The Trial of Galileo: What Really Happened?

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  • Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2024
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    -------------------------VIDEO NOTES-------------------------
    The trial of Galileo is one of the most misrepresented, and therefore misunderstood, events in the history of science and religion. My supporters on Patreon voted to see a video covering what happened in this infamous sentencing, hopefully clearing up some misconceptions and bringing to light some interesting facts.
    -------------------------------LINKS--------------------------------
    Galileo's Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany, 1615: web.stanford.e...
    Galileo, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, 1632: archive.org/st...
    Account of Galileo's trial: web.archive.or...
    Much of this video draws on Gary B. Ferngren's 'Science and Religion' (chapter eight particularly), available here: amzn.to/35HmZ9X
    --------------
    Some useful further reading:
    Drake, Stillman. Galileo: A Very Short Introduction. Introduction, Chs. 1-5.
    Brooke, John Hedley, Science and Religion: Some Historical Perspectives, 99-109.
    Miller, David Marshall. “The Thirty Years War and the Galileo Affair,” History of Science 46 (2008): 49-74.
    Ferngren, Gary. Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction (John Hopkins: 2002), 95-116
    Numbers, Ron. Galileo Goes to Jail and other myths about science and religion, 68-78
    Finochiario, Maurice. Retrying Galileo. (University of California Press, 2007)
    Shea, William, “Galileo and the Church,” in God & Nature, eds. David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers, (University of California Press, 1986): 114-135.
    Danielson, Denis, “The great Copernican cliché,” American Journal of Physics 69(2001): 1029-1035.
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Комментарии • 1,7 тыс.

  • @CosmicSkeptic
    @CosmicSkeptic  5 лет назад +311

    TIMESTAMPS:
    Part One: Context | 1:46
    Part Two: Galileo's Justification | 4:14
    Part Three: Galileo's "Warning" | 6:54
    Part Four: The Dialogue | 9:05
    Part Five: The Trial | 11:05
    Part Six: The Sentence | 15:03
    Conclusion | 17:06

    • @tedphillips2501
      @tedphillips2501 5 лет назад +5

      Is your left eye becoming a lazy eye ? Also, you are missing the theological explanation for why the Earth, as a fallen entity, was at the center, the drain down which all vile things went, of the universe. You are not getting a good education at Cambridge.

    • @gfxpimp
      @gfxpimp 5 лет назад +18

      @@tedphillips2501 Ah, yes. Anything that is definitively proved false, suddenly becomes metaphorical. Anything that is unknown or unknowable, we are free to claim is true.... until we are forced to call it metaphorical.

    • @bengreen171
      @bengreen171 5 лет назад +16

      @@tedphillips2501
      ....I think he's at Oxford - which is as irrelevant as your explanation of the theological view of geocentrism. The important fact is, as CS says, that the Church was wrong, and they silenced honest scientific study, rather than admit they were fallible.

    • @oliverhug3
      @oliverhug3 5 лет назад

      Ted Phillips , Earth is a fallen entity ⁉️

    • @joelhenderson3723
      @joelhenderson3723 5 лет назад +7

      I've been watching your videos for quite a while now, and finally subscribed a couple weeks ago. I'm always impressed by the level of information presented, and your honest effort to treat topics seriously- not just as a political hackjob. So Thanks for all the content, and I hope to keep seeing it for years to come.

  • @metajaji4249
    @metajaji4249 5 лет назад +1438

    who else wouldnt mind more cosmic-historian vids???

    • @dawnelizabeth1828
      @dawnelizabeth1828 5 лет назад +12

      I'd love that myself, thanks.

    • @blackatheist7369
      @blackatheist7369 5 лет назад +10

      I wouldn’t mind .In fact I will LOVE to see more

    • @michaelmagdy6647
      @michaelmagdy6647 5 лет назад +3

      @@blackatheist7369 I had the intuition to click on that *see more* .
      Not one of my proud moments.

    • @anthonynorman7545
      @anthonynorman7545 5 лет назад +3

      @宇宙不思議な try Crash Course, Extra Credits or Overly Sarcastic Productions
      Some quality content

    • @sovietbot6708
      @sovietbot6708 5 лет назад

      I would love that. I love history

  • @purugigi
    @purugigi 5 лет назад +358

    Honestly, you should do more science history videos like this one

    • @kylekazimir99
      @kylekazimir99 4 года назад +1

      agreed

    • @Siska0Robert
      @Siska0Robert 3 года назад +3

      The story of Hypatia is fascinating as well.

    • @Alnivol666
      @Alnivol666 2 года назад +2

      No...he shouldn't. He is not a historian and it shows to anybody who has a basic grasp of the subjects he is talking about. He is way out of his depth. Too bad the damage he is doing will never get fixed.

    • @purugigi
      @purugigi 2 года назад +5

      @@Alnivol666 , how so?

    • @LittleLionHaw
      @LittleLionHaw Год назад +1

      ​@@Alnivol666yes I am also interested in what specifically in this video you take issue with? If there are inaccuracies then I'd genuinely like to know

  • @ShadowZZZ
    @ShadowZZZ 5 лет назад +287

    I love how when Stephen Hawking first visited the vatican, his first with was to see the manuscripts of galileo.... whadda bad ass

    • @____________________drunk1737
      @____________________drunk1737 4 года назад +6

      wait really

    • @Kitiwake
      @Kitiwake 4 года назад +22

      He got some shock when he found out that the general Galileo story was a lie.

    • @MrWig100
      @MrWig100 2 года назад +5

      @@Kitiwake More of a myth than a lie. Though it is argued that a myth is a lie.

    • @karlazeen
      @karlazeen 2 года назад +1

      What was the newly discovered story?

  • @NessieJapan
    @NessieJapan 5 лет назад +639

    Galileo: The original "Facts don't care about your feelings"!

    • @michaeljones1686
      @michaeljones1686 5 лет назад +117

      Galileo destroys the catholic church with facts and logic

    • @Ixnatifual
      @Ixnatifual 5 лет назад +47

      I would subscribe to Galileo’s channel despite the sensationalist way he titles his videos.

    • @xsuploader
      @xsuploader 5 лет назад +67

      its funny you mention something shapiro said.
      Shapiro would probably try to argue that the church are responsible for galileos achievements.

    • @michaeljones1686
      @michaeljones1686 5 лет назад +5

      I don't think he would, Ben Shapiro is usually reasonable.

    • @averageenjoyer4048
      @averageenjoyer4048 4 года назад +48

      @Michael Jones
      😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂

  • @Paulogia
    @Paulogia 5 лет назад +255

    Thank you for this. I learned a lot.

    • @MsDjessa
      @MsDjessa 4 года назад +8

      Yeah I find this very useful.
      You see a cleaned up version was once offered to me in a RUclips comment section by an apologist. Who seemed to have bought the official church version. Like CS said, the church would still look bad. The apologist gave me a link to a modern article written by the church. Here's the kicker, it was written by Ratzinger. Now I know this is a bit poisoning the well but I don't trust a guy who we know have been involved with hiding the child abuse of the church.
      And that being said, considering what the church does now, I doubt it was any more honest in the past.

    • @enkh-erdenebatbold1177
      @enkh-erdenebatbold1177 3 года назад +1

      More weight

    • @everyzan-m2q
      @everyzan-m2q 2 года назад

      This video was complete historical garbage. It was laughable, and if you could commit a crime against education and scientific learning, this would be it. Alex fabricated or misrepresented everything, including the whole scenario involving the Church fabricating evidence against Galileo (which is quite ironic).
      Tim ONeill completely destroyed this patent garbage of a video. Look up his blog History for Atheists - note Tim is an atheist himself.

    • @danieleyre8913
      @danieleyre8913 Год назад

      You learned nothing valid. This video is appallingly poor in terms of historical accuracy and analysis.

  • @hitm43
    @hitm43 5 лет назад +160

    The most remarkable fact is that the catholic church formally apologized but not until about 30 years ago:
    “The question of Galileo’s heresy, however, remained open until 1992. After three centuries, Pope John Paul II formally acknowledged that Galileo had been wrongfully condemned, and that his judges had erred in insisting upon the literal reading of Holy Scripture as the way to understand the physical world.” Burton The History of Mathematics page 347

    • @alienufoweird
      @alienufoweird 4 года назад +15

      They had to as to not lose followers but that doesn't change the fact that today they still brainwash people and hide pedophile priests all over the world.

    • @johnnotrealname8168
      @johnnotrealname8168 4 года назад

      Yeah I am not so sure.

    • @boothvrstudio
      @boothvrstudio 4 года назад +1

      Thank you for pointing this fact out.

    • @cotaryan3740
      @cotaryan3740 4 года назад +2

      alienufoweird you left out they also feed, cloth, and shelter more people around the world than any other institution

    • @strangething4322
      @strangething4322 4 года назад +1

      @@cotaryan3740 sauce?

