Thank you. I live 15 minutes away from Fairmont and went from excitement to despair when I saw Arcade1up instead of real machines in the news coverage. Local news doesn’t know the difference.
100% no for all the reasons you stated. Arcade1ups should be for home use only. If someone is going to open an arcade, they should do it the right way or don’t do it at all IMO. Awesome topic and thank you so much for sharing your opinion on this. I personally value your opinion a ton and have a lot of appreciation for what you do 🙏🏼 keep it up ✊🏻🔥
Maybe if it was one of those kids' birthday party rental trailers that are usually filled with xboxes and beanbag chairs. That's the closest I can think of for a case for commercial use.
Agree as the payment is for the rental of said party company, not so 1Up cabs. Those could be used as an add on event like the bouncy house and cornhole.
This probably explains why a newly opened "Video arcade" near me just puts me off - it's all MAME and ticket machines, nothing worth actually going for
Since these 1Up's don't have real coin doors, how would they charge???? My father used to work in an actual arcade in the 70's-early 80's so every week we literally lived in the arcade at Rolling Acres Mall in Akron, so when I see arcades with 1Up machines I find it insulting. If they are used in a children's hospitals or haircut places or maybe a bar, but NOT an actual arcade.
Agree with everything except at 11:07 the Arcade1ups come with a clear control panel overlay now so the control panel graphics don't degrade. But yes I agree these are not commercial quality.
For whatever reason they still get that wrong. They have extra big holes in the acrylic, meaning the buttons are sunken into them instead of sitting on them. sharp edges that attract grime. It's probably a problem of getting the acrylic to the factory that assembles the control panels. I have no idea why it's still 'a thing' after so many years.
@@SoulforSale And a real cab still beats their recent stuff or the upcoming Pros. Do all you A1up diehards *really* think that A1ups are better than the originals? That's the impression I'm starting to get here.
20:50 yes you're totally right. Starting ilegally will definitely bring you more cash at first, but before you break even you're gonna be closed. that is called a flop. so you the best shot is rouing, then operating, as you said. and, the most important part... dont "eat" the money you farm, save it to buy more mashines. V
What are your thoughts on custom made arcades? I guess that would go inside the emulated category, but they are often cheaper than used arcade machines and come with functional coins slots often
Depends on what it's for. If it's a custom MAME machine, then that technically falls under the same umbrella as A1up as far as legality goes; But while those machines can be made with sturdier, better parts, there's another issue that pops-up. The general consumer that visits an arcade just wants to see a game they like, put in a coin, and play. They do not like reading, scrolling through menus, doing anything that might take a bit of time. If a custom cabinet for a legit arcade game/board, those can be good but it depends on what it is and how its handled. I've tried multi-games in the past (like a 60-in-1 cab that fell into my possession once - for free) that have a bunch of titles on them and they are duds, making at best $5 a week, usually less. I've not heard of anyone operating a MAME machine in an arcade with 3,000 titles on it doing any better although it's not super common for legit locations to do that (since it is technically illegal).
Problem is I see machines which run emulation accepting coins or using card readers. You wouldn't be able to tell unless you opened the machine up. Since they would be using everything legit. But yeah no one is policing this and some of the licenses are abandoned from what I can tell from some games. For example I don't see Atari going after Primal Rage cabinets still out for public use to collect money. So yeah.. Also I am starting to see at some places people using reproduction machines of current games which use stuff like Teknoparrot and people selling them for less then what Raw Thrills is selling them for home or public use.
In regards to old games, an OG board or cabinet doesn't need to worry about licensing, it's simply in regards to if you were to grab a cab, throw a computer in there and run ROMs on it, unless you bought a license for using that in an arcade, you're technically in the wrong, just as much as Teknoparroting an RT game (the issue is worse with new games though since those are actively being sold, so piracy does end up hurting companies like RT)
Heck I remember back in the day (we're talking 1992-93) there was a local arcade that had a section setup with regular Sega Genesis consoles to play games on with their own custom setup (not the MegaTech systems) just the regular consumer grade Genesis consoles connected to a banked counter with a line of monitors with arcade style joysticks and such they'd let you swap out carts yourself. You just paid by the time.
Sure that has been tried on rare occasion (still is once in a blue moon, mainly in 3rd world countries where major devs would have trouble enforcing the "no public commercial-use exhibition" rules of their games) but regardless the era, charging for time on console games was never a big money maker. Here's an attempt from 2009/10 from a company to officially put the Xbox 360 on a timer (they could change it to work with the PS3 too). The company didn't even last a year: ruclips.net/video/sVUtxaU8Q-g/видео.html
I saw a report from an arcade owner who said that his retro machines only pull in about $300-$600 per YEAR. He had several locations with 40-60 total machines, and showed that, for some locations, the math just doesn't support buying, maintaining, and powering ancient $3,000 cabinets. Considering the cost of the Arcade1ups, an arcade could devote them to the 80s era titles practically and without too much concern for heavy "commercial" use.
I have a couple of different videos that discusses retro arcades and their viability in today's market. No, they usually don't make that much. Part of it not being great when they earn poorly is that pricing on them is still out-of-whack - OG Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-man cabs from the 80s shouldn't be $3000, but that's what you often see. Get them for $1000 or less, then it's not so bad as they'll pay themselves off in a year or two. Setting aside the legal issue on using A1ups, the other thing is that when people go to an arcade, they are expecting to have as original or as close to it cabinet as is possible. Would you go to a Dave & Busters or similar place and prefer to see A1ups or originals for their retro games? Probably the latter. Any arcade that goes the A1up route might save a few bucks at first but I would be certain that those would end up making even less than any OG cab would, as most consumers would scoff at the thought.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Those are all valid points. Perhaps it is simply a case of the market no longer being there for these old games to be terribly profitable in an arcade settings. That is, nostalgia may be "valuable", but not necessarily "profitable". There is a huge arcade in a nearby shopping mall occupying the entire bottom floor of a vacant JCPennys which my wife and I checked out recently. Tons of new machines, a lot of cutting edge stuff. Only ONE "retro" game, a giant screen (8' wide) version of PacMan with all sorts of lights and effects. Nobody played it during our entire visit. I doubt it made enough to pay its electricity costs for the day. The Arcade1up games seem very popular, but I suspect that the people who BUY them are not the same people who would necessarily go out to a commercial arcade and PLAY them. And those who are even more "hardcore" about it and want to own "the real thing" will invest in genuine cabs to own at home. I see that some higher end recreation models are available, too, but at several times the cost of the Arcade1up stuff. Who does that leave to justify the presence of 45 year old machines in a modern arcade? Probably very few.
