What a wonderful conversation between two great minds and kindred spirits if I can dare call you both. Thank you very much.I enjoyed every bit of this. God bless. Keep we’re. Fr.Richard the world needs you.
I envy you as I seem to be stuck in doom. Praying that Richard Rohr, who I find myself loving, can help me out. My best to you and thanks for the inspiration.
@@catem3102 You'll have to go within, that is, meditate. There is a sun of joy in there, though you'd hardly believe it. I sympathize with you that you don't believe it's possible -- and even, that, perhaps, it would be immoral to find a private campfire to warm you as the world falls into chaos. But I tell you: your efforts will be multiplied in that world you love, if you connect to Power. This message is Real. I only deliver it.
I do believe it's possible, just not for me. But I was just listening to another interview where Fr Richard admitted 'The Empire' was absurd and that if we couldn't somehow reconcile with that absurdity we'd go mad. That's where I am. But my task is to love all of creation, even if that means The Empire/Machine too. It's going to be hard to reconcile with reality, but it's what there is. Ouch. Thank you for,your response and I will practice contemplation and meditation.
@@CM-ur5rp I totally get that. Maybe this can help: imagine you are in a spaceship viewing the planet. You have no real worries, you just look at the humans and see what they do. You'll see the absurdity, and you'll just laugh about it. You'll see a few people avoiding the absurdity, and probably feel some respect for them. You won't be miserable or upset. Because you know there is a wider world. Your home planet is super cool, for example, and not absurd. You too, have a home planet. Strangely enough, it's found within. If you see absurdity, so does God. Trust in Him and keep your eyes on Him, rather than wasting time making plans and schemes to fix the absurdity. Anyhow, that's what I'm tryin'! I have spent plenty of wasted hours worrying :).
thegreatstory I discovered Richard months before covid with the Universal Christ. During covid he has inspired me to find my true self. That's why I'm using my gifts and built a team of volunteers to Gvbck.org. 🍻 Here's to falling upwards!!
Thank you mr. Couch for your kind response to my two comments. I was delighted that you replied. I am an 80 year old lady living in Ottawa, Canada. I am of Indian decent( Bombay ,India) I am an ardent follower of dear Richard and watch all his speeches and podcasts and have read many of his books. I found your conversation with Fr.Richard very fascinating and enlightening. I thang God for people like you and Richard. merry Christmas to you and your family. God bless you. Celine Ghiara.
yes, I put my faith and receive hope from the evolutionary promise of cataclysm leading to emergence! The hope is that humanity will rediscover our humility with our place in this reality. Lets get over ourselves and embrace the gift of vulnerable existence. So lovely to meet Richard Rohr through your work here. Thank you.
Thank you once again for the wonderful conversation between two great minds. I am so enlightened and enriched listing to you both. Fr. Richard keep well. Sending you positive and healing thoughts.
I've just started working my way through these videos - first with Holmgren - and now this. Thank you so much for making and sharing these, this is exactly what we need as we face our future: not only practical resilience, but also an absolute kind of hope.
I came here for Holmgren too, and am now working my way through all the episodes. Thank you Michael and Connie for your time and energy. I count myself very lucky to be now cognizant of our current predicament. Still early stages of grief for me. It is hard. Would really really love to hear another interview with David Holmgren especially. I feel he might have some valuable insights since the recording in late 2019. I know it would mean the world to many Permies around the planet. Again, thank you both.
As an atheist, & as a critic of the extremes of white evangelism as preached by some rabble rousing con artists, I am nevertheless glad that I stumbled upon this series with its side door to ecotheism resource writings et al.
Thank you for the riveting conversation. Though I'm not a Christian, I feel as a kindred spirit to both of these men. At one point I wept. The environmental situation is far bigger than what the mindset of humanity can do to seriously mitigate, though we are morally bound to try. Yet overpopulation proceeds at breakneck speed. Personally, I have no hope. There may turn out to be survivors, but for the evolution of life to eventually heal to restore a future biodiversity.. this magnificent jewel of a planet will be better off if none of us are around.
I just don't understand it. How can you look at the face of Jesus and then equate that to Donald Trump. Christianity has been hijacked by evil and hatred. It's heartbreaking.
I respect the Amish for having the courage to live their truth and say, "No" to modern technology beyond what they can all agree to be valuable. Do I think they are perfect? No. Neither are they monolithic as a group. Some are very conservative. Others split off to form their own groups if they are wanting to allow more modernity into their lives. Mennonites being the most liberal.
Very insightful even though I find it terrifying.. I entered in the stage of grief when Trump won.. I've lost faith in so many areas. Thank you for letting us know there are still wise people.
Thanks for your heartful vulnerability, Claudia. Please do make time for the others in this series. I promise, you'll be glad you did! www.postdoom.com/
Claudia Scott I, too, have lost faith in many areas with the turns that have become so evident in our political system. I see the downfall so clearly rushing toward us. I have a sense of inevitability that our speakers refer. I just thought of the words to the song from Mad Max...”we don’t need another hero. We need to know the way home.”
Claudia, you were among many, take heart! Let's keep praying for the earth, for truth & the good, & plant trees, regenerate soil, soul & habitat for all beings & give to conservation groups--they need it...& let's get out the vote best we pissibly can.
Check out the video called “Tree Sisters” . it’s one of the sessions on “Buddha at the gas station” on you tube. Really really brought me to want to be part of the solution in whatever way I am able.
