something you said in passing helped me more than your actual explanation... that the beats aren't all equal emphasis. so it's ONE two three four ONE two... vs. ONE two ONE two... if that's the case, then I now understand the difference in rhythm.
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Great explanation. I wish someone had been around who explained things this clearly back when I finally realised the importance of understanding what I was playing. I played in a full-time rock band back in the '70s that did cover tunes. We only played one original tune and, all being self-taught and unable to read/write music, just played what felt natural to us. We had no idea there was anything different about it until the first time we played it on-stage in a bar and it cleared the dance-floor. At the end of the set we took a guitar back to the dressing room and figured out what the problem was; it was in 11/4. That was the night I decided that learning how to read music and some theory was probably a good idea. (I still have no idea why something in 11/4 felt so natural. The fact we never counted it out and none of us could dance probably had something to do with it.)
11/4;1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2 or 11/4;1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3 Frank Zappa composed a 13/4;1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3 Tapping the foot on the ONE while clapping out the full count gives us the "groove" or "feel" from which we can flow with the time signature.
As a beginning guitar player, I really appreciated this video as it made a lot of sense to me. However, I was still having some trouble distinguishing between 2/2 and 4/4 until just now, when I started learning to play "Angels Fall" by Winterpills, and realized I was counting it as "ONE and TWO and ONE and TWO..." ...and then it clicked for real. Counting "One-two-three-four" seemed unnecessarily fast and impatient for a hazy, melancholy kind of song like that. Thank you sir!
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Great video!!! I'm already in Music theory 3 and still didn't understand the difference between 4/4 and 2/2 thanks for this great explanation! Looking forward to watching more of your videos!
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The algorithm brought me here. My background is Death Metal and a band called Nile famously uses 2/2 for a lot of their music. They are playing 16th notes over 230bpm very often and they pulse at half the beat for the precise reasons discussed here. You can’t really maintain a beat at 260bpm for 5 minutes, but 130? This might be possible, even if you are playing 32nd notes. Good video.
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I love Nile. Technically speaking, 2/2 is the same as 4/4 in half time. Normally I would disregard any value below 60 or above 240, because you can just double or half it to make it a more intuitive bpm. With Nile though, because it's at such high speeds, I think it's useful to think of it as 2/2, so you can see all the nuances in their playing, while keeping it readable within each measure. It's all subjective though
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This is easily the clearest and simplest explanation of this I've seen. Maths is one thing, but the *feel* of the music something else. This helped so incredibly much, thank you!
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This is literally the best explanation of the difference between 2/2 and 4/4 I've heard. It has always been something that has confused me, and this makes it very clear. Thank you! As always, love your content, Gareth!
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One of the biggest differences between 2/2 and 4/4 is when you add drums. In 2/2 it tends to be just bass on 1 and snare on 2, while 4/4 has bass on one and snare on 3, with hi-hat on 1,2,3,4 - totally different feel.
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Divisions makes a very big difference when you dance. If I have to move to f.i. 5/4 I divide the feel to my feet 1-2-1-2-1. You clearly feel the differences of signatures when you move FWIW. Great video, will be checking more of them ;-)
Cut time is really useful when writing for funk too eg a high energy rhythm section with melodic horns. BTW I saw a recommendation for your channel on reddit, someone who is a (former?) Berklee tutor apparently, so here I am! I haven't watched that much yet, but from what I've seen so far it's very clear and well explained info 👍Great stuff, thanks.
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Claiming that a 4/4 has a heavy downbeat goes against what you would find in a rock song where the heavy beats typically are on two and four, also called the backbeat. In reggae you’ll even find examples that only has a heavy third beat in 4/4. But great video new sub here!
Gareth, knowing how to interpret and execute a piece rhythmically is considered just as, or at times, more important than the melodic and/or harmonic interpretation. Unfortunately, all too many playing music fall short on this. Thanks for being there. One can only hope your message gets across😉
"Unfortunately, all too many playing music fall short on this" this a 100%. that's why I'm here, as a humble guitar player knowing he sucks at these things. I hope that with a little more understanding I'll get better at this.
@@hahahadracula 👍 well, you’ve got the right idea !we’re all in this together and learning is lifelong.. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I was on a high horse or anything for anybody that might be concerned about that, but I do feel where you coming from. I’m happy that I know a little bit more than the average ground pounder, but I’m always humble enough to be continually seeking betterment of self. Even when I know the content, I’ll check it out anyway, in case there’s some little tidbit that I could pick up that I may not have realized before.
