How To Tune A Piano
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2020
- Step-by-step how to tune a piano.
Just to clarify, I’ve received many questions about how C#3 is used when tuning F4. You’re just using it as a base line. So, whether you’re using the C#3, D3, D#3, E3 you’re not using them to tune F4, F#4, G4, E4. You’re tuning the 4th octave notes off of F3, F#3, G3, G#3. So tune F4 to F3 as close to no beats as possible. Then play C#3 with F3 and listen to how fast the beats are, THIS is your baseline. The beats could be fast, they could be slow, doesn’t matter. Now play C#3 with F4 and listen to the beats. If they sound the same as they did with C#3 and F3 then it’s a perfect 4:2 octave. If when you play C#3 and F4 the beats are faster, then F4 is too sharp compared to F3. If the beats are slower then F4 is too flat. Do the same with the other notes while moving up. This just gets you to the double octave which is what a 4:2 is. So once you get to F5, use F3 as your double octave test which you can now use since you know F3 is already in perfect tune. 
Хобби
I just did a basic amateur tuning on my piano and it was difficult but i have so much more respect for what is going on here. But after this I am considering tuning as a hobby. Hearing things lock into pitch and come into unison is really satisfying.
WOW! Thanks so much for this video. You just clarified a lot of questions I had about octaves that hadn't been answered before. Super helpful, clear, and concise.
Glad you found it helpful. Thank you for the kind words and thanks for watching!
One of the best and most useful explanations, I learned something.
Thank you, glad it was helpful to you!
Thanks for explaining. Probably the best video on this topic I have found so far :) Till now I have been able to tune only unisons by ear (the rest with ETD). Thanks :)
Very helpful and straight forward video! Thank you!
Thank you for the great and thorough video tutorials. Might be good to mention that you are working with single strings throughout this demonstration.
Such an awesome comprehensive video. Thanks so much. I learned so much and you explained the concepts so clearly. Just subscribed. Looking forward to watching more!
Awesome, thanks for watching!
Very helpful - thanks much!
Hey this video is really great 👍🏻 thanks so much for sharing your expertise..now I finally know about 4:2 and 6:3 octaves. Especially that 4:2 check 4 notes down from lower note..I finally understand how to compare those fast beat speeds. Also discovered that even without listening for the beats, you can hear if there's a difference in the octave notes! That 3rd note shows it up! Amazing thanks again! Learned so much from your vid. More power to ya.
Thanks Peter, that means a lot. Thanks for watching!
Your methodical, deliberate approach is excellent and very much appreciated🙏
I have a solid musical background and have tuned a number of pianos, incorrectly:( I purchased the A Reblitz- piano repair, tuning, rebuilding book, and then found this video. The two, hand in hand are excellent and have given me a solid understanding of the practical and theory behind beat rates, tuning hammer technique, and using the intervals to tune any piano. Breaking the piano into segments is what I’ve been doing, but without actually understanding why I’ve been doing it.
Thank you
That’s a great book, I still have a copy around here…somewhere. Thank you for your kind words, glad the video was helpful. All the best in your piano tech endeavors!
I’m left handed. Welcome to my world. This is the best demonstration I’ve seen. Great teaching!
I fully understand lol. At least piano tuning seems to benefit those that are left handed…for once. Thanks for watching!
Really genuine and informative video. I learned about beats in the upper partials and am happy. Thanks for helping me progress
Awesome! Thank you for the kind words.
As a guitar player who needs to tune a piano, this video gives me the confidence to do it
Extremely helpful video, thank you very much
What a very clear and informative video, easily by far the best on RUclips in my opinion.
Wow, thank you very much!
I will try your way Next tuning. Thank you for sharing this.
nice job very helpful and clear
Mr Piano Tech - I just read your reply from 2 months ago . That answered my question ! Your video is really helpful - thank you very much !
Great! Thank you for watching!
I can't wait to give this a try! It is a nice supplement to the aural tuning I am already learning!
Great! Let me know if you ever have any questions.
Best piano tunning video, hands down!
Thank you! Glad you found it useful.
Thank you coach
I'm learning how to tune a piano and this is very helpful, thank you! I'm getting better results than relying purely on ETDs for tuning every key. You earned a new subscriber 😁
Thanks so much!
InstaBlaster.
that ghost partial technic made my day now, was wondering about the extremes of the bass/treble and got my answer now, thanks a lot!
Glad it helped!
@@MrPianoTech cant wait for your false beats video too!
gosh! impressive clear
It's so useful. Thanks a lot.
Amazing!!!!
