Yea, lots of Brazilian coffee lovers out there. It was a very nice coffee and I have 4 more lbs to roast. I wish I could display both Celsius and Fahrenheit at the same time. Glad my Celsius display was helpful.
I occasionally watched your videos for entertainment, but my wife was the roaster in the family, going from a popper to air to the Behmore. Just a few days ago, we received our Kaffelogic Nano 7. Now, because I’m the tech person in the house, I’m the roaster! The Nano 7 is a real game changer. In the past, we always roasted outside, adding inconsistencies. My wife basically just adjusted the “drop” time, based on feel. It was all very analog and magic. The Nano 7, on the other hand, works great under the kitchen hood. It has set-and-forget repeatability, so the 1/5 lb batches (91g) are no problem. One of the experts a Kaffelogic recommends finding a profile that hits 1st crack at about 6:30. Their out-of-the-box Level 3.1 was much too dark for me. Level 1.0 has worked well - and sure enough, worth Level 1.0 on an appropriate stock profile, that has been delivering 50%, 30%, 20% time ratios or so. I’m going to continue to learn from your videos, build profiles, and keep logs. I’m just touching the surface (but not the WARNING HOT SURFACE! 😁) A nice thing is that once I have custom profiles stored, my wife will be roasting again. Just pour in 91g, select the listed profile and level, and hit “play”. Empty the excellent chaff collector, and repeat. So easy and predictable! The batches might be small, but the ease of use makes it a moot point for home roasting. Thanks for your great videos!
Ah yes, it finally arrived. Congratulations! A programmable air roaster. Sounds kind of like the IKAWA a little. I’m glad you are getting good results. Out with the magic and in with technology. Now you can easily experiment with different coffee profiles! Will you roast all your different origins using the same profile?
I will definitely use different profiles. Step 1 is to choose a reasonable profile and try it. I can write down the color change and log first crack, then manually end the roast at a reasonable time. Next, I would scale the profile to get first crack at 6:30 or so, and stop the roast with the target development time. Finally, I might change the start of the curve to adjust the dry point. At least that’s where I am now. How can I customize it further to bring out sweetness? What would I do if the bean temp is wiggly? I’m not sure. Yet. Right now, I can focus on good first crack timing and when to end development. And I’m just touching on adjusting dry time. This is already a big step from what we could control before. And the workflow is frictionless.👍
Once you get use to the controls and can control the roaster to reach events like dry, FC and drop at specific times, you can start to experiment by moving your event times. For example, lets say you reach dry at 4 minutes, consider reaching FC at 7:15 ot 7:30. keep your development time at about 1:45 ish. You decide what temperature/color to take your coffee for the end of roast temp. By moving these time around you will notice your coffee will taste differently. I would only make one change at a time to know how it impacts your cup. Have fun. Whatever you do, don't limit your roasting to what others tell you, like 6:30 for FC. You might find a better profile that works for you.
We also have that Fazenda Natural here in our roastery/cafe. One of our fast moving coffees for pourover. We also blend it with our washed Colombian cauca for our espresso. 👌👌👌
I am new to coffee roasting and I am glad I came across this video. The beans I am roasting now are very similar to this. Now I just have to translate everything to my skywalker roaster.
hi Randy, yes, this was an interesting bean to roast. It really required me to try and control my roaster. i think the concepts, timing of the roast and end results were pretty good for the first roast. You might want to consider lengthening the middle phase about 20-30 seconds. thanks for watching my video and for being a subscriber!
That was awesome! Thank you for sharing all your Knowledge and taking us with you on your Coffee-roasting-journey. It really means a lot to a lot of people! Keep going. Your Motivation and Knowledge is an Inspiration to a lot of us! Thank you!!
Thanks Mike: Educating. Currently in the process of learning a new drum roaster & using Artisan. Graduated after 6-years of using a Behmor. I'm finding your channel helpful; gives me something to aspire too. 😎
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Bought the Kaleido M6, it's powerful and responsive when doing a 500g batch. Very happy with it, only 10-roast with it under my belt, Central & South American coffees. Right out of the chute, I'm close to my targets. Pour overs & espressos taste considerably better compared to my 17-minute Behmor 1lb roasts. Had lots of good coffee roasted in my Behmor, but can really tell the difference using the M6. An electric roaster makes sense for me, house runs on solar power, SWFL has ample sunshine year round. 😎
Sorry for the late reply. I have been traveling. The M6 seems like a pretty sweet roaster. I would really like to hear more about your roaster after you have had a little more time using it. I would love to do a review on one of these roasters. Where did you buy yours?
Oh boy, you know I really like these kinds of videos, Mike! An unedited recording like this shows us many, many things about roasting. You even have demonstrated how easy it is to get distracted by something in a roast, causing something else to be affected. That and other things in the video gives us many valuable learning points. Although I am currently roasting manually (meaning without a computer attached), I can see how valuable it is to see projected temperatures. I also like the B-camera shots as they show us much more about all the things that are going on during roasting like using the trier, and they just make the video nicer! What control item would you say most quickly controls temperature when it's a little off, fan speed or heat? On my Bullet, I would have to say fan speed has an almost immediate effect whereas heat control is delayed a bit. But it seems having quick control to change temperature is not always a good thing. If I can, I try to see things early enough that I can use heat control to slowly change temperature. Do you think being 15 seconds or so longer than you planned in the Maillard Phase made any difference in the taste of the coffee? Great video Mike!
