My nans old cottage in huntingdon (UK) had bare wires running across the beams (assume these were live & neutral/ earth) in her 5' high cellar, these wires were attached to small white insulators about every three feet that had been nailed to the wood beams. My granddad who was 6' and had a bald head received a number of electric shocks to his head when walking under the beams. He told me that his father had said the wires sere installed in the late 1930's. Fortunately this system has now being replaced but the old wires, though disconnected are still there. Great video and thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Thank you, I've been without power for 5 days now with 2 kids because everyone I called was refusing responsibility, now I know it's my building manager, I'll be getting them told again. Thank you.
i had a fuseboard which caught a light and was melting from the wall, went outside and pulled the main fuse straight away, none of this nonsense with calling up the DNO because I touched their main cut out fuse. situations like that call for drastic measures as far as I'm concerned, thank you for the video JW. a nice presentation.
@@UberAlphaSirus It's been mentioned on a number of UK sparky channels that the DNO and meter installers take ths view that the seal is there to show that they have done their job at installation time.
That’s still true in Europe - if you call them right away *after* with a plausible story, nobody is fussed about the seal on the fuse being gone. But you shouldn’t look like you’re the kind of person who might have a grow house on the second floor hooked up when they’re not looking.
Pulling the main fuse from the cut-out without protective gloves can be a dangerous exercise, on rare occasions the fault can be from the cut-out arcing, which can cause surface voltage at the cut-out, not only that would you know if the main fuse carrier at the cut-out was damaged or not,
That took me back, when I was an electrician back in the 70s I fitted scores of those Wylex consumer units. Not seen one for years. I find your videos so interesting. Thank you.
Hello mate, my meter is reversed since I moved here and I want to make it back as it was, how do I do that, where do I find any info about reversing , is it hard to make it back as it was so it starts counting?
I recently had the ancient overhead cable and the cable to the service header replaced for free. The overhead cable is fused at the pole but I forgot to ask what the rating is. I imagine it's something around 200 amps as the service header fuse is 100 amp. The guys were really helpful and informative. They seemed rather chuffed that someone was taking an interest in what they do giving me a tour of their vans and equipment and showing me training videos. Good blokes.
Also a historic note on those fuses... I think you have covered it before, but if you try and replace the Wylex fuse carrier after a fuse blows, and the fault still exists, the fuse blows quite violently sending little bits and bobs right into the spot where your fingers are on the finger holds. That's why they're all meant to say TURN OFF BEFORE REMOVING FUSES.
If you try to put a fuse in a 100a circuit after an open and possible fault without opening the the consumer isolation switch and breakers, then you probably shouldn't be replacing the cutout anyway... I would probably put a small load across the carrier say 3kv kettle in a apocalyptic situation to check for dead short
@@jonesconrad1 i had one that had a lose connection , lots of sparks and went off , still no idea why but it appear the switch failed for some reason , i could get the power back on by moving the main switch , no one had been near it and only 60 years old lol
Thanks for that explanation. I had often wondered who owned what in this very familiar scenario. The set-up used for the practical demonstration was the icing on the cake. Thanks again!
Even though this is a demonstration unit and not connected to the supply, seeing you poke around that with a metal screwdriver gives me the heebie-jeebies!
Watching you video on this brings back memories of the old boxes the smell of bakelite was great how things have got safer but the nostalgia is still alive
Just a few days ago we had everything replaced on ours from the cable onward. The backboard was disintegrating the head was falling off and the meter was dead. Due to a leak in the roof. We were lucky the whole wall was soaking wet and the water was running over the head . Lucky nothing caught fire and nobody died. I kept everyone away as soon as it was discovered in the garage. Our substation and supply is at the bottom of our garden so a nice potential of 800 amps if things had gone south. The DNO did a grand job and explained everything, backing up everything you have said. Fitting every thing new and also upgrading our 60 amp tails to 100 amp as a bonus. Smart meter fitted a few days later and the meter guy was really appreciative of brand new kit to fit to.
All so true! Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old). He said, "I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you." I laughed and said, "Well, good luck with that!" He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job.
@@johndododoe1411 Absolutely ! The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
20:49 - having removed the fuseboard cover, you can park the lid upside down using the same screw fitted into the upper screw hole an inch or so above the hole normally used by the lid screw. I can't think of another purpose for this extra screw hole !
That fusebox needs a massive bundle of twin & earth as thick as your leg poking out the top, which connect to a disturbingly small number of fuses, all of which are the wrong rating. One of which has to be labelled "immersion" and in fact powers half the upstairs sockets too ;-) Sorry, this setup is giving me flashbacks to an old house I used to rent where the lights dimmed if I ran the electric hob.
It's pretty much our installation - except meter's a new electronic thing. The rest of the supply installation is as shown and as it's only worked for one century, it's barely run in yet. It's not due its first 1,000 year's service for another 900 years.
(for elimination purposes, all i wanted to do was prove the switch was dud and the fan was fine. I underestimated how much LESS conductive steel is than copper!)
@@James_Bowie just push a nail into the contacts for the carrier, and hope the cold, unheated house and over engineered ring main wiring is able to dissipate the heat... My parents were paranoid about the house burning down, and I can see why given the fuse wire might not be correct.
Having an EV fitted. Aimed to get 100A fuse to replace existing 60A fuse. Contacted DNO. They told me about ownership and that I had to get tails changed from 16mm2 to 25mm2 before they would change fuse. Electricity supplier I was with would charge me about £250 for this. Changed electricity supplier. Booked in new supplier to change tails for free (3month lead time). Oh, cannot change tails because fuse holder does not accept 25mm2; DNO needs to change fuse holder. Meanwhile, also arranging electricity supplier to fit smart meters (3month lead time). Day arrived, E.ON computer system down all day. Meters could not be fitted. Re-arranged (1month lead time). Decided to stick with 16mm2 - DNO happy to fit 80A fuse on 16mm2. Now EV charger is fitted it emergency shuts off now and again because of overvoltage on supply. That is not going to be good for its relay contacts. We have an average of about 250V but it is very variable and, daily, experience brief excursions to 258V. Now awaiting a transformer tap change; no idea when. Most people I know with smart meters cannot get their wireless power meter displays to work. And the UK government want growth. I can't see it happening very quickly, can you?
our elec system is a modern old mix.....we got the modern key token meter that eventually connects to the brown fuse box...which is a larger version of what is seen in this video with the ceramic plug things. i just have to love the reassuring 'clunk' sound the switch makes when you flick the 'on/off' switch down or up.
Hi Recently retired DNO Jointer/fitter/Faultsman. A couple of clarifications, The lead sheath of all cables are NOT earth conductors, they are a protective sheath that is earthed for its own protection. Not to provide an earth. A separate earth conductor is required ( this is a very common assumption but the earth value of the sheath is not guaranteed by the DNO, Note many DNO staff don't know this because of historical practice, The electricity Supply regulations are what apply not IEE Regs). The Henley cut out, all of these Henly cutouts have a max fuse rating of 60a if they are "Half Clip", as this one is (the metal holding the fuse in place only goes around half of the fuse), if the metal goes all the way around the fuse its 89/100a. Saying that the type you have here is Half clip and the full clip type stick out further and you will see a line facing you where the holder comes apart, and maybe labeled 80a. If no label assume 60a. They are also not always compound filled, around 60% are, if the service comes from another property they will be unfilled as the cable is vulcanized rubber, red hessian sheath if its not covered in paint etc. When it comes to changing the cutout or moving it, you are right to say don't try yourself...... but they can be moved or replaced by trained staff, they are done live, even if filled with compound, its messy and hard work if in a small cupboard, Face visor, gloves and flash retardant overalls is the modern attire, yes people have died doing it, a tiny number, yes many have had shocks, yes its not done so much nowadays but millions have been done and still get done by trained staff. The accident rate is tiny because of the training. Its just as risky as cutting the cable outside unless you have the small cupboard situation or think its damaged. The situation on fuse protection of the cut out. In practice the fuse rating at the substation, is in order of commonality, 500a, 400a/630a, 350a.....an 800a fuse is very very rare, not impossible but very rare due to the fact that changing one live is impossible on load without damaging the contacts. Everything else is spot on and better than most videos who forget to mention not to cut the seals, I only mention, other than the lead sheath, for interest not criticism. Well done. PS just remembered the compound leaks, 99.999% of those leaks are due to modern central heating making the ambient temp higher that the "flow" point of the compound, so other than mess its not a problem. the other 0.001% will be obvious by the smell of hot compound. Cheers.
I thought I would add, not to put a bonding clamp on a lead cable or tighten up an existing one, due to risk of blowing things up. The DNO has to come and solder a new tab to it.
A point worth repeating is with the metal version of this Wylex board, if using rewireable fuses as here always replace the fuse cover. If you don't, when a fuse blows it's possible for an arc to strike from the live side to the metalwork with only the main/service fuse between it and the incoming supply.
Thank you John. I've absolutely no desire to put my hands anywhere near one of these ugly and dangerous looking devices but I do thank you for showing me what's inside.
I remember as a child (65 years ago plus) there was an incoming fuse on both line and neutral. I often worried that the neutral fuse would blow in preference to the line, cutting off the supply to the house but leaving all the line connections live!
I retired from don a couple of years ago, and we still used to come across the odd cut out, metal clad, which had a rewritable fuse in live and neutral. This was classed as an emergency, and would be changed to a new one on the same day. We also had to check the rest of the street to see they were ok.
@@percyprod165 Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading and swapped out the meter. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box - 1 fuse in phase, 1 in neutral - that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old). He said, "I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you." I laughed and said, "Well, good luck with that!" He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job. The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
Buried incoming cable faults often occur due to deteriorated insulation. Where I live there were quite a few of them in the same local area quite recently. Large chunks of the 3 core aluminium 3 phase cable (to which the single phase connections to individual houses are connected) were dug up and replaced, when the feed from the “local transformer” tripped out with several houses suffering from power cuts. The “local transformer” feed tripped out when the cores were no longer insulated from each other, due to water leaking in from the ground. I think they were between 30 and 40 years old.
Still have this setup in my house. One fuse holder had been “rewired” with a length of electrical solder when I moved in!! Got a qualified electrician replacing the consumer unit, meter tails and testing the whole of wiring.
Informative and explained clearly, interesting on the Yellow 20 amp fuse carrier. Thanks for sharing. I had my domestic supply changed to 3 phase recently, very interesting watching the DNO connect to the 1960s four core sheathed lead wrapped street supply run in the foot path. Each core was left with its insulation on, and clip on bite connectors used to splice on the feed, then large plastic boot, filled with a two pack sealant. The old single phase cable was cut, potted and left live under the path.
yep watched them repair the feed to my garage (3 phase) same procedure, dug up the street and they cut out a bad section of the leaded cable. and used the crimpy things then filled with epoxy, thankfully my garage had its supply renewed in the 90's so was on modern cable all the way out to the street, but the office next door were on the old leaded cable and thats where it faulted, burned a nice hole in it, should have taken pics.
