I find that lifting relatively heavy with lower repetitions, 1-6 reps and leaving a rep or two in the tank (and importantly 3-4 minutes between sets) doesn't interfere with running that much. The soreness mostly comes from higher reps and/or lack of rest between sets. The higher reps 8-20 is going to make you sore and much more likely to result in muscle bulk gain. I find the deadlift transfers to running better than the squat and leaves you much less sore.
I’ve put in a lot of hours on this for my own training and have found the following “rules”: - weights always before cardio - separate strength and cardio training by a minimum of six hours - high intensity cardio & volume based strength work at the start of the week - low intensity/long runs & high intensity/heavy low rep weights towards the end of the week - emphasis on protein on strength days, carbs on running days or both for both - stay hydrated - make sure you eat enough of the right foods - prioritise recovery and rest periods - Maintain good sleep hygiene - if sore, a lighter session is better than nothing Don’t know if this applies to all, but it’s helped me heaps
I like this list but I think "weights before cardio" vs after really depends on your goals. I use strength training to serve running, so it doesn't make sense to me to lift before a run. I'd rather do a hard interval session, lift a few hours later, then take the next day super easy. That's just me.
Great video, I noticed when I started training my arms and back more it helped me get a stronger arm swing in conjunction with my leg stride and my back stopped feeling stiff after a run as well.
A trap I've heard from many runners is believing that light weight, high rep work is better for them. If running is your primary sport, you develop endurance and sport-specific strength through running, therefore the deficit is in overall strength (stability and connective tissue resilience) and force production (ability to push off the ground harder). Runners should really focus on heavier weight, low rep training while managing overall volume, frequency, and periodization to avoid overtraining. Also, lifting heavier weights will not inherently cause you to "bulk up" unless you are on a training program and diet that is trying to accomplish that. Another trap I've seen is focusing on isolation and single-leg exercises rather than compound lifts. From the perspective of building strength, compound exercises are much more efficient, which also translates to less time in the gym for runners. I do not have anything against isolation exercises, but IMO they should be considered a form of physical therapy rather than strength training. Before embarking on a complex routine of single-leg exercises, you need to be really, really sure that those exercises are going to have the desired effect and not lead to (new) imbalances or are just a waste of time.
Look at Christian taylor Gold medalist triple jumper. He looks skinny enough to be a 5k guy but he lifts super heavy. His diet allows for strength gains but not extreme weight gain
Well honestly that type of training should only be incorporated when running at a high caliber level, if you’re running a 18 min 5k focus more on fitness, muscle strength shouldn’t cross your mind
I tend to look at running and lifting this way: lifting needs to be done in a way that it offers something that running does not. So in other words, I want to lift extremely heavy, for a very few number of reps. 6 sets of 2 tends to be my go to, because if you look at the hypertrophy curve, it grants the greatest increase in strength for a minimal increase in muscular hypertrophy (muscle mass gain) and I'll keep roughly one rep in the tank as another commenter said. We used to do this in powerlifting all the time because it gave us an opportunity to max out our neuromuscular system and recruit the highest possible number of motor units without gaining mass and going up a weight class. Other things could be learned from us powerlifter guys though too, like the inclusion of bands or chains to vastly increase your strength and explosiveness in the quite small range of motion running requires. If you can band squat the equivalent on lockout of 400+lb, you're probably going to be extremely fast from the 100m up until the ultras, all other things being equal.
This is one of my favourites: "Two or three times a week of doing some pretty short sessions uh gym sessions is gonna have a lot off bang for your bucks so to speak. Can give you a lot of benefits without to much extra stress... hopefully"
I do a hundred push ups while stretching after my morning runs. It keeps me strong without having to hit the weights hard. I can’t say it necessarily helps my running but I can pick up and move heavy stuff for a skinny runner!
Starting strength is great for just getting strong, just don't tell any of the starting strength people you do running, as they will probably try and talk you out of it!