You can basically put anything in an arcade as long as you don't charge for it individually, as long as it is set to free play most states don't care. Never seen a business being shut down even with emulators. Cover charge to occupy the space is the loophole. If you don't support them using it , don't pay for it. Let the market decide.
No, no arcade has been closed due to emulators that I've heard of but the market has decided in those cases - they never make more or even the same as an arcade that does things the right way. 60-in-1s make next to nothing, they can't hold a candle to a Cruis'n Blast or a Halo. Same would go for A1ups - you can't find a single one that would draw in equal or better appeal than a proper full-sized arcade machine. Same could be said for VR. A few years ago you started seeing VR arcades pop-up all over the place; I even had a neighbor for a time that was one of them (called VR Junkies). They just grabbed a few HTC Vives with a curated bunch of content. Novel, for a time, then the novelty wore off and more people got headsets at home. All of the places like it in my area, including my neighbor, are now closed, yet my old school arcade is still in operation. Note that my neighbor closed in December 2019 before the pandemic - most he'd ever made in a month was $9k (which is a decent month for me). That said, specialized Location Based VR can make strong money - I've seen earnings of the Rabbids Big Ride VR game by LAI hauling in $8k a month by itself. You can't get it at home so the market sees there's more value than just throwing something that you can buy over at Walmart into a place and milking it. Using the restaurant analogy again, could a Michelin star place serve the McDonald's value menu? Sure, nothing stops them from doing so.. Will consumers reward them for it for very long? Nope. That's what I see when a venue uses A1ups.
I personally have 2 A1Ups in my apartment, but I also do have a Big Buck Hunter Reloaded (it was previously an HD cabinet for years) in the same unit. I don’t use any of them commercially. I also agree that A1Up’s shouldn’t be used commercially because they weren’t designed that way. I expect the real thing when I go to an arcade, and even to businesses that are not arcades primarily (such as movie theaters). Someone else also commented on the use of Teknoparrot for Raw Thrills games. I don’t have a problem with emulating modern arcade games like Super Bikes 2 or SuperCars (I’ve seen it done, there are plenty of videos out there), as long as they’re not being produced anymore. I’m all for software preservation, and I think it’s a nice thing to have to prevent something from becoming lost media. But when people start emulating things like Super Bikes 3 and Minecraft Dungeons Arcade, that’s not okay to me because they are actively hurting the companies that make those games by doing so. Maybe it’s unintentional, but it’s still not okay to me.
One issue I could add with using emulators on games that may not be in production anymore but are still hot sellers on the used market is that piracy hurts those distributors looking to resell cabs. Since the pandemic, they've come to rely on used sales much more than before, and used it a great alternative to starting an arcade up with everything new. But I get the sentiment behind it all - nobody wants to pay more than they have to
@@arcadeheroes_coinop That’s a great point too actually. I guess if something is really rare that most distributors aren’t selling it, due to age or other factors, then emulation would be a way to preserve the game. Personally I’m a fan of 90’s games from companies like Sega. It’s amazing how many concepts they had back then. Yeah you had drivers and shooters but then you had things like skiing, skateboarding, fishing, and even firefighting. Maybe they’re not my favorite games but it’s still really interesting because it feels like witnessing a piece of history.
Then are these custom Arcade businesses like "Extreme Arcades" or "Megacade" considered legal? They come with 50,000 games in a single cabinet. But not one game company has stopped them. And it seems like their business is doing very well making custom cabinets.
Not for commercial use, although I have seen a few saying that they will setup them up to take coins. For home use, I don't think it's technically legal either but as you mention - without any enforcement, it becomes legal. That said, even if it was legal, I would grab one of those systems for my business simply because they're earnings duds. I've never seen a case where some arcade places such a machine down and it makes money - my customers have a hard enough time figuring the Neo Geo MVS or exA out, much less something with near unlimited ROMs on it.
Great video and topic! I do have a question for you, don't you feel that person can update or modify the controls on Arcade1up cab would you still think their wouldn't last in a commercial setting?
@@arcadeheroes_coinop there isn't no state or federal law that prohibited use of arcade1up in a commercial setting anywhere in 50 states! Two, their might be small or might be a toy but for you make a video that tell people what to do with they product/arcade1up is wrong! Yes it isn't convenient to use these products outside the house/home but if bring joy to people isn't that point in gaming!
@@gothamcityarcade That's quite a different attitude you're coming at it with all of a sudden but I'll play. "No law" - Federal law 17 U.S. Code § 110 states the law that a company like Capcom or Bandai Namco would use to take you to court over this. Also look up laws regarding commercial licenses for cyber cafés. If you wish to fight such a thing in court you could but you would lose. There's a reason why these companies have separate licensing for home & commercial use and that reason is the law, which protects their IP from being exploited for gain in an unauthorized manner. Using A1ups in a business is exactly that, whether you like it or not. You say that me telling people not to break the law is wrong, all I can do is laugh. You're taking the stance of a ROM pirate, which is the immoral one here - I'm defending the reputation of the arcade industry. If we as a biz all start using A1ups with the weak excuse of "putting smiles on faces," it will wreck the biz. As I mentioned in another comment, would you really go to an upscale restaurant then be happy if they served you a frozen TV dinner? Perhaps you might be but a vast majority of people would not. No different in an arcade. As for "putting smiles on faces" - stop using this idiotic argument. Who in their right mind would ever prefer to play an Arcade 1up Big Buck Hunter or Terminator 2 or OutRun over the full-sized original thing? Zero instances where A1up wins here. As I said in the video, if you can't afford it then don't open one until you can. Use financing. This biz is not a way to get rich quick and those who think it is will regret it fast. Sorry that you don't want to hear that but it's the truth.
Absolutely agree! Arcade 1ups are toys. They are not arcade machines, they do not have anywhere near the quality of an original cab and they aren’t even tall enough. We run a Retro Arcade hire business here in the UK. We put on events as well as providing original classic cabs for private & corporate events. We would never get away with using arcade 1ups for an event. There are multiple venues opening up now using arcade 1ups it’s a joke. No way would we even consider using arcade 1Up toys for a business! We have spent years collecting original cabs and restoring them. This is just an easy way for anyone’s who’s no idea how to restore or maintain original cabinets to get into this business. Absolute joke!
