The Right and Wrong Way to Make a Rival - Pokemon Edition
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Time to talk about video game Rivals and how to do them and not do them. This time with a focus on Pokemon rivals.
Original Video on Rivals: • The Right and Wrong Wa...
Editing helped by / waverunner5642
/ fanfickleentertainment
Link to the music cover used in the Montage: • Pokemon「Gotcha!」Bump o...
Link to the artist who drew Kamen Getting punched by Silver: / lok_maar
Footage of the games used: / mixeli
0:00 - Musical Montage
0:33 - Introduction
1:41 - Changes
3:29 - Blue and Silver: Jerks?
6:05 - Bad Rivals Friendly Rivals
10:40 - Rivals by Battle
15:14 - Casualization
18:14 - Fight me
18:18 - End Credits
Wanna contact or support me?
Patreon: / mangakamen
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G-Mail: MangaKamen@gmail.com
#pokemon #pokemonscarletviolet #nintendo 
Игры
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"Nothing personal, Jimbo."
I don’t have a horse in that race (what do you think of Pokémon rivals), because I never played a single Pokémon game.
Also why does your person look way more feminine?
I need Zexal, Kamen
Can you talk about kamen rider rivals aswell as a future video?
Great video, but that last music track in the video that was playing was pretty distracting because of the loud chanting in it (it was hard to not hear it over you talking because of headphones).
I think the rival needs to fit the theme of the game somewhat. You're not going to have someone like Hau in games like Black and White.
^this
I think this comment practically encapsulates how I feel about discussions about the rivals. It really depends on the story and themes the game is trying to tell.
When you mean “good” do you mean this character HAS character and an arc that fits the game? Or did this character’s existence managed to be a challenge for the duration of the game? Or did YOU want this character to have a lasting impact on you the player? The answers to these questions really depend on the player and what they are looking for, and to me makes it impossible to determine what is a GOOD rival?
It’s obvious that there is some care and thought taken into most of the rivals (i say most because obviously XY suffered here). And obviously sometimes (characters like Hau and Hop) the rival probably isn’t meant to be a challenge to the player for some purpose.
@@lillianbygone8507 I hate the name "Lillian"
Isn't Bianca kinda Hau-ish, although not that happy go lucky, but still someone whose not too strong, but is optimistic.
@@zjzr08 Yeah, but Bianca has a more complex character arc going on, having to deal the disapproval of her father.
Her arc is more similar to Hop's if anything, right down to ending up as a Professor.
@@Jeff_Biden then why comment? It's not like you picked out their name
Something cool that you didn't mention about Barry is his pokemon. If you don't know he gets a heracross, and a snorlax in his team. Two rare pokemon you're only able to get from honey trees. Something that you'd have to wait 6 hours for to get a pokemon to be in there. Which shows Barry's growth to not always rush things.
The way his Staraptor develops as well, focusing on solely on Quick Attack early on, then developing it to use the infamous Double Team/Endeavor combo, a more defensive strategy that relies on waiting for the right moment to quickly strike.
Or you could say he ran headlong into some trees and got lucky, lol
I love Barry
Out of all the Pokemon rivals my favorites are Silver, Gladion, and N. Seeing Silver start out as a literal criminal and then watching him become a better trainer and person felt really nice. Gladion ran away from home and his insane mom to protect type null, which would eventually evolve into silvally because of the bond he has with it. I love that air of mystery that N has around him and that moment where 11 year old me as blown away at the revelation that he was the boss of team plasma despite being such a cool guy
I agree
I Also like silver they just need to give him a good motive like he wants to be better than his dad or actively tries to get rod of team rocket and leave his personality the same and develop over the game.
Silver was a bit more than a criminal. He was angry that his father, Giovanni of Team Rocket turned out to be a weak Pokemon Trainer. Silver used to admire him, but when Giovanni left, Silver felt angry, disillusioned and determined to be a better Trainer than his pops, which is why he hates weak Pokemon, weak Trainers and Team Rocket.
@@LightStreak567 Giovanni is actually implied to be a neglectful dad actually. He immediately left his son after losing to red, and in pokemon masters it was stated explicitly. He is a rival who used to be a criminal not a criminal character
Something I'll always love about Silver: His character arc is shown in his team, with the fact he has a Crobat in the last fight with him. A Pokémon that only can only be got by evolving from friendship.
Edit: Which MangaKamen mentioned. That's what I get for commenting before the video ends.
I think the best rivals are those that portray types of players.
- Gary is cocky because he's kinda good at the game. He loses at his highest point in order to learn humility.
- Silver treats Pokemon as discardable objects, only judges by power level. He learns that friendship and love are more important.
- Wally is a sad, sick child that starts playing the game as a distraction. He becomes stronger by facing adversity, and he begins to heal.
- Barry rushes through the game and doesn't read the dialogue. He has to start taking smaller steps and becoming more meticulous.
- Cheren is a minmaxing nerd, Bell gives up on being a contender. Cheren realizes that theory isn't all a champion needs and that he's better at teaching, Bell still enjoys the journey and life, but as an explorer and scientist's assistant.
- N is much more than just a rival tbh. But he still holds a mirror to the player because he loves Pokemon like they're real animals, and since the player is compelled to immerse themselves into the world, we're likely to feel strongly about them too. And N's lesson is that Pokemon also benefit from the bond with us (because I think it's a big part of Pokemon philosophy that the order of the human mind and consciousness can help Pokemon/nature spirits to bring out their highest potential).
- Gladion is cool but I remember little about him, except that he's an edgelord. Well, I was an edgelord as a teen, so he parodies me pretty well tbh.
Through their character arcs we can watch and learn as well. And rivals are a cautionary tale and philosophical opposition.
Wally and N my favorite. The green haired boys.
Nice comment btw.
we need a rival that is sort of ocd and wants his team to be extremely perfect with no flaws whatsoever. from wanting the perfect nature, to wanting a pokemon that has great, or leastwise decent coverage.
@@yoman5029 Paul, is that you?
@@yoman5029 i wanna see a "nuzzlocker" or a perfectionist
(I also wanted to include "speedrunner" but i guess Barry has already been like one)
The guy that discards Pokémon or tries to learn from his mistakes and constantly looks for a better one, resulting in him often swapping around his team (but depending on how the Pokémon performed, not just like Hop did putting some random Pokémon on his team)
And it doesn't have to be a jerk, just a tryhard player, someone who really doesn't like losing.
Them trying to get stronger is an interesting with a big potential for plot device.
Wanting to be stronger would be the reason for them to try and catch a legendary,
Or teaming up with the villain team just to have access to stronger Pokémon and finally defeat you (alongside some other ideas they and the villains share so it's not like the rival is entirely selfish)
It's interesting, because EVs can actually play into the whole idea of sticking by your Pokemon resulting in them becoming stronger. Or simply the idea of moves learned upon evolution... like an early-game Shroomish vs. a later caught Breloom lacking Spore (though newer gens may have to just pretend relearn isn't a thing).
Maybe they can go out and seek a bunch of stronger, newly-caught Pokemon to use for a team, but the ones they've stuck with, trained and evolved with for the longest, end up being strongest. Maybe rather than trying to find another "stronger" Pokemon to replace them with, they instead learn to bring out the strength of said Pokemon they've grown with, using more particular sets, etc. Maybe Pokemon that once used moves like Strength later use Return (if that move makes a return, ironically).
EVs and "competitive sets" on Pokemon are often seen as ways that people detach from Pokemon, seeing them as little more than numbers and stats. But I reckon a rival could prove that this doesn't necessarily have to be the case, while also teaching more players a lesson on how to bring out the strengths of their own favourite Pokemon.
The rival learn to appreciate and enjoy the time spent with them, regardless of how strong they are, but understands that it takes work from their end to bring out each of their individual strengths. @@Kyumifun
The Black/White trio of Cheren, Bianca, and N are my favorite rivals. While N also doubles as technically an antagonist, all of them have their own arcs that you actually see unfold: Cheren learns in his pursuit of strength that he can't do it all by himself and has to trust both his Pokemon and potential teammates in team battles (something that's so good it's actually REPEATED in Masters through the arcs of Lear and Paulo with different outcomes), Bianca tries to continue her adventure despite her father trying to bring her back home and yet still manages to continue thanks to Professor Juniper basically giving her the job of assistant and thus giving her father a good reason for letting his daughter see the world...
and then you have N, the very interesting guy who legitimately understands Pokemon, yet stands with the team that wants to separate them from humanity. Throughout the game he observes not just your, but all of his opponents' Pokemon, and sees that even when he wins, they have something he doesn't realize his own Pokemon that he only gathered around the area for each team also do for him, making him question his belief of separation being for the greater good, leading to the decisive battle, but just before that decisive battle YOU get the context of why N had his initial beliefs through interviewing his adopted sisters and... seeing his childhood room, and you can piece it all together that somebody intentionally gave him the wrong ideas.