Hi Lou, thanks for the encouraging words. I'm glad the video was helpful! Now, on to your questions. When I am "in trouble" with higher temps than I want, I pull the emergency brake which is my fan. I don't like using the fan to do that because it potentially could drop the ROR too much, which I don't want. In the case of this roast I should have turned up my fan to the high setting just before first crack or even before. That would have helped me keep my temps in check a little more I think. The combination of the lower density as well as the natural process should have been my clue to watch this a little more carefully. Because my middle phase was longer than i originally had planned I think the acidity was softened a little. I wish i could get a little more berry in the cup but may the slightly longer Maillard time could have toned that down? I'm not sure. This is one area in my roasting ability where I actually have to test and taste to really know the impact.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom.could you talk more about changing temperature versus bean density.or starting temperature versus altitude?again thank you so much.
Hi James. Generally, the higher the altitude, the cooler the atmosphere, the slower the growth of the cherry which creates a more dense seed. The density can influence flavor. You tend to see more fruity and floral coffee notes from higher elevations. As far as charge temperatures or temperatures overall, denser coffees are less prone towards roasting defects because of higher temperatures. Lower density coffees usually use the “low and slow” approach. Low temps as the coffee is introduced to the roasting environment and slow roast times (generally longer total roast times. There are always exceptions to the rule. I did a video on coffee bean density as well as a couple on coffee roasting temperatures. You might want to check those out. They could be helpful.
I think that the berry note that you’re looking for gets transformed into earthiness. I think it might be a heat transfer problem during the Maillard phase. I was getting a lot of blueberry-chocolate notes when I was roasting at elevation (Ethiopia, El Salvador, and Costa Rica naturals) on 450g batches on a behmore. Came down to sea level and experienced way more earthy notes on the same greens and recipes. I was expecting fruit-berry-tart-chocolate. I’ve since reduced my batches to 300 grams and am getting juicier and fruity bodies. I believe there’s a bean mass threshold that buffers that coffee mucilage from being scorched too quickly and being leveled out into earthy notes. Enough beans can add a new variable to the heat transfer problem that almost preserves fruitier profiles through the roast. More beans = less efficient heating… which isn’t always bad as long as you have enough momentum going into 1st crack. Thank you for your roast tutorial, you are extremely helpful.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this roast, Michael. I really appreciate that. I agree that batch size can really influence the cup. I think the primary advantage of smaller batch sizes is to be able to speed up the total roast time. One of the things I’ve experienced with to be more is when I roast larger batch sizes the roast takes a lot longer, and I don’t get some of the fruit that I hoping for. In the case of this Brazil natural, the fruit I was expecting, was from the natural process. Generally speaking Brazilian coffees aren’t known for their fruit as much as they are for their chocolate and nutty notes. If I would’ve gone for a shorter total roast time I may have been able to bring out some of that fruit they talked about in the tasting notes but I didn’t get it. Maybe it was transformed into that earthiness. Thanks for sharing and watching!
Great video! I really like the real time roasts, and the theory beforehand to use as a roadmap of sorts. Really like the use of the second camera in this one also!
Hi Mike. Thanks for keeping it real. If every roast you did was perfect to plan, I'd probably be questioning my own abilities. Appreciate the way you stress "philosophies" of roasting. Having such a different roaster than you (FR SR-800), it would be hard to correlate my equipment from yours otherwise. Watching your videos always makes me think, which in turn, raises questions. Here goes: 1.) You stated that Artisan was predicting ~ 5 minute dry end time on this roast. Being that dry end is really a visual thing, how can it know that? Are there roasting parameters that you put in beforehand to enable it to predict that? 2.) You ended up with a development % of just under 14%. Your plan was to hit 15%, so this was obviously intentional. Did you plan that strictly to avoid going too dark? Are there other ways to avoid going too dark, but still have a higher (~20%) development %? What negatives are there in having such a low development %? Thanks again for doing what you do. My coffee is better for it.