Those Pandora coin op machines are the worst kinds of emulated pirate arcade crap. I only play a few games at a time and bad emulation with simplistic navigation makes Pandora a horrible choice.
@@JohnshiBRPG There is a local barcade here that has a few Pandora Boxes out for use and also a few 1ups, but they are more focused on being a "console barcade". There is a 2nd seperate barcade that is almost exclusive consoles, but has a few PCs also
I would put PB into the same category as any other emulated (usually MAME cabinet). I know that some might use them, and 60-in-1s, here and there but they are usually such a poor & confusing experience that they aren't worth the trouble. One other thing I forgot to mention in the video is input lag. I doubt that A1up is handling this in a decent way; Emulated setups certainly are not. For certain games, poor IL can ruin the experience.
I don't live in a country that sells Arcade1ups but from pictures and videos they look way too small and limp to be used commercially in an entertainement venue. On top of that, as you previously witnessed, legacy arcades don't do well and require maintenance so the retro world is not in a good state for anything outside of home. I think there is a desperate need for a big 4:3 display multigame cabinet. The ExA platform is unnecessarily overengineered and expensive for the kind of games it ended up running. The best shot so far comes from the korean iircade which has the best of both world as it wouldnt take a lot of space in an arcade centre or in a bar, their online store would be perfect for newcoming revenue sharing games while still being able to operate legally owned ROMs at whatever the price may be. But once again... the display is only 19" and the cabinet itself is still too small to be considered acceptable. The huge 50"-55" display cabinets however seems to be an acceptable size for commercial use and I think your 1st gen Exa isnt far from that buuut it's 16:9 which ruins the aesthetics and attractiveness for the masses. Up to a point where I wonder if it wouldn't be such a bad idea to consider going the SEGA Megalo 410 way instead since we can crop modern projectors to end up running on a huge 4:3 display like the old time while enjoying tons of games on a modern coin ops, certainly the opposite of what Arcade 1 Up and Exa offers.
I've seen iircade before but wasn't impressed. Just something kind of like A1up that's done some licensing for commercial, although I did forget to mention them in the video (because they're forgettable - without any kind of exclusive/enhanced software, I just find it hard to get excited about) To be fair, my exA's haven't been super lucrative at this point but I have seen numbers from other locations where they make a killing ($800+/wk, which something that it's dubious an iircade or Polycade would ever get close to). As I've explained before, exA is building up to bigger things, which takes time so I don't fault them for bringing along games that don't need massive amounts of CPU power to run. Granted, I'd love to see some games that push the platform but it takes money to do such a thing and they'd be stupid to go bankrupt on a risky pretty game that might not sell well when they can produce some sure-hits. As for displays, I have seen no evidence that people would gravitate to a 4:3 monitor over a 16:9/10 one. The latter is ubiquitous these days and the number of games that use 4:3 originally are few. I think exa did a fine job with the games that still run at 4:3 by putting the nice art on the sides, it's better than stretching it all.
That's...interesting. I mean I don't see why you couldn't use them, but I also hate arcade1up as a business. So yeah sure...why not? I've seen arcades with cabinets running mame and over 3000 games before so this is the same to me. I think those cabinets are small though. Back when they were first announced I tried a cabinet out. It was fine by myself then someone joined me on the cabinet and the room is insufficient for adults.
Setting aside legalities on these or MAME cabs with unlicensed ROMs, the problem for a location is that big multi-games don't make money. Your average user likes to know exactly what they are getting when they put a coin into a machine - they don't want to spend an hour doing the ol' Blockbuster Shuffle, looking through thousands of games that might have one they like to play. My customers often get confused by stuff like the Neo Geo MVS that has four, so it doesn't really help the arcade like you might expect. I think it's ultimately the concept of quality over quantity
The big thing for me is quality and durability. These cabinets will not hold up in a true cabinet. I see a huge difference between an arcade 1up and Mame cabinets. The mame cabinet is often built to last.
not just no hell no! we have a local "arcade" here with 1ups and even atgames pinball. Its kind of a joke. In fact i wont even bother going to it. They simply are not designed for public use, if you own an arcade and have 1 , you better put it on freeplay and make it clear.
It does look like that Pac-Man's Pixel Bash home model has gone up in price (they initially launched at $1900 or so, now in the upper 2000s) but even with inflation, OG Pac-man or Ms. Pac-Man cabs really shouldn't be breaking $2k. This is because it's the most common arcade cab ever made, on top of the many official re-releases like Pixel Bash and others. Of course the problem there is that if people keep paying $3k prices for them, that's what sellers will charge.
I dont think they are even allowed even if they wanted to. The licenses I BELIEVE Arcade1Up buys are home licenses, where the buyer isn't making money off them. A license for an arcade game to make money is a different license and costs much more. So legally I don't believe you can put an Arcade1Up in an arcade you're making money from. If you do, I believe they can get massively fined.
You are correct on that! While no one has taken legal action against a venue using A1ups yet, all it takes is a lawyer visiting one of those venues with his family and the venue is screwed.
Seriously though, who cares? If they fall apart, they'll soon find out. If they're 'legally' not allowed to do this, they'll soon find out. If people find this offensive and don't want to play on them, don't. They probably can't afford or maintain 'real' arcade machines which by the way, good luck finding an untouched original machine which hasn't had some work done to it. Pretty much every vintage machine has been 'restored' with modern day / repro parts so are no longer original. If you want to get really technical, A1U are officially licensed products so are more authentic than a 30 yr old machine with repro artwork. I really don't understand all the hate from so-called 'purists' / gate-keepers to the hobby. IMO anything that gets my kids to play and enjoy retro games is a great thing. If this upsets people, maybe go outside and touch some grass.
