@@LairdErnst Somewhat true yeah. Clones are miles better than storm troopers. That being said though, the few cases of clones versus regular (not remotely close to imperial guard level) organic armies that do exist in star wars are the cases where the most clones died by far in the whole war. Storm troopers are shit but clones from what I can tell aren't much better than normal IRL soldiers in terms of raw combat and tactical prowess. At the end of the day, they were born and trained to kill droids and jedi of which they did great. Not armies of real people, which they have repeatedly shown to only be average at.
@@LairdErnstClone troopers would wipe imperial guardsmen (not all) but in a controlled environment with even numbers. The IG has good weaponry, but the clones have more training and experience. IG troops unless they're veteran have little to no battle experience given their casualty rates. The clones would definitely not bum rush these guys, it'd take strategy (if we exclude Jedi tactics and include hardcore strategy from the perspective of a veteran Clone).
Star Trek infantry was a joke until the very recent shows, which only portrayed them as "slightly less worse". No armour. No helmets. No personal shields. No drones or robotic aides. No vehicles or air support. It makes no sense that you don't have that unless you're consistently glassing the planets occupied by the enemy. It's the one part where Star Trek has consistently been very unimaginative and poorly shown, even in otherwise great episodes that show the horrors of war such as on DS9 or BNW. Budget of course played a major part in that so it's understandable to an extent.
@@christiandauz3742 I can't remember playing Elite Force all to well, but from what I remember you were a bit if a badass. Personal shields, variety of weapons, Tech that let you get the drop on enemies... Oh, and calling in strikes from Voyager!!!! like, theres a tank in my way 'get rid if it' levels of precision. With equal numbers, I think they would take this fight. Numbers given, just no chance. They would make the best gurella fighters though.
Yeah, that depends on where you get your imagery. A lot of what they show was constrained by Roddenberry or budgets. The man didn't want pockets on Star Fleet uniforms. However, in certain books and, yes, more recent offerings things are different. As much as I do enjoy Star Trek, Roddenberry had some weird ideas.
@@Alphacheesehunter Yes. And that's the reason why people shouldn't worship at his altar. He was a visionary for his time, but some of his ideas would've been absolutely ridiculous to modern audiences.
The Imperial Guard (Astra Militarum) is assumed to be around 500 trillion. It should be noted that the Imperial Guard are actually (mostly) a elite force used as a mobile force, and they are heavily outnumbered by the Planetary Defence Forces (PDF) which each imperial world must have. To make a comparison, on a Hive world there could be anything from several hundred million PDF forces to several billions, and during a invasion with conscripted forces they can have anything from several billions to a trillion men. Attacking a Imperial world is in such a way not just a question about how many Imperial Guards are defending it, but also all the other forces - the PDF being the largest in all but very few cases.
PDF is irregular force. It depends on planet government, how many soldiers are recruited, how they are equipped and trained. So its basically milita. Of course, we have examples such as Ultramar Auxilia but mostly local forces are not prepared for full-scale long war
@@andrejplyutin2350 PDF forces include void borne defenses, fleets, stations and orbital defenses, PDF regiments (which for all intent and purposes are like the Guard - but kept on site rather than sent away) AND irregular forces like militias. Every system is tasked with having PDF forces but these vary depending on the manpower and technology available in a system. These are however in almost all cases except notable exceptions like Cadia/Krieg/Catachan etc, many times larger than the guard tithes sent away. Calling forces that have access to entire fleets and every kind of land based force seen in the guard and often also several times larger as just "irregulars" is pretty strange.
@@Luizguilherme-iz9yl In most cases yes. They are in fact a big step up from say PDF forces as these are (unless penal regiments or tithes from back-water/low tech worlds) in most cases career military given the best available resources and tech from their homeworld as part of the tithe. They are not super soldiers, but compared to most they are often veterans and do nothing but train for and wage war.
I do forget about the fact that Stormtroopers are not the rank and file soldiers of the Empire. Those are technically the elites, since we really only seeing them assault rebel bases, or are stationed in places that are incredibly important to the empire, such as the Death Star or the gas refining plant they blew up in Mando. As we saw in Solo, there are countless battles all across the Galaxy, and this isn’t the clone wars anymore. High quality armor is not needed, since the Empire cares even less about lives than the Republic cared for the clones.
Stormtroopers are a joke now but in the old EU stormtrooper armor provided ballistic protection, NPC protection, and could stop lower power blaster pistols.
Imperial guard regiments of the Astra Militarum are not rank and file soldiers. To even be considered to join any guardsmen regiment you have to be the best soldier available from the planets PDF which IS a general forces unit. The only exemption to this rule is Penal Legion units who are literally just death row inmates and are not considered part of the Astra Militarum. Some regiments are so legendary that the Tempestus Scions (Imperial elite special forces) get sent to those regiments as a segment of their training. One example of this is the Elysian Guard who are masters of ship to ship boarding actions as well as Grav Chute (jet-pack) warfare [Functionally they're the 40k version of the 101st airborne and 82nd airborne sprinkled in with USMC Force Recon on steroids.] The biggest problem that 40k has is many people who enjoy the fiction mostly get their knowledge from memes and shitposts instead of the actual novels, Unlike Starwars and halo's fans who generally have to deal with the parent company shitting on the lore and changing it every 10 months.
I was listening for that as well. He does specify the imperial army ground force and the armor he talks about is specifically what the imperial ground troops use, as seen in Solo and Andor. Chest plate, helmet and goggles which means he wasn’t referring to the Stormtrooper corps. Which is more like a marine corps of the empire. Ship boarding the Tantive IV, expeditionary ground assault on Hoth, and installation security on high value assets seems to be their jobs. Whereas the army troopers have a much more diverse set duties from ground assault, planetary defense, garrison duty, mechanized armor and so on.
@crimsonshadow3089 PDFs are predominantly the first and last line of defense for many worlds, at the lowest level they're roaming gangs while on valuable systems they are responsible for the defense of its entire sector, specific examples were the Cadian PDF the Elysian PDF Kriegs PDF and Ultramars Auxillia (Their version of a human PDF) Also, is it equating anyone to a Coast Guard, which is literally a military branch proving my point further. Also PDFs are identified as "Primary Military Defense forces of a world or sector"
@@astronomybrainiacthey don't need those super heavys for an AT-AT. Just a Devil Dog (Hellhound variant that had its Infernocannon swapped with a Melta Cannon) could do it by driving into the AT's blind spot and blast it's legs off.
@@Alex-xt1rr Yeah but again, AT-AT’s aren’t alone and from what I can tell they’re used as Siege engines to drive forward backed up by combined arms of smaller tanks/walkers and infantry. I think these would be pretty difficult to flank especially when the Imperial Guard’s preferred tactic is trench warfare.
Halo is a great series but UNSC marines and army troopers are basically just modern soldiers. I'd rate modern soldiers above redshirts but that's just because they don't properly apply their military technology.
The Imperial Guard can fight in any war scenario, never gives up and also has heavy weapons, cannons, plasma and much more. True that such weapons are one in twenty or thirty soldiers, but when you have the numbers, they are still billions of weapons of various kinds, not just lasgun. There are quotes of several trillions of new guards trained and sent each have. not to mention the forces already on the various planets and fronts. So I give victory to the valiant men and women of the Imperium.
Cadia Stands, not just in words but because there were so many cadians fighting around in the Imperium the destruction of their planet was not critical and they were able to restart their civilization.
@@dillonpeterson66 I agree that startrek has better weapons but the Imperial guard takes the W bro, they have way more bodies then Startrek. If we say that startrek only had 250k soldier and we say that the Imperial Guard has 1 billion units (which there are estimated to be trillions of guardsmen in total) it is 1 startrek trooper to 4 thousand Imperial guards. I don’t think you would want to be in the situation where there are 4 thousand units charging. That and even though lasguns have less range then a phaser, they still have the capability to blow off limbs with ease. He also didn’t go over this but they also have access to things called Longlass’s which are basically sniper versions of a lasgun.
The Imperial Guard even if they had no armor, support or weapons would drown all the other forces in Imperial blood before they even noticed the losses taken. I personally think the UNSC is a better military but they'd have no chance against the suicidal tidal wave of Imerial incompetence.
The guard aren't incompetent, for the most part. The majority of planets follow the cadian standards for recruitment and that states that only the top 10%-20% of PDF may be considered acceptable for guard recruitment and training. This can change wildly in terms of end of training skill level, but it does assure that a guard regiment consists of a planets best soldiers with the best quality gear that can be sustainably provided to them. Planetary governors are rare to fuck with the quality of their guard export, since it is one of the few things they can do that would mean an eventually but reasonably assured of a horrific culling of them and their entire bloodline if they did. 90% of the campaigns they are apart of are nothing like the battles we usually see them in which would be the 1000+ 10% of apocalyptic battles involving huge deployments of millions of guard supporting millions to trillions of PDF forces with other special factions like astartes, sisters of battle and various other imperial factions included 90% of the time they do win with little to no intervention from superior factions like space marines, with rarely needing to resort to the insane tactics they use those 10% insane circumstances and the times when they do start up the meatgrinder.... it's most often using the PDF ground forces that got conscripted into guard conscripts under Imperial guard command... because why use your own elite guys from your own culture when there are a billion of these other guys who worship the emperor weirdly (not like us) just right there lol I do agree that the UNSC does run better overall but that's largely because of their superior FTL and the fact the UNSC at the height of it's power was like not even a 1/10th the size of pre-heresy ultramar, let alone the imperium. That's like comparing a pond to the ocean. *tldr*: The guard are normally very very good and would win due to being very good, not needing to result to sheer numbers to defeat UNSC military ground forces.
@@mastershangchi3410 nice to see someone saying it: the IG are an elite army and very capable of what they do. it is just that most stories from 40k are bolter porn, where SM units are deployed. for that to happen, the IG already faces overwhelming odds, so they obviously die in troves to make the SM look better on tabletop, they have to fight vs the strongest stuff the enemy can muster, so they are again a horde army. but in reality, they regulary just fight relativly normal troops, where the lasgun and flakarmor is more than enough. reminds me of the whovian, who was angry at me because I said IG can beat the dalek empire
The Marines is not the main Army in halo they just get all the press from Bungie and 343, the Army is still the main land force of the UNSC,although they have been neglected and watered down in game they still are the main fighting force. A more accurate comparison will be to add factions from CD Advance Warfare/Infinite Warfare Starcraft Mass Effect Planetside Killzone Section 8 Starship Troppers (Invasion Universe) Gears of War Fallout and Star Citizen
God Emperor: …but… but the other guys are also making up just as crazy numbers and rules to help them why can’t I do it?! Chaos Gods: ah this war was fun for those few dozen planets… anyways lemme go back to my pocket dimension within a larger chaos dimension that humans lose their mind if they enter shielded
That's the point of 40k. Everything is overpowered that within the universe everything is "balanced" per say. That's why warhammer will always stomp any other universe, because every aspect is insanely over the top compared to other franchises
Star trek has the best starships and the worst infantry as they mostly dont need it. But when they do, their infantry is often equipped with the most advance tech.
@@congnghequansuvn474 only in the comfort department. There hyperdrives are terrible, they have barely any armor, their weapons are mid, and the only protection their crew has is a cloth uniform.
I feel like the Star Trek forces were just tacked on and really just dont stack up. Especially when a behemoth like 40k is involved. A better pick to compare would have been something like the Terran Dominion's military from Starcraft or the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers.
One thing you discounted from Starfleet is that their phasers are regenerative, meaning they have near-limitless ammunition to fire. If they have starship support, then they can have an area swept with phasers and photon torpedoes and either vaporize or stun entire armies.
So do the las guns from 40K in legit both things you brought up the power pack can be recharged by literally putting it in a fire and Startrek isn’t special for glassing worlds 40K is great at doing that and at providing orbital bombardment
Star Trek doesn’t actually utilize infantry in the same way as other franchises; employing advanced medical technology, sensor equipment, and weaponry capable of vaporizing nearly anything. Startrek troops have been known to use ballistic shields, hologram technology, force fields, cloaking, beaming, and heavy artillery as parts of their operations. Star Trek is severely lowballed in my opinion.
still lacks the numbers compared to everyone else tho. Hell the IoM would shit all over Star Trek both in the void and on the ground due to numbers alone. Their tech. is esoteric and complex enough to drive any Starfleet engineer mad especially once they hear about things like machine spirits ..... and then learning said machine spirits are actually a real thing .... yea the insanity inducing kind of mad.