Great comments as always J. I Make mistakes, that’s one way I learn. I do have a temp set for dry. It is an indicator for me not a hard event point. It helps me predict. Depending on my momentum and charge weight that dry end temp can vary +- 20 degrees. Usually when I roast 1 lb it’s about 330 degrees and 500 grams is about 340 degrees. I think I have it set to 340? Not sure. Before I started my roast and artisan I predicted my dry time. I can do that because I know my roaster, and the coffee density/process. That info also helped me use a charge temp that was 15 degrees lower than my typical charge temp for 1 lb of coffee. Artisans prediction/estimate is based on my temps and ror as it heads towards the temp I have set. It serves as a nice reference as I am roasting. The decision to drop the coffee at that point was a combination of my development time, percentage and bean temp. Development time - I wanted 1:30 dropped at 1:21 because my by was higher than I wanted. That was the primary reason. Development percentage - 13.9 is as good as 14% in my book 😃. I don’t think I said 15%. I sis say 3 min - 3:15 just before talking about my development time of 1:30. Phase percentages are really helpful guides but things can get skewed when you have really short or really long roast times. Bean temp - this is the most important factor in keeping your coffee from going dark. You can’t have a light roast coffee with a bean temp that is 430 on my roaster. Honestly you can’t have a lighter roast at 400 either. I choose 395 drop temp because I knew that would give me a color that would be on the lighter side of medium. I correlate bean temp and color together for my roast level. I went over by 2, almost 3’degrees. I could have hit the 395 temp if I wouldn’t have had that flick just before FC and at the beginning of development I might have been able to hit 395. A lower ROR during development would have helped achieve my goal. Development without going dark - man, that is one aspect of roasting I chase after almost ever time I roast. A lower ROR during development is key to accomplishing this. The risks are dragging your roast through development and causing a flattened flavor profile. So, you can go 20% and have a lower temp by using this method. You can also roast lighter and still have a nicely developed coffee but this is challenging. Generally, lighter roasts have a bit more acidity. That is one of the beauties of development. We use this phase to balance our roast and to turn the flavor wheel to craft our cup!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I see what you're saying. Agree with risking flat coffee by dragging out the roast too long just to fit a desired roast %. I learned that lesson the hard way a while back. When I mentioned 15%, I was referring to the graphic you had near the start of your video. Your pre-roast plan called for a 10:00 total roast time with a 1:30 development, which equates to 15%.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab it’s a pleasure to chat with you! I like that it is silent so it’s easy to hear the cracks, you can see color changes easily, simple controls (shut off timer, temp), the cooling tray can cool a batch in a few minutes, easy to clean, good price. I don’t like chaff removal, it awkwardly collects below the heating element/reflector plate (it’s an IR heater), replacement parts have to come from South Korea via eBay, back to back roasts are challenging. You have to allow time in between roasts or it will shut down
@@VirtualCoffeeLab forgot to mention, the thermometer is a regular thermometer, I want to see if I can get something in there that can spin on the axis with the drum, or be wireless or something. Right now I read temps by eye and I wrote a small command line program to track my input and do the math for weight loss and graph temps I enter
I have been watching your videos for a few months and I've got it on repeat after recently buying my M10. It's amazing how one can start picking details after each watch and practice session. Brazil natural beans was first choice to learn roasting on and just can't get them from either light burn or under developed or overdeveloped. Whilst I am working my way through my 18th roast, comparing this video on your Gas roaster, would you do anything different when you roast on your M10 roaster? Would you be able to do us a Brazil natural on the M10 ?
Hi Clyde. Thanks for being a subscriber and for your comment. Congrats on your M10. Are you running 220v? The M10 roasts differently than my Mill City gas roaster. It has a higher capacity and air system. Honestly i wouldn't start with the brazil natural. It is a challenging bean, especially when you are trying to figure out your roaster. But, you've gone this far, let's try and figure it out. Because there are so many variables, i would need to know more about your roast profile. Please share: Bean Info (name, density) Batch size Charge temp first crack temp drop temp Your desired roast level Please tell me how you are managing your airflow. What are you starting with, at charge and do you change it during the roast. Please include your air settings at each of your events. Once you reply I will try and offer some suggestions.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike, Thank you for your quick response and appreciate your help. The M10 is a 220V here in the UK. The El Dorado farm brazilian beans have been challenging but i have managed to finally get sweet ripe aromas after 3-5 days of storage but it lacks the taste flavours where i get a bitter yet acidic finish(apologies still training my taste buds). These are Red Catuaí from Alto Mogiana Mineira region grown at 1205m altitude where i am meant to get 'Tasting Notes: Medium acidity with aromas of hazelnut. Really sweet & fruity with strong notes of mango and chocolate.' Here is my last best profile: 400g batch and i would like a medium roast, Charge at 172'C with Fan 10% and when beans drop turn heat 10% TP: (90-96)'C @ 56 secs then turn heat 90% (To get a high ROR) @2:00 drop heat 85% @3:00 drop heat 80% DryEnd: 150'C @ 4:30 mins and then drop heat to 75% (aim for 150'C@5min) @5:30 drop heat to 70% @6:30 drop heat to 65% FCs: 180'C @ 7:30 drop heat 60% and Fan 50% (aim for 180'C@8min) FCe: 199'C @ 8:40 drop heat gradually to 40% and Fan to 80% at FCe Drop: 203'c @ 9:10 (aim for drop at 18-20% development) Usually i aim for 50/30/20 development with a nice BTror which rises and then follows the gradual smooth decrease .
Hello Clyde, I'm sorry i missed your response. Many times RUclips doesn't notify me of replies to my replies. Looking at the profile it is a great starting point to work from. It sounds like you are able to control your roaster. I'm not a fan of soaking with the Kaleido. It doesn't have as much hot metal as my Mill City. It seems to be working for you though so good job. If you didn't do a soak I would charge with a lower temperature (something like 160), keep on the power, and stretch out the entire roast from a total roast time of 9 minutes and 10 seconds to something more like 11 minutes. This is the "Low and Slow" approach. Your overall ROR degree of descent is lower. Your overall ROR peak is lower. The result will be a longer dry, browning, and development time. The dry time isn't as critical as the browning and development. Aim for a 3 min and 45 second browning time and a 2 minute development time. See how that impacts the cup.
What temperature is being measured for the Drop temp? Reason I ask is that my experience is that first crack doesn't even start until around 400 and doesn't really get going until 410. My roast chart shows City roast at 425 and Full City at 438. Those temps are the temperature of the beans I believe. So I'm wondering how you can get even to First Crack if you don't get your roaster above 395?