You cared enough to comment, as have many others, so that answers your 1st question ;) You're coming at this from a collector/hobbist perspective whereas I'm coming at it from an operator one. I'm not arguing out the endless "should A1ups exist" battles on forums. It's a simple matter - if something is made for commercial-use then fine. A1ups are not, so keep them at home. As I pointed out in the video (not sure if you watched this far in), there are full-sized licensed machines like Pac-Man's Pixel Bash which are made for that purpose. I said this on Twitter - if A1up did make some machines built and licensed for commercial use, that'd be cool. I think Sega should do that with some of their classics. One reason why, aside from legality, is perception. If every arcade everywhere ditched full-sized machines for cheap 1ups, it would be a disaster. You don't go to a Michelin star restaurant and expect to be served fast food, just like you wouldn't go to a Dave & Busters and expect to find a game room that's stocked with $50 air hockey tables and Pop-A-Shot games from Walmart. If you did, the arcade industry would collapse (this is why I also constantly advocate for locations picking up brand new games - they are what make money) As for the argument that if a machine's had work done on it (replaced art or controls or whatever) that makes it equal to an A1up, sorry, you totally lost me there.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Ah, the old 'you must care because you commented' argument, the modern-day equivalent of 'I know you are but what am I' 🙄 I thought this was a topic encouraging conversation 🤷 Pretty sure most people (read: parents) walking into this place wouldn't care. Perhaps those that do should confront the owner and voice their displeasure face-to-face instead of angrily voicing their opinions on internet forums behind their back? I think we both know that'll never happen lol. As for my analogy of authentic vs reproduction, sorry I lost you there. Try this... if you were a vintage car collector and someone sold you one for full aftermarket price but you later found out the engine was from a modern vehicle, you'd still consider it to be vintage? I would assume not. BTW, I love your channel and none of what I said in my original comment was directed at you. I just believe some people should chill. There are bigger concerns in this world than someone trying to put smiles on the faces of children.
@@49ersfaithful75 Beginning was just an observation in some jest, hence the ;). I am happy to converse on this, nothing is meant to be personally insulting but of course it's always hard to tell people's tones via text comments. Also appreciate support at the channel - I do understand some people get very upset and heated on A1ups, which is one reason I've generally avoided the subject. Likewise I have no interest in the Billy Mitchell drama that keeps forums going. The principle point of the video is to let people looking at getting into the arcade biz to not do this. It's happening more and more, and since my platform reaches people who are often looking to start up an arcade biz, I think it's important to emphasize that there are better ways to do this. There might be some customers out there who don't care, but a majority will. Running a business is already difficult enough, but I will be amazed if places like Arcade-O-Mania lasts even a year, unless they make some major changes. Then all the goodwill the owner put into the business will be lost, when he could have achieved the same thing while finding better success. As I said, I really don't want to see this trend grow as it makes the industry look bad and it's just a step away from encouraging piracy. For analogies - if you went to a fancy restaurant, you would expect fancy food, not fast food. If you go to see a movie in IMAX, you wouldn't expect to see it in iPhone quality. If you go to a go-kart place and they had mopeds, you'd probably be upset. As with these instances, if you went to a Dave & Busters, or any other arcade, no one would seriously expect to go and find a bunch of air hockey tables and basketball machines that they bought at Wal-Mart meant for a kids room, nor find a room filled with $3-600 A1up games when normally you would expect $10k machines. On your repro thing, the reason you lost me on it is, apart from me not bringing up that specific thing in the video (it's separate as far as I'm concerned), you said in your comment that "pretty much every vintage machine has had work done on it" but that's a very broad assertion. I have plenty of cabs where the only thing ever replaced were the lights. Sure, the boards might die one day but replacing switches that go bad or lights that go out aren't the same as replacing an engine in a car. I wouldn't support selling arcade cabs as original when they have PCs running MAME inside them, but again, that's not the issue here with A1up. As for making kids happy - As a kid, my first visit to an arcade was wonderous because it was so much more than anything I'd seen in a home environment. If arcades become nothing more than A1up showrooms or console showrooms, they lose that magic. If you want to do that at home, again, I'm not disparaging people who buy A1ups for that purpose. I am though for businesses as I know kids will be much happier and better served by a biz owner that spends the extra cash to get full-sized, legit machines than to get something they can find at home.
there are NO REAL Classics ARCADES anymore, due to it NOT being the 80's and early 90's and there no hotdog, popcorn and pizzeria shops in or even remotely near any Would-be arcades these days, if any. real arcades are dying.. sadly only "real" arcades are the ones that those Actual arcade collectors have in their own private dens and mancaves. XD #theomoreyouknow
Absolutely NOT (allowed to uae arcade1up for profit). Its CLEARLY on the legal print on the box (i'm 99.9% sure) . It should say 'For use privately at home; not for distribution'~ just like how you cant charge a fee for showing your dvd movie collection on an outdoor screen and charge money to strangers.
This is incorrect. It's not on the box, in any of the paperwork, on any of the machines themself, or on Arcade1up's website. In fact the only statement they've ever made about this issue is a reply to an email (from a ticket) saying basically, "yes you can use them commercially, but they cabinets were not designed to be used commercially."
Thank you. I live 15 minutes away from Fairmont and went from excitement to despair when I saw Arcade1up instead of real machines in the news coverage. Local news doesn’t know the difference.
That's sad. Not what you want at all.
100% no for all the reasons you stated. Arcade1ups should be for home use only. If someone is going to open an arcade, they should do it the right way or don’t do it at all IMO. Awesome topic and thank you so much for sharing your opinion on this. I personally value your opinion a ton and have a lot of appreciation for what you do 🙏🏼 keep it up ✊🏻🔥
Thank you Ralph! I'm flattered and appreciate the feedback 👍
No they shouldn't
Please for home use only. Nothing against Arcade 1Up but they are not for arcades.
Maybe if it was one of those kids' birthday party rental trailers that are usually filled with xboxes and beanbag chairs. That's the closest I can think of for a case for commercial use.
That's a pretty good point. I agree that this might be a decent option but those kids can be pretty rough on them too.
Agree as the payment is for the rental of said party company, not so 1Up cabs. Those could be used as an add on event like the bouncy house and cornhole.
Nice for a basement, but has no place in commercial settings
This probably explains why a newly opened "Video arcade" near me just puts me off - it's all MAME and ticket machines, nothing worth actually going for
Arcade1ups are meant for homeuse only not for a commercial business. I own about 30 original arcades & some pins in my personal collection
Since these 1Up's don't have real coin doors, how would they charge???? My father used to work in an actual arcade in the 70's-early 80's so every week we literally lived in the arcade at Rolling Acres Mall in Akron, so when I see arcades with 1Up machines I find it insulting. If they are used in a children's hospitals or haircut places or maybe a bar, but NOT an actual arcade.