Stretch tuning also is something guitarists learn to do after playing a while
ReallyGreat
Very simple and clear. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
it’s so useful to see the tuning hand. i was quickly taught and loaned a strobe tuner in 2001 when i was in high school and secretly taught myself piano. i’ve tuned many other peoples pianos. this was before youtube, facebook groups, etc to have a community to draw opinions from.
i came from guitar tuning which is great because we use often use harmonics and listen to beats.
i was taught to go sharp and then flat, but wasn’t taught to jiggle or have sharp movements. my hammer etiquette has been like yours.
it was also before aps and i wasn’t serious enough to buy a strobe. i tuned A4 and turned the tuner off. i put an ad out to tune a piano for 20 bucks. obviously it was people that wanted it majorly tuned and didn’t want to pay much. i definitely did a good preliminary tuning, but got a good experience. eventually i was tuning one a week for more money.
now i have a nice ap for $30, people to draw knowledge from, and i might try to be more professional.
great demonstration. i used to tune the middle octave using 4ths and fifths and checking with my 3rds and sixths to get temperament. i then when down and did mostly the same, but used 5ths and octaves moreso. as i went up i used more 5ths and 6ths.
ps: Db and F is a major 3rd. i don’t even know what to call a C# and an F. haha. perhaps dim4, but that’s not part of a diminished chord. aug5 descending?
Yep, I’ve found that if you price yourself too low you get a certain type of customer, the bottom-dweller. Keep it up, it’s been a great trade for me!
Amazing
I have used only TuneLab and the tuning has seemed rather sterile. Can't wait to try this. Do you have any suggestions on how to tune unisons? I listen for no vibration, but that always shows the pitch as a couple cents flat on TuneLab. Is that what I should be listening for, or something else?
Thank you very much. Super understandable and helpful. Is there another video for tuning the oktave f3-f4?
Thanks for watching! I have a "Tuning the Temperament by Ear" video planned to shoot soon so "stay tuned".
I found this video VERY helpful. I had been frustrated and dissatisfied with my upper and lower octaves. Using this technique was game changer for me.
You mention doing a video for how you have you TuneLab set up. I’d really like to see that. I’ve found that TuneLab and I agree on the placement of the bass notes, but in the treble, my ear and the tuner can’t agree. I’d like to know what you have yours set to and what my expectations should be as far as TuneLab and my ear agreeing on the notes.
Glad it helped! Go with your ear. I use tunelab mostly for setting the temperament and for doing pitch raises. I have it set for 130 w/mid for viewing and have the bass set to 6:3, and treble to 4:2 - which are just simple double octaves so you should do alright setting those by ear.
Thanks for that info. I eventually figured out that the 4:2 octave works best most of the time. so, that’s what I keep it on now.
Thank you for this very helpful video. When tuning temperament with ETD, are you suggesting to tune F3-F4 pure to the tuner? Do you need to adjust it at all to the pianos inharmonicity?
Pure to the tuner. The temperament will be the same no matter what piano, the inharmonicity will really come into play as you move up and down the octaves.
Excellent video. Audio was so good compared with others out there and import for this type of instruction. You are a good teacher. The test of c# to F at beginning three me but from other replies I think I can figure out. You are a good teacher. I heard you working on just one of three strings. Did you then finish by matching all strings? Maybe I missed that. Thanks
Thank you for the kind words! Yes, I tune the center string then tune the other two to the center one.
bro that is some rather dramatic introduction music
Brooo I can hear all the notes resonating so I definitely can do this! Imma tune my piano tomorrow
you didnt do it, did you?
Did I get asleep or when he did speak about unisons tuning and octave stretching if needed? I would like to hear a piano tuned that way.
Great tutorial.
What temperament do you suggest for an old Erard, to play a lot of different kinds of music ? Thank you
Thanks! I’d recommend the equal temperament unless you’re working on some baroque-era styles. Mostly what I encounter in older pianos is the tuning will be set at A432 instead of A440 but rarely will I need to change the temperament.
Great video! What confuses me is in regards to the first partial checks.. If we've tuned for temperament and we are checking the 4:2 of F3, how is that going to be accurate given that we didn't tune the C#?
Glad you've found it useful! So what you are doing is merely comparing the beats of that C# to F3 and that C# to F4. Those beats need to match and it doesn't matter whether or not that C# is in "tune". Same goes for the D, D#, and E next to it. You can think of it as a baseline, it doesn't matter where the baseline is, only that the two notes match beats when compared with it.
@@MrPianoTech Ok, thanks alot!
Makes sense. Thanks. I’ll be back if (when) successful
Hello. Where can I see more videos you tuning pianos? You have done such a nice work showing us other way to tune.
Thank you for watching! Currently this is the only one I have on tuning but soon I'll be releasing one on tuning the temperament by ear as well as pitch raises and using an ETD. Stay tuned!
@@MrPianoTech Thank you so much. I will be waiting for it. Thank you for answering my question.
Did you make a video of setting the temperament?
Congratulations and thanks a lot, bud! May you indicate any good store? I need to buy some tunning and voicing tools. In my country we haven't it... it is very dificult to find any tools around here...
I order mostly from schaffpiano.com, there's also pianoteksupply.com.