Thanks, Diane. If you've not already seen it, my latest two-part video series, "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" has garnered 125,000 views in 12 days (a first for me): ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Please join us, if you're so led: postdoom.com/discussions/ I also recommend the "post-doom" conversations and resources found here: postdoom.com
I believe you are guided by divine wisdom. I have just witnessed how powerful the ego is. The overarching background buzz of this spiritual awakening has been “power”. Undefined power! God is the energy of the universe! We need to surrender totally to God’s energy in order to become one with the divine! The ego is the negative polarity that repels us from God! If you have time to talk let me know Thanks Doug
really love this - your showing and providing the times from what you want to hear made me listen to the whole thing... i'm just ripped open and vulnerable to the wolves, can't afford to go to Albuquerque, resentful of technology, and no career. I love the 'doomful' honesty of this, will look into you as RR has been my Christian eyelid peeling eye opening guru, and what you say is comforting to the soul, as this video has been to me. THANK YA
12:10 - I think so many are hesitant to adopt a mindset that requires you to let go of everything you’ve enjoyed and known your whole life because even when you show them a smoking gun on climate change , our conspiracy theory world has them afraid it will eventually be proven a scam. After all, what they’re being asked to except is no small pill.
Agreed. Have you seen my latest video? (73,000 views in 9 days): "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament": ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html
I didn't hear it in this post, but if 2/3 of our world is basically starving daily, then we have to respond, if we have any resources at all. And we have to boldly transmit the message to respond with urgency, because no doubt many that hear us are already getting, but perhaps not responding. The average American a smidgen above poverty should probably be able to go a little below and help ten people in the process. Some of them will prosper themselves after being given a better chance and help ten more. With a global population below 10^10 we are guilty of not believing, very guilty.
It's not the language describing reality, it's reality shrunk into words. Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus, but most don't need a "Virgin birth" as patriarchal proof of male divinity, especially if you STOP apprising divinity in a "sexual" manner or even being a "being" - like an Asian idea of "non-being." "This whole planet is the promised land, for every child woman and man. The best Post Doom idealism would erase all the ancient rites and religions that separate humans into divided tribes and finally insist that humans are in a desperate need to save themselves and a "savior" will NOT be coming to our rescue. We do NOT need messiah dreams, we need human care and compassion and "Allegiance To The Universe."
Agreed. My sense of both the near-term and longer-term future is well presented in my two 30-minute "Collapse In a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" videos at the top of this page: postdoom.com/resources/ ... as well as in these three short essays, 8-minute video clip, and 37-minute Radio Ecoshock interview: (1) "Overshoot: Where We Stand Now": (guest post I wrote for Dave Pollard's blog, "How to Save the World": howtosavetheworld.ca/2021/09/21/overshoot-where-we-stand-now-guest-post-by-michael-dowd/ (2) "Time's Up: It's the End of the World, and We Know It" - Salt Lake City Weekly cover article - by Jim Catano (features me and several colleagues): www.cityweekly.net/utah/times-up/Content?oid=17298723 (3) "Climate Change and the Mitigation Myth" - by Mark Brimblecombe: markbrimblecombeblog.wordpress.com/2021/01/18/climate-change-and-the-mitigation-myth/ VIDEO: Finally, this 8-min clip from HBO's "The Newsroom" (EPA Segments) is a classic (the most accurate portrayal on American TV of what most climate scientists know, but don't say): www.dropbox.com/s/orq3tops40gftzo/The%20Newsroom%20%202013%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency%20report%28EPA%29%3A%20Richard%20Westbrook%20scenes_1920x1080_MOV.mov?dl=0 RADIO ECOSHOCK INTERVIEW (37-min: 12-22-2021): www.ecoshock.org/2021/12/breakdown-post-doom-the-new-arctic.html (Scroll down to see info Alex Smith includes on my post-doom project.) WEEKLY "POST DOOM, NO GLOOM, VIA ZOOM" CALLS (Join us!): postdoom.com/discussions/
I started going to Asia and Thailand 50 years ago and spent the last 20 years not seeing Thailand except 10 yeaes ago just breifly...and what a huge difference to their Cities and beach towns...a mass pooulation moving in...traffic...noise...overbuilding of everything...over tourism...over consumerism...the pace of life now a bigger Rat Race than the West....and yet most people locals and fireigners cannot see the destruction they have caused and become a part of and the news claims the World is under populated. We have destroyed our Cities the last 50 yesrs.
I didn’t get that impression. I thought it was a wonderful and balanced conversation. I saw two men that admired and respected one another. And Richard is humble and very graceful for his age.
EARTHSEEDS are created and grow in our community (Parable Of The Sower, Octavia Butler), Who I am is - committed to the Possibility of Awakening (Buddha, Christ). Observe and love the natural world, detach from our political cultural weltanschaung, insanity Post Doom thriving. WASFortunate. Be Bodhisattva in this Bake!
Overpopulation isn’t necessarily the problem. Rather a capitalist system demanding constant growth in a finite world. And the self serving corruption it incites that results in everything from the planned obsolescence built into every manufactured thing, to the willful destruction of entire commodity crops just to pump up the market value. See Peter Joseph’s Zeitgeist Movement and Jacques Fresco’s Venus Project. Not to minimize the size of the task or even suggest it’s possibility but! All we need do is come together as a species, organize our activities and include nature in them.
You can’t feed 7-8 billion people without industrial agriculture. Industrial agriculture destroys the capacity of the planet to support life. So we are very much overpopulated
@William Oarlock There is NO mystery of the trinity. In many ancient cultures you had sky daddy, earth mother, and son savior. My guess is that the christian trinity is a continuation of the ancient Egyptian religion. Look it up. However, unique to christianity is the loss of sexual status of the god mother who became this holy spirit business. So mary is kind of a substitute for the god mother of all those trinity stories. There are no mysteries which define critical analysis. Whenever someone says it is a mystery, it really means a weapons grade bull shi*t.
Gentlemen, please hit the rewind button and listen to yourselves. So much emphasis on the earthly and so little on the divine. SMH God Bless you both. May you contemplate and be with God
The rewind button.Yes, it will tell you that many of us are in denial that we are denying the sacredness of the earth. This wonderful creation that is "Christ soaked." So much emphasis on the earthly? So little on the divine? When do we wake up and see how we are moving away from the care and nurturing of our created home? Our culture of consumption has led us to this so-called "post doom" idea. We are now past denial that the earth is the first word of God: as we treat the earth, we treat each other. How can there be a return of love to God with no acceptance of our ignorance.