Just a heads up that business in Fairmont is absolutely thriving by the way.
I'm not hoping for anyone to fail - hopefully they can upgrade to some real machines and do even better :)
Agree with everything except at 11:07 the Arcade1ups come with a clear control panel overlay now so the control panel graphics don't degrade. But yes I agree these are not commercial quality.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that, thanks
For whatever reason they still get that wrong. They have extra big holes in the acrylic, meaning the buttons are sunken into them instead of sitting on them. sharp edges that attract grime. It's probably a problem of getting the acrylic to the factory that assembles the control panels. I have no idea why it's still 'a thing' after so many years.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop
@@SoulforSale And a real cab still beats their recent stuff or the upcoming Pros. Do all you A1up diehards *really* think that A1ups are better than the originals? That's the impression I'm starting to get here.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop these are multi-cades. They're not better than real cabinets. They are not trying to be.
20:50 yes you're totally right. Starting ilegally will definitely bring you more cash at first, but before you break even you're gonna be closed. that is called a flop. so you the best shot is rouing, then operating, as you said. and, the most important part... dont "eat" the money you farm, save it to buy more mashines. V
What are your thoughts on custom made arcades? I guess that would go inside the emulated category, but they are often cheaper than used arcade machines and come with functional coins slots often
Depends on what it's for. If it's a custom MAME machine, then that technically falls under the same umbrella as A1up as far as legality goes; But while those machines can be made with sturdier, better parts, there's another issue that pops-up. The general consumer that visits an arcade just wants to see a game they like, put in a coin, and play. They do not like reading, scrolling through menus, doing anything that might take a bit of time.
If a custom cabinet for a legit arcade game/board, those can be good but it depends on what it is and how its handled.
I've tried multi-games in the past (like a 60-in-1 cab that fell into my possession once - for free) that have a bunch of titles on them and they are duds, making at best $5 a week, usually less. I've not heard of anyone operating a MAME machine in an arcade with 3,000 titles on it doing any better although it's not super common for legit locations to do that (since it is technically illegal).
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Oh ok, that makes alot more sense
Problem is I see machines which run emulation accepting coins or using card readers. You wouldn't be able to tell unless you opened the machine up. Since they would be using everything legit. But yeah no one is policing this and some of the licenses are abandoned from what I can tell from some games. For example I don't see Atari going after Primal Rage cabinets still out for public use to collect money. So yeah.. Also I am starting to see at some places people using reproduction machines of current games which use stuff like Teknoparrot and people selling them for less then what Raw Thrills is selling them for home or public use.
In regards to old games, an OG board or cabinet doesn't need to worry about licensing, it's simply in regards to if you were to grab a cab, throw a computer in there and run ROMs on it, unless you bought a license for using that in an arcade, you're technically in the wrong, just as much as Teknoparroting an RT game (the issue is worse with new games though since those are actively being sold, so piracy does end up hurting companies like RT)
Heck I remember back in the day (we're talking 1992-93) there was a local arcade that had a section setup with regular Sega Genesis consoles to play games on with their own custom setup (not the MegaTech systems) just the regular consumer grade Genesis consoles connected to a banked counter with a line of monitors with arcade style joysticks and such they'd let you swap out carts yourself. You just paid by the time.
Sure that has been tried on rare occasion (still is once in a blue moon, mainly in 3rd world countries where major devs would have trouble enforcing the "no public commercial-use exhibition" rules of their games) but regardless the era, charging for time on console games was never a big money maker.
Here's an attempt from 2009/10 from a company to officially put the Xbox 360 on a timer (they could change it to work with the PS3 too). The company didn't even last a year: ruclips.net/video/sVUtxaU8Q-g/видео.html
I saw a report from an arcade owner who said that his retro machines only pull in about $300-$600 per YEAR. He had several locations with 40-60 total machines, and showed that, for some locations, the math just doesn't support buying, maintaining, and powering ancient $3,000 cabinets. Considering the cost of the Arcade1ups, an arcade could devote them to the 80s era titles practically and without too much concern for heavy "commercial" use.
I have a couple of different videos that discusses retro arcades and their viability in today's market. No, they usually don't make that much. Part of it not being great when they earn poorly is that pricing on them is still out-of-whack - OG Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-man cabs from the 80s shouldn't be $3000, but that's what you often see. Get them for $1000 or less, then it's not so bad as they'll pay themselves off in a year or two.
Setting aside the legal issue on using A1ups, the other thing is that when people go to an arcade, they are expecting to have as original or as close to it cabinet as is possible. Would you go to a Dave & Busters or similar place and prefer to see A1ups or originals for their retro games? Probably the latter.
Any arcade that goes the A1up route might save a few bucks at first but I would be certain that those would end up making even less than any OG cab would, as most consumers would scoff at the thought.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Those are all valid points. Perhaps it is simply a case of the market no longer being there for these old games to be terribly profitable in an arcade settings. That is, nostalgia may be "valuable", but not necessarily "profitable".
There is a huge arcade in a nearby shopping mall occupying the entire bottom floor of a vacant JCPennys which my wife and I checked out recently. Tons of new machines, a lot of cutting edge stuff. Only ONE "retro" game, a giant screen (8' wide) version of PacMan with all sorts of lights and effects. Nobody played it during our entire visit. I doubt it made enough to pay its electricity costs for the day.
The Arcade1up games seem very popular, but I suspect that the people who BUY them are not the same people who would necessarily go out to a commercial arcade and PLAY them. And those who are even more "hardcore" about it and want to own "the real thing" will invest in genuine cabs to own at home. I see that some higher end recreation models are available, too, but at several times the cost of the Arcade1up stuff. Who does that leave to justify the presence of 45 year old machines in a modern arcade? Probably very few.
You can basically put anything in an arcade as long as you don't charge for it individually, as long as it is set to free play most states don't care. Never seen a business being shut down even with emulators. Cover charge to occupy the space is the loophole. If you don't support them using it , don't pay for it. Let the market decide.
No, no arcade has been closed due to emulators that I've heard of but the market has decided in those cases - they never make more or even the same as an arcade that does things the right way. 60-in-1s make next to nothing, they can't hold a candle to a Cruis'n Blast or a Halo. Same would go for A1ups - you can't find a single one that would draw in equal or better appeal than a proper full-sized arcade machine.