Pima Canyon, the temps will all vary based on your roaster. My Behmor reads totally different temps than my drum roaster. Same with the Fresh Roast. First crack range measuring true bean temp should take place between 380-390 for most coffees. This can vary based on batch size, Processing Type and how fast you are roasting the coffee. A City roast for me as you saw was about 397 degrees. I don't think the temps you are reading are actual bean temps. What roaster are you using again?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks. Yeah, I thought about it some more after I wrote this and I'm thinking that your Behmor temp reading must be something like exhaust temp rather than the temp of the drum. The beans have to get to at least 425 for a decent roast, so there's gotta be something in your roaster that gets at least that hot, but the temp measuring device is not taking that temp, but something else inside the roaster. I'm using a FreshRoast SR 540. I find that the temp reading on that roaster comes pretty close to bean temp, at least what I'm suspecting is bean temp because of the degree of roast I end up with. I've been doing roasts that are generally in the City to Full City range, which according to my chart would have bean temp of 425 to 438.
The FreshRoast temperature readings are taken from the "inlet" where the heat is being blown out at the bottom of the roaster. If your probe is anywhere near that you will not be reading bean temps. The hot air will influence the probe, skewing the true bean temp. The Ikawa Pro uses the inlet temp as the "exhaust" temp. The Bean temp probe is actually placed above the bean mass away from the inlet heat because of the problem I just described. Last night I roasted two roasts on my FreshRoast SR540. I roasted an Ethiopian Hambela natural. The first roast was 140 grams using an extension tube. When I dropped the coffee the Roaster temps were close to 450 degrees. This is not the bean temp or these beans would be charred. It was a city roast. See this page as a reference to temperatures. www.giesen.com/knowledge-base/first-crack/ On my Behmor, the factory temperature sensors are NOT reading bean temp so you have their "B" temp which reads tems on the upper side of the roaster. When i placed my probes inside the Behmor, I would get much different readings depending on where i placed them. I was reading 700 degrees near the orange light. The bottom line is we can't compare temperatures. Each roaster will be differernt; even the same models. So, we do just what you are doing Pima, we get to know our roaster and how it reads temps and reference them in context with the roast color, smell and sounds we hear as well as how fast our roast progression is. When you watch my videos, reference times and color when comparing. Otherwise, it will drive you nuts.
Does anyone know a program like artisin but without temp probes? Maybe something you enter the numbers in manually? I write it all down and then go into a google sheet and create graphs, this is very tedious and im curious if there is a better way :)?
I think I have a Google sheet a viewer of this channel made . It calculates your roast, you just need to plug in your event times I think. I’m traveling currently but will look for it tomorrow. I did provide a link to the sheet quite a few months ago in the description of one of my videos
Ok, this is what I was thinking about. It was meant to be used for air roasting but it can be used to log roast data from any roaster. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dhcEMDZvG-Rytswq6ZutOzc-ztCLgqRZiAYxv3wVbGA/template/preview
We do have a small coffee farm here in the Philippines, and we also processed our coffee.. is it possible that I can share you atleast 1kilo of our GCB and roast it and make a review?
Hello Ikhwanul. Thank you for watching my video and for sharing here in the comments area! Yes, I do reference the percentage of development time. It helps me understand how much time is spent in development compared to the total roast time. In many cases it can tell me how much acidity i might expect in my cup. That percentage also helps me balance my roast (browning phase & development phase). It is always best to use that information in the context of your roast times in each phase, especially the browning phase and the development phase. When planning my roasts I focus on time and then see those times work out in my phase percentages. I always smell my coffee during the roast. I don't even have to use the trier during the early stages because the aroma is very obvious as far as detecting stages of the roast. The trier is most important to me during the development phase. You can actually smell the coffee changing. Pretty amazing stuff. Some types of coffee roasting machines don't have a way to pull out a little coffee and smell it during the roast. But, many of those machines are venting aromas and you can still get some helpful aromas to know when you want the coffee dropped.
Thanks so much for the video, i just picked up some "BRAZIL ORGANIC FAZENDA DUTRA NATURAL RED CATUAI" and did a much higher charge temp than you (215c). I am 100% gonna give the low charge temp a whirly, gonna try around 190c. thank you for all your informative videos!
You are roasting on the Bullet right? What batch size are you using? Did you find your 215c was too hot and fast? I think a lower heat might be better with that coffee. It is a natural. Is it a lower density bean? If yes, you may want to look carefully at your beans for roasting defects. How dark are you roasting? What is your total roast time?
Hi, I am a coffee farmer in Kenya, interested in doing business with you. I can send you samples of my coffee you try roasting it out and check out its taste. Thanks.
One of favorites beans! Thanks for the temp conversion too!!🥳
Yea, lots of Brazilian coffee lovers out there. It was a very nice coffee and I have 4 more lbs to roast. I wish I could display both Celsius and Fahrenheit at the same time. Glad my Celsius display was helpful.
Thanks so much for the F to C conversions!
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
I occasionally watched your videos for entertainment, but my wife was the roaster in the family, going from a popper to air to the Behmore. Just a few days ago, we received our Kaffelogic Nano 7. Now, because I’m the tech person in the house, I’m the roaster!
The Nano 7 is a real game changer. In the past, we always roasted outside, adding inconsistencies. My wife basically just adjusted the “drop” time, based on feel. It was all very analog and magic. The Nano 7, on the other hand, works great under the kitchen hood. It has set-and-forget repeatability, so the 1/5 lb batches (91g) are no problem.
One of the experts a Kaffelogic recommends finding a profile that hits 1st crack at about 6:30. Their out-of-the-box Level 3.1 was much too dark for me. Level 1.0 has worked well - and sure enough, worth Level 1.0 on an appropriate stock profile, that has been delivering 50%, 30%, 20% time ratios or so.
