The fact that Hasan will get on XQC's case for not "moderating hate towards him (Hasan)" in his community but will act all indignant when Ethan points out how vicious and toxic his fans are towards him (Ethan) is just so telling. How can anyone look up to this guy?
Yeah, plus it's like 10X worse than what was happening with XQC. They're straight up chanting for the death of Israeli people. Second time I'm gonna watch this, because I want to know what Lonerboxs views are on it, but Destiny's version pointed out how when they were watching the interview with the Palestinian guy, Hasan whole chat was just hyping up the idea of 1000 October 7th. Cheering bro, that's fucking sickening, like actually sickening. Meanwhile Hasan just plays stupid to his discord, main subreddits, literally everything just call Ethan racist or try to make the world think Ethan somehow supports oppression of Palestine or some shit.
He also contacted Vaush when everyone in the right mind was criticizing Hasan for spreading pro-Russian talking points insenuating that Vaush personally sent his fans to harass him, I think the word "Vaush" still banned in his live chat. It feels to me that Hasan doesn't care about the practical application of any politics he advocates for, he cares about what sounds "morally right" so he appeals to as many left-leaning people as possible.
Hasan has a lot of nerve saying that when he is the most fragile dude on the left and can't take criticism whatsoever. He told Vaush in DMs that he needs to reign in his fans because he can't take the criticism of his horrible Ukraine takes. Hasan is a fragile, spoiled richkid crybully.
@@RiceShouldBeFluffy pretty much, it gives them a license to support any sort of genocide too like they usually do because it's for a great cause of "socialism" or "anti-imperialism" or whatever else.
It's funny when he was giving XqC shit for not moderating when they shittalk Hasan. XqC should just have said ''Hasan i love you but there is only so much i can do, which is nothing at all''
To be fair Ethan has done a lot of this to himself. He’s burned bridges and talked shit about so many people that would actually be on his side right now. Instead he finds himself stranded out in the lonely void of the far left with only unhinged tankies and mentally unstable college kids to keep him company. Even Jordan Peterson tried to warn him lmao
Hasan is the personification of politics as an aesthetic. His views are entirely motivated by fashion, he adopts and abandons principles entirely when it is convenient for him. Refuses to take any responsibility for the things he says and the people he influences, and absolutely refuses to engage with any criticism. Truly a blight upon discourse.
I used to say Vaush was the personification of that but no, Hasan is that even more because in reality, Vaush CAN be intelligent and consistent if he actually wants to put in the effort (95% of the time he won't), while I think Hasan is just an idiot that doesn't care. They're both backstabbers though.
It's interesting that Hasan tells Ethan that it's understandable that his fans call Ethan racist, since he's saying things they've heard racists say. But at the same time, Hasan has no understanding of Ethan feeling weird about the use of the "from the river to the sea...", since actual murderous fascist terrorists have been using the statement as a rallying cry to kill Jews. At least be consistent.
The only consistency hasan cares about is being consistently anti-west. Whining about fairness or ethics completely mistakes the kind of person you are dealing with. Hasan is the representation the left deserves for not squishing the wokescolds and tankies sooner
I’m becoming more and more convinced he doesn’t actually give a shit about anything, and it’s depressing as hell because I’ve been a fan of his for so long.
It is consistent. From the river to the sea is where Palestinians live, how is the phrase any more offensive than “free Palestine”, which can also be misconstrued to mean “free it of all Jews” and is also used that way when anti semitic Palestinians say it? By this logic, any pro Palestinian phrase can be taken as a call for genocide.
I can't imagine being so obtuse towards a friend when they mostly agree with me and only want to be assured that I have their back. Hasan clearly cares more about how he looks online then about how he treats his own friends.
He was incredibly ignorant and condescending towards Ethan since the beginning of this conflict. Ethan tried so hard to stay friendly towards Hasan but in all honesty their friendship should not survive this.
Also disgusting how he reacted to mod comments. I can’t imagine someone coming for my close minority friend like that and not instantly removing privileges. But then again, Hasan thinks friends are pawns and he can’t manipulate Ethan the way he wants to.
@@yingyang2838 If you think patience means being condescending while never trying to actual stop people from calling Ethan racist when he is clearly not, then I guess you are on the money.
@@VagabondRetro Hasan is not responsible for his audience’s reaction to Ethan’s bullshit. I don’t think Ethan is racist but the shit he was saying sure sounded pretty iffy.
Hasan is no different than the rich people he criticizes. He doesn't care about whatever damage he does to society or people so long as he's making money. Ethan was just dollar signs to this guy; just a means of getting more reach. It's disgusting how unwilling he is to give just a salt grain of a concession to Ethan to show a little bit of empathy to a friend.
Regardless of the political discussion, if you ever try to be vulnerable or confide in a friend and this is the reaction you get, you need to find a new friend.
That's interesting. I would expect my friends to challenge me if I was putting my emotional and irrational fears above real world impacts and spreading propaganda. I would hope my friend would kick me in the ass for that.
@@MissMaserati The real world impacts like... Public opinion of Israeli citizens who we should be trying to win over? Do you even care about the real world impacts of anything?
@@MissMaserati Hasan only cares about pro-palestinian feelings and propaganda (self admitted), he doesn't care about pragmatics or objective reality. He openly says he doesn't care about jews here because he's already decided they're the oppressor, he will happily apologize for Hamas' actions because they're from the "oppressed" class, but says Lonerbox is being "charitable" for saying IDF "paniced" and caused a massacre. Plus saying the fears of a genocide happening to Jews in Isreal only after a month of Hamas commiting a low scale genocide is not irrational, it's common sense in context of a one-state solution run by a bitter vengeful Palestinian majority.
At the end when Ethan was desperately trying for some common understanding from Hasán. You could tell in that moment that Ethan just wanted him to understand how a phrase that’s been spouted makes Jewish people feel. He was just wanting his friend to forget about the stream for a second and show him a moment of empathy, and Hasán couldn’t even do it lmao. I’m not even a fan of Ethan and I’ve had my views of him in the past but man, can’t help but feel bad for him. Can’t imagine your country going through one of the worst terrorist attacks of this century, feeling like everyone is against you simply for your ethnicity and then trying to turn to your friend for a showing of public support and your “friend” basically blames you for the hate being spewed at you by HIS community lol jeeeeesus
Hasan will say he is not defending Hamas in _any_ capacity, and then immediately defend Hamas by way of saying that there factions within the group that are less evil and actually want good things for the people... Which counts as a defense of Hamas in _any_ capacity.
I know Ethan made some basic mistakes in this conversation, but he thought he was talking to a friend and not prepared for a debate. Hassan’s followers (and I used to be one) are still yelling at Ethan in his subreddits. Some of them want to run with the most bad faith interpretations of what Ethan said, to the point where they say the exact opposite of what Ethan has clearly stated he believes. Hassan does yell at his own chat when they do this to him, but makes excuses when they do it to Ethan and even his own mods were doing this. That group is completely beyond seeing anything but what they want. They literally say Ethan compared the phrase to the confederate flag, that Ethan said free Palestine is a problem and giving them time stamps and circling the captions won’t even convince them otherwise. I’m not sure what being antagonistic to people that also believe in human rights for Palestinians like Ethan does for Palestinians. It’s made me lose a lot of respect for people I tend to side with on most issues.
It's like what Ethan said. If they can't convince him, a very left-wing Jewish person that leans pro-Palestinian, then how the hell do they have any hope of convincing others? But then again, I suppose their philosophy is that there's no need to convince others and that their righteousness is self-evident making anyone that doesn't agree with them a monster. They aren't interested in solving problems. They're interested in looking justified.
Can you tell me why people like Hasan? I am genuinely curious. From every point of view he is an asshole. He does not care about facts and is an insecure manchild. Are people so insecure in themselves that they want someone similar or what?
Hasan trying to use Jews to shut up Ethan's concerns, is like a Republican using black republicans to shut up the concerns of the black community broadly.
@@mr.negativenancy5751 I honestly don't know how big either group is. I wouldn't think it would make the comparison invalid, since it doesn't go on numbers but on theme, that is, tokenism.
@@satiricgames2129i do find it kind of ironic that Israel from 1948 until like 1983 was a semi socialist/social democratic state and when Bernie sanders lived on one of the kibbutz there in the 60s it made him a democratic socialist and gave him the semi socialist/social democratic principles he held all his life and then in his campaign helped influence millions of young people to turn left due to his experiences in Israel when it was a semi socialist state kind of structured like Venezuela was under Hugo Chavez but was just more successful for far longer due to reparations and outside funding labor Zionism and Zionist ideology indirectly influenced so many to become socialist and hold socialist principles now are the very same ones that absolutely hate Israel now 😂
"It's a very important percentage of Jewish scholars" - Hasan : call me a quote miner but this has to be the most successful use of weasel words I've ever seen. He doesn't say how substantial that portion is and gives no hint about how representative it is.
