I just received my ZT 0452CF on 02/17/21 and the lock bar doesn't go beyond 30% lockup no matter how hard i try to force it over. My serial number on the knife is 22301. So ZT has had a lot of time to correct this issue! I'm very pleased with the fit, finish, and function of this beautiful knife!
Serial number 5025 here, doesn't suffer from this either. So it seems they it relatively early in production. Really unfortunate that the earlier ones suffer from this though.
I just returned a ZT 0561 with exactly the same problem with a too-deep detent hole in the blade. I'm getting a replacement from the dealer, not Kai. It surprises me that QC at ZT is not better. I don't know how knives with such obvious problems would make it through even a cursory Quality Control inspection. If my brand name was "Zero Tolerance", nothing less than perfection would ever get out the door. I have a ZT 0560 and I couldn't be happier with its design and execution.
I know this is a older video but I purchased this knife so I was checking out some reviews. I just want to comment that these American companies need to continue to improve design and function. I've owned business and see this happening. China before has never been able to produce the quality of commercial machinery, electric motors, furniture, quality hand tools (including knives) basically quality metals be it for a high torque gear case or a simple vice. Those days are gone China is going to keep injecting products that will supersede all these failures that American companies make. They are smart and know what us the consumer want. Especially in the hobbies industry since they are non essentials and expensive, look at the market share of kizer, reate, rike, WE. If you told me 2 years ago a Chinese company can make ti frame lock Flipper with a designs that are borderline full customs and functions just as good i would have probably doubted you. These guys don't miss a beat they study and reverse engineer, improve, and give us what we want at fraction of the price. They are capitalizing on the disappointments from SOME companies and now they are credible companies. I welcome them because competition is great keeps everyone on there toes and not to comfortable. I commend this video because they need to get called out. I love to buy American but don't take our money for granted
My ZT0452GL which i just got. I have no problem with it. It is just black DLC Ti and Glow CF. No problem. I know this video is 4 years old. But they got rid of this issue.
idk if someone said it in,the comments or not but the 0450 is not steel on titanium lock up its steel on steel this is a steel insert on the titanium right where it locks up.
Just tested my ZT 0452CF and the same problem that you found on yours. Needless to say it's going back as well. Serial number on mine is 500. Again thanks for the info.
ZT has been having lock bar over travel issues since they introduced the steel insert in the 0801. This issue is nothing new. I had the same problem with my 0801. Their service department supervisor told me he checked other 0801's and they all exhibited the same behavior. Rather than bring this up with the engineering team, he tells me it must be indicative to the design. He then replaced my 0801 with one that exhibited less of this behavior. I addressed this issue in the forums only to have the fan boys say there's nothing wrong with this issue.
duroSIG556R ZT had the same problem with their 0560/0561 which had no steel lock-bar insert. As shown in Part 2, I demonstrated this and how it too would lock open to about 95% and get stuck open. You're definitely right about it being a design problem. Their geometry is off. I have MANY knives with a frame-lock, both with and without steel lock-bar inserts that have no problem at all. I understand that it's acceptable for the lock-bar to move a little under use, but it should never move over as much as ZT knives usually do. Reate and Custom Knife Factory have had some of the best locks I've seen thus-far.
Custom Edge Works Yeah. I loved the 0561 but the design had inherent flaws. Once the lock bar was defeated with a little pressure to the blade, I wanted nothing to do with it. Both of my 0452's do not travel to 100 percent lock up like my 0801. One of my 0452's required some serious break in, in order to break the detent. Once I realized it just needed some wear, I was content.
What an absolute crock! You can clearly see the lateral force you had to apply on the lock bar. How much torque is necessary on a knife to cut cardboard....what ever
For what it's worth, I also experiences this problem with an 0450. Granted a much smaller and thin knife, the amount of travel was HUGE, and just from me squeezing it with one hand (not even pressing directly on the lock bar) I could get damn near 100%
I just got one about two weeks ago... same thing... nearly 100%. The good thing is that it is still easy to slide the frame back to the unlocked position.
Great video; I'm a huge ZT fan, and Dmitry Sinkevich is my favorite knife-maker, so I was sorry to hear that some knives have problems. The knife in the video appears to be #0185, or something close; mine is serial number 0579 (I don't know if it's relevant or not); I squeezed the hell out of it -- no movement; I then tried pressing on the lockbar with quite a bit of direct pressure (reasonably -- I'm not going to go psycho on it, and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy -- but much more force than I'll apply during usage), and it hasn't budged. The lock geometry seems pretty good, with an 8-10 degree bevel on the tang lockface. I wonder if the steel insert could be adjusted to compensate for the problem... I hope this is a freak incident, but unfortunately, I think this might be more than an isolated concern. Mine's okay, but I'm concerned it could be related to the stop-pin being gradually forced back on the carbon fiber scale, especially with the force this flips open with, or sustained pressure from cutting cardboard (for example). I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, so we'll see. I also would have liked to see M390 or CTS-204P on the 0452CF, like the 0562CF (all these damn numbers!), but I disagree about the carbon fiber. The Russian variant of the 0454 sells with G-10 instead of CF, a step down; CTS-204P is an awesome steel, but a step down from the CPM D2/Sandvik Combo-blade; and trades the sculpted titanium clip for a stamped one; yet it's selling for a higher price than the original 0454 was selling at -- $532.00. I found the 0454 going for 1000-1500$ on eBay, less on the forums. The G-10 0454 should go for 300-320$, at most. It's very nice, and FRWK is selling them cheaper than anywhere else (some assholes are trying to squeeze $1000+ out of people), but it's not worth the money... to me, at the moment.
