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Love the vid. In 25 min in and About 25:35 - Thats because she had le silly school experience for last 100 years xD Shes literally a 100 year old lady now mentally. She wants something more high class. It actually makes sense😂
Another question.. 36:00 is Satoko actually an incest child? (And so is satoshi?) I mean her mom seems like the type of a uhh...person... and so does her uncle/dad
1:05:20 - I agree. Its a shame we didnt get at least an episode of Satoko going through major loops and emotionally facing these things to see her become more wicked. Instead its left tl interpertation. While its true that its the intended thing to happen. Its just a shame its not expanded on in actual animation/show
1:07:00 - Actually you know what would be GREAT. If they made her see ONLY her pwrspective through these 100 year loops. Like satoko never gets to learn stuff that not once is revealed to her first peraon perspective in those loops... It would obscure important stuff and make future revelations to het more impactful.
What makes me the most mad about gousotsu is that the premise of Satoko being left behind by her friends due to the passing of time and her futile efforts to keep those relationships in stasis is an absolute gold mine for amazing emotional, bittersweet story telling. Like imagine a story told from her perspective, as her friends began to move and separate away, she tries to prevent it in multiple ways, but fails. So she gets even more desperate and hopeless, then she discovers the fragments and looping power, and tries methods (that aren't murder), but are manipulative in nature somewhat. This continues until it at the end, she confronts her friends about it, and the final stretch of the story is Satoko and her friends coming to terms with the passing of time, growing distance. This is a barebones example of, but it all points to the fact that this great idea was wasted in such a ridiculous manner, its just frustrating tbh
I mean if you take her experience first and how he messes up and gets ditant and the horror of that. And inner monologue would he hartbreaking. Just ti then how how it leads to terrible consequences leading to her codepndency just getting more messed up. Her breaking bit by bit and loosing her grasp.And failing , and failing and reinfocing that loop of. It really could be an amaing and relatable story mentaly wise. Why wasnt that framed from satokos inner narrator voice, that could hav solved a lot. Or just how she has relatabl goals and making things the same worse for herelff byisolating herself. Like that relatability makes me sad, in a good way. And that she is set up to fail. Is alo making hr more likable. The manga story sounds like okabes breakdown in steins gate, th failures to save th person she loves breaking her.
I have one word for you: Shion. If they didn't delete Shion from Gousotsu, we might have had an actual plot (or no plot at all, because, really, there was no point to them making Satoko and Rika go to Santa Lucia in the first place)
At least have her getting bullied at Lucia and baring it for Rika's sake without Rika's knowledge. It would keep the message of talking with your friends and trusting them. There were lots of scenarios they could of gone with, homework sucks, but not enough to do what she did.
What bothered me the most about this sequel is how worthless the other club members are in the bigger picture. It made Gou and Sotsu feel much more hollow than it already was. It’s like the creators of this show think the only good parts about Higurashi was the extreme gore and ridiculous faces. I feel like the people who created Star Trek Picard and Ghostbusters Afterlife worked on this show or something. People hated Higurashi Kira, but that 4th episode was more emotionally poignant than the entirety of this sequel for me and the only “sequel” I ever needed was Saikoroshi. Also I agree with Dream Syndrome being a great ED, but nothing with will ever beat Taishou a for me. Thanks for these 6 hours, I admittedly avoided R07 works for a while because of this sequel and this video was so good it made me want to sit down and reread Higurashi.
I'm halfway through and I completely agree, "This isn't Higurashi" was straight up what I said while watching it. What makes me angry is that Gou and Sotsu might be a person's first experience with Higurashi, and It's just not right.
Truthfully this was my first exposure to the series but the second episode actually made me go back and pick up the original Anime. After watching it I ended up grabbing the Sound Novels and now I'm at the point where you and Bess are at. Gou and Sotsu are not great adaptations of the Higurashi universe. It feels like Higurashi directed by a spatter flick director like Rob Zombie which while I like movies like the Devil's Rejects and his Halloween remake, I like them for different reasons than Higurashi.
this was sadly my first experience too. I was really excited watchin week by week until sotsu... really disappointed me lol. I have plans to watch the og since I don't have a of time or energy to look at the vn right now
I'm so glad you decided to write this essay and put the disconnected "Something is up with this retelling" feeling and gradual "this isn't my higurashi canon" feeling as gou and sotsu went on into such eloquent words. The ideas weren't the issue, the execution was.
@@circle3565 Everything felt forced in the anime. Not only the ending was shit as you said, but the actions of the characters also came out of nowhere. As Bess pointed out, Rina for example felt like an entirely different person from her original counterpart (because she was a gold digger and gave no shits about Rena's situation, going so far as to trying to kill her just to steal her father's money; here, she becomes an "empath" out of nowhere, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't shown that she remembered previous fragments as Teppei did). As for Satoko, her "descent" into madness was handled in probably the most unnatural and comical way possible; it's funny how Passione had a character which was heavily abused before, and instead of focusing on her mental health issues and her codependant relationship with Rika, they just showed it in the most "Joker" way possible: "I hAte StuDyIng HencE whY I trAppEd yOu In ThE lOopS" (which one can argue is not the main reason, but that's what the anime tried to put in the front. Everything else is just a weak attempt at trying to make her more deep than she was shown to be). Anyway yeah, the "looping" part is mostly used as a plot device in the series. I'm starting to think Ryukishi just brings it up whenever it's convinent, because Hanyuu at one point in the VN questioned herself if she should've just let Rika die the first time because her soul is "nearly gone" by the time we reach Kai's worlds, and Rika herself goes into a moral dilemma at times over it (as seen in Rei when she freaks out about having possibly killed her mother just to go back to her original world). But here? Satoko treats them as if they aren't real to begin with (she more or less said: "after all, the world I choose is the one that exists in the end. Everything else is like a dream"), AND she gets no sort of "karma" for screwing them over.
@@loren5432 That's why the Manga is better at the moment. And I also think the only point of this continuation is to form a 100% proof that Satoko is connected to Lambdadelta.
They couldn't find satoko so they hired Lambadelta and slapped her in cosplay but she strayed from the plot and all of Sotsu was just a pipe dream. Please wake up, I am your wife and you've been in a coma since 2012.
I’m in the Mion section, and you’re very correct. It’s crazy how Mion, who is the most stable character, ends up being a way more sadistic torturer than Shion. You’re very correct.
They broke the whole point of her character. She was meant like the only one who is strong enough to always be herself. And only her sis who's way more emotional could get sick and do meakashi-hen,not her. It's so sad they ruined even Mion..
A breathtaking effort, and a truly cathartic experience - for both the highs, and the lowest of lows. The truth of the future often overwrites that of the past, when everyone agrees upon it, but as you've deftly pointed out - so many different truths exist for this series, so many wonderful perspectives that while I may not enjoy all of them, is such a blessing in its own right. Because I dared to care enough about this story to concern myself with them in the first place. Higurashi has, and will continue to be instrumentally important to my life, and despite my hang-ups with these shows, it has only further proven why that is the case, and you explained perfectly why that is. Rest well, you've earned the victory lap several times over. And be proud of the work you've done, because presumptuous as it may sound to say, I think it's some of the best out there. Thank you.
Okay I knew this was gonna be a lengthy video judging by how long it's been in the works but six hours? I can't imagine all the effort that's been put into this, thank you for the amazing content and also for keeping GouSotsu alive almost singlehandedly 😭
Regardless of how I feel about this series, I am thankful to it for giving us the God's Syndrome ending. I love seeing basically every Higurashi fan agreeing that it is the perfect ending for Higurashi, from the song itself, the lyrics, and the visuals. But as for the series, I wrote out two long paragraphs but ultimately, my feelings can just be summed up with: disappointed. You said everything I'd want to say. While the adaptions of the original story in the question arcs gave the impression that this series was being handled by people that knew and understood it, as it progressed, it felt more and more like it... wasn't. Like the people in charge just... didn't understand Higurashi. I noticed it from the second arc; it immediately stood out to me as wrong that all of the circumstances with the doll, Mion, and Shion would occur the exact same way given the major change in Keiichi giving Mion the doll. As it went on, it just kept getting worse. The careful mystery elements of the original series seemed lost, replaced instead with scenes for shock value. Motifs and themes of mental illness seemed thrown out (such as Satoko suddenly cured from a disease that was always seen as an analogy for mental illness). Characterization was lost and opportunities wasted. It was such an interesting story with so much potential, but it all felt fumbled. Mion having an arc but getting nothing from it, Satoko becoming a villain with no personality or any of her wonderful characterization, the amount of graphic, needless violence, the lack of an actual mystery, I could go on. Higurashi is often misunderstood by a lot of casual viewers of the original anime, and it kind of feels like Gou/Sotsu was made based on those misunderstandings rather than a clear knowledge of the original story and all of its important themes, messages, and moments.
personally I think if you want a VN experience you read a VN. An anime by nature of the medium will always be a watered down form of the VN source material. I liked Gou and Sotsu I think people were just expecting something different from it and when they didn't get what they wanted they got strangely bitter. It an anime for a frickin 50 year old Visual Novel on the Dendy continuing where the games left off. I'll put it this way the mainline games were best of the best and really the core experience of Higurashi. Anything that splinters off from the original will never be the original and sometimes that means Higurishi When They Plinko. Gou and Sotsu rocked and it was just nice to be back home for 2 seasons of great anime.
@@sparklesparklesparkle6318 I never brought up the VN though. I think that, even if they aren't perfect, the adaptions of the original story in the 2006 anime and the manga still do a good job of portraying the core of Higurashi and its most important themes and messages. That shows that Higurashi doesn't need to be a VN in order to be great. Obviously yes, a 100 hour long VN is going to be able to deliver a lot more than a 25 hour anime series, but there was still a lot more that Gou/Sotsu could have done with its time, which you can see in the changes made to the (better) manga adaption. Instead, it feels like it wasted a lot of time on gratuitous gore and recapping/repeating scenes from the original series or the question arcs. The only expectations I had going into it were, I expected it to keep the core themes, values, and mystery elements from the original series. I wasn't expecting the same depth that a whole VN could give, but I wanted at least that, and I think that's fair considering it's a sequel to that series. Of course anyone going into it will have the original series on their mind. Whatever the story was, that's all I wanted, but it just didn't deliver.
You're definitely missing the mark on a lot of this. The story elements with Mi/Shi being similar despite Keiichi making the proper decision with the doll is nothing new, there are thousands and thousands of fragments and we only see a few dozen of them throughout the entire series it's a given that there will be those that are very similar but still have differences. Also, this is a very obvious change because in Sotsu we learn that Satoko is giving people lethal injections and making them crazy which explains this away easily. Gou was completely full of mystery; we finally see the characters get their good ending but then strangely Rika is back in the fragment loop again with all the chaos and well paced new story unfolding. I mean c'mon it's hard to have a deeper mystery than the original when by this point the viewer should already have an in depth understanding of the world and how it works lol. As for Sotsu it's the answer arc so of course there isn't any mystery. Towards the end of the original we learned that the widespread mental illness was Hinamizawa Syndrome and Dr. Irie had finally found a way to cure the villagers (with Satoko actually being the on screen plot vehicle for Irie to explain it to us). Mion's arc was essentially fake and manufactured by Satoko giving her the needle and I feel like it was meant to be thought provoking because Mion was the only main cast member (aside from Rika obviously) who had never been affected by the crazy syndrome up until this point in the story. But on some level I agree that it was hollow because Satoko just guns her down in the end. Satoko has plenty of personality as the villain. She wanted a redo on the events leading up to going to her private school so things could go back to how they were and when Eua gives that to her she slowly descends into madness due to the unconfirmed number of years she spent playing around in fragments. It's even possible she spent longer in there than Rika (100 years) because she took the time to at least gloss over all of Rika's failed attempts in addition to all the time she spent on her own attempts. The amount of time she spent bathed in blood would fracture anyone's mind and by extension it separated the pure hearted Satoko from the witch Satoko. Her motives were always clear, be with Rika forever, but sadly she became more jaded and twisted over time. I'm genuinely surprised that while encompassing all of your primary issues with the story you didn't have anything to say about the Sotsu finale. By properly absorbing all the information there's so much that can be understood and appreciated on deeper levels but that Shounen style super fight at the end just wasn't it lol it was totally out of the blue and didn't fit whatsoever. The chicken fight with Rika and Satoko passing through many fragments before it got weird was pretty cool though, I liked that part.
@@Tenshiyo In regards to the finale, Bess describes my feelings quite well. It's a splatter-fest that reduces the core themes and values of the original series to a bloody spectacle in which neither of them learn anything and many of their character arcs from the original series are undone. Everything Bess says is exactly how I feel, so I'd just watch the section on Kagurashi to get the gist. The Mion/Shion elements being exactly the same despite Keiichi giving Mion the doll is, in my opinion, very unlikely. We see in the original series how relieved Rika is when Keiichi gives Mion the doll, because it means the events of Watanagashi are avoided. That gives a sense of stability with this factor, that the doll is a catalyst for their behaviors. If Mion gets the doll, she won't cry to Rena and Shion about Keiichi not seeing her as a girl and not giving it to her; she won't feel regret at having not been more "girly" from the beginning; she won't get advice from Shion to act more girly. So, why does she still pretend to be Shion to get away with acting more feminine? If Keiichi gives her the doll, she won't talk to Shion about him in the same way; Shion won't get the same kind of jealousy; so, why does she still treat Keiichi and Mion exactly the same? The pieces just don't line up for their behaviors. Maybe it can be similar, but it doesn't make sense for it to happen the *exact* same way. Not to mention, this series gave them an opportunity to show us new stories. How cool would it have been to have a focus on Mion and Keiichi's relationship with the change of her giving him the doll? Or how would Shion's feelings differ? How would Keiichi and Shion meet if not through her pretending to be Mion out of jealousy? Etc. etc. The issue with Gou's mystery is that they reveal too much in the second episode. As soon as it's revealed that this is a sequel, we already know to expect something different. But, there is still the mystery of who is making Rika loop again and why (though, it should be pointed out that many fans deduced it was Satoko very early on, so it wasn't a very difficult mystery to solve). The issue then is that the mystery is solved by the end of Gou: we know Satoko is behind it, we know her feelings, and we know how she's doing it. From that, the answer arcs of Sotsu feel kind of pointless because they aren't actually answering anything. So, they would have been worth it if they could have gone deeper into the characters at the very least but, again, they didn't. It's especially apparent with Mion, but this is the case with all of the characters, tbh. And finally, I have to disagree about Satoko's personality. Satoko in the original goes through an amazing character arc, and a large part of it is thanks to her friends. As pointed out in this video, she says herself that she would have turned out like Takano had it not been for them. Yes, looping is going to affect her. The issue, though, is that we never get much from her beyond her watching gleefully as the people that were the most important in her life are murdered again and again and again. The same people she thanked for getting her to that point, she not only kills but does so happily. Even with how her mind has changed due to the looping, there's no nuance or depth. The most we get is when the "true" Satoko fights the "witch" Satoko, which was very anti-climactic. And in the end, all of the blame gets shifted over to Eua and Satoko reasserts that she was right to do everything she did in order to get Rika to apologize. Again, it's pointed out in this video, but what about her other friendships? She is closest with Rika, but the other club members are also very important to her but, again, she's willing to sacrifice them and do so with a tsundere-esque smile of enjoyment on her face. I'm not saying that she can't be the villain, I actually quite like it. But it would have been nice to see more depth to her feelings, guilt, regret, but ultimate choice to continue down the path she's embarked.
I really enjoyed all the OP’s and ED’s and still listen to them on occasion. I feel like excellent music and very flashy gore(which I will admit I am a fan of and Goutsu scratched that itch in me) we’re the only things worth caring about. The story and the way (most) characters were mishandled is a huge disappointment. The weird thing is, I didn’t even hate Goutsu while I was watching it. It was after it ended and I reflected on it for a few days. So many missed opportunities.
"Satoko is a princess type character that always in need to be saved" I feel the whole GouSotsu Satoko 60% won't be happen if those edgy higurashi "fans" didn't hate her too much for being a realistic 10 years old child and not a psycho like Rena or Shion. That statement by Ryukishi alone is how higurashi fanbase view her, an annoying brat and not as a girl who learns how to getting more less dependent and learn to defends herself. Seriously, back then a lot people were rooting for Shion torturing Satoko because they hate her that much and Rika chair thing too. Satoko really deserved better, heck i don't even know Umineko that much yet Lambdadelta deserves a good backround too... Bernkastel and Rika's connection is brilliant, then why Satoko and Lambda is not?
I really hate the "Satoko = damsel in distress" narrative because. That's. Straight up not true. She is the one who saves herself from her uncle's abuse in Minagoroshi - the entire message being that it's her OWN choice to make. I never really saw her lacking agency - _she was just 10 years old!!_ what was she even supposed to do??
I wanted to address your statement that Rika's motivation for specifically attending st. Lucia was unaddressed. It's funny because I too, could not find a great explanation until I heard you mention "Rika" and "maturing" in the same sentence. St. Lucia is a perfect academy for Rika in the sense that it will help propel her into adulthood faster than most other schools. Of course there are other prestigious schools around, but Rika has a very limited scope on what's outside of Hinamizawa, so it was only natural for her to first think of St. Lucia. On top of this, just seeing a friend go to a specific school immediately puts it above the rest that are of similar caliber. This is especially true considering Shion does have a sense of maturity and adulthood which adds merit to St. Lucia as a whole as well. It's a very basic explanation, but one that makes enough sense for me not to put Rika's specific choice into question.
Or you know... The fact that Rika's mentally an old lady at this point, so she wants to go to a prestigious, high-class school that will truly challenge her; full of people that have matured beyond their typical age group. Bess may be good at digging up old Higurashi elements, but she's seemingly disinterested in grasping the story's subtext sometimes. In that sense, she rejects change the same way Satoko does.
@@WackaMei sorry lol I know this is like a whole year later but this is such a baffling comment I couldn't keep my trap shut. Rika is by no means 'mentally an old lady' just because of the loops. A century of the same set of experiences bookended by trauma and arrested development does not suddenly make one an adult. Not only that but Saikoroshi explicitly points out that part of Rika's journey towards healing involves stepping back into her life as the ten year old Rika and finding joy in that life again, living and finally growing and maturing as a result. Even if 'Rika is an old lady, therefore etc etc' *was* the story's POV though, that still doesn't take away from Bess's point that this aspect of Rika's motivations is so poorly explained to the audience as to be completely absent from the text. This would be bad enough given that it's her primary motivation across Satokowashi's flashback arcs but this is also supposedly a 'newcomer friendly' Higurashi anime and thus, the story is written in at least some capacity for an audience who doesn't have the prior knowledge to fill in this aspect of Rika's character for themselves.
@@phaineinTV Hi henlo. Rika, in both the VN and the animated works has her outer persona and her inner self. Her inner self is the nihilistic, wine-chugging disinterested sounding girl who's seen her friends die over and over and over and over. It's true that she decides to give living as a 10 year old another chance, but what Ryukishi shows us in GouSotsu is that life isn't really that simple. With Mion and Shion studying elsewhere and life in Hinamizawa being like a loop in of itself, Rika wants to try using the knowledge and experience she gained these 100 years in a more mature setting, alongside Satoko. However, while Satoko wanted to be with Rika for emotional security, Rika wanted Satoko to come simply because she associated life enjoyment with Satoko's presence - something that kept her going, back in Hinamizawa. To claim Rika doesn't mentally grow at all during these 100 years is ludicrous. It's evident in the text itself, where the prime visual and direct indicator of a development of taste/mentality comes through whenever she enjoys a cup of wine. A child's tastebuds are not accustomed to alcohol, and like with olives they usually reject it as sour and disgusting. But with time, Rika has grown to like alcohol. Same goes with mentality: at one point, she believed in miracles. She tried her hardest but eventually just gave up. Even accepted brutal deaths over and over without as much as flinching. How can a 'child in arrested development' do that? They can't. The only thing that roused her from her stupor and disinterested state was Keiichi's surprise appearance. His presence gave her hope again, and managed to change her mentality once more. But even in the end of the end, that inner, haunted voice remains. Rika is still the character who's set to (in some way) become Bernkastel. That can't ever be omitted from the story of Higurashi, and thus this tale bridges that gap. GouSotsu is not a newcomer-friendly anime. Sure, the basic story is one that theoretically can be sleuthed out by a new viewer, but it's written primarily for those who are already invested in the franchise. That's why most of the 'mysteries' in Sotsu are reversals or bolstered by red herrings: we presumed the killings would be reasoned the same way as they once were, but in reality something else was afloat. I appreciate your response, but sadly I don't think you've taken enough of the story's context or subtext into account to properly demean the show. I respectfully agree to disagree on your conclusion.
Okok there it is. One of the hardest parts in healing from trauma, is having to accept that your abusers arent sometimes sweet angels and sometimes evil monsters, but just one single person capable of both. A person that can love you deeply and still hurt you as deep. I think higurashi is masterful in conveying this concept and how hard it is to accept and understand. Thats why having satoko and witchoko be two separate entities sucks so much. Maybe the person who has written it like that doesn't have much first hand experience with the concept, or is still struggling with it, and instead chose to go down the mental-illness-quirky road. Bluh!
It kind of felt like a true internal struggle between what remained of Satokos better nature and her corrupted self -with the different personalities being metaphorical
4:23:00 THIS! It really bothered me! They kept reminding Satoko (and us, the viewers) that if Satoko messes up and dies before Rika, then she will end up in a world without her. So then seeing the world where Keiichi goes super violent in Angel Mort right before the world where Satoko seems absolutely desperate and crying as she tortures Rika - I was SURE that this was the sign for set up and pay off! Like Satoko finally messed up because she was too arrogant, she suffered through so many Rika-less worlds (which was probably really entertaining for Eua to see) and now that she finally sees Rika again, she's desperate to make that world hell for her so she will give up. I felt that that made a lot of sense. And I shared my theories with my husband every week while it was airing. But that set up never went anywhere 😶 my disappointed was (and still is) immeasurable.
This describes my feelings for Sotsugou as a whole. All style with little to no substance. This series made me hate Satoko more than any character in fiction given the way they wrote her.
@@coopigeon619 Same. If the writers' intention was to make Satoko sympathetic, they thoroughly failed. I know, i know "without love it can't be seen" and shit like that, but I genuinely hoped some fucked up consequence would bite her in the ass the more I watched GouSotsu with the way she's written.
Man, the way this was handled was just...not good. I always liked Satoko's character and despite a lot of fans really disliking her (mostly because she - well, acted like an actual child would be expected to act in many situations), I really enjoyed her arcs in the first anime and the visual novels. Makes me sad to see her character go so incredibly far downhill in Gou and Sotsu. The thing that gets to me the most is how absolutely callous Satoko is toward torturing and killing her friends and seeing the countless loops Rika suffered through. It just does not make sense to me for Satoko to suddenly not care about her friends in a genuine manner and suddenly become the walking epitomr of a stereotypical Yandere. There's no way that what she went through at St Lucia two times was enough to make her discard anything but obssession. Not enough to where she'd not care about Rika going through a CENTURY of suffering. I do think I will give Meguri a shot though as what you shared with us here makes it clear they handled this SO much better. The torment Eua puts Satoko through in so many worlds works so much better as it makes Satoko break down slowly and destroys her emotionally, slowly causing her to go insane which explains her single-minded obssession and callousness toward everyone dying so much more reasonable.
The way that I saw it, it was like Satoko was watching television. The actors LOOK like your friends, but you are completely removed from their suffering. Even the impact of events changed within the “episodes” will just get negated by the next one. So why should she care? Why should she care about the “character” Rika going through death after death? Of course, this was me huffing heavy ass doses of copium, but it was the only justification that I could come up with that allowed me to watch the series all the way through.
@@TheBeastBandit Even if you use that justification, there's still the fact that she sees the very real effect on Rika when she legitimately considers and even attempts suicide via the weapon Hanyuu shows her. She knows it's real, she just doesn't care. Sure, she tries to take and hide the weapon, but doesn't even stop to think "oh my god, I'm killing her." Like Jesus, some Yanderes care more about their victims than Satoko seems to care about Rika. Then, there's the fact that she kills her friends herself. It's a much more real and horrific experience to kill someone with your own two hands than to watch it happen. That being said, maybe you could blame it on the whole Witch thing being an apparent split personality, I dunno. I got disgusted and quit watching the series when I realized how badly it butchers Satoko as a character, so I admittedly did not finish the show.
