The Cardassian Warship - Galor-class - Star Trek Starships Explained!
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- This week, Trek Central's Lieutenant Commander Adam beams down to check out the Cardassian Warship known as the Galor-class. In our Star Trek Starships Explained series, we've spent much of the last year looking at Starfleet’s IMPRESSIVE armada of Federation-designed Starships. But now, it’s time to beam elsewhere in the galaxy and look at some alien species' starship designs and how they fit into the Star Trek Universe.
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Video Credits:
Written by Jack Trestrail
Presented by Adam Watson
Edited by Jack Richardson & Jack Trestrail
Special thanks to:
The Center Seat Documentary
Forgotten Trek - Galor-class Warship Files
forgottentrek....
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All STAR TREK® footage and its various marks are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. 2022 © CBS Studios Inc./Paramount Global Pictures Corp.
Title: The Cardassian Warship - Galor-class - Star Trek Starships Explained!
#StarTrek #Starships #DeepSpaceNine
I always loved the design. Its like a fish swimming through space.
Please keep making these. I watch ship break downs to wind down for the night. I've watched some videos over 80 times by now and all new videos are one of the few things I get happy over. I'd love to see more videos on enemy vessels from Trek.
That's the plan!
- Jack
I hear Borg Busters is the best one 😉
Oh, one thing: Whilst you probably know, the original design size of the Galor seems to have been 1580 to 1587 feet (or 481 to 483.7 m) in TNG, at least.
For DS9 they apparently scaled it down. But still often showed it, as larger (including compared to the Defiant)@@TrekCentral
We need a Continuation of the carrdassian people, of the rebuild efforts, of internal conflicts in government after such major disasters.
There is so much to write there.
They are better off than before. Cardassia Prime is devastated, along with the Septimus and Chintoka systems. But 99% of the War was fought outside Cardie borders. Treaty of Bajor stipulated no occupation, no territory lost. The Cardies inherited all that Dominion tech and a huge industrial base. Once they get over the shock and rebuild they are technologically and economically caught up with the other powers.
My massive misunderstanding about the name and premise of The Kardashians will always be one of the saddest moments of my life.
@@janeghudjars3496
Apart from the devastation of Cardassia Prime, the other big issue we see the Cardassians dealing with, at least according to STO, is a civil war between the Cardassian Republic and the "True Way", a splinter group who wish to reestablish the old authoritarian regime.
One of my favorite pieces of writing in a Star Trek novel is when Garak reveals what pushed him to run for leadership of cardassia on a pro-Federation ticket.
He essentially says he was invited to a meeting in the basement of a ruined home where they began plotting to restore cardassia to its former glory through conquest and war. Garak couldn't believe they were literally sitting in the ruins of cardassia prime planning the next big war, seemingly ignorant of the fact that their plans is what destroyed Cardassia in the first place.
@user-jc8ez9iw2j
Well, it goes beyond politics. The "True Way" is a full-on terrorist organization that have also aligned themselves with a splinter of the Dominion in the Alpha Quadrant.
Every time I see a video on the Galor, I see in most of them the authors making critical errors in assessment, most of which start from very basic flaws in evaluation. There is no standard Galor Class. And from that incorrect foundation follows flawed analysis. Common example: "Gul Macet's Trager was no match for the Enterprise D." Really? Do you think perhaps a German 1936A model Destroyer is inferior to an Iowa Class Battleship? It just might be? Comparing completely different classes of ships, like destroyers to battleships, or attack ships to cruisers, is not useful for evaluation of that ship type much less for a whole fleet. A single-snap shot of one variant of a ship is not informative over the course of decades when numerous changes are made. Using a 1960 model B-52 is not an adequate basis for assessing a modern B-52 any more for than using a Sherman M4A1 as opposed to the Super Shermans of the 1950s.
First and foremost, when people refer to the Galor Class, they need to be specific to which Type. The Galor has been around for decades, and by 2367 there had been three primary variants: Types: I-III. By TNG the predominant Galor is the Type II that date from the 2340s on that is a Destroyer, and the much newer Galor Type III, commissioned in 2364, that is a Medium Cruiser. A Galor II is roughly a peer of an Excelsior Class of the 2360s, while the Galor III is more formidable in a different role, far superior to the Type II. Moreover, the Type II and Type IIIs were heavily upgraded during the Dominion War, as demonstrated on-screen when their far increased firepower on their heavy beam cannons capable of matching the Type XI heavy Phasers that can one-shot B'Rel Class BoPs, Jem Hadar Attack Ships, and even Breen Frigates. In Operation Return, Galors even one-shot a Steamrunner and an Akira. The Galors are not the only example of the across-the-board leap in effectiveness in the Cardassian military. The Orbital Weapons Platforms are an example of the mass-production of new classes of Cardassian weapons. Cardassian technology was not the weakness for them: It was the resources to mass-produce their most advanced systems. The Dreadnaught Missile is a great example. State-of-the-Art everything, all homemade Cardassian weapons and defensive systems. But they could only produce small numbers of these. Another example being the Obsidian Order's Keldon Cruisers. The Dominion's help solved the Cardassian's economic issues which in turn allowed the Cardassians to finally mass-produce their most advanced designs, like the OWPs, and made their fleet competitive. Without a competitive Cardassian Fleet the Dominon would never have had the success they had in 2373-2374.
💯💯💯
This is the analysis the video should have been!!!
I got the impression the Cardassians were relatively resource poor, and their ships reflected that. Like Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan, they had to prioritize some things over others.
