying to cover her ass and sow confusion and throw Taylor under the bus.
@@AzureRoxe JenHale has been liking tweets from another VA talking about how it's a standard good practice to ask about why you're replacing a character's VA. She's also been liking tweets claiming that 4k is the standard and Hellena is being greedy. Take that as you will.
Well according to the recent updates, there's a good chance Taylor had twisted the narrative on what she was actually offered. According to investigation by Jason Schreier, she would have been offered around 4000 dollars per session for 5 separate sessions to voice the character for the whole game, which she refused and proceeded to ask for a six figure pay, which Platinum and/or Nintendo refused and proceeded to reaudition the role. As the narrative goes, they did come back to her later to ask whether she'd still want to do a cameo role in the game, which would have taken her just one recording session and amount to pay of 4000 dollars for that particular means of involvement, which she claimed to have been for her playing the lead role all the way through. Provided this is the truth of the matter, (which by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" I feel we'd ought to proceed with the assumption of, since it is a case of the accused party managing to provide proof of their innocense, reviewed by a third party) even if Helena Taylor had a legitimate reasons to be upset over what she'd been offered, her lying about it, while breaking NDA, throwing Jennifer Hale under the bus and encouraging people to boycott the entire project under false pretences, is decidedly not a good look.
Not a good look all around. 4000 dollars per sessions for 5 sessions still only amounts to 20 000$. For a lead character in a third entry to a blockbuster video game that still feels insultingly low in comparison, and everything said in this video stands. Why she'd choose to lie about that is beyond me.
yeah, I hope steph does a follow up on this one, cause the new info changes this specific case, but it’s still a decent jumping off point to discuss the voice acting industry
@@Linvael 15k + 4k per session in a work where SHE'S NOT EVEN THE MAIN CHARACTER. The MC is supposed to be an alternative version of her in the multiverse who's to be voiced by someone else. THAT'S PRETTY FOOKIN GOOD MATE.
@@Linvael It's the industry standard. Compared to the amount of work programmers, artists and other devs are putting in, she is being paid very, very generously for very easy work.
It's a very Japanese way of ending a business relationship. Japanese companies are hesitant to straight up fire someone. They would usually rather put someone in a position where they have to quit -- for the reasons you outlined.
@@Sayares13 Jennifer hale is quite possibly one of the worst recasts I can think of. Her entire thing is that she’s charmingly awkward, which is not a phrase I would ever use to describe bayonetta 😤
It's highlighted just how bloody awful VA's are treated in the industry, hell ALL VA's (don't get me started on the whole mess with Mob Psycho 100's treatment of the person that voices MOB) Please pay your talent FOR THEIR TALENT!
Well, Crunchyroll issue. A company that started as pirate that actually took money for it. And now law suit everyone else while underpaying their workers.
@@mrcaos999 You really think other companies aren't treating VA's the same? It's not just CR, but they could certainly make a massive difference in the dubbing industry.
@@Haysey_Draws I just think CR are the worst. As they started as Pirates themselve. And now put all their money into taking out other pirates sides rather than paying their worker.
@@mrcaos999 Your issue is more likely with all the buyouts and thus Sony. Their the ones that are calling the shots and have the money to do so, pretty sure anyone from it's original inception have LONG departed. Another cog in the capitalism machine
Not even a day later and you're proven right. Turns out Taylor's a terf and may have straight up lied. Doesn't make Jim's point about voice actors being mistreated wrong, though.
@@benjaminwiniger6216 yeah I agree that VA get the short end of the stick and should get paid more and royalties since they really can elevate the experience. God of war, ghost of tsushima, Spider-Man, xenoblade chronicles 3: none of these would have the same impact without great VAs to bring them to life.
@@benjaminwiniger6216 and I was a little cautious with Helena when I watched all 3 of her videos and she kinda threw the other VA under the bus: if you really want to help VAs in general you would not bring down another VA in your message. I get she was hurt but we should try to choose our words carefully, especially when your future in your career is on the line. She will have a hard time finding work in the future, but im sure she was prepared for that, or I hope she was.
Speaking as someone who has seen similar problems in the anime voice acting community, I have seen this happen to actors who deserve better again and again and it's getting old. You'd think after all of these controversies some of these companies would actually pay their workers properly!
So long as they can hire someone else AND make a profit, companies won't care. If other voice actors show no solidarity, this will continue. So long as consumers remain ignorant or simply refuse to care, this will continue. Companies have no morals or scruples, they couldn't care less about the lives of their employees or consumers, just profit. Greed is God to them. So long as money flows and SOMEONE works for them. They. Won't. Care.
capitalism isn't working if it was go great then why so many suffer and get reward for their hard work and have to work overtime just to get what is minimally owe to them also another thing their tons of lazy people in capitalism who don't want to work like what where told about those people in communism who want to get stuff for nothing expect capitalism sometimes reward those people how ironic
@@Smittumi Depending on there origins a bunch of them do have unions but a lot of issues come up with where and how. Not to mention a bunch of people gatekeep union representation for protectionist reasons ensuring there is an unending supply of non-union workers to get fucked.
Hayter was THE voice of MGS. Voice so iconic that kids would try and mimic it including MYSELF to no avail... It was that unique If that dude was treated that way, imagine how they treat the rest.
Steph is quick to blame Kojima here but I don't think it's his fault. He probably was butting heads with Konami about this, among other things. It was only with MGSV when Kojima was getting sacked anyway that Konami decided to go full FucKonami.
@@Henshingod Steph is "quick to blame Kojima" because according to David Hayter, Kojima had been trying to recast Snake for years. Hayter said he had to re-audition for the role multiple times. MGSV is apparently the game where Kojima finally got someone else to take the role. EDIT: Oh, that was already perfectly covered in the video, and you're just being a dick. Okay.
@@Henshingod seeing as how Kojima is a deluded arrogant weirdo I have absolutely no trouble believing he may have made the call for any number of reasons that our normal minds couldn’t even conceive.
This is partially why I'm worried about only relying on voice acting as my career. It's been life fulfilling so far but im just a jobber in the industry. No one that matters. Unfortunately like all artists you're going to be abused and taken advantage of and it's something that should always be taken into consideration.
But also keep in mind, like all industries, you're going to be abused, so no matter what you set yourself up to do, all voice acting or something lese, prepare for anything that could abuse in your lines of work.
New reports from Bloomberg claimed that Jason Schreier was shown documents that claimed Taylor's claims to be false. The Platinum side of the story claimed that they offered her $4000 per recording session to a total of $16,000 for a four day job. Some voice actors also said that this is the union rate, and sources from within Platinum claimed that she originally asked for a six figures number and some kind of licensing rights. (not too clear on this one) Seems like there's enough here for a part 2.
@@bikerdykefrommars7092 Still goes to show that Stephanie, like a big part of the internet, took Taylor's unverified claims at face value, so I as well would hope this is adressed again.
Voice acting being constantly undervalued as a profession continues to sadden me. Good VAs give life to their characters and make their performance *unforgettable.* Beloved characters are beloved almost always because their voice actor played them perfectly.
Hell, just look at TF2 and the community that still exists around it all these years later. I know the gameplay is pulling a lot of weight, as is the general absurdist writing of the TF2 universe, but it's not the gameplay that typically inspires people to do Gmod and SFM shorts and skits by the _thousands._ It's funny giant Russian man saying "pootis" and obsessing over sandwiches.
People and execs like to think it just comes down to "oh you just read some lines", but it's still ACTING. I'd go so far as to say it's oftentimes more challenging than regular acting because you don't have your entire body to add to your performance, you have to do it all with voice alone. The fact that an excellent VA makes a few grand per role while a talentless Hollywood darling that can't act for shit and just looks pretty makes several MILLION is just depressing.
I remember the VA strike. I also remember how many articles calling VA's greedy because devs get shit on too and compared to devs VA was considered "easy". This all stems from the framing of different types of work as more or less real, skilled or unskilled. work sucks, we all have to do it, and the way people earn a living shouldn't be part of discussion when talking about a living wage.
If a person does more work than another they deserve more pay that's how it works. If you're the one Distributing money you're obviously going to hand out the most money to the people working the hardest that being the developers. You can't pay someone the same amount for doing less work it's only fair.
@@Sinister_Sundown Then devs should also be paid more, not pay everyone less because they're "less important". Also by that logic execs shouldn't be paid at all since they do nothing.
You jumped the gun on that one, hope you will make a follow up less biased. (no harm in my words, I had the same biased view as you before the story was more rigourously fact checked)
they don't have the same visibility. the twitter message will pop each time a new viewer watch the clip? The video is up and unaltered, so the mistake is not corrected. I don't think I'm illogical in my way of thinking about this. There are a lot of truth in the video, but it doesn't mean shit if the premice of the story are just wrong and there is no immediate way to see it. It is about journalistic credibility and duty about the spreading of the news they report, may they be true or false. As said earlier, I'm not saying that to troll or be a pain to a creator, I just believe in rigor and journalistic accountability and I am genuinely interested in debatting How mistake in the public debate should be adressed ethically to diminish any damage they could have made or could still do.
There was no rigorous fact-checking. We've got one person saying they were cheated out of a fair wage and a journalist saying they're lying but that we should totally trust them despite them not being able to provide proof. There is no set conclusion to draw from any of this.
@@yasserchafik3329 Lol. Your tone is fine. Been a major problem with the Video format of RUclips when it comes to news. Can't make a retraction without taking the video down. And if you take it down then you have to put up a new one to address it, with people confused or upset about you being wrong/mistaken or even just reframing the situation with the new information.
@@picklefathernurgle2719 it was proven Ô Master of pestilence : "In the case of Bayonetta 3, the developer appeared to be determined to rehire Taylor, according to two people familiar with the negotiations as well as documentation reviewed by Bloomberg. Here’s where their accounts differ: Platinum Games sought to hire Taylor for at least five sessions, each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours in the studio, said the people, who asked not to be identified because they aren’t authorized to discuss private contract negotiations. " it is the journalistic way to say : Hey if you sue me I have proof, but meanwhile you are not worth burning my sources. And since then VGC came to the same conclusion ^^ ps : Can u bless my army please? it's painted!!!
Hideki Kamiya being temporarily suspended from Twitter is an interesting point to highlight here; his reaction to criticism for mistreatment of employees was so extreme that Twitter was like "Oh, that's not how a human being would act, this account must be a bot." These people in the industry think and act like machines, and they treat their workers just the same. Every worker gets treated as a replaceable cog, they cut corners and, and try to squeeze as much labor from their employees as they can for the lowest amount of pay, because they see the games they produce as little more than an engine they can fine tune to pump out as much profit as efficiently as possible. No consideration for the tireless workers who make the games possible, no thought to the players who enjoy the games, no thought for the artistry of the game itself, only a laser-focus on how much blood they can squeeze from the stone and how much of that crimson ichor they can convert into cold hard cash.
They are not machines. Machines are logical, and treating one's employees with repsect, giving them a decent wage, and listening to criticism are logical as they can be beneficial to running your company. They're worse than machines.
He's also against people speaking languages other than Japanese, apparently... Then here's the question: What is this machine designed to make profit for? Why is profit being made?
He got suspended because he has a running joke of basically blocking anyone who talks to him at all, and the sudden uptick in blocking put him over the automated blocking limit.