Seen this done many times in my time as a spark, chatted with the guys doing it , had to laugh he was using the high voltage cable as a seat while doing the connections!
That's something I've always wondered if you don't mind me asking *roughly* how much did they charge for switching to 3 phase? I can't imagine it was cheap.
My grandma's house has such old equipment but no earth connection.We asked the company to provide the earth terminals using TT and they've done it without any problems, leaving earth cables to light and socket circuitry. Now for the sockets it's our responsability to replace them with newer ones, either DYU or qualified electrician. The equipment is still in good shape and working fine and the wood also ok
This was really interesting! We've just had the 66 year old fuse box (identical to your example but cream coloured) replaced after a short in the garage blew the power circuit (not just the fuse wire but the whole of the socket in the box underneath it!) The meters (gas and electric) were replaced about nine months ago with smart meters replacing the same rotating disc type shown here. We now have a nice modern consumer unit paid for by the extra house insurance on the pipes and electrics - thank goodness! Only problem is now we have to replace some light fittings as we never knew the council hadn't fitted the light circuits with an earth (all bakelite fittings back in the '50s) Thanks for all the info!
We still had this system up until about 15-20 years ago, so relieved when we updated our main consumer unit with RCD protected circuits, so much safer!
@@danw1374 You're right it is a lot safer - but its still a right pain in the backside when something which would not have bothered the old fuse wire trips the darned rcd! Had a problem on Christmas eve - the main rcd tripped, reset and a few hours later went again this time the ground floor sockets tripped on turning back on. Unplugged everything and re-plugged one by one - no problem. Day after Boxing day off it went again, this time as we were going to bed with everything turned off - reset, off to bed then woke up at 2am when power went out. Wouldn't reset so put a couple of extension leads on the emergency sockets for the fridges and freezers. Next morning did the unplugging ritual again and (hopefully) traced it to the plug which goes out through the wall and into the porch from the outside (no other way to get power there at the time it was built) The pvc pipes the cable runs through are pretty much weathered to fragile dust and it was raining hard when the power went out! Unplugged the porch and no more problems - now need to re-wire the porch! (This time under some new plastic cladding!!) Ah well, that's progress!
This is a basic question but here goes. How can live always be live if the supply is AC. Is it because, although the current and voltage oscillate. the fact that the neutral is tied to earth means that in theory you, the neutral and the earth are at the same potential and as such the potential is 0V even though that potential is swinging between -230V and +230V with respect to live
Here in sweden you legally "own" everything, both the "cutout", "meter" and everything else. But that doesn't mean you can freely move anything, you still have to contact the distributor (corresponds to DNO in your case) in all cases for everything that has a seal, you aren't allowed to break any seal. Breaking any seal without authorization, even if you don't touch anything, counts as "disconducting electricity" (a crime that relates to theft of electricity). However, in emergencies, for example if you see melting fuses or something running hot, you can request that you are allowed to break seals to do a emergency shutoff, but then you first have to call the emergency hotline of your distributor, and then they will schedule emergency disconnection of your supply. Then they will give a permission over phone to break seals and disconnect supply, and any power between break of seals and real disconnection is unmetered. (It of course only gives a couple of hours of "free electricity" but they give away that for free just because safety is more important than getting paid for the electricity they sell) These emergencies include any fault before your main breaker, but also cases when your main breaker have gone bad or is even outright dangerous, for example if the plasic have cracked on the main breaker and exposes live parts in such a way its dangerous to touch the main breaker to shut off electricity. In some cases the "meter" or the "cutout" have a main breaker you can disconnect, but many times this main breaker is sealed just because the electricity meter is not allowed to make powerless, then you must call your distributor. Notice that even if you have chose another company to pay to, for example if your distributor is "Guthenburg energy" ( www.goteborgenergi.se ) and you chose to buy electricity from Eon ( www.eon.se ), its still Guthenburg electricity who is allowed to move the "cutout" and "meter". In sweden it works like this, its ALWAYS the distributor (and not electric supplier) which reads the meter, or collects the measurement values. Then if you have another electricity company as supplier than the distributor, they report the metering value to that company, which bills you. So basically, change of electric supplier in sweden, is entirely a digital/virtual process. Everything is done in computer. The reason you legally "own" everything, is due to responsibility. Even if you aren't allowed to move or tamper with anything that is sealed of course, to prevent tampering, the legal responsibility for example if a fault occurs so a fire happens, or if something is wrongly connected, for example a missing/loose/failed/disconnected neutral in a three phase supply causing all your sockets to go 400V, then insurance-wise and responsibility-wise, its you as a customer who gets the shit, even for anything behind sealed covers. Its because you as a customer is responsible to schedule any service with the equipment to ensure it doesnt age in such a way a electrical danger occurs. There was such a case in the program called "SVT Plus" (an consumer TV program where they mock companies that do bad things with its customers kind of) where the neutral had gone loose, it become 400V in all sockets, and fried all electronics, and also caused a minor fire. The distributor said it was the customers fault that the installation was allowed to age such so that hazard could form, but the customer told that it was sealed and he couldn't "check the status of the installation if it needed maintenace". The dispute landed on that the customers responsibility to schedule reglar inspections from the electrical distributor to ensure the safety of the installation.
Meters aren't changed in the UK when you change suppliers. The only exception to that is the first generation of "smart meters" which, due to technical limitations, can need physically swapping out. Otherwise it's just an administrative change with a meter reading.
Here in the UK we wouldn't break seals to do an emergency 'shut off'. Nothing behind the seals is designed to shut off power manually. The power should be turned off before the main fuse is removed. Removing this fuse to disconnect a load is not what it was designed for.
@@millomweb correct, but as I said, in dire emergencies it could be neccessary to disconnect a fuse under load. In the same way a E-stop could stop a machine in a way that could cause the machine to break, but for safety. Its very rare such emergency disconnection is done, but it does exist the possibility if something happen. Actually, the main breaker and fuses before the meter is usually sealed today, just to ensure the values are reported in at the correct intervals (smart meters).
@@sebastiannielsen Here, we have a main switch for the purpose.If there was anything making that inaccessible, it's like the main fuse would be equally inaccessible too ! In my house, there has been occasions to use the fuse as a switch for convenience rather than emergency and the load through the fuse at the time would be minimal.
How many people does it take to move a fuseboard? Five... - you - need the landlord - who needs the electrician - who needs the electricity provider - who needs the local distributor
You forgot to add in the boss of the house, otherwise you will get the reply, "You are not putting that there! No it's not going on the otherside of the bedroom wall!!"
@Ged Woods I think I have seen the same thing. One person to say that the coffee machine isn't working. One to be testing the said machine One looking on pretending to be interested. One looking on but couldn't be less interested One reading over the cheat sheet, in case they missed something I'm not sure what the sixth "crew" member is doing, but have ran out of ideas.
We had an old dial meter and solar panels fitted which resulted in the meter going backwards (major no-no in the UK). I reported this on the same day as the solar panel commissioning. The DNO were fine and this was typical problem, but the electrician that visited was over-the-top - we are going to prosecute you for turning the meter backwards. I had to prove to him the sun was out, that turning off the solar supply would stop the meter going backwards, that turning on a large load would turn the meter forwards, and the the paper work showing the panel commissioning date. After 1 hour he accepted that he would fit a new meter (that was his remit for the job), but he was are real pain; even to the level that he did not seam to understand that solar panels generated electricity so would turn the meter backwards if demand was less than solar generation.
Just feel i need to correct somthing said here. Whilst it will be your supplier you need to contact regarding the meter, it is not the suppliers asset nor is it necessarily the same company that the engineer comes from. The suppliers can choose which meter operator company they use to fit the meters. Where its one of the larger suppliers this is often their own meter engineers but the smaller suppliers will either only take on customers already with a supply fitted (or recomend switching after getting a big supplier to get works done) or they agree contracts with a meter operator company to provide this service for them. Meters are often changed when you switch supplier as a different meter operator may have been prefered by that supplier though the simplest option would have been for the supplier to keep the previous agent.
As a retired meter reader, an occasional question from customers with an outside meter box: "Who owns the box containing the suppliers equipment? Can I repair the broken door, and what about painting the exterior? " I believe the actual enclosure is part of the property, installed by the house builders, but of course the contents belong to the DNO and supply company. Was I correct, because a huge number of boxes have broken doors etc never mended, letting the weather in?
Couple of points about installations in the UK - apologies if they have been mentioned in comments already (I haven't read all of them). Firstly, the service cable and cut-out (or cable-head if you prefer to call it that) will *usually* be owned and operated by the local DNO (Distribution Network Operator) as stated by John. (Note that DNOs are changing their name to DSOs (Distribution System Operators), just to make it more confusing). Anyway, in some newer properties the service cable and cut-out may be owned and operated by an IDNO (Independent Distribution Network Operator). This is due to deregulation of some of the distribution network that allows IDNOs and ICPs (Independent Connection Providers) to 'contest' certain elements of the provision of a new connection. So, you may see a sticker or notice next to your cut-out that indicates who you should contact regarding any fault or alteration to the terminal equipment - but that won't necessarily be the local DNO/DSO! In rare circumstances you may find that your local distribution network is a private network and has been for decades - an example being say a lodge house fed from a big house in the countryside. DNO/DSO supply terminates in the 'big house' and there the supplier's responsibility ends. Over to whoever owns the private network to resolve any issues - all in accordance with the Electricity At Work regulations, etc, etc of course. Second point about the back-board for the cut-out and meter. It certainly used to be the case (and I think it still is) that all accommodation for the terminal equipment is the responsibility of the owner of the property (e.g. house-owner or landlord) but said accommodation has to satisfy DNO/DSO/IDNO specifications. The back-board that the terminal equipment is mounted upon can't be any old bit of timber, it must have a specified minimum fire-resistance rating of one hour. If the back-board needs adjustment or replacement, you must contact your DNO/DSO/IDNO (terminal equipment owner/operator) to arrange for any work to be done safely but it will be the property owner's responsibility to supply/install/alter the actual back-board. Wonderfully straightforward, isn't it?!
I work for a DNO we change meter boards it's not chargeable and the boards are supplied by us because they are designed to be fire retardant they will burn but won't support a flame
Just as a note, if you live in a property with a sub-line , the DNO don't actually own or service the cutout and main cable as we've found out to our disadvantage.
great video content my question is how are electricians changing consumer units if there is no double pole islolator fitted by the DNO as you have stated that these are usually sealed and you are not suppose to remove . Seen video by David slavery where by he decided to pull main fuse so he could fit new consumer unit because as he stated why don't the DNO fit double pole isolator s standard as surely this is eager safety issue towards the electrician ??
I have been phoning everyone since March last year to try and get a fuse removed from my mums meter, and I started phoning her gas supplier, they told me to phone her old gas supplier, as the new supplier didn't fit it, then the old supplier told us to phone our local council, nearly 1 year later, and still no luck, until I saw this video, called sp energy, and they are calling me back in the next 2 days, and today is Feb 16th 2022, so hopefully get this fixed in the near future, thanks to this video.
