@@TheCinematographyLab It doesn't need math. You record the palses, if you want from start to finish to see possible changes as the sring unwinds, and then you zoom wherever you want on the "audio" track and measure different seconds etc.
Thank you for this useful information. I did for a canon 1014 Electronic and 814 Electronic using the app, the results are: 23.75 fps for the 1014 and 23.68 fps for the 814. I'll do for other cameras, including some 16mm like the Eumig C16.
@@TheCinematographyLab It will be. It has a variable speed knob, and then a switch to select the fixed speed 24 or 25. Since I'm in Europe, I will be assuming this one will be set for 25. fps. I'll set up and film it now. I will do a video on this camera, but am just finishing off a making a LOMO tank copy to use with 3D printed GNAL spools, so I can develop my own films.
@@TheCinematographyLab I didn't use the App, as my Lumix G81 has both 24P and 25 P frame rate options. Confirmed that this R16 is a 25P (PAL) version, but the speed when set with the fixed frame rate selector is not perfect. Using the variable frame rate knob, I could dial in a more stable 24 or 25P using the video camera. Thanks for showing all three methods.
@@RotarySMP Sounds great! I have never had an R16, but I read the manual because I wanted one. I understand you set the switch to the 24/25fps position and that keeps the motor running closer at those speeds, but you still have to adjust the speed using the speed knob and the marks on the display (tachometer). That's where the digital camera or the app can help you find the best spot just like you did! Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm looking forward to watching that video. I'm also interested in seeing how the 3D printed tank performs. You are a machinist! you got a new subscriber!
@@TheCinematographyLab I got really lucky with the R16. It was poorly advertised, with a "make an offer" in the text. I made a cheeky low ball offer and they took it. It it has not done much work. Looks pretty mint. Thanks for that tip, I will repeat the sync test this time using the speed dial to try and fine tune the switched speed. A mate 3D printed the GNAL reels, but the tank I am constructing out of a 300mm PVC pipe. I will upload a video on that as well, once I have it finished and tested. The Telecine is the last piece of this puzzle I still have to make.
Thanks for recommending the Strobe app. It hadn’t even occurred to me to use a strobe to check / calibrate my camera. This is an invaluable tool for me because I’m restoring a 16mm camera from 1924 that runs at 14FPS. Now I can adjust my governor confidently. Thank you. Where did you purchase and what model is your stroboscope? I might buy a real one.
Sounds like a fun project! I have noticed the intervalometer works better at 24fps and faster speeds, but you should give a try for sure. I purchased the intervalometer from Aapo Letinen. He is in Finland and he is making new crsytal sync motors for film cameras. That intervalometer has only 2 speeds (24 & 25fps) When I purchased it, it was only the plate with the electronics. I made the enclosure and I had to find a power solution. It's not an actual product. I purchased it because I have several cameras and because I wanted to support Aapo's efforts. cinematography.com/index.php?/profile/28473-aapo-lettinen/
Ok really silly question on the Bolex and putting sound on film. So say it’s 1968 and I have a Rex 4 or Rex 5 and I want to use a crystal sync motor because I want to record a sound film and I have a Uher tape recorder to capture the sound: how did the lab put the sound from a tape recorder to put on the film? Does the film later have a magnetic stripe and is run though a machine to sync the audio to the visuals?
If you have a crystal sync camera and an audio recorder that runs at a constant speed it's just a matter of putting sound and the image together. There are several ways to do this. It can be done with time code and fancy machines, but the simplest way to do it is using a clapboard. You find the clip on the audio track and synchronize it with the frame where the clapboard closed. I don't know exactly how they do it, but a lab can print the sound waves on the film, then a projector that has sound capabilities can play that sound while it projects the image. I know that tape recorders were used as well. Some projectors can start and stop an audio player, but I don't know the details of how they sync them. Happily we use software these days which makes the process way easier.
23.976 fps stems from having to be compatible with NTSC broadcasting. It’s exact value is 24/1.001 fps which makes for a repeating decimal. The RUclips channel “Standupmaths” with Matt Parker has a video on this very thing.
That is correct. It's not needed now that digital televisions can display any frame rate, still pretty much all digital cameras have the 24p option. It's a standard inherited from the NTSC days.
The funny thing is we could’ve had integer fps numbers like with B&W NTSC if they upped the line resolution as Matt Parker says. I’m just glad my GoPro Hero 11 Black supports true 24 fps.
@@alexlandherr I don't think you need to disassemble the camera. Just move the pressure plate away from the gate and you should be able to see the pull down claw. As I demonstrated with the Scoopic M in the video you can use the claw to see the speed at which the camera is running.
super helpful brother!💪 amazing video
Thanks brotther!
Dude, your advice is so insightful... another awesome one man...
I appreciate that! I'm glad to hear you liked the video.
Thanks! Another path someone may consider is a shutter tester recording on Audacity or other audio capture program.
That's true. You can quantify the amount of pulses per second. It would take some work and some math, but possible for sure.
@@TheCinematographyLab It doesn't need math. You record the palses, if you want from start to finish to see possible changes as the sring unwinds, and then you zoom wherever you want on the "audio" track and measure different seconds etc.
This is really useful information, many thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching Daniel.
Thank you for this useful information. I did for a canon 1014 Electronic and 814 Electronic using the app, the results are: 23.75 fps for the 1014 and 23.68 fps for the 814. I'll do for other cameras, including some 16mm like the Eumig C16.
