Why Captain Jellico Is Actually Pretty Awesome
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Captain Jellico, Picard's replacement in the TNG season 6 two-partner "Chain of Command," gets a bum rap from his crew and from fans. Here's why he's actually pretty great.
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Jelico stopped a war and saved Picard. He came in and got the job done. He had no time to coddle everyone. He was an effective no nonsense leader. Riker, as usual, is a whiny brat
I agree but this was nothing that riker could have handled himself in my opinion, he’s dealt with higher risk shit than this.
I'm fairly certain that Riker as acting CPT would have saved Picard.
When Riker smugly says "Then ask me", I'd have responded with "Fukc you. SECURITY - place this man in brig for gross insubordination". 'Nuff said.
Absolutely. If Guinan was not there, he would unlikely have saved Picard if you can recall that dreaded low confidence speech he made to the crew.
And you can see why Cmdr Shelby in Best of Both Worlds two parter challenges Rikers position. " You stand behind Capt Picard allow him make tough decisions. If you can't handle responsibility. I suggest you step aside make room for someone who can" ...Cmdr Shelby.
You neglected to mention when Troi notes that Jellico is actually terrified of the situation with the Cardassians. Meaning he's put on a hard front for a very good reason -- to give the crew a sense of confidence in a situation that can go wrong in so many ways.
Exactly. In another episode Picard makes the same point to Dr. Crusher. They were mentally linked because of TechTech and while escaping he says, “go that way” and she responds, “wait, you don’t really know, do you?” He explains that sometimes a Captain needs to swallow their doubts and project confidence to the crew.
Not to mention that, as hard assed as Jellico comes across, he was actually trying to prevent a war. By admitting that Picard was on a clandestine mission, Riker would have CAUSED one.
I love Jellico based on the way Data acts differently under his command. Announcing "Captain on the bridge." etc…
Data has correctly read the way Jellico wants his bridge staff to operate and has adjusted accordingly.
My *favorite* scene: "Data, I want to be at Minos Korva in one hour."
Data doesn't hesitate, query, or speculate, he simply barks out the coordinates and calculated speed. Even his "Aye Sir" is in a different, no-nonsense tone. And Jellico just strolls by, confident he can rely on Data to actually follow his orders. It's awesome.
Yes, it's a wonder why so many in Starfleet wouldn't agree with an android in command. Surprised Jellico didn't offer him a permanent XO job after this mission...
Data is obviously the most competent officer in Starfleet. He's not perfect but he's damn close.
@@ZakEmber and when Commander Shelby goes behind Riker's back to the captain in the 2 part episode involving the Borg, Riker gets all bent out of shape about chain of command. Double standard much, Will?
Actually, Jellico was exactly what was needed in the situation they were in.
there's always more than one way to do something. Someways are easier than others, but the consequences afterwards are different.
I agree! Which is exactly why he was assigned this position.
I do think in any other situation this style of command would be terrible, and I'd be generally curious to see how he captained the Cairo day to day
@@Finbars9 I think it would have been different as he noted when he first took command of the Enterprise, he didn’t have the luxury of getting to know the crew and ironing out things. He needed to do things differently due to the circumstances.
I was glad to see Jellico shake up Rikers butt kissing way
I thought Jellico was a damn good commander. Being a military veteran, I thought his leadership was actually pretty standard.
Agreed
I agree completely and thank you for your service. From USN RET.
Agree 100%. Semper Fi.
To me he was not the Capt they wanted, he was the Capt they needed.
Picard is who you need during peace. Jellico is who you need during war.
They’re both needed to keep the Federation intact.
Unfortunately, the Federation is mostly at War. So both are needed for Tactics, Strategy and Peace Treaties.
I think Sisko wouldve gotten along with Jellico.
Yep
Shaw. Jellico. Sisko. The bad guys don't have a chance! (Now throw Kirk in there....)
Don't forget the part where the Cardies actually tell Jellico and friends they have Picard. Jellico is trying to play it cool and give nothing away and Riker just blurts out something like "OH CRAP IS HE OKAY!?"
Jellico must have been thinking "Holy shit dude, I can't imagine you ever actually winning any of those poker games".
The viewers must understand Captain Picard has the heart of an Explorer and Captain Jellico has the heart of a Soldier, naturally they run things different, and view their crew and missions differently
As someone who worked at many companies in legal or regulatory crisis, Jellico is what we call a "problem solver;" he's someone - mostly outside the box - brought in because of a singular talent to solve the problem(s) at hand. In this case, the Cardassian situation. Adm. Nechayev states bluntly that Picard is not experienced to deal with this crisis, and his skills are needed elsewhere. Picard is assigned to a specialist mission, Jellico is brought in to command Big-E. He's not there to make friends, he's not there to endear himself to the crew - he's there to unfuck a situation. He has knowledge of Cardassian psychology and politics, and he's not used to Picard's relatively laid-back manner in crew and operations management. Picard DELEGATES; he lets his officers own these processes and doesn't micromanage. Jellico, on the other hand, MUST micromanage, because it's clear even a raised eyebrow or misstatement could undo the delicate negotiations.
So, Riker and company are totally unprepared for Jellico's brusqueness. They see him as shaking up the status quo - Jellico is simply testing the limits of this crew and ship that he's to this point only vaguely familiar with. He needs the ship to be operational because things could go from discussion to weapons within minutes, and needs the crew responding appropriately. He knows this; Hell, he's EXPERIENCED this with Cardassians, and the rest of the crew doesn't need his understanding, they just need to follow orders.
In current times, these sorts of leaders don't last long. They come in, do a job, create some chaos (and in rare cases, a change for the better, vis-a-vis Troi adopting a more standard uniform given her role) and then depart. It was clear in Jellico's body language that when Picard returned, he couldn't leave fast enough. He knew he was an asshole, knew he was unwelcome, and was not someone the crew was going to miss. He was given a job, he did it, and he managed to restore the Enterprise to it's normal environment without more than a few days of unease and stress - despite the obvious PTSD Picard suffered under torture. Not all leaders are assholes, but sometimes an asshole is required to lead in a delicate situation.