@@MokohiChan It's a little weird how it portrays it. It's implied that the Satoko we see doing all the bad shit is some kind of alternate personality that's manifested as a result of doing all these loops. She shuts away the old Satoko and just goes off to be an absolute menace. Only at the end does she basically say "Aight, I'll let you have your body back now" and bring the old Satoko back. It's implied that that whilst the Satoko doing this stuff is her, in a sense, it's also not her. It's this "Witch" identity which has manifested due to the loop power. It doesn't explain enough of it, but from what I can take from it, it fits with the story's theme and message of not being too attached to our own perspectives or identities, and that trying to create stable, consistent individual identities will only cause you to lose yourself in your own ego and delusions. That the "self" is a delusion.
@@slothrop9345Well, the problem there is that in what we are SHOWN, the Witch only takes over Satoko during the point where she kills Teppei. Yes, her actions become much MORE heinous after that point, but they had already been pretty deranged up to that point. So, that doesn't explain Satoko's 180 prior to the Witch taking over.
If Bess thinks I'm sitting through a 6 hour video.... she's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I bet I'm going to wish it was 8 hours when I'm finished. An analyst really giving themselves the time to get all their thoughts and feelings in order and to convey them in the best way possible is crucial for the healthiest art discussion. I know you had some trepidation about taking the long break to make this video, but I'm 100% certain it was worth it. You've earned your community's trust. Three cheers for this video!
the explanation of satoko's struggle in the meguri manga was really emotionally poignant, and the personal relation struck a bit of a chord with me too. not the exact situation, but the feelings satoko must have felt were well-envoked. i'm only an hour and 30 minutes in, but just like your other videos, this is a delight to watch
Those feelings are so relatable, honestly. That feeling of trying so hard and still feeling apart from others, alone. You can just feel the emotion in those panels
I hadn't been keeping up with Meguri because I had been so burned by GouSotsu but just the fact that Shion is there and gets to comment on St Lucia has sold me on it. It's such a small sticking point but the animes refusal to let Shion comment on their choice of that school or even appear is what made me first give up on it. I could never believe that Shion would willingly let Rika and especially Satoko attend the school that traumatized her so much without warning them first
I'm really glad that you also talked about the manga version of Gou and Meguri as well. Both are really interesting and I feel like not enough people talk about them.
I return to this essay every few months, it's by far my favorite video essay and media analysis I've seen. It continues to inspire me in my own creative work and it moves me so much to be reminded of both the richness of Higurashi and your passion for it. Just letting ya know 👍
I love Meguri, it helps me get rid of the bad taste that Gou and sotsu leave behind. Regarding Mion going crazy, I don't see it as bad, because Mion, no matter how wonderful person she is, is still a human being with weaknesses that if they are exploited enough, they could break her, like everyone else. But here it is very forced, because it was literally forced by the syndrome serum. Higurashi Mei is a very exploited gatcha, although it has some good things. I want to rescue a story where Mion goes crazy. I believe that this can only happen in exceptional timelines, since Mion could only develop the disease under extreme and unlikely situations. In the story, Keiichi and Shion enter into the Saiguden, but they are caught. Mion is aware that the families are arguing and everyone expects some hard punishment, so Mion is very afraid for Kei-chan and Shion, the problems only get worse when Mion confronts her sister in an argument and She comes to the conclusion that all this disaster is her own fault. Because: -Mion hid Hinamizawa's dark side from Keiichi so as not to give him a bad impression, leaving him vulnerable to making a fatal mistake, exactly what happened. -Mion deep down knew that her sister still feared and deeply mistrusted the Sonozakis, but she did nothing to reassure her... now with the deaths of Tomitake and Takano it is too late, Shion even disowns Mion and is about to leave along the Meakashi-hen route. Seeing all this, Mion's mental health goes out the window. She is terrified for the lives of her sister and Keiichi's... but it doesn't matter, she *resolves* that she will protect them, *no matter what* And so we lost her... It's a perfectly believable story in my opinion, it's a shame it doesn't have a complete arc.
19:08 I really appreciate you going into this because I feel like the Gou/Sotsu animes made the fans feel like their unhealthy friendship was one sided and that it was just Satoko that's gone "full yandere" when the manga shows that Rika's just as emotionally dependent on Satoko.
When you spoke about your own school experiences and how you so badly wanted to fit in, I started to cry. I had the exact same issue, except it was when I went to graduate school. I ultimately had failed out after struggling with grades, my mental health, and the intense pressure of the work. I resonated with that so much. Thank you for sharing. This is a wonderful breakdown video.
You really were right about Gou and Sotsu being a community experience. I would talk with my friends on discord after every episode that came out and we’d analyze the scenes, give our theories, and wonder how the full thing would turn out. So often we ascribed more meaning than there really was, how this was actually a trick, we thought really hard lmao And during the agonizing episodes of Sotsu we talked about the messages of Higurashi as a whole, how it’s about communication and trust and forgiveness, and these episodes didn’t match any of those. You’re right, even with all the problems I had with the show, it still somehow elevated my love for the series
just wanted to say as I was watching - your discussion of how badly let down you felt by Mion in Wataakashi really resonated with me. I haven't gotten to your discussion of Tatariakashi yet but as someone who deeply empathized with and related to Satoko's experiences with abuse, I felt the same mixture of shock and betrayal as I watched that arc play out and had to drop Sotsu for several weeks because it so badly upset me. Hearing someone else express those same feelings and put them into words really validated those feelings and it was super cathartic to hear you say it in the words I've been struggling to find since Sotsu aired. This video is already fantastic (I'm only halfway through currently lol) but that part in particular really struck a chord with me and I just wanted to let you know how grateful I was for its inclusion.
I really liked this behemoth of a video. I particularly liked how you criticize gou/sotsu in good faith. Not only do you think about think about what the creators intended you also explain why you think it didn't work. You don't see that very often in media analysis. It really showed how much you cared for higurashi and how you felt gou/sotsu didn't get across the message that ryukishi07 intended for the series and that in spite of that it still have a right to exist. Keep making good shit
I think that part of what made the original Higurashi so great is that it had an underlying social message. And the characters were "normal" people in a lot of ways (until the end). The characters growth and development of their relationships within specific cultural/political eras (which necessarily mediate all human relations) is what made them come alive and feel real- it's why characters like Mion and Shion (my favorite character) are so extraordinary. But now with this sequel, the story and concepts have become so abstract that they are no longer rooted in any meaningful material/social context. It becomes a purely theoretical exploration of "idealized" forms of relationships between godlike beings, who are much more special than the rest of humanity. These characters don't feel real to me anymore (though it could very well be that I personally lack the specific past experiences/background to relate to them). Overall, I really think that human relationships cannot be explored so abstractly. For instance, Satoko and Rika's relationship in the initial St. Lucia segment (especially manga) seems so much more poignant than a lot of what came after. So I struggle to find significant meaning in this Higurashi sequel. There is emotion, to be sure. But is there socially useful meaning? It is art, yes. But is it helpful art in that it truly highlights or clarifies something about our own reality? I think it obscures more than it clarifies.
I think the above rant is just me venting really. I think really I'm just sad because the original Higurashi genuinely changed my life. and it's like, will this sequel actually be able to do that for anyone? It's upsetting tbh, and I'm not 100% why
Thank you so much for this, from the bottom of my heart. I've cried at your essays before, your insight into characters and the human emotions that we receive from them has moved me quite a few times, but this is the first time I've flat out sobbed. In the section near the end where you revisit your initial question and Ryukishi's own relationship to his work, I was really overcome with the beautiful points you made about art and relationships. In particular, your line about relationships being a decision to see what you could create together that you couldn't alone really resonated with me. I was never a fan of Gou or Sotsu from the start because I too was afraid of the idea that the "perfect" ending would be shattered, but now I similarly can appreciate Gou and Sotsu's existence for how much they've continued Higurashi's legacy and revitalized a community of fans who have so much love to share with this story and each other. It's because of Gou and Sotsu that I revisited Higurashi after nearly a decade, it's why I rewatched the anime and read the manga for the first time last year, and it's why I stumbled across your videos. This post mortem allowed me to see Gou and Sotsu in a new light and appreciate, maybe for the first time, the parts that were entirely successful and meaningful. It's been hard for me to acknowledge those pieces when I have such a negative impression of the show as a whole, but particularly your commentary on Nekodamashi and its exploration into Rika's perspective definitely made me reassess what I had missed the first go around. I always appreciate hearing about Saikoroshi and Yoigoshi from you as well, I've read the manga for both but your in depth and passionate commentary on what they say about the characters always delivers an incredibly strong impact, as though I was reading them again for the first time. This was an absolutely beautiful video, and incredibly cathartic to watch. Outside of that, your production quality is something I deeply appreciate, and for most of the video I was doing nothing but sitting and watching and listening with undivided attention. You clearly have so much love for this series and so much insight into the themes and emotions it expresses that your videos never have a dull moment. Everything you put out is powerful and I am so grateful that you share your work with us! I can't imagine what a massive undertaking this was, but it was well worth the wait and I hope it wasn't too strenuous to create. I'll definitely be revisiting this one in the future!
the most perplexing thing that it wasn't even rushed, the Gou anime was DELAYED for a year or so by the pandemic, i wonder what they did in those extra times
Well, fucking nothing because they couldn't do anything, Japan completely shut down during COVID. The production could've been screwed over by COVID for all we know.
I'm glad you can look back on the early days of Gou and the fandom interaction with fondness, I wish I could say the same. Sotsu was so rancid it damaged my love for a franchise that I thought was unshakable, Higurashi was one of the first anime I ever watched while knowing what anime was, and I can't even look at the other entries in the WTC series quite the same way anymore. And I had very high hopes. I loved Gou, and I defended Gou to it's detractors, even during the divisive Satokowashi arc. It and Nekodamashi were messy in some regards, but they were genuinely compelling and they seemed to me that they were setting up a genuinely nuanced conflict between Satoko and Rika, and that their supposedly important and dear friends would play a pivotal and meaningful role in the resolution of the story, and would not merely just serve as mere puppets in the villain's plan, and while the other damashi arcs on their own weren't *super* interesting, I had faith that we would get satisfying and interesting answers. Because no way would it just be Satoko doing essentially the exact same thing for 3 arcs in a row with no development or self-reflection at all (save for the human and witch split in Tatari but seeing as how that basically ceases to matter after it happens, I'm inclined to ignore that). No way would they actually just double down on her being a cartoonishly evil supervillain to the point where she literally says she has no regrets at the end of it all. That would be a spit in the face, surely. Hell, I can't even think about SatoRika as a ship anymore without giving myself a headache. What a joke. How do you make Villain Satoko boring?????? That takes a special level of fucking up. Meguri definitely seems like it'll improve on some of what the original failed in, but to what degree, I'm not sure. It's still got it's issues, but at least it's competent?
Here are list of Satoko's crimes: Gaslighting Rika Injecting Rena Illegally buying Firearms Shooting Mion and ROLLING AROUND IN THE MUD You're honor, I rest my case
My thing about Gou and Sotsu is that as good as some ideas were, the set up with Mion protecting Keiichi as her paranoia for something, the flip flop for Satoko trusting Teppei's change, Rika discovering Satoko as a looper, I think it ruined the character of Satoko for me. I went from watching the original to Gou and Sotsu to rewatching the original again with a friend to introduce them to the series and I found with great distaste what Satoko would become. I think it really bitterly ruined her characterizations, especially when in Kai, as Rika is hesitant to tell her friends, we have a version of Satoko that is picking up vague pieces to keep Rika safe, setting up traps, calling anonymous tips to Ooishi to keep Rika safe and in the end, Satoko mourns as she finds her plan has failed and Rika is, unfortunately, sacrificed. I found myself seeing that Satoko, and then seeing the one in Gou and Sotsu just as complete opposites. If Satoko looped, she would've seen how she was in each of her fragments and how that version of herself in particular was. Satoko was smart, cunning and playful, she loved Rika and yes, there could be a toxic element if you want to elaborate on it but she also knew she wanted Rika safe and happy, no matter what. Every time she found Rika dead, she freaked out and tried to keep herself safe on top of it, to stay brave, even when her friend was gone. (I.e. Shion torturing her, mistaking Keiichi as the killer when he was saving her from Teppei) I just. I don't think she would ever find joy in killing Rika, in seeing her suffer. And the thing about Gou and Sotsu is that they really tend to ruin the Satoko I knew and had affection for. They chose to just make her this person who was willing to sacrifice everything and everyone for the sake of what? Satoko was never truly fleshed out for that to be her dream, to stay in Hinamzawa, and I guess you could say it's the most logical due to Satoshi coming back, I would also argue that she also has accepted that he won't and is willing to move on, much like grief does with a loved on. You have episodes of it, wishing they were here, wanting them to see how you've grown, seeking their advice or something but then you gradually move from that, focusing on the people you really have, like your friends and other loved ones you're surrounded by. And it's why I just don't think I understand. I never saw Satoko staying in Hinamzawa her whole life, nor did I Rika but I also didn't think I knew where they go either after the events wrapped up in Kai and Rei. It was just them with everyone together, whether they move on, they still have one another. They still have the family unit, no matter what happens. And I thought that was the point, the "happy ending" that just moves forward as Rika is able to live her life, no matter the direction, with her friends to the very end. Perhaps it's because it's in Rika's perspective, it's selfish but with how each character had their arc, their firm beliefs that they would never abandon their friends, no matter what bad they did or tragically their life went down, it just seemed weird that Satoko would just. Abandon that. Whenever I see the Sotsu theme song, the eyes of the friends shadowed and grinning, helping Satoko up, I always thought it was foreshadowing of like. Maybe they'll catch on to what Satoko is doing to them, maybe she's tormented of using them, find some sort of thing to keep Satoko away from Rika but instead, they were just puppets. And it makes me sad to see such potential be wasted, to reimagine one character, like Rina for example, but then completely ruin another, like Mion or Satoko. This video really highlights a lot of that, and I really appreciate it. I hope my comment isn't too long, it feels like an add on to what Bess is trying to convey but there was so much for Sotsu and Gou, and they lost it the moment they forgot what Higurashi was, and decided that Satoko was the one to try and kill it for good.
Execution is such a vital thing when telling a story. An authors intent can be lost if it’s execution is handled poorly. Because of how Satoko’s breakdown was portrayed it was incredibly difficult to sympathize with her. Even as long time fan I was struggling so much that I couldn’t watch sotsu anymore. It was if I was watching any other anime villain or antagonist and not a Higurashi one. Clearly the intention was lost in the anime. And hearing about how the manga did it justice is bittersweet. I’m an hour and a half in and I’m planning on sticking till the end.
That part where Ryukishi was talking about tsumihoroboshi hit so fucking hard, i hope he learns from gousotsu's criticisms but also understands how much the community loves his work
Sotsu left a really bad taste for me, enough to lessen my attachment to the series and reconsider how much I liked it in the first place (despite being a die-hard fan for over a decade). I'm only an hour and forty minutes into your video, but this analysis of why Sotsu fell so short, and how in-line with the original series Meguri is makes me want to dive back in. To this day I don't know of another franchise that can make the reader empathize with its characters on the level that When They Cry does.
I'm at the 3:00:00 ish mark of the video, and I can say I wholeheartedly agree. one of the things that drew me to higurashi and umineko (with umineko for me being one of the top stories I have ever read) is the way it doesn't shy away from trauma, but also how it treats it so very respectfully, even when the character in question is objectively committing awful acts. so, I was really excited for an exploration of satoko's trauma. however, seeing the way it was announced I was...cautious. I didn't watch it, and instead kept an eye out on the fandom, looking for signs. it was about this point I decided I was not going to watch it. I haven't, and I'm glad to watch this 6 hour explanation of why my gut feeling was right XD
I’m just happy that this series is finally getting proper analysis. You do a phenomenal job, Bess. Honestly, I felt most engaged when you talked about your experiences and understanding of the story (which you did amazing at by the way). This is really, possibly the top-tier analysis of the entire Higurashi series itself, not just Gou and Sotsu. Every talking point was expanded on, and I enjoyed this more than actually watching Gou and Sotsu, because you reminded me of exactly why I LOVED the series itself. It’s fantastic, and it makes me want to start it all over again. Thank you so much for your hard work! With this, and all your other videos, you’re giving the series the passionate analysis and celebration that it deserves!
Bess!! You are a lifesaver!! You released this on the morning I'm due to fly from New Zealand to Germany, a journey of about 30 hours in total, and I have been looking forward to this video for MONTHS now. I literally love you.
love how satoko gradually ceased to be a character in sotsu and was just an evil caricature until she decided to stop being evil not because she realized the error of her ways or because she recognized the unhealthy parts of her behavior, but because she ultimately got the validation from rika that she wanted no one learned anything and nothing changed storytelling! also a big fan of the show pretending saikoroshi didn't happen (not really!) just because there's a lot that doesn't make sense if that arc actually happened in this continuity great video tho! you really did rip this show to shreds. good thing you were doing this and not me, i would've maybe gotten a little harsher than necessary lol
Hanyuu in Saikoroshi: "I should have never saved your life Rika, It was bad for your humanity. Thanks for learning that lesson. I will never rewind time for you again, so take care of your precious life. Bye forever." Hanyuu in Gou/Sotsu: "So I started looping"
I absolutely adore this video to bits. This is my third watch through since it came out. The way you lovingly tear into the series and put it back together with so much care and understanding is something truly admirable and a delight to sit through.
I didn't know about Ryukishi's opinion on how the show turned out to be, but now that you've mentioned it, I think he is a very strong creator. He seems to be the sort of flexible, empathic and sensible person. By allowing the company Passion to make their own version of the story, he let "his" characters develop in new ways. I think this is an example of a healthy relationship, with the fans, with the company and ultimately with the characters. As for the future of the "When they cry", I can't wait to see what will come next. I am sure that Satoko will go through her atonement journey. That will certainly be interesting.
All the talk about relationships and just the meaning of healthy relationships really hit hard for me throughout the course of this video and honestly got me pretty emotional at times applying it to things I'm currently dealing with regarding those. I loved this video because of that, and having only seen the original anime along with gou and sotsu, this made me go ahead and grab all the visual novels on steam, so I'm excited to get to them soon.
Just now reaching the end and this video is so great. I continued to think that the main problem of Satokowashi-hen and Sotsu is how they define "answer-arc" as just a mean of "yeah, she injected this and that's why this arc happened" but it's more than that. How unsatisfying solving the mystery feels aside, the injection is an active object that directly kills the characters personality from the previous series, and as such, just becomes walking plot-devices to advance the story (meaning, Rika's suffering). Also, gotta mention how... "cheap" the show feels in it's horror. I have only watched both Deen seasons of Higurashi but they never reached the cheapness of "red filter", the horror was more atmospheric and when they went for it, they did get us (ignoring how horrible it looked visually). Passione's way of horror doesn't feel as close and as such, barely leaves an impression, and that's also including how downright STUPID many of the death scenes looked. It felt like a literal bloodbath every second or so. When we reached the end of Sotsu, i only felt like i liked it but it was because Rika and Satoko were punching each other, not really what i call a proper conclusion. I have this feeling that the fight never gets to me emotionally because i just feel it's an award for watching a show that just continued to put the same scenes we seen in Gou but without any kind of interesting thing to look at, as if they thought you wouldn't be able to remember anything at all. Thanks to this video i also became aware of the Gou and Meguri manga, which seems so much more better than what the anime had offered. Bringing so much more interesting changes and actually making it more compelling as a whole. Still fairly cautious because of how bad Sotsu dissapointed me, but i hope it becomes a greater and better way to experience this totally new story that isn't a sequel at all. As a whole, even if i still have yet to play the VN, Higurashi is an experience that i loved. A great mystery with great characters which i felt satisfied by the end of it, this video made me want to revisit again sometime soon and immerse myself in the world of Hinamizawa once again. Fantastic video, you are awesome 👍
Regardless of the writing, regardless of the senseless gore, I do have to thank Gousotsu for existing. When Higurashi gou was first announced I thought ‘ oh cool that anime I kinda liked is getting a new anime’ because at the time Higurashi only sat at around my 25th favourite anime. I enjoyed its story but I was never obsessed over it. But when that twist in episode two happened i started to become more and more engaged. The new episodes were starting to become the highlight of my week. My love for the series grew so much that I even joined the Higurashi subreddit because I wanted to join the fandom. This is when it hit me that Higurashi was my favourite anime/vn of all time. It’s the only series that could convince me to go back and read a 100 hour visual novel to learn so much more about these characters I’d come to love. It’s the only series where I could watch this six hour essay and not be bored for a single moment, well I’d probably also watch a very long essay on a certain story about seagulls crying. Speaking of seagulls, it was the gou anime that led me to Umineko. I read through all 150 hours of that story with the beginning motive of seeing this berkastel character I’d heard about. But I ended up finding my favourite fictional story of all time. Umineko has changed my whole viewpoint on life, which is probably a little dramatic but it’s genuinely influenced me that much. If gou had never come out I highly doubt I would have ever read it. So in the end it gousotsu indirectly changed my life, even if it is an essentially torture porn story with a few good moments.
One of the things that I straight up LOVE about Gou/Sotsu is how they invite discussion of Ryukishi07's body of work as a whole and how it examines Ryukishi07's relationship both with the community surrounding his work and his relationship with his work in itself. It felt like a work of meta fiction in a way I thoroughly enjoyed.
i was 3 episodes in when I joked that this felt like a rob zombie reboot of higurashi. crazy how I still feel that way after finishing it... all the thoughtfulness of the original replaced with more gore and ridiculousness
I cannot express how thankful I am for this video for how much it helped me recover from how much the Gou/Sotsu anime made me forget how the original made me feel and why it holds a special place in my heart 😊 Aside from the ones you mentioned in the video, I also want to list down the things I wished they handled differently: 1) The club's involvement (and takano) The club remembering Satoko's actions from previous fragments could've been amazing because it will show Satoko how wrong she is for assuming that those fragments where she made them suffer don't matter to her. Imagine if during the classroom scene, Mion and Rena's memories were triggered when Satoko pulled out her gun. If they stopped her, and it could played out like Tsumihoroboshi where all the club members would use their skills to protect Rika while also saving Satoko, the same way they saved Rena. As for Takano, it wouldve been a better redemption arc if she actually joined alongside the club rather than just being redeemed for the sake of being a red herring to who's the actual villain. It is really sad to see them reduced to mere pieces of Satoko and Rikas gameboard, when the original was about how every player mattered in achieving their ideal world where no one has to lose. I even had a theory where when Witch Satoko killed the real one, the latter didn't actually die. Rather, the real Satoko was trapped by Eua in a fragment where Rika didn't exist and her life was miserable. After all, the condition was for Satoko to die before Rika. and in a way she did (or at least her true self). Maybe that could've led the club members to travel fragments to find that Satoko while fighting Eua and Witch Satoko. 2) Hanyuu and Eua's connection The way Hanyuu described herself as the "last remaining trace of Hanyuu" made me think that she's the last part of Hanyuu that remains after the original Hanyuu becomes Featherine again due to her horn healing. It would explain why she disappeared after using all her power to give Rika the ability to remember her death. Because that power required the strength of her true self (Featherine), as shown by the crack in her horn glowing. In order to use the power only she could accomplish with her old identity (Featherine), the last remnant of her identity as her weaker version (Hanyuu) couldn't sustain itself anymore. It would have been so emotionally impactful if what really happened was that before Hanyuu's horn fully healed, she wanted to leave a part of herself to protect Rika from the monster she will eventually return to being. They could've even done that as a parallel to Satoko fighting her own witch side. We could've seen how Rika would feel knowing her best friend and mother figure is now gone forever and the only remaining part of her is Eua. 3) Shion's relationship with Satoko I really loved what you suggested where they gave the redemption arc Teppei got to Shion instead. It would be interesting for them to explore how Satoko feels about how Shion used to feel about her and even address whether or not Shion's love of Satoko is only motivated by her feelings towards Satoshi. Maybe they could showed that their bond isn't as simple as that and that Shion really does care for her. They could've even explored questions like if Shion would still care for Satoko knowing Satoshi might not love her the same way when he does return, which can teach Satoko about the importance of having selfless love (especially Shion who used to be like her in terms of being obsessed). 4) The animation I really wished they replicated the animation style of Higurashi Outbreak (or even Kira) because it would've looked less cartoonish and it would be easier for it to feel like an actual sequel. Despite my complaints, I do have hope that Meguri will be able to satisfy these or at least offer a suitable alternative. Anyways, I enjoyed your video and I can't wait for your review of Meguri in the future ❤️
Im back. took me three separate sittings to get through it all. Believe me, I was hanging on your every freaking word. I am whole heartedly impressed. your love for the series is felt loud and clear. I was excited to see how many quotes you could gather and contextualize throughout the entire video. The video does an excellent job of staying Poignant and measured in expressing your views and even swaying contrary opinions. A herculan feat for a 6 hour video. < not that I disagreed with you at any point during the video but I had many people I knew who werent as invested in the franchise as I am wrote off sotsu and gou as cheap and felt that by extension it cheapened the entirety of the Higurashi franchise. whereas I believe those fans without the context shared within your video, could swayed by this explanation. > Thank you Bess for doing the english speaking When they cry fandom such a favor by laying it out like it is. I too am a Mion lover, that often found myself baned by the overwhelming love for rena and the way the fandom can come to forget Mion due to her lack of juicy murder bait. I just want good things for Mion, and she so often gets forgotten.
