Cutout, Meter and Fusebox - Who Owns What?
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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2019
- Overview of a smaller UK domestic electrical installation, covering who owns which piece of equipment and what each item is for.
Who to call if the meter and cutout need relocating, and why never to attempt moving them yourself.
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My nans old cottage in huntingdon (UK) had bare wires running across the beams (assume these were live & neutral/ earth) in her 5' high cellar, these wires were attached to small white insulators about every three feet that had been nailed to the wood beams.
My granddad who was 6' and had a bald head received a number of electric shocks to his head when walking under the beams.
He told me that his father had said the wires sere installed in the late 1930's.
Fortunately this system has now being replaced but the old wires, though disconnected are still there.
Great video and thanks for sharing
👍👍👍
Sounds like 1920s electrics needs urgent replacing.
May well have been a DC supply from a local supplier
I encountered a similar dangerous setup when looking at a new home with my parents back around 1980. Didn't buy that one.
That took me back, when I was an electrician back in the 70s I fitted scores of those Wylex consumer units. Not seen one for years. I find your videos so interesting. Thank you.
Hello mate, my meter is reversed since I moved here and I want to make it back as it was, how do I do that, where do I find any info about reversing , is it hard to make it back as it was so it starts counting?
Many thanks for taking the time to produce this. Really appreciated 👍
Thanks for that explanation. I had often wondered who owned what in this very familiar scenario. The set-up used for the practical demonstration was the icing on the cake. Thanks again!
Great video. Love the little details you throw in. No doubt most of us here work in the industry, but we're all learning something from John Ward!
John, just brilliant and your dry humor is an added bonus. I always refer to your channel when I am working on electrics - your a star, thank you.
i had a fuseboard which caught a light and was melting from the wall, went outside and pulled the main fuse straight away, none of this nonsense with calling up the DNO because I touched their main cut out fuse. situations like that call for drastic measures as far as I'm concerned, thank you for the video JW. a nice presentation.
Tbh, only an anal person wouldnt pull the main fuse to get work done. The DNO and meter bleeders ignore cut tags, the just want to get home.
@@UberAlphaSirus It's been mentioned on a number of UK sparky channels that the DNO and meter installers take ths view that the seal is there to show that they have done their job at installation time.
That’s still true in Europe - if you call them right away *after* with a plausible story, nobody is fussed about the seal on the fuse being gone. But you shouldn’t look like you’re the kind of person who might have a grow house on the second floor hooked up when they’re not looking.
Pulling the main fuse from the cut-out without protective gloves can be a dangerous exercise, on rare occasions the fault can be from the cut-out arcing, which can cause surface voltage at the cut-out, not only that would you know if the main fuse carrier at the cut-out was damaged or not,
ticktock T a ceramic screw thread fuse holder might work better - you don’t really have an air path between where the arc would start and your hands.
Really interesting. Thank you for uploading.
Ps. Congrats on 100k!
I recently had the ancient overhead cable and the cable to the service header replaced for free. The overhead cable is fused at the pole but I forgot to ask what the rating is. I imagine it's something around 200 amps as the service header fuse is 100 amp. The guys were really helpful and informative. They seemed rather chuffed that someone was taking an interest in what they do giving me a tour of their vans and equipment and showing me training videos. Good blokes.
Even though this is a demonstration unit and not connected to the supply, seeing you poke around that with a metal screwdriver gives me the heebie-jeebies!
Excellent production and content as ever. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to film and share. All the best Pete
Watching you video on this brings back memories of the old boxes the smell of bakelite was great
how things have got safer but the nostalgia is still alive
Things are not safer just more complicated, there were higher safety standars decades ago when we had proper DC supplies!
@@ebbay7361when did you have dc mains supplies
Very nostalgic and interesting, remember well the old TN-S supply.
This was / is excellent to watch. Very informative. This is the second video of yours that I've watched (earthing / bonding being the first), and I've just now subscribed. You've quite a unique way of explaining which makes learning easier for an older fella like me.
All so true!
Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old).
He said,
"I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you."
I laughed and said,
"Well, good luck with that!"
He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job.
Probably better quality than anything provided by the DNO later.
@@johndododoe1411 Absolutely !
The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
Also a historic note on those fuses... I think you have covered it before, but if you try and replace the Wylex fuse carrier after a fuse blows, and the fault still exists, the fuse blows quite violently sending little bits and bobs right into the spot where your fingers are on the finger holds. That's why they're all meant to say TURN OFF BEFORE REMOVING FUSES.
We still use in Malaysia
@@sugumaranperiasamy7101 We still use in the UK, we just don't fit. them anymore, there are millions still in existing use though.
