I was genuinely shocked to see that this was his next guest because having never followed her story at all, all I knew was her name, her face, and that she was in the news for murder years ago. The fact that she was innocent and exonerated is something I just learned today. Crazy.
That increasing state of suggestability is so understandable from how the interrogation unfolded, I really admire how well Amanda recounts it too... What a nightmare to realize way too late what was actually going on.
@@user-ee6dz3rd9g What an ignorant, if not completely baseless claim to make. Casey Anthony was responsible for a small child. While in her care, Caylee died. Casey Anthony could never explain how or why that happened. Her lies were so blatant, so easily proven false, and they were designed to throw people off her track. The job she didn't have, the nanny that wasn't, etc., etc. How you think this woman is anything like Amanda is beyond me. I think it actually says a lot more about you than anyone else.
@@TheTruthCalls It goes to show you a certain percentage of the population will cling to a lie all the way to their graves. There are those who wonder how witch hunts happen. The above commenter is the perfect example.
I've watched several RUclips videos of lawyers explaining what can go wrong when you talk to the police, and why you should never do it without counsel. Her story validates everything they say.
Yeah, there really should be more education about this, and I mean just in your own country in your own language. I was somewhat lucky in that I was tangentially linked to a bad murder case in the US, where I'm from (like never even remotely a suspect, but they wanted to use me to establish something about the suspect's character). I was flat-out lied to by the police, and I was 16 and couldn't believe it (luckily didn't bend and they just dropped that line of inquiry). That peeled the wool from my eyes at a young age. As for foreign language, although I later came to speak French quite well (and still do), I mean, when I first got there, I mean, yeah, there's no way I would have been capable of dealing with any of that. I was a great French student, lol, but when I first got there, I was awkward just with basic stuff, like small talk during a meal, what have you, let alone anything legal or just anything complex! What a nightmare.
@@patrickdoyle9304 Did you listen to the whole podcast? SHe explains it pretty well, but basically, she didn't think she was a suspect, and she was told they needed her help as a witness (in short). But I've had people, Americans to boot, say to my face, "Yeah, I'd talk to the police. I have nothing to hide." It's an incorrect approach, but it's not uncommon.
@@brek5 It's an unfortunate situation, and one of the things police should be held deeply accountable for. Police can make mistakes, of course. It's a tough job. But they've created a situation where innocent people who have useful information, are better off not talking (or at least, waiting until they've checked everything with legal council), delaying the investigation while trails are still hot. In turn, police get more zealous to get that information and use more bad tactics, which escalates the cycle. Fortunately it should be mostly solvable with proper checks and standards. Until then, perhaps best to be clear about it.
I didn't even realize Amanda was innocent until I heard this! Sorry for my ignorance, Amanda, and thank you for setting the record straight. In a much broader sense, for global society, Amanda's description of what it's like to have strangers make assumptions about you based off of wildly inaccurate projections and warped social constructs is an extremely common experience in the life of a persecuted minority in 2023. I think Amanda's resilience is a powerful example for many in that specific situation, and I thank her for sharing.
@@Mac-ku3xu Her and anyone with the tiniest shred of common sense and the ability to read words knows she is innocent. Its really hard tonimagine how stupid someone has to be to think she did it, the whole crazy case against her was because of one insane Italian investigator who was obsessed with his fantasy that the murder was part of some sex ritual that got out of hand, because that's obviously a thing lol
Are you sure she was found innocent? As in OJ was found to be innocent also? Yeah, her conviction was overturned. We don't know if she participated in the murder do we? OJ Simpson was complaining about the police also. Is he innocent also? @@heavylifts2221
That same prosecutor once accused a reporter covering a crime story of being the serial killer behind it all. Fortunately, the reporter knew when to get out of Dodge, and did. Hopefully if there's a Hell, that prosecutor will end up in the same cage as Rudy The Murdering Rapist!
It just kills me that after all this time, and after they caught the guy who actually did it, who left fluids inside meredith and poo in the toilet and bloody handprints on the wall, people STILL think Amanda had something to do with it. Edit: just finished the interview, and thank you Sam and Amanda so much for this. It seems like I'm angrier about Amanda's enemies than she is. And I can't recommend staying off social media highly enough. I think it's a big part of my sanity. RUclips is about the only network I use.
Right?!?! I was feeling the same way. I want JUSTICE for the evil prosecutor, corrupt police and lazy, unethical people at every level who perpetrated this crime against her. SO much wrong with what happened for years! That said, it is interesting that her submissive and passive attitude is what caused her to become a victim, AND is why she is so smoothly able to deal with it all now. Quite a different mindset to what I would have been like.
@@jraelien5798you tube has much more educational content. Including how-to’s for any skill. Definitely more real life rewards to this social media. But as always: use this tool well!
This podcast wasn't about her. You're literally doing the exact thing she talks about towards the end. People get mad at her for talking about HER experience because they think it somehow is disrespectful to Meredith. Amanda spent years in prison for absolutely 0 reason, being totally innocent. She's telling her story. It doesn't and shouldn't be focused entirely on Meredith. What happened to Meredith was tragic but so was what happened to Amanda. Let her tell her story. @@jeffersonianideal
The "body language" experts that are all over RUclips talking about her with millions of views are some of the most pseudoscientific cancerous shit on this site. It's really maddening/depressing. It's great to hear that Amanda seems to be doing better, hopefully she knows that she's got a huge amount of supporters that root for her. This was an impressive interview where she really showed her intelligence and ability to convey her thoughts/feelings.
I respect the 4 men who are experts in body language. The Behavior Panel. I rewatched their videos about Amanda Knox for a second time after listening to this Making Sense episode. Their second video is very different from the first. It is true that the interview that they watched shows AK choosing words that don’t make sense for the crime that was committed. It was an unfortunate interview for Amanda Knox.
The thing I always think about with this case is that it may be over for Amanda Knox, but this is apparently how the Italian justice system works. We only know about all this because she's an American and she got a lot of media attention. Just think of all the crazy going down over there that we'll never know about. It's pretty horrific.
I know Joe Rogan isn't everyones favourite person in this podcast hemisphere but he had a bunch of great talks with Josh Dublin which is an "Ambassador" for the Innocence Project. A project dedicated to those kind of cases. Basically the same thing happens in the US all the time.
Let me tell you about the "great" American justice. Several months ago I got hit by a truck driver as I was going on the green light. He did not stop at his red light and struck me at full force. A pedestrian ( mentally challenged) was walking on the side walk as the truck driver hit me. As I was being taken to the hospital, the truck driver lied and blamed me for accident and had manipulated the pedestrian to say it was my fault. The police man WITHOUT DOING ANY INVESTIGATIONS believed him. I got accused, given a citation while in the hospital injured in agonizing pain. I was screaming in agony I was being unjustly accused and screaming told the police to get video footage from street light that would prove I was wrongly accusedTHEY DID NOTHING. Weeks later a person with dash camera appeared out of nowhere. She had recorded video of accident that proved I was wrongly accused. I want to sue the police for their utter incompetence and negligence but they told me in the Usa the police has immunity, something called qualified immunity and they will not be held responsible for their negligence. I was in absolute agony and all because of the UTTER INCOMPETENCE of police. The American justice system is even worse.
As an Italian, let me assure you that the main issue with our justice system is that obviously guilty individuals end up free or with laughably short sentences, not the other way round (which, if I may, is more of a US thing). The Italian system is an excessively guarantist one, if anything. Amanda's case was down to an astonishingly coincidental collection of incompetent figures, rather than a systemic bloodlust
@@tutstut6909, wow you're right! I'm only returning to the rest of the podcast now, and sure enough he called it a Kafkaesque experience. Not a huge coincidence, really, because it's such a fitting description.
Brilliant interview. When I watched the Netflix documentary I definitely went from the "there's no smoke without fire" view to "holy smokes!" But this conversation brought out so much more insight. It just shows what trust and rapport can bring out of someone and I'm thankful just to be able to listen; a lot of the time in complete disbelief that such a tragedy of events could happen to someone so absurdly.
And something just as absurd happened to Patrick Lumumba who had his life ruined by Miss Cox's false accusation. Mr. Harris left it unaddressed so as not to sully the mutual admiration orgy this podcast culminated in.
@@twntwrs It's KNOX, not "Cox". It wasn't KNOX, but the police who coerced her into making those statements, which, by the way, she recanted within hours in writing TWICE and gave to the police. She also told her lawyers, in writing, with 3 days. Patrick Lumumba has lied repeatedly about Knox. I suggest you look at his public statements to the media and compare them to his sworn testimony in court. He contradicts himself regarding her being jealous of Kercher, firing her, and not being abused by the police.
Lumumba had every reason to be angry. Unfortunately, he directed his anger at the wrong person. He should have focused on the Italian police, and sued them for as much as he could get out of them. Of course... Mr. Lumumba is probably terrified of the police. Not so much so concerning Knox.
