No comments? Wow. Okay. No one is going to read this. But just in case... The Axial Age obviously is little more than a modern intellectual construct. I found this discussion a quite rambling attempt to define the term but never getting there. So, it sounded to me a discussion where no one has decided exactly what it was they were going to talk about. There was talk about being interdisciplinarian but not once did I hear the term, "Late Bronze Age Collapse," which since it was concurrent I doubt simply coincidental and perhaps causal. Prior to this Axial Age, Bronze Age Mans pan-cultural obsession was the stars; and the mathematics involved in this proto astrology was incredibly sophisticated. Although it continues it looses its place as the Queen of Mans approach to metaphysics. Also missing here is a focused discussion of religion (I include Greek or Buddhist philosophy in my broad definition of "religion,) specifically what were the common elements of a change in perspective that gives us reason to suggest there was something like an Axial divide? I see a study of the thoughts of Man as part of a continuum of the evolution of human consciousness that begins with Neolithic art and burial ritual and seems to be leading to a rather bleak eschatology of the Singularity to where human consciousness will be relocated into machines (a completely foolish idea on it's face.) If there was an Axial Age then it would have been a gradually forming cycle within a much larger teleology in Mans conceptualization of his place visa-a-vise the ontological natural world out there. In this much there is a progression (or regression). Without a central focus I found this discussion defuse and aimless. The comments of these men were all interesting and I'm sure erudite, but as a discussion I found it completely disjointed, confused and incoherent. Reminded me a lot of business meetings I'm forced to suffer through these days.
Thomas Geist, sadly you did not know and did not simply find out what the axial age or moral revolution is, before making mistaken claims. You complain, for example, about not hearing the term “late bronze age collapse” and claim it was concurrent. But it was not. It occurred around 1200-1150 BCE, whereas, as mentioned repeatedly in the session, the axial age/moral revolution occurred more than half a millennium later, roughly centered around 600-500 BCE. You also complain that the session lacked a discussion of religion and the common elements shared by Greek or Buddhist philosophy. You missed or forgot the comments concerning the shared increased significance of interiority, self-reflectiveness, elevation of conscience over custom, and religious and political democratization that was common not only to Greek and Buddhist philosophy, but also Chinese philosophy and Judaism. These four cultures are widely accepted as the major sources of the axial age/moral revolution. In the published version of this author meets critics session from the American Philosophical Association Pacific meetings, I also addressed some of the common elements of these religions and philosophies (as I did in my book itself, which was the source for this author meets critics session). To give one brief example: “The rise of the new religions of this era, for example, of Judaism, Buddhism, and later Christianity and Islam, these religions which Stuart-Glennie also characterized as ‘prophetianism,’ seem to be the clearest examples of a moral revolution, namely of that shift from custom to conscience. Stuart-Glennie also addressed transformations of the social dimension. Here the emergence of Athenian democracy marks a shift to the morality of the commonality, of the common life.” Eugene Halton, “The Axial Age, the Moral Revolution, and the Polarization of Life and Spirit.” existenz.us/volumes/Vol.13-2Halton.html You say you see “the thoughts of Man as part of a continuum of the evolution of human consciousness that begins with Neolithic art and burial ritual.” Here you mistakenly substitute Neolithic (commonly taken as beginning 12,000 years ago with beginnings of agriculture) for Paleolithic (which covers everything before and outside of the Neolithic). The evolution of human consciousness did not begin with farming. Human art goes back easily over 100,000 years. Neanderthals also practiced burial rituals. You end your comment complaining: “Reminded me a lot of business meetings I’m forced to suffer through these days.” I hope you put more thought into those business meetings you suffer through than you demonstrated here.
For anyone interested in explorations into this period of human history and the intellectuals probing it, the discussion was very illuminating. I was first introduced to the Jaspers story through Karen Armstrong's writings. I look forward to learning more of the philosophers and scientists called out in this discussion.
