I would be just so happy if they used RT and AI alus for sth gameplay related, like AI thinking differently in different room. Human brain maps thought processes to rooms at home.
It's the performance I would worry about... That's really the main thing people have been begging for for years now. 60fps minimum and better resolution!
@wrathpsp About resolution, I've been playing wukong pt on 650p>1080p on fsr 3.1.3. It's usable. Looks better than cyberpunk 1440p fsrp in fsr 2.2 era. Dlss should be even better.
i'd rather have no RT at all, but well done graphics, with 60fps and good resolution. RT will only stress the hardware. not only on Switch 2, but in every console of this generation. focus on level of detail, less popup, more polished graphics etc. leave RT for the next generation, it will be much better performance-wise!
Jeez DF is truely obsessed with ray tracing... I'd rather have no RT at all and 1080p 60fps without upscaling, than half assed ray tracing with flickering reflections and noisy illumination.
Exactly what came to my mind as well, Nintendo always made games that punch above their weight on that hardware they were running on, just look at Metroid Prime 4 trailer, that was running on Switch, using midrange tablet APU from 2015
Let's be honest - the sort of things suggested there with ray tracing to change gameplay really doesn't require hardware RT. The thing with RT as a graphical technology is you have to trace like 1 ray per pixel, so like a million times every single frame for even just 720p. But checking if a switch or a creature or a character is in/out of light would require like 2 or 3 rays per frame. And a fully dark environment lit realistically just by a local light source is considerably easier if that space is constrained. You could pretty easily do a voxel-based GI solution that would look really good without resorting to RT. If we're talking about Nvidia features that would really help this console I'm more interested in DLSS and a newer version of NVENC allowing for 1080p clip recording.
I for one hope they focus on well optimised, polished 60fps engines FIRST- then worry about RT *IF* there’s any headroom left. RT is ‘nice to have’ but NOT by sacrificing performance! Especially on a handheld 😉
Nintendo always hit 60 when they think it matters for gameplay. Like in Mario. Stuff like Zelda, they just decided other things were more important. Overall though, Nintendo has mostly served up 60fps experiences. It's only the switch that's really got away from 60fps. Even then, they hit it when it's absolutely vital. Metroid, Mario, Smash, Splatoon, Mario Kart etc It'd be great to see Zelda and Xenoblade at 60 tho. But would I take a 30fps mode with RT global illumination in Zelda... Probably
I think if they do a game with ray tracing, it's going to be a new IP with gameplay based entirely around dynamic lighting, and tightly designed around a smooth frame rate, so something minimalistic. I wouldn't expect, say, a new Mario game based around rt because of performance concerns.
Always amazing how many people you find whining about RT on a tech page that has dozens of videos showing exactly why it's useful and what it can offer that traditional hardware is just not physically capable of. Nintendo has generally been on top of consistent performance in their first party titles, so I would imagine if they did incorporate RT, they'd be doing it in a way that worked well with the limitations of the Switch 2 hardware.
legit, not to mention its nvidia hardware which has a significant advantage in rt vs amd. Raster performance might be lower than ps5, but i could see dlss and lower res targets making up the difference, as well as rt being less taxing on the hardware.
I think it would be cool, to have the continued simple art styles of Nintendo, so not a high resolution necessary, but use the power available for really good environmental effects.
That's why RT so suitable for Nintendo art style games. Looks at Fortnite RT. So beautiful. Realistic art style games if use RT will impact heavy on performance, unlike colorful art style games
Yeah I like what John's said. I mean they don't have to like make an entire game Ray Traced, they could just do like a puzzle or room based around the technology. I'm not particularly interested in say Ray Traced like reflection on the metal of the Karts in Mario Kart. They can use it in a way that might actually lead a new example.
I'm still surprised we've only seen RT used for lighting. Doom Eternal teased using RT like we've never seen and then delayed the feature and ultimately landed on shadows and reflections. I hope Nintendo will add creative RT features in their published games. Maybe a ray gun that bounces off surfaces to collect their light colors
I wouldn't bet on RT being used on multiplatform games, but just like Spiderman had RT reflections while still running at 60fps on PS5, and Indiana Jones even has RT features on Series S, I imagine Nintendo could have RT on first party titles and still keep a good performance
RT has some worthwhile use if your gameplay requires mirrors and maybe even some accurate caustics. Only reason the Switch 2 will have RT and AI is because it’s a standard part of Nvidia’s architecture. No different than RDNA on AMD APUs where there isn’t enough RT performance to matter unless you keep things low res and have the bandwidth to back it up.
I hope they do have RT (even if its in a lesser state). Most of the comments complaining about performance are obnoxious.. if were talking about "holding back generational leaps in graphical fidelity" , the pissing and moaning about Ray Tracing has to come to an end. On a side note i hope more games require RT capable GPUs, like what indiana jones did. Its time to push forward.