True to an extent. The Galor space-frame itself is demonstrative of this. A common, rugged and robust frame that can be filled with new tech every ten years. As a consequence, the Galors could be built for different roles. Moreover, from an economic POV, it is an excellent idea. They built 1000s of Galors and they were easy to repair and refit. Like a T-34 or a Sherman tank.
Also, the Dominion's biggest contribution was introducing their highly advanced replicator technology to the Cardassians. This, in one fell swoop, along with teaching them advanced construction techniques, solved the Cardassians economic problems. The space of the Cardassian Union went from being only able to support a fleet built in numbers, but unable to support a uniformly advanced designs, to supporting the largest space fleet ever seen in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants of the highest technological types. The Cardassians are not stupid people. They are able to design advanced weapons and systems on par with the Federation, but couldn't mass produce it. Not unlike Russia today: The designed an outstanding Gen 5 fighter in the Su-57, and a great modern MBT in the T-14 Armata, but are too poor to build them in anywhere near the numbers to be competitive with the West. But then, here comes the Dominion who solves those problems for Cardassia and within a few months the Cardassian Fleet is vastly improved. The Galor II and III go from moderately good at their roles to utterly lethal to enemy ships of the same role. They produce cutting-edge systems like the Orbital Weapons Platforms and the Hutet.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Amazing analogy.
It may have underwhelming stats, but I've always liked the visual design of the Galor class
They were just fine for what they were: Galor Type 2 is a destroyer, a Galor Type 3 a medium cruiser. Perfectly fine against ships in their own roles and operate in packs against newer, more powerful ships like the Nebula or Galaxy. But, the Federation only has 24 Galaxys and maybe 100 Nebulas. The Cardassians have like 2000 Galors, and 400 Keldons. It more than evens out if fighting on a single front.
Thought it also looked a bit like a Sting Ray.
It totally does, tho. Good eye, I can't unsee it.
A rays body with an earwig's tail pincers!
Yeah, I never really though it looked like a wang.
i thought horseshoe crab
I would like to see videos on the Klingon Vor'cha and Neg'var class ships and the Jem Hadar bug ship.
Always fun keeping up with the Cardassians.
I mean manufacturing and tech of cardasia was like 100 years behind the federation so their solution to try to keep up was use a big spiral disruption beams and try to put 3 of your ships vs one fed ship, Yeah they were good vs mirandas cause well, they were about the same tech level in design.
One of the first times we see them, 2 or 3 of them get taken out by a Nebula class fairly easily. Had the Federation really considered them a threat and committed the same level of border forces as they had with the Klingons and Romulans, those early raids wouldn't have happened. They were only really a threat due to their tactics and willingness to engage in acts that even the Klingons would consider brutal and dishonorable.
@@dirtpirate36 The type of warship destroyed by the Phoenix was never revealed. And even if it was a Galor Type II, I would think that a heavy cruiser should be able to defeat a single destroyer rather easily. Remember, there is no single "Galor," they are a different variants that use a common space-frame ranging from destroyers to heavy cruisers, to the Keldon. A Galor Type II could take on an Excelsior with pretty good odds. Two Galor Type IIIs were a threat to the Enterprise D. One shouldn't evaluate an entire fleet based on one ship's performance when it was vastly overmatched. Moreover, one cannot properly assess a ship, or a fleet, without understanding its doctrine. There is a reason Starfleet didn't easily win the Border Wars: Whereas a Nebula Class Heavy Cruiser, or Galaxy Class battleship far outclasses a Galor Type II Destroyer, or even a Galor Type III medium cruiser, the numbers of Nebulas and Galaxys is exceedingly small compared to the number of 23rd Century legacy ships. When a Galor Type II can fight 90% of your ships on even terms, or the numerous Galor Type IIIs overmatch 90% of your fleet, it isn't favorable at all.
@@dirtpirate36 I mean, the Federation had problems with the Talarians and they were at a tech level lower than Archer's Enterprise, I think.
There isn't a single Galor. There are three sub-types using a common space frame: 1) Galor Type 2 is a destroyer, 2) Galor Type 3 is a medium cruiser, 3) Galor Type 4 is a improved version of Type 3 built during the Dominion War. Galor Type 2 is equal to an Excelsior, the Type 3 near to an Ambassador. Two Type 3s could take out a Nebula easily. IN any event, Cardassians are around 30 years behind, not 100. They are able to design super advanced systems, but with their economy they could not mass produce them. Example: The Dreadnaught missile. The Dominion fixed that and their entire Fleet was upgraded to high lethality.
Please profile the most beautiful ship in Star Trek … the Ferengi Marauder.
"We'll be watching."
"How nice of the Federation to make me feel right at home!"
I "won" a Galor Class in STO in one of the first mystery box dlc promotions. I put "won" in quotes because I purchased a 100 box pack to "win" it lol. I named it USS War Rocket Ajax in a nod to Flash Gordon and probably because I was high
Did you dispatch it to bring back his body.
Thank you, Trek Central and Lt. Commander Adam for another breakdown ! Full of details and just the right amount of pith, I greatly enjoy them. I haven’t searched, but was hoping to see similar briefs on Andorian and Tellurite ships if you please. Thank you and keep up the great work!
I freaking love the design of the galor/keldon class ships.
The Robin Resists Space Travel :
Every attempt to get it into orbit has failed lol
Wasn't that on an episode of Top Gear?
@@ThePathStrider He Knows!!! XD
I salute a fellow top gear fan :)
I have always seen the ship as a serious warship. It combines a beautiful design with strength and tradition/identity. The phaser power always struck me as very impressive.
Especially in the Dominion War. One-shot killing even Akira Class ships.
@@janeghudjars3496 that was a real dramatic / hard secene !
Love how Google subtitles call them the Kardashians, to be fair I would be more frightened of those people.