fuzzuck I'm glad you're not having problems with yours! Yes I feel that for the price of the 0452CF, it warrants having M390 like the 0562CF. I'm honestly confused why it doesn't, but I heard that ZT has been having problems getting their hands on more M390 lately. I agree that CF is more expensive, but I'm just tired of seeing it on so many knives. It also offers less traction than G10. Aside from the fact that the original 0454 had the unique composite blade, the steel used in it is far inferior to the 204P IMO. The sub-frame lock on the original was nice, but I enjoy the new 0454 handle just as much. Personally, I think that both 0454's are equal in value, but for different reasons. The original has a more complex design which I doubt many people will actually use, making it mostly a knife only for collecting. The new 0454 I feel will be a better user-blade, and arguably a good tactical/defensive blade. Just my 2 cents, but I'll be elaborating more in Part 2.
Custom Edge Works Well said. It's true there was a M390 shortage, so ZT has switched the 0562CF and 0620CF to CTS-204P. Great choice -- its exactly the same as M390, without the shortages, and made in the US instead of Austria, which is more consistent with their Made in the USA selling point. I just care about getting the best steel out there on a regular basis. The 0452CF may switch over soon as well.
Sorry to hear that man. The angle on the tang of the blade on yours must not be correct or something. Mine has been fine serial #1370, I can't push the lockbar in on mine very far and the lockup has been early and extremely solid. I know ZT/KAI will take care of you, they have some of the best customer service I've ever experienced!
For the dealer exclusive, just take a stubby carbide bit that is 0.5 to 1 mm larger than the smaller hole and drill about 1-2 turns to chanfor it a bit. Then try it, its gonna be good ;)
Yes I feel the same way about all the carbon fibre but it will fade and the next thing will come in, whatever that may be, and those carbon fibre knives,in 10 or 20 years, will be worth more from a collector standpoint. It will mark a place in time for knives.
I've had my at 0452 for about a month now gripping the knife as hard as I can I get no more then about a 50 percent lock engagement same with my at 0562 I think you just purchased one with some isuues/lemon
I had the original 0454. Issue was that there was play in the closed position. The blade would rattle. Plus there was vertical play. Sent it in and they did nothing to it. Sold it. Too many issues with zts these days. Had the 0392 with vertical play as well.
Bedgoo I had that same problem with their 0562 where it would rattle when closed because their pivot location was out of spec. I'm very nervous about ZT's quality control over the last 1.5-2 years. I really hope they can get it together.
I have a ZT 0450 and it does the same thing as the U.S. version, didn't know I had a problem till I saw this video. Will be calling ZT or the place I bought it from.
+Don Nellis Hope this helped and best of luck to you! ZT has been pretty good about righting their wrongs. I'd bet they'll take care of ya. Thanks for watching!
Are you concerned that modifications to your ZT, like anodizing them, voids the warranty. If so, what happens if you run into problems as you have so rightly pointed out? Perhaps your solution is to test first and then modify. Is that right?
I would assume that certain modifications would void the warranty and agree that testing prior to modifying seems like the best choice. Particularly with anodizing, it can change slight tolerances if precautions aren't taken. Thanks for watching.
Just received my new 0452 cf and it's perfect. In fact it's better than my 0562 cf. sorry for your lemon, it happens. It was probably boxed on a Friday.
Damn bro just tested my 0452. mine does the same thing regarding lockup. I honestly don't know that it's a lemon issue. May just be a flaw in the design 😵. I'm really interested to find out if yours was corrected and if so how they did it. took almost no effort to get mine to go 100%. I have no doubt that if it can be corrected that ZT will take care of it no problem cause they're an excellent company.
My 0452cf that I just got has the exact same detent problem as your 0452-204p, but it doesn't have the secondary hole. if the lock bar is pressed it clicks into the detent farther and is not impossible to open, but quite difficult. It doesn't have your lock over travel problem, though.
K-dog701 I'm sorry to hear that you're having that issue with your knife. I do have to say that I'd much prefer to have the problem you're having opposed to the lock-engagement issue. I say that because of my experiences in Part 2 of this video, where ZT was able to correct the detent issue, but unable to fix the frame-lock. So based on my experiences, I feel confident that ZT would be able to fix your problem. Let me know how it goes if you decide to send it back. Thanks for watching.
Custom Edge Works Good news! I managed to fix the detent issue myself. I don't have the tools to do anything with the detent hole, so I super-glued a very small piece of aluminum from a Monster can tab onto the inside of the lock bar just behind teh first finger choil and carefully filed it down until it perfectly spaced the lock bar from the blade at the spot where it had just the right detent, but could not be pushed in any farther. It sounds ghetto, but it works perfectly! I don't know whether I would suggest others with the same problem try it though.
Wow.. thanks for the info. What do you think about the pits in the CF noticeable around 3:50? Got CF for my 940 from Ryan and there is non of that at all.
Dominick Clutch The poor finish on the CF is a little disappointing. Good eye, and that's something I'll address in Part 2. Waiting for ZT to repair and return. They've only had them for a couple weeks now, so it still might be another month before I get them back, test them and draw my final conclusions. Thanks for watching!