Even onto the sequels AND Masters, these arcs are acknowledged and the characters have grown.
... as for least favorite, you very clearly went over them already: it's the XY "friend group", which are... really just a big pile of nothing.
@Honeycomb eevee Yep! ^^
I’m pretty sure Cheren asked Lear the exact same question Alder asked him and I loved that
Something I like about Hau and Gladion is how they serve as a proxy conversation between the friendly and jerk rival types, and both end up developing from it. It’s a neat touch
I love hau and gladion’s dynamic AND their dynamic with the player
And I only played the og sun/moon, but it was like hau became a little more jerky only when talking to gladion, and gladion became a little less brooding with hau
It rly feels like they were more rivals to each other than to the player, as someone else put it
I want to show Hop appreciation because although I love Blue, Silver, Gladion, and Hau, they typically get the credit they deserve. Hop is probably the most realistic character, as I think many people start off confident or at least attempt to be confident, but eventually get knock off a few pegs by life and start to question their ability to get through something. Hop has to rebuild himself and eventually goes back to his roots in rebuilding his team. In the end, he decides that Pokemon Battling is not really for him and decides to become a professor, which is a fitting arc to his character.
Comparatively all the rivals in the series never really question their ability to beat you or they just don't care and leave with a smile. Now, their are some people who have these mentalities of strong confidence or "let's get back to the drawing board" mentality, but it's unlikely that many of these rivals take the losses so well especially since a lot of them are after the same dream.
Yeah! Hop also had the really cool story of being related to the champion- he grew up in his big brother's shadow, and it's hard not to feel pressured, even though their whole family is super close
Every time he loses a fight, the other characters make fun of him for it- they tell him how weak he is, and bring up his brother. That's gotta take a lot out of someone- but he still keeps trying, and still keeps training to get strong. And at several points throughout the story, keeps talking about how hard he's trying
And he uses his defeats as a way to learn, and try to grow as a trainer and figure out what he's good at
@@charnalk5572 I'm a huge Sun and Moon Stan, so it's hard not to see the parallels between the two, in fact it's one of the reasons I skipped on Sword and Shield when they were first released. However, Hop was definitely handled well, I think they took the concept of Hau and wanted to improve upon it and give it a more realistic interpretation. I like Hau, and I can definitely relate to him not trying his hardest so he doesn't look bad if he went all out, but Hop is definitely a great take.
No one wants a friendly Rival.
@@sorasong9708 a lot of people want a friendly rival
@@random_dragon Maybe only the crackheads do.
My favorite rival is N and I am surprised you BARELY touched on him. You have a character trope of the Pure of Heart Hero, but they turned it as if the evil wizard got a hold of him and molded him into HIS vision. His team composition makes sense to his character goals, being the liberation of Pokemon. But he is the perfect foil to the protagonist, being able to become the Champion before them and always being a step ahead, yet always feeling some compassion towards them. He wants nothing more than to test the strength of his convictions to see if he is truly pure. As it turns out, Ghetsis, his, let's face it, abusive father figure, was what was holding him back from his goals. I don't know how to do a summary of N justice because he has a lot of layers to break down.
He got his own entire video, what do you mean?
@@Zorovee Oh, he did? Should watch that when I've got the time...
I loved the story in B+W, and after I played it as a kid, I had a big crush on N. Lmao.
@@poke-talia268 That makes two of us, then
@@Zorovee can't blame him he looks real good
To me, N is the perfect balance between the jerk rivals and the friendly rivals. He doesn't antagonize you, in fact he tries to understand you, but he also doesn't befriend you at all. N is probably the only rival who looks forward to our next conversation as much as he looks forward to our next battle, and I think that duality and balance is pretty good and unique to him.
He desperately wants to befriend you and may even consider you one to him, but his poor social skills and strange position, and determination keeps him from quite getting there while simultaneously revealing what's really stopping him from doing so.
It's a unique dynamic and the only character that does anything close (but not quite) is ORAS Archie, limited to the storyline as he is.
I honestly don’t really care if a rival is friendly or a jerk so long as they have a distinctive personality and a proper motive. Like I love Marine’s design but she’s just so bland and is just kinda there, existing. An interesting rival could be that they start out super duper friendly but because more passive aggressive and condescending as you go though the story and beat them. Eventually they’re out right aggressive, insulting the player and, even refuses to accept that you beat them. I just want game freak to do something to spice up the bland rival’s they’d been doing
You basically described my rewritten version of Serena/Calem almost to a T lol, but Yeah I wish they did
The funny thing with Marnie is that she probably deserves to win the league more than the player
maybe PokeMasters would be fun for you? story is kinda off in some events, but Paulo and Lear are pretty fun rivals. you might like Paulo too, since his character arc is basically what you described, just less of the violence and insulting the player
They sort of did that with Hop. Except instead of becoming aggressive, he just gets depressed.
I wish they did that
Out of all of the friendly rivals from the series Barry from Platinum has to be my favorite. He has a story that is different and isn't like the more modern Pokemon friendly rivals by just being a mouth piece for the player like in Sun and Moon. Also how you mentioned that you liked how the rivals would add items to their team or change out Pokemon to be stronger than yours Barry actually does that too but in a different way. After you beat the Ghost gym in Platinum and finish the battle against Barry he says that his new strategy is to doge all of your attacks and never miss his. Then when you face him before the water gym his team is centered around the move double team and priority moves. It wasn't that noticeable but it shows that he is growing and thinking of ways to be you, not just be a roadblock like many friendly rivals do.
I really like Barry, too. There are some subtle things you can notice about him, and I like that. At Spear Pillar, he shows up with a Munchlax. Which is insane. He took the time to search for it among all of those dang trees. He's got my vote. I couldn't even tell you what Pokemon would be rare enough these days to get a reaction out of me like that one did.
I feel like Bianca is an underrated rival. She is not a difficult rival by any means but that isn't her point. Cheren is the try hard, and N is the threat. Bianca is there to show that not everybody is good at training Pokémon, but they can still find ways to work with them. Bianca continues to travel Unova and becomes a Pokémon researcher. Character wise she is compelling.
@@barbershopbible If you wanna hear rare, try shiny hunting for a 1% Authentic Sinistea. No, that 1% is not just with shiny odds, that's the odds of an authentic one IN GENERAL. So not only is that label so tough to find in the first place, but to add it being shiny on top of that makes it a real trophy to have in your shiny collection.
@@barbershopbible noibat was kind of rare in x and y but I don’t think any of the rivals had it.
hau had noibat but it was pretty common in usum
I want to see a rival we create. Like, a less experienced trainer that started his journey after us, so they ask us for tips and sugestions. So on every new encounter he will change his team and strategy based on what we teach.
Somewhat like Sawyer from the XY anime
Wally from gen 3 is pretty close
@@Belan01 That's honestly why Sawyer is my favorite rival asides from Paul. He surpassed Ash one time, but it was made believable because it was Ash himself that taught Sawyer what he knows. Sawyer was basically a mini-Ash.
Would be cool to have a little brother or protege in these games who later turns out to be your rival because of some twisted story development or maybe because he believes you aren't as good as you once were or something if they made a sequel game where the characters are older.
This is exactly what I had hoped they would do with Wally in ORAS, since he starts after you and looks up to you as a trainer, but unfortunately he only gets a few battles with you so that can't happen.
Also, for N's in battle storytelling, he uses a team composed of the Pokémon of the surrounding routes. Fits perfectly into how he battles, which is through asking Pokémon for their support to help him in the moment.
i know a lot of people hate the sword and shield characters but I honestly really like Hop as a rival. I find Hop's struggle really believable and relatable. The reality that not everyone is going to be able to reach their original dream, you see hop throughout the story affected by his losses against you and even Bede. He feels inferior to his brother and it really does seem to mess with Him for a while. It's an interesting perspective seeing a rival act like this. Give sword and shields story as much shit as you want 70% of the time it is deserved but I really do like how they handled that aspect of Hop.
That really sounds like they recycled Hau from Sun and Moon. Replace Leon with Hala, Bede with Gladion and you really have no difference. That's also not to mention how those two share obvious physical characteristics too. Hop is just a lazy copy+paste of Hau. And that's not me praising Hau either. He's bottom tier too.
