Regardless of the price and budget, do either of these "pup" tents/shelters offer protection from Thermal imaging? While a warm body is inside of said "pup" tents is the heat signature reduced and does the fabric glow while looking through nvg/thermals? Or is it made in a way to reduce these from glowing/ mitigate the heat signature? Certain fabrics like the free soldier tarp glows like a Christmas tree, when looking through nvg/ thermals, for the naked eye they offer a nice camo pattern, however in a non permissive environment they glow, and are easy to spot from a good distance. Any thermal product should minimize one's heat signature, and the fabric which it's made from should be neutral, or even slightly darker than the surrounding foliage, while using nvg/ thermals. Any idea's?
@@antonwearsakilt5209 They both do well for heat. The jerven has a bit of shine with NV, not terrible, not great. The särmä is probably better suited for NV.
Eventually any cover is going to build up heat via convection, which will result in a noticeable difference in temperature. It's simple physics, there's no avoiding it. An aluminized cover like the Sharma will initially give you absolute cover, but will warm up relatively quickly. Something insulated like the Jergen won't give that initial absolute cover, but it will take a lot longer to come up to temp. Either one will be noticeable within an hour or less. If that wasn't the case you'd be able to get these things to 80 degrees inside with just your body heat.
@@antonwearsakilt5209This is interesting with all the border woth Russia and all. I ponder how Helsport fjelduk pro shows in thermals. It is made in China so in current geopolitical thing I wouldn't buy one, but I already have it.
Thank you for doing this comparison. I know inflation is a thing now so I’m sure these would cost more than what I’ve been running. I’ve had a $20 SOL blanket (thermal cloak?), $20 woobie and $5 military sleeping pad in my truck for years in case I’m caught out for some reason. When I tested them together I was impressed by how well they worked to keep me warm during a 28 degree Fahrenheit night in the wind on my back porch. The only issue I believe someone would have to watch out for with this setup is condensation due to the SOL reflective blanket being non porous. I mitigated that by keeping a small opening to breathe through. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! I did the same for years before getting my jerven. Saved my butt more than a few times. For anyone wanting to experience some of the benefits of a thermal cloak, this is a really great solution.
I slept in my Jerven in that exact setup last night. Drizzling all night with temperatures around freezing. I was using the Carinthia Tropen sleeping bag lol. It was almost okay temperature wise. My problem was more getting enough air. Either you’re warm but can’t get enough oxygen, or you get enough oxygen but also freeze. I ended up sleeping with my head outside the Jerven, which allowed me to close it around my body and get enough fresh air. With the zipper on top the Jerven did get a little wet. I should have laid a poncho over it like I did last time, which is pretty awesome for getting in and out of the Jerven in the rain. Cheers
Try 2 ridgelines, one for the jerven, one for your tarp or poncho. That will give you cover for your gear and a dry space to get in and out of your jerven. The zippers take some getting used to. The arm holes, the top zip directly over head, the head end zipper can all be used to help vent. With the poncho or tarp overhead, venting the top is probably best for releasing condensation from breathe.
@@EnduranceRoom Good idea with the two ridgelines. I'll try that next time. Regarding zippers: I just upgraded all of them with a bit of thin paracord. So nice to find and pull them now, even when they're buried in the corner.
I've had my Jerven extreme for years and I slept on the snow(laying flat) with an Neoair xtherm pad inside, boots off and fully clothed(normal attire for conditions) in -10C. I did wear an extra pair of thick wool socks. I was surprised how well it worked but feet were feeling it in the morning. The Jerven is a great piece of kit.
A test when wearing them is worth doing. My Jerven variants are very good for this, although the armhole placement is not 100 since it is symmetrical in design (hard to explain unless you have tried it)
Thank you for this video. You make a strong case for this type of shelter for below-freezing environments. I would give the nod to the insulated model, provided it was no heavier than the uninsulated-plus-woobie combo.
I have experimented for years with minimal kit, after I got out of the military and as a French and Indian war and Reveloutionary War reenactor. I have safety pinned a Mylar sheet to a woobie the past 10 years or so, to use as a blanket, or with a slit cut in it as a poncho or coat. You can go easily down to 40F with just a sweatshirt and into the 30s and 20s with a coat.. I put a zipper horizontally in the woobie and reinforced the Mylar with clear packaging tape. I’ve also used it as a hammock underquilt. The SOL Mylar sheet is the best as it is quiet, tear resistant, and inexpensive and about 4 oz. I use it Mylar side facing me as a blanket on a foam folding mattress to about 40F, and foil side out down to as low as 26 F. The Mylar stops convection and the woobie stops conduction. I tend to bring more layers of clothing between 30-35F rather than sleeping bag for an overnight. When it’s going to be less than 30 F I also bring a 2 lb duck down bag to add to it down to 20F. Below 20F I bring a Wiggys zero sleeping bag. I liked the experiment. Convection is a problem. I will add my rain gear as temps drop. Nylon jacket under sweatshirt, and mil surp Gortex outside of clothing layers.
Great video! One thing I've always had a hard time with (I'm a cold sleeper), is convection from the ground. Even with a wool blanket down and an air mattress on top, I still get cold cold on whatever part of me is making contact with the ground... inside of my 20 degree back). I keep trying and trying to to acclimate my body to colder temps too.
Hi Jesse! Great comparison, thank you for sharing. I am looking for a thermal cloak for quite a time now, but I could not find something level the jerven fjellduken. But this could be the solution😁! Thanks again 🙏and as always stay safe and all the best from Austria my friend!!!🇦🇹🤠👍🏕🔥
Thanks Brother! Much appreciated. It is well made equipment. I just checked Varusteleka this morning and it looks like they are sold out. Perhaps another option would be 2GoSystems bivvy. It is similar design and function. I have heard good reports on it, but have no experience with one personally. All the best! 🤝
@@EnduranceRoom Thank you for your tip, I have ordered a info mail when they got restocked. I am optimistic that they will be available soon (I hope so😉). In the meantime I will look for your second tip. Thank you my friend and until next time all the best from Austria, Bernd 🇦🇹🤠👍🏕🔥
Thanks for the video and info, Jess. Interesting that there wasn't much difference in warmth with the uninsulated cloak. Wouldn't mind having either one of those. 👍
Awesome video! These are some cool pieces of kit, I have never seen these used in this application. I solely thought they were for hiding from thermal night vision lol. SARMA FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Use Jerven fjällduk and the Jerven hunter fjällduk for wet, windy mountain hunting while sitting on post. Very good product and the mountain camo is spot on for mossy nordic rocky mountain terrain.
