I have a tip. Next time you are feeling smug and self-satisfied, thinking that you have all of the facts.....just consider how in 10 years you are no longer going to believe most of the stuff that you currently consider as fact.
@@ericscheerer4138 it is just a different lift. Okay especially some people with the cheat sumo set up. Its not a hip hinge anymore lol. Most people that do sumo its not that different to a regular deadlift.
Always an interesting and thoughtful take on things. I always come away with something new. Seriously, dude this channel deserves to be so much bigger.
I don't pretend to know everything and I would never want to anyway, but I do like to try to get people to think from a different perspective. Glad to hear you are finding the info valuable bro.
the grind through your sticking point on the 530 squat is insane, well done. that takes so much mental effort most people would have probably dumped it
Couldn’t agree more that strength training has been conflated with pure powerlifting training. If anything the Pendlay/Starr total of high bar squat/push press, and clean probably offers a bit better more carryover for general strength
i Agree with everything you said here, bro. i much rather have general strength and improve on everything. I love boxing, running, i dont own a car so i have to walk, carry laundry and groceries back and forth why still working a shitty job. I have a plate in my hip from a car accident when i was 13. im 37 now and all this training i do gets more important as the years go by. As always, love your videos, thank you.
Listening to this actually helped remind me of my intended goals and purpose with my overall training program; that being general strength and conditioning and not necessarily the big 3. They still play a big role, but focusing on a diversity of lifts and being strong in many areas rather than only 3 lifts is far more appealing to me and I believe, actually leads to better long term strength and longevity since overuse in the big 3 isn't as much of a concern.
Yep, you can build strength without testing it every single session or week. You're also allowed to do more than 5 reps in a set and still promote strength haha. Loved this one.
Never commented on your videos before but this is the number 1 thing alot of recreational lifters need to hear (especially naturals). Getting better at the Squat, Bench/ Deadlift is not the be all and end all unless you are a competitive powerlifter. Progress is progress no matter the exercise and will eventually lead to a more well rounded strength profile.
A good discussion as always. I 100% agree that powerlifting training does not equal strength training; you especially sold this point in the last part of the video; you're right, strength does serve as the basis for many physical tasks. In order to perform such tasks, one needs to have sufficient strength for the muscle groups associated with that task (which may or may not be similar to powerlifting). Hell (this is more of am anecdote), I've also seen people who have not been able to do the lifts seen in powerlifting as well as I have, but are way beyond my strength overall. Ultimately, powerlifting pidgeon holes a person to three specific lifts and lowers the versatility of their strength (that is, if they don't do any other type of training), as you said in your video.
I care about strength milestones but only relative to the lifts and rep range I’m using to grow. I enjoy maxing but it loses appeal when you know volume work predicts your peaked strength and I don’t see the point of moving more weight if you have to use an easier variation to do it
I did Powerlifting for about 2 years, but trained perhaps 9 months, due to injurys on hips and shoulders. I completely fcked up my shoulders due to benching. Powerlifting destroyed me completely. Before i trained Powerlifting i did mostly calisthenics, i was healthy and really fit and especially shredded and had a lot of muscles. Powerlifting got me fat and unhealthy and i felt most of the time tired. So i stopped Powerlifting and got back into calisthenics and more functional Training and now my shoulders are finally healing, i loose bodyfat and become healthier. I would say Powerlifting is Not a Sport to get fit and strong, its just a specific competition Sport, If someone wants to be healthy and fit, just do other Sports