Michael Cristel Exactly!
Pretty accurate. I've known plenty of guys like him and while they can be, on the surface, the biggest assholes you will ever meet they perform a very valuable function. I liked that his character showed the Star Trek universe isn't all squeaky clean and clinical. I appreciated that.
How is Picard not experienced? He's dealt with the Duras. He's dealt with Romulans. He's dealt with the Borg. He's dealt with the Cardassians as well. He's 100000% more qualified than Jellicho. Picard is Starfleet's most accomplished diplomat.
Bringing in someone unfamiliar with the Enterprise and throwing everything out of order actually endangered the Enterprise and its crew. Also why would you send Picard (one of the most accomplished and valuable members of the Federation) on a joke mission like that? And then hamstring him with a female doctor. No disrespect to her but you don't send doctors on black ops missions like that. Or females (typically). You send highly trained young males. They're fast and strong and sharp.
Why would you endanger Picard like that? Did you even apply any critical thinking towards this episode? It makes 0 sense.
Jellico is BY FAR my fav. Starfleet Capt. He came on board and the first thing he did upon meeting Riker was to say how much he looked forward to working with him and complimented him on his graduation standing (8th in his class) Note that he called everyone by their first names which is much less formal than Picard. Certainly he's a family man displaying and joking about his sons art work. He's courteous with Troi and listens carefully to her concerns. You can even see his face as he agrees with what shes saying however the timetable of the mission really DIDN'T allow for a "honeymoon with the crew" and Jellico knew that. He's efficient, like a Winston Wolf of Starfleet. His style is 100% professional. And as Riker (and even Geordi to some extent) found out he did not suffer someone talking back at him, scoffing, or postponing his orders until they were easier or more convenient to carry out. No good captain would accept that from any officer much less his FIRST officer! But later, when he talks with Geordi about Titans turn, you get the sense that if given enough time Jellicos warmer, easier going side would no doubt emerge. Ultimately he had a clever plan, implemented it efficiently and flawlessly and also saved Picard BTW.. handing his ship back to him with a humble "Maybe a little better" comment.. At the end he simply looked around, mentioned what an honor it was to serve with the crew and walked off the bridge like a fucking Pro. Jellico had ONE job to do and he did indeed "Get it done"
Well said. Despite it's high sounding philosophy BS, Starfleet is a military organization and when the Captain gives you a direct order, you say "Yes Captain".
You can be dismissed from a merchant ship for disobedience but I doubt they can put you in prison like Starfleet can.
I think there is so much dislike of Jellico due to all the Picard/Riker love. In a real life situation like they were facing I'd take Jellico over those two any day. Picard and Riker would rather talk an enemy into surrender to save their foes lives then fight them and since this is make believer, it works. Pity about all their low ranking crew who usually die before that happens.
I now use "get it done"...in my professional capacity, when encountering any resistance to my instructions...sometimes saying beforehand "there's no discussion here"...and it bloody well wotks!
I love the part where he makes basically the entire Cardassian Navy come out of the nebula, one by one, eject their primary phaser core and then warp away without their dicks. Hilarious.
"Take off that uniform and get back behind your desk, C3PO!"
- Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
Jellico got Troi to wear a damn uniform on the bridge after 7 freakin' seasons. Lol
And we all know Troi herself actually insisted on wearing an actual uniform behind the scenes. Wrote it into Jellico for her sake, and it fit the story!
And get that damn fish out of my ready room!!!
So, basically, Captain Jellico is everyones dad.
"And take off that slutty outfit! You're supposed to be a bridge officer, not wank-bait for the enlisted men. Yes, I know you call that 'being comfortable'. I call it being slutty. Take it off." -Jellico's opinion on yoga pants
“How many Cardassians does it take to change a lightbulb?”
“Four, because THERE...ARE....FOUR....LIGHTS”
It takes 0. They'd just get a Bajoran to change them.
You're evil.
I SO wish Jellico would have actually called Riker _"Dipshit."_
Riker was 100% wrong in this episode. I was *pissed* when Jellico basically had to beg Riker to come back and, y'know, _do his own job..._
Captain Jellico just proves how bad an officer Riker is.
I am a Primary Warfare Officer in the Navy and the Jellico story is 100% believable as a new boss trying to kick-start a section to have better readiness
I hope things stay cool with China though it does seem that they are willing to use force to assimilate Taiwan. Thank you for your service and your comment.
PRIMARY Warfare Officer? PRINCIPAL....surely.
USN?
Jellico got Troi out of the space cheerleader outfits. For that alone he is awesome
@@oddish4352 my point stands
Everything else Jellico did was debatable, but that single remark was marvelous because it swept away years of accumulated Roddenberry sexism about how Troi should speak, act and dress. She was nothing but a professional, multi-talented member of the command crew after that. No more of this "the crew needs to be comfortable with me, so I dress like something they saw in a wank dream once" shit. Jellico was the voice of the producers when they finally said "Enough is enough. You WILL grow as a character."
Also worth mentioning that Marina Sirtis had been uncomfortable with the slutwear for years, but never felt her place on the show was strong enough to push hard for a change (especially since Gates McFadden had gotten fired for doing the same). She's said repeatedly in interviews that she preferred the regular Starfleet officer uniform and felt it invigorated her character's potential.
My view of Troi was that her revealing clothes never undermined the strength of her character, at least once the show got going good. I can understand why her actress feels that way in the real world, but in the show it worked out great. In fact I always felt that Troi's pre-Jellico appearance was part of Star Trek ethos in terms of breaking free from real world judgments like "slutwear." Bottom line is that the real world as we know it is one thing, but the Star Trek ethos is another, especially TNG.