  • @andreaandrea2469
    @andreaandrea2469 5 лет назад +242

    "thunderbolts and lightings very very frighten me"
    Galileo

    • @00camttam
      @00camttam 5 лет назад +9

      Galileo!!!! (Sorry for this other dude... nobody knows who invited him!)

    • @istvanszennai5209
      @istvanszennai5209 5 лет назад +8

      isn’t it ironic that the cross on the top of the church is likely to attract lightning? :F

    • @vegannonextreme5318
      @vegannonextreme5318 5 лет назад +2

      Zatchooze Naut let him go

    • @Acoolakim007
      @Acoolakim007 5 лет назад +4

      He's just a poor boy from a poor family.
      Spare him his life from this monstrosity.

    • @vegannonextreme5318
      @vegannonextreme5318 5 лет назад +4

      TapIntoTheEssence mama ooooooo sometimes I wish I never been born at aaaaaaallllll

  • @robertcartier5088
    @robertcartier5088 4 года назад +13

    "And yet, it moves."
    Brilliant video!

  • @lukaszkulasek
    @lukaszkulasek 5 лет назад +163

    Could we have a video about Salem witch trials? This is also very interesting.

    • @PassionPno
      @PassionPno 4 года назад

      Yes please!

    • @acupanraphaelgio7925
      @acupanraphaelgio7925 4 года назад

      Yes please!!

    • @seasonalsnap3846
      @seasonalsnap3846 3 года назад

      Yes please!!!

    • @everyzan-m2q
      @everyzan-m2q 2 года назад +3

      Not by Alex, everything in this video is either blatant lie or complete distortion of the historical events. Tim
      ONeill destroyed this piece pretty terribly

    • @generaltom6850
      @generaltom6850 7 месяцев назад

      ⁠@@everyzan-m2q Okay, tell me what exactly was “a blatant lie” or “distorted” and then you will be taken seriously.

  • @panqueque445
    @panqueque445 3 года назад +13

    Imagine how powerless he must've felt when even though he produced the original letter, they still went ahead and only took their forgery into account.

    • @martinstacey4301
      @martinstacey4301 2 года назад

      He did not produce an original letter. His letter was from Cardinal Bellarmine, head of the Inquisition, stating that Galileo was a good Catholic who wasn't in trouble with the authorities and had been informed of the injunction to not defend heliocentricity. What the Inquisition produced was a memo stating that Galileo had been issued a private injunction to not teach, hold or defend the Copernican system in any way, or something to that effect. They were separate documents. Skeptic gets a crucial part of the story wrong. I've read two autobiographies of Galileo and a biographical account of his journeys to Rome written by leading scholars and none say that the memo was forged. He might have gotten away with his book by promising to rewrite it correctly, but disobeying an injunction and deceiving a powerful man like the Pope, who went ballistic when he heard about it, was a different thing altogether. That's what finished him off.

  • @ltmcolen
    @ltmcolen 5 лет назад +11

    I've been following you for a couple of years.
    I admire the fact you're studying Theology right now.
    You look at things on a factual basis.
    This time I subscribed.

  • @FerencDojcsak
    @FerencDojcsak 4 года назад +24

    Now, while a heretic and godless atheist myself, I must put a couple comments here, in quasi-defense of the inquisitors, as I too, as part of my philosophy and history of science curricula, had to deal with Galileo and his Dialog.
    1. let's not forget that by that time, there was no scientific method yet and as such, the church's could not have been opposing the scientific method
    2. the quote, that they prosecuted Galileo because he "was wrong" also does not imply that they were against scientific discovery per se - in a time where there was no scientific method yet, and facts about nature were understood to be one way of god revealing himself, they were more concerned about these discoveries controlled and overseen by the church (see how Aristotelian philosophy was implemented to theology, especially with Thomism - this effort was not done by proponents of heliocentrism)
    3. Galileo, as mentioned above, did not really care to synthesize heliocentrism with theology or the edicts of the church. One could argue that as science was slowly born, contradictions as such were inevitable and attempts on mentioned synthesis became more and more futile. One could, however, not argue, that Galileo made the slightest attempts to do so; in fact, if any of you read 'Dialogo', you can see that arguing for heliocentrism is a mild statement - he was essentially ridiculing geocentrism. Galileo also, like an annoying celebrity these days, used his fame to propose his theories and incomplete mathematical workings, without mentioning the adequate criticism on them - criticism not just from the church.
    4. as Alex mentioned, heliocentrism was not established by this time. In fact, the model faced serious challenges, and not just from the state (although some of the criticism of the inquisitors, such as they mentioning the problems with Galileo's scope, had merit): Tycho Brahe, Peter Crüger, Johann Locher, and other pointed out problems with heliocentrism, on scientific, not on religious basis - however, Galileo either did not adress those, or outright ridiculed them in 'Dialogo' (f.e. Locher's 'Disquisitions').
    5. in summary, yes, Galileo was prosecuted because he was opposing the church, and yes, he was an important and inspiring figure in the history of science. However, his opposition wasn't all scientific. In fact, a lot of his conduct would, by today's standard, count as pseudoscientific.

    • @players02
      @players02 4 года назад

      Interesting, what led you to dig into this?

    • @matswessling6600
      @matswessling6600 Год назад +1

      1. wrong. They where against that observation trumps doctrin, which is central to science (empirism)
      2. you can't blane galileo for that the church dogma doesnt follow observation

    • @mikev4621
      @mikev4621 Год назад

      Hadn't Bacon outlined scientific method by about this time?

    • @toonyandfriends1915
      @toonyandfriends1915 Год назад +1

      @@matswessling6600 lmfao what a poor defence

    • @matswessling6600
      @matswessling6600 Год назад +1

      @@toonyandfriends1915laugh al you want. it wont make you right.

  • @eccentriastes6273
    @eccentriastes6273 5 лет назад +22

    It's amazing how many people will try to defend the church in this one by implying that because the exaggerated version of events that persists in popular consciousness is wrong, that means what the church did is basically okay.

    • @johnnotrealname8168
      @johnnotrealname8168 4 года назад +10

      They defended the Scientific Consensus of the day. Something Scientists do today (of course not as harsh).

    • @rc7625
      @rc7625 4 года назад +1

      @@johnnotrealname8168 Christ (pun intended lol), shut the fuck up already. You're annoying, dude. Get a life.

    • @Dutcheh
      @Dutcheh 2 года назад +5

      Many of the brightest mathematicians and natural philosophers disagreed with galileo. They had the their “scientific method” of the time that worked to prove the geocentric model. The church was the entity that pushed and flourished science. During this period it was the 30 years war so it was very important to the Church that authority was not challenged improperly. Lives were literally at stake. Galileo was known to be ill tempered and when he published his work as scientific fact instead of opposing view he was in trouble. He also insulted the pope which in itself was troubling for his case. The church put him under houses arrest. Everything that happened is understandable in context. It’s like someone 30 years ago arguing that string theory is absolute fact and everyone is wrong. and then insulted the president/king etc. People would be upset.

    • @SireJaxs
      @SireJaxs 5 месяцев назад

      galileo shouldve just listened to the church by giving his theory as a hypothesis than literal truth like hd di because he never proved heliocentrism, that was later on, he also was never burned at the stake, he died at old age in his lavish home.
      please, get off reddit and quit being a collectivist who hates nuance because you hate christians.

  • @TheRealGuywithoutaMustache
    @TheRealGuywithoutaMustache 5 лет назад +122

    They hated Galileo because he spoke the truth.

    • @Random25.
      @Random25. 5 лет назад +6

      Bro I see you on every video I watch

    • @vaibhavsati538
      @vaibhavsati538 5 лет назад +5

      @@Random25. he's just some guy

    • @hexum7
      @hexum7 5 лет назад +13

      I think they didn’t give two shits about the truth. Galileo represented a challenge to the church’s power. Which was based on the claim of infallibility
      None of them cared if the earth revolved around the ☀️ as long as the 🌎 revolved around the church

    • @ericalbers4867
      @ericalbers4867 4 года назад +3

      He didn't speak the truth since at the time, heliocentrism wasn't fact. However what he says did call into question biblical scripture - and that is what for him in trouble and made made them mad.
      Anything that contradicts or questions scripture is attacked with every bit of apologetics and double talk they can conjure up. Honestly it makes me consider that there must be a god or some type. I have no idea where else they obtain their seemingly endless supply of bullshit from. It seems to outweigh even dark matter.

    • @ec6211
      @ec6211 4 года назад

      @Wade Haden - Master Jedi Engineer Goth It's actually a normal trait amongst people who are brainwashed to believe in something, beyond any doubt.

  • @sree-cv5qb
    @sree-cv5qb 5 лет назад +2

    I have been dying to know about Galelio's trial since childhood.Many Thanks for presenting this topic. And Welcome Back!! We have been waiting for you.

  • @CatholicaTV
    @CatholicaTV 4 года назад +7

    Thanks for this balanced summary, Alex! I'm glad St. John Paul II apologised on behalf of the church for this in 1992…even if the actual, real story is more nuanced than the version that gets shared around today.