If you try to put a fuse in a 100a circuit after an open and possible fault without opening the the consumer isolation switch and breakers, then you probably shouldn't be replacing the cutout anyway... I would probably put a small load across the carrier say 3kv kettle in a apocalyptic situation to check for dead short
@@T2D.SteveArcs "3kv kettle"
Wow !
Some powerful kettle you have there !
@@jonesconrad1 i had one that had a lose connection , lots of sparks and went off , still no idea why but it appear the switch failed for some reason , i could get the power back on by moving the main switch , no one had been near it and only 60 years old lol
our elec system is a modern old mix.....we got the modern key token meter that eventually connects to the brown fuse box...which is a larger version of what is seen in this video with the ceramic plug things. i just have to love the reassuring 'clunk' sound the switch makes when you flick the 'on/off' switch down or up.
11:30 things take a very dark and dramatic turn. LOL!!! Best.Cause.And.Effect.Ever.
Thank you John. I've absolutely no desire to put my hands anywhere near one of these ugly and dangerous looking devices but I do thank you for showing me what's inside.
The replacement smart meter is far more dangerous to your health
Excellent lesson from JW Thank you John
Informative and explained clearly, interesting on the Yellow 20 amp fuse carrier. Thanks for sharing.
I had my domestic supply changed to 3 phase recently, very interesting watching the DNO connect to the 1960s four core sheathed lead wrapped street supply run in the foot path. Each core was left with its insulation on, and clip on bite connectors used to splice on the feed, then large plastic boot, filled with a two pack sealant. The old single phase cable was cut, potted and left live under the path.
I would love to have seen that.
yep watched them repair the feed to my garage (3 phase) same procedure, dug up the street and they cut out a bad section of the leaded cable. and used the crimpy things then filled with epoxy, thankfully my garage had its supply renewed in the 90's so was on modern cable all the way out to the street, but the office next door were on the old leaded cable and thats where it faulted, burned a nice hole in it, should have taken pics.
Seen this done many times in my time as a spark, chatted with the guys doing it , had to laugh he was using the high voltage cable as a seat while doing the connections!
That's something I've always wondered if you don't mind me asking *roughly* how much did they charge for switching to 3 phase? I can't imagine it was cheap.
@@Firecul £ 3.6 K in 2018 for the DNO including cutoff and meter box, excludes trench from path to house. Contact your DNO, that's part of their job.
20:49 - having removed the fuseboard cover, you can park the lid upside down using the same screw fitted into the upper screw hole an inch or so above the hole normally used by the lid screw. I can't think of another purpose for this extra screw hole !
Just a few days ago we had everything replaced on ours from the cable onward. The backboard was disintegrating the head was falling off and the meter was dead. Due to a leak in the roof. We were lucky the whole wall was soaking wet and the water was running over the head . Lucky nothing caught fire and nobody died. I kept everyone away as soon as it was discovered in the garage. Our substation and supply is at the bottom of our garden so a nice potential of 800 amps if things had gone south. The DNO did a grand job and explained everything, backing up everything you have said. Fitting every thing new and also upgrading our 60 amp tails to 100 amp as a bonus. Smart meter fitted a few days later and the meter guy was really appreciative of brand new kit to fit to.
Very interesting and informative John, thank you. 👍
Thank you. Very informative and interesting. Good to get this information from an expert!
This was really interesting! We've just had the 66 year old fuse box (identical to your example but cream coloured) replaced after a short in the garage blew the power circuit (not just the fuse wire but the whole of the socket in the box underneath it!) The meters (gas and electric) were replaced about nine months ago with smart meters replacing the same rotating disc type shown here. We now have a nice modern consumer unit paid for by the extra house insurance on the pipes and electrics - thank goodness! Only problem is now we have to replace some light fittings as we never knew the council hadn't fitted the light circuits with an earth (all bakelite fittings back in the '50s) Thanks for all the info!
We still had this system up until about 15-20 years ago, so relieved when we updated our main consumer unit with RCD protected circuits, so much safer!
@@danw1374 You're right it is a lot safer - but its still a right pain in the backside when something which would not have bothered the old fuse wire trips the darned rcd! Had a problem on Christmas eve - the main rcd tripped, reset and a few hours later went again this time the ground floor sockets tripped on turning back on. Unplugged everything and re-plugged one by one - no problem. Day after Boxing day off it went again, this time as we were going to bed with everything turned off - reset, off to bed then woke up at 2am when power went out. Wouldn't reset so put a couple of extension leads on the emergency sockets for the fridges and freezers. Next morning did the unplugging ritual again and (hopefully) traced it to the plug which goes out through the wall and into the porch from the outside (no other way to get power there at the time it was built) The pvc pipes the cable runs through are pretty much weathered to fragile dust and it was raining hard when the power went out! Unplugged the porch and no more problems - now need to re-wire the porch! (This time under some new plastic cladding!!) Ah well, that's progress!