@@MrPianoTech Great! Thank you one more time! 🙏
Hi. Thanks very much for a great summary and explanation of the tuning process. I have listened to so many tuners explaining the process in such detail and then i end up not being sure when to apply which test and how to move up or down the octaves. You have covered all the basic questions so clearly. I really appreciate your work. I e question. Why doyou use the M3rd test on the 4/2 octave and the m3rd test on tbe 6/3. What confuses me is the direction in which you are counting your thirds. Major is to the left minir is to the right. Hope it makes sense. Thanks again.
Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad the video was useful to you! Yes, use the major thirds on the way up the piano and use the minors on the way down.
Basically, because THOSE are the intervals that create beats that match (the closest) to both the lower and upper octave notes. If you were to try to check the 6:3 with a minor 3rd BELOW, the beat speed difference between the octave notes would be too great to make any determination. A M3 below carries the beat speed you want to match (or adjust) to the M10th (M3 below plus the octave gives you a M10th). If they match, you have a pure 4:2. A m3 ABOVE is the beat speed (hence, the check note) you need to match for a pure 6:3. Usually, I find a slightly wide 4:2 (M3 a bit slower than M10) matches a slightly narrow 6:3 (m3 a hair faster than M6), and I leave it there. The OP's reply tells you that you'll end up with 4:2 octaves in the upper portion of the piano and 6:3 (slightly wider) octaves going into the bass.
@@socram321 well said
Great tut. I used TuneLab, did a few runs, close, very close to perfection. Wait, do I even want perfection?. Character lies in flaws.
Do feel stretching the upper/lower notes for inharmonicity is necessary?
Yes, since every piano is different.
12:59 Your video is very educational. I have a question tuning the soprano section of the piano, G-C. Why i hear only a smacking sound, like two sticks hitting each other? My tuning software goes crazy when attempting to tune this section.
Hello Gary. Check the hammers and make sure they're hitting squarely. Also, I don't know the condition of your hearing but those top notes can be difficult for some people to hear, just in case that's a contributor. No offense intended. Also, sometimes tuning software can have a hard time with those because the tone doesn't last very long.
Great video. Me, I would use a spectrum analyzer so I can not only hear the harmonics, but see them too.
I never became a piano tuner, I just don't have the temperament [smile].
Remember, you can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish.
Thanks. The tuning software has that ability built in.
When you say to tune the unisons first, does this mean that you tune the first/top string of each note, right the way through the octave, then go back and tune the second/middle string right the way through the octave etc, or, do you tune the first string, then second, then third, before moving on to the next note? Thanks
When I'm doing the standard tuning I will tune the octaves centerr string and then I will tune the left and right unison's to it. When I'm doing the final checks I will check all of the unison's first and then double-check my octaves.
I missed one point. Since you tuned the F3 to F4 temperament first, how were you able to use the 4: 2 octave method when tuning F4? You were required to drop down to the C# in order to do that but you didn't tune the C# yet since it is below the temperament correct?
What did I miss here? Thank you for the great video.
You’re just using it as a base line. So, whether you’re using the C#3, D3, D#3, E3 you’re not using them to tune F4, F#4, G4, E4. You’re tuning the 4th octave notes off of F3, F#3, G3, G#3. So tune F4 to F3 as close to no beats as possible. Then play C#3 with F3 and listen to how fast the beats are, THIS is your baseline. The beats could be fast, they could be slow, doesn’t matter. Now play C#3 with F4 and listen to the beats. If they sound the same as they did with C#3 and F3 then it’s a perfect 4:2 octave. If when you play C#3 and F4 the beats are faster, then F4 is too sharp compared to F3. If the beats are slower then F4 is too flat. Do the same with the other notes while moving up. This just gets you to the double octave which is what a 4:2 is. So once you get to F5, use F3 as your double octave test which you can now use since you know F3 is already in perfect tune. Hope this helps, it took me a while to wrap my mind around it.
@MrPianoTech Okay thank you for that detailed reply. It is a bit of a hard concept to grasp but I think I understand better now and will give it a try next time I do a tuning. I used to tune quite a bit many years ago but now I rarely do... mostly I just do them as a donation of my services for my church these days.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. Have a great day!
@@jeffroutledge9153 You’re welcome! Hope it helps.
Is there a reason you can’t use the c# within the tempered octave since we know that note has been properly tuned ? As others have pointed out, the c# outside the temperament octave may not be in tune . Thanks
Sorry for the late response, looks like youtube quit notifying me when comments are left! Doesn't need to be in tune. It's just used as a baseline for comparison.
My old 1909 piano was tuned with A at 435.5. It seems you should be able to use this method to tune the piano to that off-440 treble tuning. Do I understand your process correctly?
Yes you can. I was recently asked by a customer to tune to that "A". If you're using TuneLab, although I guess any program should be able to do it, put it on A4 then lower the pitch on the program until it reads 435.5 (on TuneLab you just slide your finger down in the middle area). Then use it to tune the temperament then you're all set. You'll tune the rest of the piano like you would a standard tuning.