That's actually one of the weakest implementations of RT, on the PS5. I wouldn't equal its power in raster to be equal to RT performance for a weak RDNA1.5 implementation where AMD wasn't strong with RT at all. Switch 2 could very well be more capable than a PS5 in RT, and many times consoles go forward in tech a bit, and with Nvidia about to release Blackwell, we will see what advances they make in RT. For their 40 series they had features like shader execution reordering, among other improvements for RT, so Nvidia and a Switch 2 could really come out strong. I also don't think Nintendo style games would need as much advanced RT as the consoles that shoot for realism and need a lot of compute just for their software designs in general. Maybe even do hybrids instead of a full blown RT implementation, lower res reflections... also Switch 2 will have ray reconstruction through DLSS which PS5 has nothing close in comparison. It makes a big difference, I was just looking at ray reconstruction the other day and it really brings out RT to look vibrant with a wow factor, without a performance hit that I could tell.
@@Mcnooblet switch 2 will be close rtx 3050 which is still too weak for RT and it simply isnt worth it to turn on RT on these lower end cards even though they are better at raytracing than AMD for example. And what nvidia releases next is irrelevant because those cards wont be inside swich 2.
PS5 isn't great at RT... Nvidia's RT performance is significantly better and being that switch 2 would only have to target modest native resolutions then RT could be very usable. Given that switch 2 GPU is ~66% of the performance of an RTX 3050 it could make use of it but i think the vram amount will be the deciding factor.
I feel like the whole gaming industry is focusing on the wrong thing which ray tracing. It requires too much processing power, low fps, hot device, stutter and yet it doesn’t make huge impact on the visual. You have to stand still to appreciate the live reflections otherwise you won’t notice when things are in motion.
Ray tracing really has multiple forms. Extremely watered down forms, which don't impress very many for the performance hit it cost. Then you have full blown path tracing which is transformative in person, less on RUclips. I love native resolutions and high fps too, but when I toggle path tracing off in Cyberpunk, the lighting ends up looking wierd and bland. I'm not a fan of reflections in general, or even general shadows, but global illumination and even ambient occlusion can look really nice with how light spreads out across a room rather than a linear light revealing a room looking like a box with a laser beam light shining into it. Probably best not to know the difference, just like if you are use to 30fps, best not to get use to 60fps because you'll look down on 30fps after you get use to 60fps. Of course when it comes to RT, you have other factors like someones display with shoddy HDR where none of the image will look great anyways regardless of accurate lighting with IPS gray all over the place.
I think people are too quick to discount the idea of Nintendo supporting ray tracing. For starters it's beginning to become a vital part of some games presentation which will only become more the case in the next few years so it's fundamentally not a bad idea for the switch to have some hardware RT support. And the person who asked this question is right. Even if the switch to is kind of underpowered I bet Nintendo could do some pretty great and innovative stuff with the tech. That's kind of their thing. If the next generation of Nintendo hardware doesn't support hardware RT, then the one after certainly should at the very least.
Why are they so obsessed with 5W for Switch 2 in portable mode? That's around the amount the Switch OLED draws when fully stressed. OG Switch is closer to 7W. And this system is a far bigger one (8in tablet), and also probably on a node like TSCM4 due to sheer size/risk of power leaking (Samsung 8 does not scale down in power draw to 500Mhz, I'm sorry)
hx370 handhelds do 30W and probably 60W docked. It's not because they want to, it's because price/perf is much better. I cross my fingers for 30W docked mode for switch. I can see them run in 24fps to 'unlock' power of gpu otherwise.
If we see significant RT in switch titles, I hope it’s used to advance gameplay. A mario game or something 2.5d with low enough performance overheads should be able to handle RT dynamic lighting in a fun way.
In Luigi's Mansion 3 they favored graphics over performance, and because the camera is fixed and moves slowly the 30fps doesn't hinder the gameplay, I can easily see the next Luigi's Mansion using RT GI and/ or RT Shadows (screen space reflections was good enough for how the camera is positioned in 3)
Too early to talk about something that isn't announced yet, switch hasn't been discontinued yet and they don't need first party titles to secceed. They could address its performance once it is released , it could be a leap ahead of what we know of their past hardware being underpowered.
Current Nintendo has 16 Watts aku and around 3 hours battery life. If they put at least 25 Wats aku they can afford using 7-10 Watts per hour. 25 Wats are not much, every modern smartphone has this aku size, but usually more
Does anyone seriously think that Nintendo, a company that prioritises selling garbage hardware at high margins, will implement ray tracing with their next console?
On one hand, I don't want the performance hit that comes with RT and I don't care about how it looks (frankly, at lower quality levels I think it looks significantly worse than older techniques - it's a very all-or-nothing tech for me). On the other hand... let's face it, games are being developed with RT in mind more and more frequently, and that isn't going to be slowing down. If the Switch 2 doesn't have it (or just isn't particularly good at it), ports are going to be ROUGH in very short order because games will increasingly be designed with RT as a base assumption. This CAN be worked around... but as we've seen from Switch ports over the years, plenty of devs aren't willing or able to put in that much extra work.