Yes, the talk is exactly about that, accepting the brokenness of the soil, with a divine perspective. I believe it's what they refer to as Eco-theology.
Happywelldriller2, it is precisely the trivial, impotent, and limited/otherworldly notion of "the divine" that has landed us in this mess. Any god who merely transcends the universe (and is not present and speaking clearly through all forms of life) is ecocidal. An unlimited, infinite GOD is revealed, expressed, and present within the living biosphere. An unnatural and abstract "god" is profoundly different than an undeniable and living GOD.
@@scottlutz2311 I consider "worship the creator not creation" to be perhaps the single most self-destructive and ecocidal theological notion of all time. Eco-theism is the only way home for the prodigal species: ruclips.net/video/QdlnRXjZkhU/видео.html
Interesting stuff here, no doubt. Dowd's conversations with almost exclusively white, middle-class males who are now grieving for a dying world are at times engaging and even uplifting. But as a middle-aged person of colour whose ancestors were torn away from their homes to be enslaved I find these talks somewhat nauseating. Indigenous peoples and brown-skinned peoples of the world have been experiencing immeasurable loss and grief for centuries. Those peoples have endured centuries of deprivation and exploitation by the colonial- industrial machines and systems created by the 'white' world. Now, in discussions such as these, materially comfortable men sit around lamenting the dying of the light. We, by contrast, can only celebrate the destruction of what will surely be the final 'great' imperial project of these such homo sapiens.
All varieties of people have been "experiencing immeasurable loss and grief for centuries." And the biosphere is a cesspool of suffering based on murder-to-survive; ever watched a lion eat, or found a starved to death animal? It will be a great day if the sun destroys the Earth completely, along with all biological life.
@@danwood3000 True about nature being red in tooth and claw, but humans cause suffering knowingly and too often merely for pleasure. Game-hunting being merely one example. But I agree, the rest of the planet would not miss our extinction.
I feel I understand you, and would probably feel the same if I wasn’t of white European ancestry. I really appreciate these talks, yet I get how nauseating some of what they're saying is from your perspective, like finding the holy in a slaughterhouse. A person (standing in for “white civilization”) bombs a place, unwittingly or not (and there is some of both), and then he feels bad and finds the silver lining in that too, meanwhile the victims are all just dead. I consider how the sins of the ancestors rain down on their sons -- that's me, that's my legacy too. And I consider, what can I say to a young person who asks me in the recent future, why I didn't work harder to stop this train. I have nothing to say that won't sound like a weak excuse. At the same time I don’t think that’s the end of the story.
@@markcounseling Thank you very much for your thoughtful, considered reply. I'd like to be clear that my, perhaps for some a little churlish, comment wasn't meant as any kind of condemnation of white people. Nor do I ask for or expect any form of mea culpa on the part of white people in general. I happen to have two mothers (foster and natural) who are white, a natural father who isn't, and half siblings of many different hues. Almost all my close friends are white, my step-children are white and all of my ex partners have been wonderful white women. I myself feel I straddle both cultures and understand their separate perspectives. My complaint, if such it was, had more to do with what I regard as the somewhat complacent resignation expressed by many of the predominantly white participants in the Post Doom series. They will in all likelihood and for the remainder of their lives be at least partly insulated from the worst effects of the disasters that I have no doubt will be coming down the pike. Once again it will be the brown-skinned people of the earth who will suffer the most as our civilization and our climate become increasingly chaotic and dangerous. So, for me, these mild-mannered deliberations as to how best to negotiate the coming collapse and achieve 'acceptance' of it are a tad insulting. The questions WE in the west should be addressing are, first, how best we can support the developing countries to mitigate and adapt to climate catastrophe, and second what is it - in terms of material comforts - that we SHOULD be prepared to forego in order to achieve that goal. Those kinds of discussions and actions should now be our primary focus given that we in the west are overwhelmingly responsible for having set this ghastly, destructive global growth-driven capitalist system in motion and for the historical, immense, unjust exploitation of other nations and their resources.
@@Lyra0966 Thanks for your kind note. Again I feel sympathy with what you've said. I see these (white) folks as doing the best they can to understand and offer what help they can in this coming situation. They're trying to "accept" or otherwise deal with the scope and awfulness of the problem, which is quite difficult, even from a safe seat. They're looking for ways to be productive and to help others move from panic or anger to some sort of stable base that would engender sustained positive action. I suspect they will be generous, dependable people throughout, and I'm not sure there is more that can be asked of them. Or is there? I may be wrong. While you're right, "we" as over-fueled Americans bear greater responsibility for this catastrophe, I suspect we won't find a "we" to do anything, collectively, for those people around the world who will be most affected. There's just no way to get enough people on the same page it seems, to save themselves, let alone anyone else. But there is, and will be, countless opportunities, I think, for us as individuals to discern where we might have the greatest impact with the remaining years that we have. In order that we can respect ourselves, if nothing else. Some of us might be skilled or lucky enough that we start movements that catch on and motivate huge numbers of people to work together for everyone's benefit. I pray for that but don't expect it.
Seeing 2 clergy I can't resist making a Bible comment. Jesus supposedly drowned 2,000 pigs indirectly (Matt 8: 28-34, Mark 5: 1-20, Luke 8: 26-39). If I had a time machine and could swap places with Pilate, I'd drown Jesus instead of crucify him (sick joke). But since some of the Bible is fiction, maybe Jesus actually was perfectly benevolent, and I'd release him. How does Jesus who supposedly created suffering (of the pigs) reverse The Fall (of Adam and Eve) that brought suffering into existence? And why does Jesus preach love and forgiveness, but trade insults with the Jewish leadership and incite them to hatred and murder inside of rehabilitating/reforming them? That's called "hypocritical." Perhaps Jesus was better than what the New Testament says about him. I respect Jesus, but not the cobbled together mess known as the Bible.