@@MrPianoTech The tuner said the piano wouldn’t hold the tuning if he went to concert pitch. Is A at 435.5 common then?
@@Opa747 It's possible that the piano was built to be tuned at A432 which is common in some older pianos but hard to say for sure on yours. The tech will sometimes suggest a lower tuning if the strings may break bringing them up, if a bridge may crack, etc. Depends on the condition of the piano. But historically A used to be lower than 440 so it shouldn't be a problem unless you want to play along with contemporary music, then you'll notice the pitch difference.
Quick question. I'm due to tune a piano that has been moved from one house to another. It's slightly flat but was tuned regularly until a year ago. How long do I let it settle and let the temp an humidity equalise? I don't want to tune it straight away as I'm told it won't hold long. Is two weeks enough? It's in great condition, 40 years old.
I find 2 weeks to be good.
Hi, I have an old piano that have some sour tones even after professional tuning, in the cross over range between base and tenor. They are not out of tune, just unwanted harmonics. Anything that can be done? Best regards, Anders
Hello Anders! In my experience that's typically caused by one of two things; either the dampers aren't properly cutting off the tone, allowing for unwanted resonance...or, the hammers need to be voiced. First would be to see if the dampers are totally cutting off all notes. Then check the condition of the front of the hammers where they strike the strings.
If youre just starting can you tune a piano in multiple sessions? Or is that bad for the piano. My piano is relatively new and usually gets tunned once a year. Ive tunned a few notes here and there successfully. I just want to tune the whole piano because its quite rewarding.
It’s best to do it all at once but if you’re learning I don’t see why you couldn’t split it up assuming you’re not doing a pitch raise, more than 2 or 3 cents, so that the tension balance doesn’t get thrown off across the piano.
may I know where did you purchase that tuning hammer from?
www.fujanproducts.com/
@@MrPianoTech thanks
Could you tell us about getting rid of falseness. Can you actually tune that out?? Thanks. Lauren, UK.
Sorry for the late response, looks like youtube quit notifying me when comments are left! I plan on doing a video on false beats in the future.
Have you done the video setting the temperament with Tunelab?
Yes, doesn’t matter what software you use though, the equal temperament will always be the same.
@@MrPianoTech Hi. I can't find the video about setting the Temperament with Tunelab. Could you point us to it please?
And also, thankyou! Your videos are fantastic
When are you tuning unisons in this process?
Immediately after you tune the center string of each note, as you go up and down.
Hi Mr. Piano Tech
I have scoured youtube for instructive piano tuning videos and came upon yours which by far offers the clearest explanation of aural tuning (not including the temperament) and btw is great in video and audio quality.
Also it seems to me that your method offers a practical trade-off between using an ETD but enhancing the process with aural tuning which includes a subjective quality.
With regards to step 1 = tuning the temperament: is it correctly understood that this is almost a mathematical exercise in which the F3-F4 interval is tuned with 12 exactly equal 1/2 step intervals, i.e. no stretching?
If so, per my understanding of the math involved setting the temperament is calculated as follows:
A4 = 440 (this could of course be a different number if desired)
Each half step is calculated using a factor of s = 2^(1/12) ~= 1.0594631
Each half step below A4 is therefor calculated as:
Frequency = 440/(1.0594631 ^ n) where n is number of half steps below A4, e.g.:
D#4 is 6 half steps below A4 hence D#4 frequency = 440/(1.0594631^6) ~= 311.13
Based on the above calc the F3-F4 temperament would be set as follows:
F3 174.61
F#3 185.00
G3 196.00
G#3 207.65
A3 220.00
A#3 233.08
B3 246.94
C4 261.63
C#4 277.18
D4 293.66
D#4 311.13
E4 329.63
F4 349.23
Assuming this is correct and that the rest of the tuning is performed aurally as you explained, there should really be no need to purchase an expensive tuning device or app. All that would be needed is a simple tuning app that can help set the temperament using the frequencies calculated above?
Thanks again for a great video!
Hello, thanks for watching. They’re not equal divisions, each note is slightly “tempered” (ex. F4 = 348.78). The non-equal divisions came about because if you use equal divisions the octaves sound good but the chords don’t, so they had to make some exceptions. I can’t get into all of the math involved in the evolution of the equal temperament but if you go to the site for TuneLab and go through the manual, there is more information regarding the science behind it. Hope that helps.
@@MrPianoTech Apologies for persisting, but i tried to find references to the slight non-equal divisions in the "equal" temperament you described, but was not able to. As best I can tell the TuneLab manual I found online does not discuss this topic (it talks more about some of the historical temperaments but nothing on the "equal"), and all of the sites/articles I found online present calculations consistent with those in my post. Would you be able to point me to anything that explains the unequal divisions in more detail?