I’m going to continue to learn from your videos, build profiles, and keep logs. I’m just touching the surface (but not the WARNING HOT SURFACE! 😁)
A nice thing is that once I have custom profiles stored, my wife will be roasting again. Just pour in 91g, select the listed profile and level, and hit “play”. Empty the excellent chaff collector, and repeat. So easy and predictable! The batches might be small, but the ease of use makes it a moot point for home roasting.
Thanks for your great videos!
Ah yes, it finally arrived. Congratulations! A programmable air roaster. Sounds kind of like the IKAWA a little. I’m glad you are getting good results. Out with the magic and in with technology. Now you can easily experiment with different coffee profiles! Will you roast all your different origins using the same profile?
I will definitely use different profiles. Step 1 is to choose a reasonable profile and try it. I can write down the color change and log first crack, then manually end the roast at a reasonable time. Next, I would scale the profile to get first crack at 6:30 or so, and stop the roast with the target development time. Finally, I might change the start of the curve to adjust the dry point. At least that’s where I am now.
How can I customize it further to bring out sweetness? What would I do if the bean temp is wiggly? I’m not sure. Yet.
Right now, I can focus on good first crack timing and when to end development. And I’m just touching on adjusting dry time. This is already a big step from what we could control before. And the workflow is frictionless.👍
Once you get use to the controls and can control the roaster to reach events like dry, FC and drop at specific times, you can start to experiment by moving your event times. For example, lets say you reach dry at 4 minutes, consider reaching FC at 7:15 ot 7:30. keep your development time at about 1:45 ish. You decide what temperature/color to take your coffee for the end of roast temp. By moving these time around you will notice your coffee will taste differently. I would only make one change at a time to know how it impacts your cup. Have fun. Whatever you do, don't limit your roasting to what others tell you, like 6:30 for FC. You might find a better profile that works for you.
We also have that Fazenda Natural here in our roastery/cafe. One of our fast moving coffees for pourover. We also blend it with our washed Colombian cauca for our espresso. 👌👌👌
Sounds delicious. It is a nice coffee and I’m looking forward to roasting it again! What are you roasting your coffee with?
I am new to coffee roasting and I am glad I came across this video. The beans I am roasting now are very similar to this. Now I just have to translate everything to my skywalker roaster.
hi Randy,
yes, this was an interesting bean to roast. It really required me to try and control my roaster. i think the concepts, timing of the roast and end results were pretty good for the first roast. You might want to consider lengthening the middle phase about 20-30 seconds.
thanks for watching my video and for being a subscriber!
That was awesome! Thank you for sharing all your Knowledge and taking us with you on your Coffee-roasting-journey. It really means a lot to a lot of people! Keep going. Your Motivation and Knowledge is an Inspiration to a lot of us! Thank you!!
Thanks Jan. I appreciate the encouragement :-)
Thanks Mike: Educating. Currently in the process of learning a new drum roaster & using Artisan. Graduated after 6-years of using a Behmor. I'm finding your channel helpful; gives me something to aspire too. 😎
That is awesome Craig! What roaster are you using now? How is your roasting going?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Bought the Kaleido M6, it's powerful and responsive when doing a 500g batch. Very happy with it, only 10-roast with it under my belt, Central & South American coffees. Right out of the chute, I'm close to my targets. Pour overs & espressos taste considerably better compared to my 17-minute Behmor 1lb roasts. Had lots of good coffee roasted in my Behmor, but can really tell the difference using the M6. An electric roaster makes sense for me, house runs on solar power, SWFL has ample sunshine year round. 😎
Sorry for the late reply. I have been traveling. The M6 seems like a pretty sweet roaster. I would really like to hear more about your roaster after you have had a little more time using it. I would love to do a review on one of these roasters. Where did you buy yours?
Oh boy, you know I really like these kinds of videos, Mike! An unedited recording like this shows us many, many things about roasting. You even have demonstrated how easy it is to get distracted by something in a roast, causing something else to be affected. That and other things in the video gives us many valuable learning points. Although I am currently roasting manually (meaning without a computer attached), I can see how valuable it is to see projected temperatures. I also like the B-camera shots as they show us much more about all the things that are going on during roasting like using the trier, and they just make the video nicer!
What control item would you say most quickly controls temperature when it's a little off, fan speed or heat? On my Bullet, I would have to say fan speed has an almost immediate effect whereas heat control is delayed a bit. But it seems having quick control to change temperature is not always a good thing. If I can, I try to see things early enough that I can use heat control to slowly change temperature.
Do you think being 15 seconds or so longer than you planned in the Maillard Phase made any difference in the taste of the coffee? Great video Mike!
Hi Lou, thanks for the encouraging words. I'm glad the video was helpful! Now, on to your questions. When I am "in trouble" with higher temps than I want, I pull the emergency brake which is my fan. I don't like using the fan to do that because it potentially could drop the ROR too much, which I don't want. In the case of this roast I should have turned up my fan to the high setting just before first crack or even before. That would have helped me keep my temps in check a little more I think. The combination of the lower density as well as the natural process should have been my clue to watch this a little more carefully.
Because my middle phase was longer than i originally had planned I think the acidity was softened a little. I wish i could get a little more berry in the cup but may the slightly longer Maillard time could have toned that down? I'm not sure. This is one area in my roasting ability where I actually have to test and taste to really know the impact.
.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom.could you talk more about changing temperature versus bean density.or starting temperature versus altitude?again thank you so much.