@Phenixtri it isn't really that good of an argument if all you can say is numbers. 40k win in numbers because many things they once have are either hard to make in scale or pure impossibility.
@@MortabluntScientists in Star Trek are creating planets from scratch, and some random dude with emotional issues destroyed an entire solar system by blowing up a star with a homemade missile. Sisko sent a few torpedoes down to make a planet's atmosphere toxic to humans, _and only humans._ Starfleet was like "Well, we can't _legally_ make a cloaking device, but what if we made a ship that can fly through planets?" Star Trek is hilariously ahead of the rest on scientific levels. The only place it's behind is ftl speeds, where Stargate has a solid win.
I enjoy Halo for its more grounded approach. Between humanity still struggling with FTL travel, their military bearing some semblance of familiarity to what we have today, being on the verge of complete and utter breakdown with the outer colonies, their weaponry still utilizing projectiles. It just helps immerse me further into the franchise more so than any other scifi universe.
14:40 in the Star Trek TOS Episode Arena were mortars introduced as part of Federation Ground Forces Armament moreover for high intensity operations they could be equiped with personal force fields (ST DS9 Homefront) btw in ST DS9 Rocks and Shoals phaser rifles were used at ranges of 200 to 300 meters and these phaser rifles were stanard issue for Federation Ground Forces ( ST DS9 The Siege of AR855) Please don't confuse Federation Ground Forces with Starfleet Security
I think one thing missed here is the attitude and way they are raised. So like Cadians, Catachan or Vahallans and so forth are raised as well. I mean Death Corps of Krieg want to die in service of the Emperor. Cadians are very much raised to fight in the military. That type of intangible does matter.
Thats definitely a debatable statement because your suggestion is that 40K humanity doesn’t have quality the imperial guard is the like third level formation that humanity has in that universe From best to worst it goes Custodies Adeptus Astartes Sisters of battle Elite guard formations (IE the black, the shock troopers and the Mortien iron guard) Standard guard formations (cadiens and the death corps of krieg) PDF Peinel legion To suggest that it isn’t quality is insane the shear variation of heavy and anti armor weapons at the infantry level that is being carried by the guard is batshit crazy the best weapons for anti armor carried by the UNSC might be lucky the take off the paint from a leman Russ MBT much less some of the bigger tanks they have that’s not even me going into the sheer ludicrous amount of armor and armor variety they have and artillery
_Emphasis on technically._ The planetary aircraft flyboys are under the jurisdiction of the Guard Commissariat while on-planet, so they're really 'Navy in name only' at that point.
The official name is Astra Millitarum (Latin for Astral Military). Imperial Guard is just a moniker often used by other branches of the Imperium of Man (and other races) to distinguish them from the rest
As I see it, there isn't a single facet of war that any other of these militaries can even compare to the Guard in. To start, the guard by far has the numerical advantage in all capacities, whether it be in infantry or armor. The tanks deployed by the Guard are another big point in their skills, with Baneblades and really any other of their larger tanks being far superior to anything the UNSC or the Storm Troopers could field. The guard have amazing air craft, unbeatable artillery, and not even to mention their auxiliaries (namely Knights) and other components (Ogryns and Tempestus Scions to name a few). And if we were to say bring in the other military branches that some of these factions have like the Imperial Navy and Sith from Starwars, the Spartans and UNSC Navy from Halo, the Star Trek Navy (I don't know the name, srry), and then all of the other Imperium Military Branches (Admech, Astartes, Sisters of Battle), then the battle goes from tilted towards the Militarum to a snow ball's chance in hell that any other faction comes close to beating the Imperium. Sorry if that was hard to read or too critical, but that's how I see it Edit: I also noticed that a lot of the other factions got to be compared with their fleets, in which case the Imperium would stomp the other factions even harder thanks to their obscenely powerful star craft.
I once read an old Trek tech manual that said on max settings, a standard issue hand phaser could vaporize a building. Problem with Trek is they are only as powerful as the plot calls for. They could probably field troops with personal shields and building vaporizing phasers but instead you got redshirts with phaser rifles on narrow beam settings. I kind of have to give it to the Empire for vehicles. Though the UNSC is quickly catching up with Mantis and the Cyclops. Give them some more time to reverse engineer Forerunner tech and they'll have all kinds of stuff that'll scare the other armies.
I love 40K I really do but the baneblade just isn’t that common look at the war for vraks for example that was several death corps formations and they only brought a handful of them
You pulled me into this nerd argument, dang it. I have no idea how the 40K game gets marks for its artillery and air support fighters, when it is also a highly computer phobic setting. And I remember guessing inches and rolling scatter dice at battlefield distances of a sniper rifle shot. I mean, sheesh, the Imperial Guard has one radio per squad? Give 40K "It's magically delicious" power guns, but remember their logistics and communication and targeting are all, at the very best, at World War II levels.
The Mechanicus that makes and maintains all the tech while basically being its own quasi-empire, has pretty 21st Century battle management systems, assorted techno-BS shenanigans, and very, very fancy targeting, while better-equipped Imperial Guard regiments have every single soldier issued a comm-bead for internal squad communication. There's just not much uniformity. They also have heavy MLRS systems firing Deathstrike missiles, which are essentially mini-nukes minus the severe ionizing radiation or fallout. That, plus sheer volume of fire.
Anyone have the source for the art at 4:20? It goes hard as fuck. I especially dig all the little details like the different ways they hold their helmets, blasters, or sling their kit (I really like the incorporation of the oft seen garrison cover that some of them sport). They all look unique, which goes against the common idea of what a stormtrooper is supposed to look like, but it also looks super realistic, like their CO is just forming them up after some fuck-off patrol or at a motor-pool or something.
you got one thing wrong, stormtrooper armor is a material called plasteel, a ceramic mix of metals and plastics, allowing for protection of even up to 50 cal bullets, albeit a 50 cal is still going to crack the armor and break the troopers ribs but will still keep him alive.
The guardsman and it’s not even close. Las guns are infinite ammo Spartan lasers if you really want to get technical that can be adjusted to fire weaker or stronger beams and can be recharged by the sun. They can also over lock the magazines of the las gun to make a makeshift grenade. Did I also mention there are TRILLIONS OF THEM
Well, in an attrition war you gotta hand it to the imperium. Which, probably just should win, because in a toe to toe of any of these, they’d win, no matter how many lives were wasted along the way. And while the average trooper could have just been handed a lasgun and told to go die for the emperor, their elite regiments are as elite as any of these. And they all are accustomed to handling a wide range of horrors. The empire is a smaller, worse equipped, worse armored, more incompetent (with no firing skill) version of the imperium. Maybe some dark troopers and supercommandos are a bit better. But still not anything capable of changing the outcome. The UNSC is up there when it comes to training and attempt to preserve life. If you factor in spartans (but ignore space marines from earlier), then maybe in a 1:1 fight these guys would win out. But the imperium has billions for every UNSC trooper. And an ODST is pretty comparable to an elysian drop trooper. Star trek, aside from some cheeky teleportation, just isn’t kitted out for frontline attritional combat. They lose. They lose big. Best thing they can do is avoid the fight entirely.
Whenever we have this kinda arguement, I always say look at the enemies they are fighting and if they are still expanding: Star Wars: Rebels and they lost despite superior weapons and numbers Star Trek: largely unopposed expect for the Klingon (initially) and the Borg, even then they had trouble winning against the Klingons leading to an alliance Halo: constantly running and losing against the Covenant, and thankfully the infighting between the Elites and Brutes gave the UNSC a chance to push back WH40k: Brutal Orks tides, ancient Eldar (but occasionally allied with them), sadistic Dark Eldar, Tyranids mega swarms, technologically superior T'au, literal Chaos demons from hell, elridtch horrors of Necrons. And the Imperium of Man is still expanding and reclaiming entire solar systems from the territories they lost from the Horus Heresy and the Fall of Cadia. So you tell me which army would win in a fight 😂
Star Fleet, if they have a ship in orbit or a base on the ground transporters make for very accurate artillery support. Unfortunately most of the franchises writers have no military experience combined with the imagination that makes transporters and replicators incredibly dangerous weapon systems.
The most misconception about Astra Militarum or Imperial Guard is Imperial Guard is entirely made out of force conscript from Imperial Citizen, While some occasion happeneds (Occasion meaning Trillions being alone here), Nearly almost all Imperial Guard or Guardsman Regiment are made out of Elite infantry force from their recruitment of Each Planetary,Sectoral or System Defense Force, The Guardsman have ridicilous of this Quintillion of being that considered as Heavy and Elite Infantry force is because Imperium is so fucking unimaginably gargantuan, There could be Milions or hell Bilions of Regiments and remember, Guard regiment dont have requirement "Minimum and Maximum force", One Regiment can have Bilions of Guardsman alone, On the Warzone region, Entire star system or sector can be converted into super-multi stellar military installation where its entire system planet,orbital yard,satellite population subjected into War Machine production or Imperial Guard and Navy. And remember, By meaning extremely diverse not only culture, but depend how the origin backdoor of its regiment are, The Harsh environtment but advanced tech can lead a Guard regiment where its entire guardsman is semi modified or clone genetically. A Backworld where it may have star trek advancement with semi digitalized or semi Holy Omnissiah (Probably mini-AI) can made entire guard is offshoot of cyberskeleton and advanced force
I’m a die hard Star Wars fan but I gotta give it to those Warhammer boys. I’ve read dark stuff on Star Wars but Warhammer lore is literally built around that stuff, it essentially made itself one of the huge contributors to the “Grimdark” setting.
Thing is being Grimdark is a liability in a universe stand off, since it makes all the competitors more socially acceptable alternatives to joining the Tau, which is the big X Factor this video and most comparisons that proport "nah 40k wins" forget.
Honestly universe vs universe or person vs person feels a little overdone but understandable for like decades now, but im surprised despite being sci-fi, noone ever did like a technology vs technology kind of thing, im sure the guys from 40k universe would really really love a lot of things from the guys at star trek, i mean im standing on the firm belief that star trek and dune has the most powerful basic infantry weapons.
The 40K Imperial Guard literally has TRILLIONS of personal to call upon. And unlike most sci-fi armies. The Guard are willing and able to sacrifice millions to win battles.
@@CanadianLegionaire Depends on the regiment. Halo is based on our modern NATO style armies. There are regiments that would be more like them and there are regiments that are complete oposite. I will not count penal legions but cadians, Steel legion and others would be quite modern style of army. Krieg are seen by modern standards outdated but their doctrine seems to be quite valid in the last few years. Tempestus scions and elysians are also modern troops. Yes you have armies that are outdated or suitable to open field war. Catachans and Armagedons Orc hunters are both querila regiments. To sumarise, Halo is closest to the moders doctrine currently used by NATO. Realisticly you are not conquering planet like modern earth in total war with less then 50+ million soldiers (this includes support personal). Yes modern armies are small but they count on Turning their standard personal into officers in case of proper war to rapidly boost their numbers. Most universes struggle with numbers.
@@hordynighthawk325 you know that wh is not written to be taken literally right?? unreliable narrative is the base of wh, because of that rule is that exist many contradictions, inconsistencies and many more errors than most of the fictional universes do not have.
@@hordynighthawk325 You're right that Halo is based more on our modern NATO doctrines. Its clear that, for the UNSC marine corps at least, maneuver warfare is the name of the game. The thing is though, the UNSC military wasn't used to invade worlds. During the human-covenant war it was constantly on the defensive. That's not to say it didn't go on the offensive. For example, early during the battle of Reach, the UNSC launched major offensive in an attempt to wipe out the covenant presence on Reach. However, that offensive was part of a wider defensive campaign. As for planetary campaigns, when it comes to realism all settings struggle with this because they always either forget or simply don't show the most important part. Logistics. Doesn't matter if you have 50 million soldiers or 500 million. If you don't have the supply lines to keep those troops fed, to make sure they have a steady supply of ammo (which disappears insanely fast), spare parts and vehicles etc. You're campaign is doomed to fail. The only part that I would say 40k has over Halo in the realism department is the numbers used to invade a populated world. Like stated previously however, the UNSC wasn't sending invasion fleets to land on Covenant planets to conquer and hold them. Other then that Halo is far more realistic then 40k.
Aside from the countless of numbers and insane weapons of the 40k universe, which is mainly to go compete batshit overboard compared to all other stories, don’t forget the mindset of the Imperium when it comes to war. A quote like “Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. Those who understand know that you have no right to let them live." sums it all up why 40k beats any other setting.