Crazy to me how video game voice actors get shafted for their work as characters but any big name screen actor who does the same thing gets a boatload. Guarantee you that every single voice actor in that new Mario movie got their bags.
well honestly often the same reason why wnba players make less than nba players. bayonetta makes a few millions, a generic action movie is planned to and usually makes way more and the actor is on the screen with every inch of his her body. also if keanu reeves was replaced in matrix or wick it would be devastating and make consider if want to ever see it. if the voice was changed for johnny or when it was changed for snake it was "oh shame but ill still get it for sure". sure the difference between 4k for 15 hour game and 5 mil for 2 hour movie is extreme even if actors need to travel and spend days on sets. but i wonder if helen would be ok with 10k because i think that should be the scale. comparing voice and full actors is apples and oranges
@@kallemetsahalme5701 What are you talking about? Why are you comparing on-set performances with voice acting? Big screen name actors do voice acting constantly as well and they get paid far, far better than actual trained VAs simply because of star power. If you hadn't noticed either, video game voice acting is incredibly spotty. Just in Bayonetta 2, a game that has to pay a total of 3 full time voice actors, the little buddhist monk person has an over the top british accent and doesn't suit the character at all. Games are constantly skimping on costs for voice acting because the already meager pay they're willing to pay for highly professional VAs is still too high for them. It's insane.
@@gwen9939 i talked about 2 things but point is stars are stars like in nba. people go to see chris pratt in movies people go to check his performances in animations its a reality of the market.
Oh, you know for a fact they'll have paid her far more. I have no doubt they did it just to have a "bigger" name voicing Bayonetta, despite the fact Helena made that character what it is.
@@LianaSunburster like a David Hayter / Kiefer Sutherland situation on MGS5. But rather than just not contact the original VA they decided to rub her nose in shit first.
@@th3WhiteKnight "Maybe it was the director who struggled thought her, say, attiture to pull something good out of it? We don't know" We do know, because we can just play Bayonetta and see lol We also know that the director has been the one with attitude, as he makes no attempt to hide that fact
@@Bloodglas No, that is merely the culturally accepted excuse. The real reason is plausible deniability and blame-shifting. Corpos gonna corpo, wherever they're from.
Unfortunately voice actors have been striking about this for a long time. It’s not just in the gaming industry, the disparity in pay between non-famous and famous actors is huge. I’m glad you mentioned David Hayter. I believe they tried to explain this away in that the Big Boss in the latest metal gear was a fake snake. That doesn’t explain why Hayter didn’t voice Snake for the Guantanamo Bay mission.
Funny enough, that's the excuse even the fans used for Bayonetta. Since they did the name change, everyone started assuming that it's not the same Bayonetta [which was not helped by some trailers implying alternate worlds and the like], but now we know they just decided to screw over the VA.
The idea that non-famous and famous people should be paid the same is weird. Famous people do bring something to the table. I'm not saying that voice actors shouldn't get a real cut of profits, or that devs shouldn't, because I think both those things are true. I just don't think you have any idea what the actual problem is judging by what you wrote here. It has nothing to do with fame and everything to do with the entire industry of voice actors.
@@MarkoArillius I understand that, but the point is it doesn’t for voice acting. Give me Frank Welker over Hugo Weaving as the voice of Megatron, give me David Hayter over Keifer Sutherland etc. If you have ever played legacy of kain, the voice acting in that is top notch. Better than the Disney crap we get. The point is that there is already a huge disparity in pay the industry. I’m not saying that top guys shouldn’t get the lions share, but other people should at least get a wage that enables them to live. A friend of mine was an actor and had to give it up for a bit and come and work with me for a couple of years as he earned more as an office junior than doing some of the roles in the west end. Luckily he has a decent part now and is earning good money now.
In a perfect world everyone should be paid the same. But if a big name actor is as expensive as a union VA, we know who's going to be getting all the roles. That's just how these careers work. I don't really have a satisfying solution to this other than to say that all VAs should be properly compensated for their time and low-balling to "fire" someone should be illegal. They need a far better reason to let someone go than just "politely" hint that they don't want to work with them anymore.
@@gwen9939 as I said I don’t think everyone should be paid the same, but I do not feel that getting famous people in to do voice acting draws people in, especially in video games. In the case of metal gear, I feel Kojima wanted a well known actor for his own ego rather than to sell more games. The animated version of Spawn is good, but the best video game acting goes to Legacy of Kain in my opinion. Simon Templeton and Tony Jay (RIP) rare exceptional, as is Michael Bell in Soul Reaver. Give me these guys over celebrities any day.
I'm sure it's been said already in these comments but apparently she lied about her total pay. She was gonna get something like 15k in total for 4 sessions at 4 hours each roughly. I'm sad to see the original voice go, and Hideki Kamiya is well known for being a prick. I am however delighted that Jennifer Hale got the role, been a fan since Mass Effect and her resume is just stunning.
Even if it was originally an offer of $15K-20K, it doesn't change the fact that voice actors and devs deserve more of the profits and residuals. The underlying issue is the same as it was in the beforetimes.
@@EmeraldLavigne never once said they didn't. She's in the same union as Jennifer Hale, SAG-AFTRA ensures guaranteed minimum rates and gives it's actors bargaining power for more appropriate wages. It's possible she wanted residuals and she was shot down, and that sucks but like the Commander said, if this game is gonna be boycotted because one actress got the shit end of the stick, then frankly they all should be. I'm also not saying she shouldn't have spoken up (even though she broke an NDA which will probably have shitty ramifications for her career), I just think maybe there could have been a better way to go about it. Because now aside from the game more than likely selling MORE because of all the free press this has brought it, she's made herself look like a salty liar who is pissed that an actress with a storied career took the job.
@@EmeraldLavigne That fact doesn't matter, we're focusing on Hellena Taylor who seemed to have been offered more than industry rate for her role as Bayonetta then lied about it because of a bitter ego.
yeah, seems like she was offered 3-4k per session for multiple sessions but she wanted a hundred k instead. Like, 4 times 3k still sounds a bit naff for how much the franchise makes, but it's a lot better than she originally presented it.
@@Spuzaw I don't think that's fair here. Most of this info only came out after JimSteph uploaded this video and the info only really applies to bayonetta's former VA. The bigger point of VA's being underpaid, underappreciated and generally screwed over (like pretty much anyone in the industry who isn't an executive) still holds true.
@@AW-sx8hm So most of Sterling info came from the personal claims of one single person without any verification of any kind, how is that a justification ? Sterling and everyone should simply shut the fuck up until they get some proper information on the thing they’re reporting.
@@thefrenchpilot the greater point was of industry taking advantage. Even if it's less the case with the voice-onetta than originally thought, the point still holds true. Are you usually this bad at comprehension or are you just pretending to be dim to make an unrelated and irrelevant point?
I can see it now, /Whiney insufferable Jim voice: “so it turns out she was offered 15k for 4 days work last 4 hours… but she still needs to earn 50% of all profits and royalties because I’m a ridiculous communist who hasn’t got a clue what I’m talking about”
Michele Knotz is famously known as the English VA for Jessie in Pokemon. She does the voice of Jessie, and many pokemon like Piplup and Cherubi, but still has to look hard for more roles to keep afloat. It's sad to see someone who loves her job as much as she does still have to keep running full throttle to make ends meet. She is a lovely person and deserves way better. If anyone feels like supporting her or just hanging out with her, she's on Twitch and often goes to cons on the eastern side of the US. Can't speak for where, I just know I've met her in person at at least three cons.
@@Tentegen It is a cool thing, but do keep in mind streaming is a different skill on it's own too. Talking and continuing to talk while playing is not an easy thing to do. Not only is it multitasking, it's improv. It's certainly not impossible for many, but it can be really hard.
Her Jesse voice... Is not so good. Maybe her taking the role back then negatively affected her career? That pokemon recast situation was incredibly scummy
"Don't Scab for the Bosses, Don't listen to their lies" "Us Poor folks aint got a chance unless we organise" Never forget to Unionise! Also Make sure they perform better! Also, All Love to Helena. Love to Jennifer Hale as well cos shes good at her job...
but also maybe no love to Hellena. As a principle she deserves a living wage, but as a person she's a massive terf who allies with anti-abortionists and far-right religious groups, trump supporter, and 'blue lives matter', which is even weirder seeing as she's not even american.
She seems sweet. I haven't played the series but I imagine it would be jarring for anyone who has to hear a voice other than hers behind the main character. Had that problem before with one series, not sure which one though. Maybe that's how they can get away with it, people like me don't even remember the times they changed the actor we liked for one that didn't sound as good. I blame me 😑😃
@@LuigiaTV as someone who's beaten both games I will not be bothered by a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT British voice, who will I assure you, be directed to deliver the lines exactly like the last actress was, do you think that was all her and not the directors direction?
Are we sure she does? On Twitter she publicly refused to say anything in support of transgender rights in the past, when asked. Doesn't excuse the mistreatment, but I would be cautious of painting her as a hero...
(update) as of 10/19/2022. Turns out she lied about the amount she was offered. She was offered 20,000 for 5 sessions instead of the 4k she said she was offered for 5 sessions. Thing is when she was offered 20k she demanded 6 figures. Now i think VA's should be valued and well taken care of but that is a big disparity amounts and she lied about it to gain sympathy. There's still people vehemently defending her saying she deserved the six figures and that the other VA is a scab, like 20k for a total of 5- sessions is way more than 4k claimed for 5. Now it makes sense that Hale may have been offered the same if not slightly more. What irks me is that Taylor's issue was with the management not the other VA yet she throws Hale under the bus and people happily went after her and others who didn't make the decision. This is why unless evidence is irrefutable black and white, always listen to both sides because you never know whether the accused is actually innocent or only partially at fault. It was always suspicious that she said they refused to pay her enough and then replaced her with fucking Jennifer Hale, one of the top voice actresses in the business who definitely wasn't cheap, along with apparently having no problem keeping the equally big Grey DeLisle. And since this is a union production, they naturally should've stepped in if her story was true, right? Things make much more sense now.
This video needs an update with the new information voice actors are still blatantly underpaid in many situations but Helena’s actions have been disgusting as of late
Not really, most of the video is about the broader issues with VA work. All Steph should do imo is pin an update comment outlining the new developments.
@@gamerinatrance3618 Problem is people refuse to talk about this while looking at the other side of the argument. English VA in non English Media is not required. One can still watch/play it with Subtitles. Demanding to get payed more money for something that is not needed will lead to less work overall and make it harder for new people to find work in it. Until someone can make a valid reason as to why they HAVE to be payed more then it wont happen.
I remember the 2015 strike. I remember so many notable VAs signing up to join and support it. And then people were mad at them. Which I thought was weird because I’ve as like “why are you mad at them and not the Industry for paying them so shit?”
They were mad because it might delay them getting their toys on time. Because the VAs were being selfish and greedy, you see. The Gamers tm are not known for self awareness
I remember hearing earlier this month that the voice actor who played Mob in the English dub of Mob Psycho 100 would not be returning for season 3 because crunchyroll would not take a meeting with Sag-Afta. He was fine with the pay cut, fine with the increased hours to do simulcast and working outside of union contract as long as they had a meeting. Crunchyroll refused.
this should probably be amended with the Schrier article out. Hellena straight has offered no proof of her statement, while Schrier, being the best journalist in the industry, did their homework and more than likely shows that Hellena was the one being unreasonable here.
@@yutro213 he got restricted first, then suspended, supposedly Twitter thinking there was something suspicious with that behavior XD *THEN* the whole account disappeared, people don't know if it was Twitter or Kamiya himself ragequitted.