Hi James. Generally, the higher the altitude, the cooler the atmosphere, the slower the growth of the cherry which creates a more dense seed. The density can influence flavor. You tend to see more fruity and floral coffee notes from higher elevations.
As far as charge temperatures or temperatures overall, denser coffees are less prone towards roasting defects because of higher temperatures. Lower density coffees usually use the “low and slow” approach. Low temps as the coffee is introduced to the roasting environment and slow roast times (generally longer total roast times.
There are always exceptions to the rule. I did a video on coffee bean density as well as a couple on coffee roasting temperatures. You might want to check those out. They could be helpful.
I think that the berry note that you’re looking for gets transformed into earthiness.
I think it might be a heat transfer problem during the Maillard phase.
I was getting a lot of blueberry-chocolate notes when I was roasting at elevation (Ethiopia, El Salvador, and Costa Rica naturals) on 450g batches on a behmore.
Came down to sea level and experienced way more earthy notes on the same greens and recipes. I was expecting fruit-berry-tart-chocolate.
I’ve since reduced my batches to 300 grams and am getting juicier and fruity bodies. I believe there’s a bean mass threshold that buffers that coffee mucilage from being scorched too quickly and being leveled out into earthy notes. Enough beans can add a new variable to the heat transfer problem that almost preserves fruitier profiles through the roast. More beans = less efficient heating… which isn’t always bad as long as you have enough momentum going into 1st crack.
Thank you for your roast tutorial, you are extremely helpful.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this roast, Michael. I really appreciate that. I agree that batch size can really influence the cup. I think the primary advantage of smaller batch sizes is to be able to speed up the total roast time. One of the things I’ve experienced with to be more is when I roast larger batch sizes the roast takes a lot longer, and I don’t get some of the fruit that I hoping for.
In the case of this Brazil natural, the fruit I was expecting, was from the natural process. Generally speaking Brazilian coffees aren’t known for their fruit as much as they are for their chocolate and nutty notes. If I would’ve gone for a shorter total roast time I may have been able to bring out some of that fruit they talked about in the tasting notes but I didn’t get it. Maybe it was transformed into that earthiness.
Thanks for sharing and watching!
Sounds very interesting, where can I get a hold of some of these beans?
Thanks for watching my video. These brazil natural beans can be purchased through cafe imports. I bought mine from a local coffee roastery.
Great video! I really like the real time roasts, and the theory beforehand to use as a roadmap of sorts. Really like the use of the second camera in this one also!
Thanks for watching. I’m glad you liked the video and extra camera. What are you roasting with?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab currently roasting on an sr800 with OEM extension tube and razzo chaff collector upgrade, and a hive roaster.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab the sr800 is basically brand new, only have 4 roasts in. Your videos have been super helpful!
Nice roasters. I love the Hive. I've got the chaff collector on my sr540. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Mike. Thanks for keeping it real. If every roast you did was perfect to plan, I'd probably be questioning my own abilities. Appreciate the way you stress "philosophies" of roasting. Having such a different roaster than you (FR SR-800), it would be hard to correlate my equipment from yours otherwise. Watching your videos always makes me think, which in turn, raises questions. Here goes: 1.) You stated that Artisan was predicting ~ 5 minute dry end time on this roast. Being that dry end is really a visual thing, how can it know that? Are there roasting parameters that you put in beforehand to enable it to predict that? 2.) You ended up with a development % of just under 14%. Your plan was to hit 15%, so this was obviously intentional. Did you plan that strictly to avoid going too dark? Are there other ways to avoid going too dark, but still have a higher (~20%) development %? What negatives are there in having such a low development %? Thanks again for doing what you do. My coffee is better for it.
Great comments as always J. I Make mistakes, that’s one way I learn.
I do have a temp set for dry. It is an indicator for me not a hard event point. It helps me predict. Depending on my momentum and charge weight that dry end temp can vary +- 20 degrees. Usually when I roast 1 lb it’s about 330 degrees and 500 grams is about 340 degrees. I think I have it set to 340? Not sure. Before I started my roast and artisan I predicted my dry time. I can do that because I know my roaster, and the coffee density/process. That info also helped me use a charge temp that was 15 degrees lower than my typical charge temp for 1 lb of coffee. Artisans prediction/estimate is based on my temps and ror as it heads towards the temp I have set. It serves as a nice reference as I am roasting.
The decision to drop the coffee at that point was a combination of my development time, percentage and bean temp.
Development time - I wanted 1:30 dropped at 1:21 because my by was higher than I wanted. That was the primary reason.
Development percentage - 13.9 is as good as 14% in my book 😃. I don’t think I said 15%. I sis say 3 min - 3:15 just before talking about my development time of 1:30. Phase percentages are really helpful guides but things can get skewed when you have really short or really long roast times.
Bean temp - this is the most important factor in keeping your coffee from going dark. You can’t have a light roast coffee with a bean temp that is 430 on my roaster. Honestly you can’t have a lighter roast at 400 either. I choose 395 drop temp because I knew that would give me a color that would be on the lighter side of medium. I correlate bean temp and color together for my roast level. I went over by 2, almost 3’degrees. I could have hit the 395 temp if I wouldn’t have had that flick just before FC and at the beginning of development I might have been able to hit 395. A lower ROR during development would have helped achieve my goal.