If you want to see a universe that makes 40K look lame, look up "The Culture" by Iain Banks. Their personal hand weapons have outputs in the kiloton range, and technology that makes Star Trek seem primitive. As one of the ship AIs says, "The only impact of organics in a space battle is to make the colors of the explosions slightly different."
Halo's high-ends can contest with War in Heaven factions. The Culture, Xeelee, and many other settings can comfortably overwhelm Warhammer 40k's galaxy. Warhammer's tech isn't as impressive as people make it out to be.
The number of Guardsmen is stated in lore to be in the untold billions to Trillions. Basically not everyone is a soldier in any of these settings. In Halo the only reason the UNSC got the military up to over 25 billion was that they drafted everyone they could into the fight to save humanities ass. With that said if we had an accurate population number to work with for the entirety of the Imperium's million worlds then we could figure out the number of troops they would have using real world military as the base percentage. For example if we said that the Imperium has 100 Quadrillion citizens and that 0.1% are active in the Imperial Guard alone. We would have 100,000,000,000,000 or in words ... 100 Trillion Imperial Guardsmen. This is not counting outer military forces of the Imperium. If this maybe 10% would be officers , 40% NCOs and the remaining 50% being the grunts that get the job done. This means the command staff would consist of 10 trillion officers across the entire Imperial Guard. The NCO corps would be 40 trillion strong and of course the hands that get shit done would be at 50 Trillion strong. This for the Imperium makes a lot of sense because of how spread out everything is and the fact that billions die in the Imperial Guard daily and Billions more are recruited to take their place. Again this is just the Imperial Guard. It isn't counting the Navy or the Mechanicus or any other forces that would realistically be involved in any major deployment of the Imperial Guard.
Honestly as far as ground militaries go I'd rank them as following. 1# Imperial Guard 2# Imperial Army ( disney canon ) 3# USNC 4# Starfleet or 1# Imperial Army ( EU canon ) 2# Imperial Guard 3# USNC 4# Starfleet
idc how technologyically advance the opposing infantry is the imperial guard is the true underdog that show the strength of humanity to run in the feild with fucking bayonets no other scifi universe dose that except clone troopers but they are mostly lead by some incompitent jedi if its not a named character
And don't forget Lasgun from 40k >>>>> Standard Weapon from Halo Startrek & Starwars Insanely good for logistic, literally infinite ammo, you can recharge it with sunlight, can be used for grenade, output can be adjusted, no recoil, standard lasgun is enough to punch a hole through an unarmored adult human, the community meme it as flashlight since their enemy is literally satan armored with a metal thicker than a tank and some has a forcefield
Standard ? You do realize that every weapon in Halo's Infantry arsenal is considered standard issue for whatever purpose. Also the UNSC Marines and Army have air wings that include fighters and bombers. Which can be used to drop Nukes on the Imperial Guard. So Nuke >>>>>>> Lasgun wielding Guardsmen. Also for ground weapons the UNSC Marine and Army snipers can use the M99A2S3 Stanchion Gauss rifle and blow the Guardsmen apart from 4.9 miles away. Or any other railgun or gauss based weapon. The ARC-920 Railgun is standard issue. Or maybe the Spartan Laser being used against infantry and armor. Or how about a missile launcher they have those as well. The M57 Pilum variant Ad Victorium fires three laser-guided missiles in a "V" formation, all equipped with an airburst proximity fuse. The operator can use smart scope in order to guide the missiles with the reticle. Or use the missiles with thermobaric filters that literally suck the air out of where the Guardsmen are taking cover killing all of them inside. Yeah the UNSC Marines and Army have a whole lot of options as well.
@@John2r1 Oh so we want to use the whole arsenal for comparison is that it? You want to go there really? You compare a tiny nuke in 40k settings? Really now? Okay then imma just say this then, 1 imperial navy ship with deranged inquisitor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Entire UNSC + and its colonies You want nuke? 1 imperial navy ships had thousands of them laying around and they had millions of ship ready to jump your planet Oh nuke is too tame for your small number UNSC fighter? alright let's try Cyclonic Torpedo, Magna Torpedo, Virus Bomb, Atmospheric incinerator torpedo, Modalis Atmospheric Missile Let's see those spartans of yours living without oxygen or any atmosphere + no life supports You want to compare the whole weapon arsenal? what an idiot
This is why Starfleet needs a dedicated Marine Corps. Even if you don’t have a war with the Dominion or the Klingons coming up every decade, having a dedicated ground force that can be assigned to exploration ships as an escort for the senior bridge staff (which apparently has to go on all the missions) so that they have an “adequate” security element. And if they’re not required to gear up for a mission they can double as security augmentees. Search and rescue, expeditionary security, prisoner escorts, anti-boarders, anti-piracy would all be perfect for a marine force on the boarders of federation space, and would keep a ground force experienced for the next war.
As much as I love the Imperial army from Star Wars I think you've actually overestimated their effectiveness, Leman Russes would run circles around them with ease and a good shot from the Battle Cannon would probably destory an AT-AT let alone any Melta weapon which would turn any Imperial armour into swiss cheese with ease, hell if it was a Stormblade Super Heavy tank it would probably be able to solo an entire battlion of AT-AT's single handed seeing as it's made to counter Titans, just cause you discounted Titans doesn't mean you've really taken Titan level firepower from the Guard.
I think, Halo Marines are lower tier as the Rebels, idk about the star trek one but I know a lot IG, it depends of what regiment so lets cut the chase and go full deep with the best of them all. I think: 1st position would Imperial Guard of the regiment that works with the Custodians and Sisters of Silence "Lucifer Blacks" wich are literaly above human while still being human. 2nd would be Star Trek soldier I think just becuase of tech, idk much of them but I know they tend to go in the OP direction 3rd would be ODSTs cuz helljumpers are extremely resiliant as competent in surviving the ones that are above him. 4th would be Rebels cuz they are just Rebels, Jedi or Clonetroopers (post shenanigans) dont count cuz they are from another faction that joined the Rebels.
to be fair, comparing warhammer 40k with the things in any other setting is unfair to the other setting - warhammer looks at settings whose insanity maxes at 10, then looks at those breaking the barrier and decides to take it to at least 13.
Meanwhile the Imperial Guard untold billions per day high end trillions of troops at any given time. UNSC Marine Corps over 6.7 Million . UNSC Army over 2.2 Billion troops at the end of nearly 30 years of war that cost the UNSC 23 Billion troops and who knows how many civilians actually died. Total military size for ground forces roughly 25,206,750,000 give or take over the course of the nearly 3 decades of war. Yeah the Galactic Empires forces are the ones outnumbered here. To the shock of most people who don't realize that just because you have a population in the quadrillions doesn't mean those people are going to all wake up one day and join the military. The UNSC got these kinds of numbers by drafting every able bodied man and woman and on occasions children ie Spartan 2 and 3 programs to fight the war.
Star Trek do have rifles. They are seen few times throughout the shows bu they are there. Some of the few times we see them is in the dominion war. So you are basically making Star Trek fight with their side weapons rather than with their primaries.
Starfleet = Most technologically advanced Astra Militarum = Toughest and highest in quantity UNSC = Most professional and tactically sound. Imperial Army = Elements of all of the previous three (jack of all trades, masters of none).
imperial guard arent astra militarum they make up a segment of it, stormtroopers are not imperial army they are imperial navy, also first order troopers arent imperial at all, theyre FIRST ORDER. i watched to 2:20 seconds and couldnht even finish because ur video is wrong
Oh no the UNS’s got a Grizzly tank whilst the empire has an At-at Meanwhile the guard rocks up With either a valdor tank hunter or a shadow sword titan hunter or a BANEBLADE😂😂
So out of the 4, Star Trek is my least favorite setting. Do not misunderstand me, I love the setting, but I just like the other settings a bit more. But, even with all that, I'm going to defend Star Trek by pointing out the obvious. Starfleet is not on a war footing, shocking, I know, even in the Dominion war, it just *BARELY* dipped it's toe into militarism and made a few purpose built combat ships, and even those where designed to have interchangeable stations that could be gear towards exploration and science. The army of Starfleet was even geared towards exploration, with minimal actual purpose built combat equipment. It maybe dumb, but Star Trek is overall a significantly more peaceful universe outside the occasiona Klingon raid or Dominion incursion. Contrast this with the other 3, with the exception of the empire, both the UNSC and Imperium are in wars where defeat means extinction, not just for humanity, but likely for all life (40k's Necrons and Tyranids, Halo's rings). Even the Empire needs it's military to justify it's continued existence, and all three dedicated massive portions of their economies to military production. It's comparing 3 countries in wars of g*noc*de to a country that has been at peace for hundreds of years with no known threat or adversary.
@@Michael-x8e7j It was a total combined arms regiment/brigade. After he took Frisia he turned the whole FDF into versions of the Slammers. Read my favorite Hammers novel The Sharp End as it talks about the organization of the FDF.
stormtroopers are so bad idk why they are even being considered, their crappy armor doesnt even protect against rocks and sticks, they never hit anything, canonically a downgrade to their predecessors, and have no special accomplishments to acknowledge, it isn't even close for them, against anyone
Actually, Mudtroopers are the actual Empire’s Infantry, the Storm Troopers are the elite, but tbh, the movies and books don’t care and basically created this missconception.
40k really shouldn't be in the debate unless you're going to compare set numbers of troops. Even then, I'd take the guardsmen any day of the week. A lasgun, affectionately dubbed "flashlight" by the fans, is actually the equivalent of a full auto .308 with a hundredish round magazine on its lowest setting. The snipers and various other specialists will have access to much greater power, albeit with fewer repeat shots. It's a laser that actually sort of works like one, so there's no leading your target. You point it at a target, and a hole appears in it in an un-dodgeable flash. If tou can be taught to load it, arm it, and point it, you can be effective. The only bit of finesse they need is to stop shooting before it damages itself. Thats not saying much though, when its as simple as ceasing fire once it smells, and feels like your weapon is about to melt and/or catch fire. It's like very adult laser tag, except the people holding them are well trained, and have chest protection. Keep in mind, those are the "flashlights." The guard has even more expensive toys, and men trained in their use.
Meh, Covenant plasma weaponry is equal if not more powerful than a lasgun, and this is the simple plasma pistols. Don't overlook another science fictions power.
When it comes to numbers... The Astrum Militarum laughs is excess. several hundred Trillion Strong .. and they are supplemented by local planetary defense forces which are counted separate. and to be fair, Proper fully trained Guardsmen are considered Special Forces in todays standard . Also, Stormtroopers are not regular army. but, in a straight land battle, with zero atmospheric / orbital support.. the Astrum Militarum wins hands down... because that that point, it just becomes a battle of Attrition.
At least you went after the Stormtroopers. Because the UNSC ground forces have something the Guard generally doesn't have well a few things the Imperial Guard doesn't have. 1. An Air Wing including fighters and bombers. Both the UNSC Army and Marine Corps have their own Air/space craft. 2. Access to Nuclear weapons. 3. Prefabricated Fortifications that includes bases that can produce everything they need to hold the line. 4. Automated defensive turrets. 5. Combat drones. Of these the fact that the UNSC Army and Marines can literally drop a 200 megaton nuke on the Imperial Guards head should be the most effective way to fix the Imperial Guards numbers advantage. Yeah the video creator literally skipped over the fact that the UNSC Army and Marine Corps operate both Longsword intercepters/strike fighters and B-65 Short Sword Bombers that can carry more ordinance than a B-1 Lancer can today. Note the modern B-1 Lancer has a carrying capacity of 75,000 lbs of ordinance internally. The UNSC's B-65 Short Sword bomber can carry around 150,000 lbs of bombs. Yeah not a fun time to be on the ground. Also due to the shape of the craft it's more difficult to pick up on sensors such as radar for example. And this is without the UNSC using jammer's and electronic warfare or their XRP12 Combat Support Vehicle (CSV), commonly known as the Gremlin's X23 Non-Nuclear Electromagnetic Pulse Cannon to knockout all of the Imperial Guards electronics . Or that the UNSC doesn't drop XGBU-302 disruption bombs first. Which also knocks out enemy electronics. Before dropping Nukes .
@@John2r1 The Imperium can play those games too, typically via orbital bombardment. They also have their own nukes, they just don't use them on planets they intend to keep. The Guard and the Navy actually communicate, since the Navy cannot take ground and the Guard cannot get anywhere unless they cooperate.