@@shipsahoy1793 I have a background in Physics and chemistry. There is so much to know that no one can learn it all (unless you are gifted). I see music the same way. Just need to know what the basics are, and music has a lot of basics.
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With each new composition student I have I discuss this issue, and still no one seems to understand it! I wonder what should I do or say to make them feel the difference. Thank you so much.
@@MusicMattersGB The next time I go through it again, I'll show them your (this) video. its the easiest and simplest way to explain it. Thank you much.
I think the hardest part of teaching this is pop rock and metal music in common practice of the last 70 years has been considered 4/4 whether or not it has the 4/4 feel.
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This is a wonderfully concise and informative video. I’m glad you mostly avoided talking about ‘common time’. There is a popular misconception that the ‘C’ is an abbreviation of ‘common’ but in fact it goes back to the ‘mensural notation’ of the late Middle Ages. Music in 3/4 was represented by a circle and was considered ‘perfect’ or ‘complete’. Music in duple or quadruple time was considered ‘imperfect’ or ‘incomplete’ and was represented by an incomplete circle. Three was a mystical number and was considered holy. The ‘C’ that we have now is a throwback to those times. The most common times were in fact the equivalents of our 3/4 and 6/8. The idea that 4/4 is ‘common’ only seems to make sense in the context of 20th and 21st century music. Waltzes and minuets used to be very common indeed.
As a drummer who often plays Scottish traditional music I found i treat 22 Quick step as 44 when counting in my head it’s much easier to keep time and keep a smooth flow
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Though i can agree with part of this concept, one should note that there are plenty of compositions written in 4/4 but the 1/4 note is equal to 160 or more beats per second. Then you would not feel the the piece in 4 beats per measure but in 2 or even 1 beat per measure. On the opposite side - Mozart sym #39 is written in cut time (alle breve) but is conducted in 4 or even in 8 beats per measure.
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Nice explanation! Would be VERY useful to hear you play the SAME piece in 2/2 V 4/4 - Perhaps that would emphasize the difference even more effectively? Thanks as always :D
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Great video. I think this all works if one is more conventional and is composing or playing in a conventional style. But some progressive musicians could take a piece in 2/2 and play it in a way which is sounds like 4/4 with the accents on beats that would make it sound like 4/4 instead of 2/2 or vice versa or even other odder time signatures.
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I just want to say that your channel is a gold mine. All across the internet you see these newbs claiming to be Mozarts but hardly add any depth of knowledge in teaching the music theory.
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Great video as always. Like how you use measure and bar. Two points of interest. Point 1, it appears that Early church music was in triple time and used a circle time signature. Anything else used a half circle or common time ? Point 2, in Glenn Miller's Chatanooga Choo Choo, Tex Beneke sings "the whistle blowing 8 to the bar (I guess measure didn't rhyme with far?)
We usually call measures "bars" in North America. Also, boogie woogie was a craze in the late '30s and 40s, and the lyric was an obvious reference to the hit tune "Beat Me Daddy, 8 to the Bar," which every pop music fan knew.
Always hated cut time, thought it was stupid and just made things unnessecarily complicated. Finished this video liking it! Great explanation, I can see how cut time is so important
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Many marches are written in 2/4 or Cut Time rather than 4/4. This makes sense because we have 2 feet, not 4. it is also often a challenge to discern whether a piece is in 2 or 4 by listening to it without the benefit of having the score in front of you.
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I have also seen cut time used to simplify the writing of 16th and 32nd notes, by allowing them to be written as 8th and 16th notes, respectively. Saves having to write that extra line.
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Very nice. I'm much clearer on this now. Prior, I semi-consciously assumed that 2/2 would feel heavier. This is likely due to half notes (minims) being strong in 4/4. Turns out the contrary is true. 4/4 has two strong beats and 2/2 just has one. So, in a sense, 2/2 has just one beat per measure and 4/4 has two. Maybe Bluegrass is the strongest example I'm somewhat familiar with with a 2/2 feel.
Very broadly what you say is right. However, in the 18th C and early 19th C barred C could be used to increase the tempo of a 4/4 piece, and if there are are lot of semiquavers or if the rhythm shows 4 beats this is likely to be the case. Czerny and Hummel quote pieces written in barred C as being in 4/4 too often for it to be a mistake. The same applies to pieces in 2/4 - with lots of demisemiquavers they are effectively in 4/8. Also in 4/4 slow movements, the beat is very often a quaver beat, and to count it in 4/4 will increase the speed of an adagio to an andante or moderato. I haven't read every word of every old treatise, but so far I have found no evidence that a 4/4 would be counted in 2/2 in olden times. Avoiding heaviness can be done by articulation rather than increasing the speed.