Remember "crimea river" Also how does ethan stating someone else's opinion I.e israelis using nukes before dissolving their boarders after oct 7th, make him anything? He's stating his view on someone else's position, he didn't even justify it or claim it was moral etc. He's stated so many times he wants Palestinian emancipation, for them to have there own state and an end to the violence, I honestly don't understand how his position is getting ignored in favour of omg ethan wants apartheid and genocide, its so stupid and damaging that we just seem to be talking past each other and yeh i've been arguing in the comments section its a long video
Man, at this point I have to wonder if ethan is doing this to save a friendship or if he just wants to stop one of the biggest influencers on the internet from radicalizing his massive following into the most hateful takes imaginable. Like, maybe he thinks his friendship with Hassan might give him some leverage into making him stop. That's honestly the only reason i can come with for why Ethan is still trying. Otherwise, I would have ended this friendship when this mess started.
He’s looking for a voice of reason, and in disagreement, at least an acknowledgement that his feelings are valid. He will not be getting that from Hasan and I hope he finds actual voices of reason on the left, such as lonerbox and others
Honestly, it feels like Ethan is trying to reach for an emotional/sincere discussion on this whole subject topic but Hasan CANNOT stop switching it back to his talking points….which comes across like he doesn’t really care. It’s like when Ethan recollected on a clip he saw of a Palestinian dad holding his dead child and still talking to them like they were alive, Ethan just broke down in tears and Hasan just took over and starts doing his talking points.
I hate absolutely everything about this situation. It's like Covid all over again with all the mis/disinformation and the tribalism over an already horrific situation.
“Israel” as a state that explicitly caters to, and exerts significant political, military, and economic effort to ensure, a demographic majority of Jewish people needs to not exist. There’s a pretty large number of Zionists who will openly tell anybody who listens that a state that does not do that is not Israel, so it’s a loaded question to ask in the first place.
Ngl, I was a long-term Hasan fan (pre-leftovers), but after this whole saga, I don't watch him. Ethan was coming to this in good faith, and Hasan was just passively approving the part of his audience, which is incredibly hostile and nasty towards Ethan. Ethan is supposed to be a friend, and Hasan is a hypocrite because he was in bits when XQC wasn't moderating his chat. Ethan didn’t say anything wrong, but everything Ethan said was completely disregarded/fought against. There was no 'meeting of minds'. Very much sticking to a script on Hasan's part, not daring to concede a point, meet halfway, or simply discuss - the debate bro mindset was fully engaged. Even though I was ecstatic when leftovers was announced, I am so glad it's over, and the toxic hostile fans are slowly leaving the H3H3 chat.
I find people like you the most interesting, did u wake up one day and hit your head? “Took me a year to realize I didn’t like the guy enough to keep paying for his life”
@@JohnSmith-gm5yn No. I’m subbed to a lot of streamers on twitch and RUclips and forgot I was still subbed to him. Also I’m mostly subbed to people to support them because I like their content. I rarely have time to actually watch streams live because of my job. It’s the same situation with vaush. I haven’t enjoyed his takes recently and am apparently still subbed to him monthly on his website. I tried to cancel the renewal but I keep getting an error message. Point being, it’s very easy for me to overlook who I’m paying when I rarely get on the app and mostly watch segments of stream highlights on RUclips while working.
The river to the sea phrase, while I understand that some think it doesnt mean the eradication of the Israeli people and state, need to realize that an actual genocidal terror group is using it to promote their cause. This is how terrorists work. Many other Middle East terror groups claim to do what they are doing for the sake of democracy, for example the Houthis. Just find a new phrase that promotes PEACE and reconciliation. Words matter.
Germany just arrested people saying something like, “From the river to the sea, there must be equality” or something like that. The issue is not the phrase, it’s that Israel likes being an ethnostate with approximately its current territorial boundaries.
@@nonmnone613 An ethnostate is not necessarily one in which there are no other ethnicities present at all. It can simply be one in which one ethnicity A) makes up the lion’s share of the political stakeholders and power brokers, and B) has a coherent understanding of itself as having a unified interest that it directs significant state resources toward protecting. Israel wasn’t any more keen on integrating the Palestinians when a secular org like PLO was their avatar, and it’s pretty clear when you argue with actual Zionists that they understand their project as one of Jewish hegemony over the state of Israel. And there are Israeli Jews who *despise* the minority of non-Jews, videos and accounts of their abuse and intimidation have been bubbling up for years.
The issue is not that some small group of bad actors also co-opted the phrase and this makes Israeli’s “feel bad” … the issue is that the majority usage of the phrase is a direct call for the dissolution of Israel or a dogwhistle thereof. Those who use it SOLELY as “treat Palestinians equally” are both a minority and unfortunately useful idiots to the majority. The suggested analogy to “BLM” also being “scary” to some white people people who we reasonably criticize/don’t take seriously when they say “all lives matter” are bunk because “BLM” has no underlying dogwhistle that legitimizes the fear of “BLM”. In fact, a more accurate parallel to “the River to the sea” is not “BLM” but actually the “all lives matter” people who literally use it as a dogwhistle to generate a bunch of useful idiots to parrot it because it sounds okay out of context.
~|EMOTION DETECTED|~ ~|OPINIONS INVALIDATED|~ I really do feel for Ethan here. He seems like someone who knows something is wrong. He can even point out what it is, but can't keep up when the other person is constantly trying to stall the conversation.
Poor Ethan man, I think the problem is thar he can't or won't engage with his real problem with the situation: The hasan to tankie/red fascist pipeline.
He had been warned. He didn't listen. He ridiculed and villified the people who told him that his new "friends" who stab him in the back at any moment. I can't feel bad for him. If he wasn't spineless and a coward this wouldn't have happened to him.
It's crazy how picky and choosy Hasan is towards what is considered racist and what group is or is not allowed to be offended towards something. If it helps him in his career he will go 180 and choose to defend racism or prejudice or whatever hateful shit.
yeah like he would sick his rabid audience on any right winger who dares to say similar things about a minority group real quick... but when Hasan does the same thing, his audience is too dumb to recognize it and realize that Hasan is just as bad as the people he claims to hate.
What does it say about someone when they won't make an effort to empathize with their friends. But they'll defend a dumb slogan with every fiber of their being?
The initial text you read from the PNC charter lays out the groundwork for the mass deportation of foreign born Jews, consistent with the statements given to the Lebanon paper.
There seems to be a strange trend on social media, especially US media. The longer you're an influencer the more monstrous and isolated you become. I wonder if it is inevitable.
Seeing Ethan cry is heartbreaking Hasan failed to moderate his community and the result is these people were given the false impression that saying horrible things to him was ok that some how him as a person who was progressive from the start who was just trying to understand a different prospective is a horrible person for not uncritically accepting what Hasan said
he said if there are two nazis at a table that doesn't mean all are but there is a certain level where there is guilt by association. So he believes that's too low of a bar but there is some bar.
Ask a jewish person in context of the holocaust why they don't like it the context is the holocaust. I'm a Jewish leftist, but you ask my dad or my grandparents. They would be definitely think its icky not gonna lie
Please also note that the swastika was appropriate by the nazis. It used has been a cultural symbol in india and other regions of the world for quite some time (millenia), but once the nazis exessively used it, it was burned. No matter how peaceful its origins might have been now it is seen as sign for fascist ideology and the crimes done under it. So Hassan defending "from the river to sea" on the grounds that it was not originally meant in a genocidal way (no matter if true or not), simply ends at the point where it has been exclusively used like that (as in the case of Hamas). The phrase is tainted now and you should be careful to use it.
except for the fact that this phrase has never been used to commit a genicidelike the swas was. Also, most people who use this phrase are not Hmas so that invalidates this point. By this logic "free pIestine" should be abandoned as well. the Iives of innocent people matters more than the feeIings of random peopIe
@@dulcecaramel that it is not only the Hamas but also the Iranian government and by proxy Hizbolla...all three a forces the willing encourage a genocide, it does not matter whether it has happened yet. Yes, many people that use this phrase don't have genocidal intention (or are not aware of it), but then again it the radical that stick (most people using the swastika up to say 1933, did also not want a genocide on the jews etc). There are multiple european countries currently considering a ban on the phrase and it is not all hyper zionist governments.
