BTW, In 1935, the federal government passed an "anti- holding company law" called PUHCA, which forced all electric utility companies that operated streetcars to divest themselves of their trolley properties- which were also gobbled up by National City Lines. Coincidence? Simultaneously, New York City's Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia blackmailed streetcar companies into surrendering their "perpetual streetcar franchises" in exchange for "time limited" bus franchises- purchasing all bus equipment, fuel, and tires, from NCL's parent companies. The city had also been forcing the streetcar companies to pay for roadway maintenance, and provide snow removal "between their rails". The inflation that followed on the heels of WWI doubled the cost of labor. Hence, the need to create "single person operated streetcars" like the Peter Witt, and finally the ubiquitous PCC. As an aside, the standard nickel fare of circa 1914 is equivalent to a fare of $3.00 in today's money. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Holding_Company_Act_of_1935
In many areas the city had rate regulation rules that prevented the lines , like the Utilities are, from raising rates. Some cities kept the fares at a nickel so long the companies that built the lines and maintained the system went broke. The NCL type companies then bought them cheaply. The last time I checked a freedom of information act on the original court case investigation still had names redacted 60 years later. One was the name of a Tampa Fl politician that got a Cadillac from GM fir a certain vote....
Let's not forget that the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935 (PUHCA) forced electric power companies to sell off their electric streetcar subsidiaries- then picked up by NCL "at distressed prices". Whenever NCL purchased a streetcar company, the contract stated that "the only form of motive power permitted shall be the internal combustion engine". This proviso was mentioned in one of the NCL case appeals.
Maybe, but back in the day, 90% of Philly’s N-S streets, and 50% of its E-W streets had streetcar lines, so while what is left is great, it’s only a fraction of what was. And streetcars are only as clean as their source of electricity; if coal is powering the agency, then the streetcars are running on coal. The other problem with buses is that they stop too much, many cities are fixing this by installing Busways, where the bus is isolated in its own lane, so it doesn’t face traffic congestion and it also stops less frequently, which gets rid of that problem. BUT, one of the arguments for this is fake: Yes, it’s cheaper to build a busway than a streetcar line, but over time, streetcars that run on rails require less maintenance, have less wear and tear and thus are ultimately less expensive (unless of course you’re San Francisco where it took nearly 7 years to build a busway, going far over budget and ending up costing almost as much as a subway line, if not the subway line SF still hasn’t managed to get open). Yeah, it was a bad decision back then, but remember, like today, as the planet dies, the politicians were only following the people, and like then, the people wanted to drive.
Nearly all the private transportation companies had already converted many of their track miles converted to buses because they're cheaper. Also nearly all the private transportation companies were in or near receivership. NCL never purchased the Pacific Electric. Except for a couple of years during WWII, the PE never made a profit on passenger fares.
1987. This should be seen for what it is, an historical document and one with outdated information. The fee for riding streetcars was five cents, five cents from the late 19th century well into the 20th. Streetcar service expanded, other services like snow removal along lines continued to be required, but no elected official would dare allow fares to rise (the companies themselves were about as corrupt as one could imagine and so had little public sympathy) as a result, no streetcar company in America turned a profit after the mid-20’s. Yes, like all great conspiracy theories, there is a grain of truth in this: A combination of oil, rubber and car companies did get together to form the National Cities transit company (Rosa Park’s famous bus wore it’s yellow and green livery, as did buses and streetcars in LA) and bought up streetcar companies across the nation BUT they bought up companies already in bankruptcy or heading there, not just any rail company. They were vultures picking the bones of the dead, not predators taking down the healthy. Moreover, just as we see today, as the PNW burns like California and NYC has hurricanes like Miami, while there is little political leadership in standing up to those who drive cars today, there was only encouragement to private drivers back then as cities not only let their streetcar companies go, and tore up tracks, they also tore down their cities to make ever more parking, until, like Houston and Lincoln Neb, there was practically no city left to see.
I remember recording this story on my VCR. We are from Los Angeles and my father was a huge, huuuuuuuge train geek. He often lamented the loss of the Red Cars. He was tickled to see this story on 60 minutes and I taped it for him and he watched it more than once.
Actually it's been growing and growing again. I take the train to LA. In fact, I just got rid of my car because it's cheaper to uber to the train station and take the train to LA. And a lot less stressful.
There are some inaccuracies and significant omissions in this 60 Minutes episode. Pacific Electric was established as a loss leader to help sell real estate. The passenger part rarely was profitable, freight was. By the time National City Lines (NCL) became involved Pacific Electric had been sold to the LA system. As for Philadelphia, the report is incorrect since NCL had purchased Philadelphia Transit and beginning ca 1957 had begun wholesale conversion to busses.