The Sarma is a win for me its lighter and cheaper!! This was an AWESOME demo bro glad you did im super happy with my decision wanna hear something ironic 😀 i literary just bought my first woobie thought it would be another multiple use item this one has a perimeter zip to make a sleeping bag and a cloak buckle for wearing i wanna sew a head zip so it pairs wirh the poncho✊️🔥✌️💚
Nice!! Glad you got one brother. Super cool and happy to hear you dig it! The woobie sounds great. Does it still have ties around perimeter? Might be good to add one or two in to secure inside cloak. I added extra ties to mine with paracord. I used the outer shell, removing inner strands. Easy, just a couple stitches. Cheers
@EnduranceRoom yeah it has the tie outs still it's the upgraded military woobie Pinnacle Mercantile a bit expensive but it's genuine top notch quality 👌 cheers brotha!!
I got a Särmä one with 67g/m2 from Varusteleka, been wanting one for a long, long time. Very impressed! It’s not as bad for condensation as I thought it would, actually minimal. I think it has a lot to do with the fact the zip isn’t waterproof at all and there are gaps on the corners, which might be an issue if using as a bivi bag with no tarp, in the rain, but isn’t really a concern for me as I would always have a tarp or poncho anyway. Was hoping to try it in the cold, 0°C weather we’ve had in the UK, but sadly not had chance so still a mystery as to how cold you can go with it. My thinking is, it’s as heavy as a sleeping bag but, I will save on not having to bring thick, warm coat and thermal trousers for in the evening, so save weight that way. With a light weight sleeping bag in the winter, and using this as a bivi or a tent, or as a wind sock on a tarp, it makes it very versatile!😁. At the time, the original Jerven Fjellduken was just too expensive, plus I was a bit unsure as to whether I would need the XL or a smaller one, I like the fact you could get gable ends to make one version into a tent, but even those were nearly half the cost of mine- I was incredibly lucky because I didn’t get stung with import tax for mine- had it delivered to my local, friendly post office.😁🤣.
I regularly use mine as bivvy bags with either a light sleeping bag or woobie. The coldest I have been out in my jerven was -30F (very cold, -34C). I slept in a hammock tent with a zero degree bag, jerven as a bivvy. It would have been better with the the jerven on the outside of the tent making insulated walls. Really interesting and very effective. Maximizing the air space increases the warmth. With a tarp or your poncho strung up as a shelter, (A frame, diamond fly or fly), run a second ridgeline underneath to suspend your cloak. With a good sleeping pad, you probably won’t need a sleeping bag inside for temperatures 0 degrees and up. You will have to experiment and see what works for you comfort wise, but these are really remarkable tools. To release condensation, just open zippers above face. Keep it cracked open, and if needed, you can open and then close the bag during night to freshen the air up and cool things down. Cheers
Hey brother! Great episode! I don't know of someone noticed that earlier BUT from -13°C to +3°C it's +16°C not +10 😅 Just saying. That still makes Särmä a great piece of gear. Best regards! 🌳 🌲 🐗 🌲 🌳
@@EnduranceRoom no worries brother, I know the pain 😅 I was uploading one episode from Romania this year and I had no data connection in those mountains there so it took me about 14 hours in total and all in roaming costs 😅 You're doing a great job bud, so keep on rocking! Best regards from Poland! 🌳 🌲 🐗 🌲 🌳
The quality of the troops on the ground is what made all the difference in this war. British soldiers are the best in the world without a doubt closely followed by Aussies and kiwis..it's not the biggest armies that are victorious but the best! 🏴
2GoSystems XL size reflective Tyvek bivy does the same thing, $95, 1.5 lbs, very compact. it can be worn as a poncho or as clothing too. I pull a ridgeline and a net hammock thru it and have a plastic "envelope' around the bivy. I use another ridgeline, tied to the envelope from the outside. It's important to have the bivy not touch you nor the envelope. You NEED those layers of "trapped air".. Hang the hammock just 5" off of the ground and kick debris under the hammock, so as to stop air from flowing under you. If you have small amounts of debris, you can stuff it between the layers of your clothing. If you have a LOT of dry debris, you can stuff it between the bivy and the envelope. Each method gains you about 10F degress of warmth. This can rid you of the need for heavy, bulky, expensive winter clothing. I carry a couple of Amazon full body bugnet suits. 1/4 lb each. I also carry a couple of 1/2 lb each Amazon "cut leaf" camo nets. I can twist the camo nets so that the "leaves" can't "lay-flat' and wrap them around my limbs, between the bugnet suits, all worn as long johns and gain 10F degrees. Naturally the bugnet suits protect me from bugs and the camo nets, in warmer weather, hide me from animals and humans. I can stuff the bugnet suits with dry debris, and put dry debris under the wraps of camo net (this time outside of my BDUS, and gain yet another 10F degrees. I use Wiggy's net longjohns at all times when it's cold. I can gain another 10F degrees by adding 1 lb of normal, polypropylene longjohns, and as much more by using a discrete Dakota fire pit to heat up some rocks or water and put those items inside the foot box of the reflective tyvek bivy. Do NOT get the regular size bivy, cause it's too small for anyone but little Asian men. Cut the rain flaps off of the bivy's zipper, or they WILL jam with you inside of the bivy! the two taped together drum liners form the "envelope" around the bivy. They can be used for other things, by taking a small, soft plastic bottle of adhesive-release and another of rubbing alcohol. This lets you remove tape from the plastic and mylar without damaging those materials. I carry a third drum liner for a variety of other things, but often use it to carry debris. Fold over the bottom corners of the bivy and the envelope and tape them into a mummy configuration. This saves some heat otherwise lost from your legs. Because the bivy is not affected by its getting-wet, it's far more versatile than any sleeping bag I use a buttpack and a daypack. I can empty them out, stuff them with debris and use them as sleeping pads (normally up in the net hammock) I had to add a much wider, stiffer belt to the buttpack. The sleep/shelter gear and any unused clothing gets folded and rolled up then I lash it to the top of the buttpack. The daypack rides on this gear. This forces the gear to serves as a pack frame. The pads of the shoulder harness are my spare socks and the hip pads are my spare boxer shorts and t shirt. I hate every oz an cubic inch of stuff that I have to lug around.