*Boy this video aged like milk, didn't it?* Here's the whole story: • Journalist Jason Schreier from Bloomberg uncovered yesterday that Hellena Taylor had taken some... "liberties" explaining the situation with how she ended up being replaced in Bayonetta 3. • Hellena Taylor had in fact failed to mention that PlatinumGames offered her 15k to 20k for 5 sessions of 4 hours each. She was actually going to get paid $1000 per hour. • PlatinumGames was offering Hellena Taylor a paycheck that was ABOVE the industry standard. They were not lowballing her at all as she had falsely claimed. • Hellena Taylor got greedy and demanded to be paid over $100k and also to get residuals. Fun fact: Nobody in the entire gaming industry pays risiduals to voice actors. Hellena was pushing her luck with that demand. • PlatinumGames balked at the idea of paying 6 figures to a voice actor and also risiduals and instead hired Jennifer Hale. Who was paid the 15k-20k that they previously offered to Hellena. • Hellena then contacted Hideki Kamiya on Twitter by direct mail. It should be said that Kamiya had no control over how much people got paid at PlatinumGames, but he still managed to get the company to offer her a cameo in the game (they had already hired Jennifer Hale at that point) and she would get 4k for that small gig. She again refused. • Hellena then went to Twitter and lied through her teeth about what had happened. She claimed that PlatinumGames had offered her 4k in total for working in the game. Which was a lie. They had in fact offered 4k-5k per session. And there would be 5 sessions in total. So again, she had lied about the situation in order to hit back at PlatinumGames out of spite. And you all fell for it!
Well if that it true, even if her plan has worked and ruined Bayonetta 3's financial chances, she's gone and ruined her career - no one will ever hire her again after this.
@@ImCurrentlyNaked She had no career, she hasn't worked in the VA field for the last decade. Pretty much only done Bayonetta. On the other hand, she tanked her career, cause her career was Bayonetta.
Sterling disappoints with this hasty made video. They should have waited until the other side commented too. Or at least recognize that some of Taylors statements are weird. The new Bayonettas voice actor is a well known and expensive VA actor. So it was obvious the PG not cheapened out. And it is stated by now (from Jason Schreier all well known journalist, who has always facts backing him up) she was offered 20.000$ for 3-4 VA sessions, that is a good payment for hits kind of work. She refused, wanted six digits payment (probably thinking the was irreplaceable) but PG just hired a more professional VA actor instead. So Taylor insulted the new actor and wanted to take Bayonetta series down with her. Judged by their actions taylor is a horrible person and did a lot of harm to VA actors interested.
@@generalerica4123 but there's the issue. If you want to change things you can't use bad examples to do it. It makes your argument look weak and badly planned.
i legit hope that Kamiya comes back to twitter, because i just want to see him get clowned on again and the guy KNOWS NOW that he has to limit how many people he blocks
Remember when they had Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones) voice that robot in Destiny only to have him replaced later? What a waste of money and talent.
@@SidheKnight they replaced him with Nolan North, a VA from the gaming industry who's in basically everything (and is a damn goos VA too). The fact he wasn't their immediate go to when they wanted a VA, or at least not in the top for if anything fell through, shows how a lot of devs are trying to ride on star power over talent
Here's the funny and sad part though, they often don't pay them a ton of money. Because they're often just asked to voice themselves they see it as cheap and easy money and will very often take scale which is the bottom rung SAG rate.
@@SidheKnight Yeah, Destiny 1 was an interesting time for me. I still remember how utterly unenthusiastic Ghost (that's the little bot in question) sounded in that game about everything. Come the time of Destiny 2, and suddenly Ghost has a personality, I didn't know how to handle it for a little while.
This didn't age very well. You shouldn't have made a video suggesting and shitting on things after only hearing one side. A side which just got too greedy, putting her own high income over the livelihood of hundreds of other employees. Because she wanted a six-figure sum for this job, instead of just about 15,000 to 20,000. For a job that takes only 5 sessions, about 25 hours in total. I'm very sorry, but being someone who only gets payed a four-figure sum for the same amount of working hours, where she got offered a five-figure sum and wanted a six-figure sum instead, it is very hard for me to sympathize. And I'm pretty sure that most other developers, designers, animators and so on are more in my league of payment as well.
Embarrassingly I hand't realised they'd swapped out the magnetic voice actress! That's outrageous. She has an absolutely perfect command of the line between haughtily dismissive and knowingly camp. And four grand is utterly pathetic. For one of the most perfect, immediately recognisable voices in gaming _history._ It pains me that I love this series so much that I really can't face bailing on it.
@@th3WhiteKnight no - obviously - it means The Sprawl, just like you and I, hasn't seen the result yet since, y'know, *the game isn't out for a couple more weeks*, and also hadn't read any articles/social media posts/etc about the situation. That your take is on its face incompatible with temporal reality only proves conclusively that you're just trolling.
@@th3WhiteKnight No, it means that the amount of times I heard her voice in the handful of trailers I've allowed myself to watch(I'm trying to go in as fresh as possible) is very small indeed, and therefore it's no wonder that I didn't notice the difference. I said 'embarrassingly' because I was being self-deprecating, taking into account the fact that I call myself a huge fan of Bayo as a series.
@@th3WhiteKnight So because you didn't realise the voice acting was different in a trailer in which she speaks very little, that therefore means the change to the voice acting is indiscernible in general, and it won't be noticed over a twenty-hour-long videogame? What on earth are you talking about.
@@Chepakishui Yep. That's a possibility. I have pre-ordered it though, because I'm a sap for Bayonetta. Also, I guess my social conscience isn't that powerful. Not as powerful as the likes-cool-games part of my conscience anyway.
Kind of reminds me of what Sega did to Ryan Drummond with Sonic. When he was going to reprise his role as Sonic around early 2010. He re-auditioned, they loved his performance, and then... Their higher ups told them Drummond would have to leave his Union, and basically work for free.
The new info (she still confirms that Helena is being underpaid ) doesn’t change that the industry underpays VAs. Which is the point of this video. This is why you finish the video before commenting
@@tsurugi5 Where did I lie? 4K per Session for a Performance that generated insanely much more then that is underpaying. Taylor’s performance is a significant reason why Bayonetta is such an iconic and profitable character.
@@roosty2266 huh? why are people now referring to bayonetta as some blockbuster? the bayonetta games combined barely sold over 3 million, this is getting pathetic man
Kudos for the written review, I enjoyed it as well, was hoping to see a video on it, but I'm guessing we are going to have it mention in this very entertaining format as well. What else are we to expect from Disney, really, a studio's whose creative minds manage to succeed (occasionally) despite its values rather than because of them.
yeah Disney hasn't been the same since Eisner left, Iger was OK but was lacking the humanity Eisner had, Chapek is a corporate stooge who is totally inept and is just lucky that David Zaslav is so much worse by comparison that he doesn't come off as bad.
The problem is that not only do the developers treat VAs as disposable; but as long as other VAs (even up and coming ones) are happy to take these criminally low rates of pay, the situation will never change. Everyone *thinks* they can Voice Act, so they will NEVER have the well run dry on people happy to take the $4000 and call it a day. We as consumers are the ONLY ones who have power to change this dynamic, and have a responsibility to not purchase games that don’t pay their Voice Actors a fair rate. And as long as they are able to, developers will continue to pay EVERYONE (not just the Voice Actors) as little as possible to ensure more profits to the Executives and the Investors.
Well this didn't age well, I like Sterling but I felt this was way too quick to jump on, and it seems that was true and likely no apologies will be issued as more details surface :/
I've been playing GTA IV lately, and I agree the voice acting really had a heavy hand in bringing that game to life and are a big part of what makes it still hold up today.
I like it when voice acting is terrible. Castlevania symphony of the night. Age of empires 2. Resident evil 1. They are so bad that they are good! haha Sadly we wont see such hilarious cringe once again in gaming... Unless they like... Do it super bad on purpose haha. Come on Chris Pratt! Either do mario's voice super good or super bad. What is this meh anyone could have done it stuff???
Seems like the internet jumped the gun and takes a single persons claims at face value. As it seems (per Schreier from Bloomberg), that Helena was not offered 4k total, but 4k per 4h recording session, totalling between 15k and 20k, and Helena Taylor countered the offer requesting a 6-figure sum. But I guess, Helena being the poor exploited victim fits most people's narrative better so barely anyone questioned her claim, even if her calling out Jennifer Hale did lead to Hale being harassed for no fault of her own. I'm sympatic towards the issue regarding Voice Actors in general as this has gotten some attention to this, but I had a weird feeling about Taylor calling out Hale like that, while portraying herself as the victim, when it seems all this is due to her own greed.
It’s amazing how many people get their pitchforks out based on one sided and unverified information. They do it repeatedly and never learn, which is even more baffling to me.
@@kyloctopus Yep but for 1. Even if hellena taylor was mistreated she should not have to gone after the game rather the publisher aka platinum games. Boycotting the game in success would cause a hit in revenue which affects the future emplyment of those employees who had nothing to do with her hiring, so her seeking justice would have hurt more people by a game boycott over the company 2. People tend to forget the phrase innocent until proven guilty 3. I was pretty suspicious from day 1 as platinum game from what i went digging has great reputation among current and former employees, not to mention it was pretty suspicious that she would call a boycott just as the game was about to launch and on the game no less rather than the publisher. 4. Allegedly lying about her own voice actor mistreatement ultimately undermines actual people who have experienced mistreatment within the industry.
Video game industry in general is ran by people who believe that in chase of money, everyone can be replaced if necessary. From designers creating characters, devs bringing them into reality and voice actors bringing life into those characters... For suits they're nothing more than cogs in a machine that can be replaced at any given time once anything undesirable in their eyes happens
@@hemanownsyou That's true, but video games industry is the most guilty of that. You don't hear of massive layoffs in other industries where hundreds of people suddenly find out they're without a job all while bragging about record profits or massive bonuses for execs. Things like these are why unions are important and why video games industry is combating. Unions are there to combat such things and prevent them from happening.
I’m glad to hear you’re doing written stuff again. I still remember laughing my ass off while reading your Horse Racing 2016 review. In fact, I think I’ll go give that one a look again for old time’s sake.
You can just hear the pain in her voice as she spoke. Absolutely heartbroken. I feel for Jennifer Hale too, she likely didn't know the backstory and thought she grabbed a great role out of luck (or something, I don't know).
If Hale turns it down it just goes to someone else, and Hale likely didn't know the backstory and would've assumed that Taylor simply turned down the role. You can't really fault people who're living on a gig economy to turn down big opportunities. If they're put in a position where they have to choose morality over their own financial stability then there's a problem with the system actively exploiting people, not the people who aren't going the extra miles to make the system appear as if it's working ethically.
@@gwen9939 *They are in a union* That's exactly the kind of thing they *have to* talk about, if their union is supposed to successfully uplift all of their member's pay and treatment.
Platinum saying that they offered $3000-$4000 per session for 5 sessions of work. She wanted a 6 figure sum of money and they couldn’t agree and so they found another VA. They approached her after and offered a cameo for which she would be paid $4000 for one session of work. Sad to see her no longer being Bayonetta’s voice, but it looks like she has lied about the situation. And then asked people to boycott and harm the droves of other people who worked on the game.
$3K-$4K for EACH of 5 sessions. Technically she didn't lie, she just omitted the _extremely important_ info about how much time the $4K was for and how much she wanted. Which was obvious to me, and I said as much on this video. JSS just missed that, I guess.
Considering those 5 sessions was also (according to Bloomberg) not the entire game's worth, so if Platinum's version is real, she was very much lying, she specifically said 4K for the whole game- so right now, we don't know
Imma say something crazy: Maybe a game that makes millions should give everyone who actually worked on it more, collectively, than the CEO of the company? Like, could they be slightly less rich for the sake of maintaining the company and it's employees? Just a little less rich? For instance: why even offer that woman $4000. Why not just give her $50000, and take it out of the $12 million bonus the xecutives will get at the end of the year? She gets to pay her rent, they get to still be VERY rich, and everyone stays happy.