I loved beating him up and making him cry. Not worthy to be my rival.
@@D-Havoc bruh what? Hau didn’t have like any reaction to being absolutely steamrolled by the PC Hop was constantly changing his team and went from overconfident due to being Leon’s little brother to being full of self doubt to finally coming to terms with the fact that he doesn’t have to be an amazing Pokémon trainer and follow his brother footsteps and that his calling is somewhere else that’s called character growth and development
@@brandito5480 this
Believe me, people who hate sword and shield characters are a minority, but hate based movements tend to get the most engagement. Just like when it seemed that everybody hated gen 5
Gladion is by far my favourite rival (and character) because I find him to be super unique. While most people like to talk about "jerk" and "friendly" rivals, I feel like Gladion doesn’t really fall in either categories. While he most definitely isn’t a social butterfly, quite the opposite in fact, he isn’t a show off who tries to shove his greatness in your face like Blue, Silver or Bede (which is not necessarily a downside). Him being distant makes complete sense due to him not being able to rely on people after fleeing away from home with only type:null and having to get by on his own, yet there ARE times where he is an ass to you, like when he lets his emotions get the better of him after learning that Lillie was now in the hands of the aether foundation and blames you for it as he straight up battles you (which he immediately admits being wrong for doing so) which can make defeating him satisfying, especially since from the very first time we meet him, he has always been quite judgemental of you and Hau due to him considering both of you as somewhat childish. He always had to become stronger all by himself, and seeing someone like Hau who doesn’t take anything seriously and the MC just chilling and being outright silly at points simply annoys him/makes him roll his eyes in the back of his head, showing a lot of arrogance from him .
And by the end of the game, after saving his family , and realizing that he wasn’t strong enough to save lillie on his own due to him constantly losing to you(making you a full part of his arc) and EVEN GUZMA (which is another thing that I love about gen 7, most of the character arcs are restranscripted through meaningful and important moments that contrast with some aspects of the characters ) he comes to really respect you as you were able to make him realize how arrogant he actually was, and he was able to grow thanks to you, all the while not having the both of you (you as in the main character)become close friends, but still having a connection that make you respect each other and makes it satisfying to beat him regardless
As a member of the Hop defense force, I would like to add something about my boy. One of the most impactful moments in Hop’s arc was when he boxed his beloved Wooloo to try to make his team stronger, for he was so crushed when Bede told him that he was an embarrassment to his brother Leon. Wooloo was Hop’s first Pokémon, making it apparent how much this must have hurt him beyond his dialog. However, when he battles you in Circhester city, he has gained revitalized confidence and brought back his Wooloo. I adore that, especially with how he it was comparatively strong in his battle at Wyndon.
yea most of his character arc wasnt show to us, wish i couldve seen that
@@homienathanial4002 That was an issue with most of the cast in SwSh; the pacing and structure of Pokemon makes it difficult to fully showcase a proper character arc, and that was very much felt with Hop and the other rivals.
@@homienathanial4002 Kind of been an issue with a number of rivals. Wally and Silver to give an example.
N indeed is the best pokemon rival, but Bianca and Cheren are honestly not far behind. Their development is pretty neat, and I love how Bianca represents new players and Cheren represents experienced players. I always get a giggle out of Cheren rushing Professor Juniper's tutorials.
It might be the Gen 4 simp in me talking, but I love how different Barry is compared to the other rivels. Most rivels can often be characterized as "I going to crush you in battle" or "LOL let's have fun".
It's refreshing having a rivel that's kinda the inbetween of both of these idea, while also acting like he drank an entire pot of coffee this morning.
There should be an extra mentioning of Paul from the anime... that guy was exactly what I was hoping a rival to be, honestly...
I'd kill to have a rival like Paul in a Pokemon game. I don't think he'd work in the modern games tho.
@@charnalk5572 I agree, in terms of the anime, he worked because he was the perfect foil for Ash’s personality/training style.
The fact that in the anime his journeys were similar to Ash, apart from beating the Battle Frontier, it made him all the more a mirrored version of him.
I also see them as the Red Oni Blue Oni trope
My favourite rival is Wally, ORAS version. He starts off as a weak timid kid but then grows the courage to be confident in himself. The battle with him just before the Elite Four hits all the right spots. You see him standing tall and throwing his Pokeball with determination and confidence. The music makes the whole thing more emotional because he's trying to prove himself to you (the player). You are the one he looks up to and want to be viewed as your equal. He's relatable. Not everyone can be a protagonist, better than everyone, and we always have that one person who we want to surpass in something.
Blue and Silver were really the best rivals that gave you the insensitive to always be ahead of them especially when in Blue’s case who kept smack talking you throughout the game, better in contrast to “rivals” like Barry or Hau who you don’t feel any satisfaction when you win against them; it’s like beating Bug-catcher Joey expect it feels even more hollow.
Honourable mention to Gladion (Even though he wasn’t really our rival) and N, I really liked that twist with him as the leader of Team Plasma.
At the very least Barry ambushes you for a fight in the most inconvenient spots, won't take a no for an answer, and whenever you beat him, he downplays it by saying that you're just barely stronger than him and he will catch up to you next time.
I can see that but my main problem is that for me they don’t feel like characters, if my only insensitive is to destroy you when you’re on screen, then you’re not really a character to me but a punching ball. This is far more targeted to silver than blue btw
@@M4x_P0w3r then during his fight with Jupiter at Lake Acuity, that he realizes there is more ways to become stronger than he realizes and tries to rebuild his own way of strength to his Pokemon. its subtle, but that fight felt personal to barry because he didnt have enough power to even protect Uxie.
They aren't like rivals, more like partners now.
Okay, in a way, Hau is Wally-tier, since you want to cheer for him to get some KOs on your mons.
Idk why but Hugh always struck a chord with me. He had a goal he wanted to achieve, in which is retrieving his sister's stolen purloin, and he pushed you and himself to become stronger. It always put a smile in my face when his encounter theme played during my playthrough of Black 2. He's underrated imo that's just me but I like 'em! 😁
My favorites rivals (narratively) are Hop and Bede.
Hop openly idolized Leon and was proud to be his brother. After getting his ass handed to him by Bede, he is desperately trying to keep a positive outlook and swiches his team up multiple times, searching for why he is so weak and not wanting to embarass his brother. He then slowly accepts that he is his own person and can go on his own pace. His loosing-animation in the league-battle is so cathartic. Him still being frustrated for being weak but then calming down and looking forwards with a smile. I see him getting the second legendary as a reward for going through his character arc.
Bede on the other hand is an orphan who has an issue with feeling inferior to others. He puts chairman Rose onto a pedestal and sees his own value rise simply by being recommended by him. He goes out of his way to grant Rose's wishes without Rose even asking. This leads to Bede destroying a monument and getting dropped. Now, he got scouted by Opal and chose to endure this humiliation and gain another chance to prove himself.
yeha and hop dont know leon is a weka fool he was eays to beat lance is mroe if changre then him
N is best pokemon rival will not fight you on that.
Love the video, honestly I didn't know about the dynamic team adjustments that Blue had! That's really fascinating that they could do something like that on the Gameboy yet they seem to refuse to do it nowadays. I feel like it would go a long way to making people's playthrough more unique to them as well without doing all that much as a "diverting path" kind of thing.
N's a decent rival but falls apart when you look at the character for longer than a few seconds. Especially with the initial discussion Black and White does when you first start a new save. Where Professor Juniper discusses directly with the player and I will copy and paste this specifically. "We humans live happily with Pokémon! Living and working together, we complement each other. We help each other to accomplish difficult tasks." This is important because it's world-building and a viewpoint you'll take with you throughout the entire game, and states that Humans live happily enough with people that abused pokemon would be basically an utter rarity in Unova at least..
It'd be one thing if enough people treated their pokemon poorly that N could at least argue to himself that Ghetsis hadn't been lying to him but that isn't the case. He was around far enough people that he could talk with a myriad of Pokemon, most of which would or should show some enjoyment and desire to stick with their trainers. After all, affection is naturally accrued by very simple tasks by walking, winning battles, etc. All things most trainers (and other classes of trainers) would actively be doing anyways. And that's ignoring the knee-deep depth of the plot.
This isn't to say black and white (and their sequels) aren't bad, they're one of the best mainline games overall, and I applaud game freaks attempt at making a deeper story. However, N as a rival is far from the best rival and actively looking at the story and how it fits with dialogue makes that clear.