brisk movement is worth almost 20F degrees, so being able to wear this stuff as clothing or as a poncho lets you leave a lot of clothing at home, or at the store. :-). I spray painted the plastic "envelope' in a camo pattern and added a sleeping bag zipper to it. Without that you play hell getting into my setup in a hammock. The outside ridgeline has 4 loops attached to the envelope with slip knots and plastic beads. The beads are inside of the plastic envelope and the slipknots "strangle" the beads from the outside. Then the little loops of paracord are looped around the ridgeline in Prusik knots, which allow me to slide the tie- offs up and down the ridgeline as-needed. iN an emergency, you can just tear your way out of the bivy and repair it with duct tape. There's no stuffings to lose or to get wet.
Man, this makes me happy to hear. Great work. I did a lot of DIY getting started on here. Some of my favorite gear has been the homemade stuff. Well done 👍👍
@@EnduranceRoom thanks. Where I 've lived for the past 15 years, it almost never gets below 20F and then only at night and for at most a few nights of the year. For some reason, parts of Texas are colder than where I am in Ok, and they are WAY south of me? Must be something to do with the Gulf wind.? I got a sleeping bag wet one time and damned near died because of it, Got pneumonia. That was 30 years ago and I"m 71. Cant ris that any more. I reserve sleeping bags for when I"m sleeping in the van. People say 'just dont get it wet'. I know that I"m talking to an amateur who's never been out there when it was pouring down, blowing and they had to move, as vs just sit it out in a tent.
It takes some getting used to. The insulation absorbs moisture well, while also retaining heat. Using the the zippers near the head is the key to regulating temp and mitigating condensation buildup.
I heard that without the insulation layer there's going to be too much condensation, so it might not be suitable as a sleeping bag cover. the insulation seems to eliminate the condensation issue. is this true?
It has been a weird couple months up here as well, below zero, then 45 degrees, then back down. Freeze, thaw, repeat. We went from almost bare ground, to snow up to my knees with rain on the way, all inside two weeks. Have a good one brother.
I’m thinking, maybe the insulation will have more of an impact when the cloak is used more as a close fitting bivi, rather than when it is away from the body, it will have chance to trap your body heat and hold it in close proximity to your body.🤔 I’m thinking, maybe the insulation will have more of an impact when the cloak is used more as a close fitting bivi, rather than when it is away from the body, it will have chance to trap your body heat and hold it in close proximity to your body.🤔 Interesting video, most of the ones I have found on RUclips have been the uninsulated versions, so it’s interesting to have a comparison! I’m very tempted to get another Särmä cloak, the uninsulated one to use as just a tarp. I’m still hankering after a Fjellduken Jerven in the 100g/m2 insulation as well, but in two minds as to whether it’s worth the investment.
The test was a bit flawed... I really should have waited till the thermometer reset fully before testing the Särmä cloak. All of the tests should have been under same circumstances (outside temp, inside duration). Also, I think a little longer inside the bags to let them warm up and move the mercury would have good. For you, I think either option would be quite useful, uninsulated and the 100gram. Maybe the Exclusive would be the way to go? Being able to zip in different liners as well as have the option to run the outer shell independently would give you what you are looking for in one package. It’s a bit more of an investment, but the options it has are pretty significant. Cheers
I carry 10 lbs less pack, shelter/sleep gear/clothing than others for the same conditions and that lets me carry more food, water, ammo, etc. or I save a lot of un-needed fatigue. Fatigue causes illness, injury and oversight of important issues, like enemies.
I think my non-insulated Särmä was worth it. still not cheap, though. the Järven should have gone down in price after 2 decades. it went up instead... made the decision very easy ;-) my insulation is the snugpak jungle bag. now I can't only use it in the summer, a win-win.
the jackets and sleeping bags are good, I have the jungle bag for the summer, it's like a woobie turned into a sleeping bag (can still be used as blanket) with a headnet. And a Softie Hawk 9, 3 season bag. In combination they are like the MMSS.@@EnduranceRoom
Hello my name is Federico. I have been following you for quite some time. I recently purchased a Russian plasch palatka. I need you to take away one curiosity. At one end there are two stitched webbing of cloth. Handle type. What are they for! ??? Thank you for your videos!
Hey! Thank you. I believe those loops were designed for use with a set of leather suspenders. When the cloak was folded and rolled, a strap was passed through to help secure poncho. From what I read, it sounded like this was largely ignored by most.
Very interesting and informative post. If you ever do something similar in the future can I humbly suggest that you try to omit the word "COOL" from your vocabulary, to avoid confusion . I say this as you were discussing temperature and , additionally, some of the viewers might not have English as their first language and could be a bit confused by your use of the word. Happy Trails.
Haha... You change your vocabulary??? On the other hand, they could change THEIR vocabulary..... (Learn a new word--look up a word they dont fully understand) Here you are giving free information to the ENTIRE world, and someone makes this request?? Wow. Please listen, this person had some kind of mental problem, whatever you do in your video, they will have some snide comment....
@@eriklittlebigg7440 Grow up and stop nitpicking at what was a genuine point. If you can't see why I made the comment you obviously didn't watch the entire video. My criticism is constructive in nature ; unlike yours, which comes over as being borderline abusive and displays a lack of knowledge of "the big picture".