Still have this setup in my house. One fuse holder had been “rewired” with a length of electrical solder when I moved in!! Got a qualified electrician replacing the consumer unit, meter tails and testing the whole of wiring.
It's fuse wire
That looked exactly like the set up in my parents place, though I'm pleased to say they have since had the fuse box replaced with a new(er) consumer unit.
Excellent video thanks JW
My grandma's house has such old equipment but no earth connection.We asked the company to provide the earth terminals using TT and they've done it without any problems, leaving earth cables to light and socket circuitry. Now for the sockets it's our responsability to replace them with newer ones, either DYU or qualified electrician. The equipment is still in good shape and working fine and the wood also ok
Thank you for bring me up to date
I remember as a child (65 years ago plus) there was an incoming fuse on both line and neutral. I often worried that the neutral fuse would blow in preference to the line, cutting off the supply to the house but leaving all the line connections live!
Peter Jones you worried about that as a child? 🤓😉
I retired from don a couple of years ago, and we still used to come across the odd cut out, metal clad, which had a rewritable fuse in live and neutral. This was classed as an emergency, and would be changed to a new one on the same day. We also had to check the rest of the street to see they were ok.
There's still loads of fused neutrals out there if we find one we have to check 5 houses either side and replace any we find
I’m a meter fitter and came across a fused neutral last week, job aborted and reported to DNO
@@percyprod165 Reminds me of when a very young meter reader, probably agency, took the KW/h reading and swapped out the meter. He then remarked on the ancient, cast iron fuse box - 1 fuse in phase, 1 in neutral - that feeds the meter. (It has been there since the 1930's and is almost a century old).
He said,
"I'll mention this old, obsolete fuse box to the office when I get back, and suggest they upgrade it for you."
I laughed and said,
"Well, good luck with that!"
He left looking puzzled. That was 20 years ago, and the old box is still there as I write, doing its job. The young guy probably didn't know that any attempt to move the old (ancient?) cable, with gutta percha and pitch insulation would result in a catastrophic electrical explosion. We just had one of these underground explosions recently in my town, and that without moving it.
Had the exact same old cable failure last week. 33m of cable pulled out of conduit and replaced with new PVC, because the old one was way too brittle, and shorted out after being disturbed. Also had to dig in the plaster a little, to get the buried junction box that was there, and while I was there replaced the old non used 2 way switching, as the lights are now on a group photocell, so there are now plain blank plates installed.
Now got to some time replace the other 5 near identical layouts, as that is I suspect the cause of very random tripping, but that is a lot of old wire to persuade out, and I do not get paid as I actually live here. Will be done as the lights themselves fail one by one, which was the case here, a 30 year old fitting cracked, and I did the entire group as a unit, after making safe at 9PM.
PILC-paper Insulated lead covered-cable is a mare to work with, had to a do a sub joint onto one of these for a temp supply on a job years ago on a prison wing.
Congrats on the 100K subs John.
Hugely interesting. The importance of older installations being potentially dangerous if anything is moved is something most people don't consider. Great clarity on who owns what. Great video. Well done😀
not seen a meter like that in years, last one i saw was going backwards with a selma battery charger..
A point worth repeating is with the metal version of this Wylex board, if using rewireable fuses as here always replace the fuse cover. If you don't, when a fuse blows it's possible for an arc to strike from the live side to the metalwork with only the main/service fuse between it and the incoming supply.
Hi John, thanks for the video. In the UK supply heads tend to be surface mounted on a board, for the sake of safety, is there a way of enclosing the supply into a metal box?
Buried incoming cable faults often occur due to deteriorated insulation. Where I live there were quite a few of them in the same local area quite recently. Large chunks of the 3 core aluminium 3 phase cable (to which the single phase connections to individual houses are connected) were dug up and replaced, when the feed from the “local transformer” tripped out with several houses suffering from power cuts. The “local transformer” feed tripped out when the cores were no longer insulated from each other, due to water leaking in from the ground. I think they were between 30 and 40 years old.
Probably Consac mains cable. Consac was in common use from the '70s to early '90s and is prone to failure. Best underground cable has to be PILC.
Hi Recently retired DNO Jointer/fitter/Faultsman.
A couple of clarifications, The lead sheath of all cables are NOT earth conductors, they are a protective sheath that is earthed for its own protection. Not to provide an earth. A separate earth conductor is required ( this is a very common assumption but the earth value of the sheath is not guaranteed by the DNO, Note many DNO staff don't know this because of historical practice, The electricity Supply regulations are what apply not IEE Regs).