Her clothes were fine. Still it was Awesome to see her as an officer others had to look at as an officer.
Hey!! WTH?!! As a women loving man, i always loved Troi's cleavage uniforms. She got a grwat bod!!!
I served in the Marines for nearly a decade and deployed a few times on Navy ships. I 'got' Jellico. Jellico was a military-styled officer. He is used to "I have given my orders, I want them carried out, I have not time to sit around a conference table to explain why , or to hold anyone's hands through the ordeal. You are all Starfleet Officers....Get It Done!"
He did nothing wrong. He didn't ask for anything Herculean. His expectations were not outside of the norm. He was just different than what we were used to seeing on TNG.
IMHO Picard had been 'chilled out' and had gotten too lax in his leadership over the run of the TNG.
I had a Battalion Commander that was just like him. Hard ass, stressful at times to be under, but probably the best infantry officer/leader I'd ever seen. Very clear expectations, didn't tolerate less than excellence, but always fair.
Was Jellico going to issue the children on board with weapons and deploy them as cannon fodder as well as his engineering staff?
Data was able to reprimand Worf in the ready room in the two-part "Gambit" episode, so what was preventing Jellico from doing ghe same.
When a machine has better interpersonal skills than the human, the human is deficient.
@@Nehemiah_Scudder says someone who never served and thus will never understand.
Starfleet is like part military, part NASA, part diplomatic corps and scientific research agency and humanitarian aid organization. It is an organization that wears many hats and does many things. It cannot be seen exclusively as a military organization.
When conducting scientific and diplomatic missions you cannot be too rigid in your duties otherwise you flounder and cannot be successful science and diplomacy requires a more collaborative approach ( a reason why the Army did not make Manhattan project scientist members of the military hierarchy can erode that (some active duty did work on it not a lot)).
While In a military setting you cannot be too lax or you get people killed when the time comes for conflict.
Different mission requirements mean different kinds of commanders to succeed.
Some officers are more strategic others more tactical. Sometimes an officer will be shit in the field but great at senior level command, while others are great at tactical situations but poor at strategic command decision . Some are just better at seeing the forest but not the trees and vice versa.
As for Picard being lax as the show wore on. I think he knew as time went by the capability and talent of his senior crew and what they brought to the table on any mission and he had confidence in their ability and skill and had enough limit on his Ego to turn to their advice when needed. Picard is a well rounded officer and good tactician but Jellico is probably superior at tactical decisions processes than Picard.
I also liked Captain Jellico, for similar reasons. His style was less of "explorer/diplomat" that Picard utilized, and more the "warrior/diplomat".
An additional case in point: Riker was insubordinate and almost obstructionist. Data, on the other hand, responded to Jellico's needs with creative solutions. Captain Jellico recognized and rewarded that, because Data gave him his best.
his insistence on the four shifts wasn’t clear then but learning military history it makes sense: fresh crews ready to fight. instead of eight hours of work, you have six. the crew is better rested and ready for action which considering they’re on the verge of war is a good thing!
Riker was disobeying a direct order and sowing discourse among the crew, that’s inexcusable
Just rewatched and totally agree. Riker was openly hostile to Jellico the entire episode and when he gets a little pushback from the department heads about changing the shift rotation, he just doesn't do it and doesn't tell Jellico until he is questioned. There are several personnel systems in the 21st century let alone the 24th that could easily generate suggestions for creating an additional shift. As you said, it makes sense to have a faster crew rotation when you might be going into battle. It also provides a better quality of life for the crew.
LaForge also whined about having the staff work extra hours to get the ship ready. It isn't as if the ship was going to be in danger or anything.
@@meandmyEV the one who doesn’t voice concerns is the one who has that access to calculations that support the captain: Data. if it wasn’t doable then Data would have said so, yet the head of operations gave no indication that it was a bad idea.
@@bostonrailfan2427 Data, like Spock, are really wired for the 'cannot tell a lie' personality type.
"Spock, what are the odds of a royal fizzbin? (Our lives are really dependent on us getting through this.)"
"They've never been calculated, captain."
"Well, they're astronomical, believe me. (Thanks for not actively helping me here. I knew I could count on you to not trash my efforts at least.)"
His calculations should have let Data know what outcome and situation the captain was expecting they would be encountering in the future. I really empathise with Data here. It's a tough call even as a human on what to say; you do need to stay in line and it's rarely prudent to blab all your theoretical analysis to people. People love to diatribe on others' whose preferred types of fun and conversations include theoretical analysis.
HoWDarEyouHaveFun
BabbleringOnAbout
TheTopicOFThisVideo
YouFreakinGWierdOGeek.
Now, if Data were more like Troi, instead of like me, sure. He'd find some way to convert his knowledge into something where people may be interested in getting on board with it. Nobody is perfect. I am YAY old and I am still struggling with conversion. It is not fun times.
At the end of the day, Data has Riker. (I don't, I must be both Data and Riker to get anywere solid with my life goals.) The FIRST OFFICER should have been the one to check up with the Operations officer and do the conversions to get everyone on board; that's how their structure works. The First Officer was not open for this conversation, it seems.
"Christ Troi, put some fuckin' clothes on!"
"Not my forte."
I'm surprised that there are fans who consider him a "badguy". I always just accepted that he was this rude hard-ass, but that he knew what he was doing, even if we didn't have to like him.
I've been saying this for years. I'm just in the middle of another rewatch of TNG and I more carefully examined these episodes. Having been in the military, changing from a 3 watch rotation to a 4 watch rotation is not only better for the crew (allows them more downtime), but really shows a bit of Riker's poor management of the crew. Each departments Watch and Station Bill should detail out a 2, 3, and 4 watch rotation, so if they were properly done, changing watches from 3 to 4 should have been as simple as making a pot of tea, Earl Grey, hot.
