This is a fantastic mech and extremely smooth with top notch engineering. I'm very excited to be putting this mech into one of my new builds. Thank you majdq8 for the post, love what you do and thank you Mario over at ErmesSub for the opportunity to try out this mech .
Hi guys, hi majdq8... In principle a very good idea. The new Bleutec trigger uses the same principle, after 6 month using I can tell you that this system is also not perfect. You need to lube the roller between the sear and trigger on regular intervals, otherwise the system gets hard and you encounter the same problem on this system due to friction effects of the roller itself. I cannot say anything about about the Ermes system, as I have not used it, but as it is the same system, I guess you have the same issues with it. I like how Abellansub faces this problem by not using steel on the trigger, instead they used a synthetic superior plastic, this way scratches are avoided and no loss in accuracy in guaranteed... Cheers
Yes the Abellan trigger works very well as is, and it does not suffer from galling as the trigger sear is plastic ... plastic will slide over metal with no problems. As for the front roller not turning due to lack of lubrication, I haven't seen that problem on any of my Bleutec guns, but with time it is possible that this could happen. It would be an easy fix though ... just put it on a rubber wheel and let it spin and it should be fine. For lubrication, we are thinking of using a special diamond coating on the roller and pin, this makes the surface almost friction free even without lubrication. If there is a technical problem there usually is a technical solution!
Hi Majdq8, agree on your thought regarding general problems solving of engineering... just as a reference these problem did only occur on a big 145 oceanborn, with 3 sigalsub rubbers pulled to extremes. same as with 4 rubbers, although i dont like recoil on this system... Have a good day:)
Lol ... yes I had a fully loaded OB 145 in my hand, but I decided to not shoot it as I thought it would bust my wrist. The handle needs to be modded before I shoot that gun. I wasn't aware that it had problems with the roller on big loadings. The trigger here will certainly have no problems with even a 6 band loading. The frame is 2mm SS rather than what is on the OB which I think is 1.5mm.
Great review, great video as always! Again a moment of enlightenment 😁 so from the comment i understand, that the double roller reverse ermes is much more better than the new abellan stock trigger. I was planning to order a denton 110. Now after getting the hint of abellan usa using such double roller reverse ermes trigger, i would order from usa (im in europe). But i looked up a dedicated abellan usa homepage, found none… any clue how i may reach out to abellan usa for such order ? Worst case, i would buy from eu and mount the ermes trigger myself, but i rly would not like to do dmg to the gun, since i’m unexperienced in modifying. Anyway, thank you again for creating and spreading knowledge :)
Hey! I was wandering if you could explain the differences between this specific mechanisms and between the evo back double roller or the future double roller? i gues that except the measures there is a difference
hi majdq8 really appreciate the time and effort you put in testing your guns, I am in the process of acquiring a raptor 95 from bleutec and would like to use a 8mm devoto shaft with it I have both 14mm and 16mm primeline bands from spearitco wondering if could recommend using 3 14 or 2 16 it will be used in dirty water on barramundi in australia hence the shorter gun, i was going to get a roller until I saw your pathos roller test, your thoughts would be appreciated
Well ... 8mm shaft is simply too heavy for 2 or even 3 bands on such a small band stretch. The Raptor 95 probably has about 105cm of band stretch ... so best performance would be with a 135 to 145cm shaft (check what shaft fits well) @ 7mm. I would not recommend you go over 7mm with that size gun as velocity will suffer. With 2 x 14mm @ 360% you will get awesome performance and fantastic accuracy. I guarantee you will love that setup. Of course if hunting large strong fish at closer distance, you can go for a heavier shaft and 2 x 14.5mm bands @ 380%, but your range will be about 1m to 2m less.
majdq8 Thankyou very much my friend you are a legend in the Spearfishing world, i recently brought a Denton 120 after seeing your test and haven't looked back, thanks very much for your feedback
Thanks for the kind words! Please subscribe and get your friends to subscribe as there will be some really nice tests soon with lots of good information.
Hello majdq8! Thanks for your videos! They are really informative! Have one question! What is the difference in "Back" triggers, they have 4 options Double Roll, Double Roll short trigger, Classic and Classic Short trigget. I cant find any info on the website. Thank you in advance !
I'm having trouble following the latest and greatest updates to the Pathos D1 and D2s and ermessub DR triggers. What's the absolute best handle and trigger combo we can buy? I'm thinking of buying a pathos 120 and an 82, either the Laser open pro (D2 handle) or open pro (D1 handle), unless you have a better recommendation. Surprisingly, the LASER open pro is $65 cheaper than the open pro right now...Is it worth getting the carbon version? Thanks in advance
The Ermessub Evo Back Roller trigger was tested at around 300kg. This trigger has the same back roller design but with a front roller ... so it would probably be similar in performance. I don't think this has been tested to failure yet, but 300kg is way above any loading anyone would put on a gun. You can see that test here ruclips.net/video/q1mOo5R9N-g/видео.html
Thanks for your reply, and just to clarify for the band stretch as I know sometimes stretch % can be referenced in different ways i.e engineering strain as change in length/unit length, as opposed to stretch factor which is just the ratio of stretched length to relaxed length (I think this is your case of 380%)? Thanks again, Scott
Unfortunately this will not fit in a Pathos D'Angelo II handle as it is about 14.6mm wide. It is possible you could make a custom design in a similar fashion for smaller pipe guns ... need to think about that!