I almost fell for it. I'm so glad I heard this discussion. It was revealing, lucid, gripping. Having lived in several other countries, we all have the underlying worry that Amanda lived through - that should something go wrong, we do not have the benefit of citizenry, culture, language, or mindstate of our host countries. I commend her so damn much for coming through this and not allowing it to break her. For someone with her perceived image, she is remarkably introspective while remaining forward thinking. I think that's courage. Thanks for this, Sam, and especially Amanda.
Amanda's courage through all of this is an inspiration for any person who has been wrongly accused. Police ineptitude inflicts so much psychological damage on victims such as Amanda. This situation shatters trust in institutions.
Guede opted for a fast track trial (in front of a judge, no jury trial, etc.) that automatically reduces a sentence by 1/3. Original sentence of 30 years was reduced on appeal to 24. One third reduction (8 years) of 24 years is 16 years.
A disgraceful sentence for such a crime, in some countries he would be put to death for that, even in Britain where some ridiculously light sentences are handed out, for this type of crime he would be doing 25 years minimum and might even get a whole life tariff. 16 years is an insult to the victim and her family. And he was actually released after 13 years, wtf?
That's why it's so important to tell everyone to not talk to the police without a lawyer. That doesn't sound like a misunderstanding, more like gaslighting and police worse criminals than most they put into prison. I never heard that anyone had to face consequences for that.
It's terrifying to an agreeable person like myself how easy it is for incompetent narcissists to ruin your life, your wellbeing, without reason. Make me want to stay inside.
When Knox asked how Sam Harris was addressing his Doppelgänger-version which is out there I thought for a second that Sam Harris would be addressing Ben Stiller
She seems like a very wise and smart woman. To go through such an horrific ordeal and to talk about it with no bitterness and finger pointing is something beyond exemplary.
I hate to say this but I think she was unfairly judged based largely on her looks. Even privileged white folks can be judged based on their looks believe it or not. I’ve seen it and experienced it myself. I’m actually half Mexican but took after my mom’s Irish side and have always been perceived as fully white. I have trippy eyes and have been falsely accused of being high on everything from LSD to Ecstacy to Speed. Not only that, but I’ve had asthma and acute allergies my whole life which gives me glassy eyes to boot. I heard so many people judge Amanda Knox at the time based on her looks and her eyes. I heard numerous comparisons to the young female Manson followers. People always say, “you can tell from the eyes.” By all accounts she seems like a good & likable person, I also saw her on Theo Von’s podcast. Glad she’s getting her story out.
I can't get over how many people here imagine she is guilty. Who imagines that a 20 year old girl studying abroad decides a month after she arrives to butcher her 20 year old female roommate then calls the police on herself and cooperates during dozens of hours of interrogations. Oh and manages to leave semen and male African DNA inside her victim. Obviously she did it lol. Its crazy how eagerly people believe the most idiotic absurd nonsense just because they read it online
The Knox case was indeed a stark reminder of how easily we are willing to condemn individuals on flimsy evidence. That part of the human heart never goes away.
Well, I wouldn't say "we". Sure it's a lot of people but the types who tend to think more critically and scientifically about things are much less likely to. Honestly I think I'm immune to it.
Ironically Ms. Cox did precisely the same thing implicating Patrick Lumumba which ruined his life in Italy and neither she nor Mr. Harris had the intellectual or ethical honesty to even be bothered to bring that up.
@@twntwrs How many times are you going to be told it is "Knox" and not "Cox"? One more time. Amanda was coerced into implication Lumumba. She recanted this by way of two letters she wrote immediately after being arrested. It was the police who thought he was involved. It was the police who coerced her into implicating him. It was the police who held him for two weeks when they had nothing on him, and during which time several people who had been at the bar came forward providing him an alibi, something the police chose to ignore. And BTW, it was the police who kept his bar closed for two months, or more than six weeks after he was released and declared not involved. Yet you continue to put this on Amanda. I'm guessing critical thought isn't one of your specialties.
In fairness, some of the media articles on this case were disgustingly biased, and any neutral person would have been convinced of her guilt if they trusted these sources. I remember seeing photos in the British press of the bathroom Amanda used after the murder had taken place, and the pictures showed that the shower was stained from top to bottom in Meredith's blood. ... What they failed to mention is that these images were taken AFTER luminol had been sprayed all over the scene to highlight the blood that had been scrubbed away and was invisble. So the shower would have actually appeared pristine and spotless at the time Amanda saw it. I could give a long list of all the other things I saw/read about the case that turned out to be gross media spin.
Here's a frustratingly obvious question: Where the hell was the U.S. embassy while this 20-year-old U.S. citizen was being interrogated by the Italian police? Seems to me the embassy could at least have provided a competent legal interpreter for her. When American Toyota executive Julie Hamp was arrested by the Japanese police in 2015 for actually committing a crime -- i.e., trying to smuggle oxycontin into Japan for her own use -- then-Ambassador Caroline Kennedy intervened and sprang Hamp from jail within days.
"Where the hell was the U.S. embassy while this 20-year-old U.S. citizen was being interrogated by the Italian police?" The US embassy in Rome was only notified by Italy AFTER Knox was interrogated and arrested. They did not know that Knox was a suspect or being interrogated. Once notified, they kept tabs on what was going on and visited Knox regularly. The pro-guilt often claim Knox was only acquitted due to US government interference which is not true at all. The US let the Italian judicial process play out as was correct.
@@mytrip6991 "The US embassy in Rome was only notified by Italy AFTER Knox was interrogated and arrested." Well that's interesting. So apparently the Italians didn't allow Amanda to contact her family or anyone else she knew while she was being interrogated. Otherwise, notifying the embassy is the first thing they would have done, it seems to me. "The US let the Italian judicial process play out as was correct." Which begs the question: If that's the correct approach, why didn't the U.S. let the Japanese judicial process play out in the case of the Toyota executive, rather than having the ambassador intervene?
@@randyevermore9323 Correct. The police did not allow Knox to contact anyone during the interrogation, even a lawyer. The police were also not required to contact the US embassy until she was officially detained. As for Hamp, you'd have to ask the Japanese prosecutors why they decided not to press charges. I suspect it was mutually beneficial for both the US and Japan to let the case drop. AIUI, the CEO of Toyota supported Hamp and Toyota is very powerful in Japan. Regarding Knox, unless it's felt than an arrest is unjustified, interfering in an ally's judicial process is not wise. We would not welcome interference in our own judicial process so why should we expect another country to? Especially in a high profile murder case.
Great conversation. Echos of early, actual, religious witch-hunts and crimes against women. It feels as though we have not learned from the past. This airing of the experience was needed. Thank you.
@@TheTruthCalls There is loads against her, that strangely (not strangely) she doesn't mention. But here is a fun fact. In the opening minutes she describes going home, finding a break in and returning Rafs because she didn't know 112, coming back, calling the police and the police arriving. What actually happened by her own statements is that she didn't find the break in that first visit that morning, she went to Rafs, had a leisurely hour long breakfast, went back to the cottage, spotted the break in, then waited a further 30 mins called the police and then a completely different police force arrived by chance. Guess who rewrites reality to make their story look better
@@bigleady Well now, if there's "loads against her" then I assume it shouldn't be too difficult for you to cite some of it? As for your fun fact, she is giving an account of something that happened 17 years ago. As it turned out, what she discovered when she went home was in fact a burglary, even if she didn't know that at the time. So 17 years later she now correctly states she went home and discovers a break-in. Exactly how is she rewriting history? It seems both accounts have her going to the cottage, finding something wrong, returning to Raffaele's, explaining what she found, going back to the cottage, then calling the police. You claim "What actually happened by her own statements is.." but then you make up your own details. She never claimed to have a "leisurely hour long breakfast" nor did she ever claim to "waited a further 30 mins" before calling the police. Those are your details as you try to turn this into something it isn't. The only real difference is that at the time she did not know the cottage had been broken into, but as she tells the story now, she does. I await the loads of evidence... Oh, and BTW, my question to mikegoldstein7112 was what evidence contradicts many of her claims. Are you prepared to cite what claims and what evidence contradicts them?
@@TheTruthCalls There is no point (if you cared you'd find it) so just focus on the immediate question. Its literally the defining morning of her life and yet when its told now (after constant repeating it over time so the idea that 15 years matters is crap) it bears at best a passing resemblance to her own email to the world. You literally just heard her suggest that she found a break in then went to Rafs because she didn't know the local police number, yet by her own timeline from the first trip to the cottage 10:30 ish to ringing the police (12:52) is over two hours and its not even those police that turn up. One has to wonder why her recollection is now so much more favorable when recounted, and lets ignore the idea that the cops would speak to the most important witness for 50 hours without an interpreter when she now apparently didn't understand Italian DNA on the knife, DNA on the clasp, DNA mixed with the victims in luminol in the break in room, fresh knox blood in the sink, mixed DNA in blood (mixed blood in all but name) in 4 locations, luminol prints revealing her bloody footprints, framing innocents, Raf repeating his removal of the alibi in his diary days later, Raf creating lies for the knife in his diary, Rafs foot matching the isolated bathmat print etc etc.