I'm still waiting for the xbox series x version of minecraft to have raytracing like they said it would before it released, doubt anybody is getting that on a portable system
Yeah, but then, devs will enable Unreal RT on the switch 2....which would tank the game. First party games no problems, with engineers going direct to hardware, but when using 3rd party engines going through translation layers, bloated game engines....ugh.
Switch is just a 3-5tflop system...even with an ai upscaling Rt will be too much. good sharp image of 1080p 60fps its all its need really with its small screen.
Playing on steam deck primarily I just don’t care about RT it’s just a whatever for me now. I was there day one with my 2080 but honestly idk 😅 anymore.
If your trying to do rt on a mobile soc your wasting massive graphical potential for something that's almost unnoticeable on a small screen let alone a large screen TV.
nvidia next rt is without 3d graphics - only points in space put together with dlss - should be fast and infinitely scallable. 2 minute papers has shown it. and Jensen 10000x faster AI.
Ray tracing is great, but… gameplay is more important. Backwards compatibility is more important. Region-free software is more important. Durable hardware is more important. A competitive price is more important. Third-party support is more important. Battery life is more important. If there’s ray tracing, great, but it’s a pretty low priority for Switch users.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. I'm less interested in the (very unlikely) scenario of the Switch 2 having enough horsepower for meaningful RT and more interested in Nintendo (a) allowing existing games to run at higher speeds on the new hardware (which will benefit anything with an unlocked framerate or dynamic resolution) and (b) patching some of the older games with support for the new hardware. I would very much like to see some of the older "impossible ports" get some minor upgrades - like a higher maximum resolution for Witcher 3 or a boost up to 60fps for Doom.
A game-changer? Nope. A slight enhancement to visuals with a questionable cost in terms processing budget, especially if frame rates are sacrificed? Definitely.
I would think it viable, but only if it were developed specifically for ray tracing utilization at a stable 60fps. One tough thing about creative use of ray tracing on PC is creating games where accurate lighting and reflections actually play into the atmosphere - with some people preferring the performance of rasterization, they are left out of that experience where it creates the most impact. If Nintendo uses ray tracing in any of their Switch 2 titles, it need only be if 60fps is manageable as a baseline and ray tracing is built in with no way to toggle it off. If it is handled like this, they could then actually tie it into the gameplay and everyone would experience the same dynamics. If ray tracing requires a 30fps cap, it won't be worth it on Switch 2, even if it is possible to use.
Exactly. 60 fps where ever possible. But I would want them to increase complexity with their physics engine. Start assigning “weight” to object etc. imagine being able to destroy dungeon walls and stuff if you have the necessary momentum. 2 bombs should be more powerful than 1 bomb etc. Ray tracing doesn’t seem to be all that impressive if I’m being honest.
@@juleswinnfield1246- Yep. Anyone whose machine was capable wouldn't be wondering what the point of RT was. And since the person is commenting on Digital Foundry video, they could try watching a single video to understand the point of RT rather than being ignorant. I swear all these comments must be from people who love Hardware Unboxed.
They should make a proprietary(in architecture, not connection) External GPU dock for like $200; All games required to run as hendheld, but then significant upgrade when docked.
Real talk, in my opinion, that potential more powerful GPU will be held back by the rumored Cortex A78 CPU cores and the low ram bandwidth of LPDDR5X. And if they were to use GDDR6 RAM for the GPU, that will cause two considerably different RAM pools, causing useless headaches for devs. At that point, it's frankly better to make two distinct consoles that share the same cartridges. The handheld based on the custom Tegra Orin, and the home console with a better GPU, but also a better CPU, and GDDR6 RAM. But that seem unlikely to me. Having two completely different systems is unlike what Nintendo does now. And having two completely different devices also make the work harder for devs. Either way, nothing works efficiently for everyone. Only the dockable handheld works, simple and clear for devs and users.
I don't think so, add RT may need more budget, Nintendo can compete since their most first part is not hd games or RT games, they can use less money to develop a game compared to Microsoft/Sony, they may just do 720p~1080p no RT for handheld and 1080p~2K no RT for docker mode.
That's actually what I'm waiting for, using RT in gameplay and game mechanics. Given how RT is in current consoles though and most of PCs, RT on the next Switch seems like a dream or at least, for it work well 😄
Im not expecting any RT focused gameplay from Nintendo. Simple because they've done all this before. There are dark dungeons in botw when you navigate by the torch. They've had mirrors in games before too. Even if they came up with something novel, there's nothing about current reflection tricks that would make it impossible to build a game around it now. We don't need a switch 2 to make "Mario Mirror". Heck there was light and dark gameplay on SNES Zelda with the torches. There was reflection and spotlight based gameplay with the mirror shield on Oot. Nintendo is smarter than me so who knows what they can cook up. I guess I'm just wary of a Wii U star fox zero situation where they were so hell bent on integrating the hardware with gameplay that they forgot to ask if it was a good game.