You used an Ermes trigger for the Pathos Sniper. It seems similar to this one with a different way of mounting. Probably the internals are different too - with only back roller? I guess it will be easy to change it to double roller ... or maybe not? Anyway when I measure my Pathos Sniper handle and compare it with the dimensions of the Ermes Sub Mechanism Double Roll taken from a site ( Technical specifications: Housing width 14.5 mm, overall length 81 mm, burglary 61.5 mm, depth 23 mm, burglary) it could be possible to mount it with minor modifications in to a D'Angelo 3 handle. Since you have both ( the gun and the trigger ) could you do that check for me, please.
I think it is possible to mount a similar trigger to a Pathos D'Angelo II or III ... and maybe with some modifications a D'Angelo 1. The space is different though, and this trigger was built for powerful 3 banded setups and thus is using 2mm thick SS housing rather than 1.5mm. The idea was to first get this working well in a conventional way ... now to adapt it for various different guns (including pipe guns) it is just a matter of designing the trigger to fit those sizes. The concept would be of course the same.
Thanks a lot. It should be nice to really have a version made for the D'Angelo 3 handle. An easy take old out - put new trigger in. Pathos Sniper is a popular gun now and I personally think a trigger made specifically for that gun will be a bestseller. And 1.5 mm housing is perfect - no one will put more than 2*14.5 anymore :)
Uma obra de arte. Acho q 3x14 ele fica leve com menos coise e um bom alcance. quanto fica esse gatilho com envio p Brasil? um abraço amigo, aguardo a resposta.
Hi Majdq8, Thank you very much for all your efforts and time you put on those test and specially for sharing with us, spearos world wide. A question, When you gonna post a new video ? Hoop everything is alright with you and your family. Take care my friend. Greetings from Holland. Ary dos Santos
Thanks for the kind words! All good here, but doing these videos takes a huge amount of time. Will probably do some more videos once I find something interesting or useful.
@@majdq8 Hi Majdq8, Thanks you very much for your reply bro ! I am glad to know everything is ok with you and your family, in these crazy times. I know first thing first, sometimes and spearfishing kan wait ! I woud like to ask you 2 questions my friend : * What is the diameter carbon sleeve do you use for pipe guns application ? * what brand of floating puty epoxy you use for the handel modification ? ( can't find it in Europe) I I already have 5 eremes sub futures DB and 2 DB long and 3 short.for the all my spearguns (majority RA spearguns) conversion witch I will post in the future. Take care bro stay healthy, and till next time. Ary dos Santos.
Marey - I've also heard from Majd that the latest Denton's regular trigger is very good and not subject to galling, tho a trifle laggy it's a consistent lag time. My first test shots are this Friday night in a pool testing session with my spearo shop, can't wait to try it out. The ocean has been too rough to even get wet for real, as well as low viz . Do you have the latest Denton? how you like it? Any rigging tips?
The Abellan trigger has a plastic trigger sear which does not suffer from galling or scratching. At first I used to wonder why on earth someone would put plastic on a trigger ... but the test of time has shown that was a wise decision and was done to avoid the exact problems mentioned in the beginning of the video. The Abellan trigger does have a long trigger pull which needs some time to get used to, but I certainly don't think that you need to change the trigger on the Abellan unless the long trigger pull bothers you. Of course this trigger on the Abellan makes the gun ridiculously easy to shoot accurately with and on the Albacore it is a match made in heaven!
Leigh Anderson good luck with the test. I have the older Denton 120 with a 140 8mm sigalsub coned shaft with 2 16mm salvimar acid green rubber cut to 360%. will be changing it soon to 7.5 shaft with 2 15mm cressi scarlet
I've got 8mm threaded shafts on order from Hunt for my slip-tip setup. Majd was thinking on 7.5mm shaft but didn't have a shaft handy for that test. hmmmm... why the cressi switch?
I don't recommend the Ermessub short as for some reason it doesn't shoot as accurately as the long. There must be a technical reason for that, but I am not sure what it is.
I did have to shave off a little from the inside of the trigger pocket, but really was nothing too difficult. The shaft seating on the track is usually the most problematic area, but with this trigger you can control how high or how low the trigger seating is by simply adding a few washers before putting the screws. This way the mating is absolutely perfect with the track.
ha ha....I was just watching a video of yours when you replied...Anyway ! Thank you for your answer but what i really meant is the stainless steel parts suffer from corrosion due to contact with carbon fiber ...?
I never so this as a problem, generally speaking if you have different types of stainless steel you will get galvanic corrosion as there will be a voltage drop between the 2 metals. If you are worried about corrosion the best thing to do is put a nice polish on the stainless steel, this tends to reduce corrosion. With stainless steel it is always a compromise, if you use 316 SS it is very good with corrosion resistance, but is quite soft. Now if you go with 304 SS, it is much stronger, but much more prone to corrosion. With this trigger though, it is extremely easy to get the trigger out and give it a thorough cleaning. It only takes unscrewing 3 screws to get the trigger off the gun..
I didn't test with sand in the mech, you certainly don't want sand inside your mechanism. Sand could wedge the shaft sear and not let it re-set properly when you are loading ... which can cause a dangerous misfire as you are loading. This is true with any mechanism and is no different here.
majdq8 You so right. but it can cause. and another roller mechanism can suffer more from sand and this ermessub will suffer less I think. Love it's construction!