I couldn't finish this, it's amazing how we can indebt a child with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and yet not equipped them to interact with basic necessities of society like legal protection and in this case common sense.
I find this fascinating. Spot on. I did a masters thesis in Forensic Psychology 2006ish on “Eyewitness Testimony” and the unreliability of it. And also how disturbingly easy it is to brainwash people. Memory is disturbingly easy to distort. Also as an atheist Buddhist and 26 years working with juvenile delinquents, you see how easy it is for people to believe what they want and what they think others want them to believe and how prosecutors can be so attached to their egotistical “conviction rates”. And unfortunately ego does play a large part. We are now in an era I saw coming many many years ago. Nearly half of our country is full fledged down the rabbit hole of a cult, totally uninterested in facts and so attached to their beliefs they will go to their deathbeds with them. Crazy times. Sane voices welcome. I’ve never believed Amanda was guilty.
Our criminal justice systems are sort of a horror show. But it's deeper than that; the problem goes further even than culture, and down into our biology. You'd think we'd know better than that by now. We _know_ we're apes! We _know_ that memory is untrustworthy! The amount of sway we've allowed our intuitive sense to gain over hard, empirical method is staggering. 'Eye for an eye' justice is the only version of the word most of us will ever consider. And so we go, walking around imposing subtle punishments on others, in the form of judgment and its passive actions: from riding the tail of somebody who's going slow in the passing lane to _not_ holding the door for somebody who has an apparent scowl, without being critical, our intuitive sense ends up ruling over every little act. Imagine what cumulative affect the effect has, like at the societal level. One shudders to think how many innocent people have 'payed for their crimes,' though they didn't actually commit them.
@@pocket83squared Having worked for the Utah courts for 26 years, I wouldn’t call it a “Horror Show”, many people do their best to help offenders and victims, however I have seen the egos of prosecutors and police take precedence over facts. I found it to be fairly rare, but definitely something that occurred on more than one occasion. It’s disturbing.
It gets better. I also studied Forensic Psychology + spent over a month obsessed with this case. (I even read the 400-page court transcipt) The EW testimonies for this case were so truly embarrassing (and so obviously false and contradictory) that even the desperate prosecution rejected almost all of them. Then of the only two they could actually use, one was so clearly batshit they had to throw him out of the courtroom. Everything was such a farce, I can't believe it got as far as it did.
@@aliasbrush2 Another person who actually relies on the court documents for their information and not youtube 'experts' in body language and from tabloids. How refreshing. 👍👍
Getting the details of the crime scene and the fleeing of Rudy Guede, I felt they were steam rolling Ms. Knox on this case. Negligence of epic proportions! And she's right describing herself as, "Patient zero of social media conviction."
It made me think of the Peter Falconio murder where suspicion was thrown on Joanna Lees because she didn’t behave how the media wanted her to. This is a lesson in critical thinking when it comes to the media.
Having listened to the podcast and watched the documentary, I feel sick at the abuse of power, the level of confirmation bias, the abhorant media treatment and the cynical public reaction. Thank you Sam for offering Amanda a prominent public platform to set things straight(er).
Sam talked about the netflix doco on her so I just watched it. Yeah, like most probably, I just had a recollection of the 'tabloid story' of the trial from several years ago. After watching it I can only say it's about the worst nightmare I could think of. AK was a gorgeous, adventurous young women who was simply incredibly unlucky in sharing a house with another young woman who got murdered. I'm not religious, but I say God Bless Her, I hope she can experience enough joy in the rest of her life to make up for the hideous way she was portrayed by the media and expedient Italian "justice" system. Also: It was amazing she was able to, for probably the umpteenth time, delineate the whole ordeal. I guess at this point it must almost seem like something that happened to someone else, but which she's gotten a PhD in.
As a father my heart goes out to the family of the victim and especially Mrs Amanda such a horrible tragedy she went through And I'm glad there was light at the end of the tunnel for her.
"that we didn't recognize at the time..." Due to my own experience, I was pretty immediately impressed with how her case was hysteria-driven. Amazing how it blinded enough people for long enough to create this story and this phenomenon. Now just imagine contact with the system with anything less than ABSOLUTE PURITY. We may say we believe in redemption. Belief is not enough. We need that word 'hysteria'. Sorry. Maybe there's a better word, less problematic?
even after netflix documentary i was unsure if she really is innocent, but this conversation made it fully clear for me, 100% innocent and now i understand everything
1:29:00 She's talking about a righteous person, Raffaele Sollecito. Spell his name in all caps. He could have cut and run from the truth, and attempted to save himself. Instead, he stood up for the truth and paid the price. A man's MAN!
She describes such a harrowing experience and it was made more so since she was in a foreign country where there was a language barrier. All the while being such a young, inexperienced person. It would definitely be scary for anyone.
One thing many people might not understand about this case is the cult that grew around people who think she is guilty. Some of the most weird deranged people you'll find on the internet..
Some people don’t show emotion in the ways they’re expected to. I really think she was convicted of that above all else. I’ve been over the case with friends, listed the evidence in detail etc and after all that some still said guilty, with no arguments to say why.
I don't think I've ever heard it mentioned explicitly, but if you listen to almost any amount of her show, you realize that Knox is almost def. on the spectrum-something which certainly didn't help in matters of people seeing what they wanted to see by trying to read too much from her behavior.
Absolutely horrifying. For such a smart girl she was incredibly naïve. Should’ve left the country immediately. Italian police are absolutely absolutely incompetent.
She was barely 20 and from a safe and good background with no reason to fear the police so being naive is understandable. And, yes, the Perugia police were incredibly incompetent as the final Supreme Court report pointed out.
@@firefly9838 He's talking about when Sam said that police aren't bloodthirsty mobs trying to kill civilians, the OP just misinterpreted it due to tribalistic biases.
And the fact that a mayor would ask if you heard the victim scream-WHEN she wasn’t home at the time of the killing. Wonder if Amanda Knox can sue the Italian police in that City-where she was mishandled/pressured to give false statements.
Amanda being safe or wanting to feel safe may mean that Rudy Guede has to suffer, whether she wants it or not. That may be the paradox. This may be the case even if none of us has free will, specifically Rudy Guede.
I think you miss the key point from this podcast. Ordinary people's psychological biases result in terrible things. Don't make the same mistake in labeling groups as idiots based on the failings of a few
@@robodog3571 I think this is fair. I mean, this is peanuts compared to the Norfolk 4 case. But Italians really look bad here. They largely rallied by the prosecutor. Their ugliness really showed
This is something I've thought about a lot. Like what if I'm a significant witness to a crime? Especially a time sensitive crime like an abduction or something? What the fuck would I do? If you do talk the cops you might just be setting yourself up for jail. If you don't you might be fucking over a victim somewhere. The cops make it a lose/lose for witnesses.
Hope they pass a law in Italy where police cannot charge suspects with UN-corroborated evidence-meaning Italian police would have to become 100% better than they are.
If Amanda wasn’t a beautiful woman none of this would have happened. When I first started as a lawyer I worked with a partner who told me to turn every case into blood and sex because that’s all people really care about. This case came with ready made blood. Adding a beautiful woman to it gives you all the sex you need.
I just found out about this story and was watching other youtube videos about it. To this day so many of the comments spew vile accusations against Amanda, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's sad to see that the negative public perception still exists, and morons continue to believe she did it.
If ever a case underscored the dangers of the Internet, this would be it. For two years nothing but lies and misinformation was published in the media, all very much anti Amanda. Worse still, multiple people set up websites with the sole purpose of trying to convince people Amanda was guilty. One clue as to their motivation is that NONE of these sites ever allowed anyone who didn't think she was guilty to post a comment. Two of these people, Naseer Ahmad and Peggy Ganong have since given up their obsessions, but one very sick individual, Peter Quennell, still obsesses, still runs his hate site, and still lies to this day. These people had an incredible influence on the public's perception of the case. The Internet is a wonderful mechanism to distribute valuable information at a global level, but unfortunately it also gives people a platform to spread their hate and ignorance.
@@TheTruthCalls Well said. In addition, there are YT video sites, including Pat Brown's, that ban anyone who embarrasses them by posting evidence that disproves their claims. Rather than addressing that evidence, they just remove their posts.
"Long sentences and the death penalty just don't work" So recidivism isn't a thing? If Rudy Guede was still in jail, no ex-girlfriend would be in fear for her life right now. Would have worked in that case.
I didn't realise how stitched up Amanda Knox was and admire so much her wise attitude to that injustice. I too suspected there was some fire behind the smoke but was misled by poor information and my own cynicism.