The Swastika has been found throughout Eurasia & Africa, The oldest instance found is from 12 Millennia ago in Iran, and has a lot history in Germany as well, many connected to Ironage Germanic people. It's use by the Nazis was part of the ahistorical Aryan mysticism. it's association with modern India is more to do with Islam/Rome/Christianity supremacy destroying Pagan religions & symbols in the west & middle east, It has a pretty crazy history.
I want to ask if people really believe its fair to paint Israel as 1-1 with say the US and slavery or with the Native Americans. It seems like you can only make that case if you leave out or downplay the importance of the oppression and genocide of Jews for millennial that lead them to become to protective and desperate for safety that hundreds of thousands agreed tl uproot their lives in the hope that their new home would be quite literally a promise land flowing with basic safety for their people.
I can see that comparison being made only because of the protestant movement to the Americas. I don't know enough of early settler/Native American relations during that time to say if the comparison goes further because I know generally there were peoples that were kind to the early settlers, and peoples that were violent/aggressive to them as well.
@@f1rdouglas I would say it's still unfair because the Puritans were being persecuted yes, but it definitely was not anywhere near as bad as the Jews right before and during WWII (as in they weren't being actively massacred en mass). And it wasn't like they still had a small population but noticeable that had lived in America nor did they have any Historic ties to anything. You could definitely argue that the Jews didn't have the strongest argument for creating Israel, but they sure had way more to back them up than the Puritans did.
@@VagabondRetro please don't misconstrue what I mean here. I wouldn't think to actually compare the two groups and histories together to that degree either. Merely pointing out some similarity between the two that I thought you were pointing out as well is all. Something I've always wondered (and I haven't been able to find much or very good resources about this) is what historical resources, evidences, etc., are there that help establish Israels historical claims to the Levant region? It seems that everyone keeps bringing up Palestinians historical relevancy (Pre 1960's existence), but everyone treats Israels General and recent history to only starting from the 1960's. I know that Israel treats the Torah as established history, and clearly in there it talks about them being there for hundreds of years, well before modern times. But I don't know how much of that history actually holds up to scrutiny in today's academics.
The oppressed often become oppressors themselves. The Tlaxcala who sided with the Spanish against the Mexica, and tried to maintain their ethnicity and freedom during colonization. That might be more comparable, though the Tlaxcala were indigenous to the region. The Zionists mostly originated from Central/Eastern Europe (Ashkenazim) and are the majority in Israel. Zionists were also backed by Western states due to their own antisemitism and imperialism within the Middle East.
@@andrewgreen5574this is something modern leftists and progressives are just utterly incapable of grasping lmao. At least American ones. To them it seems like all hegemonic power groups has been like that for all eternity and there is never switch arounds, reprisals etc. I wonder how someone like Hasan would explain the Rwandan genocide or the Yugoslav war.
Im not sure if Hasan has ever been genuine. Aside from switching up on his principles, he had that phase where he was painting his nails to try and fit in with a zoomer crowd... then immediately after was heavy into his muslim apologist phase. He's such a bizarre person. Like everything is just an aesthetic to him.
And we have a state that has spent 80 years branding itself as the teleological endpoint and sine qua non of Judaism to thank for that. The fact that ending apartheid means that people ill-disposed to their former oppressors get an equal say is a challenge that has to be dealt with, not a reason not to end apartheid. Israel is not resistant to a one-state solution because they’re specifically worried that Palestinians are going to vote to genocide them, they’re resistant to it because they’ve spent 80 years huffing an ideology that says that Jews axiomatically cannot be safe unless there is a polity in which they are an overwhelming majority of the voters and stakeholders.
"please don't get mad at me" bruh it's a debate. not ideal that that happens but i thought it was commonly accepted it's a possible workplace hazard so to speak
hasan is an entertaining streamer for silly shit like george santos, but i would never in a million years go to his coverage for info on anything serious
Ethan has reached the next stage of his Jordan Peterson curse in which he gets hyperemotional around awful people exploiting him. I hope he won't start talking like Kermit while being addicted to apple cider, completing his transformation to JP. Jokes aside, I'm amazed how Ethan can seemingly look more dreadful every year. Must be really awkward if your whole crew aside from Zach and Love is aligned with Hasan on this one while he's doing horseshoes around Ukraine and Palestine... 😢
Gosh, this is so painful to watch. I can't stand Ethan for other reasons, but he had a good point that Hasan refused to address, essentially why adamantly insist on using a slogan that is so widely misconstrued by Jews and creates fear and mistrust? I know that Israel is in the wrong and the Palestinians shouldn't have to make ANY concessions, including using "river to the sea", but in the broad scope of things it is such an insignificant thing, and realistically Israel has all the power and will most likely have to be a willing participant in a future peace, so shouldn't we try to avoid making them more paranoid? (But even more importantly, they have to start treating the Palestinians like future neighbors instead of creating more and more terrorists by killing so many civilians unnecessarily.)
@@pogo8050 He dances around the topic but there is more than enough for a reasonable person to conclude that he is pro-Hamas: 1. Days after the Oct 7 attacks, saying that Palestinians have the legal and moral right to violently take back their land from settlers. 2. There are settler babies. 3. Israel doesn't have the right to exist. 4. You can't separate Palestinians from Hamas. 5. Spreading Hamas propaganda including that the IDF was responsible for the hospital bombing. 6. Saying that Hamas doesn't use human shields. 7. Being friends with Second Thought who is openly pro-genocide. Hasan never denounced him. He only said his statements were "unproductive". Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said that America deserves 9/11 because of their actions in the Middle East.
seems like there's a key piece missing from this convo? like the part where Ethan straight up tells Hasan that Israel would use nuclear weapons before they would even consider any sort of recognition or rights for Palestinians, either a one-state OR two-state solution? any reason why this context was edited out? the end of the conversation was as contentious as it was specifically because of Ethan's resistance throughout and it seemed to me like Hasan's well of patience ran dry right around here. just don't understand why you edited the beginning out. also, why didn't you run the stats on Ethan's claim that 60% of all hate crime is experienced by Jews with the same energy you researched the 'from the river to the sea' quote? again, important context you omitted. why?
The stream reaction was cut into two segments. That's why the beginning of the debate is not included. Ethan & Hasan debated two topics: The One-state solution & From The River To The Sea.
Like how does ethan stating someone else's opinion I.e israelis using nukes before dissolving their boarders after oct 7th, make him anything? He's stating his view on someone else's position, he didn't even justify it or claim it was moral etc. He's stated so many times he wants Palestinian emancipation, for them to have there own state and an end to the violence, I honestly don't understand how his position is getting ignored in favour of omg ethan wants genocide, its so stupid
Lonerbox and his audience were not like this when he first hit the scene. It's truly hard to tell them from greaseball destiny fans or even groypers sometimes. They inherited Destiny's mind virus that makes them seethe about every dumb thing Hasan says, and distorts their view so much that Hasan is a legitimate monster killimg the country, rather than just a political commentator who has shitty half-baked takes sometimes. None of these political commentators are as smart as they think they are. They got lucky. It could just as easily have been one of us, and we'd have people shoveling whatever bullshit we produce into their gullet, and we'd have people who misinterpret everything we say on purpose.
@@smellysoysaucewhat is this in response to sorry? Like lonerbox has been incredibly charitable to hasan, he is barely ever brought up and when he is it isn't in a negative light?
How long does a group of people hold conquered territory until it's considered their homeland? As far as i am concerend everybody lives on conquered territory. The only people who can claim any piece of territory as their ancestoral homeland are the british people living on st. Helena and other such islands that were uninhibited before
I wonder if when he was in the WB, did he ask what they meant when they said "Free Palestine". There are videos of people in the WB being asked, but you know...
At the end of the day, calling either of them "sociopaths" or "psychopaths" or other derogatory bs is exactly how we got here in the first place. There was a lack of empathy from both sides, and a public debate with chats present was totally not the way to go about this.
Ethan is outwardly and explicitly empathetic in every conversation with Hasan, or without Hasan but regarding this topic. Say what you want about overzealous use of “psychopath” but don’t *both sides* this egregious showcase of imbalanced empathy.
@@rob9726 it’s not a baseless “gotcha”, This was criticizing both parties equally for a wrongdoing that only one of them has perpetrated. It is worth pointing out such flawed rhetoric.
@@Michael-kp4bd I'm not spouting rhetoric, I'm spouting my opinion. Jesus christ you can disagree, but we're not debating this. Go find someone else to browbeat.