No comments? Wow. Okay. No one is going to read this. But just in case...
The Axial Age obviously is little more than a modern intellectual construct. I found this discussion a quite rambling attempt to define the term but never getting there. So, it sounded to me a discussion where no one has decided exactly what it was they were going to talk about. There was talk about being interdisciplinarian but not once did I hear the term, "Late Bronze Age Collapse," which since it was concurrent I doubt simply coincidental and perhaps causal.
Prior to this Axial Age, Bronze Age Mans pan-cultural obsession was the stars; and the mathematics involved in this proto astrology was incredibly sophisticated. Although it continues it looses its place as the Queen of Mans approach to metaphysics.
Also missing here is a focused discussion of religion (I include Greek or Buddhist philosophy in my broad definition of "religion,) specifically what were the common elements of a change in perspective that gives us reason to suggest there was something like an Axial divide? I see a study of the thoughts of Man as part of a continuum of the evolution of human consciousness that begins with Neolithic art and burial ritual and seems to be leading to a rather bleak eschatology of the Singularity to where human consciousness will be relocated into machines (a completely foolish idea on it's face.)
If there was an Axial Age then it would have been a gradually forming cycle within a much larger teleology in Mans conceptualization of his place visa-a-vise the ontological natural world out there. In this much there is a progression (or regression). Without a central focus I found this discussion defuse and aimless. The comments of these men were all interesting and I'm sure erudite, but as a discussion I found it completely disjointed, confused and incoherent.
Reminded me a lot of business meetings I'm forced to suffer through these days.
Thomas Geist, sadly you did not know and did not simply find out what the axial age or moral revolution is, before making mistaken claims. You complain, for example, about not hearing the term “late bronze age collapse” and claim it was concurrent. But it was not. It occurred around 1200-1150 BCE, whereas, as mentioned repeatedly in the session, the axial age/moral revolution occurred more than half a millennium later, roughly centered around 600-500 BCE.
You also complain that the session lacked a discussion of religion and the common elements shared by Greek or Buddhist philosophy. You missed or forgot the comments concerning the shared increased significance of interiority, self-reflectiveness, elevation of conscience over custom, and religious and political democratization that was common not only to Greek and Buddhist philosophy, but also Chinese philosophy and Judaism. These four cultures are widely accepted as the major sources of the axial age/moral revolution.
In the published version of this author meets critics session from the American Philosophical Association Pacific meetings, I also addressed some of the common elements of these religions and philosophies (as I did in my book itself, which was the source for this author meets critics session). To give one brief example:
“The rise of the new religions of this era, for example, of Judaism, Buddhism, and later Christianity and Islam, these religions which Stuart-Glennie also characterized as ‘prophetianism,’ seem to be the clearest examples of a moral revolution, namely of that shift from custom to conscience. Stuart-Glennie also addressed transformations of the social dimension. Here the emergence of Athenian democracy marks a shift to the morality of the commonality, of the common life.”
Eugene Halton, “The Axial Age, the Moral Revolution, and the Polarization of Life and Spirit.”
existenz.us/volumes/Vol.13-2Halton.html
You say you see “the thoughts of Man as part of a continuum of the evolution of human consciousness that begins with Neolithic art and burial ritual.” Here you mistakenly substitute Neolithic (commonly taken as beginning 12,000 years ago with beginnings of agriculture) for Paleolithic (which covers everything before and outside of the Neolithic). The evolution of human consciousness did not begin with farming. Human art goes back easily over 100,000 years. Neanderthals also practiced burial rituals.
You end your comment complaining: “Reminded me a lot of business meetings I’m forced to suffer through these days.” I hope you put more thought into those business meetings you suffer through than you demonstrated here.
For anyone interested in explorations into this period of human history and the intellectuals probing it, the discussion was very illuminating. I was first introduced to the Jaspers story through Karen Armstrong's writings. I look forward to learning more of the philosophers and scientists called out in this discussion.