@@ianraymo350 One thing that I think gets forgotten is that N is actively sheltered by Ghetsis, and when you're raised by: 1. Pokemon and 2. A man telling you that there is only one way to protect said Pokemon, then your world view centers around those two things. Plus, there probably are cases of people who are awful to their Pokemon and im sure Ghetsis made sure to fill little N's head full with those instances, picking and choosing.
Honestly, N being able to talk to Pokemon could mean that he knows that some Pokemon are absolutely miserable when on the outside they're fine. I feel like N needed to be explored a lot deeper than what a Pokemon game can offer without derailing the entire story, but he's got deeper morals and history than most rivals combined.
@@ianraymo350 Ghetsis actively raised N to see the worst in people to create that discrepancy in the first place. N was very much detached from reality and biased because of the bubble he'd lived in for so long since childhood. Those things tend to stick with people for a long time. There is a very good reason why Ghetsis and other plasma members were literally dressed up as priests and functioned like a cult in the underground. It's their objective to find vulnerable people and spread doubt to indoctrinate them into following their ideals. To this day we have people from various cults and sects who refuse to have their world view questioned no matter what. There are people who still believe the Earth is flat even though they are directly living on the globe, the horizon and curvature still as clear to see as ever, access to scientific studies as detailed as they can be, access to photos taken directly from outer space alongside 99.99999999% of every source and institution globally backing it up and yet most still remain a lost cause.
N is such a cool character to me!
🥺💚
I personally like Cheren, mostly because of how he fits into the themes of Truths and Ideals that BW had. Cheren represents Ideals and holds onto his Ideal of strength, to be the strongest trainer in the region (the champion). Alder calls Cheren out on his Bullshit and Cheren starts to question things, eventually realizing strength alone is kinda useless. Though his story does get cut a bit short, it would've been nice to see it come full circle in BW2 maybe. A shame that BW's character arcs never really got totally resolved outside of maybe N.
Yeah, Cheren's one of my favourites but admittedly I can't recall much about his character progression in comparison to Bianca but it's still good. It's not unlike how it is for children playing Pokémon too, I know as a kid playing D/P I thought status moves were useless and didn't understand STAB, so I just used all the most powerful moves regardless of their PP or accuracy but as I got older I realised there was way more to Pokémon than brute forcing my way through battles. :D
But in regards to Cheren, I like to think him becoming a teacher/Gym Leader was a nice way to conclude his arc, recognising he still has a lot to learn (Which he'll admit to the player if you ride with him in the Ferris wheel) but wanting to pass the same lessons Alder taught him to a younger generation of trainers and by extension Hugh and the player. It's a small detail but in both games Cheren gives the player berries to use in battle when they're first starting out. He's always been one to have his Pokémon hold items and encourages the player to do so too, I always thought that was a neat touch. ^-^
Both Bianca and Cheren had resolved character arcs though. It's why both go on to enter professions that directly or indirectly help people, pokemon, and the relationships of the two.
I think Cheren got his character development in BW2 by being pokemon gym leader. At least he has his strength useful by teaching the newbie there
Don't forget he is involved in Masters Ex story mode
He is relevant in alot of chapters later on
My favorite rivals:
- Blue: because I want to beat him (mechanical challenge)
- May: Nostalgia. First Pokemon game I fully remember even if my first Pokemon was Yellow.
- Seren: Is a nice balance between ally and rival. (personality)
- Hop: I like his growth and you can see what he feels by seeing his team. (growth)
- Dunno if it counts, but Volo... because of the final fight.
Volo used the player as a pawn to gather the other Plates for him. Sure they're moments he helps us out but nothing that gives Rival vibes imo.
I can see where you’re coming from with Volo. He’s an almost constant companion through your adventures, always showing up and supporting you, and occasionally giving you a battle (though, that’s where I’d say calling him a rival is non-applicable seeing as you fight him, what, twice before the final battle?). It’s not until the end that he fully reveals what he’s after
In a sense, he’s made to be viewed as a rival from the characters end, but is not something that goes both ways cause he’s using you
Are you talking about Serena or Cheren?
@@kiwikarp9509 Yes
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Cheren
I think Wally's whole point is to be weak
He sick and really pathetic in terms of strength
So when he finnaly gets 1 pokemon he only focuses on making that one pokemon strong so after he foolishly challenges you to a battle he learns the hard way that he needs to improve and try harder in order to become strong
Your tiny pupil that wants to impress you if you will
I don't think some of the modern rivals even count as rivals they feel more like traveling companions who want to compete with you in battles for fun
In Wally's case, he also is about growth, and how he is aiming to want to become stronger as a Trainer after he gets Ralts thanks to your help, and how with Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, he shows that big time due to being able to Mega Evolve Gallade to Mega Gallade, and how his team later on becomes even stronger than in the main story. :)
Hau in Ultra had just enough of a tweak in the story department to make me like him. In the base game Hau was unchanging, but in Ultra Gladion and later Guzma make Hau rethink his stance on battling because it’s fine to have fun fighting but if you’re ok with losing all the time then you’re never going to get anywhere. Over the course of the story Hau hardens a little more and starts taking battles seriously.
I love the idea behind him (deliberately holding back and not really trying because of fear that if he does try his hardest, and fails, then it all would have been for naught), I just wish it could've been fleshed out more than it was. I don't personally like the USUM changes all that much, but Hau's fear of trying being addressed more was definitely a good change.
Also would've helped Hop retroactively stand out a little more too, since they'd start from similar bases but with different attitudes towards it (Hau wanting to surpass Hala, but not really trying out of fear, while Hop thinks he's destined for greatness because he's Leon's brother), and branch out into their own more established characters later down the line.
Gladion and Hau almost feel more like rivals to each other if anything, and that's not a bad thing imo.
@@heavydonkeykong5190 yep^^^^
It's interesting that by USUM, Hau's deconstructed the "enjoy the adventure" rival with the weaker starter that Bianca started. He's scared to get serious and put it all on the line, but learns the hard way that it's not fair to his ideals, friends, or his Pokemon.
Paul is probably one of my favorite rivals since he's the only one to challenge ash on an ideological level and how that rivalry ended was oh so Damn satisfying
Paul is how you do a jerk rival
@@yarc9 absolutely! 😁
Definitely. that boy even put Ash on a moment of depression that got him questioning if his way of training Pokemon was even worth it.
that made the moment where Ash finally defeated Paul all the more satisfying (even if the battle after that was the series' cheap way of reinforcing the status quo (at the time) that "Ash must never win"
*cough* Tobias....
Video Idea: Why is Pokémon Black and White the Best Pokémon Game (Storywise)
I was too young to fully appreciate it back then but MAN that shit was good
They kinda did that already
Never heard that before
It would only be the 63859th video of that topic
It can stay right in the bin with Kalos and Galar sorry
my ideal rival: Jaded pro who, for one reason or another, gave up on being a trainer. He's a bit older than you, maybe even an adult, but he is even less energetic than the adults in the area. He almost seems...dead. His team, mostly overpowered pokemon, reflect this "Lets get it over with as quickly as possible" mentality. He sees battling as a job, rather than something to devote his life to.
Over the course of the game, he keeps running into the player. The player challenges him, wanting to test their mettle against this guy who comes off as a wizened senior even if he's just going with the flow. So, wanting to get the weird kid out of his way, he agrees. And, as usual for pokemon, he loses so the story can progress. But then something changes. As the trainer is going along, they find the rival waiting for them. He's sitting outside a city gate with a full team and a question: "Why do you fight?"
The battle happens as usual, but there's a notable difference: the team composition has changed. His team has something like a Larvesta on it now, a 'mon that needs work and effort to evolve. Also his starter pokemon is holding a berry. It's not much but this trend keeps going on.
Each battle from that point has the rival more curious about the trainer's motivations, and occasionally encounters happen where the rival is actually just in town checking things out on his own. Each time his roster changes a little from pokemon that are just plain powerful to pokemon with tricks or pokemon with thougth put into their movesets (a sleeptalk gengar, or a pokemon with trickster swapping out their flame orb on the first turn, for example). The rival starts feeling motivated, seeing the many different ways that other trainers do things.
Eventually, outside of the region's victory road, he approaches you at a full sprint. He saw you going that way and wants to see how your teams measure up before he takes on the last gym he needs to follow the same path. This team, save for the starter, is wildly different than the first team that relied on brute force and mindless attacking. This team is full of tricks, pokemon that reward dedication, and held items that mix up how the fight goes. I don't want to say he's a player in disguise, but the idea of a rival that fights like a human trainer is both a tough fight and a strong narrative tie-in because he's so motivated he's almost not even an NPC anymore.