This ship seems to visually jibe with some of the other Cardassian stuff we see. Kinda aquatic animal, kinda "ankh-core" I definitely see that also. I think 2001 monoliths being black stonelike things makes the name "Obsidian Order" feel consistent too with the whole "strong cold pillars" thing. Oh and their holosuite decorations look like the alien from reddit to me. Maybe they're some other type of holo emitters that Quark installed later? I can see him going for the "Risian ultra HDR pleasure" model or something weird like that though
Another fantastic episode guys! I really love Lt Cmdr Adam's delivery... Surely he's levelled up enough for a fleet promotion by now 😉
I always liked the Galor. I generally thought it was maybe very slightly outclassed by 24th century Excelsior.
I quite liked the idea that the cardassians wouldn't usually use torpedoes, as maybe they don't have quite such ready access to the resources to manufacture them.
Many galor type. Common frame. Galor 1, 2,3. Galor 2 equal to Excelsior. Galor 3 twice as strong like Ambassador class.
OImportant factor is positioning. If Galor go for front atack, it is realy strong and Excelsior lose. But if you are out of range of main weapon Galor became only about 1/3 dangerous
@@tomaskops7119 True, and the main weapons are front and back with only medium SWDs everywhere else. Formations cover these weak spots. Although, they do have moderate 360 weapons coverage.
Outside of the Ambassador Class, the Galor is my second favorite ST ship...
I also like the other classes they designed for STO, in the Damar science dreadnaught, Ghemor Carrier and Detapa escort. Pitty they will never be seen in the show (although some of the STO models have appeared in the more recent series).
Gotta love how shields stop existing whenever there's a battle going on in DS9. Might be fun to do a video on the evolution of warfare throughout the star trek canon, and it's comedic de-evolutions in DS9 and the new CBS shows.
Keldon class next ?
Since mentioned herein, I think it's a no-brainer. Ya must!
one thing about the keldon class: it was only ever seen three, both times it was an illegal ship of the obsidian order. i never saw them outside of that context, so it really doesnt exist as a ship class.
@@matthewbarabas3052 But they do exist. And they are referred to.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 nope. the only mentions of a keldon class ships, and the only appearances are the obsidian order Keldons. theres no instance of it anywhere else, or in any other context. it exists only as a specially modified subclass used illegally.
@@matthewbarabas3052 Yes. Yes it does. This isn't a matter of debate. Dukat refers to the Obsidians as a superior variant to an already existing class. "Those are faster than any Keldon I've seen." -"Defiant." He didn't say "I have never seen that type of ship before." Moreover, the Keldon Class was a configuration Starfleet databanks were already familiar with as in the Maquis crew identified them on sensor information alone as a recognized class. Second, Keldons are also referred to as battlecruisers as opposed to the Galor Type II (Destroyers), and the Galor Type III (Medium Cruiser). In the episode "Valiant," the crew of the Valiant recall a battle with a "Cardassian Battlecruiser," that left them completely disabled. There are no other canon warships in that description except the Keldon as a heavier vessel than the Galor.
I always liked the Galor class. It looked distinct but still somehow grounded. It's the only ship that really is designed with form in mind first, then function (it is indeed supposed to resemble the emblem of the Cardassian Union, which, in turn, displays a hooded warrior from Cardassian mythology). Also, I always thought they used phasers, and it was nice to see another major power, other than Starfleet, using phasers rather than disruptors. Unfortunately, they're referred to as disruptors, so I guess Cardassian beam weapons are just phaser-colored disruptors. Disappointing.
Back then I thought it's nice to have rivalling faction with a broader spectrum than just conquest and military might, such as the Klingons and Romulans. But unfortunately, the Cardassians are just as military focussed. In many of the plots, Cardassians, Klingons and Romulans are mostly interchangeable.
You jest but I honestly think that if you attached a couple of wings and some greeblies then the Robin Reliant would make a very convincing spaceship.
To be fair to Picard, Cardassia had just been the aggressor in a frankly horrible multi-decade occupation on Bajor. You might think the Federation would have found a way to circumvent the prime directive in those decades but apparently this is not the case. Still, it makes sense someone like Picard would react that way in that situation
Honestly not going to lie, I like the ship in shape and color. Fits its people well.
Strangely, the video game "Birth of the Federation" had the Galor class on a par with the Sovereign/Vorcha/Warbird so in-line with the best to offer from each race. Everywhere else has it as a light to medium ship at best.
Should have been the Keldon.
perhaps a video on the andorian warship kumari or other andorian ships both before or after the formation of federation
Hey Cap'n Jack, you could make a ship breakdown of the Breen's favorite garbage scow as long as Leftenant Adam is doing the narration. Every time i hear his voice on a video, I know I'm in for a fun ride. Nothing against yourself, dear Captain, but ain't nobody better'n the good Mr. Adam. Compliments to the writers and all involved. it's always a pleasure!
I'm sure no offence will be taken. I naturally write with Adam's voice and idiosyncrasies in mind 😂
Magnificent work! Continuing the Cardassian theme, how about covering the cardissian automated missile encountered by the Voyager crew?
Actually, the Galor-class looks more like a King Cobra with it's hood flared out. Since, Cardassians look somewhat reptilian, I could see a more snake -like link, rather than a Pharoah link.
on another star trek site, it was hypothethised that the Galor class ships were weak, but the cardassians knew this, so they wanted to make a *lot* of it, so they can operate in packs.
A great Starship Captain once said: “Cardassians are like timber wolves, predators. Bold in large numbers, cautious by themselves, and with an instinctive need to establish a dominant position in any social gathering”
@@worfwednesday They love the high ground.