Development without going dark - man, that is one aspect of roasting I chase after almost ever time I roast. A lower ROR during development is key to accomplishing this. The risks are dragging your roast through development and causing a flattened flavor profile. So, you can go 20% and have a lower temp by using this method. You can also roast lighter and still have a nicely developed coffee but this is challenging. Generally, lighter roasts have a bit more acidity. That is one of the beauties of development. We use this phase to balance our roast and to turn the flavor wheel to craft our cup!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I see what you're saying. Agree with risking flat coffee by dragging out the roast too long just to fit a desired roast %. I learned that lesson the hard way a while back. When I mentioned 15%, I was referring to the graphic you had near the start of your video. Your pre-roast plan called for a 10:00 total roast time with a 1:30 development, which equates to 15%.
Thanks . Yea, you sure are paying attention J. You are right, that does equate to 15%. Good call. And I dis drop early mostly because of temp.
This is good timing because I too am roasting a Brazilian natural for the first time
What type of roaster are you using?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I’m using the BocaBoca 250
Thanks for your reply. How do you like your roaster? What are the things you like or dislike about it?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab it’s a pleasure to chat with you! I like that it is silent so it’s easy to hear the cracks, you can see color changes easily, simple controls (shut off timer, temp), the cooling tray can cool a batch in a few minutes, easy to clean, good price. I don’t like chaff removal, it awkwardly collects below the heating element/reflector plate (it’s an IR heater), replacement parts have to come from South Korea via eBay, back to back roasts are challenging. You have to allow time in between roasts or it will shut down
@@VirtualCoffeeLab forgot to mention, the thermometer is a regular thermometer, I want to see if I can get something in there that can spin on the axis with the drum, or be wireless or something. Right now I read temps by eye and I wrote a small command line program to track my input and do the math for weight loss and graph temps I enter
Great video once again Mike, very helpful, l have the same coffee here that lve been using also.
Nice. Is that one of the regulars you roast, like the colombian ?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab it's one of the other favorites
I have been watching your videos for a few months and I've got it on repeat after recently buying my M10. It's amazing how one can start picking details after each watch and practice session. Brazil natural beans was first choice to learn roasting on and just can't get them from either light burn or under developed or overdeveloped. Whilst I am working my way through my 18th roast, comparing this video on your Gas roaster, would you do anything different when you roast on your M10 roaster? Would you be able to do us a Brazil natural on the M10 ?
Hi Clyde. Thanks for being a subscriber and for your comment. Congrats on your M10. Are you running 220v? The M10 roasts differently than my Mill City gas roaster. It has a higher capacity and air system.
Honestly i wouldn't start with the brazil natural. It is a challenging bean, especially when you are trying to figure out your roaster. But, you've gone this far, let's try and figure it out.
Because there are so many variables, i would need to know more about your roast profile. Please share:
Bean Info (name, density)
Batch size
Charge temp
first crack temp
drop temp
Your desired roast level
Please tell me how you are managing your airflow. What are you starting with, at charge and do you change it during the roast. Please include your air settings at each of your events. Once you reply I will try and offer some suggestions.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike, Thank you for your quick response and appreciate your help. The M10 is a 220V here in the UK. The El Dorado farm brazilian beans have been challenging but i have managed to finally get sweet ripe aromas after 3-5 days of storage but it lacks the taste flavours where i get a bitter yet acidic finish(apologies still training my taste buds).
These are Red Catuaí from Alto Mogiana Mineira region grown at 1205m altitude where i am meant to get 'Tasting Notes: Medium acidity with aromas of hazelnut. Really sweet & fruity with strong notes of mango and chocolate.'
Here is my last best profile: 400g batch and i would like a medium roast,
Charge at 172'C with Fan 10% and when beans drop turn heat 10%
TP: (90-96)'C @ 56 secs then turn heat 90% (To get a high ROR)
@2:00 drop heat 85%
@3:00 drop heat 80%
DryEnd: 150'C @ 4:30 mins and then drop heat to 75% (aim for 150'C@5min)
@5:30 drop heat to 70%
@6:30 drop heat to 65%
FCs: 180'C @ 7:30 drop heat 60% and Fan 50% (aim for 180'C@8min)
FCe: 199'C @ 8:40 drop heat gradually to 40% and Fan to 80% at FCe
Drop: 203'c @ 9:10 (aim for drop at 18-20% development)
Usually i aim for 50/30/20 development with a nice BTror which rises and then follows the gradual smooth decrease .
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Mike, I’m looking forward to your thought please. Cheers, Clyde
Hello Clyde, I'm sorry i missed your response. Many times RUclips doesn't notify me of replies to my replies. Looking at the profile it is a great starting point to work from. It sounds like you are able to control your roaster. I'm not a fan of soaking with the Kaleido. It doesn't have as much hot metal as my Mill City. It seems to be working for you though so good job. If you didn't do a soak I would charge with a lower temperature (something like 160), keep on the power, and stretch out the entire roast from a total roast time of 9 minutes and 10 seconds to something more like 11 minutes. This is the "Low and Slow" approach. Your overall ROR degree of descent is lower. Your overall ROR peak is lower. The result will be a longer dry, browning, and development time.
The dry time isn't as critical as the browning and development. Aim for a 3 min and 45 second browning time and a 2 minute development time. See how that impacts the cup.
What temperature is being measured for the Drop temp? Reason I ask is that my experience is that first crack doesn't even start until around 400 and doesn't really get going until 410. My roast chart shows City roast at 425 and Full City at 438. Those temps are the temperature of the beans I believe. So I'm wondering how you can get even to First Crack if you don't get your roaster above 395?
