I disagree with this logic. You can use this for so many characters, especially Mishimas, who can launch punish anything that's -14 (Kazuya can do -13). But of course, 99% of Mishima players will never punish something that's -14 with an electric. Even gods like Qudans and Keisuke don't do that, and Lee players like Fighting GM and I'mYourFather will never whiff punish something with instant ws2,3. These things are too impractical both in application and technical difficulty to be an accurate representation of what makes Lees and Mishimas difficult.
I agree with you but I think what makes lee hard is another point that even in his combos the player has to work very hard both for damage and wall carry(b2 loops) with mishimas only thing hard is doing double electrics and rest of the combo is easy also Idk why people say lee is easier to play in tekken 8 than in tekken 7 in tekken 7 you could not bound at the wall so you could always do a staple combo but in tekken 8 in order to maximize the damage you have to take the opponent to the wall without using the bound(in order to do his damaging wall combo) and it can only be done if you have mastery of b2 loops which of course is hard to master..
@@stealthexecutor563 The only ceiling stuff with mishima that is harder is the stuff no one does like pewgf or launch punish minus 14 moves. i have no idea why you would consider it. because the best kazuyas don't even consider it
Eh Idk if I agree with this one. Yes, damage optimization is certainly important in Tekken (all fighting games prob fit with that description) but I don’t know if I would base my entire argument around that. If we were to talk about other stuff like: gameplan, tools, efficiency and simplicity then I would most likely agree. I struggle more with Lee than the Mishimas, but that is due to the fact that the combo structure and execution is still somewhat foriegn for me. Factor in the fact that I have played Mishimas for way longer.
I guess it depends on what what game you are used to playing. If you played Street Fighter from the early days like have you are already used to doing a fireball motion which is what gives you instant while standing moves with out ducking. It's also useful for Leo's ws 4, 1+2 and Lars ws 1.
@@epicwuexcaliburumbra1736 No he is weaker. Pro players agree on this. He lost magic 4 jailing and homing b4. and also his best power low slide. Best lee players agree too
Not to say I necessarily disagree, but I don't see how this makes him "harder to play" than Mishimas. I'd assume something like that would involve the difficulty of executing a character's gameplan, trouble initiating offense, lack of fundamental tools ect.. all of which Lee already has and his optimization can be quite forgiving when u have such hard hitting buttons and setups at the wall but that's just me.
all of the mishimas in this game hit really hard..even with devil jin the combo damage is really good.. but you can argue that devil jin is harder than lee because right now his execution requirements doesn't match his output
@@mwkan772 Yeah I mainly play devil jin and lee personally and I always feel like my options are quite limited when playing dvj while Lee gives me a lot of stuff to work with. I think in terms of combos Lee's are significantly harder because devil jin only needs to link 2 ewgfs the rest is basically abc... But then again if u play mishimas chances are u already execute electrics without much efforts. But overall Lee is just way better as a package tbh.
Both mishimas and lee are not difficult. Execution is not where this game ends, they have crazy braindead neutral tools that othere characters might aswell not have, like lee ff3 or mishima ff2. Or lee bb4 and mishima electric
1. They are difficult characters. 2. Lee does require ALOT of execution with mostly everything he does. 3. These characters are no where near brain dead. 4. Lee BB4 is a one high kick why is that even mentioned😭? You have your opinion and I have mine , so it is what it is.
He has a point what makes a character difficult to play isn't necessarily their execution but rather how easy or not they interact with the game. Steve for example is difficult not because of his combos but because he doesn't have a launcher meaning you will have to work around how the game is usually played. This is hard. Jin is easy but his combos require an electric to do which is hard however his move are simple and works well with the game making him a easy character.
I do agree with him that execution isn't the only part that makes a character hard but it's definitely part of it. Though, I do think lee in tekken 8 and some mishimas are overrated in difficulty, like jin. They're definitely not braindead characters, but I just don't think they're as hard as some peoplensay@@Holyjermaine
@@Holyjermainejust a one homing high kick that is fast, plus on block and gives 50 guaranteed damage on normal hit. Not a braindead attack at all for sure, just like his ff3 that is just as fast as jin ff2, but has more range, combos in heat for lee's idiotic wallcarry and damage and is even mixed up with slide from range 3. The execution is hardz but anyone can do it with practice and skip the mindgames required for other characters
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I disagree with this logic. You can use this for so many characters, especially Mishimas, who can launch punish anything that's -14 (Kazuya can do -13). But of course, 99% of Mishima players will never punish something that's -14 with an electric. Even gods like Qudans and Keisuke don't do that, and Lee players like Fighting GM and I'mYourFather will never whiff punish something with instant ws2,3. These things are too impractical both in application and technical difficulty to be an accurate representation of what makes Lees and Mishimas difficult.