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Tonic chords in cadences are always placed on the strongest metric positions in the meter, i.e. beat one. The cadential dominant will often fall at the halfway point (or slightly later) metrically in the previous measure. Obviously, if the harmonic rhythm is solidly one chord per measure, the entire penultimate measure will hold the cadential dominant. The examples here appear to circumvent that.
tu tu → 💃 fur fur → 🐻 any questions, class? actually "c = common time" is a pet peeve incorrect fact because as you know historically the "c" is actually a half circle indicating a non-trinity time, it never was a "c" as an abbreviation of "common" 03:47 Great demo. More ear training examples needed on this difference.. and now I wonder if music notation software adapts the sheet music playback algorithm (MIDI velocity emphasis) between 2/2 and 4/4.
Apparently there's something different about the way I hear music because I have watched this a dozen times and don't "feel" anything about either time signature and they don't seem any different to me other than what notes are played. The way this is described makes it seem like there's something screamingly obvious about where a bar ends and I just don't hear or feel anything.
At a certain point all tempos and meters eventually become the same. 2/2 with the half note at 80 is the same as 4/4 with the quarter at 160 which is the same as 8/8 with the eighth at 320 (not that anybody would ever use that). At a certain point once you keep adding or subtracting BPM you end up back where you started just with a different subdivision of the whole note, but the divisions below and higher than the one you count with convert back to each other. So if there's a 2/2 piece in 70 bpm, the subdivisions are really in 140 bpm, but these are actually equivalent, you could count both tempos on both feet if you really wanted (and generally, you don't count just the ictus, you also count the subdivisions). There's actually only a limited number of tempi that the whole note can have if you look at it this way, because the higher or lower you go you always end up circling back to a tempo you had previously. There's also nothing actually stopping you from counting 4/4 in two or 2/2 in four. Usually you do count faster 4/4 tempos in two, beats 2 and 4 are the same as the "and" of 1 and 2 in 2/2, the stresses fall in the same places too.
This is so valuable a lesson to me. Could you please clarify about the beat emphasis differences between 4/4 and 2/2? Is it correct to say in a 2/2, only the first beat has emphasis while in a 4/4 the first and third beat get emphasis but first beat emphasis must be the stronger? Thank you.
The beginning of Beethoven's 15th string quartet has 8 measures marked "Assai sostenuto" in cut time, followed by "Allegro" in common time. I do not understand why he used both time signatures. As for making the music "lighter", the profoundly sad first movement of the 14th string quartet is in cut time. Chopin's E-minor prelude is "Largo" but in cut time.
Re: 15th string quartet, my guess is he wanted each of the sustained note attacks to feel like downbeats in each subsequent measure, rather than a somewhat weaker feel on beat 3 of a 4/4.
Someone to lean going back in history of European music notation, 3/4 Time was represented by a circle (°) which represented perfection is in the Holy Trinity. The "C" of Common Time, or "C" with line through it (¢) for "Cut" time 2/2 represented a broken circle.
Thank you for your explanation! If 2 beats per measure is what we want, then why not choose 2/4 rather than 2/2? Does the decision, also, depend on the real estate or the readability of the score? For example, in 2/2 one can use quarter notes, where in 2/4 one would use eighth notes. But, it also depends on the tempo.
Judging by the slight uncertainty in your comment, I suspect you mean 12/8. This is a compound time signature, often felt as a regular 4/4 beat in triplets (because 4*3=12). If you really mean 12/8, you're going straight into much more complex theory with tuplet meters.
Thanks, but now I'm wondering what's the difference between 2/4 and 2/2... is it just the tempo in this case or is there a difference on how the music feels here too?
@@MusicMattersGB So there's no difference. You could write the exact same piece in the same tempo in 2/4 and in 2/2 and they would be performed in the same way.
I think now I wonder what different between 2/2 and 2/4 on base only what we hear. Both have two beats in the measure. how one center around the half note and the other the quarter note.
Sir, your explanations are fine. I appreciate that, I understand the difference. In a world of Prog music we encounter many odd signatures. But what if polystylism kicks in? If I may humbly interest you, with band called Haken and their instrumental composition, Nil By Mouth. In a middle of the song I feel there's poly rhythm of 11/16 within 4/4 signature. Everybody laughs at me, that I'm crazy, but I feel like it's intentional. Is it possible? I'd try to send you exact moment played on drum cover of this song. If you curious, check it out.