Galor Type IIs operate in packs as most destroyers do.
That was how the strategy game Birth of the Federation presented them. Unfortunately, it didn't stop the Cardassians from being consistently the weakest faction.
"Quantity has a quality all its own."-Stalin
You guys usually do sterling work, but this was a huge swing and a miss. You should watch Venom Geek, or especially Trek War's analysis. Venom sums it up best in his Galor video: *Sure, a Galor 2 or 3 isn't a match for the Galaxy or Nebula Class, and can only reliably destroy older ships like the Excelsior Class. But when most of your fleet is made-up of ships like the Excelsior Class, all of a sudden those Galors look a lot more effective in a war.* 1) You guys don't even talk about the Galor as actually being several different class of ship that uses a common, rugged space frame. *Galor Type 2s are destroyers. Galor Type 3s are medium cruisers.* 2) Using the Trager in the 'Wounded' as representative of 'Galors' is utterly meaningless since you're hyping a mismatch battle between a destroyer against a battleship. And this is canon, there are plenty of appearances of different Galor sub-types, and even conversations about their relative worth. 3) PLUS, the whole Cardassian Fleet is upgraded during the Dominion War. How did you guys miss that important change? 4) Also, tactical doctrine matters when talking about wars. Is it really hard to conceive of how and why the Cardassian-Federation Border Wars were not so one-sided? *The Galor Type 2 vs. Enterprise D battle is not the engagement you should be analyzing. It is a Galor Type 2, or even Type 3 vs. the Miranda, the Excelsior or Constellation Class fights that are more demonstrative because those ships make up like 85%-90% of Starfleet, not the few Galaxy Class ships, or the more common, but still scarce, Nebula Class.*
Absolutely. The upgrade the Cardassians fleet received during the Dominion war was significant. In the final season of DS9 we saw a Galor class warship destroy a fully shielded and undamaged Bird of Prey effortlessly, in one shot. Those primary phase disruptor banks in large Cardassian warships are seriously powerful by the end of the war.
Also why would a highly critical and extremely xenophobic Romulan Tal Shiar even have decided to take on a joint military operation with the obsidian order if they didn’t think they could be of any advantage in that scenario
To be fair, Excelsiors got their fair share of upgrades. The Lakota's upgrades show how Starfleet can continue to make old designs relevant. Except for the Miranda and Oberth classes, whom every adversary had their way with...😅
Firstly:
The Galor Class ks the Galor, there are no subtypes.
What there WAS however were writers and FX artists who never could stick to consistency.
Thats it. Yes you can watch venom geek and co and listen to them prattle one about their own little headcanon all day, does not make it accurate lore.
Sometimes cardassians are shit tier, sometimes they are formidable. They are the Bird of prey of opponents.
I dunno, I think a Robin Reliant vs. Klingon Bird of Prey space battle would be quite a fun episode!
I would like to see the Dominion Battlecruiser, as it always seemed very imposing and threatening to me. The design has always impressed me a lot. Was it also a lead ship of a group of ships? I would be interested in this information.
the galor class is a command cruiser class, like the galaxy class or the vor'cha or the d'deridex.
my favourite will always be the d'deridex....
it's not surprising a nebula class(which is a strike cruiser) could destroy a galor.
the cardassians were very particular in their ship design.
their ships were design to operate in formations. not for single combat.
Your comment is really under-appreciated. Moreover, as you note, because the Cardassians are particular about the ship type due to being resource poor, they designed a robust space-frame to be used by several different classes. This makes both construction and repair exceedingly easy. Like the Sherman tank or T-34 in WWII because of commonality of parts. The Cardassians could rapidly build Galors and they were modular. They could simply build the frame, and then put in the modules for the Type 2 or Type 3. Or put a backpack on it and build a Keldon. This allowed them to build 1000s upon 1000s during the Dominion War. Repairing them was also easy. Plenty of spare parts, every shipyard in the Union can handle them. This is how they so rapidly refit them after joining the Dominion. And it is a strong frame. Dukat's unshielded Galor Type 3 took 38 hits from three Birds of Prey and was still intact. And that was only the hits we saw, because it had also been fighting the Vorcha that cloaked to ambush the Defiant. Theoretically, the Cardie could just keep putting new components into the same frame for decades to come.
The 371 doesn't always seem to jive with what is on screen. Still, three or more constitutes "a wing" which was able to destroy a lone Nebula, probably with some skillful approach, Dominion sensors and other enhanced systems. It's interesting that is called a destroyer and a cruiser. Could it be there is a larger, more powerful command cruiser nearly 500m long, and a 371m destroyer that represents the older models?
Back in the Bridge Commander days the Galor was two steps shy of laughable. During the main game the Dauntless could spit in their direction and their shields would buckle. Then when you get assigned to the Sovereign, all you had to do was look in the Cardassian's direction and the Keldons and Galors would squeal, wet themselves, and warp away. With multiplayer or just doing custom PvE lobbies even a single Bird of Prey could handle several without much fuss. Fastest way to kill the Keldons, the Galors, and eventually the Hybrids were to just sit under their ventral shield and aim for the "grating" covering the engineering section, you could collapse their ventral shield and pop their warp core with a single photon salvo and a couple phaser blasts. Was only slightly harder with the Hybrids as they weren't near as cumbersome and could actually maneuver a bit.
The cardassians definitely hsd photon snd plasma torpedo technology. Dd9 hsd them and orbital weapons platforms
That "because of course he had" :)
I lol'd when i turned on the captions. I'm sure the mispelling was intentional 😂
KEEPING UP WITH THE
CARDASSIANS
Gab es sichtbare Unterschiede um ein Schiff der Galor Klasse dem Obsisianischen Orden zuzuweisen? Ebenso muss es doch mehr geben als Hideki, Galor und Keldon...