Cool brother, good to hear the video was useful. I'm glad to hear the cameras are running pretty much on the spot!
Great video. I'll have to check the R16 I just bought.
It will be interesting to see how accurate the internal tachometer of the R16 is compared to the app.
@@TheCinematographyLab It will be. It has a variable speed knob, and then a switch to select the fixed speed 24 or 25. Since I'm in Europe, I will be assuming this one will be set for 25. fps. I'll set up and film it now.
I will do a video on this camera, but am just finishing off a making a LOMO tank copy to use with 3D printed GNAL spools, so I can develop my own films.
@@TheCinematographyLab I didn't use the App, as my Lumix G81 has both 24P and 25 P frame rate options. Confirmed that this R16 is a 25P (PAL) version, but the speed when set with the fixed frame rate selector is not perfect. Using the variable frame rate knob, I could dial in a more stable 24 or 25P using the video camera. Thanks for showing all three methods.
@@RotarySMP Sounds great! I have never had an R16, but I read the manual because I wanted one. I understand you set the switch to the 24/25fps position and that keeps the motor running closer at those speeds, but you still have to adjust the speed using the speed knob and the marks on the display (tachometer). That's where the digital camera or the app can help you find the best spot just like you did!
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm looking forward to watching that video. I'm also interested in seeing how the 3D printed tank performs. You are a machinist! you got a new subscriber!
@@TheCinematographyLab I got really lucky with the R16. It was poorly advertised, with a "make an offer" in the text. I made a cheeky low ball offer and they took it. It it has not done much work. Looks pretty mint.
Thanks for that tip, I will repeat the sync test this time using the speed dial to try and fine tune the switched speed.
A mate 3D printed the GNAL reels, but the tank I am constructing out of a 300mm PVC pipe. I will upload a video on that as well, once I have it finished and tested. The Telecine is the last piece of this puzzle I still have to make.
Great channel! Keep it up
Thank you!
Thanks for recommending the Strobe app. It hadn’t even occurred to me to use a strobe to check / calibrate my camera. This is an invaluable tool for me because I’m restoring a 16mm camera from 1924 that runs at 14FPS. Now I can adjust my governor confidently. Thank you. Where did you purchase and what model is your stroboscope? I might buy a real one.
Sounds like a fun project! I have noticed the intervalometer works better at 24fps and faster speeds, but you should give a try for sure.
I purchased the intervalometer from Aapo Letinen. He is in Finland and he is making new crsytal sync motors for film cameras. That intervalometer has only 2 speeds (24 & 25fps) When I purchased it, it was only the plate with the electronics. I made the enclosure and I had to find a power solution. It's not an actual product. I purchased it because I have several cameras and because I wanted to support Aapo's efforts.
cinematography.com/index.php?/profile/28473-aapo-lettinen/
@@TheCinematographyLab Thanks for the information!
@@TheCinematographyLabI ended up buying a used Shimpo Stroboscope. It’s in RPM but I should be able to type in the the conversion of 14HZ, 840 RPM.
@@RMphy89 Cool! I hope it works well. It would be nice to hear about your results.
@@TheCinematographyLab Thank you. I will be documenting the results on a new channel I created. 20th Century Antiques. First video is there now.
Ok really silly question on the Bolex and putting sound on film. So say it’s 1968 and I have a Rex 4 or Rex 5 and I want to use a crystal sync motor because I want to record a sound film and I have a Uher tape recorder to capture the sound: how did the lab put the sound from a tape recorder to put on the film? Does the film later have a magnetic stripe and is run though a machine to sync the audio to the visuals?
If you have a crystal sync camera and an audio recorder that runs at a constant speed it's just a matter of putting sound and the image together. There are several ways to do this. It can be done with time code and fancy machines, but the simplest way to do it is using a clapboard. You find the clip on the audio track and synchronize it with the frame where the clapboard closed.
I don't know exactly how they do it, but a lab can print the sound waves on the film, then a projector that has sound capabilities can play that sound while it projects the image. I know that tape recorders were used as well. Some projectors can start and stop an audio player, but I don't know the details of how they sync them. Happily we use software these days which makes the process way easier.
23.976 fps stems from having to be compatible with NTSC broadcasting. It’s exact value is 24/1.001 fps which makes for a repeating decimal. The RUclips channel “Standupmaths” with Matt Parker has a video on this very thing.
That is correct. It's not needed now that digital televisions can display any frame rate, still pretty much all digital cameras have the 24p option. It's a standard inherited from the NTSC days.
The funny thing is we could’ve had integer fps numbers like with B&W NTSC if they upped the line resolution as Matt Parker says.
I’m just glad my GoPro Hero 11 Black supports true 24 fps.
Do you know if the fps dial on a Bolex B8L is moved in fixed steps or whether it’s continuous?
I don't know. Considering the time period when the camera was manufactured I would assume it's continuous.
Thanks for the info.
It would make the process you document much easier indeed if it is so as no disassembly would be needed.
@@alexlandherr I don't think you need to disassemble the camera. Just move the pressure plate away from the gate and you should be able to see the pull down claw. As I demonstrated with the Scoopic M in the video you can use the claw to see the speed at which the camera is running.
Thanks again!
Once it’s CLA’d and repaired you bet it will!!