@@eleanorcollides Haha, right? I mean in their defense, they go hard on their dedication to NLP, which makes sense when you consider that their point is that building strength should be the priority for overall fitness. I just hope that any runners coming across Starting Strength will not write them off for their anti-running comments because these points make a lot of sense when you understand where Starting Strength is coming from. If you take the time to really listen and digest the entire message, you'll understand why they push that narrative and see how you can apply/adapt the methodology to your situation.
As someone who runs 5 days/week and lifts in the gym 6 days/week, I have to agree with how incredibly nuanced this topic is. Sage, you covered it wonderfully. Before we can go in to the gym and start moving weight around we have to establish our goals and be prepared to sacrifice some aesthetics or perhaps even strength. As a fellow Vegan(3.5yrs), one of my goals is to prove that we can look good, feel good and perform at a high level with both strength and speed. That being said, compound movements should not be ignored; the trick is adjusting them to suit the goal and training response. Don't be afraid to experiment; be prepared to be humbled.
@Purzenify I agree with a lot of what you said and would say that I'm currently 50/50 as well. I train to be ready So i don't have to get ready(so to speak). I practice fitness for health and enjoyment of life. When I'm motivated to race, I put more emphasis on that specific training, vice versa, when I'm motivated to hit a lifting PR, that becomes my focus. The most important aspect to me is fulfilment. I don't let people's expectation of what I should be define who I am and certainly don't want to be an Eliud kipchoge or a larry wheels. I'm looking for MY best version.
Great topic and answer,. I agree all the research has shown that without doubt heavy strength training benefits performance as a direct contributer. Even without the benfits of injury prevention ect doing 2-3x heavy strength per week will give you big gains in endurance running
I've just got back to strength training in the gym after lockdown. I'm not running as much as I was (6 days a week down to 2-3 days a week) but I do hope to work up to running more as I get used to or get less of DOMs. It was hilarious how painful my legs were after my first legs strength workout. I'm staying light but it still hurt for 3-4 days after. After 3 weeks of gym training I'm already not feeling so sore but I can see myself bulking up, which I don't want to do - my thighs are rubbing at the top during running! On the plus side it has helped with my lower back issues (sacroiliac joint issues, plus possible piriformis syndrome). I go to gym in the morning fasted before work, run in the evenings before eating. I hate evening running (I get stomach cramps) but can't really run before the gym. It leaves me too empty.
@@DMGC529 in last 3 weeks I run same 7.65km tempo run in woods. In first 2 weeks, day before it, I did gym session. And in last week I took day off. I felt worst in last week....
@@ebayer1980 thats a great personal anecdote, and I'm glad that works for you, but I train runners for a living and majority of them feel like shit when they've done gym/strength the day before a session. Most pro runners do their gym the same day as their session, theres a reason for it.
What are your thoughts on having two quality runs in a day (e.g. Tempo in AM, and Repetitions in PM). Also assuming that you have built up to this point, and have the mileage to support it.
Running already covers the endurance. With weights use heavier weights, but not very heavy (eg you don’t need to max out). I use weights in the 5-15 rep range.
Jonathan, I read some study that argued that light weights with high reps TO FAILURE are equal to heavy weights and low reps done close to failure. Don't know where I read that, but you might check into that. I was trying to make sense of Ryan Hall's claim that he uses low weights/ high reps.
I’ve been running regularly for about a year and got to run my first half marathon in Austin last month. My max mileage was 60-65 miles a week. I had a couple of Naggles with IT band in November and in April as I approached the taper. How long do you recommend hovering at a particular weekly mileage from a macro level- meaning, this year for a half or full marathon block my training peak mileage is 60 miles. Would it be safe to go with a more aggressive plan the following year (maybe up to 70 inside a training plan?) . I am currently starting a 15 week base building block full of strength work and pre/post run routines before starting one of your plans August 15 for a December marathon in San Antonio. (Want to try and stay healthy all the way through
@@AncoraImparoPiper I have the Metaracer too, but wondering if it's better to keep them for race day and perhaps use say the brooks hyperion tempo instead
@@liamoak3390 I can't speak for the Brooks since I don't have them. I still use the Metaracers for speed workouts since I have far more speed workouts than race days. Plus, I love the Metaracers for those fast running sessions. Shoes are there to wear for the sheer joy they bring.