Yes sure, the back roller sear is "free floating" and not connected in axle so chance of debris affecting performance is less than a normal trigger. But I still wouldn't want to have sand inside if it can be avoided. Even a quick dip in the sea and dry firing the mech while upside down and then doing same other side ... it should clear the mech of any sand. Or use a hose with running water inside the mech.
There are now two versions of this mechanism, mechanically the same, but one is a little bit longer than other...and there is also option with safe lock (brake) , you can see it on manufacturer's website, but unfortunately I couldn't find it at any dealers' online shop....I bought the shorter version of this mechanism last year and regretted I didn't buy one more, but with longer body, for my next build......the smaller one looked ridiculously miniature: when I opened the package, it looked like a souvenir or something, and demanded a lot of carving and sanding work around the handle part of a speargun, but once I mounted it on thr gun, it was completely different story... it's a serious piece of equipment,. easily and softly handling 140kg of pulling force .....I would just appreciate if someone shares the info where can I find the bigger version (and safety lock gadget ) .BRGDS
Try contacting Mario from Ermessub. He just finished a new version that is much better than the older version. Better more robust and higher precision box, EDM wire cutting for parts (10x higher precision than before) , plus much better auto reset of line release with the largest percent of opening aperture of any trigger ... and a super smooth auto reset of line release. Also the front roller has moved up from 4.4mm to 6mm ... meaning you should be able to load it at much higher loads with no problems! He has that now in 2 sizes (maybe even 3). If you like the older version you will love this new version.
@@majdq8 Thank you very much ! I will conract him as soon as possible, and in the meanwile i found a bigger trigger offer at italian ebay website .... "il verzione di griletto lungo" and will ask also them if it's a newer version. BRGDS
It should be able to handle any shaft size. The back end of shafts are cut down so that they can fit in the mechanism. So even a 9mm shaft can enter with no problems.
hi i have been trying to find the ideal setup for my spearguns here in Norway. usually i use a 1x20MM rubber stretched to about 250% but thinking about changing to a double rubber setup what would you recommend? i have a pathos laser open 100 and a Imersion 90 challenger with reverse trigger.
For shafts at 7mm and less, by far the best option would be 2 x 14mm small ID ... much easier to load and much more velocity. Here are two tests which can give you more data ruclips.net/video/FSK4HkkimXk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/UBNw4PLqPfI/видео.html
thank you i will try this setup only small id i could find was the sigal extreme they are 14.5 though and i usaly use a 6.5mm spear but i think it might be okey maybe with a 330%-350% stretch
The sigal bands are quite hard and I am assuming Norway is cold ... so best would be a softer band material like the Primeline small ID. Try the new Cressi small ID bands (made also by Primeline) or best would be to get the Primeline original from the US or someone who sells them in europe. For a 6.5mm shaft the bands are not critical as you don't need much to get the shaft going at Terminal Velocity. If you only have the Sigal 14.5mm then just reduce the loading to around 340% and should be good.
5 celsius (41 F) now in the winter and usaly not more then 15 celsius (59F) in summer so yeah maybe they might get hard. i will try for now and order some primeline next time =) thank you again for the tips
In my testing, by far the best results for shaft around 6.5mm to is 2 x 14mm small ID bands that caliper around 13.5 to 13.8 mm. This will give you much higher velocities than 14.5mm or heavier bands with much less effort ... even if you use the same band stretch. Generally speaking a 6.5mm shaft is something that will be used at very close range or 4 meters distance or less from the tip of the shaft.
If you go on instagram you will see many of the top guns today are using this. There is a new version that will be out very soon which is a huge improvement over the original version. It is made using much higher precision which allows much higher tolerances and smoother auto reset of the line release. On the older version the line release needed manual help to reset it for it to work really well.
Interesting question and I actually thought about doing something like that. I think you could fit in a long DR trigger but probably need some modifications. But the new C4 trigger with the line release on the back is quite good. For sure it doesn't have a back roller but the front roller works very well and I would consider it one of the better triggers out there. That is the reason I haven't really gone through with such a mod.
majdq8 could you please reconfirm which ermes trigger model to buy for the urukay 120? I will be doing some modifications of course. Could you point me to the right one to buy? www.ermes-sub.net/double-roll-wings.html#
Yes much better. The new Abellan trigger is too wide to allow for mono in mechanism ... with only 1.5mm box walls this will deform the walls of the box with high loads and I wouldn't recommend it with anything more than 2 band loads. With the older Abellan trigger with narrower space between the walls things are much better. But this trigger is a big improvement over both, especially the latest version which is dramatically better than the one tested here.
@@majdq8 I hear that Ablellan USA is offering their Abelallan guns with Ermes sub trigger now? What about Abellan Europe? On their websites I still see older pictures with stock triggers.
@@SavageDragon999 Abellan USA will use a custom Ermessub trigger designed specifically for Abellan. Also they have a totally different handle which is rotated and designed to absorb recoil correctly. Plus some changes in the muzzle and trigger guard. Abellan Europe I think are pretty much the same and nothing has changed except the wider trigger (which I feel is not as good as the older Abellan trigger).
@@majdq8 So if one is to order an Abellan gun it's best to order from the US or do you think Abellan EU would custom fit an ermes sub into their gun if the customer asks them to?
@@SavageDragon999 I think the Abellan USA is just a much better deal. It is a Teak gun rather than Mahogany ... plus it has the latest Ermessub trigger ... plus handle is rotated and fixed ... plus better muzzle etc....
excellent review an d info as always. On the matther of triggers, i would like to ask, as you've already tested it, what would i gain by changing the trigger mechanism of the urukay 120 with the new c4 one with the side release?