My life became a nighmare when abroad due to not being understood, possibily due to trying to speak in the 'native' language. Shows how important shared language is!
The fact she didn’t have COMPETENT interpreters. You can tell immediately how fluent or NOT someone is speaking. Sad her mom couldn’t demand a competent interpreter-and Italian authorities didn’t even do an adequate job of investigating a crime. Is this how the Italian judicial system works. So scary!
The interpreter (Anna Donnino) was competent insomuch as she understood English and could translate accurately. The problem, as the ECHR found, was that the interpreter was not an IMPARTIAL interpreter, but acted more as an agent of the police (an interrogator). She went so far as to suggest to Knox that she had traumatic 'amnesia' which is why Knox couldn't remember what 'really happened' when she denied having anything to do with the murder or taking Lumumba there. That was a violation of Knox's right to an impartial interpreter.
Amanda is incredible. And so are you Sam. I've thought Amanda great ever since the Netflix doc, even though I never thought she was guilty, but you've really showcased what an intelligent and gracious person she is. I'll be sharing this on all my socials in the hope the *extent* of her innocence can reach ppl who haven't yet realized it. Thank you. Keep up the great work. I've just signed up for your app :)
Not guilty. Anyone who says otherwise-- doesn't care about evidence hates semi attractive young women hates women who are intimate out of wedlock AND/OR loves getting off on someone's demise.
@@bikebudha01 See list above. Did you listen to this podcast or watch the doc? Why should anyone debate with anyone who doesn't do the work. Your bias is boring and horrific.
@@bikebudha01 the prosecutor was himself convicted later of abuse of power, and this wasn't even the first case in which he had hallucinated sex orgies and complex conspiracies to embellish and overcopmplicate what was essentially a simple murder case with a single perpetrator.
Haters and self-important big mouths who think they're oh-so contrarian and original if they join in with the italian catholic countryside state attorney, who also happens to believe in various catholic/right wing conspiracy theories. Ridiculous.
Nice to know that the Italian police have all the investigative skills of Inspector Clouseau chasing down Jack the Ripper in the 1800s. What's the compensation for wrongful imprisonment in Italy? Cappuccino machine?
Apparently there is no compensation. Who knows how many other people have been railroaded in the Italian system. And that prosecutor? Not the first time his highly tuned intuition wrongly accused an innocent party.
The number one lesson to take away from this is: follow the script at all times: 1. Why did you pull me over? 2. I am not discussing my day. 3. Am I being detained or am I free to go? 4. I invoke the fifth. 5. STFU Never talk to the police.
She brings up one of the reasons I left religion: Way too many people only see what they already believe, and then don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. And the human mind can justify anything. F'ing pathetic.
When someone gives you a document to sign making an admission, and right there on the desk is another document proving that to be a falsehood... I know what that feels like. If you are the kind of person who can do that, we will not get along well. Because you deserve to be punished.
yes , it’s such an eye opening broadcast ! The italian justice system has a bad reputation all over the EU- of course in a country with that much corruption it’s logical that it’s justice system is also corrupt.
I remember the story ... but not following it closely. I just watched the documentary ... Makes me really mad. That prosecutor and his fantasies ... and the damage he has done. He should be the one locked up for 26 years.
Because he opted for a fast track trial which automatically reduces a sentence by 1/3rd. He originally was sentenced to 30 years, it was reduced to 24 on appeal and then 1/3 of 24 was deducted. One third of 24 is 8 so it was reduced to 16 years. He got out early for 'good behavior'.
I know. Every other resident of that house, the four boys downstairs and the two Italian girls upstairs, lawyered up immediately. Amanda's mother, as stated in this interview, urged Amanda to get on a plane home to Seattle or board a train to Germany, where her German maternal relatives lived. But Amanda wanted to "help" the police in their inquiries, and so they were free to railroad her.
Because there was no reason for them to think she needed a lawyer as she was not identified as a suspect, only as a witness. Her mother, Edda, arranged for a flight to Italy ASAP and was on a plane to Rome when Knox was arrested.
@mytrip6991 Ok, now this is getting silly. There is always a reason to have representation when dealing with police, but especially when your roommate was just murdered, you do not speak or read the language, nor know the laws or legal system, and because cops lie. The naivete on the part of her and her family as to the risks is shocking.
I've spared many for Meredith (who is at peace) and her family (who have been lied to). Doesn't stop me from caring about the justice system, Amanda's personal case, and what we all need to understand about human fallibility.
Did I have the free will to realize "We don't cause what causes what happens to us" ? The causal universe is just running - enjoy the random-yet-causal ride.
I was genuinely shocked to see that this was his next guest because having never followed her story at all, all I knew was her name, her face, and that she was in the news for murder years ago. The fact that she was innocent and exonerated is something I just learned today. Crazy.
If ever you need an example of why you should never talk to police, especially when innocent, here it is.
Never without a lawyer. Exceptions for traffic stops, where acting like a sovereign citizen is likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.
That increasing state of suggestability is so understandable from how the interrogation unfolded, I really admire how well Amanda recounts it too... What a nightmare to realize way too late what was actually going on.
you would admire Casey Anthony too, they are similar type women
@@user-ee6dz3rd9g What an ignorant, if not completely baseless claim to make. Casey Anthony was responsible for a small child. While in her care, Caylee died. Casey Anthony could never explain how or why that happened. Her lies were so blatant, so easily proven false, and they were designed to throw people off her track. The job she didn't have, the nanny that wasn't, etc., etc. How you think this woman is anything like Amanda is beyond me. I think it actually says a lot more about you than anyone else.
@@TheTruthCalls It goes to show you a certain percentage of the population will cling to a lie all the way to their graves. There are those who wonder how witch hunts happen. The above commenter is the perfect example.
I've watched several RUclips videos of lawyers explaining what can go wrong when you talk to the police, and why you should never do it without counsel. Her story validates everything they say.
Yeah, there really should be more education about this, and I mean just in your own country in your own language. I was somewhat lucky in that I was tangentially linked to a bad murder case in the US, where I'm from (like never even remotely a suspect, but they wanted to use me to establish something about the suspect's character). I was flat-out lied to by the police, and I was 16 and couldn't believe it (luckily didn't bend and they just dropped that line of inquiry). That peeled the wool from my eyes at a young age.
As for foreign language, although I later came to speak French quite well (and still do), I mean, when I first got there, I mean, yeah, there's no way I would have been capable of dealing with any of that. I was a great French student, lol, but when I first got there, I was awkward just with basic stuff, like small talk during a meal, what have you, let alone anything legal or just anything complex! What a nightmare.
Why did she put up with it? Was she under arrest?
@@patrickdoyle9304 Did you listen to the whole podcast? SHe explains it pretty well, but basically, she didn't think she was a suspect, and she was told they needed her help as a witness (in short). But I've had people, Americans to boot, say to my face, "Yeah, I'd talk to the police. I have nothing to hide." It's an incorrect approach, but it's not uncommon.
@@brek5
It's an unfortunate situation, and one of the things police should be held deeply accountable for. Police can make mistakes, of course. It's a tough job. But they've created a situation where innocent people who have useful information, are better off not talking (or at least, waiting until they've checked everything with legal council), delaying the investigation while trails are still hot. In turn, police get more zealous to get that information and use more bad tactics, which escalates the cycle.
Fortunately it should be mostly solvable with proper checks and standards. Until then, perhaps best to be clear about it.
@@patrickdoyle9304she thought she was helping
I didn't even realize Amanda was innocent until I heard this! Sorry for my ignorance, Amanda, and thank you for setting the record straight. In a much broader sense, for global society, Amanda's description of what it's like to have strangers make assumptions about you based off of wildly inaccurate projections and warped social constructs is an extremely common experience in the life of a persecuted minority in 2023. I think Amanda's resilience is a powerful example for many in that specific situation, and I thank her for sharing.
Ok, if she says she's innocent, case closed.
@@Mac-ku3xu Her and anyone with the tiniest shred of common sense and the ability to read words knows she is innocent. Its really hard tonimagine how stupid someone has to be to think she did it, the whole crazy case against her was because of one insane Italian investigator who was obsessed with his fantasy that the murder was part of some sex ritual that got out of hand, because that's obviously a thing lol
@@Mac-ku3xu She has been found innocent. Your "where there's smoke, there's fire" argument is not based on evidence
Are you sure she was found innocent? As in OJ was found to be innocent also? Yeah, her conviction was overturned. We don't know if she participated in the murder do we? OJ Simpson was complaining about the police also. Is he innocent also? @@heavylifts2221
@@Mac-ku3xuok if they say she’s guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence that she’s not I guess she is cuz the media said so.
Makes you wonder how many more cases like this there are.
Which is another level of Terrifying.
@@Zenithx3IKR?