I don’t think environment is the main message here just an intrigal way to look at the reality of living in this time and place and what we are to be about. What is the meaning of one’s existence? That’s what I got out of it.
The text does not say that Jesus drowned the pigs. The spirits possessing the demoniac asked to enter the pigs and "the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea." How to explain that: self sacrifice, perhaps? However, the thing I find interesting about the two ministers on this podcast is that they have deconstructed a literal translation of the text. All religions are evolving and we who are practicing these religions are responsible to evolve the texts.
Modernity has tried that. While it has its dignity, it also has its disasters! For one, it disenchanted the world. As we consider radical adaptation to a post doom context, I believe we will have to re-enchant the world.
@@brianbachinger6357 Mainstream Christianity is a deity sausage fest. I prefer pantheistic Hinduism with a female savior, Sri, although I don't believe any religion is absolute Truth; they all have flaws. Strange that "objectivity" seems important to you, and yet you don't present any objective evidence for your claims. Sri, Vishnu, and paramatman embody love as well as the Christian Trinity, if not better. But human minds probably can't handle absolute Truth.
Hardly! As the following sermon and follow-up program both testify, ecology is the heart of my theology! 20-min homily: ruclips.net/video/WUfIkArglJo/видео.html and 80-min longer program: ruclips.net/video/QdlnRXjZkhU/видео.html
So, a little new to all this, and you can blame it on my dual thinking or my ego or my privilege of place of birth, but you all don't leave much hope for those of us who have to continue to raise the next generation. I just finished 'universal Christ', and the tone of this interview /conversion does not seem to line up. I'm all in on the universal /universality of Christ in ask things.... that the RC church has been poor at transmitting the faith in any way other than fear /dualistic paradigm... that we've not been the best stewards of the environment... (better than we used to be, but to little too late you say?) ....that there is a lot of violence world wide, but historically speaking is it any more than any other age? (or because of the nature of instant communications we have it on our house every night it seems worse?.). . So, although I'm sure I'm doing it poorly, and you can just write me off as still being in denial if you want, as a mom, a little more than "we are facing world wide cataclysmic destruction in the imminent future, make sure your soul is in order and maybe you'll be in one of the lucky pockets that happens to survive ", is not very helpful. You may have the luxury of knowing you have an intellectual legacy to leave behind, but I don't. I have living breathing children that I can't raise in a state of fear... Do not be afraid, 365 times... In a world of no tangible hope... It does seem a little contrary to the message of a good and loving God that is bigger than the universe, a little touch of, well, life in some forms will survive, and those who survive are the fortunate, we just have to make sure that those who do are of 'our' thinking.... Is that really and different fundamentally than one group /tribe saying, 'no we are the saved ones'....? I don't know. I hear much of what you are saying, have connected to what Richard has said and wrote in the past and w just finals feelings like I want completely alone in my faith. And to hear that he's "grown out" of his optimism is a little disappointing.
I really wish that MD had taken a moment to respond to this reasonable/fearful critique. I appreciated the entire piece - have been a listener/reader of Fr Rohr for a long time (didn't know Michael Dowd before this). And REALLY appreciate that MD has taken the time to reply to comments. Hopefully he'll correct that with your post...
Maybe you've resolved this in your heart by now. I hope so. Dowd does speak in some of his episodes about finding joy instead of dread when he became a grandfather. I don't want to convey fear to my own grandchildren, but I do try to instill into them the expectation that the world is changing and to be ready for new things and resilient if the changes are difficult. The truth is, none of us knows how this will roll out.
Yea, I think I know what you mean. Also see here: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html and here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
@@chadreilly You asked no question, Chad, so my links are hardly "answers", fake or not. They are, however, my most recent videos along the lines of (some of) what Richard Rohr and I were discussing. I'm curious... do you find this video: ruclips.net/video/DEDvM8Agmw4/видео.html or this playlist to be less of a "fake answer"? ruclips.net/p/PLcAlqMeyeaW9jp15vd-8nfmhf6Ka_jDug
@@thegreatstory I recollect this Rohr video as your answer to a question, or comment I made on another of your vids. And while that was weeks ago and don't recall the details, I'm on to the game. If I know myself you probably misquoted or cherry picked the bible
@@chadreilly I've read the Bible three times cover to cover. You? What about God's evidential revelation? Ignoring evidence as modern-day scripture betrays both God the Father and Christ. Here's my essay, "Christ as the Future Incarnate" that I wrote for Richard Rohr's ONEING journal: thegreatstory.org/future-as-judge-and-guide.pdf Feel free to criticize it, too (after all, you're on a run :-) Advent blessings, Chad... sincerely!
What a wonderful conversation between two great minds and kindred spirits if I can dare call you both. Thank you very much.I enjoyed every bit of this. God bless. Keep we’re. Fr.Richard the world needs you.
Thank YOU, Celine! What a delightful Christmas eve gift!! 🙂
Gratitude for your honesty and wisdom
You are so welcome
"I see doom as the midpoint between denial and regeneration."
I envy you as I seem to be stuck in doom. Praying that Richard Rohr, who I find myself loving, can help me out. My best to you and thanks for the inspiration.
@@catem3102 You'll have to go within, that is, meditate. There is a sun of joy in there, though you'd hardly believe it. I sympathize with you that you don't believe it's possible -- and even, that, perhaps, it would be immoral to find a private campfire to warm you as the world falls into chaos. But I tell you: your efforts will be multiplied in that world you love, if you connect to Power.
This message is Real. I only deliver it.
I do believe it's possible, just not for me. But I was just listening to another interview where Fr Richard admitted 'The Empire' was absurd and that if we couldn't somehow reconcile with that absurdity we'd go mad. That's where I am. But my task is to love all of creation, even if that means The Empire/Machine too. It's going to be hard to reconcile with reality, but it's what there is. Ouch. Thank you for,your response and I will practice contemplation and meditation.