The cut out belongs to the power distributor. Mine is Northern powergrid energy company is British gas. Today British gas couldn't fit a new meter because the cut out is not working properly but still passing electric through. Northern Powergrid need to sort it before British gas can put the new meter in.
Pretty good John. But 800a fuses lol? We used them out of hours to blast a short in mains underground cables to open circuit then backfeed to get folk on supply overnight. Never seen them used as protection though - 500a highest in my 30 odd years with SPEN. Oh, as for solid links, there are link pillars in the streets, but they're fed from Substations with 400a fuses.
In the early 1990s' I went to a building site were the builder pulled down an old building and for months the meter board could been seen in the middle of the building site unprotected and dangling on the supply cable in the wind with a 2.5mm flex attached directly to the meter and feeding some nearby builders container box. Shame cameras were not popular back then.
The official procedure to get a supply disconnect is now quite complicated and the companies involved will charge for their work. So a lot a unscrupulous demolition companies are now knocking the buildings down with the live cables still connected then calling in trying to get it cut off free of charge ‘because it is now a dangerous situation’. They then get an even bigger bill and try everything they can do to bugger off into the sunset without paying it. It got so bad recently that the electric Utlilities companies got together called and meeting with the governmental regulator and some of the larger demolition companies to try to stop this off before they end up killing someone.
pmailkeey the building sites still need electric so they often arrange for the old supply to be disconnected and diverted into a temporary supply cabinet on site to feed their portacabins and welfare facilities. This cabinet can be made out of anything as long as it is robust, lockable for security and weather proof. It is official called a TBS [Temporary Builders Supply] and is perfectly normal.
My parents have a 1970s Wylex and the positioning of the warning amuses me. With the Wylex at eye level you can't read the warning about switching off until after you have removed the fuses it warned you not to remove. Looking at the interior it was clearly designed to kill you!
I had a paper insulated cable catch fire yesterday, and shorting out and setting the house cutout on fire. Like, flames, arcs, spewing fire and smoke. I had to beat it out with a shirt and then frantically call emergency services while the smoke alarms were blaring. I am now worried that they might replace the wire to my new main fuse, but the wire outside, in the ground, will still be partially paper insulated, and what if it starts arching and catching fire again?
This was / is excellent to watch. Very informative. This is the second video of yours that I've watched (earthing / bonding being the first), and I've just now subscribed. You've quite a unique way of explaining which makes learning easier for an older fella like me.
You mentioned the service cable must not be tampered with, quite rightly so. It is a concern about the age of some of these cables, quite often the conductors are much smaller than retrofitted meter tails, unless the entire installation is similar to your example shown. I have seen the pitch leaking out of these cables because the property has been extended, more circuits added, then a situation arises that the demand is greater than what those cables can safely handle. A serious fire risk. I have an overhead supply coming into my property. The service cable is over 40 years old. In fact, back in 2013, the dno replaced the bare 3 phase & neutral plus 6 metres of my and my neighbours service cable, but left the old stuff cleated to the walls of the property in use, they fixed a cable joint on the corner of the property to connect the new to the old, why they did not replace the lot is beyond me.
I've worked for a Big 6 supplier in WPD and SSEN regions and I've never heard of a modern electricity supplier exchanging tails into an existing or new consumer unit for an electrician. As far as I know under the MOCOPA we are never to connect new consumer tails. We can either connect the tails that were already in the existing meter installation, or fit a two, three or four pole isolator and leave it sealed on the line side and unsealed and safe for connection on the switched side, with all the required safety notices in case the electrician is a bit green.
The electricity supplier used to check the install before turning on ,but now it's up to the spark to turn on the fuseboard, this putting the onus on him/her.
It depends on which supply company you work for. My previous company we used to fit an isolator switch. My existing company we fit switches on most single phase new installations however on 3 phase we fit the tails direct . To do this we have to access switchgear to check connections . Insulation resistance test . Inspect premises earth bonding . Check all tails are correctly identified. This saves on the price of a switch which always baffles me as fitting a switch is much faster and fixers responsibility ends at the switch
@@nicholasclarke8757 possibly a contractual thing. Thing is suppliers could choose to get us all 18th edition trained and equip us with test meters, but they don't for many reasons, namely liability, work planning and cost. 3 phase trained fitters are a lot rarer and usually more experienced, so it makes sense to train them up. I'm always quite sad when our trainers reminisce about the days of being Inspectors for SWALEC/Southern Electric and having all the qualifications and teeth they needed to get the job done properly when things got complicated. The demarcation of electric and gas installations into three different areas is the cause of most of my work headaches.
@@OkenWS fair point. I have to say a lot of new installations I visit have some sort of issue . Tails incorrectly or not labelled or no switchgear fitted yet . Fitting a switch is so simple and most sparks are happy to have it done that way. I've got some expensive test equipment but it doesn't get a lot of use
@@nicholasclarke8757 16mm tails on 100A fused new builds gets me at the moment. I've given up issuing warning notices for it because clearly the electricians or their management don't find it necessary to conform to BS7671 and the supplier/DNO's opinion is probably considered invalid. Honestly, compliance is not that difficult and things like that indicate lack of tradesman skill to me. I despair.
Had the exact same old cable failure last week. 33m of cable pulled out of conduit and replaced with new PVC, because the old one was way too brittle, and shorted out after being disturbed. Also had to dig in the plaster a little, to get the buried junction box that was there, and while I was there replaced the old non used 2 way switching, as the lights are now on a group photocell, so there are now plain blank plates installed. Now got to some time replace the other 5 near identical layouts, as that is I suspect the cause of very random tripping, but that is a lot of old wire to persuade out, and I do not get paid as I actually live here. Will be done as the lights themselves fail one by one, which was the case here, a 30 year old fitting cracked, and I did the entire group as a unit, after making safe at 9PM.
I Remember Hacking Those Meters By Heating A Needle With A Flame And Poking It Through The Front Plastic Screen To Stop The Wheel Spinning , Naughty But Nice I've Worked On Live Feeds Many Times And Its Pretty Nerve Racking But Desperate Times Call For A Little Bit Of Ingenuity And Courage Smart Video Earthling Take Care Brother
Crazy, how it now looks very shabby compared to the modern installations, nice video. (I like that you mentioned the incorrect CPC connection on the incoming system. Was that you?🤣)
That looked exactly like the set up in my parents place, though I'm pleased to say they have since had the fuse box replaced with a new(er) consumer unit.
I’ve seen a DNO guy pull a cut out with a lead cable off the wall. The earth tag on the cable was knackered so he got into the tiny under stairs cupboard, took it off the wall and started peeling away some of the steel banding to fit a new one. He pretty much had the thing between his legs at one point 😂
There must be lots of stories going round of the insane things DNO guys have done lol. I saw one stick his bare finger up the inside of a live cut out to confirm it wasn't bunged.
@@0liver0verson9 I know a dude that done bypasses bare handed all he had was some insulated boots🤣 he didn't even care about getting shocked from a wall socket or light fitting, I thought it was deadly but he reckoned even a 240v wall socket ain't killing no 6ft man with a decent "ticker" the guy went onto tell me about ones that did land him in hospital and it was always them big wires coming in from the street and one was when he wired up a compressor it "stung him" while it was just starting up so was nasty af. He was adamant all sparkles have been shocked multiple times 🤷♂️
My board is very similar to the one shown. I don't like the idea of a smart meter in doors so I got a couple of quotes to shift the board to the outside wall. The power is delivered from overhead cables and there would be no need to extend any cables. The cost was £1200, with additional costs of installing the outside box and connecting up the consumer unit. The time needed to shift the board can be no more than 3-4 hours. I declined to have the job done!
Brings back memories of working on council rewires. Could you do a vid on some of the scams you have seen where people have tried to fiddle or bypass the meter
@@keithterry2169 you'd be suprised. As much as it's wrong I used to bypass meters, I used to get called out a lot when folk tried to DIY it thinking its as easy as connecting circuit wires pre-meter. I seen a grow house one time they basically drilled out the wall at the mains and chopped around the insulation and wired the place up directly from a split open cable. They were running amongst other things ten 1000watt lamps and the main cable was just hacked open
The electric meter is owned and maintained by a MOP, (meter operator). The MOP is appointed by the electricity supplier and they in effect lease a meter to the supplier with a service contract but don’t own the meter.
I had solar panels fitted. Then my old mechanical meter started going backwards when the sun came out! :) My supplier, who had to be told I had solar panels fitted, told me my meter was not compatible with solar and they were coming to change it. Pity!
John, why do you earth to gas or waterpipe, the plumber is not a qualified electrician, so how do you know he has provided a good ground connection? In Australia you need a dedicated earth stake or have the UK regs changed and gas or water is only in old connections?
What you pay for electricity covers the electricity itself, the network distribution costs, government energy policies and plenty more. www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/costs-your-energy-bill
I've cut power to my sisters home, Enexis(our grid provider) agreed to cut her old connection. Still waiting two months later. Default supply contract still going.. no wonder they don't rush to disconnect.
Excellent video John thankyou. Interestingly, there are 2 main fuses in a property I look after. One in a cupboard outside, which feeds a second consumer fuse inside the house before the meter. The DNO absolutely will not take responsibility for the second fuse even though it is in line before the meter. They will not replace the old concentric cable (a good 8-10mm CSA!) and remove the second fuse, saying it is our responsibility. Legally I don't know where we stand now, as the installation feels less than safe to me!
@@virtual3d993 Western Power and they are still refusing to amend it and remove the second fuse. No local contractor will touch it either sadly. Perhaps I should ask Chris from CJR electrical to ask Pedro to come round and sort it.
A poor stance by the DNO. I work for a different DNO. I’ve seen this situation in our area once or twice. Same sort of argument at the office…. In the end I arranged for the problem be sorted out from a customer service standpoint. Everyone in my office pulled a face and said “oo, I wouldn’t have endorsed that”. Too bad for them all, it got sorted.
PILC-paper Insulated lead covered-cable is a mare to work with, had to a do a sub joint onto one of these for a temp supply on a job years ago on a prison wing. Congrats on the 100K subs John.
Hugely interesting. The importance of older installations being potentially dangerous if anything is moved is something most people don't consider. Great clarity on who owns what. Great video. Well done😀
Yes, call the DNO to replace - it's their backboard with their equipment fixed to it, so entirely their responsibility. In the UK, the number to call is 105.
that clamp for the earth on the incoming supply is huge no no, should be an original sweated/soldered, hepworth compression bond or constant pressure roll spring installation.
He said so in the video and explained this was a common issue people will need to deal with. These lazy clamps will probably stay around for decades due to the cost of calling in the DNO.