That same prosecutor once accused a reporter covering a crime story of being the serial killer behind it all. Fortunately, the reporter knew when to get out of Dodge, and did. Hopefully if there's a Hell, that prosecutor will end up in the same cage as Rudy The Murdering Rapist!
It just kills me that after all this time, and after they caught the guy who actually did it, who left fluids inside meredith and poo in the toilet and bloody handprints on the wall, people STILL think Amanda had something to do with it.
Edit: just finished the interview, and thank you Sam and Amanda so much for this. It seems like I'm angrier about Amanda's enemies than she is. And I can't recommend staying off social media highly enough. I think it's a big part of my sanity. RUclips is about the only network I use.
Right?!?! I was feeling the same way. I want JUSTICE for the evil prosecutor, corrupt police and lazy, unethical people at every level who perpetrated this crime against her. SO much wrong with what happened for years!
That said, it is interesting that her submissive and passive attitude is what caused her to become a victim, AND is why she is so smoothly able to deal with it all now. Quite a different mindset to what I would have been like.
@@jraelien5798you tube has much more educational content. Including how-to’s for any skill. Definitely more real life rewards to this social media. But as always: use this tool well!
@@jraelien5798 Sono italiano e mi vergogno per i torti fatti ad Amanda : condivido la tua opinione !
The horrible thing about this is how poor Meredith was almost completely forgotten due to police incompetence.
Meredith died an agonising death. She effectively drowned in her own blood as it filled her lungs.
@EASYTIGER10 Only God forgives sicko.
You got it.
And hardly mentioned within this podcast.
This podcast wasn't about her. You're literally doing the exact thing she talks about towards the end. People get mad at her for talking about HER experience because they think it somehow is disrespectful to Meredith. Amanda spent years in prison for absolutely 0 reason, being totally innocent. She's telling her story. It doesn't and shouldn't be focused entirely on Meredith. What happened to Meredith was tragic but so was what happened to Amanda. Let her tell her story. @@jeffersonianideal
The "body language" experts that are all over RUclips talking about her with millions of views are some of the most pseudoscientific cancerous shit on this site. It's really maddening/depressing. It's great to hear that Amanda seems to be doing better, hopefully she knows that she's got a huge amount of supporters that root for her. This was an impressive interview where she really showed her intelligence and ability to convey her thoughts/feelings.
Could not agree more.
Absolutely agree with you 100%! It's amazing how many people swallow that crap.
I respect the 4 men who are experts in body language. The Behavior Panel.
I rewatched their videos about Amanda Knox for a second time after listening to this Making Sense episode.
Their second video is very different from the first.
It is true that the interview that they watched shows AK choosing words that don’t make sense for the crime that was committed.
It was an unfortunate interview for Amanda Knox.
@@2007moogly Could you give an example or two of what these words were and how they "don't make sense for the crime that was committed?
Body language analysis is such quackery.
The thing I always think about with this case is that it may be over for Amanda Knox, but this is apparently how the Italian justice system works. We only know about all this because she's an American and she got a lot of media attention. Just think of all the crazy going down over there that we'll never know about. It's pretty horrific.
This happens in the US as well but the media rarely reports it.
@@davidduarte2887no doubt
I know Joe Rogan isn't everyones favourite person in this podcast hemisphere but he had a bunch of great talks with Josh Dublin which is an "Ambassador" for the Innocence Project. A project dedicated to those kind of cases. Basically the same thing happens in the US all the time.
Let me tell you about the "great" American justice. Several months ago I got hit by a truck driver as I was going on the green light. He did not stop at his red light and struck me at full force.
A pedestrian ( mentally challenged) was walking on the side walk as the truck driver hit me. As I was being taken to the hospital, the truck driver lied and blamed me for accident and had manipulated the pedestrian to say it was my fault. The police man WITHOUT DOING ANY INVESTIGATIONS believed him.
I got accused, given a citation while in the hospital injured in agonizing pain. I was screaming in agony I was being unjustly accused and screaming told the police to get video footage from street light that would prove I was wrongly accusedTHEY DID NOTHING.
Weeks later a person with dash camera appeared out of nowhere. She had recorded video of accident that proved I was wrongly accused.
I want to sue the police for their utter incompetence and negligence but they told me in the Usa the police has immunity, something called qualified immunity and they will not be held responsible for their negligence.
I was in absolute agony and all because of the UTTER INCOMPETENCE of police.
The American justice system is even worse.
As an Italian, let me assure you that the main issue with our justice system is that obviously guilty individuals end up free or with laughably short sentences, not the other way round (which, if I may, is more of a US thing). The Italian system is an excessively guarantist one, if anything. Amanda's case was down to an astonishingly coincidental collection of incompetent figures, rather than a systemic bloodlust
I'm 27 minutes in and can't believe my ears. This woman went through a real life Kafka novel
Wow and you’re comment mirrors Sam Harris’s two minutes later
@@tutstut6909, wow you're right! I'm only returning to the rest of the podcast now, and sure enough he called it a Kafkaesque experience. Not a huge coincidence, really, because it's such a fitting description.
@@stylovorelove term kafkaesque and is appropriate here
And for some reason the tabloids attempted to destroy her . Who owned those tabloids?
@@jjreddick377the Jews.. (this is a joke just to be clear)
Brilliant interview. When I watched the Netflix documentary I definitely went from the "there's no smoke without fire" view to "holy smokes!" But this conversation brought out so much more insight. It just shows what trust and rapport can bring out of someone and I'm thankful just to be able to listen; a lot of the time in complete disbelief that such a tragedy of events could happen to someone so absurdly.
And something just as absurd happened to Patrick Lumumba who had his life ruined by Miss Cox's false accusation. Mr. Harris left it unaddressed so as not to sully the mutual admiration orgy this podcast culminated in.
@@twntwrs It's KNOX, not "Cox". It wasn't KNOX, but the police who coerced her into making those statements, which, by the way, she recanted within hours in writing TWICE and gave to the police. She also told her lawyers, in writing, with 3 days.
Patrick Lumumba has lied repeatedly about Knox. I suggest you look at his public statements to the media and compare them to his sworn testimony in court. He contradicts himself regarding her being jealous of Kercher, firing her, and not being abused by the police.
Lumumba had every reason to be angry. Unfortunately, he directed his anger at the wrong person. He should have focused on the Italian police, and sued them for as much as he could get out of them. Of course... Mr. Lumumba is probably terrified of the police. Not so much so concerning Knox.
I almost fell for it. I'm so glad I heard this discussion. It was revealing, lucid, gripping. Having lived in several other countries, we all have the underlying worry that Amanda lived through - that should something go wrong, we do not have the benefit of citizenry, culture, language, or mindstate of our host countries. I commend her so damn much for coming through this and not allowing it to break her. For someone with her perceived image, she is remarkably introspective while remaining forward thinking. I think that's courage. Thanks for this, Sam, and especially Amanda.
Amanda's courage through all of this is an inspiration for any person who has been wrongly accused. Police ineptitude inflicts so much psychological damage on victims such as Amanda. This situation shatters trust in institutions.
Interesting that they sentenced the rapist killer to 16 years, after trying to sentence her to 26-28.
What explains that?
Guede opted for a fast track trial (in front of a judge, no jury trial, etc.) that automatically reduces a sentence by 1/3. Original sentence of 30 years was reduced on appeal to 24. One third reduction (8 years) of 24 years is 16 years.
@@reinforcedpenisstem See my explanation to M.Linoge.
A disgraceful sentence for such a crime, in some countries he would be put to death for that, even in Britain where some ridiculously light sentences are handed out, for this type of crime he would be doing 25 years minimum and might even get a whole life tariff. 16 years is an insult to the victim and her family. And he was actually released after 13 years, wtf?
That's why it's so important to tell everyone to not talk to the police without a lawyer.
That doesn't sound like a misunderstanding, more like gaslighting and police worse criminals than most they put into prison.
I never heard that anyone had to face consequences for that.
It's terrifying to an agreeable person like myself how easy it is for incompetent narcissists to ruin your life, your wellbeing, without reason. Make me want to stay inside.
"to an agreeable person like myself" is exactly what an incompetent narcissist would say. #narc-ception
BUT FOXY KNOXY THOUGH IT RHYMES HOW CLEVER
When Knox asked how Sam Harris was addressing his Doppelgänger-version which is out there I thought for a second that Sam Harris would be addressing Ben Stiller
So, not just me then. 😆😁
Thank you Sam for giving us the opportunity to hear this amazing conversation! ❤
She seems like a very wise and smart woman. To go through such an horrific ordeal and to talk about it with no bitterness and finger pointing is something beyond exemplary.
She's not quite as innocent as one would like to believe. She was not a victim, Meredith was! Clearly, she has been coached and has PR help.
I hate to say this but I think she was unfairly judged based largely on her looks.