@@neon_one_neo3317 Seriously. Even $20000 would have been more reasonable. Offering the voice of your main character for your most successful game series $4000 is like just telling her to her face that she's UTTERLY worthless. I'd have been pissed too.
The voice of Revali remarked that he was paid peanuts for that role as well, despite the game (and role) being extremely iconic and said game making hundreds of millions. He got paid much more for his role in Freedom Planet, an indie game that did fairly well but not even remotely as well as BotW, simply because they gave him residuals in his contract. The whole notion is absurd and SAG-AFTRA should negotiate better! Do you even understand how powerful that union is?!? There’s an argument to be made that they’re the most powerful union in the world simply because every famous actor belongs to it and they demand you use union work! If you piss them off, you’ll be unable to have any famous people in anything you’re a part of, including recurring roles. It’s pretty clear even the union doesn’t respect the work of voice actors. EDIT: After doing a bit of research, I will also add that his name is Sean Chiplock and he was also paid much more for his two lines in the Detective Pikachu movie over all his lines as Revali, Teba, and the Great Deku Tree in BotW and AoC. SAG AFTRA really doesn’t respect video game VAs
I can tell you what Sonic sounds like, I know what Solid Snake sounds like, I have player neither game. I could not tell you what Bayonetta sounds like, Her ass is 1000X more iconic than whatever voice accompanies it.
Why should they get fair pay when I am not getting fairly compensated... Is the most stupid thing out there. It should always be, if they dont get fair pay and I dont either, we both protest
Welp! It seems we might have been lied to by Taylor. I’ll hold my final take on this matter for now but if she played us, she probably gas ended her career at the spot.
Yeah no first time I disagreed with a Jimquisition. Whilst VA's deserve much higher pay, Taylor actually lied about being given 4K for the whole gig. Turns out that it's only for a cameo.
@@roosty2266 According to Jason's Schreier's investigation on the matter, they originally offered Taylor 3 to 4k per session for five separate recording session to do the whole lead role for the game, which she refused and asked for six figure pay instead, which they refused and decided to reaudition the role of Bayonetta instead. After that they approached her asking if she'd still like to do a cameo role in the game, which would have required only one recording session, for which the pay would have still been 4k.
Looks like you may have jumped the gun unfortunately on this one. It appears she was offered 4K per session. That would come out to around 1000 dollars per hour. If that’s not enough compensation your out of your mind!
like all the ppl on twitter too, but is expected, blaming devs and publishers get you the views, ppl forgot that there is always two parts of an argument.... devs are not obligated to cast the same person and pay what that va ask... lmao
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
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Oh, I remember the strike, and people going "but it's unfair if the voice actors get royalties but the devs do not!"
Yeah, it is. Which is why devs should also get royalties. It's sad that we're still at that spot.
That’s why shareholders shouldn’t be the top dogs and quite frankly probably shouldn’t exist
Workers of the world unite
I remember that too. Instead of Devs and Voice actors coming together SAG-AFTRA told the Devs to go kick rocks and form their own union. Devs didn't do that and instead fought pretty hard against SAF-AFTRA getting more money and benefits. SAG-AFTRA could have helped sown the sides of game industry unionization instead we are here watching Sterling complain about Voice actors still not getting paid
Remember kids, the boss has every incentive to pay you as little as possible while working you as hard as possible. Unionize with your fellow workers so you can negotiate for fair pay at a level negotiating table.
@@jmurray1110 'Disco Elysium: ZA/UM's Investors Downfall'?
*If only James Stephanie Stirling...* 🥲
@@Dee7nine but the VA in question IS getting paid, this lady was lowballed to get her to walk which is a common practice as shitty as it may be. They went with a union working VA and I would bet money she is getting plenty of pay for the game. Notice how Taylor is eager to tell us that they offered her 4k for the role but hasn't said what she was paid in the last 2 gamed to compare? Why? Because she was paid a proper game VA wage for them and was low Balled for this one with intent and purpose to replace her.
The insane thing is that it was $4000 for a FULL BUYOUT. for comparison, I'm a voice actor and screen actor (sometimes) and I'm currently in the running for a tourism add that needs a 3 to possibly 5 year buyout for use on radio tv and online. I'm looking at £5000 - £7000 for that ONE UK ONLY AD that will only run for a max of 5 years. Batyonetta 3 wil be available for sale indefinetaly, world wide, will be remastered and rereleased in 4k 120fps collection with the other 2 games no doubt. It will generate hundreds of millions. I should not be earning almost twice as much as the lead voice in a AAA video game for doing a single tv ad. That's INSANE. video game voice actors need residuals. We've come a long way since Barry Burton laughing about a Jill Sandwich. Videogame actors ARE actors. I've been hired as a videogame voice actor through online freelancing websites and been paid less than £400 to voice the main villain of a #1 app store iOS game that is also on steam. But it was £400 I couldnt turn down, and somebody else would have done it if had said no. We're also under threat from AI voice generation improving year on year. The unions need to step in NOW.
She's in a union, and so is her replacement actress (the same union IIRC). The £4k offer was a symbolic "We don't want to fire you but we don't want you back."
The actress they replaced her with is one of the most famous and prolific actresses in the industry, she's not working for cheap. It's not a case of Nintendo saving money.
Don't get me wrong, it's a shitty, underhanded and cowardly move and VA's are underpaid. But this incident isn't a case of terrible pay for the work, it's an issue of Japanese companies being afraid of speaking directly.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 It's also likely the case they were legally and contractually obligated to make her an offer, so they could not just outright say 'Yeah we don't want to work with you anymore'. You see clauses like this a lot, it was likely in her Bayo and Bayo 2 contracts. So they lowballed her because the needed to make an offer and they wanted her to turn it down.
You rock dude! Keep on at it!
@@MinouHime yep which certainly reinforces the need for improved union contracts. If a sequel has projected sales of "X" based on preorders and sales of the original, then union minimum and buyout should operate on a sliding scale to match. That offer should be a first refusal deal at that new scaled rate.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 Yeah. I *cannot* believe that, if that one clip on the video said was correct, they could get JENNIFER FREAKIN' HALE for four grand, especially with what Andrew Dickson says abotu ball-park pay figures.
(I mean, if so, though, seriously, MsMrs/Mz Hale Ma'am, you bein' done; you should be making MCU-actor level money with your talent and its a crying tragedy that proves Jimsteph's point that you aren't beig paid nearly enough in either games or animation.)
(Well, truth be known I do think we pay the *top-end* media people (film/sports etc) FAR too much money and that the division between the big name and the bloke who ensurees the big name has a clean loo to poop in and/or cooks the crew lunch should be vastly smaller, but the thrust of my point stands.)
And this is the best example of wait and see.
Between this, Crunchyroll breaking out in hives at the mere mention of unions, and Chris Pratt getting to voice Mario, voice actors are getting screwed left and right. Damn shame.
Glad someone said it about VO Actors and these Hollywood films in general on the treatment of VO Actors.
Damn shame that I couldn't care less.
@@blackRXrider Ah, the pizza cutter has arrived.
@@blackRXrider and yet you care enough to comment.
@@blackRXrider At least you got the idiom right
This reminds me how not too long ago Hulu was willing to replace John DiMaggio as Bender in their Futurama reboot. I just don’t get this idea of “Your voice and performance is central to this thing but if you want to get paid decently for it, then we’ll replace you.” It requires a strictly business-minded approach to entertainment that devalues art and performance or it’s a matter of blindness to what makes a work sell. Or, most likely, it’s a combination of the two.
I’ve also seen some people propose that Platinum really wanted Jennifer Hale and so they intentionally lowballed Hellena Taylor since there is no way Hale is being paid that low. And going from Hale’s likes on Twitter, she is liking a lot of posts that speculate she can’t comment due to NDAs but was not informed about how Taylor was treated prior to accepting the role. But that is speculation, so I get why that didn’t make it into the video.
Tracking how several prominent VA's feel about things like this, having to not talk about them outright for fear of bring eviscerated out of an entire industry must be *brutal* for some of them.
Matt Mercer's sheer walking-on-glass-awkward response to the McCree thing, for example.
Jennifer Hale is one of the VAs that understands situations like this the most since the famous VA strike many years back, she most likely had no clue about what was happening till much later.
@@Pyre To be fair to Mercer, the McCree thing didn't involve him in the slightest, he simply voices the character that happened to be named after a dev who ended up being one of the more fucked up members of Blizzard and a constant presense in the Cosby Suite.
She also liked the Crazy Guys tweets, the one that got suspended. So I think she's trying to cover her ass and sow confusion and throw Taylor under the bus.
@@AzureRoxe JenHale has been liking tweets from another VA talking about how it's a standard good practice to ask about why you're replacing a character's VA. She's also been liking tweets claiming that 4k is the standard and Hellena is being greedy.
Take that as you will.
Well according to the recent updates, there's a good chance Taylor had twisted the narrative on what she was actually offered. According to investigation by Jason Schreier, she would have been offered around 4000 dollars per session for 5 separate sessions to voice the character for the whole game, which she refused and proceeded to ask for a six figure pay, which Platinum and/or Nintendo refused and proceeded to reaudition the role. As the narrative goes, they did come back to her later to ask whether she'd still want to do a cameo role in the game, which would have taken her just one recording session and amount to pay of 4000 dollars for that particular means of involvement, which she claimed to have been for her playing the lead role all the way through.
Provided this is the truth of the matter, (which by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" I feel we'd ought to proceed with the assumption of, since it is a case of the accused party managing to provide proof of their innocense, reviewed by a third party) even if Helena Taylor had a legitimate reasons to be upset over what she'd been offered, her lying about it, while breaking NDA, throwing Jennifer Hale under the bus and encouraging people to boycott the entire project under false pretences, is decidedly not a good look.
Not a good look all around. 4000 dollars per sessions for 5 sessions still only amounts to 20 000$. For a lead character in a third entry to a blockbuster video game that still feels insultingly low in comparison, and everything said in this video stands. Why she'd choose to lie about that is beyond me.
yeah, I hope steph does a follow up on this one, cause the new info changes this specific case, but it’s still a decent jumping off point to discuss the voice acting industry
@@Linvael a series that sells 1-2 million per entrance tops ain't exactly blockbuster level.
@@Linvael 15k + 4k per session in a work where SHE'S NOT EVEN THE MAIN CHARACTER. The MC is supposed to be an alternative version of her in the multiverse who's to be voiced by someone else. THAT'S PRETTY FOOKIN GOOD MATE.
@@Linvael It's the industry standard. Compared to the amount of work programmers, artists and other devs are putting in, she is being paid very, very generously for very easy work.
My theory is they purposely low balled her so she would say no, they could then go "Ok, we tried. Now we can get the person we want."
It's a very Japanese way of ending a business relationship. Japanese companies are hesitant to straight up fire someone. They would usually rather put someone in a position where they have to quit -- for the reasons you outlined.
That makes a lot of sense, especially because there's no way they're paying Jennifer Hale under 4k.
I think that's literally everyone's theory because this is super common.
Not excusing it, just saying it happens a lot.
@@Sayares13 Jennifer hale is quite possibly one of the worst recasts I can think of. Her entire thing is that she’s charmingly awkward, which is not a phrase I would ever use to describe bayonetta 😤
It wouldn't surprise me. Whatever their reason for it, though, it's still absolutely fucked and ignorant.
It's highlighted just how bloody awful VA's are treated in the industry, hell ALL VA's (don't get me started on the whole mess with Mob Psycho 100's treatment of the person that voices MOB) Please pay your talent FOR THEIR TALENT!
Well, Crunchyroll issue. A company that started as pirate that actually took money for it. And now law suit everyone else while underpaying their workers.