The old Wylex BS5486 board loaded up with semi-enclosed's to BS3036 together with the incoming tails belong to the property owner... The metering equipment belongs to the energy supplier... The cutout/service head and tails up to the meter are the responsibility of the DNO (Distribution Network Operator) The DNO are responsible for maintaining TN earthing arrangements... The property owner is responsible for maintaining TT earthing arrangements... Values of Ze (external earth fault loop impedance) can be obtained through either enquiry...or direct measurement... Enquiry will typically result in being given .80Ω for a TN-S...and .35Ω for a TN-C-S... Direct measurement will often (but not exclusively) return lower values... Semi-enclosed fuses to BS3036 come in either 1KA, 2KA or 4KA maximum Ipf (prospective fault current) withstand... Hope this clears things up. Thanks. Glenn GLMelectrical UK
The US is kinda crazy. The electric company only owns the meter's electronics and wiring upstream of the meter. The homeowner owns (and must supply) literally everything else. From my electric company's contract: "Each Applicant for service will be responsible for all inside wiring, including the service entrance, meter socket and conduit." and "The Customer, at his or her expense, will provide the necessary trenching, conduit, conduit installation, backfill, landscape restoration and paving and will also furnish, install, own and maintain termination facilities on or within the building to be served." Note that the homeowner is responsible for the meter socket. If you've ever seen an american meter, there's a metal box on the side of the house with a small circular window that shows the meter.. that's the meter socket.. (search home depot's website for "meter socket" for examples).
Looks just like the setup I have in a house I just bought, unfortunately everything is mounted on a large sheet of asbestos. Are you in need of some overtime :).
In there day these were a joy to wire . Double screws on the terminals. Then someone came along said we can’t use them as they are combustible.so what did we use plastic that’s 50 times more combustible
Hi i have an exact device on my building where i live but the problem is that some people steal power from the distribution box ca you tell me how to find the thief
Hello John, I need to replace my consumer unit and there is no isolator switch. The current consumer unit does not have RCDs and SPD. I just bought the house recently and not moved in yet. I am trying to contact DNO Western Power but no response yet. The supplier is The British Gas. Please advise me. Many thanks, Ahmed
I am having an EV charger fitted. The supplier noted that the power head is damaged so I need to get the DNO to replace it - long wait ( did not damage it btw) To keep things simple I am going to have a new CU fitted just for the Charger in a new IP65 cabinet next to the existing meter cabinet. To do this I need to have the meter moved a little, then a DP Isolator and then 100A connector blocks to split the supply after the DP Isolator. So I need to get the Energy supplier to come out to move the meter and fit the DP Isolator (Will that be done live or will they break the new seal to remove the main fuse?) - more waiting. Then my electrician will fit the 100A connector blocks after the DP Isolator and re-connect the existing main CU to those. Then the EV Charger company will come out and connect the new CU in the new cabinet to the connector blocks FOUR different Sparks to get a simple job done and professionals wonder why people are tempted to DIY this stuff !! The DNO Electrician should be able to do all this work, except the charger of course. Maybe I will just offer him cash when he comes to do the power head
Still got that exact fuse box, although a 6-way version in better condition, I've got a digital meter, (not a smart one though, they're a rip - off!) Also got that exact same head, but Interestingly mine is a "loop-in" system where, along with the main lead covered incoming cable, there is a second cable coming out of the head, which goes through a hole in the wall, under the floorboards to the house next door.
So to be clear - between my meter and fuse box, the line and neutral both go through a "black box" with BICC written on it, with metal sealing tabs around the screws. As this is AFTER the meter, I presume this is "mine" per the video, so I am okay for an electrician to break the seals?
I don't know about 1870s, but the house I was raised in, which was built in 1955, had pretty well that set up (although maybe not TN-S). That Ferranti meter looks ancient.
Hiya! I own Ferranti meters like that. Pop over and have a look some time. The FNE 12Q and the FNN 2Q have yet to show, so do be sure to whack the subscribe button when you visit. I will even power them up too. :D -Wayne's Electrical. _26th October 2019, 20.39_
Connected to their own individual circuit at the consumer unit. If an RCD is required, then it's an individual RCBO or an RCD and MCB which is used for the inverter circuit only. Not permitted for an inverter to share an RCD with other circuits.
Great video JW... I've been out to a number of properties where the distributors supply earth has a higher impedance than that permitted by BS 7671, when I've contacted UK Power Networks in the majority of cases, they relinquish any responsible of repair or replacement as the property is of a significant age. Does this seem right to you?
ESQCRs say the DNO has a responsibility to maintain the earth connection whenever they provide it. I reported a BS951 clamp recently at a property in central Birmingham. Instead of agreeing to deal with it, they cynically declared the earthing arrangement to be TT. They said they could 'convert' it to TN-S with a suitable connection to the lead sheath, but there would be a charge.
@@westinthewest It already appears to be a TN-S system... The connection method to earth is what is in question. We could spend ages going back and forth with these crooks but that doesn't help our customers so very often we do what's necessary to sort it out ourselves.
In theory the DNO are supposed to maintain/repair an existing earth connection if they provided it originally. Reality is often very different. Such as them just adding an RCD to the incoming supply because the impedance was ~10 ohms on what was supposed to be a TN-S service.
I replaced a ceramic (china) fuse box once in a small mid terrace house. Never seen anything like it. I should have kept it. Ceramic fuses were quite common but this had a ceramic top cover as well. Very heavy. I didnt keep it as the fuse wire ran over asbestos pads.
Had a job recently where neither the DNO or the metering company would take responsibility for the old single insulted tails between the cut out and meter . It’s a bloody nightmare . I visit my local DNO office in Poole and they gave me 10 seals , I had to register with them as I was an Niceic contractor . This allows me to pull the fuse and replace tails safely but it’s still such a grey area .
@@ted5hhh1241 If you find this to be a reoccurring theme, I'd ask for some sort of documentation from them that outline exactly what they are responsible for. My guess is that the document will clearly state that they are responsible for the metering equipment and the tails and will be very reluctant to give you physical proof confirmed what you already know.
The back-board plus the cabinet if present are the property and responsibility of the building owner and have to be provided before a connection will be made by the DNO - of course once the equipment is installed the owner can't do much with it. Same applies to gas - this causes issue if the metering company wish to install a meter that isn't compatible with the cabinet that is installed as the onus is on the owner to change the cabinet - but this clearly is impossible without having the supply company and metering company do the work all at the same time!
Your meter supplier is the one you contact if your mains fuse blows, they will come out and replace it after checking for a reason why the fuse has blown
As always very informative - pitch will flow at room temperature - I tested cables in the 1960s and to load the heated machine the operator attacked a steel drum of pitch with an axe before going home , the next day a black pudde was spread on the concrete floor, easily shoved up as it broke like glass when moved quickly - non Newtonian liquid?
Hi I have a radio teleswitch attached to my prepaid key meter , I have storage heaters which give me off peak hours. But one day/night I got 8 hours , next 10 hours and next 13 hours. The off peak hours are divided into 4 My electric is very cheap compared to everybody else know with storage heaters. Is this normal?
Apparently you can purchase your own Meter and have it professionally installed/certified and then purchase your electricity directly from the generation company therefore bypassing the expensive middleman
No, you can't do that. You might find that information from sovereign citizens or people that claim energy is free, but it's misleading. The companies that generate the energy will not deal directly with domestic properties. If you install your own meter it should be done with full cooperation from your current supplier.
@@gmo4250 oh shut up ! You are one of those idiots that believes in being enslaved and getting screwed ! We pay for our energy via our taxes to the national grid !
Thinking of separating my shed wiring connection, at present it goes from the house, prefer to have it wired from the meter box, how would you spilt it so you have a extra wire coming out to go towards the shed, thanks
How do they cut the old cable and join a new one to the outside meter box if it is live? As an electrician how do you replace the consumer unit? Are you allowed to pull the main fuse do that?
They turn off the load and dismantle the PILC. The lead is peeled back to expose at least 200mm of the internal structure. Then some insulated pry tools are used to separate the internal conductors. They are then simply cropped and a cable splicing kit is used to connect up the new PVC cable. An electrician should not remove the main fuse, but most will.
My nans old cottage in huntingdon (UK) had bare wires running across the beams (assume these were live & neutral/ earth) in her 5' high cellar, these wires were attached to small white insulators about every three feet that had been nailed to the wood beams.
My granddad who was 6' and had a bald head received a number of electric shocks to his head when walking under the beams.
He told me that his father had said the wires sere installed in the late 1930's.
Fortunately this system has now being replaced but the old wires, though disconnected are still there.
Great video and thanks for sharing
👍👍👍
Sounds like 1920s electrics needs urgent replacing.
May well have been a DC supply from a local supplier
I encountered a similar dangerous setup when looking at a new home with my parents back around 1980. Didn't buy that one.
Thank you, I've been without power for 5 days now with 2 kids because everyone I called was refusing responsibility, now I know it's my building manager, I'll be getting them told again. Thank you.
i had a fuseboard which caught a light and was melting from the wall, went outside and pulled the main fuse straight away, none of this nonsense with calling up the DNO because I touched their main cut out fuse. situations like that call for drastic measures as far as I'm concerned, thank you for the video JW. a nice presentation.
Tbh, only an anal person wouldnt pull the main fuse to get work done. The DNO and meter bleeders ignore cut tags, the just want to get home.
@@UberAlphaSirus It's been mentioned on a number of UK sparky channels that the DNO and meter installers take ths view that the seal is there to show that they have done their job at installation time.
That’s still true in Europe - if you call them right away *after* with a plausible story, nobody is fussed about the seal on the fuse being gone. But you shouldn’t look like you’re the kind of person who might have a grow house on the second floor hooked up when they’re not looking.
Pulling the main fuse from the cut-out without protective gloves can be a dangerous exercise, on rare occasions the fault can be from the cut-out arcing, which can cause surface voltage at the cut-out, not only that would you know if the main fuse carrier at the cut-out was damaged or not,
ticktock T a ceramic screw thread fuse holder might work better - you don’t really have an air path between where the arc would start and your hands.
That took me back, when I was an electrician back in the 70s I fitted scores of those Wylex consumer units. Not seen one for years. I find your videos so interesting. Thank you.
Hello mate, my meter is reversed since I moved here and I want to make it back as it was, how do I do that, where do I find any info about reversing , is it hard to make it back as it was so it starts counting?
Talk to your DNO
I recently had the ancient overhead cable and the cable to the service header replaced for free. The overhead cable is fused at the pole but I forgot to ask what the rating is. I imagine it's something around 200 amps as the service header fuse is 100 amp. The guys were really helpful and informative. They seemed rather chuffed that someone was taking an interest in what they do giving me a tour of their vans and equipment and showing me training videos. Good blokes.
Also a historic note on those fuses... I think you have covered it before, but if you try and replace the Wylex fuse carrier after a fuse blows, and the fault still exists, the fuse blows quite violently sending little bits and bobs right into the spot where your fingers are on the finger holds. That's why they're all meant to say TURN OFF BEFORE REMOVING FUSES.