8:04 No they transported him to Risa Minimum Security Camp D3-b. I believe it was for a 2 year sentance.
He was actually on an episode of Discovery Channel's RISA LIFE... What? It was good!
I always wondered how the Cardassians could ever put up much of fight with the Galor class. Cpt Maxwell sure didn't have trouble trolling them with his baby Galaxy class a Nebula.
he absolutely made scrap out of everything he met with the phoenix
a nebula class is a strike cruiser.
a galaxy class is a command cruiser.
they serve completely different functions.
a better opponent for a group of nebulas would be a group of keldons.
a single keldon is at a disadvantage against a single debula, as per cardassian design philosophy.
Galor Class Type 2 is a destroyer. Of course a Nebula destroyed it. Nebula is a heavy cruiser. A Galor 2 is equal to an Excelsior but fight in packs of 3-4. A Galor 3 is twice as powerful as Excelsiors. Problem is in the Fed-Cardie War, Nebulas and Galaxys make up like 5% of Starfleet. 85-90% are like Excelsiors, Mirandas, Constellations etc. Galor 2s are equal and Galor 3s superior. On the balance the Cardassians have tons of Galors all of which are at worst equal to 90% of Starfleets old ships, and many time with the Galor 3 superior. To really inflict damage on Starfleet all the Cardies have to do is run from the odd Galaxy and Nebula and then single out old ships which they can take. Since the War was fought on Cardassia's front-door they could choose their battles. That is how the War got bloody.
@@sabin97 Someone gets it. A pre-war Keldon was just shy of a Nebula in power. The Obsidian Order Keldons were about equal. Dominion War Keldons were superior to the non Tactical-Pod Nebulas. A TNG Galor Type III was weaker than a Nebula, but two Type 3s could probably take a Nebula. In 'Waltz,' Three Galor Type 2 destroyers destroyed the Nebula Class USS Honshu.
@@janeghudjars3496
yeah, cardassian ship design was more oriented on formations. that's why their ships could fire accurately from all angles.
Awesome breakdown! Just subscribed. Looking forward to more vids!
Thanks for the sub!
- Jack
One of the things that drives me nuts in Trek Strategy games is they make the Cardassians a faction capable of going 1v1 against the Federation when that isn't even remotely the case canonically. they were always a second-rate power with delusions of glory (that happened to punch a little above their weight in spying and running prisons), which is the whole reason they made a Devils bargain with the Dominion (Yeah sure we'll be riding the Dominions coattails the whole way, but when we occupy Earth, we can just punch some Humans around to feel better about it!)
Game play balance, otherwise the Federation would eventually dominate with tech. Plus, there aren't many fleshed out alien species in Trek to make into a playable species/empire.
Not at all. You cannot measure the enemy based on the performance of their destroyers against your battleships or heavy cruisers. You have to measure them by class. So in a fleet where 90% of the ships are legacy 23rd Century that is evenly matched by a Galor Type II, or outclassed by the numerous Galor Type III, all of a sudden it isn't such a cake walk. To draw blood, the Cardassians don't need to even bother engaging the sparse numbers of Nebulas, Galaxys or Ambassadors: They only need to target the smaller and older ships to inflict damage. In a democracy any losses, even if they're just cannon fodder Mirandas or Constellations, is keenly felt.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 No, you don't measure them by the performance of a handful of ships. You measure them by the fact that the supposedly "devastating" war they fought with the Federation was so small scale by Federation standards that much of the Federation didn't even seem to know there _was_ a war and Starfleet saw it as nothing more than a border skirmish.
They were never a serious military threat until the Dominion got involved, and even then the Jem'Hadar (and later Breen) were the ones everyone feared.
@@vegeta002 It doesn't matter if it is small-scale to the Federation. It doesn't mean it wasn't costly. The Vietnam War was small scale in terms of total commitment by the US, but it was still devastating. Both sides considered it devastating according to dialogue, moreover, just because it wasn't mentioned all the time does not mean it wasn't costly. Moreover, the treaty itself attests to the lack of a favorable outcome for the Federation insofar as it was a Border Skirmish that lasted 15 years and resulted in the Federation ceding territory. The US fought a war in the Middle East for 20 years and there was zero impact on the home-front save those personally effected. It was far from being devastating for the average US citizen, but it was, in fact, devastating and that was only an insurgency. A conflict between a near-peer and a superpower even on a limited front would result in losses in the millions and economic damage. I could go into an entire essay about how people completely mischaracterize how the War went and how it was fought. Most people haven't served in the military. Most people are not policy analysts or historians. I am all three and I can tell you that a war between the Federation and Cardassians would be a lot more costly than the casual fan would think. People have little idea what the true cost of war is: a great example being the impact of the Russo-Ukrainian War of today.
"They were never a serious military threat until the Dominion got involved, and even then the Jem'Hadar (and later Breen) were the ones everyone feared."
Your implication is that Starfleet had its way based on the performance of the Galor Class variants in general. I.e., they aren't a threat to Starfleet. That is categorically incorrect. The Federation clearly thought enough of the Cardassians as a threat to not want another conflict, and to cede territory. The Cardassians had no problems with 90% of the vessels in Starfleet that were older legacy ships and that is a major tactical issue that becomes a strategic one. it's like saying, "well Russian tanks can only destroy our M60s. 90% of the tank fleet is M60s, but the 10% that aren't will sort things out." It doesn't work that way.