  • @francoisrd
    @francoisrd 5 лет назад +9

    More historical videos like this please!

  • @LouisGedo
    @LouisGedo 5 лет назад +9

    *Congrats on 300K subs!* Been with your channel for a few years now and it's wonderful to see you discuss the controversial and importantly pressing issues that you now do.

    • @Wearephuct-O
      @Wearephuct-O 5 лет назад +3

      Logic And 300K Subs Destroys Historical Fallacy Every Time

    • @LouisGedo
      @LouisGedo 5 лет назад +1

      @@Wearephuct-O You first again? :)

    • @Wearephuct-O
      @Wearephuct-O 5 лет назад

      @@LouisGedo You're first in my book

  • @DimaKotik
    @DimaKotik 5 лет назад +41

    An omitted detail: Galileo represented the RCC's view with a character he named Simplicio (dummy).

    • @bitcoinweasel9274
      @bitcoinweasel9274 5 лет назад +19

      Galileo wasn't quite that blunt, It's a little more nuanced that that. From wikipedia:
      Simplicio, a dedicated follower of Ptolemy and Aristotle, presents the traditional views and the arguments against the Copernican position. He is supposedly named after Simplicius of Cilicia, a sixth-century commentator on Aristotle, but it was suspected the name was a double entendre, as the Italian for "simple" (as in "simple minded") is "semplice".[8] Simplicio is modeled on two contemporary conservative philosophers, Lodovico delle Colombe (1565-1616?), Galileo's opponent, and Cesare Cremonini (1550-1631), a Paduan colleague who had refused to look through the telescope.
      Still worth noting that maybe Galileo would've faired better if he wasn't quite so damned clever.

    • @jacovichstabs841
      @jacovichstabs841 5 лет назад +7

      @@bitcoinweasel9274 Which just goes to show the brutality of religious dogma, that it punishes the virtue of being clever.

    • @akizeta
      @akizeta 4 года назад +4

      "Clever" has two meanings, after all: firstly, the opposite of simple, and second, being duplicitous or manipulative. It's best to be only as clever as you need to be, and not _too_ clever.

    • @johnnotrealname8168
      @johnnotrealname8168 4 года назад

      @@jacovichstabs841 No it does not.

    • @Kitiwake
      @Kitiwake 4 года назад +3

      I can now spot a bigot at 500 yards by the use if their calling card....RCC.

  • @ryanmueller1617
    @ryanmueller1617 5 лет назад +243

    Climate change “skeptics” when consensus is mentioned be like:
    “But Galileo tho”

    • @purugigi
      @purugigi 5 лет назад +84

      longflopy dog , there is. People just don’t want to accept it,

    • @-dwaring285-3
      @-dwaring285-3 5 лет назад +59

      longflopy dog oh so 99% of climate scientists agreeing that climate change is real isn’t consensus?

    • @joedoe3688
      @joedoe3688 5 лет назад +21

      @@-dwaring285-3 99,97% of presented percentages on the internet are made up.

    • @bengreen171
      @bengreen171 5 лет назад +51

      @longflopy dog
      are you saying that climate scientists do not overwhelmingly agree that anthropic global warming is a thing? Because it would seem like you would need to provide some sort of evidence for that claim.

    • @NotGoodAtNamingThings
      @NotGoodAtNamingThings 5 лет назад +42

      @longflopy dog - "Do your own research" doesn't mean "listen to RUclips skeptics with no actual credentials."

  • @videocam23
    @videocam23 5 лет назад +6

    :))!!! im rly glad u still upload. every video is a joy. thanks alex !!!! see you in the next one !!

  • @andrewscott1268
    @andrewscott1268 5 лет назад +6

    This was an absolutely outstanding video! Easily your best. Well done! Fascinating.

    • @danieleyre8913
      @danieleyre8913 Год назад

      It is absolutely appalling. This Alex O'Conner either has either:
      1) not done more than superficial research into the Galileo affair
      2) grossly misunderstood the sources he read
      3) deliberately sought a conclusion that suits him, and cherry picked and shoehorned "factoids" that lead to this conclusion.

  • @andystokes8702
    @andystokes8702 4 года назад +36

    And here we are, sadly, several hundred years later and there are still people advocating that any scientific discovery should be dismissed if it contradicts their own literal interpretation of the Bible.

    • @mikelarrivee5115
      @mikelarrivee5115 3 года назад

      I would agree, but swap out the word literal for materialistic and you've got it. I think interpreting the bible literally is important but a literal interpretation doesn't make sense if you are a materialist, just like most things won't and can't and will continue to become less and less sensible the longer you are a materialist for.

    • @Laotzu.Goldbug
      @Laotzu.Goldbug 2 года назад +3

      And here we are, sadly, several hundred years later and there are still people advocating the any scientific discovery should be dismissed if it contradicts their own interpretation of Liberalism.

    • @SireJaxs
      @SireJaxs 5 месяцев назад

      no one says that besides fundementalists protestants, please stop collectivizing all christians.

    • @efhi
      @efhi 2 месяца назад

      @@Laotzu.Goldbug elaborate

  • @laurajarrell6187
    @laurajarrell6187 5 лет назад +16

    Cosmic Skeptic, Alex. My how far you've come since I watched you choosing your channel name, taking us to work with you at the tea shop and the big 'alterboy' did by Swish! I'm still poor as dirt or I'd be not just one of your biggest fan, but supporter, too. Take care of yourself, you are destined to be even greater! We, our species needs you! Lol, I just, four days later, realized I'd put Comic instead of Cosmic! Oops! Blonde/senior moment, I guess! 👏😘💖☮️🎃

  • @darksoul479
    @darksoul479 5 лет назад +2

    You know I was just thinking about this subject yesterday.
    Thanks for making this video.

  • @theodoe946
    @theodoe946 5 лет назад +18

    The entire situation is like an operatic drama...

  • @willievanstraaten1960
    @willievanstraaten1960 5 лет назад +2

    Informative, packed with facts. Saved to watch again. To much info to remember all the facts. Perfect.

  • @noahsark9077
    @noahsark9077 4 года назад +23

    Minor Error
    3:51 - The Church never had an "official" interpretation of Scripture on that. That was just the assumed belief of many Church authorities. The Church never officially taught such idea though. This trial with Galileo helped form the official Church teachings on what it meant to interpret Scripture. The Church bows in humility and admits that Sacred Scripture may be misused to get scientific ideas, when in reality it mentions very few and mostly is for theological and salvific ideas. The only real scientific idea is the teaching of "ex nihilo" or creation from nothing. This is backed up by the Big Bang Theory, which is from a Catholic priest by the way. However, this is still largely a philosophical and theological truth then a scientific one.

  • @MelancholyCrypto
    @MelancholyCrypto 4 года назад +1

    This channel has grown exponentially since I found it one year ago. Holy crap, give a round of applause for CosmicSkeptic!

  • @lisi7153
    @lisi7153 5 лет назад +20

    Hey, you, I also started studying theology (but as a Christian) and we had a discussion of atheist could also study theology! It was war! I brought up you, as an example of yes, you can study it, and another student had murder in his eyes! Fun!

    • @notyourbruh
      @notyourbruh 4 года назад +3

      Oof

    • @SearchIndex
      @SearchIndex 3 года назад +2

      I was raised as a strict devout Catholic but questioned everything and by the age of 30 was a hard boiled atheist …chemistry 101

  • @saud8329
    @saud8329 4 года назад

    My entire thinking about the incident with Church and Galileo has been changed. Thanks cosmic skeptic

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад

      Don't be so easily fooled. The Church was never against science and even build more institutions dedicated to it that Cosmic Skeptic would have you believe.

  • @markangellotti893
    @markangellotti893 5 лет назад +34

    It's amazing how scripture can be so creatively reinterpreted.

    • @martiddy
      @martiddy 5 лет назад +2

      That's why abrahamic religions are so famous

    • @Andre_XX
      @Andre_XX 5 лет назад +11

      How convenient for some that ancient religious texts are so imprecise as to be open to interpretation.

    • @paragonofvirtue270
      @paragonofvirtue270 5 лет назад

      Martiddy - Sama : you stupid ignorant bitch .

    • @j.kilgore8664
      @j.kilgore8664 4 года назад

      40k prot. religions using the Catholic Bible, each with their own interpretation, each claiming they own the truth and everyone else is wrong. That's physically impossible and mathematically insane! The last person to talk to if you need a Bible scholar is an atheist. The bias is so strong you can choke on the stink of it.

    • @seekerandthinker
      @seekerandthinker 2 года назад

      And yet they say Bible is the truth, an objective truth that can be misinterpreted every few centuries

  • @anthonypc1
    @anthonypc1 5 лет назад +2

    Thank you for providing your sources!

  • @JamesLewis
    @JamesLewis 5 лет назад +103

    It does need to be pointed out that throughout all this, it's simply a given that the Church had authority to make these demands and enact punishments. This is what happens when you make your church and your government one and the same thing... and we can see that it is still the case now in Islamic theocracies.