We still use in Malaysia
@@sugumaranperiasamy7101 We still use in the UK, we just don't fit. them anymore, there are millions still in existing use though.
If you try to put a fuse in a 100a circuit after an open and possible fault without opening the the consumer isolation switch and breakers, then you probably shouldn't be replacing the cutout anyway... I would probably put a small load across the carrier say 3kv kettle in a apocalyptic situation to check for dead short
@@T2D.SteveArcs "3kv kettle"
Wow !
Some powerful kettle you have there !
@@jonesconrad1 i had one that had a lose connection , lots of sparks and went off , still no idea why but it appear the switch failed for some reason , i could get the power back on by moving the main switch , no one had been near it and only 60 years old lol
Really interesting. Thank you for uploading.
Ps. Congrats on 100k!
Thanks for that explanation. I had often wondered who owned what in this very familiar scenario. The set-up used for the practical demonstration was the icing on the cake. Thanks again!
Even though this is a demonstration unit and not connected to the supply, seeing you poke around that with a metal screwdriver gives me the heebie-jeebies!
Great video. Love the little details you throw in. No doubt most of us here work in the industry, but we're all learning something from John Ward!
Watching you video on this brings back memories of the old boxes the smell of bakelite was great
how things have got safer but the nostalgia is still alive
Things are not safer just more complicated, there were higher safety standars decades ago when we had proper DC supplies!
@@ebbay7361when did you have dc mains supplies
Many thanks for taking the time to produce this. Really appreciated 👍
Just a few days ago we had everything replaced on ours from the cable onward. The backboard was disintegrating the head was falling off and the meter was dead. Due to a leak in the roof. We were lucky the whole wall was soaking wet and the water was running over the head . Lucky nothing caught fire and nobody died. I kept everyone away as soon as it was discovered in the garage. Our substation and supply is at the bottom of our garden so a nice potential of 800 amps if things had gone south. The DNO did a grand job and explained everything, backing up everything you have said. Fitting every thing new and also upgrading our 60 amp tails to 100 amp as a bonus. Smart meter fitted a few days later and the meter guy was really appreciative of brand new kit to fit to.
John, just brilliant and your dry humor is an added bonus. I always refer to your channel when I am working on electrics - your a star, thank you.
Very nostalgic and interesting, remember well the old TN-S supply.
All so true!
Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old).
He said,
"I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you."
I laughed and said,
"Well, good luck with that!"
He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job.
Probably better quality than anything provided by the DNO later.
@@johndododoe1411 Absolutely !
The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
Excellent production and content as ever. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to film and share. All the best Pete
20:49 - having removed the fuseboard cover, you can park the lid upside down using the same screw fitted into the upper screw hole an inch or so above the hole normally used by the lid screw. I can't think of another purpose for this extra screw hole !
That fusebox needs a massive bundle of twin & earth as thick as your leg poking out the top, which connect to a disturbingly small number of fuses, all of which are the wrong rating. One of which has to be labelled "immersion" and in fact powers half the upstairs sockets too ;-)
Sorry, this setup is giving me flashbacks to an old house I used to rent where the lights dimmed if I ran the electric hob.
You forgot the 5 amp carrier powering the shed which actually has 30 amp fuse wire in it
It's pretty much our installation - except meter's a new electronic thing. The rest of the supply installation is as shown and as it's only worked for one century, it's barely run in yet. It's not due its first 1,000 year's service for another 900 years.
@@TheChipmunk2008 ... or a paper clip.
(for elimination purposes, all i wanted to do was prove the switch was dud and the fan was fine. I underestimated how much LESS conductive steel is than copper!)
@@James_Bowie just push a nail into the contacts for the carrier, and hope the cold, unheated house and over engineered ring main wiring is able to dissipate the heat...
My parents were paranoid about the house burning down, and I can see why given the fuse wire might not be correct.
Having an EV fitted. Aimed to get 100A fuse to replace existing 60A fuse. Contacted DNO. They told me about ownership and that I had to get tails changed from 16mm2 to 25mm2 before they would change fuse. Electricity supplier I was with would charge me about £250 for this. Changed electricity supplier. Booked in new supplier to change tails for free (3month lead time). Oh, cannot change tails because fuse holder does not accept 25mm2; DNO needs to change fuse holder. Meanwhile, also arranging electricity supplier to fit smart meters (3month lead time). Day arrived, E.ON computer system down all day. Meters could not be fitted. Re-arranged (1month lead time). Decided to stick with 16mm2 - DNO happy to fit 80A fuse on 16mm2. Now EV charger is fitted it emergency shuts off now and again because of overvoltage on supply. That is not going to be good for its relay contacts. We have an average of about 250V but it is very variable and, daily, experience brief excursions to 258V. Now awaiting a transformer tap change; no idea when. Most people I know with smart meters cannot get their wireless power meter displays to work. And the UK government want growth. I can't see it happening very quickly, can you?
our elec system is a modern old mix.....we got the modern key token meter that eventually connects to the brown fuse box...which is a larger version of what is seen in this video with the ceramic plug things. i just have to love the reassuring 'clunk' sound the switch makes when you flick the 'on/off' switch down or up.
Hi Recently retired DNO Jointer/fitter/Faultsman.
A couple of clarifications, The lead sheath of all cables are NOT earth conductors, they are a protective sheath that is earthed for its own protection. Not to provide an earth. A separate earth conductor is required ( this is a very common assumption but the earth value of the sheath is not guaranteed by the DNO, Note many DNO staff don't know this because of historical practice, The electricity Supply regulations are what apply not IEE Regs).
The Henley cut out, all of these Henly cutouts have a max fuse rating of 60a if they are "Half Clip", as this one is (the metal holding the fuse in place only goes around half of the fuse), if the metal goes all the way around the fuse its 89/100a. Saying that the type you have here is Half clip and the full clip type stick out further and you will see a line facing you where the holder comes apart, and maybe labeled 80a. If no label assume 60a.
They are also not always compound filled, around 60% are, if the service comes from another property they will be unfilled as the cable is vulcanized rubber, red hessian sheath if its not covered in paint etc.
When it comes to changing the cutout or moving it, you are right to say don't try yourself...... but they can be moved or replaced by trained staff, they are done live, even if filled with compound, its messy and hard work if in a small cupboard, Face visor, gloves and flash retardant overalls is the modern attire, yes people have died doing it, a tiny number, yes many have had shocks, yes its not done so much nowadays but millions have been done and still get done by trained staff. The accident rate is tiny because of the training. Its just as risky as cutting the cable outside unless you have the small cupboard situation or think its damaged.
The situation on fuse protection of the cut out. In practice the fuse rating at the substation, is in order of commonality, 500a, 400a/630a, 350a.....an 800a fuse is very very rare, not impossible but very rare due to the fact that changing one live is impossible on load without damaging the contacts.
Everything else is spot on and better than most videos who forget to mention not to cut the seals, I only mention, other than the lead sheath, for interest not criticism. Well done.
PS just remembered the compound leaks, 99.999% of those leaks are due to modern central heating making the ambient temp higher that the "flow" point of the compound, so other than mess its not a problem. the other 0.001% will be obvious by the smell of hot compound.
Cheers.
I thought I would add, not to put a bonding clamp on a lead cable or tighten up an existing one, due to risk of blowing things up. The DNO has to come and solder a new tab to it.
A point worth repeating is with the metal version of this Wylex board, if using rewireable fuses as here always replace the fuse cover. If you don't, when a fuse blows it's possible for an arc to strike from the live side to the metalwork with only the main/service fuse between it and the incoming supply.
Thank you John. I've absolutely no desire to put my hands anywhere near one of these ugly and dangerous looking devices but I do thank you for showing me what's inside.
The replacement smart meter is far more dangerous to your health
I remember as a child (65 years ago plus) there was an incoming fuse on both line and neutral. I often worried that the neutral fuse would blow in preference to the line, cutting off the supply to the house but leaving all the line connections live!
Peter Jones you worried about that as a child? 🤓😉
I retired from don a couple of years ago, and we still used to come across the odd cut out, metal clad, which had a rewritable fuse in live and neutral. This was classed as an emergency, and would be changed to a new one on the same day. We also had to check the rest of the street to see they were ok.
There's still loads of fused neutrals out there if we find one we have to check 5 houses either side and replace any we find
I’m a meter fitter and came across a fused neutral last week, job aborted and reported to DNO
@@percyprod165 Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading and swapped out the meter. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box - 1 fuse in phase, 1 in neutral - that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old).
He said,
"I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you."
I laughed and said,
"Well, good luck with that!"
He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job. The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
Buried incoming cable faults often occur due to deteriorated insulation. Where I live there were quite a few of them in the same local area quite recently. Large chunks of the 3 core aluminium 3 phase cable (to which the single phase connections to individual houses are connected) were dug up and replaced, when the feed from the “local transformer” tripped out with several houses suffering from power cuts. The “local transformer” feed tripped out when the cores were no longer insulated from each other, due to water leaking in from the ground. I think they were between 30 and 40 years old.
Probably Consac mains cable. Consac was in common use from the '70s to early '90s and is prone to failure. Best underground cable has to be PILC.
Still have this setup in my house. One fuse holder had been “rewired” with a length of electrical solder when I moved in!! Got a qualified electrician replacing the consumer unit, meter tails and testing the whole of wiring.
It's fuse wire
not seen a meter like that in years, last one i saw was going backwards with a selma battery charger..
back in the days people used to put huge powerful magnets on top of the old meter bit to slow the rotation down hence lower bills.
Informative and explained clearly, interesting on the Yellow 20 amp fuse carrier. Thanks for sharing.
I had my domestic supply changed to 3 phase recently, very interesting watching the DNO connect to the 1960s four core sheathed lead wrapped street supply run in the foot path. Each core was left with its insulation on, and clip on bite connectors used to splice on the feed, then large plastic boot, filled with a two pack sealant. The old single phase cable was cut, potted and left live under the path.
I would love to have seen that.
yep watched them repair the feed to my garage (3 phase) same procedure, dug up the street and they cut out a bad section of the leaded cable. and used the crimpy things then filled with epoxy, thankfully my garage had its supply renewed in the 90's so was on modern cable all the way out to the street, but the office next door were on the old leaded cable and thats where it faulted, burned a nice hole in it, should have taken pics.
Seen this done many times in my time as a spark, chatted with the guys doing it , had to laugh he was using the high voltage cable as a seat while doing the connections!
That's something I've always wondered if you don't mind me asking *roughly* how much did they charge for switching to 3 phase? I can't imagine it was cheap.
@@Firecul £ 3.6 K in 2018 for the DNO including cutoff and meter box, excludes trench from path to house. Contact your DNO, that's part of their job.