@@clivedunning4317 I can't see the, "big picture," you claim?? Also, you say that I'm, "nitpicking." Look at your original comment.. That defines nitpicking. Correct me if I'm wrong.... For the good of humanity, you're going to police all content creators because someone may not understand the words he or she chooses to use..... The fact you see this as an issue speaks volumes!! If he didn't use the metric system in the video, I have a feeling you would have made a suggestion based on that!! Lol. Tell me clove, do you type out , "constructive criticism," for every video you watch? If you do, that is some serious responsibility... (You giving humanity the helping hand we vitally need!!) I really don't think the viewers and content creators would get along without you Mr Clove. If a viewer comes across a word or phrase they don't know/understand, its up to THEM to learn it, Google it, check the dictionary etc... Its simply not the creator's concern whether or not someone can understand his content.... We all know how to use Google by now, i hope. Otherwise, where does it end?? Are people like you gonna try passing laws mandating certain speech that you find acceptable?? Will i be required to explain jokes or humor to an Asian culture, like the Japanese, (Who are notoriously serious people) because they don't understand western humor?? It is the individuals responsibly, If they choose to consume the media, they gotta figure it out... The world doesn't need another, "daddy," to hold their hand and see to it that a content creator, makes allowances for the POSSIBILITY that they might not understand something.... Your suggestions seem to come from a very WOKE place, Mr Clove. Tell me truthfully Mr Clove, are you a WOKE KAREN?? In reality, the world needs people the take responsibility for themselves, not people who worry about this guys videos, and if someone somewhere ends up confused someday...
@@Tscharlieh Because these are the two that I own. I mainly did this video as a demonstration of the effectiveness of these cloaks. Both are very good.
👍👍👍 Hi Jess .. Once again, you do not disappoint 😊. A bit of a delay in my response 😏 .. I've been laid low this last week by a particularly nasty bacterial lung / chest infection that appears to be making the rounds. My partner, she ended up in hospital for a full week and me at home being nursed by the little Malti-Poo 💕. Fortunately the Antibiotics did their job. It went better for me than her .. I've tried to stay fit and active and have never smoked 😏. On the up now and lucid once again .. should be active again in a week or so 😊. Ok, so much for my moans and groans .. 🙄😊. A good comparison of the two systems and judging by your results and under the conditions that you tested them, not that much to choose between. As demonstrated by you, and supported by reader's comments, one should understand that 'reflective surfaces' are only effective against radiated heat. Contact .. and conduction then nullifies it's effectiveness. Now, to my point .. Having the reflective layer as close to the skin as possible, without actually touching it, should make for the most efficient use of the reflective insulative properties. I wonder how effective a coarse 'string / net' type garment, worn up against the body (or up against the reflective layer) and thus avoiding direct contact with the insulation, would be in further enhancing the garments insulating properties. Just mulling .. idle thought .. whilst 'laid up' 😁. Take care my friend and I'm looking forward to your next .. Tommy
Hey Tommy! Sorry for the late reply. Notifications have been hit and miss. Hope you and your partner are feeling better! There has been a lot of folks reporting similar issues. Wishing you both the very best! Great points on the spacing for thermal reflection. Definitely something to be aware of. 👍👍
Everyone from the Alaskan Oil workers and Eskimos to the Marine Force recon and NSW people (Naval Special Warfare) ALL USE WIGGY'S from Grand Junction Colorado....don't waste your time and money on junk...
Thanks for your comment. Do you realize how cold it is in Finland or in Norway? (We send our guys to Norway for cold weather training.) These cloaks are actually far more versatile than a sleeping bag and are regularly used in the arctic.
Looking for a Jerven? www.betterbushcraft.com
Särmä TST thermal cloak
www.varusteleka.com
Regardless of the price and budget, do either of these "pup" tents/shelters offer protection from Thermal imaging? While a warm body is inside of said "pup" tents is the heat signature reduced and does the fabric glow while looking through nvg/thermals? Or is it made in a way to reduce these from glowing/ mitigate the heat signature?
Certain fabrics like the free soldier tarp glows like a Christmas tree, when looking through nvg/ thermals, for the naked eye they offer a nice camo pattern, however in a non permissive environment they glow, and are easy to spot from a good distance.
Any thermal product should minimize one's heat signature, and the fabric which it's made from should be neutral, or even slightly darker than the surrounding foliage, while using nvg/ thermals.
Any idea's?
@@antonwearsakilt5209 They both do well for heat. The jerven has a bit of shine with NV, not terrible, not great. The särmä is probably better suited for NV.
Eventually any cover is going to build up heat via convection, which will result in a noticeable difference in temperature. It's simple physics, there's no avoiding it.
An aluminized cover like the Sharma will initially give you absolute cover, but will warm up relatively quickly. Something insulated like the Jergen won't give that initial absolute cover, but it will take a lot longer to come up to temp.
Either one will be noticeable within an hour or less. If that wasn't the case you'd be able to get these things to 80 degrees inside with just your body heat.
can you store rice crispy treats in the Jerven Fjelduken Hunter?
@@antonwearsakilt5209This is interesting with all the border woth Russia and all. I ponder how Helsport fjelduk pro shows in thermals. It is made in China so in current geopolitical thing I wouldn't buy one, but I already have it.
Thank you for doing this comparison. I know inflation is a thing now so I’m sure these would cost more than what I’ve been running. I’ve had a $20 SOL blanket (thermal cloak?), $20 woobie and $5 military sleeping pad in my truck for years in case I’m caught out for some reason. When I tested them together I was impressed by how well they worked to keep me warm during a 28 degree Fahrenheit night in the wind on my back porch. The only issue I believe someone would have to watch out for with this setup is condensation due to the SOL reflective blanket being non porous. I mitigated that by keeping a small opening to breathe through. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! I did the same for years before getting my jerven. Saved my butt more than a few times. For anyone wanting to experience some of the benefits of a thermal cloak, this is a really great solution.
Thank you for using celsius!
I have the insulated Särma, and it is worth its weight in gold!
Does it have arm holes?
No it doesn't have arm hiles, but they have a good way to fold it so you can still use your arms, when using it as a cloak.
Excellent test, good fun too. Love the snow coming down at the end.
I slept in my Jerven in that exact setup last night. Drizzling all night with temperatures around freezing. I was using the Carinthia Tropen sleeping bag lol. It was almost okay temperature wise. My problem was more getting enough air. Either you’re warm but can’t get enough oxygen, or you get enough oxygen but also freeze. I ended up sleeping with my head outside the Jerven, which allowed me to close it around my body and get enough fresh air.
With the zipper on top the Jerven did get a little wet. I should have laid a poncho over it like I did last time, which is pretty awesome for getting in and out of the Jerven in the rain.