Concurrent training is very possible, but it needs to be done in an intelligent way. Doing both is known as concurrent training (google it), many studies out there explain how to accomplish this. Summarized, do the more important thing first (ie if you’re a runner, run first), next is to seperate the workouts by at least 8 hours, or however long it takes to recover.
I personally do both running and strength training and the way that I have decided to balance the two is by not doing any specific leg strength training. I still do exercises that involve the legs such as deadlifts, but I don't really squat seriously. If I do, I make sure to keep the overall intensity rather low. This has affected my leg strength, but I think it's worth it because I can go very hard with both running and lifting given that each one is working different muscles and there is little overlap. The way I like to put it is that my lower body is for running while my upper body is for lifting.
What's a junk mile? Do they have a spot in my weekly running mileage. How do you define "Running Economy"? Can it be quantified? How do you monitor progression of Running Economy?
Hi Sage! been using HOKA's Carbon X as sort of a daily trainer , i know im not suppose to.. but the lockdown is so perfect for me Is there any risk (leg health wise) in using a Carbon plated shoes on a daily basis? THX!
Hi Sage, leading on from your video, what weight ranges make good runners, in terms of distances, weight to speed ratio... Etc? I'm talking about guys in ranges say 65-70, kg 70-80kg,... Upwards. I run and do heavy lifting, my 10k speed is I feel is too slow, and I've only got up to 2 half marathon obstical races (UK Ratrace.com) but have plans to do their 7 day endurance race across Iceland
@Purzenify interested in the science, as a level 3 personal trainer and engineer. I've heard there's a magic number below 80-85kg makes a good runner! I'm 6'2" 96kg more suited to rugby than long distance running, hence doing OCR, squat only about 170kg so leg strength not brilliant. Speed is around 5.45min/km slow! So interested in numbers. Yes if I cut to below 90kg I might go a little faster but not sure I'll go much faster
I use to lift a lot but I was too muscular and it limited my mobility and I had a lot of hip problems. Although I was balanced with running, it is counter productive. With that said, the KEY to strength training should address your weakness/pain and mobility. I was too tight from heavy lifting and lacked mobility. Now I do mostly hip exercise and lift weights with high reps. Surprisingly, I'm still ripped after 2 years of light training and you will not lose that 'muscular look' besides weight drop. Hope that helps
I find that lifting relatively heavy with lower repetitions, 1-6 reps and leaving a rep or two in the tank (and importantly 3-4 minutes between sets) doesn't interfere with running that much. The soreness mostly comes from higher reps and/or lack of rest between sets. The higher reps 8-20 is going to make you sore and much more likely to result in muscle bulk gain. I find the deadlift transfers to running better than the squat and leaves you much less sore.
I have found this too. The lower reps seems to challenge different muscle fibers and energy systems than running
@Purzenify 5/6rm roughly but normally stop at 4 reps, slightly slower strength gains but hardly ever sore or heavy legged.
I’ve put in a lot of hours on this for my own training and have found the following “rules”:
- weights always before cardio
- separate strength and cardio training by a minimum of six hours
- high intensity cardio & volume based strength work at the start of the week
- low intensity/long runs & high intensity/heavy low rep weights towards the end of the week
- emphasis on protein on strength days, carbs on running days or both for both
- stay hydrated
- make sure you eat enough of the right foods
- prioritise recovery and rest periods
- Maintain good sleep hygiene
- if sore, a lighter session is better than nothing
Don’t know if this applies to all, but it’s helped me heaps
I like this list but I think "weights before cardio" vs after really depends on your goals. I use strength training to serve running, so it doesn't make sense to me to lift before a run. I'd rather do a hard interval session, lift a few hours later, then take the next day super easy. That's just me.
This is the way
Great video, I noticed when I started training my arms and back more it helped me get a stronger arm swing in conjunction with my leg stride and my back stopped feeling stiff after a run as well.
I had exactly the same experience. But now it's time to get those legs stronger too.