Even privileged white folks can be judged based on their looks believe it or not. I’ve seen it and experienced it myself. I’m actually half Mexican but took after my mom’s Irish side and have always been perceived as fully white.
I have trippy eyes and have been falsely accused of being high on everything from LSD to Ecstacy to Speed.
Not only that, but I’ve had asthma and acute allergies my whole life which gives me glassy eyes to boot.
I heard so many people judge Amanda Knox at the time based on her looks and her eyes.
I heard numerous comparisons to the young female Manson followers.
People always say, “you can tell from the eyes.”
By all accounts she seems like a good & likable person, I also saw her on Theo Von’s podcast.
Glad she’s getting her story out.
And how many of those morons who can see "guilt" in a person's eyes, end up serving on juries? That's the frightening part!
Fantastic conversation between two intelligent people. Nice change of pace in this world.
psychopaths appear to be intelligent
45m mark, Sams' laughter and description of the prosecutor had me laugh out loud. You don't get to hear Sam laugh like that often.
Sam's use of the word "buffoon" has a genuinely engaging cadence to it.
for more of sam's laughs you must listen to the podcast he did with his wife Annaka... it was soooo fun
I can't get over how many people here imagine she is guilty. Who imagines that a 20 year old girl studying abroad decides a month after she arrives to butcher her 20 year old female roommate then calls the police on herself and cooperates during dozens of hours of interrogations. Oh and manages to leave semen and male African DNA inside her victim. Obviously she did it lol. Its crazy how eagerly people believe the most idiotic absurd nonsense just because they read it online
The Knox case was indeed a stark reminder of how easily we are willing to condemn individuals on flimsy evidence. That part of the human heart never goes away.
Well, I wouldn't say "we". Sure it's a lot of people but the types who tend to think more critically and scientifically about things are much less likely to. Honestly I think I'm immune to it.
Ironically Ms. Cox did precisely the same thing implicating Patrick Lumumba which ruined his life in Italy and neither she nor Mr. Harris had the intellectual or ethical honesty to even be bothered to bring that up.
They did bring up the topic, albeit briefly.
@@twntwrs How many times are you going to be told it is "Knox" and not "Cox"?
One more time. Amanda was coerced into implication Lumumba. She recanted this by way of two letters she wrote immediately after being arrested. It was the police who thought he was involved. It was the police who coerced her into implicating him. It was the police who held him for two weeks when they had nothing on him, and during which time several people who had been at the bar came forward providing him an alibi, something the police chose to ignore. And BTW, it was the police who kept his bar closed for two months, or more than six weeks after he was released and declared not involved. Yet you continue to put this on Amanda. I'm guessing critical thought isn't one of your specialties.
In fairness, some of the media articles on this case were disgustingly biased, and any neutral person would have been convinced of her guilt if they trusted these sources. I remember seeing photos in the British press of the bathroom Amanda used after the murder had taken place, and the pictures showed that the shower was stained from top to bottom in Meredith's blood.
... What they failed to mention is that these images were taken AFTER luminol had been sprayed all over the scene to highlight the blood that had been scrubbed away and was invisble. So the shower would have actually appeared pristine and spotless at the time Amanda saw it.
I could give a long list of all the other things I saw/read about the case that turned out to be gross media spin.
Never talk to the cops. Ever. No matter what.
Especially Italian cops.
@@xensonar9652 absolute kangaroo court 🦘
Lesson to self: if traveling abroad, learn the destination’s word for lawyer.
@@skonther0ck & don’t visit countries who don’t grant due process to the accused.
This case was a national disgrace for Italy.
She killed this podcast!
☠️
Freudian verb
Here's a frustratingly obvious question: Where the hell was the U.S. embassy while this 20-year-old U.S. citizen was being interrogated by the Italian police? Seems to me the embassy could at least have provided a competent legal interpreter for her.
When American Toyota executive Julie Hamp was arrested by the Japanese police in 2015 for actually committing a crime -- i.e., trying to smuggle oxycontin into Japan for her own use -- then-Ambassador Caroline Kennedy intervened and sprang Hamp from jail within days.
Follow the $. As much as the US pretends to not be a class based society...
"Where the hell was the U.S. embassy while this 20-year-old U.S. citizen was being interrogated by the Italian police?"
The US embassy in Rome was only notified by Italy AFTER Knox was interrogated and arrested. They did not know that Knox was a suspect or being interrogated. Once notified, they kept tabs on what was going on and visited Knox regularly.
The pro-guilt often claim Knox was only acquitted due to US government interference which is not true at all. The US let the Italian judicial process play out as was correct.
@@mytrip6991 "The US embassy in Rome was only notified by Italy AFTER Knox was interrogated and arrested."
Well that's interesting. So apparently the Italians didn't allow Amanda to contact her family or anyone else she knew while she was being interrogated. Otherwise, notifying the embassy is the first thing they would have done, it seems to me.
"The US let the Italian judicial process play out as was correct."
Which begs the question: If that's the correct approach, why didn't the U.S. let the Japanese judicial process play out in the case of the Toyota executive, rather than having the ambassador intervene?
@@randyevermore9323 Correct. The police did not allow Knox to contact anyone during the interrogation, even a lawyer.
The police were also not required to contact the US embassy until she was officially detained.
As for Hamp, you'd have to ask the Japanese prosecutors why they decided not to press charges. I suspect it was mutually beneficial for both the US and Japan to let the case drop. AIUI, the CEO of Toyota supported Hamp and Toyota is very powerful in Japan.
Regarding Knox, unless it's felt than an arrest is unjustified, interfering in an ally's judicial process is not wise. We would not welcome interference in our own judicial process so why should we expect another country to? Especially in a high profile murder case.
It's the first time I've ever listened to anything beyond sound bites about this history. Best wishes to you Amanda!
All the best to Amanda Knox, who sounds like a stand-up person with a great deal of empathy and intelligence.
Great conversation. Echos of early, actual, religious witch-hunts and crimes against women. It feels as though we have not learned from the past. This airing of the experience was needed. Thank you.
It’s Italy back then they still lived in the past
@@mikegoldstein7112 Examples??....
@@TheTruthCalls There is loads against her, that strangely (not strangely) she doesn't mention. But here is a fun fact. In the opening minutes she describes going home, finding a break in and returning Rafs because she didn't know 112, coming back, calling the police and the police arriving.
What actually happened by her own statements is that she didn't find the break in that first visit that morning, she went to Rafs, had a leisurely hour long breakfast, went back to the cottage, spotted the break in, then waited a further 30 mins called the police and then a completely different police force arrived by chance.
Guess who rewrites reality to make their story look better
@@bigleady Well now, if there's "loads against her" then I assume it shouldn't be too difficult for you to cite some of it?
As for your fun fact, she is giving an account of something that happened 17 years ago. As it turned out, what she discovered when she went home was in fact a burglary, even if she didn't know that at the time. So 17 years later she now correctly states she went home and discovers a break-in.
Exactly how is she rewriting history? It seems both accounts have her going to the cottage, finding something wrong, returning to Raffaele's, explaining what she found, going back to the cottage, then calling the police. You claim "What actually happened by her own statements is.." but then you make up your own details. She never claimed to have a "leisurely hour long breakfast" nor did she ever claim to "waited a further 30 mins" before calling the police. Those are your details as you try to turn this into something it isn't. The only real difference is that at the time she did not know the cottage had been broken into, but as she tells the story now, she does.
I await the loads of evidence...
Oh, and BTW, my question to mikegoldstein7112 was what evidence contradicts many of her claims. Are you prepared to cite what claims and what evidence contradicts them?
@@TheTruthCalls There is no point (if you cared you'd find it) so just focus on the immediate question. Its literally the defining morning of her life and yet when its told now (after constant repeating it over time so the idea that 15 years matters is crap) it bears at best a passing resemblance to her own email to the world. You literally just heard her suggest that she found a break in then went to Rafs because she didn't know the local police number, yet by her own timeline from the first trip to the cottage 10:30 ish to ringing the police (12:52) is over two hours and its not even those police that turn up. One has to wonder why her recollection is now so much more favorable when recounted, and lets ignore the idea that the cops would speak to the most important witness for 50 hours without an interpreter when she now apparently didn't understand Italian
DNA on the knife, DNA on the clasp, DNA mixed with the victims in luminol in the break in room, fresh knox blood in the sink, mixed DNA in blood (mixed blood in all but name) in 4 locations, luminol prints revealing her bloody footprints, framing innocents, Raf repeating his removal of the alibi in his diary days later, Raf creating lies for the knife in his diary, Rafs foot matching the isolated bathmat print etc etc.
I couldn't finish this, it's amazing how we can indebt a child with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and yet not equipped them to interact with basic necessities of society like legal protection and in this case common sense.