Cheers
Try 2 ridgelines, one for the jerven, one for your tarp or poncho. That will give you cover for your gear and a dry space to get in and out of your jerven.
The zippers take some getting used to. The arm holes, the top zip directly over head, the head end zipper can all be used to help vent.
With the poncho or tarp overhead, venting the top is probably best for releasing condensation from breathe.
@@EnduranceRoom Good idea with the two ridgelines. I'll try that next time. Regarding zippers: I just upgraded all of them with a bit of thin paracord. So nice to find and pull them now, even when they're buried in the corner.
youll get heavy condensation inside if you breath in it.. - when its freezin .. your Fjellduken will freeze too... - always breath out of it
I've had my Jerven extreme for years and I slept on the snow(laying flat) with an Neoair xtherm pad inside, boots off and fully clothed(normal attire for conditions) in -10C. I did wear an extra pair of thick wool socks. I was surprised how well it worked but feet were feeling it in the morning. The Jerven is a great piece of kit.
I've been interested in both these cloaks since I saw them on your channel. Thanks for doing the thermometer tests, very helpful.
Thank you. Glad it helped.
A test when wearing them is worth doing. My Jerven variants are very good for this, although the armhole placement is not 100 since it is symmetrical in design (hard to explain unless you have tried it)
The Jerven bags are a part of the default kit in the Norwegian Army:). Just got my Hunter, so i am looking forward to testing it out
@@runeborgbjerg The Hunter is amazing kit.
Great pieces of equipment. Another video done well Jess! Much love from Canada
Thanks! Appreciate it brother 🤝
Never heard of such a thing before - Thanks!
😎👍
Great cold weather gear review. Top shelf.
Great video and test comparison. Very informative stuff. Always a pleasure to watch my friend. Thank you
Thank you! Cheers
Very cool video (pun not intended)
Couldn’t help thinking of this as The Endurance Room Ziploc. 😂
Great job yet again. Cheers dude.
The Ziploc! Hahah love it. Cheers man 🤝
😬🤘🏻
Thank you for this video. You make a strong case for this type of shelter for below-freezing environments.
I would give the nod to the insulated model, provided it was no heavier than the uninsulated-plus-woobie combo.
Always good to see one of your videos Jess, Thanks.
Thanks Sam. Cheers
Very interest Jess. Thanks
Nate
Thanks Nate! Have a good one
I have experimented for years with minimal kit, after I got out of the military and as a French and Indian war and Reveloutionary War reenactor. I have safety pinned a Mylar sheet to a woobie the past 10 years or so, to use as a blanket, or with a slit cut in it as a poncho or coat. You can go easily down to 40F with just a sweatshirt and into the 30s and 20s with a coat.. I put a zipper horizontally in the woobie and reinforced the Mylar with clear packaging tape. I’ve also used it as a hammock underquilt. The SOL Mylar sheet is the best as it is quiet, tear resistant, and inexpensive and about 4 oz. I use it Mylar side facing me as a blanket on a foam folding mattress to about 40F, and foil side out down to as low as 26 F. The Mylar stops convection and the woobie stops conduction. I tend to bring more layers of clothing between 30-35F rather than sleeping bag for an overnight. When it’s going to be less than 30 F I also bring a 2 lb duck down bag to add to it down to 20F. Below 20F I bring a Wiggys zero sleeping bag. I liked the experiment. Convection is a problem. I will add my rain gear as temps drop. Nylon jacket under sweatshirt, and mil surp Gortex outside of clothing layers.
Nice, I have both I really like both
Yes indeed, great kit!
Great to see you out again bror 👍🏻
Great video! One thing I've always had a hard time with (I'm a cold sleeper), is convection from the ground. Even with a wool blanket down and an air mattress on top, I still get cold cold on whatever part of me is making contact with the ground... inside of my 20 degree back). I keep trying and trying to to acclimate my body to colder temps too.
Wim Hof method is excellent. Well worth adding to your daily routine.
Another AWESOME video! Keep it up Brother!
Thanks Brother! Much appreciated.
Thanks for testing.
Great information Jess!
Thank You!
Thanks Scott!
Hi Jesse! Great comparison, thank you for sharing. I am looking for a thermal cloak for quite a time now, but I could not find something level the jerven fjellduken. But this could be the solution😁! Thanks again 🙏and as always stay safe and all the best from Austria my friend!!!🇦🇹🤠👍🏕🔥
Thanks Brother! Much appreciated. It is well made equipment. I just checked Varusteleka this morning and it looks like they are sold out. Perhaps another option would be 2GoSystems bivvy. It is similar design and function. I have heard good reports on it, but have no experience with one personally. All the best! 🤝
@@EnduranceRoom Thank you for your tip, I have ordered a info mail when they got restocked. I am optimistic that they will be available soon (I hope so😉). In the meantime I will look for your second tip. Thank you my friend and until next time all the best from Austria, Bernd 🇦🇹🤠👍🏕🔥
Thanks for the video and info, Jess. Interesting that there wasn't much difference in warmth with the uninsulated cloak. Wouldn't mind having either one of those. 👍
Thanks Jeff! 🤝
Neat! Thanks for the comparison!
Awesome video!
These are some cool pieces of kit, I have never seen these used in this application. I solely thought they were for hiding from thermal night vision lol.
SARMA FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Outstanding video, Jess.
Thanks Dave. Appreciate man
2014 i ordered my jerven in prep for afg. Worth every penny
Yup. Never regretted mine.
Use Jerven fjällduk and the Jerven hunter fjällduk for wet, windy mountain hunting while sitting on post. Very good product and the mountain camo is spot on for mossy nordic rocky mountain terrain.
The Sarma is a win for me its lighter and cheaper!! This was an AWESOME demo bro glad you did im super happy with my decision wanna hear something ironic 😀 i literary just bought my first woobie thought it would be another multiple use item this one has a perimeter zip to make a sleeping bag and a cloak buckle for wearing i wanna sew a head zip so it pairs wirh the poncho✊️🔥✌️💚
Nice!! Glad you got one brother. Super cool and happy to hear you dig it! The woobie sounds great. Does it still have ties around perimeter? Might be good to add one or two in to secure inside cloak. I added extra ties to mine with paracord. I used the outer shell, removing inner strands. Easy, just a couple stitches. Cheers
@EnduranceRoom yeah it has the tie outs still it's the upgraded military woobie Pinnacle Mercantile a bit expensive but it's genuine top notch quality 👌 cheers brotha!!