If just a single string, easy. But unison then tweaking octaves in one hit...? What if the unisons are out? Do you go back and get the unisons out and try again?
When doing the final checks? I check unisons first, then octaves.
Great video!! Time that things go to the customers.Just the (double)decimes are very important in the temperament.And...what about those false beats(notably in the treble area) To keep it short,these are due to a lack of accuracy in the manufacturing procedure as a result you can not supply better (side)pressure on the bridge pins.Culprits are additionally in these circumstances also those infernal aggraffes(invented by Kriegelstein),however....the expensive brands still make use of them(Bechstein,Bösendorfer and Steinway partially),cos.....false beats is not a formidable harassment..You don't hear them in the great concert hall and not in pedal playing,too.
And the big problem often are the bass strings.Are they long enough? Haha....would almost say NEVER.As a little boy I got a snare drum from my parents.It was one with a smaller diameter,so....shorter strings as a result the instrument did not rustle in the proper way while beating Brushes didn't work at all..And...partials of piano bass strings are higher than in the treble,so small piano's have their restrictions in this respect. Equality in this branche is much sought after.Just like action regulation and voicing.Equality!!!
As a little boy I was a hobbyist in this field but only later I turned professional and so I do venture to say.....there was a time,that most of the piano's did not tune easily,they were just bastards.And how come,that bad pianos do'exist at all? By lack of proper material(eg tuning pins with too great resilience,torsion,that is HELL to tune) and the right knowledge.Well....every bet you'll recognize some things in my message.
Very nice technique and explanation. I just didn't understand what is the "ghost note".
It is the note that you hear that is the partial of the lower notes. It’s a “ghost” because you don’t actually play it. The easiest way to hear a ghost note is by pressing down lightly let’s say C2 and C3 and hold them down. Just press them and hold them down so that the dampers stay lifted off the strings. Then with those pressed down, quickly strike C4, C5. You’ll hear the C4 and C5 but they’ll be coming from the C2 and C3 as partials. So you’ll hear them although they’re not really being played.
@@MrPianoTechmany thanks!
How did you settle on 4:2 and 6:3? Is there a particular reason that works and others don't? Why is the bass tuned differently?
Those are the ones required to pass the RPT examinations so it's a good starting point and it's what I use daily. The 6:3 gives the bass a different stretch that sounds better than a 4:2.
Quick question....You first tuned the temperament (F3-F4). But then you used the major 3rd below (C#3) to check the F octave tuning. How can you do that and have it be accurate if you haven't yet tuned C#3, which is below the temperament?
You're just using it as a baseline. It doesn't matter if the beats are fast or slow. Just match whatever the interval beats sound like of C#3 and F3, to C#3 and F4. See below comments where I've dug into this with others. Just remember, you're only using it as a comparison, not tuning off of it.
Wow, of all the videos I have watched on this topic, this video was the most helpful by an immense amount.
Questions, though: 1) If you have just tuned your temperament octave, how can you use the C# below the F to check if you haven't tuned the C# yet? (I assumed I simply missed something.); 2) If you tune your double octaves up with no beats and your 6:3 octaves down with no beats, is this taking care of the stretching on its own as it relates to that specific, unique instrument? (Other techs have told me that they stretch octaves by going beyond the note and actually introducing a beat!!)
Thank you, I'm glad you found it helpful! So for me personally it took me a while to wrap my head around the idea that that C# does not need to be in tune to use it. So what you are doing is merely comparing the beats of that C# to F3 and that C# to F4. Those beats need to match and it doesn't matter whether or not that C# is in "tune". Same goes for the D, D#, and E next to it. As for the stretching, yes doing your 4:2 and 6:3 octaves up and down the piano will account for the inharmonicity of each individual instrument.
@@MrPianoTech oh, duh, that makes sense now! (Just like in my own career, you are just looking to compare to a baseline. It doesn't matter what that baseline is, as long as it's constant among the things you are comparing.)
I am getting my head around the octave thing. My techs have always stretched them, literally, by 8 cents in the middle and 25 cents at the top, and it drives me insane!! (I have extremely sensitive ears.) I was going to have a go at it myself using your method of having no beats with 4:2 and 6:3, assuming that takes care of it. I have been inside pianos for 30 years and haven't screwed up anything yet. :) I am just trying to decide if I want to do the temperament octave by ear or not. (I used to tune harpsichords back in college by ear, so I already have a head start.)
Thanks again!
@@seancregomusic You're Welcome!
@@MrPianoTech that’s very helpful to know! I just finished an online piano tech course and didn’t understand that the c# didn’t need to be in tune. That small bit of information is like a lightbulb moment for me. I’m going to utilize that as soon as I repair the hammer flange I broke yesterday while traveling and spacing hammers.
@@mjanzen40 Happy to help!
“Stay tuned”, lol!
Thanks, I’ve been wondering how many people would catch that lol.