Fun fact about episode 15 of Gou. The shop Mion's uncle owns has a reference to Toy Story. If you look at the shelves of toys you can see Woody, Buzz Lightyear and a few other characters on the top shelf. Specifically from Toy Story 4. I wish i was making this up.
I started watching this in the morning today, bit by bit, and am still at it now in the evening- you already made me cry a lil when talking about your moving schools experience. I cannot wait to finish these 6 hours and feel once again the depth and meaningfulness that we all can appreciate within the series that higurashi actually is.
Just finished the entire video and wow this was a wild ride. First of all, thank you for this incredible video and your deep analysis. Higurashi is my all time favorite show and its so nice to see others just as infatuated by its story, if not more seeing how you made a 6h long video essay lol. When I watched gou I was worried tbh, especially seeing how they amped up the gore to a unnecessary degree imo. But I was honestly so exited to have another mystery to solve and still somewhere trusted in higurashis and mainly ryukishi07s past writing. I was utterly disappointed when sotsu came out for all the same reasons you’ve expressed throughout this video. The recaps were exhausting to watch and when the series came to a close I didn’t feel as though these were the same characters I’d fallen in love with. Mostly Satoko… After that I honestly cast it away, condemning it and vowed to never watch it again. I knew meguri would differ to some extent, but I did not wanna touch that either at that point. While I still feel gou and sotsu doesn’t represent higurashi in almost any way, this video made me appreciate some of the thoughts behind the show a bit more. It also made me reflect even more than I had previously on the original show, which was an amazing experience and I loved hearing you talk about it. Personally I still think gou/sotsu were a mistake, although I don’t think it never should have been made. But maybe I’m just partial to having Rikas shrine performance animated hehe. Jokes aside, there are some things I did enjoy and since it’s my favorite show of all time I can’t be too dissatisfied with more content. I’m as of now playing through the visual novel for the first time, although it will take me quite a while to finish. Something I’ve always appreciated having higurashi as my special interest is the amount of content there is, this is a franchise I’ll never get tired of since I feel like there’s always more to explore. By that I don’t just mean there are many arcs, but I feel like the characters, story and world have so much to offer in form of analyzing just like what you’ve done in your videos. Especially the characters, they feel like people to me, they have such complex writing. I also want to thank you for talking about the gou manga as well as meguri, maybe I’ll pick it up sometime after finishing the vn. It seems like a better version of what we got in the anime. I did NOT think I was gonna write this much, but oh well. I guess the last thing I’ll say is yes, I would let Mion throw bricks at me.
I'm still so mad about Tatariakashi. Teppei redemption I can accept, even if I wish more was done to make this rather enormous change of heart more believable. But I just cannot fathom how little this arc seems to actually matter in the grand scheme of things, how it's ultimately just a means to an end, like the arcs preceding it. I was positive this would be *the* turning point. And it was, in a sense. It was the turning point for me realizing just how spiteful this show could get. I remember theorizing that this Tatarigorishi-like fragment suddenly swerving into a Minagoroshi-like one was actually hugely impactful for Satoko because, it's such a miraculous fragment, and it happened in large part due to an aspect that Satoko was always aware of but one that she never seemed to take seriously, because it was the biggest evidence that these worlds actually did matter - non-loopers carrying over certain memories. This would get her to falter for the first time, really recognize the value in people like Keiichi and Shion, people that *would* go above and beyond to help her where Rika (according to her) failed. She would realize that this is in fact the world she wants to stay in, but it's cruelly ripped out from under her, either from her own machinations that she had already set up in advance or Eua's direct intervention, and for the first time Satoko would able to understand Rika's own despair. This is, I think, rather compelling, and would for the first time get me invested in Satoko's character in Sotsu. But no, not only does she not care that this is a Mina world, a world that should carry great significance to her, and she takes active glee in destroying this fragment, and there's no consequences for this. Keiichi and everyone else are nothing more than disposable pawns, happily beating the shit out of Keiichi with her brother's bat (this detail feels particularly spiteful). I would at least think the fact that she didn't kill him outright might mean something but I guess not? I don't care that my theory was wrong, even if I do think it would've been better than what actually went down. I'm just left cold by how, well, cold it felt. And just mean-spirited in general. Which is Sotsu in a nutshell: cold and mean.
I'm glad that this video confirmed for me that the entirety of the Gou/Sotsu/Meguri/whatever-you-want-to-call-this project isn't a 1-to-1 interpretation of Ryukishi’s outline, but it was rather the result of him wanting to do a new Higurashi project where he'd let others toy with the general outlines and form their own story out of it. Basically, a journey from Ryukishi going from a fledgling doujin creator to a doujin... teacher? Not sure what the right term is here lol. A lot of people have been calling all this stuff a "cash grab" and Ryukishi a "hack," and considering I'm still a total newbie to this franchise, at times I felt inclined to believe these comments. But the deeper I got into this series, the more I believed that the Ryukishi I came to know wouldn't do such a thing, especially considering how much he cares for his audience. He put suicide awareness in his VN for Christ's sake, the guy for sure has a heart. But that doubt still remained for sure, as one of my biggest fears when it comes to fiction is when a writer loses touch with their skills and, more importantly, their audience, and I feared this was the case with Ryukishi. I've been reading Meguri, and while I feel like it's still got a bit of a pacing issue, I really do feel like Tomato is doing a good job. And the fact that Meguri is heavily deviates from Sotsu (as well as the fact that GouSotsu Another End is apparently a thing) tells me that this entire project truly is Ryukishi wanting others to get that opportunity to interpret his works, similar to how a doujinshi artist makes their content. Like you said, it's a passion project, and it feels like Ryukishi this time wanted to spread that joy of creation to others. And your research on Ryukishi's stance on Gou/Sotsu/Meguri/etc, really confirmed these feelings. I was happy enough to know that Ryukishi isn’t entirely at fault for Gou/Sotsu’s poor handling, but to know that the reason behind all of this was to let people use his IP to make their own content, their own conclusions, really warmed my heart. Though I can understand the frustration of it being “official” lol. But not only that, this video gave me insight on a nature of Higurashi that I don’t think I would’ve figured out on my own. I went in thinking it was "haha edgy shit," came out thinking it was a really well written horror piece that tackled mental illness, and now I'm here knowing there's more to it. Higurashi is also a personification of the heart of doujin culture, a type of love, creativity, and freedom that you don't see much nowadays in a world that seems to disadvantage small, indie creators. So thank you for that. Can’t wait for Ryukishi’s works on Ciconia Phase 2 and A DAMN SILENT HILL GAME BABY LET'S GO.
Hi, I’ve never played/read/watched any Higurashi media of any kind and yet I wanted to say that I found myself transfixed and very moved by your video. I’m an AuDHD person who uses RUclips keep my brain engaged while doing daily tasks, and so I watch/listen to lots of video essays on subjects of which I have little prior knowledge. I enjoy how thoughtfully-made video essays engage me intellectually and emotionally, and I go down a lot of rabbit holes in random topics. All this boring expositional junk to say that your work here was a truly exceptional experience for me with a video essay. You did a fantastic job establishing context and connecting it to your analysis insofar that despite my ignorance of Higurashi, I was still totally able to understand your very lucid arguments. I realize now that I had the completely wrong impression of Higurashi- only gleaning occasional memes and references, I falsely assumed that the franchise was “just” a violent shockfest. Though I like horror, I didn’t looked further into Higurashi because of my sensitivity to gore. Suffice it to say, this video tore down that impression. Still, I don’t regret passively avoiding Higurashi for so many years. Rather, I’m thankful that your video will be my introduction to the franchise. I find myself rewinding sections of this video to reflect on your words even as I write this. I gained lot of respect for Ryujishi07, 7th expansion, and the Higurashi fan community through watching this retrospective. In particular, I found myself empathizing with the characters, the authors, and your critical voice through the sheer breadth of meaningful details and anecdotes that you presented. Even though I do not understand Higurashi, I understand why people love Higurashi. I feel that Higurashi has become special to me, too. I’m grateful for the existence of GouSotsu because, like you said, it gave you a reason to make this video- and this video gave me a reason to experience Higurashi for myself. I’m going to start from the beginning and see which path I take from there. I’m sure this comment was a total ramble but I wanted to share my sincere appreciation. Thank you!
Phew! I wasn't sure if I was going to leave another comment but after hitting the end of the video I really felt like I should say something. I mentioned briefly on Patreon how excited I was to see this video drop and -- it feels gauche to say that such a personal piece of work 'lived up to my expectations', as if I have the right to place those on you, but with each Higurashi video you put out you open my eyes to new aspects of the work I've never truly put thought into and as someone who truly could not stand GouSotsu from the get go I had a tentative hope that you might be able to imbue in me some of the appreciation for it that lots of other people in the community seemed to have. And while I can't exactly say that I like or appreciate the series any more than I did all those months ago, I came out of this video feeling almost exorcised of those lingering feelings of spite and resentment about the series, like I had made my peace with its existence. After all - GouSotsu only made me feel as strongly as I did because I love When They Cry as a whole so much and I never think it's a bad thing to love a story like this. And it was wonderful to hear you comb through the story, finding things to enjoy and praise about the work that I'd never myself had the stomach for. As I said in my prior comment, Satoko as a character is someone I feel very strongly about so this sense of desecration or I guess disrespect for her I felt Sotsu had at times was really painful to see -- now at least I can appreciate that *someone* working on the show felt something for Satoko like I did and wanted to focus on her story, even if they did it in ways I disagreed with. Ultimately, this was just a really lovely epilogue to the experience that was watching GouSotsu. Your feelings on Higurashi shine through in every essay you produce and I think they stood out the brightest here. I hope the process of making this video was as rewarding for you as my watching it was for me - and I hope you don't mind this big, overly long comment at the end of it!
Of course not, I'm really happy to receive my very first comment on the completed video 🥲 Like I said I also had no idea what this video would end up being but it did enable me to make peace with Gou and Sotsu and I'm really honoured it could help to do the same for you. I know Satoko's writing especially created very disparate, strong feelings in so many people but I couldn't tap into that in quite the same way I could the feelings about Mion's arc for example, so I'm really glad to hear the video was resonant or helpful in any way regarding that aspect of the two shows. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
I wanted to make another comment where in the Visual novel, the message was to communicate and not to run away from issues or act on impulse, instead to talk, and to reach out and find other more viable solutions to issues.. In Gou and Sotsu they could have worked further with this message by actually making Shion relevant, telling Satoko that this was not the school for her, that she could still see Rika during school breaks and weekends, that just because they go to different schools doesn't mean they'll never see eachother again. Satoko considering this decides that she'd at least go with Rika because even though Shion is right, she wants to support her friend. Shion also tells Satoko when the decision is made, to call her if she ever needs someone to talk to, gives her tips on navigating the school so she can call Shion and not risk getting in trouble, as well as how they can meet in person when Satoko needs her big sister. Of course Satoko laughs and waves her off thinking things would be fine. But of course Satoko ends up having Shion as a confidant and Shion gets just a bit angry about how Satoko is treated by the school and Rikas lack of support despite her also trying to help Satoko (this would be the manga version). Shion, though with a good heart kind of makes things worse for Satoko due to the two being seen together, and Shion not having the best reputation, she rages at the school too and Satokos life is made worse there. Rika feels betrayed that Satoko (in her perspective) made Shion think of her as a bad person even though Satoko was just owning her truth to her and Shion got impulsive, but Rika loves Shion too and didn't want to lose her as a friend. Satoko learns about looping at the club meetup etc, and Satoko does what she does in the manga, tries finding her works without harming anyone, doesn't work, she says goodbye to Satoshi and starts becoming more.... forceful. But in her first attempt in committing to harm others, we see her hesitation and in conflict. She loves her friends, and she's seen all the pain Rika went through for that supposed happy ending. Satoko not only would be forcing Rika in the prison of her 10 year old body, but Satoko would be killing their friends now, making Rika relive her traumas, and by putting the blood of Satokos friends on her hands, the friends who saved her from Teppei, and treated her like a person when no one else would. This would be the most difficalt action for Satoko to make, and after committing, we the the 'I'm sorry' repetition from Satoko. After many loops, the characters start beginning aware of other loops, Shion becomes more aware of the fragments of Satokos life in St luscia and she confronted Satoko about it. Satoko is surprised and starts reverting back to the person she once was and talks to Shion about everything going on, including the looping and her regrets in her acting but how they were nessicary. Shion is taken aback and believes it was all a dream. Satoko in her eyes would never do such horrible things, but due to her fragmented memories, she somewhat remembers about how Rika would talk of different worlds and timeliness, so the looping isn't out of the question especially when Rika is involved. I don't know if it's a good enough explanation but it's what I got. Of course upset at Rika and acts on impulse, Mion tries to stop it, defending Rika, she also has memories and after Shions outrage Rika confirms to Mion. Eventually Keichi and Rena become aware and they take Satokos and Rikas side respectively. Not understanding the full story but enough that they get the gist. Satoko is like Keichiis little sister and Rena believes rika would have tried to help Satoko and she knows Satoko to doubt herself and be stubborn. Though Rena is more soft spoken and understanding of them both and that there could have been miscommunication. The friendships between the club breaks Satoko down. In her eyes, at least in every world she entered she could have fun bonding with her friends, and things would be happy for a while. But seeing her friends being aggressive to eachother without any catalyst of the Hinamizawa syndrome being the cause of it, Satoko breaks down with guilt, regret and shame of what she became. She realised that she's the cause of the negativity of her friends. She doesn't loop this time though... she instead confronts Rika. This time apologising to her face of all the things she did when looping, and why it became like this, and saying she finally understands the curse Rika had with looping. Rika also understands Satokos pain in finding the ideal world, and finally understanding that they are two different people that can't have ideals and life decisions pushed onto them. Rika finally truly appreciates Satokos decision at the beginning to go to St Lucia only to support Rika, and she apologises for not reaching out to help her and support her the way she needed her to, she tells Satoko that they will loop one more time, back to the original world where Satoko will transfer schools to one better for her, with Mion Rena and Keichi. The two agree to still be friends and confidants when it comes to the trauma they faced when looping. Rika finally can talk to Satoko about her experiences and how she suffered, Satoko has Rika to help her face the emotional consequences of her actions, and understanding how Satokos childhood and fear of abandonment and being alone could have affected her into doing what she did. They take a lot of time to become the close friends they once were, but the mutual understanding and the trust they have towards eachothers secrets knowing both have had their mistakes in life, keeps them together in the early stages, and slowly they keep opening up, the memories of how they used to be start returning and slowly they start being able to bond the way they used to again. while Satoko is looping (and it would be told as true to manga version)
I have finally watched the whole video. It is one of the best videos I've ever seen, anywhere, on anything. The empathy you show while maintaining candor and clarity is amazing, and made me cry several times, as well as reflect on where my own empathy still needs to improve. You are exactly the kind of person Higurashi was written for. Instead of sharing my bitter disappointment about Gou-Sotsu, I want to say that, to me, Higurashi's magic has always been its antidote to scapegoating. What Rika calls fate is the cycle of scapegoating in which Hinamizawa is entangled to its foundations, and which it renewed each year in the symbolism of the guts-drifting ritual. People generally knew it was wrong but kept it to themselves for fear of being next-that scapegoating is unjust was common knowledge, but the paranoia-induced breakdown of communication prevented anyone from realizing it was common knowledge until Keiichi rallied the village to liberate Satoko. Hinamizawa Syndrome places each villager into the mindset of a scapegoat, and its progression is the sliding scale of zero-sum morality, from "I won't help this person because no-one will help me if I do" to "it's kill or be killed". Zero-sum means any ground one party gets must be taken from the other party-and that means the village's harmony lay on tense, fractured foundations. When people get caught in these cycles, that then look like fate inevitable and inescapable, they lose hope and project their hopelessness onto others. The cultivation of hope in friendship is a lynchpin for every core character's development because of that-what I admire most about Mion are her communication skills; she creates a space that facilitates open communication of difficult subjects like no-one else, and she does so with steadiness and humility that mix perfectly with her tomboy persona. Her decision to make the club for Satoko was arguably the first move taken on the board (once the fragments were positioned so the game was winnable) on the side against fate. I actually realized a few days ago that Mion is my favorite Higurashi character now, rather than Hanyuu; I think no less of Hanyuu (and still consider her by far the most underrated character in the story thanks to Saikoroshi), but I've come to realize how valuable and powerful Mion's skills are, as I'm someone who's always found it hard to communicate (and often to even recognize) emotional turmoil and thus am prone to marinating negative assumptions in my head about others and letting them fester into scapegoat affects for distrust in myself to communicate honestly and distrust in others to receive my expression empathetically. I've realized I could more or less ask myself "What would Mion do?" in situations where I'm unsure whether or how to express my feelings. Hope compounds on itself, successful communication leads to further successful communication, and a robust feedback loop between hope and friendship is the mechanism that defies fate and creates miracles as the best qualities of people who are good for each other resonate into something even better-the power to break cycles. Ryukishi's statements about society as a circle and two people (but the more the merrier) being the minimum to create a universe combine, in light of what I've just written, into an almost blindingly hopeful vision of humanity where the art of friendship can pass from one link to the next and eventually encompass a world which can shed its dependencies on, and resignation to, scapegoating-scapegoating is contagious, and tends to be reciprocated, but the same goes for open, honest communication; the latter just requires more work to form into a cohesive, self-maintaining system of habits. Scapegoating is the inevitable outcome of "I'll treat you the way you treat me" because responding to cruelty with cruelty almost never accomplishes anything except making it harder and harder for each party to trust the other-simple-minded fairness is inherently imbalanced because breaking trust is far, far easier than earning it, and it never feels fair to have to be the bigger person after someone has hurt you. And Ryukishi, who has social work experience, understands that these cycles of traumatic miscommunication are often rooted in physical, emotional, and spiritual needs that go unmet because the institutions that are supposed to meet them are broken (from the Child Welfare Center to the Sonozaki empire to the scholars who disgraced Takano's grandfather to the orphanage Takano was abused at to St. Lucia and its malicious elitism, etc.), which create systematic breakdowns in communication for many people, potentially for many generations. Higurashi was never about character vs. character; it was always about how people failed by their community transmitted that failure through their interactions and lost the hope that would provide the incentive to realize better outcomes by creating community that learns from failures of communication instead of perpetuating them. Mion's club is the purest, strongest expression of friendship-community that I've ever seen, amidst a hellscape of senseless tragedies.
4 and a half hours in, and I kindda... Forgot Takano was in Sotsu at all. I forgot she just sort of decided to not be evil anymore cuz she found a letter (at least thats what it feels like based on how little time we spend on it), but if I had remembered it that would have been one of my biggest problems with the show. She really does just get handwaved away because she's not the main villain anymore, but her change really should have been the focus of at least an arc. Her whole thing is her indomitable will to achieve her goal, that's what started the loops to begin with, so her just going 'nevermind' and walking without serious focus on how big that change is just feels out of nowhere.
3:24:22 Satoko doesn't refute Eua's comment about her no longer being human. She only refutes Eua once Eua says she's no longer _Satoko,_ merely saying she's still herself so long as she's pursuing her happy world with Rika. And notably Satoko is consistent about this, as even after becoming a witch she still considers herself Satoko (she even fought with her human self over the right to the name itself). Also I suspect Eua implying she wasn't Satoko any longer has something to do with her having called Satoko Vier earlier.
Thanks for being the person to highlight what makes this series so special in the eyes of its creators and its fans alike. I watched Higurashi in 2020 for the first time as I recognized the character in the promotional art for Gou. Out of morbid curiosity about the show along with its infamous horror elements and environmental tone, I kept watching and found myself pulled to the mystery of the series and it's been a wild journey. If it weren't for that promotional poster of Rena as a declaration of the continuation of the series Ryukishi07 built, I would've never delved deep into the world of Hinamizawa, and I would have missed the opportunity to stumble on your videos explaining your unique perspective on many aspects of the series. Thank you for making your mark on the Higurashi side of RUclips by showing old and new fans like myself what makes this franchise so unique
Thank you for this monumental video , that must have been a lot of work ! Higurashi is so special ... I have grown very attached to it , your post-mortem really helped me shading more lights to higurashi (like your other videos ) and only makes my love even stronger for this incredible thing Ryukishi has started , tbh after gou/sotsu i wasn't sure how to feel ... But now i do , Higurashi shouldn't be approached like other forms of media or games where we care about what's canon or not , actually Higurashi is more akin to .. Touhou or even Vocaloid , thoses three things shares in common community work , it's up to us if we want to approve what comes after the OG series or the og series itself , Ryukishi really values his fans opinions and is willing to let people put their own piece of coton to drift on the River he created .. Truly Higurashi is a Festival in itself , reuniting us each time , on a fatefui day. Higurashi means a lot to me , like all the fellow fans out there , i get surprised by how higurashi can influence me sometimes, and even make me go through things i wouldn't with other piece of works , i feel the need to expand on my knowledge of higurashi and what others think of higurashi and it's so fun , and ahah this video is truly a masterpiece and i didn't even get bored during thoses 6hours , i can feel the love yiu have put in making this video so vividly , in each videos you make about higurashi actually , which really makes anything you post about higurashi such a treat , and it surprises that i was able to go through it without being bored , there's hardly anything i would watch for 6hours and i never did in the first place , at the end of the video i legit had tears of happiness , i'm so glad to know Higurashi
i came back to Higurashi once GouSotsu was already a thing, and while going through some of the sound novels there was a fear in the back of my mind that GouSotsu had killed the series i was learning to love all over again, so i never watched it. lately, i couldn't stop thinking about it so instead of watching the series by myself, with an already negative disposition, i decided to watch this video, and i can't put into words just how much it meant to me. it's true that GouSotsu has changed Higurashi as a whole for SOME people, but i shouldn't let that happen to me if i don't want to. i can enjoy GouSotsu as a different Higurashi media, just like Outbreak or even Kizuna. the truth is, there's no correct way to consume media, and the conclusion of this video has opened my eyes when it comes to that regard
I agree with you on the handling of Mion in Gō-Sotsu. And I am happy to have discovered in your video (which I did listen to in its entirety) that Ryūkishi07 allowed Studio Passione to do as they wanted ('they're the specialists') and was surprised to see what they came up with (at many places, but here specifically in Mion's case). Higurashi ends up being a story with so many branchings and directions and ideas (include here a reference to your video on all Higurashi arcs), and with characters doing so many things (to the point I often think Ryūkishi was much more interested in the characters themselves than in any plot or story -- it's the exploration of their personalities, flaws and virtues, that he cared about, and the 'what happened when to whom' part was a tool for this exploration), that this sounds strangely OK. Ryūkishi07 would have done things differently, and that is important, but he is OK with letting others play with his creations. That is somehow... refreshing, even if Passione may have done, as you claimed, 'something obscene.'
