BJJ Experts Break Down Lenny Sly's of Rogue Warriors Aikido Video
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- #Aikido In this Break Down video I sit down with my BJJ coaches to take a look at Lenny Sly's of Rogue Warriors "Aikido Pressure Testing - Kotegaeshi" video. Lenny Sly and his youtube channel The Rogue Warriors is one of the most known figures of Aikido online. While me and Lenny have different points of view, we also know each other personally and support each others work. This video was approved by Lenny Sly himself to promote open communication, being open to other people's feedback and growing together. Huge respect to Lenny Sly for that.
Check the original video here: • AIKIDO PRESSURE TESTIN...
Check Lenny Sly's channel: / @slyscombativeconcepts13
Check other Martial Arts Journey and Aikido Break Down videos: • MMA Experts Breakdown ...
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While me and Lenny have different points of view, we also know each other personally and support each others work. This video was approved by Lenny Sly himself to promote open communication, being open to other people's feedback and growing together. Huge respect to Lenny Sly for that.
Check the original video here: ruclips.net/video/DyeZ4epzMbs/видео.html
I also highly encourage to watch Lenny's follow up video with actual sparring: ruclips.net/video/2tV6mk4bPC4/видео.html
Check The Rogue Warriors channel here: ruclips.net/channel/UC-fnqzr38_yiPuO2xna1djQ
The follow up video has some interesting stuff! IMHO it seems to be a nice starting point for Aikido sparring... at least against not trained or particulary not very skilled opponents (plus, he could be more supportive... looks like those Ippo's coaches!)
"… to me pressure testing means, I’m in an attempt to do something and you’re gonna try to give me resistance so I’m not successfull.“ This statement from the very beginning indicates a restricted and therefore imo biased understanding of pressure-testing meaning that the BJJ guy has to detect some failure in the execution of a technique to conclude that „pressure“ has been applied. This boils down to an unsufficient understanding of internal aspects of aiki-application (i.e. aikijujustu stuff Rokas is not interested in and cannot execute) with rather breaking the posture/balance and exerting control via putting pressure into the system of the attacker while at the same time avoiding openings preventing successfull counterattacks.
ruclips.net/video/kmKtsKYOMbc/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/pTaaFT-CmZ8/видео.html
Same principles in TaiChi: ruclips.net/video/xj6WyzySuBg/видео.html #
Now a more aikidostyle application from C. Quakenbush with shionage and very good explanations:
ruclips.net/video/BAi7zE7HUes/видео.html
Here with a beginner:
ruclips.net/video/t520wEZhbh0/видео.html
Here trying to neuralize a Kimura lock:
ruclips.net/video/clxQ3qKpiCc/видео.html
This again differs from external execution and the search for workarounds, if an application fails and I have to change to another technique. That‘s what the BJJ guys sortet to when experimenting with the irmi-nage in a video before (interestingly with some insights which could have led them to a deeper understanding of working principles in this technique). Nice explanation of the difference between internal and external aspects from A. Mizner ruclips.net/video/rEqsv3vCjVY/видео.html
Yes finaly u did this video , i like his techniques bec some of it its more of a street relation
Please do not care about what a bunch of whiny losers say about your videos bro! Fake martial arts need to be exposed and those who take peoples money under the false pretense of teaching self defense need to be shamed!!!! I respect your friend for letting you critique his take on Aikido, that shows true character.
amuthi1 He meant that the intention was to make the technique fail. There is not an assumption that the technique will/must fail.
I've transitioned from aikido to judo for the similar reason, but actually, I found that I can pull off some of the aikido standing locks. It's just that you cannot expect clean technique like when you do kata. I think that aikido has some great aspects and it should not be dismissed.
Kata is kata...a means to pass down techniques and principles. It was never supposed to be realistic practice beyond ensuring that as you get better at it, the attacks become faster and as close to realistic as possible. The application of techniques can only come from practicing outside of kata, but many seem to watch a video of Aikido, presume it is showing something other than a demonstration of those techniques and principles, then say it's all bullshit and won't work 'on the street'...the failing is that many martial arts never practice outside of kata, or outside of pure technique practice. Aikido is never going to look like the videos in 'real life', but it was never supposed to.
Totally agreed, the only problem is that lot of aikido practitioners don't understand this, as the whole culture around it is pretty rigid, mostly as Japanese look at it as a national tradition and don't want to experiment much, or sometimes come up with some hilarious techniques that would never work.
@@Kilakilic Yep, the Japanese are very protective of things, often just the basics are shown and people just practice these not even aware there is more than they know.
I'm a judo and bjj player, you're better off learning judo and aikido, don't waste your time with bjj or mma. Life is not all about cage fighting and aikido is an art not to be ignored. It's just way too many people focusing on savage street and cage fighting; stay away from that madness and master judo and aikido
@markdaniels4178 lol yea of course "bjj player"
O Sensei and Sensei Nishio taught that 99% of effective aikido techniques were initiated with strikes. Both said the practice of aikido by letting uke grab you was not used in reality because you should never let uke grab you. It was only used in teaching principles. Effective aikido uses avoidance movements to create entry points and strikes to initiate effective techniques. Like most martial arts real aikido has practically disappeared.
"Both said the practice of aikido by letting uke grab you was not used in reality because you should never let uke grab you. " while in theory you should in fact not let Uke grab you, the general statement is simply wrong.
" It was only used in teaching principles. " Depends where you get grabbed. If someone is trying to grab your collar or shoulder: you are most likely better of if you let him.
However I agree with your general point.
Bro people are never happy when questioned their beliefs system
Oh course but we all need it so we don't become delusional and inflated.
He may of not felt happy but logically speaking he needed it.
Including their “non belief “ belief system
Yeah a fact every atheist is familiar with!
Mull M exactly, but they go nuts everytime somebody say’s something like this.
JoshMetal316 it’s not that we go nuts. It’s just you’re wrong.
Atheism *is* a lack of belief.
It’s not a belief system. There’s no code of values that all atheists follow. Being an atheist doesn’t say anything about your taste, or politics, or whether or not you’re rational. It just means that you don’t believe in a god.
1 thing I can say is stabbing works for sure. No need to test that one.
Hahaha true, but that’s a force multiplier; different rules for that.
I’ve been eye gouged, eye struck, groin grabbed, groin struck, fingers broken all of which needed er visits , but I finished my wrestling match/tournament, my football games, my surfing sessions....they are not guaranteed. Highly accomplishable, but with a low chance of game-changing.
@@sinaparsi6736 more up&down
I have chosen to keep practicing Aikido yet I will also train in BJJ and kickboxing. Aikido deals with things in my life that BJJ and Kickboxing classes don't not yet I am very thankful of your videos I hope you don't give up on Aikido keep both Aikido and BJJ
@mark daniels Aikido BJJ and Judo have the same roots so let study the roots and learn form the mistakes a person like my needs time to get away with competition to learn how to defend my core values without a tko and if that doesn't work I will have kickboxing to fall back on
I have trained in different systems a little, from an Aikido background. If I didn't have an Aikido background, I probably never would have done that. But having an Aikido outlook, I wanted to further my physical experiences and knowledge, but never wanted to abandon my home ,so to speak. FWIW
@@christianboddum8783 cool!
I’m in the same boat. I train BJJ / Kickboxing with Aikido. It’s the best combo in my opinion.
@@SeanEddy84 cool
Not sure about "trapping range doesn't exist". It's a snap moment in time. An entry. MacGregor uses trapping principles, as does lomachenko and buck grant in Muay Thai. Limbs often clash in street fights where pushing and shoving initiate the confrontation
I think you guys actually agree, he does say it's a snap moment in time. What does not exist is extended periods of fighting in this range, which some MA's emphasize.
Trapping... as in I pull down your lead hand with my lead hand and blast you with my cross, etc... does definitely exist... but trapping as in pak sao to bong sao to lap sao, as in Wing Chun and its variants... no not at all.
I use lap Sao all the time. But agree there are so many variances that come into play. I don't think they are something you can implement intentionally if that makes sense. As in you can't 'search' for the trap, it is just a case of removing barriers as they manifest.
Ive "trapped" real life fights. You swing on me and something happens to your limb. Basic kung fu/wu shu/ ti chi principals. Ive also developed it even further by refusing the trap but doing things unspoken of.
Shawn Jones Let’s see it then.
My only challenge I have with a lot of these analysis videos, are that they examine from a trained martial artist point of view. I am not sure how many experts actually engaged in some street combat, but I can say from personal experience that 80% if not more people who attack you are not trained fighters. Knowing some deflection techniques and quick lethal responses will keep you alive and give you some time to get out of there. Yeah and before all the keyboard warriors respond, I do believe that you should train as if your opponent knows what you know, but you would be surprised how much off guard you would catch someone with again some simple lethal techniques. Study the martial art that fits your spirit, than pressure test that martial art if you art taking that art for self defense. And I mean test in every possible encounter you think you may come across. I love healthy conversation that helps us build. I am also waiting for some one to start breaking down some BJJ techniques that aren't functional outside the competition arena.