I find this fascinating. Spot on. I did a masters thesis in Forensic Psychology 2006ish on “Eyewitness Testimony” and the unreliability of it. And also how disturbingly easy it is to brainwash people. Memory is disturbingly easy to distort. Also as an atheist Buddhist and 26 years working with juvenile delinquents, you see how easy it is for people to believe what they want and what they think others want them to believe and how prosecutors can be so attached to their egotistical “conviction rates”. And unfortunately ego does play a large part. We are now in an era I saw coming many many years ago. Nearly half of our country is full fledged down the rabbit hole of a cult, totally uninterested in facts and so attached to their beliefs they will go to their deathbeds with them. Crazy times. Sane voices welcome. I’ve never believed Amanda was guilty.
Our criminal justice systems are sort of a horror show. But it's deeper than that; the problem goes further even than culture, and down into our biology. You'd think we'd know better than that by now. We _know_ we're apes! We _know_ that memory is untrustworthy!
The amount of sway we've allowed our intuitive sense to gain over hard, empirical method is staggering. 'Eye for an eye' justice is the only version of the word most of us will ever consider. And so we go, walking around imposing subtle punishments on others, in the form of judgment and its passive actions: from riding the tail of somebody who's going slow in the passing lane to _not_ holding the door for somebody who has an apparent scowl, without being critical, our intuitive sense ends up ruling over every little act.
Imagine what cumulative affect the effect has, like at the societal level. One shudders to think how many innocent people have 'payed for their crimes,' though they didn't actually commit them.
@@pocket83squared Having worked for the Utah courts for 26 years, I wouldn’t call it a “Horror Show”, many people do their best to help offenders and victims, however I have seen the egos of prosecutors and police take precedence over facts. I found it to be fairly rare, but definitely something that occurred on more than one occasion. It’s disturbing.
WELL SAID! I could not agree with your more!
It gets better. I also studied Forensic Psychology + spent over a month obsessed with this case. (I even read the 400-page court transcipt) The EW testimonies for this case were so truly embarrassing (and so obviously false and contradictory) that even the desperate prosecution rejected almost all of them. Then of the only two they could actually use, one was so clearly batshit they had to throw him out of the courtroom. Everything was such a farce, I can't believe it got as far as it did.
@@aliasbrush2 Another person who actually relies on the court documents for their information and not youtube 'experts' in body language and from tabloids. How refreshing.
👍👍
Getting the details of the crime scene and the fleeing of Rudy Guede, I felt they were steam rolling Ms. Knox on this case.
Negligence of epic proportions! And she's right describing herself as, "Patient zero of social media conviction."
It made me think of the Peter Falconio murder where suspicion was thrown on Joanna Lees because she didn’t behave how the media wanted her to. This is a lesson in critical thinking when it comes to the media.
Having listened to the podcast and watched the documentary, I feel sick at the abuse of power, the level of confirmation bias, the abhorant media treatment and the cynical public reaction.
Thank you Sam for offering Amanda a prominent public platform to set things straight(er).
Wow, thank you for this interview Amanda and Sam. Absolutely horrifying.
Sam talked about the netflix doco on her so I just watched it. Yeah, like most probably, I just had a recollection of the 'tabloid story' of the trial from several years ago. After watching it I can only say it's about the worst nightmare I could think of. AK was a gorgeous, adventurous young women who was simply incredibly unlucky in sharing a house with another young woman who got murdered. I'm not religious, but I say God Bless Her, I hope she can experience enough joy in the rest of her life to make up for the hideous way she was portrayed by the media and expedient Italian "justice" system. Also: It was amazing she was able to, for probably the umpteenth time, delineate the whole ordeal. I guess at this point it must almost seem like something that happened to someone else, but which she's gotten a PhD in.
And law enforcement does not understand why people distrust them. Smh
As a father my heart goes out to the family of the victim and especially Mrs Amanda such a horrible tragedy she went through And I'm glad there was light at the end of the tunnel for her.
What I don't get is that if there were men in her life why they wouldn't tell her not to talk to the police without a lawyer
@@ryccohweird question
If Amanda Knox was the first to be "tried" in social media, which she was, why haven't we learned anything? Why has the problem only gotten worse?
human nature...
"that we didn't recognize at the time..."
Due to my own experience, I was pretty immediately impressed with how her case was hysteria-driven. Amazing how it blinded enough people for long enough to create this story and this phenomenon. Now just imagine contact with the system with anything less than ABSOLUTE PURITY. We may say we believe in redemption. Belief is not enough.
We need that word 'hysteria'. Sorry. Maybe there's a better word, less problematic?
even after netflix documentary i was unsure if she really is innocent, but this conversation made it fully clear for me, 100% innocent and now i understand everything
She's got a great podcast-although many of the most recent episodes are pretty lackluster to be generous, I recommend giving it a listen.
I love how clearly Amanda speaks.
People say this is why you shouldnt talk to the police. But it really is more important to keep african and middel eastern immigrants out of Europe.
1:29:00 She's talking about a righteous person, Raffaele Sollecito. Spell his name in all caps. He could have cut and run from the truth, and attempted to save himself. Instead, he stood up for the truth and paid the price. A man's MAN!
I couldn't agree more! RESPECT.!
1:35:38
Is the process of a person changing their mind about having (or not having) free will a demonstration of free will?
She describes such a harrowing experience and it was made more so since she was in a foreign country where there was a language barrier. All the while being such a young, inexperienced person. It would definitely be scary for anyone.
Ya, especially if you were worried about getting caught.
@@acetate909who was worried about getting caught? Caught for what?
One thing many people might not understand about this case is the cult that grew around people who think she is guilty. Some of the most weird deranged people you'll find on the internet..
That you, Amanda ?
@@user-ru4iq3ss9m No. Are you a cult member.... because you sound like a cult member
Who killed Meredith ??
Some of them are in this comment section!
@@patrickdoyle9304Rudy Guede
Some people don’t show emotion in the ways they’re expected to. I really think she was convicted of that above all else.
I’ve been over the case with friends, listed the evidence in detail etc and after all that some still said guilty, with no arguments to say why.
Isn't that fascinating? We all have biases, but some of us think our biases are always to be trusted, no matter what....
I don't think I've ever heard it mentioned explicitly, but if you listen to almost any amount of her show, you realize that Knox is almost def. on the spectrum-something which certainly didn't help in matters of people seeing what they wanted to see by trying to read too much from her behavior.
@@ColbyARussell yes, i’ve always got that vibe
@@ColbyARussell Very interesting. How sad, too. What a perfect storm. Terrible for her. I have to admire her resiliency, though.
just looked through a few current articles and it blew me away how many people still just think amanda is a murder 'because she just looks like it'
Absolutely horrifying. For such a smart girl she was incredibly naïve. Should’ve left the country immediately. Italian police are absolutely absolutely incompetent.
She was barely 20 and from a safe and good background with no reason to fear the police so being naive is understandable. And, yes, the Perugia police were incredibly incompetent as the final Supreme Court report pointed out.
Despite what Sam might imply in other podcasts, the police are virtually never your friend, never ever talk to them without a lawyer present.
I think this advice is compatible with the 2020 podcast about how the main BLM claims were factually dubious.
Of course thats the case. Who would think police are your friends?
@@firefly9838 He's talking about when Sam said that police aren't bloodthirsty mobs trying to kill civilians, the OP just misinterpreted it due to tribalistic biases.
Great discussion, thanks Sam and Amanda. Cool to see Amanda is looking into things like meditation and examining the nature of the self.
And the fact that a mayor would ask if you heard the victim scream-WHEN she wasn’t home at the time of the killing. Wonder if Amanda Knox can sue the Italian police in that City-where she was mishandled/pressured to give false statements.
Amanda being safe or wanting to feel safe may mean that Rudy Guede has to suffer, whether she wants it or not. That may be the paradox. This may be the case even if none of us has free will, specifically Rudy Guede.
Some people commenting seem to think they are judge and jury. Shame on you.
That's RUclips for you.
I sometimes think the Italians should put up signs at their international airports reading "Morons in power -- enter country at your own risk."
100% true
We've got our share of idiots in positions of authority here in the US as well.
@@wthomas5697 Yes. Watch the documentary on the Norfolk 4.
I think you miss the key point from this podcast. Ordinary people's psychological biases result in terrible things. Don't make the same mistake in labeling groups as idiots based on the failings of a few
@@robodog3571 I think this is fair. I mean, this is peanuts compared to the Norfolk 4 case. But Italians really look bad here. They largely rallied by the prosecutor. Their ugliness really showed
This is something I've thought about a lot. Like what if I'm a significant witness to a crime? Especially a time sensitive crime like an abduction or something? What the fuck would I do? If you do talk the cops you might just be setting yourself up for jail. If you don't you might be fucking over a victim somewhere. The cops make it a lose/lose for witnesses.
Hope they pass a law in Italy where police cannot charge suspects with UN-corroborated evidence-meaning Italian police would have to become 100% better than they are.