After watching the ending of Gou and Sotsu, it was pretty easy for me to pinpoint some of the things that I was irritated with execution wise. It’s understandable that someone could be frustrated from the considerable missteps and mistakes in Gou and Sotsu. It’s understandable someone could be upset and saddened by those as well. After-all, I was feeling that way. I’ve felt that way before about animes, art, tv shows, movies, and been mostly fine. Only upon trying to move forward, did I realize that I couldn’t understand the discomfort, unease, and myriad of other inexplicable emotions I felt. Those feelings weren’t ones I could really process at the time. Your video, particularly your conclusion, helped give me the closure I think I was looking for. Using your own nostalgic experiences with higurashi, higurashi’s take on “true/happy endings”, and a considerable amount of Ryukishi07’s view point helped switch my own perspective to better look on why I was feeling so uncomfortable. I had felt like the “true” happy ending, the one I attached to, was ripped away. Honestly, any major change was likely to bring me discomfort and unease. Knowing why I felt those things was the majority of the battle for me. After I knew why I felt that way and listened to your interpretation of higurashi’s message of “endings”, those unprocessed feelings that were once boiling over began to fizzle out. This doesn’t mean that I now like the missteps and notable issues in Gou and Sotsu, but, after gaining said closure, I can recognize that I’m glad higurashi continues to live on and that we are lucky enough to be able to feel things this meaningful towards a series. Im also extremely glad that we can have a community where people feel strongly enough to watch and make fantastic videos such as your own. You very much did make me feel seen with your interpretations of these amazing characters. The visuals and music of your video alongside your descriptions and interpretations made me cry multiple times. Thank you for your hard work.
It is so sad that the end result was what we saw in the anime, 'cause Meguri has almost completely fixed and demonstrated the absolute potential of this "after story" of the Higurashi original arcs. I loved and agreed with all of your takes and reasoning on Satoko's feelings and motivation, that was all I wanted from Gou & Sotsu to present to us in a more explicit and understandable way, without relaying in Umineko easter eggs or outside knowledge. Although I don't neccessarily think that this story was justified, I was all in for the ride and with hopes of being surprised (which I technically was, but not in a good way), and after it was finished I just thought that the version of "Dear You" at the end deserved to be in a better ending ;/ I can't explain my thoughts more especifically because of my english limitations, but I want to say that I still enjoyed the whole 39 episodes and it's a shame that those episodes could have been exploided in a more efficient and exciting way. Higurashi was the first visual novel I ever read, and part of my journey to loving and undertanding it is by seeing your videos about the themes and characters of this incredible story. Your work is truly inspiring and I'm so grateful to know someone who is a Mion stan just like myself :')) your Mion content made me love her even more. Keep doing what you love, you make many people (including myself) very happy, I wish you are doing well and I'm hungry for more When They Cry content like this video behemoth, or well not that big hahaha, from you :D
Oh I entirely forgot the pure frustration and anger I felt at the end credits of the final episode and somehow your soothing narration did nothing to quell that… until that cathartic AF ‘Thank fuck’ at the end, lmao. I didn’t realize how much I still felt about about the series and this is bringing it all back! I have a feeling I’ll be back with more to say (I just need a breather at the… wow, 5 hour-ish-mark? Incredible how the video never felt like it dragged at any point) but I gotta say, this has been an excellent dissection that makes me feel so much more sane about how I felt at the time.
Thank you so very much for putting into words how so many of us feel this Higurashi has meant so much to me throughout the years and as someone who suffers with mental illness I would like to say thank you for having so much care and respect for how you speak on it, I’m so happy to have been a fan of your channel for so long and I can’t wait to see you grow I’ll definitely be here for the ride💕
Thank you for so much work on this retrospective! It was fully worth sitting down with you for six hours and going through it piece by piece. With the bitter taste Gou/Sotsu left in my mouth, I knew I was going to agree with most of your points. But I was pleasantly surprised with how positive I felt coming out of your video. Not just with the hope I got from hearing about the improvements Meguri was making to the plot but hearing all those facts about Ryukishi and his view surrounding stories. I dunno it just...spoke to something in me. So yeah, great video, Bess!
I saw someone else say that this video helped them put GouSotsu to rest and honestly that's such a concise and perfect way to put it. I have held a lot of strong resentment to the creators and the show itself since it aired, I felt it was disgusting and trampled over and tore apart everything the original was, like the heart of the show was completely missing. And it hurt, a lot, as someone whom the original meant so much to. I stopped watching after the second episode of Sotsu and after hearing second hand how it ended I decided that was the right choice. But even after I decided to abandon it and pretend it never happened, I couldn't stop thinking about how much I hated it and how angry I was at the choices made and every now and again I'd just get so angry and sad thinking about it. After this video however, I finally feel like I can let it go and accept it for what it is. GouSotsu didn't make me cry, it made me angry. This video made me weep, it saw my anger and told me it understood and I could finally release it. This video made me realize that the reason I was so angry was because I loved the characters and the original so much that I, just like Satoko, was clinging to it, begging it not to change or leave, claiming them as mine and wanting them to go exactly where I'd put them, then I was angry when from my perspective someone took it and forced it to change, melding it into something it's not. But sometimes things change. They might not change in a way I like, but I can't just keep them stagnant in a place I want them, or they can never grow. And I can either stick around to see it, or I can walk away. No matter the choice I make, nothing will take away what the original gave me. This video was amazing and exactly what I needed, you afforded this show so much grace and benefit of the doubt that I couldn't bring myself to and really went in deep, peeling away layer after layer until all the tangled feelings in me due to this show were unraveled and laid bare and finally put to rest. Thank you for making this. I hope this was worth the time it took to make it for you, because the time it took to watch it was absolutely worth it to me. Might even do something crazy and watch it over and over again. Absolutely spectacular video.
This video is amazing and your analysis is so great. The way you explain the ways Rika was at fault and how her wanting Satoko AND St. Lucia is just as wrong as Satoko wanting to tear Rika away from her refuge by force. And on a personal note I found myself really relating with Satoko as a sort of "evil me" as if I gave into my worst urges and your explanation of codependency really hit home. And the mention that for Satoko Hinamizawa is a refuge and for Rika a prison reminded me deeply of a situation with the person I thought of when relating with Satoko. Thank you so much for making this.
I'm only in the Satokowashi-hen segment, but I do think if Satokowashi was written in sound novel format, being able to actually show the decay of the relationship through a long period of time would have really made the experience feel more believable. I think the nature of anime requiring a faster pace makes the story suffer. A long, drawn-out, agonizing descent into madness would be way more appropriate, and would really help to make Satoko more sympathetic, but I don't think it would make for good "anime." Edit: I'm glad to see the manga tackles the arc better, but it makes me even more disappointed in the anime. It could have been better.
my god. 6 hours of video from one of the best higurashi youtubers, talking about the amazing dumpsterfire that is Gou/Sotsu. thanks for putting all this work into a video.
It's always so lovely to find people so passionate about the stories I love as well, and Higurashi is one of the stories I adore the most and has the biggest impact on me as I've grown into an adult and as a creative person. I was absolutely excited for Gou and Sotsu and no lie, disappointment was present for sure, but I still did find enjoyment on the new fresh takes. It was definitely as you said it, the feeling of returning home. I tend to get overwhelmed with feelings way too much to put things to words ever, so I think this amazingly done 6-hour video managed to resonate well how I felt about GouSotsu and Higurashi, as well as the When They Cry universe as a whole too. TLDR awesome video so worth watching in the span of two days
I've loved Higurashi for more than 15 years, and I was deeply disappointed in Sotsu - in what it turned Satoko into (of course Rika's also at fault, but it isn't comparable in my opinion, especially when so little is shown), in the whole "but I hate studying!" excuse, the pacing, thw amount of times I had to watch _that_ scene of Rika dancing and in the whole ending. I'm going to start the video now (and I'm going to take my time with it since I have a lot of things to do today and Sotsu made me so upset it might be better to pause a lot anyway) and then edit my comment when I have more to say. I wonder if I should read the Gou manga and its sequel. I like most of the Gou anime, so... maybe. Opinions?
Meguri isn't finished yet however without trying to spoil too much it really feels like they tried to branch away from the anime's interpretation of what motivated Satoko (was even the highlight selling point of the manga in Japan.) However the current chapter has me worried they're going to go straight back to a more Sotsu approach for whatever reason in the end. I wouldn't say Satoko's actions are at all redeemable however the manga was at least making her downfall more believable (no studying bullshit)... until you realize how far she's willing to go is possibly farther in the manga than even Sotsu, which kinda makes things feel like they don't fit right anyway. TL;DR Satoko still kinda feels like she's being written as a psycho for the sake of body counts and "LOLOL gotta please yandere-loli fans because that's all that Higurashi fans want!!"
Now that Meguri has finished, how do you feel about it? It didn't fix all of the problems, but I feel like the ending was a lot more satisfying. I'd love to hear your thoughts
Gou/sotsu satoko felt very personal for me as someone who went to middle school with my best friend at the time, but having said friend ditch me and tell me to no longer speak to her as i started to get bullied. I am kinda projecting onto her and relating to satoko was very cathartic as someone who hasnt forgiven the person that ditched me like that and played a huge role in isolating me. I know its not quite relevant but gou/sotsu was such a comfort to me in such a personal way i just had to express it somewhere and felt like this may be a safe space to do so. Im still mid video but i already love it a lot Btw i know im missing some points of the story by focussing on the contempt satoko feels but it was just a convenient tool for me to cope, i love higurashi as it is outside of my projections and i love rika even tho shes the canvas im projecting the cause of some of my trauma onto
Also, I realize now where Lambda in Umineko gets her “win for all eternity” attitude toward Beatrice. LD needed Beato to keep winning to keep Bern around. Satoko was used the same way to keep Eua’s boredom at bay. She was convinced that the future will always be bad so she just needs to trap her friends in June 1983 to be happy
4:57:47 "gou and sotsu's ending fails by talking about the ending it replaced" YES that's exactly my feelings on it. I hate the idea of this sequel because of how it spoils the original ending
This was an excellent watch, can't applaud enough what a massive effort it must've been and what a contribution it is to the fandom. I really appreciate your thorough breakdown of Satokowashi's conflict and Rika / Satoko's relationship dysfunction as whole - this is a great resource for understanding them as characters and how / why they keep hurting each other. It really frustrated me, while the show was airing, seeing folks not grasp how the core situation was a product of both their respective traumas and assumptions about one another (admittedly not helped by how the show presented it, as you explained - the dichotomy that so much discourse seemed to follow, that one of them is Good and the other Bad, was chilling especially as dehumanizing idolization and denigration play such a role in the breakdown of their relationship!) Satokowashi, for all its execution missteps, was definitely the arc that connected with me most, precisely for these insights about how their histories follow them later in life and how the school is yet another institution letting them down. (In particular loved that you went into actual studies to contextualize Satoko's behavior!! Trying to process this arc last year led me to research stats on youth incarceration and solitary confinement myself, including the pretty staggering prevalence of high ACE scores among incarcerated girls here in the US. I think if this story had been as serious about considering these subjects as the original, the kids' experiences here could've facilitated some meaningful discussion of how institutions like the school can better support children following severe trauma, just as we saw with the club and Hinamizawa as a whole... oh well.) Also _deeply_ appreciate you clearly naming Eua's role in Satoko's life as exploitative. Satoko's revictimization is another part of this story that hit home most for me, but the specific mechanics of how she's taken advantage of in this vulnerable state (as you noted, not dissimilar to Takano and Nomura; IMO also echoing how Ooishi uses K in the original question arcs) doesn't seem to get discussed too often. Similarly, I liked that you identified the simple contradiction of allowing these Witch figures to seemingly absorb responsibility for what happened against how the original ending approached Hanyuu. And as a Takano fan, I thought your comments that she had such potential to become a positive figure in Rika's life - at the very least to help her understand Satoko's mistakes - were dead-on. Enormous missed opportunities everywhere to further interrogate and recontextualize these characters and their environments. After almost a year of digesting I'd come to the conclusion that the new series was disappointingly messy and self-contradictory, but ultimately had an emotional core that I appreciated and messages about returning to the past that I found personally resonant enough to prompt some worthwhile self-reflection. You've given me a lot more to think about both in how the stories were constructed and in what I see in them. So, thank you.
I always love watching your Higurashi content. I'm very passionate about this series as well, and you always seem to put it clearly into words how I feel about the topics. I watched both Gou and Sotsu as they came out, and had very conflicting emotions while watching them, which I think you perfectly described during this video.
Sotsu should have worked as a 'look behind the curtain' sequel but it also wasted so much potential outside of Satoko just injecting everyone. Don't know if the writers were trying to make Satoko sympathetic but they failed. Amazingly.
I just watched this entire video from beginning to end, and let me just say: Thank you. I cannot begin to imagine how much effort must have gone into putting this all together. Not only has this video helped me re-contextualize various elements of Gou and Sotsu and also the entire Higurashi universe, but it also helped me realize why this universe has always resonated so strongly with me, even if I was unable to put it into words before. This video has made me realize how this universe has always been a mirror for my own past experiences, even more so my own past trauma. And I would have never come to that conclusion (or at least, not this soon) had I not dedicated the past 6 hours of my life to watching this. So I'll state it again: Thank you. Easily the most impactful video essay/analysis I've ever watched.
gou, imo, was retroactively ruined by sotsu. gou set the tee up almost perfectly despite the rush (imo), but sotsu dropped almost every single ball. I have no idea why they decided not to cover the fallout between satoko and the rest of the cast, as it was literally one of the most massive draws (for me) regarding the sotsu series, and the relationship between satoko and rika was rushed to an insane degree instead of properly walking out the ending steps. the breakdown and resulting destruction was tossed out in favor of dragging out the setup in sotsu.
I would say I got cheap enjoyment/fanservice out of the series, but only when suspending belief and ignoring canon facts about the characters. The fan theories were better then what we got and I think some of mine are becoming true in the manga version. Pretty sure we might see other loopers or characters that will remember what Satoko did. He might be trying to fix it for the manga by using fan theories/comments. I think the manga seems to be doing some of what you wanted or doing better in general. Mion is my favorite too, I felt like she has never had any spotlight, her own arc isn't even about her. It's weird R07 would pick Satoko to focus on because he felt he neglected her or something like that. I would hope he is planning something big for her in the future with how much she is ignored. Though it would be hard to write a believable L5 Mion, but what they went with wasn't believable ether. Would of been fine keeping it as Shion since at this point we knew it was a sequel. Looper Mion would of been awesome to see, but I have no idea how that could possibly be written. I do love the idea of how every character would deal with looping or learning the truth of Rika. Satoko questioning her actions with Teppei of all people. I'm ok with Teppei reforming, but it should of been Keiichi that she had that internal struggle over. This is supposed to be going on in Satoko's head and she isn't actually a looper? On the plus side you can deny Gou/Sotsu, but on the negative side that made it all pointless. Satoko and Rika are just having an argument and this is going on in Satoko's head? Rika is confessing to her to being a looper I assume? That fight at the end made it seem like it wasn't actually happening but negating the whole series but then saying yes it did happen? I don't even know anymore. Then there is Reiwa, as if fans weren't miserable enough. I hope R07 starts taking WTC more seriously again. I am heavily invested in what WTC as a whole is all about, but based on those interviews I have little hope he will ever answer it.
I finished it today and wished it was longer. I could listen to you, Bess, for an eternity. Your kind of speaking is so calming and clear that I as a non-native understand everything perfectly. This video was far more interesting than the actual series of Gou and Sotsu. I’ll definitely watch it again. You make me understand Higurashi so much better and enjoy it even more. I’m already curious of how reading the novel feels after understanding all the aspects you spoke about here and in your other videos. We Higurashi fans are blessed that there is someone who is so clever and great at analysing and shares her thoughts with us so that we can enjoy Higurashi even more. Thank you, Bess!
I have nothing but deep respect for you and this video. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and even sharing parts of your life with us. I'm looking forward to all of your future content!!
I absolutely love the conclusion that you reached at the end of the video. Made me think of how I consume and interpret the media I consume myself. Love your work
I feel so bad that it's taken me so long to digest all of this, but I want to thank you for this. This is a genuinely incredible essay that really gave voice to both a lot of frustrations I had while watching this and also some measure of peace with what this means. I was someone who took Ryukishi at his word. I'd taken Gou as a chance to introduce a friend of mine to this series that has meant so much to me because I knew there was no way I could get him to read the sound novels and he wouldn't touch the original series' animation. There was a certain dissonance in watching it this way, in feeling this growing frustration that felt like this series was losing so much of the richness in character and detail that had left me in love with the original, but at the same time, there was so much joy. I was finally having these conversations about Higurashi I'd wanted to have with my friend about these characters and what I loved about them and this world. And it was paired with a certain sense of delight. That I was able to have this "conversation" again with a When They Cry story after so long (I know, I know, Ciconia, but I'm withering away waiting for lack of the next phase of that), however much it felt like a betrayal of Umineko's plea with readers to never stop thinking at times. I think there is definite value in remembering, as you said, Higurashi's roots as a doujinshi and embracing the ideas of doujinshi culture, in taking value in what resonates with you and using works that don't to better define what you did like about the original. I'm rambling, but I just wanted to thank you for this again and offer you that +1 to engagement so that RUclips knows you're doing great work. And thank you for giving me reason to check out Tomato Akase's manga! I'm really excited about where their version of the story ends up going.
Absolutely amazing analysis. I commonly come back to just watch individual segments or analyses just because it's all so fuckin good... You really are the master of Higurashi vids tbh. I especially love your character study on Teppei. He's an amazing villain, and it genuinely hurt to see them try to redeem him in Higurashi. Not just because of how it ignores Satoko's abuse, but how it tarnishes *Teppei* as a character, too. If I can just talk for a moment here... I kinda wanna make my own comments about a certain thing. The segment where Rika is killed in various fragments by different L5 victims. I cannot believe how badly the GouSotsu anime fucked this up (though I'm reading the Gou manga and it did some of it a lot better imo, which I'll talk about). Let's start with Akane. Let's move pass the fact that by nature of Gou being an anime we've seen FAR less of Akane than we did in the vn (which was already fairly little compared to everyone else) and thus don't have much investment in her if we're a newcomer like Gou is apparently trying to market to. First off, we see Akane brutally murder some random dude, and then decapitate Mion with barely a second thought. We see a handful of HS victims kill family members in the original. Satoko pushes her own parents to their deaths and is traumatized for life. Satoshi kills his aunt, who was HORRIBLY abusive to both him and his sister. And then, Shion kills Mion, and is overtaken with so much guilt that she literally goes insane. What remorse does Akane have at killing her own daughter? Literally nothing. I know this is a short segment, but not even some blood-stained tears, or a reluctant "I'm sorry"? It's so unsatisfying (the manga just shows Mion's body, instead of the actual killing, which I prefer). She then says to Rika that if she could have chosen, she would never have been born in Hinamizawa. Rika agrees, and resigns to her fate of dying. Akane's motive here only barey makes sense. I can see why she might think their bloodline is corrupt due to her parasitosis, but we simply don't get any elaboration on how she came to this conclusion like the original L5 victims. The manga version is largely the same, but I think is executed with more grace and respect than the anime version. And also, another thing: Rika doesn't agree when Akane says they should have never been born in Hinamizawa. She's absolutely TERRIFIED. She hasn't given up wanting to live in Hinamizawa. This basic thing I think makes the segment in the manga work more for me, and makes it fail in the anime. In the anime, Rika just seems cynical and ready to die without putting up a fight. In the next scene, we see Kimiyoshi drowning her in the swamp. In the anime, Rika bitterly insults him and hardly seems to care that her LEGAL GUARDIAN is about to brutally murder her. This doesn't really make sense to me. Why exactly is Rika unaffected by the fact that her own guardian is about to kill her? In the manga, she is absolutely horrified. Throughout the manga murders, Rika shows reasonable, genuine fear at the fact that all these people are suddenly susceptible to the syndrome. The manga also adds some murders to further increase the bizzare nature of these killings. I dig the detail of Shion killing Rika with the same method as she killed Satoko, since it's probably what happened in Watanagashi-hen (since she only killed herself in Meakashi). There's also the random inclusion of Keiichi's mom as a killer? I think that solidifes this segment as something totally abnormal and not just some people suddenly contracting the syndrome for no reason, which I don't think the anime version conveyed well. This chapter also ends with Rika stating that she'll continue to believe in her friends, despite all this death. Keiichi's murders seemed mostly the same to me. I like the Gou manga a lot but unfortunately in some parts it does have the same trappings as the anime. And then, there's Akasaka... In the anime, we barely see him. He and Rika have a brief, hollow feel-good moment, before it immediately cuts to a derange Akasaka going "itchy-itchy" and brutally murdering Rika and burning the house down. This was legit devastating to me. I was spoiled about L5 Akasaka before I got to this, and I was like "Wow, Akasaka's a really important character and was basically the catalyst for the success of Matsuribayashi, I wonder how Akasaka turning will flip the story around!" And then they just... do jack shit with it. Rika barely seems affected by it. Akasaka's motive is some nonsense about killing the bugs. And then it just ends. In the manga, though... We get a whole segment with Akasaka, Rika, and Satoko. Akasaka and rika genuinely get heartwarming moments together. Satoko invites him to their house, which both gives another nice scene, gives some foreshadowing with Satoko saying she'll "never let [him] have Rika," and also providing a chance for Satoko to potentially inject him or put the H173 in his food. And then, after all these scenes, Akasaka still kills her. But first of all, it's framed less for shock value and more for tragedy. And also, his L5-induced motive seems a lot more reasonable: He promised to "save Rika," so he "saves" her by killing the bugs he thinks are inside of her... and thus, ends up killing her as well. THIS genuinely seems like something an L5 Akasaka could be driven to do. It's still a little out there, yes, but this switch-around of the motive makes this whole sequence, as well as Rika's absolutely harrowing reaction to it (remembering all the good times she and Akasaka had together in previous fragments) all the more tragic. I genuinely believe that this is one of the manga's best scenes, and FAR surpasses the anime version, which is basically a black comedy played up for shock. Anyways rant over... GouMeguri manga good......... Still love the video.
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Are we going to get a breakdown of Another at some point. As a study of how paranoia can push people into insanity and then hysteria.
Love the vid. In 25 min in and About 25:35 - Thats because she had le silly school experience for last 100 years xD
Shes literally a 100 year old lady now mentally. She wants something more high class. It actually makes sense😂
Another question.. 36:00 is Satoko actually an incest child? (And so is satoshi?)
I mean her mom seems like the type of a uhh...person... and so does her uncle/dad
1:05:20 - I agree. Its a shame we didnt get at least an episode of Satoko going through major loops and emotionally facing these things to see her become more wicked. Instead its left tl interpertation. While its true that its the intended thing to happen. Its just a shame its not expanded on in actual animation/show
1:07:00 - Actually you know what would be GREAT.
If they made her see ONLY her pwrspective through these 100 year loops.
Like satoko never gets to learn stuff that not once is revealed to her first peraon perspective in those loops...
It would obscure important stuff and make future revelations to het more impactful.
What makes me the most mad about gousotsu is that the premise of Satoko being left behind by her friends due to the passing of time and her futile efforts to keep those relationships in stasis is an absolute gold mine for amazing emotional, bittersweet story telling. Like imagine a story told from her perspective, as her friends began to move and separate away, she tries to prevent it in multiple ways, but fails. So she gets even more desperate and hopeless, then she discovers the fragments and looping power, and tries methods (that aren't murder), but are manipulative in nature somewhat. This continues until it at the end, she confronts her friends about it, and the final stretch of the story is Satoko and her friends coming to terms with the passing of time, growing distance. This is a barebones example of, but it all points to the fact that this great idea was wasted in such a ridiculous manner, its just frustrating tbh
I mean if you take her experience first and how he messes up and gets ditant and the horror of that. And inner monologue would he hartbreaking. Just ti then how how it leads to terrible consequences leading to her codepndency just getting more messed up. Her breaking bit by bit and loosing her grasp.And failing , and failing and reinfocing that loop of.
It really could be an amaing and relatable story mentaly wise.
Why wasnt that framed from satokos inner narrator voice, that could hav solved a lot. Or just how she has relatabl goals and making things the same worse for herelff byisolating herself. Like that relatability makes me sad, in a good way.
And that she is set up to fail. Is alo making hr more likable. The manga story sounds like okabes breakdown in steins gate, th failures to save th person she loves breaking her.