MMA may not be creating a scenario in which trapping is worthwhile to train or use...I have personally used trapping in real life altercations as a bouncer/security for my family's college bars. Trapping is useful in all sorts of close quarters situations, ESPECIALLY if there is limited space or in a crowded environment.
I agree in certain situations trapping can help and work every ma has limits and advantages..
Awesome, video! Much respect for Leny Sly!
Rokas, let me first say that what you are doing and the discussion you have started is long overdue. You are doing the right thing and don't let anybody tell you different. I was not very happy with this video however. Lenny Sly is Aikido's answer to someone like John Pelligrini. Someone that explores the so-called combat side of a TMA. The problem is, and to quote your gentlemen instructors, non of the techniques are actually being pressure tested. In Sly's video, uke is being struck and is then flipping harmlessly into the air. There is no real resistance or effort to counter. I would love to see your instructors impresssions of Tomiki Aikido, especially the Toshu and Tanto randori competitions. Please understand that this will not look like Aikido to you, but it very much is. My background is not in Tomiki, but even I have to admit that it is the only style with any kind of pressure testing against a resisting opponent. You should show some basic Tomiki training (which will look more familiar to you) and the aforementioned competitions. That will be a fair analysis of a true Aikido style being tested against resisting opponents. I am always here to assist if you want to find some videos. Happy new year brother and God bless. Osu!
Hey Sohrab, I actually did just that: filmed a video of breaking down Shodokan videos starting with training methods and then competition. I will release it either this or next week
@@MartialArtsJourney This is fantastic. You are doing a real 360 degree analysis of Aikido. I also left Aikido after almost 10 years of regular training. Regardless of the haters comments there are probably thousands of other practitioners that are asking the same questions. Keep going. People need to have this conversation.
Sohrab Kazerooni Yes. I am disappointed no Tomiki Aikido shown, but the showy aikido of Doshu Ueshiba, and Gozo Shioda. Af their age not much different between those styles. Tomiki Aikido doesn’t get the exposure, prolly coz not as sexy :(
@UCDFdAnpFw-pEd82TnC_cNSA A breakdown of Tomiki Aikido is due by end of this week or beginning of next one
Notice that Cane says he can train the self defense aspect of BJJ in his imagination....when he just said he is not comfortable training anything that he cannot test. This is a necessary contradiction that one must adopt when you embrace the view that (safe) sparring is THE only true standard of all self protection training. By definition, you are not TESTING what you merely play out in your imagination. But of course, Lenny Sly's training is still magically "untested" even though working as a bouncer. I know of LEOs that use their Aikido skills all the time against resisting opponents who actually want to rip their heads off....but sportsmen still want to claim their training is "untested." It is foolish.
Way easier to test defenses to theoretical "no rules" stuff than offenses. ie:
"Reach for my eyes. Can I protect my face? Cool."
-VS-
"I can definitely stop someone with an eye poke. Probably."
James Owens Lenny Sly’s training is untested. There is no difference between Sly and any other aikidoka, his techniques are just as useless and his uke’s are just as compliant. I’ve never seen Sly against a resisting opponent and the fact that so many aikidoka think Sly is legit just implies low standards.
LEOs are a terrible example. A group of trained individuals are able to use aikido against someone who’s best interest is to comply... nah.
Here’s how you know if aikido is effective - watch someone use aikido to win a real fight. This will be hard to do because there is no footage like that out there. But keep having faith that aikido can somehow work. Even though there are many videos demonstrating that it fails under pressure.
@@jaymiddleton1782 Of course folks using Aikido effectively against resisting opponents are a terrible example for you. How could it be any other way in your worldview? Never mind just LEOs...I know a umber of everyday folks who have used their training to protect themselves against non compliant aggressors. But I am not foolish enough to think none of that matters because a guy named Jay on the internet insists it is not possible.
@@jaymiddleton1782 Lenny's target audience seems to be Aikidoka who have just woken up to the fact that their Aikido might not work (but don't understand why), so he presents them what appears to be a perfect solution. It's very cozy. They don't question the lack of pressure testing.
James Owens settle the argument, send the video.
Any video.
There isn’t even 1? Isn’t that suspicious to you?
If aikido was effective someone would have proven it by now.
If I could retort. I’ve practiced both Aikido and BJJ. My trouble with BJJ is that it’s a given you’re supposed to let somebody grab you. I trained Aikido with Reynosa Shihan. We were always taught to not let anybody grab you. When practicing BJJ I always deflected hands off my or put people in Nikyo when they grabbed my collar and they weren’t too happy about it. Why would I let you put your hands on me?
It's worth keeping in mind that resisting a technique like kote gaeshi immediately after being punched in the face is much easier said than done. If you don't mind being punched in the face once you can pressure test this.I remember in my teens one of the instructors at the Aikido dojo I trained at was demonstrating nikyo on me and he told me to resist as much as I could. I successfully resisted.Then he said "Okay I will try it a different way now and he will resist again."He then slapped me across the face so hard it practically echoed and did the nikyo effortlessly.Of course wether this concept works depends on various factors but I think it should be taken into consideration.
I think it is clear that actually getting punched in the face is a form of severe pressure testing all on its own. SBG does not do this for most of their own students....as retention would go down the tubes. I actually think Lenny was employing too much contact, and that this kind of training for any period of time is unsafe and counter productive. Saying you would definitely do X after you just got punched in the face is something to be regarded with extreme skepticism...which is what these coaches are supposed to have.
O Sensei and Sensei Nishio taught that 99% of effective aikido techniques were initiated with strikes. Both said the practice of aikido by letting uke grab you was not used in reality because you should never let uke grab you. It was only used in teaching principles. Effective aikido uses avoidance movements to create entry points and strikes to initiate effective techniques. Like most martial arts real aikido has practically disappeared.
It's a common trait in Asian martial arts that the practice and the application is different. Westerners don't like this. The problem is that true realism is not very safe in the long term.
It's amazing I have been in the martial arts for 60 plus years and seen various styles of martial arts training i.e. Judo, Aikido, Ju Jitsu, muay tai, and karate. Every one that practiced these styles of martial arts thought their style of martial art was the best in attack situation(s). Personally I believe practice what you like out of each style. Never let your style of martial arts stop your learning. My personal training would be what works in a full on street fight, (Judo, Karate, Ju Jitsu) against multiple attackers. I apologize if I've offended any martial artist and their style, this is only my openion.
Aikido works well when practiced correctly that guy is just a whole scrub period.
more power to lenny sly for approving this. that's the kind of honesty everyone's come to expect from him. thank you for doing this - all four of ya.
I wouldnt think hes too impressed with their assessment,hes very defensive on his videos of different opinions.
Aikido became to martial arts what Chinese calligraphy is to writing. Your approach is more aligned with Osensei than what many will teach you in their dojo. Keep up the good work. Thank you for exposing your work to us.
Calligraphy actually works as a form of writing. Aikido pretends to work as a form of fighting.
@@harageilucid4352 you've never seen aikido used by leo or first responders?
zendogbreath he said as a form of fighting, not as a form of control when multiple people are trying to subdue one person (as in the LEO example)
@@jaymiddleton1782 you've never seen one person subdue a few? what you might be missing in wahl's comment here is o'sensei's perspective. he was way bruce lee before bruce lee. he ruled nothing out.
just because rokas (and a long list of people) cannot subdue anyone with aikido is not o'sensei's fault. nor aikido's fault. it's their teachers' and rokas'. like matt thornton and co said. it's a function of competition and pressure testing.
more power to rokas for resolving that in spite of his teachers. but talking about aikido's pretenses? that's anthropomorphic and silly. and easier to see for what it is when you've seen a pressure tested aikidoka work under pressure.
zendogbreath I’ve never seen an aikidoka succeed under pressure, neither had anyone else, because there is no footage of it.
Please provide some if you have it.
But the evidence - and we can just RUclips for ourselves, shows that aikido doesn’t work. No one has used it against a resisting attacker. As soon as people start resisting it becomes tomiki aikido.
Tomiki aikido kind of proves that all other aikido is bullshit. If other aikido was real it would look more like tomiki.
But tomiki is one of the worst excuses for a martial art I’ve ever seen and anyone training in it would be better off doing judo.
If you do aikido now, quit ASAP.
I heard Tony Ferguson used Wing Chun-like trapping to win his most recent MMA fight - didn't see the fight so I'm not sure if it was the same thing that was discussed here.
MZITinfo you should watch it, Tony Ferguson did use it once in his previous fight,Joe Rogan called it the first time he saw wing Chun work in MMA.
@@elenchus interestingly enough, Carlson Gracie was very impressed with Mr. Samuel Kwok's Wing Chun back in the day, and even got together with him to do a joint seminar. There are skilled teachers out there, just few and far between.
elenchus the argument is trapping, and no tony doesn’t know wing chun but he does drills for it, I doubt he would have done it with pure boxing
Trapping range exists. No doubt about it. I've used it in a fight (albeit not as effectively as a training scenario, obviously), but trapping is a real thing. Not sure how anyone can deny that? It's not easy and doesn't happen every time, but it exists.
But if you are in a video and try to sound real confident and just declare it so....hopefully no one will dare call you out on it because to do so is to defy "experts." When "experts" tell you to ignore your own experiences as untrue, you know something is up. All such "experts" are trying to do is convince everyone else who never had those experiences. Unfortunately, sometimes that works.