Respectfully, I think point one is off base. An all-out max and a training max are completely different things, and doing max effort singles at around 90% or so to attenuate upper threshold muscle fibers before moving on to hypertrophy-based work is not inherently dangerous. Certainly not any more dangerous than triples, fives, or 10s, and it’s only neurologically draining if the lifter is too psychologically aroused before performing their training maxes. They shouldn’t be. They should be approached calmly, in a business-as-usual fashion. These maxes can be rotated every max effort day to whichever accessory the lifter chooses and realistically set a PR every time they do max effort. And the changing of exercises, bars, grips, etc, to utilize different joint angles help stave off overuse injuries or overreaching. I see no reason why intermediate or advanced lifters can’t use conjugate-style training year-round for hypertrophy and strength training, which are necessarily linked. If a powerlifter has a meet coming up, they can simply hyper-focus on peaking their big 3’s in a brief prep, take a break after the meet, and then resume their normal strength training. Powerlifters don’t need special snowflake programs lol. They SHOULD be doing general strength training for musculoskeletal balance and longevity and overall health. Sport-specific prep should only comprise a very brief time in any given year
Hmm if your point is that strength training and power lifting is different then yes I'd agree. But if you're saying that powerlifting style training can't build up " everyday" strength then I disagree. Powerlifting is the expression of maximal strength in 3/4 exercises ( conventional vs sumo) if you can sumo dead lift say 625 at a weight of 160 you'd be pretty useful in taxing the groceries to the front door or moving a couch. Why does someone need to be strong in a seated pin press or zombie squat when you can be strong in the bench or back squat? Outside of goals of course. Every sport has a level of specificness that can lead to overuse / boredom power lifting is no different. Lastly even if you take out the super technical powerlifting stuff ( arch, wide stance etc) these lifters are still stronger than 99.9% of the population and they are using said methods to be the best of the best not uncle Phil I'm having a hard time seeing the " ineffective" nature of a sound PL training system. This sounds like a CrossFit argument from 2011. ( Be functional) Functional is different for everyone.
Is there anywhere a systematic analysis of what parts of the body are not strengthened by bench/squat/deadlift and so what supplementary exercises are needed alongside these 3
Main one is back. Deadlift offers some back strength, but you should supplement it with rows and pull-ups. Shoulders would be next with none of the big three hitting middle or rear delts. Rows can take care of rear delts, but you should do OHP’s and work for the mid delts.
What are your thoughts on using Louie Simmons 5x5, 6x6 replacement for dynamic effort? Ie 60-70% with 1 minute rest periods? Would this be a good tool for power, density, and strength development?
One problem is that strength is specific to the task which you are performing. Squat Bench and Deadlift strength isn’t even enough of a constraint. We must also set a rep and intensity value to determine the relative strength of that lifter under those conditions at that moment in time. The idea of “General Strength” is a bit of a misnomer.
I guess the biggest difference between powerlifting and strength training is the incorporation of weighted bodyweight exercises especially weighted chin ups.Most powerlifters don't focus on getting brutally strong at the weighted chin up
@@EnkiriElite bench, squat and deadlift involve up and down motion only, I noticed that some MMA fighters who do powerlifting when they're fighting they're not that stronger than their opponents who didn't do powerlifting but did spend some time in gym
High bar squats, close grip bench and conventional deadlifts are hideous. You need Platz squats, JM presses and stiff legged deadlifts. See? You can purity spiral INFINITELY with this dumb argument
Not *infinitely* lol just farther than he intended. Let's go with bottoms up ATG front squats, behind the neck z press, and deficit DL pulled with the bar at foot height (stiff leg cannot be enforced accurately, but deficit can!). We've spiraled pretty far with those 3 lifts and it would be hard to spiral much further than this lol.
@@Copeman9999 I don’t disagree with this point. The reason why he state this opinion is because low bar could always be lower, arch’s curve more and sumo so wide that the weight barely misses our feet. High bar is high bar. You can’t go any higher. PL just fixed the rules on bench with the new elbow rule. I’m glad I don’t see someone practically doing the splits while using a deadlift bar to move weight .25 cm for lockout. I get why he said that. And I see why we could use different movements to judge strength. Some people take these leverages way too far and it ruins the sport.
Nothing like getting accused of hiding your strength by not doing arched benche sand wide stance squats deliberately done to create a rebound 1 inch below parallel by yanking on your adductors and hip sockets for elasticity! How about sumo lifters making a big deal about straps because that's clearly a crutch! Bromley was right: powerlifting is where people who couldn't do other things - including strongman and bodybuilding - can congregate and circlejerk about how great they are as no one cares or watches them! Maybe I'm caricaturizing too much... it's really those online faux powerlifter wannabes that are like this really, actually strong powerlifters say it like it is!