I have one word for you: Shion. If they didn't delete Shion from Gousotsu, we might have had an actual plot (or no plot at all, because, really, there was no point to them making Satoko and Rika go to Santa Lucia in the first place)
So far, the meguri manga is doing this, but I'll reserve further judgement until the manga (especially how they handle teppei) is finished.
At least have her getting bullied at Lucia and baring it for Rika's sake without Rika's knowledge. It would keep the message of talking with your friends and trusting them.
There were lots of scenarios they could of gone with, homework sucks, but not enough to do what she did.
Could you rewrite the story? The simple premise you gave is so much more nuanced.
What bothered me the most about this sequel is how worthless the other club members are in the bigger picture. It made Gou and Sotsu feel much more hollow than it already was. It’s like the creators of this show think the only good parts about Higurashi was the extreme gore and ridiculous faces. I feel like the people who created Star Trek Picard and Ghostbusters Afterlife worked on this show or something. People hated Higurashi Kira, but that 4th episode was more emotionally poignant than the entirety of this sequel for me and the only “sequel” I ever needed was Saikoroshi. Also I agree with Dream Syndrome being a great ED, but nothing with will ever beat Taishou a for me. Thanks for these 6 hours, I admittedly avoided R07 works for a while because of this sequel and this video was so good it made me want to sit down and reread Higurashi.
If it means anything, he might've been busy with that silent hill vn he's been writing, during the shows production.
I'm halfway through and I completely agree, "This isn't Higurashi" was straight up what I said while watching it. What makes me angry is that Gou and Sotsu might be a person's first experience with Higurashi, and It's just not right.
Truthfully this was my first exposure to the series but the second episode actually made me go back and pick up the original Anime. After watching it I ended up grabbing the Sound Novels and now I'm at the point where you and Bess are at. Gou and Sotsu are not great adaptations of the Higurashi universe. It feels like Higurashi directed by a spatter flick director like Rob Zombie which while I like movies like the Devil's Rejects and his Halloween remake, I like them for different reasons than Higurashi.
this was sadly my first experience too. I was really excited watchin week by week until sotsu... really disappointed me lol. I have plans to watch the og since I don't have a of time or energy to look at the vn right now
It was my first, but luckily, I went online and found out about the vn lol
It WAS my first experience with Higurashi, and made me a fan.
I dropped Gou right after finishing 1st episode and first 10 sec of 2nd episode and never gave it a chance. It was obvious where it was going
I'm so glad you decided to write this essay and put the disconnected "Something is up with this retelling" feeling and gradual "this isn't my higurashi canon" feeling as gou and sotsu went on into such eloquent words. The ideas weren't the issue, the execution was.
The very moment Satoko said that their deaths meant nothing was the moment she lost me completely.
@@circle3565 Everything felt forced in the anime. Not only the ending was shit as you said, but the actions of the characters also came out of nowhere. As Bess pointed out, Rina for example felt like an entirely different person from her original counterpart (because she was a gold digger and gave no shits about Rena's situation, going so far as to trying to kill her just to steal her father's money; here, she becomes an "empath" out of nowhere, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't shown that she remembered previous fragments as Teppei did). As for Satoko, her "descent" into madness was handled in probably the most unnatural and comical way possible; it's funny how Passione had a character which was heavily abused before, and instead of focusing on her mental health issues and her codependant relationship with Rika, they just showed it in the most "Joker" way possible: "I hAte StuDyIng HencE whY I trAppEd yOu In ThE lOopS" (which one can argue is not the main reason, but that's what the anime tried to put in the front. Everything else is just a weak attempt at trying to make her more deep than she was shown to be).
Anyway yeah, the "looping" part is mostly used as a plot device in the series. I'm starting to think Ryukishi just brings it up whenever it's convinent, because Hanyuu at one point in the VN questioned herself if she should've just let Rika die the first time because her soul is "nearly gone" by the time we reach Kai's worlds, and Rika herself goes into a moral dilemma at times over it (as seen in Rei when she freaks out about having possibly killed her mother just to go back to her original world). But here? Satoko treats them as if they aren't real to begin with (she more or less said: "after all, the world I choose is the one that exists in the end. Everything else is like a dream"), AND she gets no sort of "karma" for screwing them over.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
@@loren5432 That's why the Manga is better at the moment. And I also think the only point of this continuation is to form a 100% proof that Satoko is connected to Lambdadelta.
They couldn't find satoko so they hired Lambadelta and slapped her in cosplay but she strayed from the plot and all of Sotsu was just a pipe dream.
Please wake up, I am your wife and you've been in a coma since 2012.
That's why you should read meguri it's hundred times better than sotsu
I’m in the Mion section, and you’re very correct. It’s crazy how Mion, who is the most stable character, ends up being a way more sadistic torturer than Shion. You’re very correct.
I see Mion as a pure character like she can’t be affected by Hinamizawa syndrome in any timeline. She’s a good girl at heart
They broke the whole point of her character. She was meant like the only one who is strong enough to always be herself. And only her sis who's way more emotional could get sick and do meakashi-hen,not her. It's so sad they ruined even Mion..
A breathtaking effort, and a truly cathartic experience - for both the highs, and the lowest of lows. The truth of the future often overwrites that of the past, when everyone agrees upon it, but as you've deftly pointed out - so many different truths exist for this series, so many wonderful perspectives that while I may not enjoy all of them, is such a blessing in its own right.
Because I dared to care enough about this story to concern myself with them in the first place. Higurashi has, and will continue to be instrumentally important to my life, and despite my hang-ups with these shows, it has only further proven why that is the case, and you explained perfectly why that is. Rest well, you've earned the victory lap several times over. And be proud of the work you've done, because presumptuous as it may sound to say, I think it's some of the best out there. Thank you.
Thank you so much Marcie!!! 🥲
2 fantastic content creators supporting each other. We love to see it
@@_bess YO!!! A trailer dropped for the silent hill f and you NEED to see who’s working on the story!
Okay I knew this was gonna be a lengthy video judging by how long it's been in the works but six hours? I can't imagine all the effort that's been put into this, thank you for the amazing content and also for keeping GouSotsu alive almost singlehandedly 😭
I know right? Only six hours? I expected it to be way longer.
“Lex Fridman is dangerous” 18 min inspirational video on RUclips ends w the poem “if” by R Kipling
Shame the hype fucking died after all of 15 seconds.
Regardless of how I feel about this series, I am thankful to it for giving us the God's Syndrome ending. I love seeing basically every Higurashi fan agreeing that it is the perfect ending for Higurashi, from the song itself, the lyrics, and the visuals.
But as for the series, I wrote out two long paragraphs but ultimately, my feelings can just be summed up with: disappointed. You said everything I'd want to say. While the adaptions of the original story in the question arcs gave the impression that this series was being handled by people that knew and understood it, as it progressed, it felt more and more like it... wasn't. Like the people in charge just... didn't understand Higurashi. I noticed it from the second arc; it immediately stood out to me as wrong that all of the circumstances with the doll, Mion, and Shion would occur the exact same way given the major change in Keiichi giving Mion the doll. As it went on, it just kept getting worse. The careful mystery elements of the original series seemed lost, replaced instead with scenes for shock value. Motifs and themes of mental illness seemed thrown out (such as Satoko suddenly cured from a disease that was always seen as an analogy for mental illness). Characterization was lost and opportunities wasted. It was such an interesting story with so much potential, but it all felt fumbled. Mion having an arc but getting nothing from it, Satoko becoming a villain with no personality or any of her wonderful characterization, the amount of graphic, needless violence, the lack of an actual mystery, I could go on. Higurashi is often misunderstood by a lot of casual viewers of the original anime, and it kind of feels like Gou/Sotsu was made based on those misunderstandings rather than a clear knowledge of the original story and all of its important themes, messages, and moments.
personally I think if you want a VN experience you read a VN. An anime by nature of the medium will always be a watered down form of the VN source material. I liked Gou and Sotsu I think people were just expecting something different from it and when they didn't get what they wanted they got strangely bitter. It an anime for a frickin 50 year old Visual Novel on the Dendy continuing where the games left off.
I'll put it this way the mainline games were best of the best and really the core experience of Higurashi. Anything that splinters off from the original will never be the original and sometimes that means Higurishi When They Plinko.
Gou and Sotsu rocked and it was just nice to be back home for 2 seasons of great anime.
@@sparklesparklesparkle6318 I never brought up the VN though. I think that, even if they aren't perfect, the adaptions of the original story in the 2006 anime and the manga still do a good job of portraying the core of Higurashi and its most important themes and messages. That shows that Higurashi doesn't need to be a VN in order to be great. Obviously yes, a 100 hour long VN is going to be able to deliver a lot more than a 25 hour anime series, but there was still a lot more that Gou/Sotsu could have done with its time, which you can see in the changes made to the (better) manga adaption. Instead, it feels like it wasted a lot of time on gratuitous gore and recapping/repeating scenes from the original series or the question arcs. The only expectations I had going into it were, I expected it to keep the core themes, values, and mystery elements from the original series. I wasn't expecting the same depth that a whole VN could give, but I wanted at least that, and I think that's fair considering it's a sequel to that series. Of course anyone going into it will have the original series on their mind. Whatever the story was, that's all I wanted, but it just didn't deliver.
You're definitely missing the mark on a lot of this. The story elements with Mi/Shi being similar despite Keiichi making the proper decision with the doll is nothing new, there are thousands and thousands of fragments and we only see a few dozen of them throughout the entire series it's a given that there will be those that are very similar but still have differences. Also, this is a very obvious change because in Sotsu we learn that Satoko is giving people lethal injections and making them crazy which explains this away easily.
Gou was completely full of mystery; we finally see the characters get their good ending but then strangely Rika is back in the fragment loop again with all the chaos and well paced new story unfolding. I mean c'mon it's hard to have a deeper mystery than the original when by this point the viewer should already have an in depth understanding of the world and how it works lol. As for Sotsu it's the answer arc so of course there isn't any mystery.
Towards the end of the original we learned that the widespread mental illness was Hinamizawa Syndrome and Dr. Irie had finally found a way to cure the villagers (with Satoko actually being the on screen plot vehicle for Irie to explain it to us).
Mion's arc was essentially fake and manufactured by Satoko giving her the needle and I feel like it was meant to be thought provoking because Mion was the only main cast member (aside from Rika obviously) who had never been affected by the crazy syndrome up until this point in the story. But on some level I agree that it was hollow because Satoko just guns her down in the end.
Satoko has plenty of personality as the villain. She wanted a redo on the events leading up to going to her private school so things could go back to how they were and when Eua gives that to her she slowly descends into madness due to the unconfirmed number of years she spent playing around in fragments. It's even possible she spent longer in there than Rika (100 years) because she took the time to at least gloss over all of Rika's failed attempts in addition to all the time she spent on her own attempts. The amount of time she spent bathed in blood would fracture anyone's mind and by extension it separated the pure hearted Satoko from the witch Satoko. Her motives were always clear, be with Rika forever, but sadly she became more jaded and twisted over time.
I'm genuinely surprised that while encompassing all of your primary issues with the story you didn't have anything to say about the Sotsu finale. By properly absorbing all the information there's so much that can be understood and appreciated on deeper levels but that Shounen style super fight at the end just wasn't it lol it was totally out of the blue and didn't fit whatsoever. The chicken fight with Rika and Satoko passing through many fragments before it got weird was pretty cool though, I liked that part.
@@Tenshiyo In regards to the finale, Bess describes my feelings quite well. It's a splatter-fest that reduces the core themes and values of the original series to a bloody spectacle in which neither of them learn anything and many of their character arcs from the original series are undone. Everything Bess says is exactly how I feel, so I'd just watch the section on Kagurashi to get the gist.
The Mion/Shion elements being exactly the same despite Keiichi giving Mion the doll is, in my opinion, very unlikely. We see in the original series how relieved Rika is when Keiichi gives Mion the doll, because it means the events of Watanagashi are avoided. That gives a sense of stability with this factor, that the doll is a catalyst for their behaviors. If Mion gets the doll, she won't cry to Rena and Shion about Keiichi not seeing her as a girl and not giving it to her; she won't feel regret at having not been more "girly" from the beginning; she won't get advice from Shion to act more girly. So, why does she still pretend to be Shion to get away with acting more feminine? If Keiichi gives her the doll, she won't talk to Shion about him in the same way; Shion won't get the same kind of jealousy; so, why does she still treat Keiichi and Mion exactly the same? The pieces just don't line up for their behaviors. Maybe it can be similar, but it doesn't make sense for it to happen the *exact* same way. Not to mention, this series gave them an opportunity to show us new stories. How cool would it have been to have a focus on Mion and Keiichi's relationship with the change of her giving him the doll? Or how would Shion's feelings differ? How would Keiichi and Shion meet if not through her pretending to be Mion out of jealousy? Etc. etc.
The issue with Gou's mystery is that they reveal too much in the second episode. As soon as it's revealed that this is a sequel, we already know to expect something different. But, there is still the mystery of who is making Rika loop again and why (though, it should be pointed out that many fans deduced it was Satoko very early on, so it wasn't a very difficult mystery to solve). The issue then is that the mystery is solved by the end of Gou: we know Satoko is behind it, we know her feelings, and we know how she's doing it. From that, the answer arcs of Sotsu feel kind of pointless because they aren't actually answering anything. So, they would have been worth it if they could have gone deeper into the characters at the very least but, again, they didn't. It's especially apparent with Mion, but this is the case with all of the characters, tbh.
And finally, I have to disagree about Satoko's personality. Satoko in the original goes through an amazing character arc, and a large part of it is thanks to her friends. As pointed out in this video, she says herself that she would have turned out like Takano had it not been for them. Yes, looping is going to affect her. The issue, though, is that we never get much from her beyond her watching gleefully as the people that were the most important in her life are murdered again and again and again. The same people she thanked for getting her to that point, she not only kills but does so happily. Even with how her mind has changed due to the looping, there's no nuance or depth. The most we get is when the "true" Satoko fights the "witch" Satoko, which was very anti-climactic. And in the end, all of the blame gets shifted over to Eua and Satoko reasserts that she was right to do everything she did in order to get Rika to apologize. Again, it's pointed out in this video, but what about her other friendships? She is closest with Rika, but the other club members are also very important to her but, again, she's willing to sacrifice them and do so with a tsundere-esque smile of enjoyment on her face. I'm not saying that she can't be the villain, I actually quite like it. But it would have been nice to see more depth to her feelings, guilt, regret, but ultimate choice to continue down the path she's embarked.
I really enjoyed all the OP’s and ED’s and still listen to them on occasion. I feel like excellent music and very flashy gore(which I will admit I am a fan of and Goutsu scratched that itch in me) we’re the only things worth caring about. The story and the way (most) characters were mishandled is a huge disappointment. The weird thing is, I didn’t even hate Goutsu while I was watching it. It was after it ended and I reflected on it for a few days. So many missed opportunities.
"Satoko is a princess type character that always in need to be saved"
I feel the whole GouSotsu Satoko 60% won't be happen if those edgy higurashi "fans" didn't hate her too much for being a realistic 10 years old child and not a psycho like Rena or Shion. That statement by Ryukishi alone is how higurashi fanbase view her, an annoying brat and not as a girl who learns how to getting more less dependent and learn to defends herself.
Seriously, back then a lot people were rooting for Shion torturing Satoko because they hate her that much and Rika chair thing too.
Satoko really deserved better, heck i don't even know Umineko that much yet Lambdadelta deserves a good backround too... Bernkastel and Rika's connection is brilliant, then why Satoko and Lambda is not?
I really hate the "Satoko = damsel in distress" narrative because. That's. Straight up not true.
She is the one who saves herself from her uncle's abuse in Minagoroshi - the entire message being that it's her OWN choice to make. I never really saw her lacking agency - _she was just 10 years old!!_ what was she even supposed to do??
I wanted to address your statement that Rika's motivation for specifically attending st. Lucia was unaddressed.
It's funny because I too, could not find a great explanation until I heard you mention "Rika" and "maturing" in the same sentence.
St. Lucia is a perfect academy for Rika in the sense that it will help propel her into adulthood faster than most other schools.
Of course there are other prestigious schools around, but Rika has a very limited scope on what's outside of Hinamizawa, so it was only natural for her to first think of St. Lucia.
On top of this, just seeing a friend go to a specific school immediately puts it above the rest that are of similar caliber.
This is especially true considering Shion does have a sense of maturity and adulthood which adds merit to St. Lucia as a whole as well.
It's a very basic explanation, but one that makes enough sense for me not to put Rika's specific choice into question.
I had the feeling they just took St. Lucia because it was already a place that was mentioned in the WTC series (as Shion and Ange visited it).
Or you know... The fact that Rika's mentally an old lady at this point, so she wants to go to a prestigious, high-class school that will truly challenge her; full of people that have matured beyond their typical age group.
Bess may be good at digging up old Higurashi elements, but she's seemingly disinterested in grasping the story's subtext sometimes. In that sense, she rejects change the same way Satoko does.
@@WackaMei sorry lol I know this is like a whole year later but this is such a baffling comment I couldn't keep my trap shut. Rika is by no means 'mentally an old lady' just because of the loops. A century of the same set of experiences bookended by trauma and arrested development does not suddenly make one an adult. Not only that but Saikoroshi explicitly points out that part of Rika's journey towards healing involves stepping back into her life as the ten year old Rika and finding joy in that life again, living and finally growing and maturing as a result.
Even if 'Rika is an old lady, therefore etc etc' *was* the story's POV though, that still doesn't take away from Bess's point that this aspect of Rika's motivations is so poorly explained to the audience as to be completely absent from the text. This would be bad enough given that it's her primary motivation across Satokowashi's flashback arcs but this is also supposedly a 'newcomer friendly' Higurashi anime and thus, the story is written in at least some capacity for an audience who doesn't have the prior knowledge to fill in this aspect of Rika's character for themselves.
@@phaineinTV Hi henlo.
Rika, in both the VN and the animated works has her outer persona and her inner self. Her inner self is the nihilistic, wine-chugging disinterested sounding girl who's seen her friends die over and over and over and over.
It's true that she decides to give living as a 10 year old another chance, but what Ryukishi shows us in GouSotsu is that life isn't really that simple. With Mion and Shion studying elsewhere and life in Hinamizawa being like a loop in of itself, Rika wants to try using the knowledge and experience she gained these 100 years in a more mature setting, alongside Satoko. However, while Satoko wanted to be with Rika for emotional security, Rika wanted Satoko to come simply because she associated life enjoyment with Satoko's presence - something that kept her going, back in Hinamizawa.
To claim Rika doesn't mentally grow at all during these 100 years is ludicrous. It's evident in the text itself, where the prime visual and direct indicator of a development of taste/mentality comes through whenever she enjoys a cup of wine. A child's tastebuds are not accustomed to alcohol, and like with olives they usually reject it as sour and disgusting. But with time, Rika has grown to like alcohol.
Same goes with mentality: at one point, she believed in miracles. She tried her hardest but eventually just gave up. Even accepted brutal deaths over and over without as much as flinching. How can a 'child in arrested development' do that? They can't. The only thing that roused her from her stupor and disinterested state was Keiichi's surprise appearance. His presence gave her hope again, and managed to change her mentality once more. But even in the end of the end, that inner, haunted voice remains. Rika is still the character who's set to (in some way) become Bernkastel. That can't ever be omitted from the story of Higurashi, and thus this tale bridges that gap.
GouSotsu is not a newcomer-friendly anime. Sure, the basic story is one that theoretically can be sleuthed out by a new viewer, but it's written primarily for those who are already invested in the franchise. That's why most of the 'mysteries' in Sotsu are reversals or bolstered by red herrings: we presumed the killings would be reasoned the same way as they once were, but in reality something else was afloat.
I appreciate your response, but sadly I don't think you've taken enough of the story's context or subtext into account to properly demean the show. I respectfully agree to disagree on your conclusion.
Okok there it is. One of the hardest parts in healing from trauma, is having to accept that your abusers arent sometimes sweet angels and sometimes evil monsters, but just one single person capable of both. A person that can love you deeply and still hurt you as deep. I think higurashi is masterful in conveying this concept and how hard it is to accept and understand. Thats why having satoko and witchoko be two separate entities sucks so much. Maybe the person who has written it like that doesn't have much first hand experience with the concept, or is still struggling with it, and instead chose to go down the mental-illness-quirky road. Bluh!
It kind of felt like a true internal struggle between what remained of Satokos better nature and her corrupted self -with the different personalities being metaphorical
@@draconicfeline6177that could've been conveyed better.
4:23:00 THIS! It really bothered me! They kept reminding Satoko (and us, the viewers) that if Satoko messes up and dies before Rika, then she will end up in a world without her. So then seeing the world where Keiichi goes super violent in Angel Mort right before the world where Satoko seems absolutely desperate and crying as she tortures Rika - I was SURE that this was the sign for set up and pay off! Like Satoko finally messed up because she was too arrogant, she suffered through so many Rika-less worlds (which was probably really entertaining for Eua to see) and now that she finally sees Rika again, she's desperate to make that world hell for her so she will give up. I felt that that made a lot of sense. And I shared my theories with my husband every week while it was airing. But that set up never went anywhere 😶 my disappointed was (and still is) immeasurable.
Was your day ruined as well?
@@Takejiro24 bet
This describes my feelings for Sotsugou as a whole. All style with little to no substance. This series made me hate Satoko more than any character in fiction given the way they wrote her.
@@coopigeon619 Same. If the writers' intention was to make Satoko sympathetic, they thoroughly failed. I know, i know "without love it can't be seen" and shit like that, but I genuinely hoped some fucked up consequence would bite her in the ass the more I watched GouSotsu with the way she's written.
It was an unfired Chekov's gun and I don't appreciate that, even if they always meant it as misdirection.
Man, the way this was handled was just...not good. I always liked Satoko's character and despite a lot of fans really disliking her (mostly because she - well, acted like an actual child would be expected to act in many situations), I really enjoyed her arcs in the first anime and the visual novels. Makes me sad to see her character go so incredibly far downhill in Gou and Sotsu.
The thing that gets to me the most is how absolutely callous Satoko is toward torturing and killing her friends and seeing the countless loops Rika suffered through. It just does not make sense to me for Satoko to suddenly not care about her friends in a genuine manner and suddenly become the walking epitomr of a stereotypical Yandere. There's no way that what she went through at St Lucia two times was enough to make her discard anything but obssession. Not enough to where she'd not care about Rika going through a CENTURY of suffering.
I do think I will give Meguri a shot though as what you shared with us here makes it clear they handled this SO much better. The torment Eua puts Satoko through in so many worlds works so much better as it makes Satoko break down slowly and destroys her emotionally, slowly causing her to go insane which explains her single-minded obssession and callousness toward everyone dying so much more reasonable.
The way that I saw it, it was like Satoko was watching television. The actors LOOK like your friends, but you are completely removed from their suffering. Even the impact of events changed within the “episodes” will just get negated by the next one. So why should she care? Why should she care about the “character” Rika going through death after death?
Of course, this was me huffing heavy ass doses of copium, but it was the only justification that I could come up with that allowed me to watch the series all the way through.
@@TheBeastBandit Even if you use that justification, there's still the fact that she sees the very real effect on Rika when she legitimately considers and even attempts suicide via the weapon Hanyuu shows her. She knows it's real, she just doesn't care. Sure, she tries to take and hide the weapon, but doesn't even stop to think "oh my god, I'm killing her." Like Jesus, some Yanderes care more about their victims than Satoko seems to care about Rika.
Then, there's the fact that she kills her friends herself. It's a much more real and horrific experience to kill someone with your own two hands than to watch it happen. That being said, maybe you could blame it on the whole Witch thing being an apparent split personality, I dunno. I got disgusted and quit watching the series when I realized how badly it butchers Satoko as a character, so I admittedly did not finish the show.
@@MokohiChan It's a little weird how it portrays it. It's implied that the Satoko we see doing all the bad shit is some kind of alternate personality that's manifested as a result of doing all these loops. She shuts away the old Satoko and just goes off to be an absolute menace. Only at the end does she basically say "Aight, I'll let you have your body back now" and bring the old Satoko back. It's implied that that whilst the Satoko doing this stuff is her, in a sense, it's also not her. It's this "Witch" identity which has manifested due to the loop power.