Trapping exists. Trapping range does not.
not in the way its taught in wing chun and jkd it doesnt,muay thai, yes.
Is it more important than learning grappling though?
I agree with these guys. For self-defense purposes, you can ask yourself the questions raised here in an aikido class as you practice with someone. The gaps become obvious and you can work toward closing the gaps. At the same time, it isn't solely about self-defense. Self-defense is only one aspect of aikido. Second point about the danger of competing in aikido. I don't know why this keeps coming up. We already have empirical evidence that iriminage and shihonage have caused numerous hematomas leading to death in competitive situations. Go to Aikido Journal for the Waseda University study. It is dangerous. What more evidence do you want..? More people dying..? To prove what spurious sporting point. It's egregious and disgusting to keep suggesting that there's something wrong with assuming aikido training is not potentially fatal. Isn't it also naive to assume that jujitsu is proven to work all the time with all comers? Presumably there are levels of jujitsu, and so people with higher levels of skill would be able to discipline those with lesser. That is no different in aikido. Yes, there are grades appointed for length of practice and understanding the overall purpose of aikido, rather than technical ability alone, so it's hard to find people who are proficient in the street-wise sense you seem to be looking for. I would wager that you could spend a whole life-time trying to close that gap but still live in fear and loathing of others (particularly if you live in Neanderthal neighborhoods) and never learn to love people large or small. Perhaps in learning how to deal with all shapes and sizes in jujitsu, you may claim that your spirit mellows. If so, then that is what aikido claims as well, except we don't compete. We aikidoka don't, as far as I know, say that aikido is good in the ring. If it's good in the ring, I am not sure if it is good out of the ring, in the family, with spouses, kids, in the workplace, etc. Again, I'm tired of reiterating this but aikido is meant to be holistic. It's a life-style choice. It's about making the moral decision not to fight, sustain a fight or to finish one. It is about cultivating an awareness of our proclivity to be self-centered so as to overcome the urge to fight when we feel provoked. As a result of working on our inner issues, we learn to be kind people. Now, if you wanted to be strong martially, to be confident you can knock people out or to choke them or put them in some kind of hold. OK, that's your goal. But there is such a thing as the golden rule, as we all know. Aikido is about living and practicing that rule. Not to insult anyone, not to harm ourselves or others. It is about learning to tread lightly in this world in which we are guests for a limited time. Why would you ruin that for anyone, including your attacker? Why break someone's arm just because they want some money from you (if they are poor)..? Why attempt to harm someone if they are on drugs or drunk and saying and acting stupidly? Why do you even get into this silly argument about 'college level wrestlers' as if college level wrestlers go around harassing people? If that is the extent of your logic, then why not apply the same to yourselves and say something like "What if my MMA or Brazilian jujitsu teacher attacked me or my wife or my kid on the street...?" What would you do then..? Now, if that sounds ridiculous, tell me how it is any different to your questions? But let's just take this line of questioning at face-value. Wouldn't you end up talking sense into him...? Wouldn't you ask 'what's wrong..?' instead of assuming we all live in a dog-eat-dog dystopian world? In short, wouldn't you be doing aikido at that point, metaphorically speaking? Isn't the competitive rat-race assumption itself part of the on-going construction of a violent world, which you also have a hand in playing out..? Why can't we, instead, create our reality from within (daily or even from one mind-moment to the next.. why do I even have to attach myself to a movement I know how to execute in a millisecond, if conflict is best resolved by being present, receptive, giving..?) Why can't my perception of my attacker change (as it frequently does in aikido training) to "someone who's just had a bad day"..? I really think your idea of 'pressure testing' is based on this false assumption that we have to adapt to a reality that already exists 'out there..' I mean, the main difference I see between our arts is that aikido is based on the premise that we learn to create our reality from within (through cultivating respect, mindfulness, self-awareness, committing to moral actions and the welfare of the planet) while your regular martial sport appears to operate on an outside-in model of reality. Reality here is I assume big, bad and ugly... and leads to the stance of "how-will-I-cope-without-armoring-myself." I really don't like saying anything categorical like that because I feel we only fit uneasily into stereotypes, if ever. In my experience, no aikido school is the same and, to the extend they are, this is because of the uniformity put in place by their particular style, tradition, or master (who is usually Japanese by the way, or someone Western who is almost Japanese...). I believe the school of aikido Rokas studied is the Saito school. Now, I gather that this school is famous for not allowing free-flowing creativity until many years of basic techniques are drilled in. No doubt that causes a lot of frustration and a general suppression of doubt, when ideally we should be questioning what we do all the time, so that we can use aikido to teach ourselves about ourselves and human nature. In other schools, and perhaps my own experience at my own dojo is unique, we were given freedom from the start to think whatever we wanted, while attempting to practice the kata of four different styles of aikido. In the end, I became proficient in all of them but chose not to go with any of them, as I went on to analyze other subtler styles. I now teach a variety of moves derived from my experience of what works and what doesn't. But, I am also aware that you can't just teach that if you want people to "thrive" as well as to survive. People have to be strengthened over time before they can try some of these moves. I have a fear that perhaps in the more competitive sports like MMA and perhaps Brazilian jujitsu, you don't have as much room for losers. In aikido, we are all losers because we all suffer as sentient human beings with fragile bodies. What we do is gradually build people up so that they can be more confident within themselves and at higher stages even have the confidence to defend others on their behalf. But I don't see this level of confidence or empathy or compassion displayed here. The talk seems centered around a very narrow definition of 'what works?' which isn't even clearly articulated. Grappling was brought up as one criteria and the idea of fighting with knives was almost dismissed as a trivial addition to grappling. I don't think that's fair. And I also don't think it is a particularly intelligent comment without a more serious comparison with knife fighting experts. But while we are on the subject of comparison, aikido deals with multiple-attacker scenarios. I don't see any of these gentlemen talk about that. And that's probably natural because they don't have any solution to collective violence. Aikido, from the beginning, addresses all forms of violence by talking about the cause being in the human heart. This is why there is little need to keep adding on more and more techniques. We would waste lifetimes, risk broken bones and learn only to be competitive, while we could be having fun in the aikido class. I don't know what you think about joy because I don't know what your joys are in choking people or putting them in an arm-bar. But I do know that sharing a joy is a joy multiplied. The aikido dojo is somewhere we can go no matter how we are feeling and share in each others joy of being alive... I don't know anything more powerful than that. In my own experience of competitive sports, including combat sports, even when you beat someone, the pleasure of victory is short lived. I personally don't need to know and don't even care if Brazilian jujitsu or MMA has been proven to work for many people. I don't need external 'proof' to know that I feel great doing aikido and feel less than human (very small) when I play competitively. As for Lenny's pressure-testing vids. I feel sorry for his ukes. I don't know if you noticed but he was hitting them in the head multiple times. Even with head-gear, I very much doubt if that is healthy or joy inducing, even for the performer. And, as you say, it only proves that Lenny can hit others who are compliant. But I felt gutted that you guys couldn't see the inhumanity of hitting people like that. Even boxers don't hit each other this way in training. It would be unfair, without teaching people how to get out of the way of jabs first. It would be unfair in kata-like training that Lenny shows to hit people hard and repeatedly like that. As any medical doctor knows, any strike to the head which causes people to clutch at their heads, as we saw in the clips shown, is a sign of mild brain damage taking place. In short, it would be immoral, even a little bit silly, to keep doing that if the idea is, at least in part, to preserve the integrity of our training partner(s). As viewers of these videos, I think we can be forgiven for believing that we have just entered a Brave New World, one where student have the satisfaction of getting beaten by their instructors in the name of furthering lasting peace... Alas.
the problem with people is if they cannot make a technique work they will just easily dismiss it. Bruce Lee could make trapping work but most people arent Bruce Lee.
@@DuplicitousDark Some beginners do that. And some intermediate and advanced people also if they aren't used to putting their own blood and sweat and tears into what they do. They want easy answers to the human condition. Sports like MMA and Brazilian jujitsu make life seem easier by offering a progressive system of achievement, as if climbing higher makes us better people, worthy of love, recognition, self-esteem. Aikido doesn't work at that level. We in aikido are doing love, because the teaching is that we are love: our inmost being is love. To intentionally harm someone or to train as if it is OK, off the mat, to cause harm is spiritually stupid. Spirituality, if it means anything at all, surely starts with the realization that we are all one. That's the basic premise. Turns out, we have more scientific reasons to believe this than ever before, so much so that to maintain 'competition' as if separation and conflicts between egos will always be with us seems, how can I say it...stupid, if not obscene. MMA and Brazilian Jujitsu contests are really shameful, and spiritually primitive, socially grotesque. And I am not saying this because of any subjective feelings I may have for aikido. It's just plain and simple, obvious psychological fact. It really is delusional to maintain that there is something like a martial ego worth preserving, fawning over, giving medals to. There is something sick about climbing the ladder to martial fame out of unrepentant envy. It is just so monumentally insensitive, a denial of human life, and maintains the ignorant and ignoble distinction between human beings as winners and losers. Instead of helping people gain self-confidence from within, it focuses on how we perform outwardly in arenas designed to praise brutality. What other words can we have for this except "sick"?