@@rob9726 I’m just responding with my opinion! If this isn’t helpful to you, don’t engage with good faith discussion. This appeared to be a productive discussion so idk what’s wrong, but I’ll happily move along
Absolutely not watching 2 hours of this deranged nonsense, but I'm not sure that the own in the intro that references "from the river to the sea" is the own you think it is. Like you said, that slogan can be interpreted in a racist fashion, especially when used by racists. I have no idea what "racist" statements or arguments Ethan has been parroting but supposing that's true, then it is reasonable to see why people (i.e. Hasan's audience), would call him racist. There's a difference between nebulous slogans and overt/implicit racist remarks; it is more likely, and therefore reasonable, to call someone racist who is overtly or implicity racist. Hasan should tell his audience not to call Ethan racist, because he knows the truth, but is correct to say it's not surprising that A leads to B.
its hilarious to me that a an actuaIgenocide is being conducted and eveyone in the comments is like "how dare hasan be kinda mean to his friend when discussing said topic" We arent reaI peopIe to yaII, just a topic for entertainment. Boohoo some people were mean to ethan because he spread propagnda that's being used to end my famiIy. How horribIe for him. the priviIege and entitlement in these comments is lnsane
1) It's not a genocide. You don't have to cheapen the word "genocide" to try and make things sound worse than they are when they're already bad enough to condemn. 2) Just because one bad thing is happening in the world that means people can't complain or criticize other things? By that logic we shouldn't even care about Israel/Palestine at all, since there are far worse atrocities currently underway around the world.
yeh imagine people following and commentating on world news, geo politics and the surrounding issues. Even discussing how to move forward, crazy shit... Ethan isn' out here committing genocide, he has said time and time again he thinks the Israeli governments actions are insane, so why cant his friend show any sort of understanding in a conversation about rhetoric that many jews find disturbing? its not like ethans defending whats going on - he wants Palestinians to have their own county, equal rights etc also October 7th? what response did hamas hope for peace? were those actions genocidal? cos tbf its more than about hurt feelings but i mean you clicked on a video about ethan talking to his friend hasan about a phrase that he and many other jews finding disturbing like whats your point that because israel isnt bombing the shit out of us personally right now, murdering our loved ones etc and we are talking about something else that we are being entitled and showing our privilege? edit: i hope you and your family manage to keep safe and that this madness ends soon, the response is causing far too many civilian deaths whatever we call it
@@mastermobius1084 You care for their well being, and that's fair. But as far as everything else is concerned, calling the war a genocide is a dogwhistle.
Why is it never Hasan is too logical to see emotion. Why do you think logic is so much better than emotion when they were literally talking about feelings between 2 friends
yeh i mean its not like people were raped, murdered and dragged through the streets while being spat on by cheering crowds less than a month ago. fucking victim complex btw free Palestine
@@william4996wtf... thanks for giving me a brain haemorrhage. What is this racist rhetoric that minorities complaining about things that effect them is a victim complex. Also is it a complex when it's actual happening? Because I'm pretty sure black Americans have been historically discriminated against in the USA.
It is 100% not unreasonable. Part of earning so much $$ from such a large viewership is then paying moderators to boot toxic pieces of shit. Its in Hasan's own interest to defend his image and brand, especially if his growth and audience capture has basically peaked.
Ethan is like this because Hasan's community including mods have been horrific towards him and he is quite rightfully but hurt about it. Hasan obviously picks up on it towards the end but he's clearly unwilling to yeet his mods into the sun for it. You can point out his arguments were based on emotion and bad but I don't think you can call the emotional unreasonable given the context.
@@christiandaugherty6339 Wearing the aesthetic of "real" progressivism, for one. A majority of the anti-Israel arguments circulating today are just antisemitism coated in progressive rhetoric. They frame Israel as a country as "oppressor" ignoring the history of the country itself (including why it was formed) and take the side of the "oppressed", who believe that Israel is an illegitimate state not for _religious_ reasons. These people do not care where their rhetoric takes them and what effect it has on their communities, even if it means they're making braindead "you don't HAVE an ORIIGNAL opinion" takes in blind ignorance of the actual extremism they're participating in. For being supposedly progressive, they promote tribalistic attitudes and may as well be projecting their own sins onto their enemies. They're wearing the skin of progressivism and reaping all the benefits of sounding correct, but that is all they do: _Sound_ correct. Much of modern online leftism, including Hasan, is nothing but performative nonsense where the talking heads care even less about the damage they're causing. They sound intelligent, but if you critically analyze their tactics, it becomes apparent that they care less about truth, and more about sounding intelligent. Many cherrypick historical events for things to justify their outright toxic attitude, rather than promote understanding that would actually promote progress. As for why it is an aesthetic in specific... If the figureheads of 'progressivism' are nothing more than bad faith grifters, then is their entire position, their entire following not just an aesthetic they've deluded themselves into thinking _is_ their position?
@@FusionArmorXThe worst part is that opposing Israel from a progressive lens just requires saying "Ethnostates are bad". You can get into the specifics from there, but without that core all the arguments wind up being hollow at best. My hot take is that, in retrospect, the P. Flowers/Black separatist debacle should have lead to more community cleanup and lines drawn because the ethnic/racial protectionism issue really seems core to a lot of bad politics.
The fact that Hasan will get on XQC's case for not "moderating hate towards him (Hasan)" in his community but will act all indignant when Ethan points out how vicious and toxic his fans are towards him (Ethan) is just so telling. How can anyone look up to this guy?
Apaerently 40k people who watch his stream do. But he has way less reach on RUclips he gets like a bad view to sun ratio. I think he’s Fallin.
Yeah, plus it's like 10X worse than what was happening with XQC. They're straight up chanting for the death of Israeli people. Second time I'm gonna watch this, because I want to know what Lonerboxs views are on it, but Destiny's version pointed out how when they were watching the interview with the Palestinian guy, Hasan whole chat was just hyping up the idea of 1000 October 7th. Cheering bro, that's fucking sickening, like actually sickening. Meanwhile Hasan just plays stupid to his discord, main subreddits, literally everything just call Ethan racist or try to make the world think Ethan somehow supports oppression of Palestine or some shit.
He also contacted Vaush when everyone in the right mind was criticizing Hasan for spreading pro-Russian talking points insenuating that Vaush personally sent his fans to harass him, I think the word "Vaush" still banned in his live chat. It feels to me that Hasan doesn't care about the practical application of any politics he advocates for, he cares about what sounds "morally right" so he appeals to as many left-leaning people as possible.
Hasan has a lot of nerve saying that when he is the most fragile dude on the left and can't take criticism whatsoever. He told Vaush in DMs that he needs to reign in his fans because he can't take the criticism of his horrible Ukraine takes. Hasan is a fragile, spoiled richkid crybully.
@@RiceShouldBeFluffy pretty much, it gives them a license to support any sort of genocide too like they usually do because it's for a great cause of "socialism" or "anti-imperialism" or whatever else.
Hasan is a terrible friend he always act like he cant do anything when all the tools to mod his chat are in his hands
boo fucking hoo
It's funny when he was giving XqC shit for not moderating when they shittalk Hasan. XqC should just have said ''Hasan i love you but there is only so much i can do, which is nothing at all''
He only mods his chat when someone in there gives legitimate criticism against him or his more often then not bad takes or points
Just woke up from a coma I fell in 2016 and wanted to check in on Ethan. What's up Vape Nation!
lol I haven't thought about vape nashe in years 😂
vape naysh yall
you cant see it but im making a v and an n with my fingers out of respect
Wow! Great moves! Keep it up, proud of ya!
💀
Wow Hasan treats Ethan like shit, its amazing feat of pacience from him for not just cutting ties
I think it'll happen at some point, there's only so much one can take
@@Xetarine i just think him not snapping yet is feat of his amazing patience
@@dragonhunter6102 Yeah I agree
To be fair Ethan has done a lot of this to himself. He’s burned bridges and talked shit about so many people that would actually be on his side right now. Instead he finds himself stranded out in the lonely void of the far left with only unhinged tankies and mentally unstable college kids to keep him company. Even Jordan Peterson tried to warn him lmao
@@kainoizking oh for sure its hell of his own making
Hasan is the personification of politics as an aesthetic. His views are entirely motivated by fashion, he adopts and abandons principles entirely when it is convenient for him. Refuses to take any responsibility for the things he says and the people he influences, and absolutely refuses to engage with any criticism. Truly a blight upon discourse.
Excellent description. He is as shallow as a puddle.
Hasan makes the world a worse place.
I used to say Vaush was the personification of that but no, Hasan is that even more because in reality, Vaush CAN be intelligent and consistent if he actually wants to put in the effort (95% of the time he won't), while I think Hasan is just an idiot that doesn't care. They're both backstabbers though.