@@crowe6961 Well that's quite a pickle for the Imperial Guard because the UNSC throws around nukes like they are normal ordinance. On the small end the ground forces have things like Fury tactical nukes which are about the size of an over inflated football with a yield of about a megaton. FEBRIS nukes are also used they have a slightly higher yield and both can be detonated either remotely or manually. Up from these nuclear hand grenades we get the HAVOK tactical nukes which are 30 megaton thermonuclear weapons that can come in various configurations including being delivered by ground forces. This is the type of nuke Chief used at the end of Halo 4 to blow up Ur Didact's ship. From there it becomes nukes that are air deliverable and missile deliverable. The UNSC still has the technology to reterraform planets they want after using nukes considering they had to reterraform planets that were glassed by the Covenant post war. Which is far worse than just dropping a few nukes to get rid of a large contingent of enemy troops at some staging area. As to the Imperial Navy being involved . This is about ground forces. And the typical Imperial Navy battlefleet normally consists of between 50 and 75 warships of varying size. UNSC defense fleets can number anywhere from a few dozen to hundreds to a couple thousand warships depending on how important the planet is the the UNSC. If it's one they absolutely want to keep then your looking at multiple fleets in the hundreds of warships and likely at least one of their super carriers showing up. Rather that be the Infinity or the Eternity depends on the time frame and which ship is available . These two aren't the only options the UNSC have the Punic-class supercarriers as well. Which they have been producing since 2490 to present day in the lore. So that large number of super MACs pointed at the Imperial Navy might be a deterrent for 50 to 75 warships showing up with troops. All depends on how important the world is. Because remember the Covenant had the numbers advantage Imperium has and had the tech advantage at the beginning of the Human-Covenant War. And yet the battles for Harvest an Agri world lasted 5 years. Simply because the UNSC kept sending more forces to hold and retake the world. The UNSC ended up winning that one. Halo Wars Captain Cutter said it like this. "Captain's report, February 4th, 2531. Five years, five long years. That's how long it took us to get Harvest back..." At first it was going well...Then setback after setback...Loss after loss... Made what was going to be a quick and decisive win...Into five years of Hell... Of course, that's all Harvest really is today...It's Hell down there, but now it's ours again." So the where the Imperial Guard and Navy are use to being the unstoppable will of the Emperor. The UNSC is used to being the immovable object. For ground forces wise if you ever played Warhammer Fantasy it's like the Imperials vs the Dwarfs . The Imperial Guard obviously being the Imperials. And the UNSC being like the Dwarf's . Stubborn , Battle harden and a literal wall once they get dug into a position. Or for a more 40k reference the UNSC is kind of like the Old Lore Squats when they dig into a position it's going to cost you a hell of a lot to remove them. Basically picture 40k Squats the size of a normal human using ranged weapons like the Tau do. And you have Guardsmen with no other supporting elements involved because their busy at the moment with whatever their doing. Your objective is to clear out these assholes from the planet you want to take from them. Their objective is to murder every last one of you to a man and they have absolutely no rules of engagement. They aren't going to retreat and they have seen these wave tactics the majority of the Guard use hundreds of times before with twice the number of a typical guard deployment. Also their artillery out ranges yours. That's why for the Imperial Guard vs the UNSC ground forces it's the old unstoppable force meets Immovable object. They aren't giving an inch and they are hitting you before you can get into effective range to use any real artillery that isn't going to cost a small fortune and cause damage to your new world your wanting to take. Do you see the Imperial Guards problem ? I do and it's typically what happens when the Imperial Guard is forced to fight on it's own against combined arms forces like the UNSC without Naval support for either side.
Star wars: Naval Infantry Star Trek: Commandos Warhammer 40k: Standing colonial Mechanised Army Halo: Marine Elite Special Forces Its all a matter of manning and function.
Okay, this guy really downplays Star Trek to an insane degree, their weapons have a much longer range than said here which is 750 meters and that is with just the rifle. They also use battle tactics that heavily use transporters so their army will instantly be anywhere on the battlefield. They don't use armor because their weapons shoot through it but their medical tech can fix most combat injuries, which is why the death toll was so low in the Dominion War, most deaths were from space ships. Theres plenty more on just Star Trek that was missed in this video. Bu5 i also have to point out that Stormtroopers are just as powerful as Clone Troopers, that for The Emperor to allow Tarkin to remove the clones he would need a solder that was just as capable man for man. Meaning the Stormtroopers had just as good aim and equipment who's armor is vacuumed sealed and protected against extreme temperatures, where viewed as being just as good as Clone Troopers. Also for how strong Spartan armor is, 22 Spartans did an orbital drop like in the Reach game (which is not canon), and they only had their personal shields to protect themselves. As I recall only 2 Spartains died due to hitting the sides of a cliff. And this took place during the fall of Reach, when their armor is at the weakest for the Covenant War.
@Nutbug why did you contiunously show STORM TROOPERS whenever you spoke about "imperial army trooper"? They are not the same things. You also once again got Warhammer 40,000 numbers wrong again...in Warhammer, Terra alone has quadrillions of people on it (as per Vaults of Terra: The Carrion Throne). There are easily trillions of guardsmen and that isn't counting any of the of specialist forces the Imperium commands and the Lasrifle fires a beam that packs more punch than a 0.50 cal, please do some actual research for your videos.
You know watching warhammer Got me thinking on what a star wars version of a space marine look like and The father of this Space Marine I think Anakin would be a good choice for there being there gen father because his DNA is op and It's something darth sideous would love to Create And it would just be interesting to see And just to see anakin's reaction I actually have my kind of what if sinnero on how thy could happen have Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas Find Anakin Years before He's found in the Phantom Minutes So Anakin would be really really young And he just takes his blood Get the Kaminoans To create these super soldiers but The numbers of these soldiers wouldn't be in the millions I would make them over a hundred thousand There would be the special forces but They actually would be A. Couple years older then fett clons But in reality, all these soldiers soldiers wouldn't be clones they Just a children of Anakin and from eggs from Unknown mothers
Star Trek federation wouldn't stand a chance in a stand up fight against any of the others. Halo Marines would put up a good fight before getting overwhelmed by either Star Wars Imperial army or 40k Astra Militarum. The Imperial army would be a tough nut to crack for the Astra Militarum and would likely take decades, even centuries, to conquer. But eventually they would fall to the might of the God-Emporer of Mankind.
Halo's Marines and Army have air/space craft including Fighters and Bombers. And also have EMP weapons and nukes . Those numbers aren't so bad after the UNSC Marine Corps Air wing drops a few thousand pounds of 200 megaton nukes on them now are they . Also the Imperial Guard is the low gothic words for Astra Militarum which is the High Gothic word for the same organization.
@@John2r1 I like to use High Gothic wherever possible, wouldn't want to be confused with under-hive scum now would I? When I say Imperial army I was referring to the Galactic empire's forces.
@keirwhitwell7831 OK. But that's more like the galactic empire police force lol. They seriously don't have much in the way of practical equipment. And the most recent war they fought was the Clone Wars which lasted like 5 years. The rebellion doesn't really count for much. Since it was more like police work and chasing pirates than an actual war.
As much as I love Star Trek, I always thought the way Star Fleet has been kept up is so stupid. Like I get it, Gene Roddenberry didn’t want Starfleet to be militarized because it would go against what the message of the show is. But cmon how fucking dumb is star fleet command? They always get curb stomped and saved by a mcguffin. “Hey guys should we perhaps have a dedicated force meant for military action? Because crazy shit keeps happening and we always just barely get by the skin of our teeth” and people go NUH UH. I think it kinda is a offense to the message of peaceful exploration and existence. Sometimes to have peace you need to be ready to bring out the big guns and boys and girls to fight to keep that peace.
I just have to say, the choice of picking the UNSC Marines as the main infantry force for this video is strange, considering the Marines are actually a smaller and lighter armed branch, focused on mobility. In lore the Army is the largest branch of the UNSC, having the most soldiers, the most vehicles, armor, bases, ect, and being the primary defenders of UNSC worlds. Halo has a bad habit of showcasing the Marines as the main force for some reason, even when it doesn't make a ton of sense, so I suppose that is why someone not as familiar with Halo would think they are the main branch. Not saying the Army is the main branch, they all have their roles, but the Marines are overrated and overused in the lore a ton. Kinda like Star Wars and the Imperial Army vs the Stormtroopers. Both are the main ground forces that in ground combat do the most of the fighting, yet you pretty much never hear about them sadly. I feel for the sake of ranking in this list, it'd be best to simply use UNICOM for the UNSC instead of using the smaller and lighter armed Marines.
stormtroopers=/=imperial infantry trooper 💀
Most circumstances I’d agree. But if they were clone troopers, different story.
@@LairdErnst Somewhat true yeah. Clones are miles better than storm troopers. That being said though, the few cases of clones versus regular (not remotely close to imperial guard level) organic armies that do exist in star wars are the cases where the most clones died by far in the whole war. Storm troopers are shit but clones from what I can tell aren't much better than normal IRL soldiers in terms of raw combat and tactical prowess. At the end of the day, they were born and trained to kill droids and jedi of which they did great. Not armies of real people, which they have repeatedly shown to only be average at.
UNSC Marine proceeds to show image of UNSC Army soldier😂
@@LairdErnstClone troopers would wipe imperial guardsmen (not all) but in a controlled environment with even numbers. The IG has good weaponry, but the clones have more training and experience. IG troops unless they're veteran have little to no battle experience given their casualty rates. The clones would definitely not bum rush these guys, it'd take strategy (if we exclude Jedi tactics and include hardcore strategy from the perspective of a veteran Clone).
@@yellomellow9481 There are plenty of elite well trained IG units.
Star Trek infantry was a joke until the very recent shows, which only portrayed them as "slightly less worse".
No armour. No helmets. No personal shields. No drones or robotic aides. No vehicles or air support.
It makes no sense that you don't have that unless you're consistently glassing the planets occupied by the enemy.
It's the one part where Star Trek has consistently been very unimaginative and poorly shown, even in otherwise great episodes that show the horrors of war such as on DS9 or BNW. Budget of course played a major part in that so it's understandable to an extent.
In the third Chris Pine movie enemy infantry had shields, armor and rapid fire guns!
@@christiandauz3742
I can't remember playing Elite Force all to well, but from what I remember you were a bit if a badass. Personal shields, variety of weapons, Tech that let you get the drop on enemies... Oh, and calling in strikes from Voyager!!!! like, theres a tank in my way 'get rid if it' levels of precision. With equal numbers, I think they would take this fight. Numbers given, just no chance. They would make the best gurella fighters though.
Yeah, that depends on where you get your imagery. A lot of what they show was constrained by Roddenberry or budgets. The man didn't want pockets on Star Fleet uniforms. However, in certain books and, yes, more recent offerings things are different. As much as I do enjoy Star Trek, Roddenberry had some weird ideas.
@@Alphacheesehunter
Yes. And that's the reason why people shouldn't worship at his altar. He was a visionary for his time, but some of his ideas would've been absolutely ridiculous to modern audiences.
@@Emanon... To be sure. The universe is really enjoyable, though.
"The Legionnaire that scoffs at a lasgun has not charged across an open field against a hundred of them."
More like 100,000.
A hundred? Try 10,000.
@@grif16
Kharn charges multiple Chapters and Regiments at the same time over and over again
He has killed Trillions on his own
@@christiandauz3742 He has also BEEN KILLED BY THEM repeatedly as well. He keeps being respawned though by Khorne.
@@Nempo13
HAHAHAHAHA!!! No
Kharn only died once, during the Siege
The Imperial Guard (Astra Militarum) is assumed to be around 500 trillion. It should be noted that the Imperial Guard are actually (mostly) a elite force used as a mobile force, and they are heavily outnumbered by the Planetary Defence Forces (PDF) which each imperial world must have. To make a comparison, on a Hive world there could be anything from several hundred million PDF forces to several billions, and during a invasion with conscripted forces they can have anything from several billions to a trillion men. Attacking a Imperial world is in such a way not just a question about how many Imperial Guards are defending it, but also all the other forces - the PDF being the largest in all but very few cases.