A trap I've heard from many runners is believing that light weight, high rep work is better for them. If running is your primary sport, you develop endurance and sport-specific strength through running, therefore the deficit is in overall strength (stability and connective tissue resilience) and force production (ability to push off the ground harder). Runners should really focus on heavier weight, low rep training while managing overall volume, frequency, and periodization to avoid overtraining. Also, lifting heavier weights will not inherently cause you to "bulk up" unless you are on a training program and diet that is trying to accomplish that.
Another trap I've seen is focusing on isolation and single-leg exercises rather than compound lifts. From the perspective of building strength, compound exercises are much more efficient, which also translates to less time in the gym for runners. I do not have anything against isolation exercises, but IMO they should be considered a form of physical therapy rather than strength training. Before embarking on a complex routine of single-leg exercises, you need to be really, really sure that those exercises are going to have the desired effect and not lead to (new) imbalances or are just a waste of time.
YES on both points!
FINALLY someone gets it
Look at Christian taylor Gold medalist triple jumper. He looks skinny enough to be a 5k guy but he lifts super heavy. His diet allows for strength gains but not extreme weight gain
MY MAN this is what the people need. When it comes to strength work, this is it.
Well honestly that type of training should only be incorporated when running at a high caliber level, if you’re running a 18 min 5k focus more on fitness, muscle strength shouldn’t cross your mind
I tend to look at running and lifting this way: lifting needs to be done in a way that it offers something that running does not. So in other words, I want to lift extremely heavy, for a very few number of reps. 6 sets of 2 tends to be my go to, because if you look at the hypertrophy curve, it grants the greatest increase in strength for a minimal increase in muscular hypertrophy (muscle mass gain) and I'll keep roughly one rep in the tank as another commenter said. We used to do this in powerlifting all the time because it gave us an opportunity to max out our neuromuscular system and recruit the highest possible number of motor units without gaining mass and going up a weight class. Other things could be learned from us powerlifter guys though too, like the inclusion of bands or chains to vastly increase your strength and explosiveness in the quite small range of motion running requires. If you can band squat the equivalent on lockout of 400+lb, you're probably going to be extremely fast from the 100m up until the ultras, all other things being equal.
Steeper hills and plyos for functional running strength and power.
“Great for looking at yourself naked”..😂 A Sage Gem .. great stuff on weight lifting segment.. thank you!
This is one of my favourites: "Two or three times a week of doing some pretty short sessions uh gym sessions is gonna have a lot off bang for your bucks so to speak. Can give you a lot of benefits without to much extra stress... hopefully"
🤣 don't misquote me now! I actually said: "It's great for looking good naked." You added the "yourself" part!
@@Vo2maxProductions ha! My mistake.. it’s still a Sage Gem ..
I do a hundred push ups while stretching after my morning runs. It keeps me strong without having to hit the weights hard. I can’t say it necessarily helps my running but I can pick up and move heavy stuff for a skinny runner!
I can highly recommend the starting strength app for those getting into basic lifting. Strength building, not so much getting big
Also the Starting Strength videos teaching the main lifts on RUclips and/or in the book are some of the best instructional content out there.
Starting strength is great for just getting strong, just don't tell any of the starting strength people you do running, as they will probably try and talk you out of it!
@@eleanorcollides Haha, right? I mean in their defense, they go hard on their dedication to NLP, which makes sense when you consider that their point is that building strength should be the priority for overall fitness.
I just hope that any runners coming across Starting Strength will not write them off for their anti-running comments because these points make a lot of sense when you understand where Starting Strength is coming from. If you take the time to really listen and digest the entire message, you'll understand why they push that narrative and see how you can apply/adapt the methodology to your situation.
Yeah - I don't know the app but got a lot of value from the book
It’s not easy to get big, especially for a runner
As someone who runs 5 days/week and lifts in the gym 6 days/week, I have to agree with how incredibly nuanced this topic is. Sage, you covered it wonderfully. Before we can go in to the gym and start moving weight around we have to establish our goals and be prepared to sacrifice some aesthetics or perhaps even strength. As a fellow Vegan(3.5yrs), one of my goals is to prove that we can look good, feel good and perform at a high level with both strength and speed. That being said, compound movements should not be ignored; the trick is adjusting them to suit the goal and training response. Don't be afraid to experiment; be prepared to be humbled.