The Henley cut out, all of these Henly cutouts have a max fuse rating of 60a if they are "Half Clip", as this one is (the metal holding the fuse in place only goes around half of the fuse), if the metal goes all the way around the fuse its 89/100a. Saying that the type you have here is Half clip and the full clip type stick out further and you will see a line facing you where the holder comes apart, and maybe labeled 80a. If no label assume 60a.
They are also not always compound filled, around 60% are, if the service comes from another property they will be unfilled as the cable is vulcanized rubber, red hessian sheath if its not covered in paint etc.
When it comes to changing the cutout or moving it, you are right to say don't try yourself...... but they can be moved or replaced by trained staff, they are done live, even if filled with compound, its messy and hard work if in a small cupboard, Face visor, gloves and flash retardant overalls is the modern attire, yes people have died doing it, a tiny number, yes many have had shocks, yes its not done so much nowadays but millions have been done and still get done by trained staff. The accident rate is tiny because of the training. Its just as risky as cutting the cable outside unless you have the small cupboard situation or think its damaged.
The situation on fuse protection of the cut out. In practice the fuse rating at the substation, is in order of commonality, 500a, 400a/630a, 350a.....an 800a fuse is very very rare, not impossible but very rare due to the fact that changing one live is impossible on load without damaging the contacts.
Everything else is spot on and better than most videos who forget to mention not to cut the seals, I only mention, other than the lead sheath, for interest not criticism. Well done.
PS just remembered the compound leaks, 99.999% of those leaks are due to modern central heating making the ambient temp higher that the "flow" point of the compound, so other than mess its not a problem. the other 0.001% will be obvious by the smell of hot compound.
Cheers.
Thank You John. Well Explained.
great video content my question is how are electricians changing consumer units if there is no double pole islolator fitted by the DNO as you have stated that these are usually sealed and you are not suppose to remove . Seen video by David slavery where by he decided to pull main fuse so he could fit new consumer unit because as he stated why don't the DNO fit double pole isolator s standard as surely this is eager safety issue towards the electrician ??
Thanks for the info its much appreciated.
Brilliant. Many thanks for sharing.
As always very informative - pitch will flow at room temperature - I tested cables in the 1960s and to load the heated machine the operator attacked a steel drum of pitch with an axe before going home , the next day a black pudde was spread on the concrete floor, easily shoved up as it broke like glass when moved quickly - non Newtonian liquid?
How many people does it take to move a fuseboard?
Five...
- you
- need the landlord
- who needs the electrician
- who needs the electricity provider
- who needs the local distributor
You forgot to add in the boss of the house, otherwise you will get the reply, "You are not putting that there! No it's not going on the otherside of the bedroom wall!!"
@Ged Woods I think I have seen the same thing.
One person to say that the coffee machine isn't working.
One to be testing the said machine
One looking on pretending to be interested.
One looking on but couldn't be less interested
One reading over the cheat sheet, in case they missed something
I'm not sure what the sixth "crew" member is doing, but have ran out of ideas.
Thanks John
Hi john, excellent video.
Please would you consider making a in depth video on potential difference as with all the EV charging going on I think it would help me & others
Thanks again for your great help 👍
Brings back memories of working on council rewires.
Could you do a vid on some of the scams you have seen where people have tried to fiddle or bypass the meter
I was thinking the same. Be interesting to see.
I once visited a property where the 11kW power shower was connected directly to the mains supply ! Even better news; I forgave them !!
@@keithterry2169 you'd be suprised. As much as it's wrong I used to bypass meters, I used to get called out a lot when folk tried to DIY it thinking its as easy as connecting circuit wires pre-meter. I seen a grow house one time they basically drilled out the wall at the mains and chopped around the insulation and wired the place up directly from a split open cable. They were running amongst other things ten 1000watt lamps and the main cable was just hacked open
I’ve seen a DNO guy pull a cut out with a lead cable off the wall. The earth tag on the cable was knackered so he got into the tiny under stairs cupboard, took it off the wall and started peeling away some of the steel banding to fit a new one. He pretty much had the thing between his legs at one point 😂
There must be lots of stories going round of the insane things DNO guys have done lol. I saw one stick his bare finger up the inside of a live cut out to confirm it wasn't bunged.