It doesn't explain enough of it, but from what I can take from it, it fits with the story's theme and message of not being too attached to our own perspectives or identities, and that trying to create stable, consistent individual identities will only cause you to lose yourself in your own ego and delusions. That the "self" is a delusion.
@@slothrop9345Well, the problem there is that in what we are SHOWN, the Witch only takes over Satoko during the point where she kills Teppei. Yes, her actions become much MORE heinous after that point, but they had already been pretty deranged up to that point. So, that doesn't explain Satoko's 180 prior to the Witch taking over.
sotsu was really what killed off gous high potential
If Bess thinks I'm sitting through a 6 hour video.... she's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I bet I'm going to wish it was 8 hours when I'm finished. An analyst really giving themselves the time to get all their thoughts and feelings in order and to convey them in the best way possible is crucial for the healthiest art discussion. I know you had some trepidation about taking the long break to make this video, but I'm 100% certain it was worth it. You've earned your community's trust. Three cheers for this video!
the explanation of satoko's struggle in the meguri manga was really emotionally poignant, and the personal relation struck a bit of a chord with me too. not the exact situation, but the feelings satoko must have felt were well-envoked. i'm only an hour and 30 minutes in, but just like your other videos, this is a delight to watch
Those feelings are so relatable, honestly. That feeling of trying so hard and still feeling apart from others, alone. You can just feel the emotion in those panels
I hadn't been keeping up with Meguri because I had been so burned by GouSotsu but just the fact that Shion is there and gets to comment on St Lucia has sold me on it. It's such a small sticking point but the animes refusal to let Shion comment on their choice of that school or even appear is what made me first give up on it. I could never believe that Shion would willingly let Rika and especially Satoko attend the school that traumatized her so much without warning them first
My loudest complaint during a lot of the series was WHERE THE HELL IS SHION?!
I'm really glad that you also talked about the manga version of Gou and Meguri as well. Both are really interesting and I feel like not enough people talk about them.
sometimes i think Sotsu should have been a Movie or an OVA series, not another fully season retelling touching all previous plotlines
At least then the production staff wouldn't have been overworked.
I return to this essay every few months, it's by far my favorite video essay and media analysis I've seen. It continues to inspire me in my own creative work and it moves me so much to be reminded of both the richness of Higurashi and your passion for it. Just letting ya know 👍
I love Meguri, it helps me get rid of the bad taste that Gou and sotsu leave behind.
Regarding Mion going crazy, I don't see it as bad, because Mion, no matter how wonderful person she is, is still a human being with weaknesses that if they are exploited enough, they could break her, like everyone else.
But here it is very forced, because it was literally forced by the syndrome serum.
Higurashi Mei is a very exploited gatcha, although it has some good things. I want to rescue a story where Mion goes crazy. I believe that this can only happen in exceptional timelines, since Mion could only develop the disease under extreme and unlikely situations.
In the story, Keiichi and Shion enter into the Saiguden, but they are caught. Mion is aware that the families are arguing and everyone expects some hard punishment, so Mion is very afraid for Kei-chan and Shion, the problems only get worse when Mion confronts her sister in an argument and She comes to the conclusion that all this disaster is her own fault.
Because:
-Mion hid Hinamizawa's dark side from Keiichi so as not to give him a bad impression, leaving him vulnerable to making a fatal mistake, exactly what happened.
-Mion deep down knew that her sister still feared and deeply mistrusted the Sonozakis, but she did nothing to reassure her... now with the deaths of Tomitake and Takano it is too late, Shion even disowns Mion and is about to leave along the Meakashi-hen route.
Seeing all this, Mion's mental health goes out the window.
She is terrified for the lives of her sister and Keiichi's... but it doesn't matter, she *resolves* that she will protect them, *no matter what*
And so we lost her...
It's a perfectly believable story in my opinion, it's a shame it doesn't have a complete arc.
19:08 I really appreciate you going into this because I feel like the Gou/Sotsu animes made the fans feel like their unhealthy friendship was one sided and that it was just Satoko that's gone "full yandere" when the manga shows that Rika's just as emotionally dependent on Satoko.
Is there a Sotsu manga, or do you mean Meguri?
@@usmansubhani7482 Meguri is essentially the Gou/Sotsu manga. It imo fixes or patches quite a few of the flaws in the anime. i recommend a read.
@@DarkVideogamerthat's funny, I'm calling meguri gou-sotsu 2.0 patch edition now😆.
When you spoke about your own school experiences and how you so badly wanted to fit in, I started to cry. I had the exact same issue, except it was when I went to graduate school. I ultimately had failed out after struggling with grades, my mental health, and the intense pressure of the work. I resonated with that so much. Thank you for sharing. This is a wonderful breakdown video.
You really were right about Gou and Sotsu being a community experience. I would talk with my friends on discord after every episode that came out and we’d analyze the scenes, give our theories, and wonder how the full thing would turn out. So often we ascribed more meaning than there really was, how this was actually a trick, we thought really hard lmao
And during the agonizing episodes of Sotsu we talked about the messages of Higurashi as a whole, how it’s about communication and trust and forgiveness, and these episodes didn’t match any of those. You’re right, even with all the problems I had with the show, it still somehow elevated my love for the series
It’s wasn’t just a community experience but also a community disappointment
I'd also add that the movie Everything Everywhere All at Once did basically everything Gou/Sotsu attempted to do and more.
just wanted to say as I was watching - your discussion of how badly let down you felt by Mion in Wataakashi really resonated with me. I haven't gotten to your discussion of Tatariakashi yet but as someone who deeply empathized with and related to Satoko's experiences with abuse, I felt the same mixture of shock and betrayal as I watched that arc play out and had to drop Sotsu for several weeks because it so badly upset me. Hearing someone else express those same feelings and put them into words really validated those feelings and it was super cathartic to hear you say it in the words I've been struggling to find since Sotsu aired.
This video is already fantastic (I'm only halfway through currently lol) but that part in particular really struck a chord with me and I just wanted to let you know how grateful I was for its inclusion.
I really liked this behemoth of a video. I particularly liked how you criticize gou/sotsu in good faith. Not only do you think about think about what the creators intended you also explain why you think it didn't work. You don't see that very often in media analysis. It really showed how much you cared for higurashi and how you felt gou/sotsu didn't get across the message that ryukishi07 intended for the series and that in spite of that it still have a right to exist. Keep making good shit
I'm really glad that my intent came across, thank you!
I think that part of what made the original Higurashi so great is that it had an underlying social message. And the characters were "normal" people in a lot of ways (until the end). The characters growth and development of their relationships within specific cultural/political eras (which necessarily mediate all human relations) is what made them come alive and feel real- it's why characters like Mion and Shion (my favorite character) are so extraordinary. But now with this sequel, the story and concepts have become so abstract that they are no longer rooted in any meaningful material/social context. It becomes a purely theoretical exploration of "idealized" forms of relationships between godlike beings, who are much more special than the rest of humanity. These characters don't feel real to me anymore (though it could very well be that I personally lack the specific past experiences/background to relate to them). Overall, I really think that human relationships cannot be explored so abstractly. For instance, Satoko and Rika's relationship in the initial St. Lucia segment (especially manga) seems so much more poignant than a lot of what came after.
So I struggle to find significant meaning in this Higurashi sequel. There is emotion, to be sure. But is there socially useful meaning? It is art, yes. But is it helpful art in that it truly highlights or clarifies something about our own reality? I think it obscures more than it clarifies.
I think the above rant is just me venting really. I think really I'm just sad because the original Higurashi genuinely changed my life. and it's like, will this sequel actually be able to do that for anyone? It's upsetting tbh, and I'm not 100% why
I disagree, the whole sequel is about change and fading out......
Thank you so much for this, from the bottom of my heart. I've cried at your essays before, your insight into characters and the human emotions that we receive from them has moved me quite a few times, but this is the first time I've flat out sobbed. In the section near the end where you revisit your initial question and Ryukishi's own relationship to his work, I was really overcome with the beautiful points you made about art and relationships. In particular, your line about relationships being a decision to see what you could create together that you couldn't alone really resonated with me.
I was never a fan of Gou or Sotsu from the start because I too was afraid of the idea that the "perfect" ending would be shattered, but now I similarly can appreciate Gou and Sotsu's existence for how much they've continued Higurashi's legacy and revitalized a community of fans who have so much love to share with this story and each other. It's because of Gou and Sotsu that I revisited Higurashi after nearly a decade, it's why I rewatched the anime and read the manga for the first time last year, and it's why I stumbled across your videos.
This post mortem allowed me to see Gou and Sotsu in a new light and appreciate, maybe for the first time, the parts that were entirely successful and meaningful. It's been hard for me to acknowledge those pieces when I have such a negative impression of the show as a whole, but particularly your commentary on Nekodamashi and its exploration into Rika's perspective definitely made me reassess what I had missed the first go around. I always appreciate hearing about Saikoroshi and Yoigoshi from you as well, I've read the manga for both but your in depth and passionate commentary on what they say about the characters always delivers an incredibly strong impact, as though I was reading them again for the first time.
This was an absolutely beautiful video, and incredibly cathartic to watch. Outside of that, your production quality is something I deeply appreciate, and for most of the video I was doing nothing but sitting and watching and listening with undivided attention. You clearly have so much love for this series and so much insight into the themes and emotions it expresses that your videos never have a dull moment. Everything you put out is powerful and I am so grateful that you share your work with us! I can't imagine what a massive undertaking this was, but it was well worth the wait and I hope it wasn't too strenuous to create. I'll definitely be revisiting this one in the future!
Thank you so, so much for watching and for your lovely comment.
the most perplexing thing that it wasn't even rushed, the Gou anime was DELAYED for a year or so by the pandemic, i wonder what they did in those extra times
Endured the pandemic I guess
Well, fucking nothing because they couldn't do anything, Japan completely shut down during COVID.
The production could've been screwed over by COVID for all we know.
I'm glad you can look back on the early days of Gou and the fandom interaction with fondness, I wish I could say the same. Sotsu was so rancid it damaged my love for a franchise that I thought was unshakable, Higurashi was one of the first anime I ever watched while knowing what anime was, and I can't even look at the other entries in the WTC series quite the same way anymore. And I had very high hopes. I loved Gou, and I defended Gou to it's detractors, even during the divisive Satokowashi arc. It and Nekodamashi were messy in some regards, but they were genuinely compelling and they seemed to me that they were setting up a genuinely nuanced conflict between Satoko and Rika, and that their supposedly important and dear friends would play a pivotal and meaningful role in the resolution of the story, and would not merely just serve as mere puppets in the villain's plan, and while the other damashi arcs on their own weren't *super* interesting, I had faith that we would get satisfying and interesting answers. Because no way would it just be Satoko doing essentially the exact same thing for 3 arcs in a row with no development or self-reflection at all (save for the human and witch split in Tatari but seeing as how that basically ceases to matter after it happens, I'm inclined to ignore that). No way would they actually just double down on her being a cartoonishly evil supervillain to the point where she literally says she has no regrets at the end of it all. That would be a spit in the face, surely.
Hell, I can't even think about SatoRika as a ship anymore without giving myself a headache. What a joke.
How do you make Villain Satoko boring?????? That takes a special level of fucking up.
Meguri definitely seems like it'll improve on some of what the original failed in, but to what degree, I'm not sure. It's still got it's issues, but at least it's competent?
Here are list of Satoko's crimes:
Gaslighting Rika
Injecting Rena
Illegally buying Firearms
Shooting Mion
and ROLLING AROUND IN THE MUD
You're honor, I rest my case
But... she hates studying! So her actions must be justified!
And we can adding trolling Keiichi with the intention to kill him... but yes hes not dead so its forgiven...? Because Satoko dont want maths exe...
Attempted murder against keichi and tepei, and many murders for rika
What about injecting Mion and Ooishi?
Oh yeah, and she also frew up at school. Yuck!
My thing about Gou and Sotsu is that as good as some ideas were, the set up with Mion protecting Keiichi as her paranoia for something, the flip flop for Satoko trusting Teppei's change, Rika discovering Satoko as a looper, I think it ruined the character of Satoko for me. I went from watching the original to Gou and Sotsu to rewatching the original again with a friend to introduce them to the series and I found with great distaste what Satoko would become. I think it really bitterly ruined her characterizations, especially when in Kai, as Rika is hesitant to tell her friends, we have a version of Satoko that is picking up vague pieces to keep Rika safe, setting up traps, calling anonymous tips to Ooishi to keep Rika safe and in the end, Satoko mourns as she finds her plan has failed and Rika is, unfortunately, sacrificed.
I found myself seeing that Satoko, and then seeing the one in Gou and Sotsu just as complete opposites. If Satoko looped, she would've seen how she was in each of her fragments and how that version of herself in particular was. Satoko was smart, cunning and playful, she loved Rika and yes, there could be a toxic element if you want to elaborate on it but she also knew she wanted Rika safe and happy, no matter what. Every time she found Rika dead, she freaked out and tried to keep herself safe on top of it, to stay brave, even when her friend was gone. (I.e. Shion torturing her, mistaking Keiichi as the killer when he was saving her from Teppei)
I just. I don't think she would ever find joy in killing Rika, in seeing her suffer. And the thing about Gou and Sotsu is that they really tend to ruin the Satoko I knew and had affection for. They chose to just make her this person who was willing to sacrifice everything and everyone for the sake of what?
Satoko was never truly fleshed out for that to be her dream, to stay in Hinamzawa, and I guess you could say it's the most logical due to Satoshi coming back, I would also argue that she also has accepted that he won't and is willing to move on, much like grief does with a loved on. You have episodes of it, wishing they were here, wanting them to see how you've grown, seeking their advice or something but then you gradually move from that, focusing on the people you really have, like your friends and other loved ones you're surrounded by. And it's why I just don't think I understand. I never saw Satoko staying in Hinamzawa her whole life, nor did I Rika but I also didn't think I knew where they go either after the events wrapped up in Kai and Rei. It was just them with everyone together, whether they move on, they still have one another. They still have the family unit, no matter what happens. And I thought that was the point, the "happy ending" that just moves forward as Rika is able to live her life, no matter the direction, with her friends to the very end. Perhaps it's because it's in Rika's perspective, it's selfish but with how each character had their arc, their firm beliefs that they would never abandon their friends, no matter what bad they did or tragically their life went down, it just seemed weird that Satoko would just. Abandon that.
Whenever I see the Sotsu theme song, the eyes of the friends shadowed and grinning, helping Satoko up, I always thought it was foreshadowing of like. Maybe they'll catch on to what Satoko is doing to them, maybe she's tormented of using them, find some sort of thing to keep Satoko away from Rika but instead, they were just puppets. And it makes me sad to see such potential be wasted, to reimagine one character, like Rina for example, but then completely ruin another, like Mion or Satoko.
This video really highlights a lot of that, and I really appreciate it. I hope my comment isn't too long, it feels like an add on to what Bess is trying to convey but there was so much for Sotsu and Gou, and they lost it the moment they forgot what Higurashi was, and decided that Satoko was the one to try and kill it for good.
Execution is such a vital thing when telling a story. An authors intent can be lost if it’s execution is handled poorly. Because of how Satoko’s breakdown was portrayed it was incredibly difficult to sympathize with her. Even as long time fan I was struggling so much that I couldn’t watch sotsu anymore. It was if I was watching any other anime villain or antagonist and not a Higurashi one. Clearly the intention was lost in the anime. And hearing about how the manga did it justice is bittersweet. I’m an hour and a half in and I’m planning on sticking till the end.
That part where Ryukishi was talking about tsumihoroboshi hit so fucking hard, i hope he learns from gousotsu's criticisms but also understands how much the community loves his work
@Vexyricon 5:45:14
Sotsu left a really bad taste for me, enough to lessen my attachment to the series and reconsider how much I liked it in the first place (despite being a die-hard fan for over a decade). I'm only an hour and forty minutes into your video, but this analysis of why Sotsu fell so short, and how in-line with the original series Meguri is makes me want to dive back in. To this day I don't know of another franchise that can make the reader empathize with its characters on the level that When They Cry does.
real asf. after rewatching sotsu i started to realize why people hated it so much because wow, satokos character was handled horribly
I like Higurashi and Umineko to the point I wouldn’t dare watch GouSotsu.
I'm at the 3:00:00 ish mark of the video, and I can say I wholeheartedly agree. one of the things that drew me to higurashi and umineko (with umineko for me being one of the top stories I have ever read) is the way it doesn't shy away from trauma, but also how it treats it so very respectfully, even when the character in question is objectively committing awful acts. so, I was really excited for an exploration of satoko's trauma. however, seeing the way it was announced I was...cautious. I didn't watch it, and instead kept an eye out on the fandom, looking for signs. it was about this point I decided I was not going to watch it. I haven't, and I'm glad to watch this 6 hour explanation of why my gut feeling was right XD
I’m just happy that this series is finally getting proper analysis. You do a phenomenal job, Bess. Honestly, I felt most engaged when you talked about your experiences and understanding of the story (which you did amazing at by the way). This is really, possibly the top-tier analysis of the entire Higurashi series itself, not just Gou and Sotsu. Every talking point was expanded on, and I enjoyed this more than actually watching Gou and Sotsu, because you reminded me of exactly why I LOVED the series itself. It’s fantastic, and it makes me want to start it all over again. Thank you so much for your hard work! With this, and all your other videos, you’re giving the series the passionate analysis and celebration that it deserves!
Bess!! You are a lifesaver!! You released this on the morning I'm due to fly from New Zealand to Germany, a journey of about 30 hours in total, and I have been looking forward to this video for MONTHS now. I literally love you.
love how satoko gradually ceased to be a character in sotsu and was just an evil caricature until she decided to stop being evil
not because she realized the error of her ways or because she recognized the unhealthy parts of her behavior, but because she ultimately got the validation from rika that she wanted
no one learned anything and nothing changed
storytelling!
also a big fan of the show pretending saikoroshi didn't happen (not really!) just because there's a lot that doesn't make sense if that arc actually happened in this continuity
great video tho! you really did rip this show to shreds. good thing you were doing this and not me, i would've maybe gotten a little harsher than necessary lol
Hanyuu in Saikoroshi: "I should have never saved your life Rika, It was bad for your humanity. Thanks for learning that lesson. I will never rewind time for you again, so take care of your precious life. Bye forever."
Hanyuu in Gou/Sotsu: "So I started looping"
I absolutely adore this video to bits. This is my third watch through since it came out. The way you lovingly tear into the series and put it back together with so much care and understanding is something truly admirable and a delight to sit through.
I didn't know about Ryukishi's opinion on how the show turned out to be, but now that you've mentioned it, I think he is a very strong creator. He seems to be the sort of flexible, empathic and sensible person. By allowing the company Passion to make their own version of the story, he let "his" characters develop in new ways. I think this is an example of a healthy relationship, with the fans, with the company and ultimately with the characters.
As for the future of the "When they cry", I can't wait to see what will come next. I am sure that Satoko will go through her atonement journey. That will certainly be interesting.
All the talk about relationships and just the meaning of healthy relationships really hit hard for me throughout the course of this video and honestly got me pretty emotional at times applying it to things I'm currently dealing with regarding those. I loved this video because of that, and having only seen the original anime along with gou and sotsu, this made me go ahead and grab all the visual novels on steam, so I'm excited to get to them soon.
Just now reaching the end and this video is so great. I continued to think that the main problem of Satokowashi-hen and Sotsu is how they define "answer-arc" as just a mean of "yeah, she injected this and that's why this arc happened" but it's more than that. How unsatisfying solving the mystery feels aside, the injection is an active object that directly kills the characters personality from the previous series, and as such, just becomes walking plot-devices to advance the story (meaning, Rika's suffering).
Also, gotta mention how... "cheap" the show feels in it's horror. I have only watched both Deen seasons of Higurashi but they never reached the cheapness of "red filter", the horror was more atmospheric and when they went for it, they did get us (ignoring how horrible it looked visually). Passione's way of horror doesn't feel as close and as such, barely leaves an impression, and that's also including how downright STUPID many of the death scenes looked. It felt like a literal bloodbath every second or so.
When we reached the end of Sotsu, i only felt like i liked it but it was because Rika and Satoko were punching each other, not really what i call a proper conclusion. I have this feeling that the fight never gets to me emotionally because i just feel it's an award for watching a show that just continued to put the same scenes we seen in Gou but without any kind of interesting thing to look at, as if they thought you wouldn't be able to remember anything at all.
Thanks to this video i also became aware of the Gou and Meguri manga, which seems so much more better than what the anime had offered. Bringing so much more interesting changes and actually making it more compelling as a whole. Still fairly cautious because of how bad Sotsu dissapointed me, but i hope it becomes a greater and better way to experience this totally new story that isn't a sequel at all.
As a whole, even if i still have yet to play the VN, Higurashi is an experience that i loved. A great mystery with great characters which i felt satisfied by the end of it, this video made me want to revisit again sometime soon and immerse myself in the world of Hinamizawa once again.
Fantastic video, you are awesome 👍
Regardless of the writing, regardless of the senseless gore, I do have to thank Gousotsu for existing.
When Higurashi gou was first announced I thought ‘ oh cool that anime I kinda liked is getting a new anime’ because at the time Higurashi only sat at around my 25th favourite anime. I enjoyed its story but I was never obsessed over it. But when that twist in episode two happened i started to become more and more engaged. The new episodes were starting to become the highlight of my week. My love for the series grew so much that I even joined the Higurashi subreddit because I wanted to join the fandom.
This is when it hit me that Higurashi was my favourite anime/vn of all time. It’s the only series that could convince me to go back and read a 100 hour visual novel to learn so much more about these characters I’d come to love. It’s the only series where I could watch this six hour essay and not be bored for a single moment, well I’d probably also watch a very long essay on a certain story about seagulls crying.
Speaking of seagulls, it was the gou anime that led me to Umineko. I read through all 150 hours of that story with the beginning motive of seeing this berkastel character I’d heard about. But I ended up finding my favourite fictional story of all time. Umineko has changed my whole viewpoint on life, which is probably a little dramatic but it’s genuinely influenced me that much. If gou had never come out I highly doubt I would have ever read it.
So in the end it gousotsu indirectly changed my life, even if it is an essentially torture porn story with a few good moments.
One of the things that I straight up LOVE about Gou/Sotsu is how they invite discussion of Ryukishi07's body of work as a whole and how it examines Ryukishi07's relationship both with the community surrounding his work and his relationship with his work in itself. It felt like a work of meta fiction in a way I thoroughly enjoyed.
i was 3 episodes in when I joked that this felt like a rob zombie reboot of higurashi.
crazy how I still feel that way after finishing it... all the thoughtfulness of the original replaced with more gore and ridiculousness
I cannot express how thankful I am for this video for how much it helped me recover from how much the Gou/Sotsu anime made me forget how the original made me feel and why it holds a special place in my heart 😊 Aside from the ones you mentioned in the video, I also want to list down the things I wished they handled differently:
1) The club's involvement (and takano)
The club remembering Satoko's actions from previous fragments could've been amazing because it will show Satoko how wrong she is for assuming that those fragments where she made them suffer don't matter to her. Imagine if during the classroom scene, Mion and Rena's memories were triggered when Satoko pulled out her gun. If they stopped her, and it could played out like Tsumihoroboshi where all the club members would use their skills to protect Rika while also saving Satoko, the same way they saved Rena. As for Takano, it wouldve been a better redemption arc if she actually joined alongside the club rather than just being redeemed for the sake of being a red herring to who's the actual villain. It is really sad to see them reduced to mere pieces of Satoko and Rikas gameboard, when the original was about how every player mattered in achieving their ideal world where no one has to lose. I even had a theory where when Witch Satoko killed the real one, the latter didn't actually die. Rather, the real Satoko was trapped by Eua in a fragment where Rika didn't exist and her life was miserable. After all, the condition was for Satoko to die before Rika. and in a way she did (or at least her true self). Maybe that could've led the club members to travel fragments to find that Satoko while fighting Eua and Witch Satoko.