I see so many anti-capitalists posting eat the rich and bullshit on social media everyday.
_"The Hamassians are lying to you."_ 🗿
It's interesting that Hasan tells Ethan that it's understandable that his fans call Ethan racist, since he's saying things they've heard racists say. But at the same time, Hasan has no understanding of Ethan feeling weird about the use of the "from the river to the sea...", since actual murderous fascist terrorists have been using the statement as a rallying cry to kill Jews.
At least be consistent.
The only consistency hasan cares about is being consistently anti-west.
Whining about fairness or ethics completely mistakes the kind of person you are dealing with.
Hasan is the representation the left deserves for not squishing the wokescolds and tankies sooner
I’m becoming more and more convinced he doesn’t actually give a shit about anything, and it’s depressing as hell because I’ve been a fan of his for so long.
It is consistent. From the river to the sea is where Palestinians live, how is the phrase any more offensive than “free Palestine”, which can also be misconstrued to mean “free it of all Jews” and is also used that way when anti semitic Palestinians say it? By this logic, any pro Palestinian phrase can be taken as a call for genocide.
I can't imagine being so obtuse towards a friend when they mostly agree with me and only want to be assured that I have their back. Hasan clearly cares more about how he looks online then about how he treats his own friends.
He was incredibly ignorant and condescending towards Ethan since the beginning of this conflict. Ethan tried so hard to stay friendly towards Hasan but in all honesty their friendship should not survive this.
Also disgusting how he reacted to mod comments. I can’t imagine someone coming for my close minority friend like that and not instantly removing privileges. But then again, Hasan thinks friends are pawns and he can’t manipulate Ethan the way he wants to.
Yall really just hate Hasan for weird reasons. He was super patient with Ethan. Ethan was the one being inflammatory
@@yingyang2838 If you think patience means being condescending while never trying to actual stop people from calling Ethan racist when he is clearly not, then I guess you are on the money.
@@VagabondRetro Hasan is not responsible for his audience’s reaction to Ethan’s bullshit. I don’t think Ethan is racist but the shit he was saying sure sounded pretty iffy.
Hasan is no different than the rich people he criticizes. He doesn't care about whatever damage he does to society or people so long as he's making money. Ethan was just dollar signs to this guy; just a means of getting more reach. It's disgusting how unwilling he is to give just a salt grain of a concession to Ethan to show a little bit of empathy to a friend.
Watching Ethan's heart break was hard to watch. Hasan is a crappy friend.
Friend? This pshycopath doesn't have friends. Just people that are convenient to him at the moment. Ethan stopped being that last month.
Indeed
Regardless of the political discussion, if you ever try to be vulnerable or confide in a friend and this is the reaction you get, you need to find a new friend.
That's interesting. I would expect my friends to challenge me if I was putting my emotional and irrational fears above real world impacts and spreading propaganda. I would hope my friend would kick me in the ass for that.
@@MissMaserati The real world impacts like... Public opinion of Israeli citizens who we should be trying to win over? Do you even care about the real world impacts of anything?
@@MissMaserati Hasan only cares about pro-palestinian feelings and propaganda (self admitted), he doesn't care about pragmatics or objective reality. He openly says he doesn't care about jews here because he's already decided they're the oppressor, he will happily apologize for Hamas' actions because they're from the "oppressed" class, but says Lonerbox is being "charitable" for saying IDF "paniced" and caused a massacre. Plus saying the fears of a genocide happening to Jews in Isreal only after a month of Hamas commiting a low scale genocide is not irrational, it's common sense in context of a one-state solution run by a bitter vengeful Palestinian majority.
@@woobilicious. 'Low scale genocide' 😂
@@christiandaugherty6339 Why is that so funny? It's true.
At the end when Ethan was desperately trying for some common understanding from Hasán. You could tell in that moment that Ethan just wanted him to understand how a phrase that’s been spouted makes Jewish people feel. He was just wanting his friend to forget about the stream for a second and show him a moment of empathy, and Hasán couldn’t even do it lmao. I’m not even a fan of Ethan and I’ve had my views of him in the past but man, can’t help but feel bad for him. Can’t imagine your country going through one of the worst terrorist attacks of this century, feeling like everyone is against you simply for your ethnicity and then trying to turn to your friend for a showing of public support and your “friend” basically blames you for the hate being spewed at you by HIS community lol jeeeeesus
Hasan was like Facts dont care about your feelings!
Who needs enemies when you have friends like Hasan.
Hasan will say he is not defending Hamas in _any_ capacity, and then immediately defend Hamas by way of saying that there factions within the group that are less evil and actually want good things for the people... Which counts as a defense of Hamas in _any_ capacity.
I know Ethan made some basic mistakes in this conversation, but he thought he was talking to a friend and not prepared for a debate.
Hassan’s followers (and I used to be one) are still yelling at Ethan in his subreddits. Some of them want to run with the most bad faith interpretations of what Ethan said, to the point where they say the exact opposite of what Ethan has clearly stated he believes. Hassan does yell at his own chat when they do this to him, but makes excuses when they do it to Ethan and even his own mods were doing this.
That group is completely beyond seeing anything but what they want. They literally say Ethan compared the phrase to the confederate flag, that Ethan said free Palestine is a problem and giving them time stamps and circling the captions won’t even convince them otherwise.
I’m not sure what being antagonistic to people that also believe in human rights for Palestinians like Ethan does for Palestinians. It’s made me lose a lot of respect for people I tend to side with on most issues.
It's like what Ethan said. If they can't convince him, a very left-wing Jewish person that leans pro-Palestinian, then how the hell do they have any hope of convincing others?
But then again, I suppose their philosophy is that there's no need to convince others and that their righteousness is self-evident making anyone that doesn't agree with them a monster. They aren't interested in solving problems. They're interested in looking justified.
John Gray's Ultra-Liberal, go read it! You'll feel vindicated.
@@FranklinW Israel just being itself is frankly doing a lot to convince people.
Can you tell me why people like Hasan? I am genuinely curious. From every point of view he is an asshole. He does not care about facts and is an insecure manchild. Are people so insecure in themselves that they want someone similar or what?
1:20:54 hasan : we're broadly in agreement except when you wont just tell me im right
Hasan trying to use Jews to shut up Ethan's concerns, is like a Republican using black republicans to shut up the concerns of the black community broadly.
@@mr.negativenancy5751 I honestly don't know how big either group is. I wouldn't think it would make the comparison invalid, since it doesn't go on numbers but on theme, that is, tokenism.
As a jewish aussie leftist this was the moment I started yelling he such a pos
@@satiricgames2129i do find it kind of ironic that Israel from 1948 until like 1983 was a semi socialist/social democratic state and when Bernie sanders lived on one of the kibbutz there in the 60s it made him a democratic socialist and gave him the semi socialist/social democratic principles he held all his life and then in his campaign helped influence millions of young people to turn left due to his experiences in Israel when it was a semi socialist state kind of structured like Venezuela was under Hugo Chavez but was just more successful for far longer due to reparations and outside funding labor Zionism and Zionist ideology indirectly influenced so many to become socialist and hold socialist principles now are the very same ones that absolutely hate Israel now 😂
@@MegaAnimeforlifeand now its a fascist state ruled by likudniks
"It's a very important percentage of Jewish scholars" - Hasan : call me a quote miner but this has to be the most successful use of weasel words I've ever seen. He doesn't say how substantial that portion is and gives no hint about how representative it is.
Remember "crimea river"
Also how does ethan stating someone else's opinion I.e israelis using nukes before dissolving their boarders after oct 7th, make him anything? He's stating his view on someone else's position, he didn't even justify it or claim it was moral etc.
He's stated so many times he wants Palestinian emancipation, for them to have there own state and an end to the violence, I honestly don't understand how his position is getting ignored in favour of omg ethan wants apartheid and genocide, its so stupid and damaging that we just seem to be talking past each other
and yeh i've been arguing in the comments section its a long video
Man, at this point I have to wonder if ethan is doing this to save a friendship or if he just wants to stop one of the biggest influencers on the internet from radicalizing his massive following into the most hateful takes imaginable. Like, maybe he thinks his friendship with Hassan might give him some leverage into making him stop.
That's honestly the only reason i can come with for why Ethan is still trying. Otherwise, I would have ended this friendship when this mess started.
He’s looking for a voice of reason, and in disagreement, at least an acknowledgement that his feelings are valid. He will not be getting that from Hasan and I hope he finds actual voices of reason on the left, such as lonerbox and others
So many time Hasan begs Ethan to stop is basically just saying "PLEASE stop making my Hamas look bad!". It's so pathetic...