Funny how folks want to judge you for not being accurate lol proof is in your demo. ZT does amazing in Talk or Hypothetical. But when actually testing it fails over and over. I use my knives there not decor in a draw for me. I appreciate that you are willing to take the plunge in reality. Nice video thanks for sharing
I have never commented on any board or anything else before. I have 4 ZT knives and was very excited about my new 452 for EDC. After about a month of regular use and cutting nothing more than the credit card paper in my restaurant the blade became very loose. I sent it back to ZT and told them what had happened and they just sharpened it and sent it back with no comment. It still loosens up every few days and I have to tighten the blade up. Never had this trouble with any other supposed quality knife. Like my other ZT knives but the 452 is a loser and I was very disappointed with the response, or lack thereof by ZT. Either a bad design or bad manufacturing, doesn't matter results are the same
+Johnny Evans Sorry to hear it! Accidents happen and a company cannot produce perfect products 100% of the time. However, there's nothing more important than resolving product-related issues. That being said, if it's a design flaw...it's far more difficult for them to fix your issue. As cool as their knives look and regardless of the quality materials they use, they need to get their tolerances to an acceptable level more consistently from what I and many others have been seeing. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Bought a second generation 550 years ago, lock would fail under light hand pressure right out of the box. Luckily I still have all my fingers but needless to say not impressed. Kind of felt like buying a brand-new car and having the brakes not work.
Polymaths'R'Us Zero Tolerance makes some great knives. If they cant get their frame-locks to function properly, it renders their knives useless...aside from pocket jewelry of course.
As you squeeze the handle the carbon fiber flexes ever so slightly which bends the blade towards that side, resulting in the lock bar bending further under the blade. If you combine the two knives together you could probably make one good one.
Sad to say my 0560BW's lockup came the exact same way. Thankfully I seem to be able to get it open when it happens. But still, this is *extremely* disappointing for a knife I paid $240CAD for.
+Dalton Hallett Same here. I'm selling my 0560BW after I review it. Should be soon. Too bad too...since its a good knife otherwise! Thanks for watching!
+DarkSim77 Absolutely. I'm sure there are many ZT knives without problems. It seems that based on the comments on both my videos that many others are having the same or similar problems. Out of the 26 ZT's I've owned....only 3 remain in my collection since the rest were faulty. Not good enough odds for me personally.
+Custom Edge Works Own 3 ZT,s - 0600, 0562cf and the 0392, all users and they have no issues. All 3 are outstanding in F&F. The one in your video definitely has a problem and would be making a very quick trip back to ZT. The O452cf is not a cheap knife and for the price should be made a lot better than yours was. Definitely a fail on ZT's part. *Edit- Watched part of the second video, they should have fixed that 0452cf for you..ZT fail.
Henk Hakvoort Yeah a lot of potential with these. I'm looking forward to getting them back once repaired! Good observation on the similarities with Al-Mar/Mcusta. I too see that in the blade design.
got the 454 this week to UK illegal unfortunately but I have private land so, thems the breaks.. anyway I like it, liner lock is a tad thin but who cares.
+dfcvda I'm very excited for you! The 454 has grown to be my absolute favorite large EDC. That's saying a lot since I have hundreds of knives to compare it to. Nice choice brother. I hope it serves you well! It's taken some SERIOUS abuse from me.
not to positive on your point about TI on steel blade will not last! maybe steel on steel will last a bit longer,but not that much,and don't forget these are not custom's!theres going to be lemons in the bunch,thats life.
The only liner locking mechanism that I had no issues were the Compression Locks (featured on my PM2). I had few cheaper folders with liner locks, and they all jammed... same result as your 500+ dollar folder lol.
+냄새꾸리꾸리한 발까락 I've seen Compression locks on the PM2 fail as well. I've found that the strongest locks for hard-use are back-locks and button-locks. However, the frame lock on my $500+ knife has ended up being one of the most solid frame-locks I have. I've been beating the crap out of that knife since the video and it's now my primary large EDC of choice. I think I'll have to do a follow-up video. Thanks for watching!
+Custom Edge Works I personally never seen the compression lock fail, during normal ideal tasks. Infact, the only locking mechanism I seen fail were liner locks (also during normal tasks). The only time I seen other locks fail were when they were intentionally tested with extreme scenerio in mind. Basically they were pushed beyond the limits, and were expected to break (some sources stop at certain lb. force since its their maximum testing limit). My friend chopped a small ' thin tree with his PM2 few years ago and his PM2 still function optimally. I often hear people bicker about locking mechanism after a knife has gone through extreme tests. I personally never have been in a situation where I applied more than 200lb.+ force on a locking mechanism. If Compression Locks were failing often under ideal normal tasks, I do not think the PM2 would have lasted this far with such great reputation. And Spyderco would have upgraded the mechanism (they seem to listen to their customers and fix problems, or put out a upgraded version of a model). I honestly think too many people take the extreme testing too seriously, as if such amount of pressure will be applied on daily basis. Some seem to take it up a notch and bash the brand of a knife as whole, just based off of such testings.
+Custom Edge Works I forgot to also mention that I do realize certain brands liner locking mechanism tend to be much more durable. I wasnt trying to come off as saying I think all liners suck. Its just that I broke several liner locks when other locks used in same tasks had no issues. Honestly, I can mention several brands that have liner locks which I haven't had issues with... such as benchmade and sypderco. But that does not mean all liners are as sturdy or durable. In general sense, liner locks tend to be the weaker locking mechanisms versus other locking mechanism.