2) Hanyuu and Eua's connection
The way Hanyuu described herself as the "last remaining trace of Hanyuu" made me think that she's the last part of Hanyuu that remains after the original Hanyuu becomes Featherine again due to her horn healing. It would explain why she disappeared after using all her power to give Rika the ability to remember her death. Because that power required the strength of her true self (Featherine), as shown by the crack in her horn glowing. In order to use the power only she could accomplish with her old identity (Featherine), the last remnant of her identity as her weaker version (Hanyuu) couldn't sustain itself anymore. It would have been so emotionally impactful if what really happened was that before Hanyuu's horn fully healed, she wanted to leave a part of herself to protect Rika from the monster she will eventually return to being. They could've even done that as a parallel to Satoko fighting her own witch side. We could've seen how Rika would feel knowing her best friend and mother figure is now gone forever and the only remaining part of her is Eua.
3) Shion's relationship with Satoko
I really loved what you suggested where they gave the redemption arc Teppei got to Shion instead. It would be interesting for them to explore how Satoko feels about how Shion used to feel about her and even address whether or not Shion's love of Satoko is only motivated by her feelings towards Satoshi. Maybe they could showed that their bond isn't as simple as that and that Shion really does care for her. They could've even explored questions like if Shion would still care for Satoko knowing Satoshi might not love her the same way when he does return, which can teach Satoko about the importance of having selfless love (especially Shion who used to be like her in terms of being obsessed).
4) The animation
I really wished they replicated the animation style of Higurashi Outbreak (or even Kira) because it would've looked less cartoonish and it would be easier for it to feel like an actual sequel.
Despite my complaints, I do have hope that Meguri will be able to satisfy these or at least offer a suitable alternative. Anyways, I enjoyed your video and I can't wait for your review of Meguri in the future ❤️
Im back. took me three separate sittings to get through it all. Believe me, I was hanging on your every freaking word. I am whole heartedly impressed. your love for the series is felt loud and clear. I was excited to see how many quotes you could gather and contextualize throughout the entire video. The video does an excellent job of staying Poignant and measured in expressing your views and even swaying contrary opinions. A herculan feat for a 6 hour video. < not that I disagreed with you at any point during the video but I had many people I knew who werent as invested in the franchise as I am wrote off sotsu and gou as cheap and felt that by extension it cheapened the entirety of the Higurashi franchise. whereas I believe those fans without the context shared within your video, could swayed by this explanation. > Thank you Bess for doing the english speaking When they cry fandom such a favor by laying it out like it is. I too am a Mion lover, that often found myself baned by the overwhelming love for rena and the way the fandom can come to forget Mion due to her lack of juicy murder bait. I just want good things for Mion, and she so often gets forgotten.
Mion is really loved too, she came first on the last official popularity poll! Mion fans are everywhere 😶🌫️
Fun fact about episode 15 of Gou. The shop Mion's uncle owns has a reference to Toy Story. If you look at the shelves of toys you can see Woody, Buzz Lightyear and a few other characters on the top shelf. Specifically from Toy Story 4. I wish i was making this up.
I started watching this in the morning today, bit by bit, and am still at it now in the evening- you already made me cry a lil when talking about your moving schools experience. I cannot wait to finish these 6 hours and feel once again the depth and meaningfulness that we all can appreciate within the series that higurashi actually is.
Omg a 6 hour long vid abt higurashi? I think I’ve found heaven. I’ll make sure to watch it all and then give my thoughts :D
Just finished the entire video and wow this was a wild ride. First of all, thank you for this incredible video and your deep analysis.
Higurashi is my all time favorite show and its so nice to see others just as infatuated by its story, if not more seeing how you made a 6h long video essay lol. When I watched gou I was worried tbh, especially seeing how they amped up the gore to a unnecessary degree imo. But I was honestly so exited to have another mystery to solve and still somewhere trusted in higurashis and mainly ryukishi07s past writing.
I was utterly disappointed when sotsu came out for all the same reasons you’ve expressed throughout this video. The recaps were exhausting to watch and when the series came to a close I didn’t feel as though these were the same characters I’d fallen in love with. Mostly Satoko… After that I honestly cast it away, condemning it and vowed to never watch it again. I knew meguri would differ to some extent, but I did not wanna touch that either at that point.
While I still feel gou and sotsu doesn’t represent higurashi in almost any way, this video made me appreciate some of the thoughts behind the show a bit more. It also made me reflect even more than I had previously on the original show, which was an amazing experience and I loved hearing you talk about it.
Personally I still think gou/sotsu were a mistake, although I don’t think it never should have been made. But maybe I’m just partial to having Rikas shrine performance animated hehe. Jokes aside, there are some things I did enjoy and since it’s my favorite show of all time I can’t be too dissatisfied with more content. I’m as of now playing through the visual novel for the first time, although it will take me quite a while to finish. Something I’ve always appreciated having higurashi as my special interest is the amount of content there is, this is a franchise I’ll never get tired of since I feel like there’s always more to explore. By that I don’t just mean there are many arcs, but I feel like the characters, story and world have so much to offer in form of analyzing just like what you’ve done in your videos. Especially the characters, they feel like people to me, they have such complex writing.
I also want to thank you for talking about the gou manga as well as meguri, maybe I’ll pick it up sometime after finishing the vn. It seems like a better version of what we got in the anime. I did NOT think I was gonna write this much, but oh well. I guess the last thing I’ll say is yes, I would let Mion throw bricks at me.
I'm still so mad about Tatariakashi. Teppei redemption I can accept, even if I wish more was done to make this rather enormous change of heart more believable. But I just cannot fathom how little this arc seems to actually matter in the grand scheme of things, how it's ultimately just a means to an end, like the arcs preceding it. I was positive this would be *the* turning point. And it was, in a sense. It was the turning point for me realizing just how spiteful this show could get.
I remember theorizing that this Tatarigorishi-like fragment suddenly swerving into a Minagoroshi-like one was actually hugely impactful for Satoko because, it's such a miraculous fragment, and it happened in large part due to an aspect that Satoko was always aware of but one that she never seemed to take seriously, because it was the biggest evidence that these worlds actually did matter - non-loopers carrying over certain memories. This would get her to falter for the first time, really recognize the value in people like Keiichi and Shion, people that *would* go above and beyond to help her where Rika (according to her) failed. She would realize that this is in fact the world she wants to stay in, but it's cruelly ripped out from under her, either from her own machinations that she had already set up in advance or Eua's direct intervention, and for the first time Satoko would able to understand Rika's own despair. This is, I think, rather compelling, and would for the first time get me invested in Satoko's character in Sotsu.
But no, not only does she not care that this is a Mina world, a world that should carry great significance to her, and she takes active glee in destroying this fragment, and there's no consequences for this. Keiichi and everyone else are nothing more than disposable pawns, happily beating the shit out of Keiichi with her brother's bat (this detail feels particularly spiteful). I would at least think the fact that she didn't kill him outright might mean something but I guess not?
I don't care that my theory was wrong, even if I do think it would've been better than what actually went down. I'm just left cold by how, well, cold it felt. And just mean-spirited in general. Which is Sotsu in a nutshell: cold and mean.
I can't imagine how much effort this took, thank you sm
I'm glad that this video confirmed for me that the entirety of the Gou/Sotsu/Meguri/whatever-you-want-to-call-this project isn't a 1-to-1 interpretation of Ryukishi’s outline, but it was rather the result of him wanting to do a new Higurashi project where he'd let others toy with the general outlines and form their own story out of it. Basically, a journey from Ryukishi going from a fledgling doujin creator to a doujin... teacher? Not sure what the right term is here lol.
A lot of people have been calling all this stuff a "cash grab" and Ryukishi a "hack," and considering I'm still a total newbie to this franchise, at times I felt inclined to believe these comments. But the deeper I got into this series, the more I believed that the Ryukishi I came to know wouldn't do such a thing, especially considering how much he cares for his audience. He put suicide awareness in his VN for Christ's sake, the guy for sure has a heart. But that doubt still remained for sure, as one of my biggest fears when it comes to fiction is when a writer loses touch with their skills and, more importantly, their audience, and I feared this was the case with Ryukishi.
I've been reading Meguri, and while I feel like it's still got a bit of a pacing issue, I really do feel like Tomato is doing a good job. And the fact that Meguri is heavily deviates from Sotsu (as well as the fact that GouSotsu Another End is apparently a thing) tells me that this entire project truly is Ryukishi wanting others to get that opportunity to interpret his works, similar to how a doujinshi artist makes their content. Like you said, it's a passion project, and it feels like Ryukishi this time wanted to spread that joy of creation to others. And your research on Ryukishi's stance on Gou/Sotsu/Meguri/etc, really confirmed these feelings. I was happy enough to know that Ryukishi isn’t entirely at fault for Gou/Sotsu’s poor handling, but to know that the reason behind all of this was to let people use his IP to make their own content, their own conclusions, really warmed my heart. Though I can understand the frustration of it being “official” lol.
But not only that, this video gave me insight on a nature of Higurashi that I don’t think I would’ve figured out on my own. I went in thinking it was "haha edgy shit," came out thinking it was a really well written horror piece that tackled mental illness, and now I'm here knowing there's more to it. Higurashi is also a personification of the heart of doujin culture, a type of love, creativity, and freedom that you don't see much nowadays in a world that seems to disadvantage small, indie creators. So thank you for that.
Can’t wait for Ryukishi’s works on Ciconia Phase 2 and A DAMN SILENT HILL GAME BABY LET'S GO.
@Nexus Snake Ciconia Phase 2 is
Gonna be 2029 VN of the year.
Hi, I’ve never played/read/watched any Higurashi media of any kind and yet I wanted to say that I found myself transfixed and very moved by your video. I’m an AuDHD person who uses RUclips keep my brain engaged while doing daily tasks, and so I watch/listen to lots of video essays on subjects of which I have little prior knowledge. I enjoy how thoughtfully-made video essays engage me intellectually and emotionally, and I go down a lot of rabbit holes in random topics. All this boring expositional junk to say that your work here was a truly exceptional experience for me with a video essay. You did a fantastic job establishing context and connecting it to your analysis insofar that despite my ignorance of Higurashi, I was still totally able to understand your very lucid arguments.
I realize now that I had the completely wrong impression of Higurashi- only gleaning occasional memes and references, I falsely assumed that the franchise was “just” a violent shockfest. Though I like horror, I didn’t looked further into Higurashi because of my sensitivity to gore. Suffice it to say, this video tore down that impression.
Still, I don’t regret passively avoiding Higurashi for so many years. Rather, I’m thankful that your video will be my introduction to the franchise. I find myself rewinding sections of this video to reflect on your words even as I write this. I gained lot of respect for Ryujishi07, 7th expansion, and the Higurashi fan community through watching this retrospective. In particular, I found myself empathizing with the characters, the authors, and your critical voice through the sheer breadth of meaningful details and anecdotes that you presented. Even though I do not understand Higurashi, I understand why people love Higurashi.
I feel that Higurashi has become special to me, too. I’m grateful for the existence of GouSotsu because, like you said, it gave you a reason to make this video- and this video gave me a reason to experience Higurashi for myself. I’m going to start from the beginning and see which path I take from there. I’m sure this comment was a total ramble but I wanted to share my sincere appreciation. Thank you!
Did you ever get around to reading it?
Phew!
I wasn't sure if I was going to leave another comment but after hitting the end of the video I really felt like I should say something. I mentioned briefly on Patreon how excited I was to see this video drop and -- it feels gauche to say that such a personal piece of work 'lived up to my expectations', as if I have the right to place those on you, but with each Higurashi video you put out you open my eyes to new aspects of the work I've never truly put thought into and as someone who truly could not stand GouSotsu from the get go I had a tentative hope that you might be able to imbue in me some of the appreciation for it that lots of other people in the community seemed to have. And while I can't exactly say that I like or appreciate the series any more than I did all those months ago, I came out of this video feeling almost exorcised of those lingering feelings of spite and resentment about the series, like I had made my peace with its existence.
After all - GouSotsu only made me feel as strongly as I did because I love When They Cry as a whole so much and I never think it's a bad thing to love a story like this. And it was wonderful to hear you comb through the story, finding things to enjoy and praise about the work that I'd never myself had the stomach for. As I said in my prior comment, Satoko as a character is someone I feel very strongly about so this sense of desecration or I guess disrespect for her I felt Sotsu had at times was really painful to see -- now at least I can appreciate that *someone* working on the show felt something for Satoko like I did and wanted to focus on her story, even if they did it in ways I disagreed with.
Ultimately, this was just a really lovely epilogue to the experience that was watching GouSotsu. Your feelings on Higurashi shine through in every essay you produce and I think they stood out the brightest here. I hope the process of making this video was as rewarding for you as my watching it was for me - and I hope you don't mind this big, overly long comment at the end of it!
Of course not, I'm really happy to receive my very first comment on the completed video 🥲 Like I said I also had no idea what this video would end up being but it did enable me to make peace with Gou and Sotsu and I'm really honoured it could help to do the same for you. I know Satoko's writing especially created very disparate, strong feelings in so many people but I couldn't tap into that in quite the same way I could the feelings about Mion's arc for example, so I'm really glad to hear the video was resonant or helpful in any way regarding that aspect of the two shows. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
I wanted to make another comment where in the Visual novel, the message was to communicate and not to run away from issues or act on impulse, instead to talk, and to reach out and find other more viable solutions to issues..
In Gou and Sotsu they could have worked further with this message by actually making Shion relevant, telling Satoko that this was not the school for her, that she could still see Rika during school breaks and weekends, that just because they go to different schools doesn't mean they'll never see eachother again. Satoko considering this decides that she'd at least go with Rika because even though Shion is right, she wants to support her friend. Shion also tells Satoko when the decision is made, to call her if she ever needs someone to talk to, gives her tips on navigating the school so she can call Shion and not risk getting in trouble, as well as how they can meet in person when Satoko needs her big sister. Of course Satoko laughs and waves her off thinking things would be fine. But of course Satoko ends up having Shion as a confidant and Shion gets just a bit angry about how Satoko is treated by the school and Rikas lack of support despite her also trying to help Satoko (this would be the manga version). Shion, though with a good heart kind of makes things worse for Satoko due to the two being seen together, and Shion not having the best reputation, she rages at the school too and Satokos life is made worse there. Rika feels betrayed that Satoko (in her perspective) made Shion think of her as a bad person even though Satoko was just owning her truth to her and Shion got impulsive, but Rika loves Shion too and didn't want to lose her as a friend.
Satoko learns about looping at the club meetup etc, and Satoko does what she does in the manga, tries finding her works without harming anyone, doesn't work, she says goodbye to Satoshi and starts becoming more.... forceful. But in her first attempt in committing to harm others, we see her hesitation and in conflict. She loves her friends, and she's seen all the pain Rika went through for that supposed happy ending. Satoko not only would be forcing Rika in the prison of her 10 year old body, but Satoko would be killing their friends now, making Rika relive her traumas, and by putting the blood of Satokos friends on her hands, the friends who saved her from Teppei, and treated her like a person when no one else would. This would be the most difficalt action for Satoko to make, and after committing, we the the 'I'm sorry' repetition from Satoko.
After many loops, the characters start beginning aware of other loops, Shion becomes more aware of the fragments of Satokos life in St luscia and she confronted Satoko about it. Satoko is surprised and starts reverting back to the person she once was and talks to Shion about everything going on, including the looping and her regrets in her acting but how they were nessicary. Shion is taken aback and believes it was all a dream. Satoko in her eyes would never do such horrible things, but due to her fragmented memories, she somewhat remembers about how Rika would talk of different worlds and timeliness, so the looping isn't out of the question especially when Rika is involved. I don't know if it's a good enough explanation but it's what I got. Of course upset at Rika and acts on impulse, Mion tries to stop it, defending Rika, she also has memories and after Shions outrage Rika confirms to Mion. Eventually Keichi and Rena become aware and they take Satokos and Rikas side respectively. Not understanding the full story but enough that they get the gist. Satoko is like Keichiis little sister and Rena believes rika would have tried to help Satoko and she knows Satoko to doubt herself and be stubborn. Though Rena is more soft spoken and understanding of them both and that there could have been miscommunication.
The friendships between the club breaks Satoko down. In her eyes, at least in every world she entered she could have fun bonding with her friends, and things would be happy for a while. But seeing her friends being aggressive to eachother without any catalyst of the Hinamizawa syndrome being the cause of it, Satoko breaks down with guilt, regret and shame of what she became. She realised that she's the cause of the negativity of her friends. She doesn't loop this time though... she instead confronts Rika. This time apologising to her face of all the things she did when looping, and why it became like this, and saying she finally understands the curse Rika had with looping. Rika also understands Satokos pain in finding the ideal world, and finally understanding that they are two different people that can't have ideals and life decisions pushed onto them. Rika finally truly appreciates Satokos decision at the beginning to go to St Lucia only to support Rika, and she apologises for not reaching out to help her and support her the way she needed her to, she tells Satoko that they will loop one more time, back to the original world where Satoko will transfer schools to one better for her, with Mion Rena and Keichi. The two agree to still be friends and confidants when it comes to the trauma they faced when looping. Rika finally can talk to Satoko about her experiences and how she suffered, Satoko has Rika to help her face the emotional consequences of her actions, and understanding how Satokos childhood and fear of abandonment and being alone could have affected her into doing what she did. They take a lot of time to become the close friends they once were, but the mutual understanding and the trust they have towards eachothers secrets knowing both have had their mistakes in life, keeps them together in the early stages, and slowly they keep opening up, the memories of how they used to be start returning and slowly they start being able to bond the way they used to again.
while Satoko is looping (and it would be told as true to manga version)
Holy hell 6 hours of Bess content. Can't wait to rewatch this an unhealthy amount of times.
I have finally watched the whole video. It is one of the best videos I've ever seen, anywhere, on anything. The empathy you show while maintaining candor and clarity is amazing, and made me cry several times, as well as reflect on where my own empathy still needs to improve. You are exactly the kind of person Higurashi was written for.
Instead of sharing my bitter disappointment about Gou-Sotsu, I want to say that, to me, Higurashi's magic has always been its antidote to scapegoating. What Rika calls fate is the cycle of scapegoating in which Hinamizawa is entangled to its foundations, and which it renewed each year in the symbolism of the guts-drifting ritual. People generally knew it was wrong but kept it to themselves for fear of being next-that scapegoating is unjust was common knowledge, but the paranoia-induced breakdown of communication prevented anyone from realizing it was common knowledge until Keiichi rallied the village to liberate Satoko. Hinamizawa Syndrome places each villager into the mindset of a scapegoat, and its progression is the sliding scale of zero-sum morality, from "I won't help this person because no-one will help me if I do" to "it's kill or be killed". Zero-sum means any ground one party gets must be taken from the other party-and that means the village's harmony lay on tense, fractured foundations. When people get caught in these cycles, that then look like fate inevitable and inescapable, they lose hope and project their hopelessness onto others.
The cultivation of hope in friendship is a lynchpin for every core character's development because of that-what I admire most about Mion are her communication skills; she creates a space that facilitates open communication of difficult subjects like no-one else, and she does so with steadiness and humility that mix perfectly with her tomboy persona. Her decision to make the club for Satoko was arguably the first move taken on the board (once the fragments were positioned so the game was winnable) on the side against fate. I actually realized a few days ago that Mion is my favorite Higurashi character now, rather than Hanyuu; I think no less of Hanyuu (and still consider her by far the most underrated character in the story thanks to Saikoroshi), but I've come to realize how valuable and powerful Mion's skills are, as I'm someone who's always found it hard to communicate (and often to even recognize) emotional turmoil and thus am prone to marinating negative assumptions in my head about others and letting them fester into scapegoat affects for distrust in myself to communicate honestly and distrust in others to receive my expression empathetically. I've realized I could more or less ask myself "What would Mion do?" in situations where I'm unsure whether or how to express my feelings. Hope compounds on itself, successful communication leads to further successful communication, and a robust feedback loop between hope and friendship is the mechanism that defies fate and creates miracles as the best qualities of people who are good for each other resonate into something even better-the power to break cycles.
Ryukishi's statements about society as a circle and two people (but the more the merrier) being the minimum to create a universe combine, in light of what I've just written, into an almost blindingly hopeful vision of humanity where the art of friendship can pass from one link to the next and eventually encompass a world which can shed its dependencies on, and resignation to, scapegoating-scapegoating is contagious, and tends to be reciprocated, but the same goes for open, honest communication; the latter just requires more work to form into a cohesive, self-maintaining system of habits. Scapegoating is the inevitable outcome of "I'll treat you the way you treat me" because responding to cruelty with cruelty almost never accomplishes anything except making it harder and harder for each party to trust the other-simple-minded fairness is inherently imbalanced because breaking trust is far, far easier than earning it, and it never feels fair to have to be the bigger person after someone has hurt you. And Ryukishi, who has social work experience, understands that these cycles of traumatic miscommunication are often rooted in physical, emotional, and spiritual needs that go unmet because the institutions that are supposed to meet them are broken (from the Child Welfare Center to the Sonozaki empire to the scholars who disgraced Takano's grandfather to the orphanage Takano was abused at to St. Lucia and its malicious elitism, etc.), which create systematic breakdowns in communication for many people, potentially for many generations. Higurashi was never about character vs. character; it was always about how people failed by their community transmitted that failure through their interactions and lost the hope that would provide the incentive to realize better outcomes by creating community that learns from failures of communication instead of perpetuating them. Mion's club is the purest, strongest expression of friendship-community that I've ever seen, amidst a hellscape of senseless tragedies.
4 and a half hours in, and I kindda... Forgot Takano was in Sotsu at all. I forgot she just sort of decided to not be evil anymore cuz she found a letter (at least thats what it feels like based on how little time we spend on it), but if I had remembered it that would have been one of my biggest problems with the show. She really does just get handwaved away because she's not the main villain anymore, but her change really should have been the focus of at least an arc. Her whole thing is her indomitable will to achieve her goal, that's what started the loops to begin with, so her just going 'nevermind' and walking without serious focus on how big that change is just feels out of nowhere.
3:24:22
Satoko doesn't refute Eua's comment about her no longer being human. She only refutes Eua once Eua says she's no longer _Satoko,_ merely saying she's still herself so long as she's pursuing her happy world with Rika. And notably Satoko is consistent about this, as even after becoming a witch she still considers herself Satoko (she even fought with her human self over the right to the name itself).
Also I suspect Eua implying she wasn't Satoko any longer has something to do with her having called Satoko Vier earlier.
Thanks for being the person to highlight what makes this series so special in the eyes of its creators and its fans alike. I watched Higurashi in 2020 for the first time as I recognized the character in the promotional art for Gou. Out of morbid curiosity about the show along with its infamous horror elements and environmental tone, I kept watching and found myself pulled to the mystery of the series and it's been a wild journey. If it weren't for that promotional poster of Rena as a declaration of the continuation of the series Ryukishi07 built, I would've never delved deep into the world of Hinamizawa, and I would have missed the opportunity to stumble on your videos explaining your unique perspective on many aspects of the series. Thank you for making your mark on the Higurashi side of RUclips by showing old and new fans like myself what makes this franchise so unique
Thank you for this monumental video , that must have been a lot of work ! Higurashi is so special ... I have grown very attached to it , your post-mortem really helped me shading more lights to higurashi (like your other videos ) and only makes my love even stronger for this incredible thing Ryukishi has started , tbh after gou/sotsu i wasn't sure how to feel ... But now i do , Higurashi shouldn't be approached like other forms of media or games where we care about what's canon or not , actually Higurashi is more akin to .. Touhou or even Vocaloid , thoses three things shares in common community work , it's up to us if we want to approve what comes after the OG series or the og series itself , Ryukishi really values his fans opinions and is willing to let people put their own piece of coton to drift on the River he created ..
Truly Higurashi is a Festival in itself , reuniting us each time , on a fatefui day.