I'm just excited DLSS tech will "force" them to finally use anti-aliasing in their games, MY GOD why did they not use ANY anti-aliasing in all their titles for the entirety of the Switch's lifespan? It drives me insane, the image quality of their games is 10 years outdated.
Nintendo shouldn't be the only one trying to innovate with new tech. If they did have raytracing, it would be better for current Switch games as remastered versions and not new titles that would have poor performance.
I dont think ray tracing will be a thing on switch 2, especially considerably a ps5 struggles so much with it. Honesty, it's not a needed feature. Id much rather they fix switch online and their ui.
I don't think the Switch 2 will have enough horsepower to use RT and have decent framerates. If they would realise a powerful console that could compete with PS5/6 then sure
I just want good performance and better textures. A solid 1080p docked at a perfect 60 fps for AAA games. Maybe 120 fps for lighter games like indies, 2d marios, mario kart, give last gen games a lil boost like xbox does. The handheld can be 800p like the steam deck if that helps performance and battery life. Efficiency, portability and comfortability are whats going to sell the system on top of their graphics leap along with performance. Its nintendo, i dont need a PS5 level quality from them. Just be better than the previojs switch and improve quality of life upgrades needed on the current switch
Agree with literally everyone's replies here. RT was the most costly use of hardware that wasn't worth it at all in my experience. I'd much rather a clean clear image than blurry upscaling just to see a more "accurate" reflection or shadows that I barely notice the difference of in motion
Not worth in a home console actually for me... in an handled? Really? Do people still want 30- (minus actually) fps and more detail or light? No thanks
When I look at the abyssimal performance and many artifacts of today's RT titles on console with pumping shadows, d flickery puddles and Sub-1080p Rendering then I couldn't care less about RT.
![The LEAKER that PROVED Having a Nintendo Switch 2 [Rumor]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZVX7Tf_G8rE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The LEAKER that PROVED Having a Nintendo Switch 2 [Rumor]](/img/tr.png)
The Switch doing RT is about last on the list of important Switch 2 features. Imagine draining the battery just so you can have RT 😅
The Switch 2 would probably share the same TDP as the Switch so it wouldnt use up more battery than the Switch at peak utilization
I would be just so happy if they used RT and AI alus for sth gameplay related, like AI thinking differently in different room. Human brain maps thought processes to rooms at home.
I would assume they would save it for a docked gaming
It's the performance I would worry about... That's really the main thing people have been begging for for years now. 60fps minimum and better resolution!
@wrathpsp About resolution, I've been playing wukong pt on 650p>1080p on fsr 3.1.3. It's usable. Looks better than cyberpunk 1440p fsrp in fsr 2.2 era. Dlss should be even better.
i'd rather have no RT at all, but well done graphics, with 60fps and good resolution. RT will only stress the hardware. not only on Switch 2, but in every console of this generation. focus on level of detail, less popup, more polished graphics etc. leave RT for the next generation, it will be much better performance-wise!
Nah
Nah
Agreed
Agreed too. The other guys are idiots and don't understand the unjustifiable cost performance wise.@@Soraviel
Nintendo is too old to know about 60fps being a standard. I'd say if they manage to lock 30fps it would be great.
Jeez DF is truely obsessed with ray tracing... I'd rather have no RT at all and 1080p 60fps without upscaling, than half assed ray tracing with flickering reflections and noisy illumination.
i really want to see a luigi's mansion with RT
Luigi's mansion is likely going to be jail for at least a few years, unfortunately. Man's a damn folk hero.
Exactly what came to my mind as well, Nintendo always made games that punch above their weight on that hardware they were running on, just look at Metroid Prime 4 trailer, that was running on Switch, using midrange tablet APU from 2015
Sacrificing resolution and framerate for RT nonsense? No, please, no
What framerate, can't even watch the wife play anything on her's.
It has to happen. But I'd sacrifice rt to do tons of AI gimmicks - like set details per player.
Just like they sacrificed performance for polygons nonsense.
@@Sofian375 Funny thing is most the games i have seen remind me of 64 games, with just little more LoD distance.
It depends on that game. I dont care about fps playing Mario party. Rt would be cool in that game.
Let's be honest - the sort of things suggested there with ray tracing to change gameplay really doesn't require hardware RT. The thing with RT as a graphical technology is you have to trace like 1 ray per pixel, so like a million times every single frame for even just 720p. But checking if a switch or a creature or a character is in/out of light would require like 2 or 3 rays per frame. And a fully dark environment lit realistically just by a local light source is considerably easier if that space is constrained. You could pretty easily do a voxel-based GI solution that would look really good without resorting to RT. If we're talking about Nvidia features that would really help this console I'm more interested in DLSS and a newer version of NVENC allowing for 1080p clip recording.