Honestly, it feels like Ethan is trying to reach for an emotional/sincere discussion on this whole subject topic but Hasan CANNOT stop switching it back to his talking points….which comes across like he doesn’t really care.
It’s like when Ethan recollected on a clip he saw of a Palestinian dad holding his dead child and still talking to them like they were alive, Ethan just broke down in tears and Hasan just took over and starts doing his talking points.
I hate absolutely everything about this situation. It's like Covid all over again with all the mis/disinformation and the tribalism over an already horrific situation.
Talking about issues =/= endorsing a side. Goddamn partisanship team sports.
"Sorry we couldnt make peace on this one issue."
I love how dismissive this is. Hasan really is a heartless jerk.
Ethan: What if they say Israel should not exist?
Hasan: That depends.
Me: Bye Hasan.
“Israel” as a state that explicitly caters to, and exerts significant political, military, and economic effort to ensure, a demographic majority of Jewish people needs to not exist. There’s a pretty large number of Zionists who will openly tell anybody who listens that a state that does not do that is not Israel, so it’s a loaded question to ask in the first place.
Ngl, I was a long-term Hasan fan (pre-leftovers), but after this whole saga, I don't watch him. Ethan was coming to this in good faith, and Hasan was just passively approving the part of his audience, which is incredibly hostile and nasty towards Ethan. Ethan is supposed to be a friend, and Hasan is a hypocrite because he was in bits when XQC wasn't moderating his chat. Ethan didn’t say anything wrong, but everything Ethan said was completely disregarded/fought against. There was no 'meeting of minds'. Very much sticking to a script on Hasan's part, not daring to concede a point, meet halfway, or simply discuss - the debate bro mindset was fully engaged. Even though I was ecstatic when leftovers was announced, I am so glad it's over, and the toxic hostile fans are slowly leaving the H3H3 chat.
Hasan is extremely unempathetic and it's very gross. Ethan tries so hard to connect with him and gets nothing in return.
Still can’t believe I was subbing to Hassan for a year now. I gotta cancel that. His Ukraine and approach to Palestine are goofy
I find people like you the most interesting, did u wake up one day and hit your head? “Took me a year to realize I didn’t like the guy enough to keep paying for his life”
@@JohnSmith-gm5yn No. I’m subbed to a lot of streamers on twitch and RUclips and forgot I was still subbed to him. Also I’m mostly subbed to people to support them because I like their content. I rarely have time to actually watch streams live because of my job. It’s the same situation with vaush. I haven’t enjoyed his takes recently and am apparently still subbed to him monthly on his website. I tried to cancel the renewal but I keep getting an error message. Point being, it’s very easy for me to overlook who I’m paying when I rarely get on the app and mostly watch segments of stream highlights on RUclips while working.
@EricTheRed98 everything you have said makes u seem like an idiot
So you like shilling for israel and ukraine?? True baby leftist moment
Ethan is right: it means one arab state from the river to the sea
The river to the sea phrase, while I understand that some think it doesnt mean the eradication of the Israeli people and state, need to realize that an actual genocidal terror group is using it to promote their cause. This is how terrorists work. Many other Middle East terror groups claim to do what they are doing for the sake of democracy, for example the Houthis. Just find a new phrase that promotes PEACE and reconciliation. Words matter.
Germany just arrested people saying something like, “From the river to the sea, there must be equality” or something like that. The issue is not the phrase, it’s that Israel likes being an ethnostate with approximately its current territorial boundaries.
@@keithjackewicz8423 Israel is not an ethno state? There are Arabs that live there? Also, what control do they have over German policy?
@@nonmnone613 An ethnostate is not necessarily one in which there are no other ethnicities present at all. It can simply be one in which one ethnicity A) makes up the lion’s share of the political stakeholders and power brokers, and B) has a coherent understanding of itself as having a unified interest that it directs significant state resources toward protecting. Israel wasn’t any more keen on integrating the Palestinians when a secular org like PLO was their avatar, and it’s pretty clear when you argue with actual Zionists that they understand their project as one of Jewish hegemony over the state of Israel. And there are Israeli Jews who *despise* the minority of non-Jews, videos and accounts of their abuse and intimidation have been bubbling up for years.
The issue is not that some small group of bad actors also co-opted the phrase and this makes Israeli’s “feel bad” … the issue is that the majority usage of the phrase is a direct call for the dissolution of Israel or a dogwhistle thereof. Those who use it SOLELY as “treat Palestinians equally” are both a minority and unfortunately useful idiots to the majority.
The suggested analogy to “BLM” also being “scary” to some white people people who we reasonably criticize/don’t take seriously when they say “all lives matter” are bunk because “BLM” has no underlying dogwhistle that legitimizes the fear of “BLM”.
In fact, a more accurate parallel to “the River to the sea” is not “BLM” but actually the “all lives matter” people who literally use it as a dogwhistle to generate a bunch of useful idiots to parrot it because it sounds okay out of context.
And then the bad actors will use the new phrase. And then the phrase will have to change because bad actors use it. Rinse, repeat.
~|EMOTION DETECTED|~
~|OPINIONS INVALIDATED|~
I really do feel for Ethan here. He seems like someone who knows something is wrong. He can even point out what it is, but can't keep up when the other person is constantly trying to stall the conversation.
I really wish Palestinians were represented by better people.
Who needs enemies when you have friends like Hasan?
Poor Ethan man, I think the problem is thar he can't or won't engage with his real problem with the situation:
The hasan to tankie/red fascist pipeline.
He had been warned. He didn't listen. He ridiculed and villified the people who told him that his new "friends" who stab him in the back at any moment. I can't feel bad for him. If he wasn't spineless and a coward this wouldn't have happened to him.
@@Itisoverthere-rw who warned him again? Bc I wouldn't trust a rando on the internet.
@@67fofo Jordan Peterson.
“Tankie” is a meaningless phrase.
@@keithjackewicz8423 No, it isn't.
I'm gonna start calling him Hasan of Akkad
It's crazy how picky and choosy Hasan is towards what is considered racist and what group is or is not allowed to be offended towards something. If it helps him in his career he will go 180 and choose to defend racism or prejudice or whatever hateful shit.
yeah like he would sick his rabid audience on any right winger who dares to say similar things about a minority group real quick... but when Hasan does the same thing, his audience is too dumb to recognize it and realize that Hasan is just as bad as the people he claims to hate.
He says he isn't anti semtic but it seems he has an issue with jews
What does it say about someone when they won't make an effort to empathize with their friends. But they'll defend a dumb slogan with every fiber of their being?
The initial text you read from the PNC charter lays out the groundwork for the mass deportation of foreign born Jews, consistent with the statements given to the Lebanon paper.
Hamas having more of the electoral vote than the Nazis is not something I thought I would learn today
I was there for this and it was a lot longer it felt like lol
There seems to be a strange trend on social media, especially US media. The longer you're an influencer the more monstrous and isolated you become. I wonder if it is inevitable.
Seeing Ethan cry is heartbreaking Hasan failed to moderate his community and the result is these people were given the false impression that saying horrible things to him was ok that some how him as a person who was progressive from the start who was just trying to understand a different prospective is a horrible person for not uncritically accepting what Hasan said
he said if there are two nazis at a table that doesn't mean all are but there is a certain level where there is guilt by association. So he believes that's too low of a bar but there is some bar.
16:34 I love it when the mask slips.
Ask a jewish person in context of the holocaust why they don't like it the context is the holocaust. I'm a Jewish leftist, but you ask my dad or my grandparents. They would be definitely think its icky not gonna lie
Just when you thought Hasan couldn't get any worse...
The ten nazis got to be a meme on Reddit
Please also note that the swastika was appropriate by the nazis. It used has been a cultural symbol in india and other regions of the world for quite some time (millenia), but once the nazis exessively used it, it was burned. No matter how peaceful its origins might have been now it is seen as sign for fascist ideology and the crimes done under it. So Hassan defending "from the river to sea" on the grounds that it was not originally meant in a genocidal way (no matter if true or not), simply ends at the point where it has been exclusively used like that (as in the case of Hamas). The phrase is tainted now and you should be careful to use it.
except for the fact that this phrase has never been used to commit a genicidelike the swas was. Also, most people who use this phrase are not Hmas so that invalidates this point. By this logic "free pIestine" should be abandoned as well. the Iives of innocent people matters more than the feeIings of random peopIe
@@dulcecaramel that it is not only the Hamas but also the Iranian government and by proxy Hizbolla...all three a forces the willing encourage a genocide, it does not matter whether it has happened yet. Yes, many people that use this phrase don't have genocidal intention (or are not aware of it), but then again it the radical that stick (most people using the swastika up to say 1933, did also not want a genocide on the jews etc). There are multiple european countries currently considering a ban on the phrase and it is not all hyper zionist governments.