My grandma's house has such old equipment but no earth connection.We asked the company to provide the earth terminals using TT and they've done it without any problems, leaving earth cables to light and socket circuitry. Now for the sockets it's our responsability to replace them with newer ones, either DYU or qualified electrician. The equipment is still in good shape and working fine and the wood also ok
This was really interesting! We've just had the 66 year old fuse box (identical to your example but cream coloured) replaced after a short in the garage blew the power circuit (not just the fuse wire but the whole of the socket in the box underneath it!) The meters (gas and electric) were replaced about nine months ago with smart meters replacing the same rotating disc type shown here. We now have a nice modern consumer unit paid for by the extra house insurance on the pipes and electrics - thank goodness! Only problem is now we have to replace some light fittings as we never knew the council hadn't fitted the light circuits with an earth (all bakelite fittings back in the '50s) Thanks for all the info!
We still had this system up until about 15-20 years ago, so relieved when we updated our main consumer unit with RCD protected circuits, so much safer!
@@danw1374 You're right it is a lot safer - but its still a right pain in the backside when something which would not have bothered the old fuse wire trips the darned rcd! Had a problem on Christmas eve - the main rcd tripped, reset and a few hours later went again this time the ground floor sockets tripped on turning back on. Unplugged everything and re-plugged one by one - no problem. Day after Boxing day off it went again, this time as we were going to bed with everything turned off - reset, off to bed then woke up at 2am when power went out. Wouldn't reset so put a couple of extension leads on the emergency sockets for the fridges and freezers. Next morning did the unplugging ritual again and (hopefully) traced it to the plug which goes out through the wall and into the porch from the outside (no other way to get power there at the time it was built) The pvc pipes the cable runs through are pretty much weathered to fragile dust and it was raining hard when the power went out! Unplugged the porch and no more problems - now need to re-wire the porch! (This time under some new plastic cladding!!) Ah well, that's progress!
This is a basic question but here goes. How can live always be live if the supply is AC. Is it because, although the current and voltage oscillate. the fact that the neutral is tied to earth means that in theory you, the neutral and the earth are at the same potential and as such the potential is 0V even though that potential is swinging between -230V and +230V with respect to live
Here in sweden you legally "own" everything, both the "cutout", "meter" and everything else. But that doesn't mean you can freely move anything, you still have to contact the distributor (corresponds to DNO in your case) in all cases for everything that has a seal, you aren't allowed to break any seal. Breaking any seal without authorization, even if you don't touch anything, counts as "disconducting electricity" (a crime that relates to theft of electricity).
However, in emergencies, for example if you see melting fuses or something running hot, you can request that you are allowed to break seals to do a emergency shutoff, but then you first have to call the emergency hotline of your distributor, and then they will schedule emergency disconnection of your supply. Then they will give a permission over phone to break seals and disconnect supply, and any power between break of seals and real disconnection is unmetered.
(It of course only gives a couple of hours of "free electricity" but they give away that for free just because safety is more important than getting paid for the electricity they sell)
These emergencies include any fault before your main breaker, but also cases when your main breaker have gone bad or is even outright dangerous, for example if the plasic have cracked on the main breaker and exposes live parts in such a way its dangerous to touch the main breaker to shut off electricity. In some cases the "meter" or the "cutout" have a main breaker you can disconnect, but many times this main breaker is sealed just because the electricity meter is not allowed to make powerless, then you must call your distributor.
Notice that even if you have chose another company to pay to, for example if your distributor is "Guthenburg energy" ( www.goteborgenergi.se ) and you chose to buy electricity from Eon ( www.eon.se ), its still Guthenburg electricity who is allowed to move the "cutout" and "meter". In sweden it works like this, its ALWAYS the distributor (and not electric supplier) which reads the meter, or collects the measurement values. Then if you have another electricity company as supplier than the distributor, they report the metering value to that company, which bills you.
So basically, change of electric supplier in sweden, is entirely a digital/virtual process. Everything is done in computer.
The reason you legally "own" everything, is due to responsibility. Even if you aren't allowed to move or tamper with anything that is sealed of course, to prevent tampering, the legal responsibility for example if a fault occurs so a fire happens, or if something is wrongly connected, for example a missing/loose/failed/disconnected neutral in a three phase supply causing all your sockets to go 400V, then insurance-wise and responsibility-wise, its you as a customer who gets the shit, even for anything behind sealed covers.
Its because you as a customer is responsible to schedule any service with the equipment to ensure it doesnt age in such a way a electrical danger occurs.
There was such a case in the program called "SVT Plus" (an consumer TV program where they mock companies that do bad things with its customers kind of) where the neutral had gone loose, it become 400V in all sockets, and fried all electronics, and also caused a minor fire. The distributor said it was the customers fault that the installation was allowed to age such so that hazard could form, but the customer told that it was sealed and he couldn't "check the status of the installation if it needed maintenace". The dispute landed on that the customers responsibility to schedule reglar inspections from the electrical distributor to ensure the safety of the installation.
Meters aren't changed in the UK when you change suppliers. The only exception to that is the first generation of "smart meters" which, due to technical limitations, can need physically swapping out. Otherwise it's just an administrative change with a meter reading.
Here in the UK we wouldn't break seals to do an emergency 'shut off'. Nothing behind the seals is designed to shut off power manually. The power should be turned off before the main fuse is removed. Removing this fuse to disconnect a load is not what it was designed for.
@@millomweb correct, but as I said, in dire emergencies it could be neccessary to disconnect a fuse under load. In the same way a E-stop could stop a machine in a way that could cause the machine to break, but for safety. Its very rare such emergency disconnection is done, but it does exist the possibility if something happen.
Actually, the main breaker and fuses before the meter is usually sealed today, just to ensure the values are reported in at the correct intervals (smart meters).
@@sebastiannielsen Here, we have a main switch for the purpose.If there was anything making that inaccessible, it's like the main fuse would be equally inaccessible too !
In my house, there has been occasions to use the fuse as a switch for convenience rather than emergency and the load through the fuse at the time would be minimal.
How many people does it take to move a fuseboard?
Five...
- you
- need the landlord
- who needs the electrician
- who needs the electricity provider
- who needs the local distributor
You forgot to add in the boss of the house, otherwise you will get the reply, "You are not putting that there! No it's not going on the otherside of the bedroom wall!!"
@Ged Woods I think I have seen the same thing.
One person to say that the coffee machine isn't working.
One to be testing the said machine
One looking on pretending to be interested.
One looking on but couldn't be less interested
One reading over the cheat sheet, in case they missed something
I'm not sure what the sixth "crew" member is doing, but have ran out of ideas.
We had an old dial meter and solar panels fitted which resulted in the meter going backwards (major no-no in the UK). I reported this on the same day as the solar panel commissioning. The DNO were fine and this was typical problem, but the electrician that visited was over-the-top - we are going to prosecute you for turning the meter backwards. I had to prove to him the sun was out, that turning off the solar supply would stop the meter going backwards, that turning on a large load would turn the meter forwards, and the the paper work showing the panel commissioning date. After 1 hour he accepted that he would fit a new meter (that was his remit for the job), but he was are real pain; even to the level that he did not seam to understand that solar panels generated electricity so would turn the meter backwards if demand was less than solar generation.
Just feel i need to correct somthing said here. Whilst it will be your supplier you need to contact regarding the meter, it is not the suppliers asset nor is it necessarily the same company that the engineer comes from. The suppliers can choose which meter operator company they use to fit the meters. Where its one of the larger suppliers this is often their own meter engineers but the smaller suppliers will either only take on customers already with a supply fitted (or recomend switching after getting a big supplier to get works done) or they agree contracts with a meter operator company to provide this service for them. Meters are often changed when you switch supplier as a different meter operator may have been prefered by that supplier though the simplest option would have been for the supplier to keep the previous agent.
As a retired meter reader, an occasional question from customers with an outside meter box: "Who owns the box containing the suppliers equipment? Can I repair the broken door, and what about painting the exterior? " I believe the actual enclosure is part of the property, installed by the house builders, but of course the contents belong to the DNO and supply company. Was I correct, because a huge number of boxes have broken doors etc never mended, letting the weather in?
Yes, the box is part of the building and any repairs are the responsibility of the building owner.
Excellent video thanks JW
Couple of points about installations in the UK - apologies if they have been mentioned in comments already (I haven't read all of them).
Firstly, the service cable and cut-out (or cable-head if you prefer to call it that) will *usually* be owned and operated by the local DNO (Distribution Network Operator) as stated by John. (Note that DNOs are changing their name to DSOs (Distribution System Operators), just to make it more confusing). Anyway, in some newer properties the service cable and cut-out may be owned and operated by an IDNO (Independent Distribution Network Operator). This is due to deregulation of some of the distribution network that allows IDNOs and ICPs (Independent Connection Providers) to 'contest' certain elements of the provision of a new connection. So, you may see a sticker or notice next to your cut-out that indicates who you should contact regarding any fault or alteration to the terminal equipment - but that won't necessarily be the local DNO/DSO! In rare circumstances you may find that your local distribution network is a private network and has been for decades - an example being say a lodge house fed from a big house in the countryside. DNO/DSO supply terminates in the 'big house' and there the supplier's responsibility ends. Over to whoever owns the private network to resolve any issues - all in accordance with the Electricity At Work regulations, etc, etc of course.
Second point about the back-board for the cut-out and meter. It certainly used to be the case (and I think it still is) that all accommodation for the terminal equipment is the responsibility of the owner of the property (e.g. house-owner or landlord) but said accommodation has to satisfy DNO/DSO/IDNO specifications. The back-board that the terminal equipment is mounted upon can't be any old bit of timber, it must have a specified minimum fire-resistance rating of one hour. If the back-board needs adjustment or replacement, you must contact your DNO/DSO/IDNO (terminal equipment owner/operator) to arrange for any work to be done safely but it will be the property owner's responsibility to supply/install/alter the actual back-board.
Wonderfully straightforward, isn't it?!
I work for a DNO we change meter boards it's not chargeable and the boards are supplied by us because they are designed to be fire retardant they will burn but won't support a flame
Just as a note, if you live in a property with a sub-line , the DNO don't actually own or service the cutout and main cable as we've found out to our disadvantage.
great video content my question is how are electricians changing consumer units if there is no double pole islolator fitted by the DNO as you have stated that these are usually sealed and you are not suppose to remove . Seen video by David slavery where by he decided to pull main fuse so he could fit new consumer unit because as he stated why don't the DNO fit double pole isolator s standard as surely this is eager safety issue towards the electrician ??
I have been phoning everyone since March last year to try and get a fuse removed from my mums meter, and I started phoning her gas supplier, they told me to phone her old gas supplier, as the new supplier didn't fit it, then the old supplier told us to phone our local council, nearly 1 year later, and still no luck, until I saw this video, called sp energy, and they are calling me back in the next 2 days, and today is Feb 16th 2022, so hopefully get this fixed in the near future, thanks to this video.
The cut out belongs to the power distributor. Mine is Northern powergrid energy company is British gas. Today British gas couldn't fit a new meter because the cut out is not working properly but still passing electric through. Northern Powergrid need to sort it before British gas can put the new meter in.