@@mrcaos999 You really think other companies aren't treating VA's the same? It's not just CR, but they could certainly make a massive difference in the dubbing industry.
@@Haysey_Draws I just think CR are the worst. As they started as Pirates themselve. And now put all their money into taking out other pirates sides rather than paying their worker.
@@mrcaos999 Your issue is more likely with all the buyouts and thus Sony. Their the ones that are calling the shots and have the money to do so, pretty sure anyone from it's original inception have LONG departed. Another cog in the capitalism machine
What happened to him?
Hope you follow up on the situation, might be more to it than what we know as story progresses
Not even a day later and you're proven right. Turns out Taylor's a terf and may have straight up lied. Doesn't make Jim's point about voice actors being mistreated wrong, though.
@@benjaminwiniger6216 yeah I agree that VA get the short end of the stick and should get paid more and royalties since they really can elevate the experience. God of war, ghost of tsushima, Spider-Man, xenoblade chronicles 3: none of these would have the same impact without great VAs to bring them to life.
@@benjaminwiniger6216 and I was a little cautious with Helena when I watched all 3 of her videos and she kinda threw the other VA under the bus: if you really want to help VAs in general you would not bring down another VA in your message. I get she was hurt but we should try to choose our words carefully, especially when your future in your career is on the line. She will have a hard time finding work in the future, but im sure she was prepared for that, or I hope she was.
Exactly
I see no follow ups from anyone who took Ms. Taylor's side 1st.
Speaking as someone who has seen similar problems in the anime voice acting community, I have seen this happen to actors who deserve better again and again and it's getting old. You'd think after all of these controversies some of these companies would actually pay their workers properly!
So long as they can hire someone else AND make a profit, companies won't care.
If other voice actors show no solidarity, this will continue.
So long as consumers remain ignorant or simply refuse to care, this will continue.
Companies have no morals or scruples, they couldn't care less about the lives of their employees or consumers, just profit.
Greed is God to them.
So long as money flows and SOMEONE works for them.
They.
Won't.
Care.
capitalism isn't working if it was go great then why so many suffer and get reward for their hard work and have to work overtime just to get what is minimally owe to them also another thing their tons of lazy people in capitalism who don't want to work like what where told about those people in communism who want to get stuff for nothing expect capitalism sometimes reward those people how ironic
Animator but the problem that make it worst for Japan its the stupid conformity culture and they have corporate culture along with it too
@Xyon 21 I know change doesn't happen overnight. But I wish some steps could be taken to improve conditions regardless.
@@Simmons8519 Don't ask questions, consume product and get excited for next product.
Voice actors get consistently fucked over and it's so maddening. Thanks for covering commander
These guys need a union.
@Xyon 21 Seeing that word hurt me for a second. I think you mean "damned."
Unless you're that Nathan Drake or Jennifer Hale. The only 2 voice actors in gaming that get treated right lol.
@@Smittumi Depending on there origins a bunch of them do have unions but a lot of issues come up with where and how. Not to mention a bunch of people gatekeep union representation for protectionist reasons ensuring there is an unending supply of non-union workers to get fucked.
@Xyon 21 "It's a me, celebrity voice!"
Well this aged like milk
No, this comment did🙄
Except it didn't age like milk at all, as voice actors still deserve a living wage regardless of their political stance.
@emmajones752 4 grand per recording session which lasted about 6 hours...are you earning $666 an hour at your job cos I doubt it
@@kingofgames2992 Yes.
@@RioFerdiBland is your job as easy as talking into a mic?
Hayter was THE voice of MGS. Voice so iconic that kids would try and mimic it including MYSELF to no avail... It was that unique
If that dude was treated that way, imagine how they treat the rest.
Steph is quick to blame Kojima here but I don't think it's his fault. He probably was butting heads with Konami about this, among other things. It was only with MGSV when Kojima was getting sacked anyway that Konami decided to go full FucKonami.
@@Henshingod heh, seeing how Kojima loves his hollywood celebrities, i think it's entirely possible that he was the instigator of that change
@@Henshingod Steph is "quick to blame Kojima" because according to David Hayter, Kojima had been trying to recast Snake for years. Hayter said he had to re-audition for the role multiple times. MGSV is apparently the game where Kojima finally got someone else to take the role.
EDIT: Oh, that was already perfectly covered in the video, and you're just being a dick. Okay.
@@Henshingod seeing as how Kojima is a deluded arrogant weirdo I have absolutely no trouble believing he may have made the call for any number of reasons that our normal minds couldn’t even conceive.
@@oceanelambert2507 Yeah, you only have to look at the cast of Death Stranding to see his love of celebrities. Kojima has gone full Hollywood now.
This is partially why I'm worried about only relying on voice acting as my career. It's been life fulfilling so far but im just a jobber in the industry. No one that matters.
Unfortunately like all artists you're going to be abused and taken advantage of and it's something that should always be taken into consideration.
But also keep in mind, like all industries, you're going to be abused, so no matter what you set yourself up to do, all voice acting or something lese, prepare for anything that could abuse in your lines of work.
Same my dude, same, radio and broadcasting media degree, haven't touched a VA job since aut14, it's just not reliable.
Any examples of stuff you’ve done?
She lied, she wanted 6 figures for work, when she was offered $1k/hr for 20hrs total.
New reports from Bloomberg claimed that Jason Schreier was shown documents that claimed Taylor's claims to be false. The Platinum side of the story claimed that they offered her $4000 per recording session to a total of $16,000 for a four day job. Some voice actors also said that this is the union rate, and sources from within Platinum claimed that she originally asked for a six figures number and some kind of licensing rights. (not too clear on this one)
Seems like there's enough here for a part 2.
Disappointing that Stephanie didn't address this aspect, whether or not it is actually true.
@@bryanfraser3527 This video predates that report by a day at least, so that'd be why
@@bikerdykefrommars7092 Still goes to show that Stephanie, like a big part of the internet, took Taylor's unverified claims at face value, so I as well would hope this is adressed again.
@@bryanfraser3527 video was likely done and being edited as the news broke, honestly I think the news came out right after this was posted.
It was wild to see all the commentary that exploded before Bloomberg dropped their bomb in this story.
14:20 "You have to Boycott literally every single mainstream game"
This shouldn't be a warning, should be a call to action.
Pretty sure he didn't mean it as a warning anyway.
It always has been. Stop simping for electronic computer toys. They are not art.
@@ChunkSchuldinga they are to the same degree movies are
@@ChunkSchuldinga bruh
@@ChunkSchuldinga 'Disco Elysium: ZA/UM's Investors Downfall'?
*If only James Stephanie Stirling...* 🥲'Disco Elysium: ZA/UM's Investors Downfall'?
Thanks to you the word "prawns" has become a jump scare to me, so thanks for that
Prawns, shrimps, lobsters. All pretty terrifying imo 🤷♂
Imagine them 50 feet tall. Now you're scared! 😁
You think that's bad? I can't hear the word "however" without thinking of a prawn.
I was just wondering, what IS to their obsession with prawns?
TW: Prawns
prawns are a joke. Boiled crabs r where it's at!
well this video became outdated faster than a ticktock dance
Yea she sucks now.
Voice acting being constantly undervalued as a profession continues to sadden me. Good VAs give life to their characters and make their performance *unforgettable.* Beloved characters are beloved almost always because their voice actor played them perfectly.
Good voice actors get me to watch dub over sub and that's no small feat.
Hell, just look at TF2 and the community that still exists around it all these years later. I know the gameplay is pulling a lot of weight, as is the general absurdist writing of the TF2 universe, but it's not the gameplay that typically inspires people to do Gmod and SFM shorts and skits by the _thousands._
It's funny giant Russian man saying "pootis" and obsessing over sandwiches.
@@Lastofthefreenames This.
I don't think people understand how demanding it is and how people continue training and networking no matter how successful they are.
People and execs like to think it just comes down to "oh you just read some lines", but it's still ACTING. I'd go so far as to say it's oftentimes more challenging than regular acting because you don't have your entire body to add to your performance, you have to do it all with voice alone. The fact that an excellent VA makes a few grand per role while a talentless Hollywood darling that can't act for shit and just looks pretty makes several MILLION is just depressing.
It's been seven years and Steph will still never forget to clarify "not ubisoft iconic"
But they're forgetting THE HAT!
Steph clarifying that it's actually iconic not Ubisoft iconic is iconic. Actually iconic, not Ubisoft iconic.
Ironically the watch dogs fox symbol is basically embedded in my head, in part from that video and in part because I just actually liked Watch Dogs.
@@mjc0961 We need more layers to this iconic cake.
When can we expect an addendum to this video given everything that's come out regarding the situation?
I remember the VA strike. I also remember how many articles calling VA's greedy because devs get shit on too and compared to devs VA was considered "easy". This all stems from the framing of different types of work as more or less real, skilled or unskilled. work sucks, we all have to do it, and the way people earn a living shouldn't be part of discussion when talking about a living wage.
They literally think voice actors just talk into a mic and call it a day.
If a person does more work than another they deserve more pay that's how it works. If you're the one Distributing money you're obviously going to hand out the most money to the people working the hardest that being the developers. You can't pay someone the same amount for doing less work it's only fair.
@@Sinister_Sundown everyone deserves to be paid a living wage though
@@Sinister_Sundown Then devs should also be paid more, not pay everyone less because they're "less important". Also by that logic execs shouldn't be paid at all since they do nothing.
You jumped the gun on that one, hope you will make a follow up less biased. (no harm in my words, I had the same biased view as you before the story was more rigourously fact checked)
they don't have the same visibility. the twitter message will pop each time a new viewer watch the clip? The video is up and unaltered, so the mistake is not corrected. I don't think I'm illogical in my way of thinking about this.
There are a lot of truth in the video, but it doesn't mean shit if the premice of the story are just wrong and there is no immediate way to see it. It is about journalistic credibility and duty about the spreading of the news they report, may they be true or false.
As said earlier, I'm not saying that to troll or be a pain to a creator, I just believe in rigor and journalistic accountability and I am genuinely interested in debatting How mistake in the public debate should be adressed ethically to diminish any damage they could have made or could still do.
Sorry for my bad english, I hope My tone isn't a jerky one :)
There was no rigorous fact-checking. We've got one person saying they were cheated out of a fair wage and a journalist saying they're lying but that we should totally trust them despite them not being able to provide proof. There is no set conclusion to draw from any of this.
@@yasserchafik3329 Lol. Your tone is fine. Been a major problem with the Video format of RUclips when it comes to news. Can't make a retraction without taking the video down. And if you take it down then you have to put up a new one to address it, with people confused or upset about you being wrong/mistaken or even just reframing the situation with the new information.
@@picklefathernurgle2719 it was proven Ô Master of pestilence : "In the case of Bayonetta 3, the developer appeared to be determined to rehire Taylor, according to two people familiar with the negotiations as well as documentation reviewed by Bloomberg. Here’s where their accounts differ: Platinum Games sought to hire Taylor for at least five sessions, each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours in the studio, said the people, who asked not to be identified because they aren’t authorized to discuss private contract negotiations. "
it is the journalistic way to say : Hey if you sue me I have proof, but meanwhile you are not worth burning my sources.
And since then VGC came to the same conclusion ^^
ps : Can u bless my army please? it's painted!!!
Hideki Kamiya being temporarily suspended from Twitter is an interesting point to highlight here; his reaction to criticism for mistreatment of employees was so extreme that Twitter was like "Oh, that's not how a human being would act, this account must be a bot." These people in the industry think and act like machines, and they treat their workers just the same. Every worker gets treated as a replaceable cog, they cut corners and, and try to squeeze as much labor from their employees as they can for the lowest amount of pay, because they see the games they produce as little more than an engine they can fine tune to pump out as much profit as efficiently as possible. No consideration for the tireless workers who make the games possible, no thought to the players who enjoy the games, no thought for the artistry of the game itself, only a laser-focus on how much blood they can squeeze from the stone and how much of that crimson ichor they can convert into cold hard cash.