It is funny you mention Bromley tho cuz he himself was essentially circlejerking about how pointless non-powerlifting or organized sport related lifting feats are in his new odd lifts video where he "accuses" odd lift enjoyers of the same things you allude to. Except all he seems to admit is that he is fragile when it comes to ranges of motion outside the approved domain of powerlifting and strongman (which itself is kinda wacky with the lifts but he still refers to it). The comment thread on that video starting with Deadliestlift's comment is hilarious!
@@illustriousindividual1077 Many people who do shit like Jefferson block pulls and hack deadlifts are not doing those lifts because they actually build anything. They do it because it is in fact gimmicky. Or often the case is that they're noobs - thanks AlphaDestiny and Rick! - who have a bad case of monkey see monkey do. I know that Bromley has absolutely little love for powerlifting and is more of a bodybuilding guy, likes bodybuilding parameters and developmental motions.
That's because strength is specific and dynamic, you need to train the movement you are trying to be "strong" at for it to apply. As an example, just because someone is a strong deadlifter doesn't mean they will automatically be good with atlas stones. Another example is that both calisthenics athletes and powerlifters are "strong", but a cali athlete will never be able to place high at a powerlifting meet without specifically training for it and a high level powerlifter will never be able to do half the feats that these cali guys put up. What powerlifting does is increase your low velocity strength in the squat, bench, and deadlift (and if you are a specialist who does single lift meets than even less than 3). Of course, this does infact carry into other areas of your life, and will make you stronger overall. But what I am trying to say is, just because someone is a strong powerlifter doesn't mean they will be good at every single strength sport under the sun, and this applies to other strength sports too. Arm Wrestlers are "strong" too but you can find videos of Devon online struggling to deadlift 435lbs.
@@Kaledrone Wouldn't a 600 lb deadlifter be better at atlas stones than someone who isn't? Especially if it's conventional. Barring the extreme technician types, powerlifting does seem to carry over pretty good to general strength stuff especially if you do the accessories and have diversity in the supplemental lifts
@@illustriousindividual1077 yes, of course! Or at least, they would have the *potential* to be once they got skilled/good at loading stones. I didn't make this video to try to convince people that "strong isn't strong." And I hope that is not the message people are taking away.
@@EnkiriElite Yeah, I got that much! I read your article back when you wrote it actually. I was responding to the original commenter who seemed to have misunderstood that message.
I have a tip. Next time you are feeling smug and self-satisfied, thinking that you have all of the facts.....just consider how in 10 years you are no longer going to believe most of the stuff that you currently consider as fact.
pin of shame
@@joshuanbixbee2948quite the opposite
I honestly didn't even understand the context of the comment lol.
just fuck off and go do your low bar squats
Dude, the vast majority of what he says on here has been known for multiple decades.
“How much you can Deadlift OR sumo deadlift.” This is a tacit admission by Mr. Enkiri that sumo ain’t a real deadlift.
Good catch!
Even strongman comps don’t allow sumo. In a sport where literally anything else goes even they know sumo is cheating.
@@ericscheerer4138 it is just a different lift. Okay especially some people with the cheat sumo set up. Its not a hip hinge anymore lol. Most people that do sumo its not that different to a regular deadlift.
@@ericscheerer4138 Tf you mean by "even they"?
@@user_ghdq3 yea lmao he's assuming strongman compromises on something
unless he's referring to the permission of hitching then idk
Always an interesting and thoughtful take on things. I always come away with something new. Seriously, dude this channel deserves to be so much bigger.
I don't pretend to know everything and I would never want to anyway, but I do like to try to get people to think from a different perspective. Glad to hear you are finding the info valuable bro.
the grind through your sticking point on the 530 squat is insane, well done. that takes so much mental effort most people would have probably dumped it
Get strong at multiple exercises, not just 3. That’s what’s builds a well balanced physique
Bench Press
Barbell Row
Deadlift
Squat
Cleans
Snatch
Planks
Human Flag
Overhead Press
Handstand push ups
Running
Sprints
Lunges
Weighted Pull Ups
Muscle Ups
Me when i run 300lbs
Couldn’t agree more that strength training has been conflated with pure powerlifting training. If anything the Pendlay/Starr total of high bar squat/push press, and clean probably offers a bit better more carryover for general strength
i Agree with everything you said here, bro. i much rather have general strength and improve on everything. I love boxing, running, i dont own a car so i have to walk, carry laundry and groceries back and forth why still working a shitty job. I have a plate in my hip from a car accident when i was 13. im 37 now and all this training i do gets more important as the years go by. As always, love your videos, thank you.