Pretty good John. But 800a fuses lol? We used them out of hours to blast a short in mains underground cables to open circuit then backfeed to get folk on supply overnight. Never seen them used as protection though - 500a highest in my 30 odd years with SPEN.
Oh, as for solid links, there are link pillars in the streets, but they're fed from Substations with 400a fuses.
11:30 things take a very dark and dramatic turn. LOL!!! Best.Cause.And.Effect.Ever.
In the early 1990s' I went to a building site were the builder pulled down an old building and for months the meter board could been seen in the middle of the building site unprotected and dangling on the supply cable in the wind with a 2.5mm flex attached directly to the meter and feeding some nearby builders container box. Shame cameras were not popular back then.
Local demolition site to me still has 3ph supply - sheltered from the weather by being in a wooden box on legs.
The official procedure to get a supply disconnect is now quite complicated and the companies involved will charge for their work.
So a lot a unscrupulous demolition companies are now knocking the buildings down with the live cables still connected then calling in trying to get it cut off free of charge ‘because it is now a dangerous situation’.
They then get an even bigger bill and try everything they can do to bugger off into the sunset without paying it.
It got so bad recently that the electric Utlilities companies got together called and meeting with the governmental regulator and some of the larger demolition companies to try to stop this off before they end up killing someone.
pmailkeey
the building sites still need electric so they often arrange for the old supply to be disconnected and diverted into a temporary supply cabinet on site to feed their portacabins and welfare facilities.
This cabinet can be made out of anything as long as it is robust, lockable for security and weather proof.
It is official called a TBS [Temporary Builders Supply] and is perfectly normal.
@@robg521 Just connect the wires together at the site, that'll make it safe.
@@robg521 Old supply still connected.
My parents have a 1970s Wylex and the positioning of the warning amuses me. With the Wylex at eye level you can't read the warning about switching off until after you have removed the fuses it warned you not to remove.
Looking at the interior it was clearly designed to kill you!
I had a paper insulated cable catch fire yesterday, and shorting out and setting the house cutout on fire. Like, flames, arcs, spewing fire and smoke. I had to beat it out with a shirt and then frantically call emergency services while the smoke alarms were blaring.
I am now worried that they might replace the wire to my new main fuse, but the wire outside, in the ground, will still be partially paper insulated, and what if it starts arching and catching fire again?
This was / is excellent to watch. Very informative. This is the second video of yours that I've watched (earthing / bonding being the first), and I've just now subscribed. You've quite a unique way of explaining which makes learning easier for an older fella like me.
You mentioned the service cable must not be tampered with, quite rightly so. It is a concern about the age of some of these cables, quite often the conductors are much smaller than retrofitted meter tails, unless the entire installation is similar to your example shown. I have seen the pitch leaking out of these cables because the property has been extended, more circuits added, then a situation arises that the demand is greater than what those cables can safely handle. A serious fire risk.
I have an overhead supply coming into my property. The service cable is over 40 years old. In fact, back in 2013, the dno replaced the bare 3 phase & neutral plus 6 metres of my and my neighbours service cable, but left the old stuff cleated to the walls of the property in use, they fixed a cable joint on the corner of the property to connect the new to the old, why they did not replace the lot is beyond me.
I've worked for a Big 6 supplier in WPD and SSEN regions and I've never heard of a modern electricity supplier exchanging tails into an existing or new consumer unit for an electrician. As far as I know under the MOCOPA we are never to connect new consumer tails. We can either connect the tails that were already in the existing meter installation, or fit a two, three or four pole isolator and leave it sealed on the line side and unsealed and safe for connection on the switched side, with all the required safety notices in case the electrician is a bit green.
The electricity supplier used to check the install before turning on ,but now it's up to the spark to turn on the fuseboard, this putting the onus on him/her.
It depends on which supply company you work for. My previous company we used to fit an isolator switch. My existing company we fit switches on most single phase new installations however on 3 phase we fit the tails direct . To do this we have to access switchgear to check connections . Insulation resistance test . Inspect premises earth bonding . Check all tails are correctly identified. This saves on the price of a switch which always baffles me as fitting a switch is much faster and fixers responsibility ends at the switch
@@nicholasclarke8757 possibly a contractual thing. Thing is suppliers could choose to get us all 18th edition trained and equip us with test meters, but they don't for many reasons, namely liability, work planning and cost. 3 phase trained fitters are a lot rarer and usually more experienced, so it makes sense to train them up. I'm always quite sad when our trainers reminisce about the days of being Inspectors for SWALEC/Southern Electric and having all the qualifications and teeth they needed to get the job done properly when things got complicated. The demarcation of electric and gas installations into three different areas is the cause of most of my work headaches.
@@OkenWS fair point. I have to say a lot of new installations I visit have some sort of issue . Tails incorrectly or not labelled or no switchgear fitted yet . Fitting a switch is so simple and most sparks are happy to have it done that way. I've got some expensive test equipment but it doesn't get a lot of use
@@nicholasclarke8757 16mm tails on 100A fused new builds gets me at the moment. I've given up issuing warning notices for it because clearly the electricians or their management don't find it necessary to conform to BS7671 and the supplier/DNO's opinion is probably considered invalid. Honestly, compliance is not that difficult and things like that indicate lack of tradesman skill to me. I despair.
Had the exact same old cable failure last week. 33m of cable pulled out of conduit and replaced with new PVC, because the old one was way too brittle, and shorted out after being disturbed. Also had to dig in the plaster a little, to get the buried junction box that was there, and while I was there replaced the old non used 2 way switching, as the lights are now on a group photocell, so there are now plain blank plates installed.
Now got to some time replace the other 5 near identical layouts, as that is I suspect the cause of very random tripping, but that is a lot of old wire to persuade out, and I do not get paid as I actually live here. Will be done as the lights themselves fail one by one, which was the case here, a 30 year old fitting cracked, and I did the entire group as a unit, after making safe at 9PM.
The consumer unit or fuse box should be mounted on a board never direct to wall.
I Remember Hacking Those Meters By Heating A Needle With A Flame And Poking It Through The Front Plastic Screen To Stop The Wheel Spinning , Naughty But Nice
I've Worked On Live Feeds Many Times And Its Pretty Nerve Racking But Desperate Times Call For A Little Bit Of Ingenuity And Courage
Smart Video Earthling
Take Care Brother
The front of this and other similar meters are made of glass. Not plastic.
Well The One We Had Was Definitely Plastic Buddy ,.Have A Great Day
@@joohop Made in China ? 😳
Crazy, how it now looks very shabby compared to the modern installations, nice video. (I like that you mentioned the incorrect CPC connection on the incoming system. Was that you?🤣)
That looked exactly like the set up in my parents place, though I'm pleased to say they have since had the fuse box replaced with a new(er) consumer unit.
I’ve seen a DNO guy pull a cut out with a lead cable off the wall. The earth tag on the cable was knackered so he got into the tiny under stairs cupboard, took it off the wall and started peeling away some of the steel banding to fit a new one. He pretty much had the thing between his legs at one point 😂
There must be lots of stories going round of the insane things DNO guys have done lol. I saw one stick his bare finger up the inside of a live cut out to confirm it wasn't bunged.
We change cutouts live on lead cables everyday just smash the old cutout off pitch is brittle if you hit it then stick a new one on
@@0liver0verson9 I know a dude that done bypasses bare handed all he had was some insulated boots🤣 he didn't even care about getting shocked from a wall socket or light fitting, I thought it was deadly but he reckoned even a 240v wall socket ain't killing no 6ft man with a decent "ticker" the guy went onto tell me about ones that did land him in hospital and it was always them big wires coming in from the street and one was when he wired up a compressor it "stung him" while it was just starting up so was nasty af. He was adamant all sparkles have been shocked multiple times 🤷♂️
My board is very similar to the one shown. I don't like the idea of a smart meter in doors so I got a couple of quotes to shift the board to the outside wall. The power is delivered from overhead cables and there would be no need to extend any cables. The cost was £1200, with additional costs of installing the outside box and connecting up the consumer unit. The time needed to shift the board can be no more than 3-4 hours. I declined to have the job done!
Good price now .
Brings back memories of working on council rewires.
Could you do a vid on some of the scams you have seen where people have tried to fiddle or bypass the meter
I was thinking the same. Be interesting to see.
I once visited a property where the 11kW power shower was connected directly to the mains supply ! Even better news; I forgave them !!
@@keithterry2169 you'd be suprised. As much as it's wrong I used to bypass meters, I used to get called out a lot when folk tried to DIY it thinking its as easy as connecting circuit wires pre-meter. I seen a grow house one time they basically drilled out the wall at the mains and chopped around the insulation and wired the place up directly from a split open cable. They were running amongst other things ten 1000watt lamps and the main cable was just hacked open
😂 the big thick 'flying' lead outside the system touching the live terminal to live terminal making the bridge and numbers running backwards 😂
The electric meter is owned and maintained by a MOP, (meter operator). The MOP is appointed by the electricity supplier and they in effect lease a meter to the supplier with a service contract but don’t own the meter.
Neither do they create the power so what are we paying them for?
@@danielforde-pogson exactly !! The national grid supplies our energy, which we pay for in our taxes !
I had solar panels fitted. Then my old mechanical meter started going backwards when the sun came out! :)
My supplier, who had to be told I had solar panels fitted, told me my meter was not compatible with solar and they were coming to change it. Pity!
Should have ignored them
@@haldo691 The meter belongs to them - they have the right to change it. :(
@@OC35 eon have been trying to change mine for 2 years just keep ignoring them
John, why do you earth to gas or waterpipe, the plumber is not a qualified electrician, so how do you know he has provided a good ground connection?
In Australia you need a dedicated earth stake or have the UK regs changed and gas or water is only in old connections?
That's really useful. Thanks. Question though. If dno provides the network, what am I paying the supplier for?
What you pay for electricity covers the electricity itself, the network distribution costs, government energy policies and plenty more.
www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/costs-your-energy-bill
I've cut power to my sisters home, Enexis(our grid provider) agreed to cut her old connection. Still waiting two months later.
Default supply contract still going.. no wonder they don't rush to disconnect.
Excellent video John thankyou. Interestingly, there are 2 main fuses in a property I look after. One in a cupboard outside, which feeds a second consumer fuse inside the house before the meter. The DNO absolutely will not take responsibility for the second fuse even though it is in line before the meter. They will not replace the old concentric cable (a good 8-10mm CSA!) and remove the second fuse, saying it is our responsibility. Legally I don't know where we stand now, as the installation feels less than safe to me!
It’s been a while now, how did you get on with this situation? Who is the DNO in this case?
@@virtual3d993 Western Power and they are still refusing to amend it and remove the second fuse. No local contractor will touch it either sadly. Perhaps I should ask Chris from CJR electrical to ask Pedro to come round and sort it.
A poor stance by the DNO.
I work for a different DNO. I’ve seen this situation in our area once or twice.
Same sort of argument at the office….