Hey very helpful video, I have read alot of comments and am looking for an answer. Basically I may sound like an idiot I understand exactly what you have done with 4:2 and 6:3 but my head isn't letting me interpret was 4:2 and 6:3 actually represent?? Can you elaborate sorry. So 4 must be an interval and 2 is an interval as well?? Errmm thanks
I have re watched now and understand that 4:2 refers to the partials I am now just mythed at how you got the lower octave Below F4in tune. E.g the C# you use with F4 thanks
@@fredrowland-jz2oi Ok, no problem. You’re just using it as a base line. So, whether you’re using the C#3, D3, D#3, E3 you’re not using them to tune F4, F#4, G4, E4. You’re tuning the 4th octave notes off of F3, F#3, G3, G#3. So tune F4 to F3 as close to no beats as possible. Then play C#3 with F3 and listen to how fast the beats are, THIS is your baseline. The beats could be fast, they could be slow, doesn’t matter. Now play C#3 with F4 and listen to the beats. If they sound the same as they did with C#3 and F3 then it’s a perfect 4:2 octave. If when you play C#3 and F4 the beats are faster, then F4 is too sharp compared to F3. If the beats are slower then F4 is too flat. Do the same with the other notes while moving up. This just gets you to the double octave which is what a 4:2 is. So once you get to F5, use F3 as your double octave test which you can now use since you know F3 is already in perfect tune. Hope this helps, it took me a while to wrap my mind around it.
yes everyone need a Fujan Lever
You use the C sharp as a check, but you have only tuned the temperament. How can you use it? The C sharp might be out of tune. Is it usable as long as it’s not very out of tune?
Sorry, that C sharp is within the temperament. Will be nice to try this, have only tuned with ETD for 15 years.
No, I was right. You use C sharp 3 as a check when only F3-F4 is tuned. So my question remains :-)
So what you are doing is merely comparing the beats of that C# to F3 and that C# to F4. Those beats need to match and it doesn't matter whether or not that C# is in "tune". Same goes for the D, D#, and E next to it. You can think of it as a baseline, it doesn't matter where the baseline is, only that the two notes match beats when compared with it. You're not tuning F3 to that c sharp, you're only tuning F4 to the F3 so you're just getting a baseline of the beats from that c sharp and F3 to compare it to F4.
@@MrPianoTech Ok, thanks!
How do you know you're Db is correct prior to doing the F to F octave check ?
Doesn’t need to be. Just listen to the beats you get when using Db3 to F3, and adjust F4 to match those when using Db3 to F4
What about pitch raises? How do I perform a pitch raise in a piano?
I have a pitch raise video.
Ok
I have been watching your videos.. thanks for making them. Apprentice piano technicians tend to break strings because they (we) pick the wrong pin to adjust for the note being played. Why don't piano manufacturers emboss the name of each note right on the frame/plate adjacent to the pins for those strings? The plates are made from cast iron, why couldn't they just put the note names right in the casting... it wouldn't add much cost and it makes tuning easier for apprentice and master technicians alike.
Thanks for watching. Personally, the only time I’ve broken strings while tuning them was due to the condition of the strings, not from over tightening them. Doesn’t mean I’ve never been on the wrong pin, I have, plenty of times, and I think I’ve just gotten lucky that a string hasn’t broken but if I start to move the pin and I notice the pitch doesn’t change at all I stop immediately, assuming I’m on the wrong pin. With time the frequency of doing that will decrease to the point where you just won’t really do it anymore. Just something to overcome and just a part of being a piano tech.
@@MrPianoTech I thought as much... I agree, the instant you nudge a pin, you MUST hear a pitch change, if not, STOP, wrong pin. I guess the more you tune a string, the more friction at the nut/bridge (coming from bass guitars, I have to learn their real names on a piano - my piano tech manual is due in today) and I assume that is where strings break most often?
What must suck is tuning a $500K Steinway with the customer watching your every move and then you break a string from no fault of your own. When I was a teen, I worked in a gas station in an upscale town. Some of the most crass and abusive customers were the ones in BMWs (generally speaking, those that were well off). Mercedes-Benz owners were a little better, but regular middle class folks were generally the nicest. So, if I extrapolate that to pianos, I can imagine that some customers are just "looking" to start an argument - usually to get out of paying. Have you ever experienced this? This is what scares me most on becoming a piano technician. I just posted a video on the KX88 Key Servicing... so I am very comfortable with synthesizers and I am very detailed oriented.
@@paulromsky9527 Some people you’ll never be able to make happy no matter what you, it’s just how some people are wired. I’ve had a few bad ones but just deal with them the best you can and make a note to never see them again, let someone else deal with them. That being said, most of my customers are nice people although some can be a bit picky, comes with the territory. Once you build a good client base you can be picky as to who you’ll do work for.