    • @nathanielreid4967
      @nathanielreid4967 4 года назад +11

      You are so correct, this truth can't be expressed enough. This is one of the most evils to inflict the world church/religious and State unions. Where ever there is religious and state powers marriages, there is much oppressive evil. This is the main idea that has made USA so singularly unique, the separation of church and state.

    • @JamesLewis
      @JamesLewis 4 года назад +16

      @@nathanielreid4967 There are those in the US who are working very hard to change it's nature from the only country in the world ever to be founded on the basis of separation of religion and government, into a full blown theocracy. these people are a danger to the very existence of the US, certainly it's existence as a world power. IMO, of course.

    • @nathanielreid4967
      @nathanielreid4967 4 года назад +6

      @@JamesLewis The Greeks fell, after them the Great Roman empire fell and we are not willing to learn from them. The greatest lie is not we tell others but what we tell ourselves.

    • @davidsirmons
      @davidsirmons 4 года назад +9

      Yes! Exactly! Religious-based governing systems are the LAST thing the US needs. See Great Britain and Czarist Russia and Islam for details.

    • @El_Zorro-Amigo_de_todos
      @El_Zorro-Amigo_de_todos 4 года назад +5

      Perhaps consider that any strong central government run by a small group of people is dangerous- whether it is religious or secular. Look at the communist regimes that were clearly not religious at all. The death tolls from Stalin and Mao make Hitler look like an amateur.

  • @hardrada2620
    @hardrada2620 5 лет назад +2

    Well done. I never heard the detail about Card. Bellarmine before. Your conclusion is spot-on.

  • @tttppp3105
    @tttppp3105 5 лет назад +8

    Thanks for a new perspective, and for some "food for thoughts"! Good luck with your degree!

  • @fridgemagnet9831
    @fridgemagnet9831 5 лет назад +2

    Excellent video, love the format, easy to digest.

  • @zanbarlee6190
    @zanbarlee6190 4 года назад +17

    I still remember the time that i had to seriously argue against a person thay claimed the church did not attempt to silence Galileo.

    • @josiprakonca2185
      @josiprakonca2185 4 года назад

      And how it went?

    • @zanbarlee6190
      @zanbarlee6190 4 года назад +2

      @@josiprakonca2185 how it normally goes. I feel like i proved my point and that most people that heard the argument would say the same. But the person i argued against didnt really change their point of view and will probably try to argue the same thing later on to someone else.

    • @asdfghjk8876
      @asdfghjk8876 3 года назад +4

      Sure they tried to silence him, but if you knew the actual context, you’d say it was warranted. The vast majority of the science community would’ve silenced him because his arguments were either weak or wrong and didn’t do anything to convince neither the church not the scientists of heliocentrism. If you want to believe it or not, with the information they had at the time, geocentrism looked pretty plausible. Galileo didn’t prove that heliocentrism was right, so he had no business treating it as a fact. The pope allowed Galileo to write his dialogue, to present both worldviews but without favoring the one everyone deemed to be wrong. And still he did managed to let his bias permeate the book, whilst insulting the pope. There you have it, that’s why the church "silenced him".

    • @TheHikariLP
      @TheHikariLP 3 года назад

      @@asdfghjk8876 I see you don't have a scientific profession and an attitude to be against free speech and to defend people of the past for their transgressions. The scientific community as a whole to this day hasn't silenced anyone. Sure, publishers refuse publications but you can still write your crackpot theories on your own website or book. There were lots of geocentrist scientists during that time but strangely they weren't the ones who silenced him. The most they ever did was write letters to the contrary.
      Listen buddy, the catholic church, that is the Vatican, publically apologised for this because they know they f*cked up, but for some reason people like you come along nowadays to justify the church and aren't satisfied with the fact that the church isn't perfect and justified on every level, not realising you make the situation worse for the church which just wants to get over it. You are lietrally making the situation worse for the church by defending it on it's past mistakes. Also that letter was a forgery, so no, the pope never put any limitations on him unless you think it's okay to sentence someone before they know their "rights"(more like threats here).
      Father to Mother: Suzy can't go outside else she will get spanked.
      Mother does not repeat it to her daughter Suzy.
      Suzy goes outside -> gets spanked.
      Epitome of justice.
      And yes, it is true silencing if you judge someone so they can't leave their house or write letters or books. I don't think you would feel like you can voice your opinion if someone in power orders you to never use the internet again or go out onto the streets. There is no need for the quotation marks.
      Face it, if you are in favor of free speech there is no way to justify this unjust sentencing. But at least the way you argue your point you at least prove that the church is against open inquirery and holds the idea that mere "insults against the pope" warant lifelong punishments. I am glad it lost almost all of its power.
      Lastly the actual sentencing was not because it was against scientific consensus at the time or insulted the pope but because the church saw it as going against holy scripture. It's unambiguously stated in the trial and sentencing.

    • @asdfghjk8876
      @asdfghjk8876 3 года назад +3

      @@TheHikariLP also, they didn’t just reject the model because it went against scripture. According to the sub, Tim O'Neill is a reliable source for this, so just check out his answers on quora around this subject for God’s sake, since I know reading a book would take too long. www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-misunderstood-historical-event/answer/Tim-ONeill-1?ch=99&share=7c162d3c&srid=uWLkO (he even cites his sources wow)
      The church was the patron of science, most scientists or "natural philosophers" at the time were churchmen. They didn’t shy away from changing their interpretation of scripture if they were wrong, so yes it was very much about the scientific consensus as well, it did play a role. The true violation was the reinterpretation of scripture by a non-expert tho, I give you that. But still, the basis of his trial was the violation of the agreement he made in 1616, not science

  • @MrBILLSTANLEY
    @MrBILLSTANLEY 4 года назад +2

    A detailed and fascinating video. You've described the essence of the scientific method. I've subscribed to your podcasts and will donate.

  • @JCW7100
    @JCW7100 5 лет назад +6

    Love your channel Alex! Keep up the great content! :)

  • @michaelbath100
    @michaelbath100 4 года назад +1

    Well done Alex. Marvellous how I can be so informed in twenty minutes..

  • @lilsaam
    @lilsaam 5 лет назад +8

    Love the topic! Super interesting!

  • @bjarnes.4423
    @bjarnes.4423 5 лет назад

    This is one of your best videos this year, in my opinion

  • @ShadowZZZ
    @ShadowZZZ 5 лет назад +7

    The Catholic Church found the 17th-century astronomer Galileo guilty of heresy for insisting the earth revolved around the sun. It did not rehabilitate him until 1992. As Hitchens said: Better late than never.

  • @charleshines2094
    @charleshines2094 5 лет назад +2

    I loved this. More history would always be welcome.
    Edit: Also, congratulations on 300K subscribers. I just noticed that.

  • @TechnoMinarchist
    @TechnoMinarchist 4 года назад +3

    I've been trying to tell people this online for years and everytime I do people always call me a propagandist.

  • @ZemiEmperor
    @ZemiEmperor 5 лет назад +25

    Hi Alex,
    Thank you your refreshing look at the Galileo affair. I liked the content you put in the video which is much more accurate than other versions one might find on the Internet. There are, however, some things that lacked:
    1. It would be interesting to mention why the Church did not have problems with Copernicus until 1616 (as opposed to just the Council of Trent).
    2. One important thing you didn’t mention is Bellarmino’s reply to Foscarini 1615 in which he said that that: “I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun is at the center of the world and the earth in the third heaven, and that the sun does not circle the earth but the earth circles the sun, then one would have to proceed with great care in explaining the Scriptures that appear contrary; and say rather that we do not understand them than that what is demonstrated is false.”
    3. It was not mentioned that the reason why Galileo didn’t achieve this demonstration was because there was no such demonstration back then available, and that Galileo’s observations did not demonstrate this at all. They were however “proofs” that what was wrong was the Aristotelian system.
    4. The Church recognized this and some, especially, Jesuits began to abandon Aristotelian cosmology in 1610s, while at the same time publically celebrating Galileo in Rome in 1610. But precisely because of this lack of evidence mentioned above, they were not converted to Copernicanism.
    5. You didn’t mention Galileo’ ”bad science”, i.e., his reason he used to put forward in favour of Copernicanism. Especially his argument from the tides. This was rightfully rejected. Yet Galileo remained quite stubborn about this, but stubbornness is not a replacement for a good argument.
    6. Here is the most crucial thing, as I see it: not once have you mentioned the geoheliocentric model od Tycho de Brahe. The connection and problem with Galileo is that he didn’t mention it either! His 1632 work is titled, “Dialogue Concerning Two Chief World Systems”. Which two? Aristotelianism and Copernicanism. So where is Brahe’s system? Nowhere. Because Galileo was not arguing against as he knew probably very well there was no observational difference back them between Brahe’s and Copernican system. He wanted to make his game easy and ignored Brahe to whose systems Church members were gradually turning to. So wasn’t Copernicanism much simpler and elegant than Brahe’s model? Not really. At a minimum Brahe didn’t need to explain the movement of the Earth (stationary in his system) which was against the common sense and where common sense was still, until Newton, was not trumped by good arguments. Plus, Copernicanism was even a bit more complex in its equants, eccentricities, and epicycles. So why not embrace Brahe’s system rather than the problematic Copernicanism? Galileo’s silence doesn’t give us the answer, but in a different sense, it does.
    7. I of course agree that the Church did much wrong in preventing Galileo from speaking freely, but I think you’re too unfair here and try to bring the modern notion of science with its (still not very clear) boundaries onto the 17th century.
    I love your channel and thanks for all your effort!