Your paranoia about lockup is unfounded and actually just wrong. Short of 50% lockup is BAD quality. Less and you're now talking about depending on a tiny sliver of the blade thickness to hold any and all back force. In extreme cases this can sheer off the blade tang. The only reason to want LESS lockup is to account for wear. However, wear is minimal on a well designed knife and it should take tens of thousands of open close cycles to go from 50% to 100%..and even then that is not a problem unless it affects the ability to release the lock. With steel lock bar inserts, this is a thing of the past as they are replaceable. The need for early lockup is the type of urban legend started by a loudmouth internet troll who just yells longer and louder than his contemporaries that "this is the way it should be" until, eventually, lemming like followers spread the fertilizer far and wide and another urban myth is born. Conclusion: if you want to unload some late lockup knives for a bargain price because they are defective, drop me an e-mail and I'll happily take them off your hands.
Len Zielenski Even though I clearly disagree, I appreciate your feedback. I've got about 25 years of hard-using knives, to include folding knives with frame-locks. If you can think of it...it's happened, and yes I've heard of sheering. However, my feedback is not paranoia, but is completely experienced-based. I was very clear that I prefer early lock-up over late lock-up for wear reasons. I want the knife to last. Of the numerous frame-lock knives I've used while active duty as well as other hard-use scenarios, I've always chose to use knives with early lockup. I have never had a lock sheer or fail...ever. Many people I know shared the same mentality as you, and preferred the later lock-up. It is extremely common that their knives failed on them. As long as we're talking about steel-on-steel frame-locks...30% lockup is perfect. 50% is acceptable...and anything later is risky. I test my knives hard and see what works. Late lockup does not work for me or anyone I know. It's clear you've had different experiences, and I'm glad you've found what works for you.
+thebusinessend1 Yes, I am certain they were not knock-offs. They were sent in and serviced by Zero Tolerance, which they would not do if they were not genuine ZT products. Check out part 2 of this and you'll get more information on what ZT was able to do to resolve these issues. Thanks for watching!
+Custom Edge Works Thats good to hear. Getting some bogus knives instead of the real thing is no fun I would bet. Odd that you had such issues with it. I just ordered a ZT hoping the quality is up to par. If so I may order another tomorrow. Went with a 560 and I think Ill grab a 566 and a 450
This is one of the reasons I'm not as fond of framelocks as everyone else seems to be. Actually I sometimes argue that framelocks, especially made in titanium, are inferior to many other locks. To many details that's need to be perfect in order to work properly. Even well established makers gets it wrong...did anyone say Strider? :-)
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I just received my ZT 0452CF on 02/17/21 and the lock bar doesn't go beyond 30% lockup no matter how hard i try to force it over. My serial number on the knife is 22301. So ZT has had a lot of time to correct this issue! I'm very pleased with the fit, finish, and function of this beautiful knife!
Serial number 5025 here, doesn't suffer from this either. So it seems they it relatively early in production. Really unfortunate that the earlier ones suffer from this though.
Just bought one. It looks like they got the problem fixed on mine at least.
You should probably use a box cutter to cut boxes. the knife isn't really geared for that.
sure could.
That was funny
I just returned a ZT 0561 with exactly the same problem with a too-deep detent hole in the blade. I'm getting a replacement from the dealer, not Kai. It surprises me that QC at ZT is not better. I don't know how knives with such obvious problems would make it through even a cursory Quality Control inspection. If my brand name was "Zero Tolerance", nothing less than perfection would ever get out the door. I have a ZT 0560 and I couldn't be happier with its design and execution.
I know this is a older video but I purchased this knife so I was checking out some reviews. I just want to comment that these American companies need to continue to improve design and function. I've owned business and see this happening. China before has never been able to produce the quality of commercial machinery, electric motors, furniture, quality hand tools (including knives) basically quality metals be it for a high torque gear case or a simple vice. Those days are gone China is going to keep injecting products that will supersede all these failures that American companies make. They are smart and know what us the consumer want. Especially in the hobbies industry since they are non essentials and expensive, look at the market share of kizer, reate, rike, WE. If you told me 2 years ago a Chinese company can make ti frame lock Flipper with a designs that are borderline full customs and functions just as good i would have probably doubted you. These guys don't miss a beat they study and reverse engineer, improve, and give us what we want at fraction of the price. They are capitalizing on the disappointments from SOME companies and now they are credible companies. I welcome them because competition is great keeps everyone on there toes and not to comfortable. I commend this video because they need to get called out. I love to buy American but don't take our money for granted
instablaster...
My ZT0452GL which i just got. I have no problem with it. It is just black DLC Ti and Glow CF. No problem. I know this video is 4 years old. But they got rid of this issue.
Very glad to hear that!
Hmmm. My 0452 CF has a beveled blade tang..not possible to push the lock bar in any further it’s at about 40%
idk if someone said it in,the comments or not but the 0450 is not steel on titanium lock up its steel on steel this is a steel insert on the titanium right where it locks up.
Mine has the same problem but worse I went to spyderco never looked back, ZT is too focused on fancy bullshit
Great video!
unbelievable that a $500 knife has that failure.