I love listening to Sam talk. There’s not too many around like him
Very reminiscent of the Lindy Chamberlain case in Australia in the 80s.
I enjoyed her series on the WakingUp App. Interesting life story and a lot of good, practical wisdom.
So much wisdom and empathy from Amanda, you are an example, I am so happy you could rebuild your life, a big hug
If Amanda wasn’t a beautiful woman none of this would have happened. When I first started as a lawyer I worked with a partner who told me to turn every case into blood and sex because that’s all people really care about. This case came with ready made blood. Adding a beautiful woman to it gives you all the sex you need.
Nonsense
@@patrickdoyle9304 projection.
*Never forget* You have the right to remain silent. Until you have a lawyer, keep your mouth _shut_ .
I just found out about this story and was watching other youtube videos about it. To this day so many of the comments spew vile accusations against Amanda, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's sad to see that the negative public perception still exists, and morons continue to believe she did it.
Well said. Ignorance never stopped anyone from having a opinion and being more than happy to share it.
If ever a case underscored the dangers of the Internet, this would be it. For two years nothing but lies and misinformation was published in the media, all very much anti Amanda. Worse still, multiple people set up websites with the sole purpose of trying to convince people Amanda was guilty. One clue as to their motivation is that NONE of these sites ever allowed anyone who didn't think she was guilty to post a comment. Two of these people, Naseer Ahmad and Peggy Ganong have since given up their obsessions, but one very sick individual, Peter Quennell, still obsesses, still runs his hate site, and still lies to this day. These people had an incredible influence on the public's perception of the case. The Internet is a wonderful mechanism to distribute valuable information at a global level, but unfortunately it also gives people a platform to spread their hate and ignorance.
@@TheTruthCalls Well said. In addition, there are YT video sites, including Pat Brown's, that ban anyone who embarrasses them by posting evidence that disproves their claims. Rather than addressing that evidence, they just remove their posts.
"Long sentences and the death penalty just don't work" So recidivism isn't a thing? If Rudy Guede was still in jail, no ex-girlfriend would be in fear for her life right now. Would have worked in that case.
Amanda is clearly a better person than I am. If I'd lived her life I'd be even more cynically hateful against the powers that be than I am.
Yep, only 15 minutes into this, and I just cannot believe what I am hearing! It's 2020 something and we're still burning witches
They're still burning the witches, and they're still so certain they're r-i-g-h-t. That's the scariest part.
I didn't realise how stitched up Amanda Knox was and admire so much her wise attitude to that injustice. I too suspected there was some fire behind the smoke but was misled by poor information and my own cynicism.
She’s lying. Don’t just take her word on this dig deeper
I did. Her story rings true.@@user-ru4iq3ss9m
@@user-ru4iq3ss9m Found the schitzo
My life became a nighmare when abroad due to not being understood, possibily due to trying to speak in the 'native' language. Shows how important shared language is!
The fact she didn’t have COMPETENT interpreters. You can tell immediately how fluent or NOT someone is speaking. Sad her mom couldn’t demand a competent interpreter-and Italian authorities didn’t even do an adequate job of investigating a crime. Is this how the Italian judicial system works. So scary!
The interpreter (Anna Donnino) was competent insomuch as she understood English and could translate accurately. The problem, as the ECHR found, was that the interpreter was not an IMPARTIAL interpreter, but acted more as an agent of the police (an interrogator). She went so far as to suggest to Knox that she had traumatic 'amnesia' which is why Knox couldn't remember what 'really happened' when she denied having anything to do with the murder or taking Lumumba there. That was a violation of Knox's right to an impartial interpreter.
This problem is only going to get worse with the amount of “tik-tok investigators” who believe they can solve a case from a single news article.
Amanda is incredible. And so are you Sam. I've thought Amanda great ever since the Netflix doc, even though I never thought she was guilty, but you've really showcased what an intelligent and gracious person she is. I'll be sharing this on all my socials in the hope the *extent* of her innocence can reach ppl who haven't yet realized it.
Thank you. Keep up the great work. I've just signed up for your app :)
I really liked this episode. Good guest and I felt such frustration on behalf of Amanda.
I'm sure she is innocent. The Italian cops are known to screw things up.
Not guilty. Anyone who says otherwise--
doesn't care about evidence
hates semi attractive young women
hates women who are intimate out of wedlock
AND/OR loves getting off on someone's demise.
or.... understand an entire police department thought she did it... and... Sam hasn't had the prosecutor on to tell that side of the story...
@@bikebudha01
See list above. Did you listen to this podcast or watch the doc? Why should anyone debate with anyone who doesn't do the work. Your bias is boring and horrific.
@@bikebudha01 the prosecutor was himself convicted later of abuse of power, and this wasn't even the first case in which he had hallucinated sex orgies and complex conspiracies to embellish and overcopmplicate what was essentially a simple murder case with a single perpetrator.
You are wrong. Anyone who disagrees with this comment is
Very stupid
Ugly
Smells bad
And/or engages in false dichotomies.
Haters and self-important big mouths who think they're oh-so contrarian and original if they join in with the italian catholic countryside state attorney, who also happens to believe in various catholic/right wing conspiracy theories. Ridiculous.
Nice to know that the Italian police have all the investigative skills of Inspector Clouseau chasing down Jack the Ripper in the 1800s. What's the compensation for wrongful imprisonment in Italy? Cappuccino machine?
Apparently there is no compensation. Who knows how many other people have been railroaded in the Italian system. And that prosecutor? Not the first time his highly tuned intuition wrongly accused an innocent party.
"Team Amanda", such a beautiful moment
When Amanda Knox. I answer.
Her series on the Waking Up app is outstanding
Agreed! The waking up app in general is the best thing I've stumbled across in life
Its absolutely excellent
The number one lesson to take away from this is: follow the script at all times:
1. Why did you pull me over?
2. I am not discussing my day.
3. Am I being detained or am I free to go?
4. I invoke the fifth.
5. STFU
Never talk to the police.
She brings up one of the reasons I left religion: Way too many people only see what they already believe, and then don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. And the human mind can justify anything. F'ing pathetic.
When someone gives you a document to sign making an admission, and right there on the desk is another document proving that to be a falsehood...
I know what that feels like. If you are the kind of person who can do that, we will not get along well. Because you deserve to be punished.
yes , it’s such an eye opening broadcast ! The italian justice system has a bad reputation all over the EU- of course in a country with that much corruption it’s logical that it’s justice system is also corrupt.
I remember the story ... but not following it closely.
I just watched the documentary ... Makes me really mad. That prosecutor and his fantasies ... and the damage he has done. He should be the one locked up for 26 years.
Thank God for True Crime shows... Always ask for a lawyer.
Tbf at the time I thought she was guilty, the power of the media..
how did the killer only get 13 years should have life in prison
Because he opted for a fast track trial which automatically reduces a sentence by 1/3rd. He originally was sentenced to 30 years, it was reduced to 24 on appeal and then 1/3 of 24 was deducted. One third of 24 is 8 so it was reduced to 16 years. He got out early for 'good behavior'.
It is insane that the murderer is done with his sentence at ave 36 and is out there assaulting others.
I have not followed this story. What possible motive? No forensics on the evidence? Where is the weapon? Mostly, motive and evidence?
I just.... how did her family not get her a lawyer from that first phone call to them...
I know. Every other resident of that house, the four boys downstairs and the two Italian girls upstairs, lawyered up immediately. Amanda's mother, as stated in this interview, urged Amanda to get on a plane home to Seattle or board a train to Germany, where her German maternal relatives lived. But Amanda wanted to "help" the police in their inquiries, and so they were free to railroad her.
@@MrsRichardDalloway That whole dynamic doesn't make sense to me. I would have gotten my kid a lawyer immediately and been on the next plane.
Because there was no reason for them to think she needed a lawyer as she was not identified as a suspect, only as a witness. Her mother, Edda, arranged for a flight to Italy ASAP and was on a plane to Rome when Knox was arrested.
@mytrip6991 Ok, now this is getting silly. There is always a reason to have representation when dealing with police, but especially when your roommate was just murdered, you do not speak or read the language, nor know the laws or legal system, and because cops lie. The naivete on the part of her and her family as to the risks is shocking.
@@br4588 Hindsight is always 20-20 and it's easy to make judgements from the position of knowing what happened.
I laughed when she said “there’s an Italian rapper who gets rappity, you know, like ‘Fuck the police!’”
Spare a thought for poor Meredith
What is this comment suppose to convey?
I've spared many for Meredith (who is at peace) and her family (who have been lied to).
Doesn't stop me from caring about the justice system, Amanda's personal case, and what we all need to understand about human fallibility.
When the police, even different police, ask you the same question repeatedly…You are the suspect.
Did I have the free will to realize "We don't cause what causes what happens to us" ? The causal universe is just running - enjoy the random-yet-causal ride.
Thanks Sam & Amanda
Whoa. Thank you, Amanda.