I think there'd be another battle just after the end of victory road. I would like for that battle to be a kind of reintroduction, where the rival debuts as a more positive and motivated version of the ghost that was initially met. A sort of Rebirth with the crown jewel of his team being that "long-term investment" pokemon's fully evolved form (a volcarona, for example).
I wish pokemon was brave enough to do something like this. Sounds really fun tbh.
This sounds great~ I'd Gladly take a rival that didn't necessarily even want to be there xD Like a kind of prodigy who lost all interest because things were too easy, no-one wanted to play with them anymore and there was no challenge, no joy.
The rival would start spicing things up, finding small bits of interest that revitalize their love for stuff. And maybe, at some point during your story, the player character would be the one feeling down, angry, irritated. Maybe the next gym requires for you to fight an X amount of trainers, but everyone is scared and doesn't want to fight you because you look too strong. At first this might be interesting. By winning and training hard, you're able to skip some optional battles like this. But then the game stalls you and stops your progress. You start getting frustrated, you keep trying to find people to fight but no-one shows up.
Irritated you sit down and as you see the rival again you start to feel like you understand what they went through - and the two of you talk and discuss what you could do in this situation. Maybe you could try several different things? Rotate some of your pokemon for new ones, ensure the people you're challenging that you're doing it for fun and the experience rather than to just beat everyone, show that you care about your pokemon and that they're not just battle-machines to you, etc. etc.
So many potentials!
I don’t even know why but I’ve always especially loved Bianca and Cheren I don’t even have a good reason why they’re my favourites, they’re just endearing to me
I found cheren and bianca are realistically written character that's not commonly portrayed in media.
Cheren is a typical high-achiever student in your school thinking becoming top ranking student is the ultimate goal. Then later he realized that being the smartest is rather useless if it only being kept to himself, so he need to find his life purpose so his intelligent will be useful.
Meanwhile Bianca is that student who has big dream but lacks natural talent (I always pity her everytime she shows up). At the end she realizes eventhough she can't be a pokemon champion, she can still be pokemon researcher in which she is still happy about it.
I definitely think you should look into Pokemon Masters when it comes to the rivals. They flesh them out a lot more. Especially Silver.
I am never going to play Pokémon Masters. Want to offer some details?
@@ninjaydes Well for one thing, Silver's search for strength is so he can be better than his father, Giovanni. He doesn't want to be constantly overshadowed by his criminal father. He's completely driven by wanting to be strong on his own. He thinks friendship and using others is a sign of weakness and it causes him to push away the Johto protags because of it. He thinks he is unworthy of being called a good person until he can prove he can beat anyone on his own. He won't rely on others to make himself stronger.
@@ninjaydes im sure youtube has all the events and sync pair stories
@@ninjaydes look up lusamines appearances i am down tremendous
My favourite example of storytelling through Pokemon games' mechanics is in B2W2 with Zinzolin's Sneasel. In the first battle against Zinzolin in Lacunosa Town it's lv. 44 and knows Slash, Screech, Punishment and Snatch, which are moves a wild lv. 44 Sneasel would have in B2W2. The Giant Chasm is the only location where Sneasel can be found in those games, and the Giant Chasm is right next to Lacunosa. Thus it can be assumed that Zinzolin just cought that Sneasel.
Another instsnce like that in the same games is Ghetsis's Hydreigon knowing Frustration, which when used by this Hydreigon, is at max power.
I really like how Silver’s team set is similar nature reflective to Team Rocket’s teams, having a electrical technical Pokémon like the lab coat trainers and a couple of poison types, one being a staple for a lot Grunts. Also find it neat how he also stole a sneasel before Mahogany Town meeting.
For favorite rivals, I have to say Gladion, Barry, Cheren, and Blue all take that spot for me, with two surprises being Hau and Hop.
Now similar to N, i don't consider them "Rivals" to the fullest degree, but character who are trying to find their own path in life, especially in Hop's case. Hau is the grandson to Mele Mele Kahuna and someone who hasn't seen his father in a long time, thusly he has a bit of an identity crisis of living up to the legacy of Hala, but also enjoying life to the fullest at the same time. Meanwhile, Hop is definitely living in the shadow of Leon and his legacy and because of that, he really wants to impress and live up to becoming the next champion of Galar, but as you go on and see how both of them deal with their adventures and losing significant battles, they both show different perspectives to that. Hau takes his Loss to Gladion jovially at first, but when the Aether foundation kidnaps Lillie, he starts doubting himself thinking he can't do enough as is as a trainer, so he trains with his grandfather to become better and in the Ultra games, he makes it to the league to challenge you as the ultimate fight.
Hop on the other hand breezes through the league up until Bede's battle with him which he loses and not only gets humiliated by him, but told the equivalent of "kick rocks" cause he'll never live up to Leon's legacy (of course Bede is a whole nother can of worms for another time), but instead of doing that, he keeps going and while he loses the league preliminaries, he helps in saving Galar and finally finds new resolve in being a pokemon professor's assistant like Bianca.
Could i be looking into things too much, maybe? But I feel like when it comes to the friendly rivals or at least, the newer rivals, Hop and Hau aren't bad rivals story wise, just not as well written or developed as the contemporaries, but they still earn my respect as my favorite rivals alongside the names before, just not the best well written/implemented ones (that honor goes to Blue, N, Cheren, and Bianca).
I doubt they'd actually do it, but an idea I had was that there could be a point late in the story where your rival gets an offer to join the villain team. They start out as the bog standard friendly rival and as the game progresses their dialog hints that the player that constantly beats them is the jerk rival. You could even include the dialog change dynamically where if you lose an early battle or two he mentions that you kept insisting his wins don't count (because you need to win for story progress, and is a thing a bratty kid would do in-character). The reason for the late game offer is that there would be a slight story branch where you decide whether chasing friendship - the core theme of the series - or being the very best - the title theme of the series - is more important.
I love this, it's brilliant. This would be super nice
It hit the core things that I personally like too!
- A reason for you to be rivals/the motivator
- Character arch/development (aka characters changing through the course of the story, drastically and/or taking a very different path than they planned originally)
- Choices to be made/Things can be deep
- Little spice in weaving the evil Team into the story and making it more personal
Interestingly Pokemon Masters is kinda doing it with Paulo, the MC's rival, although he's seemingly more like anti-hero, someone who is starting to show signs of unheroic behavior to achieve heroic goals.
Hau is probably one of my all-time favorite rivals, especially in USUM. I like how he regularly shows up and ends the game with a full team of six Pokemon. I also think that the Malie Garden rival battle is one of the hardest rival battles in any game and I've lost to him at that point in multiple playthroughs. Which is something that can't really be said about most any other rival
I love the fact that you brought up Silver using a Crobat. Yeah, it evolves via friendship so the story telling is saying that Silver really started to treat his Pokemon good.
Meanwhile, in Sinnoh, Cyrus who claims he doesn't consider Pokemon as friends, also uses a Crobat.........????
I wouldn’t mind a rival that starts nice, but becomes more desperate with each loss.
Eventually joining the Evil team at the tail end of the story for more power.
That would have made Serena/Calem WAY more interesting
like paulo from pokemon masters ex?
@@redram6080 no it wotned that wood wya claen or serne join tema lfi who want to ki poople that not who they are
Blue/Green will always be my favourite. I just like his personality and across other games and anime, I like it even more.
I’m glad that you brought out that even jerk personality types in a rival doesn’t make one a good rival. I especially am glad you brought out that Blue/Green wasn’t really a jerk to Red. Even in Pokémon Origins and the manga Pokémon Adventures, Blue/Green wasn’t an asshat like Gary was in the anime. Sure, he said shit like “smell you later,” but he always came off as one of Red’s childhood friends that was constantly encouraging him to become better and stronger. Sure, Blue/Green had an ego, was cocky as hell and had an attitude, but I’d like to meet someone that’s never had a friend like that. We all have and we understand that these friends do try to help us become better and see the hidden potential we can’t see in ourselves. That’s why I think rivals are better as close friends to the main character. Not because they’re “friendly,” but because friends are often the least friendly. They know each other well enough to not have to put up a front or try to impress each other. They can have an attitude and the other will understand what it means. That’s why I love Phoenix and Edgeworth as rivals. They’re best friends that are open about who they are as people, both the good and the bad. Just as Edgeworth will openly be a jerk, he’s also the most vulnerable around Phoenix and the same vice versa. Even despite being so livid with Edgeworth to the point Phoenix never wanted to see or hear Edgeworth again, even telling him “you should’ve stayed dead” (Jesus Christ!) Phoenix still went to Edgeworth about Maya’s situation and his grief over it. You could say the same about Kazuma and Ryunosuke. Give them time and I can see Kazuma surpassing Edgeworth as being the greatest rival in Ace Attorney.
origna si joke red dont ook liek red in in orginals lets go and manga red look like red id in gen 1 not tha remake red who rogianl sued that look noint iek red
@@ssjgotenks2009what the actual fuck are you saying
I'll say N is best rival, he had a very good story and because he is a cool guy, i really felt glad to see him again and again
My favorite rivals must be Silver, N and Gladion. The connections to the baddies they have and how they fight it in their own way makes me like them so much
Ironically, it's Blue and Silver who were the best rivals. They made you want to be better so that when you beat them you actually felt like you accomplished something. Something later rivals don't give you if you ask me. They're friends and it's a "no hard feelings" thing.