Los Angeles was one of the cities where NCL kept and made money on some streetcar lines. The last ones weren't shut down until the city government took them over, and well after the supposed "conspiracy".
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for public transportation in ALL FORMS. I agree there was more to this conspiracy after all is any business supposed to go under if not profitable? I love streetcars yes they are charming & clean burning. Though so are the new latest technology built buses. Yes even there was electric trolleybuses too. Nothing is mentioned here that streetcar infrastructure is expensive to maintain & buses for all it's good & bad are yes more flexible when there is obstruction ahead. Who saves streetcars, subways, or trains when they are down for mechanical or other obstruction? Yes a bus! Now for what it's worth the bus itself has it's flaws & weaknesses as well. It's sad many this day don't look @ it in a broader prospective. What killed streetcars & yes even buses? Private automobiles & cheap gasoline.
You lost me John. Missing a few words aren't you? What's your argument. "Try leaving watever backwater during heap you live in, and travel so you can see how well rail serves public transportation needs." I'm only quoting what you posted however either your misspelling or grammar has me all wondering what you are trying to say!
modern Electric Street cars need LITTLE Maintanance or Repairs compared to ICE buses. Electric Streetcar should be the core System , with Electric Buses filling in where the Streetcar cannot go .
"Nothing is mentioned here that streetcar infrastructure is expensive to maintain" - no its not, once you build the rails they're solid and need little work for years. How much work do roads need with resurfacing and potholes?
The government had no case. The charges were about the financing deals that the companies offered to National City Lines in exchange for being exclusive suppliers- no different from how restaurant franchises operate- and absolutely nothing to do with streetcars. The defendants settled just to cut the legal costs and the prosecutors did so because going further would have turned out to be an embarrassment. The judge wanted to overdose on aspirin by the bitter end.
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](/img/1.gif)
The engines had tetra ethyl lead in them too. So we went from electric, to major health issues.
Desiels don’t use leaded gas
BTW, In 1935, the federal government passed an "anti- holding company law" called PUHCA, which forced all electric utility companies that operated streetcars to divest themselves of their trolley properties- which were also gobbled up by National City Lines. Coincidence? Simultaneously, New York City's Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia blackmailed streetcar companies into surrendering their "perpetual streetcar franchises" in exchange for "time limited" bus franchises- purchasing all bus equipment, fuel, and tires, from NCL's parent companies. The city had also been forcing the streetcar companies to pay for roadway maintenance, and provide snow removal "between their rails". The inflation that followed on the heels of WWI doubled the cost of labor. Hence, the need to create "single person operated streetcars" like the Peter Witt, and finally the ubiquitous PCC. As an aside, the standard nickel fare of circa 1914 is equivalent to a fare of $3.00 in today's money. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Holding_Company_Act_of_1935
BRING BACK THE TROLLEY!!!!!
Noisy, stinking, and polluting buses. That is 'progress'. BTW, Philadelphia and suburbs still have trolley lines.
Unreliable buses.
Government transport policy is anti-rail in general. Roads are not expected to be profitable to survive.
In many areas the city had rate regulation rules that prevented the lines , like the Utilities are, from raising rates.
Some cities kept the fares at a nickel so long the companies that built the lines and maintained the system went broke.
The NCL type companies then bought them cheaply.
The last time I checked a freedom of information act on the original court case investigation still had names redacted 60 years later.
One was the name of a Tampa Fl politician that got a Cadillac from GM fir a certain vote....
Let's not forget that the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935 (PUHCA) forced electric power companies to sell off their electric streetcar subsidiaries- then picked up by NCL "at distressed prices". Whenever NCL purchased a streetcar company, the contract stated that "the only form of motive power permitted shall be the internal combustion engine". This proviso was mentioned in one of the NCL case appeals.
streetcars and interurbans: *exist*
General Motors: ITS FREE REAL ESTATE
Maybe, but back in the day, 90% of Philly’s N-S streets, and 50% of its E-W streets had streetcar lines, so while what is left is great, it’s only a fraction of what was. And streetcars are only as clean as their source of electricity; if coal is powering the agency, then the streetcars are running on coal. The other problem with buses is that they stop too much, many cities are fixing this by installing Busways, where the bus is isolated in its own lane, so it doesn’t face traffic congestion and it also stops less frequently, which gets rid of that problem. BUT, one of the arguments for this is fake: Yes, it’s cheaper to build a busway than a streetcar line, but over time, streetcars that run on rails require less maintenance, have less wear and tear and thus are ultimately less expensive (unless of course you’re San Francisco where it took nearly 7 years to build a busway, going far over budget and ending up costing almost as much as a subway line, if not the subway line SF still hasn’t managed to get open). Yeah, it was a bad decision back then, but remember, like today, as the planet dies, the politicians were only following the people, and like then, the people wanted to drive.