We change cutouts live on lead cables everyday just smash the old cutout off pitch is brittle if you hit it then stick a new one on
@@0liver0verson9 I know a dude that done bypasses bare handed all he had was some insulated boots🤣 he didn't even care about getting shocked from a wall socket or light fitting, I thought it was deadly but he reckoned even a 240v wall socket ain't killing no 6ft man with a decent "ticker" the guy went onto tell me about ones that did land him in hospital and it was always them big wires coming in from the street and one was when he wired up a compressor it "stung him" while it was just starting up so was nasty af. He was adamant all sparkles have been shocked multiple times 🤷♂️
Thinking of separating my shed wiring connection, at present it goes from the house, prefer to have it wired from the meter box, how would you spilt it so you have a extra wire coming out to go towards the shed, thanks
Having an EV fitted. Aimed to get 100A fuse to replace existing 60A fuse. Contacted DNO. They told me about ownership and that I had to get tails changed from 16mm2 to 25mm2 before they would change fuse. Electricity supplier I was with would charge me about £250 for this. Changed electricity supplier. Booked in new supplier to change tails for free (3month lead time). Oh, cannot change tails because fuse holder does not accept 25mm2; DNO needs to change fuse holder. Meanwhile, also arranging electricity supplier to fit smart meters (3month lead time). Day arrived, E.ON computer system down all day. Meters could not be fitted. Re-arranged (1month lead time). Decided to stick with 16mm2 - DNO happy to fit 80A fuse on 16mm2. Now EV charger is fitted it emergency shuts off now and again because of overvoltage on supply. That is not going to be good for its relay contacts. We have an average of about 250V but it is very variable and, daily, experience brief excursions to 258V. Now awaiting a transformer tap change; no idea when. Most people I know with smart meters cannot get their wireless power meter displays to work. And the UK government want growth. I can't see it happening very quickly, can you?
I have been phoning everyone since March last year to try and get a fuse removed from my mums meter, and I started phoning her gas supplier, they told me to phone her old gas supplier, as the new supplier didn't fit it, then the old supplier told us to phone our local council, nearly 1 year later, and still no luck, until I saw this video, called sp energy, and they are calling me back in the next 2 days, and today is Feb 16th 2022, so hopefully get this fixed in the near future, thanks to this video.
This helped me a lot. Top man 👍
That fusebox needs a massive bundle of twin & earth as thick as your leg poking out the top, which connect to a disturbingly small number of fuses, all of which are the wrong rating. One of which has to be labelled "immersion" and in fact powers half the upstairs sockets too ;-)
Sorry, this setup is giving me flashbacks to an old house I used to rent where the lights dimmed if I ran the electric hob.
You forgot the 5 amp carrier powering the shed which actually has 30 amp fuse wire in it
It's pretty much our installation - except meter's a new electronic thing. The rest of the supply installation is as shown and as it's only worked for one century, it's barely run in yet. It's not due its first 1,000 year's service for another 900 years.
@@TheChipmunk2008 ... or a paper clip.
(for elimination purposes, all i wanted to do was prove the switch was dud and the fan was fine. I underestimated how much LESS conductive steel is than copper!)
@@James_Bowie just push a nail into the contacts for the carrier, and hope the cold, unheated house and over engineered ring main wiring is able to dissipate the heat...
My parents were paranoid about the house burning down, and I can see why given the fuse wire might not be correct.
back in the days people used to put huge powerful magnets on top of the old meter bit to slow the rotation down hence lower bills.
Very informative and interesting
Pretty good John. But 800a fuses lol? We used them out of hours to blast a short in mains underground cables to open circuit then backfeed to get folk on supply overnight. Never seen them used as protection though - 500a highest in my 30 odd years with SPEN.
Oh, as for solid links, there are link pillars in the streets, but they're fed from Substations with 400a fuses.
Great video. Thanks.
Cool video as ever and it will be interesting to see how the cables in our streets cope when we all have electric cars on charge at night. Another video on a smart meter install would also be cool also explaining which bit does what. It also occurs to me the £13Bn cost could have been used to build ten 400Mw offshore wind farms or a few tidal projects. Making power for us bill payers.
That would be a waste since those things cost more than they produce and create unrecyclable waste in huge quantities while destroying birds 24/7
You mentioned the service cable must not be tampered with, quite rightly so. It is a concern about the age of some of these cables, quite often the conductors are much smaller than retrofitted meter tails, unless the entire installation is similar to your example shown. I have seen the pitch leaking out of these cables because the property has been extended, more circuits added, then a situation arises that the demand is greater than what those cables can safely handle. A serious fire risk.
I have an overhead supply coming into my property. The service cable is over 40 years old. In fact, back in 2013, the dno replaced the bare 3 phase & neutral plus 6 metres of my and my neighbours service cable, but left the old stuff cleated to the walls of the property in use, they fixed a cable joint on the corner of the property to connect the new to the old, why they did not replace the lot is beyond me.
Good job sir .. very easy explen
Very useful information. Thanks
very good explanation. thanks
Please do a video about types of meter installations ie economy 7, contract switches, radio telle switches, types of meters and switching gear.