I dont understand your argument that iriminage and shihonage are too dangerous, I looked them up and they're quite elaborate but they dont look like they're that much worse than any other throw. Could you direct me towards the waseda university study which says that those techniques caused death? Im kind of curious but im having a hard time finding it, thanks.
@@kingofaikido Also, I dont understand what makes bjj "spiritually primitive" and "socially grotesque". BJJ competition isnt really dangerous at all. Its a controlled grappling contest that gets stopped before any bodily harm occurs. Its a very technical sport with an almost endless number of ways to play, and its a lot of fun for those who like it. If anything, I dont see why you're singling out BJJ and MMA over other dangerous martial arts competitions, like full contact karate, judo, wrestling, muay thai, kudo karate, and so on. What about BJJ and MMA specifically makes them so bad?
Wtf? BJJ experts saying that trapping range doesn't exist? Go and watch Tony Ferguson's MMA fights.
@ to make it consistently works, it should consistently be practiced.
Trapping can work with just one punch. After that the receiving end will clinch or step back. Trapping range does not exist like it is trained in Wing Chun or Jeet Kune Do when your adversary stay planted throwing punches.
@ right, because when jon jones and anderson silva consistently do it it just doesn't count plus in boxing, the gloves are huge, so a pretty open guard by other standards works a lot better most of the time, but they do do a lot of "lemme get your hand out of the way" that is some sort of equivalent that works for them, constantly.
@ even boxers are constantly doing some equivalent of it, and most experient MMA fighters do some sort of trapping or at least try to with a sort of "lead hand searchy thingy" all the time, and it gets ko's, all the time.
Yup. Had the same impression when I saw Sly Sensei's video. Fast an strong technique executed against fast and strong blows, but no pressure testing (though it was definitely aikido technique), as there was no resisting after the first blow was deflected.
Sly Sensei uploaded a second video on that, which was way better in terms of pressure testing, but covered only the hand deflections, rather than the full techniques.
The follow up video was really awesome. I liked it a lot
@@MartialArtsJourney Oh, Yeah. Sly Sensei's corrections along the video were really instructive!
How many of you can take a counter and keep "resisting" ?
The main thing is the entry.
After this, you can do the fuck you want.
I see nothing wrong with the demonstration, it's one way to do it.
Monsieur Chips strange question. Many, many people can take a counter and keep resisting. Pretty common scenario in a gym.
@@Freejason33 Straight right counter, upper counter, hook counter aiming at chin or temple.
Maybe you are in metal but from my perspective, that's a Ko.
Even more if you have no gloves.
That punch and "Guess who's baaaack :D" fucking gets me every time I see it.
It's kinda funny to compare Lenny reaction to Master Wongs reaction
Good point. Lenny Sly in this case is nothing like Wong
Aleksis Armendariz hi,
In what video Wong is involved?
@@rrt1592 you sound like a closet homosexual. Sad
Generally, I agree with the sentiments presented here. Here's a question/critique for consideration. What if you're pressure testing, but you just happen to be the best in the room? How can you be sure the results you prove in your experiments really would apply consistently to real life?
Speaking from my own experience, I used to use my grappling skills to submit or at least go toe-to-toe with partners who were much bigger than me. It built up my faith in grappling skill being able to save me -- until I was in a small tournament match with someone who had 100 pounds on me. I defended myself okay, but I was disappointed that all my best strategies that I thought I had proven to work in my pressure testing suddenly didn't apply to this opponent.
The results of our pressure testing can be influenced by our own biases or training environments. In my opinion, it is best to aim to be well-rounded, pressure test what you can, and in the end in real life you have to rely on your instincts.
I have watched a lot of videos about aikido. And generally agree. But what is the point ? If a person wants to do BJJ let them do it. If they want to do aikido let them do it. Don’t know what the obsession is with knocking aikido especially since you are shodan? There is a lot more to aikido that just fighting. It is good you are in combat art. Stay there . Be happy for your time in aikido
These two guys look like nerds. But could probably take apart 99 percent of people, including Lenny Sly. I am about to start BJJ at 55 yo. I have almost 40 years of Tae Kwon Do and boxing and am looking forward to being a white belt and seeing what I’ve been missing. Any tips from either of these guys ? Sorry about the nerd comment. You both just look like the type that would be underestimated in a fight.
Dont be afraid to ask questions, and enjoy the process 🤙
Welcome aboard :) think of it as a marathon not a sprint, expect to be caught a lot by younger, faster people, and stay as fit as you can to protect against potential wear and tear / injuries, I do this at age 37 and I've been training for 7 years now :)
And yes, ask as many questions as you can of your coach and people with more skill, that's the only "shortcut" I can think of that actually exists :)
Avoid training with 20-somethings and fresh white belts. When passing guard, protect your face from spazzy kicks. Speak up when you're being made very uncomfortable. Tap out early, don't test the limits of your joints or neck.
Congrats George. You will love the journey. As an older grappler your game will be built on survive and defense in that order. Survival is a great skill and completely necessary. Keep looking for it in your study. It is the foundation for everything else Jiu Jitsu. Especially for the older grappler.
If Lenny Sly gets it to work it works for him. Having said that not everyone can get it to work.
Also trapping can be something as simple as pushing someone’s hands away or arms down
I also don’t understand the thought that grappling in the street...you can be jumped, or shot or stabbed.
With all due respect, I find a bit too much snobbism in this episode. Please ask these gentlemen to show how they pressure test their wrestling techniques against boxer punches. They don’t. Oh wait, I almost forgot - their use their imagination. And hope to grab an arm with a knife to start wrestling with it. That’s great. But somehow the Aikido guy who is actually trying to do what Rokas was supposed to be doing for the last year or so - making his Aikido more functional, ended up being blamed for using too much imagination. At least they admitted Aikido would work in a bar. And that’s what it is created for, not for cage fights, but to extinguish the fight in the first place. Nothing stops you during Aikido training to make an attack as fast as you want or as forceful as you want. The purpose is to build muscle memory to avoid being punched until the attack becomes meaningless. And with years of repetition and progressive increase in intensity it should be possible to apply these techniques in RL.
What got me was that they admitted that it did not matter to them if Lenny actually used this against resisting and uncooperative opponents a myriad of times before. This is a confession that evidence does not matter in their worldview. This should have set off alarms for anyone watching with open eyes.
SBG does train boxing as well. They didn't say Aikido needs to work in the cage, they said the baseline for self defense should be the average varsity wrestler in a street fight. The drunk guy at the bar is far too low of a threat to set as your baseline.
@@Freejason33 It was the "experts" in the video who arbitrarily set "the drunk guy at the bar" as their manufactured baseline. They came up with this on their own. They did this to malign the work of others while appearing to be reasonable and rational while doing so.
@@jamesowens9710 no, Lenny's whole fight resume of "bouncer at a bar" sets the drunk guy baseline. Lenny often says he doesn't need to work with boxers or wrestlers because he's anecdotally never encountered one in his line of work.
@@Freejason33 Lenny nowhere said drunk guys are the baseline of anything. Those self declared "experts" manufactured that to downplay Lenny's training and experiences. The attempted manufacture of data one does not have is neither honest nor reasonable. Secondly, if Lenny has never encountered well trained boxers and wrestlers in his work, who is to say that is untrue or that he only experiences drunks? I tended bar for years myself....and by no means was every problem child drunk. Not even close. Actually, only a small minority were.
Which of the 2 guys here in your video has actually been in a real street fight?
I have been in quite a few and in fact most "street fighters" are self inflated idiots. They want to pick on some one who they think they can beat. They don't fight "fair" in picking the same weight class or size. They try to sucker punch you and otherwise get an advantage. If you can box, wrestle or do any trained martial art - you have an advantage in knowing range and you have practiced hitting and being hit. Look at Kimbo Slice - monster street fighter and in MMA he was terrible - why? Trained fighters.
@@ironwolfgaming9632 You're right. Kimbo was a terrible MMA fighter. He quickly rose to prominence because of his street fight. They were basically unskilled guys throwing random punches with no technique or style. What are your thoughts on taking what is useful in an art and discarding what's useless?
@@SugarRayCharles. you should always question your skill. Look what the Gracie BJJ did in early UFC days. Then you had Matt Hughes and wrestling, Lyoto Machida era with Karate and so it goes - until the absolute pressure testing of live fighting finds the weakness and strength of what actually works. It all changes when you do what these folks are doing - show the technique and then learn what counters it. I always had 3 basic combinations - now the thing was which one did I throw as the fight went on - was it a grabbed arm and a back fist? Did I step in as they tried to grab me and land a hook? A leg kick from range? You don't need many things - just a couple that stand the test of time.
@@rrt1592 I would have thought with all your skills that you would use ninja magic to teleport to me and kick my butt. Sorry, but even Bruce Lee one of the most famous - had a grand total of 2 real fights and he said himself he was disappointed at how badly he did and that started Jeet Kun Do.