Cheers
BB
It looks to that the wrong size drill was used on the detent hole.To correct this a larger hole was drilled but not deep enough.Haste makes waste.
Thanks for sharing! My 0452cf I just received is behaving just like your 0454 as well.
moedislo Wow, I'm hearing about a lot of problems with the detent. I'm sure ZT will fix it for you.
That's such a let down! I have 3 perfect ZT's. I couldn't imagine getting my hopes up and getting two duds. Hope they get them fixed quickly for you.
Holy shit! Never knew that second one existed. That thing is AMAZING!! DAMN! Need!
great video!! Thank you
Just tested my ZT 0452CF and the same problem that you found on yours.
Needless to say it's going back as well. Serial number on mine is 500.
Again thanks for the info.
sniperryno wow! Good to know and thanks for the feedback!
ZT has been having lock bar over travel issues since they introduced the steel insert in the 0801. This issue is nothing new. I had the same problem with my 0801. Their service department supervisor told me he checked other 0801's and they all exhibited the same behavior. Rather than bring this up with the engineering team, he tells me it must be indicative to the design. He then replaced my 0801 with one that exhibited less of this behavior. I addressed this issue in the forums only to have the fan boys say there's nothing wrong with this issue.
duroSIG556R ZT had the same problem with their 0560/0561 which had no steel lock-bar insert. As shown in Part 2, I demonstrated this and how it too would lock open to about 95% and get stuck open. You're definitely right about it being a design problem. Their geometry is off. I have MANY knives with a frame-lock, both with and without steel lock-bar inserts that have no problem at all. I understand that it's acceptable for the lock-bar to move a little under use, but it should never move over as much as ZT knives usually do. Reate and Custom Knife Factory have had some of the best locks I've seen thus-far.
Custom Edge Works Yeah. I loved the 0561 but the design had inherent flaws. Once the lock bar was defeated with a little pressure to the blade, I wanted nothing to do with it. Both of my 0452's do not travel to 100 percent lock up like my 0801. One of my 0452's required some serious break in, in order to break the detent. Once I realized it just needed some wear, I was content.
What an absolute crock! You can clearly see the lateral force you had to apply on the lock bar.
How much torque is necessary on a knife to cut cardboard....what ever
I have 0452CF too. The lock bar engagement is a little bit shallow. It's only about one third of the blade thickness.
For what it's worth, I also experiences this problem with an 0450. Granted a much smaller and thin knife, the amount of travel was HUGE, and just from me squeezing it with one hand (not even pressing directly on the lock bar) I could get damn near 100%
I just got one about two weeks ago... same thing... nearly 100%. The good thing is that it is still easy to slide the frame back to the unlocked position.
Great video; I'm a huge ZT fan, and Dmitry Sinkevich is my favorite knife-maker, so I was sorry to hear that some knives have problems. The knife in the video appears to be #0185, or something close; mine is serial number 0579 (I don't know if it's relevant or not); I squeezed the hell out of it -- no movement; I then tried pressing on the lockbar with quite a bit of direct pressure (reasonably -- I'm not going to go psycho on it, and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy -- but much more force than I'll apply during usage), and it hasn't budged. The lock geometry seems pretty good, with an 8-10 degree bevel on the tang lockface. I wonder if the steel insert could be adjusted to compensate for the problem... I hope this is a freak incident, but unfortunately, I think this might be more than an isolated concern. Mine's okay, but I'm concerned it could be related to the stop-pin being gradually forced back on the carbon fiber scale, especially with the force this flips open with, or sustained pressure from cutting cardboard (for example). I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, so we'll see.
I also would have liked to see M390 or CTS-204P on the 0452CF, like the 0562CF (all these damn numbers!), but I disagree about the carbon fiber. The Russian variant of the 0454 sells with G-10 instead of CF, a step down; CTS-204P is an awesome steel, but a step down from the CPM D2/Sandvik Combo-blade; and trades the sculpted titanium clip for a stamped one; yet it's selling for a higher price than the original 0454 was selling at -- $532.00. I found the 0454 going for 1000-1500$ on eBay, less on the forums. The G-10 0454 should go for 300-320$, at most. It's very nice, and FRWK is selling them cheaper than anywhere else (some assholes are trying to squeeze $1000+ out of people), but it's not worth the money... to me, at the moment.
fuzzuck I'm glad you're not having problems with yours! Yes I feel that for the price of the 0452CF, it warrants having M390 like the 0562CF. I'm honestly confused why it doesn't, but I heard that ZT has been having problems getting their hands on more M390 lately. I agree that CF is more expensive, but I'm just tired of seeing it on so many knives. It also offers less traction than G10. Aside from the fact that the original 0454 had the unique composite blade, the steel used in it is far inferior to the 204P IMO. The sub-frame lock on the original was nice, but I enjoy the new 0454 handle just as much. Personally, I think that both 0454's are equal in value, but for different reasons. The original has a more complex design which I doubt many people will actually use, making it mostly a knife only for collecting. The new 0454 I feel will be a better user-blade, and arguably a good tactical/defensive blade. Just my 2 cents, but I'll be elaborating more in Part 2.
Custom Edge Works Well said. It's true there was a M390 shortage, so ZT has switched the 0562CF and 0620CF to CTS-204P. Great choice -- its exactly the same as M390, without the shortages, and made in the US instead of Austria, which is more consistent with their Made in the USA selling point. I just care about getting the best steel out there on a regular basis. The 0452CF may switch over soon as well.