How does this square against 6/8 either conducted in 2 or in 6? I only ask because the explanation for 2/2 vs 4/4 is basically the difference in feel, yet 6/8 conducted in 2 has a very different feel (and tempo) compared to 6/8 conducted in 6 yet the time signature is the same in both cases.
American music can show some great examples of the difference between 2/2 and 4/2. Bluegrass music is in 2/2 that ultra fast stuff with Earl Scruggs shredding on the banjo is in 2/2. You're just counting "One, Two, One, Two, One Two" . And there's a modern genre of American music called Alt Country that uses a very slow 2/2 pattern. Then for your blues and rock music you have 4/4. And with that signature you have the eighth notes on the 3rd beat, "One, Two, Three And, Four". I think not having the "And" in one time signature is a significant difference.
I was wondering about 2/2 vs 2/4. Both have two beats in a bar, just a different foundational note value. Is the difference only in terms of how you write them out? That is, in some cases, it's clearer to write it out as 2/2 instead of 2/4 with the appropriate tempo marking, or is there some other difference? 3/4 vs 6/8 I understand -- big difference in terms of duple vs triple feel. But 2/2 vs 2/4 I'm unclear on whether there's anything more going on than the note values written out.
I was always confused on why two measures of 2/2 time wasn't the same as one measure of 4/4 time, but I guess it has to do with the Emphasis on which beat.
Just a question. If we want to feel 2 beats in a bar. Wouldn’t 2 4 time do the same. Just wanted to understand if the minim measure does anything in terms of tempo of the song or count. Apologies if I am getting this completely wrong. Thanks
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something you said in passing helped me more than your actual explanation... that the beats aren't all equal emphasis.
so it's ONE two three four ONE two...
vs.
ONE two ONE two...
if that's the case, then I now understand the difference in rhythm.
Brilliant
Thanks...YOU helped me..!!
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Great explanation. I wish someone had been around who explained things this clearly back when I finally realised the importance of understanding what I was playing. I played in a full-time rock band back in the '70s that did cover tunes. We only played one original tune and, all being self-taught and unable to read/write music, just played what felt natural to us. We had no idea there was anything different about it until the first time we played it on-stage in a bar and it cleared the dance-floor. At the end of the set we took a guitar back to the dressing room and figured out what the problem was; it was in 11/4. That was the night I decided that learning how to read music and some theory was probably a good idea. (I still have no idea why something in 11/4 felt so natural. The fact we never counted it out and none of us could dance probably had something to do with it.)
Great experience share there.
I'd like to hear that. Sounds like a challenge
11/4;1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2
or
11/4;1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3
Frank Zappa composed a
13/4;1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3
Tapping the foot on the ONE while clapping out the full count gives us the "groove" or "feel" from which we can flow with the time signature.
You did well to play a piece in 11/4 by feel 😵
😀
Love your emphasis on “feel”. As a blues guy, this really speaks to me.
That’s great
As a beginning guitar player, I really appreciated this video as it made a lot of sense to me. However, I was still having some trouble distinguishing between 2/2 and 4/4 until just now, when I started learning to play "Angels Fall" by Winterpills, and realized I was counting it as "ONE and TWO and ONE and TWO..."
...and then it clicked for real. Counting "One-two-three-four" seemed unnecessarily fast and impatient for a hazy, melancholy kind of song like that. Thank you sir!
Excellent. When you feel it through the music you’re playing then it makes complete sense.
Always learn something new from you. Simply love it!! Thanks
This is one of the very useful lesson for music students 👏👌Thank you so much 🙏
Very helpful! Nice attention on the ‘feel & intent’ nuances I hadn’t considered carefully enough.
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Just found this channel. And this was a most understandable explanation of 2\2-4\4 difference for me. Incredible teaching.
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Great video!!! I'm already in Music theory 3 and still didn't understand the difference between 4/4 and 2/2 thanks for this great explanation! Looking forward to watching more of your videos!
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same reason a lot of punk rock is in 2/2. I don't have a score in front of me or anything, but The Offspring song "million miles away" comes to mind.
Oh my... I was thinking about it earlier today! Thank you!
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Me too, it's uncanny!
😀
They hear you!!! Constantly. And read your mind!!!
😀
The algorithm brought me here. My background is Death Metal and a band called Nile famously uses 2/2 for a lot of their music. They are playing 16th notes over 230bpm very often and they pulse at half the beat for the precise reasons discussed here. You can’t really maintain a beat at 260bpm for 5 minutes, but 130? This might be possible, even if you are playing 32nd notes.
Good video.
Can you suggest a song done in 2/2 by Nile?