@@MrPianoTech Thanks, yes, I definitely would "refuse service" to the nasty ones. I would expect many piano owners would be picky ... I am too about details. I once interned for a drive-in theater and a small movie theater. They both had vintage projectors and both were VERY picky on not just using them, but "showmanship"... like synchronizing reels to the exact frame (where about +/- 5 frames is standard). I have been studying my "Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding" 1993 2nd Edition by Authur Reblitz. Great book. I am learning about all the different actions and names. One note so far, browsing ahead, I see in this edition he doesn't tune to 4ths and 5ths, he adopted 3rds and 6ths (he said it is easier for newbies)... I would prefer the former. Still no word from 3 of the 4 piano techs. One said he doesn't tune anymore. I wrote to Stienway and Sons, I asked if they have a "shadow" program to learn tuning... I may be able to get by without a mentor and just read many books and watch a lot of videos. But how am I going to get access to 100+ tunings to get my chops? To get my RPT certification in the guild.
@@MrPianoTech I will study my butt off for the RPT exam. But the tuning in front of an expert will be "fun"... not. How many questions is it? Any essays? It is objective multiple choice or write-in subjective? Any oral questions? Are there specific study guides for it (like for SATs for example). The piano they give me to tune, will I have to do a Pitch Raise on it?
Okay, great, so you can tune a piano, but can you tune a fish?!😂
Surprised it took this long for someone to say that 😆
@@MrPianoTech I was hoping you got a laugh out of that one, I remember that album ! I gave it 1 chuckle &2 guffaws . Gave away my age though . Thanks & Good night
I really would like to work for you, Sir!!! Could you take me for your country ?
I have all the help I need right now but I appreciate the interest!
I was taught by an old tuner back in 1963. I was taught to pound the keys to set them. Is that no longer necessary?
Setting the pin is still required but I mentioned in the beginning of the video that this video doesn’t cover that. It could really use a whole separate video as proper pin-setting is incredibly important. In this video I go through my process of tuning and is meant more for tuners who already have a good handle on proper pin-setting technique.
Exactly 4 years ago (January 1)
I have a new video coming soon, with some updates and future of the channel etc. Happy New Year!
How do you know your C# 3 is in tune?
It doesn't need to be. You just use it for a comparison benchmark. So what you'll do is just listen to how fast the beats are when you play C#3 and F3, and just compare that to C#3 and F4 and make sure they match. Adjust F4 until it matches the beats of F3.
I thought in the old days, pianos were tuned from a single A4 440Hz Tuning Fork, not from F4, is that correct?
Typically although there are some methods starting off from other notes, however, when you go through the examination process through the PTG you’re only allowed once pitch reference at either Middle C or A440 and you have to tune just off that.
@@MrPianoTech Thanks. I wrote to the Guild to get more info. I would like to become a registered piano technician. I had a few questions for them. I am hoping that I just need 1 one study guide - like I purchased for a Ham Radio license. Everything you need to learn in one manual. Then I need to find a mentor. As I am learning and because I don't have an actual piano, are people willing to have their pianos tuned for free by an apprentice learning to tune by ear and then verify electronically?
@@paulromsky9527 If you go to PTG.org you'll find where you can search for an RPT by Zip. Find one willing to mentor you. It's a long process and takes a couple of years to get any good at tuning and developing a good pin-setting technique. Don't practice on customer pianos in the field, I recommend getting at least a couple hundred good tunings under your belt before doing that but follow whatever your RPT mentor recommends. Get the Reblitz book on tuning, repair, and rebuilding. Some of the info is a bit dated but It'll lay some good foundation. Nothing can replace training though from a good RPT who really knows his/her stuff.
what are partials?
I hear you say it a lot
When you play a note, you’re hearing multiple notes, if you listen closely. Most people will just hear the fundamental, but with practice you’ll hear the higher pitched ones as well. They consist of certain intervals including octaves and fifths, etc. You’ll use these to tune with.
You have an unusual lever control, I see you tune left handed. Maybe you should explain this to your viewers out there, as only 11 percent of people are left handed. This would make it easier for the rest of us.
I have read that using your left to push gives you better control than using your right to pull, regardless of your dominant hand. (I use my right by habit, but I'm interested to try the left.)
Why not use an electronic tuner for the whole thing?
It mostly comes down to inharmonicity. The equal temperament will always be the same, however, to adjust properly for the inharmonicities of each individual pianos scale you have to take measurements with the program so it knows what to listen for to get the octaves right. Or, if you tune the way outlined in the video you'll automatically make those adjustments when you tune without the computer and usually the tuning will come out sounding better.
It's confusing looking at a left-handed piano tuner. Like 95% of people (including us piano tuners) I am right-handed. It took me a moment to figure out why I was feeling disorientated seeing this video... Good video, though.
Ok, but how to you tune a piano to A-432 while standing on one leg?
Very carefully…after offsetting meter -31.77 cents 😋
@@MrPianoTech LOL! Interesting. I when I tune my old CD's down to A-432 I go down 32 cents. I had no idea it could get as exact as -31.77 cents! I tune my own pianos and I heard that Well Tempering gives a slight tuning difference to each key you play in.