To your second point, the Cardassians were plenty feared during the Dominion War and their fleets and OWPs gave plenty of trouble to the Alliance. The upgraded Cardassian Fleet was more than a match for the Klingons or Starfleet. The Galor Types II and III, and the new build IVs, were often superior in offensive capability to Alliance peers in the same role, and more than effective against even capital ships when engaged in squadrons. Galor Class destroyers and cruisers are repeatedly seen delivering single catastrophic beam attacks that destroyed Birds of Prey (B'Rel), Jem Hadar attack ships, Breen Frigates, and even medium and heavy Federation cruisers (Excelsiors, Steamrunners, Akiras). The heavy Federation losses in "Sacrifice of Angels," along with "Tears of the Prophets" clearly demonstrate that. Again, it comes down to doctrine and tactics. The Dominion Fleet features large capital ships and attack ships with nothing in between. The Cardassians provided 100% of the heavy cruiser, cruiser, destroyer and strike cruiser roles for the Dominion. Without them they could not engage in combined role combat. Moreover, during the first half of the War when the Dominion had its most success, the Cardassians were extremely effective and plenty feared.
@@vegeta002 Again, I have to disagree with you. One does not trade territory for peace if one does not at least respect the enemy. The Cardassians are a militaristic society and even though their territory is smaller than oh, the Romulans for example, they control as many systems in half the space. Given their military proclivities, that makes them a rather dense military power on an outlying border of the Federation. The US is far more powerful than the North Koreans, it doesn't mean the North Koreans couldn't inflict a lot of damage on the US and its allies. The Cardassians are more like the British or French are vis-a-vis the United States or USSR during the Cold War. They have a strong relatively modern, though not cutting edge, military. No, they don't have the overall power of the US or USSR for global power projection, but on a single front in their own garden? Yes, they are dangerous and can defend themselves. Also, contrary to your assertion, in several episodes of TNG Starfleet personnel refer to the Border Wars as quite horrific and costly. That it isn't mentioned all the time is not indicative of much. There appear to be random conflicts that are barely mentioned. Such as the Tzenketh War and the Tholian Conflict.
Ah Lt Commander Adam.
The right personality for these ship breakdowns.
Perfection.
i really liked the cardassian ships. id love to see a new show set like 5 years post domminioon war. where the cardassians can be part of the "good guys"
from a modal maker perspective 24 thousand dollars for a bit of aluminum and paint, that it has a signature is great though.
This is all well and good, but can't you put the Galor class into the more standard measurement of OPM* so we can get a better understanding of it?
*Oberths (destroyed) per minute
I really love how the Cardassians were handled in Star Trek Online. After the DOminion War they became more peaceful and I assume didn't keep too large of a military, with many Galors and Keldons being put in storage. Eventually Cardassian extremists called the True Way who wanted to return to a more militaristic Cardassian Union would swell in huge support with many recruits and because of how weakened the government was, many Galors and Keldons would be stolen by the True Way, the government was so weak it needed to call on aid from other powers like the Federation and Klingons to help deal with the True Way, there's many references as the STO story plays out of how weak and vulnerable the Cardassians are as more and more threats pop up near their space. Eventually by the time of the Hurq threat the Cardassians have built up new ship types such as he Damar Class. What I like about them is that they feel right for the Cardassians as like a symbol of a new rebirth for the people, as the True Way continue to make use of the older Galor and Keldon classes, the government is fielding still in small numbers, but enough for defense, fielding ships named after more positive influences like Damar and Ghemor being 2 Cardassians who wanted change for their people, or the Detapa Council which was a civilian focused part of the government but had little if no power over the military and sadly had been disolved by the military when the Cardassians joined the Dominion as allies. These 3 ships also focused more on versatility and tech advancement over stronger weapons or sheer numbers, being a Science Dreadnought, Escort, and Carrier.
Well said. I enjoyed reading this. During the video here I was thinking to myself, "I would love to hear Adam just roll right into the True Way conflict and the resulting during- and post-conflict ships". I'm so glad you were here. Cheers!
@@ArtistryBranson I love what STO's story does, at times it feels like a better continuation of Star Trek's story then the New Trek material. I HATE DIscovery, but really like how it's implemented into STO.
>These 3 ships also focused more on versatility and tech advancement over stronger weapons or sheer numbers, being a Science Dreadnought, Escort, and Carrier
Except they are also all intel spec ships, and that means surgical strike: the biggest of Pew Pew attacks and encouraging you to just put the biggest guns possible on the ships
The Galor had the opposite of "plot armor" in TNG. Every time one showed up, it was dealt with so trivially you were left wondering exactly what threat the Cardassians really could actually be.
And then in DS9 they one-shotting ships like nothing. And not just small ships either. It is confusing. But, if one really looks at the material, not that surprising. Unfortunately, the video was made by people with only the most casual knowledge on the topic.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 That just sums up Star Trek, it's the biggest problem with the franchise
Me: "He told me to be like Q."
My wife: "NO."
Me: "But he said..."
My wife: "NO!"
Me: "Picard was more fun."
My wife: "What did *I* say?"
The Spoonheads never stood a chance
I like how they look, but I don't get what the cardassian joke would be? But seeing a Nebula class starship destroy a cardasian warship with one shot, they really can not be strong. DS9 kinda removed shields and made all ships basically on par with each other, Galaxy, Nebula, Galor, D'Derix, dominion tiny attack ship....k'vort...they all had the same power or no shields. One or the other.
The shields were there, they still made the odd mention of them even in battles where they didn't show up.
They just didn't seem to want to animate them, especially in large scale battles where hundreds of shields would be constantly flaring up every second.
Personally I consider the Galor class to be roughly analogous to a mid-tier heavy cruiser. Something able to throw hands with Excelsiors and smaller quite handily, but not something that could throw hands with modern UFP front line ships like thr Ambassadors onwards.