PDF is irregular force. It depends on planet government, how many soldiers are recruited, how they are equipped and trained. So its basically milita. Of course, we have examples such as Ultramar Auxilia but mostly local forces are not prepared for full-scale long war
are guard elite? i think we know the elite ones better, but they are not necessarily elite
Cadians maybe
@@andrejplyutin2350 PDF forces include void borne defenses, fleets, stations and orbital defenses, PDF regiments (which for all intent and purposes are like the Guard - but kept on site rather than sent away) AND irregular forces like militias. Every system is tasked with having PDF forces but these vary depending on the manpower and technology available in a system. These are however in almost all cases except notable exceptions like Cadia/Krieg/Catachan etc, many times larger than the guard tithes sent away.
Calling forces that have access to entire fleets and every kind of land based force seen in the guard and often also several times larger as just "irregulars" is pretty strange.
@@Luizguilherme-iz9yl In most cases yes. They are in fact a big step up from say PDF forces as these are (unless penal regiments or tithes from back-water/low tech worlds) in most cases career military given the best available resources and tech from their homeworld as part of the tithe. They are not super soldiers, but compared to most they are often veterans and do nothing but train for and wage war.
I do forget about the fact that Stormtroopers are not the rank and file soldiers of the Empire. Those are technically the elites, since we really only seeing them assault rebel bases, or are stationed in places that are incredibly important to the empire, such as the Death Star or the gas refining plant they blew up in Mando. As we saw in Solo, there are countless battles all across the Galaxy, and this isn’t the clone wars anymore. High quality armor is not needed, since the Empire cares even less about lives than the Republic cared for the clones.
Stormtroopers are a joke now but in the old EU stormtrooper armor provided ballistic protection, NPC protection, and could stop lower power blaster pistols.
Imperial guard regiments of the Astra Militarum are not rank and file soldiers. To even be considered to join any guardsmen regiment you have to be the best soldier available from the planets PDF which IS a general forces unit. The only exemption to this rule is Penal Legion units who are literally just death row inmates and are not considered part of the Astra Militarum.
Some regiments are so legendary that the Tempestus Scions (Imperial elite special forces) get sent to those regiments as a segment of their training.
One example of this is the Elysian Guard who are masters of ship to ship boarding actions as well as Grav Chute (jet-pack) warfare [Functionally they're the 40k version of the 101st airborne and 82nd airborne sprinkled in with USMC Force Recon on steroids.]
The biggest problem that 40k has is many people who enjoy the fiction mostly get their knowledge from memes and shitposts instead of the actual novels,
Unlike Starwars and halo's fans who generally have to deal with the parent company shitting on the lore and changing it every 10 months.
I was listening for that as well. He does specify the imperial army ground force and the armor he talks about is specifically what the imperial ground troops use, as seen in Solo and Andor. Chest plate, helmet and goggles which means he wasn’t referring to the Stormtrooper corps. Which is more like a marine corps of the empire. Ship boarding the Tantive IV, expeditionary ground assault on Hoth, and installation security on high value assets seems to be their jobs. Whereas the army troopers have a much more diverse set duties from ground assault, planetary defense, garrison duty, mechanized armor and so on.
@@argentward1 pdf's arent the army of the imperium the the militarum are the rank and file pdf's are basically the coast guard
@crimsonshadow3089 PDFs are predominantly the first and last line of defense for many worlds, at the lowest level they're roaming gangs while on valuable systems they are responsible for the defense of its entire sector, specific examples were the Cadian PDF the Elysian PDF Kriegs PDF and Ultramars Auxillia (Their version of a human PDF)
Also, is it equating anyone to a Coast Guard, which is literally a military branch proving my point further.
Also PDFs are identified as "Primary Military Defense forces of a world or sector"
The ai generated pictures are truly horrible.
AI is the future.
@@rapatacush3real artists > AI “art”
@@aquablue666 wanna know the human artist who finish the work in ten seconds.
You forgot the Baneblade Heavy Tanks...
I was going to say; the Militarum uses a variety of superheavies, and have dedicated anti-titan tanks that would be able to vaporize AT-ATs.
@@astronomybrainiacthey don't need those super heavys for an AT-AT. Just a Devil Dog (Hellhound variant that had its Infernocannon swapped with a Melta Cannon) could do it by driving into the AT's blind spot and blast it's legs off.
Yeah but one thing you boys forget is just how rare baneblades are
@@sercravenmohead3631 that's why I pointed out an alternative that is based on the Chimera IFV chassis
@@Alex-xt1rr Yeah but again, AT-AT’s aren’t alone and from what I can tell they’re used as Siege engines to drive forward backed up by combined arms of smaller tanks/walkers and infantry. I think these would be pretty difficult to flank especially when the Imperial Guard’s preferred tactic is trench warfare.
Man gave the bird the UNSC Army. Holding down Reach until the planet got glassed wasnt enough. Big sad. 😔
The Covvies losing every Ground battle unless they outnumber the UNSC by 20 to 1 be like:
So, basically Tuesday in 40k?
Halo is a great series but UNSC marines and army troopers are basically just modern soldiers. I'd rate modern soldiers above redshirts but that's just because they don't properly apply their military technology.
planet glassed? cute....try fighting as the bloody planet cracks! ARCADIA LITERALLY BROKE BEFORE THE GUARDSMEN DID!!!
The planet broke before they did....oh wait, that's the Cadians.
Imperial guard…. “You will lose, we have more bodies than you have bullets/blaster rounds. YOU WILL LOSE!!!”
Lore inaccurate
@@TheRisingEagle93 “11 Barrels Of Hell!”
@Peter_Turbo4 zeelie sequence:"you hear something?"
@@dillonpeterson66 Throw Dr Who into it and the setting will collapse over the course of an Afternoon.
@Peter_Turbo4 well no shit it's dr who.
The Imperial Guard can fight in any war scenario, never gives up and also has heavy weapons, cannons, plasma and much more. True that such weapons are one in twenty or thirty soldiers, but when you have the numbers, they are still billions of weapons of various kinds, not just lasgun. There are quotes of several trillions of new guards trained and sent each have. not to mention the forces already on the various planets and fronts. So I give victory to the valiant men and women of the Imperium.
Cadia Stands, not just in words but because there were so many cadians fighting around in the Imperium the destruction of their planet was not critical and they were able to restart their civilization.
Just as the God Emperor intended
They loose BAD to starstrek
@@dillonpeterson66 I agree that startrek has better weapons but the Imperial guard takes the W bro, they have way more bodies then Startrek. If we say that startrek only had 250k soldier and we say that the Imperial Guard has 1 billion units (which there are estimated to be trillions of guardsmen in total) it is 1 startrek trooper to 4 thousand Imperial guards. I don’t think you would want to be in the situation where there are 4 thousand units charging. That and even though lasguns have less range then a phaser, they still have the capability to blow off limbs with ease. He also didn’t go over this but they also have access to things called Longlass’s which are basically sniper versions of a lasgun.
@mr.savagemustache8098 I'm aware of both the lasgun can blow off limbs but the phaser can turn you to atoms.
The Imperial Guard even if they had no armor, support or weapons would drown all the other forces in Imperial blood before they even noticed the losses taken. I personally think the UNSC is a better military but they'd have no chance against the suicidal tidal wave of Imerial incompetence.
It depends on the story you are reading. The 597th Valhallan from the Cain novels are shown to be insanely competent.
@@MasterFancyPantsValhallans are not your average guard. Regiments like the cadians and kriegsman are elite
The guard aren't incompetent, for the most part. The majority of planets follow the cadian standards for recruitment and that states that only the top 10%-20% of PDF may be considered acceptable for guard recruitment and training. This can change wildly in terms of end of training skill level, but it does assure that a guard regiment consists of a planets best soldiers with the best quality gear that can be sustainably provided to them.
Planetary governors are rare to fuck with the quality of their guard export, since it is one of the few things they can do that would mean an eventually but reasonably assured of a horrific culling of them and their entire bloodline if they did. 90% of the campaigns they are apart of are nothing like the battles we usually see them in which would be the 1000+ 10% of apocalyptic battles involving huge deployments of millions of guard supporting millions to trillions of PDF forces with other special factions like astartes, sisters of battle and various other imperial factions included
90% of the time they do win with little to no intervention from superior factions like space marines, with rarely needing to resort to the insane tactics they use those 10% insane circumstances and the times when they do start up the meatgrinder.... it's most often using the PDF ground forces that got conscripted into guard conscripts under Imperial guard command... because why use your own elite guys from your own culture when there are a billion of these other guys who worship the emperor weirdly (not like us) just right there lol
I do agree that the UNSC does run better overall but that's largely because of their superior FTL and the fact the UNSC at the height of it's power was like not even a 1/10th the size of pre-heresy ultramar, let alone the imperium. That's like comparing a pond to the ocean.
*tldr*: The guard are normally very very good and would win due to being very good, not needing to result to sheer numbers to defeat UNSC military ground forces.
@@mastershangchi3410 nice to see someone saying it: the IG are an elite army and very capable of what they do. it is just that most stories from 40k are bolter porn, where SM units are deployed. for that to happen, the IG already faces overwhelming odds, so they obviously die in troves to make the SM look better
on tabletop, they have to fight vs the strongest stuff the enemy can muster, so they are again a horde army. but in reality, they regulary just fight relativly normal troops, where the lasgun and flakarmor is more than enough.
reminds me of the whovian, who was angry at me because I said IG can beat the dalek empire
The Marines is not the main Army in halo they just get all the press from Bungie and 343, the Army is still the main land force of the UNSC,although they have been neglected and watered down in game they still are the main fighting force. A more accurate comparison will be to add factions from CD Advance Warfare/Infinite Warfare Starcraft Mass Effect Planetside Killzone Section 8 Starship Troppers (Invasion Universe) Gears of War Fallout and Star Citizen
So true. Marines are the few and the proud.
Warhammer is literally that one kid who makes rules that benefit himself or gives himself the most overpowered weapons
The Imperium isn't even winning!
God Emperor: …but… but the other guys are also making up just as crazy numbers and rules to help them why can’t I do it?!
Chaos Gods: ah this war was fun for those few dozen planets… anyways lemme go back to my pocket dimension within a larger chaos dimension that humans lose their mind if they enter shielded
AVE IMPERATOR
That's the point of 40k. Everything is overpowered that within the universe everything is "balanced" per say. That's why warhammer will always stomp any other universe, because every aspect is insanely over the top compared to other franchises
@@legoguy5944 that is also why I love it.
Star trek has the best starships and the worst infantry as they mostly dont need it. But when they do, their infantry is often equipped with the most advance tech.
They hardly have the best starships. They're tiny compared to all the others. And design-wise they just look terrible.
@@voomvoom4522 Yeah - structural integrity? What's that?
@@voomvoom4522
size doesn't matter if you have the best tech
@@congnghequansuvn474 only in the comfort department. There hyperdrives are terrible, they have barely any armor, their weapons are mid, and the only protection their crew has is a cloth uniform.
@@congnghequansuvn474 My guy, their ships are basically all cruise ships that go to shit the moment something they weren't prepared for happens
I feel like the Star Trek forces were just tacked on and really just dont stack up. Especially when a behemoth like 40k is involved. A better pick to compare would have been something like the Terran Dominion's military from Starcraft or the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers.
One thing you discounted from Starfleet is that their phasers are regenerative, meaning they have near-limitless ammunition to fire. If they have starship support, then they can have an area swept with phasers and photon torpedoes and either vaporize or stun entire armies.
So do the las guns from 40K in legit both things you brought up the power pack can be recharged by literally putting it in a fire and Startrek isn’t special for glassing worlds 40K is great at doing that and at providing orbital bombardment
Startrek didnt even belong in this video lol. Starcraft Marines or Starship Troopers would have been a way better fit
Yeah the army is Star Trek is more of a glorified defense force.
Star Trek doesn’t actually utilize infantry in the same way as other franchises; employing advanced medical technology, sensor equipment, and weaponry capable of vaporizing nearly anything. Startrek troops have been known to use ballistic shields, hologram technology, force fields, cloaking, beaming, and heavy artillery as parts of their operations. Star Trek is severely lowballed in my opinion.
still lacks the numbers compared to everyone else tho.
Hell the IoM would shit all over Star Trek both in the void and on the ground due to numbers alone. Their tech. is esoteric and complex enough to drive any Starfleet engineer mad especially once they hear about things like machine spirits ..... and then learning said machine spirits are actually a real thing .... yea the insanity inducing kind of mad.
Even the fairly lackluster militaries of Mass Effect would absolutely Cleveland steamer the Star Trek forces.
@Phenixtri it isn't really that good of an argument if all you can say is numbers. 40k win in numbers because many things they once have are either hard to make in scale or pure impossibility.