N though I feel is the exception to the rule. Much like the game's legendaries he comes to you with his philosophy about how pokemon should be treated and more than just battling it's a clash of ideologies. Even in B/W 2 he's still interesting.
My favorite rivals in Pokemon are N and Blue. I really hope that something changes and Pokemon actually evolves past this ridiculous casualization mindset as if Pokemon wasn't already easy for newcomers to pick up to begin with. I picked up these games at age 10 and I was terrible, but I loved the games all the same.
Thanks Kamen! I really appreciate someone finally pointing out that friendly rivals aren't the issue.
As for some of my favorites: I actually really enjoy Brendan/May. Sure they don't have the strongest teams, but as cheesy as it sounds, I love the friendship between the two. It actually feels kind of wholesome and enjoyable. Also I loved Barry and Hop's development.
As for my least favorite: Maybe Hau. Not cause he was friendly, but he just added little to nothing for me.
I have a soft spot for the Hoenn rivals too.
I'd say Blue and Silver are my favorites with N, Barry and Hugh coming in close for different reasons. Blue and Silver are mainly due to the drive to beat them down and nostalgia.
Barry was a good execution of a friendly rival and being a childhood friend to the player felt like he was a different spin on Blue. Also the fact that his dad is a Frontier Brain and arguably one of the strongest trainers in the region being a driving force for him to get stronger made a good contrast to Silver.
N is arguably had the most character development in all the games and watching him grow as a person was pretty fun since despite being the evil team leader/king he had a pretty noble goal.
Hugh was similar to Barry but had a completely different temperament, animosity to the evil team similar to Silver and had a noble goal similar to N (he battle to make sure no one went through what his sister did).
Recently finished playing Moon and Gladion was decent but I wished they gave him a larger role and not let his sister go with a trainer they've known only for a short while to stop his insane mom by themselves.
I always liked Silver the most as a villain and that was in the original Gold and Silver. Reason being is he was a thief. He kicked you, stole his pokemon, had this unquiet look, and his anger issue was something you don't see in pokemon, especially back then. Blue never hated you and even kinda saw you as a friend "My rival should be strong to keep me sharp!" but Silver just flat out hated you, weak pokemon, and Team Rocket. Mad ehim facinating to me even back then.
Hau is the rival I hated the most. His grandpa was a Khauna and Elite 4 member but he was so boring, weak, and uninspiring. Hop a least had a arc.
As much issue I have with SwSh is, one thing I love is the characters themself. Like Hop story is so interesting, with him not being great at battling and having to find something for him to do.
I love Hop’s character development from “idealistic younger brother tries to become his big brother to prove himself” to someone who acknowledges the path he’d rather take for himself. However, he doesn’t really feel like a rival so much as your bestie.
Love Hop’s arc too. I like Bede too although he could’ve benefited from harder battles.
Marnie unfortunately had a lack of screentime
The rivals in SwSh suffered from underdeveloped, but I loved them, with Hop being my second-favorite rival.
I feel similar for Hau because in Ultra had just enough of a tweak in the story department to make me like him. In the base game Hau was unchanging, but in Ultra Gladion and later Guzma make Hau rethink his stance on battling because it’s fine to have fun fighting but if you’re ok with losing all the time then you’re never going to get anywhere. Over the course of the story Hau hardens a little more and starts taking battles seriously.
@@Rikrobat I honestly of the boat we don’t need a rival in every game. Especially since it hard to make a compelling rival without forced losses
Speaking of Wally, I think his story was improved in ORAS. I’d consider him more the main rival of the remake than I would Brendan/May. I felt like a proud parent fighting him before Victory Road.
I understand that Silver isn't the most compelling, but to me what made jerk rivals great was because people could easily relate or apply it to RL. When you have someone who's an asshole to you, you want to be motivated to kick their teeth in, especially when as a kid petty stuff like that means more. And sure, you don't HAVE to be an asshole to provide motivation, but it does make sense. However one thing I wish the series explored more was having a friendly rival turn jerk. Like I would like if a game had made a rival start out as a friend at first, then as the game progresses they become more arrogant and self centered, if you want to go further you can set this up for a bigger story, like say as they become an asshole they also become stronger, even becoming the strongest trainer in the region, which further validates their newly formed ego.
XY even had a solid idea of a group of friends as rivals, but don't explore it. You could have the idea mentioned from one above, but also every rival has a different goal, and depending on the goal the player can choose to challenge any of them given a path they might take. One could say have a goal centered around contests, you can run into them at point and if the player wants challenge them at a contest, its like they have their own development in their own side story. Since not every trainer would be interested in battling, I'm just spitballing basic ideas though.
Now, I'd have to say that my own personal favorite Rival character/moment was in Sword and Shield. SnS was the first Pokémon game I dived into with more knowledge of the game mechanics aswell as a more wide English vocabulary, so I could fully understand everything more.
For Rivals, Hop was meh, Bede had a neat conclusion, and Marie felt like the best all-round.
That is UNTIL Isle of Armor! With Klara. Now, she did start off very condescending and braty, but then during her final story battle.... When she had put Poison Spikes all over the arena.... THAT spoke to me on a whole other level! Not only was it a neat game mechanic to put you at a disadvantage. But it also spoke SO MUCH for Klara. Her resolve to even use such underhanded tactics to beat you really showed me the drive she had for wanting to be better than you and win.
That singular moment solidified her as my own personal favorite Rival.
Volo in Legends Arceus is honestly the closest to returning to challenging form in terms of battling.
I usually listen to your videos when doing the dishes before going to bed. It's a really relaxing experience for me, love your vids!
Blue and N are by far the best rivals
100% N is the best pokemon rival. Period. I'll be your sword and shield if people wanna fight it. I love his design and how he was written. He was an antagonistic force without being a stereotypical villain. It was just a difference in opinion and best of all: HE RESPECTED YOUR OPINION! Praise, Arceus, we have a good boy!
Love the video, Kamen. Keep up the good shit and hope you're doing well :)
I’d say N is more of a straight up antagonist than a traditional Rival. But yeah he’s probably one of the best characters
Idk if this is controversial or not, but I always liked Hugh as a Pokémon rival. I always liked how friendly and energetic he was; plus, his goals were different enough from mine that I didn’t feel bad for constantly beating him.
Hugh truly felt like a best friend. He'd challenge you to make sure you weren't lacking in your training.
Hugh, Bianca, and Cheren were one of the best rivals that really felt like your friends. And with the writing and attention of Bianca, Cheren, and N, you'd think that Sw/Sh would have been able to not forget about Marnie and not let Bede be such a joke.
That part at the beginning made me super nostalgic for no reason lol. Great editing!
I wouldn't consider Wally a rival, per se. He's more like a junior who you were meant to make sure didn't hurt himself or get in over his head. I dunno, I just felt his "rivalry" was more "check out how far I've come" that hobbyists & competitive types should foster. Like, sure, it's hard to NOT crush Wally's team; but I preferred to read it as having seen him at the start and witness how much he grew - seeing snippets of his progress both as a trainer and his health significantly improving. You're supposed to support and encourage him, not beat him into the dirt and humiliate him.
While I myself played the first Pokemon games, I took a long break from Pokemon and returned when sword and shield came out.
At that point, I didn't have a favorite rival, but as I found poketubers, I came across the Pokemon manga and those are seriously the BEST Pokemon media!
Thanks to those, silver is my favorite, mostly bc I'm a sucker of his trope, kid of an evil father trying to do good in the world.
Seriously people the manga is amazing!
Especially ruby and Sapphire.
I legitimately cried on the final volume, it was that good.