Awesome test. Well done.
Thanks Kris!
🙏❤️ Love from Scotland ❤️🙏
very interesting, thank you
Very good thanks
I got a Särmä one with 67g/m2 from Varusteleka, been wanting one for a long, long time. Very impressed! It’s not as bad for condensation as I thought it would, actually minimal. I think it has a lot to do with the fact the zip isn’t waterproof at all and there are gaps on the corners, which might be an issue if using as a bivi bag with no tarp, in the rain, but isn’t really a concern for me as I would always have a tarp or poncho anyway. Was hoping to try it in the cold, 0°C weather we’ve had in the UK, but sadly not had chance so still a mystery as to how cold you can go with it. My thinking is, it’s as heavy as a sleeping bag but, I will save on not having to bring thick, warm coat and thermal trousers for in the evening, so save weight that way. With a light weight sleeping bag in the winter, and using this as a bivi or a tent, or as a wind sock on a tarp, it makes it very versatile!😁. At the time, the original Jerven Fjellduken was just too expensive, plus I was a bit unsure as to whether I would need the XL or a smaller one, I like the fact you could get gable ends to make one version into a tent, but even those were nearly half the cost of mine- I was incredibly lucky because I didn’t get stung with import tax for mine- had it delivered to my local, friendly post office.😁🤣.
I regularly use mine as bivvy bags with either a light sleeping bag or woobie. The coldest I have been out in my jerven was -30F (very cold, -34C). I slept in a hammock tent with a zero degree bag, jerven as a bivvy. It would have been better with the the jerven on the outside of the tent making insulated walls. Really interesting and very effective. Maximizing the air space increases the warmth.
With a tarp or your poncho strung up as a shelter, (A frame, diamond fly or fly), run a second ridgeline underneath to suspend your cloak. With a good sleeping pad, you probably won’t need a sleeping bag inside for temperatures 0 degrees and up. You will have to experiment and see what works for you comfort wise, but these are really remarkable tools. To release condensation, just open zippers above face. Keep it cracked open, and if needed, you can open and then close the bag during night to freshen the air up and cool things down.
Cheers
Hey brother! Great episode! I don't know of someone noticed that earlier BUT from -13°C to +3°C it's +16°C not +10 😅 Just saying. That still makes Särmä a great piece of gear. Best regards!
🌳 🌲 🐗 🌲 🌳
@@RedBoarOutdoors Lol yeah, I caught it after uploading. Off grid, no internet. Getting these uploaded is quite the process sometimes. Cheers 🤝
@@EnduranceRoom no worries brother, I know the pain 😅 I was uploading one episode from Romania this year and I had no data connection in those mountains there so it took me about 14 hours in total and all in roaming costs 😅 You're doing a great job bud, so keep on rocking! Best regards from Poland!
🌳 🌲 🐗 🌲 🌳
The quality of the troops on the ground is what made all the difference in this war. British soldiers are the best in the world without a doubt closely followed by Aussies and kiwis..it's not the biggest armies that are victorious but the best! 🏴
I am very happy with my jerven hunter . As an Norwegian i could not bye anything else.
Should do this also with the heavy insulated jerven extreme. Only problem of the jerven is the often have condensation problems.
2GoSystems XL size reflective Tyvek bivy does the same thing, $95, 1.5 lbs, very compact. it can be worn as a poncho or as clothing too. I pull a ridgeline and a net hammock thru it and have a plastic "envelope' around the bivy. I use another ridgeline, tied to the envelope from the outside. It's important to have the bivy not touch you nor the envelope. You NEED those layers of "trapped air"..
Hang the hammock just 5" off of the ground and kick debris under the hammock, so as to stop air from flowing under you. If you have small amounts of debris, you can stuff it between the layers of your clothing. If you have a LOT of dry debris, you can stuff it between the bivy and the envelope. Each method gains you about 10F degress of warmth. This can rid you of the need for heavy, bulky, expensive winter clothing.
I carry a couple of Amazon full body bugnet suits. 1/4 lb each. I also carry a couple of 1/2 lb each Amazon "cut leaf" camo nets. I can twist the camo nets so that the "leaves" can't "lay-flat' and wrap them around my limbs, between the bugnet suits, all worn as long johns and gain 10F degrees. Naturally the bugnet suits protect me from bugs and the camo nets, in warmer weather, hide me from animals and humans.
I can stuff the bugnet suits with dry debris, and put dry debris under the wraps of camo net (this time outside of my BDUS, and gain yet another 10F degrees. I use Wiggy's net longjohns at all times when it's cold. I can gain another 10F degrees by adding 1 lb of normal, polypropylene longjohns, and as much more by using a discrete Dakota fire pit to heat up some rocks or water and put those items inside the foot box of the reflective tyvek bivy.
Do NOT get the regular size bivy, cause it's too small for anyone but little Asian men. Cut the rain flaps off of the bivy's zipper, or they WILL jam with you inside of the bivy! the two taped together drum liners form the "envelope" around the bivy. They can be used for other things, by taking a small, soft plastic bottle of adhesive-release and another of rubbing alcohol. This lets you remove tape from the plastic and mylar without damaging those materials. I carry a third drum liner for a variety of other things, but often use it to carry debris.
Fold over the bottom corners of the bivy and the envelope and tape them into a mummy configuration. This saves some heat otherwise lost from your legs. Because the bivy is not affected by its getting-wet, it's far more versatile than any sleeping bag
I use a buttpack and a daypack. I can empty them out, stuff them with debris and use them as sleeping pads (normally up in the net hammock) I had to add a much wider, stiffer belt to the buttpack. The sleep/shelter gear and any unused clothing gets folded and rolled up then I lash it to the top of the buttpack. The daypack rides on this gear. This forces the gear to serves as a pack frame. The pads of the shoulder harness are my spare socks and the hip pads are my spare boxer shorts and t shirt. I hate every oz an cubic inch of stuff that I have to lug around.