    • @trueblueclue
      @trueblueclue 3 года назад +6

      Also he pretty much insulted everybody in his dialogues by portraying his opponents as inept morons. He wasn't the most savvy guy in a time where his then theories could've created a controversy in a very sensitive time of the post Tridentine church. See then cardinal Ratzinger's thoughts on the matter.
      TL,DR Galileo was way too blunt in his approach and pissed a lot of people off.

  • @mirzadzomba9852
    @mirzadzomba9852 4 года назад +5

    Very good stuff. Thank you for this video.
    Let me add a small detail. There was a personal angle to Galileo's trial (understandably) not mentioned here. In the Dialogue, the geocentric position is argued by a character named Simplicio. On the face of it, the name is a reference to a sixth century Aristotelian: Simplicius of Cilicia. And the character looks like being based on two contemporaries of Galileo: Lodovico delle Colombe and Cesare Cremonini. However, the character's name is really poorly chosen by Galileo. Galileo's enemies argued to the Pope (Urban VIII) that Simplicio is actually based on him (Urban), and that the name in fact suggests that the character is simple-minded ('semplice'). For Urban, that felt like a personal betrayal because he showed considerable favour to Galileo before. Let us not forget that the trial was not the only option for the Catholic Church at that point. And a heavy-handed treatment of a celebrity scientist came with very significant risks. And, as it happens, the trial indeed turned out to be a disaster inflicting massive reputational damage.

  • @exponent8562
    @exponent8562 4 года назад +1

    Great vid. Loved your explaining of how science is more of a method than a thing.

  • @nathanbossoh
    @nathanbossoh 5 лет назад +21

    For the most part this is a very welcome video Alex! However, (and you may never see this) there are a few crucial things that you have not mentioned, or that are not correct.
    1) The term 'scientist' was not invented until 1833. 'Natural philosopher' was the word used and it meant something different to scientist.
    2) One of the main reasons Pope Urban was so angry (and this is key) was that Simplicio represented the Pope's views. This didn't help Galileo's case on a personal level, not to mention Galileo was known to be a temper boiling person and this was also the period of the 30 years war was omitted and that played another crucial role in this unique decision.
    3) The scientific standard of that time was sought through books not observation and experimentation. This was an important part of the debate. I.e. how should science be done?
    4) It wasn't just due to scripture that heliocentrism was denied, it was scripture plus for them common sense at the time plus even some scientific arguments.
    5) It was not the church against science, as some of the church leaders themselves actually agreed with Galileo, although that aspect is largely hidden usually.
    6) It is a bit misleading to define science in its (more) modern context, and then to impose that on the Galileo case. Science has not always meant what it does today and your case becomes a bit anachronistic when we look back at his book and characterize it as the "winning book" (even if it was).
    So to call it a 'science vs the church' episode is still quite misleading. It would be better to call it a debate within the church about how science should be done.

    • @bozoc2572
      @bozoc2572 5 лет назад +3

      Yes! Very important nuances there.
      People are born today into the world where they get the idea of how scientific method ought to function, i.e. they way it is functioning right now. Based on that idea, they make all sorts of judgements and fail to understand the process that led up to this moment. This often leads to scientism.

    • @notamoron2246
      @notamoron2246 4 года назад

      Doesn't point 4 contradict point 1?
      By the way, isn't "science" for all intents and purposes simply the study of nature anyway?

    • @notamoron2246
      @notamoron2246 4 года назад +3

      What may I ask gives the church the right to tell anyone how science "should be done"? Then or now?

    • @notamoron2246
      @notamoron2246 4 года назад

      @the Lost Q
      He sounds like a flat erffer.

    • @nathanbossoh
      @nathanbossoh 4 года назад

      @@notamoron2246 Because science is not an abstract concept, it is a social activity carried out by people. Today the scientific community in the West is largely practiced in a secular tone because more people in science are non-religious compared to then which is totally understandable. During that time the Church was the major player so, the question to you would be who would have practiced science in the West (on a major scale) if not for people within the Church?

  • @peggysmith3985
    @peggysmith3985 5 лет назад +2

    Thank you for explaining the true story so well hope you do more

  • @calemh5457
    @calemh5457 3 года назад +3

    Your channel is spreading to schools now, i have to watch this for History

  • @justinpeterburford
    @justinpeterburford 2 года назад

    As a devout Christian I very much appreciate your excellent work and demeanor on this video.

  • @shawnmarrier6340
    @shawnmarrier6340 5 лет назад +112

    His trial and sentencing is a prime example of any and everyone who places dogma at the top of the knowledge totem pole. We are a species that does not know it all and must use science as a tool to learn.

    • @thenowchurch6419
      @thenowchurch6419 5 лет назад +2

      But I thought we knew it all !
      Just kidding !

    • @russellewelchiii
      @russellewelchiii 4 года назад +1

      Are you aware that things placed at the top of the totem pole are the most insignificant and that there significance grows as you work your way down. This is because in their philosophy those at the bottom hold all the others up. As opposed to the white man’s philosophy of being at the top is more important because what we value is power not Service.

    • @russellewelchiii
      @russellewelchiii 4 года назад +1

      So to clarify saying something is at the top of the totem pole is to say that it lacks significance

    • @orglancs
      @orglancs 4 года назад +2

      Shawn Marrier: but science has its dogmas that it will not allow to be investigated, too. It treats 'heretics' worse than Gallileo was treated by the RC church. Those who dissent from modern scientific mechanism are rejected and written out of the history books.

    • @animalsarebeautifulpeople3094
      @animalsarebeautifulpeople3094 4 года назад +6

      @@orglancs no man made system is perfect and needs to be watched of course. The problem is also those who ignore the mountain of evidence such as flatearthers or anti-plant based carnists

  • @mysticmouse7261
    @mysticmouse7261 3 месяца назад

    So helpful and beautifully unbiased

  • @d.o.m.494
    @d.o.m.494 5 лет назад +9

    GG was never tortured but his imagination of torture went into overdrive!

    • @BlacksmithTWD
      @BlacksmithTWD 3 года назад +1

      One must have a vivid imagination to come up with alternate models of the solar system already, can't rule out the possibility that he was actually threatened with torture that put it into overdrive.

  • @naughtyjasy
    @naughtyjasy 4 года назад +1

    Thanks for the video, going through the historical documents.

  • @TheTruthTeller99
    @TheTruthTeller99 5 лет назад +70

    I'm not gay but you're so handsome, articulate and witty

    • @gsmarkham
      @gsmarkham 5 лет назад +38

      I am gay... Ditto on the rest.

    • @pamelarojas7754
      @pamelarojas7754 5 лет назад +16

      He is so attractive

    • @russ4moose
      @russ4moose 5 лет назад +46

      "I'm not gay, but" is the single gayest way to start a sentence.

    • @anthonynorman7545
      @anthonynorman7545 5 лет назад +15

      @@russ4moose what about "this sentence and I are gay, and"

    • @stevem7945
      @stevem7945 5 лет назад +4

      @@russ4moose russ4more is the gayest name ever.

  • @is34legend826
    @is34legend826 2 года назад

    Your videos are very enlightening. You have a lot of intellect and wisdom. Thanks for your insight.

  • @jackdavids2723
    @jackdavids2723 5 лет назад +28

    I’m sorry but I have to do this
    Galileo Galileo Galileo Figaro magnifico
    Easy come easy go will you let me go
    Bismillah!!! No!!! we will not let you go
    Mamma mia mamma mia mamma mia let me go

    • @thenowchurch6419
      @thenowchurch6419 5 лет назад +2

      Just could not help it huh ?
      Bohemian Rhapsody strikes again.

    • @notamoron2246
      @notamoron2246 4 года назад +1

      Beelzabub has a devil put aside for you.

    • @notamoron2246
      @notamoron2246 4 года назад +3

      No need to apologise.

    • @garethbaus5471
      @garethbaus5471 4 года назад +2

      I still don't understand why so many people like that song, I like most songs by queen but that song just annoys me.