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I love Nile. Technically speaking, 2/2 is the same as 4/4 in half time. Normally I would disregard any value below 60 or above 240, because you can just double or half it to make it a more intuitive bpm. With Nile though, because it's at such high speeds, I think it's useful to think of it as 2/2, so you can see all the nuances in their playing, while keeping it readable within each measure. It's all subjective though
The best music theory teacher by far! Thank you
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I always thought Mr Quigley in high school was by far the best teacher... ☺️
This is easily the clearest and simplest explanation of this I've seen. Maths is one thing, but the *feel* of the music something else. This helped so incredibly much, thank you!
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Thank you so much!!! Even being Brazilian with a low level of English, he can understand the explanation well, and help me a lot. I'm a new subscribed
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This is literally the best explanation of the difference between 2/2 and 4/4 I've heard. It has always been something that has confused me, and this makes it very clear. Thank you! As always, love your content, Gareth!
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Very enjoyable video.
Interesting and informative.
Good stuff.🎸👍
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Yes! Can we get more lessons on time signatures and lessons such as this!? Thanks
There are other videos on the channel on this subject. More are coming soon.
One of the biggest differences between 2/2 and 4/4 is when you add drums. In 2/2 it tends to be just bass on 1 and snare on 2, while 4/4 has bass on one and snare on 3, with hi-hat on 1,2,3,4 - totally different feel.
Sure
Thanks for your time and explanation
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Divisions makes a very big difference when you dance. If I have to move to f.i. 5/4 I divide the feel to my feet 1-2-1-2-1. You clearly feel the differences of signatures when you move FWIW. Great video, will be checking more of them ;-)
That’s great.
I love your theory's lessons. So well done. Thank you
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Cut time is really useful when writing for funk too eg a high energy rhythm section with melodic horns.
BTW I saw a recommendation for your channel on reddit, someone who is a (former?) Berklee tutor apparently, so here I am! I haven't watched that much yet, but from what I've seen so far it's very clear and well explained info 👍Great stuff, thanks.
Welcome. Great to have you with us.
Latin music is in cut time
Priceless.
You Rock.
I truly hope that u get a billion views.
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Such good explanation!! Thank you.
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Claiming that a 4/4 has a heavy downbeat goes against what you would find in a rock song where the heavy beats typically are on two and four, also called the backbeat. In reggae you’ll even find examples that only has a heavy third beat in 4/4. But great video new sub here!
Sure. The back beats are key in certain styles.
Gareth, knowing how to interpret and execute a piece rhythmically is considered just as, or at times, more important than the melodic and/or harmonic interpretation. Unfortunately, all too many playing music fall short on this. Thanks for being there. One can only hope your message gets across😉
Thanks for supporting the message.
"Unfortunately, all too many playing music fall short on this" this a 100%. that's why I'm here, as a humble guitar player knowing he sucks at these things. I hope that with a little more understanding I'll get better at this.
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@@hahahadracula 👍 well, you’ve got the right idea !we’re all in this together and learning is lifelong.. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I was on a high horse or anything for anybody that might be concerned about that, but I do feel where you coming from. I’m happy that I know a little bit more than the average ground pounder, but I’m always humble enough to be continually seeking betterment of self. Even when I know the content, I’ll check it out anyway, in case there’s some little tidbit that I could pick up that I may not have realized before.
@@shipsahoy1793 I have a background in Physics and chemistry. There is so much to know that no one can learn it all (unless you are gifted). I see music the same way. Just need to know what the basics are, and music has a lot of basics.
Great video! Helps so much!
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That was just amazing, thank you prof
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With each new composition student I have I discuss this issue, and still no one seems to understand it!
I wonder what should I do or say to make them feel the difference.
Thank you so much.
Keep up the good work!
@@MusicMattersGB The next time I go through it again, I'll show them your (this) video.
its the easiest and simplest way to explain it.
Thank you much.
Great
I think the hardest part of teaching this is pop rock and metal music in common practice of the last 70 years has been considered 4/4 whether or not it has the 4/4 feel.
😀
clear and concise explanation. Thanks
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This is a wonderfully concise and informative video. I’m glad you mostly avoided talking about ‘common time’. There is a popular misconception that the ‘C’ is an abbreviation of ‘common’ but in fact it goes back to the ‘mensural notation’ of the late Middle Ages. Music in 3/4 was represented by a circle and was considered ‘perfect’ or ‘complete’. Music in duple or quadruple time was considered ‘imperfect’ or ‘incomplete’ and was represented by an incomplete circle. Three was a mystical number and was considered holy. The ‘C’ that we have now is a throwback to those times. The most common times were in fact the equivalents of our 3/4 and 6/8. The idea that 4/4 is ‘common’ only seems to make sense in the context of 20th and 21st century music. Waltzes and minuets used to be very common indeed.