Same could be said for VR. A few years ago you started seeing VR arcades pop-up all over the place; I even had a neighbor for a time that was one of them (called VR Junkies). They just grabbed a few HTC Vives with a curated bunch of content. Novel, for a time, then the novelty wore off and more people got headsets at home. All of the places like it in my area, including my neighbor, are now closed, yet my old school arcade is still in operation. Note that my neighbor closed in December 2019 before the pandemic - most he'd ever made in a month was $9k (which is a decent month for me).
That said, specialized Location Based VR can make strong money - I've seen earnings of the Rabbids Big Ride VR game by LAI hauling in $8k a month by itself. You can't get it at home so the market sees there's more value than just throwing something that you can buy over at Walmart into a place and milking it.
Using the restaurant analogy again, could a Michelin star place serve the McDonald's value menu? Sure, nothing stops them from doing so.. Will consumers reward them for it for very long? Nope. That's what I see when a venue uses A1ups.
I personally have 2 A1Ups in my apartment, but I also do have a Big Buck Hunter Reloaded (it was previously an HD cabinet for years) in the same unit. I don’t use any of them commercially.
I also agree that A1Up’s shouldn’t be used commercially because they weren’t designed that way. I expect the real thing when I go to an arcade, and even to businesses that are not arcades primarily (such as movie theaters).
Someone else also commented on the use of Teknoparrot for Raw Thrills games. I don’t have a problem with emulating modern arcade games like Super Bikes 2 or SuperCars (I’ve seen it done, there are plenty of videos out there), as long as they’re not being produced anymore. I’m all for software preservation, and I think it’s a nice thing to have to prevent something from becoming lost media. But when people start emulating things like Super Bikes 3 and Minecraft Dungeons Arcade, that’s not okay to me because they are actively hurting the companies that make those games by doing so. Maybe it’s unintentional, but it’s still not okay to me.
One issue I could add with using emulators on games that may not be in production anymore but are still hot sellers on the used market is that piracy hurts those distributors looking to resell cabs. Since the pandemic, they've come to rely on used sales much more than before, and used it a great alternative to starting an arcade up with everything new. But I get the sentiment behind it all - nobody wants to pay more than they have to
@@arcadeheroes_coinop That’s a great point too actually. I guess if something is really rare that most distributors aren’t selling it, due to age or other factors, then emulation would be a way to preserve the game.
Personally I’m a fan of 90’s games from companies like Sega. It’s amazing how many concepts they had back then. Yeah you had drivers and shooters but then you had things like skiing, skateboarding, fishing, and even firefighting. Maybe they’re not my favorite games but it’s still really interesting because it feels like witnessing a piece of history.
Then are these custom Arcade businesses like "Extreme Arcades" or "Megacade" considered legal? They come with 50,000 games in a single cabinet. But not one game company has stopped them. And it seems like their business is doing very well making custom cabinets.
Not for commercial use, although I have seen a few saying that they will setup them up to take coins. For home use, I don't think it's technically legal either but as you mention - without any enforcement, it becomes legal.
That said, even if it was legal, I would grab one of those systems for my business simply because they're earnings duds. I've never seen a case where some arcade places such a machine down and it makes money - my customers have a hard enough time figuring the Neo Geo MVS or exA out, much less something with near unlimited ROMs on it.
If i see those im walking out.
This is why i went back to older arcade cabinets instead of vr arcades because they are not fortified for commercial use especially the headsets
If u are running a "Arcade" with arcade1ups u are just setting yourself up to fail.....they wont last in a commercial environment.
Great video and topic! I do have a question for you, don't you feel that person can update or modify the controls on Arcade1up cab would you still think their wouldn't last in a commercial setting?
They could fortify perhaps to help but you'd have to spend some decent money to do so (and that still doesn't fix the legal or size issue).
@@arcadeheroes_coinop there isn't no state or federal law that prohibited use of arcade1up in a commercial setting anywhere in 50 states! Two, their might be small or might be a toy but for you make a video that tell people what to do with they product/arcade1up is wrong! Yes it isn't convenient to use these products outside the house/home but if bring joy to people isn't that point in gaming!
@@gothamcityarcade That's quite a different attitude you're coming at it with all of a sudden but I'll play.
"No law" - Federal law 17 U.S. Code § 110 states the law that a company like Capcom or Bandai Namco would use to take you to court over this. Also look up laws regarding commercial licenses for cyber cafés. If you wish to fight such a thing in court you could but you would lose. There's a reason why these companies have separate licensing for home & commercial use and that reason is the law, which protects their IP from being exploited for gain in an unauthorized manner. Using A1ups in a business is exactly that, whether you like it or not.
You say that me telling people not to break the law is wrong, all I can do is laugh. You're taking the stance of a ROM pirate, which is the immoral one here - I'm defending the reputation of the arcade industry. If we as a biz all start using A1ups with the weak excuse of "putting smiles on faces," it will wreck the biz. As I mentioned in another comment, would you really go to an upscale restaurant then be happy if they served you a frozen TV dinner? Perhaps you might be but a vast majority of people would not. No different in an arcade.
As for "putting smiles on faces" - stop using this idiotic argument. Who in their right mind would ever prefer to play an Arcade 1up Big Buck Hunter or Terminator 2 or OutRun over the full-sized original thing? Zero instances where A1up wins here.
As I said in the video, if you can't afford it then don't open one until you can. Use financing. This biz is not a way to get rich quick and those who think it is will regret it fast. Sorry that you don't want to hear that but it's the truth.
That's a no. They'll get worn out quickly. Especially in sports bars.
Absolutely agree! Arcade 1ups are toys. They are not arcade machines, they do not have anywhere near the quality of an original cab and they aren’t even tall enough.
We run a Retro Arcade hire business here in the UK. We put on events as well as providing original classic cabs for private & corporate events. We would never get away with using arcade 1ups for an event. There are multiple venues opening up now using arcade 1ups it’s a joke.
No way would we even consider using arcade 1Up toys for a business!
We have spent years collecting original cabs and restoring them. This is just an easy way for anyone’s who’s no idea how to restore or maintain original cabinets to get into this business. Absolute joke!
Any way you can talk about Pandora Box systems this way if they work in arcades?