Sorry to hear that man. The angle on the tang of the blade on yours must not be correct or something. Mine has been fine serial #1370, I can't push the lockbar in on mine very far and the lockup has been early and extremely solid. I know ZT/KAI will take care of you, they have some of the best customer service I've ever experienced!
For the dealer exclusive, just take a stubby carbide bit that is 0.5 to 1 mm larger than the smaller hole and drill about 1-2 turns to chanfor it a bit. Then try it, its gonna be good ;)
Yes I feel the same way about all the carbon fibre but it will fade and the next thing will come in, whatever that may be, and those carbon fibre knives,in 10 or 20 years, will be worth more from a collector standpoint. It will mark a place in time for knives.
I would suggest that don't be bending it out at the milled out area of the lock bar.
I've had my at 0452 for about a month now gripping the knife as hard as I can I get no more then about a 50 percent lock engagement same with my at 0562 I think you just purchased one with some isuues/lemon
tony cash Glad to hear it! Yeah I guess I had some bad luck. I have seen this happen on many of their knives though.
Custom Edge Works happened on my 0562 and on a ‘knockout’ I have. Kershaw kind of sucks. They design and sell knives for wannabes and couch commandos
Just received serial #3698. Excellent lock up, right on the left of the tang. NO slide over at all.
+Ozarks Magic Awesome! Glad you got a keeper!!
I don't like frame locks. It gives me the willies having part of the frame have to bend like that.
I'm thinking the problem with your Zero Tolerance lockbar interface is the tolerance isn't zero.
Blade HQ doesn't sell clones.
I had the original 0454. Issue was that there was play in the closed position. The blade would rattle. Plus there was vertical play. Sent it in and they did nothing to it. Sold it. Too many issues with zts these days. Had the 0392 with vertical play as well.
Bedgoo I had that same problem with their 0562 where it would rattle when closed because their pivot location was out of spec. I'm very nervous about ZT's quality control over the last 1.5-2 years. I really hope they can get it together.
I have a ZT 0450 and it does the same thing as the U.S. version, didn't know I had a problem till I saw this video. Will be calling ZT or the place I bought it from.
+Don Nellis Hope this helped and best of luck to you! ZT has been pretty good about righting their wrongs. I'd bet they'll take care of ya. Thanks for watching!
0k I love this knife I don't have any of those issue that you suffer. God I LOVE THIS BLADE!!!!
Ben Reidy Great! Glad to hear it and hoping that either ZT got their act together...or maybe I just had bad luck.
I don't know ser. 14535...plenty of run to figure out problems. Oh and I have e a bench/emerson auto1992...wanna do some trading.:)
Are you concerned that modifications to your ZT, like anodizing them, voids the warranty. If so, what happens if you run into problems as you have so rightly pointed out? Perhaps your solution is to test first and then modify. Is that right?
I would assume that certain modifications would void the warranty and agree that testing prior to modifying seems like the best choice. Particularly with anodizing, it can change slight tolerances if precautions aren't taken. Thanks for watching.
I have this in m390.beautiful collection
I hace no problems with my 0550 or my 0560...yet :-0
Was about to pull the trigger on the 0450 but.....hmmmmm not sure anymore.
Great vid.
Just received my new 0452 cf and it's perfect. In fact it's better than my 0562 cf. sorry for your lemon, it happens. It was probably boxed on a Friday.
Robert Standerford Haha, I bet you're right. It's hard to find good help...especially on Fridays.
great catch good eye thanx
Damn bro just tested my 0452. mine does the same thing regarding lockup. I honestly don't know that it's a lemon issue. May just be a flaw in the design 😵. I'm really interested to find out if yours was corrected and if so how they did it. took almost no effort to get mine to go 100%. I have no doubt that if it can be corrected that ZT will take care of it no problem cause they're an excellent company.
+tactical intolerance Good luck and yeah they're pretty good!
My 0452cf that I just got has the exact same detent problem as your 0452-204p, but it doesn't have the secondary hole. if the lock bar is pressed it clicks into the detent farther and is not impossible to open, but quite difficult. It doesn't have your lock over travel problem, though.
K-dog701 I'm sorry to hear that you're having that issue with your knife. I do have to say that I'd much prefer to have the problem you're having opposed to the lock-engagement issue. I say that because of my experiences in Part 2 of this video, where ZT was able to correct the detent issue, but unable to fix the frame-lock. So based on my experiences, I feel confident that ZT would be able to fix your problem. Let me know how it goes if you decide to send it back. Thanks for watching.
Custom Edge Works Good news! I managed to fix the detent issue myself. I don't have the tools to do anything with the detent hole, so I super-glued a very small piece of aluminum from a Monster can tab onto the inside of the lock bar just behind teh first finger choil and carefully filed it down until it perfectly spaced the lock bar from the blade at the spot where it had just the right detent, but could not be pushed in any farther. It sounds ghetto, but it works perfectly! I don't know whether I would suggest others with the same problem try it though.
K-dog701 Wow! Sounds like you MacGyvered the hell out of that knife. Glad you got it working right.
Wow.. thanks for the info. What do you think about the pits in the CF noticeable around 3:50? Got CF for my 940 from Ryan and there is non of that at all.
