Probably one of the best TvZ, a nice demonstration of the power of SK Terran. By the way, for those saying TvZ matchups are imba, I think you need a bit more understanding about this game. What we've seen here is the result of a late macro game Jaedong didn't succeed to deny. A zerg player NEEDS to do some kind of harassment early game, he NEEDS to damage the terran player's economy to carry the game with an advantage. Jaedong didn't manage to do a single one of these. Nice play by Sea.
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition
If I buy over Blizzard, I will implement several changes. First, Infested Terran Splash Damage Range is increased to that of Reaver's Scarab. Second, Sunken Colonies be returned to 400 HP and 0 Armour. Third, Ultralisks gain base 3 Armour. Fourth, Goliath Ground Attack Upgrade is now +2. I have my reasons for these, if anyone wishes to know, just reply here. Infested Terrans also do full damage while under the Dark Swarm, instead of just Splash Damage, and cost less time to be built. Zealots be returned to 80 HP and 80 Shields. In exchange the base Movement Speed of the Zealot is slightly increased. And the Scourge should be slightly faster in speed, while the Sunken Colony's attack should be unaffected by Dark Swarm. Perhaps have the Attack Upgrade of the Ultralisks be +4? Also, when a Scourge hits, the Unit automatically dies, instead of having a delay in the death animation. The Devourers have an Attack Range of 7. The Scout has a Ground Attack value of 10 and Air Attack of 30, reduced Warping in time to 60 seconds, while gaining Detector for a Range of 6, after Researching Apial Sensors, at a cost of 200 Minerals and 200 Vespene Gas. The Scout's Sight Range is increased from 10 to 12 too with this Upgrade. The Scout's Grav Thruster's Speed Upgrade makes the Scout move slightly faster than it does now, at the same speed as the Scourge. The Overlord's Evolution, Antennae, costs 100 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas. How about Spawn Broodlings costing 125 Energy? And of course lifting the object limiter for the Valkyrie. Finally, the Science Vessel's EMP Shockwave's Area of Effect Range be increased, and the Medic's Heal rate decreased. Now, the one implementation I am least certain with: having the Ghost's Attack improved to 20, with an Attack Upgrade of +2. The Ghost should be slightly faster too. Essentially, the Ghost, Siege Tank, Hydralisk, and Zealot should have a slightly increased base Movement Speed, compared to Infantry Units like Marines and Firebats.
lol what "he wasn't really mobile" how many times did he kill 3:00? how many fights were in sea's bases vs jaedong's expoes or mid? vessels didn't help? they irrad. all ultra and defiler. if you think the sci vessels didn't do anything you need to rewatch the VOD. at the end 2000+ mineral and 2000+ gas. he had the advantage so he could be aggressive with the sci vess b/c had enough to make many more. you ignore the point of crazy zerg build which is to turbohive, get a 4th gas, fast upgrades.
Damn youtube post limit lol... Vessels didn't help in the sense that having extra of them all the time did not gain Sea anything... sure it did irradiates, but he could've irradiated just as much with half the amount of vessels had he not just thrown them into scourge all the time. Tanks would've helped tons, especially against those ultras. And trying to ultra/ling M&M, when you have JD's level of micro... come on, had he made any lurkers -> lurker + swarm = more rape than any amount of ultra
re AqoTrooper: You're wrong. 1) Tanks don't do well against ultra/ling/swarm (they are immobile unlike MnM, so they die, and they don't do very much dmg to swarm). Irradiate is almost the only thing effective against ultra/swarm. 2) Ultra is better than lurk/defiler vs. MnM because Ultras take like no dmg against MnM, plus are more mobile. Against lurk/defiler, a few swarms on defilers compromises your entire attack group (you can lose 24 lurks in 10 seconds to fully upped MnM).
wow amazing TvZ game JD's play was somewhat lackluster in the first 15 minutes and man...Sea's macro didnt miss a single beat, he had blobs of doom all over the map all the time and replenished his forces instantly i find JD had a slight advantage at the 30 minute mark with those nice plagues and him being able to defend most of gas and sniping so many vessels the game was over when Sea finally secured the triple top left expos...JD should've tried to deal with those expos earlier imo
it is obvious he skips lurkers to get a super fast hive and melee attack and carapace upgrades for as many ultras as possible. every 2 lurkers he makes is one less ultralisk, which is what the crazy zerg build is all about. and the point of SK terran isn't to be stupid and attack into a group of 10 sunkens. you run around the map with greater mobility since you aren't hampered by your slow siege tanks. less gas spent on siege tanks means more sci vessels.