Excellent!
Great video
Can you do a show on Australian "smart meters" please?
Can you advise on how to rig an old style UK electricity meter such as this?
Hello John Really helpful video, thank you. All the equipment you show in your video is just inside my front door and the casing around the cables prevents the door opening properly. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve moving the meter etc. Electricians I have asked about the job don't seem interested. One told me I could chase the cables in to the wall and this could be done by a builder although the electricity supply cable I have appears to be in a solid 'pipe'. Is the advice I've been given true and safe? Thank you
The fusebox or consumer unit can be moved by an electrician.
The rest of it including the supply cable can only be moved by the network operator and your electricity supplier. The supply cable cannot be concealed in the wall.
@@jwflame Hello John I understand who moves what. I don't want to move anything because I'll have no option to then have a smart (notoriously inaccurate) meter. Can all the cables other than the supply cable go into the wall. I just need behind the door to be as flat as possible so I can open it properly!
OMG, im in stitches.... "If hot tar starts dripping out of here, contact this person"... "If flames start coming out of this part, contact that person" and advise them to upgrade the equipment LMFAOOOOOO
Looks just like the setup I have in a house I just bought, unfortunately everything is mounted on a large sheet of asbestos. Are you in need of some overtime :).
Such a steller presentation, as always. John, I know it varies wildly but can you give a rough ballpark estimate from what you have seen as to the cost to a homeowner to relocate their panel board that the head and meter are mounted in from the basement to an exterior location like a cabinet on the side of the house or an attached common area? Then, what would it cost for an electrician to come and run new tails from the meter to the new consumer unit, say no more than the 3 meters you mentioned? Very curious what something like that costs over there. Thanks as always!
£150-400ish depending on the amount of work needed
Still got that exact fuse box, although a 6-way version in better condition, I've got a digital meter, (not a smart one though, they're a rip - off!)
Also got that exact same head, but Interestingly mine is a "loop-in" system where, along with the main lead covered incoming cable, there is a second cable coming out of the head, which goes through a hole in the wall, under the floorboards to the house next door.
Thanks for a very good explanation of how the UK does electrical distribution. If an electrician was to change out the consumer fuse board is he allowed to disconnect the power from the cutout by taking out the fuse or disconnecting the live wire? Very much different from our main service wiring here in Canada.
Depends on the location - some DNOs allow some electricians to remove the fuse in some circumstances. Others not at all. Some may fit an isolator switch for free, or charge for one. It's generally a mess.
@@jwflame Thanks for the quick response. We cant touch the DNO's equipment and can be fined for not following there rules. ( Saskpower) Go back 20-30 years ago we could do what we need to get the power back on and connect a service change temporary till they had time to reconnect. Wow times have changed and every location here is different.
@@lylewatts6370 see over here in UK mate they can't accuse you of doing anything to the electric, nobody ever goes down for it not even the weed growers who get caught. They just say it was like that when they got there. The tags are a joke, a missing tag isnt even admissible as evidence, they merely there as a deterent.
I thought I would add, not to put a bonding clamp on a lead cable or tighten up an existing one, due to risk of blowing things up. The DNO has to come and solder a new tab to it.
This is a basic question but here goes. How can live always be live if the supply is AC. Is it because, although the current and voltage oscillate. the fact that the neutral is tied to earth means that in theory you, the neutral and the earth are at the same potential and as such the potential is 0V even though that potential is swinging between -230V and +230V with respect to live
Excellent.
John, why do you earth to gas or waterpipe, the plumber is not a qualified electrician, so how do you know he has provided a good ground connection?
In Australia you need a dedicated earth stake or have the UK regs changed and gas or water is only in old connections?
Hi John. 13 years ago I had house renovations, during which DNO moved the supply/main fuse/meter from the outside wall and extended the supply cable. Unfortunately then fitted right in the corner of the internal wall behind the cupboard that the builder installed so I cant easily access the consumer unit. I am now getting old & inflexible so need to get the CU moved round to the left wall, within the cupboard so certainly within the 3 m you mentioned. I am now considering going off-peak on Eco7 tariff and getting a smart meter fitted for that. I would like a double pole isolator fitting to ease the move of the CU.. Would the best sequence be to get the meter changed first? And would a smart meter installer fit that isolator to facilitate moving the CU?
Some suppliers will fit an isolator at the same time as changing the meter so that is definitely the best option to go for.
@@jwflame thanks John! And you said the meter can be moved away, off the main fuse backboard, so is there a limit in the length of those tails? As part of the Smart Meter installation putting both meter and CU in an accessible part of the corner unit would be ideal. Maximum distance would be the length of a kitchen cupboard base; haven’t yet measured but *must* be less than 1 metre since that’s the maximum size of a base cupboard
That's really useful. Thanks. Question though. If dno provides the network, what am I paying the supplier for?