    • @jackdavids2723
      @jackdavids2723 4 года назад +1

      Gareth Baus you’re not alone. I for one don’t like it but it sure is catchy

  • @DemonFox369
    @DemonFox369 5 лет назад +2

    For anyone who enjoys this channel, I HIGHLY recommend a fantasy novel called “Throne of Magical Arcana” which is about science vs religion

  • @maxnullifidian
    @maxnullifidian 4 года назад +22

    "Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn."
    Augustine of Hippo

    • @chrisvalenzuela7911
      @chrisvalenzuela7911 3 года назад

      "Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. Now it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics, and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn... If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe our books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren, ... to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call on Holy Scripture, .. although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. "

  • @andeez4663
    @andeez4663 5 лет назад +2

    Great vid young man. I would love to hear your take on Giordano Bruno, surely the most interesting personality from all the history of philosophy/theology

  • @bengreen171
    @bengreen171 5 лет назад +75

    surprise, surprise, the church changes some text to fit their own narrative....

    • @santopino2546
      @santopino2546 4 года назад +4

      Not true, the texts change themself to fit the Churches truths.

    • @ec6211
      @ec6211 4 года назад +5

      So does every religious institution in the world. That's how they stay in the business without becoming redundant.

    • @johnnotrealname8168
      @johnnotrealname8168 4 года назад +2

      They did not change the text they changed the interpretation.

    • @bengreen171
      @bengreen171 4 года назад +2

      @@johnnotrealname8168
      they've done both. It is well known that whole chunks of the gospels are later additions, and there are lots of little changes as well - not all from simple scribal errors, but from monks who felt that they were making the "message" clearer - ie more in line with their own presuppositions.

    • @johnnotrealname8168
      @johnnotrealname8168 4 года назад

      @@bengreen171 I know some parts of Mark were not written by whoever Mark is supposed to be but that is hardly the same as saying they purposely mistranslated. This would mean the Latin Vulgate today is different from the Complutensian Polyglot Bible which are both different from Saint Jerome's Latin Translation. I really doubt that.

  • @persiancarpet5234
    @persiancarpet5234 5 лет назад +2

    Congrats to 300k!

  • @utah133
    @utah133 5 лет назад +21

    It was a time when "The Church" held sway. I'm happy that I was born in my time and place where I can free-think, express my opinions, be an atheist and enjoyably not be burned at the stake. Actually, house arrest wouldn't be too bad, as long as they didn't take his telescope away!

    • @FahadAyaz
      @FahadAyaz 4 года назад +1

      "where I can free-think" 😬 Freedom, even in today's age, is an illusion, my friend! I refer you to Alex's previous video on free will 🙃
      Seriously though, we are influenced and manipulated constantly. We are the product of our experiences and opinions repeated often enough soon start to sway and take hold in our minds.

    • @crhkrebs
      @crhkrebs 4 года назад +1

      Fahad Ayaz perhaps, but I for one, agree with rational guy. Just this sort of conversation would draw the attention of the Inquisition.

    • @PhilJonesIII
      @PhilJonesIII 4 года назад +1

      But you do not live in a time of 'free think' as you will quickly learn if you try to express some of those thoughts. The whole debate seems more about saving face, rather than the establishment of truth. At the time, the authority of the Catholic Church had taken a severe blow and was keen to maintain that authority at any cost.
      The situation is the same in political circles. In the 'Gulag Archipelago,' we see many examples of people being jailed, tortured or shot for expressing views that might be interpreted as against the state. The aim of the exercise was to suppress any and all discussion about the rightness of the current political regime.
      This attitude is alive and well today, in Western Society. You may not get shot for expressing contrary view but, those views can end your career (some shining careers) forever.

    • @Laotzu.Goldbug
      @Laotzu.Goldbug 2 года назад

      The church still hold sway, in fact it holds more sway than it ever did before, it's just a different Church. Try mentioning any of the inconvenience scientific facts about race, IQ, sex, and everything else, and the modern Inquisition will descend on you and destroy your life far more quickly than the Catholic church ever could have

  • @jorolo70
    @jorolo70 4 года назад

    As always, Alex, you are the voice of reason, thanks a lot

  • @brendastark9544
    @brendastark9544 5 лет назад +9

    Religion has held back human beings from developing, just like some religions are doing today. Like stopping any adverse questions or pointing out flaws in it.

    • @Lerian_V
      @Lerian_V 5 лет назад +1

      But without religion, human beings will still be undeveloped. Galileo's religion didn't hold him back; he was deeply religious. He simply was ahead of his time. The church overreacted due to the schism (reformation) it suffered. Anyway, the church came around as soon as the evidence became compelling. The church is self-correcting in nature.

    • @stefandavenport1588
      @stefandavenport1588 4 года назад

      @Traditional Catholic The *bible* FALSELY teaches Geocentricity
      www.gatewayanabaptistchurch.com/2014/01/29/all-281-geocentric-references-of-the-holy-bible/
      Read Joshua 10:12-13 carefully ; Joshua commanded BOTH the Sun _AND_ the Moon to stand still, NOT the Earth, which proves that the bible writers believed that the Sun ITSELF traveled around the Earth, and that it could actually be stopped, simply by a man's prayer to Yahweh/Jesus !
      The Church verdict near the end of the video, based Galileo's conviction on " violations of the teachings of the Holy Scriptures "
      They used the scriptures cited in the link above ; the Church thinking was, that the bible was "inspired".

  • @valt3rnative
    @valt3rnative 5 лет назад

    Missed your videos, dude. Glad to see one again.

  • @paulbolton4929
    @paulbolton4929 4 года назад +9

    If the pope is god's representative on earth and was wrong, then it reasons that he didn't get his information from god. This stands to be true today as well.

    • @matthewking3318
      @matthewking3318 4 года назад

      Or, maybe god's just not very smart. As Frank Zappa postulated "if man was made in god's image, if man is dumb, then god is dumb, and maybe a little ugly on the side. "

    • @Nuclear241
      @Nuclear241 4 года назад

      That's why God is unimaginably unlike man, we are just in the form He creates to be best.

  • @naivnynadhlad3248
    @naivnynadhlad3248 4 года назад +1

    I loved the video!! Very well research. You have such a great way with words and facts ❤️

  • @Nancy20012
    @Nancy20012 5 лет назад +24

    And this story demonstrates the nonsensical nature of the Christians' claims that science thrived and progressed thanks to Christianity when the truth is that science managed to progress despite Christianity putting all these obstacles to stop the progression. Thank you for the information Alex great work as always.

    • @anthonynorman7545
      @anthonynorman7545 5 лет назад +2

      @rehecked it's pretty hard to do science if one gives away all their worldly possessions and prepares for the return of the Messiah.

    • @John.0z
      @John.0z 5 лет назад +1

      @rehecked Are you suggesting that other religions are immeasurably better the the Catholics? That would require some sort of evidence.
      Given it's origins, I would not expect the Church of England to be different at inception. It does seem to have become more lenient over the centuries.
      Just today (my time) the Pope has finally changed the rules regarding how the clergy should actually admit when crimes are reported within the church. That does not sound like an organisation that is seeking truth, or even behaving within the host country's laws.
      I am not religious, so maybe someone else can say if the Orthodox Church is any more open to scientific inquiry?

    • @John.0z
      @John.0z 5 лет назад

      @rehecked LOL. Something tells me that the ~500Million Catholics have a different viewpoint.
      Just to be clear, I have no skin in this silly game.

    • @thenowchurch6419
      @thenowchurch6419 5 лет назад

      It is really not so black and white.
      At certain points , in various ways Christian institutions and leaders did obstruct the development of science.
      On the other hand certain viewpoints of Christianity, like an intelligent Creator, did support and encourage many scientists, who then discovered the Uniformity of Nature.
      Many major scientific breakthroughs were done by Christians, such as the
      Big Bang by a Jesuit trained Belgian priest, George Lemaitre.

    • @jaymiddleton1782
      @jaymiddleton1782 5 лет назад

      thenowchurch Galileo was also a Christian, and he was obstructed by the institution of religion.
      Christianity as an institution, and religion in general, has objectively obstructed scientific progress.

  • @mikevallender
    @mikevallender 4 года назад

    This was great. I recently used the Galileo example of religion suppressing science and was happy to discover my claims aligned with yours.