SO TRUE I'd say May is my favorite rival literally just because I love Sapphire :P
Props to Hop, the cut scenes with you and him on the train really felt authentic. It didn't farther plot, but it really made me feel like the characters are friends who enjoy hanging out. And it felt like everyone else in the game pushed the 'rivals' thing, while he was just like 'gonna hang out with my friend, catch up, get insight to whats going on, and check in on them'
I never considered hop as a rival, just my characters friend who was cheering me on despite the competative nature of events.
He went through things, but even with struggling with his own stuff, never stopped celebrating his friends success.
Whoa whoa Kamen. Yellow flag on the play. Can't just hit people with a surprise acacia outta nowhere. Got me feeling nostalgic and ready to cry
Personally I love Barry, from being an impulsive trainer Challenging you to finding a munchlax and using snorlax (something that requires too much patience in diamond and pearl) at the end while waiting for you to challenge him, I think really shows character growth. Though there is something to be said for Gladion, Silver, N, and Hue rivals with backstory I think also helps alot. Though Silver's Crobat is kinda undermined by Cyrus's.
Hop isn't as bad as a rival as people always say. He's definitely impulsive, but he clearly is putting in effort to be better. The issue of story variety really shows when you're in the desert town.
Hop was beating himself up over losing to Bede. It was the one battle I, and many others, intentionally lost only to be met with the disappointment of a mandatory win.
Story variety and removal of the win-to-progress system are important to the game. This could easily build off of the rival's shifting teams as well. The forced win battles can still be used for sure, but not all mandatory rival battles should be win only.
Do you know how hard it is to lose to Hop? I started using status moves because it was taking so long! STATUS MOVES! Not to mention my last pokemon lasted as long as half of the battle length.
Just want to shout out some love for Bianca. I like how they added a character who struggles and has a real reaction when they keep losing to you. Like a lot of rivals seem like punching bags that don't feel pain (especially post gen 6) but having someone who struggles and has a story with real growth is really neat, especially since that growth continues into Black and White 2, she was a nice surprise for me tbh. Especially being able to hear her grow relationships with her pokemon beyond just making a strong team was really sweet. I feel like pokemon rivals can succeed as a game mechanic or a story mechanic and are best when they are both, but Bianca imo is an amazing example of how a story-based character builds the game up, especially contrasting her with N and Cheren.
I've been playing since gen 1 and having a non-optional female rival was super exciting (excited for SV cause of this reason, Marnie wasn't a huge actor, she was mostly acted on) and I think she is really unique and a great stand out. She feels like an actual person, an actual kid tbh with disapproving parents and all, and she shows a lot of growth. Barry and Blue are my other favorites because you get to fight them so many times, but honestly her story makes her number one for me (N is a Cynthia figure for me, not a rival).
What makes or breaks a Rival in Pokémon is the level of investment the game is willing to make and them. Blue, Barry, Bianca, Sun and Moon Hau all had prominent personality traits. Silver, Wally, Cheren, Ultra Sun and Moon Hau, and Bede (Klara and Avery in a smaller case) all had their own arcs of growth where we could see shifts in personality. Then there's N and Gladion who have all what was mentioned and are actually relevant to the plot of the game. Then there's Hop, who is one of the more better written story characters as we see all of his beats, the changes in gameplay, and how the game takes time to highlight his journey as well (even if he has that "Okay, I get it, shut up, you still lose" effect in the first half of the game).
What I would really like to see from the Pokémon games is a Rival that goes down the wrong path and we, as the player, are partially responsible for. Like we share the same dream initially and the Rival is more knowledgeable about being a Trainer, so they have a lead on us (maybe from the beginning already have a very rare Pokémon that isn't obtainable until late/post game). Maybe even a scripted loss if done right in the very early battles, like the rare mon is one you can't realistically beat with early game mons as it's like very resistant to all of them. But as you go on your journey and the world opens up to you, you can put up and fight and start winning and your Rival becomes disillusioned to being this special trainer or they had to work hard for what seems to come easily for the Player. And as the Rival feels the Player is pulling further and further ahead of them, they start trying to be a stand out in anyway possible; i.e. blitzing through gyms before you, throwing themselves into the story with the evil team, trying to take on wild Pokemon they can't handle, savagely beating another Rival, etc. But in the midst of all this, the evil team of the region halfway through their storyline realizes they need a specific or prophecized trainer to continue their plan and the Rival is who they're looking for (maybe have it deal with that rare mon they've had the whole time). After another battle and lost to you, the evil team approaches them and gives them a role, a purpose, that only the Rival can fulfill. Now when the evil team does something, Rival is there too as a boss character and the Player trying to stop the evil team is now equated as trying to take away what's special about the Rival and they can't be trusted to do the right thing. So, feeling betrayed and unwanted, the Rival falls deeper into the evil team and sees you as an enemy (gameplay wise, they'd probably add a signature mon of the evil team to their team). This all builds up to the climax, legendaries get involved (maybe the player has to go encounter/find a legendary just to deal with what they've been doing), another really hard Rival battle where the win or loss doesn't matter, evil team has accomplished their goal and is on the verge of making their wish come true, Rival sees error of their ways and has a change of heart, then either double battle or gives you his rare mon to the Big Boss final fight. Afterwards you get the whole falling action, character resolution, 1 more Rival fight with their true team before the Elite 4/champion, and then an epilogue for them that fits whatever the game mechanic/story/tone was that affirms them in the path they need to take now.
My favortie rivals in a narrative perspective are hau and gladion cause they REALLY fit their games amd complement each other. As a character in general without labels such as rival or champion, it's Blue. Really love how the writers expanded on his small trait in the kanto games as someone who likes to give advice based on ther experience, which I saw as really genuine instead of show off (i'd consider it show off if he was the kind to flaunt about things he only read about or heard about, cause it would come off as very privileged). They expanded on it and made him into more of a mentor type (Lets Go and Masters), he's a really genuine dude who loves to help out rookie trainers. Good on him.
To be honesty favorite rival is wally and I was very disappointed with how little of him there was and I think they should have just replaced may or just rewrite to where he is the main point to flesh out his weakness and how he over comes it. Good character needs more growth
This was an amazing video! Another example of storytelling through a rival's team is how N only uses Pokémon that are found around the area you're battling him, because he sees capturing Pokémon as wrong, and releases them after every battle. In the memory link event in B2W2 you can capture N's former Pokémon and you learn that they never wanted to leave N's side, they even still have N as their OT. I think N is my favorite rival as well, because his motives are genuinely understandable, and you can tell that he truly does want what is best for Pokémon, and he even respects the player even though they have completely opposite views. The legendary Pokémon also chose N for this reason. He might be an antagonist but he is not a villain. It's a very interesting and three dimensional character dynamic.
For my optimal pokemon game, I'd have 3 rival characters for to accompany the player
1. A rude competitive nut that makes sure to use items on all his pokemon (berries, wise glasses, even choice items in late game) who picks the starter that has an advantage to yours
2. A friendly face, always ok for a sparring match between friends (maybe the other player model) who uses items, but not to the extent of the previous one. They'd pick the remaining starter who has a disadvantage to your's
3. A story based rival like N, who doesn't have a traditional starter pokemon, but a pokemon that evolves with friendship (maybe a eevee to umbreon/espeon) that undergoes a interesting character arc.
Me when I realize this is just b/w rival setup
Long post ahead
My personal favourites:
Silver - The concept of your rival being a criminal, the child of a criminal leader, that's fascinating. It gives the character some backstory. In Silver's case he was bitter and never experienced friendship or care until he met you. In some alternate universe he could have tackled beating up Team Rocket alongside you if he opened up earlier and realized you wanted to help (Heck, maybe you'd not know of Team Rocket and all the trouble they've caused until Silver told you about that stuff & brought it into your attention, telling you that some people (not appropriately dressed in uniforms) were Team Rocket members etc. etc.) OR if he was more tied to the evil organization and had a warmer relation to it then Of Course he'd want to stop you (but that's kinda Gladion, whom I love too)
Silver's story is one of opening up, learning that there's more to the world than cruelty, abandonment, lies and strength. He's very interesting and if we ever get another Gen 2 game I Hope they do even more with his character
Gladion - I'll yeet him here since he's very close to Silver in that bit I mentioned. His story is also relating to family, but he takes a different kind of bad path to fix what troubles him. In the end he needs a different Complete Outsider's help (He tried getting it from Guzma, but Guzma & Lusamine had stuff, so, things were planned behind Gladion's back and he didn't know he was being played and used). Gladion takes matters into his own hands and tries to make a difference and I like that about him. Yeah he might seem edgy, but there's more depth to his character than that (I do wish the 2nd Gen 7 games didn't soften Lusamine up like that. Domestic Abuse is a real issue)
Bede - Yeeees, I love this man. He's another interesting rival with backstory. He used to be an orphan, but was adopted or taken in in some other way by Rose. He's so grateful he devotes his whole life to Rose. We know Rose ultimately doesn't care for him and treats him like a pawn - you can also kinda theorize that there was never that close or warm of a relation between them (depending on how young Bede was when he was taken in, if Rose actually cared for him and loved him I'd imagine Bede would be more loving and caring too - but no, he's cold, has a superiority complex and his life rotates around servitude. He craves for Rose's attention, like being acknowledged is all that matters and gives him a reason to continue. He's devastated when Rose throws him away and he can't fathom a life without serving Rose, so he continues his servitude even after he's been thrown in the trash - because that's his life, that's all he has! And it's BAD, which makes Bede's character So Good.)