@@CM-ur5rp I totally get that. Maybe this can help: imagine you are in a spaceship viewing the planet. You have no real worries, you just look at the humans and see what they do. You'll see the absurdity, and you'll just laugh about it. You'll see a few people avoiding the absurdity, and probably feel some respect for them. You won't be miserable or upset. Because you know there is a wider world. Your home planet is super cool, for example, and not absurd.
You too, have a home planet. Strangely enough, it's found within. If you see absurdity, so does God. Trust in Him and keep your eyes on Him, rather than wasting time making plans and schemes to fix the absurdity.
Anyhow, that's what I'm tryin'! I have spent plenty of wasted hours worrying :).
Excellent, Nehemiah!
Richard is a wonderful listener.
Indeed! I aspire to be more like him, I assure you! :-)
thegreatstory I discovered Richard months before covid with the Universal Christ. During covid he has inspired me to find my true self. That's why I'm using my gifts and built a team of volunteers to Gvbck.org. 🍻 Here's to falling upwards!!
Thank you mr. Couch for your kind response to my two comments. I was delighted that you replied. I am an 80 year old lady living in Ottawa, Canada. I am of Indian decent( Bombay ,India) I am an ardent follower of dear Richard and watch all his speeches and podcasts and have read many of his books. I found your conversation with Fr.Richard very fascinating and enlightening. I thang God for people like you and Richard. merry Christmas to you and your family. God bless you.
Celine Ghiara.
Thanks, Celine!
yes, I put my faith and receive hope from the evolutionary promise of cataclysm leading to emergence! The hope is that humanity will rediscover our humility with our place in this reality. Lets get over ourselves and embrace the gift of vulnerable existence. So lovely to meet Richard Rohr through your work here. Thank you.
Yes. Carol, I've found comfort embracing the ongoing cycle of birth, death and resurrection. Even our breath is in, pause, out.
Thank you once again for the wonderful conversation between two great minds. I am so enlightened and enriched listing to you both. Fr. Richard keep well. Sending you positive and healing thoughts.
Thank you, dear one! Christmas and New Year blessings to you!
I've just started working my way through these videos - first with Holmgren - and now this. Thank you so much for making and sharing these, this is exactly what we need as we face our future: not only practical resilience, but also an absolute kind of hope.
Really, a "hope beyond hope" -- and a radical trust and fierce devotion to Life as divine, and each day as a priceless gift of grace!
I came here for Holmgren too, and am now working my way through all the episodes. Thank you Michael and Connie for your time and energy. I count myself very lucky to be now cognizant of our current predicament. Still early stages of grief for me. It is hard.
Would really really love to hear another interview with David Holmgren especially. I feel he might have some valuable insights since the recording in late 2019. I know it would mean the world to many Permies around the planet.
Again, thank you both.
As an atheist, & as a critic of the extremes of white evangelism as preached by some rabble rousing con artists, I am nevertheless glad that I stumbled upon this series with its side door to ecotheism resource writings et al.
Thanks, Mike!
What a wonderful and meaningful conversation by two wise men.
Thank you!
Dominion at some point became repackaged as Progress.
Thank you for the riveting conversation. Though I'm not a Christian, I feel as a kindred spirit to both of these men. At one point I wept.
The environmental situation is far bigger than what the mindset of humanity can do to seriously mitigate, though we are morally bound to try. Yet overpopulation proceeds at breakneck speed.
Personally, I have no hope. There may turn out to be survivors, but for the evolution of life to eventually heal to restore a future biodiversity.. this magnificent jewel of a planet will be better off if none of us are around.
Thanks! Yes, I live hope-free myself.
Thank you for posting.
Reality can be a strong cup of tea.
As an evangelical Christian iam appalled by our denominations enabling trump as their. Chosen. One. God forgive and help us all
I just don't understand it. How can you look at the face of Jesus and then equate that to Donald Trump. Christianity has been hijacked by evil and hatred. It's heartbreaking.
I respect the Amish for having the courage to live their truth and say, "No" to modern technology beyond what they can all agree to be valuable. Do I think they are perfect? No. Neither are they monolithic as a group. Some are very conservative. Others split off to form their own groups if they are wanting to allow more modernity into their lives. Mennonites being the most liberal.
Very insightful even though I find it terrifying.. I entered in the stage of grief when Trump won.. I've lost faith in so many areas. Thank you for letting us know there are still wise people.
Thanks for your heartful vulnerability, Claudia. Please do make time for the others in this series. I promise, you'll be glad you did! www.postdoom.com/
Claudia Scott I, too, have lost faith in many areas with the turns that have become so evident in our political system. I see the downfall so clearly rushing toward us. I have a sense of inevitability that our speakers refer. I just thought of the words to the song from Mad Max...”we don’t need another hero. We need to know the way home.”
Claudia, you were among many, take heart! Let's keep praying for the earth, for truth & the good, & plant trees, regenerate soil, soul & habitat for all beings & give to conservation groups--they need it...& let's get out the vote best we pissibly can.
Check out the video called “Tree Sisters” . it’s one of the sessions on “Buddha at the gas station” on you tube. Really really brought me to want to be part of the solution in whatever way I am able.
Glad I came across this interview!
Thanks, Diane. If you've not already seen it, my latest two-part video series, "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" has garnered 125,000 views in 12 days (a first for me): ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Please join us, if you're so led: postdoom.com/discussions/ I also recommend the "post-doom" conversations and resources found here: postdoom.com
I believe you are guided by divine wisdom.
I have just witnessed how powerful the ego is.
The overarching background buzz of this spiritual awakening has been “power”.
Undefined power!
God is the energy of the universe!
We need to surrender totally to God’s energy in order to become one with the divine!
The ego is the negative polarity that repels us from God!