In the end I arranged for the problem be sorted out from a customer service standpoint. Everyone in my office pulled a face and said “oo, I wouldn’t have endorsed that”.
Too bad for them all, it got sorted.
PILC-paper Insulated lead covered-cable is a mare to work with, had to a do a sub joint onto one of these for a temp supply on a job years ago on a prison wing.
Congrats on the 100K subs John.
Hugely interesting. The importance of older installations being potentially dangerous if anything is moved is something most people don't consider. Great clarity on who owns what. Great video. Well done😀
What if the backboard is rotting away? Who do you call? DNO? Thank you for you videos :-)
Yes, call the DNO to replace - it's their backboard with their equipment fixed to it, so entirely their responsibility. In the UK, the number to call is 105.
So how would you stop one of these meters or keep it on the night supply?
Asking for a friend.
Your friend will find the explanation here: www.tomorrowtides.com/electric-meter-fixing.html
That’s awesome, thank you. 🙏🏽
that clamp for the earth on the incoming supply is huge no no, should be an original sweated/soldered, hepworth compression bond or constant pressure roll spring installation.
He said so in the video and explained this was a common issue people will need to deal with. These lazy clamps will probably stay around for decades due to the cost of calling in the DNO.
The old Wylex BS5486 board loaded up with semi-enclosed's to BS3036 together with the incoming tails belong to the property owner...
The metering equipment belongs to the energy supplier...
The cutout/service head and tails up to the meter are the responsibility of the DNO (Distribution Network Operator)
The DNO are responsible for maintaining TN earthing arrangements...
The property owner is responsible for maintaining TT earthing arrangements...
Values of Ze (external earth fault loop impedance) can be obtained through either enquiry...or direct measurement...
Enquiry will typically result in being given .80Ω for a TN-S...and .35Ω for a TN-C-S...
Direct measurement will often (but not exclusively) return lower values...
Semi-enclosed fuses to BS3036 come in either 1KA, 2KA or 4KA maximum Ipf (prospective fault current) withstand...
Hope this clears things up.
Thanks.
Glenn
GLMelectrical
UK
The US is kinda crazy. The electric company only owns the meter's electronics and wiring upstream of the meter. The homeowner owns (and must supply) literally everything else. From my electric company's contract: "Each Applicant for service will be responsible for all inside wiring, including the service entrance, meter socket
and conduit." and "The Customer, at his or her expense, will provide the necessary trenching, conduit, conduit installation,
backfill, landscape restoration and paving and will also furnish, install, own and maintain termination facilities on or within the building to be served."
Note that the homeowner is responsible for the meter socket. If you've ever seen an american meter, there's a metal box on the side of the house with a small circular window that shows the meter.. that's the meter socket.. (search home depot's website for "meter socket" for examples).
Looks just like the setup I have in a house I just bought, unfortunately everything is mounted on a large sheet of asbestos. Are you in need of some overtime :).
If your cut off is in a different person's house would you still need to pay to get it moved?
very good explanation. thanks
How is an electrical support to change the board without pulling the fuse out.
Should they wait for the DNO?
Thank you
If you want to loose money then yes !
In there day these were a joy to wire . Double screws on the terminals. Then someone came along said we can’t use them as they are combustible.so what did we use plastic that’s 50 times more combustible
Hi i have an exact device on my building where i live but the problem is that some people steal power from the distribution box ca you tell me how to find the thief
Hello John,
I need to replace my consumer unit and there is no isolator switch. The current consumer unit does not have RCDs and SPD.
I just bought the house recently and not moved in yet.
I am trying to contact DNO Western Power but no response yet. The supplier is The British Gas.
Please advise me. Many thanks, Ahmed
I am having an EV charger fitted.
The supplier noted that the power head is damaged so I need to get the DNO to replace it - long wait ( did not damage it btw)
To keep things simple I am going to have a new CU fitted just for the Charger in a new IP65 cabinet next to the existing meter cabinet. To do this I need to have the meter moved a little, then a DP Isolator and then 100A connector blocks to split the supply after the DP Isolator. So I need to get the Energy supplier to come out to move the meter and fit the DP Isolator (Will that be done live or will they break the new seal to remove the main fuse?) - more waiting. Then my electrician will fit the 100A connector blocks after the DP Isolator and re-connect the existing main CU to those. Then the EV Charger company will come out and connect the new CU in the new cabinet to the connector blocks
FOUR different Sparks to get a simple job done and professionals wonder why people are tempted to DIY this stuff !! The DNO Electrician should be able to do all this work, except the charger of course. Maybe I will just offer him cash when he comes to do the power head
Still got that exact fuse box, although a 6-way version in better condition, I've got a digital meter, (not a smart one though, they're a rip - off!)
Also got that exact same head, but Interestingly mine is a "loop-in" system where, along with the main lead covered incoming cable, there is a second cable coming out of the head, which goes through a hole in the wall, under the floorboards to the house next door.
Who owns what???
JW owns 100K subscribers
Next question
Okay, who owns watt?
@@gorillaau Who's on first?
JW owns 101K subs
Looks like 1,002k subs to me...
...opps, sorry. Wong meter!
@@HuntersMoon78 I read this wrong. .
Looks at multifunction tester, and realises it needs to be calibrated again
So to be clear - between my meter and fuse box, the line and neutral both go through a "black box" with BICC written on it, with metal sealing tabs around the screws. As this is AFTER the meter, I presume this is "mine" per the video, so I am okay for an electrician to break the seals?
Yes.
I don't know about 1870s, but the house I was raised in, which was built in 1955, had pretty well that set up (although maybe not TN-S). That Ferranti meter looks ancient.
Hiya! I own Ferranti meters like that. Pop over and have a look some time.
The FNE 12Q and the FNN 2Q have yet to show, so do be sure to whack the subscribe button when you visit. I will even power them up too. :D
-Wayne's Electrical. _26th October 2019, 20.39_
Meter is from 1973.
Please do a video about types of meter installations ie economy 7, contract switches, radio telle switches, types of meters and switching gear.
How do you wire up grid tie inverters? I see people plugging them into main sockets but surely this would affect the function of the RCDs?
Connected to their own individual circuit at the consumer unit.
If an RCD is required, then it's an individual RCBO or an RCD and MCB which is used for the inverter circuit only. Not permitted for an inverter to share an RCD with other circuits.
Great video JW... I've been out to a number of properties where the distributors supply earth has a higher impedance than that permitted by BS 7671, when I've contacted UK Power Networks in the majority of cases, they relinquish any responsible of repair or replacement as the property is of a significant age. Does this seem right to you?
Well it’s there responsibility !! You have answered your own question.
ESQCRs say the DNO has a responsibility to maintain the earth connection whenever they provide it.
I reported a BS951 clamp recently at a property in central Birmingham. Instead of agreeing to deal with it, they cynically declared the earthing arrangement to be TT. They said they could 'convert' it to TN-S with a suitable connection to the lead sheath, but there would be a charge.
@@ted5hhh1241 Just wondered if there was some hidden clause JW might have known about.
@@westinthewest It already appears to be a TN-S system... The connection method to earth is what is in question. We could spend ages going back and forth with these crooks but that doesn't help our customers so very often we do what's necessary to sort it out ourselves.
In theory the DNO are supposed to maintain/repair an existing earth connection if they provided it originally.
Reality is often very different. Such as them just adding an RCD to the incoming supply because the impedance was ~10 ohms on what was supposed to be a TN-S service.
I replaced a ceramic (china) fuse box once in a small mid terrace house. Never seen anything like it. I should have kept it. Ceramic fuses were quite common but this had a ceramic top cover as well. Very heavy. I didnt keep it as the fuse wire ran over asbestos pads.
Had a job recently where neither the DNO or the metering company would take responsibility for the old single insulted tails between the cut out and meter . It’s a bloody nightmare . I visit my local DNO office in Poole and they gave me 10 seals , I had to register with them as I was an Niceic contractor . This allows me to pull the fuse and replace tails safely but it’s still such a grey area .
im a 3ph meter engineer the metering company would change them if you told them to
They would nt take responsibility .
The incomer tails and metering equipment are the responsible of your energy provider.
I ve know that ! But if the women on the phone won’t take responsibility what are contractors to do ??
@@ted5hhh1241 If you find this to be a reoccurring theme, I'd ask for some sort of documentation from them that outline exactly what they are responsible for. My guess is that the document will clearly state that they are responsible for the metering equipment and the tails and will be very reluctant to give you physical proof confirmed what you already know.
The back-board plus the cabinet if present are the property and responsibility of the building owner and have to be provided before a connection will be made by the DNO - of course once the equipment is installed the owner can't do much with it. Same applies to gas - this causes issue if the metering company wish to install a meter that isn't compatible with the cabinet that is installed as the onus is on the owner to change the cabinet - but this clearly is impossible without having the supply company and metering company do the work all at the same time!
Your meter supplier is the one you contact if your mains fuse blows, they will come out and replace it after checking for a reason why the fuse has blown
Can you advise on how to rig an old style UK electricity meter such as this?
As always very informative - pitch will flow at room temperature - I tested cables in the 1960s and to load the heated machine the operator attacked a steel drum of pitch with an axe before going home , the next day a black pudde was spread on the concrete floor, easily shoved up as it broke like glass when moved quickly - non Newtonian liquid?
Hi I have a radio teleswitch attached to my prepaid key meter , I have storage heaters which give me off peak hours. But one day/night I got 8 hours , next 10 hours and next 13 hours. The off peak hours are divided into 4 My electric is very cheap compared to everybody else know with storage heaters. Is this normal?
Apparently you can purchase your own Meter and have it professionally installed/certified and then purchase your electricity directly from the generation company therefore bypassing the expensive middleman
No, you can't do that. You might find that information from sovereign citizens or people that claim energy is free, but it's misleading. The companies that generate the energy will not deal directly with domestic properties. If you install your own meter it should be done with full cooperation from your current supplier.
@@gmo4250 oh shut up ! You are one of those idiots that believes in being enslaved and getting screwed !
We pay for our energy via our taxes to the national grid !
Thinking of separating my shed wiring connection, at present it goes from the house, prefer to have it wired from the meter box, how would you spilt it so you have a extra wire coming out to go towards the shed, thanks
How do they cut the old cable and join a new one to the outside meter box if it is live?
As an electrician how do you replace the consumer unit? Are you allowed to pull the main fuse do that?
They turn off the load and dismantle the PILC. The lead is peeled back to expose at least 200mm of the internal structure. Then some insulated pry tools are used to separate the internal conductors. They are then simply cropped and a cable splicing kit is used to connect up the new PVC cable.
An electrician should not remove the main fuse, but most will.
Yes most cables are jointed whilst live sounds dangerous but to do it dead would mean turning off 50 or 60 houses
Excellent lesson from JW Thank you John
Why don't they provide a master on/off switch on the incoming supply cut-out?
New installs get isolators and you can request one to be fitted but it's not free
Because that would be sensible at the cut out unit design stage. They’re not sensible unfortunately.