@@MortabluntScientists in Star Trek are creating planets from scratch, and some random dude with emotional issues destroyed an entire solar system by blowing up a star with a homemade missile. Sisko sent a few torpedoes down to make a planet's atmosphere toxic to humans, _and only humans._ Starfleet was like "Well, we can't _legally_ make a cloaking device, but what if we made a ship that can fly through planets?"
Star Trek is hilariously ahead of the rest on scientific levels. The only place it's behind is ftl speeds, where Stargate has a solid win.
I enjoy Halo for its more grounded approach. Between humanity still struggling with FTL travel, their military bearing some semblance of familiarity to what we have today, being on the verge of complete and utter breakdown with the outer colonies, their weaponry still utilizing projectiles. It just helps immerse me further into the franchise more so than any other scifi universe.
I like the Warhammer and Halo Marine designs. They look awesome!
14:40 in the Star Trek TOS Episode Arena were mortars introduced as part of Federation Ground Forces Armament moreover for high intensity operations they could be equiped with personal force fields (ST DS9 Homefront)
btw in ST DS9 Rocks and Shoals phaser rifles were used at ranges of 200 to 300 meters and these phaser rifles were stanard issue for Federation Ground Forces ( ST DS9 The Siege of AR855)
Please don't confuse Federation Ground Forces with Starfleet Security
I think one thing missed here is the attitude and way they are raised. So like Cadians, Catachan or Vahallans and so forth are raised as well. I mean Death Corps of Krieg want to die in service of the Emperor. Cadians are very much raised to fight in the military. That type of intangible does matter.
Realistically, if the UNSC had the numbers that the Imperium or the Empire have, they would probably win. Quality over quantity goes a long way
Thats definitely a debatable statement because your suggestion is that 40K humanity doesn’t have quality the imperial guard is the like third level formation that humanity has in that universe
From best to worst it goes
Custodies
Adeptus Astartes
Sisters of battle
Elite guard formations (IE the black, the shock troopers and the Mortien iron guard)
Standard guard formations (cadiens and the death corps of krieg)
PDF
Peinel legion
To suggest that it isn’t quality is insane the shear variation of heavy and anti armor weapons at the infantry level that is being carried by the guard is batshit crazy the best weapons for anti armor carried by the UNSC might be lucky the take off the paint from a leman Russ MBT much less some of the bigger tanks they have that’s not even me going into the sheer ludicrous amount of armor and armor variety they have and artillery
I feel you may have forgotten the unsc's use of the odst's who are human troops and could maybe tip the scales in the unsc's favor 🤔
Technical the Astra Militarum's airforce, is a branch of the Imperial Navy, and any ground plane are technically under the PDF.
_Emphasis on technically._ The planetary aircraft flyboys are under the jurisdiction of the Guard Commissariat while on-planet, so they're really 'Navy in name only' at that point.
"Astra Mili-what? This is the Guard, son..." :P
The official name is Astra Millitarum (Latin for Astral Military). Imperial Guard is just a moniker often used by other branches of the Imperium of Man (and other races) to distinguish them from the rest
IRL Marines: RAA!!
any Sci-Fi space marine: "oh gawd fucking HELP ME!!!"
Why do these lists always ignore the uscm?
The main ground force of UNSC in Halo , was the Army, the Marines was the main Navy ground strike force, like in modern day US Marines
As I see it, there isn't a single facet of war that any other of these militaries can even compare to the Guard in. To start, the guard by far has the numerical advantage in all capacities, whether it be in infantry or armor. The tanks deployed by the Guard are another big point in their skills, with Baneblades and really any other of their larger tanks being far superior to anything the UNSC or the Storm Troopers could field. The guard have amazing air craft, unbeatable artillery, and not even to mention their auxiliaries (namely Knights) and other components (Ogryns and Tempestus Scions to name a few). And if we were to say bring in the other military branches that some of these factions have like the Imperial Navy and Sith from Starwars, the Spartans and UNSC Navy from Halo, the Star Trek Navy (I don't know the name, srry), and then all of the other Imperium Military Branches (Admech, Astartes, Sisters of Battle), then the battle goes from tilted towards the Militarum to a snow ball's chance in hell that any other faction comes close to beating the Imperium.
Sorry if that was hard to read or too critical, but that's how I see it
Edit: I also noticed that a lot of the other factions got to be compared with their fleets, in which case the Imperium would stomp the other factions even harder thanks to their obscenely powerful star craft.
I once read an old Trek tech manual that said on max settings, a standard issue hand phaser could vaporize a building. Problem with Trek is they are only as powerful as the plot calls for. They could probably field troops with personal shields and building vaporizing phasers but instead you got redshirts with phaser rifles on narrow beam settings.
I kind of have to give it to the Empire for vehicles. Though the UNSC is quickly catching up with Mantis and the Cyclops. Give them some more time to reverse engineer Forerunner tech and they'll have all kinds of stuff that'll scare the other armies.
Great video! Subscribed. But how can you skip the Baneblade series of tanks when discussing the Guard's vehicles?
I love 40K I really do but the baneblade just isn’t that common look at the war for vraks for example that was several death corps formations and they only brought a handful of them
You pulled me into this nerd argument, dang it.
I have no idea how the 40K game gets marks for its artillery and air support fighters, when it is also a highly computer phobic setting.
And I remember guessing inches and rolling scatter dice at battlefield distances of a sniper rifle shot.
I mean, sheesh, the Imperial Guard has one radio per squad?
Give 40K "It's magically delicious" power guns, but remember their logistics and communication and targeting are all, at the very best, at World War II levels.
The Mechanicus that makes and maintains all the tech while basically being its own quasi-empire, has pretty 21st Century battle management systems, assorted techno-BS shenanigans, and very, very fancy targeting, while better-equipped Imperial Guard regiments have every single soldier issued a comm-bead for internal squad communication. There's just not much uniformity. They also have heavy MLRS systems firing Deathstrike missiles, which are essentially mini-nukes minus the severe ionizing radiation or fallout. That, plus sheer volume of fire.
@@crowe6961 didn't know about that!
Anyone have the source for the art at 4:20? It goes hard as fuck. I especially dig all the little details like the different ways they hold their helmets, blasters, or sling their kit (I really like the incorporation of the oft seen garrison cover that some of them sport). They all look unique, which goes against the common idea of what a stormtrooper is supposed to look like, but it also looks super realistic, like their CO is just forming them up after some fuck-off patrol or at a motor-pool or something.
you got one thing wrong, stormtrooper armor is a material called plasteel, a ceramic mix of metals and plastics, allowing for protection of even up to 50 cal bullets, albeit a 50 cal is still going to crack the armor and break the troopers ribs but will still keep him alive.
Dude I just realized the 4 factions here embody the 4 land doctrine paths for hearts of iron.
The guardsman and it’s not even close. Las guns are infinite ammo Spartan lasers if you really want to get technical that can be adjusted to fire weaker or stronger beams and can be recharged by the sun. They can also over lock the magazines of the las gun to make a makeshift grenade. Did I also mention there are TRILLIONS OF THEM
Well, in an attrition war you gotta hand it to the imperium. Which, probably just should win, because in a toe to toe of any of these, they’d win, no matter how many lives were wasted along the way. And while the average trooper could have just been handed a lasgun and told to go die for the emperor, their elite regiments are as elite as any of these. And they all are accustomed to handling a wide range of horrors.
The empire is a smaller, worse equipped, worse armored, more incompetent (with no firing skill) version of the imperium. Maybe some dark troopers and supercommandos are a bit better. But still not anything capable of changing the outcome.
The UNSC is up there when it comes to training and attempt to preserve life. If you factor in spartans (but ignore space marines from earlier), then maybe in a 1:1 fight these guys would win out. But the imperium has billions for every UNSC trooper. And an ODST is pretty comparable to an elysian drop trooper.
Star trek, aside from some cheeky teleportation, just isn’t kitted out for frontline attritional combat. They lose. They lose big. Best thing they can do is avoid the fight entirely.
I didn't even know star trek had infantry.
“ALL GUARDSMEN, *FOLLOW ME TO GLORY!”*
17:46 "Century spanning attrition warfare" It's absolutely disproportionate crazy statements like this what makes 40k what it is.
Storm trooper armor needs AP ammo or explosive ammo.
Or some blind guy with a fucking stick
I would love to see a one-on-one between a Spartan and a clone Commando
The chief punched a missile out of the sky once. A clone commando couldn't kill a old mandalorian with a machete.
Whenever we have this kinda arguement, I always say look at the enemies they are fighting and if they are still expanding:
Star Wars: Rebels and they lost despite superior weapons and numbers
Star Trek: largely unopposed expect for the Klingon (initially) and the Borg, even then they had trouble winning against the Klingons leading to an alliance
Halo: constantly running and losing against the Covenant, and thankfully the infighting between the Elites and Brutes gave the UNSC a chance to push back
WH40k: Brutal Orks tides, ancient Eldar (but occasionally allied with them), sadistic Dark Eldar, Tyranids mega swarms, technologically superior T'au, literal Chaos demons from hell, elridtch horrors of Necrons. And the Imperium of Man is still expanding and reclaiming entire solar systems from the territories they lost from the Horus Heresy and the Fall of Cadia.
So you tell me which army would win in a fight 😂
Halo vs warhammer is the only true comparison here
Star Fleet, if they have a ship in orbit or a base on the ground transporters make for very accurate artillery support.
Unfortunately most of the franchises writers have no military experience combined with the imagination that makes transporters and replicators incredibly dangerous weapon systems.
The most misconception about Astra Militarum or Imperial Guard is Imperial Guard is entirely made out of force conscript from Imperial Citizen, While some occasion happeneds (Occasion meaning Trillions being alone here), Nearly almost all Imperial Guard or Guardsman Regiment are made out of Elite infantry force from their recruitment of Each Planetary,Sectoral or System Defense Force, The Guardsman have ridicilous of this Quintillion of being that considered as Heavy and Elite Infantry force is because Imperium is so fucking unimaginably gargantuan, There could be Milions or hell Bilions of Regiments and remember, Guard regiment dont have requirement "Minimum and Maximum force", One Regiment can have Bilions of Guardsman alone, On the Warzone region, Entire star system or sector can be converted into super-multi stellar military installation where its entire system planet,orbital yard,satellite population subjected into War Machine production or Imperial Guard and Navy.
And remember, By meaning extremely diverse not only culture, but depend how the origin backdoor of its regiment are, The Harsh environtment but advanced tech can lead a Guard regiment where its entire guardsman is semi modified or clone genetically. A Backworld where it may have star trek advancement with semi digitalized or semi Holy Omnissiah (Probably mini-AI) can made entire guard is offshoot of cyberskeleton and advanced force
Can we do this but with the IMC from Titanfall?
I’m a die hard Star Wars fan but I gotta give it to those Warhammer boys. I’ve read dark stuff on Star Wars but Warhammer lore is literally built around that stuff, it essentially made itself one of the huge contributors to the “Grimdark” setting.
Thing is being Grimdark is a liability in a universe stand off, since it makes all the competitors more socially acceptable alternatives to joining the Tau, which is the big X Factor this video and most comparisons that proport "nah 40k wins" forget.
Honestly universe vs universe or person vs person feels a little overdone but understandable for like decades now, but im surprised despite being sci-fi, noone ever did like a technology vs technology kind of thing, im sure the guys from 40k universe would really really love a lot of things from the guys at star trek, i mean im standing on the firm belief that star trek and dune has the most powerful basic infantry weapons.
Hello
Hello 👋
The 40K Imperial Guard literally has TRILLIONS of personal to call upon. And unlike most sci-fi armies. The Guard are willing and able to sacrifice millions to win battles.
bro the ai art... why there's so much art for all these factions readily available that doesn't look like a lsd nightmare
Because some random "artist" would cry because they are using their shit.
Out of them, 40k's the most realistic, & i'm standing on that.
what? how is 40k more realistic then Halo?
@@CanadianLegionaire Depends on the regiment. Halo is based on our modern NATO style armies. There are regiments that would be more like them and there are regiments that are complete oposite. I will not count penal legions but cadians, Steel legion and others would be quite modern style of army. Krieg are seen by modern standards outdated but their doctrine seems to be quite valid in the last few years. Tempestus scions and elysians are also modern troops.