I for one hope they focus on well optimised, polished 60fps engines FIRST- then worry about RT *IF* there’s any headroom left. RT is ‘nice to have’ but NOT by sacrificing performance! Especially on a handheld 😉
Nintendo always hit 60 when they think it matters for gameplay. Like in Mario. Stuff like Zelda, they just decided other things were more important. Overall though, Nintendo has mostly served up 60fps experiences. It's only the switch that's really got away from 60fps. Even then, they hit it when it's absolutely vital. Metroid, Mario, Smash, Splatoon, Mario Kart etc
It'd be great to see Zelda and Xenoblade at 60 tho. But would I take a 30fps mode with RT global illumination in Zelda... Probably
I think if they do a game with ray tracing, it's going to be a new IP with gameplay based entirely around dynamic lighting, and tightly designed around a smooth frame rate, so something minimalistic. I wouldn't expect, say, a new Mario game based around rt because of performance concerns.
Always amazing how many people you find whining about RT on a tech page that has dozens of videos showing exactly why it's useful and what it can offer that traditional hardware is just not physically capable of.
Nintendo has generally been on top of consistent performance in their first party titles, so I would imagine if they did incorporate RT, they'd be doing it in a way that worked well with the limitations of the Switch 2 hardware.
legit, not to mention its nvidia hardware which has a significant advantage in rt vs amd. Raster performance might be lower than ps5, but i could see dlss and lower res targets making up the difference, as well as rt being less taxing on the hardware.
Switch 2. 60fps perfromance mode. 30 fps quality mode. 15 fps RT mode.
I think it would be cool, to have the continued simple art styles of Nintendo, so not a high resolution necessary, but use the power available for really good environmental effects.
That's why RT so suitable for Nintendo art style games. Looks at Fortnite RT. So beautiful. Realistic art style games if use RT will impact heavy on performance, unlike colorful art style games
3:26 "It all takes up diareeah" -Richard Leadbetter
Yeah I like what John's said. I mean they don't have to like make an entire game Ray Traced, they could just do like a puzzle or room based around the technology.
I'm not particularly interested in say Ray Traced like reflection on the metal of the Karts in Mario Kart. They can use it in a way that might actually lead a new example.
I'm still surprised we've only seen RT used for lighting. Doom Eternal teased using RT like we've never seen and then delayed the feature and ultimately landed on shadows and reflections.
I hope Nintendo will add creative RT features in their published games. Maybe a ray gun that bounces off surfaces to collect their light colors
I wouldn't bet on RT being used on multiplatform games, but just like Spiderman had RT reflections while still running at 60fps on PS5, and Indiana Jones even has RT features on Series S, I imagine Nintendo could have RT on first party titles and still keep a good performance
RT has some worthwhile use if your gameplay requires mirrors and maybe even some accurate caustics. Only reason the Switch 2 will have RT and AI is because it’s a standard part of Nvidia’s architecture. No different than RDNA on AMD APUs where there isn’t enough RT performance to matter unless you keep things low res and have the bandwidth to back it up.
Zelda dungeons have already used lighting as a key gameplay point. The mirror shield has been featured like 3 or 4 times.
I hope they do have RT (even if its in a lesser state). Most of the comments complaining about performance are obnoxious.. if were talking about "holding back generational leaps in graphical fidelity" , the pissing and moaning about Ray Tracing has to come to an end.
On a side note i hope more games require RT capable GPUs, like what indiana jones did. Its time to push forward.
RT on Switch 2 to end world hunger! 😂
ps5 which is significantly more powerful than switch 2 will be can barely handle RT. Theres absolutely no point in forcing RT onto switch 2.
That's actually one of the weakest implementations of RT, on the PS5. I wouldn't equal its power in raster to be equal to RT performance for a weak RDNA1.5 implementation where AMD wasn't strong with RT at all. Switch 2 could very well be more capable than a PS5 in RT, and many times consoles go forward in tech a bit, and with Nvidia about to release Blackwell, we will see what advances they make in RT. For their 40 series they had features like shader execution reordering, among other improvements for RT, so Nvidia and a Switch 2 could really come out strong. I also don't think Nintendo style games would need as much advanced RT as the consoles that shoot for realism and need a lot of compute just for their software designs in general. Maybe even do hybrids instead of a full blown RT implementation, lower res reflections... also Switch 2 will have ray reconstruction through DLSS which PS5 has nothing close in comparison. It makes a big difference, I was just looking at ray reconstruction the other day and it really brings out RT to look vibrant with a wow factor, without a performance hit that I could tell.
@@Mcnooblet switch 2 will be close rtx 3050 which is still too weak for RT and it simply isnt worth it to turn on RT on these lower end cards even though they are better at raytracing than AMD for example. And what nvidia releases next is irrelevant because those cards wont be inside swich 2.
PS5 isn't great at RT... Nvidia's RT performance is significantly better and being that switch 2 would only have to target modest native resolutions then RT could be very usable. Given that switch 2 GPU is ~66% of the performance of an RTX 3050 it could make use of it but i think the vram amount will be the deciding factor.
The rumored hardware capabilities I've seen wouldn't lead me to believe any RT will be done on switch2 at all
Old AMD RT vs modern Nvidia RT are very different.