Depends on the Galor. They are not all the same. Like Shermans and T-34s they were improved steadily over the years, but thanks to the common frame and parts, Galors were mass produced by the 1000s. The Galor Type 2 is a destroyer. The Galor Type 3 a medium cruiser. The Galor Type 2 did the fighting in the Border War. It was a match for the Excelsior Class and superior to the Miranda and Constellation. Problem for the Federation is that the Cardassians had 1000s of Galors that can all destroy 90% of the ships in Starfleet while there were relatively few Galaxy and Nebula class ships, or even Ambassadors. The Cardassians bridged the gap a bit when the Galor Type 3 came out in 2365. It was superior to the Excelsior by a fair margin. One Galor Type 3 was not a match for a Nebula. But two Type 3s had an advantage over the Nebula. And then the Dominion came and helped the Cardassians mass-produce advanced tech and refit their entire fleet. All of a sudden, the Galor Type 3 could one-shot a Bird of Prey, or anything smaller than a cruiser. And then even cruisers. In 'Sacrifice of Angels' a Steamrunner is one-shotted. And an Akira too. Three Galor Type 2 Destroyers destroyed the Nebula Class USS Honshu in 'Waltz.'
It was better than anything the federation ever put out. And captain Picard can't even count. He honestly thought there were four lights. ~me, a cardassian
Since this episode was covering a Cardassian Warship heavily featured in DS9, how about doing an episode on DS9 itself, which I believe was possibly a Cardassian space station in the Star Trek lore?
Just how powerful was DS9? I remember it was attacked by a very large Klingon fleet, it was outlined that it had received Federation weapons and shield upgrades but that those upgrade were far from complete and yet it absolutely WRECKED the Klingon fleet in a really wonderful fight scene for its time.
So I wonder was DS9 almost that durable and powerful before Starfleet took over, or if it was due to the partial Starfleet upgrades? And just how far were those upgrades taken, including when the Dominion took control of it.
One of the coolest looking ship designs Star Trek ever came up with.
Didn't the Dominion upgrade Cardassian ships when they joined?
Si. Heavily.
Yes they did. New reactors, power-relays, SIFs, better beam emitters. Huge leap in effectiveness. The space of the Cardassian Union went from being only able to support a fleet built in numbers, but unable to support a uniformly advanced designs, to supporting the largest space fleet ever seen in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants of the highest technological types. The Cardassians are not stupid people. They are able to design advanced weapons and systems on par with the Federation, but couldn't mass produce it. Not unlike Russia today: The designed an outstanding Gen 5 fighter in the Su-57, and a great modern MBT in the T-14 Armata, but are too poor to build them in anywhere near the numbers to be competitive with the West. But then, here comes the Dominion who solves those problems for Cardassia and within a few months the Cardassian Fleet is vastly improved. The Galor II and III go from moderately good at their roles to utterly lethal to enemy ships of the same role. They produce cutting-edge systems like the Orbital Weapons Platforms and the Hutet.
I don't remember anything in canon about that, since the Cardassians were just cannon fodder to the Dominion (and going by the Female Changelings words in the final episode, were going to be exterminated after the war anyway).
If any upgrades _did_ happen, it was probably in the novels. Which are non-canon.
If you haven't done the D'deridex yet, make it so!
2:07. Start
Your awesome dude and awesome video be safe out there big fan of star trek
❤️🖖
The Galor class performed acceptably well against he century old Miranda class.
The Galor was good against an ancient design in the Miranda class? Not sure that is a good thing.
Since the first time I saw it on screen the Galor has been one of my favorite ST alien ships
Correction... the armaments on Galor-class ships typically included at least eight spiral-wave disruptors. not Phasers, according to the DS9 Tech manual
Has anybody done any background on the First Federation ship, The Fesarius?
I'm concerned with the frequency of mentioning the Reliant Robin. If there ever was a car that wasn't really, it's the Reliant Robin.
Gul MASET LOOKS LIKE GUL DUKAUT😂😂😂😂😂with a questionable goatee
And don't forget the weird space baseball helmet 😂
From Beta canon the Galor's were very formidable during the Federation/Cardassian war as shields on Starfleet vessel's at the time had troubles stopping the Cardassian's spiral wave disruptors.
This is true! The Galor Type 3 had twice the shields of the Excelsior. The Cardassian weapons became much more powerful after the Dominion helped them design more powerful reactors and emitters.
People also forget that just because a Galor 2 or 3 can't take a Galaxy 1-on-1 doesn't make them weak. They were outclassed. But starfleet is like 90% older ships, not Galaxys and Nebulas. And Galors can take those out fine.
i just hope for the federation seke dont do a treaty of versailles on the cardassian after the war wich i love to see lower deck cover in a season if not season 5 perhaps future seasons love to see what happend with cardasia
I'm pretty sure any disarmament on the Cardassian part is going to have more to do with how wrecked they were by the war.
Obscure here I know. But you know that commercial/meme of the guy sliding down a snowy slope on his belly eating something (chocolates?) as he slides. Yup, Gala.
phaseres? not spiral wave disruptors?
I remember in STTNG episode a Galor class ship was attacking Enterprise and they disabled it quite easily. Riker even said “What are they doing? They are no match for us.”
Galor Type 2 is a destroyer. They were no match. Galor Type 3 is still only a medium cruiser. But, consider how few Galaxys there are and how many Galors. In a war they ignore the big ships and destroy they smaller, older ones to draw blood.
I'd like to see a video on the various Xindi ships.
Noted!