@Purzenify I agree with a lot of what you said and would say that I'm currently 50/50 as well. I train to be ready So i don't have to get ready(so to speak). I practice fitness for health and enjoyment of life. When I'm motivated to race, I put more emphasis on that specific training, vice versa, when I'm motivated to hit a lifting PR, that becomes my focus. The most important aspect to me is fulfilment. I don't let people's expectation of what I should be define who I am and certainly don't want to be an Eliud kipchoge or a larry wheels. I'm looking for MY best version.
Great topic and answer,. I agree all the research has shown that without doubt heavy strength training benefits performance as a direct contributer. Even without the benfits of injury prevention ect doing 2-3x heavy strength per week will give you big gains in endurance running
@Purzenify wrong. what you do for a couple of weeks in "off season" is lost very quick. read the science first. 2x per week year round is great
@Purzenify sounds good. have nice day too!
My wife and I own our own strength specific training studio and happy to say this was well described Sir 👍🤜❣️🤛👍
I've just got back to strength training in the gym after lockdown. I'm not running as much as I was (6 days a week down to 2-3 days a week) but I do hope to work up to running more as I get used to or get less of DOMs. It was hilarious how painful my legs were after my first legs strength workout. I'm staying light but it still hurt for 3-4 days after. After 3 weeks of gym training I'm already not feeling so sore but I can see myself bulking up, which I don't want to do - my thighs are rubbing at the top during running! On the plus side it has helped with my lower back issues (sacroiliac joint issues, plus possible piriformis syndrome). I go to gym in the morning fasted before work, run in the evenings before eating. I hate evening running (I get stomach cramps) but can't really run before the gym. It leaves me too empty.
Funny, I’m pretty much in the exact same boat
I lift and do many exercises before speed days. once You are experienced with lifting, it doesn't make Your muscles that sore.
Same. I noticed this too. I am sometimes only able to lift before running because of my schedule, and it doesn’t completely ruin my running workout.
you might not be sore but it will still fatigue your nervous system.
@@DMGC529 in last 3 weeks I run same 7.65km tempo run in woods. In first 2 weeks, day before it, I did gym session. And in last week I took day off.
I felt worst in last week....
@@ebayer1980 thats a great personal anecdote, and I'm glad that works for you, but I train runners for a living and majority of them feel like shit when they've done gym/strength the day before a session. Most pro runners do their gym the same day as their session, theres a reason for it.
@@DMGC529 I now train after Nick Symmonds traing log and he in Monday goes to gym, next day he runs intervals and then again after day hits the gym.
Great insight. I'm all about combining leg day and quicker runs, same day.
What are your thoughts on having two quality runs in a day (e.g. Tempo in AM, and Repetitions in PM). Also assuming that you have built up to this point, and have the mileage to support it.
Ingebrigtsens do 2 tempo sessions a day
I lift 4 days a week and do my shorter runs on those days a well. I run after I lift. Then I have my "long run" day, usually Sunday.
Good video Sage, did you ever do a whole marathon training block without doing any weight training & still do a good sub 3 hour marathon?thanks Sage
Thanks very much!
You should of collabed with Brian Shaw he lives in boulder, lol. Should we be doing more reps with less weight or more weight with less reps?
Running already covers the endurance. With weights use heavier weights, but not very heavy (eg you don’t need to max out). I use weights in the 5-15 rep range.
Jonathan, I read some study that argued that light weights with high reps TO FAILURE are equal to heavy weights and low reps done close to failure. Don't know where I read that, but you might check into that. I was trying to make sense of Ryan Hall's claim that he uses low weights/ high reps.
Thank you,
Hi Sage, for general fitness, what do you think about running 4-6 times per week and lifting only upper body 2 times per week?