They are not machines. Machines are logical, and treating one's employees with repsect, giving them a decent wage, and listening to criticism are logical as they can be beneficial to running your company.
They're worse than machines.
He's also against people speaking languages other than Japanese, apparently...
Then here's the question: What is this machine designed to make profit for? Why is profit being made?
He got suspended because he has a running joke of basically blocking anyone who talks to him at all, and the sudden uptick in blocking put him over the automated blocking limit.
Extremely well put
@@ASpaceOstrich He is still an asshole tho.
Crazy to me how video game voice actors get shafted for their work as characters but any big name screen actor who does the same thing gets a boatload. Guarantee you that every single voice actor in that new Mario movie got their bags.
well honestly often the same reason why wnba players make less than nba players. bayonetta makes a few millions, a generic action movie is planned to and usually makes way more and the actor is on the screen with every inch of his her body. also if keanu reeves was replaced in matrix or wick it would be devastating and make consider if want to ever see it. if the voice was changed for johnny or when it was changed for snake it was "oh shame but ill still get it for sure".
sure the difference between 4k for 15 hour game and 5 mil for 2 hour movie is extreme even if actors need to travel and spend days on sets. but i wonder if helen would be ok with 10k because i think that should be the scale. comparing voice and full actors is apples and oranges
@@kallemetsahalme5701 What are you talking about? Why are you comparing on-set performances with voice acting? Big screen name actors do voice acting constantly as well and they get paid far, far better than actual trained VAs simply because of star power. If you hadn't noticed either, video game voice acting is incredibly spotty. Just in Bayonetta 2, a game that has to pay a total of 3 full time voice actors, the little buddhist monk person has an over the top british accent and doesn't suit the character at all. Games are constantly skimping on costs for voice acting because the already meager pay they're willing to pay for highly professional VAs is still too high for them. It's insane.
@@gwen9939 i talked about 2 things but point is stars are stars like in nba. people go to see chris pratt in movies people go to check his performances in animations its a reality of the market.
@@kallemetsahalme5701 You spent all that time and words yet you still managed to contribute nothing useful to the subject.
@@Zamibia as if any youtube comments are useful
Well this video aged well....
It's fun to watch now. Like a movie with a big twist
Did they get Jen Hale to voice the character for $4000? Seems like she would be more expensive.
Oh, you know for a fact they'll have paid her far more. I have no doubt they did it just to have a "bigger" name voicing Bayonetta, despite the fact Helena made that character what it is.
@@LianaSunburster like a David Hayter / Kiefer Sutherland situation on MGS5. But rather than just not contact the original VA they decided to rub her nose in shit first.
@@th3WhiteKnight do you think we live in a meritocracy?
@@th3WhiteKnight "Maybe it was the director who struggled thought her, say, attiture to pull something good out of it? We don't know"
We do know, because we can just play Bayonetta and see lol
We also know that the director has been the one with attitude, as he makes no attempt to hide that fact
@@LianaSunburster: pretty sure no VA in the west has enough star power for their popularity to matter.
Unionize Videogame Voice Actors (properly)!
QA Union-VA Union solidarity is what I need in my life more than a Sterling OF subscription
Isn't that called Sag-Afta?
It feels like we all need unions and communes more each day.
They have a union. Their union just sucks.
We need good unions
This video age like milk... Found out that she actually lied about the pay wage...
@@Groudon0199 Yea actually 4,000 for four hours in the studio isn’t underpaid
@@Groudon0199 yes
@@Groudon0199 Yes every word in this video is wrong.
@@dannypatrick9361 so David Hayter never had to audition for snake again more then once?
He wasn’t cut from MGSV?
@@dannypatrick9361 So voice actors aren't treated like shit?
This is classic japanese quiet-firing tecniques. They don't want you, so they make an absurd deal to make your decision to leave
the way it's viewed there is to "save their honor." instead of giving the employee the shame of being fired, they allow them to "choose" to quit.
@@Bloodglas No, that is merely the culturally accepted excuse. The real reason is plausible deniability and blame-shifting. Corpos gonna corpo, wherever they're from.
@@maximsavage this is way more common in japan thoe
Unfortunately voice actors have been striking about this for a long time. It’s not just in the gaming industry, the disparity in pay between non-famous and famous actors is huge. I’m glad you mentioned David Hayter. I believe they tried to explain this away in that the Big Boss in the latest metal gear was a fake snake. That doesn’t explain why Hayter didn’t voice Snake for the Guantanamo Bay mission.
Funny enough, that's the excuse even the fans used for Bayonetta.
Since they did the name change, everyone started assuming that it's not the same Bayonetta [which was not helped by some trailers implying alternate worlds and the like], but now we know they just decided to screw over the VA.
The idea that non-famous and famous people should be paid the same is weird. Famous people do bring something to the table. I'm not saying that voice actors shouldn't get a real cut of profits, or that devs shouldn't, because I think both those things are true. I just don't think you have any idea what the actual problem is judging by what you wrote here. It has nothing to do with fame and everything to do with the entire industry of voice actors.
@@MarkoArillius I understand that, but the point is it doesn’t for voice acting. Give me Frank Welker over Hugo Weaving as the voice of Megatron, give me David Hayter over Keifer Sutherland etc. If you have ever played legacy of kain, the voice acting in that is top notch. Better than the Disney crap we get. The point is that there is already a huge disparity in pay the industry. I’m not saying that top guys shouldn’t get the lions share, but other people should at least get a wage that enables them to live. A friend of mine was an actor and had to give it up for a bit and come and work with me for a couple of years as he earned more as an office junior than doing some of the roles in the west end. Luckily he has a decent part now and is earning good money now.
In a perfect world everyone should be paid the same. But if a big name actor is as expensive as a union VA, we know who's going to be getting all the roles. That's just how these careers work. I don't really have a satisfying solution to this other than to say that all VAs should be properly compensated for their time and low-balling to "fire" someone should be illegal. They need a far better reason to let someone go than just "politely" hint that they don't want to work with them anymore.
@@gwen9939 as I said I don’t think everyone should be paid the same, but I do not feel that getting famous people in to do voice acting draws people in, especially in video games. In the case of metal gear, I feel Kojima wanted a well known actor for his own ego rather than to sell more games. The animated version of Spawn is good, but the best video game acting goes to Legacy of Kain in my opinion. Simon Templeton and Tony Jay (RIP) rare exceptional, as is Michael Bell in Soul Reaver. Give me these guys over celebrities any day.
I'm sure it's been said already in these comments but apparently she lied about her total pay. She was gonna get something like 15k in total for 4 sessions at 4 hours each roughly.
I'm sad to see the original voice go, and Hideki Kamiya is well known for being a prick. I am however delighted that Jennifer Hale got the role, been a fan since Mass Effect and her resume is just stunning.
Even if it was originally an offer of $15K-20K, it doesn't change the fact that voice actors and devs deserve more of the profits and residuals.
The underlying issue is the same as it was in the beforetimes.
@@EmeraldLavigne never once said they didn't. She's in the same union as Jennifer Hale, SAG-AFTRA ensures guaranteed minimum rates and gives it's actors bargaining power for more appropriate wages. It's possible she wanted residuals and she was shot down, and that sucks but like the Commander said, if this game is gonna be boycotted because one actress got the shit end of the stick, then frankly they all should be.
I'm also not saying she shouldn't have spoken up (even though she broke an NDA which will probably have shitty ramifications for her career), I just think maybe there could have been a better way to go about it. Because now aside from the game more than likely selling MORE because of all the free press this has brought it, she's made herself look like a salty liar who is pissed that an actress with a storied career took the job.
@@EmeraldLavigne That fact doesn't matter, we're focusing on Hellena Taylor who seemed to have been offered more than industry rate for her role as Bayonetta then lied about it because of a bitter ego.
Curious if Jim will go back to this now that the situation is quickly evolving.
yeah, seems like she was offered 3-4k per session for multiple sessions but she wanted a hundred k instead.
Like, 4 times 3k still sounds a bit naff for how much the franchise makes, but it's a lot better than she originally presented it.
Jim doesn't know how to admit when they are wrong.
Jim jumped on a bandwagon without knowing if it was true or not. Jim's a terrible game journalist.
@@Spuzaw I don't think that's fair here.
Most of this info only came out after JimSteph uploaded this video and the info only really applies to bayonetta's former VA.
The bigger point of VA's being underpaid, underappreciated and generally screwed over (like pretty much anyone in the industry who isn't an executive) still holds true.
@@AW-sx8hm So most of Sterling info came from the personal claims of one single person without any verification of any kind, how is that a justification ? Sterling and everyone should simply shut the fuck up until they get some proper information on the thing they’re reporting.
@@thefrenchpilot the greater point was of industry taking advantage.
Even if it's less the case with the voice-onetta than originally thought, the point still holds true.
Are you usually this bad at comprehension or are you just pretending to be dim to make an unrelated and irrelevant point?
This needs a follow up. A mention on the next Jimquisition, at the very least. At the start, not the end.
I can see it now,
/Whiney insufferable Jim voice: “so it turns out she was offered 15k for 4 days work last 4 hours… but she still needs to earn 50% of all profits and royalties because I’m a ridiculous communist who hasn’t got a clue what I’m talking about”
Michele Knotz is famously known as the English VA for Jessie in Pokemon. She does the voice of Jessie, and many pokemon like Piplup and Cherubi, but still has to look hard for more roles to keep afloat. It's sad to see someone who loves her job as much as she does still have to keep running full throttle to make ends meet. She is a lovely person and deserves way better.
If anyone feels like supporting her or just hanging out with her, she's on Twitch and often goes to cons on the eastern side of the US. Can't speak for where, I just know I've met her in person at at least three cons.
Lol dqmn! My biggest question for the longest time was why DONT more VAs livestream? They would do an amazing job.
@@Tentegen It is a cool thing, but do keep in mind streaming is a different skill on it's own too. Talking and continuing to talk while playing is not an easy thing to do. Not only is it multitasking, it's improv. It's certainly not impossible for many, but it can be really hard.
Her Jesse voice... Is not so good. Maybe her taking the role back then negatively affected her career? That pokemon recast situation was incredibly scummy
Oops, she was lying about the whole thing and was just salty they replaced her... Oof
"Don't Scab for the Bosses, Don't listen to their lies"
"Us Poor folks aint got a chance unless we organise"
Never forget to Unionise!
Also Make sure they perform better!
Also, All Love to Helena.
Love to Jennifer Hale as well cos shes good at her job...
but also maybe no love to Hellena. As a principle she deserves a living wage, but as a person she's a massive terf who allies with anti-abortionists and far-right religious groups, trump supporter, and 'blue lives matter', which is even weirder seeing as she's not even american.
@@gwen9939 really?
That's very disappointing.
yeaah about that. Looks like Helen lied about all of that and just created drama after failed extortion. I belive Jason more than Helen and Jim.
The way this aged so badly in not even two days since this was posted
Helena deserves so so much fucking better❤- workers deserve better than the utter clown shit that’s occurring with these companies..
She seems sweet. I haven't played the series but I imagine it would be jarring for anyone who has to hear a voice other than hers behind the main character. Had that problem before with one series, not sure which one though. Maybe that's how they can get away with it, people like me don't even remember the times they changed the actor we liked for one that didn't sound as good. I blame me 😑😃
@@pseudonayme7717 it genuinely won't be, she'll still sound like a British woman, very little is being lost.