Jellico is a combat commander. Picard is a diplomat and explorer.
Word.
Get behind your desk, C-3PO.
He's a character who actually shook shit up, which is something that's all too rare in Star Trek.
Like you say, he had a plan and it worked.
The tension between him and the rest of the crew is I think what they were trying to do with Picard in the early seasons, but they ended up scrapping that idea.
Captain Andy good point about Picard...hadn't thought of that, but it does make sense...now i can re-watch TNG (for the 157th time) in a new light...thanks!
Jellico is one of the most accurate description of a military officer I have seen, speaking as a prior military member. I would have liked to seen Riker punished for his insubordination
Jellico is the consummate military commander who puts the mission and the men/women first; this is probably why it doesn't jive with a lot of folks who don't get that emotions sometimes have to take a backseat in life or death situations.
I liked Jellico from the start. I had got out of the Navy like a year before, and I understood where Jellico was coming from. I thought from the start, this is the guy you want in command when the defecation strikes the atmospheric oscillator.
Marina Sirtis fought throughout the show's production to wear a uniform and the episode where she finally gets to her character is chastised for not wearing a uniform.
@@patrickhamos2987 why?
As a child of the 80s (I was five years old when _TNG_ came out, and I watched "Encounter at Farpoint" on broadcast TV with my parents when it came out), I saw him as a villain. Years later, through reruns and Netflix, my opinion changed to be like your's- Jellico's not a villain, he just has different priorities and command style. When you look at the production notes on these two episodes, that is _exactly_ what the writers wanted- a _different_ kind of Starfleet captain who is _not a villain,_ and can be just as equally competent and capable in this scenario as a series regular!
And, through a stroke of sheer _luck,_ the production _somehow_ got Ronny Cox cast as Jelico, so that the _audience's_ expectations would be deliberately clouded (i.e red herring) by the actor's previous _villainous_ roles. I mean, what a casting _coup_ that was at the time! XD
I remember reading somewhere about how Rick Berman got the script to Tom Cruz. Tom Cruz liked the script, but that was as far as it went. I can see Tom Cruz staring at Riker, and saying “you haven’t seen me angry yet“.
I am a 20 year veteran of the army with 4 combat tours totaling 3 years in combat. The right kinda of person for a job is rarely the nicest or even a good human being. If you were an admiral which one would you pick. Someone who prioritizes your goals amor another that does not. It’s not a close call.
I really enjoyed in that episode that two leaders can both be good at their job but be very different. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations right?
You are correct. And thank you for your service!
I felt like a great thing about this episode was that it showed how professional most of the crew was. Geordi worked his butt off to get the engines to Jellico's standards and Jellico clearly thought he was good at his job. Data, Dr. Crusher, Worf, even Troi, all handled the shake up well, embracing what they'd been told, and I was left with the impression that Jellico was warming up to them, and pleased with how well they were all doing. Yeah, it was a shake up, for sure, but the Flagship was full of professionals who could handle it. Riker, however, was the complete opposite, throwing a tantrum when he didn't get his way. Should've taken your own command, dude, then this wouldn't be a problem for you.
Riker was such a spoiled child...
He whipped the Enterprise crew in shape. Under Picard they got lazy.
Exactly. The Enterprise was the Federation's flagship, not a pleasure yacht.
He only asked her to wear a uniform when on the bridge as a command officer.
Didn't ask her to do counseling in riot gear.
Get back behind your desk C3PO! 😂
You are not alone. I know a real world US Army retired captain who has for many years insisted that Captain Jellico is the only Star Fleet Officer that he would want to serve under in the real world.
Exactly, he had 1 job to do and he did it perfectly, he wasn’t there to be a space dad to the Enterprise crew
Something I noticed is in later seasons after Chain of Command, the enterprise keeps the 4 shift rotation. There are a few references to Delta Shift in I think season 6 or 7
Captain Jellico really showed the difference between a Science/Exploration vessel and a War vessel/captain.
Even if Jellico hadn't actually been a highly effective federation officer, he'd have my thanks for saying "Hey, Troi, how would you like to stop wearing the bimsuit and be allowed to dress like a Starfleet Officer?" Sirtis is on record as being VERY grateful for that order. Also, I thought Cox himself nailed the role.
As someone who works in human resources, I think Jellico is perfect for proper chain of command. He is a great boss.
"Get back behind your desk c3po"
Classic
My biggest problem with this episode is that they send Picard a 60 year old captain, Dr. Crusher and Worf on this secret mission. I know the Federation is supposed to be peaceful at this point but you're seriously telling me that they don't have a commando/special ops team to handle this mission?
They needed Picard because of his expertise in that substance they found--can't recall what it was. But yeah--I agree with you with Crusher. Ridiculous choice.
What bugged me most about this episode was the idiotic move of Star Fleet to send a captain, a chief medic and a chief of security off on a spy mission. Send three trained spies to do that and leave these three experts free to keep doing what they've proved they're great at. My suspension of disbelief was strained to the breaking point and I was disgusted with another sign of the writers running out of ideas and/or being pushed into writing stupid stuff in a bid to prop up flagging ratings.
That's kind of the whole premise of Star Trek, though. If the Federation used the people with the right skills for every job, the characters we know would basically have dull office jobs, staffing the bridge, main engineering, and the cousellor's office every day, ordering sending anonymous red shirts off to do all the plot stuff.
I was about to comment the same thing haha
The premise is typically they form away teams on the fly to handle certain situations but normally they aren't receiving orders from higher up to go on black ops
And not just a captain, but THAT captain. Picard, captain of the flagship of the Fleet, the pride of Starfleet and their Number 1 ship. Picard, famous throughout the galaxy, known and respected by aliens far and wide - and even feared as a force to be reckoned with by some.
Starfleet Command: "Hey, I got an idea. Let's take Picard off his ship and send him on a secret spy mission deep into Cardassian territory. What could go wrong?"