If you have time to talk let me know
Thanks
Doug
really love this - your showing and providing the times from what you want to hear made me listen to the whole thing... i'm just ripped open and vulnerable to the wolves, can't afford to go to Albuquerque, resentful of technology, and no career. I love the 'doomful' honesty of this, will look into you as RR has been my Christian eyelid peeling eye opening guru, and what you say is comforting to the soul, as this video has been to me. THANK YA
Thank YOU, Michael!! Do take time to see or listen to the others in this series: www.postdoom.com/
12:10 - I think so many are hesitant to adopt a mindset that requires you to let go of everything you’ve enjoyed and known your whole life because even when you show them a smoking gun on climate change , our conspiracy theory world has them afraid it will eventually be proven a scam. After all, what they’re being asked to except is no small pill.
Agreed. Have you seen my latest video? (73,000 views in 9 days): "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament": ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html
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I didn't hear it in this post, but if 2/3 of our world is basically starving daily, then we have to respond, if we have any resources at all. And we have to boldly transmit the message to respond with urgency, because no doubt many that hear us are already getting, but perhaps not responding. The average American a smidgen above poverty should probably be able to go a little below and help ten people in the process. Some of them will prosper themselves after being given a better chance and help ten more. With a global population below 10^10 we are guilty of not believing, very guilty.
david marilley A
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Thanks
It's not the language describing reality, it's reality shrunk into words. Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus, but most don't need a "Virgin birth" as patriarchal proof of male divinity, especially if you STOP apprising divinity in a "sexual" manner or even being a "being" - like an Asian idea of "non-being." "This whole planet is the promised land, for every child woman and man. The best Post Doom idealism would erase all the ancient rites and religions that separate humans into divided tribes and finally insist that humans are in a desperate need to save themselves and a "savior" will NOT be coming to our rescue. We do NOT need messiah dreams, we need human care and compassion and "Allegiance To The Universe."
Agreed. My sense of both the near-term and longer-term future is well presented in my two 30-minute "Collapse In a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" videos at the top of this page: postdoom.com/resources/ ... as well as in these three short essays, 8-minute video clip, and 37-minute Radio Ecoshock interview:
(1) "Overshoot: Where We Stand Now": (guest post I wrote for Dave Pollard's blog, "How to Save the World": howtosavetheworld.ca/2021/09/21/overshoot-where-we-stand-now-guest-post-by-michael-dowd/
(2) "Time's Up: It's the End of the World, and We Know It" - Salt Lake City Weekly cover article - by Jim Catano (features me and several colleagues): www.cityweekly.net/utah/times-up/Content?oid=17298723
(3) "Climate Change and the Mitigation Myth" - by Mark Brimblecombe: markbrimblecombeblog.wordpress.com/2021/01/18/climate-change-and-the-mitigation-myth/
VIDEO: Finally, this 8-min clip from HBO's "The Newsroom" (EPA Segments) is a classic (the most accurate portrayal on American TV of what most climate scientists know, but don't say): www.dropbox.com/s/orq3tops40gftzo/The%20Newsroom%20%202013%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency%20report%28EPA%29%3A%20Richard%20Westbrook%20scenes_1920x1080_MOV.mov?dl=0
RADIO ECOSHOCK INTERVIEW (37-min: 12-22-2021): www.ecoshock.org/2021/12/breakdown-post-doom-the-new-arctic.html (Scroll down to see info Alex Smith includes on my post-doom project.)
WEEKLY "POST DOOM, NO GLOOM, VIA ZOOM" CALLS (Join us!): postdoom.com/discussions/
Ecosphere still relates to the world of form. The word needs to point outside of it.
Where there’s a will, there will be a way. If god is for us, who or what could be against us.
Amen...(I think). See here: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html and then here: postdoom.com/discussions/
Who can possibly be against 'us'? That other party to whom God is for them is who.
I started going to Asia and Thailand 50 years ago and spent the last 20 years not seeing Thailand except 10 yeaes ago just breifly...and what a huge difference to their Cities and beach towns...a mass pooulation moving in...traffic...noise...overbuilding of everything...over tourism...over consumerism...the pace of life now a bigger Rat Race than the West....and yet most people locals and fireigners cannot see the destruction they have caused and become a part of and the news claims the World is under populated. We have destroyed our Cities the last 50 yesrs.
Sorry I spelt your name wrong mr. Doud. It was a mistake. My eyesight fails me at times
Not a problem.
This was too full of Dowd and too little Richard Rohr. Such a revelation of pride and humility.
Thanks for having the courage to say it straight, Sue. I agree. ~ Michael
I didn’t get that impression. I thought it was a wonderful and balanced conversation. I saw two men that admired and respected one another. And Richard is humble and very graceful for his age.
@@newdawnrising8110 Thanks!
Hell no. They complement each other enormously.
How can we Love every human AND, Acknowledge human overpopulation?
EARTHSEEDS are created and grow in our community (Parable Of The Sower, Octavia Butler), Who I am is - committed to the Possibility of Awakening (Buddha, Christ).
Observe and love the natural world, detach from our political cultural weltanschaung, insanity
Post Doom thriving. WASFortunate. Be Bodhisattva in this Bake!
Overpopulation isn’t necessarily the problem.
Rather a capitalist system demanding constant growth in a finite world.
And the self serving corruption it incites that results in everything from the planned obsolescence built into every manufactured thing, to the willful destruction of entire commodity crops just to pump up the market value.
See Peter Joseph’s Zeitgeist Movement and Jacques Fresco’s Venus Project.
Not to minimize the size of the task or even suggest it’s possibility but! All we need do is come together as a species, organize our activities and include nature in them.
You can’t feed 7-8 billion people without industrial agriculture. Industrial agriculture destroys the capacity of the planet to support life. So we are very much overpopulated
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God has no religion---Mahatma Ghandi
Cooky? What about those people who believe in three (3) Gods, whom they call one (1) God, despite any logical understanding. That is so cooky.