Yeah i see where you are coming from AqoTrooper, but in the end, as we all know these guys play up too 14 hours a day, every day. So i'm sure everything they do is done for a precise reason.
Crazy Zerg build...? That's the standard tech for ZvT on Andromeda, even D+ Zergs can do it near perfect... ~_~ I wouldn't argue with Sea's and JD's decisions because I'm a JD fan and I know how good both of those players are, but I know for certain that both players could play better had they been a lot more flexible. I bet neither of them expected the game to get so long and they didn't practice for endgame situations like that with their teams.
back when Sea was good :') Ps Despite TvZ imbalance, SK Terran is actually REALLY HARD and z have tons of hard counters to it, so this was infact a fair match (prolly harder for terran) SICK DROPS SEA
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition sea is good now :P
An other thing, did someone ever tried to "5 barrack" a zerg player? Probably, but he probably died like a cow though. The zerg players have many rush techniques, many tactics to end the games early. It's kinda harder to do so with terrans since the bunker rush is so easy to counter nowadays. This game has over ten years of professional gaming behind him. Blizzard made ALOT of fixes to balance things up. (Just remember the time when Protoss Scouts cost was ridiculously low :P)
normally tanks r added after bio, but this guy chose to use science vessles instead of tanks's firepower and irradiate and move back to drop the ultra's and defiler's hp it's epic tactic but i don't think it's sth that every people can do
As a zerg player, I have to disagree with kreternal and agree with needsmorsleep. I'm a D player on ICCUP because countering Terran is just so impossible. Once Terran starts its M&M, Zerg has to be in at least Muta or Lurker tech. After Terran has enough turrets in base, Muta tech is completely useless and Zerg has to default onto Lurker+ling+defiler tech. The micro required for Lurker+defiler is ridiculous compared to the micro to just do scan+siege tank.
You don't need to explain to me how Starcraft works, I don't just watch VODs I play too ;p All those science vessels weren't doing Sea any good really, just constantly dying to scourge. He wasn't really mobile either because JD forced him to play defensive. Having tanks would solve a lot of problems for him. As for every two lurkers being one ultra... hellooo? When you fight a group of 30 marines and you have dark swarm, 2ultra4lurk is waaay better than 4 ultra, not to mention the lings..
ps ran out of room. You dont take into account scourge friggin BLOW up. vessels can be reused. And most T who know how to play always keep vessels secured with rines. So next time think before you write.
nope just zvt, and that was crap, you shouldn't be able to get 3 bases up on your opponent and lose without some serious mistakes. All things considered, its mainly thats it frustrating, both watching and playing, when you can't finese the terran like in every other match-up, you have to be crafty, stall and micro perfectly while the terran can sit back and mass a super cheap(cost) ball-o-rape. It's not a huge imbalance but it's there. And why would I say the losing race is imba?
I've been following Progaming for 3 years and I am a C Zerg on Iccup...and even I think that ZvT is imba, favoring Terrans heavily Terrans rape Zerg expos like nothing in few seconds while Zerg cannot touch the lifted CC Why does SCV has 20 more life than Drone? Thats just not equal The gay thing about Terran is that they're so cost effective and can run on 2 bases alone Zergs are extremely vulnerable until hive tech kicks in (defilers/ultras) and even with the hive tech, it just equals out
Why didn't Jaedong make any lurkers against that mass of marines? Why didn't Sea make any Siege Tanks against those Sunkens? This game honestly made me facepalm, it's like every time JD loses it's because he got lazy, like in his loss against Free (Pretty?) where he just let the game get dragged until Free had an invincible reaver/archon force. JD has great lurker control, stuff like the one-base lurkers he did really show that; had he made any here he could've won this so easily ;/
.....ugh wow. try playing zvt lategame with mass vessels against you. Zerg is so gas heavy, ie scourge, and its so much more effort to take down a vessel than it is for a vessel to take down a defiler. So stop crying. ps vessels are broken. they should cost more, build slower, or do less irrad dmg. building scourge is so expensive and they are taken down so easily by rines. Its ridiculous.