Yes you have armies that are outdated or suitable to open field war. Catachans and Armagedons Orc hunters are both querila regiments. To sumarise, Halo is closest to the moders doctrine currently used by NATO. Realisticly you are not conquering planet like modern earth in total war with less then 50+ million soldiers (this includes support personal). Yes modern armies are small but they count on Turning their standard personal into officers in case of proper war to rapidly boost their numbers. Most universes struggle with numbers.
realistic??? ahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha thats a good one, nice joke pal
@@hordynighthawk325 you know that wh is not written to be taken literally right?? unreliable narrative is the base of wh, because of that rule is that exist many contradictions, inconsistencies and many more errors than most of the fictional universes do not have.
@@hordynighthawk325 You're right that Halo is based more on our modern NATO doctrines. Its clear that, for the UNSC marine corps at least, maneuver warfare is the name of the game. The thing is though, the UNSC military wasn't used to invade worlds. During the human-covenant war it was constantly on the defensive. That's not to say it didn't go on the offensive. For example, early during the battle of Reach, the UNSC launched major offensive in an attempt to wipe out the covenant presence on Reach. However, that offensive was part of a wider defensive campaign.
As for planetary campaigns, when it comes to realism all settings struggle with this because they always either forget or simply don't show the most important part. Logistics. Doesn't matter if you have 50 million soldiers or 500 million. If you don't have the supply lines to keep those troops fed, to make sure they have a steady supply of ammo (which disappears insanely fast), spare parts and vehicles etc. You're campaign is doomed to fail.
The only part that I would say 40k has over Halo in the realism department is the numbers used to invade a populated world. Like stated previously however, the UNSC wasn't sending invasion fleets to land on Covenant planets to conquer and hold them. Other then that Halo is far more realistic then 40k.
You forgot the mobile infantry
Aside from the countless of numbers and insane weapons of the 40k universe, which is mainly to go compete batshit overboard compared to all other stories, don’t forget the mindset of the Imperium when it comes to war. A quote like “Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. Those who understand know that you have no right to let them live." sums it all up why 40k beats any other setting.
If you want to see a universe that makes 40K look lame, look up "The Culture" by Iain Banks. Their personal hand weapons have outputs in the kiloton range, and technology that makes Star Trek seem primitive. As one of the ship AIs says, "The only impact of organics in a space battle is to make the colors of the explosions slightly different."
Halo's high-ends can contest with War in Heaven factions. The Culture, Xeelee, and many other settings can comfortably overwhelm Warhammer 40k's galaxy. Warhammer's tech isn't as impressive as people make it out to be.
Let’s be honest. If the 40K universe is as large as it is implied to be, then the number of Guardsmen would easily be in the quadrillions.
The number of Guardsmen is stated in lore to be in the untold billions to Trillions. Basically not everyone is a soldier in any of these settings.
In Halo the only reason the UNSC got the military up to over 25 billion was that they drafted everyone they could into the fight to save humanities ass.
With that said if we had an accurate population number to work with for the entirety of the Imperium's million worlds then we could figure out the number of troops they would have using real world military as the base percentage.
For example if we said that the Imperium has 100 Quadrillion citizens and that 0.1% are active in the Imperial Guard alone. We would have 100,000,000,000,000 or in words ... 100 Trillion Imperial Guardsmen. This is not counting outer military forces of the Imperium. If this maybe 10% would be officers , 40% NCOs and the remaining 50% being the grunts that get the job done. This means the command staff would consist of 10 trillion officers across the entire Imperial Guard. The NCO corps would be 40 trillion strong and of course the hands that get shit done would be at 50 Trillion strong.
This for the Imperium makes a lot of sense because of how spread out everything is and the fact that billions die in the Imperial Guard daily and Billions more are recruited to take their place. Again this is just the Imperial Guard. It isn't counting the Navy or the Mechanicus or any other forces that would realistically be involved in any major deployment of the Imperial Guard.
@@Fuzz32 We do know that Trillions of citizens join the Guard every year.
Honestly as far as ground militaries go I'd rank them as following.
1# Imperial Guard
2# Imperial Army ( disney canon )
3# USNC
4# Starfleet
or
1# Imperial Army ( EU canon )
2# Imperial Guard
3# USNC
4# Starfleet
idc how technologyically advance the opposing infantry is the imperial guard is the true underdog that show the strength of humanity to run in the feild with fucking bayonets no other scifi universe dose that except clone troopers but they are mostly lead by some incompitent jedi if its not a named character
Yes, this is the kind of massive brain discussion that led russian command to conclude they'd be in Kyiv in 3 days.
And don't forget
Lasgun from 40k >>>>> Standard Weapon from Halo Startrek & Starwars
Insanely good for logistic, literally infinite ammo, you can recharge it with sunlight, can be used for grenade, output can be adjusted, no recoil, standard lasgun is enough to punch a hole through an unarmored adult human, the community meme it as flashlight since their enemy is literally satan armored with a metal thicker than a tank and some has a forcefield
Standard ? You do realize that every weapon in Halo's Infantry arsenal is considered standard issue for whatever purpose. Also the UNSC Marines and Army have air wings that include fighters and bombers. Which can be used to drop Nukes on the Imperial Guard. So Nuke >>>>>>> Lasgun wielding Guardsmen.
Also for ground weapons the UNSC Marine and Army snipers can use the M99A2S3 Stanchion Gauss rifle and blow the Guardsmen apart from 4.9 miles away. Or any other railgun or gauss based weapon. The ARC-920 Railgun is standard issue. Or maybe the Spartan Laser being used against infantry and armor. Or how about a missile launcher they have those as well. The M57 Pilum variant Ad Victorium fires three laser-guided missiles in a "V" formation, all equipped with an airburst proximity fuse. The operator can use smart scope in order to guide the missiles with the reticle.
Or use the missiles with thermobaric filters that literally suck the air out of where the Guardsmen are taking cover killing all of them inside.
Yeah the UNSC Marines and Army have a whole lot of options as well.
@@John2r1 Oh so we want to use the whole arsenal for comparison is that it?
You want to go there really? You compare a tiny nuke in 40k settings? Really now?
Okay then imma just say this then, 1 imperial navy ship with deranged inquisitor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Entire UNSC + and its colonies
You want nuke? 1 imperial navy ships had thousands of them laying around and they had millions of ship ready to jump your planet
Oh nuke is too tame for your small number UNSC fighter? alright let's try Cyclonic Torpedo, Magna Torpedo, Virus Bomb, Atmospheric incinerator torpedo, Modalis Atmospheric Missile
Let's see those spartans of yours living without oxygen or any atmosphere + no life supports
You want to compare the whole weapon arsenal? what an idiot
One thing I wished this video had taken into account. Are the years in which these organizations exist.
This is why Starfleet needs a dedicated Marine Corps. Even if you don’t have a war with the Dominion or the Klingons coming up every decade, having a dedicated ground force that can be assigned to exploration ships as an escort for the senior bridge staff (which apparently has to go on all the missions) so that they have an “adequate” security element. And if they’re not required to gear up for a mission they can double as security augmentees. Search and rescue, expeditionary security, prisoner escorts, anti-boarders, anti-piracy would all be perfect for a marine force on the boarders of federation space, and would keep a ground force experienced for the next war.
As much as I love the Imperial army from Star Wars I think you've actually overestimated their effectiveness, Leman Russes would run circles around them with ease and a good shot from the Battle Cannon would probably destory an AT-AT let alone any Melta weapon which would turn any Imperial armour into swiss cheese with ease, hell if it was a Stormblade Super Heavy tank it would probably be able to solo an entire battlion of AT-AT's single handed seeing as it's made to counter Titans, just cause you discounted Titans doesn't mean you've really taken Titan level firepower from the Guard.
15:18 baneblade say hello
I think, Halo Marines are lower tier as the Rebels, idk about the star trek one but I know a lot IG, it depends of what regiment so lets cut the chase and go full deep with the best of them all.
I think:
1st position would Imperial Guard of the regiment that works with the Custodians and Sisters of Silence "Lucifer Blacks" wich are literaly above human while still being human.
2nd would be Star Trek soldier I think just becuase of tech, idk much of them but I know they tend to go in the OP direction
3rd would be ODSTs cuz helljumpers are extremely resiliant as competent in surviving the ones that are above him.
4th would be Rebels cuz they are just Rebels, Jedi or Clonetroopers (post shenanigans) dont count cuz they are from another faction that joined the Rebels.
to be fair, comparing warhammer 40k with the things in any other setting is unfair to the other setting - warhammer looks at settings whose insanity maxes at 10, then looks at those breaking the barrier and decides to take it to at least 13.
Id have to go between the Imperial guard or Imperial stormtroopers
starwars empire 1.5M troopers X Sector, meanwhile soviet union 22M~
Meanwhile the Imperial Guard untold billions per day high end trillions of troops at any given time.
UNSC Marine Corps over 6.7 Million . UNSC Army over 2.2 Billion troops at the end of nearly 30 years of war that cost the UNSC 23 Billion troops and who knows how many civilians actually died. Total military size for ground forces roughly 25,206,750,000 give or take over the course of the nearly 3 decades of war.
Yeah the Galactic Empires forces are the ones outnumbered here. To the shock of most people who don't realize that just because you have a population in the quadrillions doesn't mean those people are going to all wake up one day and join the military. The UNSC got these kinds of numbers by drafting every able bodied man and woman and on occasions children ie Spartan 2 and 3 programs to fight the war.
Star Trek do have rifles. They are seen few times throughout the shows bu they are there. Some of the few times we see them is in the dominion war. So you are basically making Star Trek fight with their side weapons rather than with their primaries.
Starfleet = Most technologically advanced
Astra Militarum = Toughest and highest in quantity
UNSC = Most professional and tactically sound.
Imperial Army = Elements of all of the previous three (jack of all trades, masters of none).
None of these sci-fi warriors hold a candle to Lord Frieza's army. They can fly and their weapons can penetrate Gods.
imperial guard arent astra militarum they make up a segment of it, stormtroopers are not imperial army they are imperial navy, also first order troopers arent imperial at all, theyre FIRST ORDER. i watched to 2:20 seconds and couldnht even finish because ur video is wrong
Oh no the UNS’s got a Grizzly tank whilst the empire has an At-at
Meanwhile the guard rocks up
With either a valdor tank hunter or a shadow sword titan hunter or a BANEBLADE😂😂
So out of the 4, Star Trek is my least favorite setting. Do not misunderstand me, I love the setting, but I just like the other settings a bit more.
But, even with all that, I'm going to defend Star Trek by pointing out the obvious. Starfleet is not on a war footing, shocking, I know, even in the Dominion war, it just *BARELY* dipped it's toe into militarism and made a few purpose built combat ships, and even those where designed to have interchangeable stations that could be gear towards exploration and science. The army of Starfleet was even geared towards exploration, with minimal actual purpose built combat equipment. It maybe dumb, but Star Trek is overall a significantly more peaceful universe outside the occasiona Klingon raid or Dominion incursion.
Contrast this with the other 3, with the exception of the empire, both the UNSC and Imperium are in wars where defeat means extinction, not just for humanity, but likely for all life (40k's Necrons and Tyranids, Halo's rings). Even the Empire needs it's military to justify it's continued existence, and all three dedicated massive portions of their economies to military production. It's comparing 3 countries in wars of g*noc*de to a country that has been at peace for hundreds of years with no known threat or adversary.
Astra militarum will win by blocking enemy barrel with their forehead,Their Numbers are more larger than any Ammo supplies you will get
wait in the clone wars there where only 20 sector armies in the clone wars.
man i love scifi
It would be between the empire and war hammer their numbers alone are galaxy wide
Hammers Slammers infantry. Powerguns and hoversleds. Backed up by combat cars and hovertanks armed with larger powerguns.
A fellow Hammers Slammers enjoyer, nice
They had an infantry section didn't they as well as mobile artillery if I recall
@@Michael-x8e7j It was a total combined arms regiment/brigade.
After he took Frisia he turned the whole FDF into versions of the Slammers. Read my favorite Hammers novel The Sharp End as it talks about the organization of the FDF.
stormtroopers are so bad idk why they are even being considered, their crappy armor doesnt even protect against rocks and sticks, they never hit anything, canonically a downgrade to their predecessors, and have no special accomplishments to acknowledge, it isn't even close for them, against anyone
40K > Halo > Star Wars > Star Trek.
From best standard military to worst.
Actually, Mudtroopers are the actual Empire’s Infantry, the Storm Troopers are the elite, but tbh, the movies and books don’t care and basically created this missconception.