The new Urukay 120 trigger is much better as it has the line release at the back where it will not interfere with the shaft on exit. With the old trigger I had accuracy problems as the shaft would hit the line release that was on the stock, and that would cause the shaft to become slightly unstable and thus the shot would not be as accurate. Both will work, but with the new trigger you will have better accuracy.
This is a modified Abellan Albacore 130. Modification was made to the handle to control recoil and left shift. Also changed the default Abellan trigger to this Ermessub Double Roller trigger. Also added a Carbon Fiber cover on top of the wood.
I am not sure, you need to check the width and length. Any trigger can be fit on any gun, the problem is whether it is worth the effort. The trigger width is 14.6mm and length of trigger cavity should be 62mm. Of course you also need to check track depth when putting the trigger and adjust for that.
The trigger here is pinned by 3 top screws. I think there will be a version where there will be side pins, but I doubt those pins would fit your gun ... but a mod would be possible to drill matching side pins. Need to wait till that trigger comes out.
please tell us when it comes out,the mod is nothing for having this sensetivity of the trigger,here in greece a lot of us need a trigger like this,the only one so far is the c4 trigger but itw very big to put it in an aluminium gun.thanks
I highly recommend it ... it is the best reverse trigger on the market today (easily!). You still have to have a good and properly designed gun platform and a good shaft to band setup to get the results you see here. Properly shaped handle that is very high and near the CG of recoil push back is essential to high performance and good straight shaft flight, but a trigger is the heart of a speargun and needs to break in a predictable and repeatable manner.
No not at all. The C4 trigger has a front roller (which is excellent) but doesn't have a back roller to absorb shock during loading. Also C4 trigger uses several plates that seemed high carbon and not corrosion resistance ... so you need to really make sure you take care and oil it and not let corrosion hurt things. Don't get me wrong, I love the C4 trigger and highly recommend it (especially with built in line release) ... however the Ermessub double roller trigger is much better IMHO ... of course I could be biased because I was involved in the Ermessub double roller development so don't take my word for it and give both a try.
Really? You got corrosion in the c4 trigger? Curious because i got none in mine, and i beleive c4 states that is all stainless steel mechanism? According to your experience, is the updated version of the c4 trigger any different from the older one?
I never checked for corrosion on my C4 trigger, but I always oil it. Stainless Steel comes in many forms, if you look at a dive knife, the strong knives are made from a different SS than the soft knives that bend easily. Both are SS but one has a higher carbon content and thus is more prone to corrosion ... but it is stronger and thus more useful. In the end you have to compromise and C4 decided (correctly I think) that it is better to get harder and stronger sears with a harder metal which is not as corrosion resistant as 316. It is good idea to always flush your C4 trigger with fresh water and let it dry and then spray WD 40 inside.
Cutting edge. Great test and thank you for sharing. I will be testing these triggers soon.
This is a fantastic mech and extremely smooth with top notch engineering. I'm very excited to be putting this mech into one of my new builds. Thank you majdq8 for the post, love what you do and thank you Mario over at ErmesSub for the opportunity to try out this mech .
Crazy accuracy!
Great mechanism and wonderful test! Complimenti
Amazing content. You must have dedicated quite some time to learn and test all this. I am impressed. Thanks for sharing brother.
haha rob, Im starting to see you in all these gun videos! Looks like you're 2 years ahead of me 😅
Very good video....
Hi guys, hi majdq8... In principle a very good idea. The new Bleutec trigger uses the same principle, after 6 month using I can tell you that this system is also not perfect. You need to lube the roller between the sear and trigger on regular intervals, otherwise the system gets hard and you encounter the same problem on this system due to friction effects of the roller itself. I cannot say anything about about the Ermes system, as I have not used it, but as it is the same system, I guess you have the same issues with it. I like how Abellansub faces this problem by not using steel on the trigger, instead they used a synthetic superior plastic, this way scratches are avoided and no loss in accuracy in guaranteed...
Cheers
Yes the Abellan trigger works very well as is, and it does not suffer from galling as the trigger sear is plastic ... plastic will slide over metal with no problems. As for the front roller not turning due to lack of lubrication, I haven't seen that problem on any of my Bleutec guns, but with time it is possible that this could happen. It would be an easy fix though ... just put it on a rubber wheel and let it spin and it should be fine. For lubrication, we are thinking of using a special diamond coating on the roller and pin, this makes the surface almost friction free even without lubrication. If there is a technical problem there usually is a technical solution!
Hi Majdq8, agree on your thought regarding general problems solving of engineering... just as a reference these problem did only occur on a big 145 oceanborn, with 3 sigalsub rubbers pulled to extremes. same as with 4 rubbers, although i dont like recoil on this system...
Have a good day:)
Lol ... yes I had a fully loaded OB 145 in my hand, but I decided to not shoot it as I thought it would bust my wrist. The handle needs to be modded before I shoot that gun. I wasn't aware that it had problems with the roller on big loadings. The trigger here will certainly have no problems with even a 6 band loading. The frame is 2mm SS rather than what is on the OB which I think is 1.5mm.
Great review, great video as always! Again a moment of enlightenment 😁 so from the comment i understand, that the double roller reverse ermes is much more better than the new abellan stock trigger. I was planning to order a denton 110. Now after getting the hint of abellan usa using such double roller reverse ermes trigger, i would order from usa (im in europe). But i looked up a dedicated abellan usa homepage, found none… any clue how i may reach out to abellan usa for such order ?