Pima Canyon, the temps will all vary based on your roaster. My Behmor reads totally different temps than my drum roaster. Same with the Fresh Roast. First crack range measuring true bean temp should take place between 380-390 for most coffees. This can vary based on batch size, Processing Type and how fast you are roasting the coffee. A City roast for me as you saw was about 397 degrees. I don't think the temps you are reading are actual bean temps. What roaster are you using again?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks. Yeah, I thought about it some more after I wrote this and I'm thinking that your Behmor temp reading must be something like exhaust temp rather than the temp of the drum. The beans have to get to at least 425 for a decent roast, so there's gotta be something in your roaster that gets at least that hot, but the temp measuring device is not taking that temp, but something else inside the roaster. I'm using a FreshRoast SR 540. I find that the temp reading on that roaster comes pretty close to bean temp, at least what I'm suspecting is bean temp because of the degree of roast I end up with. I've been doing roasts that are generally in the City to Full City range, which according to my chart would have bean temp of 425 to 438.
The FreshRoast temperature readings are taken from the "inlet" where the heat is being blown out at the bottom of the roaster. If your probe is anywhere near that you will not be reading bean temps. The hot air will influence the probe, skewing the true bean temp. The Ikawa Pro uses the inlet temp as the "exhaust" temp. The Bean temp probe is actually placed above the bean mass away from the inlet heat because of the problem I just described.
Last night I roasted two roasts on my FreshRoast SR540. I roasted an Ethiopian Hambela natural. The first roast was 140 grams using an extension tube. When I dropped the coffee the Roaster temps were close to 450 degrees. This is not the bean temp or these beans would be charred. It was a city roast.
See this page as a reference to temperatures. www.giesen.com/knowledge-base/first-crack/
On my Behmor, the factory temperature sensors are NOT reading bean temp so you have their "B" temp which reads tems on the upper side of the roaster. When i placed my probes inside the Behmor, I would get much different readings depending on where i placed them. I was reading 700 degrees near the orange light.
The bottom line is we can't compare temperatures. Each roaster will be differernt; even the same models. So, we do just what you are doing Pima, we get to know our roaster and how it reads temps and reference them in context with the roast color, smell and sounds we hear as well as how fast our roast progression is. When you watch my videos, reference times and color when comparing. Otherwise, it will drive you nuts.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks! I appreciate your taking the time to reply.
I've just ordered 2.5kg 5.5 pounds of this coffee
Wonderful. I’m sure you will enjoy it.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks, and I have another 2.2 pounds/1kg due with in days :)
Does anyone know a program like artisin but without temp probes? Maybe something you enter the numbers in manually? I write it all down and then go into a google sheet and create graphs, this is very tedious and im curious if there is a better way :)?
I think I have a Google sheet a viewer of this channel made . It calculates your roast, you just need to plug in your event times I think. I’m traveling currently but will look for it tomorrow. I did provide a link to the sheet quite a few months ago in the description of one of my videos
Ok, this is what I was thinking about. It was meant to be used for air roasting but it can be used to log roast data from any roaster.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dhcEMDZvG-Rytswq6ZutOzc-ztCLgqRZiAYxv3wVbGA/template/preview
@@VirtualCoffeeLab this is awesome, thanks so much! And thanks to the community member who created it!
Mike G. graciously shared his coffee roasting worksheet as seen in my video here ruclips.net/video/IL3cSLS9g_Y/видео.html
Some air fryer and brazilian coffe ?
Air fryers can roast some good coffee.
Hi I'd love to see some roasts on a Gene Cafe roaster please
🤔
We do have a small coffee farm here in the Philippines, and we also processed our coffee.. is it possible that I can share you atleast 1kilo of our GCB and roast it and make a review?
Please contact me using the about link on my channel. There is an option to email me.
Most of roaster that i watched on youtube, they dont use percentage on dev time, and they also use their nose to smell haha.
Hello Ikhwanul. Thank you for watching my video and for sharing here in the comments area! Yes, I do reference the percentage of development time. It helps me understand how much time is spent in development compared to the total roast time. In many cases it can tell me how much acidity i might expect in my cup. That percentage also helps me balance my roast (browning phase & development phase). It is always best to use that information in the context of your roast times in each phase, especially the browning phase and the development phase. When planning my roasts I focus on time and then see those times work out in my phase percentages.
I always smell my coffee during the roast. I don't even have to use the trier during the early stages because the aroma is very obvious as far as detecting stages of the roast. The trier is most important to me during the development phase. You can actually smell the coffee changing. Pretty amazing stuff. Some types of coffee roasting machines don't have a way to pull out a little coffee and smell it during the roast. But, many of those machines are venting aromas and you can still get some helpful aromas to know when you want the coffee dropped.
Thanks so much for the video, i just picked up some "BRAZIL ORGANIC FAZENDA DUTRA NATURAL RED CATUAI" and did a much higher charge temp than you (215c). I am 100% gonna give the low charge temp a whirly, gonna try around 190c. thank you for all your informative videos!
You are roasting on the Bullet right? What batch size are you using? Did you find your 215c was too hot and fast? I think a lower heat might be better with that coffee. It is a natural. Is it a lower density bean? If yes, you may want to look carefully at your beans for roasting defects.
How dark are you roasting? What is your total roast time?
Hi, I am a coffee farmer in Kenya, interested in doing business with you. I can send you samples of my coffee you try roasting it out and check out its taste.
Thanks.
Hello Gumo. Are you working with an importer now? Do you sell direct to the consumer? Do you have a website?