40k really shouldn't be in the debate unless you're going to compare set numbers of troops. Even then, I'd take the guardsmen any day of the week. A lasgun, affectionately dubbed "flashlight" by the fans, is actually the equivalent of a full auto .308 with a hundredish round magazine on its lowest setting. The snipers and various other specialists will have access to much greater power, albeit with fewer repeat shots. It's a laser that actually sort of works like one, so there's no leading your target. You point it at a target, and a hole appears in it in an un-dodgeable flash. If tou can be taught to load it, arm it, and point it, you can be effective. The only bit of finesse they need is to stop shooting before it damages itself. Thats not saying much though, when its as simple as ceasing fire once it smells, and feels like your weapon is about to melt and/or catch fire. It's like very adult laser tag, except the people holding them are well trained, and have chest protection. Keep in mind, those are the "flashlights." The guard has even more expensive toys, and men trained in their use.
Meh, Covenant plasma weaponry is equal if not more powerful than a lasgun, and this is the simple plasma pistols. Don't overlook another science fictions power.
7.62x51 effective range 300 meters 😂😂😂. Try again that round is effective out to 1200 meters
14:58 - So AT-AT is better than a Titan? I highly doubt so ;-)
lmao lasgun have penetration of 50cal. yes it can, but only in huge energy consume mod, not in normal mod, and it cause damage to weapon
When it comes to numbers... The Astrum Militarum laughs is excess. several hundred Trillion Strong .. and they are supplemented by local planetary defense forces which are counted separate. and to be fair, Proper fully trained Guardsmen are considered Special Forces in todays standard . Also, Stormtroopers are not regular army. but, in a straight land battle, with zero atmospheric / orbital support.. the Astrum Militarum wins hands down... because that that point, it just becomes a battle of Attrition.
At least you went after the Stormtroopers. Because the UNSC ground forces have something the Guard generally doesn't have well a few things the Imperial Guard doesn't have.
1. An Air Wing including fighters and bombers. Both the UNSC Army and Marine Corps have their own Air/space craft.
2. Access to Nuclear weapons.
3. Prefabricated Fortifications that includes bases that can produce everything they need to hold the line.
4. Automated defensive turrets.
5. Combat drones.
Of these the fact that the UNSC Army and Marines can literally drop a 200 megaton nuke on the Imperial Guards head should be the most effective way to fix the Imperial Guards numbers advantage.
Yeah the video creator literally skipped over the fact that the UNSC Army and Marine Corps operate both Longsword intercepters/strike fighters and B-65 Short Sword Bombers that can carry more ordinance than a B-1 Lancer can today. Note the modern B-1 Lancer has a carrying capacity of 75,000 lbs of ordinance internally.
The UNSC's B-65 Short Sword bomber can carry around 150,000 lbs of bombs. Yeah not a fun time to be on the ground. Also due to the shape of the craft it's more difficult to pick up on sensors such as radar for example. And this is without the UNSC using jammer's and electronic warfare or their XRP12 Combat Support Vehicle (CSV), commonly known as the Gremlin's X23 Non-Nuclear Electromagnetic Pulse Cannon to knockout all of the Imperial Guards electronics .
Or that the UNSC doesn't drop XGBU-302 disruption bombs first. Which also knocks out enemy electronics. Before dropping Nukes .
@@John2r1 The Imperium can play those games too, typically via orbital bombardment. They also have their own nukes, they just don't use them on planets they intend to keep. The Guard and the Navy actually communicate, since the Navy cannot take ground and the Guard cannot get anywhere unless they cooperate.
@@crowe6961 Well that's quite a pickle for the Imperial Guard because the UNSC throws around nukes like they are normal ordinance. On the small end the ground forces have things like Fury tactical nukes which are about the size of an over inflated football with a yield of about a megaton. FEBRIS nukes are also used they have a slightly higher yield and both can be detonated either remotely or manually.
Up from these nuclear hand grenades we get the HAVOK tactical nukes which are 30 megaton thermonuclear weapons that can come in various configurations including being delivered by ground forces. This is the type of nuke Chief used at the end of Halo 4 to blow up Ur Didact's ship.
From there it becomes nukes that are air deliverable and missile deliverable.
The UNSC still has the technology to reterraform planets they want after using nukes considering they had to reterraform planets that were glassed by the Covenant post war. Which is far worse than just dropping a few nukes to get rid of a large contingent of enemy troops at some staging area.
As to the Imperial Navy being involved . This is about ground forces. And the typical Imperial Navy battlefleet normally consists of between 50 and 75 warships of varying size.
UNSC defense fleets can number anywhere from a few dozen to hundreds to a couple thousand warships depending on how important the planet is the the UNSC. If it's one they absolutely want to keep then your looking at multiple fleets in the hundreds of warships and likely at least one of their super carriers showing up. Rather that be the Infinity or the Eternity depends on the time frame and which ship is available . These two aren't the only options the UNSC have the Punic-class supercarriers as well. Which they have been producing since 2490 to present day in the lore. So that large number of super MACs pointed at the Imperial Navy might be a deterrent for 50 to 75 warships showing up with troops.
All depends on how important the world is. Because remember the Covenant had the numbers advantage Imperium has and had the tech advantage at the beginning of the Human-Covenant War. And yet the battles for Harvest an Agri world lasted 5 years. Simply because the UNSC kept sending more forces to hold and retake the world. The UNSC ended up winning that one.
Halo Wars Captain Cutter said it like this. "Captain's report, February 4th, 2531. Five years, five long years. That's how long it took us to get Harvest back..."
At first it was going well...Then setback after setback...Loss after loss...
Made what was going to be a quick and decisive win...Into five years of Hell...
Of course, that's all Harvest really is today...It's Hell down there, but now it's ours again."
So the where the Imperial Guard and Navy are use to being the unstoppable will of the Emperor. The UNSC is used to being the immovable object.
For ground forces wise if you ever played Warhammer Fantasy it's like the Imperials vs the Dwarfs . The Imperial Guard obviously being the Imperials. And the UNSC being like the Dwarf's . Stubborn , Battle harden and a literal wall once they get dug into a position.
Or for a more 40k reference the UNSC is kind of like the Old Lore Squats when they dig into a position it's going to cost you a hell of a lot to remove them.
Basically picture 40k Squats the size of a normal human using ranged weapons like the Tau do. And you have Guardsmen with no other supporting elements involved because their busy at the moment with whatever their doing. Your objective is to clear out these assholes from the planet you want to take from them. Their objective is to murder every last one of you to a man and they have absolutely no rules of engagement. They aren't going to retreat and they have seen these wave tactics the majority of the Guard use hundreds of times before with twice the number of a typical guard deployment. Also their artillery out ranges yours.
That's why for the Imperial Guard vs the UNSC ground forces it's the old unstoppable force meets Immovable object. They aren't giving an inch and they are hitting you before you can get into effective range to use any real artillery that isn't going to cost a small fortune and cause damage to your new world your wanting to take.
Do you see the Imperial Guards problem ? I do and it's typically what happens when the Imperial Guard is forced to fight on it's own against combined arms forces like the UNSC without Naval support for either side.
Soldiers in Star Trek is ridiculous, very hard to take them seriously.
2:06 millions? No. Trillions!
Lasguns may be able to blow the arm off a man but i dont want to get atomized into nothing by a phaser set to 10.
The Imperial Guard. A billion dead is a rounding error.
Star wars: Naval Infantry
Star Trek: Commandos
Warhammer 40k: Standing colonial Mechanised Army
Halo: Marine Elite
Special Forces
Its all a matter of manning and function.
Okay, this guy really downplays Star Trek to an insane degree, their weapons have a much longer range than said here which is 750 meters and that is with just the rifle. They also use battle tactics that heavily use transporters so their army will instantly be anywhere on the battlefield. They don't use armor because their weapons shoot through it but their medical tech can fix most combat injuries, which is why the death toll was so low in the Dominion War, most deaths were from space ships. Theres plenty more on just Star Trek that was missed in this video. Bu5 i also have to point out that Stormtroopers are just as powerful as Clone Troopers, that for The Emperor to allow Tarkin to remove the clones he would need a solder that was just as capable man for man. Meaning the Stormtroopers had just as good aim and equipment who's armor is vacuumed sealed and protected against extreme temperatures, where viewed as being just as good as Clone Troopers.
Also for how strong Spartan armor is, 22 Spartans did an orbital drop like in the Reach game (which is not canon), and they only had their personal shields to protect themselves. As I recall only 2 Spartains died due to hitting the sides of a cliff. And this took place during the fall of Reach, when their armor is at the weakest for the Covenant War.
@Nutbug why did you contiunously show STORM TROOPERS whenever you spoke about "imperial army trooper"? They are not the same things. You also once again got Warhammer 40,000 numbers wrong again...in Warhammer, Terra alone has quadrillions of people on it (as per Vaults of Terra: The Carrion Throne). There are easily trillions of guardsmen and that isn't counting any of the of specialist forces the Imperium commands and the Lasrifle fires a beam that packs more punch than a 0.50 cal, please do some actual research for your videos.
You know watching warhammer Got me thinking on what a star wars version of a space marine look like and The father of this Space Marine I think Anakin would be a good choice for there being there gen father because his DNA is op and It's something darth sideous would love to Create
And it would just be interesting to see And just to see anakin's reaction
I actually have my kind of what if sinnero on how thy could happen have Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas Find Anakin Years before He's found in the Phantom Minutes So Anakin would be really really young And he just takes his blood
Get the Kaminoans To create these super soldiers but The numbers of these soldiers wouldn't be in the millions I would make them over a hundred thousand There would be the special forces but They actually would be A.
Couple years older then fett clons
But in reality, all these soldiers soldiers wouldn't be clones they Just a children of Anakin and from eggs from Unknown mothers
Force Users can't be cloned properly
@@christiandauz3742 those aren't clones
Is this an AI channel? I get the feeling it's an AI channel...
Star Trek federation wouldn't stand a chance in a stand up fight against any of the others.
Halo Marines would put up a good fight before getting overwhelmed by either Star Wars Imperial army or 40k Astra Militarum.
The Imperial army would be a tough nut to crack for the Astra Militarum and would likely take decades, even centuries, to conquer. But eventually they would fall to the might of the God-Emporer of Mankind.
Halo's Marines and Army have air/space craft including Fighters and Bombers. And also have EMP weapons and nukes . Those numbers aren't so bad after the UNSC Marine Corps Air wing drops a few thousand pounds of 200 megaton nukes on them now are they .
Also the Imperial Guard is the low gothic words for Astra Militarum which is the High Gothic word for the same organization.
@@John2r1 I like to use High Gothic wherever possible, wouldn't want to be confused with under-hive scum now would I?
When I say Imperial army I was referring to the Galactic empire's forces.
@keirwhitwell7831 OK. But that's more like the galactic empire police force lol. They seriously don't have much in the way of practical equipment. And the most recent war they fought was the Clone Wars which lasted like 5 years.
The rebellion doesn't really count for much. Since it was more like police work and chasing pirates than an actual war.
As much as I love Star Trek, I always thought the way Star Fleet has been kept up is so stupid. Like I get it, Gene Roddenberry didn’t want Starfleet to be militarized because it would go against what the message of the show is. But cmon how fucking dumb is star fleet command? They always get curb stomped and saved by a mcguffin. “Hey guys should we perhaps have a dedicated force meant for military action? Because crazy shit keeps happening and we always just barely get by the skin of our teeth” and people go NUH UH. I think it kinda is a offense to the message of peaceful exploration and existence. Sometimes to have peace you need to be ready to bring out the big guns and boys and girls to fight to keep that peace.
I just have to say, the choice of picking the UNSC Marines as the main infantry force for this video is strange, considering the Marines are actually a smaller and lighter armed branch, focused on mobility. In lore the Army is the largest branch of the UNSC, having the most soldiers, the most vehicles, armor, bases, ect, and being the primary defenders of UNSC worlds. Halo has a bad habit of showcasing the Marines as the main force for some reason, even when it doesn't make a ton of sense, so I suppose that is why someone not as familiar with Halo would think they are the main branch. Not saying the Army is the main branch, they all have their roles, but the Marines are overrated and overused in the lore a ton. Kinda like Star Wars and the Imperial Army vs the Stormtroopers. Both are the main ground forces that in ground combat do the most of the fighting, yet you pretty much never hear about them sadly.
I feel for the sake of ranking in this list, it'd be best to simply use UNICOM for the UNSC instead of using the smaller and lighter armed Marines.