We could easily go back to these if we wanted to.
Nearly all the private transportation companies had already converted many of their track miles converted to buses because they're cheaper. Also nearly all the private transportation companies were in or near receivership. NCL never purchased the Pacific Electric. Except for a couple of years during WWII, the PE never made a profit on passenger fares.
we also had trolleys but GM took over the trolleys and we got the diesel buses
They burned the trolleys
1987. This should be seen for what it is, an historical document and one with outdated information. The fee for riding streetcars was five cents, five cents from the late 19th century well into the 20th. Streetcar service expanded, other services like snow removal along lines continued to be required, but no elected official would dare allow fares to rise (the companies themselves were about as corrupt as one could imagine and so had little public sympathy) as a result, no streetcar company in America turned a profit after the mid-20’s. Yes, like all great conspiracy theories, there is a grain of truth in this: A combination of oil, rubber and car companies did get together to form the National Cities transit company (Rosa Park’s famous bus wore it’s yellow and green livery, as did buses and streetcars in LA) and bought up streetcar companies across the nation BUT they bought up companies already in bankruptcy or heading there, not just any rail company. They were vultures picking the bones of the dead, not predators taking down the healthy. Moreover, just as we see today, as the PNW burns like California and NYC has hurricanes like Miami, while there is little political leadership in standing up to those who drive cars today, there was only encouragement to private drivers back then as cities not only let their streetcar companies go, and tore up tracks, they also tore down their cities to make ever more parking, until, like Houston and Lincoln Neb, there was practically no city left to see.
You're absolutely wrong. My dad worked for GM and I know GM did everything to have them removed from cities.
I remember recording this story on my VCR. We are from Los Angeles and my father was a huge, huuuuuuuge train geek. He often lamented the loss of the Red Cars. He was tickled to see this story on 60 minutes and I taped it for him and he watched it more than once.
That was 30 years ago. Would be interesting to hear what’s happened in those 30 years.
NON much has Changed. no Progress in Restoring ELECTRIC Streetcars to Service.
Actually it's been growing and growing again. I take the train to LA. In fact, I just got rid of my car because it's cheaper to uber to the train station and take the train to LA. And a lot less stressful.
Checking up on this today: San Diego Metro www.sdmts.com/schedules-real-time-maps-and-routes/trolley
There are some inaccuracies and significant omissions in this 60 Minutes episode. Pacific Electric was established as a loss leader to help sell real estate. The passenger part rarely was profitable, freight was. By the time National City Lines (NCL) became involved Pacific Electric had been sold to the LA system. As for Philadelphia, the report is incorrect since NCL had purchased Philadelphia Transit and beginning ca 1957 had begun wholesale conversion to busses.
Los Angeles was one of the cities where NCL kept and made money on some streetcar lines. The last ones weren't shut down until the city government took them over, and well after the supposed "conspiracy".
GM was very much involved in removing streetcars and promoting cars and buses.
This is more propaganda from the powerful streetcar lobby;-)
The light rail & streetcar lobby is tiny compared to the highway lobby.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for public transportation in ALL FORMS. I agree there was more to this conspiracy after all is any business supposed to go under if not profitable? I love streetcars yes they are charming & clean burning. Though so are the new latest technology built buses. Yes even there was electric trolleybuses too. Nothing is mentioned here that streetcar infrastructure is expensive to maintain & buses for all it's good & bad are yes more flexible when there is obstruction ahead. Who saves streetcars, subways, or trains when they are down for mechanical or other obstruction? Yes a bus! Now for what it's worth the bus itself has it's flaws & weaknesses as well. It's sad many this day don't look @ it in a broader prospective. What killed streetcars & yes even buses? Private automobiles & cheap gasoline.
You lost me John. Missing a few words aren't you? What's your argument. "Try leaving watever backwater during heap you live in, and travel so you can see how well rail serves public transportation needs." I'm only quoting what you posted however either your misspelling or grammar has me all wondering what you are trying to say!
modern Electric Street cars need LITTLE Maintanance or Repairs compared to ICE buses. Electric Streetcar should be the core System , with Electric Buses filling in where the Streetcar cannot go .
Public utilities are not a profit making business.
"Nothing is mentioned here that streetcar infrastructure is expensive to maintain" - no its not, once you build the rails they're solid and need little work for years. How much work do roads need with resurfacing and potholes?
Translation: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for public transportation in ALL FORMS but dont you think it sucks and buses and driving is better
The government had no case. The charges were about the financing deals that the companies offered to National City Lines in exchange for being exclusive suppliers- no different from how restaurant franchises operate- and absolutely nothing to do with streetcars. The defendants settled just to cut the legal costs and the prosecutors did so because going further would have turned out to be an embarrassment. The judge wanted to overdose on aspirin by the bitter end.