It’s still used pretty regularly in Mongolia
The Swastika has been found throughout Eurasia & Africa, The oldest instance found is from 12 Millennia ago in Iran, and has a lot history in Germany as well, many connected to Ironage Germanic people. It's use by the Nazis was part of the ahistorical Aryan mysticism. it's association with modern India is more to do with Islam/Rome/Christianity supremacy destroying Pagan religions & symbols in the west & middle east, It has a pretty crazy history.
@@woobilicious.It was also chosen to specifically rival the imposing nature of the hammer & sickle imagery.
I think every intelligent comment has been made already, but 1:20:00 check out the gams on Ethan. Hubba hubba
I want to see this original video, where is it at?
I can find black people that say the n-word isn't offensive, is hasan ok with people using it now?
Hasan not too bright
I want to ask if people really believe its fair to paint Israel as 1-1 with say the US and slavery or with the Native Americans. It seems like you can only make that case if you leave out or downplay the importance of the oppression and genocide of Jews for millennial that lead them to become to protective and desperate for safety that hundreds of thousands agreed tl uproot their lives in the hope that their new home would be quite literally a promise land flowing with basic safety for their people.
I can see that comparison being made only because of the protestant movement to the Americas. I don't know enough of early settler/Native American relations during that time to say if the comparison goes further because I know generally there were peoples that were kind to the early settlers, and peoples that were violent/aggressive to them as well.
@@f1rdouglas I would say it's still unfair because the Puritans were being persecuted yes, but it definitely was not anywhere near as bad as the Jews right before and during WWII (as in they weren't being actively massacred en mass). And it wasn't like they still had a small population but noticeable that had lived in America nor did they have any Historic ties to anything. You could definitely argue that the Jews didn't have the strongest argument for creating Israel, but they sure had way more to back them up than the Puritans did.
@@VagabondRetro please don't misconstrue what I mean here. I wouldn't think to actually compare the two groups and histories together to that degree either. Merely pointing out some similarity between the two that I thought you were pointing out as well is all. Something I've always wondered (and I haven't been able to find much or very good resources about this) is what historical resources, evidences, etc., are there that help establish Israels historical claims to the Levant region?
It seems that everyone keeps bringing up Palestinians historical relevancy (Pre 1960's existence), but everyone treats Israels General and recent history to only starting from the 1960's. I know that Israel treats the Torah as established history, and clearly in there it talks about them being there for hundreds of years, well before modern times. But I don't know how much of that history actually holds up to scrutiny in today's academics.
The oppressed often become oppressors themselves.
The Tlaxcala who sided with the Spanish against the Mexica, and tried to maintain their ethnicity and freedom during colonization. That might be more comparable, though the Tlaxcala were indigenous to the region.
The Zionists mostly originated from Central/Eastern Europe (Ashkenazim) and are the majority in Israel. Zionists were also backed by Western states due to their own antisemitism and imperialism within the Middle East.
@@andrewgreen5574this is something modern leftists and progressives are just utterly incapable of grasping lmao. At least American ones. To them it seems like all hegemonic power groups has been like that for all eternity and there is never switch arounds, reprisals etc. I wonder how someone like Hasan would explain the Rwandan genocide or the Yugoslav war.
"Slogan for nonces" Great Stuff!
I hate how Boner uses what Hasan said earlier to show he is a hypocrite. So debate pervy of him.
Im not sure if Hasan has ever been genuine. Aside from switching up on his principles, he had that phase where he was painting his nails to try and fit in with a zoomer crowd... then immediately after was heavy into his muslim apologist phase.
He's such a bizarre person.
Like everything is just an aesthetic to him.
What is a “Muslim apologist” phase
The problem I find with from river to the sea is that who is the people that are going to enact that? We all know they aren't very jew friendly.
And we have a state that has spent 80 years branding itself as the teleological endpoint and sine qua non of Judaism to thank for that. The fact that ending apartheid means that people ill-disposed to their former oppressors get an equal say is a challenge that has to be dealt with, not a reason not to end apartheid. Israel is not resistant to a one-state solution because they’re specifically worried that Palestinians are going to vote to genocide them, they’re resistant to it because they’ve spent 80 years huffing an ideology that says that Jews axiomatically cannot be safe unless there is a polity in which they are an overwhelming majority of the voters and stakeholders.
"please don't get mad at me" bruh it's a debate. not ideal that that happens but i thought it was commonly accepted it's a possible workplace hazard so to speak
Cenk's nephew is a protected class.
hasan is an entertaining streamer for silly shit like george santos, but i would never in a million years go to his coverage for info on anything serious
Ethan has reached the next stage of his Jordan Peterson curse in which he gets hyperemotional around awful people exploiting him. I hope he won't start talking like Kermit while being addicted to apple cider, completing his transformation to JP. Jokes aside, I'm amazed how Ethan can seemingly look more dreadful every year. Must be really awkward if your whole crew aside from Zach and Love is aligned with Hasan on this one while he's doing horseshoes around Ukraine and Palestine... 😢
JP was right when he warned him.
um jordan peteron experiences "unimaginable dread" when drinking apple cider vinegar. get your Jordan Peterson lore right!😡😡😡
Ethan did a really good job here wow
Gosh, this is so painful to watch. I can't stand Ethan for other reasons, but he had a good point that Hasan refused to address, essentially why adamantly insist on using a slogan that is so widely misconstrued by Jews and creates fear and mistrust? I know that Israel is in the wrong and the Palestinians shouldn't have to make ANY concessions, including using "river to the sea", but in the broad scope of things it is such an insignificant thing, and realistically Israel has all the power and will most likely have to be a willing participant in a future peace, so shouldn't we try to avoid making them more paranoid? (But even more importantly, they have to start treating the Palestinians like future neighbors instead of creating more and more terrorists by killing so many civilians unnecessarily.)
Hasan: He doesn't speak for Hamas.
Him: a Hamas spokesperson...
Hamasabi
Hasan: Oct 7 was justified decolonization to oppose apartheid.
Hamas: We will do Oct 7 again.
Hasan: He didn't really mean that.
@@theprinceofpie I don’t think Hasan ever said something like that
@@pogo8050 He dances around the topic but there is more than enough for a reasonable person to conclude that he is pro-Hamas:
1. Days after the Oct 7 attacks, saying that Palestinians have the legal and moral right to violently take back their land from settlers.
2. There are settler babies.
3. Israel doesn't have the right to exist.
4. You can't separate Palestinians from Hamas.
5. Spreading Hamas propaganda including that the IDF was responsible for the hospital bombing.
6. Saying that Hamas doesn't use human shields.
7. Being friends with Second Thought who is openly pro-genocide. Hasan never denounced him. He only said his statements were "unproductive".
Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said that America deserves 9/11 because of their actions in the Middle East.
Shock horror, the himbo has and had bad takes.
Will Ethan learn?
Hasan piker is the hulk hogan of political twitch
Why does lonerbox have Destiny’s inflection? Lmao
He doesn't, you just watch too much internet.
@@rob9726 he def does watch destiny lmao
@@theshelteredlife2 Yucky.
Hasans community is just 1930s KPD party vibes
Is Ethan in the matrix?
seems like there's a key piece missing from this convo? like the part where Ethan straight up tells Hasan that Israel would use nuclear weapons before they would even consider any sort of recognition or rights for Palestinians, either a one-state OR two-state solution? any reason why this context was edited out? the end of the conversation was as contentious as it was specifically because of Ethan's resistance throughout and it seemed to me like Hasan's well of patience ran dry right around here. just don't understand why you edited the beginning out.
also, why didn't you run the stats on Ethan's claim that 60% of all hate crime is experienced by Jews with the same energy you researched the 'from the river to the sea' quote? again, important context you omitted. why?
The stream reaction was cut into two segments. That's why the beginning of the debate is not included. Ethan & Hasan debated two topics: The One-state solution & From The River To The Sea.
Like how does ethan stating someone else's opinion I.e israelis using nukes before dissolving their boarders after oct 7th, make him anything? He's stating his view on someone else's position, he didn't even justify it or claim it was moral etc.
He's stated so many times he wants Palestinian emancipation, for them to have there own state and an end to the violence, I honestly don't understand how his position is getting ignored in favour of omg ethan wants genocide, its so stupid
Lonerbox and his audience were not like this when he first hit the scene. It's truly hard to tell them from greaseball destiny fans or even groypers sometimes.