Been thinking about getting the Sarma for awhile now...about time I pull the trigger.
What parka/coat are you wearing ?
It is great kit. Gorka 3 winter version in ATACS FG
@@EnduranceRoom Thank you for the reply !
Ooff... Gorka 3, may prove to be hard to get these days...
Both of mine are the Insulated versions
I watched you're videos on these two glad I went uninsulated much lighter and multifunctional with other kit!!✊️🔥✌️💚
great man !
Great video comparison. Can I ask what camo parka you were wearing?
Thanks. The jacket is a gorka 3 fleece in ATACS FG
brisk movement is worth almost 20F degrees, so being able to wear this stuff as clothing or as a poncho lets you leave a lot of clothing at home, or at the store. :-). I spray painted the plastic "envelope' in a camo pattern and added a sleeping bag zipper to it. Without that you play hell getting into my setup in a hammock. The outside ridgeline has 4 loops attached to the envelope with slip knots and plastic beads. The beads are inside of the plastic envelope and the slipknots "strangle" the beads from the outside. Then the little loops of paracord are looped around the ridgeline in Prusik knots, which allow me to slide the tie- offs up and down the ridgeline as-needed. iN an emergency, you can just tear your way out of the bivy and repair it with duct tape. There's no stuffings to lose or to get wet.
Man, this makes me happy to hear. Great work. I did a lot of DIY getting started on here. Some of my favorite gear has been the homemade stuff. Well done 👍👍
@@EnduranceRoom thanks. Where I 've lived for the past 15 years, it almost never gets below 20F and then only at night and for at most a few nights of the year. For some reason, parts of Texas are colder than where I am in Ok, and they are WAY south of me? Must be something to do with the Gulf wind.? I got a sleeping bag wet one time and damned near died because of it, Got pneumonia. That was 30 years ago and I"m 71. Cant ris that any more. I reserve sleeping bags for when I"m sleeping in the van. People say 'just dont get it wet'. I know that I"m talking to an amateur who's never been out there when it was pouring down, blowing and they had to move, as vs just sit it out in a tent.
How's condensation build-up in these things?
It takes some getting used to. The insulation absorbs moisture well, while also retaining heat. Using the the zippers near the head is the key to regulating temp and mitigating condensation buildup.
Hey Jess , thxs For sharing !!
grtz. Janneman
Thanks Jan!
What would happen if you combined the two? That would be an interesting experiment.
Yes, absolutely. With these two, I would run the sarma overhead as a tarp, with the jerven underneath in “cocoon” setup.
I heard that without the insulation layer there's going to be too much condensation, so it might not be suitable as a sleeping bag cover. the insulation seems to eliminate the condensation issue.
is this true?
It depends on how it is zipped up, particularly near mouth. Zips can be opened around the bags to reduce condensation and regulate temps.
Can’t go wrong with either one. You have 20° temperatures and our heater and air conditioner alternating coming on and off. Stay safe my friend
It has been a weird couple months up here as well, below zero, then 45 degrees, then back down. Freeze, thaw, repeat. We went from almost bare ground, to snow up to my knees with rain on the way, all inside two weeks.
Have a good one brother.
I’m thinking, maybe the insulation will have more of an impact when the cloak is used more as a close fitting bivi, rather than when it is away from the body, it will have chance to trap your body heat and hold it in close proximity to your body.🤔
I’m thinking, maybe the insulation will have more of an impact when the cloak is used more as a close fitting bivi, rather than when it is away from the body, it will have chance to trap your body heat and hold it in close proximity to your body.🤔
Interesting video, most of the ones I have found on RUclips have been the uninsulated versions, so it’s interesting to have a comparison! I’m very tempted to get another Särmä cloak, the uninsulated one to use as just a tarp. I’m still hankering after a Fjellduken Jerven in the 100g/m2 insulation as well, but in two minds as to whether it’s worth the investment.
The test was a bit flawed... I really should have waited till the thermometer reset fully before testing the Särmä cloak. All of the tests should have been under same circumstances (outside temp, inside duration). Also, I think a little longer inside the bags to let them warm up and move the mercury would have good.
For you, I think either option would be quite useful, uninsulated and the 100gram. Maybe the Exclusive would be the way to go? Being able to zip in different liners as well as have the option to run the outer shell independently would give you what you are looking for in one package. It’s a bit more of an investment, but the options it has are pretty significant. Cheers
Thanks for the video, very interesting. Do they keep out the rain with the zippers being on the top ? 👍
Thanks! Zips will leak some. For rain, either run zips on bottom or under a tarp.
@@EnduranceRoom thanks for the reply 👍
Love your videos bro!!! Do you or have you used a smock (SASstyle)?
Thank you! I have not, but would like to pick one up sometime.
판초라이너 정말 좋아요.
Interesting product/ production. Two digital thermometers would be more compelling! Thanks
What jacket are you wearing?? It is atacs camo??
winter gorka 3 in atacs fg
I carry 10 lbs less pack, shelter/sleep gear/clothing than others for the same conditions and that lets me carry more food, water, ammo, etc. or I save a lot of un-needed fatigue. Fatigue causes illness, injury and oversight of important issues, like enemies.
Good Evening ! I hope all has been well. TAKE CARE..
You too!
There is only one: Jerven. A must for artic military service.
Great vid man! Curious tho, whats the tent shown at 0:21 ?
Thanks! It is hot tent from POMOLY. The picture was from a video about a month ago. Cheers
I think my non-insulated Särmä was worth it. still not cheap, though. the Järven should have gone down in price after 2 decades. it went up instead... made the decision very easy ;-) my insulation is the snugpak jungle bag. now I can't only use it in the summer, a win-win.
Nice. I do carry the uninsulated version quite often. How do you like the Snugpack stuff? Haven’t used any myself.
the jackets and sleeping bags are good, I have the jungle bag for the summer, it's like a woobie turned into a sleeping bag (can still be used as blanket) with a headnet. And a Softie Hawk 9, 3 season bag. In combination they are like the MMSS.@@EnduranceRoom
The product you tested is not listed at the company you said
I said keep an eye out. They should have some soon.