  • @jonathanstensberg
    @jonathanstensberg 4 года назад +5

    1. There were really solid scientific reasons to maintain geocentrism over heliocentrism. In many ways, the former theory was a better explanation of the astronomical data available at the time, and the scientific controversy wasn't really resolved until Newton's exposition of gravity, and most of the hallmark evidences of heliocentrism post-date Gallileo by over a century.
    2. Prior to the development of scientific academies in the mid-1600s, the Church was the mediator of scientific inquiry. Where we are today quite used to rather speculative scientific theorizing, the Church maintained a very high standard of evidence for the promulgation of scientific truth claims. This was to avoid exactly the problem of geocentrism: a theory being taught as true later being discovered false. The Church prefers that false things not be taught in the first place.
    3. Gallileo's statement, 'both the scriptures must be true and the laws of nature must be true; the two cannot contradict,' was nothing new. This was firmly held position of the Church for at least a millenium. A contradiction between the two must result from either bad scriptural interpretation or bad natural science. Where Gallileo concluded that the scientist cannot deny what he sees, the Church concluded (quite correctly) that the scientist could be mis-seeing things.
    4. Because of (1)-(3), the Church reasonably interpreted Gallileo to be promulgating bad science--not on dogmatic grounds but on scientific grounds. Unfortuantely, because the Church had interpretted the scriptures implicitly assuming geocentrism, Gallileo also ran afoul of the quasi-dogmatic (and circular!) belief in geocentrism. Since Gallileo was not then justified on scientific grounds, he was teaching a heresy against the thereto scientifically justified belief in a geocentrism reading of the scriptures.
    The affair has ultimately had a number of positive effects:
    5. The appreciation that our scientific understanding may not be as solid as it now appears
    6. The realization that reasonable speculation can greatly advance our understanding, even if many speculations ultimately prove false
    7. The recognition that our science-based assumptions should be held tentatively, with the expectation that the science may change in the future
    The affair has also had som negative effects:
    8. The development of the myth that science and religion are incompatible, rather than existing in mutually-affirming tension
    9. The teaching of the founding myth of modern science as a battle between reason and dogma, rather than a centuries-long theoretical and experimental debate in pursuit of truth

  • @jordanrish9053
    @jordanrish9053 5 лет назад +2

    Love your videos bro!

  • @donsample1002
    @donsample1002 5 лет назад +13

    "Context!"
    Is this turning into a Scholagladiatoria video?

    • @manusiabumi7673
      @manusiabumi7673 5 лет назад +1

      Scholagladiatoria x Cosmic Sceptic possible crossover/collab?
      YES PLEASE!

    • @Ixnatifual
      @Ixnatifual 5 лет назад +1

      Who would win in a three-way free-for-all with a week to prepare? Galileo, the Pope or a German landsknecht?

    • @donsample1002
      @donsample1002 5 лет назад +1

      manusiabumi -- What's the best sword for chopping through specious rhetoric?

    • @xwarrior760
      @xwarrior760 5 лет назад +5

      @@donsample1002 The pen of course

  • @madimad71
    @madimad71 4 года назад

    We need more of these videos, WE DEMAND MORE !

  • @maxsimes
    @maxsimes 5 лет назад +5

    Unfair things happened in the middle ages. Who wouldve thought.
    A very interesting story though!

    • @quantumaxe6468
      @quantumaxe6468 5 лет назад

      Doesn't happen now, like at all.

    • @maxsimes
      @maxsimes 5 лет назад

      @@quantumaxe6468 to a much lesser extent though

    • @quantumaxe6468
      @quantumaxe6468 5 лет назад

      @@maxsimes yeah, cause we pay attention to it all or care about it.

    • @maxsimes
      @maxsimes 5 лет назад

      @@quantumaxe6468 we do actually. Someone like galileo would have no problem talking freely today. I dont understand what point you are trying to make.

    • @quantumaxe6468
      @quantumaxe6468 5 лет назад

      @@maxsimes different times, different heresies.

  • @bluEish04
    @bluEish04 5 лет назад +1

    I’ve always wondered what you think about Jordan Peterson and his lectures on the psychological perspective of religion particularly Judeo-Christianity. Anyways, great work. This is one of your more interesting videos.

  • @scottalbers2518
    @scottalbers2518 4 года назад +8

    I thought your presentation was great. However I would like to comment upon its tight focus and narrow conclusion.
    It has to be taken as a given, from the viewpoint of today, that in 1632 the Church should not have cramped human freedom of thought.
    However from the viewpoint of 1632 itself, a number of very important differences between1632 and today ought to be recognized and mentioned. I think that atva minimum these issues are:
    1. The close immediate association between human life and the afterlife as lived in 1632, full of demons, ghouls, angels, etc, in which everyone during this period lived;
    2. The threat of Islam from Constantinople;
    3. The utter devastation of the 30 Years War, 1618 to 1648;
    4. The onset of horrific psychologic terrors involving witchcraft which were rampant during this period;
    5. The syphilis epidemic which seemed to be a curse of God upon sinners and their progeny,
    6. Galileo's own acceptance of Biblical authority,
    7. The Spanish conquest of the Globe, the English and French challenge to this, and the extraordinary change in human life as wrought by these conflicts and foreign adventures.
    The political role played by the Church in maintaining civil peace and authority was significant during this period. In certain ways there was no acceptable alternative, but the Protestants would naturally debate this.
    The matter of Galileo was one small part of a much more complex situation.
    The political shadings of "scientific truth" are as imposing today as in 1632. I dont believe that we have changed reallybatvall. We just worship different Gods and seek to dodge different calamities.
    What would happen to your future s scientific career if with all good science you established that men are better than women? Or that euthenasia and eugenics weres good? Etc. A modern inquisition, with its modern lies and tricks, would descend upon you.
    I think your discussion would be more fair, and more interesting, and more relevant to today, if these additional factors ... which so thoroughly bias the search for truth ... were discussed, even slightly.

    • @TheReactor8
      @TheReactor8 4 года назад

      Mostly True, but does not take away the slightest of the scientific method vs dogma.

    • @Laotzu.Goldbug
      @Laotzu.Goldbug 2 года назад

      @@TheReactor8 the problem is that modern science is as much dogma as it is "scientific method", in fact maybe even more.

  • @louiegardener936
    @louiegardener936 5 лет назад +1

    Really big fan of your work

  • @gregcampwriter
    @gregcampwriter 5 лет назад +10

    A Catholic apologist argued to me on Twitter this week that Galileo was justly punished for being arrogant.
    And people wonder why I insist that religion must never be allowed to have government power.

    • @rc7625
      @rc7625 4 года назад

      They all fucking repeat that apologist talking point like a bunch of NPCs. Truly annoying.

    • @j.k.6865
      @j.k.6865 3 года назад +1

      He's right though. Galileo was acting like a dick.

    • @gregcampwriter
      @gregcampwriter 3 года назад

      @@j.k.6865 Pretend you're correct. So? The Church shouldn't have the power to punish anyone for that.

    • @j.k.6865
      @j.k.6865 3 года назад +2

      @@gregcampwriter the Church was the State back then. They had the full authority and the duty to place order.

    • @gregcampwriter
      @gregcampwriter 3 года назад

      @@j.k.6865 Would you also like to explain that the sky's blue on a clear day, or have you exhausted your stock of statements that everyone in the discussion already know about?
      The Church shouldn't ever have had political power--I spell that out since you don't seem able to infer it.

  • @ScienceDruid
    @ScienceDruid 5 лет назад

    Simply and beautifully presented. Thank you.

  • @anthonypc1
    @anthonypc1 5 лет назад +4

    3:30 Poor guy :(
    His brilliant mind must have been suffering with so much cognitive dissonance

  • @lifeisoverated81
    @lifeisoverated81 5 лет назад +1

    For the "justifications" part. It almost sounds like he's describing creationism. Great video. Thank you

  • @kadlubom
    @kadlubom 5 лет назад +3

    Wasn't there also a thing with Galileo's 'Dialogue' that made the Pope feel offended and irritated with the author, because he saw himself in the character defending the geocentric system (and their arguments being weaker than the ones presented by heliocentric system defender)? I remember reading about it somewhere...

    • @pansepot1490
      @pansepot1490 5 лет назад

      Very probably. Galileo was a Tuscan and Tuscan people to this day are renowned for their sarcastic sense of humour.

    • @Mariomario-gt4oy
      @Mariomario-gt4oy 5 лет назад +2

      No that wasnt the case and was only brought up by catholics trying to jusrify what the church did and demonize Galileo when the entire church agreed what he said was heretical and contrary to "scripture" as they had sole authority and political power to do so and did to others as well as Galileo by imprisoning him

    • @DragonKing101
      @DragonKing101 5 лет назад +1

      @@Mariomario-gt4oy" No that wasnt the case and was only brought up by catholics trying to jusrify what the church did"
      It kinda was the case. It was one of the main reasonings, considering the Pope got so butthurt over it.
      "when the entire church agreed what he said was heretical and contrary to "scripture""
      The church didn't even care at first, and they were perfectly okay with him doing it - As long as he didn't try to put his words into scriptures that's. Which was one of the other main reason why they put him under house arrest.
      "did to others as well as Galileo by imprisoning him"
      House arrest wasn't even that bad, but I agree with what you're trying to get at. They completely overreacted to the situation.

    • @Mariomario-gt4oy
      @Mariomario-gt4oy 5 лет назад +1

      @@DragonKing101 uh no.
      1. No he wasn't. There is no evidence supporting this and was peddled by Catholics to defend it. The ENTIRE CHURCH agreed to it. To claim "well he got angry" is an extreme mischaracterization
      2. The church DID care. They cared if you tried to say something was factually true or tried to personally reinterpret the bible to fit reality. It was called heresy and numerous people were killed and imprisoned over it.
      3. Uh someone was ARRESTED AND PUT TO JAIL IN THEIR OWN HOME. and had their work banned ( as well as copernicus) if they believed it went against the bible
      Thanks for proving my point. They censored him and put him in jail over scientific inquiry.