Higurashi means a lot to me , like all the fellow fans out there , i get surprised by how higurashi can influence me sometimes, and even make me go through things i wouldn't with other piece of works , i feel the need to expand on my knowledge of higurashi and what others think of higurashi and it's so fun , and ahah this video is truly a masterpiece and i didn't even get bored during thoses 6hours , i can feel the love yiu have put in making this video so vividly , in each videos you make about higurashi actually , which really makes anything you post about higurashi such a treat , and it surprises that i was able to go through it without being bored , there's hardly anything i would watch for 6hours and i never did in the first place , at the end of the video i legit had tears of happiness , i'm so glad to know Higurashi
i came back to Higurashi once GouSotsu was already a thing, and while going through some of the sound novels there was a fear in the back of my mind that GouSotsu had killed the series i was learning to love all over again, so i never watched it. lately, i couldn't stop thinking about it so instead of watching the series by myself, with an already negative disposition, i decided to watch this video, and i can't put into words just how much it meant to me.
it's true that GouSotsu has changed Higurashi as a whole for SOME people, but i shouldn't let that happen to me if i don't want to. i can enjoy GouSotsu as a different Higurashi media, just like Outbreak or even Kizuna. the truth is, there's no correct way to consume media, and the conclusion of this video has opened my eyes when it comes to that regard
I agree with you on the handling of Mion in Gō-Sotsu. And I am happy to have discovered in your video (which I did listen to in its entirety) that Ryūkishi07 allowed Studio Passione to do as they wanted ('they're the specialists') and was surprised to see what they came up with (at many places, but here specifically in Mion's case). Higurashi ends up being a story with so many branchings and directions and ideas (include here a reference to your video on all Higurashi arcs), and with characters doing so many things (to the point I often think Ryūkishi was much more interested in the characters themselves than in any plot or story -- it's the exploration of their personalities, flaws and virtues, that he cared about, and the 'what happened when to whom' part was a tool for this exploration), that this sounds strangely OK. Ryūkishi07 would have done things differently, and that is important, but he is OK with letting others play with his creations. That is somehow... refreshing, even if Passione may have done, as you claimed, 'something obscene.'
After watching the ending of Gou and Sotsu, it was pretty easy for me to pinpoint some of the things that I was irritated with execution wise. It’s understandable that someone could be frustrated from the considerable missteps and mistakes in Gou and Sotsu. It’s understandable someone could be upset and saddened by those as well. After-all, I was feeling that way. I’ve felt that way before about animes, art, tv shows, movies, and been mostly fine. Only upon trying to move forward, did I realize that I couldn’t understand the discomfort, unease, and myriad of other inexplicable emotions I felt. Those feelings weren’t ones I could really process at the time. Your video, particularly your conclusion, helped give me the closure I think I was looking for.
Using your own nostalgic experiences with higurashi, higurashi’s take on “true/happy endings”, and a considerable amount of Ryukishi07’s view point helped switch my own perspective to better look on why I was feeling so uncomfortable. I had felt like the “true” happy ending, the one I attached to, was ripped away. Honestly, any major change was likely to bring me discomfort and unease. Knowing why I felt those things was the majority of the battle for me. After I knew why I felt that way and listened to your interpretation of higurashi’s message of “endings”, those unprocessed feelings that were once boiling over began to fizzle out.
This doesn’t mean that I now like the missteps and notable issues in Gou and Sotsu, but, after gaining said closure, I can recognize that I’m glad higurashi continues to live on and that we are lucky enough to be able to feel things this meaningful towards a series. Im also extremely glad that we can have a community where people feel strongly enough to watch and make fantastic videos such as your own.
You very much did make me feel seen with your interpretations of these amazing characters. The visuals and music of your video alongside your descriptions and interpretations made me cry multiple times. Thank you for your hard work.
Thank you so much for the comment!
It is so sad that the end result was what we saw in the anime, 'cause Meguri has almost completely fixed and demonstrated the absolute potential of this "after story" of the Higurashi original arcs. I loved and agreed with all of your takes and reasoning on Satoko's feelings and motivation, that was all I wanted from Gou & Sotsu to present to us in a more explicit and understandable way, without relaying in Umineko easter eggs or outside knowledge. Although I don't neccessarily think that this story was justified, I was all in for the ride and with hopes of being surprised (which I technically was, but not in a good way), and after it was finished I just thought that the version of "Dear You" at the end deserved to be in a better ending ;/ I can't explain my thoughts more especifically because of my english limitations, but I want to say that I still enjoyed the whole 39 episodes and it's a shame that those episodes could have been exploided in a more efficient and exciting way.
Higurashi was the first visual novel I ever read, and part of my journey to loving and undertanding it is by seeing your videos about the themes and characters of this incredible story. Your work is truly inspiring and I'm so grateful to know someone who is a Mion stan just like myself :')) your Mion content made me love her even more. Keep doing what you love, you make many people (including myself) very happy, I wish you are doing well and I'm hungry for more When They Cry content like this video behemoth, or well not that big hahaha, from you :D
thank you bess, i don't comment on videos much anymore, but this video was actually amazing.
i do hope to see more of your future works.
Oh I entirely forgot the pure frustration and anger I felt at the end credits of the final episode and somehow your soothing narration did nothing to quell that… until that cathartic AF ‘Thank fuck’ at the end, lmao. I didn’t realize how much I still felt about about the series and this is bringing it all back! I have a feeling I’ll be back with more to say (I just need a breather at the… wow, 5 hour-ish-mark? Incredible how the video never felt like it dragged at any point) but I gotta say, this has been an excellent dissection that makes me feel so much more sane about how I felt at the time.
Thank you so very much for putting into words how so many of us feel this Higurashi has meant so much to me throughout the years and as someone who suffers with mental illness I would like to say thank you for having so much care and respect for how you speak on it, I’m so happy to have been a fan of your channel for so long and I can’t wait to see you grow I’ll definitely be here for the ride💕
Thank you for so much work on this retrospective! It was fully worth sitting down with you for six hours and going through it piece by piece. With the bitter taste Gou/Sotsu left in my mouth, I knew I was going to agree with most of your points. But I was pleasantly surprised with how positive I felt coming out of your video. Not just with the hope I got from hearing about the improvements Meguri was making to the plot but hearing all those facts about Ryukishi and his view surrounding stories. I dunno it just...spoke to something in me. So yeah, great video, Bess!
I saw someone else say that this video helped them put GouSotsu to rest and honestly that's such a concise and perfect way to put it.
I have held a lot of strong resentment to the creators and the show itself since it aired, I felt it was disgusting and trampled over and tore apart everything the original was, like the heart of the show was completely missing. And it hurt, a lot, as someone whom the original meant so much to. I stopped watching after the second episode of Sotsu and after hearing second hand how it ended I decided that was the right choice. But even after I decided to abandon it and pretend it never happened, I couldn't stop thinking about how much I hated it and how angry I was at the choices made and every now and again I'd just get so angry and sad thinking about it.
After this video however, I finally feel like I can let it go and accept it for what it is. GouSotsu didn't make me cry, it made me angry. This video made me weep, it saw my anger and told me it understood and I could finally release it. This video made me realize that the reason I was so angry was because I loved the characters and the original so much that I, just like Satoko, was clinging to it, begging it not to change or leave, claiming them as mine and wanting them to go exactly where I'd put them, then I was angry when from my perspective someone took it and forced it to change, melding it into something it's not.
But sometimes things change. They might not change in a way I like, but I can't just keep them stagnant in a place I want them, or they can never grow. And I can either stick around to see it, or I can walk away. No matter the choice I make, nothing will take away what the original gave me.
This video was amazing and exactly what I needed, you afforded this show so much grace and benefit of the doubt that I couldn't bring myself to and really went in deep, peeling away layer after layer until all the tangled feelings in me due to this show were unraveled and laid bare and finally put to rest. Thank you for making this. I hope this was worth the time it took to make it for you, because the time it took to watch it was absolutely worth it to me. Might even do something crazy and watch it over and over again. Absolutely spectacular video.
This video is amazing and your analysis is so great.
The way you explain the ways Rika was at fault and how her wanting Satoko AND St. Lucia is just as wrong as Satoko wanting to tear Rika away from her refuge by force.
And on a personal note I found myself really relating with Satoko as a sort of "evil me" as if I gave into my worst urges and your explanation of codependency really hit home. And the mention that for Satoko Hinamizawa is a refuge and for Rika a prison reminded me deeply of a situation with the person I thought of when relating with Satoko.
Thank you so much for making this.
I'm only in the Satokowashi-hen segment, but I do think if Satokowashi was written in sound novel format, being able to actually show the decay of the relationship through a long period of time would have really made the experience feel more believable. I think the nature of anime requiring a faster pace makes the story suffer. A long, drawn-out, agonizing descent into madness would be way more appropriate, and would really help to make Satoko more sympathetic, but I don't think it would make for good "anime."
Edit: I'm glad to see the manga tackles the arc better, but it makes me even more disappointed in the anime. It could have been better.
I can't believe I just listened to a 6 hours video about Gou & Sotsu and enjoyed every second of it... I guess I needed this, thanks!
my god.
6 hours of video from one of the best higurashi youtubers, talking about the amazing dumpsterfire that is Gou/Sotsu.
thanks for putting all this work into a video.
It's always so lovely to find people so passionate about the stories I love as well, and Higurashi is one of the stories I adore the most and has the biggest impact on me as I've grown into an adult and as a creative person. I was absolutely excited for Gou and Sotsu and no lie, disappointment was present for sure, but I still did find enjoyment on the new fresh takes. It was definitely as you said it, the feeling of returning home. I tend to get overwhelmed with feelings way too much to put things to words ever, so I think this amazingly done 6-hour video managed to resonate well how I felt about GouSotsu and Higurashi, as well as the When They Cry universe as a whole too.
TLDR awesome video so worth watching in the span of two days
I've loved Higurashi for more than 15 years, and I was deeply disappointed in Sotsu - in what it turned Satoko into (of course Rika's also at fault, but it isn't comparable in my opinion, especially when so little is shown), in the whole "but I hate studying!" excuse, the pacing, thw amount of times I had to watch _that_ scene of Rika dancing and in the whole ending. I'm going to start the video now (and I'm going to take my time with it since I have a lot of things to do today and Sotsu made me so upset it might be better to pause a lot anyway) and then edit my comment when I have more to say.
I wonder if I should read the Gou manga and its sequel. I like most of the Gou anime, so... maybe. Opinions?
Meguri isn't finished yet however without trying to spoil too much it really feels like they tried to branch away from the anime's interpretation of what motivated Satoko (was even the highlight selling point of the manga in Japan.) However the current chapter has me worried they're going to go straight back to a more Sotsu approach for whatever reason in the end. I wouldn't say Satoko's actions are at all redeemable however the manga was at least making her downfall more believable (no studying bullshit)... until you realize how far she's willing to go is possibly farther in the manga than even Sotsu, which kinda makes things feel like they don't fit right anyway.
TL;DR Satoko still kinda feels like she's being written as a psycho for the sake of body counts and "LOLOL gotta please yandere-loli fans because that's all that Higurashi fans want!!"
Now that Meguri has finished, how do you feel about it? It didn't fix all of the problems, but I feel like the ending was a lot more satisfying. I'd love to hear your thoughts
Gou/sotsu satoko felt very personal for me as someone who went to middle school with my best friend at the time, but having said friend ditch me and tell me to no longer speak to her as i started to get bullied. I am kinda projecting onto her and relating to satoko was very cathartic as someone who hasnt forgiven the person that ditched me like that and played a huge role in isolating me. I know its not quite relevant but gou/sotsu was such a comfort to me in such a personal way i just had to express it somewhere and felt like this may be a safe space to do so. Im still mid video but i already love it a lot
Btw i know im missing some points of the story by focussing on the contempt satoko feels but it was just a convenient tool for me to cope, i love higurashi as it is outside of my projections and i love rika even tho shes the canvas im projecting the cause of some of my trauma onto
Also, I realize now where Lambda in Umineko gets her “win for all eternity” attitude toward Beatrice. LD needed Beato to keep winning to keep Bern around.
Satoko was used the same way to keep Eua’s boredom at bay. She was convinced that the future will always be bad so she just needs to trap her friends in June 1983 to be happy
4:57:47 "gou and sotsu's ending fails by talking about the ending it replaced"
YES that's exactly my feelings on it. I hate the idea of this sequel because of how it spoils the original ending
Miotsukushi was a better ending imo.
This was an excellent watch, can't applaud enough what a massive effort it must've been and what a contribution it is to the fandom.
I really appreciate your thorough breakdown of Satokowashi's conflict and Rika / Satoko's relationship dysfunction as whole - this is a great resource for understanding them as characters and how / why they keep hurting each other. It really frustrated me, while the show was airing, seeing folks not grasp how the core situation was a product of both their respective traumas and assumptions about one another (admittedly not helped by how the show presented it, as you explained - the dichotomy that so much discourse seemed to follow, that one of them is Good and the other Bad, was chilling especially as dehumanizing idolization and denigration play such a role in the breakdown of their relationship!) Satokowashi, for all its execution missteps, was definitely the arc that connected with me most, precisely for these insights about how their histories follow them later in life and how the school is yet another institution letting them down. (In particular loved that you went into actual studies to contextualize Satoko's behavior!! Trying to process this arc last year led me to research stats on youth incarceration and solitary confinement myself, including the pretty staggering prevalence of high ACE scores among incarcerated girls here in the US. I think if this story had been as serious about considering these subjects as the original, the kids' experiences here could've facilitated some meaningful discussion of how institutions like the school can better support children following severe trauma, just as we saw with the club and Hinamizawa as a whole... oh well.)
Also _deeply_ appreciate you clearly naming Eua's role in Satoko's life as exploitative. Satoko's revictimization is another part of this story that hit home most for me, but the specific mechanics of how she's taken advantage of in this vulnerable state (as you noted, not dissimilar to Takano and Nomura; IMO also echoing how Ooishi uses K in the original question arcs) doesn't seem to get discussed too often. Similarly, I liked that you identified the simple contradiction of allowing these Witch figures to seemingly absorb responsibility for what happened against how the original ending approached Hanyuu. And as a Takano fan, I thought your comments that she had such potential to become a positive figure in Rika's life - at the very least to help her understand Satoko's mistakes - were dead-on. Enormous missed opportunities everywhere to further interrogate and recontextualize these characters and their environments.
After almost a year of digesting I'd come to the conclusion that the new series was disappointingly messy and self-contradictory, but ultimately had an emotional core that I appreciated and messages about returning to the past that I found personally resonant enough to prompt some worthwhile self-reflection. You've given me a lot more to think about both in how the stories were constructed and in what I see in them. So, thank you.
I always love watching your Higurashi content. I'm very passionate about this series as well, and you always seem to put it clearly into words how I feel about the topics. I watched both Gou and Sotsu as they came out, and had very conflicting emotions while watching them, which I think you perfectly described during this video.
Sotsu should have worked as a 'look behind the curtain' sequel but it also wasted so much potential outside of Satoko just injecting everyone. Don't know if the writers were trying to make Satoko sympathetic but they failed. Amazingly.
I just watched this entire video from beginning to end, and let me just say: Thank you. I cannot begin to imagine how much effort must have gone into putting this all together. Not only has this video helped me re-contextualize various elements of Gou and Sotsu and also the entire Higurashi universe, but it also helped me realize why this universe has always resonated so strongly with me, even if I was unable to put it into words before. This video has made me realize how this universe has always been a mirror for my own past experiences, even more so my own past trauma. And I would have never come to that conclusion (or at least, not this soon) had I not dedicated the past 6 hours of my life to watching this. So I'll state it again: Thank you. Easily the most impactful video essay/analysis I've ever watched.
gou, imo, was retroactively ruined by sotsu. gou set the tee up almost perfectly despite the rush (imo), but sotsu dropped almost every single ball.
I have no idea why they decided not to cover the fallout between satoko and the rest of the cast, as it was literally one of the most massive draws (for me) regarding the sotsu series, and the relationship between satoko and rika was rushed to an insane degree instead of properly walking out the ending steps. the breakdown and resulting destruction was tossed out in favor of dragging out the setup in sotsu.
I would say I got cheap enjoyment/fanservice out of the series, but only when suspending belief and ignoring canon facts about the characters. The fan theories were better then what we got and I think some of mine are becoming true in the manga version. Pretty sure we might see other loopers or characters that will remember what Satoko did. He might be trying to fix it for the manga by using fan theories/comments.
I think the manga seems to be doing some of what you wanted or doing better in general.
Mion is my favorite too, I felt like she has never had any spotlight, her own arc isn't even about her. It's weird R07 would pick Satoko to focus on because he felt he neglected her or something like that. I would hope he is planning something big for her in the future with how much she is ignored. Though it would be hard to write a believable L5 Mion, but what they went with wasn't believable ether. Would of been fine keeping it as Shion since at this point we knew it was a sequel. Looper Mion would of been awesome to see, but I have no idea how that could possibly be written. I do love the idea of how every character would deal with looping or learning the truth of Rika.
Satoko questioning her actions with Teppei of all people. I'm ok with Teppei reforming, but it should of been Keiichi that she had that internal struggle over.
This is supposed to be going on in Satoko's head and she isn't actually a looper? On the plus side you can deny Gou/Sotsu, but on the negative side that made it all pointless. Satoko and Rika are just having an argument and this is going on in Satoko's head? Rika is confessing to her to being a looper I assume? That fight at the end made it seem like it wasn't actually happening but negating the whole series but then saying yes it did happen? I don't even know anymore.
Then there is Reiwa, as if fans weren't miserable enough.
I hope R07 starts taking WTC more seriously again. I am heavily invested in what WTC as a whole is all about, but based on those interviews I have little hope he will ever answer it.
This is the first video of yours that I watched and I loved it. Great analysis and I appreciate how graceful and nuanced your POV is.
Absolutely beautiful piece. Thank you so much for this, your love for this series shines brightly.
I finished it today and wished it was longer. I could listen to you, Bess, for an eternity. Your kind of speaking is so calming and clear that I as a non-native understand everything perfectly. This video was far more interesting than the actual series of Gou and Sotsu. I’ll definitely watch it again. You make me understand Higurashi so much better and enjoy it even more. I’m already curious of how reading the novel feels after understanding all the aspects you spoke about here and in your other videos. We Higurashi fans are blessed that there is someone who is so clever and great at analysing and shares her thoughts with us so that we can enjoy Higurashi even more. Thank you, Bess!
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@@_bess ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I’m only part way through but I have endless respect for you for putting in so much work to make such a comprehensive analysis
I have nothing but deep respect for you and this video. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and even sharing parts of your life with us. I'm looking forward to all of your future content!!
Thank you so so much!!
I absolutely love the conclusion that you reached at the end of the video. Made me think of how I consume and interpret the media I consume myself. Love your work
I feel so bad that it's taken me so long to digest all of this, but I want to thank you for this. This is a genuinely incredible essay that really gave voice to both a lot of frustrations I had while watching this and also some measure of peace with what this means.
I was someone who took Ryukishi at his word. I'd taken Gou as a chance to introduce a friend of mine to this series that has meant so much to me because I knew there was no way I could get him to read the sound novels and he wouldn't touch the original series' animation. There was a certain dissonance in watching it this way, in feeling this growing frustration that felt like this series was losing so much of the richness in character and detail that had left me in love with the original, but at the same time, there was so much joy. I was finally having these conversations about Higurashi I'd wanted to have with my friend about these characters and what I loved about them and this world.
And it was paired with a certain sense of delight. That I was able to have this "conversation" again with a When They Cry story after so long (I know, I know, Ciconia, but I'm withering away waiting for lack of the next phase of that), however much it felt like a betrayal of Umineko's plea with readers to never stop thinking at times.
I think there is definite value in remembering, as you said, Higurashi's roots as a doujinshi and embracing the ideas of doujinshi culture, in taking value in what resonates with you and using works that don't to better define what you did like about the original.
I'm rambling, but I just wanted to thank you for this again and offer you that +1 to engagement so that RUclips knows you're doing great work. And thank you for giving me reason to check out Tomato Akase's manga! I'm really excited about where their version of the story ends up going.
as a long time higurashi fan, ive been waiting for you to do a video about the sequel
I wish they adapted higurashi meguri into a anime when it is completed 😥
Absolutely amazing analysis. I commonly come back to just watch individual segments or analyses just because it's all so fuckin good... You really are the master of Higurashi vids tbh. I especially love your character study on Teppei. He's an amazing villain, and it genuinely hurt to see them try to redeem him in Higurashi. Not just because of how it ignores Satoko's abuse, but how it tarnishes *Teppei* as a character, too.
If I can just talk for a moment here... I kinda wanna make my own comments about a certain thing. The segment where Rika is killed in various fragments by different L5 victims. I cannot believe how badly the GouSotsu anime fucked this up (though I'm reading the Gou manga and it did some of it a lot better imo, which I'll talk about).
Let's start with Akane. Let's move pass the fact that by nature of Gou being an anime we've seen FAR less of Akane than we did in the vn (which was already fairly little compared to everyone else) and thus don't have much investment in her if we're a newcomer like Gou is apparently trying to market to. First off, we see Akane brutally murder some random dude, and then decapitate Mion with barely a second thought. We see a handful of HS victims kill family members in the original. Satoko pushes her own parents to their deaths and is traumatized for life. Satoshi kills his aunt, who was HORRIBLY abusive to both him and his sister. And then, Shion kills Mion, and is overtaken with so much guilt that she literally goes insane. What remorse does Akane have at killing her own daughter? Literally nothing. I know this is a short segment, but not even some blood-stained tears, or a reluctant "I'm sorry"? It's so unsatisfying (the manga just shows Mion's body, instead of the actual killing, which I prefer). She then says to Rika that if she could have chosen, she would never have been born in Hinamizawa. Rika agrees, and resigns to her fate of dying. Akane's motive here only barey makes sense. I can see why she might think their bloodline is corrupt due to her parasitosis, but we simply don't get any elaboration on how she came to this conclusion like the original L5 victims.
The manga version is largely the same, but I think is executed with more grace and respect than the anime version. And also, another thing: Rika doesn't agree when Akane says they should have never been born in Hinamizawa. She's absolutely TERRIFIED. She hasn't given up wanting to live in Hinamizawa. This basic thing I think makes the segment in the manga work more for me, and makes it fail in the anime. In the anime, Rika just seems cynical and ready to die without putting up a fight. In the next scene, we see Kimiyoshi drowning her in the swamp. In the anime, Rika bitterly insults him and hardly seems to care that her LEGAL GUARDIAN is about to brutally murder her. This doesn't really make sense to me. Why exactly is Rika unaffected by the fact that her own guardian is about to kill her? In the manga, she is absolutely horrified. Throughout the manga murders, Rika shows reasonable, genuine fear at the fact that all these people are suddenly susceptible to the syndrome.
The manga also adds some murders to further increase the bizzare nature of these killings. I dig the detail of Shion killing Rika with the same method as she killed Satoko, since it's probably what happened in Watanagashi-hen (since she only killed herself in Meakashi). There's also the random inclusion of Keiichi's mom as a killer? I think that solidifes this segment as something totally abnormal and not just some people suddenly contracting the syndrome for no reason, which I don't think the anime version conveyed well. This chapter also ends with Rika stating that she'll continue to believe in her friends, despite all this death.
Keiichi's murders seemed mostly the same to me. I like the Gou manga a lot but unfortunately in some parts it does have the same trappings as the anime.
And then, there's Akasaka... In the anime, we barely see him. He and Rika have a brief, hollow feel-good moment, before it immediately cuts to a derange Akasaka going "itchy-itchy" and brutally murdering Rika and burning the house down. This was legit devastating to me. I was spoiled about L5 Akasaka before I got to this, and I was like "Wow, Akasaka's a really important character and was basically the catalyst for the success of Matsuribayashi, I wonder how Akasaka turning will flip the story around!" And then they just... do jack shit with it. Rika barely seems affected by it. Akasaka's motive is some nonsense about killing the bugs. And then it just ends.
In the manga, though... We get a whole segment with Akasaka, Rika, and Satoko. Akasaka and rika genuinely get heartwarming moments together. Satoko invites him to their house, which both gives another nice scene, gives some foreshadowing with Satoko saying she'll "never let [him] have Rika," and also providing a chance for Satoko to potentially inject him or put the H173 in his food. And then, after all these scenes, Akasaka still kills her. But first of all, it's framed less for shock value and more for tragedy. And also, his L5-induced motive seems a lot more reasonable: He promised to "save Rika," so he "saves" her by killing the bugs he thinks are inside of her... and thus, ends up killing her as well. THIS genuinely seems like something an L5 Akasaka could be driven to do. It's still a little out there, yes, but this switch-around of the motive makes this whole sequence, as well as Rika's absolutely harrowing reaction to it (remembering all the good times she and Akasaka had together in previous fragments) all the more tragic. I genuinely believe that this is one of the manga's best scenes, and FAR surpasses the anime version, which is basically a black comedy played up for shock.
Anyways rant over... GouMeguri manga good......... Still love the video.