@@ironwolfgaming9632 to be fair, Bruce still practiced Wing Chun even after evolving his JKD. His foundation was absolutely still there, and he cross trained with Wong Shun Leung until his last days. His Wing Chun was always evolving, but every great fighter does this. They evolve their style to fit their personal needs. Wong Shun Leung did this as well, and always encouraged his students to test against other styles.
They should analyze Bruce Bookman’s video of pressure testing Aikido. Would love to see that!
same :)
my thanks to that guy for the explanation of trapping range it was very good as reason why very rarly my wing chun tecniques work only against a total noob in fhiting and never with a fighter
Great call on training for high school wrestlers
Lenny Sly just got another subscriber.
Many nuggets here, my favorite video yet. Training self defense while rolling by asking oneself if my eyes are vulnerable, if yes, adjust, etc. I like!
It’s not true that trapping range does not exist in MMA Tony Furgeson used it to tie up Anthony Pettis’ hand in their fight about a month ago.. and came over the top with an elbow.
It just looked nothing like Kung Fu. Because it wasn’t. It was a hand trap with an elbow over the top. MMA style. The key here is many things. It was used at a point in the fight where Furgeson had control. Things were messy. It allowed him to keep being aggressive but afforded him more protection than simply swinging. I’m not arguing for Kung Fu’s existence in an MMA context. And from the off it is clear that boxing / Kickboxing is superior at range. Don’t get me wrong. But the commenter in the video claimed there was no such thing whatsoever as a trapping range because you are immediately grappled, which isn’t true. Under the right conditions and when executed intelligently, a simple handtrap to elbow over the top worked. Give it the credit it deserves. After all.. they were the ones banging on about pressure testing!
Why does it take so much effort convincing the Aikido community that what they do will be taken seriously once one of them actually beats someone up? Someone that's trying to beat THEM up at the same time? Aikido guys continue to scratch their heads as if the concept "prove it" were among life's greatest mysteries or as if it were being said in Swahili. Get on with it, already!
I like how Lenny Sly is the John McEnroe of Aikido. Aikido needs that, but if he really wants to bridge the gaps of the style he will need to do what Rokas has done and reach out to people outside of his style.
Jason Tucker I like the idea of the "John macenroe " of aikido that's pretty much it
Lenny Sly said he has experience in other martial arts, but likes Aikido as a platform. What a lot of people seem to not understand is that very few of the big masters of any art are proficient only in the said art. If we're talking about Aikido... Well, Christian Tissier was in a kick boxing team. Seagal has black belts in various martial arts, besides Aikido, and has some experience in Wing Tsun. Steve Magson is a master of Kendo and Iaido, among other things. And so on.
@@Tigermaster1986 I don't doubt that he has been exposed to other styles. My comment was more that he was using a tool found in other styles, and he took it upon himself to apply it. He said people asked for pressure testing, but he has really only changed gear and intensity. If I went to a boxer, wrestler, BJJ, or Judo student and said help me pressure test this, they would all expect they are supposed to stop me from doing it. To answer the question posed from someone from Combat Sports I would like to see him get the help of someone from that field.
Jason Tucker I think Lenny is a huge fraud whose been flying under the radar. He just swapped out hakama for combat pants and started calling aikido tactical.
But just because he screams and actually hits and hurts his uke’s doesn’t mean what he’s doing is any more effective. It’s the same compliant, non pressure tested nonsense as any aikido.
I’m reasonably confident Lenny will gravitate further and further away from aikido as he tests it more. That or he’s going to gravitate away from testing.
Why don't you simply `cut to the chase` Get one of your BJJ experts on the mat with Lenny or some one who knows what they are doing in a Dojo instead of the safety of your office,this will prove one way or another instead of just `yapping` about how perfect your new flavour is.
Exactly, put all his BJJ folks against Aikido practitioners or a martial art he doesn't think is functional and let's go from there.
I haven't watched the video yet, but what nonsense is this logic? I box, but I don't need to be hit to see if someone has a good jab. Analysis has its place, and this series of videos is analysis. I've criticized Rokas's movement before, from the lens of a boxer, and now someone else is being criticized from the lens of bjj. It's for mutual understanding and improvement.
Rokas is absurdly humble
The BJJ guys would wipe the floor with them.
Belief I Am. They did that once it was called UFC 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and then it evolved.
Im pretty sure there are loads of videos from old UFC matches of people using styles like Aikido and getting mopped.
I appreciate the commitment of the BJJ experts to stick with techniques that can be empirically validated as functional under pressure. However, validating such techniques in the dojo, or even through competition, is not the same thing as verifying empirically whether a technique is likely to be effective under deadly conditions, such as in real world deadly violence scenarios.
Somewhere around 8:30 of the video one of the coaches does what they seem to criticize practitioners of other systems for doing: that is, trying to assure themselves that their own system will work under deadly violence by resorting to thought experiments and imagination.
If the BJJ experts are going to rely on thought experiments to bridge the gulf between what works in the dojo and real world scenarios involving deadly violence, then they ought to acknowledge out loud that BJJ is not empirically verified for self-defense against deadly violence.
There is no logical problem with citing a-priori arguments that they feel justify their belief that BJJ would be an important tool in their self-defense repertoire, but then they should acknowledge that their evidence is limited, pretty much like most other systems. They could, of course, justifiably continue to argue that their system has better a-priori arguments than other systems: but they must not pretend that their a-priori arguments are equivalent to empirical evidence.
To put it another way, you can claim to have empirically tested something in the laboratory, and you can use those results as a-priori evidence for what should happen in the real world, but you should not conflate that to mean that your empirical lab results are empirical real-world results.
So, if the goal is to claim that there is empirical evidence that BJJ is suited for real-world self-defense against deadly violence, then it is necessary to show empirical evidence of that claim in real-world situations. That is possible. For example, there are videos on-line showing examples of people reacting to deadly violence using various means of unarmed combat.
Bottom line, it would be interesting to see how your coaches approach this issue: are they willing and able to argue that BJJ is effective for self-defense against deadly violence based on empirical evidence of real world attacks? Or will they take a reduced claim and acknowledge that they are limited to offering a-priori and thought experiment evidence of its effectiveness in the real world:
put on the gloves and spar,its been done a million times in bjj schools for the last 30 yrs and more.Thats the only training and proof you need.Real street proof isnt a viable experiment to do as you cannot keep looking for fights so its supplementary evidence to sparring.
@@scarred10 OK, and this particular sparring situation, I’m bringing a gun and knife and a baseball bat. Are you still ready with your little butt scooting routine and your knuckle gloves?
Happy New year Rokas. It might be interesting if you did a video with Lenny discussing your different views on Aikido. What do you both agree on and where is it you disagree?
It would be more interesting if they were actually peers. Not even close.
I think the biggest difference between Lenny and Rokas is their willingness to learn from outside sources. Stepping up the intensity of training inside your own school is a great start, but people with different strategies can show you blind spots you never knew existed.
Once during a BJJ roll that started standing up I was flipped by an wrist throw that I, in my inexperience, would call "aikido", whilst fully resisting... I guess it's situational.
I call BS
@@jameschristopher3405 true regardless.
Matheus Adorni Dardenne if you were fully resisting and it was a aikido throw as you suggested you would have a broken arm/wrist.
@@jameschristopher3405 no, that's the thing... it comes a point where you realize either you roll/jump (which leads to you being flipped around) or it will break.
Matheus Adorni Dardenne that would be called ukemi or break fall. I have a bb in judo, 4kyu in aikido, purple belt in bjj. You are making shit up my friend... its very apparent.
For what it’s worth, you three are doing an excellent job with your channel and your evaluations.
Be advised though, don’t over think things. I practiced judo for a minimum of 7yrs, and I could bite, spit, head butt, kick, punch, pull hair, and even gauge the eyes during training.
BJJ is very effective, and in sparing , combine both standing and ground fighting whilst wearing protective gear, so you can safely practice gauging and tearing soft tissue targets.
I have used judo in my line off work, and if I can use this art to my advantage, then BJJ will defiantly have no issue whatsoever!
Keep up the good work guys!
Whether you do the kotegaeish throw or not you're still training to deflect punches and move. Great video by Lenny.
Trapping range does exist. Just don't stay in it. What they say about it isn't wrong, but the conclusion assumes that every fighter in every fight you will ever face will wrestle and try to take you down. There are risks to grappling, other people, hard environment, etc. If you face a striker or a wise grappler who knows when he can't do what he wants, then you are fighting in the striking ranges. Trapping exists, it occurs between long and close range striking, and helps you pass safely between them.
Trapping exists between close range striking and clinching, and only lasts a split second. Grappling does not equal ground fighting. All the clinch work in Muay Thai and boxing is technically grappling. Standup grappling is what quickly replaces trapping range. Even wrestling matches start on the feet.
Love the vid and the information that was given by two pros that know about resistance.. it’s real out here in these streets and I’m glad people like you , and Lenny are exposing that.. I’m one of you guys I pressure test everything thing I know as a ninpo taijutsu practitioner.. I learned over the years a hell of a lot about what works and what doesn’t.. love your work my friend and keep pressing forward on your journey!