Statiscally, the lifetime pro ZvT record is 47%-53%, small but after 5k games, signifigant. And my comment was an exaggeration of a small fact. But your counter argument was awesome, pretty much the equivalent of "yur dum nub". And your second doesn't make any sense, it sounds like you fucked up the typing and are covering your ass. "I wasn't being literal"? What were you being? I've got assume point 2 is missing a word or something because its completely ridiculous.
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition
![SPL [2.15] mini (STX) vs Jaedong (8th) 2set / Neo ChainReraction](/img/1.gif)
12 years later... Still looks insane !
ппц игра потная) 5 лет прошло, никто не комментит, а смотреть приятно будет всегда
посмотрел в 20-м году, прослезился. Удивило кстати, что З нестроил люру, а Т не строил танки
Epic Game !
Maneater!! vs Zergslayer!!
Thumbs up for both players amazing game!!
Only one question remaining --> casualties??
Probably one of the best TvZ, a nice demonstration of the power of SK Terran.
By the way, for those saying TvZ matchups are imba, I think you need a bit more understanding about this game. What we've seen here is the result of a late macro game Jaedong didn't succeed to deny. A zerg player NEEDS to do some kind of harassment early game, he NEEDS to damage the terran player's economy to carry the game with an advantage. Jaedong didn't manage to do a single one of these. Nice play by Sea.
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition
Sk terren is broken you can irridate everyunit
That's one of those matches full of action! Even Battlecruiser makes an appearance.
instablaster...
I really do hope so
this strategy is called "Michin Zerg"
which means crazy zerg
where he dosent go lurker stage,
but straight to hive and ultras...
Candidate for greatest BW TvZ ever
If I buy over Blizzard, I will implement several changes. First, Infested Terran Splash Damage Range is increased to that of Reaver's Scarab. Second, Sunken Colonies be returned to 400 HP and 0 Armour. Third, Ultralisks gain base 3 Armour. Fourth, Goliath Ground Attack Upgrade is now +2. I have my reasons for these, if anyone wishes to know, just reply here.
Infested Terrans also do full damage while under the Dark Swarm, instead of just Splash Damage, and cost less time to be built.
Zealots be returned to 80 HP and 80 Shields. In exchange the base Movement Speed of the Zealot is slightly increased. And the Scourge should be slightly faster in speed, while the Sunken Colony's attack should be unaffected by Dark Swarm.
Perhaps have the Attack Upgrade of the Ultralisks be +4? Also, when a Scourge hits, the Unit automatically dies, instead of having a delay in the death animation. The Devourers have an Attack Range of 7.
The Scout has a Ground Attack value of 10 and Air Attack of 30, reduced Warping in time to 60 seconds, while gaining Detector for a Range of 6, after Researching Apial Sensors, at a cost of 200 Minerals and 200 Vespene Gas. The Scout's Sight Range is increased from 10 to 12 too with this Upgrade. The Scout's Grav Thruster's Speed Upgrade makes the Scout move slightly faster than it does now, at the same speed as the Scourge.
The Overlord's Evolution, Antennae, costs 100 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas.
How about Spawn Broodlings costing 125 Energy? And of course lifting the object limiter for the Valkyrie. Finally, the Science Vessel's EMP Shockwave's Area of Effect Range be increased, and the Medic's Heal rate decreased.
Now, the one implementation I am least certain with: having the Ghost's Attack improved to 20, with an Attack Upgrade of +2. The Ghost should be slightly faster too. Essentially, the Ghost, Siege Tank, Hydralisk, and Zealot should have a slightly increased base Movement Speed, compared to Infantry Units like Marines and Firebats.
lol what
"he wasn't really mobile" how many times did he kill 3:00? how many fights were in sea's bases vs jaedong's expoes or mid?
vessels didn't help? they irrad. all ultra and defiler. if you think the sci vessels didn't do anything you need to rewatch the VOD. at the end 2000+ mineral and 2000+ gas. he had the advantage so he could be aggressive with the sci vess b/c had enough to make many more.
you ignore the point of crazy zerg build which is to turbohive, get a 4th gas, fast upgrades.
great game !