They inherited Destiny's mind virus that makes them seethe about every dumb thing Hasan says, and distorts their view so much that Hasan is a legitimate monster killimg the country, rather than just a political commentator who has shitty half-baked takes sometimes.
None of these political commentators are as smart as they think they are. They got lucky. It could just as easily have been one of us, and we'd have people shoveling whatever bullshit we produce into their gullet, and we'd have people who misinterpret everything we say on purpose.
@@smellysoysaucewhat is this in response to sorry?
Like lonerbox has been incredibly charitable to hasan, he is barely ever brought up and when he is it isn't in a negative light?
@@smellysoysaucewhat are you yappin about
How long does a group of people hold conquered territory until it's considered their homeland? As far as i am concerend everybody lives on conquered territory. The only people who can claim any piece of territory as their ancestoral homeland are the british people living on st. Helena and other such islands that were uninhibited before
I wonder if when he was in the WB, did he ask what they meant when they said "Free Palestine". There are videos of people in the WB being asked, but you know...
At the end of the day, calling either of them "sociopaths" or "psychopaths" or other derogatory bs is exactly how we got here in the first place. There was a lack of empathy from both sides, and a public debate with chats present was totally not the way to go about this.
Ethan is outwardly and explicitly empathetic in every conversation with Hasan, or without Hasan but regarding this topic.
Say what you want about overzealous use of “psychopath” but don’t *both sides* this egregious showcase of imbalanced empathy.
@@Michael-kp4bd Since when did criticizing both sides become some sort of gotcha? SMH
@@rob9726 it’s not a baseless “gotcha”, This was criticizing both parties equally for a wrongdoing that only one of them has perpetrated. It is worth pointing out such flawed rhetoric.
@@Michael-kp4bd I'm not spouting rhetoric, I'm spouting my opinion. Jesus christ you can disagree, but we're not debating this. Go find someone else to browbeat.
@@rob9726 I’m just responding with my opinion! If this isn’t helpful to you, don’t engage with good faith discussion. This appeared to be a productive discussion so idk what’s wrong, but I’ll happily move along
Absolutely not watching 2 hours of this deranged nonsense, but I'm not sure that the own in the intro that references "from the river to the sea" is the own you think it is. Like you said, that slogan can be interpreted in a racist fashion, especially when used by racists. I have no idea what "racist" statements or arguments Ethan has been parroting but supposing that's true, then it is reasonable to see why people (i.e. Hasan's audience), would call him racist. There's a difference between nebulous slogans and overt/implicit racist remarks; it is more likely, and therefore reasonable, to call someone racist who is overtly or implicity racist. Hasan should tell his audience not to call Ethan racist, because he knows the truth, but is correct to say it's not surprising that A leads to B.
Fair enough, but the point of bringing up that example was to show that he didn't tell his audience not to call him racist, wasn't it?
its hilarious to me that a an actuaIgenocide is being conducted and eveyone in the comments is like "how dare hasan be kinda mean to his friend when discussing said topic"
We arent reaI peopIe to yaII, just a topic for entertainment. Boohoo some people were mean to ethan because he spread propagnda that's being used to end my famiIy. How horribIe for him. the priviIege and entitlement in these comments is lnsane
1) It's not a genocide. You don't have to cheapen the word "genocide" to try and make things sound worse than they are when they're already bad enough to condemn.
2) Just because one bad thing is happening in the world that means people can't complain or criticize other things? By that logic we shouldn't even care about Israel/Palestine at all, since there are far worse atrocities currently underway around the world.
yeh imagine people following and commentating on world news, geo politics and the surrounding issues. Even discussing how to move forward, crazy shit...
Ethan isn' out here committing genocide, he has said time and time again he thinks the Israeli governments actions are insane, so why cant his friend show any sort of understanding in a conversation about rhetoric that many jews find disturbing? its not like ethans defending whats going on - he wants Palestinians to have their own county, equal rights etc
also October 7th? what response did hamas hope for peace? were those actions genocidal? cos tbf its more than about hurt feelings
but i mean you clicked on a video about ethan talking to his friend hasan about a phrase that he and many other jews finding disturbing
like whats your point that because israel isnt bombing the shit out of us personally right now, murdering our loved ones etc and we are talking about something else that we are being entitled and showing our privilege?
edit: i hope you and your family manage to keep safe and that this madness ends soon, the response is causing far too many civilian deaths whatever we call it
You don't care about the conflict beyond the aesthetic victories you can gain from it.
@@FusionArmorX I have family over there I care quite alot, what a wierd assumption
@@mastermobius1084 You care for their well being, and that's fair.
But as far as everything else is concerned, calling the war a genocide is a dogwhistle.
I didnt realize this community hated hasan so much lol. Imo Hasan did what he could but Ethan is to emotional to see reason
Why is it never Hasan is too logical to see emotion. Why do you think logic is so much better than emotion when they were literally talking about feelings between 2 friends
Emotions detected.
Opinion: INVALIDATED!
@@deadrottenbirdThe most woman comment ever 🤣
HamasanAbi
The jewish victim complex is wild
yeh i mean its not like people were raped, murdered and dragged through the streets while being spat on by cheering crowds less than a month ago. fucking victim complex
btw free Palestine
Agreed. Just like the African American victim complex.
@@william4996wtf... thanks for giving me a brain haemorrhage. What is this racist rhetoric that minorities complaining about things that effect them is a victim complex. Also is it a complex when it's actual happening? Because I'm pretty sure black Americans have been historically discriminated against in the USA.
I know Hasan has been cringe a lot (even in this convo too) but Ethan is being unreasonable here
This video was posted like 10 minutes ago and is 2 hours long lmfao wtf are you talking about
It is 100% not unreasonable. Part of earning so much $$ from such a large viewership is then paying moderators to boot toxic pieces of shit. Its in Hasan's own interest to defend his image and brand, especially if his growth and audience capture has basically peaked.
So you think Jews are equivalent to White people in the US?
Actually, Hasan shouldn't be a total cunt who shirks the responsibility of his audience at every turn and denigrates and minimizes his "friends".
Ethan is like this because Hasan's community including mods have been horrific towards him and he is quite rightfully but hurt about it.
Hasan obviously picks up on it towards the end but he's clearly unwilling to yeet his mods into the sun for it.
You can point out his arguments were based on emotion and bad but I don't think you can call the emotional unreasonable given the context.
Ethan went full wife guy and the fear of upsetting his Israeli wife is taking it's toll on his mental health.
what kinda movie you living in lol
Not only misogynistic, but also probably kinda antisemitic.
my thoughts exactly. also just condecending on a personal level. @@rob9726
Hasan just out here "educating people".
Hi LonerBox!
Lonerbox. how does it feel to be Destiny's little dog?
Says the one who thinks politics is an aesthetic.
@@FusionArmorXWhat are you basing that on? What 'aesthetic'?
@@christiandaugherty6339 Wearing the aesthetic of "real" progressivism, for one.
A majority of the anti-Israel arguments circulating today are just antisemitism coated in progressive rhetoric. They frame Israel as a country as "oppressor" ignoring the history of the country itself (including why it was formed) and take the side of the "oppressed", who believe that Israel is an illegitimate state not for _religious_ reasons.
These people do not care where their rhetoric takes them and what effect it has on their communities, even if it means they're making braindead "you don't HAVE an ORIIGNAL opinion" takes in blind ignorance of the actual extremism they're participating in. For being supposedly progressive, they promote tribalistic attitudes and may as well be projecting their own sins onto their enemies.
They're wearing the skin of progressivism and reaping all the benefits of sounding correct, but that is all they do: _Sound_ correct. Much of modern online leftism, including Hasan, is nothing but performative nonsense where the talking heads care even less about the damage they're causing. They sound intelligent, but if you critically analyze their tactics, it becomes apparent that they care less about truth, and more about sounding intelligent. Many cherrypick historical events for things to justify their outright toxic attitude, rather than promote understanding that would actually promote progress.
As for why it is an aesthetic in specific... If the figureheads of 'progressivism' are nothing more than bad faith grifters, then is their entire position, their entire following not just an aesthetic they've deluded themselves into thinking _is_ their position?
@@FusionArmorXThe worst part is that opposing Israel from a progressive lens just requires saying "Ethnostates are bad". You can get into the specifics from there, but without that core all the arguments wind up being hollow at best. My hot take is that, in retrospect, the P. Flowers/Black separatist debacle should have lead to more community cleanup and lines drawn because the ethnic/racial protectionism issue really seems core to a lot of bad politics.