Hello. Thanks for asking questions. Don't ever stop as that is how we move forward as martial artists! So, full disclosure, I'm neither an expert at Aikido or BJJ, but I did train in Aikido under Kangas Sensei, who trained under Kurita Sensei, and I'm currently training BJJ under Professor Arthur Ruff, who trained under Professor Rodrigo and Carlos Gracie, and I think that both have something to give a martial arts practitioner. When I first studied Aikido, there were techniques that I practiced that I told myself I would never use in a real life situation, and others that I would definitely use. The same is true with BJJ. I think both martial arts work well against untrained opponents with BJJ having the edge (IMO), but in real life, when punches are involved and the other guy doesn't care about hurting you and there is no ref... I think both fall short in some respects. For BJJ, it's simply the slam. I'm sorry, but there is a reason slams are disallowed in BJJ competitions and it's because they will 'ef you up, and that's on a cushioned mat. Slam somebody trying to armbar you on concrete and it's fight over. Having said that, I'm going to keep training BJJ, well, once my injured ribs have healed up. :)~
It's interesting to see that hard to Hurt Channel states that trapping weight does exist and from my own training background the art wrapping techniques with in boxing they're just extremely brief in which an opponent perrys or pushes down a job or across and immediately follow up with a jab or Cross of your own
Doing only Aikido for 5 years straight I had doubts that any of my Aikido training works at all in "real life". One day I went to a Judo school just trying out Judo, and before that I actually stumbled upon plenty of videos where Aikido didn't stand a chance against Judo. The first Judo practice I did was the groundwork and was taught the Kesa Gatame grip. Maintaining the Kesa Gatama as a beginner was hard as everyone else had learned ways of escaping it, but I slowly started realizing that a certain type of practice in my Aikido training made my newbie Kesa Gatame grip so effective the sparring went on for minutes - staying centered and not resisting. Maybe it was the style of Aikido I was doing (Ki Aikido) that made these brown belts and black belts feel as if they're being gripped by a pro-wrestler, they couldn't believe a newbie like myself was able to give them a great challenge until I told them I had 5 years experience of training with Aikido. And to be precise, my Aikido training wasn't solely doing techniques step-by-step like how your old Aikido videos promoted but we're also trained in many advanced, "lost" techniques: henka-waza, kaeshi-waza and takemusu no aiki. There is a video around in RUclips in French performed by a French-Moroccan Aikidoka on kaeshi-waza against judo techniques - it is a way to exploit techniques of any martial arts that isn't performed properly.
Even when training Judo I still follow Judo rules but apply Aiki principles to Judo - and that is how a lot of Judo blackbelts were baffled as to how a newbie can master Judo movements in their first session.
A huge point Lenny was making in that video is about nage. Nage needs to get use to actually making contact with uke's face before putting on the kotegaeshi, hence the protective gear. Tons of folks are missing that point. Also, uke hopefully will be stunned by the punch to face allowing nage time to apply the technique. That is why uke is "coperating". Another poster mentioned that the technique can be get gotten out of easily, which is correct. However, this escape can only be done if there is an opening. No opening, no escape.
People can walk through punches. You can't rely on a stunned response as some sort of opening for Kotegaeshi. There's no excuse for Uke cooperation just to simulate this supposed stunned response. Then call it pressure testing when the Nage is receiving no pressure. The Nage doesn't just need to get used to making contact, he needs to get used to taking contact.
One of the flaws to this criticism is that for self-defense none of these BJJ techniques come with accurate assumptions about how people that accost you on the street with guns actually behave either. I've had guns pulled on me before. People don't walk up and put agun to you standing right in front of you like the movies. You are never within range to control their hands, that's some delusional assumptions from these guys. When someone gets the drop on you with a gun they are 10-15 feet away and you have zero chance of closing the space before you get shot. They might be 10 feet behind you or they are in a car. You can't grapple a crew in a car on the street with gun or guns on you when you are many feet away on the sidewalk.
@Gangstarji It looked to me like the bjj experts were the ones saying dumb shit implying that their training would be more effective in practical self-defense in the real world than Lenny Sly whom they critique. I don't see their credentials being any more credible for real world self-defense than Lenny Sly which is what they imply. They are the ones making a video trying to discredit someone else's work while even admitting they don't even get the point of this singular video.
@Gangstarji They imply they know their techniques are more effective in real world situations because they believe their training is more effective than Lenny Sly's when they are only judging based on one video rather than the entirety of training. Their critique is semantics, nothing else. They needlessly disparage Sly's experience as a bouncer with no actual knowledge of what that experience even is, they just make assumptions.
@Gangstarji Send me a link when these bjj guys post a video 'pressure testing' real life self-defense against knives and guns. Then we can continue.
Agreed. Throw in a rusty knife and all bets are off.
Excellent intro and nice to see the respect being shown to a fellow martial artist while offering constructive criticism. At 52 I still have to learn many things but equally there are many things I've learned, one of which is that no formal martial art is the "best" or even particularly "good" in real self-defense situations. What all formal martial arts training offers is a range of physical and mental tools which can be useful in such situations. Good training develops physical strength and stamina, mental fortitude, spatial awareness, understanding and application and application of body mechanics, and too many other skills to mention here. For that alone it is a fantastic tool to develop as a person.
Let's be honest, only a tiny proportion of our lives is conducted in encounters of physical violence, with far more being (sensibly) spent in more productive and joyful activities. It is in that arena that martial arts has mostly contributed to my life. Every martial art I have studied has taught me something useful I can apply in the life I live every day, and every instructor I've had has contributed to that. For those gifts I am grateful.
I have a personal perspective on life which biases my preferences towards what might be loosely called "non-aggressive" arts, and probably because of that i have taken greater joy from aikido than say Judo, jujitsu or karate. Another person, with different preferences or aims might very well find what they want in something different. That's the beauty of what makes us individual humans, and the message of harmony offered by aikido has resonated with me like no other martial art.
p.s. I agree completely that this not pressure testing :)
Hand trapping does work. But it's not a range in and of itself, it's something you use at boxing range to move someone's hand out of the way so you can strike them and they cannot block. Or at least that's what I use it for when I'm doing Muay Thai, boxing and MMA.
So there are a few details to unpack here in all fairness. Slys Aikido isn't traditional aikido. It is a system directly invented by Steven Seagal known to his aikido students as Take Sensei. It's designed for combat against multiple attackers and the idea was to be so skilled no one could get you to the ground. There are multiple ufc fighters who are virtually impossible to take down. It is a system called Tenshin aikido. There is a great documentary called "Path Beyond Thought" that goes into detail about the aikido steven segal does and teaches. Sly, I believe learned from Take Sensei, Sensei Larry Reynosa and Matsuoka Sensei, both Seagals top instructors. Now for the pressure test, I feel it's only fair to point out that they do indeed do pressure tests w multiple attackers attempting to clobber the crap out of you and you have to defend your self. It is the Shodan test for blackbelt called the 3 man Randori and it is a very difficult test and rarely does anyone pass the first few times. Here is an example of what I mean. Go to 23 minutes into the video where the 3 man Randori shodan tests begin and check it out. I appreciate the fact that they train like this.
ruclips.net/video/JrDrJptE9tA/видео.html
Honest, respectful, fair review of Lenny.
Ignore the haters buddy. I have a high amount of respect for what you're doing. For someone to have immerse themselves in Aikido and to learn that it didn't work and doesn't work while running a youtube channel with followers and students. Then to drop it off and follow your martial arts journey for real methods that's proven to work.. its unbelievable. I know I don't have the balls to do that.. so hats off to you.
Its actually a massive contribution to the martial art community yet closed-minded "martial artist" that doesn't want to be tested is living in a dream world.
Its a massive contribution to any women or young people who wants to learn how to defend themselves in a live situation that's been tested in live training and competition THEN to have them going into a dojo of experts that has not been live tested/pressure tested and no evidence that it actually works. It's simply just too dangerous and also a rip off to go pay for lessons that is NOT what they were after.
Keep up the good stuff buddy.
From a follower in Australia. :)
I'm shocked. The BJJ expert in the center doesn't even realize that when a wrestler or BJJ practitioner SPRAWLS you're working inside of "trapping range". Period. Case closed. Every martial art has techniques specifically for work inside of trapping range. When a good boxer realizes they're too close to throw a jab or uppercut they [shoulder bump] to create space and then blows. What does a Muay Thai man do in trapping range? They foot sweep, clinch or throw. So, our BJJ expert doesn't even understanding what trapping is NOR how its applied in grappling. Wow.
I’m no expert in the field but my thoughts is that Aikido is a self defense art that is meant to be used against the average joe on the streets. It isn’t a art intended nor will it be effective against martial arts professionals in tournaments. That’s for MMA fighters. Steven Seagal is the most famous Aikido practitioner in modern times and he is about 80% Aikido and 20% a mixture of other martial arts. You learn the basics from your particular art, take the most effective techniques from that art, and dabble in other arts to make your particular art more effective in real life scenarios.
it would be kind of you to name your Bjj instructors
Cool video! You should get these guys to react to aikidoflow.
Man, I really hate the fact you're getting backlash! I used to train Aikido and now a blue belt in BJJ, and love both arts! My training in Aikido has been amazing and useful even in my BJJ career, and when I get further in BJJ, I would like to go back to Aikido to learn more.