I’ve been running regularly for about a year and got to run my first half marathon in Austin last month. My max mileage was 60-65 miles a week. I had a couple of Naggles with IT band in November and in April as I approached the taper. How long do you recommend hovering at a particular weekly mileage from a macro level- meaning, this year for a half or full marathon block my training peak mileage is 60 miles. Would it be safe to go with a more aggressive plan the following year (maybe up to 70 inside a training plan?) . I am currently starting a 15 week base building block full of strength work and pre/post run routines before starting one of your plans August 15 for a December marathon in San Antonio. (Want to try and stay healthy all the way through
Curls for the girls 😁
pro tip ... never lift in running shoes ... you don't what any give under your feet ... barefoot would probably be best
Yes! Especially if your running shoes are worn out unevenly.
Chuck Taylors are also a great choice... affordable, durable, lightweight
I like wrestling shoes for lifting.
@@alexanaya973 I have a pair. Are they better than bare foot?
What are your thoughts on using carbon plated shoes for speed/tempo workouts?
Those are the times when I put on my carbon plated Asics Metaracers.
@@AncoraImparoPiper I have the Metaracer too, but wondering if it's better to keep them for race day and perhaps use say the brooks hyperion tempo instead
@@liamoak3390 I can't speak for the Brooks since I don't have them. I still use the Metaracers for speed workouts since I have far more speed workouts than race days. Plus, I love the Metaracers for those fast running sessions. Shoes are there to wear for the sheer joy they bring.
Concurrent training is very possible, but it needs to be done in an intelligent way. Doing both is known as concurrent training (google it), many studies out there explain how to accomplish this. Summarized, do the more important thing first (ie if you’re a runner, run first), next is to seperate the workouts by at least 8 hours, or however long it takes to recover.
Sage, any chance at a miler program on your site? Thanks!
I personally do both running and strength training and the way that I have decided to balance the two is by not doing any specific leg strength training. I still do exercises that involve the legs such as deadlifts, but I don't really squat seriously. If I do, I make sure to keep the overall intensity rather low. This has affected my leg strength, but I think it's worth it because I can go very hard with both running and lifting given that each one is working different muscles and there is little overlap.
The way I like to put it is that my lower body is for running while my upper body is for lifting.
What's a junk mile? Do they have a spot in my weekly running mileage. How do you define "Running Economy"? Can it be quantified? How do you monitor progression of Running Economy?
Just say it's Training Talk Thursday and you're early. 😉
the best way to get better at running is to run
I have been dying to know this answer..........
You should do a hair comparison video with Timmy T. :)
My legs always feel quite heavy after a core or strength workout, so this was some great advice. Thanks!
Hi Sage! been using HOKA's Carbon X as sort of a daily trainer , i know im not suppose to.. but the lockdown is so perfect for me
Is there any risk (leg health wise) in using a Carbon plated shoes on a daily basis?
THX!
Hi, my marathon pace is 5:15 / km. My weight is 70kg. Can you recommend the hoka model for the next rome marathon? thank you very much
Hi Sage, leading on from your video, what weight ranges make good runners, in terms of distances, weight to speed ratio... Etc? I'm talking about guys in ranges say 65-70, kg 70-80kg,... Upwards.
I run and do heavy lifting, my 10k speed is I feel is too slow, and I've only got up to 2 half marathon obstical races (UK Ratrace.com) but have plans to do their 7 day endurance race across Iceland
@Purzenify interested in the science, as a level 3 personal trainer and engineer. I've heard there's a magic number below 80-85kg makes a good runner! I'm 6'2" 96kg more suited to rugby than long distance running, hence doing OCR, squat only about 170kg so leg strength not brilliant. Speed is around 5.45min/km slow!
So interested in numbers. Yes if I cut to below 90kg I might go a little faster but not sure I'll go much faster
Which vaccine did you get Sage?
Kettlebell training is the best for overall athleticism.
For most people.
Swings and dips.
I use to lift a lot but I was too muscular and it limited my mobility and I had a lot of hip problems. Although I was balanced with running, it is counter productive. With that said, the KEY to strength training should address your weakness/pain and mobility. I was too tight from heavy lifting and lacked mobility. Now I do mostly hip exercise and lift weights with high reps. Surprisingly, I'm still ripped after 2 years of light training and you will not lose that 'muscular look' besides weight drop. Hope that helps
If anyone wants to get amongst endurance training and strength training, check out Alex viada on Insta