@@asksalottle220 Its jarring lol. Do you think sounding British was all there was to that performance? There's a noticeable difference.
@@LuigiaTV as someone who's beaten both games I will not be bothered by a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT British voice, who will I assure you, be directed to deliver the lines exactly like the last actress was, do you think that was all her and not the directors direction?
Are we sure she does? On Twitter she publicly refused to say anything in support of transgender rights in the past, when asked. Doesn't excuse the mistreatment, but I would be cautious of painting her as a hero...
Time for a follow-up video.
(update) as of 10/19/2022. Turns out she lied about the amount she was offered. She was offered 20,000 for 5 sessions instead of the 4k she said she was offered for 5 sessions. Thing is when she was offered 20k she demanded 6 figures. Now i think VA's should be valued and well taken care of but that is a big disparity amounts and she lied about it to gain sympathy. There's still people vehemently defending her saying she deserved the six figures and that the other VA is a scab, like 20k for a total of 5- sessions is way more than 4k claimed for 5. Now it makes sense that Hale may have been offered the same if not slightly more. What irks me is that Taylor's issue was with the management not the other VA yet she throws Hale under the bus and people happily went after her and others who didn't make the decision. This is why unless evidence is irrefutable black and white, always listen to both sides because you never know whether the accused is actually innocent or only partially at fault. It was always suspicious that she said they refused to pay her enough and then replaced her with fucking Jennifer Hale, one of the top voice actresses in the business who definitely wasn't cheap, along with apparently having no problem keeping the equally big Grey DeLisle. And since this is a union production, they naturally should've stepped in if her story was true, right?
Things make much more sense now.
This video needs an update with the new information voice actors are still blatantly underpaid in many situations but Helena’s actions have been disgusting as of late
They may mention it in this week or next week’s video but I doubt they will take back the criticism of Nintendo in this video.
Nah, why would enthusiast video game media take back their uneducated, incomplete, emotionally-charged and biased hot takes?
Welp, considering the update we got this video aged like milk in the sun
Not really, most of the video is about the broader issues with VA work. All Steph should do imo is pin an update comment outlining the new developments.
@@gamerinatrance3618 Problem is people refuse to talk about this while looking at the other side of the argument. English VA in non English Media is not required. One can still watch/play it with Subtitles. Demanding to get payed more money for something that is not needed will lead to less work overall and make it harder for new people to find work in it. Until someone can make a valid reason as to why they HAVE to be payed more then it wont happen.
I remember the 2015 strike. I remember so many notable VAs signing up to join and support it. And then people were mad at them. Which I thought was weird because I’ve as like “why are you mad at them and not the Industry for paying them so shit?”
Probably a lot of young people and also people don't like to be inconvenienced, it matters only if it's happening to them.
And also the 2017 strike too
I mean, just watch jim's videos on the crunch culture, they get a lot of hate 'till this very day.
@@endless2239 oh I’ve been watching for a while. We both could go on. I was just focusing on the voice actor situation in particular
They were mad because it might delay them getting their toys on time.
Because the VAs were being selfish and greedy, you see.
The Gamers tm are not known for self awareness
I remember hearing earlier this month that the voice actor who played Mob in the English dub of Mob Psycho 100 would not be returning for season 3 because crunchyroll would not take a meeting with Sag-Afta.
He was fine with the pay cut, fine with the increased hours to do simulcast and working outside of union contract as long as they had a meeting. Crunchyroll refused.
Good ol' Crunchyroll, always giving back to the industry /s
this should probably be amended with the Schrier article out.
Hellena straight has offered no proof of her statement, while Schrier, being the best journalist in the industry, did their homework and more than likely shows that Hellena was the one being unreasonable here.
might be addressed in the upcoming days, I think stephanie mentioned it on twitter a bit too
The irony of Hideki Kamiya getting blocked by Twitter for blocking other people is just hilariously brilliant! 🤣
Didn't he just delete his own account, though?
@@yutro213 Idk, I don't follow the guy. I just know about him from Nick Robinson's video.
Yeah it was hilarious lmao
@@yutro213 he got restricted first, then suspended, supposedly Twitter thinking there was something suspicious with that behavior XD *THEN* the whole account disappeared, people don't know if it was Twitter or Kamiya himself ragequitted.
@@yutro213 Maybe eventually? But Twitter definitely suspended his account due to suspicious activity.
New updates to this does not age this vid well lol
*Boy this video aged like milk, didn't it?*
Here's the whole story:
• Journalist Jason Schreier from Bloomberg uncovered yesterday that Hellena Taylor had taken some... "liberties" explaining the situation with how she ended up being replaced in Bayonetta 3.
• Hellena Taylor had in fact failed to mention that PlatinumGames offered her 15k to 20k for 5 sessions of 4 hours each. She was actually going to get paid $1000 per hour.
• PlatinumGames was offering Hellena Taylor a paycheck that was ABOVE the industry standard. They were not lowballing her at all as she had falsely claimed.
• Hellena Taylor got greedy and demanded to be paid over $100k and also to get residuals. Fun fact: Nobody in the entire gaming industry pays risiduals to voice actors. Hellena was pushing her luck with that demand.
• PlatinumGames balked at the idea of paying 6 figures to a voice actor and also risiduals and instead hired Jennifer Hale. Who was paid the 15k-20k that they previously offered to Hellena.
• Hellena then contacted Hideki Kamiya on Twitter by direct mail. It should be said that Kamiya had no control over how much people got paid at PlatinumGames, but he still managed to get the company to offer her a cameo in the game (they had already hired Jennifer Hale at that point) and she would get 4k for that small gig. She again refused.
• Hellena then went to Twitter and lied through her teeth about what had happened. She claimed that PlatinumGames had offered her 4k in total for working in the game. Which was a lie. They had in fact offered 4k-5k per session. And there would be 5 sessions in total. So again, she had lied about the situation in order to hit back at PlatinumGames out of spite.
And you all fell for it!
Yep. That's about it.
Well if that it true, even if her plan has worked and ruined Bayonetta 3's financial chances, she's gone and ruined her career - no one will ever hire her again after this.
@@ImCurrentlyNaked She had no career, she hasn't worked in the VA field for the last decade. Pretty much only done Bayonetta.
On the other hand, she tanked her career, cause her career was Bayonetta.
This
Sterling disappoints with this hasty made video. They should have waited until the other side commented too. Or at least recognize that some of Taylors statements are weird. The new Bayonettas voice actor is a well known and expensive VA actor. So it was obvious the PG not cheapened out. And it is stated by now (from Jason Schreier all well known journalist, who has always facts backing him up) she was offered 20.000$ for 3-4 VA sessions, that is a good payment for hits kind of work. She refused, wanted six digits payment (probably thinking the was irreplaceable) but PG just hired a more professional VA actor instead. So Taylor insulted the new actor and wanted to take Bayonetta series down with her. Judged by their actions taylor is a horrible person and did a lot of harm to VA actors interested.
Well the point still stands, even if the example here is a bad one.
@@generalerica4123 but there's the issue. If you want to change things you can't use bad examples to do it. It makes your argument look weak and badly planned.
@@generalerica4123 no it dosent you get paid what you worked she just lied to get more money and try to dump the entire studio
@@Dantevonlocke May be, but its still a correct argument.
@@jd2792 Yes and because she did so, every voice actor deserves disgusting pay?
Just exactly how thick are you?
Except now report says she lied 🤣
i legit hope that Kamiya comes back to twitter, because i just want to see him get clowned on again and the guy KNOWS NOW that he has to limit how many people he blocks
Oh that is a fate worse than death for him. A limit on blocks 🤣
And then studios blow massive loads of money into the face of some Hollywood star to voice a character that doesn't fit them at all. Classic.
Remember when they had Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones) voice that robot in Destiny only to have him replaced later? What a waste of money and talent.
@@SidheKnight they replaced him with Nolan North, a VA from the gaming industry who's in basically everything (and is a damn goos VA too).
The fact he wasn't their immediate go to when they wanted a VA, or at least not in the top for if anything fell through, shows how a lot of devs are trying to ride on star power over talent
Here's the funny and sad part though, they often don't pay them a ton of money. Because they're often just asked to voice themselves they see it as cheap and easy money and will very often take scale which is the bottom rung SAG rate.
@@SidheKnight Yeah, Destiny 1 was an interesting time for me. I still remember how utterly unenthusiastic Ghost (that's the little bot in question) sounded in that game about everything.
Come the time of Destiny 2, and suddenly Ghost has a personality, I didn't know how to handle it for a little while.
There are sources saying they offered her 4000 dollars for multiple recording sessions. So she'd have made 4 grand each time she went in.
Yea, six figures plus residuals. According to a new report.
This didn't age the best. Points made in it still true though.
You really could not patiently wait to see if more information came out and you just instantly believed one side of the story.
#believeallwoman lol
Aged like shit in the hot summer
This didn't age very well.
You shouldn't have made a video suggesting and shitting on things after only hearing one side. A side which just got too greedy, putting her own high income over the livelihood of hundreds of other employees. Because she wanted a six-figure sum for this job, instead of just about 15,000 to 20,000. For a job that takes only 5 sessions, about 25 hours in total.
I'm very sorry, but being someone who only gets payed a four-figure sum for the same amount of working hours, where she got offered a five-figure sum and wanted a six-figure sum instead, it is very hard for me to sympathize. And I'm pretty sure that most other developers, designers, animators and so on are more in my league of payment as well.
Embarrassingly I hand't realised they'd swapped out the magnetic voice actress! That's outrageous. She has an absolutely perfect command of the line between haughtily dismissive and knowingly camp. And four grand is utterly pathetic. For one of the most perfect, immediately recognisable voices in gaming _history._
It pains me that I love this series so much that I really can't face bailing on it.
@@th3WhiteKnight no - obviously - it means The Sprawl, just like you and I, hasn't seen the result yet since, y'know, *the game isn't out for a couple more weeks*, and also hadn't read any articles/social media posts/etc about the situation. That your take is on its face incompatible with temporal reality only proves conclusively that you're just trolling.
@@th3WhiteKnight No, it means that the amount of times I heard her voice in the handful of trailers I've allowed myself to watch(I'm trying to go in as fresh as possible) is very small indeed, and therefore it's no wonder that I didn't notice the difference. I said 'embarrassingly' because I was being self-deprecating, taking into account the fact that I call myself a huge fan of Bayo as a series.
@@th3WhiteKnight So because you didn't realise the voice acting was different in a trailer in which she speaks very little, that therefore means the change to the voice acting is indiscernible in general, and it won't be noticed over a twenty-hour-long videogame?
What on earth are you talking about.
If you really want to boycott it but can't bear bailing on it, the video suggested a solution... pirate it.
@@Chepakishui Yep. That's a possibility. I have pre-ordered it though, because I'm a sap for Bayonetta. Also, I guess my social conscience isn't that powerful. Not as powerful as the likes-cool-games part of my conscience anyway.
The cost of fast press, when someone lies the court of public opinion rushes to the wrong judgment.
Kind of reminds me of what Sega did to Ryan Drummond with Sonic.
When he was going to reprise his role as Sonic around early 2010.
He re-auditioned, they loved his performance, and then...
Their higher ups told them Drummond would have to leave his Union, and basically work for free.
How much did they end up paying Roger Craig Smith instead?
That's so Sega!
@@autobotstarscream765 I don't know.
But it couldn't have been much.
Maybe that's changed now, hard to say.
And videos like this is why you THINK before you speak Jim.
bold to assume that he thinks at all
The new info (she still confirms that Helena is being underpaid ) doesn’t change that the industry underpays VAs.
Which is the point of this video.
This is why you finish the video before commenting
@@roosty2266 4000 dollars PER session.
are you insane? what do you get out of lying?