Over the course of the game Bede gets freed from the grasps of Rose, he finds something else in life. He's accepted and cherished by Opal and we get to see him genuinely smile and be happy. Healing takes time, but he'll get there eventually
Ok, those are the 3 I'll mention here as my faves
Now for the bad ones
Shauna, Tierno & Trevor - Yeeeeah... Like was already mentioned in the video, they don't really get to become characters. If the story itself was longer, if the characters played a bigger role in it, then Maybe they'd have at least a little bit going for them. But as it is? Mmm.. Nope. I don't really care for Shauna, she's just... Eh. Very basic? I dunno, there's just, nothing interesting about her. And I don't want to be tossed a random 'love interest' in a game either lol. If that's her role in the game, girl I'm sorry, you're a child this is Very Awkward.
Anyway. Tierno is... I Guess the dance aspect is at least a bit more of an interesting characteristic. But. We Really should be seeing it more than we do for it to actually make a difference. And Trevor. Eh... The Dex rival idea could be interesting, but... There's never really any concrete thing to it. It's just a bit of dialogue and that's it. We don't actually get to see his progress, how he does things. If he was the one that was the tech kid then why wasn't he the one that messed up Team Flare's stuff at the end? OR, Perhaps, make Shauna a Technical genius, give her that bit of characterizing. Make Shauna a genius who wants to try doing something else because 'they'll just make me do XYZ, but I don't want to be locked in a cubicle all day, I wanna go outside and enjoy nature' and the journey lets her figure out what she wants to do with her life and - Oh. Right. We were talking about Trevor. My boy. .....
The big issue here is just that there's TOO MANY OF THEM. Sorry to say it, but the game would benefit immensely by merging or removing at least 1 if not 2 of the rivals. How about we take Cina & Dexio, the Professor's assistants. One of them becomes the fella that checks you for the dex completion, and the other is one that tests you in all kinds of battle style knowledge - dance-related moves, weather, OH'KO, all physical/special, and all that stuff. Then we've got the other player character as the default rival. Make them competent, ambitious, give us a reason to be rivals - deeper than just a random new neigbour kid. Did we move into a house their family wanted? Did the professor choosing us and not them irritate them? Did the professor's letter accidentally end up in our house instead of theirs? Jealousy? Envy? A family with way too high expectations/expect way too much/weigh on the rival's mind and never let them rest (we'd visibly see this stress building and building, eventually finding the rival probably passed out somewhere and we'd have to have a talk with them about it). Aaaand Shauna can be the friendly partly clueless one.
Oh boy. Did I just turn these fellas into Gen 5 rivals? Oops
Well, anyway. I think that's about it from me. I've already written way too much
No need to fight you, N *is* the best.
I love your videos man, keep it up !
Gladion did do more storytelling with his team in USUM too. In one fight he sends out a Zoruark as the head of his team so it won't have to be something its not usually, which he resolves with acceptance later and uses the Zoruark how its usually used. His theme music is a remix of "Runaway" from the Rescue Team PMD games.
And in defense of Wally you should beat him up early so its more satisfying when it feels like right behind your back, without you noticing, he's actually gotten stronger.
I don’t think I have a preference over “mean” or “nice” rivals? But if I had to choose one rival as my favorite, it’d be Hop. I will admit, I did find him annoying at first with his constant talk about being the future champion, but I got more enthralled with his story as it progressed. And I felt so bad when I kept defeating him.😭
Also, love your videos!
N felt like more of a main character than I did in B/W/B2/W2, amazing character
0:31 thats my favorite line out of Pokemon Generations. That one line encompasses everything about Blue/Green and Red's relationship
N in Black/White was also pretty interesting in that his team would change constantly, usually using whatever pokemon were in the area. This lended to his claim of being able to speak to the hearts of pokemon, and probably only had many of them join him for that battle. Which also makes sense why his team is seasonal in B2W2.
N is my favorite for being a rival and villain who actually has a point behind their beliefs strong enough to shake us the player. There are rivals that challenge you in-battle, but no other that can challenge you as a person the way he does.
I have a big soft for Barry honestly
N having the seasonal team is the coolest thing ever
"Fight me on this."
...
Okay, where when and in what way? I'm up for a fight.
The problem with rivals now is they’re too easy and show up too often! Blue appeared at such inconvenient times it raised the stakes of the battle! Right at the end of SS Anne, right before you fight Giovanni at Silph Scope, losing meant you had to start again and his team was actually tough. Now they heal you up, battle you whilst being 5 levels lower then heal you up again
Honestly in Pokémon games I just want a rival that is an actual force of opposition rather than just being a friendly cheer force which they have been for such a long time now in Pokémon.
The thing about Blue was that he always was where you didn't want him. You chose a Pokémon, he chose something that would beat it. You enter the first gym, he already beat it before you. You go through Mt. Moon, he sees you as easy picking afterward. You get through Pokémon Tower in Lavender Town and you meet him and he blames you for his grief. After plenty of scuffles, you go to the Elite Four and only need to beat the Champion. Who's the Champion? Blue! Your friggin' rival! He was there before you, always one step ahead!
But in Sun/Moon, your rival is optimistic, supportive, mild, and cooperative. He has all the traits of an anime protagonist. Which calls for the theory that he might not be a rival, but you are.
I feel gen 5 nailed this formula for rivals. You have a slightly antagonistic friend rival and a good natured one. Most importantly a rival that would actually pick the type strong against yours. It’s okay to have the reverse but it shouldn’t be your primary rival
N is one of the best rivals in the series not becuase you battle him but also how he views the relationships between trainers and Pokemon. It takes multiple battles and showing how his cause has been taken over to have him consider new points of view as he grows to become your character's friend making this arc in the story all the more sweeter. That is one of the things I found Gen 5 to be fun and memorable.
Before I go through, do you by any chance have a link to the version of Acacia used in the opening? It sounds pretty good and I'd like to listen to it.
Description.
@@Mangakamen Oops, my bad, I looked in the description but I must have just NOT seen that. ^^;
s'all good
I'd love more rival deep dives from all over let's here toku, games whatever rivals you feel like goin into
N is honestly the culmination of what makes a good rival imo
"...It wasn't until later in Spear Pillar when he actually takes time to raise his team....."
Uh, I'm sure Barry was just busy slapping honey on honey trees in the meantime because he sent out a FREAKIN' MUNCHLAX as a lead in this very battle.
Do I need to remind everyone how TEDIOUS was getting a Munchlax in the Gen4 games?
Also considering Barry was one of the most impatient people in the whole franchise, I feel very astonished he had the patience to do the honey tree crap.
Or maybe he's just insanely lucky.
Great video i like everything of your style
I appreciate that
N was definitely more of a challenge and rival, he gave a good battle but his story also made you think every time you met up. When I was younger I thought blue and Gary were the same character. Really liking the rival videos Kamem! Maybe Mario rivals?
I love seeing your analysis of the rivals. I think for me it is probably Barry. Something about him is just entertaining. Seeing his growth from the loss at Lake Acuity is amazing. The dynamic team concept I agree is really great.
Never thought the video gonna start with Acacia. That alone already makes this video great
I just accidentally tapped on this video while checking my notifications and I don't regret it.
My favorite part in all of pokemon will forever be Hugh punching that team neo plasma grunt.
What really help N is that, unlike any other rival, he outright challenges the player on their inherent mindset towards the series' main conceit. Yeah, it doesn't go all that well since the games still have to behave as they do and neither your character or their Pokémon have much personality to work with, but it's something. You want to prove him wrong, not just scratch off another boring battle on the to-do list.
He does what a rival should do: challenge the main character and make them reevaluate what they believe so they can make real improvements.