Dominick Clutch The poor finish on the CF is a little disappointing. Good eye, and that's something I'll address in Part 2. Waiting for ZT to repair and return. They've only had them for a couple weeks now, so it still might be another month before I get them back, test them and draw my final conclusions. Thanks for watching!
I have this problem on my Spyderco Military, its annoying.
8:50 fucking linerlocks... getting a benchmade...
I have many Benchmade knives. Love them all. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the info.
Funny how folks want to judge you for not being accurate lol proof is in your demo. ZT does amazing in Talk or Hypothetical. But when actually testing it fails over and over. I use my knives there not decor in a draw for me. I appreciate that you are willing to take the plunge in reality. Nice video thanks for sharing
My 801 did the same thing, my 0620cf in m390 did the same thing, my 0560 had a major meltdown
my guess would be to unscrew 1/4 turn on little star screw the lock bar? that's a maybe
As many lock bar of this design they are doing, they ought to perfect it by now
I know this is old af. But I have a 562cf that has about 15 to 20 percent lockup and it doesn't shift at all on squeeze and push test
I have never commented on any board or anything else before. I have 4 ZT knives and was very excited about my new 452 for EDC. After about a month of regular use and cutting nothing more than the credit card paper in my restaurant the blade became very loose. I sent it back to ZT and told them what had happened and they just sharpened it and sent it back with no comment. It still loosens up every few days and I have to tighten the blade up. Never had this trouble with any other supposed quality knife. Like my other ZT knives but the 452 is a loser and I was very disappointed with the response, or lack thereof by ZT. Either a bad design or bad manufacturing, doesn't matter results are the same
+Johnny Evans Sorry to hear it! Accidents happen and a company cannot produce perfect products 100% of the time. However, there's nothing more important than resolving product-related issues. That being said, if it's a design flaw...it's far more difficult for them to fix your issue. As cool as their knives look and regardless of the quality materials they use, they need to get their tolerances to an acceptable level more consistently from what I and many others have been seeing. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Bought a second generation 550 years ago, lock would fail under light hand pressure right out of the box. Luckily I still have all my fingers but needless to say not impressed. Kind of felt like buying a brand-new car and having the brakes not work.
Polymaths'R'Us Zero Tolerance makes some great knives. If they cant get their frame-locks to function properly, it renders their knives useless...aside from pocket jewelry of course.
As you squeeze the handle the carbon fiber flexes ever so slightly which bends the blade towards that side, resulting in the lock bar bending further under the blade. If you combine the two knives together you could probably make one good one.
Mine is serial number 0039 and does not have this problem.
Hallucinosis Thanks for the feedback and I'm happy to hear it!
I can muscle my 0804 lock over as well, though its not very hard to unlock, and resets at 50% lockup
Has anybody experienced these issues with the 0620cf models? Maybe the frame lock is a flawed system?
Hi, I just bought a 0452CF. Do you think they have fixed the problem?
Sad to say my 0560BW's lockup came the exact same way.
Thankfully I seem to be able to get it open when it happens. But still, this is *extremely* disappointing for a knife I paid $240CAD for.
+Dalton Hallett Same here. I'm selling my 0560BW after I review it. Should be soon. Too bad too...since its a good knife otherwise! Thanks for watching!
I'm going to see if I can just get the lock bar insert replaced. That would save a big headache.
Production knives=they are all going to vary from knife to knife..the next one made right after yours could have been dead nuts on perfect.
+DarkSim77 Absolutely. I'm sure there are many ZT knives without problems. It seems that based on the comments on both my videos that many others are having the same or similar problems. Out of the 26 ZT's I've owned....only 3 remain in my collection since the rest were faulty. Not good enough odds for me personally.
+Custom Edge Works Own 3 ZT,s - 0600, 0562cf and the 0392, all users and they have no issues. All 3 are outstanding in F&F.
The one in your video definitely has a problem and would be making a very quick trip back to ZT.
The O452cf is not a cheap knife and for the price should be made a lot better than yours was. Definitely a fail on ZT's part.
*Edit- Watched part of the second video, they should have fixed that 0452cf for you..ZT fail.
this is the weakness of the framelock/linerlock
kerpal321 True, unless they're made correctly. Reate gets it right every time.
Has the company addressed this issue?????
yea I'd send that back to ZT
It's the steel insert Every new ZT does this really bums me out
So, what is the status? Hope ZT made it right.
Maybe that detent ball lock can be used as a child safety lock lol. Or people won't be able to use the knife against you!
Mmm. pitty of the faults. Besides that, the design is great. Nice slim and long blade. Looks a bit al-mar/mcusta'ish. I like it very much.
Henk Hakvoort Yeah a lot of potential with these. I'm looking forward to getting them back once repaired! Good observation on the similarities with Al-Mar/Mcusta. I too see that in the blade design.
It's obviously not enough ramp on the blade tang
And that's really not going to cause any problems
got the 454 this week to UK illegal unfortunately but I have private land so, thems the breaks.. anyway I like it, liner lock is a tad thin but who cares.
+dfcvda I'm very excited for you! The 454 has grown to be my absolute favorite large EDC. That's saying a lot since I have hundreds of knives to compare it to. Nice choice brother. I hope it serves you well! It's taken some SERIOUS abuse from me.
thanks, its already proving to be better than I thought.
not to positive on your point about TI on steel blade will not last! maybe steel on steel will last a bit longer,but not that much,and don't forget these are not custom's!theres going to be lemons in the bunch,thats life.