@@tsurugi5 Where did I lie?
4K per Session for a Performance that generated insanely much more then that is underpaying.
Taylor’s performance is a significant reason why Bayonetta is such an iconic and profitable character.
@@roosty2266 huh?
why are people now referring to bayonetta as some blockbuster? the bayonetta games combined barely sold over 3 million, this is getting pathetic man
LoL, update when?
Kudos for the written review, I enjoyed it as well, was hoping to see a video on it, but I'm guessing we are going to have it mention in this very entertaining format as well. What else are we to expect from Disney, really, a studio's whose creative minds manage to succeed (occasionally) despite its values rather than because of them.
yeah Disney hasn't been the same since Eisner left, Iger was OK but was lacking the humanity Eisner had, Chapek is a corporate stooge who is totally inept and is just lucky that David Zaslav is so much worse by comparison that he doesn't come off as bad.
So are we updating the story?
Ummmmmmmmm?
The problem is that not only do the developers treat VAs as disposable; but as long as other VAs (even up and coming ones) are happy to take these criminally low rates of pay, the situation will never change. Everyone *thinks* they can Voice Act, so they will NEVER have the well run dry on people happy to take the $4000 and call it a day.
We as consumers are the ONLY ones who have power to change this dynamic, and have a responsibility to not purchase games that don’t pay their Voice Actors a fair rate. And as long as they are able to, developers will continue to pay EVERYONE (not just the Voice Actors) as little as possible to ensure more profits to the Executives and the Investors.
She lied about the 4k
We gonna get a follow-up now that more info has come out (especially Hellena being a TERF)?
Come on Jim wheres the updated video??????
She was offered 4k per session for a total of 20k. She wanted a six figure instead.
She wanted 6 figures PLUS RESIDUALS. No wonder they went with Hale, they no doubt saved money going for a more experienced voice actor. R.I.P BOZO.
Well this didn't age well, I like Sterling but I felt this was way too quick to jump on, and it seems that was true and likely no apologies will be issued as more details surface :/
Nope. Just a bunch of adult babies REEEing online like usual. And as usual, when proven wrong, they hide away and try to act like it never happened.
Everyone needs to start looking into things before they start talking about them
Seems like there may be more to this story, according to Jason Schreier. Helena may not have been completely honest.
This aged like fine milk Jim Helena Taylor lied I hate Jason schrier but he had a report that platinum offered Helena Taylor 15 000
Congrats she lied and this video is outdated and false news
I've been playing GTA IV lately, and I agree the voice acting really had a heavy hand in bringing that game to life and are a big part of what makes it still hold up today.
I like it when voice acting is terrible. Castlevania symphony of the night. Age of empires 2. Resident evil 1. They are so bad that they are good! haha
Sadly we wont see such hilarious cringe once again in gaming... Unless they like... Do it super bad on purpose haha. Come on Chris Pratt! Either do mario's voice super good or super bad. What is this meh anyone could have done it stuff???
Seems like the internet jumped the gun and takes a single persons claims at face value. As it seems (per Schreier from Bloomberg), that Helena was not offered 4k total, but 4k per 4h recording session, totalling between 15k and 20k, and Helena Taylor countered the offer requesting a 6-figure sum. But I guess, Helena being the poor exploited victim fits most people's narrative better so barely anyone questioned her claim, even if her calling out Jennifer Hale did lead to Hale being harassed for no fault of her own.
I'm sympatic towards the issue regarding Voice Actors in general as this has gotten some attention to this, but I had a weird feeling about Taylor calling out Hale like that, while portraying herself as the victim, when it seems all this is due to her own greed.
It’s amazing how many people get their pitchforks out based on one sided and unverified information. They do it repeatedly and never learn, which is even more baffling to me.
4k total also falls under the minimum of the union she is part of. So there was a chance to catch her out on that lie.
Well this aged poorly
The story is convoluted, but there’s still so much truth to the mistreatment of performers in the industry
@@kyloctopus
Yep but for
1. Even if hellena taylor was mistreated she should not have to gone after the game rather the publisher aka platinum games. Boycotting the game in success would cause a hit in revenue which affects the future emplyment of those employees who had nothing to do with her hiring, so her seeking justice would have hurt more people by a game boycott over the company
2. People tend to forget the phrase innocent until proven guilty
3. I was pretty suspicious from day 1 as platinum game from what i went digging has great reputation among current and former employees, not to mention it was pretty suspicious that she would call a boycott just as the game was about to launch and on the game no less rather than the publisher.
4. Allegedly lying about her own voice actor mistreatement ultimately undermines actual people who have experienced mistreatment within the industry.
@@Veryfreshveryflourish24 Platinum is the developer, Nintendo/SEGA are publishers.
@@kurosumomo
My point still remains unchanged. Also geez i only slept 6 hours.
So some new information came out they offered her 4k per session for at least 5 sessions
Well this age like milk.
Video game industry in general is ran by people who believe that in chase of money, everyone can be replaced if necessary.
From designers creating characters, devs bringing them into reality and voice actors bringing life into those characters... For suits they're nothing more than cogs in a machine that can be replaced at any given time once anything undesirable in their eyes happens
This is unfortunately true of all industries, not just the video game one.
@@hemanownsyou
That's true, but video games industry is the most guilty of that. You don't hear of massive layoffs in other industries where hundreds of people suddenly find out they're without a job all while bragging about record profits or massive bonuses for execs.
Things like these are why unions are important and why video games industry is combating. Unions are there to combat such things and prevent them from happening.
I’m glad to hear you’re doing written stuff again. I still remember laughing my ass off while reading your Horse Racing 2016 review. In fact, I think I’ll go give that one a look again for old time’s sake.
Turns out hellena lied lol. This doesn't take away from the overall issue, but def lost all sympathy for her.
You can just hear the pain in her voice as she spoke. Absolutely heartbroken. I feel for Jennifer Hale too, she likely didn't know the backstory and thought she grabbed a great role out of luck (or something, I don't know).
I don't know. If I got the role after an actor lost it then I'd reach out to that actor to ask why.
@@specificityarchives9920 Especially since they're both SAG-AFTRA. Don't need scabs if these are your comrades.
If Hale turns it down it just goes to someone else, and Hale likely didn't know the backstory and would've assumed that Taylor simply turned down the role. You can't really fault people who're living on a gig economy to turn down big opportunities. If they're put in a position where they have to choose morality over their own financial stability then there's a problem with the system actively exploiting people, not the people who aren't going the extra miles to make the system appear as if it's working ethically.
@@gwen9939 *They are in a union*
That's exactly the kind of thing they *have to* talk about, if their union is supposed to successfully uplift all of their member's pay and treatment.
Platinum saying that they offered $3000-$4000 per session for 5 sessions of work. She wanted a 6 figure sum of money and they couldn’t agree and so they found another VA. They approached her after and offered a cameo for which she would be paid $4000 for one session of work.
Sad to see her no longer being Bayonetta’s voice, but it looks like she has lied about the situation. And then asked people to boycott and harm the droves of other people who worked on the game.
$3K-$4K for EACH of 5 sessions.
Technically she didn't lie, she just omitted the _extremely important_ info about how much time the $4K was for and how much she wanted. Which was obvious to me, and I said as much on this video. JSS just missed that, I guess.
@@Bacteriophagebs yes, sorry. I meant for EACH session but it doesn’t read like that. Thanks
Considering those 5 sessions was also (according to Bloomberg) not the entire game's worth, so if Platinum's version is real, she was very much lying, she specifically said 4K for the whole game- so right now, we don't know
Don't you think you need to do a follow up? :P
A few things seem to have changed...
Imma say something crazy: Maybe a game that makes millions should give everyone who actually worked on it more, collectively, than the CEO of the company? Like, could they be slightly less rich for the sake of maintaining the company and it's employees? Just a little less rich?
For instance: why even offer that woman $4000. Why not just give her $50000, and take it out of the $12 million bonus the xecutives will get at the end of the year? She gets to pay her rent, they get to still be VERY rich, and everyone stays happy.
Not even that much, 10 maybe even 20,000 would've been suffice. Best believe jen wasn't offered that 4,000
@@neon_one_neo3317 Seriously. Even $20000 would have been more reasonable. Offering the voice of your main character for your most successful game series $4000 is like just telling her to her face that she's UTTERLY worthless. I'd have been pissed too.
Oops….
The voice of Revali remarked that he was paid peanuts for that role as well, despite the game (and role) being extremely iconic and said game making hundreds of millions. He got paid much more for his role in Freedom Planet, an indie game that did fairly well but not even remotely as well as BotW, simply because they gave him residuals in his contract. The whole notion is absurd and SAG-AFTRA should negotiate better! Do you even understand how powerful that union is?!? There’s an argument to be made that they’re the most powerful union in the world simply because every famous actor belongs to it and they demand you use union work! If you piss them off, you’ll be unable to have any famous people in anything you’re a part of, including recurring roles. It’s pretty clear even the union doesn’t respect the work of voice actors.
EDIT: After doing a bit of research, I will also add that his name is Sean Chiplock and he was also paid much more for his two lines in the Detective Pikachu movie over all his lines as Revali, Teba, and the Great Deku Tree in BotW and AoC. SAG AFTRA really doesn’t respect video game VAs
Might want to clarify that she was dishonest about this in an upcoming video...
Wouldn't be surprised if he tried to twist it and still say "video game company bad"
@@Groudon0199 yes it destroyed the credibility about that hole argument.
Please make an update video! Especially about people jumping on a side without having all the info on both sides.
I can tell you what Sonic sounds like, I know what Solid Snake sounds like, I have player neither game. I could not tell you what Bayonetta sounds like, Her ass is 1000X more iconic than whatever voice accompanies it.
So I think you're gonna have to post a retraction or at least an update on this.
This video deserves a follow up considering new information.
Yes it does
Why should they get fair pay when I am not getting fairly compensated... Is the most stupid thing out there. It should always be, if they dont get fair pay and I dont either, we both protest
Welp! It seems we might have been lied to by Taylor. I’ll hold my final take on this matter for now but if she played us, she probably gas ended her career at the spot.
Yeah no first time I disagreed with a Jimquisition. Whilst VA's deserve much higher pay, Taylor actually lied about being given 4K for the whole gig. Turns out that it's only for a cameo.
A cameo???? She voices Bayonetta. The main character
@@roosty2266 This was after she was replaced for turning down the initial offer of $20k
@@roosty2266 According to Jason's Schreier's investigation on the matter, they originally offered Taylor 3 to 4k per session for five separate recording session to do the whole lead role for the game, which she refused and asked for six figure pay instead, which they refused and decided to reaudition the role of Bayonetta instead.
After that they approached her asking if she'd still like to do a cameo role in the game, which would have required only one recording session, for which the pay would have still been 4k.
Turns out people lie, exaggerate.
You should have waited before doing this video. Hellena lied about the "4k payment for the whole game" and I wonder if this will get covered.
Yeah but then it's too low.
@@lotorsempire90 it's not too low whatsoever
$15-20k for less than a week of work for the 3rd entry of a niche series on one system?
@@lotorsempire90 it's probably more that than the game Devs get who actually made Bayonetta. She's being entitled.
@@SlamminRytch holy fuck guys the lesson should be they are all getting screwed. Something, something Capitalism indeed bad.
Looks like you may have jumped the gun unfortunately on this one. It appears she was offered 4K per session. That would come out to around 1000 dollars per hour. If that’s not enough compensation your out of your mind!
like all the ppl on twitter too, but is expected, blaming devs and publishers get you the views, ppl forgot that there is always two parts of an argument.... devs are not obligated to cast the same person and pay what that va ask... lmao