    • @DragonKing101
      @DragonKing101 5 лет назад +1

      @@Mariomario-gt4oy" No he wasn't. There is no evidence supporting this and was peddled by Catholics to defend it. The ENTIRE CHURCH agreed to it."
      That's a load of garbage. Galileo's book, "The Dialogue Concerning the Two World Systems", there's a character named, "Simplicio" (Meaning Simple-Minded), and this character was quite clearly a parody of the Pope, as he was using quite a bit of the arguments that the Pope was making. Is it not clear that he was trying to take jabs at him and a few other of his opponents? Do you REALLY think the Pope would have taken all so kindly to that?
      "The church DID care. They cared if you tried to say something was factually true or tried to personally reinterpret the bible to fit reality."
      They DIDN'T care If he just stuck to the science. They of course did care with he tried to mix science with theology.
      "Uh someone was ARRESTED AND PUT TO JAIL IN THEIR OWN HOME. "
      Which ISN'T nearly as bad as being put into prison. He literally was given his nice villa in Florence, and freely allowed to work. It's still terrible that they did that of course, I'm not objecting to that, but it wasn't THAT bad.
      "as well as Copernicus"
      Which I of course agree with, they shouldn't have banned their works, especially with how they reacted in the Galileo affairs. But what I'm saying is this had little to do with: "Science vs The Church" And more so to do with their ideas having flaws with the models that, "Natural Philosophers" were going by, since they were applying Aristotle's Physics. They had a lot of clerks that agreed with them, and quite a few opponents as well, And in the case of Gallelio, getting all butthurt at him trying to apply his views to scriptures, and just not sticking to "Natural Philosophy" stays in Natural Philosophy.

  • @MichaelFenley
    @MichaelFenley 4 года назад

    Very high quality work. Thank you.

  • @13ciaran13000
    @13ciaran13000 5 лет назад +5

    Those slides look suspiciously contrapoints... 🤨

  • @TheJimtanker
    @TheJimtanker 5 лет назад

    Amazing video! Thank you for the time that you put into this project.

  • @ForkFace0612
    @ForkFace0612 5 лет назад +5

    Still waiting for your Hijab debate review huhu. I also want to hear your take on the other decent muslim you've debated there.

  • @antoniocjp5824
    @antoniocjp5824 5 лет назад +1

    Excellent video, thank you very much!

  • @star3catcherSEQUEL
    @star3catcherSEQUEL 4 года назад +3

    So basically the Church got butthurt that his arguments made more sense than theirs, tried to frame him, and then when he debunked their framing, they threw a shit fit and went, "NUH UH I'M THE BOSS I WIN YOU LOSE THE END!!!!"
    Such a noble and upstanding organization.

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад +1

      No the church was outraged at the fact that someone would undermine their teachings in favor of a model that wasn't 100% proven. You have to understand that "making sense" and "being true" are two different things.
      Does this excuse the church? No, of course not but it also makes Galileo out to be just as guilty of pushing his own views onto others. There's a reason why the church funded (and still does) institutions of learning, and that is because it seeks to find the true interpretation of the bibles teachings to this day.

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад +1

      @the Lost Q Not sure what you're trying to tell me with this. You trying to tell me that the church was the bad guy here? Yeah, duh. I said in the comment you replied to that Galileos actions don't excuse the church.

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад +1

      @the Lost Q Pushing something that was mathematically proven to be incorrect (at the time) as fact. The numbers for the copernican model simply didn't add up, which is why heliocentrism was viewed as a hypothesis and nothing more.
      Nowadays we know that the Earth orbits eliptically around the sun, but back then they thought it was circular.
      Fancy the fact that Copernicus himself, a church beaurocrat, was never sanctioned in any way for his heliocentric model.

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад +1

      @the Lost Q Human rights weren't as much of a thing back then but yeah. I mean if you're going to uphold people to modern standards then yeah, prepare to be discouraged.
      Especially since Galileo was someone who consistently shat on people who aided him behind their backs.

    • @javierititin
      @javierititin 4 года назад +1

      @the Lost Q I thought we were talking about the trial of Galileo only? But okay, whatever. And if you're going to talk about nazism at least adress the proper context that bigotry and antisemitism was utterly rampant, thus opening the doors for the nazis to connect with people.
      Anyway I've already expressed thr fact that I disapprove of the churchs decision even in light of context which I provided to make sure no one was seen as "objectively good". I'm done here.

  • @user-lo3vc4ot5g
    @user-lo3vc4ot5g 4 года назад

    Regarding the goatee - maybe in a couple years, but I love your optimism.

  • @wwtory
    @wwtory 5 лет назад +6

    “Produces” means “shows he had” the letter? I’m sorry, English is my second language...

    • @wwtory
      @wwtory 5 лет назад +7

      I believe in this context it is a synonym of “brings out”...

    • @tonydarcy1606
      @tonydarcy1606 5 лет назад +1

      Yes ! You have interpreted it correctly. In Galileo's case it means that he actually had the letter and he presented it to the court.

    • @wwtory
      @wwtory 5 лет назад

      Tony D'Arcy Thank you! :)

    • @BlacksmithTWD
      @BlacksmithTWD 3 года назад +2

      Native speakers tend to leave out what is commonly assumed, what those assumed things are is often hard to fill in for a non native speaker. In this case i would gues that:
      " 'produces (evidence for existence of)', 'presents' and 'shows he had'.. the letter" are the intended synonyms here.
      That these commonly assumed things can be vastly different even within the 'same' language but depending on geographical differences seems rather evident when for instance comparing daily uk english speech to daily us english speech. Another example would be the meaning of the word 'hockey' in Canada compared to other english speaking nations. As far as I've understood: best to avoid the entire subject when in Canada.

    • @wwtory
      @wwtory 3 года назад

      @@BlacksmithTWD Thank you very much for your kind and thorough reply. :')

  • @martinbennett2228
    @martinbennett2228 3 года назад

    Alex: This video needs a follow up on te impact of Gallileo's trial and condemnation on Descartes and other scientists/ philosophers.
    Interesting video.

  • @lukaszkulasek
    @lukaszkulasek 5 лет назад +80

    "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow than in the church."

    • @jordancox8294
      @jordancox8294 5 лет назад +7

      What is that from? The church didn't think the earth was flat in Galileo's time so I'm assuming this is from some earlier period.

    • @lukaszkulasek
      @lukaszkulasek 5 лет назад +8

      @@jordancox8294 yes you are right. True origins of this quote are unknown. I did put it here because I think it perfectly summarizes the way Galileo did think.

    • @jordancox8294
      @jordancox8294 5 лет назад +2

      @@lukaszkulasek oh ok. I had never heard it before so I was curious.

    • @tonydarcy1606
      @tonydarcy1606 5 лет назад +6

      Anyone living near the sea knew centuries before Galileo that the Earth was round. Eratosthenes had worked out the diameter of the Earth pretty accurately well before the Roman Empire and Jesus. When a ship comes or goes over the horizon the first / last thing you see is the top of the mast. Ergo the Earth is round.

    • @joekeenan6435
      @joekeenan6435 5 лет назад +3

      Europeans have know the Earth is round for 2500 years now, your quote is bogus

  • @ripley69
    @ripley69 5 лет назад +2

    Very well done, both in presentation and interpretation. Looking forward to more of the same.

  • @alecward895
    @alecward895 3 года назад +3

    I'm a pro-science atheist but as a student of history and philosophy, I had to dislike the video. The historicity is shakey at best, but the worst part is his repeated use of modern morality to issue judgement on the past. He claims the moral superiority of the scientific method in the same way a 17th century catholic would have claimed the supremacy of scripture. He only passingly references the fact that Galileo was doing the direct opposite of the scientific method by publicly pushing heliocentrism well before he had the evidence to prove it. Galileo was basically doing the same thing anti-vaxxers do today - the only difference is he eventually found evidence to support his claims while the anti-vaxxers have not (and likely never will.) It's easy to look back and say, well he was right, but how was the church to know that when everything they believed to be true pointed to it being wrong and he provided no evidence to back up his claim?
    Bad history like this, even when created with good intentions, ultimately does more harm than good.

    • @Alnivol666
      @Alnivol666 2 года назад

      True...and Cosmic won't pay any price for that. But the damage is enormous. I always wonder why people would come to a non-historian to learn about history. Historical analysis is a very complex thing and the fact that anti-theists just go at it with basically having no training in the historical method is an astounding work of arrogance.

  • @keiferalford7961
    @keiferalford7961 5 лет назад +1

    I hold a degree in which I majored in Theology from Trinity...good luck to you! I had a tough time gaining employment except through a Protestant religious organization and teaching. I eventually used my degree to become a State of Florida employee and I moonlight (my choice) at a local business.