Those Pandora coin op machines are the worst kinds of emulated pirate arcade crap. I only play a few games at a time and bad emulation with simplistic navigation makes Pandora a horrible choice.
@@JohnshiBRPG There is a local barcade here that has a few Pandora Boxes out for use and also a few 1ups, but they are more focused on being a "console barcade". There is a 2nd seperate barcade that is almost exclusive consoles, but has a few PCs also
I would put PB into the same category as any other emulated (usually MAME cabinet). I know that some might use them, and 60-in-1s, here and there but they are usually such a poor & confusing experience that they aren't worth the trouble.
One other thing I forgot to mention in the video is input lag. I doubt that A1up is handling this in a decent way; Emulated setups certainly are not. For certain games, poor IL can ruin the experience.
Arcade 1up units are not made to hold up to commercial use. Arcade's get brutalized by the public.
I don't live in a country that sells Arcade1ups but from pictures and videos they look way too small and limp to be used commercially in an entertainement venue.
On top of that, as you previously witnessed, legacy arcades don't do well and require maintenance so the retro world is not in a good state for anything outside of home.
I think there is a desperate need for a big 4:3 display multigame cabinet. The ExA platform is unnecessarily overengineered and expensive for the kind of games it ended up running.
The best shot so far comes from the korean iircade which has the best of both world as it wouldnt take a lot of space in an arcade centre or in a bar, their online store would be perfect for newcoming revenue sharing games while still being able to operate legally owned ROMs at whatever the price may be. But once again... the display is only 19" and the cabinet itself is still too small to be considered acceptable.
The huge 50"-55" display cabinets however seems to be an acceptable size for commercial use and I think your 1st gen Exa isnt far from that buuut it's 16:9 which ruins the aesthetics and attractiveness for the masses. Up to a point where I wonder if it wouldn't be such a bad idea to consider going the SEGA Megalo 410 way instead since we can crop modern projectors to end up running on a huge 4:3 display like the old time while enjoying tons of games on a modern coin ops, certainly the opposite of what Arcade 1 Up and Exa offers.
I've seen iircade before but wasn't impressed. Just something kind of like A1up that's done some licensing for commercial, although I did forget to mention them in the video (because they're forgettable - without any kind of exclusive/enhanced software, I just find it hard to get excited about)
To be fair, my exA's haven't been super lucrative at this point but I have seen numbers from other locations where they make a killing ($800+/wk, which something that it's dubious an iircade or Polycade would ever get close to). As I've explained before, exA is building up to bigger things, which takes time so I don't fault them for bringing along games that don't need massive amounts of CPU power to run. Granted, I'd love to see some games that push the platform but it takes money to do such a thing and they'd be stupid to go bankrupt on a risky pretty game that might not sell well when they can produce some sure-hits.
As for displays, I have seen no evidence that people would gravitate to a 4:3 monitor over a 16:9/10 one. The latter is ubiquitous these days and the number of games that use 4:3 originally are few. I think exa did a fine job with the games that still run at 4:3 by putting the nice art on the sides, it's better than stretching it all.
Can you? Yes, absolutely nothing prevents you from doing this. Should you? No.
That's...interesting. I mean I don't see why you couldn't use them, but I also hate arcade1up as a business. So yeah sure...why not? I've seen arcades with cabinets running mame and over 3000 games before so this is the same to me.
I think those cabinets are small though. Back when they were first announced I tried a cabinet out. It was fine by myself then someone joined me on the cabinet and the room is insufficient for adults.
Setting aside legalities on these or MAME cabs with unlicensed ROMs, the problem for a location is that big multi-games don't make money. Your average user likes to know exactly what they are getting when they put a coin into a machine - they don't want to spend an hour doing the ol' Blockbuster Shuffle, looking through thousands of games that might have one they like to play.
My customers often get confused by stuff like the Neo Geo MVS that has four, so it doesn't really help the arcade like you might expect. I think it's ultimately the concept of quality over quantity
The big thing for me is quality and durability. These cabinets will not hold up in a true cabinet. I see a huge difference between an arcade 1up and Mame cabinets. The mame cabinet is often built to last.
not just no hell no! we have a local "arcade" here with 1ups and even atgames pinball. Its kind of a joke. In fact i wont even bother going to it. They simply are not designed for public use, if you own an arcade and have 1 , you better put it on freeplay and make it clear.
I'd love a Pac-Man machine, so thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in the Arcade1Up machines, and the only other cabinets are $3,000.
It does look like that Pac-Man's Pixel Bash home model has gone up in price (they initially launched at $1900 or so, now in the upper 2000s) but even with inflation, OG Pac-man or Ms. Pac-Man cabs really shouldn't be breaking $2k. This is because it's the most common arcade cab ever made, on top of the many official re-releases like Pixel Bash and others. Of course the problem there is that if people keep paying $3k prices for them, that's what sellers will charge.
These things are flimsy Wall Mart retail gimmicks. These things have no olace in a commercial venue.
I dont think they are even allowed even if they wanted to. The licenses I BELIEVE Arcade1Up buys are home licenses, where the buyer isn't making money off them. A license for an arcade game to make money is a different license and costs much more. So legally I don't believe you can put an Arcade1Up in an arcade you're making money from. If you do, I believe they can get massively fined.
You are correct on that! While no one has taken legal action against a venue using A1ups yet, all it takes is a lawyer visiting one of those venues with his family and the venue is screwed.
If you have an arcade please don't use arcade 1ups in the arcade. They are not up to par with real cabinets at all.
Perfectly fine in a home environment, but not built to commercial standards.
They’ll be trashed in no time.
Arcade1up's are definitely for home use. They are not fit for arcades, so I'd use the real thing if I was to open a arcade
Their cabinets arent meant for commercial use. They arent robust enough to say the least
I'm a big fan of your videos. I'm at Iappa and run my own arcade would love to meet you. I'm here today, Wednesday, and Friday. Take care
Hopefully we run into each other - I just ran into another operator who knows the site! I'm there through Thurs, leaving early Friday
No
they will break after 40 minutes of playing, so yeah
Seriously though, who cares? If they fall apart, they'll soon find out. If they're 'legally' not allowed to do this, they'll soon find out. If people find this offensive and don't want to play on them, don't. They probably can't afford or maintain 'real' arcade machines which by the way, good luck finding an untouched original machine which hasn't had some work done to it. Pretty much every vintage machine has been 'restored' with modern day / repro parts so are no longer original. If you want to get really technical, A1U are officially licensed products so are more authentic than a 30 yr old machine with repro artwork. I really don't understand all the hate from so-called 'purists' / gate-keepers to the hobby. IMO anything that gets my kids to play and enjoy retro games is a great thing. If this upsets people, maybe go outside and touch some grass.