Absolutely
As a drummer who often plays Scottish traditional music I found i treat 22 Quick step as 44 when counting in my head it’s much easier to keep time and keep a smooth flow
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Great video! Thank you!
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super helpful, thank you!!!
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Fantastic explanation... got a new subscriber now!
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Wonderful explanations!
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS lecture...
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Though i can agree with part of this concept, one should note that there are plenty of compositions written in 4/4 but the 1/4 note is equal to 160 or more beats per second. Then you would not feel the the piece in 4 beats per measure but in 2 or even 1 beat per measure. On the opposite side - Mozart sym #39 is written in cut time (alle breve) but is conducted in 4 or even in 8 beats per measure.
It’s certainly true that composers don’t always choose the ideal time signature for the tempo or character of their piece.
Very informative. Thank you🙂
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Nice explanation! Would be VERY useful to hear you play the SAME piece in 2/2 V 4/4 - Perhaps that would emphasize the difference even more effectively? Thanks as always :D
😀
I do appreciate your videos a lot :).
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Great video. I think this all works if one is more conventional and is composing or playing in a conventional style. But some progressive musicians could take a piece in 2/2 and play it in a way which is sounds like 4/4 with the accents on beats that would make it sound like 4/4 instead of 2/2 or vice versa or even other odder time signatures.
Absolutely
The easiest way to feel the difference is by counting the beats: 4/4 is “One Two Three Four”, and 2/2: One and Two and.
Good video, well explained.
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excellent explanation Maestro!
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Great video. Thank you very much.
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Great video, thank you Gareth!
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I just want to say that your channel is a gold mine. All across the internet you see these newbs claiming to be Mozarts but hardly add any depth of knowledge in teaching the music theory.
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Very nicely explained 👌
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This is great, thank you very much 😊
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Great video as always. Like how you use measure and bar. Two points of interest. Point 1, it appears that Early church music was in triple time and used a circle time signature. Anything else used a half circle or common time ? Point 2, in Glenn Miller's Chatanooga Choo Choo, Tex Beneke sings "the whistle blowing 8 to the bar (I guess measure didn't rhyme with far?)
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We usually call measures "bars" in North America. Also, boogie woogie was a craze in the late '30s and 40s, and the lyric was an obvious reference to the hit tune "Beat Me Daddy, 8 to the Bar," which every pop music fan knew.
Fair enough.
Always hated cut time, thought it was stupid and just made things unnessecarily complicated. Finished this video liking it! Great explanation, I can see how cut time is so important
Excellent
Very enjoyable video thank you .Please can you tell me if any of your courses covers sight reading for drum kit ? thanks - Mark
Not at the moment but there’s a rhythm course due next year
Great and simple lesson. Greatings from Poland.
Greetings to you too.
Good stuff! Thank you!
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Thanx, Sir. Very helpful. Have a fantastic 2022.🌹🌹🌹New Subbie.
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Many marches are written in 2/4 or Cut Time rather than 4/4. This makes sense because we have 2 feet, not 4. it is also often a challenge to discern whether a piece is in 2 or 4 by listening to it without the benefit of having the score in front of you.
Absolutely
That was really helpful!
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I have also seen cut time used to simplify the writing of 16th and 32nd notes, by allowing them to be written as 8th and 16th notes, respectively. Saves having to write that extra line.
Absolutely
Thanks for clarity on the difference.
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3/4 and 6/8 is another one that trips a lot of folks up!
Absolutely. See our video on the subject
Very nice. I'm much clearer on this now. Prior, I semi-consciously assumed that 2/2 would feel heavier. This is likely due to half notes (minims) being strong in 4/4. Turns out the contrary is true.
4/4 has two strong beats and 2/2 just has one. So, in a sense, 2/2 has just one beat per measure and 4/4 has two. Maybe Bluegrass is the strongest example I'm somewhat familiar with with a 2/2 feel.
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Very broadly what you say is right. However, in the 18th C and early 19th C barred C could be used to increase the tempo of a 4/4 piece, and if there are are lot of semiquavers or if the rhythm shows 4 beats this is likely to be the case. Czerny and Hummel quote pieces written in barred C as being in 4/4 too often for it to be a mistake. The same applies to pieces in 2/4 - with lots of demisemiquavers they are effectively in 4/8. Also in 4/4 slow movements, the beat is very often a quaver beat, and to count it in 4/4 will increase the speed of an adagio to an andante or moderato. I haven't read every word of every old treatise, but so far I have found no evidence that a 4/4 would be counted in 2/2 in olden times. Avoiding heaviness can be done by articulation rather than increasing the speed.