+Blane Biondolillo Totally agree. Lemons happen...even with customs.
that's why i like integral
The only liner locking mechanism that I had no issues were the Compression Locks (featured on my PM2).
I had few cheaper folders with liner locks, and they all jammed... same result as your 500+ dollar folder lol.
+냄새꾸리꾸리한 발까락 I've seen Compression locks on the PM2 fail as well. I've found that the strongest locks for hard-use are back-locks and button-locks. However, the frame lock on my $500+ knife has ended up being one of the most solid frame-locks I have. I've been beating the crap out of that knife since the video and it's now my primary large EDC of choice. I think I'll have to do a follow-up video. Thanks for watching!
+Custom Edge Works
I personally never seen the compression lock fail, during normal ideal tasks. Infact, the only locking mechanism I seen fail were liner locks (also during normal tasks). The only time I seen other locks fail were when they were intentionally tested with extreme scenerio in mind. Basically they were pushed beyond the limits, and were expected to break (some sources stop at certain lb. force since its their maximum testing limit).
My friend chopped a small ' thin tree with his PM2 few years ago and his PM2 still function optimally.
I often hear people bicker about locking mechanism after a knife has gone through extreme tests. I personally never have been in a situation where I applied more than 200lb.+ force on a locking mechanism.
If Compression Locks were failing often under ideal normal tasks, I do not think the PM2 would have lasted this far with such great reputation. And Spyderco would have upgraded the mechanism (they seem to listen to their customers and fix problems, or put out a upgraded version of a model). I honestly think too many people take the extreme testing too seriously, as if such amount of pressure will be applied on daily basis. Some seem to take it up a notch and bash the brand of a knife as whole, just based off of such testings.
+Custom Edge Works
I forgot to also mention that I do realize certain brands liner locking mechanism tend to be much more durable. I wasnt trying to come off as saying I think all liners suck. Its just that I broke several liner locks when other locks used in same tasks had no issues. Honestly, I can mention several brands that have liner locks which I haven't had issues with... such as benchmade and sypderco. But that does not mean all liners are as sturdy or durable. In general sense, liner locks tend to be the weaker locking mechanisms versus other locking mechanism.
Exchange it?
Did they fix it?
Your paranoia about lockup is unfounded and actually just wrong. Short of 50% lockup is BAD quality. Less and you're now talking about depending on a tiny sliver of the blade thickness to hold any and all back force. In extreme cases this can sheer off the blade tang. The only reason to want LESS lockup is to account for wear. However, wear is minimal on a well designed knife and it should take tens of thousands of open close cycles to go from 50% to 100%..and even then that is not a problem unless it affects the ability to release the lock. With steel lock bar inserts, this is a thing of the past as they are replaceable. The need for early lockup is the type of urban legend started by a loudmouth internet troll who just yells longer and louder than his contemporaries that "this is the way it should be" until, eventually, lemming like followers spread the fertilizer far and wide and another urban myth is born.
Conclusion: if you want to unload some late lockup knives for a bargain price because they are defective, drop me an e-mail and I'll happily take them off your hands.
Len Zielenski Even though I clearly disagree, I appreciate your feedback. I've got about 25 years of hard-using knives, to include folding knives with frame-locks. If you can think of it...it's happened, and yes I've heard of sheering. However, my feedback is not paranoia, but is completely experienced-based. I was very clear that I prefer early lock-up over late lock-up for wear reasons. I want the knife to last. Of the numerous frame-lock knives I've used while active duty as well as other hard-use scenarios, I've always chose to use knives with early lockup. I have never had a lock sheer or fail...ever. Many people I know shared the same mentality as you, and preferred the later lock-up. It is extremely common that their knives failed on them. As long as we're talking about steel-on-steel frame-locks...30% lockup is perfect. 50% is acceptable...and anything later is risky. I test my knives hard and see what works. Late lockup does not work for me or anyone I know. It's clear you've had different experiences, and I'm glad you've found what works for you.
You sure it isn't a clone? There is a clone that is almost indistinguishable from the real thing.
Blade HQ doesn't sell clones
are you sure they are not chinese knockoffs?
+thebusinessend1 Yes, I am certain they were not knock-offs. They were sent in and serviced by Zero Tolerance, which they would not do if they were not genuine ZT products. Check out part 2 of this and you'll get more information on what ZT was able to do to resolve these issues. Thanks for watching!
+Custom Edge Works Thats good to hear. Getting some bogus knives instead of the real thing is no fun I would bet. Odd that you had such issues with it. I just ordered a ZT hoping the quality is up to par. If so I may order another tomorrow. Went with a 560 and I think Ill grab a 566 and a 450
+thebusinessend1 and nice vid btw.I gave you a thumbs up
+thebusinessend1 Thanks for that!
"Those who know carry Spyderco"
This is one of the reasons I'm not as fond of framelocks as everyone else seems to be. Actually I sometimes argue that framelocks, especially made in titanium, are inferior to many other locks. To many details that's need to be perfect in order to work properly. Even well established makers gets it wrong...did anyone say Strider? :-)
+MrAliaspostmortem I couldn't agree with you more.
26 minites on a bummer lock bar.
GIVE ME A BREAK.
Depressing nonsense.💥👎
I will never buy a zt knife especially after what they did with the 0454. You can get a much better knife for the same price from a different maker.
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