I feel like the whole gaming industry is focusing on the wrong thing which ray tracing. It requires too much processing power, low fps, hot device, stutter and yet it doesn’t make huge impact on the visual. You have to stand still to appreciate the live reflections otherwise you won’t notice when things are in motion.
Ray tracing really has multiple forms. Extremely watered down forms, which don't impress very many for the performance hit it cost. Then you have full blown path tracing which is transformative in person, less on RUclips. I love native resolutions and high fps too, but when I toggle path tracing off in Cyberpunk, the lighting ends up looking wierd and bland. I'm not a fan of reflections in general, or even general shadows, but global illumination and even ambient occlusion can look really nice with how light spreads out across a room rather than a linear light revealing a room looking like a box with a laser beam light shining into it. Probably best not to know the difference, just like if you are use to 30fps, best not to get use to 60fps because you'll look down on 30fps after you get use to 60fps. Of course when it comes to RT, you have other factors like someones display with shoddy HDR where none of the image will look great anyways regardless of accurate lighting with IPS gray all over the place.
Yoshi: Reflections 2025
RT when docked sounds good
As long as it's 30fps with rt and heavy motion blur df will love it
I love how happy John always looks discussing tech 😊
Metroid 5 already came out. Its alternate title is Metroid Dread. I suspect I_like_licorice may have meant Metroid Prime 5
I won't be surprised if Nintendo find a way to make RT some kind of mechanics.
1440p would be a game changer Nintendo.
I think people are too quick to discount the idea of Nintendo supporting ray tracing. For starters it's beginning to become a vital part of some games presentation which will only become more the case in the next few years so it's fundamentally not a bad idea for the switch to have some hardware RT support. And the person who asked this question is right. Even if the switch to is kind of underpowered I bet Nintendo could do some pretty great and innovative stuff with the tech. That's kind of their thing. If the next generation of Nintendo hardware doesn't support hardware RT, then the one after certainly should at the very least.
Ray tracing and all other bells and whistles only when docked.
Don’t forget about Nintendo’s MODE 7!! 😉
Really excited to see what Nintendo do with the new technology!
They should remake Rare's DKC games in pre rendered looks and ray tracing.
Why are they so obsessed with 5W for Switch 2 in portable mode? That's around the amount the Switch OLED draws when fully stressed. OG Switch is closer to 7W.
And this system is a far bigger one (8in tablet), and also probably on a node like TSCM4 due to sheer size/risk of power leaking (Samsung 8 does not scale down in power draw to 500Mhz, I'm sorry)
hx370 handhelds do 30W and probably 60W docked. It's not because they want to, it's because price/perf is much better. I cross my fingers for 30W docked mode for switch. I can see them run in 24fps to 'unlock' power of gpu otherwise.
I agree and the fact that active cooling is confirmed in the dock i would guess 10-15w handheld with a big jump when docked.
Not sure why they are so pessimistic about the Switch 2's hardware. They're also really adamant that the Switch 2 will be using on samsungs 8nm node.
If we see significant RT in switch titles, I hope it’s used to advance gameplay.
A mario game or something 2.5d with low enough performance overheads should be able to handle RT dynamic lighting in a fun way.
In Luigi's Mansion 3 they favored graphics over performance, and because the camera is fixed and moves slowly the 30fps doesn't hinder the gameplay, I can easily see the next Luigi's Mansion using RT GI and/ or RT Shadows (screen space reflections was good enough for how the camera is positioned in 3)
Also I imagine RT Shadows could be used as a dope dungeon mechanic in a Zelda game
Too early to talk about something that isn't announced yet, switch hasn't been discontinued yet and they don't need first party titles to secceed. They could address its performance once it is released , it could be a leap ahead of what we know of their past hardware being underpowered.
What Metroid 5 is already out it's Metroid Dread I had to count the main Metroid games 😅
60fps 1080p? Is this still too much to ask for?
Current Nintendo has 16 Watts aku and around 3 hours battery life. If they put at least 25 Wats aku they can afford using 7-10 Watts per hour.
25 Wats are not much, every modern smartphone has this aku size, but usually more
RT for what? Mario's mustache?
I hope they use the hardware to have perfect performance. If there's a dev that doesn't need RT, that's Nintendo.
If they give you an option to turn off ray tracing, I would do that.
Are people really expecting even wanting RT on a switch? Are they insane
RT with DLSS will bring 60FPS in many games
I have no expectations whatsoever
3 whole rays for the entire viewport
Does anyone seriously think that Nintendo, a company that prioritises selling garbage hardware at high margins, will implement ray tracing with their next console?
There won't be a Nintendo console with ray tracing for at least ten years.
Just good to see a video that isn't about the ps5 pro
On one hand, I don't want the performance hit that comes with RT and I don't care about how it looks (frankly, at lower quality levels I think it looks significantly worse than older techniques - it's a very all-or-nothing tech for me).