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Very well said its musical difference, now I understand thank you.
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this makes so much sense - sio helpful :-)
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Great video thank you so much.
This fixed my confusion.
Excellent
The most useful video on RUclips.
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Spiegazione perfetta, grazie!
😀
I always thought cut time was used in marches where the two beats corresponded to left foot/right foot. No?
Possibly
Thank you for this
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Tonic chords in cadences are always placed on the strongest metric positions in the meter, i.e. beat one. The cadential dominant will often fall at the halfway point (or slightly later) metrically in the previous measure. Obviously, if the harmonic rhythm is solidly one chord per measure, the entire penultimate measure will hold the cadential dominant. The examples here appear to circumvent that.
Because there are vast numbers of examples that don’t follow your premise.
As a drummer for a Pink Floyd tribute band I often set my metronome to 2/4 bc the emphasis on the 1 helps the band lock in.
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Your are brilliant sir thank you
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tu tu → 💃
fur fur → 🐻
any questions, class?
actually "c = common time" is a pet peeve incorrect fact because as you know historically the "c" is actually a half circle indicating a non-trinity time, it never was a "c" as an abbreviation of "common"
03:47 Great demo. More ear training examples needed on this difference.. and now I wonder if music notation software adapts the sheet music playback algorithm (MIDI velocity emphasis) between 2/2 and 4/4.
wait did you play the outro music in 2/2 ? lol
I’m not claiming it to be historical fact but saying it’s the best way to remember it.
Good golly Moses you helped so much just now
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Apparently there's something different about the way I hear music because I have watched this a dozen times and don't "feel" anything about either time signature and they don't seem any different to me other than what notes are played. The way this is described makes it seem like there's something screamingly obvious about where a bar ends and I just don't hear or feel anything.
The difference is subtle but significant
At a certain point all tempos and meters eventually become the same. 2/2 with the half note at 80 is the same as 4/4 with the quarter at 160 which is the same as 8/8 with the eighth at 320 (not that anybody would ever use that). At a certain point once you keep adding or subtracting BPM you end up back where you started just with a different subdivision of the whole note, but the divisions below and higher than the one you count with convert back to each other. So if there's a 2/2 piece in 70 bpm, the subdivisions are really in 140 bpm, but these are actually equivalent, you could count both tempos on both feet if you really wanted (and generally, you don't count just the ictus, you also count the subdivisions).
There's actually only a limited number of tempi that the whole note can have if you look at it this way, because the higher or lower you go you always end up circling back to a tempo you had previously.
There's also nothing actually stopping you from counting 4/4 in two or 2/2 in four. Usually you do count faster 4/4 tempos in two, beats 2 and 4 are the same as the "and" of 1 and 2 in 2/2, the stresses fall in the same places too.
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This is so valuable a lesson to me. Could you please clarify about the beat emphasis differences between 4/4 and 2/2? Is it correct to say in a 2/2, only the first beat has emphasis while in a 4/4 the first and third beat get emphasis but first beat emphasis must be the stronger? Thank you.
Absolutely correct
The beginning of Beethoven's 15th string quartet has 8 measures marked "Assai sostenuto" in cut time, followed by "Allegro" in common time. I do not understand why he used both time signatures.
As for making the music "lighter", the profoundly sad first movement of the 14th string quartet is in cut time.
Chopin's E-minor prelude is "Largo" but in cut time.
Re: 15th string quartet, my guess is he wanted each of the sustained note attacks to feel like downbeats in each subsequent measure, rather than a somewhat weaker feel on beat 3 of a 4/4.
It’s really about the weight of the pulse in any given context.
Many thanks.
A pleasure
Bossa Nova music has a 2/2 time feel, but so often it's notated wrongly as 4/4.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Such a good video! I’ve also wondered about 2/4? Is that even necessary? :)
See our video on 2/4.
Someone to lean going back in history of European music notation, 3/4 Time was represented by a circle (°) which represented perfection is in the Holy Trinity.
The "C" of Common Time, or "C" with line through it (¢) for "Cut" time 2/2 represented a broken circle.
Absolutely
Thank you for your explanation! If 2 beats per measure is what we want, then why not choose 2/4 rather than 2/2? Does the decision, also, depend on the real estate or the readability of the score? For example, in 2/2 one can use quarter notes, where in 2/4 one would use eighth notes. But, it also depends on the tempo.