Worst case, i would buy from eu and mount the ermes trigger myself, but i rly would not like to do dmg to the gun, since i’m unexperienced in modifying.
Anyway, thank you again for creating and spreading knowledge :)
Hey! I was wandering if you could explain the differences between this specific mechanisms and between the evo back double roller or the future double roller? i gues that except the measures there is a difference
hi majdq8 really appreciate the time and effort you put in testing your guns, I am in the process of acquiring a raptor 95 from bleutec and would like to use a 8mm devoto shaft with it I have both 14mm and 16mm primeline bands from spearitco wondering if could recommend using 3 14 or 2 16 it will be used in dirty water on barramundi in australia hence the shorter gun, i was going to get a roller until I saw your pathos roller test, your thoughts would be appreciated
Well ... 8mm shaft is simply too heavy for 2 or even 3 bands on such a small band stretch. The Raptor 95 probably has about 105cm of band stretch ... so best performance would be with a 135 to 145cm shaft (check what shaft fits well) @ 7mm. I would not recommend you go over 7mm with that size gun as velocity will suffer. With 2 x 14mm @ 360% you will get awesome performance and fantastic accuracy. I guarantee you will love that setup. Of course if hunting large strong fish at closer distance, you can go for a heavier shaft and 2 x 14.5mm bands @ 380%, but your range will be about 1m to 2m less.
majdq8 Thankyou very much my friend you are a legend in the Spearfishing world, i recently brought a Denton 120 after seeing your test and haven't looked back, thanks very much for your feedback
Thanks for the kind words! Please subscribe and get your friends to subscribe as there will be some really nice tests soon with lots of good information.
Hello majdq8!
Thanks for your videos!
They are really informative!
Have one question! What is the difference in "Back" triggers,
they have 4 options
Double Roll,
Double Roll short trigger, Classic and Classic Short trigget.
I cant find any info on the website.
Thank you in advance !
I think you can get that information from the website or try contacting Mario in the "contact" address of website.
I'm having trouble following the latest and greatest updates to the Pathos D1 and D2s and ermessub DR triggers. What's the absolute best handle and trigger combo we can buy? I'm thinking of buying a pathos 120 and an 82, either the Laser open pro (D2 handle) or open pro (D1 handle), unless you have a better recommendation. Surprisingly, the LASER open pro is $65 cheaper than the open pro right now...Is it worth getting the carbon version? Thanks in advance
Great vídeo man! I bought an American shaft by mistake, You think I will have problems with it staying in place while loading? Thanks
Any load testing to failure for an idea of breaking load, and also a working load limit on the new design? Thanks.
The Ermessub Evo Back Roller trigger was tested at around 300kg. This trigger has the same back roller design but with a front roller ... so it would probably be similar in performance. I don't think this has been tested to failure yet, but 300kg is way above any loading anyone would put on a gun. You can see that test here ruclips.net/video/q1mOo5R9N-g/видео.html
Have you gotten your hands yet on new cressi cherokee mech/gun made of nylon/glass instead inox?
Thanks for your reply, and just to clarify for the band stretch as I know sometimes stretch % can be referenced in different ways i.e engineering strain as change in length/unit length, as opposed to stretch factor which is just the ratio of stretched length to relaxed length (I think this is your case of 380%)? Thanks again, Scott
Instablaster.
Can you please provide the music until 4:00 in your video? Cant find it anywhere. Thank you!
It is called "Euphoria" by Electro Fusion www.dropbox.com/s/8s74abuw8d7xpl5/Euphoria.mp3?dl=0
Very impressive.
would be awesome if they make one for D'angelo II handle.
Unfortunately this will not fit in a Pathos D'Angelo II handle as it is about 14.6mm wide. It is possible you could make a custom design in a similar fashion for smaller pipe guns ... need to think about that!
You used an Ermes trigger for the Pathos Sniper. It seems similar to this one with a different way of mounting. Probably the internals are different too - with only back roller? I guess it will be easy to change it to double roller ... or maybe not? Anyway when I measure my Pathos Sniper handle and compare it with the dimensions of the Ermes Sub Mechanism Double Roll taken from a site ( Technical specifications: Housing width 14.5 mm, overall length 81 mm, burglary 61.5 mm, depth 23 mm, burglary) it could be possible to mount it with minor modifications in to a D'Angelo 3 handle. Since you have both ( the gun and the trigger ) could you do that check for me, please.
I think it is possible to mount a similar trigger to a Pathos D'Angelo II or III ... and maybe with some modifications a D'Angelo 1. The space is different though, and this trigger was built for powerful 3 banded setups and thus is using 2mm thick SS housing rather than 1.5mm. The idea was to first get this working well in a conventional way ... now to adapt it for various different guns (including pipe guns) it is just a matter of designing the trigger to fit those sizes. The concept would be of course the same.
Thanks a lot. It should be nice to really have a version made for the D'Angelo 3 handle. An easy take old out - put new trigger in. Pathos Sniper is a popular gun now and I personally think a trigger made specifically for that gun will be a bestseller. And 1.5 mm housing is perfect - no one will put more than 2*14.5 anymore :)
Uma obra de arte. Acho q 3x14 ele fica leve com menos coise e um bom alcance. quanto fica esse gatilho com envio p Brasil?
um abraço amigo, aguardo a resposta.