@William Oarlock There is NO mystery of the trinity. In many ancient cultures you had sky daddy, earth mother, and son savior. My guess is that the christian trinity is a continuation of the ancient Egyptian religion. Look it up. However, unique to christianity is the loss of sexual status of the god mother who became this holy spirit business. So mary is kind of a substitute for the god mother of all those trinity stories. There are no mysteries which define critical analysis. Whenever someone says it is a mystery, it really means a weapons grade bull shi*t.
Gentlemen, please hit the rewind button and listen to yourselves.
So much emphasis on the earthly and so little on the divine. SMH
God Bless you both. May you contemplate and be with God
The rewind button.Yes, it will tell you that many of us are in denial that we are denying the sacredness of the earth. This wonderful creation that is "Christ soaked." So much emphasis on the earthly? So little on the divine? When do we wake up and see how we are moving away from the care and nurturing of our created home? Our culture of consumption has led us to this so-called "post doom" idea. We are now past denial that the earth is the first word of God: as we treat the earth, we treat each other. How can there be a return of love to God with no acceptance of our ignorance.
Yes, the talk is exactly about that, accepting the brokenness of the soil, with a divine perspective. I believe it's what they refer to as Eco-theology.
Happywelldriller2, it is precisely the trivial, impotent, and limited/otherworldly notion of "the divine" that has landed us in this mess. Any god who merely transcends the universe (and is not present and speaking clearly through all forms of life) is ecocidal. An unlimited, infinite GOD is revealed, expressed, and present within the living biosphere. An unnatural and abstract "god" is profoundly different than an undeniable and living GOD.
@@scottlutz2311 I consider "worship the creator not creation" to be perhaps the single most self-destructive and ecocidal theological notion of all time. Eco-theism is the only way home for the prodigal species: ruclips.net/video/QdlnRXjZkhU/видео.html
Hope has to be grounded in something tangible, or else it is just wishful thinking.
To my mind, now is not a time for hope, it's a time for courage.
Unbelievably prophetic
Interesting stuff here, no doubt. Dowd's conversations with almost exclusively white, middle-class males who are now grieving for a dying world are at times engaging and even uplifting. But as a middle-aged person of colour whose ancestors were torn away from their homes to be enslaved I find these talks somewhat nauseating. Indigenous peoples and brown-skinned peoples of the world have been experiencing immeasurable loss and grief for centuries. Those peoples have endured centuries of deprivation and exploitation by the colonial- industrial machines and systems created by the 'white' world. Now, in discussions such as these, materially comfortable men sit around lamenting the dying of the light. We, by contrast, can only celebrate the destruction of what will surely be the final 'great' imperial project of these such homo sapiens.
All varieties of people have been "experiencing immeasurable loss and grief for centuries." And the biosphere is a cesspool of suffering based on murder-to-survive; ever watched a lion eat, or found a starved to death animal? It will be a great day if the sun destroys the Earth completely, along with all biological life.
@@danwood3000 True about nature being red in tooth and claw, but humans cause suffering knowingly and too often merely for pleasure. Game-hunting being merely one example. But I agree, the rest of the planet would not miss our extinction.
I feel I understand you, and would probably feel the same if I wasn’t of white European ancestry. I really appreciate these talks, yet I get how nauseating some of what they're saying is from your perspective, like finding the holy in a slaughterhouse. A person (standing in for “white civilization”) bombs a place, unwittingly or not (and there is some of both), and then he feels bad and finds the silver lining in that too, meanwhile the victims are all just dead.
I consider how the sins of the ancestors rain down on their sons -- that's me, that's my legacy too. And I consider, what can I say to a young person who asks me in the recent future, why I didn't work harder to stop this train. I have nothing to say that won't sound like a weak excuse. At the same time I don’t think that’s the end of the story.
@@markcounseling Thank you very much for your thoughtful, considered reply. I'd like to be clear that my, perhaps for some a little churlish, comment wasn't meant as any kind of condemnation of white people. Nor do I ask for or expect any form of mea culpa on the part of white people in general. I happen to have two mothers (foster and natural) who are white, a natural father who isn't, and half siblings of many different hues. Almost all my close friends are white, my step-children are white and all of my ex partners have been wonderful white women. I myself feel I straddle both cultures and understand their separate perspectives.
My complaint, if such it was, had more to do with what I regard as the somewhat complacent resignation expressed by many of the predominantly white participants in the Post Doom series. They will in all likelihood and for the remainder of their lives be at least partly insulated from the worst effects of the disasters that I have no doubt will be coming down the pike. Once again it will be the brown-skinned people of the earth who will suffer the most as our civilization and our climate become increasingly chaotic and dangerous. So, for me, these mild-mannered deliberations as to how best to negotiate the coming collapse and achieve 'acceptance' of it are a tad insulting. The questions WE in the west should be addressing are, first, how best we can support the developing countries to mitigate and adapt to climate catastrophe, and second what is it - in terms of material comforts - that we SHOULD be prepared to forego in order to achieve that goal. Those kinds of discussions and actions should now be our primary focus given that we in the west are overwhelmingly responsible for having set this ghastly, destructive global growth-driven capitalist system in motion and for the historical, immense, unjust exploitation of other nations and their resources.
@@Lyra0966 Thanks for your kind note. Again I feel sympathy with what you've said. I see these (white) folks as doing the best they can to understand and offer what help they can in this coming situation. They're trying to "accept" or otherwise deal with the scope and awfulness of the problem, which is quite difficult, even from a safe seat. They're looking for ways to be productive and to help others move from panic or anger to some sort of stable base that would engender sustained positive action. I suspect they will be generous, dependable people throughout, and I'm not sure there is more that can be asked of them. Or is there? I may be wrong.
While you're right, "we" as over-fueled Americans bear greater responsibility for this catastrophe, I suspect we won't find a "we" to do anything, collectively, for those people around the world who will be most affected. There's just no way to get enough people on the same page it seems, to save themselves, let alone anyone else.
But there is, and will be, countless opportunities, I think, for us as individuals to discern where we might have the greatest impact with the remaining years that we have. In order that we can respect ourselves, if nothing else.