Absolutely. It will sound the same either way but it’s up to the composer to decide which is easier to read.
Great vid as always,Gareth🙂. I think I saw in one composition a really strange time signature, 8/12 I think. What's that all about?😬
There are irregular time signatures. 8/12 is certainly unusual. 12/8 would be much more common
Judging by the slight uncertainty in your comment, I suspect you mean 12/8. This is a compound time signature, often felt as a regular 4/4 beat in triplets (because 4*3=12). If you really mean 12/8, you're going straight into much more complex theory with tuplet meters.
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Some pieces of music are in 4/4, but will have measures in 2/2. Can you do a video on how that winds up sounding when played?
That’s an idea
Thanks, but now I'm wondering what's the difference between 2/4 and 2/2... is it just the tempo in this case or is there a difference on how the music feels here too?
2/2 often features a faster tempo. The rest is about notation.
@@MusicMattersGB can you clarify? I too don't get 2/4 vs 4/4
Sorry 2/4 vs 2/2
@@MusicMattersGB So there's no difference. You could write the exact same piece in the same tempo in 2/4 and in 2/2 and they would be performed in the same way.
True
Thanks!
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Thanx!
A pleasure. Thanks for your support
I think now I wonder what different between 2/2 and 2/4 on base only what we hear. Both have two beats in the measure. how one center around the half note and the other the quarter note.
Absolutely. It’s just a matter of notation. They sound the same.
Sir, your explanations are fine. I appreciate that, I understand the difference. In a world of Prog music we encounter many odd signatures. But what if polystylism kicks in? If I may humbly interest you, with band called Haken and their instrumental composition, Nil By Mouth. In a middle of the song I feel there's poly rhythm of 11/16 within 4/4 signature. Everybody laughs at me, that I'm crazy, but I feel like it's intentional. Is it possible? I'd try to send you exact moment played on drum cover of this song. If you curious, check it out.
Will check it out
So much easier to understand the half note and the quarter note than minims and such things.
It depends on one’s musical upbringing
How does this square against 6/8 either conducted in 2 or in 6?
I only ask because the explanation for 2/2 vs 4/4 is basically the difference in feel, yet 6/8 conducted in 2 has a very different feel (and tempo) compared to 6/8 conducted in 6 yet the time signature is the same in both cases.
Agreed. 6/8 is generally in 2 because it is a Compound Duple metre but it may be conducted in 6 when the tempo is very slow.
American music can show some great examples of the difference between 2/2 and 4/2. Bluegrass music is in 2/2 that ultra fast stuff with Earl Scruggs shredding on the banjo is in 2/2. You're just counting "One, Two, One, Two, One Two" . And there's a modern genre of American music called Alt Country that uses a very slow 2/2 pattern.
Then for your blues and rock music you have 4/4. And with that signature you have the eighth notes on the 3rd beat, "One, Two, Three And, Four".
I think not having the "And" in one time signature is a significant difference.
Good points
Thanks so much for explaining this but what about 6/8 vs 3/4
This is the video for you: ruclips.net/video/gxynOZ_vt6U/видео.html
Good lesson. I could have used 3-4 more examples, e.g. you playing a 2/4 song in 4/4
Could one compare the three four and six eight to this lesson also..?
More examples. Fair point. 3/4 and 6/8 are fundamentally different. We have a video on that topic.
I was wondering about 2/2 vs 2/4. Both have two beats in a bar, just a different foundational note value. Is the difference only in terms of how you write them out? That is, in some cases, it's clearer to write it out as 2/2 instead of 2/4 with the appropriate tempo marking, or is there some other difference? 3/4 vs 6/8 I understand -- big difference in terms of duple vs triple feel. But 2/2 vs 2/4 I'm unclear on whether there's anything more going on than the note values written out.
Yes. That’s essentially the issue. The difficulty comes when people play 2/2 pieces as if they are in 4/4.
I was always confused on why two measures of 2/2 time wasn't the same as one measure of 4/4 time, but I guess it has to do with the Emphasis on which beat.
Absolutely
Super super super explanation
Glad it’s helpful. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Just a question. If we want to feel 2 beats in a bar. Wouldn’t 2 4 time do the same. Just wanted to understand if the minim measure does anything in terms of tempo of the song or count. Apologies if I am getting this completely wrong. Thanks
2/4 and 2/2 sound the same as each other. They simply look different.
@@MusicMattersGB Thanks a lot
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Brilliantly presented and informative talk. Now I know what the slashed C signature means i will stop playing it in 4/4!
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