I like how he finished the "extra risk" segment with footage of him jumping off a roof.
It's the little details bro 😉
Listening to this actually helped remind me of my intended goals and purpose with my overall training program; that being general strength and conditioning and not necessarily the big 3. They still play a big role, but focusing on a diversity of lifts and being strong in many areas rather than only 3 lifts is far more appealing to me and I believe, actually leads to better long term strength and longevity since overuse in the big 3 isn't as much of a concern.
Yep, you can build strength without testing it every single session or week. You're also allowed to do more than 5 reps in a set and still promote strength haha.
Loved this one.
Amazingly giga. So weird to me how everthing that wasn't hypertrophy was automatically powerlifting!
I was just thinking about this for the past couple of days. Thanks for the video. Now go recommend this to more people almighty algorithm.
Never commented on your videos before but this is the number 1 thing alot of recreational lifters need to hear (especially naturals). Getting better at the Squat, Bench/ Deadlift is not the be all and end all unless you are a competitive powerlifter. Progress is progress no matter the exercise and will eventually lead to a more well rounded strength profile.
A good discussion as always. I 100% agree that powerlifting training does not equal strength training; you especially sold this point in the last part of the video; you're right, strength does serve as the basis for many physical tasks. In order to perform such tasks, one needs to have sufficient strength for the muscle groups associated with that task (which may or may not be similar to powerlifting). Hell (this is more of am anecdote), I've also seen people who have not been able to do the lifts seen in powerlifting as well as I have, but are way beyond my strength overall. Ultimately, powerlifting pidgeon holes a person to three specific lifts and lowers the versatility of their strength (that is, if they don't do any other type of training), as you said in your video.
This is a key message to the fitness industry that too many people need to hear. Keep preaching it man!
That 60” box jump is so great! So is your high totals. But love the snatch and overhead presses
OG article enjoyer checkin 🤓 wondered why the topic was so familiar! 😂
I hope you enjoyed it the second time around as well bro!
My reaction to the title=FINALLY
Great video. Have learnt to focus on all lifts, while focusing on 8-15RMs
I care about strength milestones but only relative to the lifts and rep range I’m using to grow. I enjoy maxing but it loses appeal when you know volume work predicts your peaked strength and I don’t see the point of moving more weight if you have to use an easier variation to do it
Just another comment and a Like for the algo.
Stay shredded brahs (and brahettes), we're all gonna make it.
Peace.
Thanks for making this bro.
Glad you enjoyed it man!
I did Powerlifting for about 2 years, but trained perhaps 9 months, due to injurys on hips and shoulders. I completely fcked up my shoulders due to benching. Powerlifting destroyed me completely. Before i trained Powerlifting i did mostly calisthenics, i was healthy and really fit and especially shredded and had a lot of muscles. Powerlifting got me fat and unhealthy and i felt most of the time tired. So i stopped Powerlifting and got back into calisthenics and more functional Training and now my shoulders are finally healing, i loose bodyfat and become healthier. I would say Powerlifting is Not a Sport to get fit and strong, its just a specific competition Sport, If someone wants to be healthy and fit, just do other Sports
Respectfully, I think point one is off base. An all-out max and a training max are completely different things, and doing max effort singles at around 90% or so to attenuate upper threshold muscle fibers before moving on to hypertrophy-based work is not inherently dangerous. Certainly not any more dangerous than triples, fives, or 10s, and it’s only neurologically draining if the lifter is too psychologically aroused before performing their training maxes. They shouldn’t be. They should be approached calmly, in a business-as-usual fashion. These maxes can be rotated every max effort day to whichever accessory the lifter chooses and realistically set a PR every time they do max effort. And the changing of exercises, bars, grips, etc, to utilize different joint angles help stave off overuse injuries or overreaching. I see no reason why intermediate or advanced lifters can’t use conjugate-style training year-round for hypertrophy and strength training, which are necessarily linked. If a powerlifter has a meet coming up, they can simply hyper-focus on peaking their big 3’s in a brief prep, take a break after the meet, and then resume their normal strength training. Powerlifters don’t need special snowflake programs lol. They SHOULD be doing general strength training for musculoskeletal balance and longevity and overall health. Sport-specific prep should only comprise a very brief time in any given year
Hmm if your point is that strength training and power lifting is different then yes I'd agree. But if you're saying that powerlifting style training can't build up " everyday" strength then I disagree.