Some of us might be skilled or lucky enough that we start movements that catch on and motivate huge numbers of people to work together for everyone's benefit. I pray for that but don't expect it.
Seeing 2 clergy I can't resist making a Bible comment. Jesus supposedly drowned 2,000 pigs indirectly (Matt 8: 28-34, Mark 5: 1-20, Luke 8: 26-39). If I had a time machine and could swap places with Pilate, I'd drown Jesus instead of crucify him (sick joke). But since some of the Bible is fiction, maybe Jesus actually was perfectly benevolent, and I'd release him.
How does Jesus who supposedly created suffering (of the pigs) reverse The Fall (of Adam and Eve) that brought suffering into existence?
And why does Jesus preach love and forgiveness, but trade insults with the Jewish leadership and incite them to hatred and murder inside of rehabilitating/reforming them? That's called "hypocritical."
Perhaps Jesus was better than what the New Testament says about him. I respect Jesus, but not the cobbled together mess known as the Bible.
I don’t think environment is the main message here just an intrigal way to look at the reality of living in this time and place and what we are to be about. What is the meaning of one’s existence? That’s what I got out of it.
The text does not say that Jesus drowned the pigs. The spirits possessing the demoniac asked to enter the pigs and "the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea." How to explain that: self sacrifice, perhaps?
However, the thing I find interesting about the two ministers on this podcast is that they have deconstructed a literal translation of the text. All religions are evolving and we who are practicing these religions are responsible to evolve the texts.
@@aletashepler1457 Why not discard religions and build a new philosophy from scratch?
Modernity has tried that. While it has its dignity, it also has its disasters! For one, it disenchanted the world. As we consider radical adaptation to a post doom context, I believe we will have to re-enchant the world.
@@brianbachinger6357 Mainstream Christianity is a deity sausage fest. I prefer pantheistic Hinduism with a female savior, Sri, although I don't believe any religion is absolute Truth; they all have flaws. Strange that "objectivity" seems important to you, and yet you don't present any objective evidence for your claims. Sri, Vishnu, and paramatman embody love as well as the Christian Trinity, if not better. But human minds probably can't handle absolute Truth.
I wonder if maybe the host is demoralised by a false self of ecology.
Hardly! As the following sermon and follow-up program both testify, ecology is the heart of my theology! 20-min homily: ruclips.net/video/WUfIkArglJo/видео.html and 80-min longer program: ruclips.net/video/QdlnRXjZkhU/видео.html
So, a little new to all this, and you can blame it on my dual thinking or my ego or my privilege of place of birth, but you all don't leave much hope for those of us who have to continue to raise the next generation. I just finished 'universal Christ', and the tone of this interview /conversion does not seem to line up. I'm all in on the universal /universality of Christ in ask things.... that the RC church has been poor at transmitting the faith in any way other than fear /dualistic paradigm... that we've not been the best stewards of the environment... (better than we used to be, but to little too late you say?) ....that there is a lot of violence world wide, but historically speaking is it any more than any other age? (or because of the nature of instant communications we have it on our house every night it seems worse?.). . So, although I'm sure I'm doing it poorly, and you can just write me off as still being in denial if you want, as a mom, a little more than "we are facing world wide cataclysmic destruction in the imminent future, make sure your soul is in order and maybe you'll be in one of the lucky pockets that happens to survive ", is not very helpful. You may have the luxury of knowing you have an intellectual legacy to leave behind, but I don't. I have living breathing children that I can't raise in a state of fear... Do not be afraid, 365 times... In a world of no tangible hope... It does seem a little contrary to the message of a good and loving God that is bigger than the universe, a little touch of, well, life in some forms will survive, and those who survive are the fortunate, we just have to make sure that those who do are of 'our' thinking.... Is that really and different fundamentally than one group /tribe saying, 'no we are the saved ones'....? I don't know. I hear much of what you are saying, have connected to what Richard has said and wrote in the past and w just finals feelings like I want completely alone in my faith. And to hear that he's "grown out" of his optimism is a little disappointing.
I really wish that MD had taken a moment to respond to this reasonable/fearful critique. I appreciated the entire piece - have been a listener/reader of Fr Rohr for a long time (didn't know Michael Dowd before this). And REALLY appreciate that MD has taken the time to reply to comments. Hopefully he'll correct that with your post...
Maybe you've resolved this in your heart by now. I hope so. Dowd does speak in some of his episodes about finding joy instead of dread when he became a grandfather.
I don't want to convey fear to my own grandchildren, but I do try to instill into them the expectation that the world is changing and to be ready for new things and resilient if the changes are difficult.
The truth is, none of us knows how this will roll out.
It's not the doom that my ego finds off-putting, it's the cafeteria Christianity, lol
Yea, I think I know what you mean. Also see here: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html and here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
@@thegreatstory I think links are fake answers
@@chadreilly You asked no question, Chad, so my links are hardly "answers", fake or not. They are, however, my most recent videos along the lines of (some of) what Richard Rohr and I were discussing. I'm curious... do you find this video: ruclips.net/video/DEDvM8Agmw4/видео.html or this playlist to be less of a "fake answer"? ruclips.net/p/PLcAlqMeyeaW9jp15vd-8nfmhf6Ka_jDug
@@thegreatstory I recollect this Rohr video as your answer to a question, or comment I made on another of your vids. And while that was weeks ago and don't recall the details, I'm on to the game. If I know myself you probably misquoted or cherry picked the bible
@@chadreilly I've read the Bible three times cover to cover. You? What about God's evidential revelation? Ignoring evidence as modern-day scripture betrays both God the Father and Christ. Here's my essay, "Christ as the Future Incarnate" that I wrote for Richard Rohr's ONEING journal: thegreatstory.org/future-as-judge-and-guide.pdf Feel free to criticize it, too (after all, you're on a run :-) Advent blessings, Chad... sincerely!