What you pay for electricity covers the electricity itself, the network distribution costs, government energy policies and plenty more.
www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/costs-your-energy-bill
I replaced a ceramic (china) fuse box once in a small mid terrace house. Never seen anything like it. I should have kept it. Ceramic fuses were quite common but this had a ceramic top cover as well. Very heavy. I didnt keep it as the fuse wire ran over asbestos pads.
Great video JW... I've been out to a number of properties where the distributors supply earth has a higher impedance than that permitted by BS 7671, when I've contacted UK Power Networks in the majority of cases, they relinquish any responsible of repair or replacement as the property is of a significant age. Does this seem right to you?
Well it’s there responsibility !! You have answered your own question.
ESQCRs say the DNO has a responsibility to maintain the earth connection whenever they provide it.
I reported a BS951 clamp recently at a property in central Birmingham. Instead of agreeing to deal with it, they cynically declared the earthing arrangement to be TT. They said they could 'convert' it to TN-S with a suitable connection to the lead sheath, but there would be a charge.
@@ted5hhh1241 Just wondered if there was some hidden clause JW might have known about.
@@westinthewest It already appears to be a TN-S system... The connection method to earth is what is in question. We could spend ages going back and forth with these crooks but that doesn't help our customers so very often we do what's necessary to sort it out ourselves.
In theory the DNO are supposed to maintain/repair an existing earth connection if they provided it originally.
Reality is often very different. Such as them just adding an RCD to the incoming supply because the impedance was ~10 ohms on what was supposed to be a TN-S service.
Thanks for all the videos and I really like your style very clear and direct. A question if I may? If AC is alternating why do we get concerned about touching the line only. Doesn’t the neutral carry current? (Alternating) sorry it’s a dumb question.. what I am missing?
Current isn't what matters - it's the voltage between the earth (what you are standing on) and the wire.
Neutral should always be at or near the same voltage as earth.
Line changes all the time between +230V or -230V relative to earth.
Ok, the alternating voltage is on line only.. I had assumed incorrectly that line and neutral alternated. Thank you all for clarifying.
Hi John, as always great and interesting content, Since changing to a different supplier my previous supply for electricity, British Gas have started charging me for electricity on a redundant meter
They have been estimating bills from this meter) I would like them to remove the redundant meter. Would British Gas be responsible for removing the redundant meter or would it be myself. What would the charge be fore removing the meter?
Only the supplier can remove or change a meter. Generally they don't charge for meter alterations.
Hi John, thanks for the reply and the great channel and content - Simon
I had solar panels fitted. Then my old mechanical meter started going backwards when the sun came out! :)
My supplier, who had to be told I had solar panels fitted, told me my meter was not compatible with solar and they were coming to change it. Pity!
Should have ignored them
@@haldo691 The meter belongs to them - they have the right to change it. :(
@@OC35 eon have been trying to change mine for 2 years just keep ignoring them
Excellent video John thankyou. Interestingly, there are 2 main fuses in a property I look after. One in a cupboard outside, which feeds a second consumer fuse inside the house before the meter. The DNO absolutely will not take responsibility for the second fuse even though it is in line before the meter. They will not replace the old concentric cable (a good 8-10mm CSA!) and remove the second fuse, saying it is our responsibility. Legally I don't know where we stand now, as the installation feels less than safe to me!
It’s been a while now, how did you get on with this situation? Who is the DNO in this case?
@@virtual3d993 Western Power and they are still refusing to amend it and remove the second fuse. No local contractor will touch it either sadly. Perhaps I should ask Chris from CJR electrical to ask Pedro to come round and sort it.
A poor stance by the DNO.
I work for a different DNO. I’ve seen this situation in our area once or twice.
Same sort of argument at the office….
In the end I arranged for the problem be sorted out from a customer service standpoint. Everyone in my office pulled a face and said “oo, I wouldn’t have endorsed that”.
Too bad for them all, it got sorted.
great video
My parents have a 1970s Wylex and the positioning of the warning amuses me. With the Wylex at eye level you can't read the warning about switching off until after you have removed the fuses it warned you not to remove.
Looking at the interior it was clearly designed to kill you!
What if the backboard is rotting away? Who do you call? DNO? Thank you for you videos :-)
Yes, call the DNO to replace - it's their backboard with their equipment fixed to it, so entirely their responsibility. In the UK, the number to call is 105.
What are the two ports for that in this case have the wooden plugs? I've never seen them in use even where a supply is daisy-chained to a neighbour where the out cable leaves beside the in cable at the bottom not the sides.