@@Acoustic-Rabbit-Hole 32 is fine…I just have some very picky customers which has required me to nail it down to a specific amount…very specific lol.
you need a half day to tune a piano , this way
I tune an average of four per day, each take me approximately 45 minutes of actual tuning time to complete using this process.
What does it mean 4:2 ?? I understand 6:3 = minor 3rd and major6th... But WHY 4:2 ???
In tuning vernacular, the 6:3 and 4:2 express the relation of the partials in an octave. So in a 4:2 octave the 4th partial of the bottom note of the octave is equal to the 2nd partial of the higher note of the octave. Same with the 6:3.
@@MrPianoTech Thank you! Now it's totally make sense to me!
@@phillipedward1562 Awesome, glad I could help!
Fujan tuning levers are becoming ubiquitous. And rightly so!
I've been enjoying mine the last 6 years!
@@MrPianoTech They do make a difference, don't they! I think mine was probably the first in Scotland, bought May 2007.
@@DavidBoycePiano Nice!
I'm so sorry everyone, there were 440 likes and I just made it 441! 😭😭😭
😄
Hello ! I hope you don't mind me saying so but
The Bass should be the second step, to be tuned before the treble, specially if the pitch needs any significant alteration; why ? Because the Bass has an important effect on the soundboard; the downbearing of the strings / flattening the soundboard down and moving the tuning pitch down with it.
The other thing I feel I should mention is the lever position shown in your video, at 9 o'clock: the correct position is 3 o'clock in order to protect the tuning pins/pinblock from damage and inevitably at 12 o'clock at the top trouble; I mean; treble
You’re welcome to have your own opinions but since this is the second video you’ve left a comment “correcting” things I think it’s important to note to anyone who might read your comment, as to not be led in the wrong direction, that in all of my videos, tuning, regulation, repair, I always use the specs that the Piano Technicians Guild has deemed correct and I what you’ll need to use to pass the examinations to become and RPT (Registered Piano Technician). Thanks for watching!
..."sounds pretty good " is not good enough.....
Ha, for a video just showing you the technique, yes, it's good enough.
What happened to tuning without electronics? The best way to start tuning is to tune with the ear or you will always rely on electronics.
1. Did you watch the entire video?
2. How long does it take you to tune the temperament by ear?
3. How many pianos do you tune per day?
Frustrating
Sorry man, no serious piano tuner would use an electronic tuner to tune a piano. The piano is tuned by ear, like any other instrument.
A tuner using an electronic tuner doesn't know why he chooses a certain pitch for a sound.
On the other hand, stability in tuning is achieved with a correct use of the tuning key, an issue that the electronic tuner does not solve.
Instead of recommending devices that limit auditory learning, I think you should encourage apprentices to seek full training, thus respecting a centuries-old profession.
I only set the temperament with TuneLab. It's exactly the same temperament if you did that part by ear. It gets you there quicker.
@@MrPianoTech A serious piano tuner also use the ear to build the temperament. Why do you use the Tune Lab for temperament and not for de trebles if we are talking about tune? Is the temperament maybe more difficult?
It's faster by ear, my friend. Only you need to know the method and practice for months to control it.
It is a mistake to show a false image of tuning only saying you can use a piano tuner. Usually the learners think is easy to tune a piano, and soon they take clients to do easy money.
And a real piano tuner don't tune always in the same way. The tune changes if you tune for a soloist or, for example, the piano is going to be use with a orchestra.
We need respect and formation un oye proffesion. Not easy ways. I think your video is not responsible and sells a false image of a profession you last years to learn.
@@pianosfera Have you watched the entire video? A "serious" and professional piano tuner is one who offers the highest quality of work to their customers. Do you work in the field on a regular basis? I tune 4-5 pianos a day. Tuning the temperament by ear does take longer than using a computer and is not as precise on a consistent basis. If you can tune the temperament by ear perfectly and consistently then that's great, but it might not be as accurate as it could be.
Do you said the ear is not accurate? Do you know what are you saying? The highest quality in this field is the formation with experts, not using external devices.
You tune 4-5 piano with your tune lab or ten if you want...this is not a sign of quality. I don't need any external help, like many others. Many people could tune a piano with your tune lab very bad.....
I take part in the field, I have worked in studios and theatres, of course. I learnt with the Steinway&Sons service in my country in Europe and there I have never seen nobody proud using theese devices.
I never said you don't know how to tune. It's imposible for me yo know that, but this video is seen by learners and they need to know that is not the solution.
@@pianosfera Again I ask you have you watched the entire video? This is primarily a video on how to tune a piano by ear. However, if you think you have a better system we should all always be willing to learn and I ask that you make a video and let me know when you post it so we can all learn your techniques.
Really helpful! Thank you.
You're welcome!