Missed some guardians in mid game
평화로운자장가
Damn youtube post limit lol...
Vessels didn't help in the sense that having extra of them all the time did not gain Sea anything... sure it did irradiates, but he could've irradiated just as much with half the amount of vessels had he not just thrown them into scourge all the time. Tanks would've helped tons, especially against those ultras.
And trying to ultra/ling M&M, when you have JD's level of micro... come on, had he made any lurkers -> lurker + swarm = more rape than any amount of ultra
re AqoTrooper:
You're wrong. 1) Tanks don't do well against ultra/ling/swarm (they are immobile unlike MnM, so they die, and they don't do very much dmg to swarm). Irradiate is almost the only thing effective against ultra/swarm. 2) Ultra is better than lurk/defiler vs. MnM because Ultras take like no dmg against MnM, plus are more mobile. Against lurk/defiler, a few swarms on defilers compromises your entire attack group (you can lose 24 lurks in 10 seconds to fully upped MnM).
wow amazing TvZ game
JD's play was somewhat lackluster in the first 15 minutes
and man...Sea's macro didnt miss a single beat, he had blobs of doom all over the map all the time and replenished his forces instantly
i find JD had a slight advantage at the 30 minute mark with those nice plagues and him being able to defend most of gas and sniping so many vessels
the game was over when Sea finally secured the triple top left expos...JD should've tried to deal with those expos earlier imo
Without those Science Vessels Sea would've lost. 100% sure.
Sk 테란의 끝을 보여준다 ㄷㄷ
배틀크루저까지 뜨게되면 저그한테는 희망이 없죠.
it is obvious he skips lurkers to get a super fast hive and melee attack and carapace upgrades for as many ultras as possible. every 2 lurkers he makes is one less ultralisk, which is what the crazy zerg build is all about.
and the point of SK terran isn't to be stupid and attack into a group of 10 sunkens. you run around the map with greater mobility since you aren't hampered by your slow siege tanks. less gas spent on siege tanks means more sci vessels.
Jaedong should use Luker: in first attack to second base and in dropping.
Yeah i see where you are coming from AqoTrooper, but in the end, as we all know these guys play up too 14 hours a day, every day. So i'm sure everything they do is done for a precise reason.
Crazy Zerg build...? That's the standard tech for ZvT on Andromeda, even D+ Zergs can do it near perfect... ~_~
I wouldn't argue with Sea's and JD's decisions because I'm a JD fan and I know how good both of those players are, but I know for certain that both players could play better had they been a lot more flexible. I bet neither of them expected the game to get so long and they didn't practice for endgame situations like that with their teams.
back when Sea was good :')
Ps Despite TvZ imbalance, SK Terran is actually REALLY HARD and z have tons of hard counters to it, so this was infact a fair match (prolly harder for terran)
SICK DROPS SEA
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition
sea is good now :P
why didnt sea high-five his teammates on the top row?
OMG Sea WTF...
You didn't high five the top row of your team's bench!
An other thing, did someone ever tried to "5 barrack" a zerg player? Probably, but he probably died like a cow though. The zerg players have many rush techniques, many tactics to end the games early. It's kinda harder to do so with terrans since the bunker rush is so easy to counter nowadays.
This game has over ten years of professional gaming behind him. Blizzard made ALOT of fixes to balance things up. (Just remember the time when Protoss Scouts cost was ridiculously low :P)
normally tanks r added after bio, but this guy chose to use science vessles instead of tanks's firepower and irradiate and move back to drop the ultra's and defiler's hp
it's epic tactic
but i don't think it's sth that every people can do
As a zerg player, I have to disagree with kreternal and agree with needsmorsleep.
I'm a D player on ICCUP because countering Terran is just so impossible. Once Terran starts its M&M, Zerg has to be in at least Muta or Lurker tech. After Terran has enough turrets in base, Muta tech is completely useless and Zerg has to default onto Lurker+ling+defiler tech. The micro required for Lurker+defiler is ridiculous compared to the micro to just do scan+siege tank.