You cared enough to comment, as have many others, so that answers your 1st question ;)
You're coming at this from a collector/hobbist perspective whereas I'm coming at it from an operator one. I'm not arguing out the endless "should A1ups exist" battles on forums. It's a simple matter - if something is made for commercial-use then fine. A1ups are not, so keep them at home. As I pointed out in the video (not sure if you watched this far in), there are full-sized licensed machines like Pac-Man's Pixel Bash which are made for that purpose. I said this on Twitter - if A1up did make some machines built and licensed for commercial use, that'd be cool. I think Sega should do that with some of their classics.
One reason why, aside from legality, is perception. If every arcade everywhere ditched full-sized machines for cheap 1ups, it would be a disaster. You don't go to a Michelin star restaurant and expect to be served fast food, just like you wouldn't go to a Dave & Busters and expect to find a game room that's stocked with $50 air hockey tables and Pop-A-Shot games from Walmart. If you did, the arcade industry would collapse (this is why I also constantly advocate for locations picking up brand new games - they are what make money)
As for the argument that if a machine's had work done on it (replaced art or controls or whatever) that makes it equal to an A1up, sorry, you totally lost me there.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Ah, the old 'you must care because you commented' argument, the modern-day equivalent of 'I know you are but what am I' 🙄 I thought this was a topic encouraging conversation 🤷
Pretty sure most people (read: parents) walking into this place wouldn't care. Perhaps those that do should confront the owner and voice their displeasure face-to-face instead of angrily voicing their opinions on internet forums behind their back? I think we both know that'll never happen lol.
As for my analogy of authentic vs reproduction, sorry I lost you there. Try this... if you were a vintage car collector and someone sold you one for full aftermarket price but you later found out the engine was from a modern vehicle, you'd still consider it to be vintage? I would assume not.
BTW, I love your channel and none of what I said in my original comment was directed at you. I just believe some people should chill. There are bigger concerns in this world than someone trying to put smiles on the faces of children.
@@49ersfaithful75 Beginning was just an observation in some jest, hence the ;). I am happy to converse on this, nothing is meant to be personally insulting but of course it's always hard to tell people's tones via text comments. Also appreciate support at the channel - I do understand some people get very upset and heated on A1ups, which is one reason I've generally avoided the subject. Likewise I have no interest in the Billy Mitchell drama that keeps forums going.
The principle point of the video is to let people looking at getting into the arcade biz to not do this. It's happening more and more, and since my platform reaches people who are often looking to start up an arcade biz, I think it's important to emphasize that there are better ways to do this.
There might be some customers out there who don't care, but a majority will. Running a business is already difficult enough, but I will be amazed if places like Arcade-O-Mania lasts even a year, unless they make some major changes. Then all the goodwill the owner put into the business will be lost, when he could have achieved the same thing while finding better success. As I said, I really don't want to see this trend grow as it makes the industry look bad and it's just a step away from encouraging piracy.
For analogies - if you went to a fancy restaurant, you would expect fancy food, not fast food. If you go to see a movie in IMAX, you wouldn't expect to see it in iPhone quality. If you go to a go-kart place and they had mopeds, you'd probably be upset. As with these instances, if you went to a Dave & Busters, or any other arcade, no one would seriously expect to go and find a bunch of air hockey tables and basketball machines that they bought at Wal-Mart meant for a kids room, nor find a room filled with $3-600 A1up games when normally you would expect $10k machines.
On your repro thing, the reason you lost me on it is, apart from me not bringing up that specific thing in the video (it's separate as far as I'm concerned), you said in your comment that "pretty much every vintage machine has had work done on it" but that's a very broad assertion. I have plenty of cabs where the only thing ever replaced were the lights. Sure, the boards might die one day but replacing switches that go bad or lights that go out aren't the same as replacing an engine in a car. I wouldn't support selling arcade cabs as original when they have PCs running MAME inside them, but again, that's not the issue here with A1up.
As for making kids happy - As a kid, my first visit to an arcade was wonderous because it was so much more than anything I'd seen in a home environment. If arcades become nothing more than A1up showrooms or console showrooms, they lose that magic. If you want to do that at home, again, I'm not disparaging people who buy A1ups for that purpose. I am though for businesses as I know kids will be much happier and better served by a biz owner that spends the extra cash to get full-sized, legit machines than to get something they can find at home.
there are NO REAL Classics ARCADES anymore, due to it NOT being the 80's and early 90's and there no hotdog, popcorn and pizzeria shops in or even remotely near any Would-be arcades these days, if any. real arcades are dying.. sadly only "real" arcades are the ones that those Actual arcade collectors have in their own private dens and mancaves. XD #theomoreyouknow
I already did a lengthy response to this argument: ruclips.net/video/QpS_GKXhFb4/видео.html
Crabtowne USA in MD is still running. It’s an original arcade from the 80s.
@@sk8ersublime I went there on my last day of family summer trip before heading back home. Quite a nicely hidden treasure.
These pieces of junk will disintegrate with 6 months of commercial use.
😆I’m laughing at your thump nail...😝 A 25000.00 House Of The Dead Scarlet Dawn cabinet with 1ups...
That was definitely intentional ;)
Lol
Absolutely NOT (allowed to uae arcade1up for profit). Its CLEARLY on the legal print on the box (i'm 99.9% sure) . It should say 'For use privately at home; not for distribution'~ just like how you cant charge a fee for showing your dvd movie collection on an outdoor screen and charge money to strangers.
This is incorrect. It's not on the box, in any of the paperwork, on any of the machines themself, or on Arcade1up's website. In fact the only statement they've ever made about this issue is a reply to an email (from a ticket) saying basically, "yes you can use them commercially, but they cabinets were not designed to be used commercially."
I'm a collector and there's no way I would throw my money away on a junky arcade 1up. The are built with flake board.
anyone who buys an Arcade1up is a criminal who should be locked up.
No they shouldn’t
No they shouldn’t