Ya know.. it's really tiresome to keep hearing people from the various arts say, in a nut shell "My art is the best and is the only one that works.. your art doesn't work because it's not pressure tested". What a load of crap!!
We are all individuals and not everything will work for everyone. Cross training is the only way to find the right combination. Choose wisely..!!
How do you know if it works if its not pressure tested?
@@lurkingposter
Pressure testing is not always practical. Sparr, train, roll, work hard to achieve your goals. The reality is.. pressure testing everything will get someone injured and that's foolish.
ameridote is the best martial arts ! you can't deny that ! pressure testing everyday on youtube :)
@@elenchus
Lol.... Mmmmmm... Koolaid!!
@@elenchus
Lol...lol.. thanks for the laugh. :-)
Everyone taking this soooo personally. If Lenny is the answer to making Aikido into a “functioning” fighting style or to better understanding the style, then taking criticism from other disciplines is going to be key. They are going to see a flaw in the design better than someone deeply entrenched in Aikido because they are picking it apart as a boxer, BJJ fighter, or even another stylized discipline like Capoeira. It sounds like Lenny is not objecting to such insight and willing to hear what is said. Therefore everyone else needs to take a deep breath, help make your style better for you and future generations.
I believe Rokas should change his Samurai/Aikido hairstyle and get a shorthair curt, to look more BJJ or MMA for a fully transition to his new competitive sport.
What exactly is a Samurai haircut?
Napoleon Fernandez He wants to look like his secret idol - Steven Segal ;-)
If he wanted to look like segal his hair would be spray painted on lol
his long hair is used to pull in the women. I doubt he's shaving anytime soon. :)
Ahh the pursuit of certainty and with it, safety. Neither exist of course, although at least you will have a higher confidence level in BJJ due to the pressure-testing and resisting. The art will not apply to all environments, but it is easy to imagine that Brasil is an ideal environment for adapting a martial art into something more functional. These videos are as much about a quest into one man's philosophy as they are about a MA or art form, and should be taken as such. I find them to be a good watch and appreciate the upload and path he is taking, do lower the snobbery and obvious fan/deity worship just a tad though..
I like their take on rules at end of video. Positional dominance is real.
This is great bro, thanks for the upload.
I guarantee there is a difference between no rules bjj and competition bjj. Not saying someone who trains competition isn't going to be tough in the streets but if someone knows how to kick and punch and keep distance it's a different ball game.
"Rules are here to protect you from me" Lmfao
Rules are here to be able to grapple.
Try to grapple with someone who is actually trying to bite you, to tear your ears off or to poke your eyes.
@@adamturowski3765
True, I forgot you start the fight with opponent in your back.
@@MonsieurChips There are videos of people doing just that...
@@MonsieurChips I am just trying to point out that your dirty tricks won't work in a grappling situation, when someone has dominant position on you - for example knee on belly, mount or back mount. It is all about managing distance.
@DragonDad Reviews Of course there is a difference otherwise these would be the same. However competition and no rules have a lot in common like:
- aggressive stranger who really wants to rip your head off
- nerves and adrenalin rush
So competing prepares one for non rules fight as it allows to experience above over and over again in relatively controlled environment. And getting reps is the key to mastering the skill.
As far as trapping range goes it is somthing that happens in a split second so to drill multiple moves is not functional but to incorporate an eye jab off of a parry is pretty functional.
I believe that the best way to pressure test is to tell each person be the Tori at the same time, let them both be the attacker and tell them both to attempt the technique at the same time, then there will be real resistance, the fact seems to be everyboy wants to be Batman beating up the bad guy and pulling off the perfect technique and beating the bad guy up, and the compliant training lets the Tori imagine he is Batman, so let both of them think they are Batman and see who can get to the technique first, I'm sure it wont flow quite so prettily, but at least it will be against true resistance.
Scholastic wrestling is the standard in the US. You're totally right there. Another awesome video
So the key thing said in the intro was "Don't take things personally." So true. And so Important. This isn't about you as a person it is about the way of truth. Let's find that together.
To be honest, i was very sceptical at first. I doubted that the video would be very "fair". But i was wrong and i'm very happy for that. What really got me, was the comment about pressure testing in a safe environment. Thats the deal! I really love, that you uploaded this video! Thank you! Keep up the good work.
Thank you
Fully agree, there was no pressure test.
trapping does exist its a short window period'' for example slap/parry the lead hand and hit with a lead hand back fist or elbow or right hand its not as high percentage however but can work on occasion..
Did your interviewed "experts" know they are now offering you a living by allowing your "popularity" to grow on RUclips while thrashing your past love? Your journey is definitely not musa shugyo ...
Do you train to defend against an outside person stamping on your head when rolling? Serious question.
No, they don't. They train to fight one opponent in a ring with a defined set of rules. Intentionally taking a street fight to the ground is dangerous and irresponsible, but that is what they train.
@@davek7511 Bingo. My training in various arts did include ground game, but the instructors always said that going to the ground in a street situation is dangerous and shouldn't be a first consideration.
Actually yes. Some BJJ, especially Gracie, involves a standing opponent, defending kicks, stomps, etc. The Gracies also teach distance control and GTFO as your first line of defense. "Intentionally" going to the ground in a street fight is irrelevant. It's a likely place to end up whether you strike, grapple, slip on a banana peel, or face an angry mob of 13. Not knowing how to defend is dangerous and irresponsible.
@@Freejason33 Of course you have to say "all fights end up on the ground" to legitimize BJJ because the system is based on ground fighting and defending by closing the gap and taking the opponent to the ground. Fights don't have to end on the ground if you train technique to stay on your feet and defend from there. Of course you need to know ground fighting technique, but it should not be the main focus of a self-defense system. How many UFC fights did any of the Gracies win staying on their feet the entire match? Zero, because the entire system is based on taking the fight to ground. That is great for sport fighting but not for street fights where you can face multiple opponents or the opponent has a concealed weapon (that they can use once you have taken them to the ground and cannot see when on the ground).
@@davek7511 First, I didn't say "all fights" so nice straw man. Second, I can usually tell someone has no fight experience when they talk about it like an offense competition. No consideration for the importance of defense. All your brain can focus on is "taking" it to the ground. Even your example of the Gracie's UFC fights embarrassingly proves it. I said their first line of self defense is distance and GTFO. Ask yourself, is this a winning strategy for a UFC fight? Is the GTFO part even an option in a cage? No? Of course not. It's a self defense strategy. Key word "defense".
You don't want to be the person "on top". You want to be the person standing up. The "rules" only give one a false sense of confidence. You can't imagine shit as you train. You must train it. You train the "dangerous" stuff by putting on protective gear and training it. Like all other arts bjj offers some tools if properly taught by one who knows the street, but I don't see that out there. Purposely going to the ground is a critical tactical error in the street period. Under real stress you will react w/ muscle memory repetitive training. You can be the best bjj guy in the world. Take me down. Arm bar me, shoulder crank me, choke me, ankle lock me. Pin me. Stay on top. Demolish me. While you are tied up w/ me you are vulnerable to everyone else out there. You guys live in as much of a fantasy world as those you judge.
Weapon based systems > unarmed systems. Any weapon will trump anyone who is unarmed simple as that. All training and techniques in unarmed combat is just extra credit which only supplement the use of a weapon. Relevant weapons come in the form of blades and firearms. Programs or systems that directly address this area of violence I recommend for anyone curious would be Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Krav Maga. Systema also but suggest having PTK or KM before venturing in it as it may seem confusing to the skeptical mind. Full contact martial sports can be added in as extra credit. It seems a lot of people have it the other way around with self defense and combatives as extra credit.
Oh fuck off, you lost credibility when you said Krav Maga..
Uke is not being collaborative. If he don't follow the technique his wrist will be broken!!. The key here is that he is unbalanced before starting the kotegaeshi.
I'm praying that this person is joking.
@@stefan-t-- LOL Get on the receiving end of Kotegaeshi,then you will be praying.
@@nickyshaw2592 If one is at the receiving end of kote gaeshi in a fight, it only means that one screwed things up long time before that.
The others in comment section of the video are just simply trying to point out that Lenny Sly's uke does literally nothing to prevent getting wrist locked. He just does single telegraphed punch and then freezes waiting to be punished.
@@adamturowski3765 I don`t disagree with you in respect of what uke is or isn`t doing,I do know from training once the connection is made between Uke and Tori any technique can be turned into any other technique in a split second with slight body repositioning and Uke doesn`t always know what is coming next.Unless you have trained Aikido (Yudansha) you won`t understand what I am trying to put here which is why in demonstration video Uke becomes defensive, ukemi is important at this point,things break.
@@nickyshaw2592 I did aikido for 15 years. Kote gaeshi can easily be countered with for example uke taking his arm down and twisting the wrist out of the grip. None of the counters is shown in the video. As I mentioned before uke is simply waiting to be punished instead.
Suggest you try applying kote gaeshi on someone really resisting and you will see what I am talking about. But don't do it on an aikido practitioner as they are imprinted to cooperate rather than properly resist.