Queria saber também. Mas acho que eles não mandão para o Brasil
Eles não respondem
Hi Majdq8,
Thank you very much for all your efforts and time you put on those test and specially for sharing with us, spearos world wide.
A question,
When you gonna post a new video ?
Hoop everything is alright with you and your family.
Take care my friend.
Greetings from Holland.
Ary dos Santos
Thanks for the kind words! All good here, but doing these videos takes a huge amount of time. Will probably do some more videos once I find something interesting or useful.
@@majdq8
Hi Majdq8,
Thanks you very much for your reply bro !
I am glad to know everything is ok with you and your family, in these crazy times.
I know first thing first, sometimes and spearfishing kan wait !
I woud like to ask you 2 questions my friend :
* What is the diameter carbon sleeve do you use for pipe guns application ?
* what brand of floating puty epoxy you use for the handel modification ? ( can't find it in Europe) I
I already have 5 eremes sub futures DB and 2 DB long and 3 short.for the all my spearguns (majority RA spearguns) conversion witch I will post in the future.
Take care bro stay healthy, and till next time.
Ary dos Santos.
Can we buy one the trigger mechanism
What is the type of bands?
How to order trigger mechanism
Hey Majd thanks for the new test video. Would my 2017 Denton 120 benefit from the Ermessub trigger? ... if it can fit in the body of the gun OK?
Leigh Anderson the mech on the denton is absolutely fine and crisp, why change it?
Marey - I've also heard from Majd that the latest Denton's regular trigger is very good and not subject to galling, tho a trifle laggy it's a consistent lag time. My first test shots are this Friday night in a pool testing session with my spearo shop, can't wait to try it out. The ocean has been too rough to even get wet for real, as well as low viz . Do you have the latest Denton? how you like it? Any rigging tips?
The Abellan trigger has a plastic trigger sear which does not suffer from galling or scratching. At first I used to wonder why on earth someone would put plastic on a trigger ... but the test of time has shown that was a wise decision and was done to avoid the exact problems mentioned in the beginning of the video. The Abellan trigger does have a long trigger pull which needs some time to get used to, but I certainly don't think that you need to change the trigger on the Abellan unless the long trigger pull bothers you. Of course this trigger on the Abellan makes the gun ridiculously easy to shoot accurately with and on the Albacore it is a match made in heaven!
Leigh Anderson good luck with the test. I have the older Denton 120 with a 140 8mm sigalsub coned shaft with 2 16mm salvimar acid green rubber cut to 360%. will be changing it soon to 7.5 shaft with 2 15mm cressi scarlet
I've got 8mm threaded shafts on order from Hunt for my slip-tip setup. Majd was thinking on 7.5mm shaft but didn't have a shaft handy for that test. hmmmm... why the cressi switch?
Would this fit a pathos sniper? Ermes Sub Double Roll Future Short Trigger Grey Short Trigger
I don't recommend the Ermessub short as for some reason it doesn't shoot as accurately as the long. There must be a technical reason for that, but I am not sure what it is.
@@majdq8 Okay thanks. so I should buy the long version fits the pathos sniper?
@@majdq8 could you tell me which one fits?
@@neilrobins3329 send me ur email and will help uou.
Congratulations for your videos.You do not face problems from the connection of ss with the carbon fiber on that specific gun?
I did have to shave off a little from the inside of the trigger pocket, but really was nothing too difficult. The shaft seating on the track is usually the most problematic area, but with this trigger you can control how high or how low the trigger seating is by simply adding a few washers before putting the screws. This way the mating is absolutely perfect with the track.
ha ha....I was just watching a video of yours when you replied...Anyway ! Thank you for your answer but what i really meant is the stainless steel parts suffer from corrosion due to contact with carbon fiber ...?
I never so this as a problem, generally speaking if you have different types of stainless steel you will get galvanic corrosion as there will be a voltage drop between the 2 metals. If you are worried about corrosion the best thing to do is put a nice polish on the stainless steel, this tends to reduce corrosion. With stainless steel it is always a compromise, if you use 316 SS it is very good with corrosion resistance, but is quite soft. Now if you go with 304 SS, it is much stronger, but much more prone to corrosion. With this trigger though, it is extremely easy to get the trigger out and give it a thorough cleaning. It only takes unscrewing 3 screws to get the trigger off the gun..
Excelente
How & where can i order this trigger is it possible to order and how much.thanks
How long is your rubbers?what stretch%?pls reply
amazing video good
excellent review! the best roller trigger!
I think it will not suffer from sand too. isn't it?
I didn't test with sand in the mech, you certainly don't want sand inside your mechanism. Sand could wedge the shaft sear and not let it re-set properly when you are loading ... which can cause a dangerous misfire as you are loading. This is true with any mechanism and is no different here.
majdq8 You so right. but it can cause. and another roller mechanism can suffer more from sand and this ermessub will suffer less I think. Love it's construction!
Yes sure, the back roller sear is "free floating" and not connected in axle so chance of debris affecting performance is less than a normal trigger. But I still wouldn't want to have sand inside if it can be avoided. Even a quick dip in the sea and dry firing the mech while upside down and then doing same other side ... it should clear the mech of any sand. Or use a hose with running water inside the mech.