Barracuda, by SAAB is probably the most effective cloak 👍🏻
Are the zippers compatible?
Not sure, gotta check.
What is the jacket you are wearing my friend? I'm liking that
Gorka 3 Winter in A-TACS FG 👍👍
I like your coat. What type is it.
Gorka 3 Winter in A-TACS FG
👍🏻👍🏻
🤝
Hello my name is Federico.
I have been following you for quite some time.
I recently purchased a Russian plasch palatka.
I need you to take away one curiosity.
At one end there are two stitched webbing of cloth. Handle type.
What are they for! ???
Thank you for your videos!
Hey! Thank you. I believe those loops were designed for use with a set of leather suspenders. When the cloak was folded and rolled, a strap was passed through to help secure poncho. From what I read, it sounded like this was largely ignored by most.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Very interesting and informative post. If you ever do something similar in the future can I humbly suggest that you try to omit the word "COOL" from your vocabulary, to avoid confusion . I say this as you were discussing temperature and , additionally, some of the viewers might not have English as their first language and could be a bit confused by your use of the word. Happy Trails.
Thank you and good point! I noticed that as I was filming. Will work on it. Cheers
Haha...
You change your vocabulary???
On the other hand, they could change THEIR vocabulary.....
(Learn a new word--look up a word they dont fully understand)
Here you are giving free information to the ENTIRE world, and someone makes this request?? Wow.
Please listen, this person had some kind of mental problem, whatever you do in your video, they will have some snide comment....
I gotta say, if the word, "cool," Causes you confusion......
you better get off the internet....
Wow!
I would be embarrassed to admit that!! Lol.
@@eriklittlebigg7440 Grow up and stop nitpicking at what was a genuine point.
If you can't see why I made the comment you obviously didn't watch the entire video.
My criticism is constructive in nature ; unlike yours, which comes over as being borderline abusive and displays a lack of knowledge of "the big picture".
@@clivedunning4317
I can't see
the, "big picture," you claim??
Also, you say that I'm,
"nitpicking." Look at your original comment.. That defines nitpicking.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
For the good of humanity, you're going to police all content creators because someone may not understand the words he or she chooses to use.....
The fact you see this as an issue speaks volumes!!
If he didn't use the metric system in the video, I have a feeling you would have made a suggestion based on that!! Lol.
Tell me clove, do you type out , "constructive criticism," for every video you watch? If you do, that is some serious responsibility... (You giving humanity the helping hand we vitally need!!)
I really don't think the viewers and content creators would get along without you Mr Clove.
If a viewer comes across a word or phrase they don't know/understand, its up to THEM to learn it, Google it, check the dictionary etc...
Its simply not the creator's concern whether or not someone can understand his content....
We all know how to use Google by now, i hope.
Otherwise, where does it end?? Are people like you gonna try passing laws mandating certain speech that you find acceptable??
Will i be required to explain jokes or humor to an Asian culture, like the Japanese,
(Who are notoriously serious people) because they don't understand western humor??
It is the individuals responsibly, If they choose to consume the media, they gotta figure it out...
The world doesn't need another, "daddy," to hold their hand and see to it that a content creator, makes allowances for the POSSIBILITY that they might not understand something....
Your suggestions seem to come from a very WOKE place,
Mr Clove. Tell me truthfully Mr Clove, are you a WOKE KAREN??
In reality, the world needs people the take responsibility for themselves, not people who worry about this guys videos, and if someone somewhere ends up confused someday...
Sano Särmä 😉
Did you say that jerven comes from Germany?
Norway 🇳🇴
@@EnduranceRoom i heard wrong, you said jerven but I heard German.
Thanks for the test.
??? The Särmä comes uninsolated, and in two insulation grades. Why compare an uninsulated version with an insulated Jerven?
@@Tscharlieh Because these are the two that I own. I mainly did this video as a demonstration of the effectiveness of these cloaks. Both are very good.
@@EnduranceRoom Ok, seemed a bit like comparing „apples and oranges“ to me. Well, still interesting to see.
👍👍👍
Hi Jess ..
Once again, you do not disappoint 😊. A bit of a delay in my response 😏 .. I've been laid low this last week by a particularly nasty bacterial lung / chest infection that appears to be making the rounds. My partner, she ended up in hospital for a full week and me at home being nursed by the little Malti-Poo 💕. Fortunately the Antibiotics did their job. It went better for me than her .. I've tried to stay fit and active and have never smoked 😏. On the up now and lucid once again .. should be active again in a week or so 😊. Ok, so much for my moans and groans .. 🙄😊.
A good comparison of the two systems and judging by your results and under the conditions that you tested them, not that much to choose between.
As demonstrated by you, and supported by reader's comments, one should understand that 'reflective surfaces' are only effective against radiated heat. Contact .. and conduction then nullifies it's effectiveness. Now, to my point ..
Having the reflective layer as close to the skin as possible, without actually touching it, should make for the most efficient use of the reflective insulative properties. I wonder how effective a coarse 'string / net' type garment, worn up against the body (or up against the reflective layer) and thus avoiding direct contact with the insulation, would be in further enhancing the garments insulating properties.
Just mulling .. idle thought .. whilst 'laid up' 😁.
Take care my friend and I'm looking forward to your next .. Tommy
Hey Tommy! Sorry for the late reply. Notifications have been hit and miss. Hope you and your partner are feeling better! There has been a lot of folks reporting similar issues. Wishing you both the very best!
Great points on the spacing for thermal reflection. Definitely something to be aware of. 👍👍
@@EnduranceRoom 👍
People actually sleep in these things?
I’ve never heard of such a thing. Very strange
Modern take on ranger roll concept
Särma ir jerven Not särma wins jerven exclusive good insulation options
Everyone from the Alaskan Oil workers and Eskimos to the Marine Force recon and NSW people (Naval Special Warfare) ALL USE WIGGY'S from Grand Junction Colorado....don't waste your time and money on junk...
Thanks for your comment. Do you realize how cold it is in Finland or in Norway? (We send our guys to Norway for cold weather training.) These cloaks are actually far more versatile than a sleeping bag and are regularly used in the arctic.
Sunlight beaming on it will increase temp. Do test at night