Options for cable entry, such as where the cable enters horizontally through a wall, the side one would be used and the others blanked off. Not intended for all of them to be used at the same time.
@@jwflame Thanks :-)
Hi John great video this is what I studied when I did my 16th edition IEE regs ends of 1980s and my city and guilds 2360 ,one point you talk of a 800amp fuse from the road I take it that will be from say one of the legs from the 3phase star (. L1,L2,L3 ) eg. L1. Would have a 800amp fuse but L1 would have a split to 4 houses after that fuse ?
When I get the money I am going to put my self through the 18th edition
Yes, one fuse per phase, and that is then split off to multiple houses. Usually a 3 phase cable in the street and each house connected to one of those phases.
Free 18th edition course from Sparky Ninja here: ruclips.net/p/PLg1OV4f2xHzVZMPyo_A8xd7s2jzd8WhP3
after which you can just pay for the exam at a local centre.
If you are asking how the homes are connected to the substation transformer, then yes houses will be tapped from one of the 3 phases, l1 l2 l3 from the distribution main in the street via joints along its run,each of these joints can accept a max of 4 service cables as well as the distribution main. The fusing in the substation that protects the distribution main is more like 315 to 630 amps, but John is still correct that these fuses will offer little to no protection for a short circuit at the end of the service cable in your house, such faults will usually burn themselves clear, this is one of the reasons i believe manufacturers deliberately make their concentric cable live conductors from aluminium because they know there is a very slim chance of upstream fuses operating and aluminium can melt easily. Even in the off chance a fuse back at the substation does operate the short circuit from the service cable will look like a roman cable and will still cause severe damage to it's surroundings and if you are in the vicinity without any ppe your pretty much fucked.
Dno's try to balance their network so if a housing estate has 150 homes then they will load 50 houses on each phase on the transformer.
@MissRiaElaine Hi, it is very common to have a 3 phase supply to a block of flats and then it gets split to single phase to supply each flat. Depending on the load of each flat, the main 3 phase incomer cutout (which is usually above the main door) will have either 100a fuses or solid links which will be red in colour in its cartridges.
Please update on new smart meters how to disconnect them if company refuses to be helpful during lockdown..
We had an old dial meter and solar panels fitted which resulted in the meter going backwards (major no-no in the UK). I reported this on the same day as the solar panel commissioning. The DNO were fine and this was typical problem, but the electrician that visited was over-the-top - we are going to prosecute you for turning the meter backwards. I had to prove to him the sun was out, that turning off the solar supply would stop the meter going backwards, that turning on a large load would turn the meter forwards, and the the paper work showing the panel commissioning date. After 1 hour he accepted that he would fit a new meter (that was his remit for the job), but he was are real pain; even to the level that he did not seam to understand that solar panels generated electricity so would turn the meter backwards if demand was less than solar generation.
Hi I have a radio teleswitch attached to my prepaid key meter , I have storage heaters which give me off peak hours. But one day/night I got 8 hours , next 10 hours and next 13 hours. The off peak hours are divided into 4 My electric is very cheap compared to everybody else know with storage heaters. Is this normal?
Hello John,
I need to replace my consumer unit and there is no isolator switch. The current consumer unit does not have RCDs and SPD.
I just bought the house recently and not moved in yet.
I am trying to contact DNO Western Power but no response yet. The supplier is The British Gas.
Please advise me. Many thanks, Ahmed
How do you wire up grid tie inverters? I see people plugging them into main sockets but surely this would affect the function of the RCDs?
Connected to their own individual circuit at the consumer unit.
If an RCD is required, then it's an individual RCBO or an RCD and MCB which is used for the inverter circuit only. Not permitted for an inverter to share an RCD with other circuits.
Wow, what a different way of doing things compared to here in Canada...
Not really crazy about having meter tails flapping around like that although back in the day there were "A" base meter sockets and short lengths of wire between the meter base and the main switch or service conduit.
kcocodill
Nice and easy to bypass these ones🤣
when the meter is changed do the electric company do it or does the DNO do it for them ? I noted the separate ownership.
Electricity supplier does it, either them directly or some use a separate company to deal with metering. DNO doesn't do anything with meters.
My board is very similar to the one shown. I don't like the idea of a smart meter in doors so I got a couple of quotes to shift the board to the outside wall. The power is delivered from overhead cables and there would be no need to extend any cables. The cost was £1200, with additional costs of installing the outside box and connecting up the consumer unit. The time needed to shift the board can be no more than 3-4 hours. I declined to have the job done!
Good price now .
In there day these were a joy to wire . Double screws on the terminals. Then someone came along said we can’t use them as they are combustible.so what did we use plastic that’s 50 times more combustible