@@The2wanderers A show where they have a constantly changing group of expendables being sent out on horrifically dangerous missions (with a lot of them failing to come back) but focusing on the psychological damage it does to the commanders that have to send them out would be pretty interesting.
Jellico was 100% a dick. But that doesn't mean he was a bad Captain. He was a very different sort of Captain from Picard, who was a diplomat. Jellico was a warrior.
Jellico was taking a crew that had been on a mostly diplomatic mission, making first contacts and exploration and turning them rapidly into a combat crew.
I know a guy who was a Marine Corps drill instructor. He had a recruit who was grinning ALL the time. No matter how much this guy was yelled at, no matter how much this guy was singled out, he just seemed to love it more and more.
My friend "asked" the guy what he was ginning about, (I'm not quoting directly. I can't remember the exact words) and this guy basically said, "You are teaching me how to survive in combat. How can I not love that?"
My friend was stunned. In all his time in that job, he had never had anyone who had this (quite correct) point of view.
Turning a civilian into a solder is not a pleasant process, but doing it badly is even more unpleasant. It has been proven that this unpleasant process works, and it works well.
To do the job Jellico is doing, you *HAVE* to be a dick.
You don't have to be, but that was his style and he was successful at it. Like they say, there are plenty ways to skin a cat.
I want to hear all of TNG redubbed by Steve narrating it.
That actually would be cool. Actually liked the narrative here.
"Well he's pretty good if you give him a chance"
Jellico "You know what I think is pretty good? Starfleet Officers who do their jobs" XD
Jellico was a HARD reminder how spoiled the Enterprise crew was.
What I loved about this episode was how the crew of the Enterprise rose to Jellico's expectations (except Riker). Geordi pulls double shifts to get things going, Dr. Crusher gets her medical staff rearranged, Troi accepts the new regulations and works to assist Jellico as best she can; they all act like professionals who take on the challenge and meet the new Captain's demanding expectations. Jellico is clearly pleased with Data and Geordi's work in particular. I still think it highlights how great the senior staff on the Enterprise is though: even when faced with a difficult transition, almost all of them manage it with professionalism; it's the kind of co-workers and staff you'd dream of having.
Had this been a real ship, Riker would have been transfered off and Data likely would have been the permanent xo.
Troi told Jellico about how the crew was feeling and going through and then Jellico told her why he had to be the way he was. Troi didn’t push back but accepted his explanation and did her duty. Jellico made sure to compliment and encourage the crew so that they would know he appreciated their hard work and recognized it.
And I totally AGREE, whoever served in special forces can attest that in military command you need someone like Jellico. Don't forget that the crew of the Enterprize and the ship itself are considered to be creme de la creme. They needed someone to remind them of structure and discipline and how it is to be pushed to your limits and beyond. The federation brought in a green beret commander for that job specifically
I am eternally grateful to the guy solely for putting the counselor in a uniform. Seriously. I think I actually cheered when it happened.
I wonder how Jonathan Frakes feels about the way Riker was written in these episodes (as a whiny little bitch). I think Riker would have adapted to Jellico immediately, and whipped any other whiners into shape. Jellico is the ST character I would most like to see brought back (not including Prodigy).
I remember watching this episode a few times. I agree with your presentation, but I would like to add one thing. In the end, what made Jellico an effective commander was that he knew that he himself had to change, had to be a little flexible, and a little understanding of the true meaning of loyalty, and Picard had earned that loyalty. The mistake that Jellico made was coming in with all guns blazing", which automatically made for unease and anger with the crew.
I love Jellico for one reason: He told Troi to put on a damn uniform! And btw, she continued to do so most of the time even after he left! 😊
After seeing how good Marina Sirtis looks in that uniform it makes me wonder why she didn't start wearing it a long time ago.
Jellico commanding the Enterprise demonstrates the fundamental failing of the combining the military and scientific exploration/diplomacy. Jellico is someone who would shine rightly in command of a naval vessel patrolling the border. The clashes that occurred framing him as an anatagonist stem from the Enterprise crew being scientific explorers and diplomats who don’t think like military officers.
I assume he commanded with distinction during the Dominion War, while the Enterprise were off doing whatever Insurrection was.
That makes sense. He's the commander the Federation needed for this mission but not the commander the Federation wants on the Enterprise in times of peace.
@@stuartbaxter-potter8363 yeah he wouldn’t foster the collaborative intellectual debate and discussion the Enterprise needs for unwrapping its mysteries and ethical dilemmas. But he’s exactly who you want in charge staring down a rival imperial power at the border.
My main issue with Jelico was….what’s his problem with Picard’s fish? It’s a pretty cool fish?
ikr what did the lionfish ever do to him
I've been binging TNG at work for the last few months. Just watched this two parter yesterday. I haven't seen it in years. Honesty, it was better than I remember.
I do agree with you about Jellico. I liked his confrontational personality and more aggressive negotiation tactics. Plus, his more militaristic way of running things. As someone who has been in the military, the 4 shift rotation is actually better. I mean three 8hr shifts in a 24hr period is rougher than four 6hr shifts in a 24hr period.
Not to mention upping the warp core efficiency and routing deflector dish power to the weapons systems. Which in hindsight would give the Enterprise a force to be reckoned with.
Also, I think Riker had a bigger underlying problem with Jellico. The fact that Jellico was put in command of the Enterprise over himself with Picard's temporary reassignment.
I totally agree. I've always liked Jellico. He was the right man for the job
Jellico turned their pleasure cruise in a proper run military ship ready for extended combat. It what was needed in this situation.
Troi looks better in the normal outfit anyway, IMO.
I'm all for personal choice in what one wears, but I'm also equally sure that Troi is a fictional character who had that low-cut outfit put on her for reasons NOT of her own choice, but rather what the costume designer thought would get the attention of a certain demographic.