On the other hand... let's face it, games are being developed with RT in mind more and more frequently, and that isn't going to be slowing down. If the Switch 2 doesn't have it (or just isn't particularly good at it), ports are going to be ROUGH in very short order because games will increasingly be designed with RT as a base assumption. This CAN be worked around... but as we've seen from Switch ports over the years, plenty of devs aren't willing or able to put in that much extra work.
I'm still waiting for the xbox series x version of minecraft to have raytracing like they said it would before it released, doubt anybody is getting that on a portable system
Yeah, but then, devs will enable Unreal RT on the switch 2....which would tank the game. First party games no problems, with engineers going direct to hardware, but when using 3rd party engines going through translation layers, bloated game engines....ugh.
Switch is just a 3-5tflop system...even with an ai upscaling Rt will be too much. good sharp image of 1080p 60fps its all its need really with its small screen.
Playing on steam deck primarily I just don’t care about RT it’s just a whatever for me now. I was there day one with my 2080 but honestly idk 😅 anymore.
Nintendo 64 had path tracing though right?
If they can do something interesting great, but so far RT has not been an especially additive feature despite being so resource intensive
If your trying to do rt on a mobile soc your wasting massive graphical potential for something that's almost unnoticeable on a small screen let alone a large screen TV.
Nobody cares about ray tracing!
Ray tracing is just still too new. Let's wait until the hardware catches up before adding it to games
Has everyone forgotten that nintendo pretty much made RT sound in totk.
If anyone can work out how to utilise it, its definitely nintendo...
ray traced beam physics in metroid?
3:27 He said diareah lol
RT? how about stable 30fps first? 😅
nvidia next rt is without 3d graphics - only points in space put together with dlss - should be fast and infinitely scallable. 2 minute papers has shown it. and Jensen 10000x faster AI.
I think you misinterpreted.
Nope nintendo is too cheap for that, they'll sell you old hardware at a premium just like previous generations and the fans will praise them for it.
Ray tracing is great, but…
gameplay is more important.
Backwards compatibility is more important.
Region-free software is more important.
Durable hardware is more important.
A competitive price is more important.
Third-party support is more important.
Battery life is more important.
If there’s ray tracing, great, but it’s a pretty low priority for Switch users.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. I'm less interested in the (very unlikely) scenario of the Switch 2 having enough horsepower for meaningful RT and more interested in Nintendo (a) allowing existing games to run at higher speeds on the new hardware (which will benefit anything with an unlocked framerate or dynamic resolution) and (b) patching some of the older games with support for the new hardware. I would very much like to see some of the older "impossible ports" get some minor upgrades - like a higher maximum resolution for Witcher 3 or a boost up to 60fps for Doom.
I never thought about it, but now that i do, I cant think of a worse place for ray tracing to be. NO thank you
Can we just have 720p@60fps stable that won't drop to 544p in handheld mode for Switch 2 first before talking about RT?
i doubt ray tracing will be on Nintendos next console and if it will be it will be minimal
A game-changer? Nope. A slight enhancement to visuals with a questionable cost in terms processing budget, especially if frame rates are sacrificed? Definitely.
RtX and, Unreal Engine are ruining games.
Just give me 1080p 60fps across all titles and a modern ui with party chat, achievements etc...
Also, a storefront that doesn’t take minutes to load and scroll, my god!
who cares about Ray tracing
i do
Sometimes I think RT was invented for Digital Foundry.
@emilgustavsson7310 so buy a high end pc and don't expect consoles to do it at tge cost of performance
Literally anyone who is interested in realistic rendering in games is interested in RT.
Me. Ray tracing makes for the most and best atmosphere.
I would think it viable, but only if it were developed specifically for ray tracing utilization at a stable 60fps. One tough thing about creative use of ray tracing on PC is creating games where accurate lighting and reflections actually play into the atmosphere - with some people preferring the performance of rasterization, they are left out of that experience where it creates the most impact. If Nintendo uses ray tracing in any of their Switch 2 titles, it need only be if 60fps is manageable as a baseline and ray tracing is built in with no way to toggle it off. If it is handled like this, they could then actually tie it into the gameplay and everyone would experience the same dynamics. If ray tracing requires a 30fps cap, it won't be worth it on Switch 2, even if it is possible to use.
Perhaps in Luigi's mansion. But in an open world like TotK, I think it'll be too taxing. I'd rather it have 60 fps if that's possible.
Exactly. 60 fps where ever possible. But I would want them to increase complexity with their physics engine. Start assigning “weight” to object etc. imagine being able to destroy dungeon walls and stuff if you have the necessary momentum. 2 bombs should be more powerful than 1 bomb etc.
Ray tracing doesn’t seem to be all that impressive if I’m being honest.
Please no.
I would much rather have a higher or atleast more consistent frame rate over RT
Still trying to understand what's the point of RT. My machine is capable, but man, what a waste of resources.
lol your “machine” isn’t capable at all
@@juleswinnfield1246Ray tracing is taxing on any system if it’s a somewhat good implementation. It tanks fps even on the best systems.