There are now two versions of this mechanism, mechanically the same, but one is a little bit longer than other...and there is also option with safe lock (brake) , you can see it on manufacturer's website, but unfortunately I couldn't find it at any dealers' online shop....I bought the shorter version of this mechanism last year and regretted I didn't buy one more, but with longer body, for my next build......the smaller one looked ridiculously miniature: when I opened the package, it looked like a souvenir or something, and demanded a lot of carving and sanding work around the handle part of a speargun, but once I mounted it on thr gun, it was completely different story... it's a serious piece of equipment,. easily and softly handling 140kg of pulling force .....I would just appreciate if someone shares the info where can I find the bigger version (and safety lock gadget ) .BRGDS
Try contacting Mario from Ermessub. He just finished a new version that is much better than the older version. Better more robust and higher precision box, EDM wire cutting for parts (10x higher precision than before) , plus much better auto reset of line release with the largest percent of opening aperture of any trigger ... and a super smooth auto reset of line release. Also the front roller has moved up from 4.4mm to 6mm ... meaning you should be able to load it at much higher loads with no problems! He has that now in 2 sizes (maybe even 3). If you like the older version you will love this new version.
@@majdq8
Thank you very much ! I will conract him as soon as possible, and in the meanwile i found a bigger trigger offer at italian ebay website .... "il verzione di griletto lungo" and will ask also them if it's a newer version.
BRGDS
we havent seen a video of yours for over a year 🙁🙁
Hey love dis mech, what's the smallest and largest size shaft will fit without problems?
It should be able to handle any shaft size. The back end of shafts are cut down so that they can fit in the mechanism. So even a 9mm shaft can enter with no problems.
majdq8 great! thanks I'm sure getting me a couple
good evening sir, magkano isang set nang spear gun mo? thanks
hi what's the name of the shotgun you're using? Thanks
hi i have been trying to find the ideal setup for my spearguns here in Norway. usually i use a 1x20MM rubber stretched to about 250% but thinking about changing to a double rubber setup what would you recommend? i have a pathos laser open 100 and a Imersion 90 challenger with reverse trigger.
For shafts at 7mm and less, by far the best option would be 2 x 14mm small ID ... much easier to load and much more velocity. Here are two tests which can give you more data
ruclips.net/video/FSK4HkkimXk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/UBNw4PLqPfI/видео.html
thank you i will try this setup only small id i could find was the sigal extreme they are 14.5 though and i usaly use a 6.5mm spear but i think it might be okey maybe with a 330%-350% stretch
The sigal bands are quite hard and I am assuming Norway is cold ... so best would be a softer band material like the Primeline small ID. Try the new Cressi small ID bands (made also by Primeline) or best would be to get the Primeline original from the US or someone who sells them in europe. For a 6.5mm shaft the bands are not critical as you don't need much to get the shaft going at Terminal Velocity. If you only have the Sigal 14.5mm then just reduce the loading to around 340% and should be good.
5 celsius (41 F) now in the winter and usaly not more then 15 celsius (59F) in summer so yeah maybe they might get hard. i will try for now and order some primeline next time =) thank you again for the tips
In my testing, by far the best results for shaft around 6.5mm to is 2 x 14mm small ID bands that caliper around 13.5 to 13.8 mm. This will give you much higher velocities than 14.5mm or heavier bands with much less effort ... even if you use the same band stretch. Generally speaking a 6.5mm shaft is something that will be used at very close range or 4 meters distance or less from the tip of the shaft.
What are the guns this trigger have been putted in to ?
We need to know in which guns this trigger matches
If you go on instagram you will see many of the top guns today are using this. There is a new version that will be out very soon which is a huge improvement over the original version. It is made using much higher precision which allows much higher tolerances and smoother auto reset of the line release. On the older version the line release needed manual help to reset it for it to work really well.
How much trigger enteristed .order
Buenas pruebas... esperamos tiros en cámara lenta
How can i order this trigger
hi majdg8! which emersub back roller trigger would fit in an urukay 120 if i want to replace thw old trigger?
Interesting question and I actually thought about doing something like that. I think you could fit in a long DR trigger but probably need some modifications. But the new C4 trigger with the line release on the back is quite good. For sure it doesn't have a back roller but the front roller works very well and I would consider it one of the better triggers out there. That is the reason I haven't really gone through with such a mod.
majdq8 could you please reconfirm which ermes trigger model to buy for the urukay 120? I will be doing some modifications of course.
Could you point me to the right one to buy?
www.ermes-sub.net/double-roll-wings.html#
So this trigger mechanism is much better than Abellan's stock trigger ?
Yes much better. The new Abellan trigger is too wide to allow for mono in mechanism ... with only 1.5mm box walls this will deform the walls of the box with high loads and I wouldn't recommend it with anything more than 2 band loads. With the older Abellan trigger with narrower space between the walls things are much better. But this trigger is a big improvement over both, especially the latest version which is dramatically better than the one tested here.
@@majdq8 I hear that Ablellan USA is offering their Abelallan guns with Ermes sub trigger now? What about Abellan Europe? On their websites I still see older pictures with stock triggers.
@@SavageDragon999 Abellan USA will use a custom Ermessub trigger designed specifically for Abellan. Also they have a totally different handle which is rotated and designed to absorb recoil correctly. Plus some changes in the muzzle and trigger guard. Abellan Europe I think are pretty much the same and nothing has changed except the wider trigger (which I feel is not as good as the older Abellan trigger).
@@majdq8 So if one is to order an Abellan gun it's best to order from the US or do you think Abellan EU would custom fit an ermes sub into their gun if the customer asks them to?