There was literally one person responsible for Troi's outfit: Gene Roddenberry. He was a famously sexist lecher and since he handpicked the producers and directors for the first two seasons, they felt compelled to enact his "vision". Troi was a wasted and marginalized "token skirt" until Roddenberry finally died and they purged all his loser toadies from the producer roles. That's also when Gates McFadden came back, and coincidentally when the series improved. Her being ordered to wear a uniform that actually respects the Federation's ideals of equality and professionalism was a massive upgrade for her character: big mean ol' Jellico actually told her she was more valuable as an officer than a piece of eye candy. Space Humanist Picard never did that...
I just re-watched the episode. Riker basically ingores the first order from Jellico to change the duty roster. Geordi also questions his orders even though Data said it was achievable basically, Geordi was whining about it being too much work. If I was Jellico, I wouldn't not be too happy with the command staff either. Had Riker and LaForge simply said, "Yes Sir" and did what they were ordered to do, the relationship would have been better. Jellico is the Captain. It's up to the First Officer and Chief Engineer to adjust to the new Commanding Officer, not the other way around.
Nope, at no point did Riker ignore orders coming down the chain of command. Jellico wants a 4 shift rotation, that's fine, but when he comes on board Picard is still the captain and remains so until the change of command ceremony. Riker literally can't change the shift rotations without subverting Picard's authority until that point, and when that point arrives he has already gotten his ducks in a row in order to get it done, which we know because he gets it done after Jellico first gives him the order as Riker's commanding officer.
LaForge obviously isn't happy about having his entire staff working 48 hours straight to make the changes Jellico wants, but we find out a few scenes later that Jellico (having been informed by both his Chief Engineer and his Ops officer that this much labour would be needed for the job) almost immediately transfers a third of engineering to security. Given the stated journey time to the rendezvous with the Cardassians, Jellico absolutely guarantees that the Enterprise-D will arrive with its secondary distribution grid offline and its warp coils decidedly not realigned and their efficiency still only at regulation levels.
You'll also note that Jellico angrily tells Riker that he should just "get it done" whenever he issues an order and that he "doesn't want to talk about it", but then when Riker launches the ordered probe on time and just gets it done and doesn't talk about it with Jellico, Jellico badmouths Riker to Picard for doing *exactly* as he told Riker to proceed when it comes to his orders just a few hours earlier.
My biggest problem with this episode isn't Jellico or Ryker. So the admiral has a rendezvous with the Enterprise to relieve Picard of command and to inform him of his covert mission. Now surely The Federation would have specially trained "Seal Teams" for just such missions, right?? Why didn't she bring a team along with her, transfer them to the Enterprise and let Enterprise deliver them to their mission. So you want Picard to lead the team, ok fine. I would even concede Worf could be on that team, too. But Dr. Crusher??? You send A Chief Medical Officer and not someone specially trained for difficult covert missions??? That's absurd! I would imagine Seal Teams would have some medical training for emergencies, right??
Agreed, it is the equivalent having US Admiral Nimitz doing a field mission with marines in World War II, it is a grossly inappropriate use of a senior officer of such importance to the Navy.
@@kchishol1970 maybe it was bait to get them distracted and a false sense of having the upper hand, to get them into negotiations otherwise it makes no sense.
The episode explained very well that the Romulans designed an extremely specific trap. The Romulans choose the team members, Starfleet simply fell for it.
This is one of the reasons I liked the MACO's in Enterprise.
You guys keep forgetting: Starfleet WAS NOT a Military Organization. It was at best an organization with some military training. As far as grabbing Worf and Crusher, they were sending in an expendable team. Though Crusher was Main Caste, in a military/faux military organization she would have been considered expendable.
The only good thing that came out of Jellico’s stint as captain of the Enterprise was getting Troi to wear a standard uniform.
that sucks i like her purple dress
Troi's slut-wear was a sad remnant of Roddenberry's influence. The old duffer couldn't imagine a perfect future with drugs, theft or social conflict, or without vapid, token, scantily-clad women around to provide eye candy and "comfort" for the all-male command staff to leer at on the bridge and occasionally consult for estrogen-driven blather. Troi got a proper uniform and proper respect right around the time Roddenberry assumed room temperature, which was fine with me. The series needed a little less wood-paneled 50's California hypocrisy if it wanted to actually become the bellwether for the future of humanity.
I would find it interesting seeing Jellico confronted by Q.
He might pull a Sisko and try to shoot him with a phaser.
He's just go full Sisko....
THUMP!
Q : "Ow, Jean-Luc never hit me",
Jellico - "I'm not Picard either, now get off my ship".
It's always fascinated me how Ronny Cox who, by all accounts of his co-stars and random folks who have met him, is one of the nicest and most genuine people you'll ever meet...always plays complete assholes, villains and upfront bastards.
Now I am drawn to liking and hating Jellico, liking him because he's Ronny bloody Cox and hating him because that's the framework the episode feeds us...
I liked Picard over Kirk, because he was a more plausible military commander. Capt. Jellico was that and more so. You can't do a series with a Jellico as your lead, but those guys are the backbone of any para/military organization. Picard is the Enterprise; Jellico IS Starfleet - to him, the Enterprise is only a tool of the Federation - as ANY starfleet ship is, at the end of the day.
“Take off That red uniform and get back behind your desk, C-3PO” is maybe the best line I’ve heard on RUclips ever.
Jellico was actually created as a potential long term replacment. Patrick Stewart was renegotiating his contract. All the conflict the character of Jellico brought in would have set up a significant amount of character development arcs had Stewart not returned and Ronnie Cox stayed on. I really liked Patrick Stewart, but I wonder how the show would have turned out if they had gone on that path not taken.
And I think everyone liked it better when Troi stated wearing uniforms again.