@@juleswinnfield1246- Yep. Anyone whose machine was capable wouldn't be wondering what the point of RT was. And since the person is commenting on Digital Foundry video, they could try watching a single video to understand the point of RT rather than being ignorant.
I swear all these comments must be from people who love Hardware Unboxed.
They should make a proprietary(in architecture, not connection) External GPU dock for like $200; All games required to run as hendheld, but then significant upgrade when docked.
Real talk, in my opinion, that potential more powerful GPU will be held back by the rumored Cortex A78 CPU cores and the low ram bandwidth of LPDDR5X.
And if they were to use GDDR6 RAM for the GPU, that will cause two considerably different RAM pools, causing useless headaches for devs.
At that point, it's frankly better to make two distinct consoles that share the same cartridges. The handheld based on the custom Tegra Orin, and the home console with a better GPU, but also a better CPU, and GDDR6 RAM.
But that seem unlikely to me.
Having two completely different systems is unlike what Nintendo does now.
And having two completely different devices also make the work harder for devs.
Either way, nothing works efficiently for everyone.
Only the dockable handheld works, simple and clear for devs and users.
Can’t wait for new Mario with rt at 480p at 25fps
But you suck it to Asstrobot, right??
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I don't think so, add RT may need more budget, Nintendo can compete since their most first part is not hd games or RT games, they can use less money to develop a game compared to Microsoft/Sony, they may just do 720p~1080p no RT for handheld and 1080p~2K no RT for docker mode.
A lot of tendy luddites in the comments I see. Anotehr Sony win! 😎
What?
I would have thought having access to multiple games at once on the system would be more of a game changer....😅
That's actually what I'm waiting for, using RT in gameplay and game mechanics.
Given how RT is in current consoles though and most of PCs, RT on the next Switch seems like a dream or at least, for it work well 😄
Im not expecting any RT focused gameplay from Nintendo. Simple because they've done all this before. There are dark dungeons in botw when you navigate by the torch. They've had mirrors in games before too. Even if they came up with something novel, there's nothing about current reflection tricks that would make it impossible to build a game around it now. We don't need a switch 2 to make "Mario Mirror".
Heck there was light and dark gameplay on SNES Zelda with the torches. There was reflection and spotlight based gameplay with the mirror shield on Oot.
Nintendo is smarter than me so who knows what they can cook up. I guess I'm just wary of a Wii U star fox zero situation where they were so hell bent on integrating the hardware with gameplay that they forgot to ask if it was a good game.
I'm just excited DLSS tech will "force" them to finally use anti-aliasing in their games, MY GOD why did they not use ANY anti-aliasing in all their titles for the entirety of the Switch's lifespan?
It drives me insane, the image quality of their games is 10 years outdated.
Was hoping to learn more about the switch2 during the game awards
Please... Do NOT wish for features that will cause unnecessary concessions performance wise. That's the last thing we need.
Yeah, just give us 60fps! 720p is still fine handheld imo.
Nintendo shouldn't be the only one trying to innovate with new tech. If they did have raytracing, it would be better for current Switch games as remastered versions and not new titles that would have poor performance.
I dont think ray tracing will be a thing on switch 2, especially considerably a ps5 struggles so much with it. Honesty, it's not a needed feature. Id much rather they fix switch online and their ui.
I don't think the Switch 2 will have enough horsepower to use RT and have decent framerates. If they would realise a powerful console that could compete with PS5/6 then sure
I just want good performance and better textures. A solid 1080p docked at a perfect 60 fps for AAA games. Maybe 120 fps for lighter games like indies, 2d marios, mario kart, give last gen games a lil boost like xbox does. The handheld can be 800p like the steam deck if that helps performance and battery life. Efficiency, portability and comfortability are whats going to sell the system on top of their graphics leap along with performance. Its nintendo, i dont need a PS5 level quality from them. Just be better than the previojs switch and improve quality of life upgrades needed on the current switch
I can’t see the Switch 2 having RT to be honest.
We dont want or need rt. Give us 1080p 60fps portable and upscale to 4k when docked.
I absolutely loathe gay tracing
it only enables laziness of third world hires with no talent
I remember a time where games had high resolution and framerate.
And triangle heads.
@@apTimON no
It will prob tank their games even more
Can’t wait to see GameFreak try to figure RT out 😂
Please no, they can’t even put out a game that looks as good or performs as well as other switch games as it is 🤣
Agree with literally everyone's replies here. RT was the most costly use of hardware that wasn't worth it at all in my experience. I'd much rather a clean clear image than blurry upscaling just to see a more "accurate" reflection or shadows that I barely notice the difference of in motion
Not worth in a home console actually for me... in an handled? Really? Do people still want 30- (minus actually) fps and more detail or light? No thanks
When I look at the abyssimal performance and many artifacts of today's RT titles on console with pumping shadows, d
flickery puddles and Sub-1080p Rendering then I couldn't care less about RT.
Ray tracing on Switch 2 is a terrible idea.
Nintendo Switch 2 failed worse than Nintendo Wii U (great underated console) would be the day a common sense people would celebrate🥳