I agree with you
but I think what makes lee hard is another point that even in his combos the player has to work very hard both for damage and wall carry(b2 loops)
with mishimas only thing hard is doing double electrics and rest of the combo is easy
also Idk why people say lee is easier to play in tekken 8 than in tekken 7
in tekken 7 you could not bound at the wall so you could always do a staple combo
but in tekken 8 in order to maximize the damage you have to take the opponent to the wall without using the bound(in order to do his damaging wall combo) and it can only be done if you have mastery of b2 loops which of course is hard to master..
I'mYourFather is weak Lee user. Look at his technics, he is not even in top 5 on RUclips.
@@mwkan772 Strong points. I also think Lee is quite weak in this game which makes him harder to use than Kazuya, who is pretty strong after 1.05
@@dr.shtopor he may not be the best, but calling a GoD rank Lee in the hyper competitive region weak is just not right
@@nurdauletpolatbek2681 weak among youtube Lee players, not totally weak.
There's optimization and then there's unnecessarily making it harder.
maybe his skill floor is higher but mishimas skill ceiling is way higher than lee`s
its not, people been sleeping too much on lee thinking hes hard like he was in tk7
Skill ceiling is less important than floor if you want to win
@@Chaoblahippoboth are equally important if you want to overall improve.
@@stealthexecutor563 The only ceiling stuff with mishima that is harder is the stuff no one does like pewgf or launch punish minus 14 moves. i have no idea why you would consider it. because the best kazuyas don't even consider it
@@Chaoblahippowhat are yall talking about I’ve been playing for years and have no idea what ceiling and floor means 😭
2:31 that was nasty
thanks bro^^
It it launch punishable?
haha no
he uses frames traps a lot that's why I used uf4 xD
think of it as xiaoyu going aop stance after using heat, so you use hopkick to launch
Ah got it thanks
His combos are pain in the ass... though....
This is literally the best channel for Tekken 8. Owned by Moku Jin. ❤️🔥
Used to be oni
Thanks a lot for the kind words bro^^
@@mwkan772 it’s true lol i remember when you had oni as your pfp.
yes but even then I used to play multiple characters not just akuma
@@mwkan772 I’m referring to the pfp not the characters you played 🤦🏻😅
I... kinda agree. Which is simply MARVELOUS!
Definitely not a recommended character for beginners unless you want to learn the advanced stuff
so true
"Advanced" you mean fuck up your fingers, not advance tekken
@@aren5900Why would your fingers get messed up? You should do your inputs more gently if that's the case for you.
"Heat or no Heat" only shows combos that need heat (burst or dash)...
@@JaquetaoSlayer glad I wasn’t the only one that noticed.
He def meant with heat activated or not since ff3 is the only followup after ws2.3 without heat at all
3:34 that adaptation in the combo route was super sick here. got the wallsplat even off axis
Eh Idk if I agree with this one. Yes, damage optimization is certainly important in Tekken (all fighting games prob fit with that description) but I don’t know if I would base my entire argument around that. If we were to talk about other stuff like: gameplan, tools, efficiency and simplicity then I would most likely agree. I struggle more with Lee than the Mishimas, but that is due to the fact that the combo structure and execution is still somewhat foriegn for me. Factor in the fact that I have played Mishimas for way longer.
his B2 loops are pretty difficult tbh when you first try him
I guess it depends on what what game you are used to playing. If you played Street Fighter from the early days like have you are already used to doing a fireball motion which is what gives you instant while standing moves with out ducking. It's also useful for Leo's ws 4, 1+2 and Lars ws 1.
I disagree with the reasoning but agree with the statement
In my opinion excepting devil jin, the mishima's are a little bit overrated in difficulty.
Good vid!
This is pretty much the same logic as Bryan.