Jellico is actually a real captain. More militaristic than the explorer type of captain, but by all seen and portrayed he is a real captain. His negotiating tactics and plan for the Cardassians are top in those episodes. Practically, it turned out that the main team (Riker, Troi, La Forge etc) from the enterprise is incapable of working with anyone but Picard, and that's bad. Whoever has worked in some systems of command hierarchy in his life knows that people like Jellico are the most trusting, and a crew that can't get used to change is no good. In reality it is solved by rotations and changes. Regarding Riker, Comm. Shelby in Best of both worlds, told him whole truth.
Yeah, it's clear that Riker might not have had the ability to send any of his friends to their deaths, and he'd clearly not taken the Command examination with the personnel he'd become way too involved with. One of the best scenes in an otherwise shitty movie (U-571) was Bill Paxton explaining why he didn't think his XO (played by Matt McConaghey) was command material.
I never understood why StarFleet would send the CO of it's flagship along with the ships doc and tactical officer on a Special Ops mission. This is like sending an Aircraft Carrier Captain, the CO of the air group and the ships doctor on a mission instead of a Navy Seal team. Doesn't Star Fleet have any special operators?
They should have kept the MACOs from the 22nd century. Or maybe let Section 31 handle it
It's the same thing as what happens in DS9 with the Siege Of AR558. Starfleet doesn't seem to have any permanent ground forces, let alone special forces. The closest we ever see is on DS9 with the Siege of AR558, and the 'troops' there are woefully equipped for a ground battle, they look like little more than generic Starship officers, there's no actual soldiers or enlisted. In the back story O'Brien fought as a Soldier in the Cardassian War before moving to the Enterprise & DS9, despite having been a highly trained Engineer? No wonder they lost Betazed in half a day.
Because Starfleet is a cluster fuck.
I was in the Army for 4 years and what Jellicoe did, especially the idea of doing things his own way and not caring about how it was done before, is pretty much SOP when there's a change of command.
@@richardmoores Standard Operating Practice
Absolutely real!
You know what I enjoy? Not getting murdered by Cardassians, that's what I enjoy.
Jellico is the Sherman Potter to Picard's Henry Blake.
MASH made a point for everyone to get used to different leadership styles. You really see it when Klinger becomes the new clerk. I think the camp bonded better under Potter.
Jellico was great in this situation and kicked Cardassian ass and saved Picard while he was at it. He's a brilliant war-time captain. Totally not the right kind of guy for exploration and Darmok-y shit.
Jellico was in the right. As a military commander he ultimately decides how his ship runs. Riker Refusing to follow orders should have got him a courtmartial
Agreed
I think in the episodes in which Starfleet is actually at war that might be more or less accurate in-universe, but Starfleet does work differently than any real world military and that’s demonstrated on screen. I mean for one thing, you can resign at any time you want to and just disembark at the next space station or Starfleet base. Multiple times, characters just say “I gotta quit, bye.” Worf feels the call to fight for the Klingon Empire and just takes off from the Enterprise, and Starfleet lets him, no AWOL, no courtmartial. So maybe on the other hand, there are other ways that Starfleet is more lenient than our world’s militaries. And it should be! Starfleet’s main purposes are exploration, emergency response, and diplomacy. The Federation tries it’s best to act as a post-war society, and Starfleet only takes up the function of a military fleet when there’s no diplomatic solution and no other way to protect it’s people. These are all explorers, scientists, diplomats, archeologists, and doctors who are temporarily acting as soldiers.
@@abanana5289 Which ends up actually making them very difficult to predict and control by their enemies. When you get into a war with Klingons and Cardassians they are going to start bombing your stuff; get into a war with the Federation and there's no telling what kind of weirdness they might try.
I don't think Jellico was suppose to be hated. Just a subverted expectation back when it was supposed to mean something.
The military man stepped in when he was necessary. Had humility when it was necessary. Was a hardass when it was necessary.
If Jellico were a nationalist maniac he would have sacrificed Picard and taken control of the Enterprise. But he simply did his job under the strict order of procedure. And it all worked out. Almost like his job and the process of doing it works.
I clicked on this video, realized I’d watched this already like months ago. I watch it again anyway because it’s just that good. Great commentary, as always.
Jehayland 3rd watch for me.
I've had several bosses who are exactly like Captain Edward Jellico and I found them to be easy to get along with, mostly because I'd meet their demands instead of sulking about it. Jellico meant business and he wasn't discreet about his intentions.
I found that to be less passive-aggressive than what the test of the command staff had become accustomed to.
what i found awesome about that character, is that i expected him to be showed up by the crew and his ass handed to him. he would apologize and and concede that his methods were too severe. but no. as the episode continued, i found myself siding with jellico. in the end he could have dropped the mic and exited.
Jellico is a great Officer, but his problems were in communication. He kept his plans to himself - which when your team is in the dark, causes problems. He is an Island, but there's a line between being overly familiar and too aloof. Picard strikes the balance well. He listens to options and when he makes a decision - it's final, but he at least explains his reasoning. He holds senior briefings and many a time calls "Thoughts?" or "Options?" This is the fundamental difference, Jellico would call the briefing as "here's what you are going to do" - which in some situations like this one is necessary, but other times? It could be catastrophic. If he isn't given alternative options or approaches. If Picard is leading men to certain death, he inspires them, they would go with him out of loyalty and trust. Jellico would command them to it and they would follow out of duty.
Being more authoritative like Jellico, but flexible like Picard in perfect balance would be Sisko. He needs a tight grip on the Station, he needs to keep order on a melting pot of Trained Starfleet professionals, Ex Guerilla fighters and the slyest con-men this side of the Gamma Quadrant - but he is Flexible too. His presence is intimidating, but he listens to advice and utilizes the resources at his disposal. Jellico didn't even consider Riker for the Shuttle mission because of his pride and stubborness. Riker is the best pilot. So he should have instantly gone to him regardless. His pride and stubborness work under fire, but they can be dangerous tools
I don't think they were *that* much in the dark, they just didn't approve of the changes he was making, but as Jellico told them 'I'm not here to make friends and I don't have time to ask for your opinion' more or less.