Powerlifting is the expression of maximal strength in 3/4 exercises ( conventional vs sumo) if you can sumo dead lift say 625 at a weight of 160 you'd be pretty useful in taxing the groceries to the front door or moving a couch.
Why does someone need to be strong in a seated pin press or zombie squat when you can be strong in the bench or back squat? Outside of goals of course.
Every sport has a level of specificness that can lead to overuse / boredom power lifting is no different.
Lastly even if you take out the super technical powerlifting stuff ( arch, wide stance etc) these lifters are still stronger than 99.9% of the population and they are using said methods to be the best of the best not uncle Phil I'm having a hard time seeing the " ineffective" nature of a sound PL training system.
This sounds like a CrossFit argument from 2011. ( Be functional) Functional is different for everyone.
I believe you missed the point of the essay.
@@EnkiriElite then enlighten me if you don't mind.
You obviously didn’t watch the video or hugely missed the point and you have the balls to ask the main to enlighten you? Lol the nerve
Is there anywhere a systematic analysis of what parts of the body are not strengthened by bench/squat/deadlift and so what supplementary exercises are needed alongside these 3
Main one is back. Deadlift offers some back strength, but you should supplement it with rows and pull-ups. Shoulders would be next with none of the big three hitting middle or rear delts. Rows can take care of rear delts, but you should do OHP’s and work for the mid delts.
@@jahimuddin2306 thank you
What are your thoughts on using Louie Simmons 5x5, 6x6 replacement for dynamic effort? Ie 60-70% with 1 minute rest periods? Would this be a good tool for power, density, and strength development?
Amazing video
Great vid Alec. Was wondering could you do one for squatting in heel shoes vs flats? Thanks
It's been so long that i have squatted in flats that my opinion on that topic would not be valid lol
@@EnkiriElitefair
Really spot on !
Most excellent video!
Thank you!
Great perspective
Heavy singles terrify me
One problem is that strength is specific to the task which you are performing. Squat Bench and Deadlift strength isn’t even enough of a constraint. We must also set a rep and intensity value to determine the relative strength of that lifter under those conditions at that moment in time. The idea of “General Strength” is a bit of a misnomer.
A much needed video that I will be referring people to in future discussions.
Glad you found it valuable!
I guess the biggest difference between powerlifting and strength training is the incorporation of weighted bodyweight exercises especially weighted chin ups.Most powerlifters don't focus on getting brutally strong at the weighted chin up
Does powerlifting actually help with MMA, wrestling, etc.?
Depends on how you execute it. Being stronger, all else being equal, makes you a better and more formidable athlete
@@EnkiriElite bench, squat and deadlift involve up and down motion only, I noticed that some MMA fighters who do powerlifting when they're fighting they're not that stronger than their opponents who didn't do powerlifting but did spend some time in gym
Not without proper training in the coordination required and cardio.
It's the same thing.
Nah you are still nobel natty, and be proud of that!
People dont understand this
can you try to deadlift and squat with a car
Specialising early on is killing your gains? 😅
Imo, yes.
@@EnkiriElite Could you make a video going more in depth into this and explain why
powerlifting doesnt mean jack shit in real life, telling u from what i see and i powerlift so
I like your videos
So do i.
Biggest issue with this take is that if I listen to you I won't be able to answer the most important question in training:
"How much ya bench?"
Powerlifting is hideous unless we're talking about high bar squat, close grip bench and conventional deadlift.
High bar squats, close grip bench and conventional deadlifts are hideous. You need Platz squats, JM presses and stiff legged deadlifts.
See? You can purity spiral INFINITELY with this dumb argument
Powerlifting is still a sport for failed bodybuilders though.
@@Copeman9999 Didn't mean for it to be an argument, just my opinion.