His WS 1 can be input as qcf+1, giving him an i17 punish
i don't think you need to do instant ws1 with bryan as both jet upper and ws1 do 20 damage
@@mwkan772 for punishing uf4 of devil jin its pretty good for stuff like this
It’s not about the dmg but more about options
@@mwkan772 Usually you want to whiff punish with a mid tho, a lot of stuff in this game randomly high crushes, like Lars orbital
I think the Difficulty of tekken characters is subjective
Teach me how to play Lee.
Is my Lee good enough?
I uploaded my video ranking
How did you do the f21 in the last combo? Was that fff21?
Anyone gonna tell him both the ws 23 punishes were with heat
Nemesis i challenge you to a lee mirror😤
The most optimal punish is the most consistent one, especially online. But damn, this punish looks sick and kinda toxic
just like T7 king, need to fcf2 for big launch
ggs if that was your Lee on NA servers! (I was Waluigi Lee)
Mwkan probably one of world best Lee... wtf!!😣😅
Despite the add of new powerful move and system, i feel Lee is even get weaker than T7
He’s way stronger than he was in 7
Lee is stronger in t8 then 7 bud
still a weak character overall.
@@epicwuexcaliburumbra1736 No he is weaker. Pro players agree on this.
He lost magic 4 jailing and homing b4. and also his best power low slide.
Best lee players agree too
How is ws2,3 harder than electric
I agree he is super harder than mishimas. And i think he is not easier than t7 in this game
what are your tips for getting out of tekken god as lee?
What not knowing what "optimal" means does to a nibba:
This is the actual optimal whiff punish. What the hell do you mean ?
Claudio pls
B33 it wont work anymore 😢
What do you play with?
🌊🌊🌊
Not to say I necessarily disagree, but I don't see how this makes him "harder to play" than Mishimas. I'd assume something like that would involve the difficulty of executing a character's gameplan, trouble initiating offense, lack of fundamental tools ect.. all of which Lee already has and his optimization can be quite forgiving when u have such hard hitting buttons and setups at the wall but that's just me.
all of the mishimas in this game hit really hard..even with devil jin the combo damage is really good..
but you can argue that devil jin is harder than lee because right now his execution requirements doesn't match his output
@@mwkan772 Yeah I mainly play devil jin and lee personally and I always feel like my options are quite limited when playing dvj while Lee gives me a lot of stuff to work with. I think in terms of combos Lee's are significantly harder because devil jin only needs to link 2 ewgfs the rest is basically abc... But then again if u play mishimas chances are u already execute electrics without much efforts. But overall Lee is just way better as a package tbh.
I think dvj is struggling the most atm
Lee is just a counter hit monster, always plus and baits you into pressing buttons.
I think you can b11 ms cancel if you ssl ws 2,3 male characters(dont think it works on female hit boxes)
Both mishimas and lee are not difficult. Execution is not where this game ends, they have crazy braindead neutral tools that othere characters might aswell not have, like lee ff3 or mishima ff2. Or lee bb4 and mishima electric
1. They are difficult characters.
2. Lee does require ALOT of execution with mostly everything he does.
3. These characters are no where near brain dead.
4. Lee BB4 is a one high kick why is that even mentioned😭?
You have your opinion and I have mine , so it is what it is.
He has a point what makes a character difficult to play isn't necessarily their execution but rather how easy or not they interact with the game. Steve for example is difficult not because of his combos but because he doesn't have a launcher meaning you will have to work around how the game is usually played. This is hard. Jin is easy but his combos require an electric to do which is hard however his move are simple and works well with the game making him a easy character.
I do agree with him that execution isn't the only part that makes a character hard but it's definitely part of it. Though, I do think lee in tekken 8 and some mishimas are overrated in difficulty, like jin. They're definitely not braindead characters, but I just don't think they're as hard as some peoplensay@@Holyjermaine
@@Holyjermainejust a one homing high kick that is fast, plus on block and gives 50 guaranteed damage on normal hit. Not a braindead attack at all for sure, just like his ff3 that is just as fast as jin ff2, but has more range, combos in heat for lee's idiotic wallcarry and damage and is even mixed up with slide from range 3. The execution is hardz but anyone can do it with practice and skip the mindgames required for other characters
bb4? You mean b4 right
i need to practice this with lee. I just do f3,3,3,3,3,4 since its so easy lol
take this video down IMMEDIATELY
No u