Honestly, this episode was very strange in showing the core Enterprise crew acting extremely unprofessional. So much of the complaints by the crew was literally, "But this is the way we've always done it" is the lamest excuse ever.
Entering the situation at the start of the episode was a potential powder keg for war. Starfleet was going to put Picard off into an unwise secret operation. So they tap an experienced hand to captain the Enterprise during this crisis. Jellico was the man.
There was no time for Jellico to have a leisure cruise to get to know the crew better. No. He was hastily put in command of a vessel for a situation that could possibly put the Federation and Carassian Union into war. They know the screwy games the Cardassians like to play. They sent Jellico to deal with the situation.
Of course, my view is also with the fact I've been in the military. Did so for 20 years. There's 2 goals of military leadership: Mission Accomplishment and Troop Welfare. That's it. I've had leaders of different echelons of command with wildly different styles of leadership and personalities. The only things that matter were those 2 goals.
Jellico came in on short notice to command the flagship of Starfleet in a crisis to deal with the Cardassians. He had his actions and plans carried out and was ultimately successful despite his own crew being uncharacteristically unprofessional as hell.
Frankly, Riker behaving like he did should have been busted down but Jellco elected not to. As Executive Officer he was purposely undermining the Commanding Officer and should have been punished harshly.
You're 100% right. Jellico IS pretty awesome.
When STTNG was on, I was still serving in the US Navy as a reserve officer, and had spent 4 years on active duty on a cruiser. What I liked the most about STTNG was that it far more accurately depicted the hierarchical nature of a ship's chain of command. When the "Chain of Command" 2 part-er came on, I was struck by how realistic Jellico was as a representation of most of the senior officers I served under while on active duty. Didn't have to like the guy. Just had to respect his ability to get things done, and his far greater military bearing than other characters in the show. So, I actually agree with your assessment, Steve!
Not to sound like a mister know-it-all but just so you know in the Star Trek community TNG, is the accepted shorthand. Mainly so you don't have to type those two extra letters. But I definitely agree with your opinion Jellico is a wartime consigliere LOL!
6:00 Also, if Riker had fired on the Borg Cube before they had adapted their ship, they might have destroyed it, killing Picard, but saving 29 Federation ships (and their crews). Riker made the wrong choice on this one, and that mistake had devastating consequences.
Riker was loyal to Picard first, which was wrong.
In history the leader would have subordinate who loyalty is unquestioned to the point of killing their leader if asked.
Jellico was the captain they needed, not the one they deserved.
Riker was a complete dick and Jellicoe WAS right in terms for protecting the federation.
Picard signed up and knew the risks.
Ronny Cox was a good guy in Beverly Hills Cop.
Jellico was great -- if they had killed off Picard and made Jellico the star of the series for a few years, I would have been fine with that. And I loved that Troi continued wearing her Starfleet uniform for the rest of the series, even after Jellico left.
And that was the peak Ronny Cox period -- between "RoboCop," "Total Recall," and "Stargate: SG-1." Any sci-fi production is elevated when he shows up.
And of course it was really Marina Sirtis who wanted to stop being forced to wear a leotard to work every day which is why she continued wearing the uniform after Jellico had left.
My Troi not wearing a uniform theory/assumption is that because she’s a therapist she dresses in a way that puts people at ease. She doesn’t look like just another coworker.
I know if my therapist wore a military uniform I would probably feel less comfortable pouring my heart out.
It is an actual therapy thing to keep the room and the appearance welcoming and comforting.
So you have Starfleet officers who are highly trained to handle a large number of crazy situations in space from war to messed up space anomalies and you think they can't handle a fellow Starfleet officer wearing a uniform they all agreed to wear? "I'm sorry counsellor, I've seen and experienced so many effed up stuff but I just can't handle you in that same uniform I'm wearing."
@@jayallen81 it’s not about not being able to handle it. It’s just psychology. People have trouble talking about trauma (you know, from all the anomalies and transporter accidents) so making the environment have as few reminders as possible the better 🤷♀️
So you think the USN psychiatrists should wear civilian clothes while on duty? It would be great if all military shrinks dress like hookers. The idea of a ship counselor being on the bridge is just ludicrous! Even worse is having families on ships. That's like having families aboard the navy task force during the Battle of Midway.
Edward Jellico- the Dwight Shrute of Star Fleet. Terrible for morale and more than willing to injure his coworkers, but also ruthlessly efficient, and a fan of modest women's clothes.
Jellico wasn't the captain they deserved, but he was the one they needed right now.
They got a better captain than they deserved. They were soft, and undisciplined.
A lesser show would have set Capt. Jellico up to fail and delivered a heavy-handed moral about Riker being right and Jellico being wrong.
But TNG delivers a more realistic take and leaves it up to the viewer. Jellico probably wouldn’t be a good long-term captain for the Enterprise and that team would likely start to break up with Will Riker being the first to leave. But for the particular situation they were in, it’s hard not to argue that Capt. Jellico had the right approach.
As trivia about the episodes, I read somewhere that they used the shake up of a new captain to make some changes the cast was asking for. Patrick Stewart wanted to get rid of the fish in the ready room as he felt it was inconsistent with Picard’s and Starfleet’s values to keep a living being in captivity. Marina Sirtis wanted Troi to grow beyond being the show’s eye candy hence the order for her to be in uniform.
Being from a military background. Spot on agree to what you said. Hard asses always get a shitty rep for doing the right thing and pissed on when people don't get their way. Happens all the time even in today's military.
I'm a simple man. I see a video about Captain Jellico, I subscribe.
The only Starfleet officer in 50 years shown acting like a ship's Commanding Officer.