You don't need to explain to me how Starcraft works, I don't just watch VODs I play too ;p
All those science vessels weren't doing Sea any good really, just constantly dying to scourge.
He wasn't really mobile either because JD forced him to play defensive. Having tanks would solve a lot of problems for him.
As for every two lurkers being one ultra... hellooo? When you fight a group of 30 marines and you have dark swarm, 2ultra4lurk is waaay better than 4 ultra, not to mention the lings..
와 염보성 m을 몇번이나 눌럿을까 ㅋㅋ
Go Sea!!!!
Siege tank?
염보가 jd 이기는거 첨보네
ps ran out of room. You dont take into account scourge friggin BLOW up. vessels can be reused. And most T who know how to play always keep vessels secured with rines. So next time think before you write.
nope just zvt, and that was crap, you shouldn't be able to get 3 bases up on your opponent and lose without some serious mistakes. All things considered, its mainly thats it frustrating, both watching and playing, when you can't finese the terran like in every other match-up, you have to be crafty, stall and micro perfectly while the terran can sit back and mass a super cheap(cost) ball-o-rape. It's not a huge imbalance but it's there. And why would I say the losing race is imba?
24:35
T counters Z so easy maybe jaedong should try a different unit combination
췌이뤼 아쉽다 나의 우상!!
I've been following Progaming for 3 years and I am a C Zerg on Iccup...and even I think that ZvT is imba, favoring Terrans heavily
Terrans rape Zerg expos like nothing in few seconds while Zerg cannot touch the lifted CC
Why does SCV has 20 more life than Drone? Thats just not equal
The gay thing about Terran is that they're so cost effective and can run on 2 bases alone
Zergs are extremely vulnerable until hive tech kicks in (defilers/ultras) and even with the hive tech, it just equals out
Moreso like 250,000+ a year in endorsements...
저그 입장에서 욕밖에 안나오겠네
ㄹㅇ 테란 탱 마인 너프안할거면 벙커라도 없애지
That Nudis in The 11 : 00 took forever to build .....
Why didn't Jaedong make any lurkers against that mass of marines? Why didn't Sea make any Siege Tanks against those Sunkens?
This game honestly made me facepalm, it's like every time JD loses it's because he got lazy, like in his loss against Free (Pretty?) where he just let the game get dragged until Free had an invincible reaver/archon force.
JD has great lurker control, stuff like the one-base lurkers he did really show that; had he made any here he could've won this so easily ;/
Defilers, science vessels and arbiters...may the devil come and choose...
wow jaedong definitely in the slump right now ever since he lost to FBH.. FBH= slump giver lol
잘생겼다 꽃보성
.....ugh wow.
try playing zvt lategame with mass vessels against you. Zerg is so gas heavy, ie scourge, and its so much more effort to take down a vessel than it is for a vessel to take down a defiler. So stop crying.
ps vessels are broken. they should cost more, build slower, or do less irrad dmg. building scourge is so expensive and they are taken down so easily by rines. Its ridiculous.
I bet Jaedong hates BCs now.
stopping muta harass is easy, even if they're korean A-...you probs dont know how to do it.
im c- on ICCup player and i suck so hard ;)
nowadays i have a lot of loses against any race specially terrans they always kill me so hardly niggah!
iccup gold old days
想不到sea打贏jaedong過...
Statiscally, the lifetime pro ZvT record is 47%-53%, small but after 5k games, signifigant. And my comment was an exaggeration of a small fact. But your counter argument was awesome, pretty much the equivalent of "yur dum nub". And your second doesn't make any sense, it sounds like you fucked up the typing and are covering your ass. "I wasn't being literal"? What were you being? I've got assume point 2 is missing a word or something because its completely ridiculous.
테란이 좀 더 적극적인 공격을 중반에 했으면
게임 일찍 끝나는건데
와 ㅌ란은 사기 종족이다
메딕이라도 없애라
damn cheap terran imba-ness
losing makes u happy?
pathetic much? D;
When i see a terran with enough balls to go SK terran, I root for the terran. But i always normally root for Z lol.
i think i havent seen such an amazing skterran control in all my life....so much apmintensive...sea was amazing......u dont see this nowadays with late game mech transition