Not *infinitely* lol just farther than he intended. Let's go with bottoms up ATG front squats, behind the neck z press, and deficit DL pulled with the bar at foot height (stiff leg cannot be enforced accurately, but deficit can!). We've spiraled pretty far with those 3 lifts and it would be hard to spiral much further than this lol.
@@Copeman9999 I don’t disagree with this point. The reason why he state this opinion is because low bar could always be lower, arch’s curve more and sumo so wide that the weight barely misses our feet. High bar is high bar. You can’t go any higher. PL just fixed the rules on bench with the new elbow rule. I’m glad I don’t see someone practically doing the splits while using a deadlift bar to move weight .25 cm for lockout. I get why he said that. And I see why we could use different movements to judge strength. Some people take these leverages way too far and it ruins the sport.
Solid video
All I learned is that Alec can outrun a truck, and purple laser beams help your deadlift 🙏🏼
alec is kryptonian
Nothing like getting accused of hiding your strength by not doing arched benche sand wide stance squats deliberately done to create a rebound 1 inch below parallel by yanking on your adductors and hip sockets for elasticity! How about sumo lifters making a big deal about straps because that's clearly a crutch! Bromley was right: powerlifting is where people who couldn't do other things - including strongman and bodybuilding - can congregate and circlejerk about how great they are as no one cares or watches them! Maybe I'm caricaturizing too much... it's really those online faux powerlifter wannabes that are like this really, actually strong powerlifters say it like it is!
It is funny you mention Bromley tho cuz he himself was essentially circlejerking about how pointless non-powerlifting or organized sport related lifting feats are in his new odd lifts video where he "accuses" odd lift enjoyers of the same things you allude to. Except all he seems to admit is that he is fragile when it comes to ranges of motion outside the approved domain of powerlifting and strongman (which itself is kinda wacky with the lifts but he still refers to it).
The comment thread on that video starting with Deadliestlift's comment is hilarious!
@@illustriousindividual1077 Many people who do shit like Jefferson block pulls and hack deadlifts are not doing those lifts because they actually build anything. They do it because it is in fact gimmicky. Or often the case is that they're noobs - thanks AlphaDestiny and Rick! - who have a bad case of monkey see monkey do.
I know that Bromley has absolutely little love for powerlifting and is more of a bodybuilding guy, likes bodybuilding parameters and developmental motions.
Did you ever respond to vegan gains tearing up your client for raising his arse on that four plate bench?
Not really controversal for me. Maybe for overly proud powerlifters XD .
I completely disagree , because i consider u as one of the Noble Natties
Damn, that music gets annoying really fast. It's a shame, because it starts distracting me from what you're saying.
Algo
Thank you sir!
This is controversial? 😳
Once you take many of these powerlifters out of the regular planes they train in they’re weak as hell
like what? most of the time my powerlifting strength has carried over pretty well to other aspects of life and other strength sports
That's because strength is specific and dynamic, you need to train the movement you are trying to be "strong" at for it to apply. As an example, just because someone is a strong deadlifter doesn't mean they will automatically be good with atlas stones. Another example is that both calisthenics athletes and powerlifters are "strong", but a cali athlete will never be able to place high at a powerlifting meet without specifically training for it and a high level powerlifter will never be able to do half the feats that these cali guys put up.
What powerlifting does is increase your low velocity strength in the squat, bench, and deadlift (and if you are a specialist who does single lift meets than even less than 3). Of course, this does infact carry into other areas of your life, and will make you stronger overall. But what I am trying to say is, just because someone is a strong powerlifter doesn't mean they will be good at every single strength sport under the sun, and this applies to other strength sports too. Arm Wrestlers are "strong" too but you can find videos of Devon online struggling to deadlift 435lbs.
@@Kaledrone Wouldn't a 600 lb deadlifter be better at atlas stones than someone who isn't? Especially if it's conventional. Barring the extreme technician types, powerlifting does seem to carry over pretty good to general strength stuff especially if you do the accessories and have diversity in the supplemental lifts
@@illustriousindividual1077 yes, of course! Or at least, they would have the *potential* to be once they got skilled/good at loading stones. I didn't make this video to try to convince people that "strong isn't strong." And I hope that is not the message people are taking away.
@@EnkiriElite Yeah, I got that much! I read your article back when you wrote it actually. I was responding to the original commenter who seemed to have misunderstood that message.