@@SavageDragon999 I think the Abellan USA is just a much better deal. It is a Teak gun rather than Mahogany ... plus it has the latest Ermessub trigger ... plus handle is rotated and fixed ... plus better muzzle etc....
excellent review an d info as always.
On the matther of triggers, i would like to ask, as you've already tested it, what would i gain by changing the trigger mechanism of the urukay 120 with the new c4 one with the side release?
also...does the new trigger mech fits without any work? or needs dremel and some work from user to be installed?
The new Urukay 120 trigger is much better as it has the line release at the back where it will not interfere with the shaft on exit. With the old trigger I had accuracy problems as the shaft would hit the line release that was on the stock, and that would cause the shaft to become slightly unstable and thus the shot would not be as accurate. Both will work, but with the new trigger you will have better accuracy.
Does it fit in the Urukay like it fits in Mr Dark? Or needs extra work?
Will this mech just fit right in there without modifications
Nice
Stunning 😃👍👏👋
Salut vous vendez se type de treger lock
If i can shot that far on my spear and its accuracy i can feed all my neighborhood with a fish that I catch....great man
What is your speargun ? Nice review !
This is a modified Abellan Albacore 130. Modification was made to the handle to control recoil and left shift. Also changed the default Abellan trigger to this Ermessub Double Roller trigger. Also added a Carbon Fiber cover on top of the wood.
Pwede bang umorder nyan
How much
Saan poh pwede maka bili ng ganyan para sa pana? At ano poh ang pangalan niyan
hello sir.. what is the diameter of the roller? very nice trigger mech.
it is 7mm
@@majdq8 I want buy one
can i put this on to my mares viper pro or it is only for wooden guns,i love my gun but i want the sensetivity of this trigger.thanks
I am not sure, you need to check the width and length. Any trigger can be fit on any gun, the problem is whether it is worth the effort. The trigger width is 14.6mm and length of trigger cavity should be 62mm. Of course you also need to check track depth when putting the trigger and adjust for that.
please tell me if the Horizontal pins come out to cut and put biggers to hold the mecanisme to the handle.thanks
The trigger here is pinned by 3 top screws. I think there will be a version where there will be side pins, but I doubt those pins would fit your gun ... but a mod would be possible to drill matching side pins. Need to wait till that trigger comes out.
please tell us when it comes out,the mod is nothing for having this sensetivity of the trigger,here in greece a lot of us need a trigger like this,the only one so far is the c4 trigger but itw very big to put it in an aluminium gun.thanks
It's a power speargun . I want your speargun . Nice
Nice video, new friend here!
como hacerle para pedirle un disparador de esos???
Quanto custa um deste?
best gun ever
i think ill buy it.
I highly recommend it ... it is the best reverse trigger on the market today (easily!). You still have to have a good and properly designed gun platform and a good shaft to band setup to get the results you see here. Properly shaped handle that is very high and near the CG of recoil push back is essential to high performance and good straight shaft flight, but a trigger is the heart of a speargun and needs to break in a predictable and repeatable manner.
amigo estoy en R.Dom... con quien puedo pescar
hi help me to buy trigger to make my own gun
👍👍👍
como faço para compra sistema de gatilho
You can get it direct from the ermessub website www.ermes-sub.net/
I think it not perfect on this keep release line it move little, All access is perfect.
Is this roller trigger similar to the way the c4's trigger work?
No not at all. The C4 trigger has a front roller (which is excellent) but doesn't have a back roller to absorb shock during loading. Also C4 trigger uses several plates that seemed high carbon and not corrosion resistance ... so you need to really make sure you take care and oil it and not let corrosion hurt things. Don't get me wrong, I love the C4 trigger and highly recommend it (especially with built in line release) ... however the Ermessub double roller trigger is much better IMHO ... of course I could be biased because I was involved in the Ermessub double roller development so don't take my word for it and give both a try.
Really? You got corrosion in the c4 trigger? Curious because i got none in mine, and i beleive c4 states that is all stainless steel mechanism? According to your experience, is the updated version of the c4 trigger any different from the older one?
I never checked for corrosion on my C4 trigger, but I always oil it. Stainless Steel comes in many forms, if you look at a dive knife, the strong knives are made from a different SS than the soft knives that bend easily. Both are SS but one has a higher carbon content and thus is more prone to corrosion ... but it is stronger and thus more useful. In the end you have to compromise and C4 decided (correctly I think) that it is better to get harder and stronger sears with a harder metal which is not as corrosion resistant as 316. It is good idea to always flush your C4 trigger with fresh water and let it dry and then spray WD 40 inside.
hm sir?
ชุด ไกร ยิ่งแจ๊ว ดี แยกขาย เอาทำประกอบเอา แจ๊วดีจัง นะจ๊ะ
Hello Im from indonesia 🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
Keren 👍🇮🇩
Hii
You send other country...
My country is INDIA. You send me...
I will pay all shipment charge.
Possible....?
Please reply me
demasiado poder
si vas por presas grandes y/o distantes la potencia de disparo sera siempre bienvenida - mientras haya exactitud en los disparos :)
По моему я один здесь русский)))
Ткачёв русский, а ты маларос ))
I just use meandros. Problem solved
como hacerle para pedirle un disparador de esos???
You can get these triggers direct from Ermessub at www.ermes-sub.net/double-roll.html
como hacerle para pedirle un disparador de esos???