All due respect. You guys talk about a college wrestler? Well 9 times out of 10 a college "wrestler" will NOT attack him that way either.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a logical fallacy that without rules it makes a difference. If you go up against a guy who trained to injure/maim/kill and he doesn't give a damn whether he seriously injures you the fight is going to be different from what you are used to training. Even if he doesn't intend to kill you the fight is still going to be different from what you are used to training. Plus keep in mind that vs some guys like that there is no tapping out. If he gets the upper hand he is going to hurt you so when he walks away he doesn't have to worry about you coming at him.
Really nice analysis. the JKD trapping anecdote is really interesting, I always wondered if anyone was able to actually use that.
the explanation of why one only trains things that you can test and prove they are effective is something everyone should hear.
Actually, you’re right about me not being a fighter at 55 yo. I just train. I have actually competed and won a few tournaments since the eighties, as well as having sparred thousands of rounds of both boxing and kickboxing. I have trained many students over the last three decades as well. I lived and breathed Tae Kwon Do for many years. As for streetfighting, well, that was the main reason I began training in old school TKD in the first place. I had many fights out of the ring. I was a bit of a delinquent and probably had a few issues and insecurities to work out. I honestly don’t know how effective BJJ is for the street, since I have not yet trained in it. If you are saying that a street fighter can beat a legitimate martial artist, all other things being equal, then I’d say you have a lot to learn.
There's another video where Lenny really does pressure test Aikido, or whatever it was they were doing. I mean in the video you got Lenny coaching 2 guys from the side line as both guys either threw punches, or deflected them or tried to deflect them.
he was testing their hand deflections, an important drill in Tenshin style Aikido.
I’ve always seen aikido as a martial arts that focuses on fucking up your joints. I thought the practitioners were trained to fall in certain types of ways so that their arms wouldn’t get destroyed. There’s certain types of twists in these demonstrations that I know, for a fact, would break the opponents’ wrists, forearm, elbow joint, etc. I believe that Aikido is very violent in nature.
i trained in Aikido for 18 years and started Gjj (Gracie Jujitsu) a year ago ,Gjj "Humaita". For me - Gjj is the real Aikido!!! the principles of Aikido can and should be applied to Gjj according to the principles of Gjj. i actually see very little difference.
Because Aikido has developed from Jujitsu, it is only natural that the principles are very much the same. for my opinion anyway.
I will say it in a different way - If you ant to have "effective" Aikido, you have to practice Jiujitsu ;)
Thank you for your videos and your research, i am going through the same faze!
Let me tell you guys something Lenny is no joke,very skilled and dangerous person.These two guys have a better chance killing John Wick then Lenny Sly LOL.Go down to Lenny's dojo and see how well your BJJ works.
Nobody can defend themselves against someone who is out to hurt them. A fight is one person initiates the other defends how well is in the training. Someone who is out to hurt you is not coming and announcing it they are walking up behind and hurting you bat,bottle,knife, board,car, from behind and without announcing it. I could take anyone if I choose to hurt them. Honor and pride are weakness in a fight.
@@ronaldowens5025 Totally disagree any threat can be neutralized whether it be hand to hand or weapons.It all depends on the individuals training and desire to win and use unconventional warfare to achieve his goal.
@@STOCKBOY-fu5sd so I come behind you with no warning and clock you in the back of the head with a bat and that can be defended against? My point is all technic and skill while effective is only effective if you know the attack is coming. The other part is if someone wants to fight you then they will announce it with word or action. When someone wants to hurt you all bravado and school yard machoism is left behind and you can't defend a surprise knife in the kidneys. I said I can defeat anyone I never said I would do it in a way that was fair. If I'm going to hurt you it will be an assault not a fight you can't defend a surprise I just ran you over. This is the crack in all defense systems they only are effective against a known threat you may only have seconds to react to that mugger or bar fight but you can react. You can't to walking past a corner and a bat to the back of the head. Situational awareness doesn't extend to the unknown quality.
@@ronaldowens5025 Its all about situation awareness being aware of your surroundings Guns,knives,bats,etc.suprise attacks being prepared for the unexpected. Muscle memory drawing your gun,knife close quarter combat eliminate the threat with extreme violence.Were you ever in the military or just into martial arts?
@@ronaldowens5025 Try that shit with Lenny Sly and tell me how it works out for yeah.LOL
How street-effective really is an art that ties up 100% of your physical resources and mental focus on one person while you're both on the ground? Referring to BJJ of course.
An estimated 5 percent of adults say they participated in martial arts last year at least once, and a quarter of those (28 percent) say they do martial arts at every chance they get. Surprisingly, this bunch is fairly evenly split between men (52 percent) and women (48 percent). So What he is saying in this video. "I can see this working on someone with no training." 25% of 5% of the U.S. trains often. Numbers say that almost 98% have no training in combat sports. Anything will work at the right moment. Cross train to be in the moment.
Fair and respectable comments from the guys.
Maybe pressure testing should not mean "I try to do something and you try to stop me". After all, the discussion is about sefle-defense effectiveness, so it should be "You try to kick my ass and I try to prevent that, by kicking yours (one way or another)." There is to much talk about "resisting" techniques as if the
attacker knows _in advance_ what the defender will do and the attacker's purpose is to _prevent_ the execution of the technique. An attacker's purpose, "on the street" is to punch and kick my face and body. Right?
I agree with most of what is said but imagining a self defence, or military oriented context won't do the job....
The whole premise of critiquing these arts against wrestling or boxing is incorrect.
The chances of getting into a bar fight with a boxer or wrestler is totally minimal.
You won’t face a jab-cross-shoot.
You’ll face push, push, sloppy haymaker, grab, headbutt, headlock.
You need to analyse its effectiveness against that stuff...
Surely it’s better to get a door security expert to analyse it, not just some BJJ guys...
"trying to find your own truth while respecting each other" you should apply that advise to yourself and stop bashing other martial arts. My recommendation is to always start saying "this is my opinion" instead of making full statement and telling everyone like you just did that what you are saying is the full Truth. Then people will see you respectfully.
Good advice there might save some of hin support base as well.
@ well for starters if all you did was Bash them to the point that it seems like all you did then people would probably start to question your motives.
Which means less people would end up heeding your advice.
And then if you come off as a douchebag then more people will probably just say oh this guy is just a jerk and not listen to your advice good intentioned or no.
@@addisonporter1316 Well you'd get your message across, don't have to go on it with it for years continually..
@ that's my point brah!
He been going in hard ain't missed a day!
@ I would say that it seems like beating a dead horse to me except at this point the horse is decomposed so much it doesn't even resemble a animal just a pile of mud
Another great video Rokas.Keep it up mate.
It's good that your friend/acquaintance approved this video to be published which i think shows that he is willing to try and make aikido effective but he said he was pressure testing aikido and anyone with 2 eyes can see that there was no pressure testing involved and surely Lenny knew that wasn't real pressure testing?
Lenny Sly is the golden calf of aikido apologists.
I’ve said for a long time that just because he’s actually hitting and hurting his students doesn’t mean what he’s doing is any more effective.
Trading out hakama for combat pants and putting the word “tactical” in your gym’s name don’t make something effective.
I think it´s pretty telling that he thinks actually hitting someone, especially someone clearly smaller than him in the head for a demonstration is OK because they´re wearing headgear. I don´t think the guy has ever been on the receiving end of some stiff punches. He also seems to think a technique demonstration + some imagination = pressure testing. How is he pressure testing anything? The only thing that separates his videos from all the other aikido videos is that they´re wearing gloves, and he completely unnecessarily hits his students in the head. WHY ARE YOU HITTING THEM???? I don´t understand, they aren´t resisting and they´re repeating the same move that they agreed upon, does he have such fuckin shitty control that he can´t stop it? I´ve seen people throw high kicks with more control and consideration for the other person, and the other person was actually trying to punch them in the face, not repeating an agreed upon move over and over.
I think the roided look helps newbies with his street cred.To the experience combat athlete,it spells wannabee.
U can always find yourself in a place where nothing uve trained for will work but he must be doing something right because hes still bouncing and u really need to watch more than just one of his videos before u try to make a decision on what hes about, and i see that one of u knows him and it doesn't seem like hes scared of having his shit put up on here for discussion so that should tell u a lot about this man
Do you know what pressure testing bjj would look like? It would be two people ground fighting and 5 friends of one of them with shovels and base ball bats beating the shit of the opponent. Ah, those bullshit experts and their wise guy opinions.
Ha ha!
Why does everything have to be effective nowadays?
I think Aikido is a practical martial arts that you can use in everyday life. You learn fitness, confidence, discipline, respect, etc. Those are all practical things. UFC isn't the benchmark for everything.
Why not just do it because you LOVE doing it? I do karate *and* bjj because I love it. I'll never get into a street fight because I don't go to grocery stores at night, I don't hang around the red light district, I don't cut people off in traffic or push people around. And if I did, I would just grab a knife and save myself 20 years of training (if I wanted to hurt someone).
I am 1000% better than I used to be. I could easily beat my 20-year old self. But I'm no way at all interested in getting into a street fight and I am not about to throw Karate in the bin because it's been labelled ineffective by some people.