The Cardassians were a speed bump to the Federation. Most of the Federation didn't even know the war was happening. The reason the Federation was in a hurry to sign a treaty was because the Enterprise had encountered the Borg and realized they had other stuff to do besides beat Cardassia like a rented mule. Kind of like the War of 1812. Major point in US history. To the British Empire it was Tuesday.
What year was the war of 1812 ?
What year was the war of 1812 ?
I always compared the galor and atrox classes to the pioneer pendant from that wing commander movie.
4:10 "ch ch ch ch cherry bomb!"
Do the D'Deridex next.
The Cardassians were always an interesting group for me. In every other instance, rival alien races to the Federation were always formidable in their own right. The Klingons, the Romulans, the Borg and so on. But the Cardassians were never really a serious threat unless they were backed up by someone else. They were, despite their best efforts, a second-rate power in the grand scheme of things, and their attempts to rise higher only caused them to sink to their lowest ever point. It's a fascinating journey to see 🤔
How did the Federation and Cardassian war last more than 10 minutes ? The Cardassian ships are so weak, it should have never been a problem dealing with them !
Federation bureaucrats and Federation complacency i would imagine.
The federation barely cared.
The Galaxy class and nebula class were launched in the 2360s, but the war officially ended in the 2350s. So think what the Cardassians were primarily up against? Mirandas and Excelsior Classes, and maybe some Ambassador classes (which don't have a particularly great reputation either). You might have seen some of the wolf359 galaxy family but they obviously were never in large numbers (but may have contributed to the actual end of the conflict). Remember that Gul Dukat with a beard is just stunned at the capabilities of the Galaxy and Nebula, so the cardassians were not fighting these literal next gen ships during the war.
The Federation apparently didn't take them seriously; Starfleet called the "war" a border skirmish and much of the Federation didn't even seem aware they _were_ at war.
To the Cardassians it was the Federation Cardassian War. An all out fight for the future of Cardassia ,the definitive moment of a generation. To the Federation it was a near meaningless border conflict that they signed a treaty to end because they had other sh!t to do and were too nice to blow Cardassia back to whatever came before the Stone Age. Kind of like the War of 1812.
This is also the only physically larger combat ship we have ever seen a Defiant Class engage without immediately needing to start repairs and creative tactics.
This is an indicator of the real fighting power of the Defiant Class... it can only stand up to smaller modern ships and has trouble even there if the opponent is operating in groups. Hence the Sabre Class and similar classes outmoding it immediately in its intended fleet defense role. Still, it makes a useful system patrol and defense ship.
The Galor Class seemed to have had a very inconsistent showing of strength which varied from one episode and series to another.
In one scene it was an extremely tough and hard hitting warship that posed a serious threat even to a Galaxy back the Galaxy was the flagship and "meta" to the franchise, and yet in another scenario it's shown as an almost weak warship of no match to its rivals.
I recall an episode where a rouge Federation captain completely spanked a Galor within seconds with a Nebula Class starship... and the Galor even had the Nebula's shield frequency to bypass it.
So it's kinda hard to understand what sort of power and durability the writers meant the Galor to have but I'd guess it was at least to be considered a more powerful warship than than a common Klingon B'rel BoP and a touch more powerful than a Miranda, possibly on parity with an Excelsior. However, all those mentioned ships were shown with decades of upgrade and variant differences throughout Star Trek so that comparison can be taken with TNG era in mind and not Dominion War era where lots of said Starships were retrofitted etc.
I always thought the Romulus secretly supplying them to weaken the UFP
Ah, the cardi-Galor, bane of the Miranda and Oberth alike, unless...
1 Miranda + 2 Oberth versus 1 Galor outcome ...
Cardesians: Posible victory, after a narow, hardfought battle between 2 superpowers
Romulans: bored
Klingons: hunting down escape pods
Bajorans: We want this technology, for psuedo religeous reasons
Dominion: Weak alies
Breen: Refuses to take off their helmet, hiding laughter
Federation: Stop damaging our paint job
Borg: Do not asimilate, this will make us dumber
8472: Target practice for the kids, the very weak must perish too
Look at all those glorious Mirandas!
I was starting up sto when watching this, thought there was something wrong with the music for a second
The Galaxy class was actually VASTLY superior to the galor, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it would take 3 galors to bring down 1 galaxy
How many destroyers do you think it takes to bring down an Iowa Class? They aren't even in the same class, the comparison is relatively meaningless. How about the Miranda vs. the Galor II? That is the proper comparison. Not such a favorable match-up for the Federation is it?
I always thought they had design cues from snakes and scorpions.
I'm going to avoid the rabbit hole of this ship's deflector color this time and just suggest, perhaps, the Jem'Hadar Attacker. Pretty much the most ubiquitous ship of the entire war.
Hey guys its ADAM again! Let's get the popcorn and enjoy! 😉
I love the fleet battles in Star Trek. There is something brilliant about a utopian society being forced to conduct combat that I appreciate.
the galor was built for close formation group attacks, single ships are kinda crap against anything.
so u used sto soundtrack at the start, i hear it i know it and usually is when you warp at DS9, i see what you did there
So why does USS Discovery look so much like a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser? Discovery mentioned that both were designed by the same guy but id like a more detailed explanation 🙂
I may have a question, how big is a Klingon war bird, what about you, so I recorded at least 3 small ones from the movie, it had a crew of 10, then from the Brel generation movie, it is about 50 Crews and I got a bigger one and in one episode of TNG the Ferengi had two huge ones
Could the Galor class be like the sherman of ww2, quick and easy to make and maintain. If you cant build better, build lots and overwhelm the enemy...😁😁😁
How about a look into Species 8472 ships